The constant pseudo-intellectual ramblings is really getting on my nerves....
Ooohh, she's so special. getting into college at 11 becoming an engineer after a year. She questions the meaning of life and death, ''her intellectual'' brain makes her feel so isolated. Are you kidding me with this shit? i cant recall the last time i've seen such a pretentious show
There's anime and there's this piece of shit. This is a contemporary setting with the seinen genre plastered all over it. But this. She thinks life is a burden? well fucking newsflash bitch, everyone feels the same
I was excited for this anime, Asano Inoue did the character design, animation looked good. The opening is fantastic. But wow it disappointed me really fucking quick
Came her to say this. Writers feel like they have the right, no, obligation to imbue their worldly knowledge gained from arguing on online message boards and polished in Philosophy 101 unto the unsuspecting audience.
I'm still watching this because I want to see if this is a fair detective show like Poirot, or if they're gonna pull shit out of their ass because they couldn't come up with something clever.
God, how I hate secret passages...
Forgot these existed, thank fuck for subject filters. I remeber when they used to be a simple 3x3 made on some shitty website. Now it's a thread for hipsters to show off their Photoshop skills and shit taste.
> animation looked good
I don't mind pretentious blather, but there is one thing that bugs me. They said that that humans are born with multiple personalities that then come together and thus that Shiki chick is "pure". I'm by no means an expert in psychiatry, but should it not work in a completely opposite way?
It's hilarious how many people are too stupid to watch shit and think about it. The stuff said in the story is presenting to viewer a certain kind of opinion, a point of view. You as a viewer are supposed to think about the said view and analyse it and bring it in clash with your own view. Accept it as something different.
Saying that it's "stupid" only proves that you yourself are too narrow-minded to think about the opinion which is different from yours. Not saying that this particular anime/book offers enlightening opinions on the matter of human individualism and intellect but simply saying "it's stupid" is just lazy and makes you seems like an ultimate pleb. Shouldn't you try better, OP?
This. I get it that she is intellectual mature beyond her age, but what makes them all think that she was also emotionally mature as well? She was still a kid playing with toys and constructing
robots instead of puzzles, just a depressed and with existential crisis one. Old dude complaining about schizophrenic little girl raping him is not helping either.
>Saying that it's "stupid" only proves that you yourself are too narrow-minded to think about the opinion which is different from yours.
Literally never wrote stupid in any of my posts. but im going to now. you're fucking stupid
So I gather this anime is full of teenage level "pretentious" so-called "philosophy"?
I was thinking of picking this up but as much as I enjoy some mature, well informed philosophical discussions from time to time, I can't handle shit like this.
>narrow-minded to think about the opinion which is different from yours.
How fucking old are you? its not that the opinion is different. its the anime is pretentious as fuck, 90% of the episode was gibberish smart-pretend talk. it wasn't slightly entertaining.
its not even that fucking deep. it's superficial and just try really hard to represent the characters as smart which comes of as pretentious. i wouldnt mind if being pretentious was their characters' trait, but its not. it t
There is no philosophy.
There is author's try to make something poetical and intellectual. It's failed attempt not because it is teenage level or tryhard, it fail because the "clever things" characters saying are uncalled for and has no reason to be said. They don't describe characters or plot. Math was brought in Owarimonogatari as lead up to the story and describing characters trait. Here we got told that "Seven is a lonely number" for no reason. MC thinking about rebutting himself every morning for no reason. Lolli scientist is so mature and lonely for no reason other than being clever.
>Here we got told that "Seven is a lonely number" for no reason.
There's plenty of reasons, Magata kinda speaks in riddles. It's her way of saying she feels lonely/isolated. After bringing up 7 she says B and D are the same, foreshadowing F being 15 in hex, which is at the heart of the mystery.
That's advancing the story and describing character traits like you said, it's not even using complicated math to do it just prime numbers and base-16.
>Discussing this 10th grade psychology masturbation session instead of the best detective series of the year.
Step it up.
But that's just stumbling between coincidences while teasing /ss/.
There have been better detective shows than either this year.
Bones: the anime isn't that great, it has nice visuals and a beautiful christmas cake but it isn't really doing anything special for a detective show, it's quickly falling into the detective conan problem of running into bones related problems everytime the main characters take a step.
The funny part is that the "pretentiousness" you're all so obsessed with isn't even a main focus on the show. Whenever a show attempts to show more intellectual depth than the average SOL you autists get triggered and act like a hipster just fucked your waifu.
Sometimes the author wants characters to say things that normal people wouldn't and act in ways that would be weird in real life. It's fucking fiction.
Is there an umbrella that can keep away death?
Why do every one of these new pseudo-intellectual shows have to have the worst goddamn Engrish ever?
>The constant pseudo-intellectual ramblings
When its constant it automatically becomes the main part.
