Muv-Luv / Total Eclipse / Schwarzesmarken

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Who /NVA/ here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWC_fcr6V-0

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>>140957978
In honour of those most stubborn and unbendable haters. Posting the Best Girls!

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>>140957978
Why do Katiafags seem to hate Beatrix and Lise so much?

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>>140958116
Posting
>>140958119
becuase muh ideals

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>>140957978
Reminder to not make a new thread unless we are on page 10

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>>140957987
HE GO BOYS! FIRST CHOICE. PLACE YOUR BETS!

>>140958194
Imperial feast time

>>140958119

Because Katia's objective of a morally acceptable victory and Beatrix and Lise's justification for their actions are mutually exclusive.

>>140958194
Don't trouble the poor chefs

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PACT PRIDE WORLDWIDE

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>>140957978

..Even death itself may fall to our superior firepower.

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>>140958194
>>140958211


>>140958288
Too late

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>>140957978
A-6's are fucking baller looking.

Anyway, some anon was asking about the Muv-Luv quest some guy ran on /tg/ on friday, here's the archive. http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/46990600/

>>140958254
This isn't a negotiation young lady now bend over.

>>140958323
It's time

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>>140958323
I can't wait for you to LP alternative.

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>>140958323
>>140958355
>dubs
>Captchas: select limousines
yep, no turning now.

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http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpp208_pink-floyd-the-final-cut-film-complete-1983_music

Official Schwarzesmarken soundtrack by Roger Waters of Pink Floyd is THE soundtrack, comrades.
He`s now working on his next album about interdimensional matress travel - when he`s not busy calling out the jew.

Also, commissar Gretel and Martin were lucky to attend to the last concert of the Puhdys https://youtu.be/7FCWNS02jP4

But you can't forget the classics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxITXgetyQw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt6ZtGpSH4g

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Happy International Workers Day comrades!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7kgbT4Wfug

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>>140958445
>>140958422
At the speed that I am going now, it will take me a year to get to that point.

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>>140958559

>>140958559
You don't have to screencap EVERY line. Just do the fun ones.

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>>140958617

>>140958231
Maybe I'm a cynic, but Beatrix's idea that sometimes you have to compromise between what is morally right and what is necessary resonates with me much more than Katia's "Good things are good" philosophy, especially in a setting of desperate and bleak as Muv-Luv.

>>140958684
Same here

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>>140958514

COMMUNIST INVADER DETECTED ON AMERICAN SOIL. LETHAL FORCE ENGAGED.

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>>140958670
>>140958666
I try to skip stuff as much as I can but most the time the conversation is being carried over, no point in just showing the middle or the end without the start.

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>>140958788

>>140958684
Third

>>140958684
German unification is a very worthy goal. Anime doesn`t handle that part well at all.

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>>140958833

>>140958858
more like subjugation to West Germany

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>>140958880

>>140958684
>>140958708
>>140958836

The problem is that her actions don't match her words. Beatrix was acting as if she, having been the only personal to realize that amoral actions can be expedient in human history, was therefore above all ethical considerations.

And she loses the practicality argument when you realize that the DDR had a problem that was purely material rather than... whatever her Super Surveillance Nation would have addressed.

>>140958921
t. Ossie

You are right though.

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>>140958927

>>140958921
>Subjugation to West Germany
>Worse than being a Soviet puppet

Yeah, no.

>>140958965
>barbaric bitter cockroach

>>140958921
I wouldn`t miss Stasi much if I was an ossie.
Problem is, wessies treated them like shit as a whole.

>>140958969
>being fucked by Gustav or being fucked by Jimmy

I pick death

>>140958921

You say that like it's a bad thing.

>>140958969
>advocating for burgerdick

Forever faggot much, wessie?

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>>140958952
>purely material
This is what happens when you produce costly vehicles as the main fighting vehicle against all threats which shows no significant advantage over older models against the BETA.

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>>140958965

>>140958997

>Treated like shit
>2.2 trillion in support and reconstruction

Money talks.

>>140958952
Being delusional isn't limited to the fans, at some point you keep going because admitting that you are wrong is too much to handle.

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>>140959072

>>140959104
Prostitute logic, everybody.

>>140958962
>>140958969
>>140958997
Unlike under Merklel the immigrants on the DDR actually worked and didn't forced their culture on us
The demolition of the Palast der Republik was an act of revanchsim and yes I'm still mad about it

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>>140959123

so is Yuimoto gonna lie stabbed forever

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>>140959040
>>140959020

Better Dead than Red.

>>140958997

They took a significant economic burden in bringing their infrastructure up to par with West Germany. Meanwhile the Russians basically let every one of their buffer states be utter shit and gave them garbage equipment, exception being some of the East Germans due to fears of potential rebellion against their iron tight control.

>>140959114

Well, once you've compromised everything and become a monster, if you admit that you were wrong...

>>140959157
>their culture
Just a regional subset, how do you even force that? Make everybody wear a tracksuit and drive a trabant?

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>>140959168

>>140959184
Does a dick count?

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>>140959211

>>140959187
>>140959104

>They took a significant economic burden in bringing their infrastructure up to par with West Germany.

How does everyone forget this?

>>140959187
You`ll be dead with a mouthful of dick, okay.

>buffer states
You`ve said it yourself.

>>140959203
I'm talking about the Vietnamese and African immigrants on the DDR
And well almost everybody had a Trabant, there was not much choice in that

>>140959203
>how do you even force that?

A lot of waiting in really long lines. You make the lines for basic necessitates, so everyone has to stand in them, and suddenly you have everyone participating in your culture.

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>>140958952
I don't necessarily think her plans or goals are necessarily good, but her ideals are. I think she's a more compelling and interesting character than Katia. Katia starts the story pure, and ends the story pure. She'll never be as conflicted or have to wrestle with her self like Beatrix, Lise, Iris, or Gretel do.

>>140959294
There is one group that was able to force their cultural conceptions on host population in a significant way. You know which one, for we all suffer from it.

>>140959271
They didn't feel like they were being helped since they felt things were fine before. Also Berlin ate up most of the Money, the countryside still looks and feels like commieland if it was overlooked.

