Can Shirou kill Shikis?

Which Shirou?

I want Shirou to drown in his ideals and die.

I want to have a threesome with ko-gil and shota shirou

>>141417104
He can kill them because they aren't immortal and they die when they are killed but he can't beat them in fight. Well at least T.Shiki, I'm not sure if Ryougi have stats to keep up with swordspam

>>141419374
Fuck off Archer

>>141419374
Shirou pls

I've never gotten the Shiki can't kill servants meme. Killing the originals of the servants located in the throne of heroes is unlikely, since he's not attacking those. But surely he could be able to kill the current incarnation of servants right in front of him, right?

Shiki can kill Shirou

>>141419406
When did Shirou become attractive?

>>141419406

>autistically follow ideal that will probably leave you in despair.
>let go of ideal, but basically sacrifice hundreds by not killing your girlfriend when you know you could have stopped it and chose not to.
Why can't Shirou be normal?

I think the real question is can Angry Manjew kill Shikis?

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>>141419417
>shota shirou
Good taste

>>141420803
There is a fan book called Type-Moon Complex X where the Misaki crew go to Fuyuki. This is where the running joke/meme comes from

http://imgur.com/a/cqzl3

>>141420990
When he took his shirt off.

>>141419374
Fuck off, Archer.

>>141419417
>>141421064
got you senpai
https://twitter.com/mn_zaka/status/730004290467561472
>>141421020
>let go of ideal, but basically sacrifice hundreds by not killing your girlfriend when you know you could have stopped it and chose not to.
this is why sakura is shit and normal end is the best for HF

>>141421448
>normal end is the best for HF
This, and I don't even hate Sakura.
It's just fits the story much, much better than the "True" ending.

>>141421020
>>141421419
>>let go of ideal, but basically sacrifice hundreds by not killing your girlfriend when you know you could have stopped it and chose not to.
This literally never happens, nice headcanon:

Nobody dies after Shirou decides not to kill Sakura. The only ones that die after that are Shinji, Kirei and Zoken.

Next time read the VN instead of reading the Wikia and pretending to know what you're talking about.

>>141421475
fuck off wormslut, she killed also lots of other peope faggot

>>141421448
>but basically sacrifice hundreds by not killing your girlfriend when you know you could have stopped it and chose not to.

The people that got killed by the Shadow were all BEFORE that. Jesus /a/ with all your preaching about secondaries and "read the VN xD" you sure as hell have never read it.

>>141417104
>>141419374
>>141417104
fuck off with that reddit tier meme pic
>1.pic is out of context
>2.pic is the shitty translation of crunchyshit

but i forgot 4chan is reddit 2.0 who can't use a fucking brain

>>141417104
Does Shirou have power over tautologies?

>>141421511
>fuck off wormslut, she killed also lots of other peope faggot
Except that doesn't happen after Shirou spares her, it happens before.

Again, next time read the VN instead of taking shit from the wikia and pretending you've ever read it.

>>141421475
Are you sure? Because I'm pretty sure I remember a scene where Shirou was watching the news and memorising the names of the victims that died, like he was trying to atone for his sin.
The point is that Shirou was completely prepared to do it, and chose that over the death of one person (Sakura).
He clearly feels guilty about it and refers to it as a "sin" many times too.

And there's nothing wrong with that. Honestly, if it wasn't for Shirou being prepared to sacrifice the many for the sake of one, he'd have no development from Fate Shirou, who wanted to save all without facing the reality that it wasn't possible.

>>141421511
>she
>The shadow is Sakura

Level E reader. Well, that's implying you've actually read it, which we all know you didn't.

The Shadow is AM taking Sakura's body when she goes to sleep, but you knew that right? because everyone that's not a secondary knows it.

>>141421552
To add to >>141421563
Direct quite from NLBW scene
>The atonement lies here. I betrayed myself and sacrificed many lives

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>>141417104

>>141421563
>Are you sure? Because I'm pretty sure I remember a scene where Shirou was watching the news and memorising the names of the victims that died, like he was trying to atone for his sin.
Doesn't happen after he spares her. Irrelevant.

>>141421588
Doesn't happen after he decides not to kill her. Irrelevant.

And those lives were all but innocent so who cares, AM wasn't killing good people, it killed rapists and whatnot, we literally see it in the interludes. Zoken is the one that kills innocents.

>>141421643
>Doesn't happen after he decides not to kill her
>NLBW
Wat.

>>141421688
He's talking about the past you fucking retard.

>>141421762
But he's missing the point.
The point is still that Shirou himself believes he has "sacrificed many lives", which is as good as it being true as far as Shirou's morality and ideals are concerned. It makes so difference to that if people did die or not.

>>141421809
That's because people don't understand Shirou's character

In the fucking beginning of the story when you go to school with Sakura and see the police cars, then Issei tells you that people were killed by some sort of bladed weapon and he freaks out, he blames himself for not being able to help even though he wants to be a seigi no mikata.

>>141417104
>Self Insert vs Self Insert

>>141421587
no
the Shadow is acting based on Sakura's subconsciousness

Avenger doesn't have a self of its own. It always needs a host.

>>141421643
Are you baiting?
It does happen after you decide to spare her.

After a while Shirou becomes so conflicted that you get the choice to try and kill Sakura in her sleep, except that if you do that Rider kills you instead.

Shiki is inhuman he can easily slice shirou down

>>141422130
>no
>the Shadow is acting based on Sakura's subconsciousness
Except it's literally said that the shadow takes control when she goes to speel.

And do you know what subconsciousness is? Because it seems that you don't.

>>141421643
> And those lives were all but innocent so who cares, AM wasn't killing good people, it killed rapists and whatnot, we literally see it in the interludes.

yes in that interlude the Shadow kills rapists and killers.

next time Rin and Shirou discover that it ate a whole street's worth of people..

>>141422195
>Shiki
>Inhuman

I don't think he'd enjoy being called that.

>>141422215
It was obviously a street full of only rapist killers, anon.

>>141422203

part of Sakura wishes that Saber wouldn't be around. guess what? the Shadow kills her

part of Sakura wishes that Shirou would be too injured to continue fighting. guess what? the Shadow takes one of his arms

Sakura herself says that part of her found the "dreams" pleasant.

and by HA we know that AM doesn't have a personality of its own. It needs a host to function.

>>141421548
You should stop projecting Shirou or you'll deplete your mana.

>>141421548
>1.pic is out of context
>2.pic is the shitty translation of crunchyshit
I think everyone in this thread knows that.
What's your point?

>>141421064
This has an anime?

>>141422416
He means OP can't use a fucking brain, got it?

Even Souichirou can kill Shikis, with the help of Medea's magic of course.
https://youtu.be/0plnjolg53A?t=1m17s

>>141417104
Toono Shiki, Toono SHIKI, Toono Shiki awakened to his family lineage, fake Toono Shiki, DID Ryougi Shiki, notDID Ryougi Shiki, VOID Shiki or another Shiki I forgot?

>>141419374
Go to bed, Archer.

Why is Archer such a fucking retard? Even if he ended up killing Shirou in F/SN, he's still going to be a CG, since the Throne or wherever Alaya keeps the guardians is outside of space time.

>>141417104
If at his lowest power, he could kill Tohno SHIKI and Ryougi Shiki, but could only beat Tohno Shiki at full strength. Void beats all.

>>141426079
Because Archer can't into lack of causality.

I am that pleb so please enlighten me.

Which shirou is the strongest...

>>141426931
HF Shirou if it's single combat and he's ready to burn himself out. Overall it will be UBW Shirou.

>>141427100
Could Fate Shirou keep pulling out Caliburn, or was it a one time thing? Because I can see Fate Shirou just master using Caliburn

>>141426079
Because he's desperate to kill himself anon. Facts don't matter, he has no other purpose left so he'll try even if it's impossible.

>>141426931
>>141427100
Is there anything Fate Shirou could win at apart from being the worst Shirou?

>>141421552
>>141421587
Oh wow, you're so unique anon-chan! Not, fucking kill yourself, worthless garbage, people like you are the reason why the F/SN "fanbase" and /a/ is so shit nowadays.

>>141428907
Getting best girl

>>141429721
Well, he did probably get with Rin in LONDON sometime after the ending, but UBW Shirou also got that.

