So we got some not middle ages setting in some manga or light

>>135578068
> anime isn't historically accurate and often doesn't make any sense at all
No way! How on Earth could that happen?

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>>135578068

Favaro wore some decent gear

>>135578068
>leather armor
That was never a thing. You're no better than the guy who thought belt-armor was appropriate. At least his armor actually looks cool.

>>135578152

Well you see the thing is that everyone else uses them and dresses somewhat accordingly....

>>135578157

Though, unless he is left handed he is wearing the shoulder and elbow guards on the wrong side am I right?

>>135578243
Wrong.

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>>135578243
Guts never really wore armor on his sword arm, so apparently it works.

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So is this an arms and armor thread?

>>135578160

Pretty fucking sure warriors from the steppes used leather in their armors extensively.

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>>135578340

>>135578243
That depends on his stance.
Normally you'd want a shield along with your sword, even if it's just a buckler.
But with a shield your body is obviously oriented in a way that puts that shield into the front.

Late medieval Italian knights had completely abandoned shields because their armor was just that good, but those armors still had an emphasis on the left side, because that was where they'd get hit the most.
He's got neither a shield nor real armor, but he's also an anime character who doesn't exactly move realistically in combat.

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>>135578369

>>135578160

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiled_leather

Dark Souls Anime when??

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>>135578399

>>135578347
Everybody used leather - to hold the armor together.
That doesn't make it leather armor. It just means your armor has leather parts. If you can't use metal, you'll probably go for very thick stuffing.

>>135578243
Your off-hand is on the same side as the enemy's sword hand (unless they're left-handed), which means swings are more likely to come at your left side than your right.

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>>135578432

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>>135578347
Don't listen to him, leather armor was widely used for millenia. Hoplites wore leather armor for example, and medieval knights wore leather and/or padded armor under their plate.

>>135578390

Yeah that's true, it really would depend on his stance.

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>>135578468

>>135578476
Hoplites wore padding if the climate allowed it. And a mix of leather, bronze and wood for the cuirasses.

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>>135578508

>using plate,mail,leather etc
Why would you do that? It severely restricts your movement and MC usually is an agile fellow

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>>135578068
plate mail is expensive. And you wouldn't really wear it you aren't on the battlefield, since it really restricts movement a lot.
People mostly wore gambesons, which are like thick trench coats made out of (horse) hair or wool. And some helmet to protect from head injury.

Sometimes it was also worn in combination with (plate)mail armor as padding. Could even stop arrows if done so.

>>135578476
>Hoplites wore leather armor for example
Nope it was made from bronze.
Armor from gluing lots of layers of cloth together was also used.

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>>135578528

>>135578553
Because if you never wear plate you can never have an armored dick.

>>135578476
>wore leather and/or padded armor under their plate.
Yeah, they wore a gambeson. They didn't just wear leather armor.

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>>135578587

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>>135578618

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>>135578522
>>135578559
>>135578600


Their armor varied but they did wear leather reinforced with metal in vital spots

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>>135578649

>>135578553
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hlIUrd7d1Q

>>135578671
>leather reinforced with metal
Indeed. Because leather sucks as a standalone armor.

>>135578671
Thats Leather and Wood, to coved up the pattern, to avoid enemy stabbing directly for weak spots.
Also protection against arrows.

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>>135578682

>>135578671
Nope, the armor you posted is exactly the cloth armor i described.

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>>135578728

inb4 Hox

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>>135578771

>>135578692
Actual swordfighting is so much cooler than the shit you usually see in games, movies or anime.

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>>135578798

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>everyone is wearing some sort of armor out on some big ass battlefield
>the main character who is a high ranking commander of noble descent runs around in some jacket

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>>135578829

>>135578160
Maybe if you mean the Hollywood leather armor, which is only split leather.
But take a look at an actual leather hide and you will realize why it worked decently as armor. It was just heavy as shit.

>>135578818
>cooler than the shit you usually see in games,
Because people have more than 5 maneuvers?
Because people actually react appropriately to the situation at hand?
Or is it because you are not preoccupied with left click left click right click left click hoooold release left click right click left click?

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>>135578871

>>135578904
Above all I'd say because it's fucking practical.

I like practical, efficient things.

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>>135578913

>>135578939
Like shooting the fucker with a crossbow instead of allowing him to get close enough to hit you with his sword.

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Rapier needs more love

>>135578818
>No HEMA club in your neighborhood.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5w2Mh6CyXo

>>135578967
Exactly. I'm probably tired so my statement came across as really dumb but what I was trying to get across is just that I enjoy looking at actual medieval combat a lot more than what Hollywood or anime producers have deemed is "cool"

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Reminds me of this


note these two belonged to the same army both were generals

>>135579010
One a scale from 1 to 10 where 1 is good armor and 10 is armor that chafes, puts you off-balance, doesn't protect you, severely hinders your movements and looks silly, this looks to be a 10.
But at least she's got a rapier with a full guard that is way over-sized and highly impractical.

>>135578705
Sure it wasn't as good but not everyone was well off enough to afford better and they went with whatever protection they could.

>>135578705

Oh crap you're right, I forgot about the Linthorax armor.

>>135579147

Yeah but she's got a rapier in a samurai fighting game.

Those poor japs will get fist fucked by the rapier

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>>135578818
You'd be surprised how much humans fighting goes to the ground yet you NEVER EVER see that. You'd think it would be somewhat prominent in anime seeing as Judo is a big deal in Japan.

One of the biggest parts of fighting with almost any hand-to-hand weapon at least the length of a forearm is using it as a lever to assist in grappling, which is also something you never see unless its like an underhanded thing.

Junketsu no Maria is the only show in recent memory that does stuff like this correctly, though it is only featured a couple of times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzTwBQniLSc

>>135579218
I will never understand how a rapier is better than any other sword of similar lenght.

>>135579218
>Those poor japs will get fist fucked by the rapier
No, they won't because of the over-sized guard.
You can't swing that sword properly if the center of gravity is so off and the the whole weapon is too heavy besides.

