Why did Miyazaki glorify a war criminal?

I don't know

why do people glorify Albert Einstein every day?

>>141297754
2:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yzTgvDdPqw

>>141297822
literally who

Miyazaki really wants to see how far he can push his anti-war messages

>>141297754
Because he would have been far better off making an animated version of Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines, but decided to make some shitty historically inaccurate war drama instead. It was the inaccuracies that made it shit, and not just because they were lies.

>>141297754
Because japs are war criminals too

He didn't glorify him. He just told his story.

File: this is the enemy.jpg (1MB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1920x1080px

>>141298833
>anti-war messages
>when Japan started it
Wee lad.

>>141302829
>Murica embargoes oil'n'shit and says "japan no, bad, stay"
>Japan starts trampling on shit anyway to get oil'n'shit
totallyunexepected.jpg

This stupid film was garbage. Calls it a documentary, but creates a love interest that dies that never existed in real life. The dream sequences were incoherent. Holy crap was this film bad.

>>141302967
It looks good, but so does every other Ghibli movie.

Really it's fine until he reunites with and falls in love with the girl, then it stops dead and goes to shit. If he had just written it properly and focussed on the war and planes and shit it could have been a lot better.

>>141303057
>If he had just written it properly and focussed on the war and planes and shit it could have been a lot better.
Talk about missing the point. The movie flew kek it? over your head.

>>141303096
I get that the point wasn't about the planes and the war, but the whole romance thing didn't happen in real life and kills the movie.

>>141302941
It's russia's fault for losing so badly. Japan got a false sense of how capable they were because they smashed Russia's navy and army in 1905.
China was a pushover too.
Because russia was so pissweak, Japan never got to know just how powerful western nations were.

>>141303119
Be honest anon, you didn't even know who designed the zero until you watched this film (read: lurked /a/ threads about the film) and are now parroting others who took issue with the historical inaccuracies, so you can be contrarian. I am not even necessarily disagreeing with the content of your post, but you know everything I just said is true.

>>141302967
Who called it a documentary?

>>141303215
Not all of it.

I had no idea who designed the zero until reading about the film on Wikipedia, which is also where I read about the historical inaccuracies and the backlash they caused, however on my first viewing I genuinely found the romance to be unbelievably tedious to the point where it stopped the movie dead.

I don't give a shit about the inaccuracies like most people do as long as the movie is good. The problem is that the movie is not good because the romance comes in and fucks up the pacing, bringing the whole thing to a screeching halt.

>>141303369
I have got say, it is rare to get a serious proper response around here these days, cheers.

File: yet another japanese war crimes denial thread.gif (981KB, 1064x589px) Image search: [Google]

981KB, 1064x589px

japan commit no crime

>>141297754
How was he a war criminal? For designing a war plane for his country?

>>141303546
Yes. Don't you know? They guy who invented the screw is Satan himself since it has been used in pretty much anything and everything ever in war = pure evil.

>>141303546
>Liberals were unhappy that a warplane engineer was the film's protagonist and questioned why Miyazaki would make a flattering film about a man who "built killing machines"

File: The Fire Rises.png (623KB, 501x780px) Image search: [Google]

623KB, 501x780px

>>141297754

I prefer Nolan's remake.

>>141297754
Was he even tried? No, so he's not one.

If you actually watch the movie, you'd realize that it is about the travesty of using his work for war.

>>141303699
I can't read or use the word "rises" anymore. I just can't do it.

File: 1432152084812.jpg (60KB, 736x556px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 736x556px

>>141303722
>>141303722
>Was he even tried? No, so he's not one.
Hitler confirmed innocent.

Why do Westerners glorify war criminals? I mean, really.

File: artm.jpg (19KB, 432x288px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 432x288px

>>141297754
Pearl Harbor veteran Dick Fiske hugged Japanese Zero pilot Zenji Abe at today's opening of a symposium on the 60th anniversary of the Pearl Harbor attack. The symposium is held at the Hilton Hawaiian Village.

http://archives.starbulletin.com/2001/12/03/news/story1.html

This japanese Zero fighter isn't a war criminal. Why would the guy who designed the Zero be one??

>>141302402
Ah yeah, especially my little nephew Toshiro, 1 month old now.

