When did you start appreciating paneling?

>>141146006
My second time reading through JJBA. Maybe it was because I had been reading some particularly shitty series prior.

I remember trying to read some old-ass shoujo manga many years ago. The paneling was a mess, barely any backgrounds and the focus was only on faces and bodies, sparkles and butterflies fucking everywhere. Around then, I guess.

I took it for granted, it wasn't until Gook & Chinese shit started to become popular that that I re-appreciated it when done right.

>>141146006
Never, done right you don't even notice, done poorly and it becomes a chore to read.

>>141146471
you fucker, you appreciate it because you know it ruins everything if done wrong

>>141146006
What do her feet look like OP?

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this chapter of takemitsu zamurai

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>>141146812

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>>141146862

When I read a western comic and was horrified by the sad attempt at paneling (just uniformly laid out squares and rectangles). Really makes you appreciate the variety and effort in manga art.

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>>141146520
like this

the paneling of this thing really took my breath away, the author managed to tell me a story that couldve spanded volumes in a few pages

>>141147093
>the author managed to tell me a story that couldve spanded volumes in a few pages

Whoa so he managed to not drag out and stretch a simple story, what a genius.

>>141146812
>>141146862
>>141146907
But he was doing it intentionally.

Ultra Heaven and Homunculus

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>>141147164
I was giving the pages as an example of good paneling. The thin vertical panel of the guy standing up and turning around really stuck out to me as perfectly framing the scene.

>>141147093
What is a facility home?

>>141147151
no great paneling, managed to distract me from the lewd.

Appreciating good art is nice every now and then

>>141146006
Calvin & Hobbes, probably in 1990. Bill Waterson is a genius, its too bad that he had to wrestle his publisher so hard for every creative execution of paneling we got.

Sure its not manga, but Calvin and Hobbes is always relevant.

Always? artfags are supposed to study this kind of shit, composition is a bitch.

>>141147531
I'm not saying it isn't good paneling just that saying the story "could have taken volumes" is so wild an exaggeration I'm not sure exaggeration is enough to describe it.

I was reading a manga normally one time when I started gradually feeling irritated by how confusing the panel lay-out was.

Then I read a chapter of TLR and I was like "Damn, that's how shit is supposed to be" and from then on I just payed attention to it.

>>141147093
That has nothing to do with paneling and not only that but the author spoonfed everything in a few sentences which is just lazy writing. If you'd know good paneling you'd recognize that this is in fact garbage.

>>141147743
It's porn, so backstory isn't very important.
Though it's getting published as not porn, so your complaints would be relevant then.

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>Read American comic.
>It's like trying to read an excel spreadsheet.
They are like 50 years behind Japan.

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>>141147797

>>141147858
Well, that's literally from 53 years ago.

>>141147797
>>141147858
Ditko's Spiderman has good paneling, he knew what paneling could be.
More recent, Grayson has some really neat pages, and the short Klarion run a few years ago had AMAZING art.

>>141147797
Its the publishers and the formatting rules that aborted any hope good paneling for decades, those rules finally relaxed, but you still see incompetents copying the old style because they don't know any better. The old artists knew better, they just had to fight tooth and nail with publishers to use anything but the most basic layout.

>>141147858
God, it's not even just the panelling. The shot composition is so bland and uninspired. I can't say I've read much capeshit but from more recent stuff I've glanced at, it doesn't look like it's improved much. Ugly colouring and uncreative layouts everywhere.

>>141146006
I don't, though I should. I speedread too often. I loved the paneling in Phoenix though.

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>>141147797
Then make your own comic and show us faggette

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>>141148021
It's like they just care about the dialog without any concern for the visuals.

>>141146006
Never. I am blind to this kind of things.

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>>141148090
Nigga that's well drawn, and I like the warm pallet colors.

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>>141147797
Most American comics suck dick. There's a few really good authors, though.

>>141148157
Well draw =/= good reading flow

>>141148205
>good reading flow
wut

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What manga/light novel/etc. would /a/ like to see drawn in a comic artist artstyle
my pick
>Any old cake fest
>Stanley Lau

>>141148157
If each panel was judged individually it might be nice art, but this is a comic and technical skills alone don't make it easy on the eyes. It's flat and crowded looking with no sense of movement.

>>141148330
I want to see Alex Ross draw All Might

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>>141147797
some of them are really good... every once in a while. Manpaul is a fucking monster, for example.

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>>141146006
around the time I first read some of FUMI Fumiko's stuff.

>>141148623
/r/ing that /co/ screencap of evil flash being the cause of everything bad.

>>141146006
What happened to the SFW version of that manga?

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>>141148254
The eyes are attracted to certain angles, to faces, to certain contrasts and patterns.
Even if something has good anatomy and colors it doesn't means that the whole page flows well, because paneling also determines time flow.

Example from the same page. I'm reading the fourth panel and then I jump to the one bellow. I'm reading from left to right but the events on this panel are easier to understand from right to left so I get confused. I see the 3 first before 2, then I gotta go to 4 to see what the guy is doing and then to 5-6 to see the reaction of the fat guy. I had to zig zag too much for such a simple scene. Absolutely no flow.

A panel is not just a photograph but more like a timeline. The order of the balloons determines the timing and the length of the actions of the characters.

