Why is it tha the psychological, surreal anime like Eva, Utena,

they are less popular than you think.
anime is less popular than you think.
TV trumps the anime industry.

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>>140292630
Directors trusted their audiences.
It was the early days of anime before it went mainstream.
None of these anime would be released nowadays.

>>140292698
So because anime in general is niche, producers can allow themselves to produce even more niche products? I don't see how that works.

>>140292777
>early days
Anime has been around since the 1910s. Plus, before the 90s anime saught even more of a mainstream appeal, practically all anime was made for kids, most was adapted and the only original ones were made to sell toys.

>>140292777
>implying 2003 was the early days of anime
>implying these were all successes
Kill yourself, you retarded faggot.

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>>140292777
>late 90's
>early days of anime

Oh child.

>>140292875
>>140292924
>>140292941
I ment the early days of anime as it exists now.
Everyone switched to digital in this time frame and the industry changed.
I'm not saying that anime nowadays is bad but it and its industry is definitely different.

>>140293049
Yes anon, things change over time, making them different. Wow!

Would you like a sticker?

>>140293049
>everyone switched to digital in this time frame
Only two of the anime he listed were made after the first digital anime, so that's another strike.

>>140293121
My point is that the sort of anime the OP mentioned wouldn't be aired today and that there is not some magical difference that makes animefans appreciate shows like these more than the average TV-watcher would.

>>140292630
Outside of Eva, the anime you listed was not particularly popular in any mainstream sense when they were broadcast in Japan, but they most definitely had their particular niche audience like you said.

Anime when localized in western countries is (or was) carefully chosen to offer a much different alternative to western cartoons, in this case surreal and complicated stories, hence the consumption or marketing for these particular shows seems slightly bigger and wider than in native Japan at times.

I still have my Lain lunchbox

>>140293274
> the sort of anime the OP mentioned wouldn't be aired today
I disagree. We've had the Rebuilds airing, we've had Penguindrum and YKA from Ikuhara, we were going to get Despera from ABe/Konaka until the cold struck and we might still, and we've had some Oshii stuff too, except it was bad because he's old and worthless now.

>>140292630
The medium lends itself well to those types of works.

>>140292810
If you have a niche audience you should cater to them when they are the ones buying your product.
These were mostly originals made to fill a time-slot or adaptations that stuck to the source.

Think less dense, retard.

>>140293346
>Rebuilds
They are only succesful because they are leaning on the success of EVA back then (like Star Wars nowadays)

>Penguindrum, YKA
Barely the same kind of psychological anime that OP mentioned

>Oshii
you said it yourself

>>140293503
Why are we talking about success? Only NGE was ever that successful of these anyway.

>>140293503
>Barely the same kind of psychological anime that OP mentioned
OP doesn't know what the fuck he's saying when he calls that list surreal, anyway. Both of these were very odd, niche, and non-commercial, and there's nothing fundamental about them that would allow them to be made but prevent the sort of stuff he's talking about.

>you said it yourself
But quality has nothing to do with it. Your argument isn't about the ability of the creators, it's about the ability of these things to be made because apparently people don't "trust the audience" anymore.

>>140293274
>the sort of anime the OP mentioned wouldn't be aired today

You mean like Shinsekai Yori?

Or Kaiba?

Or Pale Coccoon?

Or Tatami Galaxy?

Please anon, do everybody here a favour, and wait until you turn 18 before even coming on here. AFTER you turn 18 you can then start lurking for several years. And only once 3 years at least have passed should you start posting your asinine wank.

>>140292630
I don't think there are many works like this though. Besides the ABe/Ueda shows, NGE, Ikuhara, Kon and Oshii works. That's practically it. It was never a trend.

>>140292630
The age of original anime is over.
No studio would give a relatively unknown director full creative control over what they want to make, that is the main issue.

In that way, we're quite lucky to have directors like Yuasa, and Ikuhara who don't particularly care about the sales aspect when they make something.

>>140293910
>No studio would give a relatively unknown director full creative control over what they want to make, that is the main issue.
Toei did with Rie Matsumoto on Kyousogiga.

>>140292777
It was because in the 90s there was a lot you could talk in your anime. Key the metal idol couldn't be made now simply because in the 90s we were afraid of robots, of ias, of science, for example.
What are we afraid of now? nothing, our big scares are terrorists but they are scary only when they do things, otherwise no one cares.

It has nothing to do with directors trusting the audience, it has all to do with directors having nothing to talk about.

>>140293622
Yeah okay success was the wrong word, I meant they wouldn't be aired.

>OP doesn't know what the fuck he's saying when he calls that list surreal, anyway. Both of these were very odd, niche, and non-commercial, and there's nothing fundamental about them that would allow them to be made but prevent the sort of stuff he's talking about.

I agree but I think OP was talking about this particular niche of anime that roughly connects NGE, Lain, Texhnolyze etc.

>But quality has nothing to do with it. Your argument isn't about the ability of the creators, it's about the ability of these things to be made because apparently people don't "trust the audience" anymore

The anime market is a whole lot more calculated now, no studio would finance this sort of (for a lack of better word) "mindfuck" anime because they'd be afraid that it wouldn't make enough money. (because the anime didn't make a lot money even back then).

I guess what I was trying to say is that this anime was absolutely niche and their existence was only possible because the industry was different back then.

>>140293910
Kanji Nakamura made Kuchuu Buranko and Mononoke.

>>140293910
>No studio would give a relatively unknown director full creative control over what they want to make, that is the main issue.
That was never common. Lain's the only one of what OP listed that would fit that description.