Why are some Sakurafags so obsessed with denying that Sakura did anything wrong whatsoever?
She'd be a shit-tier bland character if she was truly completely passive and blameless in the whole thing.

How many Shiki's are there?

>>141426931
Toshirou

Worst shounen protagonist of all time. Can't believe people like this asshole.

>>141429824
>Well, he did probably get with Rin in LONDON sometime after the ending

>This delusion

Rinfags are the worst.

>>141431432
>Shounen protagonist
I don't see any Shounen mcs in this thread, who are you talking about?

>>141429872
Even Shirou knew that what she did was wrong. He just loved her in spite of it.

>>141429872
>She'd be a shit-tier bland character if
She already is anon

>>141431677
Well, she'd be much more shit

>>141431628
Didn't he even tell her he knows she's a terrible person at some point?

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>>141426931
Big Brother Shirou

>>141431540
>Shirou
>Not Shonuen MC

Top kek, anon.

>>141433518
Where's the shounen?

>>141426931
Unfortunately >>141433232 is right, Prisma Ilya alternate universe Shirou is the strongest...he won the grail war by himself

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>>141433718
>Unfortunately
Why shouldn't the Shirou who's living his life correctly be the strongest?

>>141433898
He's fanfiction tier

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>>141433938
>I don't like thing
Good to know

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Designated Fate shitposting thread?

Who is best king and why is it Saber?

>>141419374
Why so harsh?

>>141417104
The real question is. Can Shiki rape Shirou? Because we know he can rape true ancestors.

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>>141417104

you sure?

I like Kirei.

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>>>/v/

Shirou has a legit insane level of skill with a bow, we just never see him use it in the VN because he doesn't know how to trace swords as arrows like Archer can, so he can't even hurt Servants with them.

I don't think Shirou could take on Tohno in a straight fight unless he's got Archer's arm which makes him posthuman, but if he attacked Tohno from a long range with guns or bows he could definitely take him out because he was hitting Berserker's vital points with the arrows he used in the Saber vs. Berserker final battle in Fate, and Berserker was moving at insane velocities.

Shirou has amazing eyes and might even be able to catch Tohno if Tohno attempts to assassinate him, but once Tohno is in close, it's probably over and done regardless.

tl;dr Tohno wins in close combat, Shirou wins at distance combat

Ryougi isn't post-human, but I imagine she could still kick his ass in a sword fight since her mystic eyes would deal with his conceptual weapons just fine. Void Shiki would tear Shirou a new one of course. Shirou sniping would still take out Ryougi handily, don't know how Void would deal with a long distance opponent though.

tl;dr Shirou wins at distance combat again except maybe against Void who is kind of bullshit in every regard

>>141421524
He didn't give Seiba Avalon, which as Fate showed, could have easily cured her (just like it protected him). For that alone, HF Shirou is irredeemable and must die.

>>141429876
Shiki, Shiki and SHIKI

>>141429876
Tohno SHIKI, Nanaya Shiki, Ryougi Shiki (female personality), Ryougi SHIKI (male personality), and Ryougi Shiki (body's personality/in between personality)

>>141421448
>normal end
You mean SLH

>>141440724
Since you're trying to be serious about this, then you should know Nasu already answered it. The two suffer mutual defeat. Shiki's head explodes and Shirou kills himself trough mana exhaustion.

The story starts changing once you look at different, stronger versions of Shiki and Shirou, and start removing restrictions. The ability to kill anything and the ability to create and use Noble Phantasms are both pretty strong. A lot of the time it'd probably be a pretty fair toss up.

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>>141445800
I'd have to agree with that anon. Shiki is ridiculously fast. Shirou is well above human ability but even he can barely keep up with the swings of Servants like Archer and Saber Alter, both of whom are stat-wise on the lower-average end of Agility. If it turns into a close-range knife fight Shirou's going to get butchered, and unlike when fighting Servants he can't even block or parry effectively since Shiki will destroy his projections in one hit.
The more distance there is between them, the more the advantage goes to Shirou.
Shirou does have a handful of close-mid range techniques that might best Shiki though. The Triple Crane Wings trick with Kanshou and Bakuya probably wouldn't be effective against Shiki, since again, Shiki would destroy the projections outright in one hit. But something like Nine Lives might be able to overwhelm him.

>>141445800
Nasu said Shiki kills Shirou everytime, then self destucts.

That's with and without self-desturction during the fight.

>>141446418
Why the fuck is Shiki so fast, anyway? It's been a while since I read Tsukihime, but I'm pretty sure his Nanaya blood just makes him really fucking hate non-humans, right? How does a dude with "anemia" keep up with a Dead Apostle?

>>141446746
Nanayas son, they were bread to keep up with monsters like Kouma, so they are pretty awesome and Shiki is basically the best one yet. If only he had finished his training and actually knew what he was doing.

>>141446492
If they're both dead in the end, it's still a mutual defeat. Regardless of who goes first. If we remove the self-destruct then yeah, Shiki has an advantage. But then it'd only be fair to give Shirou more advanced tracing/less sword zits/etc... And then he can just NP spam or snipe from range. Shiki is fast. But Gae Bolg or other NP's can still kill him.

>>141446418
I agree. Shirou's definitively at a severe disadvantage in terms of speed. He only really manages to fight people like Alter/Gil/Archer/etc because he steals abilities and skill via tracing. If Shirou uses his traced fighting skills long enough to survive in order to use some Noble Phantasms active ability or skill, he could win, but it's a real coin toss not in his favor. If he camps at range like Archer did in F/HA his chances go up greatly because that was just broken.

>>141446746
Nanaya blood doesn't do much, but Nanaya inbreeding gives him:
-not-magic magic eyes
-superhuman strength
-superhuman speed
-high tier magic circuits
-assassin instinct
-superhuman durability
-superhuman rape power
-a dick the size of Kohaku's forearm

>>141447002
Shirou's got nothing. Nasu said Shiki would kill everything Shirou throws at him and close in on Shirou from range.
Gae Bolg cannot be activated from range unless the user is Cu and he is powered by a grail.

>>141447024
A lot of this is untrue. One of Shiki's biggest issues is his shitty endurance and human limitations. He just uses absurd speed and his eyes.
>>141446746
Shiki and the Nanaya's were some crazy ass demon hunting assassins that have flash step/shunshin shit. Incredibly fast bursts of speed likened to teleportation. Shiki basically just dodges shit until he has a solid chance to get a kill via his eyes. He's actually pretty shit in terms of skill (though in Melty Blood he's actually trained and whatnot). He just has a few flash step techniques that in conjunction with his eyes make fighting skills unimportant.

>>141422230
>he

>>141447262
Flash step, really? I thought F/SN was supposed to be the shounenshit entry in the Nasuverse.

>>141447262
It's not untrue.
In Tsukihime, he's running on half life force and someone is always munching on his soul, yet he's still able to kill Nero Chaos with half of his torso.

>>141447382
Nasu has always liked shounenshit, even in Tsukihime. What did you think Shiki was doing when he teleports all the time in Melty.

>>141447024
The funny thing is that he does everything at half power in Tsukihime and with half-assed training, I really wish we could have seen what Shiki could have done if he was properly trained.

>>141447141
He also stated that circumstances would change if Shirou were capable of higher mana discharges. I very clearly stated in that post that I was talking about a theoretical buffed/future Shirou vs a non self-destructing Shiki.

If Shirou becomes capable of non-suicidal Excaliblasts or other higher tier NP discharges he wins. Or if he's not, then he just ensures mutual defeat and death.

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>>141419406
Pseudo-Servant Shirou when?

We already have pseudo-servant Waver, Rin and Sakura.

I need my Shirou. no homo

>>141447623
A fully trained Shiki would be absolutely terrifying. Just look at Void Ryougi Shiki.

>>141446418
>that pic
Prisma Illya Shirou is going necrosis already? Wow, overprojected much?

>>141447631
Shirou is not and will never be capable of that.
Extra outright said that he could never be capable of using such a move outside of the Moon Cell. Not even as a CG.

Besides, at his natural best, Shirou is Magus Killer level.
At Shiki's best showing (Satsujinki), he runs over a Burial Agency level mage like she was nothing and is killing DAs left and right.