> i cant recall the last time i've seen such a pretentious show
Pretty much the only show that ticked me off
>more intellectual depth
LMFAO!! It's fucking shallow. how is being in an existential crisis and seeing life as a burden an intellectual depth, it's normal phase for most teenagers
>Half the episode is a slow ass conversation in broken english
The pretenious shit is awful but the pacing is even worse.
I'm not sure how you expect anyone to take you seriously like that
Also, the existential crisis isn't important at all. It's just mentioned in the flashback and that's it.
This isn't anime and Japan, but only one novel of many works by Mori Hiroshi, you retard.
So she probably uploaded her mind to some machine or something like that?
We're 7 episodes in and literally nothing happened.
However we ARE 7 episodes in and nothing happens.
It's not hard to understand. If you type like a retard then people are going to safely assume you're a retard and then call you a retard. If you want to get your points across then just follow proper etiquette and don't be a fag.
None present. I wouldn't say it's all that pretentious though - the "philosophy" is just a device to make the characters look smart. And it's a shitty one, and just shows the author has no idea how actual intelligent people act.
This. There was no rhythm, and they didn't know which words to emphasize. It was like someone playing all the correct piano notes with no sense of timing.
Plenty of stuff happened, they closed room murder mystery has been set up, the detective duo has started investigating for real and we've constantly been learning more and more about Sohei, Moe and Shiki every episode.
>and just shows the author has no idea how actual intelligent people act
well, see, if you had read my post all the way through you would have seen this
>Sometimes the author wants characters to say things that normal people wouldn't and act in ways that would be weird in real life. It's fucking fiction.
Although I guess you and your intellectual friends must be experts in how intelligent people act, right
>Welcome to any media ever
I don't think so.
This. I asked the same questions at a very young age myself (no, not as a teenager but before that), but I wasn't some sort of special genius wunderkind.
Calling something stupid means you are narrow-minded. Wow.
Some people will just defend anything no matter how bad it is and give excuses for the author.
>It's fucking fiction.
So the writer has no obligation to make the characters act remotely human? Sorry to have some standards.
And I don't have to be an expert to realise that an intelligent adult doesn't try to look smart by spouting edgy teenager nonsense.
>how actual intelligent people act.
But is that really relevant in fiction? If Hiroshi Mori wanted to tell the story of an actual professor working in an architecture department in Nagoya he would have written an autobiography.
Shiki Magata is one of the most important person in Mori's world. She often appears in other stories.
Some people will just bash everything about a show no matter how many redeeming qualities it might have. Nice touch on your post to add a little blogshit, as if I we didn't already know what kind of person we were dealing with here
You ever watched a movie before? Or a TV show? Ever read a book? 99% of the time, the dialogue of those mediums is nothing like real life. Why should it be? Real life talk is boring.
>But is that really relevant in fiction?
Yes. Poorly written characters don't tend to be very engaging. This way they're just pieces in a totally arbitrary puzzle which I'm only enjoying for its absurdity.
Oh, so I'm not the only one thinking about that. I guessed that the kid came out under Shiki's dress and got advantage of the darkness to go away, but the elevator moving at that same time makes me think that I'm missing something here.
>getting into college at 11 becoming an engineer after a year
How I hate that kind of stuff. Like a character can't be smart without casually winning the nobel prize in every discipline.
It's kind of a major plot point that she isn't just smart. She's so smart that she's actually a celebrity and she has her own compound and staff at her beck and call for research.
How about the whole situation being incredibly contrived for the specific purpose of the locked room mystery? Or the poorly written characters who are not only unrealistic but boring?
Maybe the real problem is that you're just too sensitive. It's just a character quirk that he idly philosophizes occasionally. It fits his nature.
The only other person who does anything like what you're describing is Shiki, and she's just a crazy weirdo.
You're taking habits of certain characters and using them to form an opinion of the entire show for some reason.
>the whole situation being incredibly contrived for the specific purpose of the locked room mystery?
Is it that much more contrived compared to your average locked room mystery?
>characters who are not only unrealistic but boring?
How exactly are they boring?
>the plot of a mystery is contrived
Surprise surprise. You're still watching it, right? That means it works
>poorly written characters who are not only unrealistic but boring
It's a matter of opinion. You don't like the characters because they don't talk like "real intelligent people" and therefore you see them as nothing but boring and unlikeable
>How exactly are they boring?
How aren't they? Moe is alright, but Soumei is a parody of an edgy teen used as a serious adult. And Shiki is mysterious and acts pretty much completely arbitrary. Everyone else is practically a non-entity.
And yeah, it's more contrived than most mysteries, because even the very existence of the facility makes no sense, never mind the fact that they keep Shiki there. And that's before you even get to the murder.