>>135578559
What the fuck, get your facts right, faggot. Plate mail hindering your movement is a fucking myth. Knights had money and they definitely wore full plate because it afforded the best protection.

>>135579191
>Sure it wasn't as good but not everyone was well off enough to afford better and they went with whatever protection they could.
That was usually just thick clothing.
If you're too poor for metal, you are also too poor for boiled leather worked into an armor by an expert tanner.

>>135579287
Already posted >>135579236 to shut the fuck up of faggots like >>135578559 and mug mobility.

>>135578508
>outfabbing your opponent 101

Must be impractical as shit, though

>>135579147
That's not a rapier, dude.

Rapiers have a blade.

That's more like a fencing foil with a point.

>>135579219
Also I really want to know why half-swording is almost never a thing.

>>135579314

There was definitely a middle ground since plate was much more expensive

>>135579287
>Plate mail hindering your movement is a fucking myth.
It doesn't hinder your movements as much as the media would have you believe but it does hinder your movements.

>>135578947
Is he sterile now ?

>>135579360
That middle ground generally included metal or was based on stuffing (akin to the gambeson.

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am I cool yet?

>>135579407
That's why you invest in plate with codpiece.

You dumb faggots who keep saying "plate mail" have no idea what you're talking about.

Plate mail = Mail with lamellar-like plates common in the Middle East, Central Asia, China, and parts of Eastern Europe, exceptionally rare in Central/Western Europe.

>>135578553
>severely restricts movement
Jousting armour maybe, but generally no. Plate and mail are pretty fucking nifty unless MC needs to go swimming every 5 minutes.

>>135579353
My mistake. It looked like a blade to me.

>>135579219
I suspect this is because in the modern era people's exposure to sword fighting is the various forms of fencing, a *sport* rather then a genuine martial art.

Post some Filippo Negroli pls.

>>135579355
Because normal people look at it and go "hurr blades are sharp you can't do that", yet those same people will say shit like "swords are versatile weapons" when the fact that you can hold it by the blade IS EXACTLY THE REASON WHY.

>>135579593
I suspect this is because in the modern era people's exposure to sword fighting is movies and TV and nothing else, which is also why so many people think swords are hacking weapons.

>>135579634
Honestly I kinda want to buy For Honor when it comes out just because it actually features half-swording to some degree.

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>>135578401
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiled_leather
>reading asoiaf
>tfw boiled leather is akin to Jordan's skirt smoothing and braid tugging

we've come full circle

>>135578425
Why is this not a thing? It'd sell like hot cakes.

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Is there a superior armour or what?

>>135579664
I'm not expecting much from Ubisoft anymore, but for Honor looks pretty decent. I have higher hopes for Kingdom come though

>>135579819
I got a tiny shred of hope back after Rainbow Six Siege turned out to be pretty good so I'm willing to wish a little bit at least.

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>>135578068
>There will never ever be a chinese cartoon where the MC wear full faced armor while never talk and just do gesture to reply or communicate.

Will wait forever.

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>>135579964
She's the best

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>>135579762
>>135579964
A DS anime really could go any number of directions. Action, SOL, mystery, you name it. Plus, the DEEPEST LORE could get some explanation.
>But it will never, ever happen.

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>formations of soldiers marching as orderly units with defined lines
>someone yells charge
>both groups just smash into each other
>battle becomes a ridiculous confusing melee
>archers start shooting into the melee (with fire arrows)
>just stupid chaos
>this is apparently a "good action sequence"

>>135578671
>>135578705
That's not leather armor or leather armor with wood; it's a linothorax with a scale belt covering the stomach.

For those not in the know, a linothorax is a suit of body armor made from successive layers of linen that have been glued together. It uses a similar principle to a modern bulletproof vest in order to stop spears and arrows and things, and it was actually incredibly effective at doing so--more than any suit of leather armor could be, while also being far cheaper to make.

For more details: http://www.uwgb.edu/aldreteg/Linothorax.html>>1

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>>135578068
Maybe they're too poor. A full set of plate was nearly the same cost as a house back them

Did adventurers such as D&D style adventurers or RPG protagonists actually exist as a thing?

If people weren't going off to war or jousting I can't see them spending a lot of their time wanting to wear armor.

I know that plate armor isn't actually very heavy as people think and it's weight is distributed over your body so it's not that difficult to carry but it is something you want to avoid taking off and on frequently because it can take well over an hour. I can't see someone waking up each morning, donning their armor, and walking about in it all day. It makes sense to me that people on an 'adventure' would minimize the amount of time spent wearing armor.

I do know from my medieval club I was in during my college years that during the renaissance men would carry swords and gauntlets for protection, the gauntlets could be used to block and parry an opposing sword. They otherwise wore no armor because to do so would be cumbersome. But that's the renaissance.

>>135580357
Oh please. If you were that poor you'd definitely be drafted by your knight for combat, and then it's common sense to tear a pauldron or two off for yourself.
>Tfw we will never get an anime about a plate prospector collecting armour parts from different battles and buying and selling in the armour trade

>>135580469
>Did adventurers such as D&D style adventurers or RPG protagonists actually exist as a thing?

Strictly speaking, no.

During the low middle ages, the closest thing you would have to something like that would be a gang of poachers or robbers, and even they likely would have to have a day job (consider: how are you going to live off of robbing travelers when there's comparatively little trade and most people stay within 20 miles of where they are born for their entire lives.

During the high middle ages, when warfare was ramping up and becoming larger in scale, you did have Companies of Adventure. Those were more like the predecessor to modern PMCs than any kind of adventurer guild you see in a japanese cartoon or video game though.

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One of the best gear IMO

>>135579964
>curved sword

>baroque helm and breast plate but only chain mail on the upper arms

>>135580072
Who are you quoting?

>>135580469
>Did adventurers such as D&D style adventurers or RPG protagonists actually exist as a thing?
Not really, the closest equivalent were probably professional mercenaries as opposed to the regular kind.

>>135578179
You may as well complain about the MC's unique hair color, name, humongous sword and the fact that his father was the demon king.

