2.22 was fucking perfect. Why did Anno have to fuck it up with 3.33?

2.22 was trash, this coming from someone who loves the franchise. Rebuild is a shitstain.

>>142975436
>Why did Anno have to fuck it up with 3.33?
He was forced to completely change the plot of 3.33 on short notice.

>>142975534
For what?

>>142975628
Apparently it matched real-life incidents too closely. (Fukushima)

>>142975436
Don't listen to
>>142975461
>>142975534
>>142975699

One is blind hatred, and the second guy can't substantiate what he says in any way.

Maybe Anno always had the intention to "fuck it up" with 3.33. Maybe he didn't. Regardless, we know for a fact that Rebuild has consistently favored his own favorite characters, and his lackey Tsurumaki. 3.0 happens to be more extreme in this regard than the rest of his works.

The rundown is that Hideaki Anno is an extremely biased author who doesn't have to try any more, and as an otaku himself he holds a grudge against his own character, Rei Ayanami, for being more than twice as popular as Asuka and the other characters Anno had a personal connection with.

This explains all of Evangelion that has happened after EoE, and possibly some things in EoE too. Anno and his core crew no longer writes to make good stories or characters, but only to promote their own favorite eva characters.

There you go. It is that simple.

>>142976391
So 2.22 was just bait?

>>142975436
The original series was made while Anno was depressed while the Remakes were made while he was happy.

>>142975436
No changes improved on the TV series whatsoever. Compared to NGE, 2.22 was quite average

We've been over this
1.0 was Evangelion in its original state, very little was changed from the original, and some can even see it as a recap.
2.0 was Evangelion the way the fans wanted it, Shinji got in the robot, and everything went along like /a/'s personal shitty fanfic.
3.0 was Evangelion the way Anno intended it, which pissed off a lot of butthurt fans.
Thus, 1.0+3.0 will probably be Anno taking the original and his own vision to create something new, the finale of the series, casting off the fans in the process.

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>>142975436
Because Anno hates seeing his fans happy

>>142975436
>Perfect
Come on, son.

>>142976810
It's both and not bait. Depends on how you look at it I guess.

On one end, it's a setup for continuing an interesting story.
On the other, it never came to fruition so it could be construed as bait.

2.22 was shit

http://www.colonydrop.com/hideaki-anno-is-trying-to-kill-anime-and/
>Evangelion 2.0: You Can (Not) Advance isn’t just a terrible movie, it’s a terribly offensive movie and one of the worst animated films in recent memory. It is a disgusting testament to the most shamelessly commercial aspects of the Japanese animation industry, the ineptitude of Hideaki Anno and the crippling stupidity of anime fans. It is a movie made for those who have fooled themselves into thinking that just because it’s Evangelion, and Evangelion is “intellectual,” that they aren’t buying into a scheme of shallow merchandising and pathetic fan-pandering bread and circuses resolutely devoid of any artistic or creative merit.

>>142977293
0/10

Stop parroting bullshit.

>>142977834
See >>142977856

>>142975436
i loved all of eva EOE and 1.11 2.22 and 3.33

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2.22 is the worst anime of all time

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>>142978101
go watch more anime

>>142975436
2.22 > EoE > NGE > 1.11 > 3.33

reminder that non-japanese should not view any part of the evangelion series

>>142975436
2.22 wasn't amazing, but it still had some semblance to being Eva. The setting at the very least

I don't know what the fuck 3.33 was about.

>>142978318
Fucking kill yourself.

So what's the point of the Rebuild series again? I thought it was like a HD remake at first but apparently not.

Is there any reason for it to exist other than sell more merchandise

>>142978540
To patch up Anno's hurt pride. See >>142976391

>>142978562
If that was the case he wouldn't have changed Asuka's name and given her such little screentime

>>142978613
You kidding me m8? He literally gave Asuka a total makeover so she'd be more popular.

>>142978703
She was always popular

>>142978613
Changing Asuka's character is necessary for the character to be likeable.

Ever watched Evangelion? Asuka is an unlikeable cunt. Not a bad character, but an unlikeable cunt nonetheless.

Changing Asuka's name is a calculated risk to insert some new good-feelin'. Shikinami is all about "good fantasy Asuka", the Asuka asuka fans actually want and the asuka they pretend the real Asuka is anyway.

>>142976391
Oh, look, its the mad Reifag that is trying to characterize Rebuild as a conspiracy of Anno and Tsurumaki to hurt Rei.

>>142978101
Where is this contrarian list from anyway? I see it posted quite frequently

>>142978738
She's popular today. The "Asuka" that's actually something like a developed and serious character was less than half as popular as Rei. That made Anno so butthurt he made Rebuild a decade later.

>>142978779
>unlikeable cunt
Sounds more like Rei to me.
Plenty of people loved Asuka back then.

>>142978792
Oh, look, it's the butthurt apologist who knows it's completely true so he goes for ad-homs.

>>142978779
But why would he make Asuka unlikable in 3.33 then.

Hell, why did he make everyone unlikeable

>>142978813
>was less than half as popular as Rei
Source?
Asuka was extremely popular in the 90s. Maybe not as popular as Rei but still very, VERY popular.

>>142978849
No, it sounds just like Asuka.

>but people loved Asuka back then too!
Yeah, sure. People liked both too.

But the amount of people who liked Asuka? Double or triple that amount of people, and you've got Rei's legion of followers.

>>142978813
>less than half
You must have made some awfully precise longitudinal studies to substantiate that claim.

>>142978866
You don't even know what an argument is, and even less so what a fallacy is.

Oh look, it's boiling down to Rei vs Asuka. Again.

Because that's what Eva is all about. Always.

>>142978874
Asuka is more likeable in 3.33/2.22 than she was in the original.

Maybe most have forgot, but Asuka was a complete wreck in the original series that boasted and got shut down hard, she had no success and reality punched her in the face every time.

Not so much in Rebuild, where she bosses people around and gets to go full tsundere without any real life repercussions.

>>142978898
Literally any poll from the 90's. How do you not know this?

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>>142978951
Fuggin waifufags.

>>142978925
>You don't even know what an argument is, and even less so what a fallacy is.

More adhom. Just as predicted.

I like 3.33. Some moments are pretty awesome. And visual is good. I hope all theories about what happened between 2.22 and 3.33 will not throw away in last movie.
>>142978101
>124
Jesus christ. /a/ is doomed

>>142975436

3.33 was the best out of the three, 2.22 was incoherent, and 1.11 played it safe.

NGE has far better character development and direction than the rebuilds.

>>142978906
>>142978975
I see no evidence for that claim. She was slightly less popular than Rei but still extremely popular and iconic.
People liked her just fine back then.

>>142978898
Newtype, Animedia polls and even the radio drama CD mentions it, and Anno wrote that one.

Hell, Anno mentions on several occasions that Rei is the overwhelming favorite, just to follow up with some butthurt anti-japan commentary.

>>142978925
see above.

>>142979071
>ANNO: I'm surprised. In Japan, the overwhelming favorite is Rei.

>>142978951
Sadly this is how all Eva threads go.

>>142978318
NGE ep25&26 > EoE > 3.33+shorts > 1.11 > 2.22

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>>142975436
2.22 didn't destroy Eva hard enough for Anno's taste. He wanted to break it completely.

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>>142979019
An argumentum ad hominem is a fallacy, but a non-argument cannot be a fallacy.

Please stop parroting terms like the names of logical fallacies, if you don't understand them.

>>142979071
This is pure fucking denial. You have no idea, just go check ANY poll from the 90's. There's not a single person alive from that era who'll dispute the fact that Rei was vastly more popular, even to the point of being satirized in comics, even a gag reel Anno himself wrote.

It's not like Asuka was unpopular, but compared to Rei? There was a power-gap.

>>142979164
True pleb opinion. Even reddit is wors ethan you.

Haven't watch the rebuild series but I have watch the anime and EoE. What went wrong in the rebuild movies?

Why do people treat EoE like it's something separate from NGE? All it is is the last episode.

Holy shit you are all autistic

>>142979271
More adhom. Keep going anon, just show everyone how retarded you are.

>>142979152
>>142978951
>>142978995
The state of things could have been different. But as long as people are seflish otaku incapable of accepting simple facts, such as the waifufag replied to above, it will continue.

Hideaki Anno himself is such a person, and he feeds that toxic personality directly into the new Evangelion, and here we go.

Believe me or not, once upon a time you could have detailed discussion on the characters.

>>142978101
>124

I miss when people actually watched shows

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>>142979383
Stop acting like you're not part of the problem.

>>142975534
>>142975628
>>142975699
Never heard of that before.
I think Anno disliked how 2.22 became. Form what I've read, the staff had conflicting ideas on how the story should play out. The script was rewritten multiple times-with some variations having Mari as a prominent character as Asuka's rival for lead pilot of unit 2.

Apparently some bridges were burned during 2.22's production.

and after all that, its not surprising that Anno distanced 3.33 story so much from 2.22.