I can stand Shiki's quirk. She's crazy and what she says makes sense in her own way. Sometimes, she even says something interesting (like what she told her sister when she hurt herself). It was weird and most people would be taken aback by it, but it made sense and it was beautiful in its simplicity. And it's probably also a core element of the mystery (she doesn't care about her body, or anyone else's, as long as the mind is intact).
But Souhei is one of the main characters, is doing it 80% of the time he's on the screen, and instead of being met with skepticism or even incomprehension by the other characters, he's seen as someone really smart and deep by all. But the things he says lack purpose, are devoid of meaning, and sometimes are even so stupid that I just want him to shut up. Like for example, that shit about why Shiki was the purest human being. Even if all that shit he spouted made any sense (he was talking about something similar to the concept of personas, and even adults have them), it would be stupid to say Shiki is more "human" for that. Following what he said, it'd be in human nature to get rid of your personalities as you grow up. It's like saying that someone that doesn't grow in height since he's 10 is more human that you or me. It would just mean that they have more childish aspects. In other words, utter nonsense. But instead of thinking he's being stupid, Moe gets mad but unable is to refute him.
>Soumei is a parody of an edgy teen used as a serious adult.
He's not portrayed as a serious adult in the show, he can't use eyedrops correctly, he wears ridiculous shirts and flip-flops, he chain smokes to a ridiculous level and his adoration of Magata even though he's never met her clearly comes across as blatant fanboyism.
Should've animated Dedede instead, Asano is wasted on this bullshit.
>he's seen as someone really smart and deep by all
Not really. They just kind of tolerate him. Maybe if the show was fawning over him and acting like he was some kind of genius MC then I would understand where you were coming from, but you even said yourself that Moe gets frustrated when he does it, and that's one of the more important character interactions in the show. Like I said, it's just idle philosophizing.
The child didn't kill her, the child killed herself instead of killing her like she was supposed to. That's why I think either Moe or Saikawa said that Magata's body looks a lot younger than 29, because it's actually her daughter, who just really looks like her. Magata is pretending to be her sister. She snuck out when everyone was distracted by the body via the elevator, got in the helicopter, stabbed her Uncle in the back (that's why he was acting so odd in the helicopter when they first went to the roof, he was trying not to show that he was literally dying) then she pretended to have just arrived when the others came to the roof.
Source: the live action drama
She was decleared not of sound mind and therefore not guilty. So instead of being confined to a mental institution and being treated, they just let her uncle lock her in the basement.
That's not the feeling I get. People value his opinion, enjoy having conversations with him, and regard him highly enough to let him conduct an investigation about Shiki's dead (let's face it, not even a multi billion dollars' deal would make you allow someone to tangle with a crime scene. If word got out, you'd be in deep shit, and they could even close the lab). And sure, Moe gets mad at him... but not because he's philosophizing, but because of his blind admiration towards Shiki. It looks more like she's jealous of Shiki than frustrated by his attitude.
He's a college professor who's very accomplished in his field. That accounts for most of what you're talking about.
The fact that they allow the "investigation" to happen reflects the deal that they made, like you said. For the record, the lab is obviously going to close anyway, because Shiki is dead; they just don't want to lose this huge deal they've been working on for years before it shuts down, and they have no reason to suspect either of them, so they let it go.
Besides that, Moe seems to enjoy talking to him, but that's just because she likes him.
It's not like he's some average Joe who's hypnotizing a bunch of people with his astounding intelligence. He's a figure well known for his work.
I hate anything that tries to think for you. Pretentious garbage like this, NGE, 1984, Fahrenheit 451, all of it.
Just tell me a nice story and then just give me an idea to think about like that one manga with the turtle named Plato.
You have no obligation to answer any questions.
You know that spoilers even behind spoiler tags are bad for those kinds of threads because they scare away people who don't want to be spoiled and prevent any meaningful discussion or speculation about the mystery.
If you want to shit up the threads just admit it. I can't stop you. But don't pretend you're doing anyone a favor.
>You’re floating in a tank of extremely salty water. This isn’t some fancy hypno shit.
It just puts you in a relaxed state where you can more easily access your thoughts, kinda like lucid dreaming I guess.
It's not VR or hypnosis.
Dropped it after the first show ends. This didn't happend to me since NGNL and Musashi gundoh.
This is fedora: the show. I want to punch the autor in the face.
Welcome to 7 weeks ago. This show actually has the most pretentious try-hard dialog I've ever seen. It makes Psycho Pass look grounded and reasonable.
Anyone who didn't drop it on episode 1 is an actual fedora tipper.
>Anyone who didn't drop it on episode 1 is an actual fedora tipper.
I'm not enjoying this ride, but I have to see where the fuck are they going with all that bullshit.
Wouldn't be the first shit series I finished out of morbid curiosity.
I feel you, wanted to do the same because MC felt too cringe to me:
- Let's go on deito, sensei?
- Do you think out personalities reset every morning?
Watched 4 episodes and it didn't become better. So with this show you don't have to use the 3 episodes rule.