>>141447737
Prisma Illya Shirou manages to project Divine Constructs, which shouldn't be possible past near/fully suicidal attacks. He's easily the strongest Shirou we've seen.

>>141447658
We already have Archer, why bother? I want Pseudo-Servant Shiki instead and Arc for GO.

>>141447809
I watched both season of Prisma Illya Zwei and both were slow paced and shit, then I read the manga and they added a FUCKTON of filler.

Now I was waiting for 3rei! anime but maybe SILVER LINK will do the same shit, so I'll read the manga right away.

>>141447902
We need more Shirou clones. Too many Setantas and Arturias.

>>141447790
I'll say this again: It was a theoretical situation. Stop getting so worked up.

And Shirou projects an (admittedly imperfect) Excalibur in Heavens Feel, and Archer threatens to do so in UBW and can do so in Extra. Even an imperfect Excalibur would be more than enough to kill Shiki, it'd just kill Shirou too.

Also, I'm going to assume you meant DAA's. There's nothing special about normal Dead Apostles. And only high tier Burial Agency members are worth noting. Shirou fights and occasionally beats Servants, who are generally regarded as stronger than most DAA's. What's you're point? Stop being a numbnuts fanwanker and just admit that it's not a clear cut win for Shiki.

At the end of the day, they'll both be dead the vast majority of the time.

>>141447790
>>141447790
>Not even as a CG
Counter Guardians pretty much get infinite prana when on duty you dumb faggot. And if you're talking a CG summoned as a Servant; a masterless, dying Archer threatens to use a suicidal Excalibur projection. And Shirou uses one in HF Normal. It kills him, but he does it while half dead and 90% retarded. Stop making shit up.

>>141448122
>>141448364
Nasu retcon'd that in CM3. No Excaliburs, unless you exist in a dat world with different rules.

Nasu also said (think it was in the UBW anime packet) that Shirou only wins against servants (ever), when Shirou is in his best form and the servant is in their worst form. And that Avalon Kerry and CS F/Z Kirei, both stronger than Magus Killer Kerry and natural Shirou, were as strong as a low end servant or a Dead Apostle.

>>141448690
data*

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>>141427640
He projects it a few times reliably
>>141428907
Fate Shirou can project Avalon, and has high-tier regeneration. Defensively he's best Shirou.

>>141448731
Doesn't work without Saber contract.

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>>141434589
Because she's just perfect in general.

>>141448731
Fate Shirou loses his ability to project Avalon and his regeneration after Saber disappears, though.

>>141448760
>>141448991
Crap, I forgot that detail. Well, if we're talking in-route, Fate Shirou best defense, HF best offense, UBW best all-around.

>>141447583
A bit late, but I haven't played Melty yet. Haven't done Kagetsu Tohya either. Been waiting until the semester ends and I have some free time.

>>141447809
>Prisma Illya Shirou
>Prisma Illya
>canon
Might as well say shiki can kill servants filthy casual

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>>141448690
Nasu says a whole lot of shit that doesn't make sense with what's established in his own shit.
He says Unlimited Blade Works wouldn't be effective against any Servant but Gilgamesh, even though it's blatantly just a less practical version of Gate of Babylon which is enough to make Gil a fucking monster.
What the fuck is any Caster or Assassin going to do against a storm of -slightly- less power Noble Phantasms coming at them from all directions? Archer fucks Caster in the same goddamned route with a burst of projections without even having to invoke it.
Sure top-tier Servants like Heracles and Cu have ways around it, but it's totally ridiculous to argue an "average" Servant wouldn't get butchered.

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>>141449432
>Grand Order is canon
>people still pretend the Nasuverse has any respect for consistency
Everything is canon you fagtron

Ryougi already killed 99 servants so I'm pretty sure she would shit on Shirou

>>141449221
Just play Metly, come for the story and stay for the enjoyable fighting game.

>>141449495
I think the primary reason why it isn't useful against most servants is due to the long chant time in order for it to manifest and shirou can't use it for that long and when he uses it, it completely exhausts him and Rin's mana supply.

Caster is caught by surprise by Archer, partly due to her own stupidity, so I don't take that as UBW being super strong.

The reason GoB is so strong is because it can wear down opponents in a near endless war of attrition before Gil can invoke a specific one to finish them and engaging on Gil is difficult as hell because of it.

>>141449495
Yeah, it never made sense to me why Nasu says Archer's swordspams wouldn't be as effective against other Servants. It's no different from Gil firing less powerful NPs, and that still works for him pretty well.

And literally infinite swords from every single direction in a constant rain, with the ability to instantly arm himself, seems like a pretty massive powerup against anyone.

>>141449495
When has Gilgamesh ever defeated anyone with swordspam that didn't involve a surprise attack or supplementing the swordspam with something else? When has it ever been the deciding factor in his victory?

Swordspam is just stage one Gilgamesh. It's pretty much just an opening act. It's the weakest attack he can use. Any decent hero can can survive it.

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>>141449714
>>141449221
Please play on steam. I don't want to be alone.

>>141449822
>Any decent hero can can survive it.
I guess that means Lancelot isn't even decent, since it's stated in F/Z that he probably wouldn't survive a second volley.

>>141449872
Not him but MBAACC (version on Steam) doesn't really have much of a story it's focused more on the actual gameplay

The older Melty Blood games are pretty story heavy, you can just watch them on youtube though

>>141449495
UBW isn't slightly weaker, it is a lot weaker. It is far more bursty, because Archer can't actually sustain any swordspam. The RM is almost painfully hard to employ.

Also, Gil is smarter, stronger, faster, and has access to way more, even when he's not serious. UBW only counters GoB when UBW does the exact same thing as GoB. If either move off that script, UBW loses.

If I remember right, Caster got blindsided by Archer, which is why she couldn't do any thing. Dropping an unsuspecting opponent with a surprise attack is all well and good, but actual combat is completely different

>>141449872
Just tried to play right now, and no matches. Is the game so dead? Weren't they going to patch this with rollback?

>>141449495
UBW is actually as strong as GoB when it comes down to offense. Shirou actually has access to the techniques the original wielder used as seen with his fights against Saber and Berserker.

>>141449737
>long chant time in order for it to manifest

"I am the bone of my sword
unknown to death nor known to life
UNLIMITED BLADE WORKS"

Archer got it pretty fucking short if you ask me.
I can say it in less than 2 seconds, with Archer's superhuman speed he could probably say it in 1 or less. Shirou will get there eventually too.

>>141449957
Apparently there's ~300 players. In my experience, there's usually a few rooms in the evening/late night, and usually a lot on Fridays.

And I don't know when that patch is coming. They promised it, but that doesn't mean much.

>>141449921
That was a Gil who was focused on the situation.

Word of Nasu is that mindlessly spamming wouldn't kill any combat able hero, but Gil himself is what makes the difference.

>>141449973
>superhuman speed

That's not really a factor when it comes to incantations. Archer can't use High Speed Incantations.

>>141450003
If it gets the patch then it would become the best fighting game on Steam, even better than Xrd. So really they have to bring it.

>>141449949
>and has access to way more
That couldn't possibly be more wrong. UBW has the contents of GoB (save Ea) and whatever other NPs Archer's recorded in his career as a CG.

>>141450034
He can move his lips and tongue faster. That's gotta help.
Medea's speed is because of the language she uses, and it's actually instant.

Still, Archer's version is really fucking short, and he can chant while fighting too.

>>141449973
When you are going against others with superhuman strength, those 2 seconds make a difference in comparison to being able to near instantly project a phantasm into your hand.

A caster servant could erect some magical barrier to deflect or at least slow down the volley.

Knight class servants usually have high enough stats that the volley is meaningless.

Berserkers are usually durable/quick enough that the swords will only slow them down.

Riders are agile enough to dodge most of the time.

Assassins lose in direct combat anyways.

It would more slow down an offense than kill a servant that is somewhat decent.

>>141449973
>>141450034
Archer could always, y'know, just start the incantation when they're not face-to-face. He's supposed to be called "Archer" for a reason.

>>141450130
GoB already has every weapon known to man though

>>141450130
Its completely right, read UBW's entry and notice that "only close combat" clause.

>>141449714
>>141449872
I'll play the Steam version once I've played the ones with the actual story in them.

