Gundam IBO

The first three episodes are great. After that it becomes an awful slog where they spend ten episodes learning to read while a space horse pulls the ship to earth.

>>143098307
Starts strong, dips down in the middle, but ends somewhat strong.

>>143098307
Yeah, first few episodes are decent and then it a giant escort mission for 20+ episodes.

The episodes towards the end are okay where people actually start getting killed and the space pirate arc is also good.

>>143098725
Okay then that's fine with me. I just don't need any teen melodrama honestly.

>>143098744
There's shitty drama with Kudelia and then after a certain incident in the last half but it's nowhere near as bad as Kiznaiver got.

There are basically no similarities between IBO and Kiznaiver that aren't also shared between all anime ever,

>>143098837
Yeah I could become more tolerant of that since there's other stuff in Gundam to focus on, but I don't wanna be scorned by Okada again.

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>>143098876
This. I don't even know what led you to compare the two. As for whether IBO is any good, Like that other guy said, it starts pretty strong, meanders from episodes 6-12, then picks the fuck back up from 13 on, with few falters until the finale. I don't regret watching it at all. Just you fucking wait 'til best girl.

>>143099986
I mean they're written by the same lady. So I assume she has a thing for re-using tropes.

>>143098307
It's good up until episode 7. Once the first long lost brother shows up, it starts getting worse and worse, and by the end it's one of the worst Gundam series.

Okada never fails to disappoint.

>>143100033
Writers do tend to have their trademarks. Now I see where you're coming from. There's definitely some sulking sprinkled throughout the show. .

>>143100317
They both feature an emotionless (read: poorly written) make lead with a childhood friend in love with him who he does not love, and some other unlikable girl Okada ships him with.

She's literally incapable of writing interesting or original characters.

>>143100212
Oh please. You know the show stays watchable after "Funeral Rites". That is, of course, unless you haven't actually watched it.

>>143100317
Yeah I just know it's a thing she's known for. I'm fine with sulking but her brand got on my nerves in Kiznaiver.

And I hear she has a habit of that so yeah just wanted to know.

>>143100386
I watched every fucking episode, and it's garbage. No, Okadas bargain Char being "mysterious and calculating" was not entertaining, neither was everyone telling Kudelia she was a genius for being able to tie her shoes ("Have a politician lobby for office? Brilliant! Sasuga maiden of the revolution!"), neither was Notchars betrayal or his childhood friend, and neither was biscuit dying or his brother hanging himself. That show was pure shit.

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>>143098730
>Space pirate arc is good.
>Cartoonishly evil captain planet reject looking villans.
>Suddenly long lost brother 5 minutes after he's mentioned.
>Mika can't hurt the gusion until he suddenly can and the fight mostly consists of gusion running away from barbatos while screaming at him and getting wacked by a katana.
>Akihiro and his graze kai are useless and accomplish basically nothing the whole arc despite him and his brother being the focus of it.

The second worst arc of the series, topped only by Dort. The only good thing about it was the retard screaming about revenge casually being one-shot in the opening 10 seconds of the fight.

>>143100603
Idunno about that second last part. It's one of the few things I remember about the show that actually got me.

>>143100879
The shitty childhood friend and bargain Char? Seriously?

>>143098837
Kudelia changes quite fast though, if we compare her to typical Gundam heroines. I mean she went from naive princess to just one tier below Empress Lacus Palpatine and the only difference is in how much power she has and how capable she is at manipulating and monopolizing the Gundam MC pilot.

All this in what? 25 episodes?

>>143101725
>she went from naive princess
She never changed. Name one intelligent, calculating or clever thing she did. Everyone clapping and sucking her metaphorical dick doesn't count, and I hope you're not stupid enough to let that fool you into thinking she's competent or smart.

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>>143101574
IBO exists for QUALITY atra, the Graze, and the Grimgerde.

>>143101725
>if we compare her to typical Gundam heroines

>>143098307
Show is okay until they meet the harem, then it becomes kinda shit and stays shit until they reach Canada.

>>143101844
Graze was nice, but there were hardly any battles. Atra was Okadas punching bag. I honestly can't comprehend her hatred of childhood friends.

>>143101844
Dianna/Kihel best gundam girls

>>143100033
Subject material is not similar enough. A better comparison for Kiznaiver would be M3, which actually covers similar topics of psychic children sharing emotions and thoughts, except with mecha.

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>>143101574
No, the better childhood friend.

At the very least, we also got her Graze Ritter.

Come on, Bandai. Hit us with an MG.

>>143101833
No one is smart in Gundam TV shows, so stop acting so elitist when all it does is tell everyone you're retarded.

It's about relativity of her own world. She's capable enough to get over her grief when practically everything in her old life abandoned her and she soldiered on. She was smart enough to realize she was a chess piece on the board of politics and utilize it to her own benefit which is far more than you can say about most Gundam heroines that were originally stupid.

If you actually think someone like Aida was smarter or more competent than Kudelia then you're just admitting your selective bias as a Tominofag and no one will ever take you seriously again.

By your logic everyone in LOGH should be clinically retarded sans Yang, Reinhardt, and Kircheis, but I sincerely doubt you'd make such a claim because in LOGH the power levels of brains and competence is universally scrapping the bottom of the barrel.

>>143101844
She wasn't typical at all, for fuck's sake she's in Turn-A. You telling me Turn-A is your typical Gundam?

>>143102173
>Carta
>Good
Shit character, shit plot point.

>>143102245
Do you hate Patrick from 00?

>>143102236
>Can't answer the question
>"Fuck you! If they say she's smart then she's smart! "
You're literally fucking retarded. You can not name a single intelligent thing she does, and you have no point. You're exactly the kind of idiot Okadas writing is aimed it.

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>>143102245
Best character, best graze, best girl.

>>143102290
>gets an entire post answering
>claims didn't get an answer

So you're shit posting when I fed it to you on a silver spoon. Thanks go back to /m/ now you degenerate Tominofag, I doubt your two digit brain cells can handle the stress of shit posting for so long you don't wanna drop it down below 10.

>>143102343
Nothing you said is an answer. I asked you to show me how the character changed, you can't point to any of her actions to support it, you're actually fucking stupid enough to think that everyone saying she's smart (despite her not actually doing anything to warrant the praise) means she's smart. And then you cry about Tomino despite no one bringing him up, true to IBOfag form. Stop embarrassing yourself.

>>143098307
>I think this decent so far for its first few episodes
The first three episodes are fine, it's all downhill from here.
>Does it turn to shit too?
Pretty much.

>>143102296
>Best character
What character? No one in that show had anything resembling character.

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>>143102269
Patrick never affected the plot and never got roped into shitty drama for shock value. He had more in common with the tykes on the White Base than Carta.

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>>143102173
There isn't even an mg barbatos. Best you can hope for is a 1/100 NG which would probably be P-Bandai at this point. After building the graze ein though I want a 1/100 of that first.

>>143102493
The tykes disarmed some bombs and tipped them off to Zeons attack. That's literally more than Kudelia ever did, now that I think about it.

>>143102404
Nothing you said can be proven correct. You can't even address it line by line.

>I asked you to show me how the character changed
>literally stated how a girl who had her entire life collapse in front of her grit her teeth and soldiered through it and went from using politics as a weapon to using herself as a chess piece
>can't point to any of her actions

You're deluding yourself Tominofag, everyone knows how you shitters post. Why don't you tell me what you think are the best Gundam shows then? Tell me which one has the heroine that is smart and capable but had to change to become what she ends up as?

You won't ever point at a non Tomino Gundam show, that's for sure. Prove me wrong if you can, though you'll just out yourself as a complete hypocrite.

But it's done, you've been shitting out generic line after generic line when you cannot even take part in the most basics of discussion, you cannot even deny the lines I posted word by word and address them.

All you can do is say "nuh uh doesn't count". Who the fuck would take you seriously? You're not even on /m/ where you can circlejerk, you're like a massive reject that has too much time on your hands and wants to troll thinking if he wastes other people's times and gets (you)s his life is fulfilled.

The only embarrassing part I've had is playing along while everyone else ignores you, which is probably more attention you've gotten than your entire family ever gave.

>>143102560
Didn't they also use newtype powers to help get Amuro out at the finale or something like that too?

>>143102594
G-Reco ended more than a year ago, dude. It's time to let go.

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>>143102296
you're right

I want to fuck Kudelia.

IN THE ASS!

>>143102493
>shock value

I get that you hate her because she gets more screen time and isn't just a meme, but what the fuck shock value is there? Everyone knew she was gonna kick the bucket, the entire series painted that theme from the very start with retards like Danji doing whatever they want and getting punished for it.

There is no shock value, it's merely consistent to how the show is spoon feeding you that being retarded and outdated will get you killed.