>>135579415

and leather

>>135578553
They wouldn't restrict movement giveb that the joints were made correctly. If anything, they would just weigh him down, but people are usually trained in the art of wearing armor.

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>>135580072

Everytime.

>>135581393
>They wouldn't restrict movement giveb that the joints were made correctly.
Yes, they actually would restrict your movement. It is always a trade-off. Protection versus mobility.
A well made armor allows you to still move efficiently in combat, but that doesn't mean that you haven't lost mobility.

>>135580069
I know its not as popular and people will disagree here but I feel a Demon's Souls anime would be a better choice. The lore is more straightforward with more clarity in my opinion. Its also a bit more structured with the five levels so it would be easy to structure the show so nothing gets rushed too much.

>>135578068
>He runs around with a fucking trench coat thats packed with belts and zippers

Because that's cool.

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>everyone uses swords instead of the standard pikes and assorted pointy stick formations
>everyone uses scream-the name-before-you-use-it techniques of magical mystery bullshit instead of the gritty combat of yesteryear, including grabbing your sword by the blade, if need be, and shoving it through the other bastard as though it was a spear
>no wavy bladed swords being outlawed by the church because they inflict wounds that can't be treated if not instant death on the people chopped by them

>>135582337
>implying the special feats available for spears are even comparable to those for swords
Death Blow isn't too shabby, but it's available for swords too and it just can't compare to Master Flurry in terms of pure damage output.

>>135578068
Just when you see the typical teenage boy it's a sign that you must avoid that shit. Or when you see that he should be a super trained warrior that wields a sword 3 times bigger than him and he has the body of a middle schooler

>>135578068
>Why do they do this again?

dodge>parrying>tanking

>>135583263
>dodge>parrying
>moving your body out of the way is better than moving the sword out of the way
What do you weigh, 2 pounds?

>>135578068
Yes, because medieval fantasy in all other mediums is known for its accuracy and for having fully-armored protagonists, right?

>>135583263
>dodge>parry

Since when is easier to move a whole person rather than the weapon?

>>135581776
Well, so is Bloodborne.
But even if they would do it, it would be shit.

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>>135578068
>Now does the main character use a plate mail,chain mail.leather armor etc nope.
First of all, the armour in your picture is not medieval, it's early modern. It's a German style bellows visor helmet that was popular in the early 16th century.

Also, it's not "plate mail". "mail" is a type of armour which refers to interlinked rings of metal, usually rivited together, it's not a term generally used for armour but only that kind. If anything it would be "plate armour". Certainly there is transitional armour which was around during the 14th century, where mail armour was reinforced with pieces made of plate, but even that wouldn't generally be referred to as "plate mail".

>>135579219
>You'd be surprised how much humans fighting goes to the ground yet you NEVER EVER see that. You'd think it would be somewhat prominent in anime seeing as Judo is a big deal in Japan.
It's hard to animate.

Guess why in lots of cases you don't even see actual "fencing" but only a freeze frame of a guy striking another and then a cut to his movement being finished with the other guy being "cut" by some sort of flash of light to give you the impression that he was super fast.

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>>135580469
>Did adventurers such as D&D style adventurers or RPG protagonists actually exist as a thing?
To a certain extent they did.

During the High Middle Ages it was common for knights to travel from court to court to recite poetry and participate in tournaments, often for prize money, to gain attention of ladies or to find an employee.

The Codex Manesse is filled with knights and princes who did such a thing. Obviously they didn't fight monsters or anything and partake in all kinds of quests in reality, but it was probably closest to this life of adventure.

In medieval epic poems we also have something akin in the form of Gawain and the Green Knight, Parzival, or the famed Frauendienst by Ulrich von Liechtenstein who in his fictional autobiography dresses up as a woman and challenges knights to duels and participates in tournaments in order to win the favour of Lady Venus. In the late middle ages we also have something resembling it in the form of the Weißkünig (The White King), a fictional biography of Emperor Maximilian I. showing him perform all kinds of chivalrous miracle deeds akin to a late medieval Hercules.

When it comes to wearing armour there is an account of the Reichsritter Ulrich von Hutten who mentions that due to feuds it is fairly common for knights to only ever leave the house with horses and men while clad in iron, even for hunt and fishing, since you never know with whom your lord is at feud right now and who might take you prisoner and rob you of half of your belongings. If you have played Mount & Blade it should give you a good idea of what medieval life for a knight was like.

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>>135585167
>find an employee
By that I meant "find an employer", obviously.

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>>135578157
I liked the knight armor in Bahamut.

>>135579145
Fucking jackets trigger me more that bad armors or boobplates

>>135585677
Jackets are a great deal more sensible to wear than bad armor.

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As far as fictional armor goes, I've always been a fan of the Twilight Princess Darknut

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>>135585523
They had some nice looking gear.

>>135585729

Pretty much this, even worse when the said individual is of high rank of stature.

>>135585912
Back to /r9k/ with you.

>>135579252
Portuguese fighters armed with rapiers and main gauches ocasionally fought and kicked samurai's asses according to historical documents I'm sure someone else can provide

>>135579469
I'd wear that, 10/10

>>135585954
No one's detesting that rapiers are viable weapons. You are missing the point.
Look at the bloody image.

>>135586053

It's a fucking vs fighting game what do you expect?

>>135579236
Reach advantage, mostly. They're nimble (but not light) and can threaten you from multiple changing points from a distance. Even the longest of longswords do not have the same reach because they are held with two hands. They also have that handy basket hilt that is much better at protecting the fencer's hands.

>>135585954

Not only the Japanese, the chinese also got onto the wrong end.

According to a cctv docu about Japanese sword fighting, it is said during this period of time, the Japanese and Chinese added in new thrust attacks and counter thrust attacks, into their sword fighting manuals.

>>135579236
Rapiers were used mainly for self protection, rarely on a batte field.

However they are way batter at stabbing the vulnerable spots of armor unlike most other sword, which were thicker.

>>135579022
That's a good channel.

>>135586053
Yeah sorry, that post kinda went in two branches of discussion, one detesting rapiers and one detesting that cumbersome foil she's using. But I mean, she's wearing stiletto heels for chrissake.

