Does it seem like a better show to you the second time around?

3.33?
No, it only gets worse and worse. It's literally the worst thing to happen to the Evangelion world, since it basically caters to asuka and kaworu otaku .

>>140334824
I agree
Even though I only watched 3.33 twice the second time was really painful.

>>140334824
Butthurt Reifags continue to post the same first reply in every 3.33 thread.

>>140336249
No one really thought this was good anon. I get that the criticism hits you, but it's still true.

Instead ask yourself whether or not this is how you'd like Evangelion to be.

Second time felt easier to me. Felt like a calm setup. Still not an amazing film by any standard, IMHO.

>>140337385
I do think its good.

There are plenty of criticisms you can level against it and its definitely flawed, but it still makes me laugh that every time I see somebody launch into a tirade about how its the worst thing ever, it always comes out that they're mostly mad about somebody else's favorite character getting more screentime.

>>140338421
The flaws in 3.33 is directly related to otaku catering. You liking it, well, I've got bad news for you son.

>>140337672
>calm
>the movie is a clusterfuck and anything but calm
0/10

>>140338555
I don't think that's true at all. 3.33 doesn't feel very concerned with "fanservice" to me, they took a bunch of familiar elements and made a weird, experimental, and minimal movie that under delivers on appearances and development on a lot of characters that people consider important to the franchise's identity.

So I get why its divisive, and also not every part of the experiment works, but in my opinion, its one of the more interesting routes you could take with something as conceptually boring as a "reboot".

If 3.33 had Rei and Shinji start right from the end of the last movie and finally move that relationship forward while showing you everything you were dying to see at the conclusion of 2.0, I would consider that "otaku catering". Its interesting you seem to think 3.33's problem is playing it safe or pandering when the response is so frustrated specifically because it refused to do those things.

>>140338886
>3.33 doesn't feel very concerned with "fanservice" to me

That's because you don't know what fanservice is, or you don't want or admit it that it is. The Kaworu element alone being played up to such an enormous degree is by far the most otaku catering Evangelion has ever done in a story that could be considered serious.

>If 3.33 had Rei and Shinji start right from the end of the last movie and finally move that relationship forward while showing you everything you were dying to see at the conclusion of 2.0, I would consider that "otaku catering".
Then you'd be wrong obviously. No one considers the original TV-series or other similar stories as "otaku catering" - movies or stories that push forwards their characters and flesh them out can't be considered otaku pandering. Featuring characters evenly throughout the story is merely good practice.

On the other hand, the otaku 3.33 caters to would not like to see that, so not featuring Rei and Shinji caters strongly to them.

>Its interesting you seem to think 3.33's problem is playing it safe or pandering when the response is so frustrated specifically because it refused to do those things.
Not everyone is an otaku such as yourself or the others who enjoyed it. There's high expectations for Evangelion, and 3.33 decisively thrust it into purely otaku pandering territory. 3.33 did play it safe by catering strongly to the otaku crowd, which would guarantee it revenue and success - regardless of how poor the movie was.

You yourself, and everyone else usually freely admits that the movie has severe flaws, yet the movie is still lucrative despite this - this is because of the otaku catering element.

>>140339816
You seem to have a problem specifically with Kaworu, but his role in 3.33 isn't even different than in the series: the only changes made regarding that character is that he's on screen long enough for it to actually be believable the main character would be attached enough to be emotionally wrecked by their death.

Kaworu's also thematically an extremely important character in the film. He's the detached, nonhuman presence that can tell Shinji "all you need to do is try again and everything will be fixed".

The idea that a character who is significantly less popular than either Asuka or Rei was included at the expense of the other two as a cashgrab, or that his presence is the only reason a movie with the fucking Evangelion name attached was able to be successful even with poor responses, is fucking laughable.

>movies or stories that push forwards their characters and flesh them out can't be considered otaku pandering. Featuring characters evenly throughout the story is merely good practice.

I'm obviously not fucking saying that the mere presence of character development constitutes "pandering". My point is that delivering a product that just gives fans what they think they want to see without any attempt to shock or surprise with something they might not have known they wanted is playing it safe, and "pandering" to what fans have already decided they want.

3.0 isn't lacking in character development, but it narrows the focus of that development pretty much squarely on Shinji. If Shinji isn't your favorite, maybe there's not much to latch onto in the film, and that can certainly be called a weakness, but again, that's taking a risk, not "pandering"

>>140340478
>You seem to have a problem specifically with Kaworu,
Kaworu is mentioned because he's front and centre in promoting the movie, and the movie covers the character a lot in comparison to the original.