I would read the novel, but as a show it's too slow paced and awkward.
>Wouldn't be the first shit series I finished out of morbid curiosity.
Sorry, I should have included "anyone who didn't drop it because they're actually enjoying it".
It's quite possibly the worst writing I've ever seen in terms of dialog. There are shows where you can tell the author has no idea how smart people think, but this series comes right out of the gates and beats you over the head with a metal bat about it.
>even the very existence of the facility makes no sense
This so much. Everything else would be much more bearable if the setting didn't seem so much fabricated to make the plot possible.
>You know that spoilers even behind spoiler tags are bad for those kinds of threads because they scare away people who don't want to be spoiled
People who don't want to be spoiled deserve to be scared away. I can't understand how anyone could actually be opposed to knowledge. In any event, spoiler tags are a feature because it's expected people will share information about the future through them.
Don't start with that coy bullshit. Here's a work email for an event I went to (feel free to look up the institute). I work with smart people every single day, and I'm one them. How many Nobel Laureates have you ever talked to, because I guarantee I've talked to more. I think that's a pretty good bar to set for "how do smart people think?" and I can fucking promise you that it's nothing like the garbage spewed in this show. Pull you pretentious little head out of your ass. Let me restate it in case it isn't clear yet: The person doing the screenwriting for this show has no idea how smart people think or talk, and they are an idiot. If you think the dialog is even a little bit ok, then you are also an idiot.
I was just asking a question though, I was literally implying nothing at all with my post other than asking you (with curiosity) how do smart persons think, since I'm not one and no one close to me is one either.
I do not even watch this anime, I just happened to enter into this thread and I saw your post, so I saw an opportunity to solve the question I've asked myself since a long time ago(what goes through the minds of geniuses).
But I guess you're just an asshole, so just fuck off and never come back.
It's a mystery show, people watch it because it's fun to try and guess the mystery while they watch it. Not because they want someone to answer every question right away.
You're not teaching anyone anything or helping them in any way, there's no knowledge there.
Spoiler tags are just a courtesy, not an excuse to be able to post spoilers wherever you feel like.
The only pretentious visual novel is Umineko. There goes your argument.
Read House of Leaves. After that most pretentious trash wont even register with you anymore.
There's a chance that he's actually stupid and is angry that people are claiming he's stupid for liking a stupid show. I want to make sure he has no delusions as to how stupid he actually is. Can't have him thinking he's even a little bit smart.
This one's fresh, just for you.
>I was literally implying nothing at all with my post
>Attaching -sama to anon.
There's a clear cut implication there, and I don't appreciate the coyness. It's grating.
>But I guess you're just an asshole,
It's ok, I'm a smart asshole. You want the real answer to "how do smart people think?" Most of them are completely absorbed in their work and their work alone. A lot of them can hardly hold a conversation without coming across dull as bricks. Do you see how I can type in English and explain my thoughts to you clearly and concisely with some level of articulation? Most of them can't do that, and can only spit out endless technical details of their work. That's the reality for how most smart people think and talk. The idea that they talk in endless waves of middle school level philosophy without ever actually saying anything of substance is ridiculous, as is the notion that "smart people" actually have in depth knowledge regarding pretty much every facet of life (see: any Sherlock Holmes inspired character). The difference is that Sherlock Holmes type detectives can be entertaining and clever whereas this shit is just painful to watch.
>Sorry to break it to you, but he's the one baiting.
Sorry to break it to you, but you're the only real anon in this thread. All other posts have been carefully crafted by me, Magata Shiki, in an elaborate social experiment exploring the boundaries between reality and illusion.
>get utterly blown the fuck out by objective proof when asking for it in the first place
>just call that anon a big meanie pants
Well the intellectual gap between some posters here has become abundantly clear.
Most advanced placement (or honors or whatever they're called) classes for literature in middle school will start to touch on philosophy, especially when you get into literary analysis.
I dropped the show, but considering this is the second thread for it I've been in since the first week and both of them have had that MIT faggot spewing the same fucking lines about how he's smart and knows smart people and that's why he's qualified to say this show is pretentious, I'm going to go with the threads.
>The idea that they talk in endless waves of middle school level philosophy without ever actually saying anything of substance is ridiculous
I never thought this, I know geniuses are not edgy teens who think they're smart and above average.
And I never said I liked this show(I don't even watch it, as I said in the post I made before, I just happened to find you in this thread and I wanted to solve that question).
Anyway, thank you for answering my question(even if it was in a rude way).
What do you mean?, I just asked him a question(how smart people think?) then for some reason he got angry and insulted me for it, then I called him out for it and he finally answered my question.
Someone poked fun at him on /a/ and he pulled out paragraphs of ranting and "I'LL HAVE YOU KNOW I'VE TALKED TO NOBEL LAUREATES." This isn't even the first time he's tried it. He's a piece of shit.