Asuka is a more complex and overall better developed character than Rei

>>142979071
just googled:
*1, Ayanami Rei
*2, Tsukino Usagi
*3, Soryu Asuka Langley

from the 1990's female character poll from newtype.

There's a huge gap inbetween #1 and #2, and more to #3.

>>142979479
I'm not a part of the problem. I can honestly say this, because I don't treat it like an unsolvable problem or one without an answer.

The fact that you do prolongs the problem and will result in no result ever being achieved, and therefore there is eternal waifuwar.

>>142979503
I'd say it's the other way around. Rei tackles more complex issues and has a big advantage over Asuka that she actually has an arc from start to end.

Asuka just stops existing as a developing character near the end and becomes more like a puppet subject to the plot's will.

>>142978951
Blame textwall kun and his rampant butthurt.

>>142979499
>>142975436
Mari originally was more involved in the plot for 2.0. According to (Eva-2.0 Complete records collection)
A 200+page book containing; behind the scenes information, original drafts, scene panels detailing alternative/deleted segments, ect.... (http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii112/IrkenEvangelion/asuka-guro-2.jpg)


(POTENTIAL SPOILERS)


Originally Mari was going to be introduced by piloting Eva-2 at sea fighting an angel on battleships, Mari/Kaji are both introduced to the cast while Asuka arrives later by plane, both Mari and Asuka pilot Unit-2 with Asuka being its designated pilot , referring to Mari as her "support fire"(later used in 3.0)
Eventually Mari with a higher sync ratio with Unit-2 than Asuka becomes its main pilot during the 9th angel attack, leaving Asuka devastated not piloting Eva (NGE style) Asuka then jumps at the chance to pilot unit-3.(o_o)
Mari talks with all the pilots, goes to the school, Convinces Shinji (face to face) to pilot Unit-1 during the 10th angel attack at the watermelon field; kissing him...

The script was later remade (again) to what we have now.

It is also worth mentioning that Asuka was originally in unit-2 during the 10th angel attack. (In the first or second draft for 2.0.)
It explains why during the Zeruel battle (when it hits unit-2 a second time) the camera zoom's towards Mari's left eye (implying it getting hit), yet later we see that it's the right side of her face that's injured.---Originally Asuka was in Mari's place and the scene showed how she lost her eye. The aforementioned scene was a recycled element from the earlier draft-and the animators just forgot (or were lazy) to edit the scene.


It wouldn't be Evangelion if the production wasn't chaotic.

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>>142979663
>Rei tackles more complex issues
Like?

>>142979499
I don't think so really. Anno made 2.22 exactly to his own wishes according to the production note.

2.22 is precisely what he decided it to be, and I don't think he regretted it. 3.33 continues most of it's trends save the ones pertaining to building quality storytelling.

It's not unusual for scripts to be rewritten during production, it's more like the normal process.

>>142979800
The concept of the self, AKA "the hard problem" because it's the only question left we can consider exceedingly difficult. Google it for an interesting read.

Rei's character most obviously deals with expressions, and the difference between feeling something and expressing something. The personal story also tackles the usual ropes of Eva themes, of interpersonal relationships, loneliness and fear. But the "positive message arc" of Rei is in releasing herself from the toxic oppression and abuse from organizations like NERV and people like Gendo.

There's also a huge topic of Rei's interactions with Shinji, since she's patently similar to his mother - Freud would have a field day talking about that one.

>>142979708
That still sounds pretty fucking terrible.

Mari's existence is pretty terrible in general.

>>142979988
Mari's existence could actually have been great. There's huge writing potential in exploring her character as someone who enters the world of piloting with the sincere intent to enjoy it.

A great paralell to some of the fans who say they'd love to pilot an EVA. We could see if the carefree Mari, or by extension, them, would be up to the task.

>>142979071
Rei was known as the "premium girl" for her ability to move merch

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>>142979976
>toxic
Hello tumblr.

Alright, so who's actually excited for 4.0?

>>142980182
Asukafags are the ones from tumblr

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>>142980145
That's not the only reason why she was known as the "premium girl" if you catch my drift.

>>142980182
>oh no someone used a word that someone else also uses and I have a problem with that

Fuck tumblr, I used "toxic" way before they did and they're not taking it from me. Fuck you too for letting them get away with stealing good words from the english language. It's not theirs.

>>142980230
>>142980276
>Reifags ravenously defending tumblr rhetoric
Surprise surprise. I think you should go back there.

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>>142980182
>that image
/k/aworufags, amirite?

>>142980122
Okay, that doesn't sound too bad. I actually thought that what she was supposed to be at first.

But unfortunately this isn't what we got and we have a Mari serves no purpose in the plot other than be mysterious and enigmatic.

>>142975436
2.22 had a mecha crossbow with an energy string and replaced six cool monsters with two lame ones. 1.11 is best Rebuild.

>>142980476
The entire Rebuild series is a waste by now, except the people hoping for pandering.

>>142980303
>some retarded asukafag shitposting instead of contributing
Fuck off.

Good Idea:
2.22

Bad Idea:
3.33

>>142980508
>replaced six cool monsters with two lame ones

But there was only one new one.

>>142980653
There's the clock and the secret 3rd Angel Nerv has in captivity that Mari kills. And that sounds like something cool and mysterious, them having a live capture they've been vivisecting for years, and then it goes nowhere and there isn't room for it go anywhere after 3.33.

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>>142980526
>How DARE you not contribute to my whining circlejerk, shitposter!
How new do you have to be to think that this discussion is in any way novel here?

>>142981111
Oh right, I forgot about that one in the beginning.

I was honestly kind of hyped for what the preview showed. Eva without Shinji and all that.

>>142981341
>retard Asukafag continues being retarded
Nothing new I see.

>>142981979
Nice contribution. Clearly a paragon of Eva discussion.

>>142979708
Would that explain the huge plot hole between 2.22 and 3.33?

At the end of 2.22, Shinji tries to save Rei, while Mistao cheers him on, which leads the Eva unit 1 to start turning into an (Angel? God-like Eva?) which would ultimately lead to another Impact, destroying a huge chunk of the livable earth, but Kaworu throws the Spear of Longness into Shinji's Eva unit, preventing it from continuing to transform and stopping the Impact from occuring.

3.33 - 14 years have passed and Shinji is in space for some reason. The Impact actually occurred, and everyone blames Shinji for it.

This COMPLETELY ignores what happened at the end of 2.22. Can someone help me understand this, or is this just really shitty directing?

>>142982229
Believe it or not, things happened in the time between the end of 2.22 and the start of 3.33

>>142982270
Believe it or not, those things are literally a plot hole.

Fuck yourself.

>>142982229
It's just shitty directing, literally. See >>142976391

>>142982479
Or if you take a second to consider the fact that Lilith has grown in size and been interacted with, you'd realize that something else impact related happened after the ending we saw. Then factor in the fact that, like in the original, characters can be wrong about things, and bam, you have an idea of what happened.

Or you can just stick your fingers in your ears and call it shit. Thinking is hard!

>>142982229
There's no plot hole. Some time after Unit 01 is sealed away, Eva Mark.06 is taken over by the 12th Angel, fuses with Lilith, and causes Third Impact until someone impales the two of them with the Spears.

Then Kaworu tells Shinji some half-truths and guilts him into piloting Eva 13 so Seele can have their little party.

>>142982799
$100 that Shinji's actions while inside the Eva core between 2.0 and 3.0 caused the catastrophe.

>>142982545
>>142982799
Or if you weren't fucking retarded, you'd accept like a sane, rational person that a hole in the plot as shown between 2.22 and 3.33 is what we call a "plot hole".

You can keep fanwanking all you want, it will always be a plot hole no matter how hard you cry.

>b-but if I fanwank something then it's not!!1one
You can fanwank away literally _any_ plothole. Stop being fucking stupid.

>>142982869
Don't waste your welfare check on some anon.

>>142982891
>If they don't explain every single thing that ever happened ever, it's a plot hole and fanwank!
You're fucking retarded. Oh no, a few days pass in the time that Shinji is at Nerv, but we only see 30 minutes of that time! What could have possibly happened in all that time we didn't see?! Shinji probably fucking died and the Shinji we see afterwards - along with the entire universe - must be a completely new one created anew! After all, we didn't see what actually happened!

We know for a fact that Lilith has been interacted with. We know for a fact that characters can be wrong. We know for a fact that you are fucking retarded and offer nothing to this conversation than, "Lalala, I don't like it so it's shit."

Have fun with you head up your ass.

>>142982545
>>142982799
>normal, attentive and intelligent viewer
There appears to be a large gap in the plot between 2.22 and 3.33. A plot hole, if you will.

>obsessed, retarded and brainless viewer
There is no plot hole! Something obviously happened inbetween, and even if we don't see it or have it described anywhere, and if you just read my fanfic (please like, rate and subscribe) you'll see!


Heads up kids: This is what we call a plothole. There's information missing in the story that adequately explains how it got from A to B, where an explanation is paramount to sustain viewer suspense of disbelief.

>>142982984
He's a Reifag who's just butthurt his waifu isn't in the movie. Don't engage with him seriously.