> but his role in 3.33 isn't even different than in the series: the only changes made regarding that character is that he's on screen long enough for it to actually be believable the main character would be attached enough

That's a downright lie. Kaworu's presence in 3.33 is far more farfetched and out of left field than it was in the original, which had by then very soundly established a solid MoTW routine, and had prepped the characters strongly beforehand. Shinji was believable in NGE, 3.33 is forced.

This is a point you'll have to concede, I'm afraid.

>Kaworu's also thematically an extremely important character in the film. He's the detached, nonhuman presence that can tell Shinji "all you need to do is try again and everything will be fixed".

Making Kaworu this "extremely important character" is what we'd call otaku pandering in this case. The character cannot support itself as anything else but a pandering device, despite having more focus and screentime than in the original.

>The idea that a character who is significantly less popular than either Asuka or Rei was included at the expense of the other two as a cashgrab, or that his presence is the only reason a movie with the fucking Evangelion name attached was able to be successful even with poor responses, is fucking laughable.
It is laughable, but it happened.

>My point is that delivering a product that just gives fans what they think they want to see
Which is precisely what 3.33 did for the otaku portion of the audience. I don't know what sort of version of 3.33 you're talking about, but there is only one.

>3.0 isn't lacking in character development
Objectively wrong, it has the least out of all three movies and resets characters.

It's called pandering because it focused on moe.

>>140340478
>>140340703
To sum it up, Kaworu being made extremely important without just cause in 3.33 is otaku pandering, as is the rest of the positively focused characters because they have no character or character development, only otaku-friendly presentation.

Kaworu is less believable and has less depth than the original, and in 3.33 his focus more or less sabotaged everything else going on in the film in terms of quality.

It is because of this desire and intent to pander that the movie drops any attempt at story or character development - it is therefore the worst thing about the Rebuilds so far.

>>140340703
>It is laughable, but it happened.

If you seriously think 3.33's box office success can be attributed to an OG series character with middling popularity supplanting the screen time of the traditional fan favorites, I don't know what to tell you. You're fucking delusional.

Evangelion can achieve big numbers regardless of the tone of response because its fucking Evangelion. Its an enormously strong brand with huge cultral awareness. Kaworu is fucking dead and the next movie will still be a massive success, regardless of the reception. Its Evangelion, people will turn out to see it, and the film's perception will be squared away after that.

>>140340986
>If you seriously think 3.33's box office success can be attributed to an OG series character with middling popularity supplanting the screen time of the traditional fan favorites, I don't know what to tell you. You're fucking delusional.

If you're still in denial that it happened, you're the one's who's delusional my friend. First, you're completely mistaken about what I meant when I said "lucrative", and you're acting as if Kaworu is the only thing about this movie that's pandering. It's not, Kaworu is only front and center. I can clear up everything if you want, and we can discuss one thing at a time instead of writing huge blobs. How does that sound?

>>140340829
>Kaworu being made an extreely important character without just cause

The idea that expanding a character's role is "unjust" simply because you don't like them as much as other cast members is hilarious. Kaworu is important to how 3.33 plays out, if he had a smaller role, the whole film would need to be different. Maybe you would prefer it that way, but with the story existing as it is, his inclusion is essential.

>>140341085
>The idea that expanding a character's role is "unjust" simply because you don't like them
>simply because you don't like them
Stopped reading. Not what I wrote, not what I meant, you're inserting opinions and arguments I don't have.

Post disregarded.

>>140341145
Okay, elaborate for me on why you think giving him more screentime in a story that specifically calls for his presence is unjust.

>>140340986
>an OG series character with middling popularity
are you unaware of how hard they've been pushing the fujoshi bait lately? Go look at the merch. And I say this as someone who likes Kaworu, it's that ridiculously blatant.

>>140341186
Because his character has gotten more focus and screentime but hasn't produced a better story or a better character. Kaworu in Rebuild is less poignant, has less depth as a character than the original who featured the character with less focus.

Kaworu being made extremely more important in the new story has no justification whatsoever, except for pleasing the fans of said character and to make it more popular. It dropped depth for an increased display of moe/attractive traits about the character, arguably ruining everything in the process because the writers took it too far.

>>140333979
I think it's way worse because the initial viewing is bewildering, which hides how completely stupid the movie is. Once you get over that, nothing shields you from the full force of how stupid all the characters suddenly act.

It's absolutely ridiculous how they made Kaworu even more shallow than in NGE.

>>140341357
Whether or not you think he was a good character or made for a good story is a matter of taste.