>>140959346
>but her ideals are

But what ARE they?

>>140959341
>lines are culture

And then they go home and no longer participate. Culture must be pervasive.

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Mana is my waifu.

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>>140959254
Can't believe they left him unconsciousness on the floor. Damn Sumika and Class Rep.

Welp that is it for today.

To be continued.

>>140959371
happy merchants
and sandinngers in cucked germany, remember how the government covered up the new year rapes?

>>140959371
Mexicans?

>>140959413
Holding the line at all cost, most likely. But then comes the question if she really believes in that or not.

>>140959423
Mana-sama can be my mistress

>>140959450
Of course. But negro is nothing without his enabler.

>>140959461
Mexicans can't force shit unless it's bastardized version of their food.
Anon is obviously talking about Jews.

>>140959461
Eskimo!

>>140959461
Don't be dumb, the western hemisphere doesn't have any culture to force.

>>140959413
Prioritizing humanity's survival over that of her own state; carrying out her lover's final testament.

This is your daily reminder that the Deutschmark was considered to be a more valuable currency than the Ostmark... In East Germany.

>>140959578
Heeey, what about rape culture?

>>140959602
Is Japan west hemisphere?

>>140959602
anita pls go

>>140959543

I think he's talking about sandniggers.

>>140959637
You fucking white male!

>>140959292
>Buffer states

The funniest thing is they pretty much were less buffer states and more warm bodies to throw into the NATO meatgrinder before the Soviet A class divisions would sweep in, and occupation troops to prevent their own populations from throwing off the Iron Collar of the Soviets. Mind you, the second that it was just a conventional war, the Soviets would lose. They couldn't reach the Rhine fast enough to prevent the Americans and Canadians from pouring into preprepared deployment sites in France, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands. Not to mention they'd have to take Denmark, which was easier said than done when you look at the Danish plan which was basically 'Mine the shit out of the Kattegat' and 'Blow up every fucking bridge linking the Jutland to the islands.' Combine this with a heavy dependence on the Carpathian Railways and the inevitable NATO BTFO'ing of their air force post 85, the Pact was not going to win. At best they could force a draw after a German unification and Czechoslovakian liberation by threatening to launch nukes if the Oder-Neisse line was crossed.

And that's assuming that if they got BTFO'd in their first offensive that the Polish wouldn't take their chances and turn on the Soviets.

>>140957978
Uh, that means Muvluv have amphibious mechs?
...are they strong?

>>140959593
That's what happens when you have fixed exchange rates.

>>140959624

Geographically, no. Culturally, yes.

>>140959675
yes, A-6 STRONK

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>>140959675
Extremely. 4 36mm cannons, loads of armor, 2 120mm long guns. Enough DAKKA to fuck up the day of pretty much every BETA under the sun. Plus the US introduced a FLYING nuclear powered amphibious stealth version in 1998. We don't get pics of them though, primarily because they're still working on getting the rail guns working.

>>140959675
>>140959734
>>140959767

Man has long feared that which dwells in the depths beyond the light of the sun.

Intruder-chan demonstrates why we do.

>>140959578
Antartica has some sick culture though

>>140957978
Man I love A-6. Model kit never.

>>140959674
>couldn't reach the Rhine
Familiar mantra.

>inevitable NATO BTFO'ing of their air force post 85
And another.

>Polish wouldn't take their chances and turn on the Soviets
Okay, I`ll have some of that too.

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The DDR collapsed on March 28th, 1983, about a month before International Worker’s Day.
While the DDR would never see its 34th Worker’s Day arrive, the propaganda organs made sure to prepare for one its nations most important holidays.
Here we have an example of poster, made by the DEWAG Berlin-intern VAA, which was to be hung on the streets of East Berlin to remind all that the 1st of May was approaching.
Katia was a role model to all workers of East Germany and made for a popular mascot to be displayed on various work related printed material.
This example was preserved by the Katja Historisches Museum (KHM, Katia Historical Museum) after it was donated by a citizen who claimed to have looted it from the former offices of the DEWAG Berlin on the night of the 28th after rebel forces had already passed through the area.

While the DDR may have collapsed this by no means stopped the celebration of the International Worker’s day. It is celebrated in over 50 countries in the world today.

Happy International Worker’s Day!

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>>140958116

>>140959821
Welcome back Posteranon! Or did you never leave?

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>>140959767
>loads of armor

They can survive a hit from a TSF 120mm.

> 2x120mm long guns

Meaning they don't need to fire rocket shells to get standard velocity, and can carry significant amounts of ammo.

>We don't get pics of them though, primarily because they're still working on getting the rail guns working.

The 76mm autocannons they mounted in place of the railguns work just fine, though.

>>140959734
>>140959767
>>140959783
Tell me they can manage close combat too and I'm going to enlist tomorrow

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>>140959346
I doubt very seriously if Beatrix actually believed the bullshit she was sprouting. It's more likely she was using it to mask her true purpose, that of the annihilation of 20 million people for her own amusement.

>>140959821
>the woman who gave away the DDR

yeah no
This is like the demolition of the Palast der Republik

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>>140959808

Are you sure about that?

>>140959985
DDR pretty much decided to turn off on its own.

>>140959948
PUNCH BETA ON THE FACE

And they rekt some japanese TSF too

>>140959948
It does, it manages to take down 20 year younger designs in close combat. Though its mostly mutual kills by that point.

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>>140959783
Plus they can be outfitted with ASROC's and torpedoes to blow up BETA formations underwater.

And they're pretty much exclusively a Marine thing too, which is a neat touch. Makes sense that the US beach stormers would want something to storm beaches with.

>>140959811
Like, really, the whole 6 Days to the Rhine plan depended on a surprise attack and a LOT of things working in Soviet favor. It was a theoretical exercise at best, but it did provide a good framework for the actual soviet plans.

Also, are you seriously thinking that they could have won the air war against the western powers? Why do you think the soviets invested so much in SAM and AAAsystems?

>>140959932
The 76mm can also be swapped out for 12 VLS cells. So we're talking Tomahawk/Harpoon/SM capable, flying, submersible, insanely tough stealth TSA's.