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>>135585820
She probably has my least favorite armor out of the knights, probably because hers is taken straight from the game and simplified slightly. I find a lot of the game designs overly busy, though I understand why they didn't want to change her design much from the game to the show.

The random grunt knights had cool armor too.

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Seems a lot of folks here missed the point.

It's just absurd when the MC who is usually some kind of Knight or whatever runs around with some jacket. While even some random mook militia man wears some kind of protective armour.

>>135583298
>>135583647
in a sword fight you're generally two sword lengths away from your opponent. dodging a thrust or lunge is just shifting your weight a few centimeters with your legs and allows for a faster counter attack.

>>135586438
See >>135581150.

>>135586438
But MCs wear armor
Its called plot armor

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>>135578068
now I feel like re reading berserk

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>>135579287
>>135579382

>>135586533
Better to control the enemy's sword point. But it's true that you can "spill" out of an enemy's attack with just small movements. Gatka being a prime example of a fighting style with an emphasis on that.

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>>135586549

Well that's true but still I cannot stand when I see everyone wearing armour but for some reason the main character just has to have some jacket.

It's even better when the horses have more armour.

>>135578692
>Knightly CQC

>>135586745
Now show me somebody playing cards with a metal gauntlet on, or somebody touching his left shoulder with his right elbow while wearing full plate.
I specifically said that the hindrance was less than what media would have you believe, but you are delusional if you think there is none.

>>135586955
>touching his left shoulder with his right elbow while wearing full plate
I don't think I could do that without.

>>135586745
>that complex plate skirt

>>135586955
>touching his left shoulder with his right elbow while wearing full plate.
I straight up can't do that even without armor. I mean, maybe if my elbow was pushed into my shoulder or something.

>>135586438
Those look ugly, no series is going to sell with characters wearing those.
Unless they are lolis, that changes everything

>>135586955
>touching his left shoulder with his right elbow
W-what
Is this really possible for normal humans?

>>135586983
>>135587077
The matter of the fact is that the joints of plate armor are rather restrictive.
You can fight against an enemy within those restrictions, because the designers had combat on their agenda, but that doesn't mean these restrictions aren't there.

You see all those photos of plate armor in this thread? Even very late gauntlets were actually designed as mittens, giving you no individual freedom for your fingers, because every joint is a weakness, and armor is always a compromise between protection and mobility.

>>135587125
>random mook militia man

Reading comprehension?

>>135587184
I'd post a photo if I were an attention whore (and if I could still operate my phone while stretching my arm).

>>135586955
>touching his left shoulder with his right elbow while wearing full plate.
Fuck you for making me try that, dont want to image someone doing it with armor

>>135587200
>Even very late gauntlets
*Some late medieval gauntlets
fixed for clarity

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>>135586320
I like how when Kaisar became a knight they gave him some uniform armor and he kept it for the rest of the series.

>>135587184
You can kinda touch forearm and forearm if you try and touch the left side of the back of your neck using the right hand and using the left to assist the elbow but it never touches the shoulder.

>>135586764
just backing up that guys point that dodging is preferable to parrying, even if it's not as easy in most situations.
and people are making it sound like you need super human reflexes to dodge a sword; it takes about the same reaction time as dodging a punch.

>>135585167
>>135580829
>>135580651
>>135580469
No idea about mevieval armors so gonna ask
Why not just sleep with the armor on? Sit against a wall?

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>>135587278
Ha, yeah. He looks pretty handsome in that armor Lavalley wears though. He should level up and get that armor in season two.

>>135587302
But a failed dodge is much more catastrophic, especially if an enemy expects it and swings accordingly.

>>135587388
During the hundred years war there was an occasion when the english army was on the run from the french, and they required that their knights never take off their armor so as to be ready if caught off-guard. So they slept with armor, sat with armor, ate with armor and performed their duties with armor on. They did so for a week straight. By then the armor was red with rust, dirt and mud.

But wearing any kind of armor is cumbersome. You'd be sore after an entire day with it on. Less still if you were untrained and going around lifting stuff or performing anything more complex than walking around.

>>135587125

What is berserk.

>>135587518
>During the hundred years war
So, what kind of armor are we talking about here?

>>135579287
It might not hinder movement in terms of restricting joint movement as some of the videos posted in the thread show, but you have to remember that it was really, really fucking heavy. Sure, you might be able to move around in it without actual restriction on how much you can bend your appendages, but it's gonna tire you out really quickly if you're trying to move or fight for any significant distance or length of time with 100 pounds of metal on your body.

>>135587518
Did they have to shit and piss in their armor for a whole week? That fucking sucks.

>>135587682
>100 pounds
That's plain wrong and you should look that shit up before posting.
I am saying this while I am defending the position that plate armor hinders your mobility.

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>>135586955
>>135586745
plate armor was designed with full range of motion in mind, at least as fighting was concerned.

the main limitation is that shit weight about 40lb, about the same as modern military equipment. lifting 40lb isn't a problem for a fit man, the problem is fighting with it for extended periods of time.
also 99% of any military campaign was marching, when your spending day after day carrying all your gear, every pound counts.

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some generic great war set in some feudal peasantry society. well I guess I can pass time with it

this is the main character


yup fucking dropped

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>>135587405
Yeah. I hope he has an armor/cape combo. He could pull that off.

Apparently he was originally supposed to be a coatguy, huh.

>>135587814
>at least as fighting was concerned.
Exactly.
You don't need to be able to play cards. You need to be able to do a lance charge, and when your lance is broken you need to able to swing your sword efficiently.

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>>135587647
Plate.

>>135587993
That's impressive.

>>135587917
>Kaisar was originally a trench coat guy

And we have come full circle. Also, I love looking at these early designs in the art book. Man they really nailed it in the end, because some of that early stuff was either hilarious, or generic as fuck.

>>135587814
>the problem is fighting with it for extended periods of time.
don't military guys do ruck runs where they load the fuck up on gear and then run for miles?