>>141302829

Roosevelt administration, while curtly dismissing Japanese diplomatic overtures to harmonize relations, imposed a series of increasingly stringent economic sanctions on Japan. In 1939 the United States terminated the 1911 commercial treaty with Japan. “On July 2, 1940, Roosevelt signed the Export Control Act, authorizing the President to license or prohibit the export of essential defense materials.” Under this authority, “[o]n July 31, exports of aviation motor fuels and lubricants and No. 1 heavy melting iron and steel scrap were restricted.” Next, in a move aimed at Japan, Roosevelt slapped an embargo, effective October 16, “on all exports of scrap iron and steel to destinations other than Britain and the nations of the Western Hemisphere.” Finally, on July 26, 1941, Roosevelt “froze Japanese assets in the United States, thus bringing commercial relations between the nations to an effective end. One week later Roosevelt embargoed the export of such grades of oil as still were in commercial flow to Japan.”[2] The British and the Dutch followed suit, embargoing exports to Japan from their colonies in southeast Asia.
Having broken the Japanese diplomatic code, the Americans knew, among many other things, what Foreign Minister Teijiro Toyoda had communicated to Ambassador Kichisaburo Nomura on July 31: “Commercial and economic relations between Japan and third countries, led by England and the United States, are gradually becoming so horribly strained that we cannot endure it much longer. Consequently, our Empire, to save its very life, must take measures to secure the raw materials of the South Seas.”[3]
Because American cryptographers had also broken the Japanese naval code, the leaders in Washington knew as well that Japan’s “measures” would include an attack on Pearl Harbor.[4]

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1930

>>141303369
>historical inaccuracies
Except there aren't, you won't see any listed anywhere, it's purely propaganda talk.

>>141297754
I didn't remember Miyazaki glorify 'MURICA.

>>141303754
You don't even know the difference between a dictator in power and an engineer?

>>141303921
Yes pearl harbor wash one of the possible places to attack. As was the Phillipines, midway, etc.

File: bayonet.jpg (87KB, 600x402px) Image search: [Google]

87KB, 600x402px

In the fall of 1937, the Associated Press (AP) distributed this photo as a Japanese soldier using a Chinese national as a guinea pig for bayonet practice. Iris Chang's The Rape of Nanking carries the same kinds of photos of Japanese atrocities. However, the soldier wears a turned-down-collared uniform, which no Japanese soldier wore at that time, so the man is not a Japanese soldier. The January 1939 issue of Lowdown, an American magazine, commented about these photos that this was in fact a communist Chinese officer torturing a Chinese prisoner.

And you should know that the book from Iris Chang, the 'Rape of Nanking, only contains fake photographs... of tanks that didn't even exist at the moment, of chinese actors in japanese SUMMER uniforms when all happened in winter, etc.

File: german POW.jpg (343KB, 1600x1223px) Image search: [Google]

343KB, 1600x1223px

>>141303970
But anon-kun. Your line of logic was: not tried so not guilty. Using that logic, Hitler wasn't guilty.

Even if he were tried, he wouldn't be guilty of anything. Any and all major "endlösungen" were done behind his back.

Also, daily reminder that both Russia and Germany declared war on Poland. Despite this only Germany was declared war upon by France and Britain, despite their alliance with Poland technically requiring them to declare on Russia as well, but hey, that wouldn't do now would it.

>>141297754
Is this anime about Wright brothers?

File: bodiesriver.jpg (29KB, 400x254px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 400x254px

This photo was identified as Nanking Massacre victims on the shore of the Yangtze River, but these bodies were the Chinese soldiers who died in battle, not a massacre. Hashimoto, a Japanese soldier who fought there, testified, "The Chinese soldiers carried their rifles or machine-guns but none of them were in regular military uniform." Sekiguchi also testified, "None of them showed signs of surrender." Thus, the Japanese army had to continue to attack them and many of the Chinese soldiers were shot or drowned in the river. In this photo are the bodies that were washed up on shore.

So it was... like, war? Simply war.

File: Dec15-4.jpg (36KB, 274x400px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 274x400px

REAL photos of Nanking

http://nanking1937.blog.fc2.com/

Didn't like this flick and I usually love Ghibli shows.

>>141303179
Japan smashed Russia in 1905 but got their shit pushed in by Russia back in 1920's (or whenever the Khalkin Gol crap went down).
The wake up was so abrupt Nips never again tried starting shit with Russia.

Building fighter planes isn't a war crime you dummy

I can understand what Miyazaki was trying to say, it's like if you read or watch movies about the scientists that made the atomic bomb, they only realized what they made after it was done.

Still, low tier ghibli movie.

>>141303369
For me the movie felt unfocused of sorts. The period pieces far off from the plane designing ones and all detached from the romance plot. Like it didn't know what it wanted to be about.

>>141304081
Dunno man, Germans used summer uniforms for winter in Russia so whatever.