>>140959948
To a degree, due to most of their firepower being arm mounted they generally don't want to get into close combat, but their 'hands' are pretty much designed to RIP AND TEAR instead of hold things.

>>140960026
She, Heim and the moderate rebels where at the negotiation table

>>140960027
>>140960030
I'm fucking sold sarge

>>140959157

Don't you want your history to be replaced with a museum of African "Art?"

....just like your population and culture?

>>140959948

Well, they aren't supposed to get in it.

That said, they retain the bladed hands and brute strength of the A-6, and the armor geives you a margin of error against Tanks and Grapplers.

If you FOUND a CQC weapon, you might be able to make it work.

With the Avenger, the fact that you have several years worth of nuclear fuel on hand means you can boost at max thrust as much as you want (without overheating), which is a serious advantage. In a story I'm working on presently, the MC uses the superior strength of the TSA frame to use a glaive on his Avenger.

>>140960147
Fighter pilots make movies, bomber pilots make history
>>140960191
As long as it was from art for the German colonies in africa

>>140960081
>western airpower
They only had to kill US and maybe British. Everything else was and is laughable, especially with the kind of SAM soviets had.

>>140960269
>German colonies

I doubt pipedreams leave much in terms of material art. Maybe if you count hangover in, though.

>>140960081
>The 76mm can also be swapped out for 12 VLS cells. So we're talking Tomahawk/Harpoon/SM capable, flying, submersible, insanely tough stealth TSA's.

Don't forget several years of fuel per tank!

>>140960338
>Tomahawk/Harpoon

What the fuck am I reading.

>>140960276

Much easier said than done.

>>140960320
We can have things like the tapestry representing the surrendering of VonLettow

>>140960391
I`d just declare boers honorable aryans and appropriate like there is no tomorrow.

>>140960377

I think it would be a bit smaller than that, something like the Phoenix missile the F-14 TSF used.

>>140960446
Fine by me

>>140960276
>everything else was laughable

Norwegians and Danes were both flying US made F-16's by this point, same with most of the NATO airforces, the Germans had heavily modified F-4's that were more than capable of BTFO'ing anything the Ossies could throw in their general direction. Then there were the French who weren't slouches themselves. And killing the US and British air forces was going to be tricky. They'd been in actual fighter combat within a decent amount of institutional memory.

>>140960377
VLS tubes can carry multiple types of missile. So them being able to carry a few Harpoons or Tomahawks into the fight makes sense. I'm guessing the Avenger is probably one of the biggest TSA's out there just due to the nuclear reactor, probably about 20m~ or so tall at least.

>>140960468
Don`t remind me. Phoenixes in SM are fucking travesty. Since when AA missile carries submunitions?!

Bears firing Moskitoes on BETA had at least something to do with reality, if you squint really hard and pretend.

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>>140960081
>>140960030
>>140960147

>If the Army and the Navy
>Ever look on Heaven's scenes,
>They will find the streets are guarded
>By United States Marines.

But in all honesty, it's exactly the sort of thing the Marines would commission. Tough, with lots of guns, and built like a brick with about the same logistics and support requirements (because Guadalcanal).

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Celebrating international workers day with Gretel!

>>140960533
>Norwegians and Danes
>F-16's
Even if we take those sodomites seriously in the first place, it`s earlier blocks against 27/29/31 with a helping of 25s. Literally le liberator rape.

>germs
>f-4s
>against 29s
Le liberator is breathing heavily in anticipation.

And with French you make a backroom deal.

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>>140957978
I wish I have waifu as strong as A-6

>>140960754
I wonder if she drinks.

>>140960654
Then why the fuck did they exchange F-14s for a faggot of a plane?

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>>140960654
The funniest fact is that the Marines are actually pretty much the Navy's heavy striking arm in regards to TSF's in Muv-Luv. A-6's, A-12's and F-18 Superhornets to supplement the Navy

>>140960775
>Ossies
>Mig 29's

Kek, they had pretty much mostly Fishbeds, something the F-4 had no problem making its bitch.

>>140960533
>VLS tubes can carry multiple types of missile. So them being able to carry a few Harpoons or Tomahawks into the fight makes sense. I'm guessing the Avenger is probably one of the biggest TSA's out there just due to the nuclear reactor, probably about 20m~ or so tall at least.

For reference, the Tomahawk with the booster for ground launch is a bit more than six meters long. Assuming the Avenger is in the same ~20m height range as most TSFs, that would be a bit like a person carrying a missile just under two feet long on a backpack rack.

>>140960829
Jap status: BTFO

>>140960861
I was thinking in terms of weight. Tomahawk is more than twice as heavy as Harpoon. Why do you even need an anti-shipping missile on a TSF?

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>>140960842
I don't see why not
>>140960854
sup

>>140960842
>Then why the fuck did they exchange F-14s for a faggot of a plane?

USMC never used the Tomcat IRL, though they may have in ML.

As for why... something something tactical flexibility something something CAGs need a nerf.

>>140960868
You know those A-6s are piloted by japs as well? The Muhreens aren't as dumb as to start shit with other humans when the BETAs are around.

>>140960842
>F-14
>Marines

That was the Navy, and the F-14 was a maintenance hog pretty much unmatched by any other plane in the US fleet. Sure, it COULD rape those bombers from insanely long range, but the problem was getting them up and out.

>>140960940
To kill Fort-Class. Think about it.

>>140960958
Again, mostly fishbeds. They didn't get a lot of 29's.

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Inia, Cryska and Yui are my waifus.

>>140960854

Well, we know the USN operates its own carrier-launched TSF squadrons, like the Jolly Rodgers that appear in both SM and Total Eclipse, so it seems a bit more complicated. If I recall correctly, the A-6 is usually launched from a sub when it needs a mothership.

>>140961016
They only get 24 of them because they where introduced in 1988 and well reunification happened 3 year after

>>140961001

They were guided by the shades of Marines past, who had experience with that sort of thing.

>>140960940

Tomahawk is the ground-attack one. Harpoon is anti-ship.

But they're working on an anti-ship Tomahawk mod.