>>143102594
I burst into laughter reading your bait. The stuff about Kudelia playing anything resembling chess, and the Greco asshurt were my favorite parts.

>>143102655
The fuck you talking about retard? I love G-Reco way more than I did IBO, which was a mediocre snooze fest. Why does that have any bearing on whether or not I can defend a single point of criticism?

Do you think I'm as retarded as Tominofag there who is basically using copypasta lines off of /m/ since A/Z? Just where do you think that nigger isn't a shit poster given how he's just back pedaling all day and avoiding discussion?

>>143102724
I don't doubt that, you are after all incredibly delusional as per your circle jerk has proven in the past. After all you somehow believe there's a single Gundam show that isn't shitty robots for man children to begin with.

I doubt you can ever make a single real post for the rest of your life.

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>>143102464
She was extremely proud, and somewhat naive. She believed in not only herself, but her friends and associates. She turned McGillis into the man he became, and then fell in love with that man. She was a traditionalist who believed in only the most romantic depictions of the battlefield, as well as the importance of showmanship. She is also a freak for order and formation. Her squad fights in ceremonial mobile suits with swords. Because it's cool.

>>143098307
IBO is absolute garbage

>>143098307
>IBO
>Nothing but a shitfest after the first 3 episodes

>>143102871
She's an uptight rich girl who fell in love with some asshole.

Cut down on the fluff next time.

>>143102820
I can actually see you shaking and tearing up while you write this drivel.

>>143102914
You can cut down the fluff on any character and make them sound retarded or boring.

CARTA-SAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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>>143102914
They're called nuances. It's what you have to work with when a character gets maybe 10 minutes of combines screen time.

>>143102970
She's one dimensional, never changes and has no real depth. She's literally a walking archetype.

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Does Japan even care about new Gundam shows? Whenever I hear about games and shit being made, it's always UC and maybe SEED. Now they've gone back to that period with anime productions as well.

>>143102945
t. IMAX projector

I however can't relate to you at all. It takes a special level of stupid to think anyone who posts more than one sentence is fuming, but in contrast, absolutely no one would take a person who can't back up their claims seriously in the real world.

Good thing you're on /a/ right? You totally saved more time on this image board than I did.

>>143103029
Watch build fighters.

>>143103000
>poorly developed character with almost no screen time is literally just an ojousama with a love interest
>Best girl! Mai waifu!
She's hardly a character, let's not pretend she's anything special.

>>143098307
Soundtrack was frankly the best part of the show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1_e3SSE26g

>>143103014
No denying that, but you can say that to about 90% of all Gundam cast. Does that mean they are all shit too? There's only so many Amuros, Chars, and Brights given 24 minutes per episode.

>>143102763
Please do not tell lies on 4chan.

>>143103062
I'm still waiting for you to point to actual instances of Kudelia showing intelligence or cunning. Real actions she took and ideas she's had. You've done a whole lot of nothing, and said that the shitty narrative literally says she's smart so she must be. You'll get a real response when you make a real point, until then, enjoy getting laughed at.

>>143103113
I'm not looking to compare her to other Gundam characters. She, as a character, hardly has any personality. That's literally all I said. Other poorly written Gundam series existing doesn't make IBO less bad.

>>143103014

What you're saying doesn't necessarily dictate a character is shit though. I think she's shit too, but you go about it with the wrong reasons in a completely hypocritical manner.

Why not just admit it's a subjective thing? I'm sure 99% of people hate her character, which honestly is probably intentional. I mean just look at her fucking face.

>>143103068
You want "anything special"? She's the one non-corrupt, non insane officer in all of gallarghorn, and was just doing her job. The only thing she did wrong was expecting a bunch of kids to agree to duel rules.

>>143103134
Didn't she blackmail people into providing transportation from space or something?

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>>143098307
not enough best girl, sadly

>>143103113
Fucking Job John had more depth than the IBO cast.

Job, fucking, John.

I'd say even Omur Fang but I'm not that hipster.

>>143103209
They blackmailed her into providing transportation into space.

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>>143103262

>>143103187
But being unlikable doesn't make someone a bad character, being boring and having a shallow role in the story does.

>>143103209
>Murder one of their friends who isn't fighting and use the distraction to run away after trying to sneak attack and wipe them out
>Expect an honorable duel later on
You can't be stupid enough to think that made a shred of sense.

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>>143103087
It wasn't bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddwWQsGLrDQ

>>143103124
Why would I lie? G-Reco has the best TV animation sans maybe the currently running Unicorn I haven't watched it yet. My values for Gundam shows are simple, mech designs, combat choreography, animation, trailed behind by audio such as VA and music. I'm not pretentious enough like that faggot to claim otherwise. I like giant robots fighting cause it's fun, not because some stupid story has subjective semantics that caters to me.

>>143103134
>gave answers
>ignore them
>can't even debunk them

You can wait for eternity, but you won't get it and no one cares. You're a total shit poster and that's the only absolute truth in this thread.

>>143103087

This OST was GOD tier.

>>143103029
>it's always UC
Because UC is the original and main series you retard. CE gets hamfisted in after it followed by AD and AC because their the next most popular AU Gundam shows after Seed's universe.

>>143098307
There's nothing good about IBO. It starts okay and that rapidly losses steam, the fights are pretty boring, most of the middle of the series including the pirates arc and Not-Gutt's little brother are so hamfisted and pushed it comes off artificial and dare I say even "forced". The melodrama is boring, Kudelia does nothing of relevance as her character constantly flipflops between being a blatant Relana expy to Marina tier in terms of uselessness and Mika and the others are just there.

The worst part was when Mecha Ein showed up to wreck shit and everyone was revealed in the final episode after that just fine with no one dying. Carta was the epitome of being a shitty antagonist who we're supposed to be drawn to feel empathy for and the only thing of note is Chocolate Man and Not-Garma standing out in a series filled with cookiecutter generic stale characters.

Not even bothering with season 2 of this show. I'd rather rewatch AGE.

>>143103319
>sans maybe the currently running Unicorn
Unicorn is just an OVA recut, I don't think it counts as far as animation is concerned.

>>143103358
It was ok, although a bit samey.

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>>143103113
To be fair, Amuro and Char had like 3+ season of, if not direct, than some indirect character development.

>>143102236
>She was smart enough to realize she was a chess piece on the board of politics and utilize it to her own benefit which is far more than you can say about most Gundam heroines that were originally stupid.

Wow, she did the first 1/10th of Relena's character arc. That sure does mean she's a genius!

>>143103319
No, saying "she had a bad thing happen and then became a tactical genius!" is not an answer. Show me the actual actions she took that were indicative of the growth you're so desperately pretending happened. A concrete fucking answer, no talking in circles and making generalizations.

>>143103186
And I never said IBO wasn't bad. Where did you get this impression? I simply said Carta is no different than the hundreds of shitty characters that have long plagued Gundam.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, why does it matter? It's like complaining about Gundam using giant robots and how it's logically stupid compared to just using tanks/planes/etc that have superior shapes for their intended in warfare.

>>143103319
Unicorn looks better then G-Reco in terms of pure animation but Unicorn RE 0096 is just a TV adaption of the OVA. The two best looking TV series are 00 and G-Reco.

In fact 00 and G-Reco spoiled us so much that shows like AGE, GBF, and GBF Try and G-Tekketsu/IBO look positively ass after them.

>>143103385
Amuro doesn't have much screentime in Zeta and neither Amuro or Char show up in ZZ. Amuro went through PTSD and literal hell, Char just went batshit crazy then became even more crazy following in his dad's footsteps.

>>143103400
You know there's a problem when Wing has more character depth

>>143103451
>mfw people still interpret char's development as just him going nuts.

>>143103429
>I guess what I'm trying to say is, why does it matter?
Someone said she's the best character in the show. I maintain there were no good characters in the show, and that other poorly written Gundam characters don't change this.

>>143103262
I spent the whole series waiting for him to turn out to be a spy or do something really interesting.

>>143103497
Wing gets a lot of undue hate. I think the fact that it moves at the speed of sanic is partly to blame but that's also it's beauty, it really captures political turmoil in a way that was relevant to the 90s.

>>143103506
But that literally is his development. As he becomes more like his father, he becomes more deranged and unstable in turn. In Tomino's MSG novels, Char's dad literally is a genius but a mad genius. He rants, raves, has panic attacks, and is generally mentally unstable.

Its completely fitting that Char trying to fill his father's shoes echoes that with his crazy plan to nuke the Earth into a radioactive winter with Axis. Like father, like son.

>>143103540
The best character is Chocolate Man.