>Nobody likes philosophy.
Go fuck yourself. I hate pretentious crap that spouts deep shit for the sake of it. A genuinely good show can include and expose philosophical ideas and still not be be terrible.
>(even if it was in a rude way).
You're the one who opened up with facetious comment, not me. You could have just asked without the wisecrack.
First thread I post in. I wouldn't spew shit without proof.
I do. I really, really do.
It's ok to be mad anon, not everyone can be smart.
What he meant I suppose is the creation of ego, the combination of id and superego. Ego is the mediator between the two, while id represents emotional/physiological needs and superego the 'moral compass.'
What edge mcsharp sensei said is that she never resolved her inner conflict - which apparently isn't necessary for people to live on - and thus developed multiple personalities.
It is said that often those who are consider genius borderline insanity, perhaps of the way their brains were physically constructed. Savant artists are one similar example.
One of the thing that's often brought up by the show is that humans become dumber as they age, because they have lost the ability to think like children, who are free of conflicts because they can think and do how they want due to the unresolved personalities.
Personally, I liked the banter and discussion. Is it pretentious? That's subjective. Do I like the brain juggle? Yes, I do.
I don't care who you were arguing with before. I posted proof of where I work, because I wouldn't make unsubstantiated claims like the last guy you argued with. Feel free to chase whatever shadows you want, but I'm telling you that the show's writer doesn't know how smart people think or talk on a fundamental level. If you think that pretentious garbage is clever, then you're an idiot.
No, pretentious (by definition) means that someone isn't as smart as they think they are. I'm objectively smart by all measures, and saying "I'm smart" isn't pretentious at all. You can call me an asshole all you want, but whining won't change the fact that I'm smart.
And? Anyone can make claims without backing them up. As soon as I made a claim I backed it up with proof. I'm not that guy, and we've strayed pretty far off the "This show is for idiots" point because you're fixated on dismissing what I say because you don't like my condescending tone.
>I'm objectively smart by all measures
Only stupid people think they're smart, vice versa, desu wa.
I know most of it is bait, but just how insecure do you have to be to get angry when people criticize this shitheap of dialogue, and actually try to convince others that it's smart? this is the worst fanbase of the season, so far. i bet you faggots haven't read more than 30 books, this year.
It depends largely on the teacher. If they have class they think can handle it, they'll happily delve into that stuff.
I don't have enough smug anime girls for this.
It's Saturday and I'm selfish. I'm going to spend my day watching anime and playing video games.
Okay senpai stop projecting so hard on people who don't even know or care about you opinion.
You trying so hard, though, on 4 chan is making me think you're objectively stupid, and that can't even be true.
In my experience, there's two kinds of "highly intelligent" people.
1. The smug ones that think their area of expertise makes them a different class of human. Often condescending and even openly rude to others, unless they're asskissing someone of authority. Will brow beat you with their experience, including long explanations you didn't ask for.
2. The ones who attempt to be humble. These people will act nice enough, but won't hesitate to correct you in conversations. They will go along with people less intelligent than them, but will make it clear through their demeanour that they think of you as a temporary source of entertainment.
Neither of these types go into philosophical rants because they don't think anyone else is worth the effort.
I don't even care about the show because it's shit, but just how insecure do you have to be to wave your MIT credentials on a board full with high school/college dropouts and social shut ins?
Why are you mad? This is great news. Now there's objective proof that anime is for smart people. This just means we can laugh at /lit/ for pretending that reading books makes you smart.
There's a third group.
The ones who are obsessed with self-depreciation.
They will sincerely never admit to being smart, they will be flustered and surprised when you tell them that you think that they're intelligent. These people are going to lecture you on anything you ask, and they'll always try telling you how simple everything is, to play down their own value, they'll always end their lecture with something like "but you know I don't really know a thing and I really hope what I just told you is true".
>a board full with high school/college dropouts
Speak for yourself desu there are plenty of well educated /a/nons. If you want a board full of high-school kids and drop outs check /v/.
>there are legitimate MIT level researchers complaining about the same Vietnamese picture books as the rest of us
My sides are gone from this day forward
>degree makes me smart
MIT students aren't all that. I've taken IQ tests and gotten 140s, and I'm able to outmath some of my friends from Ivy Leagues. I didn't get in because I was a lazy fuck in high school that did no homework and just got Cs and Bs by acing tests.
My college professors might be top of their field but that's not worth much if they're complete and utter spastics everywhere else and incapable of explaining the simplest things to a class full of 20 something year old monkeys.
>MIT students aren't all that. I've taken IQ tests and gotten 140s, and I'm able to outmath some of my friends from Ivy Leagues. I didn't get in because I was a lazy fuck in high school that did no homework and just got Cs and Bs by acing tests.