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>>140960868
It was beautiful to be honest

a fucking old model fucking up an entire flights of Shiranui into pieces that even with that suicide run the A-6 didn't back down and still manage to achieve double K.O

and not to mention that it seems that the pilots survive and even piloted an A-6 again to lead the way towards the hive assault and the one keeping the BETAs from going to the ocean

glorious model waifu

>>140960958
>flying sex
interestingly, Fulcrum was aerodynamically stable, while Flanker was not. Then MiG made it unstable, but couldn`t sell. ;_;
I hope they get to do this new frontline plane thing in Fulcrum tradition, Sukhoi can`t have all the fun.

>>140961016
Nothing newer blocks wouldn`t fix. I doubt it could actually rape, but at least with 14 you had an engangement range far greater than with 18.

And there must be something lighter effective on Fort-class.

>>140961083
I'd get Cryska and Inia pregnant

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>>140961083
Since you got three of them you won't mind if I CHOMP a pair, won't you?

>>140961016
>That was the Navy, and the F-14 was a maintenance hog pretty much unmatched by any other plane in the US fleet. Sure, it COULD rape those bombers from insanely long range, but the problem was getting them up and out.

They they should have come up with a replacement for the Phoenix so the Hornet could still have a shot at killing the Backfires before they hit launch position. That, I think, was the bigger mistake.

>>140958119
Because Katia/Iris and Lise/Beatrix are like ying and yang. The ideals they follow are completely opposite of each other.

>>140961016

So the F-14 was like a type-00?

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>>140961218
Get out.

>>140961166
>Harpoon is anti-ship
So I asked why would TSF attack a ship.

>anti-ship Tomahawk mod
What, outside of unarmed merchantmen, tankers and cruise liners, could you possibly kill with it? Literally CIWS fodder.

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>>140961275
Marimo-chan you know I love you, but you gotta spread the CHOMP.

>>140961256
To be honest to her, Lise`s only idea was to fuck off.

>>140961218
>tfw Yuuko was the one who deserved to get CHOMPED, not poor Marimo.

>>140961199
>Lighter

Probably, but the thing is the range on a harpoon is fucking stellar compared to that 120mm and more accurate. You could hit over the horizon targets with it.

>>140961240
The Pheonix had a lot of issues too. Honestly, they should have fixed the missile but getting more planes in the air was the priority, trusting the CIWS and Burke/Tico's to cover any launches that did get off.

>>140961274
Hell no. The F-14 actually exists, and got used to great effect. Iranians BTFO'd the Iraqi's with them.

>>140957978

BDs never.

>>140961178

Yes. Pilot survivability is going to go way up when you don't discard the concept of armor in exchange for cool moves.

>>140961274

No, it actually did something comparatively unique in addition to doing it very well.

Also, the U.S. can afford extravagance. ML Japan certainly can't.

>>140961256
Katia's ideas are just pure nonsense though

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>>140961275
why does the world like to play with marimo so much

>>140960703

Lise respected that Iris was Theo's type, but she couldn't accept her as a love rival, or accept her at all given the parallels between their pasts. Even if Iris explained why she did it to Jurgen, the thought of putting a gun to his head and executing her own brother is unimaginable for Lise. Shame SM's two most prominent blondes have to be at odds on a such a fundamental level.

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>>140961345

>>140961359
Yes, and Katia was the one who was dragging him into everything. It was also Katia who Theo resolved to protect with his life, while he didn't really give that much of a crap about Lise. Like I said, ying and yang.

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>>140961083

Welcome back

>>140961421
Extra Marimo tasted dick, that's all.

>>140961425
You also have to consider that Beatrix would've turned Lise against Iris long before the two met.

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>None of these niggers know about AGM-65 but instead talk about Tomahawk and Harpoon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf_uC-s9bdw
The most important weapon for fighting Fort-class, heavy laser-class and Destroyer-class

You all go to the gulag.

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>>140961457
You know Tama, the Boss told me you were pretty tasty as well. Can I have a bite?

>>140961551
That too. Its funny but if their positions were reversed Theo and Lise probably would have gone with the other's choice. Bea and Iris are just too charismatic for anyone else's good.

>>140961560
>all-american maverick clapsterbation

If we choose to go down that road, I want my Vikhr-M. So for your one missile I`ll have five.

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>>140961560
Mavrick is good but I like my AShM's pls no bully.

>>140961483
Theo does have a tunnel vision kind of personality.

>>140961302
>What, outside of unarmed merchantmen, tankers and cruise liners, could you possibly kill with it? Literally CIWS fodder.

Anything that doesn't have a CIWS, like ASM torpedo boats.

Also, don't dismiss the value of killing unarmed merchantmen. At the end of the day, that's half of why you have a navy.

>The Pheonix had a lot of issues too.

Of course it did. Compare it to the range of every other air-to-air missile in service at the time; when you push the envelope like that, you're going to have some difficulty. But with the advances in electronics and materials science occurring at the time it was decommissioned, all of those were pretty solvable.

>>140961658
I have a 57 kilo shaped charge.

You have 8-12 kilo shaped charge.

Why not the S-25 Rocket? Nothing can survive 170 kilo of TNT.

>>140961672
No

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>>140961483
This fucking guy.

>>140961826
So I can save my tnt instead of wasting whole 57 kilos of it on some fucking grappler-kun sodomite bater.

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>>140961698
More like willful ignorance. Guy doesn't ask questions when he should, but what do you expect from someone who's lived his life being hunted by stasi?

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>>140961302
>What, outside of unarmed merchantmen, tankers and cruise liners, could you possibly kill with it? Literally CIWS fodder.

Imagine an Ohio class filled to the brim with them, and launching at that that carrier the chicoms bought off the Ukranians and are claiming they pretty much built themselves. At 1600 nm away. It makes my boner rise, and ejaculate red white and blue as a shed a single tear as an eagle flies past the statue of liberty as I furiously masturbate to her and Saint Reagan.

>>140961904

Sounds about right.

>>140961904
Now imagine it answering with sum Granit, with all hands masturbating to Glorious Mao.

It`s russian-planned and hohol-built, this ship can have all kinds of insane surprises.

>>140961882
Why would you waste a maverick at a grappler? You can shoot at it with a 12.7mm gun and kill it.