>>141450197
Why would he do that when he could just use his bow and spam arrows+broken phantasms which are more likely to do serious damage even to servants with strong defenses?

I assume we are talking about the reality marble portion.

>>141450240
To be fair, the Steam version has story, it's just in the arcade mode and it's not the focus of this one. And you have to play all the arcade stories to get everything.

>>141450188
>A caster servant could erect some magical barrier to deflect or at least slow down the volley.
Archer has anti magic weapons in stock.
>Knight class servants usually have high enough stats that the volley is meaningless.
No. K&B, C- rank projections, can cut through knight-class servants just fine, so any C or higher volley should be able to skewer them.
>Berserkers are usually durable/quick enough that the swords will only slow them down.
Quick, maybe, durable enough not to be pierced by B or C rank NPs, no, unless you're Heracles or have a similar kind of hax.
>Riders are agile enough to dodge most of the time.
Not all riders, you're just thinking of Medusa.

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>>141449737
Obviously Gate of Babylon is stronger and way more versatile and efficient, but Nasu is still hugely understating Unlimited Blade Work's effectiveness.
Even putting aside the "infinite storm of blades" aspect, something as basic as the terrain change/repositioning that comes with a Reality Marble could put Archer/Shirou at a huge advantage both against weaker opponents who are relying on attacking from a position of strength and stronger opponents who they can't match in close combat.

>>141449822
It's not like they're only relying on swordspam either. Even against a Servant it couldn't kill outright, being constantly pelted by Noble Phantasms is going to be a major distraction while dealing with Archer/Shirou, highly skilled swordsman in their own right, or can buy them time to use their variety of powerful ranged attacks to finish the target off.

>any decent hero
Between Gilgamesh being such a common antagonist and the generally high powerlevels in most Wars, among Servants we see there's a disproportional amount of Servants actually equipped to deal with swordspam and ranged techniques in general. Not every Servant has nigh-invulnerable skin, or Projection from Projectiles, or "was really really super good at fighting so they can just grab everything", or the Hide of the Nemean Lion. Because someone just raining death on people wouldn't be a very interesting story.

>>141450197
Because even if he wanted a close range encounter, the other servant would generally pop off their NP and kill him if he were that obvious.

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>>141450130
Unlimited Blade Works has "close combat armaments"; anything reasonably close to the concept of "sword" that it embodies.
Gate of Babylon has damn near everything.
Shirou can't project ancient Indian spaceships, or Hades' Cap of Invisibility.
Gil just doesn't usually use those things because mongrels aren't worth the effort.

>>141450360
Saber survived Gate of Babylon in every single encounter. Gilgamesh always had to use Gate of Babylon in conjunction with close-range combat against Saber. Swordspam alone was never enough against her.

So anyone who's of a similar or greater skill level would be able to perform similarly, I'd imagine.

>>141450360
UBW isn't GoB. He can't re-position the launch point and he isn't skilled enough to fight in the midst of a swordspam anyways.

>>141450310
Yeah, but I came for the story. The gameplay is just a nice extra for when I'm done. And aren't there like two versions that together have pretty much the entire story in them?

>>141450352
>No. K&B, C- rank projections, can cut through knight-class servants just fine, so any C or higher volley should be able to skewer them.

I more meant that knight class servants have high enough agility and endurance and are usually experienced enough as heroes that it more serves as an inconvenience

>Quick, maybe, durable enough not to be pierced by B or C rank NPs, no, unless you're Heracles or have a similar kind of hax.
I'd have to say that Spartacus from apocrypha was overall fairly average and UBW would only make him stronger.

>Not all riders, you're just thinking of Medusa.

Would Astolfo be able to handle the sword spam? Iskander would have a rough time with it because he is slow and his reality marble is weaker than Archer's.

>>141450360
Nasu is under rating it for sure, but I still don't think it will be a deciding factor against the "average servant" (I hate the term because no servant is really average and everyone has a different perception of what average means).

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>>141450458
I hope you're not under the impression Arturia is just a "decent" hero. She's a top-tier swordsman and has her "Instinct" bullshit on top of it. She stood in the middle of Tsubame Gaeshi and came out unscathed.

>>141450497
>He can't re-position the launch point
If you're talking about launching swords within it, there is no "launch point". The weapons are anywhere at any time they are needed. That's why it can beat Gate of Babylon; the weapons from Gate of Babylon have travel time.
If you're talking about projection in general, Archer rains down swords from the ceiling at least twice, to surprise kill Caster and to trap Rin. They sure didn't come out of his hand.
>and he isn't skilled enough to fight in the midst of a swordspam anyways
Shirou fighting Gil in the midst of both of their swordspam would suggest otherwise.

>>141450458
>anyone who's of a similar or greater skill level would be able to perform similarly
Too bad Saber is a top tier servant. She's probably Grand Saber material.
With a good master like Rin or Dark Sakura she was unstoppable.

>>141450688
Without the RM, he cannot do something like shooting at him from the side while attacking the front. He's only capable of shooting using his vantage point.

He wasn't fighting Gil in the midst of the swords, he was suppressing the swords from entering the fray so that he could attack. The swords never came near him because they wer positioned that way, which could only happen inside the RM.
You are suggesting Shirou start a swordspam, then enter that swordspam to fight someone more skilled than he is, which is suicide.

>>141417104
So, what's the catchphrase of HF?

>>141451184
Fuck ideals, I want dirty, loose wormpussy.

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>>141451184

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>>141451184
ILYA..? ILYA ILYA ILYAAAAAAAAAA

>>141451168
>Without the RM, he cannot do something like shooting at him from the side while attacking the front
Archer made swords rain vertically on Rin in UBW. That's a different direction from his usual shooting, so your argument is baseless.
Also, even his normal arrows seek their target, curve in midair and all that shit, as proven by the anime, so swords could probably do the same or more.

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>>141451459
>as proven by the anime
Don't need to reach there anon, that already happens in Hollow Ataraxia

>>141451522
But Hunting is used with sniping. Would it work with swordspam?

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>>141451184
YOU KEEP UP WITH ME!

>>141451459
If you shoot from above yourself, you still utilize your own vantage point.

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>>141451578
Is there enough budget in the world to do the last days of Heaven's Feel justice?

>>141451614
Miura is in charge of the script IIRC, so he'll fuck up HF too.

Man, I really hope he fuck ups HF, I wouldn't stand UBW getting 2 shitty adaptations and HF getting one flawless right away.

>>141451292
Fuck, when I read that scene the first time it broke my heart, no pun intended.
Illya was the true heroine of the route, no questions asked.
To think Nasu tried so fucking hard to bring out the feels with Sakura's sob story with no success, and yet with something as simple and pure as Illya's selfless sacrifice he brought manly tears to my eyes...

>>141451595
>If you shoot from above yourself
You do that and you kill yourself.
Archer shot giant swords perfectly vertically from above Rin, not above himself. And, no, she was not close to his hypothetical "vantage point".

Is it even possible to properly adapt a multi-route visual novel without fucking it up?

>>141451651
I'm writing like shit, time to go to sleep.

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>>141451651
>Miura is in charge of the script
Wew, good thing I didn't let myself have any hope it would be good.
Can't wait for Nine Lives Blade Works to turn from one of the most intense moments in the story to a ten second flash of hot blood.
At least I probably won't get angry until the fight with Kirei and Illya's sacrifice get shit on.

>>141451727
Ufo is doing fine so far.
If they don't fuck up the HF movies they will be one route away from nailing the whole Fate franchise.

>>141447623
Kouma says that he'll surpass Kiri eventually, Kiri could rip demons apart with his hands.

>>141421070
i loved that comic the fights were just so shit with people just standing there dazed and getting wrecked

>>141451815
Nanayas, why are they so bullshit?

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>>141451651
At least we have Heaven's Feel 2: Imouto Boogaloo a few years down the road.

>>141451727
If you have the opportunity to adopt each of them individually, absolutely.
The main problem with Ufo's adaptation (aside from the artsyle) was they largely ignored the introspection/monologuing that both explained and enhance a lot of what was going on in UBW.
Heaven's Feel doesn't have that problem as much since there's a lot more character interaction an external conflict/dialogue as opposed to the mostly internal conflict in UBW, but the bigger issue is Heaven's Feel relies heavily on a handful of scenes so there's a lot less room for fuckups.