>>135588063
That's one thing. It's a different thing to keep swinging a weapon around at a decent speed for several hours. Once you slow down, you're dead.

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>>135588060

That was not really trench coat though more akin to some 1800s hussar it's still dumb though

>>135588127
One thing is carrying and lifting 100 pounds in your hands and arms. Another is carrying 100 pounds through your whole body. Remember: plate armor had harnesses and stuff that made it stick to your body and never need to sustain weight in any focused part. Even when you look at chainmail, most of the weight is not on your shoulders but also held by your hips because it rests on a thick belt.

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armor thread?

>>135587814
>also 99% of any military campaign was marching, when your spending day after day carrying all your gear, every pound counts.

That's why the used horses.

>>135587814
also I'll add that, because of leverage, any kind of weight on your forearms is exponentially heavier. a normal sword is ~3lb, plus whatever metal gauntlets weight, so ~5-7lbs?

find something in your room that weights about 5lb and hold it with your arms outstretched, unless you train specifically for it, your not going to last 10 minutes.

>>135588235
>100 pounds
Stop repeating that.

>>135588235
>One thing is carrying and lifting 100 pounds in your hands and arms. Another is carrying 100 pounds through your whole body.

Nigga, plate armor wasn't so heavy.

>>135588274
unless your the mongols, that vast majority of your armor didn't have a horse for every solider. infantry had to carry all their combat equipment and possibly camping equipment along with food and water depending on the army's logistics.

/tg/ please go.

But they do wear armor in Garo.

>>135588396
Yeah sorry. Plate armor was generally within 33-55 pounds. I got confused because I use metric and not imperial, my bad.

>>135588235
>100 pounds in your hands and arms
m8, the average european longsword weighs like 2 pounds

>>135588555
Just to add, only jousting armor ever got so heavy as 100lbs as the only limiting factor was the horse's strength.

>>135588555
55lb is 25kg
Fuck off with the excuses.

>>135588681
I just assumed he was right and went with it lol

>>135588711
Nigger, the metric system has pounds too. Don''t you even know that?

>>135588711
>lol
Fuck off.

>>135588645
Long swords were more like 3 pounds, weren't they?

>>135588756
God, I corrected myself. Will you forgive my slight already?

>>135588756
You are officially a retard.

>>135578068
because kids likes edgy shit.

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I´m a sucker for armors

>>135589056
Nice scrotal armor.

>>135589056
What's with the breathing mouth at the front? Does it need to harness air so that the hair flutters right?

What about loli armor? As in, an armor made out of lolis.

>>135589128
There always are some sick fucks into guro, that would make it useless.

>>135589128
Shrink yourself and hide in your loli's mouth.
Depending on your loli, you can also try to hide in her budding cleavage.

>>135589128
>What about loli armor?

Black Bullet?

>>135579236
rapiers are really fucking fast and agile. they became a thing after the early guns made plate armour less viable. also note that the rapiers used back then were a lot thicker than the bendy sticks used in sports these days

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>>135589494
The true gun-sword.

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>>135585820
Where did I see this spear design before?

Also it looks fucking retarded.

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>>135589494
>rapiers are really fucking fast and agile.
Part of this is a bit of a myth. First of all, pretty much all swords were "fast" and "agile" - or rather - weapons in general are fast and agile, since the proportionality of velocity matters more than weight when it comes to impact and given the fact that you also need to defend yourself and need to hit a moving target you better want your weapon to be easy to wield. Rapiers are no difference, so in that regard they are fast and agile.

However, actual rapiers, and this does not include modern fencing weapons or even weapons which resemble them such as small swords, spadroons, colichemardes and whatelse, were not particularly light or small weapons. They were exceedingly long and quite heavy for one-handed weapons, being actually close in weight to late medieval longswords.

The consequence was that rapiers weren't all that great for defence, due to their relatively cumbersome length and weight in comparison with the also quite popular broadswords of the day for example, such as Schiavonas or Claymores (the basket hilted broadsword types). That is why rapiers were commonly used in addition to another weapon for defence, such as a parrying dagger, a buckler, or at least a cloak. In rare instances also a short-sword (see pic).

The type of parade-riposte type fencing which you see nowadays in sports fencing does not derive from rapiers, but from the baroque small-sword type weapons.

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>>135589884
For comparison, here are some weights of rapiers. Compare it with the weight of late medieval war swords (which were usually primarily two-handed weapons).

>>135589884
Beside, e=mc^2, you really do want to trade 1 kg for 1 m/s extra speed whenever you can.

>>135589775
It is literally divine. It's not so much a lance as it is a relic.

>>135590036
>you really do want to trade 1 kg for 1 m/s extra speed whenever you can.
I think you mean reach, the speed of a swing or thrust isn't going to vary much from sword to sword.

>>135590036
At least use E=1/2mv^2

>>135589494
Were rapiers used in real battlefield combat? I was always under the impression that they were limited to duels and shit.

>>135590181
Full plate went away because of guns.
At that point, guns slowly became the main weapons. Rapiers (and other fencing weapons) were side arms.

>>135590157
If you're designing a sword from scratch (i.e. assuming swords have never existed before), you'll find out through experimentation that heavy and slow swords have shit destructive power for all but downswings, and light weapons are much more dangerous.

>>135589125
That hair needs no less than that.

>>135589971
I didn't know there were swords that weighed over 10 pounds.

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>>135590447
These were in most cases bearing swords used in processions. Bishops often had ceremonial guards carrying two-handed swords. Most of these flamberg types, with all too elaborate guards and blades were meant for that purpose. These were not actual weapons meant for combat. Most two-handed swords meant for combat are lighter than that.

>>135579236
the main thing about rapiers is the stance, one handed with shoulder facing the opponent.
as opposed to a two handed sword there's more distance between the tip of your weapon and your body and the side of your body is a much smaller target making it easier to parry. you're also in a better position to trust and lunge with one foot in front of the other.

https://youtu.be/6r7VWIQCHvM?t=95

>>135590617
Why would the armory only have ceremonial swords and no two handed swords that are actually battle-worthy?

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>>135590181
It depends on what you consider a "rapier".