I can now see a 20mm vulcan mounted in the head mowing filthy BETA down after running out of 36mm.

Instead of being forced to use a knife like some filthy caveman from the east.

>>140961885
Futhermore he lives in a totalitarian shithole where asking questions can get you to the firing squad.
Muh communism.

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>>140962048
We have a lot of shilka in our caves tovarisch, we rove beta rong time!

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>>140962078
>communism
Not even once.

>>140962078
Poor guy almost got killed by commissar for browsing some ASCII porn!

>>140962125
>we have shilkas, brand new and never fired at BETA. Only used to guard places.
>Now only 9.99

>>140961885
Did Theo ever think to look into Jurgen, considering his connection to Iris?

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>>140962037
>Shipwrecks
>Shooting at a fucking Ohio class

Range of a Tomahawk: 1,300 km
Range of a Shipwreck: 625 km

Literally the US could just fill its Boomer's to the brim with cruise missiles, fire them off at the chinese CAG far beyond where they can fire or respond, slip back below the waves, and motor out of there pretty much entirely safe.

>>140962203
I raged about that, yes.

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>>140962125
>>140962203
This sounds shady.

>>140962230
What stops chincoms from killing all of those slow gay ass Tomahawks and just swimming closer? They have oars on that thing too, you know.

>>140962254
Only a stasi prostitue would say no

>>140962306
She knows what's coming. She's tasted it before.

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>>140962254
You have nothing to fear nice girl, we not some cyka blyat here.

>>140962234
I laughed when I learnt that a BTR can kill a grappler.

14.5mm got more penetration then 23mm.

>>140962363
And you can transport a lot of potatoes in it.
Literally a dreamwagon!

>>140962254
Only a spy would know.

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>>140962306

No.

>>140962474
Classy whore

>>140962037
>It`s russian-planned and hohol-built, this ship can have all kinds of insane surprises.

Usually for the user.

>>140962474
>drinking tea and eating himbeertorte with Iris!
>holding Iris` hand!
>licking Iris` Irises!
Hnnnng.

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>>140962230
Oh, let's not forget that the Shipwreck is so fuckhuge that pretty much nothing the Chinese have can launch it. Also range on the TLAM Block IV's is actually 1700 km.

>>140962290
Not enough missiles to defend against them.

Each Ohio class SSGN carries 154 Tomahawks, TLAM Block IV. We have 4 SSGN's. So, that's 616 Tomahawks headed right for your carrier battlegroup outside of your effective response range, and out of your radar range for a good long time.

Good fucking luck Chicoms.

>>140962474
Een Iris is so much better thatn the shit we have now.

>>140962535
You know you should have went with Mikoyan, bro. At least there would be warranty on that thing!

>>140962552
Back off, Iris is mine

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>>140962474
Well I dont really know who you are, I dont sell to no screen time.

>>140962474
>spoiled little girl playing war gamea

Almost as bad as Katia

>>140962587
>missiles
>slow gay ass Tomahawk
Chincom CIWS rove you rong time, capitarist.
And Moskit can fit on a fucking glorified patrol boat.

>P-1200 Bolid

Whuddafug.

>>140955986
Nah, nobody goes there; it's too crowded!

>>140962733
>Moskit
>Same as Shipwreck

Top kek

But yeah, Chicom CIWS would shoot down some of them. There's still 600+ fucking missiles coming in at you at 500+ mph. This is actually a good amount more missiles than the Chicoms have defensive ones, and the CIWS can only shoot at one target at a time. Chinese don't have AEGIS either, so lol what datalink?

>>140962663
I dare say she knows how to play those war games. At the very least she doesn`t smile when her team members die and she can into relieving stress with a joke.

>>140962290

Well, there's quite a lot of them, for one thing; published 154 if it doesn't coordinate it's strike with any other assets.

>>140962587

Well, that's assuming you consider the Carrier Priority Numero Uno. Personally, I subscribe to the school of thought that says that the Liaoning is a Navy Cross Waiting To Happen, and that the real danger is the smaller missile ships and escorts.

So you purge a couple dozen of those with the SSGNs right off the bat, then make sure you have assets to reload them in-theater so you can get another shot off with them later.

>>140962733
>Chincom CIWS rove you rong time, capitarist.

>600 missiles

I think you're badly overestimating the capability and ammo capacity of Chinese CIWS. They are also less invested in platform survivability than we are.

>>140962733
>And Moskit can fit on a fucking glorified patrol boat.

True, but that's a lot less dangerous than a Shipwreck on a Tu-22. There is a reason the navy put a lot of money into the AGS on the new Zumwalt, which I may have to soon eat crow about.

>>140962860
>aegis is the only datalink in existence ever
Please.

>more missiles than the Chicoms have
A very dangerous assumption.

>>140959104
Bolshevik walks.

>>140959168
It's more a custom at the courthouse.

>>140962907
I doubt previous experience with chincom platform survivability even applies. They are becoming a very different thing down there.

>Zumwalt
Ugh. It was better when they just masturbated to carriers.

>>140962971
>Please.

The Chinese have a cheap Chinese knockoff (literally, they call it 'magic shield' and then act like they came up with it on their own) of the Aegis, but it's quality is questionable overall.

>>140963126

It's more a question of priorities.

>>140962971
Uh, no, it's not. But if you think the Chicoms sprang for a data link on every new ship I'll eat my hat, I doubt they did without proof.

Then there's the fact that this is pretty much entirely true, it's more missiles than the chicoms have defenses for. Most of those small boats you're saying can carry moskets and present a bigger danger don't have them, their DDG's carry more AShM's than SAM's, and chinese quality control

>>140962907
Well, that's assuming you consider the Carrier Priority Numero Uno. Personally, I subscribe to the school of thought that says that the Liaoning is a Navy Cross Waiting To Happen, and that the real danger is the smaller missile ships and escorts.

If there's anything that we learned from the Pacific and the Falklands conflict, it's that the side with a carrier in play during the battle that usually wins

>>140963165
>Magic shield
Top kek. Five bucks it's an abandoned soviet project they bought off the russians in the 90's and are claiming is new and high tech.

