Dragon Ball Super Powerlevels

>>141442930
You're assuming they're multiples and not just set tiers.

Goku was strong enough to qualify for Tier 6, but Beerus is in Tier 10.

Assuming a Yamcha is Tier 2, being generous, it would seem weird to suggest a Super Saiyan God is only 3 times stronger than a Yamcha, wouldn't it?

So multiplying Goku's strength by 10 may not even bring him up to 7, let alone 10 and above.

It is unstable though.

>>141442930
If SSJ Red was Goku at 100% and Beerus only fought at 80% it could be assumed that 4 tiers is that 20% that Beerus has over Goku.

>>141443016
If that was the case then why did Whis say that if Vegita and Goku in Super Saiyan Blue form worked together they could defeat Beerus?

How strong is Black Goku?

>>141443193
Strong enough to rob a bank.

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>>141443193

That's just some shit Toriyama said offhandedly.
The show clearly appears to be moving away from that powerlevel nonsense.
Most fights so far in Super have been resolved by gimmicks or "clever" tactics, as opposed to pure powerlevels like in DBZ.

I think they are not meant to surpass Beerus or Whis in strength.

>>141443368
But the creator of the show said it himself. Clearly a 60 powerlevel could defeat a 10 powerlevel character regardless of skill.

>>141442930
Wasn't Beerus only using like 2% of his power according to a convo between him and Wis after he battled Goku?

>>141443480
I thought it was 80%

>>141443480
He used 80% at the end.

>>141442930
>>141443164

That scale was from a post-BoGs interview.

Super, on the other hand, had a line comparing Goku and Vegeta to a tree, while Beerus was that giant tower in the middle of the planet.

Toriyama has also said in a recent interview that right now he has no plans for Goku surpassing Beerus.

>>141443164
Fusion maybe? Either way, that line was cut from Super too.

>>141443368
>>141443591
Don't bother this guy is retarded, he's been spamming this for a while now and won't listen to reason.

>>141443725
>Won't listen to reason.
>Currently has more mathematical proof then you.

>>141443591
It is still in the manga. Manga > Super cannon wise.

>>141443725
I think Stamina would be 215.

>>141443819
Isn't it only in the RoF tie in manga? I don't think it's in the Super manga proper.

>>141443930
No. It's in both.

>>141443930
>>141443819
Also, if you're going only by the movies/Super manga, then SSJ Blue might be weaker than SSJ God. It's only established to be stronger in the anime.

>>141443983
I just checked chapter 5 and couldn't find that line.

>>141442930
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-super-manga-vol-1-tori-toyo-interview-web-version/

>Toriyama:
>Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.

Fuck off.

>>141443591
>he has no plans for Goku surpassing Beerus.
This annoys me somehow. I thought I don't like the 'MC is the strongest' concept, but I suppose for Goku it's an exception.

>>141442930
>Beerus is a 10, and Goku is a 15
Is this a typo? Because it doesn't make sense.

>>141443141
Didn't Beerus lie about that?

>>141444301
Typo. 15 is whis.

>people still using bullshit numbers that AT pulled out of his ass as a joke

There will be a battle among the Gods of Destruction surpassing time and space. Can't wait for it.

>>141444213
The only arc where Goku was the strongest at the end was the Frieza arc. In the Saiyan, Cell, and Buu arcs there was someone stronger than him.

Why the fuck did they make Monaka weak?

Jesus, it would be MUCH more satisfying if he actually was the strongest in the universe, but no, we get this filler bullshit.

God I fucking hate super.

>>141443193
The strongest of his kind obviously.

To me, it looks like Beerus was pretty at ease when he defeated Goku in BoG. I don't think it's accurate to say Beerus at 80% = BoG Goku at 100%.

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>>141444911
Many things were a letdown about that tournament. Besides Monaka being space Satan, Buu goes down to a gag, and Piccolo is outright told he's cannon fodder.

>>141448066
frost had to be stronger than frieza with out training right? I mean piccilo should have wiped the floor with frost since he was able to take on 17

>>141448066
Quit bitching, Piccolo had one of the better fights in this U7 vs U6 tournament using various cool abilities like his stretchy arms and the multi form, breaks Vados's barrier which tanked causal blasts from God of destruction Champa, even Frost himself says if Piccolo landed his Makankosappo he would have won.

>>141443164
Source?

>>141442930
>Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken x10 greater than 60?
no, because thats not how it works
Kaioken x 10 increase ki output by 10
that doesnt translate into overall power by 10 except in fairly low cases.
all indication is that it added 10 x Goku's base, not total

>>141448658
Yeah. The fact that Goku bothered turning SSJ against him shows that Frost is relatively high level, just not God level (Remember, Goku's base was greatly boosted after absorbing the power of SSJ God).

>>141447339
Well, in Super, we know that he wasn't using his full power against Goku because there's a scene afterwards where it's pointed out that he was lying about how much power he was using. I guess something similar could be happening in the original BoGs, and the whole "I ran out of energy" thing was always a lie, with Super just making it more obvious, considering how he didn't really seem tired at all.

>>141444911
Because Super is Goku and Vegeta show, and knowing Toriyama, he wouldn't let anyone asides Beerus and Whis (for the moment) be stronger than them in their Universe.

>>141449429
Remember that Goku's new base is Super Saiyan Red because he absorbed the God Ki.

>>141443016

Apologists pretending Akira's numbers were some sort of secret code never fail to amuse me. What a crock of stupid shit.

And even if it wasn't, it would mean Goku in BoG was way to weak to feasibly entertain Beerus, making the point of the movie moot and the resolution a lie.