Swords began to resemble what people have in mind when they hear "rapier" during the late middle ages by developing more complex hilts. During the 16th century you had something that is commonly called "side-sword" in use, which was essentially a regular one-handed arming sword type with a somewhat complex hilt that already resembled a rapier to some extent (see pic).

From these weapons rapiers developed, becoming narrower and more thrust-oriented which were also found on the battlefields of the 17th century. Certainly often in a bit more robust fashion than their civilian equivalents, but still.

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>>135590700
What are you talking about? Plenty of weapons are lighter than that on that list. However, bearing swords are obviously much more likely to survive than actual combat weapons which is why it wouldn't be surprising of a disproportionate number of them being found in collections.

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WHAT WAS THAT?

NOT HISTORICALLY ACCURATE YOU SAY?

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THEY TOTALLY HAD FULL PLATE ARMOR BACK IN ARTHURIAN TIMES RIGHT?

>>135590925
>>135590964

Talk about reading comprehension.

>>135587565
On hiatus.

>>135591005
The point is that neither of those characters should be wearing plate armor, showing that even if a Japanese series did use them, more often than not they'd actually be wrong. Japan can't into historical accuracy.

>>135591088
At least it's not belt and zipper trench coat.

>>135590925
>>135590964
Why did they fuck up everyone else armor then? Iskandar/alexander army had better armor that this 2 anyways

>>135578468
medieval euros had some weird dicks

>>135591210

They used to impale their victims with their dicks

>>135591250
And they liked it.

>>135590638
That double attack to the neck was amazing.

>>135591210
Its to protect the world from the D, not to protect the D from the world

>>135591192
There are a number of reasons for this.

1) Gilgamesh originally had something that was a little more Mesopotamian in mind, but then he started playing a certain video game and decided that Gil NEEDED to be in full-plate golden armor. The in-universe explanation is that Gilgamesh possesses the prototypes of all human-made creations, even shit made after his time, and he really likes that golden armor.
2) This one's a little more broad. Whenever you think of "medieval era knight", chances are the image that most people have will be full plate armor. It doesn't help that plate armor is inherently cooler-looking than chainmail.
3) Roman/Greek soldiers have this really iconic look that's in-grained into the public consciousness so it's way easier to be historically accurate with them than medieval knights. Whenever you think of "Roman soldier", that's probably what you'll immediately think of, plus a helmet with a brush on it.

>>135591291
Those sluts.

>>135578068

Because unlike real life, in fiction DEX builds are viable and very popular, and armor is of little use to the DEX build.

>>135591382
Because in fiction dex and str are two independent stats and armor is way more restrictive than in reality.

>>135589128

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_Crusade

Another thing about fantasy I really dislike is how they make all ranged combat essentially useless.
If it's not close and personal, nobody important is going to die.
In movies people just don't get hit by arrows/bullets or they're able to deflect them with ease. In games bows do ridiculously little damage.
Even energy blasts are usually inferior to fists in action anime (although that does make sense because fists are smaller than most energy blasts).

>>135591781
Because ending a fight by shooting from a range is less visually interesting than a drawn out melee.

>>135591860
Tell that to Duke Togo.

>>135591781
Well, it's rule of drama. A good story > realism. When someone gets capped 500 ft away unless it's handled in a certain way it's kinda lame.

>>135591860
And when it comes to games, a one-hit kill from outside your sight is way too OP compared to a blockable, dodgeable melee hit.

>>135591318
also you'll notice the only hit's the longsword can get is by letting go with one hand. reach is king in armed combat
plate armor kind of throws a wrench into the sport, but how to deal with that is another story.

>>135591931
RPGs shouldn't be balanced.
If bows and crossbows are powerful then you should go with them, not change the system until your favorite weapon rules everything.

>>135592033
I would watch ironloli.

>>135592017
If they weren't balanced, then there would be no reason to use any weapon except bow and arrow.

>>135592099
or actual tactics, but lets face it anime cant into tactics.

>>135592134
What tactics? You don't have a clue what you're saying do you?

It's such a waste one of the cool things about generic fantasy settings is the fact that they got armors. But no lets have them use some fucking cardigan.

>>135591088
Did you even read the thread? And by that I mean the second post?

>>135592099
>then there would be no reason to use any weapon except bow and arrow.
Of course there would. You can't use bows efficiently in close quarters. You can't have your bow at the ready as quickly as a sword. And as always, magic trumps the mundane.

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He just wanted to continue penetrating objects.

>>135592254
>video games

>>135592377
Your point?

Nobody ever shows anti-magic armor. I bet some really cool designs could come out of the idea that some knight doesn't want a fireball to fuck him up.

>>135592017
Leaving a specific tool blatantly overpowered is pretty poor form. Anyone with a brain would use only that tool and not bother wasting resources on anything else, bar some complementary tools. As a result, the amount of possible strategies shrinks to an amount that only includes the OP tools and possibly the few other complementary tools.

Having less possible strategies due to arbitrary design choices is not fun.

>>135592423
His point is that if bows one shot everything there isn't a point in using other weapons, I think that was pretty clear.

>>135592543
No, that was his previous point. How does ">video games" make my response to that invalid?

>>135592597
Because in video games balance > realism. If there is one weapon blatantly more powerful than anything else then obviously people are only going to use it.

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>>135591339
>caling it a brush
No, I think of a Lorica Segmentata for a roman soldier. Iskandar clearly wears musculata, which is arguably less protective still.

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>probably the most famous archer in anime
>fires swords rather than arrows

>>135592511
But bows would still be inferior to magic in most systems.
Who cares if you can one-shot an unarmored guy from 200 meters? His friend is a wizard and he's going to fry you and your friends alive.
All good RPGs are imbalanced. Balance is generally only introduced to make it more PvP capable, which isn't about roleplaying anyway, it's just about building efficient fighters and doing battle with them.

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>>135578068
>plate mail,chain mail
>leather "armor"

>>135592597
Because videogames are not real life and there is a limit to the amount of details that can be incorporated. Even at point blank, a bowman in a videogame can take aim and shoot despite the bow and arrow clipping with the enemy's sword after said sword is finished clipping through their face, for example.