>>141451933
They're all bunch of inbred superhumans, because that makes fucking sense.

He can also make a pact with Len, that would kill any decent magus.

So how come Nasu blew his load on making the Tsukihime cast so strong, and made the Fate cast into babbies by comparison? Isn't the usual method to always make the next installment more stronker to keep the shounenshitheads interested?

>>141452336
Only Arc is really strong.
Ciel can only fight servants defensively, but never defeat one, and Akiha, Kohaku and Hisui are shit even compared to normal magi.

>>141452450
Akiha could kill Rin by literally looking at her.

>>141451725
You seem to put a lot of stock on the idea that Archer could only have attacked Rin from an angle not based on his own position.

Unfortunately, the fact he only seems to use such an ability outside of his RM against someone much much weaker than him, seems to suggest that he cannot actually use it in combat.

Which supports my assertion that he cannot shoot from a vantage point that is not based on him in actual combat, disabling his ability to flank without applying his RM, the tactic you suppose would make UBW not shit.

>>141452336
It's almost as if powerlevels are completely irrelevant and every Nasu action story is about how the underdog wins in the end even if it kills him

>>141452450
>Akiha is shit compared to normal magi

>I'm a secondary and can't stop talking bullshit

>>141452450
>Akiha
>Shit
>Overall enhanced physiology
>Can kill people just by looking at them
>Can envelop an entire school in her power

She would beat the shit out of Rin.

>>141452553
She is. Servants would rape her and even some normal magi could beat her depending on their powers.

>>141449495
I assume that his swords are 75% compared to Gil's. Enough to deflect all of Gil's weapon but not enough to damage any servant.

>>141452628
And Rin coud beat the shit out of her just as easily. One of her gems alone has enough power to blow up a whole mansion, and not even Heracles with his God hand and massive endurance could resist her magic.

>>141452632
>Servants would rape her
Same to everyone in Fate cast. What's your fucking point?

>and even some normal magi could beat her depending on their powers.
No they couldn't, her body is barely even human anymore. Her hair is beyond OP and it's even faster than Shiki.

>>141452714
What part of "can kill you with a look" don't you understand?

It is literally impossible for Rin to beat Akiha on the draw. Even Shiki could barely dodge her attacks, and he has inbred instincts and chuuni legs.

>>141452714
Rin would die instantly to the OHKO instant attack.

Akiha can kill her just by seeing her. Rin has to cast a spell.

>>141452780
>Even Shiki could barely dodge her attacks, and he has inbred instincts and chuuni legs.
Shiki was not at his peak like in the Ciel route and even he could dodge Akiha, there's your answer. Rin with reinforcement on her legs outspeeds him.

>Akiha can kill her just by seeing her. Rin has to cast a spell.
The gems make the cast time literally instant, didn't you read her battle with Caster?
Even if Akiha attacked first, Rin could blow the whole place up with her dying breath. And if servants get killed from her gems, Akiha sure as hell dies from them too.
Not to mention with prep time Rin wins 10 out of 10 battles by erecting a defensive barrier and then blowing the whole stage up.

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>>141446746
He have better stats than his father. Kiri could rip demon hybrids apart with his bare hands.

>>141452994
In the time it took for Rin to pull out a gem and throw it, Akiha can kill her five times over. Akiha doesn't have to move or even speak to kill someone. She just has to look at them.

Also, Shiki had several advantages going for him in that battle: It was dark, the terrain was advantageous for him, he was too fast for Akiha to keep track of in the dark, and, most important, he had Spider Sense and could literally see her attacks and kill them with his knife. Rin might be comparable in the speed department, but she doesn't have Shiki's instincts, nor can she see or kill Akiha's Origami.

The entire issue here is that Akiha's power works on the speed of sight. Even if Rin used gandr, which is literally the fastest attack she has requiring no incantation and only needing her to raise her arm up and point, she'd STILL be outsped by Akiha because all she has to do is simply LOOK at Rin in order to kill her. That's it. No other movements, no incantations. All she needs to do is open her eyes and look at Rin. She's almost as dangerous as Asagami Fujino.

>>141452714
>One of her gems alone has enough power to blow up a whole mansion
Is that before or after she gets impaled through the chest without knowing what the hell happened?

>>141452994
>Shiki was not at his peak like in the Ciel route and even he could dodge Akiha, there's your answer.
Nobody's talking about Ciel route, next time read the VN retard.

>Even if Akiha attacked first, Rin could blow the whole place up with her dying breath.
So Rin can cast magic without a heart?What is she? Cu Chulainn?

>And if servants get killed from her gems, Akiha sure as hell dies from them too.
None of them ever get injured by her gems, Berserker did because somehow it was A rank, power is irrelevant and has nothing to do with Rank. Remember those A rank wolves? I'm pretty sure Kiritsugu butchered the same wolves when he saved Irisviel. I guess Kiritsugu can take Berserker.

>Not to mention with prep time Rin wins 10 out of 10 battles by erecting a defensive barrier and then blowing the whole stage up.
>With prep time
Same thing applies for Akiha then you fucktard.

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>>141452640
>not enough to damage any Servant
>cuts Gil's goddamned arm off
You don't need to assume anything. Projected Noble Phantams are one Rank down from the base. Gil's "original" Noble Phantasms are one Rank up from the derivatives possessed by other heroes. They still mutually destroy each other because Rank barely means anything aside from broad strokes comparisons and the few times they do mean something like with God Hand.
For the record, Kanshou and Bakuya, really shitty C- Rank swords, are enough for Shirou to cut Saber Alter in half through her armor.
Knight of Honor lets Lancelot turn mundane shit into D Rank Noble Phantasms that can very easily kill a Servant and clash with Excalibur.

Being a Noble Phantasm, even a projection of one, means something. Every weapon in Unlimited Blade Works is potentially deadly to any Servant without exceptional protections, such as Gilgamesh's Golden Armor and Berserker's God Hand.

>>141452994
>Rin with reinforcement on her legs outspeeds him.
You're a moron. Rin with reinforcement top speed was 50 km/h. Shiki moved faster than eyes can track
>Your legs really are amazingly fast. It isn't that you are hiding your body behind anything, you're just moving faster than my eyes can track.

>>141453106
>In the time it took for Rin to pull out a gem and throw it, Akiha can kill her five times over
Plundering takes time. It's only instakill for normal humans, moron.

>Is that before or after she gets impaled through the chest without knowing what the hell happened?
Why do you assume Akiha finds Rin first and not the other way around?

>Nobody's talking about Ciel route, next time read the VN retard.
I said Shiki wasn't at his peak like in the Ciel route when he fought Akiha. LKearn how to read.

>So Rin can cast magic without a heart?What is she? Cu Chulainn?
Akiha doesn't get an instant kill on Rin, her magic only insta-kills normal humans.

>Berserker did because somehow it was A rank, power is irrelevant and has nothing to do with Rank
You are a moron. All A rank attacks all have massive power to begin with. A mere E rank punch is already ten times as powerful as a peak human's. And Berserker has a massive endurance stat on top of God Hand, so the rank ins't the only factor but the amount of damage also is.

>Same thing applies for Akiha then you fucktard.
Akiha can't prep for shit, she's only good at doing damage. She can't reinforce herself, can't put up a bounded field, can't set up traps.

>Your legs really are amazingly fast. It isn't that you are hiding your body behind anything, you're just moving faster than my eyes can track.
Tracking an object moving at 50km/h in front of your face and around you it's almost impossible. It gets easier with distance, but at close range you can't follow it.
Also, maybe Akiha's eyes are slow as fuck, maybe it's Nasu using hyperboles as always, we don't have the numbers on Shiki's speed.

>>141453045
That's because Shiki is just half trained, and is trying to copy what he remembers seeing Kiri do that one time.

>>141447658
We also just got Kiritsugu and Irisviel.

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>>141453507
You have no idea what you're talking about. Akiha can Impale people with het hair. She doesn't even need to use the curse.

And she did kill Ciel really fucking fast in the manga so your point is just retarded.

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>>141453507
>Plundering takes time. It's only instakill for normal humans, moron.
You have no basis on that. Shiki who have high spiritual defence (as said in Jougan description) got fried in less than second

>>141453507
>Plundering takes time. It's only instakill for normal humans, moron.
There has never been a single instance where plundering took time.