>>141146006
When I read Dresden Codak and it was a completely unreadable clusterfuck.

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>>141148682

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>>141148833
Holy fuck.

>>141148744
Chapter 1 came out and we got shitty watermarked gook scans. At least some of it got translated

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>>141148845
>IT WAS ME BARRY, I SHIT YOUR PANTS
everytime

>>141148939
I'm guessing is
>Left to right
>Up to bottom

>>141148983
It's not definitive. Steranko designed the page to be read from any direction.

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>>141148623
I love Flash comics.

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>>141146006
I've always liked the panelling in Ah My Goddess. It's just clean, simple, and unobtrusive.

There's plenty of fucking awful panelinsts in manga, I don't know why you idiots are treating it as a comics thing by picking examples out of fucking garbage capeshit.

>>141149006
>>141148845
Hahaha holy shit. I need to read some flash comics.

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>>141149068
I guess we got derailed.

Pic related is one of my favorites.

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Last western one for me

>>141148910
>It's fine, Vonnie.
>You're not here to haggle yo- er, Fluke skul[l]duggery won't keep me from getting my science license. I've got moxy.
>Kim, I don't think you quite understand how this works.
>And if the DOI deems you qualified, you'll- er, I wonder if I'll get a lab in a tower. I like towers.

This is a crime.

>>141149237
>firing the ENTIRE BULLET
who let this man have Cave Johnson's gun?

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I think Nihei can do a pretty great job of shot/panel composition. The little details all over the place are really charming.

>>141149301
Maybe it's some kind of railgun that he loaded with bullets, and the electricity didn't set off the primer or powder?

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This author's scenes really seem to come to life with the way characters will burst out of the panel.

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This was the first thing I ever read that really felt like it justified the infinite canvas to me.

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As edgy as it is, TG can get creative sometimes.

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Did the translations for this ever finish?
If not, can we get some frog anons to translate this?

>>141148845
Closest we're ever gonna get that level of assholery is Dio and he's nowhere near as powerful.

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putting the emphasis/dragging out certain scenes is huge in comedy manga too

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>>141147797
>>141147858
I don't know why I picked Countdown to Final Crisis for an example.

Mob Psycho has some decent panelling in some chapters; can't give any examples right now , though.

>>141149504
Indefinite hiatus.

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meta

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Simple paneling is best

>>141149681
One is really great at panelling. He knows how to make a joke land.

>>141149336
>Nihei

I haven't read Knights of Cydonia but Blame is some of the messiest fucking shit I've ever read.

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>>141148818
Like this?

>>141149429
Read "Prequel", that shitty mspaint comic about the cat thing from oblivion.

The shit the guy does with the "paneling" sometimes is pretty mindblowing.

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>>141146006
When I started reading HxH.

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>>141146006
Gunsmith Cats vol.1.
This sequence in particular.

>>141150026
You're already better than 90% of Marvel's artists

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Can't speak of paneling without Osamu Tezuka
This scan is read left to right btw

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>>141146006
Shintaro Kago, actually. Some of the stuff he did with "Labyrinth" and other similar works is fucking mindblowing.

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>>141150227

>>141150053
I used to read it, actually, but dropped it at some point out of forgetfulness. I'll pick it up again someday, Kazerad knows what he's doing for sure.

>>141150227
It's just kind of amazing how consistent he was. So much work, so much good.

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>>141150074
HxH made me really think about it too, because after hearing non stop that it has shit art, Togashi can't draw etc I was impressed when I actually read it. And I was mad that /a/'s shit opinions kept me from it for so long, the guy knows how to compose a page even when he's scribbling.

>>141146297
>shoujo

This. Shoujo mangaka have the most god awful page layouts ever.

>>141150525
>>141146297
Aren't most shoujo mangaka women?

>>141150554
I'd say female mangaka had trash paneling, but most of the ones doing material for seinen and shounen audiences are fine.

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>>141146006
Horikoshi have some nice paneling.

>>141150554
Of all the things in manga that could be affected by gender, panelling isn't one of them. It's trend driven more than anything, for shoujo at least.

>>141150525
>>141150554
>>141150678
>so completely misunderstanding shoujo

Like holy shit.

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>>141150712
*nice use of paneling

>>141146006
I just do.

Not enough to usually praise it, though enough to notice when it's bad or basic. Hitomi-sensei by Shake-O is really good with its paneling and general mangacraft.

>>141150678
>>141150525
Someone post Kaze Ki.

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>>141150846

>>141147797
It's amazing to me that (to my knowledge) America pretty much popularized the comicbook format, but at the same time most comicbooks are fucking TRASH in terms of presentation.

Maybe it's because they have to worry about coloring everything. No, that doesn't make sense or excuse it. It's just bad.

Mostly.

>>141150916
Coloring is more a tradition than anything.

>>141148007
That reminds me, are two-page spreads much of/at all a thing with western comics? I never see any.

>>141150767
Stain did nothing wrong.

>>141150950
I think there was a four page spread in this one recent Green Lantern comic book.

>>141150950
A ton.

>>141150972
Steranko did the first four page spread back on white Nick Fury

>>141150916
You're correct, the US popularized comic books with anthologies like Fun Comics, although british newspapers were the first to really sell the idea of comics. I'd argue that it's no better or worse, percentage wise, than anywhere else, but that there are distinctly fewer comics competitors in the states than in Japan.