>Literally an unironically saying that you're a lazy genius and smarter than MIT and ivy league students
>"I totally could do those things, check out my internet IQ scores! I'm just lazy."
I think it is an alright show and one of the better shows this season. I don't think there is anything pseudo-intellectual about it. Seems to be just a murder mystery story with some pretty unrealistic characters in it. Nothing to get your panties twisted over for sure.
In the latest episode there was this horrible scene that was entirely in english and the voice actors did not even seem to try and act because they could not speak english. Other than that I've enjoyed it.
You're just self-centered if you think dense media is trying to think for you. It's just the author putting his/her ideas out there in a story that can help convey these messages.
>there are people with intelligence under at LEAST 2 standard deviations above than the mean in this thread, right now, arguing about what constitutes intelligence
SATs are shit that don't measure anything worthwhile. Effort and practical learning is more worthwhile than anything those test, and feeling superior because of that is bullshit.
It's not just my needs. It's the needs of everyone who wants to have an easier time avoiding spoilers and disucssing the show in here.
>Or they can just have ask
But asking in here is making the threads worse, watching the drama doesn't. Why not choose the method that has no negative side effect?
I never said anything about anything being mature. You're just putting words into my mouth because you don't like my opinion. Why don't you instead write something like "I don't agree with you. Have a nice day though". You're acting like a fucking asshole right now.
/lit/ is my favorite collection of idiots who pretends to be smarter than they are. This show is /lit/ incarnate. Have you ever listened to /lit/ trying to feign intellectual superiority because they read books? It's fucking hilarious.
If you think there are only 3 or 4 shows worth watching this season, and that this is one of them, then you undoubtedly are of the "I only watch mature anime for mature people like myself" variety.
Get your head out of your ass.
I think what this thread has proven to everyone is that pretentious people can't help but projecting their issues onto any show that might appear smart.
The show is fine, it's clearly more preoccupied in building a decent locked room mystery and developing its main characters than trying to teach any kind of philosophical lesson.
People who feel threatened by it and calling it pseudo-philosophical bullshit clearly have problems.
I think the mystery itself and the way the story is told is smart. There's a lot of little clues and foreshadowing, even misdirection.
It's not trying to be smart in a philosophical way though.
It's still in the process of going somewhere.
The ending is going to make it or break it. But considering the original novel won some prizes and had like 10 sequels, I think it can't be that bad.
>It's not trying to be smart in a philosophical way
>The smart/genius characters are literally characterized as being smart through meaningless "philosophical" ramblings
Did you watch the show?
The characters being characterized that way is not the same as the show trying to be smart in a philosophical way.
I don't feel like the show is trying to make me think about any specific philosophical topic, like Ergo Proxy would do for example.
>Pretension is subjective
If you are not a genius writing the things a genius would say and playing those things off as the sort of thing a genius mind might muse, you are denotatively being pretentious.
I couldn't get past the first episode. Aside from the fact that the the main girl was dressing in shorts and leggings (#1 indicator of an unfashionable, groupthinking basic-bitch) the show overflowed with the sort of painful pretension that turned Aldnoah.Zero from goofy and schlocky to unbearably intelligence insulting.
That's how I feel, those philosophical ramblings seems more to me like ways to characterize Sohei and Magata's personalities. That's what feels important, not the philosophical ideas themselves like "am I booting up my personality every morning?", but what it says about Sohei, that he's not really satisfied about his life and feels detached about his work as a professor.
I'm glad that you can compartmentalize and just decide that certain ideas aren't being pushed by the story, but when the main cast all presents their ideas in a certain way, then that's very much an underlying idea the author has that they're trying to get across. Having the characters perceived as smart say those things means the author is using the "smart" vector to get those ideas across, and as such those are the ideas the author wants us as the audience to think are profound. Unless the story ends with the revelation "These smart people are actually stupid and have been talking out of their assess the whole time." then the author was on board with that pretentious garbage the whole time.
This guy gets it.
>just decide that certain ideas aren't being pushed by the story
You seem to be fine just deciding what the author exactly means and what ideas he wants to get across. So it's not just me.
>just deciding what the author exactly means and what ideas he wants to get across.
No, when the author says "This character is smart" and then proceeds to have that character say things, it's because they want us to take those words seriously. That's extremely basic story telling, and I'm surprised that you can just write it off and ignore it. You can disagree with it, but to pretend it's not happening is just wrong.
>"This character is smart" and then proceeds to have that character say things, it's because they want us to take those words seriously.
Even that is up to interpretation, it's not like there's a narrator telling us "this guy is smart, listen to what he says", even if a character has a high level of education you can still question his opinions or morals.
I don't entirely agree. I think here the philosophy is used like technobabble. The point isn't so much "this idea is important" as "this is the sort of idea smart people have". It'd be much the same if they were talking about relativity or quantum physics.