>>135592642
But that is evidently wrong. There are non-balanced RPGs and people use non-optimized builds.

>>135592699
>But bows would still be inferior to magic in most systems.
Yeah, but we're talking about weapons
>All good RPGs are imbalanced.
Stop playing garbage games, shitter.

>>135592723
It's trivial to apply some randomness (or penalty) to the targeting if the character in question is currently engaged in melee. You can even add a chance that the arrow is completely lost and doesn't go anywhere at all.

>>135592762
>Yeah, but we're talking about weapons
I'm making a point. Magic is more powerful than weapons, and people still elect to use weapons. That means you're wrong.

>>135592742
Well, yeah. Some people will stick to optimized builds. Some people will go for the inferior option. Take fighting games for example. There are tons of people who main anything besides the best character in the game. Maybe they think it looks cool or because it suits their playstyle. I do it too. Doesn't change the fact that it is imbalanced and people using unoptimized builds or using weaker characters would wish that they could stand on more even ground.

>>135592852
>Magic is more powerful than weapons, and people still elect to use weapons.
Because the game is balanced such that magic is not, in fact, better than weapons in most games. In particular, mage gets oneshot by melee while melee can take on a dozen spells before keeling over.

>>135592888
>Doesn't change the fact that it is imbalanced and people using unoptimized builds or using weaker characters would wish that they could stand on more even ground.
But that's part of the experience. He who picks a (non-magical) scholar should have fun playing the vulnerable guy and shouldn't expect the game to give him free skills like a crowd disabler just so he can pull his weight in a fight that a scholar realistically wouldn't be prepared for.

>>135592207
Thinkgs such as using the land to your advantage, setting traps, or cavalry being used correctly. Anime follows the logic that people just run at each other, tactics are worthless, ranged weapons are only marginally better than a sword. Its all bullshit.

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>>135592852
What about magic weapons?

>>135578508
Shit, knigga, look at those arms. Dude probably pimpslapped his opponents into submission.

Didn't Vikings use leather armor extensively?

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>>135592493
it's magic, they don't have to design shit.

>>135592905
>In particular, mage gets oneshot by melee while melee can take on a dozen spells before keeling over.
In Baldur's Gate 2, the best tanks are mages. They are literally invulnerable to everything the game throws at them.
Fighters are stronger than lazy wizards who don't prepare properly. But other than that, they're just fodder.

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Halfsword is fun.

>>135593013
Depends on the magic and the system, obviously.

>>135592699
I have to agree with you that bows are often made frustratingly weak in a good amount of games. Still, my point stands. Having overpowered weaponry which also hardcounters an entire set of weaponry and thus makes it obsolete, is wasteful. Not only is the obsolete weaponry a waste of time to invest in ingame, but also a waste of time for the developer to add in, as noone will use it.

I almost forgot this is /a/. Time to stop.

>>135593056
>not wearing gloves

IMMERSION RUINED

>>135593122
>Having overpowered weaponry which also hardcounters an entire set of weaponry and thus makes it obsolete,
And yet daggers and swords coexist happily in most RPGs.

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>>135593056
What the fuck kind of demonstration was that?

>>135593125
You wouldn't use gloves for superior control over the blade.

Your ignorance and expectation has ruined it for you.

>>135593188
But you'd cut your hands.

>>135593056
I never understood how half-swording was used to stab an armored opponent. Like I get that you're supposed to aim for the gaps but that seems extremely difficult.

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>>135593176
Halfsword combat.

>>135593238
It's 1D3 points of damage per round. A proper fighter has 9+ hit dice worth of HP. You should be able to manage.

>>135592712
>calling bullshit on leather armor
Try "Cuirass". If you fail try "Corrazina".

>>135593238
>But you'd cut your hands.
Only if you grip the edge rather than flat of the blade. Take a ruler and pick it up then go and hit something with it. Do you hold it by the edge or palm the flat part?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwuQPfvSSlo

>>135593176
Guy got outright stunned by the hilt-blow.
But anyway it's worth nothing because
>blunt blade
>unarmored hand traveling along the blade constantly

>>135593254
Your sword fighting skills actually get better when you practice. Who'da thought.

>>135593167
Because games are often balanced in a way to accomodate such weaponry. Like giving a sword to a Hercules-tier warrior or giving a dagger to a slippery cunt assassin. Both can potentially match each other and both ignore common sense, but that's where the being a video game comes in.

>>135593254
>I never understood how half-swording was used to stab an armored opponent. Like I get that you're supposed to aim for the gaps but that seems extremely difficult.
It's about control and torque.

>>135593238
>this ignorance

Amusing.

>>135593254
It would be a shitty kind of armor if it didn't make it difficult now wouldn't it? Anyways it's much better to use the sword as a lever or crowbar and finish the job with a dagger after taking your oponent to the ground and immobilizing them.

>>135593347
But if you try to strike something with it with any amount of force, the blade will shift in your hands and cut into your fingers.

>>135593265
I know what halfswording is, but that shit just looked retarded. Also what's the point in having one guy in full plate and one guy with only a gambeson.

>>135593283
Do you even realize how thick the leather would have to be to provide any significant protection? You wouldn't just wear a leather jacket without more padding underneath.

>>135593371
Halfswording is mostly used to get into the gaps of the armor, so why weren't both buys in full plate? Just looks stupid.

I'm sick of all this "Masterwork Bastard Sword" bullshit that's going on in the d20 system right now. Katanas deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.

I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine katana in Japan for 2,400,000 Yen (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my katana.

Japanese smiths spend years working on a single katana and fold it up to a million times to produce the finest blades known to mankind.

Katanas are thrice as sharp as European swords and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a longsword can cut through, a katana can cut through better. I'm pretty sure a katana could easily bisect a knight wearing full plate with a simple vertical slash.

Ever wonder why medieval Europe never bothered conquering Japan? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined Samurai and their katanas of destruction. Even in World War II, American soldiers targeted the men with the katanas first because their killing power was feared and respected.