>>142983018
Oh cool, it's that "I AM SILLY!" comic in text form.

>>142982984
>compares 30 minutes to 14 years
Just stop embarrasing yourself.

How old are you? Twelve, thirteen? I'm saying this in your favor because god help you if you're this stupid at eighteen.

For all the "facts" you've mentioned, even the fanwank, none of them change the fact that we're dealing with a plot hole the size of your momma.

You're offering ZERO to this conversation by shitting all over it with your stupidity.

If you want to talk fanwank, then go write a story on deviantart. We don't need twelveyearolds to make up shit.

>>142983110
There is no substantial difference between those amounts of times when it comes to your complaint. Something important can happen during that time, no matter how long it is.

You're complaining that, because you aren't explicitly shown what happens, then taking what we do know to figure it out therefore doesn't count. The best part is that you're calling fanwank when the only thing I did was offer up two facts: Lilith has been interacted with, and characters can be wrong. There is no fanwank there, and you seem to be completely incapable of thinking about facts.

Instead, you'd rather sit here with your head up your ass and declare that everyone is dumb, everyone but you. After all, if you keep shouting everyone down, that means you win right?

>>142982984
In other words, you don't know shit. Exactly what the anons before you said, and the anons after you will say for decades to come about the shittiness of 2.22->3.33. That Lilith had beeen "tampered with" means exactly fucking nothing and isn't even something that matters since it was explicitly shown.

The problem here is that 14 years are unaccounted for, and those 14 years account for the majority of the impact on these characters lives, and the story progression. Not only is that a problem, there's also a huge problem in establishing how we actually got from 2.22 to 3.33 in terms of plot. What you've brought up is the equivalent of summarizing "World War 2" by saying "We know there was a war, and we know that 5 or so years passed and something inbetween it happened". If you were graded on your answer, you'd obviously fail.

Making up a bunch of stuff you THOUGHT happened in WW2, would only worsen your grade.

Then think of it as a method to convince the audience - without this vital information, you're going to convince the audience that the story isn't serious, and that kills suspense of disbelief. It's jumping to a conclusion which doesn't make sense.

>>142983268
Stop replying to posts multiple times retard. We all know you're one guy.

>>142982891
Asuka straight up tells you the 12th Angel caused Third Impact the second it appears. That's not fanwank, it's in the fucking movie.

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Every thread, until you shave it

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>>142983392
What did she mean by this?

>>142983268
You know, you're right, I would get a failing grade; I only answered 2 parts of a 3 part question.

>3.33 - 14 years have passed and Shinji is in space for some reason. The Impact actually occurred, and everyone blames Shinji for it.
So, in order,
>Seele did it
>Lilith was tampered with after the ending
>People can be wrong
All of these are facts that we know from the movie itself.

What you're complaining about here, once again, is the fact that you aren't explicitly shown everything. You are making a completely different argument here. Why is that, I wonder? Maybe because your head is up your ass? That sure would explain why you have so much difficulty following along.

Uh-oh! There's a lot of time that passes inbetween each of your post! I can't know anything about you! Your posts don't even connect to each other. There's some massive fucking plot holes in your arguments anon! You sure are shit!

>>142983243
>There is no substantial difference between those amounts of times when it comes to your complaint.
Are you a fucking moron or something? No substantial difference between 30min of lost time versus 14? Are you being deliberately retarded son?

It makes a fuckhuge amount of difference, and don't you pretend otherwise. 30min of time where little happens that influences the plot means nothing, but 14 long years which affects the entire cast and changes everything drastically means everything.

Please stop being so stupid, or fuck off to twitter where you can't write a long enough reply to really let it sink in how dumb you are.

I am not complaining, I am stating the indisputable fact that there exists a plot hole in Rebuild. You are being a pussy-ass bitch because you're an obsessive, dumb otaku who can't deal with the fact that a animated chinese cartoon you like actually has a flaw.

The facts you bring up change nothing insofar the aforementioned facts are mentioned.

>hurdur characters can be wrong
So fucking what? The essence of it all lies in WHY and HOW they are wrong, not the concept that a person can be wrong. You don't need Rebuild to tell you that.

So when are you going to get your head out of YOUR ass anon? You are fucking stupid, and yes, only you, because only you would actually dare claim that there isn't a plothole. The only reason I shout you down is because you deserve to be shouted down for having a such retarded comment on the whole situation. Want to avoid that?

Accept the facts: there is a huge plothole.

>>142983455
>when it comes to your complaint
Confirmed for being unable to read.

>>142983455
>No substantial difference between 30min of lost time versus 14?
Good, you read most of that sentence, now read the rest.
>when it comes to your complaint
Wow, that was hard!

>30min of time where little happens that influences the plot
Gee, that's super interesting.
>Something important can happen during that time, no matter how long it is.
The point is that, no matter how long a time skip there is, something important can happen there. Likewise, no matter how long a time skip is, there very well may be nothing important happening.

>The rest of your post: Nuh-uh, it's you who is the one who is the dumb one!
Wow, amazing. You refuse to address the things I actually say and instead just lob insults galore. You have a wall of text here completely devoid of content.

Anon, I think you might have found a second ass inside of the ass your head's already in. You should probably call a doctor.

>>142983442
>All of these are facts that we know from the movie itself.
Let's review why these facts are either wrong, or don't matter. First, the easy one:

>People can be wrong
This is a simple fact that doesn't even relate to Rebuild or 3.33 specifically. Pointless observation that by the way, only makes it clear that you have unreliable information - and in other words, more of a potential plot hole.

>Lilith was tampered with after the ending
This in itself means nothing, when the how, why and when and not only, by WHO.

>Seele did it
You can't actually say for sure. They are a suspect, but Gendo or literally anyone else can be the potential culprit. So either your facts don't matter, or aren't even facts at all. What you're trying and failing at is to show that there isn't a plot hole. There is a huge plot hole.

It's about time you stopped coming with dumb shit like
>Uh-oh! There's a lot of time that passes inbetween each of your post! I can't know anything about you! Your posts don't even connect to each other. There's some massive fucking plot holes in your arguments anon! You sure are shit!

and actually accept the fact that there is a plot hole.

>>142983442
>People can be wrong

Yup, that explains absolutely nothing. So Whoever tampered with Lilith framed it on Shinji? How it was tampered with and how they framed Shinji isn't even touched on in the movie, which leads the audience to be completely confused as to why they hate his guts. You would have to think very deeply about this AFTER the movie has ended to even come close to understanding. Bullshit.

>>142983582
>Good, you read most of that sentence, now read the rest.
Not an argument, and I read it all. Try again.

>The point is that, no matter how long a time skip there is, something important can happen there. Likewise, no matter how long a time skip is, there very well may be nothing important happening.

Then let's get to it: something important happened inbetween, and whatever it was, it's missing. This is a fact.

This is what we call a plot hole. Ready to accept the facts yet?

>>142983345
That bit actually is fanwank. Asuka doesn't say that in the movie unless you're dealing with a fucked up translation or just straight up misunderstood.

Fanwank is making up the idea that there isn't a plothole in a movie which continues 14 years after the previous with everything drastically changed, without any explanation save for the obvious "something happened" mention.

>>142983613
>this is a simple fact that doesn't even relate to Rebuild or 3.33 specifically.
You're just pretending to be retarded, right?
>and everyone blames Shinji for it
Wow, so you mean the people blaming Shinji for something he didn't do could be... WRONG? Woah, there. Slow down! That's just fanwank! We can't accept that!

>This in itself means nothing
Except, you know, that it tells us how another Impact happened. We know a general when - after Shinji's spearing - a general who - by mark 06, with or without Kaworu in it - and frankly, we're missing the why for a lot of thing.

>You can't actually say for sure
It has an artificial angel on it, which is controlled by Nerv, which is controlled by Seele. Woah there, those leaps of logic might be a little to steep for you! I know, you need to understand the mechanical framework of the artificial angels first. I'll go prepare a 50 page thesis for you on all of their vital functions.

>>142983687
>Then let's get to it: something important happened inbetween, and whatever it was, it's missing. This is a fact.
No, the fact is not that it's missing; the fact is that we are not told exactly what it is. That is not a plot hole; that is having information withheld from you.

You're like one of this retards who complains that you don't understand everything after the first episode of an anime.

>>142983665
>You would have to think very deeply about this AFTER the movie has ended to even come close to understanding.
You say that like it's a bad thing, to think about something after viewing it to understand it better.

>>142983442
How do you not get that any of these three, even when combined don't add up to enough plot to fill the hole inbetween 2.22 and 3.33?

We know all sorts of useless information about what supposedly happened. Misato is still named Misato, WILLE is created, staffed and is now at war with NERV, there's flying battleships flying around, EVA01 is in orbit, and there's characters whose presence are unaccounted for.

This isn't a story, nor is it a sequence of events that add up to plot. There's simple stateful facts that describe how things are now. Like take the only plot-related example you have in your post, that "Lilith was tampered with". Is there a story here? Who did it, when did they do it, why did they do it, and how did they do it? Something like this would be required to form a full plot. It isn't there. It's a literal hole in the plot.