>>141150943
It's one of the worst things about it, god forbid they use a little white space

>>141151071
No white spaces, just flat colored backgrounds like the good ol days.

>>141150745
>>141150894
Look, not everyone in that bunch is bad, but you've surely experienced that feeling of reading a shoujo manga where the paneling is so bizarre that you need to read the same page twice, wondering if it suddenly changed reading order.

>>141151145
I've experienced that with manga that wasn't shoujo as well. It's not any more prevalent there, but people feel like it is because Shoujo has a different set of tools that the Year 24's revolutionized.

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>>141148090
Is it so hard to just make a basic page look interesting for most comic artists? Or maybe most just don't give a shit because it's just a job.

Stuff like the flow of the page, what's focused on, panel sizes -- shit, man.

I guess it just perplexes me, but to be fair the manga industry is MUCH larger/more diverse than the comic book industry. Maybe because of how that industry works, so many artists could foster interesting presentation techniques.

>>141150026
yes actually

that looks a whole fucking lot better

>>141151221
>but to be fair the manga industry is MUCH larger/more diverse than the comic book industry
The problem is this, plus the nepotism inherent in an oligarchy

>>141146006
Dragon Ball.

When I realized that horrible paneling actually makes things impossible to read.

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>>141148090
>It's like they just care about the dialog without any concern for the visuals.

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>>141151284

>>141151399
There was a period of about two months in high school where I thought this guy was good.

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>>141151399

>>141151221
I'm sure they're capable, but messing with the status quo and going against trends/traditions/expectations isn't always easy. Manga just seems to allow for more variety and creativity, it's cheaper and sells better so they've got wiggle room.

>>141149068
Prolly cause there's many more good artists in manga than there are in comics.

Which is a natural conclusion because there are simply MORE artists, period, in manga than there are in comics.

>>141151399
I was going to make a Nisioisin joke but that'd be a bit too much of an insult to him, I think.

>>141151460
Well even when you go into independent stuff unfettered by publishing houses it's not much better overall.

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>>141151441
>>141151421
It's some real horrfying shit.

>>141149429
Good taste

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Think it was a year or two in after I found online manga and then tried out some /co/ stuff. The action looked really dull compared to action manga then I noticed the difference in presentation. I was going to post some Biscuit Hammer but Mizukami's most standout panels were much later into Sengoku Youko and Spirit Circle. Also, Kubo's pretty damn good at it too. It's not as noticeable if you're reading on a computer as opposed to a physical book.

>>141150053
He's more using the formless power of the internet to his advantage. Most of his stuff is basic adventure format.

That said, when he gets interesting, he gets REALLY interesting.

>>141151506
Yeah. Too bad there aren't any magazines in the west that serialize comics.

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love this guy

>>141151595
>formless power of the internet
This is basically the definition of the infinite canvas, yeah?

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>>141150554

Female mangakas only have decent paneling when make manga version of LNs or Animes.

>>141151632
There are a handful, but no one seems to be trying to imitate the WSJ style cheap and plentiful concept.

>>141151661
You're just wrong.

>>141151640
The standard "infinite canvas" is still strictly within a certain space and dimensions. Kazerad does stuff that only works because of programming where the confines of the "comic" space are literally broken. Few creators actually do that kind of thing.

>>141151682
I hope you aren't talking newspapers, plus wasn't getting your story published in Playboy and Penthouse like a good way to get readers back then?

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Jiro Matsumoto can do some pretty neat things.

>>141151719
I'm talking about stuff like 2000 AD

>>141151632
It just wouldn't work. Our culture dictates that comics are strictly for nerds. They're popular as fuck, make for blockbusting movies, but only nerds read comics.

It's not like Japan where anyone reads manga.

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>>141151731
Loved the sequencing in this part.

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>>141151731
What the fuck am I looking at
I can't fucking read it for some reason

>>141151755
This is only, really, a recent development, and our comic culture began as anthologies, too. We drifted away mostly thanks to the Comics Authority wreaking havoc on what publishers were willing to sell.

>>141151772
try reading it left to right.

>>141151441
I'm more unnerved that I understood this to be Chitanda than I am just looking at it.

>>141151791
The what?

I am curious about this. I always thought it was pure nerd crap except for perhaps a period in the 80s where the cartoons were good enough and the comics good enough and the culture weird enough that most 80s children still have an actual fondness for comics.

>>141151927
Civil War was done ten years ago. You're about right with BvS's source material though.

>>141151908
Not even close. Comics started out as just that, comic shorts in large anthologies. This gained some traction and people started testing out other genres. Superheroes popped up around this time, and were popular, but only really dominated for a bit during WWII. Action Adventure, Horror, Romance, and other genres were all extremely popular, and it was the Horror, especially, that caused problems. Eventually, old-timey soccer moms got worried about how grotesque some of these comics were and complained. A book was written about the effects, and presented to congress. The research was well-intentioned garbage, but the comics companies, afraid of being regulated by the government, said they'd put their own standards into place. They created the Comics Code Authority, which implemented self-censorship. This killed off pretty much everything even remotely violent, leaving behind only the genres best capable of adapting. As it turned out, this was superheroes, who turned into silver age comics and took over the medium.