>>141304120
Hashimoto who? Where and why did he testify. Same shit as Nuremberg trials and SS and Wehrmacht generals testifying, can't take it serious unless you know all the details. A simple quote like this is absolute shit.

>>141304560
>Be involved in project Manhattan
>Design something that has the function of a bomb, looks like a bomb, has a kt TNT value never seen before, gets tested like a bomb
>"I didn't know what it was for, I swear"
Curiosity killed lamo2cities and threw us into 60 years of doing not very much aside from creating the largest money gobbling bureaucratic mess ever known to man, more commonly known as NASA.

Ya, thx brostein&co.

>>141304678
>Germans used summer uniforms for winter in Russia so whatever
They didn't so much "uses" as "got stuck with" the summer uniforms. A winter war was never part of the plant, so neither was enough winter equipment.

>>141304702
What I meant was that the scientists and engineers were all caught up with the wartime mentality(kill the enemies, help our boys stay alive, etc.) they didn't really have the perspective of what the bomb would do after the war was over until the bomb already exists.

>>141304702
>>"I didn't know what it was for, I swear"
Didn't the main guy said something quite opposite about it?

>>141304731
Think getting their shit slapped up to the country division wasn't part of the plan as well?
Trying to make a joke here. Cheers.

>>141304768
>be top scientist
>do the math
>not being able to see where this is going
Ya, no, they knew very well what they were creating was going to capable of.

>>141304818
>Didn't the main guy said something quite opposite about it?
Which is why I am pointing out the absurdity of the other anon acting like these scientists didn't know what the A-bomb was going to do to the world. They knew, they might have been sorry afterwards, but they knew.

>>141303836

I read/heard somewhere that there wasn't really any international agreement on what constituted war crimes in aerial warfare back then. Hence why everybody was okay with area bombing civilians.

>>141303603
Funny you say that, the screw was invented to be used to an execution device that would slowly twist a screw into the convict's neck eventually severing the spinal cord.

>>141304902
It is more that it was vaguely defined, which is why shit like Guernica happened. Which despite revisionist memes and Picasso paintings actually had targets of strategic military importance. Lots of shit about human shield vs innocent civilians and where do you draw the line.

>>141304860
Here's a quote from Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!

>After the thing went off, there was tremendous excitement at Los Alamos. Everybody had parties, we all ran around. I sat on the end of a jeep and beat drums and so on. But one man, I remember, Bob Wilson, was just sitting there moping.

>I said, “What are you moping about?”

>He said, “It’s a terrible thing that we made.”

>I said, “But you started it. You got us into it.”

>You see, what happened to me—what happened to the rest of us—is we started for a good reason, then you’re working very hard to accomplish something and it’s a pleasure, it’s excitement. And you stop thinking, you know; you just stop. Bob Wilson was the only one who was still thinking about it, at that moment.

>I returned to civilization shortly after that and went to Cornell to teach, and my first impression was a very strange one. I can’t understand it any more, but I felt very strongly then. I sat in a restaurant in New York, for example, and I looked out at the buildings and I began to think, you know, about how much the radius of the Hiroshima bomb damage was and so forth … How far from here was 34th Street? … All those buildings, all smashed—and so on. And I would go along and I would see people building a bridge, or they’d be making a new road, and I thought, they’re crazy, they just don’t understand, they don’t understand. Why are they making new things? It’s so useless.

>>141304985
I want to believe, I really do, I want you to refute this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw#History.

A "did you know the screw was invented to kill people?" would make for a far better discussion topic than "did you know the Greeks invented yet another thing we still use today?"

>>141297754
Designing a weapon of war isn't a war crime dweeb

>>141304997

If Wikipedia is anything to go by, a large number of Japanese military personnel were killed in Hiroshima. ~20,000.

I guess by "area bombing civilians" I should say "area bombing cities with military targets present because the bombs of that day and age just weren't accurate enough to do anything else.

>>141305023
Well then I concede. I did not know that their realization of what they were doing came so late.

>All this shit taste on the best Ghibli and Miyazaki movie

Fucking amurican retarded kids, stop skipping your stupid classes.
Oh and look out for shooters in school you degenerate fucks.

>>141297889

Cameron, Model

>>141305078
>While a recent hypothesis attributes the Archimedes' screw to Sennacherib, King of Assyria, archaeological finds and pictorial evidence only appear in the Hellenistic period and the standard view holds the device to be a Greek invention, most probably by the 3rd century BC polymath Archimedes.[56][dubious – discuss] Though resembling a screw, this is not a screw in the usual sense of the word.