This is important to know because it forms the basis for everything we see unfolding in the movie. It's important to the viewer because they're invested in a story that doesn't match what they're currently watching.

If this was just one thing, it might be passable. But it concerns every character, every plot detail in the entire movie sans Shinji, and then again, we can't be sure either because there's memory loss involved.

We're left with a drastic change in the story that by the end amounted to pandering, and pandering only. This is a really bad plothole.

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It's best boy's birthday today.

>>142984007
How do you not get that I'm not addressing the full 14 years that pass between 2.22 and 3.33, but rather the 3 questions one anon asked in his post.

You're so fucking obsessed with shouting about how much you hate it that you can't even follow a single response properly.

>>142983925
>No, the fact is not that it's missing; the fact is that we are not told exactly what it is. That is not a plot hole; that is having information withheld from you.
It's a plothole. When a story leaves out a crucial part of the plot and continues on with it's story, we call it a plot hole.

It's information that is missing, and if you can't see that "information missing" is exactly equivalent to
>we are not told exactly what it is
then there's no really helping you, is there?

>>142984080
>When a story leaves out a crucial part of the plot and continues on with it's story, we call it a plot hole.
Guess every single mystery story that has ever existed is a plot hole, then.

>>142984064
I'm talking about those three as well, and your post. You're just trying too hard to defend it. I'm just being objective and analytical about it, you just want to quarrel apparently.

>>142983990
Not if you are on the 3rd installment of a movie series and completely confused as to what the fuck is going on. It made the movie very unpleasant.

>>142984164
>I'm just being objective and analytical about it, you just want to quarrel apparently.
Oh, okay. I see the problem here; you think that you're me, and I'm you. That must be very confusing for you.

>>142984123
3.33 isn't presented or written as a mystery.

>>142984210
So you can't have any mysteries in anything that isn't billed as a mystery?

>>142984192
And there's at least one more installment to come. You feeling overwhelmed is irrelevant.

Even Asuka's eye is a plot hole. Last she's seen in 2.22 pretty much the only thing said about her condition was that she wasn't physically contaminated.

>>142984123
Having a gap in the story that is directly in-between movies that are several years apart with no explanation during said movie and there not being a possibility of an explanation for several more years would be considered a "bad" plot hole.

>>142976391
>in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king

>>142983925
>You're just pretending to be retarded, right?
No argument I see. Looks like you are just obsessed with 3.33 to understand.

>Wow, so you mean the people blaming Shinji for something he didn't do could be... WRONG? Woah, there. Slow down! That's just fanwank! We can't accept that!
What on earth are you on about and who are you quoting exactly? I didn't write that.

>Except, you know, that it tells us how another Impact happened. We know a general when - after Shinji's spearing - a general who - by mark 06, with or without Kaworu in it - and frankly, we're missing the why for a lot of thing.
You're clearly downplaying how general this is. Shinji is speared in 2.22, and this general "when" would then span the entire length of the 14 years that have passed. You're missing everything, and most importantly, you're missing the story. A bullet point list of "when, how, why, who" doesn't make a story in itself. It needs to be made into a plot and a story, which is missing.

>It has an artificial angel on it, which is controlled by Nerv, which is controlled by Seele. Woah there, those leaps of logic might be a little to steep for you! I know, you need to understand the mechanical framework of the artificial angels first. I'll go prepare a 50 page thesis for you on all of their vital functions.

At least you recognize them as leaps of logic. The problem is that you don't want to accept that your leaps of logic, and your proposed 50 page thesis based on virtually nothing is exactly what you've been criticized for: fanwanking.

>>142983990
There's a big difference between reflecting on a movie, and having to obsessively piece together everything in it to try to make up for the plot holes. Consider a hypothetically poorly written story with many plot-holes. You could spend the same amount of time on that story filling in the holes so that it would be in your head, complete. But the poorly written story will always be that, a poorly written story. 3.33 is the same.

>>142984400
>with no explanation during said movie
We do get an explanation; it simply isn't comprehensive. We are told many of the things that occurred during the timeskip by Misato, Ritsuko, and Kaworu.

>there not being a possibility of an explanation for several more years
This just boils down to
>I want answers now!
It's irrelevant to that actual content of the story.

>>142984393
That's not a plot hole. At some point in the 14 year time skip she lost her eye. It might not be explained how, but that doesn't make it a plot hole.

>>142984257
>So you can't have any mysteries in anything that isn't billed as a mystery?

I'm telling you that 3.33 does not deal with the plot hole as a mystery in any respect. It is very simply a missing piece of the story. A story with a missing middle isn't a mystery.

Because it's not a simple question or a "whodunit" we're dealing with 3.33, we're talking about entire chunks of the characters missing to the point of reducing them to otaku fap-fuel fetish in 3.33.

There are no stories for these characters, only otaku self-insertion. This is a problem.

>>142984478
The eye just being gone would make more sense than the something going on under the patch.

>>142984469
>We do get an explanation; it simply isn't comprehensive. We are told many of the things that occurred during the timeskip by Misato, Ritsuko, and Kaworu.

Not that guy but stop fucking lying. You're being told the obvious, that a impact-like event happened and that characters that, you as a viewer can't see, are missing.

Why exactly do you defend 3.33 so much? You will never, ever be taken seriously because you won't be reasonable. It's like we're yelling at some moron refusing to come down from a tree.

This should be super simple, 3.33 made 14-year long jump which is for the children, longer than they've lived as they were introduced in the previous movies. There are changes to absolutely everything, and there is no focus on building character or story in the movie sans pandering for absolute braindeads.

Why exactly won't you accept that simple fact?

>>142984448
>No argument I see.
Much like the majority of your posts.

>What on earth are you on about and who are you quoting exactly? I didn't write that.
You being too stupid to differentiate between mocking you and quoting you is not an argument.

>and this general "when" would then span the entire length of the 14 years that have passed.
No, it wouldn't There is time that needs to be allocated to Wille getting together and having a few battles with Nerv, which no matter how much you protest we know for a fact occur.

>A bullet point list of "when, how, why, who" doesn't make a story in itself
Good thing I'm not explaining the story. Why are you so fucking dense that you can't tell - even though I've said it several times now - that I'm not even trying to explain the full story. You sure do love fanwanking about my posts!

>fanwanking.
Once again, just boil it down to "If I'm not told everything explicitly, it didn't happen!" Next you're going to complain that we can't know what anyone is thinking or feeling unless they say as much aloud!

>having to obsessively piece together everything in it to try to make up for the plot holes.
False dichotomy. You're basically saying that everything you don't like and everything that isn't explicitly said and shown on screen is fanwank. You will refuse anything and everything otherwise.

>>142984478
It's a plot hole because it has undefined characteristics, and is featured in 3.33. Best way to describe it now is that it's a dumb change, and only reflects otaku pandering through eyepatch moe.

>>142984629
I answered a single, 3 part question. You idiots take that as me being a diehard defender and lover of 3.33, and believe I'm trying to explain the entirety of those 14 years with those 3 half assed bullet points.

>This should be super simple, 3.33 made 14-year long jump which is for the children, longer than they've lived as they were introduced in the previous movies. There are changes to absolutely everything, and there is no focus on building character or story in the movie sans pandering for absolute braindeads.
This is a completely different argument all together and has nothing to do with the fact that we do, in fact, have knowledge available about these in between events. Just because you people refuse to think about it and would rather halt all discussion to just call it shit while you finger your assholes doesn't make that knowledge nonexistent.

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>2.22 was fucking perfect.

>>142983433
she meant, shave you're neckbeard.

>>142984469
I'm still talking about the plot hole about the Impact and everyone hating Shinji. Having to wait 10 years for an explanation is not acceptable when it causes an entire movie to not make any sense.

Time Skips in general are fine, so long as they are conducted properly. This is by the worst time skip I've ever seen in any form of entertainment. There's a difference between "confusion" and "not knowing". This time skip not only causes the audience to become completely confused as to what is happening, but it also COMPLETELY wipes out the characters that viewers have become engrossed in.

If Anno had at least shown us the very last moments before Shinji was sent into space, it would at least set up that "mystery" aspect to it. That doesn't happen, and the gap makes people feel like they just skipped an entire movie.

>>142984738
It's just one Reifag arguing with you. He has a habit of replying to the same posts multiple times to pretend he's different people but he's just samefagging.

>>142984633
>Much like the majority of your posts.
I've made an argument every single post. You have not, and instead you've failed to reply. Just take this:

>You being too stupid to differentiate between mocking you and quoting you is not an argument.

You clearly, clearly do not have an argument since all you can do is act like a petulant child imitating an adult it doesn't like.

>No, it wouldn't There is time that needs to be allocated to Wille getting together and having a few battles with Nerv, which no matter how much you protest we know for a fact occur.

This could very well be within those 14 years. NERV could have built themselves up for 14 years, and then had the impact-event occur prompting the creation of WILLE. WILLE could even be created at the start, only to have the impact event occur in the 14th year. Then the story picks up at 3.33.