>>143103262
>Omur Fang
Wait, that dude had a name?
And I just realized I don't know the name of the two guys on the White Base's bridge in those suspended chairs either

>>143103551
It gets hate because its final arc turns it into a literal CCA clone, including Zechs becoming Casval/Char trying to destroy the Earth to bring about unilateral peace for Spacenoids. Fact of the matter is Wing/After Colony has always been stupidly popular in Japan, there's a reason why Sunrise is doing more stuff for it on its 20th anniversary last year while completely ignoring G.

>>143103402
I never said she was a tactical genius, you've been constantly accusing me of something that didn't happen, and you've been too scared to quote me directly because you know it would destroy the last bit of fuel you have to shit post.

I said she's relatively smart for a Gundam heroine. Please tell me what chess master move Cagalli made, or Marina, or Sayla, etc. You can't, they are even more non-factor than Kudelia.

You also can't seem to figure out what the word relativity is, because it's comparing Kudelia to the characters in the show, not to our world, because if it's our world the best she can manage is be smarter than you, someone who constantly makes a point to brag about how dumb a character in a chinese cartoon is like it empowers you doing so. The fucking Nu-male vibes practically reeks across the internet coming from your posts.

I already said it, but here I'll entertain and bite for the last time. She started out using politics as a tool in a naive way, only caring about how it would help Mars and nobody else, not even Earth as a whole. That is the mind set of a child as her age dictates.

Within 1 season she changes into a girl who understands that her ever action is scrutinized not just by the participating parties, but everyone else looking for opportunities to take a slice of the pie. She understands her role as the chess piece and instead of staying meek takes advantage of it against Choco Man, Nobliss, and Teiwaz to get every inch of ground for her campaign as she can get. That is a sign of growth, and this is indisputable.

Whether you think it's trivial has no bearing on the fact that it is change and growth. The fact is that you can take the average teenage girl and even in a 1st world country with no conflict she would on average not grow up as fast as Kudelia. She might claim to understand such things when studying then, but as anyone with real life experience knows, study and application are two different things.

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>>143103576
Fucking everyone in MSG had a name.

The random GM pilot who gets big zam'd first has a fucking name. (lt. sin/shin IIRC)

And you're thinking of Oscar Dublin and Marker Clan I believe.

>>143103571
He's not mad at all though, he's thought this out, he understands the contradictions.

It sags a bit in the middle, but overall I enjoyed it. A lot of /m/ purist types dislike IBO, but that's really only because the series has had better AU series in the past. I'd put 00 season 1 above IBO, even.

In the end it's not bad, just... decent. And there's a lot of "decent" gundam series out there.

>>143103718
>he's thought this out,

Because we never heard that one before, right?

>>143103680
Damn, still no actual citing of the show? Oh well, maybe someone will get fooled by the text wall into thinking you have a point.

>>143103718
He actually totally is. Char becomes slowly mentally unstable which is something Amuro feared happening to him after Lalah's death and the end of the One Year War. That's why he was talking about Lalah haunting him if he returned to space during Zeta in the timeskip.

Char is crazy.
And his father was crazy.

>>143103400
No one said she was a genius except you shit poster. You can quote any of my posts all you want, you won't be able to find the word genius or anything similar anywhere.

You're just taking things out of context as usual, so why does it surprise you I called you a Tominofag? Your passive aggressive hypocrisy reeks of a man child no different than the faggots that flat out lied in court and tried to get over it with "it's just a joke bro".

But at least those people had a job, so that's more respectable than you.

>>143103775
Damn, still in denial? Oh wait, you were baiting and I clearly bit despite knowing so. Glad I made your life worth living for another day.

>>143100780
Yeah, space pirates was fucking awful. The villains in the show were generally quite badly written and unlikeable, outside of Crank (killed off at the start) and Gaelio near the end. Carta was at least entertaining I guess.

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>>143103540
You've yet to prove me wrong.

>>143103773
>>143103783
No they meant that a lot more literally. You have to remember newtypes are heavily, HEAVILY influenced by Buddhist concepts. Tomino directly references several of them in the Zeta novelizations. (and then Amuro says that maybe Jesus and buddha were newtypes)

When he's afraid of seeing lalah, it's not just a flowery way of saying he's afraid to confront the past, he's genuinely afraid that on a spiritual level he might encounter her.

>>143103540
That's fine, but what you used as 'proof' of why that character isn't good doesn't really work since there are one dimensional, non changing characters that are accepted by the majority as 'good characters'.

Your posts simply give off the impression that you think that can't be the case.

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>>143103839
>Gaelio, Carta
>Villains
That would make those orphans heroes. They're not.
Just because you're not on the MC's side doesn't mean you're evil.

>>143103916
The word antagonist is too long for their lazy hands to type out, just roll with it.

>>143103827
So no concrete examples? Ok, thanks for trying.

>>143103887
What Zeta novelizations? The reason I brought MSG novels is because they have some modicum of impact on the animated canon and Origins adaption that tries to bridge the novels and anime on a middle ground.

Char's dad Deikun is without exaggeration crazy. He wanted the Earth Federation to evacuate the Earth completely on his orders. Char did it in a different way but he's the same as his dad, their both cut from the same cloth so to speak and fairly monomaniacal.

>>143103785
>I didn't use the exact word you used in your hyperbole so nothing you say is relevant!

You basically suggested Kudelia was one step away from ruling the god damn earth sphere and beyond.

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>>143098744
Then don't watch Gundam. Period.

>>143103943
You wouldn't know concrete if it hit you in the face.

>>143103956
>monomaniacal
*meglomanical

>>143103840
You having shit taste in waifus doesn't make her a good character.

>>143103899
But I didn't bring up any other shows or characters, I just talked about her and how she hardly has characterization, and even that characterization is nothing more than an archetype.

>>143103956
Are the Gundam novels and manga worth reading? How many exist?

>>143103956
There are zeta novels writen by Tomino, they're pretty dense with backstory.

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>>143103973
>>143098725
>starts strong
Too strong of a claim, it starts "okay".
>dips down the middle
Understatement, its pretty boring with little happening because Okada's attempt at world building is clumsy and badly crafted when she tries her hand at it.
>ends somewhat strong
The ending was awful.

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>>143103916
Daily prayer for Gaelio's Counterattack.

Choco has so much to answer for. Somebody needs to bring justice and chivalry back to this orphan eat orphan world.

>>143103962
No I didn't. One step and one tier are different, by magnitudes. But the brainless ape that is you decided to interpret it differently.

Or, are you somehow suggesting that Lacus is well written and a believable princess turned ruler? Are you suggesting that you're too retarded to see how I was making fun of how Lacus was poorly written but simply due to the convenient advantages and writing she ended up in a far more comfier spot than Kudelia?

Cause maybe I should have accounted for that. Maybe you're just an ESL. I can't read minds, I don't know how many brain cells you have.

Please take your pick, which kind of retard are you?

>>143104072
MSG novels are only worth reading because their originally intended to change the roots of the story and have a darker closing with a more adult narrative aimed at older fans until the novels got shitcanned when MSG wasn't canceled and instead limited to how many episodes it had left by Sunrise back when it was airing. Origin is interesting but the rest of the novels aren't worth shit.

>>143098307
only get good at episode 7 or 8 everything else was shit

>>143104141
Oh, so it was made when they didn't know how the TV animes future would go? How many exactly should I read?

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>>143103319
Because you're going on a tirade against /m/, Tominofags, and spending way too much energy defending what is subjectively the single worst Gundam TV anime made to date. The only other person I've seen do this as passionately as you do is that one G-Reco hating IBO fan.

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Metal Gundam Solid was alright

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Gaelio deserves revenge.

>>143104211
>Metal Gundam Solid
That was Setsuna, faggot.

>>143104033
>But I didn't bring up any other shows or characters, I just talked about her and how she hardly has characterization, and even that characterization is nothing more than an archetype.

That has no bearing on what I said. I'm simply saying the way you compared characters is flawed. Just because you didn't bring in another character from another show does not mean your argument exists in a vacuum, that only within IBO, the argument that a character being one dimensional and unchanging suddenly magically becomes proof that a character is shit.

What is so hard to understand? I'm just saying stop saying shit that doesn't even matter and focus on the things that do.

>>143104211
STRANDING!

>>143098307
It's good. Most haters are from /m/. Though it gets somewhat slow near the middle.

>>143098307
>So I really dislike Kiznaiver for being super melo-dramatic
Then I don't understand how you will like IBO after the Pirate arc.

>>143104206
You mean you?

>>143103956
Also no, Zeon Deikun called for the evacuation of earth because that's the belief that he found himself at. Contolism is pretty much just an ecological and political argument mixed together. Colonies should be free and earth should be left to heal.