>Why do you assume Akiha finds Rin first and not the other way around?
Akiha has AOE tracking that allows her to find people she can't see.

>I said Shiki wasn't at his peak like in the Ciel route when he fought Akiha. LKearn how to read.
Doesn't matter. Lag time only exists at night.

>Akiha doesn't get an instant kill on Rin, her magic only insta-kills normal humans.
Roa

>Akiha can't prep for shit, she's only good at doing damage. She can't reinforce herself, can't put up a bounded field, can't set up traps.
She doesn't need to reinforce herself because her toughness is always on, but she can spread her hair to detect and entrap everything around her, which is way better than what Rin can do.

>Tracking an object moving at 50km/h in front of your face and around you it's almost impossible. It gets easier with distance, but at close range you can't follow it.
Also, maybe Akiha's eyes are slow as fuck, maybe it's Nasu using hyperboles as always, we don't have the numbers on Shiki's speed.
You fucking know this is reaching.

>>141453788
>Akiha can Impale people with het hair
Normal people. Her edge is her plundering magic, not her fucking hair stab.

>manga
Kill yourself.

>>141453507

>You are a moron. All A rank attacks all have massive power to begin with. A mere E rank punch is already ten times as powerful as a peak human's. And Berserker has a massive endurance stat on top of God Hand, so the rank ins't the only factor but the amount of damage also is.

Secondary, you have no idea what you're talking about right? Stats have nothing to do with Attack rank.

Saber outright says that even if an attack can blow the planet if it's not A rank it will not bypass god hand.

Just fuck off.

>>141453507
You do realize Akiha is a half demon right you inbred fuck? Rin's strenghtening magic is a joke.

>>141454025
Not only is she a half-demon she is the "lord" of demon hybrids. She keeps the others in the Tohno family in check until she goes out of control. Kouma survived having his neck almost entirely severed from the back by Nanaya

What is Rin lord of other than "pleasing old men for money"?

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>>141453881
When did I said God Hand could be affected by anything less than A rank?
I'm saying A rank attacks do massive damage on their own, fucking moron.
1- If Rin bypassed God Hand then her gems are A rank or higher.
2- If her gems are A rank, then her destructive potential is massive, since we know even an E rank attack is at least ten times stronger than anything a peak human can do.
Refer to pic related if you still don't get it, retard.

>>141453507
Plundering is said to be weak against the likes of Arcueid.

I seriously hope you're not comparing Rin to Arcueid.

>>141454137
Stop applying the Servant ranks to normal humans, they don't translate.

God hand doesn't care if it is on the servant scale, just that, in its natural scale, it is equivalent to or greater than A.

>>141454137
Mistery is not the same as power.

Secondaries won't even learn that, jesus christ.

>>141454137
That chart is for STATS you fucking mongoloid.

What matters against god Hand is the mistery being A rank, I already told you it has nothing to do with stats.

>>141453507
Akihafags BTFO

>>141454137
That chart is saying that -in broad strokes- someone with B Rank Agility is twice as fast as someone with D Rank Agility.
Noble Phantasm Ranks are a completely different scale and system than Parameter/Stats Ranks.
Claiming things work that way is a gross misrepresentation.

Rule Breaker is a C Rank Noble Phantasm.
Kanshou and Bakuya are C- Rank Noble Phantasms.
Which one would you rather have to defend yourself?

>>141453507
>Tracking an object moving at 50km/h in front of your face and around you it's almost impossible. It gets easier with distance, but at close range you can't follow it.
He didn't move sideways to break her line of sight, she was in front of him and moved back so fast he instantly disappeared from Akiha's vision.

>>141429876
bout threefiddy

>>141454301
Then the mystery bypasses God Hand but can't do shit against Herc's massive endurance stat if it doesn't pack a good punch.

>>141454335
Don't bother he's a newfag that doesn't even know how NPs are measured.
>>141454322
>___fags xD

You're retarded, samefag. People are correcting you because you're a secondary spouting false information you read from the wikia

Way to miss the point faggots, the Tsukihime cast is not massively stronger than the SN cast.
Arc is fucking strong, yes, then the rest of the cast is on SN's level or below.
None of the other Turkeyhandle girls can kill servants, and as seen by your discussion, Akiha could even die to Rin, so she can't do shit against Saber, Archer, or any servant, let alone Dark Sakura. And Kohaku and Hisui are a joke.
As for Shirou and Shiki, it's a double KO between them, but Shirou's ability lets him fight servants, while Shiki gets speedblitzed by them.

Now shut the fuck up, secondaries.

>>141454406
That's not how god hand works secondary. It's conceptual, if it surpasses A rank then it fucks him up.

God hand IS heracles' body

>>141454482
No, that is exactly how it works.
A Rank B spear couldn't do shit to him.
A Rank A fish could smack him in the face but it's not necessarily going to hurt him, it just has the potential to.

>>141454335
>Noble Phantasm Ranks are a completely different scale and system than Parameter/Stats Ranks.
And your source is?
Your ass.

>That's not how god hand works secondary. It's conceptual, if it surpasses A rank then it fucks him up
No, if it surpasses A rank it can POTENTIALLY kill him.
Gil pierced him with countless Noble Phantasms, not just twelve. It's not as easy as touching him with something A rank, you have to give him a deadly blow too.
Do you think cutting his finger with an A rank sword would take out a life? are you seriously this retarded?

>>141454451
Akih>>Rin, nice try though but next time don't pretend to be someone else.
Shirou>Shiki

Nothing about mutual defeat is ever mentioned. Nasu says that Shiki will win, killing everything Shirou projects

You do realize overload is not only for Shiki but also Shirou right? And you do realize that Shiki overloading doesn't mean death right? It just means he'll be in bed for a day with a massive headache. We've SEEN him overload his eyes.

ITT: Tsukihimefags being Fate secondaries and Fatefags being Tsukihime secondaries.

>>141454606
>Nasu says that Shiki will win, killing everything Shirou projects
He also says Shirou can win with an Excalibur-like Holy Sword, then die from prana depletion and overworking his mind like in HF Normal.

>>141454621
>tfw I started this shitstorm and don't have a bowl of popcorn

>>141454576
Gil pierced him with several because a servant won't die unless you destroy the core/heart/head. Also Heracles has battle continuation A+ which means not even destroying his heart would kill him Gilgamesh never destroyed his head so he didn't one-shot each of his lives.

Rin blew his head off, so he died.

Thanks for proving you're a secondary because you don't even know that.

>>141454657
Nasu says if he could do it, he could win (then die)
CM3 says he can't do it anyways.

>>141454657
That's not winning, that's double suicide.

And Shiki can kill the beam just like he can kill lightning.

>>141454606
>We've SEEN him overload his eyes
Yeah, he couldn't even kill poison without fainting, how do you expect him to cut a rain of legendary Noble Phantasms made of fucking prana (which is even more abstract than killing poison) and not die?
Shiki dies from cutting the swordspam, no questions asked. Even Nasu said it.

>>141419374
Still mad because Rin is riding his cock and not yours, Archer?

>>141454451
Not sure why did you bring whole Tsuki vs Fate cast because we talking about Rin vs Akiha.
>None of the other Turkeyhandle girls can kill servants
Well Aoko is Servant tier and Ciel in kanzen busou mode should be too considering regular can fight defensively and in that mode she's massively stronger.

>>141454748
>And Shiki can kill the beam just like he can kill lightning
Not the same. One is just electricity and the other is prana. Nasu never said he could kill the beam.

>>141454621
All I see is Fatefags not knowing anything about Fate and Tsukihime which is embarrassing.

You can keep pretending you're someone else but the fact that all you've said has been proven wrong won't change. You don't even know what mistery ranks are

>>141454790
>Aoko
>A Tsukihime character
How more secondary can you get?
And no, Ciel can't kill servants, Nasu confirms.

>>141454759
He didn't kill the poison, it had already spread, he killed the negative effects of the poison and Shirou's NPs are barely holding onto reality.

Shiki kills Shirou, no questions asked. Even Nasu said it.

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But could Shiki rape loliShirou?