The fact that all this is technically possible is undeniable proof that you don't know which it is, and that there is a large hole in the plot which you cannot account for.

>Good thing I'm not explaining the story. Why are you so fucking dense that you can't tell - even though I've said it several times now - that I'm not even trying to explain the full story. You sure do love fanwanking about my posts!

You're contradicting the fact that there is a huge plot hole in 3.33. To assert that you're right, you need to explain the entire story with absolute certainty - which you can't. This isn't fanwank, it's logic and you perhaps realizing that you're wrong. Now you only need to come down.

>False dichotomy. You're basically saying that everything you don't like and everything that isn't explicitly said and shown on screen is fanwank. You will refuse anything and everything otherwise.
Of course you'd be the same obsessive person.

I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying what I wrote in my earlier post. Respond to that, or just accept that you're wrong.

>>142984853
>hurr durr butthurt pro-3.33fag
I know for a fact there's at least me plus two other people ragging on this guy. Stop making up because of lol fan waifu war politics, you degenerate shitposter.

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>>142975436
>2.22 was fucking perfect

>>142984904
I'm not even pro3.33, I just know you're a pathological liar and samefag like there's no tomorrow.
It's just you arguing against him. Feel free to pull out your phone to screw the post timers but it's clear as day.

>>142984853
Not true, we are just both on the same page.

>>142984836
>Having to wait 10 years for an explanation is not acceptable when it causes an entire movie to not make any sense.
The movie does make any sense. It simply has a different focus than you want and leaves a lot of things unanswered. So you're confused and unsatisfied? Okay, but that doesn't make it a plot hole.

>This is by the worst time skip I've ever seen in any form of entertainment.
Sure. However, you not liking the execution does not make it a plot hole. Showing Shinji fly up into space would only potentially answer one of that 3 part question, and don't pretend like you people wouldn't still complain.

>>142984904
Yeah, you plus two other people who all share the exact same rhetoric and inability to have a decent argument.
Who the fuck do you think you're fooling?

>>142984991
Take your meds, Reifag.

>>142984738
>I answered a single, 3 part question. You idiots take that as me being a diehard defender and lover of 3.33, and believe I'm trying to explain the entirety of those 14 years with those 3 half assed bullet points.

No, you've clearly gone far beyond that with your replies. You claim it's an "explanation" while in reality it's merely a showcase of current facts. An explanation would actually need to explain something with at least some of that comprehensiveness you admit it lacks. Right now, it has none.

You must logically be some sort of die-hard 3.33 defender because who else would insist so strongly on being obviously wrong? It's not a different argument you're bringing up, you're just trying to weasel out.

To say that we have "knowledge" about the inbetween events is deeply dishonest, you have "a half assed bullet point list" consisting of three points.

Unlike you, people have thought about it since 3.33 came out, and unlike you again - they know why it is like that. The reason why actually negates any point in taking it seriously, so the only conclusion is that you're delusional.

>>142984861
>I've made an argument every single post. You have not
Yeah, those posts that are nothing more than insults sure are great arguments.

>The fact that all this is technically possible is undeniable proof that you don't know which it is, and that there is a large hole in the plot which you cannot account for.
The fact that you cannot tell that Shinji doesn't die and destroy the entire universe when he goes to sleep, then recreate it anew when he wakes up is technically possible, and therefore tells us there is a large hole in the plot which you cannot account for.

>I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying what I wrote in my earlier post. Respond to that, or just accept that you're wrong.
Everything you have argued in this thread boils down to this. Whether you accept that or not is your own failing.

>>142985018
>>142985018
Not trying to fool anyone. You're both fucking butthurt at me or the other guy for disagreeing with you. You're so butthurt that in fact you can't accept simple reason. I clearly argue a lot with this guy, but so are two other people because they aren't me.

So you can either stop trying to start a shitpost-fest you'll lose because you'll be ignored, or you can actually stop being obsessed neckbeards/fujoshits and deal with what the franchise is on a rational level.

>>142985076
>You claim it's an "explanation" while in reality it's merely a showcase of current facts.
I never claimed it was an explanation. Go back and read the very first reply that started this; it was a call for you to think for yourself, not a claim that I'm out to explain the entirety of everything.

>You must logically be some sort of die-hard 3.33 defender
No, I musn't. Your projecting is irrelevant and only serves to make you convince yourself that you're in the right. You can fellate yourself on your own.

>>142985008
You have to understand, this is a movie series, not a tv series. You can't conduct the same form of storytelling on both mediums and expect the audience to enjoy it both ways. All of your arguments would be reasonable if the episodes weren't so far apart.

There's a good reason why 3.33 gets so many negative responses compared to 1.11 and 2.22 or NGE.

>>142985280
>and expect the audience to enjoy it both ways
Your enjoyment is irrelevant and another topic altogether.

>>142985180
>Yeah, those posts that are nothing more than insults sure are great arguments.
Those are only for you. I always include arguments even if you get an insult included. You may not have read them because you get flustered and insecure, but hey, that only shows how rational you are.

>The fact that you cannot tell that Shinji doesn't die and destroy the entire universe when he goes to sleep, then recreate it anew when he wakes up is technically possible, and therefore tells us there is a large hole in the plot which you cannot account for.

This counter is so stupid that it's embarrassing that you made it. Straw men don't work. Notice how I don't have to use them but you do?

>Everything you have argued in this thread boils down to this. Whether you accept that or not is your own failing.
It does boil down to that, yes. Because I've proven several times over that you're wrong. Whether you accept after that or not, only proves one thing:

Those that hold your opinion do not hold it because they arrived at it by sane or rational means. They hold it because it's convenient or pleasing, even if they know they're wrong.

>>142985008
>The movie does make any sense. It simply has a different focus than you want and leaves a lot of things unanswered. So you're confused and unsatisfied? Okay, but that doesn't make it a plot hole.

This isn't something that's true for just him personally. We've objectively and logically demonstrated that things are in fact unanswered. His enjoyment (and yours) isn't up for debate. Neither is mine, for that matter. This is a plot hole because there is a hole in the plot. It's a simple truth.

3.33 is a mess of a movie, the plot hole among other choices in direction being the reason. I recommend you stop defending it and instead discuss it objectively.

>>142985332
My enjoyment of the movie matches up pretty well with a majority of the fans. Shitty directing.

>>142985398
>Those are only for you. I always include arguments even if you get an insult included. You may not have read them because you get flustered and insecure, but hey, that only shows how rational you are.
There you go confusing yourself for me again. You should stop that.

>Straw men don't work
It's not a straw man, it's an argument ad absurdum.

>It does boil down to that, yes.
Great, you just agreed with in this post what you disagreed with in the previous. You can't even keep consistent in a single back-and-forth.

We're done here. You've stuck your head so far up your ass you're seeing fractals. Go ahead and proclaim yourself the victor; I know you're so desperate to etch another well earned strike on your wall.

All the rebuilds are nothing but self-indulgence on anno's part
The franchise should've ended after EoE

>>142985280
I doubt this 3.33fag understands that.

He's seriously trying to argue that 30min interval with nothing of importance happening is the exact same size plot hole as a 14 year long interval with major things occuring.

Listen, he knows he's beat. Like everyone else who ends up defending 3.33, they run into a wall and start making idiots out of themselves.

>>142985592
Congratulations, you've gone full off-topic and full-on personal attack.

I think that settles it, you've officially lost this debate, as you will every other debate. Goodbye!

>>142985624
In hindsight, I agree whole-heartedly. EoE is really the last good evangelion piece. It didn't have to be this way either, if Anno wasn't such a freak.

Is 4.44 ever coming out?

3.33's plotholes and lack of everything that isn't pure otaku pandering is unacceptable. I'm not surprised in the least that it got the worst ratings out of all three and sold less than 2.22.

At least it gave us a good idea of who's an idiot or not, if you like 3.33 then you're clearly incapable of understanding the difference between convoluted and complex. The original eva is wasted on people like that.

>>142985738
No_

>>142985775
It sold more than 1.0 though.

>>142985912
>selling more than the least anticipated, least advertised, first entry of a movie series
wew lad

>>142982799
How would you explain the general malice towards Shinji in 3.33?

>>142975436
2.22 is awful it's so vanilla all the characters personality's are completely different from the original and why was cooking dinner so important to Rei the whole movie is basically Asuka and Rei fighting over shinji

I'm a kaworufag so i enjoy 3.33

>>142985738
Yes_

>>142986163
In-universe: No explanation.
Actual explanation: Anno is butthurt about people liking Rei, and so Shinji needs to be symbolically punished for trying to save Rei.

>>142986196
You're furthering the stereotype that Kaworufags don't know shit about Evangelion.

>>142986196
What would you think about the lack of Kaworu saying "I love you" to Shinji in 3.33?

>>142986001
>least anticipated
>the revival of the Eva series since 1996
Yeah, no.

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>>142986284
Kaworu should love me, not Shinji.