>>141449429
>Kaioken x 10 increase ki output by 10
>that doesnt translate into overall power by 10
Yes it does. It literally fucking does.

>>141449429
>>141451792
And even if it didn't. Toriyama retconned his story so their powerlevel is literally entirely dependent on their Ki (no ki, they die to a shitty ring or get hurt by rocks), so more ki output = more powerlevel.

>>141449524
>>141448658

If Goku has God Ki now, and Super Saiyan Blue is Super Saiyan with god Ki, what the fuck is his normal super saiyan?

How much of a boost is each? I mean Super Saiyan used to be 50x, but right now it'd be difficult to say it's even a 2x boost.

And at 2x boost he's still a 12 to Beerus' 10. And this not even counting SSB and SSBKaiokenX10

>>141442930
You're making a lot of assumptions, just like those people who assumed speed, and strength multiplied with Power Levels on a 1 to 1 scale

>>141448066
Monaka is not space Satan. He's not even close to similar.

>>141442930
I give up trying to follow power creeps. To me, Goku will become stronger than Beerus once Toriyama will state it as fact.

>>141451966
You're trying to find a loophole by saying Goku's power and speed are unbalanced, but you and I both know he'd never make that mistake.

>>141452041
It's pretty pathetic that we have to rely in what the authors tell us because they're utterly incapable of showing us and honestly don't seem to be able to tell us without contradicting themselves, either.

>>141452078
It's our fault for taking his shit too seriously.

>>141452144
Expecting a bare minimum of consistency isn't really taking things too seriously.

>>141452177
You got me there.

>>141451825
I don't think you quite get it.
I said overall power
not powerlevel
the measurement the scouters took was based on how much ki was coming OUT of the person. That's why whenever they did attacks it jumped up.
That's also why Kaioken was dangerous. It allowed Goku's natural power to flow out faster. That's what enhanced his performance.
Super Saiyan altered the body so that it could maintain a much higher ki level. That's why the first jump was 50 (Toriyama said in an interview, the multiplier fell much lower over time. This makes it pretty clear that the new transformations allowed their base forms to advance quickly)
God Ki is keeping all of the power inside. That means higher power without rampant ki spewing out.
That's why it's "calm"
what Kaioken did was ramp up the ki he releases.
But the God Ki isn't RELEASED ki, it's internalized.
So he was only multiplying a small amount of his overall power.

>>141451891
Normal Super Saiyan is, well, normal super saiyan.
Super Saiyan Blue uses the God Ki to contain more of the ki.
Regular super saiyan pretty much ruins the effect of the god ki, since it forces the ki out.

>>141452955
>That's why it's "calm"
That's another fucking stupid plot point, since it seems the writers forgot the Cell Games.

And this fucking bullshit about how SS1 has energy drain, when he literally stayed transformed for months with no ill effects.

>>141452055
No. What?

I'm talking specifically about how people think things like: Because Goku was this fast at a PL of 1000, then he must be 9 times as fast at 9000. When every event in DBZ pretty much showed that increase in speed and power with ki levels wasn't evenly scaled.

Especially when you have Goku working out wiht 400 tons at the end of the manga, and no one being close to the speed of light despite what people calculated their actual speeds to be.

>>141453042
>And this fucking bullshit about how SS1 has energy drain, when he literally stayed transformed for months with no ill effects.

It was 7 days. And that's why they did it.

>>141453124
>It was 7 days. And that's why they did it.
No, it was since Gohan turned super saiyan, which was 6 months into their year in the time room.

They ELIMINATED said supposed energy drain and the mood of SS. So it makes zero sense that that's the excuse for why he couldn't so Kaioken as SS, but can as SSB.

So when does Ariel show up?

>>141453192
>No, it was since Gohan turned super saiyan, which was 6 months into their year in the time room.

You positive about that? I can't look up the manga scans online right now.

>>141451825
>Toriyama retconned his story so their powerlevel is literally entirely dependent on their Ki (no ki, they die to a shitty ring or get hurt by rocks)

It's been that way since Namek. Vegeta literally explains this to Krillin

>>141453335
To be exact. He decided on it some time after Gohan went SS, on the day he discovered Vegeta and Trunk's SS+ transformation. It's still months, and even if it wasn't, seven days of perma SS should tell you all you need to know about it's supposed "energy drain".

>>141453372
>It's been that way since Namek.
No, in namek there was still a balance, their bodies were powerful to begin with, ki or no ki. Sure, lowering his guard completely allowed Krilln to kill him, but Krillin was still pretty powerful in Namek.

Why do Vegeta and Goku bother doing pushups and shit if Ki is 99.9% of their power now?

>>141453616
Same reason they never do squats and oats.

>>141453633
I always figured they do, but offscreen. Those rectus and vastus didn't pump themselves.

Why the fuck do any of you faggots still care about Dragonball!? Even Toriyama doesn't give a shit

>>141450516
>>141448066

My main issue is that this show had the potential to be great. If they had just gotten a good writer, with Toriyama supervising, it could have been great.

So many interesting plot points executed with the grace of a mentally impaired quentin tarantino.

>But anon it's a kids show, it's supposed to be childish

Motherfucker, DB came out in the fucking 80's. Most of its fans are in their early 20's to late 30's. Fuck outta here with this lazy, money-grabbing coup.

Mathematically Goku is superior to both Whis and Beerus. This is simply because Toriyama is a shithead when it comes to not contradicting his own story.

>>141451825
>retconned
If it was retconned, then it happened years ago.

>>141453748
>Even Toriyama doesn't give a shit
Citation needed

>>141453330
>Ariel
Arale didn't appear in the preview of the incoming episode of this week, but that doesn't mean she won't appear.