>>141454817
You think Herc could die from a mere scratch from an A rank sword and dare to tell me you've proven me wrong?
How about you read the fucking VN instead of the wiki?

>>141454759
Shiki has killed Arcueid>>>>>>>>>>>>>Noble Phantasms
Shiki has killed Reality Marbles
DAAs
Gaia
A DAA that is also a Reality Marble 2 on 1

A NP is fucking nothing.


>Rain
Since when can Shirou rain NPs without Rin's mana? Even then flash sheat takes care of those
>inb4 UBW
Killed just like Nero, Gaia and the one in MB

I'm reading Tsukihime right now and fuck, Shiki is a fucking psycho. SHIKI really messed him up.

>>141450419
Except Shirou can and does project Medusa's bag. Shirou and Archer can create non-combat NPs too. They just can't mimic something as ridiculous as spaceships.

>>141454451
>while Shiki gets speedblitzed by them.
Nasu has said that Shiki will defeat everything that is projected. Noble Phantasms that are projected move as fast as the Servants that used them.

Nasu has already implied that Shiki himself can move fast enough that traced NPs are meaningless to him.

>>141454917
You're arguing with Nasu here.

Scenario 1: Shiki kills all the NPs, kills Shirou and dies from overloading his brain.

Scenario 2: Shirou kills Shiki with an Excalibur-like sword blast and dies from overload.

That's it, it's a double KO in both scenarios. In one, Shiki technically wins because he delivers the kill, and in the other one Shirou technically wins. But they both die in both cases.

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>>141454828
Ok, so you just baiting. Good to know

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>>141454923
>When Arcueid opens the door to say "hello" and Shiki's rape instinct kicks in and he slices her into 17 pieces in one quick motion
Tsukihime was an enjoyable read, I got kind of bored on the far side maid routes though.

>>141454972
Nasu already adressed the "can Shiki kill servants?" question, and no, Shiki doesn't have the stats to kill them, but Mystic Eyes do work on them.

>>141454828
Nasu says things will change if she takes a certain weapon that's in the "deepest parts" of the association

>>141454657
>can win with an Excalibur-like Holy Sword
>>141454736
> could win
Actually, READ the statement again.

It only says there that Shiki wins. If Excalibur can be used, the situation "becomes different," BUT it does not say that Shiki loses. That is important. This implies that even if Excalibur can be used, Shiki can still win.

>>141454996
She is a Mahoyo character and only has a cameo in Tsukihime, you would know that if you read the fucking VN.

>>141454895
>You think Herc could die from a mere scratch from an A rank sword and dare to tell me you've proven me wrong?

>scratch
Learn to read faggot>>141454718


And A RANK WOLVES

>>141455025
He also says he will completely ignore Shiki dying from the overload, so Shiki could die from frying his brain even before he gets to kill Shirou too. It doesn't have to be afterwards.

>>141454923
>SHIKI really messed him up.
Actually, if you read Red Demon God, you'd understand that Shiki's entire family are psychos when it comes to killing threats, current or future.

>>141454996
Appearing for 5 minutes in the beginning and 3 minutes in the end does not make her a Tsukihime character.

Did you actually read it? She's never even named in Tsukihime.

>>141455010
>, Shiki doesn't have the stats to kill them
>Shiki can defeat Traced NP Servant stats

>>141454983
>dies from overloading his brain

LITERALLY NEVER SAID. Nasu says Shiki wins, he never mentions anything about him dying fucktard>>141454606

Overloading doesn't mean death, next time learn what the hell you're talking about.

>>141455084
It goes both ways dumbass

>>141455043
"Sensei" Aoko is Tsukihime/Melty Blood character.
>Aoko appeared in both Tsukihime and Melty Blood, does this mean those games take place in the same world?
>Takeuchi: Of course they share the same worldview, but it's better to view them as different stories. For example, the Kohaku from Tsukihime and the Kohaku from Melty Blood feel like totally different people (laughs). The Aoko-sensei everyone is familiar with will also be a totally different person. Tsukihime's Aoko-sensei is an accomplished magus, in Mahoutsukai no Yoru she is still an inexperienced mage still growing up. Fans who knew her from other works will be surprised: "So this is how the old Aoko-sensei is like!"

>>141455008
Anyone got the text or screenshot of that scene, the part where it describes what pieces he cuts her into?

>>141454957
>Medusa's bag
I'll assume this is something from F/HA
I worded my statement poorly. Shirou can trace and project things that aren't "swords" or close to them, but that is a result of his own abilities, not thanks to Unlimited Blade Works.
You wouldn't find something like the school's space heater within Unlimited Blade Works, despite Shirou having analyzed it.

>>141455084
Shiki dying from overload is never mentioned, Nasu literally never says anything about Shiki dying. Shiki has overloaded before and he has never died.

Shitposter-kunt.

He also never says overloading is for Shiki, Shirou can as has overloaded his circuits too.

>>141455077
>Learn to read faggot>>141454718
You do realize you're agreeing with me in that post, right?
As I said, an A rank attack bypasses God Hand, but can only POTENTIALLY kill Herc, it still has to deliver a killing blow, which requires enough power to cause a great deal of damage and hit the right place.
Anything below A doesn't even scratch him, nothing.

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What the fuck is this girls problem?

>>141455084
The overload goes both ways. You automatically die from using Excalibur. Traced NPs have very short-lived existences, so they should technically have a lot of lines and dots. And Shiki has seen the death of creatures that are higher tier and never fried his brain.

The ONLY time Shiki fried his brain was in Ciel route. And he was literally killing the Counter Force of Gaia.

You might say Kohaku route with the poison, but that was in a route he barely used his eyes in and he was killing the concept of Kohaku getting her ass poisoned. It was already well in her. And all he got was temporary blindness. All other combat he had, he never got fucked even fighting really powerful concepts/creatures.

>>141455173
>"Sensei" Aoko is Tsukihime/Melty Blood character
She gets more screentime in Mahoyo, do the math.

>>141455207
She wants Male Rin's large penis.

>>141455094
>Appears in Tsukihims
>Not a tsukihime character

Wew lad.

Are you one of those retards that are in denial about Shiki fucking her because she's your waifu?

>>141455214
>You automatically die from using Excalibur
You mean AFTER using it (AKA after killing Shiki).

>>141455259
>(AKA after killing Shiki).
Refer to >>141455025

>>141455252
See >>141455229

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But can they beat Shirou's waifu?

>>141455290
I don't care about your headcanon

see >>141455173

Your waifu got her pussy fucked by an inbred demon killer. Sorry pal

>>141455290
She starts out in Tsukihime and is actually in Melty Blood a lot.

>>141455229
There's no Sensei Aoko in Mahoyo. She's Tsukihime/MB character

>>141455259
No, he dies before using it or even forming it.

Q: What is the limit of replication in UBW? The highest level of NP (sword types) is probably Ea, but while it might be impossible for Shirou, could Archer make it? Also, under the meaning of weapons, to what extent can he make modern weapons? Must it be only blade types or can he make guns and mobile weapons?

A: Divine constructs like Ea and Excalibur are non-replicable. There might be some degraded NPs with similar performance in stock though. Also, since sword is becoming his origin, the weapons that he has stored are fundamentally limited to close combat.

>>141455304
Shiki could save her, killing zoken's existence in day one just like he did to Nero. Except Zoken is trash.

He could kill AM's connection to sakura after that.

Shirou would need ti suck his dick as thanks.

>>141455342
>There's no Sensei Aoko in Mahoyo
>Implying she's a different person
This denial, holy shit.

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>>141455357
You mean "dies after making a degraded copy that's still powerful enough to wipe out a gigantic abomination like Angra Mainyu"

>>141455357
>No, he dies before using it or even forming it.
Read HF, fucking secondary.
Shirou traced Excalibur Morgan to kill the grail and THEN died.

>>141455392

>The Aoko-sensei everyone is familiar with will also be a totally different person
> The Aoko-sensei everyone is familiar with

Aoko sensei>>>> Mahoyo Tsundere

>>141455410
You forgot the part where he has a servant's arm that amps him to a level he'll never reach glued to his body pal.

>>141455444
We're not talking quality here, we're talking screentime and relevance.
Aoko is shit in any form, I couldn't care less who you think is best.

>>141455410
>>141455418
Now you're arguing with Nasu.