>>142985693
>It didn't have to be this way either, if Anno wasn't such a freak.
If Anno wasn't such a freak, Evangelion would never have been anything other than an unremarkable mid-90s robot anime to begin with.

Personally, I did like 3.33, but I am not blind to its flaws. Neither am I blind to the flaws of 1.11 and 2.22, or the TV series and End of Evangelion, for that matter. Honestly, 3.33 is the weakest entry in the franchise so far... but something has to be, and that doesn't necessarily make it bad. (Neither does that necessarily make it any good, of course.)

>>142986267
Can people in these threads stop saying that Anno is butthurt about everything, I get the impression of a prolapse, one like the universe has never seen before.

>>142986295
Nah, yes.

It's the de facto least anticipated and advertised of all. It was a rehash and re-arranging of the first four episodes, offering virtually nothing of new content for fans.

Not only that, but the least popular part of the original.

>>142986371
What do you want us to tell you then? It's how it is, and if you want to be lied to then just make up something and don't ask in the first place.

>>142975436
>>142986345
https://youtu.be/gzHfPN2SC1I

>>142986364
>If Anno wasn't such a freak, Evangelion would never have been anything other than an unremarkable mid-90s robot anime to begin with.
There's plenty of remarkable robot anime in the 90's besides EVA. Besides, the question is rhetorical. We can't turn back time, only lament that Anno chose to go full freak after he made Evangelion. You'd think the billions of Yen would make him mellow out or something. Guess it only made him worse.

I don't see how you can like 3.33 if you fully understand it. It represents everything disgusting about being in a community such as this one, so it's far worse than just being the weakest entry.

>>142986371
What about pooper-peevered then? It's more correct to say that his otaku pride was severely hurt by how people reacted to Evangelion.

>>142977834
>gundamfags hate eva

wow who would have thought.

>>142986611
>There's plenty of remarkable robot anime in the 90's besides EVA.
Never said there wasn't. It's just that without Anno's putting all of his madness into it, Eva would not be remarkable.
>You'd think the billions of Yen would make him mellow out or something. Guess it only made him worse.
You'd only think that if you think bank balance is everything, which things like this and basically every celebrity meltdown ever go to show it isn't. At best, having money gives them the resources to sort out their issues. At worst, it just gives them enough rope...
>I don't see how you can like 3.33 if you fully understand it. It represents everything disgusting about being in a community such as this one
To a certain extent, that is why. I share a good chunk of Anno's (self-)loathing of otaku. Another factor is that Evangelion took robot anime to strange new places instead of being more of the same, and 3.33 takes Evangelion to strange new places instead of being the same thing as before but with better animation. I know that's what a lot of people were after, and just being something different doesn't make it good. But what I like is an emotional response, not an "objective" analytical conclusion, so it's not going to be logical. I like it because I like it.

>>142986371
Unfortunately it's the best explanation. There's not a thing about the Rebuilds it doesn't explain, as every single change from the originals makes sense in that context.

>>142975436
2.22 was the "Transformers" of anime. Mindless stupid action with flat unintresting characters and just stupid progression. This can be fun. But I'm not watching something Eva related for that kind of fun. If you want to watch a sequel to....Clannad but it suddenly becomes a Gundam show, it's kinda fucked

3.33 got partly back to NGEs roots regarding plot, progression and characters (at least for Shinji and Misato)

Asuka was already abandoned in 2.22. Yes, she had screentime but her character was fucking ruined

>>142987142
You say it's not logical, but it is. From you liking it, we can draw many logical conclusions about you yourself.

Such as, you don't understand what it is. Another possibility is that you do, but you are in fact the same disgusting problem with this type of community and therefore you always want something like 3.33.

2.22 was good.
Just that Shinji going gar out of nowhere didn't fit in with everything else. It was a good sequence, well-paired with Unit01 going berserk, just extremely out of character.

3.33 was just a mass of "why did nobody tell Shinji anything", but that's an age-old complaint at this point.

>>142987305
Opinion disregarded because it's clearly wrong. Evangelion was "the transformers of anime" for 13 episodes in the original, which is about half of the original.

2.22 is not even that much, and adding 1.11 it's half as well, so we're on schedule. Basically you're making shit up because you're retarded.

No one's character was ruined in 2.22. There were differences, but not differences that would spoil the character until the end. You can thank 3.33 for that.

>>142987342
>Another possibility is that you do, but you are in fact the same disgusting problem with this type of community and therefore you always want something like 3.33.
Like I said, I share Anno's (self-)loathing of otaku.
>>142987349
>Just that Shinji going gar out of nowhere didn't fit in with everything else. It was a good sequence, well-paired with Unit01 going berserk, just extremely out of character.
I disagree. At that point in the TV series, Shinji went on much the same rampage against that Angel. He just took it a little further in 2.22. And it's not out of nowhere; time and again Shinji does step up and do something most of us would run screaming from despite being scared shitless.

>>142987559
Do they sell Shinji cups?

>>142987572
>Like I said, I share Anno's (self-)loathing of otaku.
No no. That's the wrong way to put it. It's not a self-loathing that's the problem, it's a loathing of other otaku, or in more broad terms, an intolerance of other people's opinions - even if you know they're right.

It's a disgusting selfishness that only brings people down around you. Calling it "self-loathing" is skirting the problem entirely.

>>142987448
> No one's character was ruined in 2.22. There were differences, but not differences that would spoil the character until the end.

You really think Asukas character will be saved with what is left?

Or do you really think Asuka in the rebuilds is a good character?

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>>142987599
Yes.

>>142987731
Kek made by day.

>>142987349
> 3.33 was just a mass of "why did nobody tell Shinji anything", but that's an age-old complaint at this point.

And a stupid one. No-fucking-one considers their situation and what happend at the end of 2.22.

Keeping him confused was by far the most reasonable thing to do.

We even saw what happend, when Shinji got determined again at the end of 3.33

>>142979708
They should have just let Mari keep Unit 05 or take 04 and given Toji 03. It's not like you can have too many giant robots in your movie.

Haven't seen any of the rebuild movies. Is shinji still a faggot?

>>142987716
No, it's not a good character in Rebuild. It's a weak, shallow pandering character made for Asuka fans to feel good about their own fandom.

It's pathetic, yet the fans will eventually come to like it even more than they already do. To the fans, that may count as "saved".

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>>142987786
I wish they'd used the draft version of Eva 05 instead of the spider tank. They wanted to give it tank treads but thought it would be too similar to Shin Getter 03

>>142987676
>No no. That's the wrong way to put it. It's not a self-loathing that's the problem, it's a loathing of other otaku, or in more broad terms, an intolerance of other people's opinions - even if you know they're right.
I disagree with that. To begin with, I'm generally tolerant of other people's opinions - I'm fine with people not liking 3.33. You, on the other hand, seem determined to prove that it's wrong to like 3.33. (Apologies if I'm misreading you on that one, but plenty of people do try to say that other people are wrong for liking what they don't.) Also, sure I loathe other otaku, but what I loathe about them tends to be the same traits I can see in myself, and don't like in myself. Which, as far as I can tell, makes it some degree of self-loathing.

>>142987898
Wait... she was? I always thought she was pandering to the general audience. The ones that hated Asuka in NGE, because I'm a huge Asukafag and I fucking hate her rebuild version with a passion, because she is (like you said) a weak, shallow, pandering character

>>142988192
She's made to pander to Asuka fans, and to broaden the popularity of the character.

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>>142988031
Yeah it'd have to be a regular Eva to keep it around after the intro. It would have looked great. I really wish they'd had more Evas on the field for some of the fights.

>>142988148
Again, what you're doing is romanticizing it. Saying it's "self-loathing" when it's more other otaku you hate, is really just adopting a holier-than-thou attitude. This leads to criticizing other otaku for faults they don't have, but are really your own.

Hence you were able to entirely remove the unpleasant details surrounding your own loathsomeness. It's easy for anyone to claim self-loathing, but it's hard to admit to the specifics - to that you'll say
>I disagree with that.

3.33 is made on a loathsome premise, which is to attack other otaku (or really, the audience and not otaku in specific) while patting yourself on the back with flattery even you yourself know is untrue, just like the attacks. So to like 3.33 based on the idea that you share this form of "self-loathing", is really to admit being the biggest problem in this community yourself.

>>142988192
Arguably, the fact that you even thought there was something left to save and that you aren't deeply offended shows you the effectiveness. Part of the charm of Rebuild Asuka is that you're allowed to say "the original was better", while still enjoying the new version. Possibly, even projecting the new Asuka onto the old.

Regardless, the new Asuka is made to be popular not just for old Asuka fans, but for the new audience as well.

>>142987783
This is just me reading this, you may be right about keeping him confused, I just feel otherwise from what I know.

I was under the impression he only acted that way because nobody told him anything, WILLE generally being unreasonable. Given that WILLE members are passively hostile to him the moment he wakes up, he left WILLE because he didn't feel he was needed or wanted and nobody told him anything.