Char takes that because his experience suggests to him that it's also the right way, he's seen the deserts encroaching on earth, he's seen the oppression of the spacenoids under the Earth Federation's apathetic rule. And the only way he can see to end it is to make sure that everyone moves to space and can take the first step to becoming newtypes.

Amuro doesn't even disagree with the fact that this has to happen, but Amuro (being the one who probably achieved Satori completely) is more patient, more complete. (look up what A bao a qu is)

>>143104241
>That has no bearing on what I said.
Yes it does, because you said "By that standards, these other characters are..." when I'm talking about her (lack of) merits as a character and not anyone elses.

IBO is good.

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>>143104211

>>143104206
>The only other person I've see
>Tripfag mattering ever

Fuck off.

>>143104295
You're wrong. From the verbal tics to the way that Deikun quite literally froths when he gets into his rages, he's depicted repeatedly as being unstable and imbalanced. He's a bipolar nigh schizophrenic individual who isn't to be trusted or venerated.

And Amuro never agrees with Char's beliefs or that of his father's views at all.

>>143104117
You sound really mad because someone doesn't think your Chinese cartoon character is well developed and shows intelligence. And no, you're the one with this scale in your own head that you're expecting everyone to abide by despite never defining.

Lacus is not a well written character, neither is Kudelia.

>>143104201
The original gundam novels are quite interesting, Tomino does some really weird shit, and the translations I have (The frederik Schdot ones) show their age, I think there's a more recent one based on his though which doesn't have Sha in his Zak and Kishiria Zabi. They differ from the original script for the anime in a lot of ways, but you can see the bits that he thought were worth keeping around.

>>143104331
Sup Bizarro.

You know what I wouldnt mind for season 2


A Calamity War flashback

I mean if the story does go full METAL GEAR with the rise of PMCs and shit cool.

>>143104295
>Zeon Deikun calls for the evacuation of the Earth on his word and will because he thinks everyone should agree with his world view
The funniest part is Degwin might've usurped his position by having him assassinated but for all intents and purposes all the shit Ghiren and Degwin did are in line with what a living Deikun would've done if he was in charge of Zeon during the OYW.

He's crazy.
Char is crazy too.

Spacenoids are disgusting.

>>143104322
So I can't compare what you said about her with other characters, yet I'm supposed to accept those criteria for only her?

That's like failing a custom made test for one person. Who cares? In the end you basically circle back to my original point. Why does it matter? You think she's shit (as do I), but don't wanna actually discuss about it in any meaningful way, but also want to press on it in a thread with others.

That's kinda messed up.

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>>143104033
You being determined to hate the show doesn't make her a bad character.
At the end of the day, she fought for what she believed in, and she tried her best. Also, I really liked her goofy fox-hair.
And her death was probably the best in the show.

>>143104467
It makes me laugh when people consider shit like Valvrave or Aldnoah.zero unironically good but shit on this Gundam when this is way better and good.

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I liked the scenes where Gut fucking shot the knights in there little stance and when Mika went murderhobo on the guy standing outside his mobile suit

>>143104451
You sound really mad because you're starting to answer in more than one sentence but still being really passive aggressive about it.

I never said either was well written, this is the 4th time I post the word 'relativity' in hopes that you add this to your meager vocabulary.

>And no, you're the one with this scale in your own head that you're expecting everyone to abide by despite never defining.

That's the most hypocritical claim I've seen in half a decade. As expected of someone who never bothers to defend himself and only keeps on repeating himself.

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>Orga never fucked the lonely office lady
Confirmed for gay.

>>143104451
Oh so they're rewrites and not supplementary entirely? Cool. No worries on the translations, I know moon. Looking forward to them, thanks.

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>>143104548
>IBO
>way better than VVV and AZ

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>>143104548
>people consider shit like Valvrave or Aldnoah.zero unironically good

>>143102871
Actually the Graze Ritter was designed to be classy like that not due to Carta's request but because it was literally made for ceramonial events and decorative purposes and not standard combat. Carta was placed in a military division basically made up just for her that was supposed to be just for show and not ever see actual combat. Her entire unit was decorative and only trotted out for ceremonial purposes in order to keep the last official heir of a seven star family safe.

The encounter with Tekkadan was the first time her unit had ever been involved in a battle and was specifically Carta's first real MS battle.

>>143104513
>So I can't compare what you said about her with other characters,
Unless I say those characters are good despite the same criticisms applying? No.

>>143104604
She turned out to be an even bigger bitch than Kudelia. Hope she dies in season two.

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IBO is shit compared to UC Gundam

Its alright when compared to AU Gundam


Argument over

>>143104433
>And Amuro never agrees with Char's beliefs or that of his father's views at all.

Except the bit where in the last scene in CCA he says "we just have to be patient!" after char lashes out about how this is the only way

And Deikun is incredibly lucid. he's very philosophical but all he did was say "this is what should happen" he never tried to force it other than declaring independence.

>>143104515
>At the end of the day, I have shit taste in waifus and think melodramatic screaming about unrequited love makes for powerful characterization
Good for you.

>>143104621
can't you fucking read? /a/ got retards

>>143104667
this

>>143104595
>If I say "relatively" I don't have to defend my ideas
You're really, really stupid.

>>143104605
Oh yeah they're totally fucking different.

>>143104595
If you say so chief. I'm not even the guy who you were talking to at first. You just think that Kudelia being more intelligent than people who literally don't know how to read makes her intelligent.

>>143104686
Patience is something that Deikun or Casval never believed in. The entire thematic was they wanted to rush mankind into its evolution as Newtypes while Amuro believed everything takes its own time and course.

That's not Amuro agreeing with them at all.

And Deikun's lucidity is repeatedly broken by him being and acting insane. Crazy runs in the family.

>>143104744
Sweet, thanks for the info, senpai.

Are they clearly titled so I know where to stop reading them?

>>143104605
>>143104744
oh and check these out

https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E6%A9%9F%E5%8B%95%E6%88%A6%E5%A3%ABZ-%E3%82%BC%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BF-%E3%82%AC%E3%83%B3%E3%83%80%E3%83%A0%E3%80%88%E7%AC%AC1%E9%83%A8%E3%80%89%E3%82%AB%E3%83%9F%E3%83%BC%E3%83%A6%E3%83%BB%E3%83%93%E3%83%80%E3%83%B3-%E8%A7%92%E5%B7%9D%E6%96%87%E5%BA%AB%E2%80%95%E3%82%B9%E3%83%8B%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%E6%96%87%E5%BA%AB-%E7%94%B1%E6%82%A0%E5%AD%A3/dp/4044101043

They're interesting.

>>143104644
I knew most of this. She may have been best girl, but she was far from best pilot.

Man, these threads are more entertaining than G Gundam.

>>143104847
The MSG novels? they're just 3 separate volumes IIRC.

>>143104791
I don't remember Deikun's lucidity snapping, origin did that yes, but I don't recall it referenced in either the anime or the novels. But it's been a long time since I read them so maybe you're right as far as they go, but they're a totally different thing anyway.

Char was patient with the Federation, he gave them years and years to do -anything-

But they didn't. They didn't do a single thing. If anything they made it worse. Amuro knows everything Char says is right, but he doesn't believe in Char's methods. This is something that was around even in MSG, at the end Sayla telling them to stop fighting because they're the same, etc.

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>>143104515
You mean most pathetic death. After failing to stop Tekkadan twice with superior numbers she tries for an honorable duel against a group of mercinaries who have long since learned gjallahorn's promises are full of shit. Then barbatos alone smacks her around in a one side sided beatdown while she screams about how unfair it all is and then dies under the delusion that she's talking to her obsession who had been using her.

>>143104847
>>143105026

I find Gundam light novels "Edgy?"

They just have all these deaths and terrible shit happening more than usual Gundam.

>>143105026
So three originals and then the Zeta novel?

>>143105026
Deikun is never shown in the MSG anime, only referenced and spoken about in past tense most of the time.

>Char was patient with the Federation.
No he wasn't.
>Amuro knows everything Char says is right.
No, he doesn't. He stands against Char's methods, beliefs, and views completely. And by proxy that puts him against Deikun's way as well.

>>143105052
I don't know if I can call anything where someone gives her lover some of her pubes as a good luck charm edgy.

Just... kinda weird. In a dark way, but I'd go with dark, the novels are definitely a lot darker.

>>143105052
>>143105096

Or you know that rape scene in the 08th MS Team novel.

>>143105069
Zeta is 5 novels IIRC.

>>143105090
and no one says he was bonkers, except maybe EF officials who can't exactly be trusted to be impartial.

And I really have no idea where you're getting this from, Amuro acknowledges all the tihngs char says but then just goes on to say "you just need to have faith that people CAN be good if left to their own devices" this is the point of difference between them.

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>>143105042

Holy shit


That was fucking brutal.