>>140960654
Jarhead pls, the Marines are only good for raping underage Okinawan girls and creating motarded fucks whose only life accomplishment was graduating bootcamp.

>>140963126
>Zumwalt

It's a good idea, the problem is that they gold-plated the shit out of it.

At least there's a glimmer of hope that someone in the design process understands what a cruiser is supposed to do. The AGS is good, but it needs to be bigger and have more of them.

>>140962663
How times must it be repeated, Katia was right about everything.

>>140963165
>>140963219
>assumptions about glorious chincoms

Everyone can play that game.
Aegis doesn`t work for shit outside of pr demos, burger semen are only good at buttfucking each other, and Tomahawks will all just fall into the water.

>>140963219
>Falklands

Don't forget that the Argentinians only had five Exocets.

>>140963361
Not even mentioning shit burger bombs that don`t even explode.

And still, what a glorious rape it was.
REMOVE LIMEY

>>140963344
Shouldn't you be on /k/, fiddycent poster?

>>140963421
Grorious Mao guides my cock to ravage your capitarist butthore.

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>>140963421
>>140963529
Hey guys dont get all that hot and pansy right now.

This is all a act right?

You are not being dead on serious right now?

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>>140963361
>>140963407
Absolute madmans

>>140959157
>The demolition of the Palast der Republik was an act of revanchsim and yes I'm still mad about it

The Berliner Stadtschloss has far more going for it aesthetically anyway on top of not being an altar to Soviet imperialism. That being said, the Palast der Marionettenstaat wasn't at all bad-looking on the inside.

Now, when are you guys gonna dismantle the Soviet war criminal memorials and send them back to Russia?

>>140963592
I was onry defending myserf!

>>140963643
>war criminal memorials

Ivan! Those germ graves need some restyling, it seems.

>>140963274
Are Katiafags usually as idiotic as their waifu?

>>140963407
>Not even mentioning shit burger bombs that don`t even explode.

That was by design. The information for re-fusing them was intentionally withheld.

>>140963707
Most of the time

>>140963728
And that`s why you don`t buy burger.

>>140963820
More like if you're a South American country buying stuff to potentially use against carriers, don't buy American.

>>140959797
Japanese cold?

>>140963864
>if
So you just don`t buy.

>>140963728
>>140963820
No, it was because bombs from the air force had the fuse in the front of the bomb and since they where dropped so low sometimes they didn't have time to set it
That didn't happen with the Navy bombs

>>140963968
Bipolar disorder bombs.

>>140964065
More like old as fuck bombs

>>140960276
Most of what the US fielded was pretty manageable even for previous generation monkey model dogfighters since everything modern in the US arsenal was suited to a retarded doctrine that flat-out dismissed air superiority fighters.

>>140963407
>And still, what a glorious rape it was.
>REMOVE LIMEY

You know they still lost, right? It was an embarrassment for the British because they Argentinians were able to put up a fight.

>>140964366
That`s why limey removal must continue further.
Or maybe we just wait and see if they finally remove themselves.

>>140963707
Is this whole Katia is perfect in every way and can do know wrong while Beatrix is the antichrist shit a meme or something? I certainly don't remember it from a month ago.

>>140960533
>the Germans had heavily modified F-4's

I still can't believe they took those! Why didn't they go for the F-5?!

>>140960533
>They'd been in actual fighter combat within a decent amount of institutional memory

That's right, because the Soviets had no involvement whatsoever in the Korean War. (wink-wink)

>>140964497
>took
It was more of a question of what US will be willing to give.

>>140964468
It`s a reaction to insane lise/beatofag shilling that flooded the threads for some time.

>>140964497
>Korea

Vietnam happened too. And Middle East.

>>140960854
>Fishbeds, something the F-4 had no problem making its bitch

Assuming the missiles didn't fail to track properly (as they were prone to do with great frequency).

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>>140964468
But she is perfect and did no wrong

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>>140964570
>It`s a reaction to insane lise/beatofag shilling that flooded the threads for some time.

To be fair, a lot of that is Age's fault.

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>>140964849
What did Age do?

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>>140964849
Well, âge knows where the money is at.

>>140965238
They always make Beatrix and Iris the centerpiece of their Comiket attractions.

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>>140965315
Here's another image showing off their booth from last year. Once again, it's Iris and Beatrix as the stars.

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>>140965315
>>140965492

Just how self aware are they about Beatrix's characterization across different sources? This sort of applies to Lise too, do they want tragic heroines or villains because if they were consistent it could save a lot of needless debate.

>>140965238
Nothing
It's just that their most current series is BiS along with SM

>>140964497
>Korea

Everyone was using missiles by the 80's grandpa, I'm sorry.

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>>140960842
>I wonder if she drinks.

Köstritzer, mufka!

So, uh, is the healing over?

>>140965238
>What did Age do?
make Rage

>>140965725
>you will never drink a stout with Gretel

suffering

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>>140965808

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>>140965523
The general consensus seems to be that they're tragic and even selfless.

Hiroki himself grouped Beatrix in with Iris and Katia as one of the main heroines of Schwarzesmarken.

https://twitter.com/uchidahiroki/status/715940630501859329

>>140965523
>Lise
You weren't here for all the rage the Japs were having over her, were you.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm28354340

>>140965808
He said he'd do more. So mabye.

>>140965993
I was, I just don't understand why Age would take the characters in the direction that they did in the show or allowed it to happen if thats not what the characters are "supposed" to be.
Why muddy the waters of intention.

>>140965959
Did he ever give his thoughts on how the show was handled?

>>140961016
>the F-14 was a maintenance hog pretty much unmatched by any other plane in the US fleet

Yet the Panavia Tornado doesn't have that problem. Never trust a defense industry with a history of profiteering.

>Sure, it COULD rape those bombers from insanely long range, but the problem was getting them up and out.

At least it CAN get up and out, whereas the plane that's *supposed* to be replacing it can barely manage to get up even when it's "functioning" properly.

>>140964849
>>140965315
>>140965492
I think it's more that the two of them contrast each other and look really good next to one another then anything else.

>>140966153
The Hornet actually has a pretty good uptime, especially the Superbugs.