This does, in part, owe to Shinji's own character, when he sees Rei he decides to go with her. At this point, I figured Misato let him go because it would be better for Shinji to discover what happened while he's at NERV rather than explain with WILLE since Shinji can be stubborn, etc.

Not that I know what's going on at this point, but turning over a key player in the world's demise to the opposing faction seems like a bad idea in general. Debatable for me since I don't know what Misato knows.

Going from this, Shinji wasn't even aware of the consequences of his actions until Kaworu showed him. This renewed in him, with persuasion from Kaworu, to make things right. Coupled with the re-emergence of his father telling him he needs to pilot the robot, Shinji is determined to "make things right" which in turn triggers the fourth impact.

Am I not wrong to think this could have been avoided if WILLE just showed Shinji feeds or photos of what happened? Even if Shinji just mopes in his room for a long time after that.

It's hard to argue this since I don't know the full situation, if the 4th impact is required for WILLE's plans as well, etc.

>>142988519
> Arguably, the fact that you even thought there was something left to save

> and I fucking hate her rebuild version with a passion

I don't think her character can be saved. I just asked if you think it can be saved with what's left.

There is no build up that could pay off and starting to build something up now is just to late.

>>142975436
It was FUBAR to begin with.

>>142988687
>wasting your time reading into nonsense

>>142988766
I'm on /a/, I'm here to waste time in the first place.

>>142988427
I always thought it'd be interesting to see a war fought with Evas. Just forgo the whole angels and instrumentality thing and just have THOSE FUCKERS build a dozen or so evas and have the Main cast's side's dozen or so evas try and protect OUR SHIT.
I'd watch it.

>>142975534
How the fuck can Anno be forced to do anything? This is his own fucking studio

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>>142975436
I liked 2.22 because it was at least trying to do something new with the characters instead of just copy pasting the original Eva plot

>>142988687
I highly doubt anyone at Wille thought he could escape by own will as long as he is disconnected from Unit-01. So I guess noone really cared about his feelings.

Who could've anticipated that his will, helps Rei locating him on the ship (if it really did....it sure looked like it)?

I think they planned on kepping him chained until they somehow dealt with Nerv and the Evas

> Going from this, Shinji wasn't even aware of the consequences of his actions

And that is the core problem. Once he was set on a goal (in 2.22 and 3.33) he enters "lunatic mode" and he doesn't care about any consequences. He is willfully ignorant at these points. And with such a power potential....noone wants to let something like that roaming around

> Am I not wrong to think this could have been avoided if WILLE just showed Shinji feeds or photos of what happened?

Kaworu literally did that and we all know what happend after.

"There is a way to fix this? FUCK EVERYTHING AND LET'S DO THE THING"

Don't get me wrong. I think his reaction is extremely .....human, considering his situation. I really liked that about 3.33

>>142988836
I've always liked that idea as well. Supposedly that happens in Anima and it kinda happens in 3.0. It would have been cool to see more Evas in the 3.0 fight scenes. The climatic battle in central dogma was basically just a one on one between Shinji and Asuka.

>>142989102
They didn't even want him near 01 because they were afraid he would make it move just by being near it and Shinji only went for the easy fix because Fuyutsuki and Kaworu kept herding him that way, in no small part for Wile putting all the blame on him for what happened when the alternative was letting Zeruel just kill the whole of humanity

>>142988519
>Again, what you're doing is romanticizing it. Saying it's "self-loathing" when it's more other otaku you hate, is really just adopting a holier-than-thou attitude. This leads to criticizing other otaku for faults they don't have, but are really your own.
>Hence you were able to entirely remove the unpleasant details surrounding your own loathsomeness. It's easy for anyone to claim self-loathing, but it's hard to admit to the specifics - to that you'll say
>>I disagree with that.
Well, I don't think you've got a terribly accurate read of me, seeing as all you know of me is what I've said in a few sentences on an anonymous imageboard. I'll admit to myself the specifics of what I dislike about myself, but am generally unwilling to openly discuss the details with others. Even in an anonymous setting such as this. If you take this to mean that I really am unwilling to admit specifics at all, well, fair enough.

>3.33 is made on a loathsome premise, which is to attack other otaku (or really, the audience and not otaku in specific) while patting yourself on the back with flattery even you yourself know is untrue, just like the attacks. So to like 3.33 based on the idea that you share this form of "self-loathing", is really to admit being the biggest problem in this community yourself.
That entire argument is built on the premise of what Anno was thinking when he made the film. Which, unless he said it was this in an interview, is just some armchair psychoanalysis done by the audience. It's an idea that's certainly plausible, but even if Anno was thinking "fuck the audience, I'll do something to piss them off", I still don't think that was the only or even most significant reason for what he did with the movie.
Besides, the otaku self-loathing thing is only a part of what I see in the movie (and a minor part, at that), not the entirety of it. I could go through the movie with a fine-tooth comb analysing what I did and didn't like, but I don't expect it'd help

>>142989102
The difference I was thinking was kind of here:
>Shinji is told the consequences of his actions, and wants to make things right.

>WILLE doesn't want Shinji near EVAs, or anything really, for that matter.

>NERV orders Shinji to once again, get in the robot.

You might be right in Shinji would try to fix things either way, but without being actually placed into a position to actually have the power to change something, could have been avoided, which brings me to question if the Fourth Impact was necessary anyways, and the nature of WILLE itself.

I hate how 4.44 will be set after the events of 3.33 in a post third impact setting

What I loved most about 2.22 and the NGE series as a whole is the casual banter between characters and events in their day-to-day lives

>>142989763
Certainly the casual banter and daily lives aspect was one of the good points to Eva, but by this stage of the TV series those elements had mostly fallen to the wayside anyway.

>>142988929
He probably had no choice after running into a wall, sorta-speak.

I like the revelations in 3.0.

>>142983268

B U T T B L A S T E D

>>142990750
What are you talking about?

>>142991739
Deadlines, once you decide to make a movie, and make promotional materials (a promise that the movie will be made) whatever contracts you make ie (theaters) or other business related matters must be met.

Contracts for 2.22 were made before 1.11 was released in theaters.
>He probably had no choice after running into a wall, sorta-speak.
Anno had to stop developing the script and continue making the movie.

4.44 had no such contract.

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>>142987731
oh no anon no

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Don't mind me, just dumping a bunch of completely unrelated and forgotten stuff

4.44 bingo?

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>>142992304
Some predictions/hypothetical spoilers made in the threads just before 3.33 aired

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6 more, and 1 special image that everyone would be wise to follow through

>>142992079
This is bullshit and you know it, I worked in Cinemark and we never did contracts before a movie was released, the most we did was secure a high profile movie was going to be released in the cinema, you're just making excuses the complete and bizarre change in plot that was 3.0

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>>142992511
>mfw Asuka gives birth to Rei

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And here it is, better follow this image or risk wanting to become an hero

>>142987559
This is the real reason why 3.33 shit so hard over Shinji. Khara wanted to make Eva-related works without Shinji for selling more merchandise and if Anno didn't abandon the project for Godzilla, probably Shinji would already redeem his sins, if you know what I mean

>>142983392

Gendo does look better with a beard on him.
Kaji has a FUCKING PONYTAIL. If you are going to change anything about your image there's your fucking first priority.

14 year old girls lusting after you shouldn't be your measure for esthetics, they know fuck all.

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>>142992651
Though sometimes I wonder whether it's better to just read the spoilers rightaway

>>142975436
2.22 was far from perfect, but 3.33 was really the smelliest piece of shit that came from Anno's ass

>>142992834
I don't know, Gendo has a bit of an Abraham Lincoln thing going on. His face is just a bit too gaunt and thin without the beard.

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>>142992179
We know this already

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We'll never see these cuties, aren't we.

>>142993137
That's what i said, he looks better with a beard on him.

>>142993538
My bad. You're right about Kaji too. People who can't grow a beard, but still refuse to shave their stubble bother me to no end.

>>142992651

Kawrou?

>>142993681
Kowaroru

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>>142993200
Pick any four you like.

>>142994296
But they have no bodies.

>>142982799
Anon it's only hal-truths if he doesn't believe it himself. The shocking thing is SURPRISINGLY Kaworu is not the sharpest tool in and Gendo/SEELE rused him the entire time.

Hell he still didn't why two longinus were a thing and no Cassius.

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>>142995496
It's not his fault, Kaworu doesn't have the fruit of knowledge because he's an angle.

>>142995496
It's manipulative no matter what since he still believes he has more information than he shares and literally all of it would be relevant to the decision he's leading Shinji to the whole time, he's just also incompetent at it compared to Gendo.

>>142993681
Kaworu

>>142998744
Cowroo

>>142978101

>gunbuster
>2/10

Oh fuck off

>>142976391
When will this deluded fucker go away from the threads so we can talk in non-insane terms

>>142996042
I disagree. Kaworu teuly thinks he knows what's going on and is doing what he thinks is best for Shinji. The problem is he's a fucking idiot

It is not like when Fuyutsuki intentionally reveals reis origins to further Gendos plans for getting Yui.