>>141151927
>>141151946
I may just be a curmudgeonly hipster asshole, but I just completely can't understand the appeal of this "cinematic universe" thing.

I should probably actually watch one of the movies before casting judgment, but even trailers look full of shit that looks terrible to me.

Probably the only thing that ever caught my eye was Guardians of the Galaxy. That looked fun. Everything else just looks like a bunch of stuff I hate about cape comics.

>>141151927
I know that was a frog but common

Gantz and the whole "build up to fuckhuge panel with everything on it"

>>141152014
Is the appeal of a crossover. Nothing more than that really. The quality of the movies are independent of the character universes, you can just watch anyone and enjoy it without problem.

>>141151996
Oh my fucking god, that's fucking awful. No wonder the creativity of comics are in such dire straights. I'm stunned some of the more controversial and famous comics actually came into existence at all in a state like this.

I guess the standards changed enough over time that you could get stuff like, what, Sandman? I hear that's fucked up.

>>141152014
Crossovers are fun, but you said it yourself. You don't like capeshit.

>>141152096
Or anything written by Garth Ennis.

>>141152096
Basically what happened was the CCA's guidelines eventually became obviously stupid. The US, asked the big two to make some anti-drug comics, for example, and they wouldn't do it because they couldn't stamp anything with mention of drugs on it with the CCA stamp. Stan Lee is usually credited with being the guy to really say, Fuck it, and just start publishing comics without CCA approval.

>>141152017
>posting a frog and a feels man on a post about Western comics/movies
Of all the things you could blame the mods for deleting unnecessarily, that isn't one of them.

>>141151632
What about BD?

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>using ruler
lol casual

>>141152171
das it mane

>>141152077
>>141152101
I am fine with a special and rare crossover, or an insane level crossover like Smash Bros was (it's gotten seriously out of hand with 4), but the way capeshit goes about crossovers has always seemed like something I could only deem as masturbatory. Too much. It's too much.

I was probably interested in Guardians because even though it's based on something it was something I hadn't heard of and it was standalone. Was. I know it's just another part.

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>>141152171

>>141152131
Too bad it seems like at this point what damage has been done is irreversible.

Well, I say too bad, but I bet I'd always prefer manga. Very few comics I've actually read and liked in my time.

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>>141152171
This looks really good.

>>141152189
It fits with the art style.

>>141152188
As long as you can tell a good story without letting the fanservice take over, I'm okay with that. The problem is that very few comic book events can manage that and that's where you get that masturbatory feeling from.

>>141152231
But that was strictly an American thing though.

>>141152231
It's really not, especially as we move into the digital age. One of the biggest things holding comics back is the comic book store, which encourage a small incestuous base of readers. It's the same thing you see with moe anime, where the otaku support it almost singlehandedly and lower the quality. Comics will be around forever as a medium, and webcomics are already starting to push people more towards interesting work. Stand Still Stay Silent is a good example.

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>>141149429
>infinite canvas
my favorite page
fucking size limit

>>141152305
Yeah, mine was cut down from the original size to include the best part.

>>141152301
Can you not subscribe to comic books?

>>141152334
Mostly, they're just too expensive. An issue of WSJ is usually cheaper than one American comic book and has 10-15 times as much content. The model has to change.

>>141152371
And nobody seems to care about digital distribution and actually paying for it.

>>141152423
In comics, the numbers are rising. I don't like to admit it, but I think paper's days are numbered. I expect all media to be digital within my life time.

>>141152460
Even manga's becoming digital. I still like reading on paper though.

>>141149805
Desu. Kui Ryoko's paneling is god-tier.

>>141152488
Same, I'm gonna be sad to see it go.

>>141152301
I dunno, to me there seem to be too few good examples. SSSS is good, as you mentioned, and although its release is too slow for my liking I like Unsounded. Aside from that...can't really think of much of anything I like.

Paranatural almost was something I thought I'd love but for various reasons it fell out of my favor. I'd like to be optimistic about the western comic scene but I'd need many more good examples to actually feel that way.

>>141152519
I think the main issue is that no one has really done a great job of trying to build a digital comic, proper. There are lot of individual comics, with their own erratic schedules, but someone should put together a group of talented individuals and have a weekly anthology that people can subscribe to and read on their phone. Pay a certain amount per comic, or a set amount for the whole thing. Piracy would obviously be an issue, but I doubt it would be a big one if you were basically selling a black and white version for super cheap on a weekly basis, and then sold color trades as physical copies.

>>141152653
True that would probably be a good idea.

As I'd mentioned, release schedules are an issue for me and I bet for a lot of people. Webcomics that are actual long stories just are NOT fucking good for the "every couple of days, a single page" format. It makes sense for ad revenue or whatever but it sucks as an experience.

Your idea could actually possibly work out, but you'd need someone crazy enough and with enough money to try it in the first place.

>>141152728
Mostly, I think, you need connections. You get one or two big names, and a bunch of talented nobodies, and you cut them in for shares of the company instead of pay. Basically, the Image model, but digital.

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This is a good thread.

Recently I started Golgo 13 and really love the paneling. I wish somebody would pick it up again.

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>>141152519
Have you read Evan Dahm's stuff?

>>141152858
150+ volumes is too daunting.