>>143105180
He's talked about being crazy, erratic, strange, and weird in the novels. He's shown being exactly that in the Origin manga and OVA series as a result.

>Amuro acknowledges all the things Char says
He acknowledges that humanity has to change. He completely disagrees with Char's belief that Char can jumpstart it or his method to doing it in the first place.

>>143105202
The heroes of the revolution ladies and gentleman

>>143105042
Reminder that Gjallarhorn the incompetent version of Oz in literally every way.

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>>143105202
Its even funnier when you find out the context behind that scene.

>>143105233
Origin is nonsense though.

There's a major difference between being a bit weird as most philosophers are to what he is shown to be in origin.

And yes, he does, we're saying the same thing here now.

I mean, CCA literally ends with Amuro finally completely understanding Char.

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I hope season 2 just reinforces the Gundam version of Guts even more

>>143105337
>Origin is nonsense though.
No, it bridges the gap and difference between the novels and the TV series as a middle ground.

>There's a major difference between being a bit weird
Deikun is more then a "bit" weird. He's a lunatic.
>CCA literally ends with Amuro finally completely understanding Char.
He understands that Char is crazy, that doesn't mean he agrees with Char's radical views or belief or the extinction attempt he made on Earthnoids.

>>143105366
IBO sucks ass.

>>143105259
>Being stupid enough to get out of your cockpit in front of an enemy force and expecting them to fight by your rules.
>Yelling indignantly at an approaching enemy ms instead of climbing back into the cockpit.

>>143105042
I didn't say coolest death. It was great, partially because it was so pathetic. A train full of kids watch as some psycho beats the shit out of 3 suits on his own, splattering one pilot, crushing the other, and fatally wounding the third, so these kids can feel like they've avenged their dead accountant, and sneak into Canada.

>>143105382
>He understands that Char is crazy, that doesn't mean he agrees with Char's radical views or belief or the extinction attempt he made on Earthnoids.

The conversation with Lalah. It basically ends as they "explode" or whatever newtype magic happens as Amuro putting the last piece of the puzzle together in his head.

I always felt like Char understood Amuro, but Amuro struggled to understand Char in return, and at that moment they finally both understood the other.

>No, it bridges the gap and difference between the novels and the TV series as a middle ground.

They're totally incompatible, there's backstory that you can take at best, and Origin fucks up a lot of that quite heavily.

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>>143105366
Hopefully we'll get to see it actually doing something on screen.

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>>143105307
God, the animators must've hated her. She looked like shit half the time.

>>143105486
>The conversation with Lalah
Which part? The part that Char is trying to genocide Earthnoids or the fact that Amuro accurately shows to the viewers why he was afraid of going back to space with the example of Char's insanity?

>Char understood Amuro
I don't think he ever understood Amuro, which is why he constantly tried to get Amuro to join him in the first place.
>Amuro struggled to understand Char in turn.
Not seeing it.
>They're totally incompatible.
You aren't comprehending. I said its a middleground, it bridges the two extremes. The MSG novels are ultimately non canon, Origin exists as semi canon by virtue of being animated, Sunrise puts the ultimate officiality on animated works trumping even their source materials.

In this case, Origin takes precedence over MSG novels despite being influenced by them. And even then, Deikun is never portrayed as a sane or normal individual mentally speaking.

>>143105180
Jesus fuck that's a lot. So 8 novels total?

All this talk about the books, I need to know if this is the book in question https://www.amazon.com/Mobile-Suit-Gundam-Escalation-Confrontation/dp/1611720052/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1466454539&sr=8-1&keywords=Gundam+novel

I also see 3 other MSG novels but no translated copies on amazon. Is the one I linked just a compilation of the 3 others or something?

>>143105448
>Psycho
Mika was a shit character, but he was 100% in the right there. The adults pretending he shouldn't have done that were fucking retarded.

>>143105003
This.

Reading these threads is the most fun I've had with Gundam in almost 20 years.

>>143098307
Starts off well enough then its kinda shit until they get to Canada.

>>143105588
>I don't think he ever understood Amuro, which is why he constantly tried to get Amuro to join him in the first place.

He also kept getting Amuro to fight him and was dumbfounded when Amuro tried to kill him in person at the colony and got pissy when Amuro kept trying to break away during their fight at the end.

Char couldn't understand Amuro had moved on from their petty rivalry and wasn't interested in proving who was the better of the two like he was.

>>143105778
Exactly. Char was living in the past, deluding himself about his skill as a pilot, and living with an outdated belief that Amuro thought and felt the same way as him.

Everything about the two are the polar opposite of one another. Amuro is a moderate, Char is a radical. Amuro prefers older women, Char prefers younger ones. Amuro looks to the future, Char stares at the past. Amuro has no delusions of grandeur or thinks despite his own special status as a Newtype or famous war hero that he is the right to judge others or lead humanity into space, Char however does.

Amuro understood what Char was and what Char wanted. Char never had the same empathy with Amuro.

Its poetic.

>>143105612
Yes that's a compilation of the 3 novels. That's the modern reprint which I think uses the more modern romanizations. So no Zaks (hopefully)

>>143105610
It's not like they're 600 page volumes.

>>143105588
If you want to take your character interpretations from a mix of various different authors that's fine I suppose. But I'm not going to take Yasuo's ideas on board. So we're gonna differ pretty irrecoverably in terms of interpretation on that front.

And about the understanding. Look how scared Char is about Amuro. And look up, as I said, A bao a qu, and satori. Char is an engma, part of the puzzle is missing, and then right at the end Amuro pieces it together finally. Amuro understands char, and char lets human warmth into him.

>>143105901
Thank you. I'm going to order this now then so I can see what the fuck yall are talking about when it comes to Zeon Zum Daikun being crazy.

>>143105669
Dishonourable as fuck.

>>143105865
I don't think Char believes that he has any right to do what he does, he feels that it's necessary. That it's the only way.

>>143098307
i like it just to shitpost on /m/

>>143103385
>Ein had zero named kills

>>143106006
But sneak attacking them and killing their non MS pilot friend as a diversion was? Carta a shit.

>>143106024
He really does actually. The entirety of CCA is evidence of that.

>>143106038
To be fair he killed everyone he fought in the second to last episode before Okada handwaved it to say they were fine and show them all battered but relatively uninjured like the hack she is.

>>143106059
What? Since when is just standing there a sneak attack. This isn't cucumber-on-cat warfare.

>>143098307
Yes and it is a level of boring unimaginable

>>143106097
>He really does actually. The entirety of CCA is evidence of that.

I really disagree, I feel like it's more his final desperate move. I watched it recently and I still definitely feel like it was more Char feeling like there was no chance that it would happen without someone forcing it. He felt like he had the right to judge the Federation government, that I'll go with, but I think any spacenoid has that right.

>>143106209
>any Spacenoid has that right.
t. Char Aznable

>>143104662
Sadly I have to agree with this, in the end she made Kudelia look like a competent and cool headed woman, what was the point of her character again?

>>143106242
>government literally goes "well they're not near earth so it's not really our problem what happens to them"
>citizens don't have the right to judge them

t. Earth Elite.

>>143106151
Did you miss their battle before the train?

>>143106312
>we have the right to commit mass genocide
>we have the right to somehow act like humanity's arbitrators
Delusional retarded bullshit. Which is totally inline with the nonsense the Zabis and Deikun believed about all Earthnoids being super rich as well.

Fucking retarded.

>>143106360
The people in the colonies were mostly deported from earth by force. Just because you're a privileged group doesn't mean you're necessarily "rich"

>family was forced to live in orbit
>earth government never gave much of a fuck what it's like up here, resources went from space to earth
>when shit gets fucked by wars they just glue some shit together and say it's a temporary measure until it stops being temporary.

>>143106358
Not him, but Carta does a surprise drop during the battle and then doesn't capitalize on it in favor of posing. She then gets frustrated and breaks away from Mika to attack what she accurately assumed was Tekkadan's commander sitting out in the open in a tiny vehicle.

It was basically her getting frustrated and throwing a tantrum, but it wasn't sneaky or even dishonorable in light of the fact that it was a battlefield and the enemy commander was standing around exposed.

>>143104667
>Its alright when compared to AU Gundam
Nope

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>>143106358
Having trouble remembering past grandstanding, and bisketto. give me a refresher.

>>143106519
>The people in the colonies were mostly deported from Earth by force.
No they weren't. And the average Spacenoid is better off economically and socially then the average Earthnoid.
>privileged group
Majority of Earthnoids aren't privileged because its a made up artificial caste system invented by Deikun and further exaggerated by the Zabis and Char. More Earthnoids live in poverty and scrapping a living from the Earth then the average Spacenoid does in their hermaetically sealed artificially maintained sides and colonies with their perfect weather and climate controls.