Does anybody have that image of Saber in her white dress where she is in Avalon with her hands upon her chest smiling and waiting for Shirou, or in that case, welcoming Shirou?

It was official art or VN art I think.

>>141455191
This?
>The black lines that divide her into seventeen pieces.
>Through the neck, back of the head, from the right eye to the lips, upper right arm, lower right arm, right ring finger, left elbow, left thumb, left middle finger, left breast, from the rib to the heart, from the stomach to the abdomen in two places, left groin, left thigh, left leg, left toe, all of them.
>As I pass by her,
>not even taking a second.
>Truly, in an instant, entirely.
>I "dismantle" her into seventeen pieces of meat.

>>141455357
>There might be some degraded NPs with similar performance in stock though
Does this mean Archer has a Noble Phantasm with similar performance to fucking EA, AKA anti-world NP?

>>141455483
>She's not a tsukihime character
>Except she is
>She's not
>Someone posts a quote where they literally say she is
>b-but she's not

>>141455490
Nasu himself made Shirou trace Excalibur Morgan in HF. VN Nasu>any other Nasu.

>>141455523
No, Nasu says might to situations that will never happen outside of complete hypotheticals.

>>141455490
>Now you're arguing with Nasu.
No, I'm citing evidence from where what Nasu wrote contradicts what he said later, and restating the "It's just a shitty replica" excuse he gave.

>There might be some degraded NPs with similar performance in stock

>>141455480
I'm sorry, I didn't know we had moved those goalposts.

>>141455543
She is actually a Nasuverse character, but she is more prominent in Mahoyo than Tsukihime.

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>>141455418
Well he died the moment he traced it. His body moved automatically, possibly Counter Force finished the job using his body

>>141455572
>Nasu says might to situations that will never happen outside of complete hypotheticals
Straight out of your headcanon.

>>141455555
HF Shirou traces it with Archer's Arm. In fact everything HF Shirou does is with Archer's arm.

He uses mana from the arm, uses the arms circuirs, experience and so on. The only thing HE actually does is think
>I want to trace this shit arm-kun , thanks

>>141455521
Nasu was really detailed in this shit.

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>>141455247
I kind of like Male Rin and Shielder. Sad they ended up in GO though.

Shirou is one of those MCs that are very irritating. Just like that Shu from Guilty Crown.

>>141455555
>>141455575
>trying to play death of the author
Nasu says what's canon and he has been very insistent on this.

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>>141455192
I guess I worded myself poorly too. He didn't just project a grocery bag. He projected Kibisis. A noble phantasm bag that has zero association with swords or direct combat/damage. Shirou projects it after seeing it. (From the inside.)

The EMIYAs are perfectly capable of recreating non-divine non-combat NPs.

>>141455519
Pls respond

>>141455619
Yeah, we give Nasu shit for his sex scenes and seafood fetish, but the man can write some... unnerving stuff.

>>141455521
>Upper right arm
>lower right arm

>>141455610
Nasu's behavior is my headcanon?
If something were true, Nasu would say its true.
Why else would Nasu use the word might?

>>141455318
>Your waifu got her pussy fucked by an inbred demon killer. Sorry pal
Yeah, that literally never happens in a single TM work. If you're going to try to troll, at least reference things that exist. Or be less blatant.

>>141455595
shiroufags btfo

>>141455632
Nasu brought in guest authors who he allowed to write anything cause it was just a dream.

Did you check who wrote that?

>>141455595
It's a metaphor for his self-awareness dying.
Shirou forgets he is Emiya Shirou, he loses his very last memory and his personality dies, but the soul is still inside his body and it still moves, so he is not actually dead. He's like a vegetable.

>>141455746
Is it a metaphor or do you want it to be?
Where did it say or indicate it was a metaphor?

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>>141455691
>Waifufag in denial about his waifu wanting the gland

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHA

>I don't mean to be distant, but if you learned your lesson, please avoid the mansion. Going to Nii-san's room is simply intolerable.

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But can Shiki kill Caliburn, UBW and Archer's arm wielder Shirou after having a fouresome with Sakura, Saber and Rin?

>>141455626
>Nasu says what's canon and he has been very insistent on this
Even Nasu can't retcon what happened in the VN without a valid explanation.
He contradicted himself and probably forgot what he wrote before, so the VN takes priority.

>>141455626
>trying to win an argument with buzzwords
Shirou isn't projecting Excalibur. Shirou is projecting shitty degraded thing outwardly resembling Excalibur and with similar function, but incomparable to the real thing.
That is not inconsistent with what Nasu made up after writing it.
That is not inconsistent with what Archer stated when he threatened to try the same feat in Unlimited Blade Works.

>>141455805
"Vampire Shiki with Nanaya Blood using Senso and Sensa, with strenght surpassing Nanaya Kiri and having formed a contract with Len" can.

>>141455837
Oh and forgot to say that he raped the maids too.

>>141455679
Your right arm has an upper and lower portion.

>>141455737
Not sure who wrote her eclipse scene, honestly. But also honestly not sure why that's relevant. Nasu didn't write all of F/HA's main story, he didn't write F/Z, he only wrote small portions of F/GO, but it's all still canon. It happened in-universe in a canon story produced by TM. If he didn't write it, he at least saw it before release, assuming he wasn't a completely lazy fuck.

I'd say they can canonically make shit like Kibisis.

>>141455837
You forgot "after having a threesome with maids"

>>141455595
Tracing excalibur wasn't what killed him you fool

Archer's arm was eating away his conciousness from the moment he traced Berserker's axe-sword.
Excalibur was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

>>141455689
>Why else would Nasu use the word might?
Because he is unsure if he's contradicting a previous statement, so he treads carefully.
Why would he even say "might be" if it is actually impossible? if it's not possible then he shuts his mouth or says "no, it's not possible". We've seen him do that a lot.

>>141455795
You really are trying hard to fit in being such a lel epic troll, aren't you?
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHA
Too bad you're failing horribly.

>>141455795
Man I'd really like to see an H scene of this.

I wonder how Aoko is in bed, she probably doesn't have experience. Taking that huge Nanaya cock should be hard for a tomboy like her.

Man can we have Aoko sex scenes in the remake?

>>141455878
Yes I forgot but I added it here anon>>141455853

>>141455884
He uses might when its possible in a completely hypothetical situation.
In example, if there was a Hypothetical weaker and non-divine Ea, he could copy a downgrade of that, but since none exists, he says might.

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>>141455936
>>141455795
>>141455318
Really? You're not even baiting any waifufags, just spurring some "are you actually that stupid" comments. And come on. At least try to make your samefaggotry subtle.

>>141455901
>lel

>>>/r/eddit

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>>141455805
>filename
Reminder that Miyu's brother is by far the strongest official version of Shirou, being able to invoke Unlimited Blade Works and performing numerous consecutive top-tier projection feats without giving himself an aneurysm.
Reminder that Kuro, and by extension Prisma Archer, is by far the strongest version of Archer, able to project an Excalibur exceeding the strength of the original without Mooncell assistance, and mold Excalibur into a Broken Phantasm.

>>141455824
Nasu can absolutely retcon it.
Nasu isn't retconning something that is vital to the story, just to a single ending.
All it does is trim that branch, leaving the rest of the story untouched.

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>>141456000
Reminder that Prisma have nothing to do with canon Nasuverse rules.

>>141455875
The relevence is that HA is bound by canon as much as Kagetsu Tohya.
Because they're both essentially dreams.

>>141455936
>Man can we have Aoko sex scenes in the remake?
Would be nice if it happens.

>>141455775
>The soul remains
>The body moved and swung the sword
If the body moves, the brain works, then it's physically alive, and if the soul remains, it's spiritually alive.
The only aspect that can objectively be "dead" is the mind.
Shirou basically stopped thinking, so the person "Emiya Shirou" can metaphorically, philosophically or poetically, be thought as dead.

>>141456046
Who cares about Nasuverse rules. It's fun.

All this autism about muh Ea and muh Excalibur is annoying.

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>>141456046
>Grand Order is canon
>assmad mainFatefags still want to tell me Prisma isn't canon

>>141456119
Even if GO is fanfiction tier it's still canon. Prisma is also fanfiction tier but isn't canon.