>>141146006
Not from manga that's for sure. 99% of Mangaka out there put next to no effort in paneling which is why confusing, garbled and ugly sequences are so extremely common in manga.

>>141149429
>>141152305
>infinite canvas
I'm interested in this. Is this only ever applied to korean webcomic?

I've read Annarasumanara but that's it.

>>141153037
It was a really huge thing among the American webcomics community during the mid 00's, but I dont' know how much it gets explored these days. Korea's got its own style and explores it heavily, but Annarasumanara is probably the only one I've ever read that I thought was great.

>>141152881
Oh yeeaah

Yes, I have. I often forget about him because I don't want to read anything he makes while he's making it. Rice Boy was incredible.

>>141153037
the koreans have been the leaders in it as of late. but it snot exclusive and they didn't invent it.

Because they're webcomics are meant to be scrolled and click page clicked for ad revenue it developed quite nicely.

I like how it gives the illusion of animation

>>141152881
What's that pic from?

>>141153110
Saucefags are the lowest form of life

>>141152608
is this fujimi lovers
what a great concept turned into an entirely mediocre series

>>141153139
I still like it, although it seems like it might have been canned without resolution.

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>>141153164

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>>141153192

>>141153164
>>141153192
>>141153215
Fucking Shintaro Kago. Made me appreciate guro even though I used to detest it.

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>>141153164
>>141153192
>>141153215

>>141153159
checking the comments on batoto, they claim it ended but i couldnt find any raws

when i was reading it, shit got tired quick after 4 chapters since the pacing was tiring and you almost expected the same conclusion after a while.

maybe if he had stretched out each arc kinda like how the rezero manga did it, it would be less tiring.

>>141153164
>>141153192
>>141153215
Wow.

>>141153164
>>141153192
>>141153215
'mazing

>>141151399
I'm not supposed to read all that right?

>>141153164
>>141153192
>>141153215

N-NANI?

>>141147797
I'd rather take the straight forward approach that many western comics have over the nigh unreadable garbage that manga becomes as soon as there's even remotely complex action on he panels.

>>141148157
> putting the bubles of text where the light here.

What the fuck are they even thinking, this shit becomes so hard to read, as if the typo wasn't shitty enough already.

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>>141153037
With most Korean comics ("webtoons", they call them...which is honestly dumb) it sucks. It sucks a lot.

With most, it's like this
<<<

Night void of creativity. The idea is supposed to be that motion is conveyed from your scrolling, but it's just shitty.

It is not always bad, but often.

>>141153215
Shintaro Kago is a brilliant motherfucker, but I can't read his work without being sick.

>>141153215
>second to last panel
lucky guy

>>141153215
>>141153192
>>141153164
3 dimensional and it recycles panels.
Amazing.

>>141153320
Not sure what you mean by recycle here.

>>141153215
>>141153192
>>141153164
Holy shit, as if I didn't love him enough already.

>>141153301
Stop reading bad manga.

>>141153332
The panels as boxes are "reused" for the next one, the things from the previous panels are still there.
Water, characters, etc.

>>141153391
Oh good. Just making sure.

>>141148845
my sides

>>141153164
>>141153192
>>141153215
madman

>>141153301
desu this is why I stick to anime the vast majority of the time. I dropped Medaka Box recently because the fights were a chore to follow

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tfw, no one here mentioned hox's blog post
http://hoxtranslations.blogspot.ca/2014/08/some-thoughts-about-webtoons-and.html

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The webcomic of One Punch Man is a good series to examine if you want to see how important good paneling can be.

Even though the art can obviously be pretty bad in places, ONE has such a fantastic grasp of paneling and how to make smart use of the comic medium. His limited artistic skills become an almost non issue, especially in the Monster Association arc.

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>>141153487
pic 2

>>141153496
People say this all the time, but I just don't see it.

>>141153301
>>141153440
see >>141153487

what the fuck are niggers even doing?

I hope you aren't speed reading or trying to flip through fights to simulate animation instead of paying attention to details

manga =/= webtoons

>>141153532
How? ONE just does good work there. At no point is anything confusing, even with his rough art. That's pretty astonishing.

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>>141150009
Biomega reads like a storyboard

>>141153592
Bad art doesn't necessarily make things confusing. I mean, I can still tell what his characters are doing even by looking at an individual panel, It's just aesthetically unpleasing. Ther's no ambiguity that his paneling really needs to clea up, and neither is there anything really exceptional about his composition's aesthetics, at least in my opinion.

>>141153541
You better not be shit talking flip o rama

>>141153164
>>141153192
>>141153215

This is fucking crazy.

>>141153541
The effort required to follow conversations is extremely minimal in both comic and manga. That comparison is worthless. I'm talking about works that have constant action. A fuck ton of Manga artists are incredibly messy and fill their panels with absolutely hideous effects to mask their lack of skill and they also pay very little attention to the flow of battle and constantly try to stick way too much in one page of action.

Comics are light years ahead manga when it comes to action and readability.

>>141153646
Fuck, my 'r' key seems to be having some issues.

>>141153646
Bad art inherently makes it harder to follow action, because you have to get across actual flow to the reader. ONE overcomes this with good paneling and weight.

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And then people asks me why I don't read more comics. Manga panneling is so fucking much better and enjoyable to read. Most of the time a comic is a pain to read, that shit shouldn't happen.