Stop making things up.

>>143104667
Nah, AGE is vastly more entertaining and more coherent story and character wise then IBO ever was.

>>143106519
Side seven continued its construction after the war and by F91 brand new "Frontier Colonies" have been built and populated even further out in orbit.

The EF can't just snap its fingers and make a new colony instantly. The main issue is they created a couple of stop gap solutions and failed to provide adequate support to them, not that they stopped building new colonies.

>>143106059
But she didn't sneak in, if the enemy commander suddenly appeared mounted in a donkey screaming, everyone close by will immediately start shooting at him, it was Orga fault

>>143106648
>No they weren't.

"The people who had the privilege of exempting themselves from the space colony settlement law said that since humans were animals born on Earth, they shouldn't separate themselves from the land, and thus escaped emigration and remained on Earth.

As the colony settlement continued and more than half the population came to live in space, the pollution of Earth was halted and nature began to show signs of recovery. To the people who wanted to remain on Earth, this became proof of their own justification."

People who generally don't give a shit about Gundam like it regardless of quality.

>>143106550
>Not him, but Carta does a surprise drop during the battle and then doesn't capitalize on it in favor of posing
It's not their fault she sucks at sneak attacks, and she also tried the tacticool assault on the bungalows. She deserved absolutely no honor or respect after what she tried.

>she accurately assumed was Tekkadan's commander sitting out in the open in a tiny vehicle.
You mean the unarmed guy who she killed and then ran away from battle with instead of capturing or continuing to fight? She tried to kill their leader, killed their friend, and then expect a fair and clean respectful fight when she realized she couldn't beat them at guerrilla warfare. You have to be stupider than she is to think that they'd accept her terms.

>It was basically her getting frustrated and throwing a tantrum
Why would you agree to an honorable duel to someone who throws tantrums and does the equivalent of flipping the table when they lose at a board game?

>>143106608
You're better off forgetting this show exists.

>>143106724
>This character fallible statement I believe which has been proven consistently wrong from examples in the meta series is right regardless of how often the narration proves it incorrect.

You're still wrong.

>>143106712
>But she didn't sneak in,
Watch the episode again.

>>143104662
All she did was fail to be a voice of reason.
But those kids were retards.

>>143106742
I said I'm not him and I don't expect them to honor a duel. I'm actually the guy above who called her death pathetic.

Just pointing out that the battle before that wasn't a sneak attack.

>>143106841
>Just pointing out that the battle before that wasn't a sneak attack.
She tried to get the drop on them, but she failed. She also sent the secret squad in to get the NTR villain politician using tacticool smoke grenades and storm tactics.

>>143106773
Okay, entertainment bible 2 then.


The Earth Invasion Operation

Having been unable to secure victory in the previous conference, the Zeon forces decided to carry out a direct attack on Earth. Securing military resources was also a factor in this decision.

The creation of the Earth Attack Force was accomplished by reorganizing and reinforcing the 1st Mobile Infantry Division of Rear Admiral Kycilia Zabi's Mobile Assault Force. Captain Garma Zabi was appointed as its commander. However, this force had not yet recovered from the losses of the Battle of Loum, and it was inadequate in terms of fighting strength.

Of the units incorporated into the Earth Attack Force, many were made up of people from other Sides who had secretly entered Zeon just before the outbreak of war. The majority of them had been forced by the Federation government to emigrate to the colonies, and were thus strongly hostile towards the Federation. Before the war, the Principality of Zeon began contacting these people either directly or via Side 6, and arranged for them to escape to the Principality.

Most people were forced to emigrate, some were voluntary settlers (though the only confirmedish one I know is Johnny Ridden's grandparents), but they're the minority.

>>143106724
And yet most of what we see of earth is:
>Impoverished third world villages
>A cluttered and overcrowded hong kong
>Vast stretches of barren wasteland
>Slums

>>143106773
Also it's not a fallible statement, it's a quote from the Zeta novels.

>>143106871
>She was trying to make some sort of ridiculous grand entrance rather than a surprise attack.

>>143106998
Nah, they were definitely trying to get the drop on them.

>>143106998
War needs more of this.

>>143106998
Didn't mean to greentext that.

>>143106964
The faction of people living on Earth, or Earthmen, were investing huge sums in rebuilding old cities in the name of terrestrial reconstruction. This merely meant that humanity was once again polluting the surface with earthworks.

As a result, the reconstruction of the colonies damaged in the war was left to the spacenoids who lived in them. At first glance, this might seem like a recognition of spacenoid autonomy, but it was merely neglect. Absolutely no economic assistance was provided.

On the political front, a postwar family registration system was announced that would bring all the spacenoids living in the colonies under the supervision of the Earth Federation government. All of humanity would be numbered, and measures could be taken in advance to control independence movements like the Principality of Zeon. This was a regressive phenomenon that went against the trend of the era.

A movement to reject the family registration system arose in the colonies of Side 1, and the Earth Federation government regarded this as rebellious conduct. This activity was to be the beginning of the anti-Earth Federation government organization known as the AEUG.

>>143106724
>>143106519
Bullshit. Inferiority of Spacenoids to Earthnoids was a made up cultural view by crazies like the Zabis and Deikun. Side 3 was even autonomous outside of a EFF garrison to do its own thing internally and externally when it came to politics and was all but independent in name nearly twenty years before the One Year War.

Side 3 trying to get the other colonies in the rest of the Sides to go against the Federation/Earth is equivalent to a rebellious child snapping at its parent and biting the hand that feeds it.

When demanded to evacuate the Earth and cede all control over the Sides aligned to and under its dominion, and facing frequent terrorist attacks and paramilitary aggression a year or so before the OYW's official outbreak with hostilities; the Fedeation/Earth decides to stop supplying Side 3 with food and other logistical support.

>>143106939
Like massacring those colonies who opposed them?

>Majority of them forced by the Federation government to emigrate to the colonies.
Nope. In fact the main reason was after the transition from the Republic of Zeon to the Principality of Zeon in the wake of Deikun's untimely "death" and monarchy demanding complete cessation of all colonies and sides to their political control.

Also you know what the immediate targets were when Zeon declares war on the Earth? Sides 1, 2, and 4. Which mainly consisted of light Federation forces yet for some reason Side 3 desired to wipe out the civilian population of Spacenoids as well in the name of "liberty" from Earthnoid tyranny.

Spacenoids are retarded.

>>143106976
Not canon.

>>143107031
>Show up from above on re-entry sleds having dropped from a ship in orbit.
>Using their showy ceramonial Graze Ritter rather than the standard ground type the other members already attacking are using.
>Instead of using this surprise to attack, they land, stand in formation, and pose while Carta announces their entrance to the battlefield.

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>>143107111
>Inferiority of Spacenoids to Earthnoids was a made up cultural view by crazies like the Zabis and Deikun.
And what exactly is your source for this claim? That retarded feddiewank screencap?

>>143106976
>it's a quote from the Zeta novel.
So it doesn't mean jackshit then, good to know.

>>143107046
Majority of Earthnoids were more imporvished, and worse off to wear then the average Spacenoid and the Earth still had a large population the entirety of the Sides put together even as far as Victory's era.

>>143107159
>Feddiewank screencap
Dumb tripfag.

>>143107111
You're literally saying "bandai and Tomino are wrong, I am right" now.

>>143107159
>Spacenoids didn't do NUFFIN WRONG

>>143107220
Bandai doesn't have shit to do with Gundam's lore or story. And Tomino's novels aren't canon, period.

>>143107149
They tried and immediately failed. They also still tried the sneak attack on NTRman. I don't know why you think she wasn't going to the surprise attack. She's just really incompetent and really fucking stupid.

>>143107242
>bandai has nothing to do with Gundam's story
>tomino's word means nothing

This is fucking next level feddie denial.

>>143107220
This isn't Star Wars. Tomino didn't create Gundam, Tomino didn't even write the majority of it and there are several other writers and executive whose jobs are to supervise how the background and settings work in UC.

His novels have never been canon.
Official? Yes.
Canon? No.

And nothing you're claiming directly corresponds from the actual animated material. We see often that the Earth is filled with poor people, downtrodden, and neglected citzens of the Earth who make up the vast majority of the Earth's population and represent its primary demographic.

They are not somehow magically socially a higher caste or ranking then the average Spacenoid. Its a made up belief by Deikun and his flunkies who passed it on to the Zabi family who used it to flout their supremacist beliefs about Spacenoid superiority.

>>143107304
Bandai owns Sunrise, Sunrise does the writing, retard shitposter.

>>143107304
Sunrise ! = Bandai, faggot kun.

>>143107267
Se seemed to know what she was doing in orbit. Maybe Carta's just not cut out for mobile suit skirmishes.