>Even that is up to interpretation,
Ok, if you're going that far into headcanon territory then there's no point in discussing anything as subjective interpretation supersedes any actual literary analysis for you.
It's used as technobable in the sense that it's to show off how smart they are, that doesn't mean what they say can be discounted. At the end of the day, those words are still how the author thinks smart people think. And with regards to that main dark haired girl, they came out of the gates explaining her deep and unique thoughts on human life right from episode one. Those ideas are all pushed too hard to ignore.
>I'm smart guys!! I know that everything is nothing
>has never picked up a book
>has never read Ulysses
>has never read Gravity's Rainbow
>has never read Hegel
>has never read Dostoyevsky
>praises mark twain and poe
>watches "intelligent" anime for "intelligent" individuals like SEL or Evangelion
>We're smart because we read books that people tell us are smart, even if we only have surface level discussions of them that revolve around how smart we are for reading them!
>Posts objective proof that they're smart, as seen by the fact that they're world leading scientists at top research institutes
Guess which board is actually smart and which board is a bunch of pretentious children.
>my analysis is objective and yours is just headcanon because I say so.
Please stop if you have nothing more to say and lets just agree to disagree.
>they came out of the gates explaining her deep and unique thoughts on human life right from episode one. Those ideas are all pushed too hard to ignore.
They, meaning the characters, Saikawa and maybe the Uncle. Not the author. You don't have to ignore these ideas but you have to keep in mind they come from characters, not narration from the voice of God.
Aside from that I think the author has a huge boner for Magata as a character, but that's more of a meta thing, looking at how she's a recurring character in many of his stories.
>thinks that you can post anything objective about yourself
am I being memed
>because I say so
No, because I take into account normal story telling techniques and analyze them through that lens. Your entire argument boils down to
>I don't see it that way, so let's agree to disagree.
>Not the author.
You realize that the author writes all the characters, right? You literally can't separate the ideas they put forward from the author's own.
>Didn't read the thread
>Goes into full "No, we're smart. Trust us, we read books!" damage control mode
Let's see your board's world class scientists. Oh wait, that's right. You don't have any because you're a bunch of stupid children pretending to be smart.
It's not bait.
If all you do all god damn day is watch foreign cartoons and then go on your little american-japanese imageboard to then talk about how intellectual you are when the Japanese cartoon tries to appeal to an audience of children and normalfags you maybe are anti-intellectual.
Since you are closing your eyes and dismissing my post because it does not agree to you is very anti-intellectual and close-minded.
>Posts objective proof that they're smart, as seen by the fact that they're world leading scientists at top research institutes
I'm more likely to accept that world leading scientists are actually idiots that I am to accept that /a/ is smart.
I don't think it should be discounted, just that it's not being pushing those ideas that hard. So far I doubt they're really going to be relevant to the story.
They're window dressing. Part of the frame. And yeah, how an author choses to frame their story is relevant. But it's not the whole picture.
This might be the single most butthurt post I've ever seen on this site.
>/a/ is a bunch of rude elitist faggots who watch shitty cartoons!
>We HAVE to be smarter than them!
My sides have left orbit and won't ever come back.
>all god dam day
>except for the part of the day they do cancer research
Nigger, you're getting too defensive. I only browse /a/, this show is bad, and /lit/ is probably pretentious, but /a/ is full of the dumbest and most pointless discussion possible, and that includes most of my own posts.
I simply don't agree with what you consider "normal storytelling techniques". If we were having an argument about Knox 10 commandments for detective fictions that might be a thing, but there it just seems like you're pretending your opinion is a well known rule when it is not.
>You realize that the author writes all the characters, right?
And he can write them to be wrong or flawed if he wishes to. It's pretty easy to see that Saikawa's fanboyism towards Magata is meant to be seen as a negative thing for example.
I'm cancer-researcher-kun. I don't pretend that simply consuming media makes me smart, because it's entirely possible to read or watch something simple and overpraise it, and it's entirely possible to read or watch something that's actually clever and misinterpret it's ideas entirely. "Real books" are the endless bastion of masterful prose and deep and insightful breakdowns of the human condition that a lot of people like to pretend they are.
As for what I've learned strictly from anime and manga? It makes great Japanese practice.
>And he can write them to be wrong or flawed if he wishes to.
>Unless the story ends with the revelation "These smart people are actually stupid and have been talking out of their assess the whole time." then the author was on board with that pretentious garbage the whole time.
Yes I'm aware, and if you'd read the thread you'd know that I already touched on it. If the author presents ideas as ideas smart people have, and never challenges them, then the author thinks those are smart ideas. It's pretty easy to follow.
>"Real books" are the endless bastion of masterful prose and deep and insightful breakdowns of the human condition that a lot of people like to pretend they are.
Embarrassing. You probably enjoy Tolstoy lmao. You know fuck all about literature. Stay within your discipline, dullard.