>Earlier, the screw had been described by the Greek mathematician Archytas of Tarentum (428–350 BC). By the 1st century BC, wooden screws were commonly used throughout the Mediterranean world in screw presses for pressing olive oil from olives and pressing juice from grapes in winemaking. Metal screws used as fasteners were rare in Europe before the 15th century, if known at all.[57]

Well it seems you are right, god damn would have been cool if it were first used in an execution device

>>141305167
To put it in anime terms, they were victims of atmosphere, like in Gatchaman Crowds Insight.

They were fooled by the military propaganda and were convinced that what they were doing is noble and just, only a few actually had the thought "what happens after this is made?", the rest were too busy in doing their jobs.

Funniest thing about it is how much misunderstanding existed between the military and the scientists, funny but grim.

>>141305249
>all that bitterness
>calling children degenerates
American Expat in some South Asian shithole spotted

File: 1404044627132.gif (982KB, 285x171px) Image search: [Google]

982KB, 285x171px

>>141305249

>be american POW
>be in imprisoned in Nagasaki
>war is going good, we are winning
>there is hope
>is that a bird?

>>141305249
Everyone on 4chan is American. They just use proxies/VPN to make it seem like they are posting from Europe or elsewhere.

You got it all figured out.

>>141305374
you should close the internet, build a wall around it or something to ward off the Mongolian hordes that dwell in the far reaches of the netherworld where the concept of freedom does not exist.

>>141304997
If you read doctrine from that period, killing civilians en masse was widely considered a useful propoganda tool, destabilizing the country in order to force a surrender. Strategic bombing, as it was developed and implemented in the 30s and 40s, was designed to both destroy military/industrial output and to demoralize and terrorize the population.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_bombing

>1945
>Live in Nagasaki
>Phone relative in Kokura
>He complains about the weather
>Apparently it is cloudy with a chance of rain
>Mock him, tell him it is sunny here
>Tell him to hold on while I get my sunglasses

>>141305482
Strategic bombing is and was completely normal. Of course it usually involves civilians and thus has the nasty side effect of triggering pacifists and humanists and so on. Unless of course the winner bombs the fuck out of railways and general supply lines which ends up killing people in concentration camps due to lack of supply. That's a lovely was effort.
The idea of war crimes is a joke.

>>141304560
>>141304702
>Curiosity killed lamo2cities and threw us into 60 years of doing not very much aside from creating the largest money gobbling bureaucratic mess ever known to man, more commonly known as NASA.

>prevented the USSR and the US actually starting a full-scale war
>led to the peace between all developed countries we have today
>only wars left are civil wars and wars against terrorists without the resources of an actual nation

>the nuclear bomb was overall a bad thing

shiggy diggy

File: no town.jpg (70KB, 520x640px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 520x640px

>1945
>live in Hiroshima
>work times
>commute to town 2 hours away
>done working
>time to go home
>fail no matter how hard I try to do this

>>141297754
>tfw Anno voiced the MC apparently

I must say it was one of his worst movies

There were some small scenes that had that Ghibli feel, but in general, this movie sucked

>>141305786
He did. Miyazaki needed his autism to pull the character off.

>>141305362
Shut up, Wolverine...

>>141297754
Because his creations were beautiful, despite their use for war. The movie is about Miyazaki's inner conflict regarding this

I actually just saw some program on the History Channel recently with USAF pilots praising the Zero and calling it one of the most beautiful planes ever made, so it's not like it's some crazy Japanese nationalist thing that you should be sensitive about

File: the gate.jpg (37KB, 519x347px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 519x347px

>1945
>Chinese slave worker
>Work in electrics factory
>wires wires all day wires
>at end of day kept in cave
>lots of bats
>need to eat bats to survive
>one day big bang
>hear skies filled with cries
>Only 1 guard in cave
>I know I can kill
>walk out
>Now they've lost me
>My freedom, it lies just beyond...

>>141305303
>talk shit about other countries including Japan all day
>when anyone says anything against MURIKA you fucks instantly rage reply

Fuck you yanks are pathetic.

Why aren't war crimes war crimes when they're committed by American and Israeli troops?

>>141306509
>money coming from the same taxpayers
>he makes a distinction between the two

>>141306509
Shut up mudslime. It's not Israel using children as human shields.

And yes,Israel does horrid shit too,it's just that palastine would fucking genocide Israel if the power balance where to be reversed.

>>141306565
Wars are just like really heated sports events for me. I just root for the one with the uniforms I like the most. With that in mind, I tend to root for Best Korea at every possible opportunity. I hope there's more missile testing soon. I miss those guys and their baller hats.