>>143107327
Were Kai and rest of the White Base crew Deikunists? They bullied Amuro for belonging to elites since he was born on Earth.

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>>143102689

Oh Kudelia Oh Himestein of the tight midriff, the flowing hime cut and the improbable sports bra and shorts combination for a rich girl.

>>143107304
You do know multiple script and screenplay writers in Sunrise since the company's inception operate a collective pseudo name that does the majority of writing and creation for their Gundam shows right?

>>143107444
Seemed to know? Laughing haughtily and using refined speech is all it took to fool you?

>>143098307
No, if you're familiar with Okada style you'll notice that IBO is completely different from the kind of stuff she usually does. She didn't have much creative control here.

>>143107327
And every, single, thing they put out that talks about this says "forced migrations, earth is the focus of all economic activity, spacenoids are second class citizens"

I don't even know how to talk to someone that's denying this. They were not made to go live in metal cylinders by law and force. This makes them privileged. Even if they happen to be just as poor. The political clout in the earth sphere benefits them even slightly at the expense of space.

>>143107529
She got rid of that particle cloud pretty quickly.

>>143107494
Yes? You're acting like Bandai don't have the final say if they want it, they own the damn thing.

Tomino as the original creator gets to lay out whatever he wants to, and Bandai as the owner get to lay out what they want. Both of them seem to agree that the earth elite is a thing. Only people that seem to want to make gundam some cut and dry good vs evil thing seem to disagree,

>>143098307
Why would you think they would let Okada do whatever she wants for a Gundam series? Nagai was mostly in charge for this one.

Overall it's still shit though.

>>143107556
Spacenoids are not any more mistreated then the average Earthnoid.

>>143107636
I never said Bandai doesn't have oversight. I said that Sunrise does the actual animation, writing, and story plotting. MSVs more then ever exist because Bandai wants extra suit variations to peddle out more gunpla and toys and they can veto things the writers want to do but they do not actually have direct involvement in the shows outside of that.

Tomino is not the original creator.
He did not write MSG.
He did not write Zeta.
He did not write ZZ.

He is the original director, Sunrise is the original creator.

>>143104260
>Most haters are from /m/.
Pretty much. I love how they like to pretend that IBO is a failure when most people outside of their containment board liked it, both in the west and Japan. Most beloved Gundam show since GBF.

>>143107636
Tomino only gets to do what he wants in shows he directs with Turn A and G-Reco as an example. He doesn't have any control over any that Sunrise wants to do independent of him. He doesn't own Gundam, Sunrise does, period.

That simple.

>>143107556
Post examples that contradict the evidence of Earthnoids being just as badly off and mistreated as Spacenoids.

>>143107816
Check 2ch, you fucking idiot.

>>143107816
No need to reply to yourself.

I dont understand how this Gundam has such a shit storm whenever its talked about G-Reco hurt the gundam fan base that bad?

>>143107933
>2ch AOTY 2015
>12th IBO
Yeah, they sure hated it! Fucking retard, kill yourself.

>>143108016
Tominofags are still butthurt because G-Reco was a trainwreck.

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>>143107816
>I love how they like to pretend that IBO is a failure when most people outside of their containment board liked it, both in the west and Japan. Most beloved Gundam show since GBF.
Is that why it has the lowest Daytime ratings in the franchise? Is that why its dropped harder in sales than G-Reco the supposed failure? But sure because MAL and ANN liked it it means something

>>143108020
>I didn't actually read a single 2ch thread
Stop embarrassing yourself

>>143108080
3rd highest opening in America land though.

>>143108016
It's just /a/. /m/ and most mecha communities thought it was shit it was largely casuals who liked it

>>143108087
Yeah, and the AOTY poll was rigged, right?

>>143108142

So basically IBO is just Gundam Wing Mk. 2?

>>143108125
>America land
>Toonami
>relevant

This is suppose to mean something?

>>143107775
You know what, fine, I'll go along with what you're saying just for the start of this point.

so how do you deal with the fact that Hoshiyama and Matsuzaki were principal scriptwriters and key on gundam century which is one of the things that lays out tons of this stuff?

Now ignoring you're being moronic and saying the original creator wasn't the original creator, gundam was not made by committee, Tomino wrote a proposal for sunrise. Mark Simmons had a copy of the original proposal.

http://gundam.aeug.org/archives/2001/04/0341.html

There are tons of stories about Tomino's early ideas. I don't even have the ability to conceptualise how you can somehow divorce Tomino from the process when no one else does.

>>143108125
Wow it's fucking nothing.
Gunpla numbers would be better.

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>>143108177
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVcCB4fze94
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP9PASx3bgA
>One of the greatest anime sagas of all time

>>143108162
>The poll I think is accurate matters
>Not every single thread shitting on it non-stop
You can't read moon, you've never been to 2ch, stop pretending.

>>143108184
Dunno. Why do BD sales mater in an economy that's being taken over by streaming providers?

>>143107372

You're sort of right. They're semi-autonomous within the framework of Bandai Visual and allowed to produce their own content. They were producers on some things like Miss Hokusai and Short Peace for example. Bandai Namco Pictures is the studio that Bandai Visual has 100% control of. I could try to explain the framework of Bandai Namco group but it's so labyrinthine that the best I can do is:

Bandai Namco Holdings (The capital company listed on the TSE and which the shareholders belong too)

Bandai (The original toy company that owns the rights to things like One Piece, DBZ, Precure, Super Sentai, Kamen Rider, Gundam, Macross etc.)

Banpresto (A subsidiary of Bandai that handles premium priced products)

Bandai Visual (The company that manages all the Bandai Groups animation and music projects as well as handles distribution)

Lantis (Bandai Visual's in house music production studio and distributor that owns the rights to the likes of Love Live, iDOLM@STER Million Live, iDOLM@STER SideM, iDOLish7 as well as various music acts like u's, Aqours, Oldcodex, JAM Project, Ayane Sakura, Chihara Minori, Kamiya Hiroshi etc)

Sunrise (A partial subsidiary studio of Bandai Visual)

Actas (A 100% subsidiary studio of Bandai Visual)

BN Pictures (A 100% subsidiary studio of Bandai Visual)

Happinet (A distributor subsidiary of Bandai Visual that handles imports and their more family friendly programming like Aikatsu, Dragon Ball, Super Sentai etc.)

Bandai Channel (Exactly what it sounds like)

Sotsu Agency (Bandai Namco Groups in house advertising firm)

Bandai Namco Games (Bandai Groups video game division and improbably possibly the fastest growing 3rd party developer in the world right now)

D3 Publisher (A subsidiary label of Bandai Namco Holdings that specializes in budget games similar to the Simple 2000 series)

Hanayashiki (An ancient amusement park founded in 1853 that Bandai Namco Holdings owns)

Namco Bandai Partners (What's left of Atari Europe)

>>143107846
quotes from the official books published by bandai, written originally by Hajime Yatate.

Quotes from the original creator (much as you will nonsensically try to pretend Tomino didn't have the original concept, he did)

None of that matters, because you saw some people who were poor on earth, that means that there is no privilege there, no privileged class.

White base crew are all die hard contolists.

>>143108313
Touche. But until we get streaming numbers its all pointless

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>>143104604
>Orga touching a chick that literally gets talked down to by children

Ha ha no. She's too weak to dominate him.

>>143108016

It's a shit storm any time Gundam is discussed. It's a massive old as fuck franchise that not a lot of people comprehend.

>>143108080
Vol 6. is currently at 7,322, not 6,767. It didn't drop much harder than G-Reco, vol. 1 was half price.

>>143107636

Okay, I'm not going to call you stupid or ignorant, I'm going to clarify something for you for future gundam threads.

Yes, Bandai owns Sunrise. Bandi, the giant company that encompasses multiple media, merchandising, and advertising divisions owns Sunrise. Each division operates pretty much independently and at times even compete with each other. Bandai corporate almost never directly meddles unless something is going drastically wrong.

Sunrise owns gundam on all the paperwork and acts pretty much as its own company (Bandai even has a separate, more directly owned media division called Bandai Visual). The different merchandising divisions even need to buy licenses from Sunrise to produce gundam merchandise (They supposedly get this license for next to nothing though).

If anyone meddles, it's the TV Networks (as they get a cut of the merchandising through their contracts for years after the show ends) and Sunrise execs.

>>143108375
>It didn't drop much harder than G-Reco, vol. 1 was half price.
No it wasn't. It was full price.

>>143108279
>I'm gonna believe the poll was rigged because it fits my narrative!
Whatever you say, facts are fact, IBO was their 12th AOTY.

>>143108433
I'm pretty sure IBO's vol 1 was only one episode, and priced accordingly.