>>140294036
> this anime was absolutely niche
I agree.

> their existence was only possible because the industry was different back then
I disagree. A majority of TV anime sell under 3k copies. No one's expecting everything they put out to be a big success, and there are certainly people willing to make things that clearly won't be. Again, see YKA, or Ping Pong, or even Aku no Hana (again, quality is not the point, it was a creative risk regardless of how stupid it was). Or Hana to Alice, for movies.

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>>140294036
>mindfuck
>lack of a better word

None of those anime are "mindfucks", you child. No less than anime that have already been mentioned in this thread that clearly disprove your absent minded theories.

>>140292698
>trump
>>>/pol/

>>140293627
>start lurking for several years

Ain't nobody got time for that! i'd rather go post on reddit.

>>140294457
LotGH wishes it were as good as literally any other anime mentioned so far in this thread.

>>140294493
He wasn't referring to Donald Trump, dumbass

>>140292630
I think it has to do with a combination of the existing worldview and the impact of the digital age.

Japan was once of the forerunners when it came to digital technology, and the Japanese culture is full of mysticism. I would imagine that such an environment would be more open minded and also fascinated by more progressive genres of entertainment.

>>140292630
If you look at popular/successful anime (not just contemporary anime), you'll find that there's a lot more diversity both in style, themes and how "realistic" their worlds are.

You have much more freedom with visual styles and world design when you can literally draw anything you want, as opposed to actually being restricted to film, especially decades ago. I don't think we could've had a decent Evangelion if it were a live action show back when the anime came out.

Even nowadays you can easily see that even TV shows that focus entirely on unrealistic/supernatural elements end up generally avoiding showing any impressive-looking magic or anything like that, because it's much more complicated to do that when you're not drawing anything you want, but have to use realistic CGI and whatever is actually available IRL.

My point is, I don't think there's a reason psychological, weird anime is popular while actual filmed shows like that are rare other than the simple fact that making a high-quality filmed show with that sort of art direction and those kinds of visual motifs would be very difficult, as there is inherently less flexibility to what you can easily put on screen.

>>140292630
Yes and live-action does realism/naturalism better than anime. Not really a revelation or anything.

>>140294205
>That was never common
OP lists Angel's Egg, which apparently nearly led to the director's blacklisting. He later went on to make GitS.

>>140301747
You're not an unknown after directing Urusei Yatsura, anon.

I just want directors and studios to push the boundaries of anime as a medium, it's main advantage over film is that it doesn't have to be too grounded on reality, imo a lot of the time I feel like the stories they put out nowadays would work better with reasonably well directed live-action.
We need more of the Likes of Eva,Texhnolyze, RSF Honeymayo, Mononoke-Hime, Kaguya-Hime, or Patlabor.

>>140302769
> imo a lot of the time I feel like the stories they put out nowadays would work better with reasonably well directed live-action
I disagree, the use of real people alone would disqualify most of them.

>>140302887
I'll give you that

>>140302769

Anime is too expensive to do this and thus they make guaranteed sellers.

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These types of works come and go. I'm sure in the next year or so we'll see a few more unique titles come out like these. I really like them for some reason.

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Who's paying for Despera?

>>140304410
I want to get a reference about Tesla from Ain. It's set in 1922 and she's a genius.

Will buy it.

>>140292630
Except for Eva they're not that popular. And I think even Eva wasn't expected to be as big as it became. If you think they're big and common is because anons have long memories or consume so much media that they keep getting discovered, and as such the good stuff never really goes away. So that helps create this image that all this great anime just came out one after the other. The shit's been forgotten.

>>140305203
Damn, I fucked that one up. Let me try again.
>>140293983
>Q: Matsumoto, how did Kyousogiga change from the original web series to the television series?
>M: This is also a place where a sponsor has a lot of say. My individual say doesn’t necessarily reflect on the animation itself. Sponsors don’t have too much to say, but because they give us a certain amount of money, I want to maximize the enjoyment for viewers using that money. That’s about it.
It sounds a little unclear. I can believe she had a lot of creative control but the way things fell apart towards the end makes me wonder if they maybe pulled the reigns back a bit at that point.

>>140295522
>what is a joke

>>140304538
I mean, who is funding the whole thing.

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>>140292698
Its more about the fact that Anime is not intended for children. And once that happens, some directors are allowed to go full overboard.
There is also trends set by the early mangakas. There is a huge focus on things being weird and trippy from the get go, and going all out is actually rare. Even Tezuka wanted his shit to be trippy and weird, in between going hard on for morals.

>>140293337
Also this is a important point.
When Cartoon Network or whatever want to get new fresh Anime, they want it because its different.
One thing is cartoon series, like Beyblade. But when they choose, they do choose stuff like EVA, Kill La Kill, or anything even remotely trippy or absurd.
We simply desire it, because we don't get that in the west.

>>140295522
Next you'll be telling me that the XD in XDCC isn't actually an emoticon.

>>140306179
>There is also trends set by the early mangakas. There is a huge focus on things being weird and trippy from the get go, and going all out is actually rare. Even Tezuka wanted his shit to be trippy and weird, in between going hard on for morals.
You know manga and TV anime started at different times, right? Actual early manga didn't get any "trippier" than maybe some liberal political sentiments.

Anime relies on BD sales instead of advertising.

>>140302887
I don't know, a lot of the most acclaimed anime of the past few years would work in live action at least narrative wise. ERASED,Psycho-pass, and Death Parade, as well as every SoL comedy and probably Monogatari would all be very easy to adapt to live action.