We've gone full shitpost mode, haven't we?
And you can continue to pretend that greentexting >genre fiction makes you a master of literature.
The entire world recognizes me as smart because of the work I do, and only one of the two of us has been writing complete and coherent sentences. Which one of us is the dullard?
Smart people can be wrong and flawed. There's no need to say "no actually they were stupid all along".
If it's so easy to follow then you have already seen how those ideas have already been challenged and how they obviously are going to be even more in the conclusion of the story?
>has never came up with anything towards the advancement of curing cancer
Why don't you just say "I've never read a single scientific paper about cancer research." and save us the trouble? You sound like one of those idiots who thinks cancer is a single magical disease that has no way to be cured.
>makes you a master of literature.
I would say my professorship at a Uni in comparative literature is close enough.
>The entire world recognizes me as smart because of the work I do, and only one of the two of us has been writing complete and coherent sentences. Which one of us is the dullard?
Unfortunately, for you, I just joined the shitposting -- particularly when I saw your retarded comment.
Stay buttblasted, pleb.
First time posting in this thread.
It is true that much of the dialogue in this anime is rather pretentious and self fellating. In that respect this kind of dialogue is hard to stomach.
However maybe it's just an exaggeration in the context of fiction. The claim that Hiroshi Mori doesn't know how "smart" people would talk doesn't seem to be rooted in reality when you consider that he's a PhD level physicist/engineer, doing research and teaching at a top 3 university in Japan. I'm not quite sure why the dialogue ended up like that but maybe it's a difference in culture? Anyways for the most part, I do agree MIT anon makes valid and strong criticisms.
>Claiming qualification with no proof
I'm sure your assistant professorship at a state university makes you a real lit wizard. It shows through your insightful comments and ability to make a post without shitposting.
>Unfortunately, for you, I just joined the shitposting -- particularly when I saw your retarded comment.
>I have no idea what the fuck I'm talking about, but I found it appropriate to jump into a conversation without a shred of context and make an ass out of myself!
Yes, I'm the one that's mad they made themselves look like a fucking idiot.
Still waiting on you to form a coherent thought.
>claims to be a cancer researcher with no proof
And this goes right back to
>I have no idea what the fuck I'm talking about, but I found it appropriate to jump into a conversation without a shred of context and make an ass out of myself!
Try reading the thread next time, sport. Maybe you'll look like less of a blithering idiot.
So that's a decisive "No" on the "Can you form a coherent though" question.
>Yeah I don't see it.
Sure you do, unless you think portraying Saikawa as a fanboy and Magata as a killer and incestual temptress don't challenge anything. And that's just the most obvious part.
anything can be fabricated on the internet
unless you show me your face, penis, timestamp, social security number, and a credible source that has your name and picture on it then you aren't a cancer researcher
>tfw /lit/ pretends to be smart then immediately gets btfo by actual smart people who define their intelligence by accomplishment and not choice in media
This thread is amazing.
>not realizing there are plenty of successful anons watching chinese cartoons instead of wasting all their time and money on normalfag shit
You r9k fags that occasional have a circle jerk about how much of a worthless drop out you are might not be the majority you believe to be.
>being a STEM postgrad gives you authority when criticising anime
>posting pony trash on /a/
>implying that post had anything to do with judging anime and not refuting the claim that it was all said person does all day
You look more stupid every post.
I fail to see how even being top of your fucking field in biomed makes you able to talk with confidence on any topic. That's like half of the physics department at my uni, who think the only reason any field is not advancing is because it's not filled with physicists.
It's just fucking arrogant.
> biomed work
Which amounts to pushing buttons on a calculator and recording the results like a trained ape, while people in the humanities grapple with the endless ambiguities of the human condition.
Could you at least pretend to be a little bit familiar with what the insitute does, or are you just eternally buttblasted that you'll never get one tenth the funding or recognition that they do?
Holy shit you guys are assmad that anon is smarter than you and has actual taste in anime.
>All this eternal asspain
So I at least have to have a basic understanding of your discipline, while you would get completely lost in a high school level class about mine.
I working on therapeutic strategies and characterization of living systems that will get implemented by hospitals and save lives, and you'll do a bunch of math theory that amounts to nothing in the long run.
Except for that one screencap with sensei going on about the stupid majority, has a single additional line of dialogue been cited as an example of this show's pretentiousness?
I'll agree that sensei is annoying, but in real life you'll find lots of people who think themselves to be above the stupid masses, these people include both dumbasses, average poeple and actual geniuses.
There are probably fedora tippers watching this show and identifying with sensei, but that wasn't necessarily the author's intention, that line in the screencap could just as well be a way to characterise him as emotionally immature. Sensei even admitted to being a beta fag in the latest episode.
Anyone who uses the terms "moeshit" or "manime". Anyone who actually cares what other people do in their free time if they keep to themselves and don't hurt people around them.