>>140966136
>I just don't understand why Age would take the characters in the direction that they did in the show or allowed it to happen if thats not what the characters are "supposed" to be.

Does the tern "Cash-in" mean anything to you?

They did it for the money (and to act as a hook for people to buy the LN and the VN) not because they wanted their fans to experience the original story as an animated product.

>>140961001
You grossly underestimate the capacity of modern Maroons for heinous stupidity.

>>140966136
>Did he ever give his thoughts on how the show was handled?

Above admitting that Beatrix was like a daughter to him when questioned, not really. Unlike over here, Japs usually tow the company line even if they don't agree with it. As much as SM is Hiroki's baby, it's still ultimately belongs to Age and can be handed off to someone else if he doesn't tow the company line. He might have a more honest opinion if he wasn't on their payroll. Japs are used to shit LN adaptions though, and usually treat them as their own thing or as a highlights reel.

>>140961391
>The Pheonix had a lot of issues too

Just another AIM-4 Falcon debacle.

>>140961407
>Pilot survivability is going to go way up when you don't discard the concept of armor in exchange for cool moves.

laughing F2A-3 pilots.jpg

>>140961560
>AGM-65
>not Kh-25

Wrong Bloc, tovarishch.

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>>140961672
>tumblehome hull

>>140962363
>14.5mm got more penetration then 23mm.

Overpenetration diminishes the damage inflicted, bruh. Just sayin'.

>>140962609
Yeah, India's still waiting for them to cover the $600,000,000 worth of expenses incurred from those faulty intake doors on their MiG-29s.

>>140965959
>selfless

That part is bullshit. Beatrix wasn't making nearly as much of a sacrifice as all the people she sacrifice for her goals, and Lise was acting largely out of self-interest.

>>140963243
Can we please revive the practice of summary executions for such crimes?

>>140967173
>Implying they were faulty and it wasn't just the curries fucking up maintinance

Please. This is the nation that made the fucking Tejas and INIAS. And is currently bungling buying the Rafale so hard it's mind boggling.

>>140965557
>BiS

BiS was a mistake.

>>140966828
>Overpenetration diminishes the damage inflicted, bruh. Just sayin'.
Not against a grappler.

>>140964701

Yes. In 1960.

>>140963250
>the problem is that they gold-plated the shit out of it

We really need to revive the Truman Committee.

>>140964701
>Comparing the Sidewinder in fucking 1965 to the one in 1985

wew lad

>>140967462
>We really need to revive the Truman Committee.

No, that would be too much of a common-sense solution.

Another solution that's too common-sense to work would be paying flat overheads rather than a fraction of the cost for system deliveries, so contractors would no longer be incentivized to raise the price of each unit. You'd need some kind of QA investigation system to ensure that quality doesn't become a problem, but that seems easier to do than judging system costs.

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>>140967281
I think even Axmann is less evil than her considering how his motivations were purely about getting power. Beatrix wanted to kill everyone just because. She was also secretly Axmann's boss, and most of the things he did was under her command.

As for Lise, she's one of the most selfish people in the whole story. I don't think she ever loved Theo, she just wished to own him. She doesn't care what Theo thinks or feels at all. She even enjoyed torturing and killing his friends because she saw them as obstacles.

>>140967338
It muddled the message of SM and now we have a bunch of apologist flooding our discussion.

>>140964570
>It was more of a question of what US will be willing to give.

We were perfectly willing to give F-5s.

>>140964612
>Vietnam

Dogfighting? What's dogfighting?

>And Middle East.

Not during the Soviet era.

>>140965587
Don't put all your eggs in a single basket, kid. The bomber mafia tried that and were promptly exposed as complete retards. Not that it stopped them from pushing the same retardation again in later wars...

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>>140967738
>I don't think she ever loved Theo, she just wished to own him

I think she loved him, but what he wanted was much less of a consideration for her compared to what she wanted.

..Though put like that, maybe it wasn't love at all.

Whatever it was, that was what she was acting on and killing for the same of, and I don't think it has the same level of justification capability as 'Saving The World' can.

>>140966203
I don't think he's talking about the F/A-18.

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>>140967738
>>140967873

Lise's live for Theo was twisted and tainted like the rest of her, but it was absolutely sincere. It may have no longer been pure love, because by then nothing about the poor girl was pure. But it was true love nonetheless.

>>140967839
>Don't put all your eggs in a single basket, kid. The bomber mafia tried that and were promptly exposed as complete retards. Not that it stopped them from pushing the same retardation again in later wars...

At the same time, the advantage of standoff missile capability is undeniable and massive.

This is why I think it's a bad idea to try and build one aircraft that's good at everything; if you manage to make it preform well at any of them despite suffering the engineering trade-offs of all of them, it's going to cost out the ass.

>>140967429
>>140967496
Missiles are not suitable for all scenarios and circumstances; it was true back then and it remains true now. For the odd situation out it pays to have a cannon and corresponding gunsight systems as backup.

>>140968206
Which every fighter post vietnam the US has made has.

>>140968188
>At the same time, the advantage of standoff missile capability is undeniable and massive.

I realize that; it doesn't make missiles the golden hammer everyone insists on making them out to be.

>This is why I think it's a bad idea to try and build one aircraft that's good at everything; if you manage to make it preform well at any of them despite suffering the engineering trade-offs of all of them, it's going to cost out the ass.

Preaching to the choir; my point is that designing an aircraft to fit overly narrow parameters is just as debilitating and wasteful as making it a jack of all trades and master of none.

>>140968206
>>140968260

I'm not disagreeing that its something you want, but in this day and age the missiles are good enough in enough of the situations that you'll encounter that optimizing a design to favor missile combat is not an indefensible decision.

Plus, you can always put an air-to-ground missile on the same pylon/bay slot once you've achieved air dominance and conduct ground attacks. A dogfighter is going to need to have an airframe optimized for high thrust-to-weight and maneuverability, and thus less ability in that area.

>>140968260
F-35B says hi.

>>140968567
Gunpods. The F-35A has an integrated gun. The Marine version of the F-35 is what IMO, really inflated the price and development.