When you say:

>Kaworu being made extremely more important in the new story has no justification whatsoever, except for pleasing the fans of said character and to make it more popular.

I get the impression that you're not willing to accept him getting a larger role no matter how its done.

Would you concede that if Kaworu were written in a way that satisfied/impressed you but characters like Rei and Misato still didn't get much screentime, his presence would be justified?

>>140341684
>Whether or not you think he was a good character or made for a good story is a matter of taste.
It's not a matter of taste. It's a matter of fact - Kaworu has less facts, traits, motives, conflicts and so on processed in the movie despite having more screentime. Not only that, it's extremely unrealistic given the presented background of the movie for Kaworu to act the way he does. It only gets worse because remember, he has more focus and time now.

Yet it was wasted on pandering. They don't do anything with the character except set it up for otaku pandering. Zero development. No conflict, nothing.

>I get the impression that you're not willing to accept him getting a larger role no matter how its done.
No, you are clearly in denial here - you are defending the fact that he is getting a much larger role, despite knowing full well the damage it has caused to virtually everything else. The facts are that Kaworu had since 1.0 and 2.0 been getting a larger role already by virtue of appearing. He is in three out of three movies so far, compare that one out of 26 episodes. Clearly you can see the problem with the math here.

I was hoping that there would be justification for the vastly upgraded role, but there wasn't. It was just to facilitate otaku pandering, and that was that.

>>140341952
>It was just to facilitate otaku pandering
Not him, but Kaworu getting more screentime is a slap in the face for otaku since they don't like him, not otaku pandering.

>>140342531
You're quite wrong. Kaworu is popular among otaku - otaku is inclusive to both female and male members of the audience. There is a lot of merchandise sold these days as >>140341266
mentioned.

Not everyone likes Kaworu, but that's also true for Rei, Shinji, Misato etc....

Kaworu getting more screentime is first and foremost a slap in the face to anyone who loves Evangelion for Evangelion.

>>140342617
>Kaworu is popular among otaku
He's not. He's not popular among anyone. He has little to no fans.

Giving him screentime instead of the characters who were actually popular is the slap in the face. It's the opposite of otaku pandering.

>>140342688
>He's not. He's not popular among anyone. He has little to no fans.
You're uninformed.

Consider yourself dismissed. In the 90's he was second only to Shinji in the popularity rankings.

>>140342735
You're uniformed, faggot.
You don't even have any evidence for the bullshit you spout.

Kaworu was never popular. Even Maya has more fans than him.

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>>140342814
You will get two more replies.

This one shows Kaworu in 2nd place to the right, after Shinji.
The next will also be one of the many polls made, and then you can get out.

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>>140342814
>>140342885
and this one, where Kaworu is above Shinji.

>>140342885
>chinkshit
How do I know you're not just making shit up? Fucking kill yourself, fujoshit.

>>140341952
>>140341684
Disappointing, no reply?

>>140343659
You started you reply by firmly stating that your opinion is fact, so there's really no point in continuing.

I think I grasp your position better now than I did from your first posts though. Have a wonderful day anon.

>>140343893
>You started you reply by firmly stating that your opinion is fact, so there's really no point in continuing.
I stated facts derived from the series. Facts like this:
>Kaworu has less facts, traits, motives, conflicts and so on processed in the movie despite having more screentime.
pertaining to the character.

This is you running away from a discussion because you may have to concede. If these weren't facts, you could dispute and disprove, but since you can't...

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>>140342885
>>140342968
Damn son

>>140333979
like expensive alcohol it gets even shittier with age and only pretentious faggots feel the need to validate their superiority by pretending that they enjoy it
the originals are good, rebuild are shit though

>>140345341
>like expensive alcohol it gets even shittier with age
??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!?

>>140343893
>>140343997
Filthy, dumb, kaworufag scum

I like the rebuilds.

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>>140346317
>I like the rebuilds.


>Yes. Yes.
>Number 140346317.
>Yes.
>Proceed with elimination.

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>>140346408
>Proceed with elimination.

>>140346488
Not in Rebuild you aren't.

>>140346541
>Not in Rebuild you aren't.
>He doesn't know

>>140346541
Wait, what?

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>>140346651
They killed the whole clone backup thing.

>>140346712
Confirmed canon + source?

>>140346791
Watch 3.33. A lot about 3.33 downright stinks.

>>140346820
Where did they confirm it in 3.33?

>>140346933
Rei Q, Fuyutsuki scene etc

>>140346959
I feel a rewatch coming on