>>141306655
>would fucking genocide Israel if
I wonder why.

>>141306655
The fact that the hospital, a bunch of residential appartments (where the rockets and mortars will originate from prior to their launch from the rooftop), and a school, all sharing a single high-rise is a direct result of being crammed into a small settlement. These poor sand people were forced into this situation by these other sand people with lots of money. And then these other sand people with lots of money use their crazy huge often illegal weapons on all these poor sand people (with the school and hospital right underneath them) and claim it's in self defense. The world sits by. Meanwhile the US fights wars "against terror" to install whichever regimes are most pro-US and Israel they can. It sickens the rational mind.

>>141306854
>It sickens the rational mind.
So 0 USA citizens.

>>141306699
Have you read any passage in the koran? Every other sentence is about kill muh evil jews.

>>141306655
>It's not Israel using children as human shields.

Well, they certainly didn't strap any Israeli children to the side of that jeep a few years ago, but I think this statement you make is false, friend. :^)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sdnyAgR4bo

>>141306854
It doesn't sicken any rational minds because they realize that both killing each other is the best outcome there can be.

>>141307108
You are very ssd. Stop being so sad. It's sad.

>>141307068
I am saddened to hear that you are following a US educational curriculum.

>>141307084
Post a credible source or fuck off. I never denied Israel does terrible shit too. But they don't outright try to murder every citizen of Palestine,something that would happen the instant Israel became defenseless.

>>141307219
Not American,but nice try retard.

>>141307150
I don't feel like an SSD though, in fact I'm rather slow.

>>141307311
>muh citation needed

You're completely retarded. You can pull hypothetical doomsdays scenarios out your butt all day, but anyone can just look at the scoreboard. The subjugation of these people has been well-documented for decades. And Israeli uniforms are shit. Palestinian civilians aren't even wearing uniforms for me to root for.

>>141307433
>I'm rather slow.
No kidding.

>>141307521
If you're interested in rooting for one site as if it was a sports event, then I don't see what you have against both sites killing each other.

>>141307521
Reminder this isn't /pol/.

>hypothetical doomsdays scenarios
You know that Hamas,the people in power in that shithole,openly state that killing every last jew is their mission,don't you?

>>141302441
You do realize that this film was a fictional biopic?

>>141297754
>the man who design guns is the same as the one who shoot it

Fucking kek'd.

File: 1459624412351.png (505KB, 602x594px) Image search: [Google]

505KB, 602x594px

>>141308051
But if no design gun, no war.

File: 1378025057631.jpg (247KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

247KB, 1280x720px

>>141306462
Americans have trouble reconciling our self-image as the scrappy good guys with the fact that in the end, we were the ones who actually used the science-fiction doomsday weapons.

Why does America glorify theirs?

>>141308467
They like to forget their country is the one and only first world country that has a prison where people are jailed and tortured without a trial.

>>141308051
The man who uses a gun is still not a war-criminal.

>>141305870
>wolverine
>American
Anon...

>>141305301
Aslo, when you are an engineer engaged in a project, it's often very hard to see anything but the specific problems in front of you.

You develop a type of tunnel vision. It gets difficult, even for groups of people, to seen anything but the problem in front of you and the goal of solving it. The real-world implications of your actions only hit you afterwards.

>>141297822
Hey man nice reference.

>>141297754
Still not as bad as the Cockpit. That one really glorified the Japanese Empire while demonizing the West.

>>141297798
>Le einstein built the first bomb
Dude, stop getting your news and pop sci from FB.

>>141303836
He isn't. It's just moral fags who like to call anything war related a "war crime" without taking the legality of the term into account.

>>141303754
Hitler was going to be tried but he killed himself. The trial was most certainly going to execute him so no big dif.

>>141307311
USS liberty

>>141308340
Not really. We went from "scrappy underdog" to "badasses who harnessed the power of the atom and brought the world into a new futuristic age, at least according to forties and fifties propaganda.

>>141313931
The trials at the end of the war were victors justice anyway. The figureheads got executed, the most fucked up were rich enough to get away.

>>141305753
>prevented the USSR and the US actually starting a full-scale war
Good thing.

>led to the peace between all developed countries we have today
Most developed nations are now vassal states of the US and thus in constant war...
>only wars left are civil wars and wars against terrorists without the resources of an actual nation
...against these guys, also known as people from the not developed countries. Also called colonies of the developed countries.

History is a bit more than some memes, anon.

>>141312460
I remember being shown that movie on the bus during a field trip back in 5th grade. Even back then I remember thinking it was kind of offensive.