>>140968127
I don't think true love involves killing the person you are in love with, or all his friends. For that matter, I don't think anyone really had true love except for maybe some of the side characters. Beatrix and Iris certainly never had it. Katia probably comes closest, but Theo never returned her advances so it's hard to tell.

>>140968699
>Gunpods

Drag.

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>>140968934
Yeah, well, still better than it could be. Marines fucked up the JSF, I'm nearly 100% sure of it.

>>140968448
>designing an aircraft to fit overly narrow parameters is just as debilitating and wasteful as making it a jack of all trades and master of none.

Fair. At least from an engineering standpoint, what you want to do is find groups of tasks that have similar requirements from the equipment that you can't easily change (air frame, stealth, engines) and put those on the same plane, then have like three or four designs.

The problem, of course, is that then you're incurring three times the R&D costs. But if you can get procurement down enough, it might sell.

Something like:

>Glaive
>Interceptor/Missile Bus & Tactical Bomber
>Needs high speed, high cargo capacity, superior sensor systems

>Gladius
>Dogfighter & Wild Weasel
>Needs maneuverability, close-in weapons, ECM, and durability

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>>140968986

Your problem is trying put VTOL ability on a platform that isn't built for it, or trying to build something without VTOL but with the design compromises for it made, and expecting it not to suffer a loss of performance.

That's why it's managing to approach the same marginal unit cost of the F-22 without being (nearly) as OP.

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>>140967873
I'd say Lise did love Theo.

I mean, look at the situation she was thrown into from her perspective:
>You were caught trying to escape the DDR with you parents and beloved onii-chan
>the last you saw of the latter was him struggling against the Stasi trying to get you back
>You're taken and subsequently raped/tortured/etc, and a threatened that unless you comply and spill the beans regarding the attempted defection, onii-chan will see the pictures, As a carrot though, you're told that if you comply then onii-chan will be safe and even spared from summary execution.
>You tell them everything, lose your parents, and from then on are forced to work for the Stasi as a swallow. In the following years you're forced to do things that degrade your body, heart, and soul, including but not limited to: informing on citizens, sexually satisfying older men, executing other people who attempted to escape the DDR with your bare hands (this includes a baby), etc
>You're basically a dog of the state. You probably hate yourself deeply.
>But all the while, onii-chan is still safe (relatively, as much as you can be in this madhouse of a country).Your only remaining family, the one dearest to your heart, is okay.
>Knowing that, that you have a chance to be reunited with him, and maybe, just maybe, will have an opportunity to finally escape this endless nightmare with him, is all that's keeping you together.

The problem I'd say is that she loved him too much. Theo was the only thing she had going for her. Being reunited with him and escaping together wouldn't just help validate the hell of the all those years. It's also the door to a happy ending out of this.

So when that dream was shattered, so was she.

It really is something.

>>140969329
Why didn't she just cross over to his side? Would it not have been better to die with her brother then attempt to kill him for an abusive bitch?

>>140969585
Because Theo kept rejecting her in favor of Iris's ideals? Why would she join a squad lead by the one who she feels is like is stealing her brother away from her?

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>>140969585
Anime version has her lose all hope of beating the Stasi, since from her experience they can't be beat. She doesn't trust the rebellion could do it, and also believes that they don't have Theo's best interest in mind and will get him killed, So Plan A was elope with him out of the country. He wouldn't, so Plan B is to bring him over to Stasi side. He wouldn't, so Plan C is to bring him by force. If that fails, then Plan D is murder/suicide to spare him from inevitable torture and death once the rebellion loses which she thought was inevitable.

>>140969868

Well, it's not like what he wants is of any relevance.

>>140969962
I like the LN version where she's doing it out of genuine loyalty to Beatrix.

>>140969585
Because she's not sweet little Lise anymore, she's two-faced yandere as fuck Lise now.

And all she wants is her Onii-chan, but she wants him on her terms.

I still find it funny, it's like people weren't paying attention when they were watching/reading this shit. Yes, there are plenty of characters who are the way they are cause of situations beyond their control, they're still shitty people behaving like shitty people, what happened to them doesn't magically excuse their behavior.

Just imagine if this could be used in real life as a defense, that poor man who was drunk behind the wheel and ended up killing Stacy, the little blond 16 year old on her first time behind the wheel after getting her license, who was a cheerleader, had a boyfriend, went to church, etc. But he should get off easy cause his alcoholism stems from the trauma of being beaten as a child from his daddy. (not that it stops people from trying it when they're in court already)

>>140970146
>what happened to them doesn't magically excuse their behavior

Thank you.

>>140970146
its not about excuses, it is acknowledging that people are products of their environments instead of just using mob justice rules.

>>140970291
Bullshit.

>>140970146
I had a huge grin on my face watching her death play out. If only Beatrix and Axmann had gotten suitably drawn out, gory deaths too.

>>140970344
so you think if you grew up a black man in the congo that you would be a beacon of justice.

what a fucking idiiot.

>>140970388
I'd still be accountable for my actions.

>>140970388
only if you are on the losing side.

belief in a just world is a trait for religious idiots.

>>140970105
>>140970146
>And all she wants is her Onii-chan, but she wants him on her terms.

What woman would ever agree to let the one she truly loves fall for another woman? Especially when she has suffered so much just to see him again, only to see him straying away from her.

I mean Lise might be selfish in that snese, but how else would there be love dramas

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>>140970146
I'm not gonna make excuses for this, but its entertaining as fuck. Its an anime, why not enjoy the characters for what they are with some levity. We can judge or rationalize all we want but its the same conversation thats been going in circles for months now. Love the good guys, hate the bad guys thats how this is supposed to work right?

Nothing thats ever been said in these threads matters anyway. It is the way it is and its up to the viewer to come to their own conclusions. If it got people interested in the VNs then I guess it did its job, but theres gonna be a discrepancy in the kind of characters the new audience should expect to find.

>>140970808
It's highly selfish though. Katia, for instances, accepts and loves Theo for who he is, and is willing to give him up if it makes him happy. Lise will destroy everything if she can't have him. The only person who comes as close to being as selfish is Beatrix. No surprise that they're the two worst people on the show.

>>140970808
Doesn't help that the other woman in this case seems to care more about her ideals than the guy.