Another example, tried to read McKean's batman comic recently, and holy shit that fucking Joker font.

It's not just the art too, how they usually overuse dark shadows everywhere (especially on the faces) is annoying as fuck. The worst part is that some artists like Khota Hirano and Boichi uses them really well, but I can't say the same for comics.

>>141153164
>>141153192
>>141153215
You know, I can respect Shintaro Kago. I really can.

However, I think I am seriously not a fan of his work at ALL. He is actually too fucking weird for me, and often disturbing.

>>141147939
Go read something from Garo or Tezuka from 50 years ago and compare that.

>>141153672
Are you sure you mean follow? I'd agree that obviously it's less impactful, but I wouldn't say it inherently makes it harder to follow.

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>>141153621
Cont.

I don't know if this counts as paneling or pacing, but Nihei figured out of to perfectly visual split-second actions over several pages.

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Sup

>>141153707
Just, ewww.

>>141153693
>>141153314
>>141153229
>all these people who can't handle black-and-white cartoon gore
Seriously /a/?

>>141153707
Why the hell are they even doing that? Are they just trying to be "original" and have their own "personal" look?

>>141149429
One of the few that ever did use the shitty webtoon format at least decently. Nearly all the remainder are just whitespace galore. Nothing happens.

>>141153095
It's for mobile users.

>>141153698
It's actively hard to follow. It's easy to fuck up an action scene, especially when you don't have color to differentiate objects in panels. If you go back and read stuff like early Jojo, it can be very easy to lose the train of what's going on in a fight, because it all starts to blur together. Most of the time, a reader will just sort of glaze over that and move on, because that's basic communication, but it's never an issue in ONE's stuff, every action is completely clear.

>>141153729
It's not really meant to be handled.

In many ways, Kago is a deliberately provoking artist.

>>141153707
> that right hand

I don't think that how you should carry something heavy.

>>141153735
It's meant to be read by scrolling down a phone.

>>141153660
I think that has more to do with art.

You have to remember that a lot of manga are rushed out the door every single week. That's why I said before that most manga are little more than doodles. The truly good art in manga mostly comes from monthlies or from the rare super skilled genius who is able to put out weekly action series that actually looks okay.

That's why I almost never read manga aside from a few monthlies here and there. Anime >>>>>> messy black and white doodles

>>141153718
>>141153735
Fucking korean manwha man.
One of the reason why I can't into Tower of God.

>>141153729
I love his work.
Its a shame so many people are turned off by all the surface gore and scat, because once you get past that, he's great.

>>141153757
Fuck can't unsee

>>141153768
But anon, the average anime typically has worse art than the manga it's adapted from.

>>141153768
There's a lot more out there that you're ignoring, and most anime looks like trash, too, even if it's easier to follow.

>>141153767
> only adapted to be read on a tiny device

What a waste. The usual format is perfectly adapted for tablets and computers, what the hell are they thinking.

>>141153660
I feel like you don't read that much manga.

>>141153767
I'm pretty sure even mobile phone scum don't need miles and miles of blank space.

>>141153795
>worse art
I'm not sure I can back this statement entirely. If you're talking mistakes and QUALITY or the unnecessary animefication that happens (see: Parasyte) to make all anime look so uniform, you might have a point.

>>141153814
It's a different format. It looks a lot better than the standard format on a smartphone screen, there's no need to zoom in for details or anything. That said, it's still pretty bad a lot of the time, because webtoons are largely put together by amateurs with no real training.

>>141153729
I can't handle body horror at all. Kago's close enough to it that it still fucks me up.

>>141153729
I did say I can appreciate them after reading Kago's works. Especially ero guro.

>>141153831
What else would he be referring to? Anime has worse art, and makes up for it through movement and color.

>>141153729
Who knows. /a/ are just pussies. Or little girls.

>>141153831
I mean they generally have to cut on detail and streamline stuff, since they have a limited budget and are drawing ~10000 frames an episode instead of the few hundred panels that episode probably adapts.

>>141153865
me on the right

>>141153861
>>141153875
It's a consistency issue for sure. You might find something pretty good, and then see it fucking reused every time, just you know because they have to.

>>141153531
I keep meaning to read this, then keep forgetting.

>>141152494
Award winners usually are (or nominees). Ashizuri Aquarium is a fucking must for anyone who has a real appreciation for manga.

Hiroaki Samura and Blade of the Immortal made me realize just how shitty most manga art is. Fights in BOTI flow beautifully and never is the reader confused. Then you go pick up JoJos or SnK or Bleach and it's like wtf lmao I'm not going to fuck my eyes up trying to decipher this trash and that's why I stopped reading manga

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>>141146006
I want to read more manga from this artist.

>>141153988
It's funny how everyone talking about how they quit manga because of bad fights types like a crossboarder and seems to mainly read shitty battle shounen.

>>141153988
It took until Part 7 for Araki to make fight scenes look comprehensible.

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No mention of Palepoli? For shame. For shame. Mastery of the 4koma.

>>141153988
>stopped reading mangaentirely because he read a few bad manga
your lost senpai

>>141153541
>>manga =/= webtoons
and thank god for that

>>141153795
Anime definitely had a uniform style that's in many cases reduced a bit in detail compared to the source material. However, the fact that you're pretending the average manga isn't a rushed out the door weekly series with extremely little detail and 3D backgrounds tells me you're either baiting or too stupid and ignorant to seriously engage.