>>142999630
It is exactly like Fuyutsuki blowing his mind, Kaworu convinces him everything is his fault with an interpretation of the artistic intent of Third Impact without telling him a thing about events or more than names for anything he's looking at. There isn't a rational appeal made to get Shinji into the robot, there's a multi-stage plan to drive him to breakdown and then promise him a time machine and only Ayanamibot could participate without noticing.

>>143000271
He doesn't say it's his fault, he says his actions caused the impact and that the lilin place the blame on him.
There'd be no point in telling him about the events in detail and all the convoluted shit about impacts and instrumentality, Shinji already can hardly understand what's going on.
He cuts to the chase about what needs to be done, and as far as he knows, will be done successfully. Until of course he finds out Gendo was two steps ahead of him the entire time.

>>142975436
What the fuck is up with this thread? Even evageeks is better than all this shitposting.

>>142988031
I don't like the quad legs so much, but that 05 can't operate anywhere but inside Bethany and is sort of jury-rigged together is everything I like about it. The all-prosthetic limbs make more sense to me even with it being presumably younger than 03 and 04 but working earlier.

>> 142976391
Year can do whatever he wants with His Story, but When a narrator puts an important premise, and then denies everything someone feels betrayed.

It is not that you have to explain everything, but a good storyteller must still comply with certain rules, maintain a minimum level of consistency with what has Already Been Told.

If Misato passes from supporting Shinji at the end of 2.0 to hate him, the narratove must justify this step, Because the characters' actions are Often the thing That look more for spectators to understand situation.
The curse Eve is one thing totally gratuitous, That has no basis or preparation. Put a bomb around Shinji neck and watch him angrily way another gratuitous thing (and hypocritical) from Misato.

Perhaps Anno had this intention from the beginning, but as a viewer I can not help but have the impression that the whole story Has Been changed at the last minute only to generate surprise and confusion. Stories have their own architecture. You can not write at random, although today there are white knights that say the contrary.

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>tfw instead of spending money redoing episode 16's animation for BD, making an OVA series about NERV fucking around or whatever, a slice of life comedy series like the end of 26, or ANYTHING fucking interesting we got:
>a literal recap film of the first arc
>a fanservice-laden recap film of basically the action arc, with Shinji finally doing what fans wanted him to do in the most unsubtle way possible
>an ENTIRE FUCKING FILM that basically does exactly what episode 24 did in 22 minutes but far less effectively
>??? most likely a shitty imitation of EoE but where Anno fails to deliver any sort of closure to the series as a whole or to the rebuild narrative that he painted himself in a corner with in 3.33

Fuck, I'm mad.

>>143002247
I always wanted a series about Gendo in the college years, going to bars and picking fights. Ending when he chills the fuck out after meeting Yui.

>>143002744
I don't want prequels from Japanese Lucas. Just end the fourth movie like the previous three have with him winning and getting everything he wanted.

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i just started watching the original one.

when do it get good? i'm currently at ep 9 and it's boring as fuk.

>>143002978
Like half of it is boring MotW shit. Maybe after the twentieth episode does it pick up

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>>142975436
2.22 was complete pandering shit. I bet you're a Reifag. That's the only reason someone would like this movie

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>>142976391
Syck my dick Reifag. Suck it hard

>>142993200
The top one on the right has Rei Q's overlapping bangs

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>>143002978

>>143003148
So the problem is just this? A waifu war between Raifags and Asukafags?

>>143003148
>>143003176
Ausukafags and Reifags need to both go fuck themselves. I like both girls, and faggots who think they have to obsesses over one while bashing people who like the other pure cancer.

What are some good romance doujins. H or non-H, doesn't matter.

>>143003646
>What are some good romance doujins.
The yaoi ones.

>>143003642
Pretty much.

>>143003646
Anything by mantou, Kuro Tengu,or bijutsubu. The Eden series is pretty nice if you're a Reifriend.

>>143003642
Mainly. Personally I don't care much about the waifushit but I still preferred 3.0 over 2.0 because the tone was closer to the original series. 2.0 felt like a fanstory.

Some anons proposed the theory that 2.0 was done like this in purpose to bait the fans into a story that felt like they wanted (haremshit) and then fucked them hard with 3.0 with a movie that heavily showed Kaworu and Shinji, with the other girls barely present on screen and not really in character or were they ?

>>143003807
Kaworu x Shinji is the most popular Eva ship in Japan, so I don't really think it was a case of fucking them over.

>>143003865
Source ?

>>143004037
Common knowledge.

>>143003784
thanks

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>>142975436
>Perfect

>>143004117
Your ass is not common knowledge anon

>>143004214
Fanart, doujin, and advertisement numbers didn't come from my ass.

>>143003784
Looking at Eden, holy shit this hentai dialogue.
"Shinji's dick is rampaging inside of me!"
I'm laughing too hard to get hard.

>>143004264
So give a reliable source proving Kaworu/shinji is the most popular ship in japan then. I'm genuinely interested now

>>143004037
Polls of fujo ghettos.

>2.22 was fucking perfect
Only someone who didn't like the original NGE can say that. 2.22 was something completely different.

>>143004370
What would you dictate a reliable source?

>>142978318
Please walk into traffic

>>143004444
Not your ass

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Why does every Eva thread have to be...like this?

Fuck you /a/.

>>142992544
This was almost going to be correct.

>>143004494
Hoe do you want your Eva threads?

>>143004476
Good thing I didn't take anything out from there then.

>>143004537
From where then ? We're not going anywhere anon. Please do some effort if you want to convince me

>>143004532
Without people arguing for a change.

Seriously, look at these posts
>>142987342
>>142987349
>>142987572
>>142987676
>>142988148
>>142988519
>>142989478
>>142989626

In every single thread there are faggots like this arguing over inane things.

>>143004557
I already said >Fanart, doujin, and advertisement numbers

I don't really care about convincing you or not, I'm just stating what is common knowledge.

>>143004583
And where could I find a quantifiable measure of said indicators ?

>>143004609
Pixiv for the fanart stats, Toranora for the doujin stats, and the NewEva blog for the advertisements.

>>143004576
>Without people arguing for a change
Do you just, not go to any threads on this site? There's always arguing, everywhere.
But I get what you mean. Occasionally we'll have a thread where the waifufags are all asleep and we have something we can all agree on.
Like anima's ridiculous centaur Eva gear. Someone post that, so we can all laugh at it.

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>>143004690
Got you covered

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>>143004576
Someone is wrong on the internet.jpg

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>>143004690

>>143004814
What bothers me more than the horse butt on this thing is the fucking HIGH HEELS. It's a giant cyborg made to fight giant monsters, not strut on a catwalk.

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>>142975436
Movies are sequels calling it last movie will tie it together.

>>142975436
At least we got something new. 1 and 2 were basically what we had in the series just with worse animation,coloring, characterization and story.

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>>143005137
The Evas always have weird looking feet. The originals have sneakers, these have feels, Unit 13 has those weird elf shoes

>>143005137
It's fine because the horse butts are jetpacks.

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>>143005270
>These have feels

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Step aside, best Eva coming through!

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>>143005550
The true Evanstallion.

>>143003646
Try Re-Take. It's a 10/10 Asuka doujin.

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>>143005702
>Try Re-Take
Remember, Germany is the worst place in the world, where the Germans have the fetishism for shit and street stink of Alchool.

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>Asuka predicted transforming Evas, the 500 Type Eva Shinkansen, and see through plugsuits in 1996

>>143003807
>I still preferred 3.0 over 2.0 because the tone was closer to the original series.

The tone is the same in all three movies. 2.0 is not so 'different from the original material. 2.0 incorporates the "best and bright" time of Eva. Shinji begins to gain confidence, he save the day against Sahaquiel and Asuka e Rei slowly start to care about him. Exactly as in the tv show, he can not do anything against Bardiel and runs away just to return in episode 19 determined as fuck.

The differences with the 2.0 movie are minimal and focus all at the end.
Asuka is less psychopathic. Rei is more active and Shinji finds the strength to react, rather than being saved form Eva beast form.

I would have preferred that Koji suffer his fate, it was a good twist to prepare the viewer for the next, but Rebuild 2.0 is fully complies with expected tone in that middle part of story.

But 3.0 skips too many things, imho.

>>143006905
the jump from 2.0 to 3.0 is like going from mid series right to End of Envangelion. It's not that the ending of 2.0 is bad, or that 3.0 is bad in itself either. It just doesn't make any fucking sense without being able to see the 14 years in between.

>>143006564
Meanwhile there have been like 4 slice of life school comedy Evas and none of them had the thugdere Asuka, it's a travesty.

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>>143006905
I was hyped to see what this mother fucker was going to do since it effectively replaced the Eva series. Instead we have to play Sherlock Holmes and try to piece it together after the fact.

The next movie will probably have a plot dump somewhere in the first half hour but it would have been much more exciting to see it as it happened.

>>143007126
>It just doesn't make any fucking sense without being able to see the 14 years in between.

That my point too. i'm pretty okey with 3.0 , but i want to see the missing 14 years.