So what am I saying? Katanas are simply the best sword that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the d20 system. Here is the stat block I propose for Katanas:

(One-Handed Exotic Weapon)
1d12 Damage
19-20 x4 Crit
+2 to hit and damage
Counts as Masterwork

(Two-Handed Exotic Weapon)
2d10 Damage
17-20 x4 Crit
+5 to hit and damage
Counts as Masterwork

Now that seems a lot more representative of the cutting power of Katanas in real life, don't you think?

tl;dr = Katanas need to do more damage in d20, see my new stat block.

>>135593489
See:
>>135593347

>>135593380
Both weapons have their niches.
Some games give extra backstabbing bonuses to daggers. You could also disallow larger weapons in certain towns for shady characters.
Similarly, as I said above, you could make it possible to get the sword into your hand much faster than the bow. Since you can't keep it under tension forever, getting the bow combat ready would realistically require some 30 seconds in which you'd already be killed if you did it in the middle of an ambush.
There's lots of ways to give swords an edge over bows in certain situations without turning ranged combat into a joke.

>>135593254
you mean opposed to just stabbing with both hands on the handle?
imagine trying to play pool with hand at the end of the cue.

>>135593604
>imagine trying to play pool with hand at the end of the cue.
There's other ways to do it? Tell me your secrets.

>>135593558
>Halfswording is mostly used to get into the gaps of the armor, so why weren't both buys in full plate? Just looks stupid.

To showcase what an unarmored person armed with a sword should do against an armored knight. Still the sword is travelling too much on his unarmored hand and porbably would have cut. The secret is having the sword not slide, hence not slice.

>>135593604
Nah, I understand why stabbing with both hands on the handle wouldn't work, it just looks insanely difficult when the opponent is moving around all the time.
Practice makes perfect I guess.

>>135593696
Anon means, the guy in full plate shouldn't have been half-swording. he should have held the sword with both hands at the grip to easily win the fight with superior reach.

>>135593576
Such balance depends on the type of game and its mechanics. If it's a slow-paced real-time game or a turn-based RPG, by all means. I only argued about blatantly uncounterable weaponry that completely crushes other types of weaponry.

>>135592986
Just like vidya.

>>135593835
I wouldn't suggest such a thing to be introduced into the modern MMO. (although I have to say I detest modern MMOs from what little I know of them)

>>135593741
I see. Still you'd want the superior control. If you're unarmored against a guy in full plate you are already automatically boned, half-swording then is trying to improve your very poor chances.

>>135593696
Right, it's also a plus to wear gloves when halfswording just in case. The guy in plate looked either very unskilled, or just letting the guy in red show off for the sake of whatever show that clip is from anyway. He would have no reason to be halfswording himself when fighting a person not wearing full plate.

>>135593564
>d20
huh?

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>>135578771
>that filename

>>135593883
MMOs are games that ignore common sense the most. Applying any kind of intricate, thought-out balance is a pointless endeavour. MMOs are also the shittiest genre out there.

Don't play MMOs.

>>135593696
>Still the sword is travelling too much on his unarmored hand and porbably would have cut.

It will only cut if you are applying force on the edge while changing grip. A slight flex in your hand and you pull back the hand from the edge and you can slide the blade safely to a new grip.

>>135593988
I actually want to play TOR, but in singleplayer. I'd have bought it if the MP thing was just optional.

>>135593898
Nvm I'm actually retarded. The guy in full plate should really be holding his sword properly. But then he wouldn't be showcasing halfswording now would he?

>>135592694
At least he has a bow, the other archer doesn't even have that

>>135593690
"and no supporting hand" would've been the logical implication of that sentence you fucking halfwit

>>135594116
Which was why I asked why they weren't just both wearing plate. Then they could both be halfswording while having it make sense.

>>135594092
If you love Star Wars, TOR isn't that bad an option. It's free and I believe that you can get to max level without doing any of the shitty sidequests.

Try Mount and Blade if you haven't yet, you may find it right up your alley.

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>>135594164
Perhaps they couldn't afford a second suit of plate. Did you think of that, anon?

>>135594256
I want to, I just hate the idea of meeting anybody else in the game. People have told me to just ignore them, but I want the game just for myself.

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>>135592375
It's a shame the sword is shit and we will never get his armor

>>135594273
Nice thumbnail

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>>135594273
That's not really my problem now is it? If their budget is that low I feel sorry for them, frankly.

>>135594302
Jesus Christ, you fucking pussy.

It's not like they'll bother you at all. MMO players are like robots these days.

If you can't deal with it at all then play KOTOR.

>>135594345
I couldn't afford any more pixels

>>135593558
>>135593371
>>135593176
even if it was done right you have the most dumbass arma guy in the world john clements pushing his own agenda and warping everything.

>>135593702
full plate vs full plate is a lot of bashing with the pommel and parrying, with stabbing as a followup. and these gaps in the armor are at the joints, so armpits, elbows, knees, etc. they're not tiny targets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S_Q3CGqZmg

>>135592762
All good RPGs are imbalanced that's a fact.
Using the worst weapon out there and still winning the game is what makes it fun.

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>>135594394
I'm sorry.
Please take this loli as an apology.

>>135594479
Aaah that makes sense, thanks.

>>135592852
>Magic is more powerful than weapons
Fact. In sheer strength, a weapon pales in comparison magic's strength. But magic has a casting time and takes focus. It has openings.

In essence, its like gun vs sword. Sure a gun is more powerful than a sword, but if the enemy has bullet proof armor, hides behind cover, engages during a reload, or is in an area where using a gun is difficult (CQC), the sword would be the better option. The same applies for sword vs magic.

>>135593056
>0:35
Do you honestly think he is in any position to exert enough power to pierce the chainmail he has underneath? He is only using one hand and is at an awkward angle to exert force. By the time he brings his other hand up or shifts his bodyweight, the armor clad warrior could easily counter and dispose of the "squishy" warrior.

Why don't people use judo/wrestling techniques against full plate ?

Since you can't actually hit him with a sword all you need to do is make him fall then take his sword or some shit.