>>141153988
>it's like wtf lmao
You will immediately cease and not continue to access the site if you are under the age of 18.

>>141146812
>>141146862
>>141146907
>>141147164
>>141147469
Zamurai is a work of art.

>>141154065
Why are you reading average manga?

>>141153988
Well for the most part, I don't read a lot of action manga anymore. Certainly stopped reading most things shit out weekly or in popular magazines.

>>141154080
Thank you sir.

>>141154065
Does anyone have statistics on how many manga/magazines actually run weekly vs monthly vs whatever? MU doesn't provide that information, which is shit.

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>>141154035
Furuya's older works are pure art

>>141153707
Who the fuck thought leaving this much white space on a comic was a good idea.

>>141154106
Same. I stopped reading action manga long ago. The manga I read now a days are either ecchi/romance/comedy or drama/psychological stuff.

>>141153699
dude, that's awesome

>>141154106
I should say, modern things shit out weekly or in popular magazines. Some of the guys of yore were fucking insane back in the day like Tezuka.

>>141153867
Are you even supposed to read that? What an obnoxious font.

>>141154035
Off-topic, but does anyone else get really bugged when scanlators do vertical text from left to right within the box/bubble, like they do in the second box on the first panel here? It fucks me up every time.

>>141154135
>actually
You meant that actually stick to magazine's schedule or in general?

>>141153867
WHAT

>>141153660
>Comics are light years ahead manga when it comes to action and readability.
wew

>>141153707
>>141152305
>>141149429

the infinite canvas is best for readability
if not for per click / per page ads it probably wouldve taken off

the korean manwha are using it for mobile devices so maybe itll catch on again when people figure out how amazing it is

imagine japanese style paneling with the infinite canvas, not having to be boxed into a page

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>>141154188
Good question.

>>141154183
To be fair, the amount of detail in art has gone up an awful lot since the 60s.

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>>141147797
>>141147858
>>141148090
Interesting study on comparing manga panelling with American comic panelling.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3449338/

>Research on visual attention has shown that Americans tend to focus more on focal objects of a scene while Asians attend to the surrounding environment.
>The panels of comic books – the narrative frames in sequential images – highlight aspects of a scene comparably to how attention becomes focused on parts of a spatial array.
>Thus, we compared panels from American and Japanese comics to explore cross-cultural cognition beyond behavioral experimentation by looking at the expressive mediums produced by individuals from these cultures.
>This study compared the panels of two genres of American comics (Independent and Mainstream comics) with mainstream Japanese “manga” to examine how different cultures and genres direct attention through the framing of figures and scenes in comic panels.
>Both genres of American comics focused on whole scenes as much as individual characters, while Japanese manga individuated characters and parts of scenes.
>We argue that this framing of space from American and Japanese comic books simulate a viewer’s integration of a visual scene, and is consistent with the research showing cross-cultural differences in the direction of attention.

tl;dr Japanese panels are more focused than American ones.

>>141154200
Or tl;dr American comics are much more readable to the eye than Japanese manga and thus its way easier to focus on not just specific objects but the entire scene as well

>>141148157
well drawn or not, captain marvel has the shittiest design

>>141154032
I thought the point of most of JJBA was that it was largely incomprehensible.

>>141154208
Either would be fine. I just want a general grasp, because that anon's implication that it's largely weekly feels off-base to me.

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>>141154239
>>141154200

>>141154255
fite me fagit

>>141154204
I know. I told Hox how fucking annoying it was. The manga itself is just as jarring (in a good way) as the vertical text, so it was the easier thing to get used to.

>>141154233
I agree. But it's not necessarily the good kind of detail. Like all the dumbass copypasted backgrounds and shit done by incompetent assistants. At the same time, I think a lot of people prided themselves more in their craft. I look at the backgrounds by Mizuki and there's just so much more love there.

>>141147797
>>141154239
>https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0vtKqkt0q-bNTk1MzlhMmYtMmMyNS00Yzc3LTgzMDEtMjEzNDI3ZmZjMzAx/view

Good book and covers mango as well

>>141154221
He's really proud of that Joker in the bottom right. Third time I've seen it.

>>141154219
>imagine japanese style paneling with the infinite canvas, not having to be boxed into a page
That sounds like shit. The page is like a giant panel, it's a visual unit that you fill out knowing exactly how the reader will look at it. Taking that away limits the author's ability to determine how the content is viewed.

>>141154239
I find it interesting that most comic books tend to have some level of detail in all of their panels while a lot of manga don't bother with backgrounds in some of their panels.

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>>141154312
Yeah.

Anyone have stuff from Hiroaki Samura?

>>141154312
>>141154326
I think it's the color difference. Panels like this one would be more confusing with a background, but without color to differentiate objects.

>>141154312
That's because they know how to give focus. Backgrounds will just distract you in some situations.

>>141154294
So much more love than what, though? I mean, we're talking an industry of thousands and thousands of creators here, obviously it's going to vary Look at some of Tsutomu Takahashi's weekly stuff and tell me he's not taking pride in his craft. Or Innocent, or Air Gear, etc. There's plenty of good, dedicated art in weekly magazines, even in recent times.