>>143108375
>currently
Right
> vol. 1 was half price.
G-Reco was full price and didn't come with a fucking promo code

>>143108433
I mean IBO's first volume, not G-Reco's.

>>143108447
>facts are fact
And the fact is that every single thread shit on it, and the ratings were bad. Go ahead and provide hard data to prove otherwise. Remember, a random net poll that isn't controlled isn't real data just because some assblasted faggot desperately shitposted it on /a/ to pretend IBO wasn't complete trash.

>>143108475
He's talking about G-Reco and no considering that high profile shows like Code Geass and Macross Frontier had full price first volumes with only one episode in its was purely promotion

>>143108274

The franchise is projected to pull in another $80 billion yen or roughly $750 million dollars by years end again. I'd say it has terrifyingly strong legs for something that'll be in it's 40th year soon enough.

>>143108512
The threads shit on it according to you but they still voted for it in the poll. The ratings were bad but it sold good. Stay in denial, Japan likes IBO.

>>143108425
I'm aware, this is the first time anyone has ever been so anal because of course I'm not assuming that Bandai Namco holdings goes and writes that shit. It's just easier to say Bandai.

>>143108218
>trying to shift the goal posts this much
Hahaha wow.

>>143108339
Novels aren't canon.

>>143108613
Fine, the things that the characters in the show say supports it, the supplimentry material supports it, the original creator's novelizations support it.

But you saw a poor person on earth so they must all be wrong. I have to believe this is just trolling at this point.

Does anyone have the /a/ AOTS poll from 2015?

>>143108483
So you are aware that the info is inaccurate but you'll still repost it to prove your point using fake ino. Awesome.

>>143108605
>The threads shit on it according to you
No, that's what they said. They even mades lists of reasons as to how you know you're watching a shitty Okada show, and made threads dedicated to how it's such a disappointment.

>The ratings were bad but it sold good.
The gunpla do, not the show.

>Stay in denial, Japan likes IBO
No they don't. Provide actual evidence or a real poll or fuck off. Go ahead, I dare you to find some posts about how great it is and why the like it. Can't do it? Didn't think so. Remember, "I found it on /a/" isn't a source.

I would like it a lot better if Mika wasn't a manlet.

>>143108734
Isn't he like twelve, and was malnourished?

>>143098307
Garbage last episode.

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>>143108367

Talking about Gundam on this site became worse and worse over the years to point different opinions have there own fan base.

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>>143108722

>>143108713
>is inaccurate
That was its first week sales, what its selling currently is irrelevant because its still a signficant drop from the previous volumes. AYou're just butthurt because you can't prove otherwise.

>>143108356
True. There's no way to be sure.
There was this guy claiming to be a Sunrise insider that said that IBO was getting a second season.
/m/ told him he was full of crap, citing the declining sales as an indicator that it wouldn't.
Guy fired back that the digital numbers more than made up for it.
Well IBO is getting a second season. Maybe they were going to go through with it regardless, as many studios do, even when something is basically flopping.

Man, I'd really like to know if there's a chance for Voltron, but not even Netflix releases any numbers.

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>>143108755
He's 15, and glorious.

>>143108776
>Newtype magazine
You can't actually be this fucking stupid.

>>143098307
It would have been better if Okada was allowed to do what she wanted.

>>143108776
That's nice. Now do the current month

The gunpla is pretty good imo

>>143108770
>tfw gunda/m/ will never return

I once had someone try to use art from REVIVAL OF ZEON to prove something must be a new variant of Gaw... not just that it's fucking revival of zeon.

>>143108755
He's like 14-15 IIRC. Same age as Atra. Atra was malnourished as a result of growing up iun a whorehouse where she was frequently denied food, Mika and the other members of Tekkadan seem to eat just fine, most are taller than Mika by a fair bit (Even Orga, who's known Mika for years and joined Tekkadan at the same time when they were both younger).

>>143108722
>The gunpla do, not the show.
And? That only means that the show is popular among people who aren't into Gunpla, just like Seed and Destiny. Bad Gunpla sales don't mean that the show is disliked.
>Provide actual evidence
BD sales. Average sales of 9k, better sales than Age, G-Reco, GBF and Try. Unless you think that people are ironically buying a show they hate.

>>143108776
I think the most important thing about this, is that Shirayuki was in the top five.

>>143108804
In a way people did realize a second half was planned but whether that was a result of its "success" or something that was always in the pipeline remained to be seen. Given how much of a mess that timeslot is now I'm starting to feel that Banrise just shelled out a lot of money for it to stay.

>>143108816
>"show me a poll!"
>gets shown a poll
>"show me a poll that isn't that poll!"

Just leave.

>>143108080
At the end of the day it's still the best selling disc wise TV Gundam since 00.

>>143108874
>Average sales of 9k, better sales than Age, G-Reco, GBF and Try.
Nope, currently its lower than GBF and at this rate its average will be lower than G-Reco by the end.

>>143108755
According to some unconfirmed that was going on while the show was airing, hr is suppose to be fifteen, the same goes for Atra and Yamagi so they simply have growth problems apparently

>>143108940
Which doesn't mean much given that the gap is so close.

GBF-9.4
G-Reco - 9.0
IBO 9.3

>>143108668
You are literally retarded. I asked for evidence from the start of Earthnoids not being subjected to the same sort of punishment and mistreatment as Spacenoids are, and you never countered that.

I'm still waiting on you.

>>143108874
>And? That only means that the show is popular among people who aren't into Gunpla, just like Seed and Destiny. Bad Gunpla sales don't mean that the show is disliked.
Reading comprehension, you fucking idiot. People like the MS designs, not the show. The gunpla are popular.

>BD sales
>>143108080

>>143108907
>I don't know what Newtype magazine polls are
You're a special kind of idiot. Where are those forum posts of Japs who like it?

>>143108791
>what its selling currently is irrelevant
Because you said so.
> its still a signficant drop from the previous volumes
Ignoring the first volume that was boosted by the half price, it went from 10k to 7k. That's hardly a significant drop, it's the same drop that Fafner and G-Reco had, they both went from 10k to7k in their 6th volume.

>>143109010
Earthnoids were not forced to leave Earth and have political representation within the Federation.

>>143108804
I think you're thinking of Derringer. He works for Bluefin Distribution and gets insider information through business with Bandai, including upcoming gunpla like a year in advance as well as rating, viewer numbers, gunpla sales numbers, etc. His information has been proven reliable although ever since he spoilered that the crossbones were getting HG kits he supposedly got into trouble and has been a lot more vague about his spoilers. Most likely he knew it was getting a second season based on upcoming model kit releases coming this fall (Gunpla releases are planned a year in advance and official distributors get advanced lists of upcoming merchandise)

>>143108845
I bought the Graze Ritter. It's sexy as fuck even without topcoat or panel lining, but as with a lot of recent HG kits, it's got build issues. The hand and torso ball joints are unreliable as all hell. And because the axe handle is round, it tends to spin around in the hand if you pose the suit on its side. Oh, and they could've thought up a better way to open up the helmet. Those poseable armor flaps tho.

>>143109048
Good thing that's not what I was asking.

>>143109034
That chart is inaccurate, you fucking retard. 6th volume is 7,322.

>>143109081
The 1/100 Graze is better. More detail, a better head opening gimmick, and the axe and rifle actually peg into the hand. Unfortunately some of the armor is loose on the frame and there is no Ritter variant. The recently released 1/100 custom/ground type combo is sexy as fuck though.

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>>143108791
>That was its first week sales, what its selling currently is irrelevant
And yet all the other numbers are total sales.

>>143103943
I think you miss the whole "comparison with a typical gundam MC" part. Or you just don't want to see it because it'd mean you are a retard for going full "GUH TACTICAL GENIUS!§" when it was never the point at all. The point is, most Gundam MC are stupid period, and mostly helped by plot armor and that's it, especially female ones. Saying that one is a bit better than the others doesn't mean "OMG SHE'S A REBORN SUN TZU".

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>>143109061
Probably.

In any case, I am sort of glad.
While I'm not the world's biggest fan of IBO, the first season ended in a way that intrigued me as to what the fuck could happen next.
Especially with Chocolate Man basically having his cake and eating it to and then proceeding to eat everybody else's cake too.

Also I just can't help but love Orga, the big dork. I hope we get to see that side of him again.

>>143109288
>How does Kudelia grow
>Because they said she did!
>No, point to things that actually happened in the show
>These other characters were stupid!
Not. A. Fucking. Argument.

>>143109035
>it went from 10k to 7k
13k to 7k

>>143109081
>>143109217

I think the guison is a pretty good meaty gundam build

>>143109035
Wern't all fafner volumes double price though?

>>143109232
>And yet all the other numbers are total sales.
Nope.