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>>141154348
That's what tones are here for though. Again for this one >>141154326 it was because it wouldn't fit the action.

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when i read bleach for the first time

>>141154396
I guess that's really the difference. There's way more artists and it's a lot more diluted I feel. Maybe I'm just a stickler about screentone.

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>>141154399
Even then, it's all black and white. This seems to me like a good example of a page that would be without a background if it were in manga.

What are some comic books that love to abuse spreadshots and massive fucking panels like in manga?

>>141154439
How does the raw looked like?

>>141154476
Calvin and Hobbes has great spreads.

>>141154353
I guess that makes sense in dialogue heavy scenes but not action scenes like >>141154326. A background would only serve to show the setting of what's happening and won't be as distracting.

>>141153699
picked up
reading this right here right now

>>141154462
Not really if you ask me.

I guess it largely depends on the author's whims.

If he want you to really pay attention to what this giant guy is doing, he might draw a background, but not as detailed.

>>141154265
From my personal observation on some Kodansha magazines, bi/weekly magazines give some freedom to their authors. Like, some weekly manga will be only in two-three issues out of four per month, for example. I don't know whether it's due to deadlines, people getting tired or just simple lack of available space in magazine, though. As for monthlies, they do have series that are published irregularly or bimonthly, yes. Historie, for example, is published bimonthly, and whenever new volume is about to be published Iwaaki takes a break to finish drawing the stuff for it.
There might be some Japanese blog about all this, but I don't know of such one. You can get more info on Japanese wiki, it usually list stuff that's being published irregularly or on hiatus.

>>141154521
A background would lessen the impact of that scene, I feel.

>>141154532
wants*

>>141154462
If it was manga, it would probably have speed lines instead of backgrounds. Honestly, that looks flat as fuck.

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There's a reason this went around OPT for so many years. Fuck Koreans and their switch to webtoons.

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>>141154337
Samura really doesn't have outstanding paneling.


Everything else is pretty much god-tier tho.

Sad that his best art is horrific abuse porn.

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So, I really don't know anything about art or panels. But I really like this page. Am I a scrub?

>>141154148
EWWW

>>141154654
nah, the panels are good at directing the eye through the sequence of the combat.

>>141154521
But if you've been reading the manga, you'll know what the setting is. The action, as in the sequence of this person did this and that was the result, is there, and it's not jostling for space background elements that serve no real purpose. The whole shape of the image there, with the big spiral, leads the eye in a certain direction, between a small object and a large one. An intrusive background would diminish that.

This is one of my main problems with mainstream American comics, they clutter up every frame with background that really has no visual purpose. It's not there to add to the visual scheme, and it competes with the art.

>>141149237
I miss moon knight

>>141154719
While you do make a good point, I was more annoyed with this aspect when it was more prevalent during the Golden Age and Silver Age of Comic Books, mostly because the backgrounds are just flat colors.

>>141154719
I think part of it's the color, honestly. Not only is it all colored, but they don't seem to like soft tones much, so everything in the background always stands out and interferes, whereas in manga your background is going to have a ton of white space and won't dominate so much.

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"Me and the Devil Blues" had some sweet panelling too, if I recall.

>>141154849
Goddamn that stitch.

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>>141154617
>Sad that his best art is horrific abuse porn.
I have no idea what you are talking about.

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>>141154462
no that is a good example of how japan made manga 100 years ago

>>141154884
I searched, but I don't have a reaction image to properly convey my emotions here.

>>141154884
Absolute god with a pencil.

>>141154521
>A background would only serve to show the setting of what's happening and won't be as distracting.
But the previous pages (should) already do that. No need to be so redundant about it. You're supposed to focus on that thing the character did so the artist removed all distraction ie the background.

>>141154884
I can feel my vagina clenched, even though I don't have one

>>141154884
Funnily enough, one of the more work safe drawings in that artbook.

It's a shame that his current series is incredibly mediocre.

>Neil Gaiman
Sandman is easily my favourite comic book series.

>>141154920
Too bad he's lazy as fuck.

>>141154991
meant to reply to >>141148173

>>141154239
>Styles in genres of Japanese comics also vary (Schodt, 1983, 1996; Gravett, 2004), but primarily conform to the stereotypical style of big eyes, pointy chins and noses, and big hair.
Welp. Somehow I also don't think the hipster, alt scene is smaller than the US.

>However, since genres in Japan do not align neatly with those in America (Shonen “boys comics,” Shojo “girls comics,” and Gekiga “serious comics”), books were chosen that reflected the genre closest to Mainstream American comics – those focusing primarily on action/adventure themes (Shonen “boys comics”)
Hurr durr. Great job invalidating a lot of the study by looking only at shonen. It's funny how they liken mainstream to simply shonen. They don't even mention seinen and gekiga has been dead for effectively like three decades.

File: gaiman3.jpg (104KB, 600x919px) Image search: [Google]

104KB, 600x919px

>>141154991
>That time when Garth Ennis shit all over Gaiman.

>>141154960
>current series
You mean radio host? I love his series like Ohikkoshi because he can actually fucking write a plot.

>>141155061
Garth Ennis is an edgelord anyways.

>>141155085
Funny, then, how well he writes Superman.