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Anime where Japan wins WW2

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Aside from Rakudai this season, what other anime has Japan winning the war in the Pacific, and how did they achieve it? For example in Rakudai they won using a magical samurai.
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>>133751901
>A world ruled by crazy military dictators
Might as well move to Burma.
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>>133751901
That book wasn't so great.
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>>133752000
Thought I was gonna get political intrigue and a look at nazi politics, got 300 pages of pawnshop shenanigans instead.
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KanColle (at least they won at Midway)
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>>133751901
>not knowing Deep Blue Fleet
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>>133752152
I thought Kancolle had the shipgirls flashing back to their defeat in the Pacific War.
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>>133752257
>translations never
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>>133751901

Did somebody watch Man in the High Castle on Amazon?
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>Japan wins WW2
It could only happen in fiction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuDmA3dfoR8
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>>133752640
My thought exactly.
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>>133753025
>It could only happen in fiction.
Stop the flagwaving, burger. Japan could easily have won the Pacific war if Pearl Harbor went as planned. The Japanese fleet was very modern (built mostly by the French and British), but no match for the American fleet mostly because of its aircraft carriers. I think in total Japan had three while America had seven or something like that. The idea was to bomb a significant portion of the American fleet and all aircraft carriers in pearl harbor. However, three aircraft carriers were on patrol at the time of the strike while one was not damaged to the point of being beyond repair. As such, the Americans were still able to bring four aircraft carriers to the field, more than enough to defeat Japan.

Had the Japanese struck when all American aircraft carriers were in port, all Pacific territories between Japan and America would be Japanese, maybe even Alaska as well. Continental America would be impossible for the Japanese to take, that I agree on (not without consolidating Japanese power in its newly conquered territories (including densely populated Indonesia) to the point where they can start conscripting the locals), but conquering continental America was never part of Japans objectives. They merely desired dominance over the Pacific.
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>>133752640
How is that?
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>>133754050
It's a Philip K Dick's book about a alternative 60s timeline in which Germany and Japan won the WWII. OP's image is more or less how the USA are partitioned after the war.
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No good ones because you alt historyfags dont realize how difficult it actually would be to invade mainland usa.

Without magical bullshit explanations neither germany nor japan had the ability to do so.
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>>133754015
hahahahahahahaha
>>
Southeast Asia rightfully belongs to Japan. There was no massacre of civilians, Chinese soldiers in plains cloths were dealt with.
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>>133754234

His story seems plausible
You could only exert dominance over the seas with ships on WW2
Without ships america would be at a big disadvantage
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>>133754214

>muh armed population

That is not a significant factor at all
All it would do would be delay the conquest of some major regions

You should put more faith in your national guard than some untrained rednecks carrying rifles
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>>133754015
Even with a successful Pearl Harbour they hadn't have the industriar force to overcome the USA. By the start of the war, Japan had actually more battleships and aircraft carriers than the USA (which didn't have nor need a big fleet at the time). By the end of the war the USA fleet outnumbered even the initial Japanese fleet.
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>>133754319
Because the US didn't have a completely unscathed Atlantic fleet, the Japanese wouldn't have to destroy west coast shipyards, and physically put boots on the ground in Hawaii
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>>133754407
Also, anon is ignoring the fact that the USA fleet had the support of both the Britain and Australian fleets, meanwhile the Germans couldn't afford to send any ship to the Pacific theatre.
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>>133754015
? the japs didnt get the carriers and the oil with their attack on pearl harbour, two things the burgers needed to fight

and even if they did get the carriers, burgerland would have popped out half a dozen in a few months v 1 jap carrier built for the whole year or something

and on the infantry v infantry level japs were smashed hard

completely outmatched

just look at the battles, failure after failure

+ the reds wanted to grab japland to themselves with their dirty commie hands, millions of ivans would have come down on them

maybe instead of capitulating in 45, it would have been on 46, 47 etc. the loss was certain
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>>133754319
Except, no matter how many ship Japan destroyed, America could have just built more. America was an industrial giant back then, even if Pearl Harbor had completely annihilated the Pacific Fleet, they could have never touched the harbors and steel yards they needed to in order to actually cripple the American war effort. Pearl Harbor was an attack based on a flawed premise, that the Americans would have rolled over after having their main force in the region curb stomped, which was never going to happen.

>>133754347
The problem with invading America is not really the armed populace, it's the fact that you have to cross a fucking ocean to get there and America is fucking huge, in general the Japanese and Germans never had the logistical capabilities to do anything more than harass the American mainland, an invasion would have been entirely impossible.
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>>133754533
This is a usually ignored fact. Japan lost the naval war against the Allied fleet, but they also suffered an even bigger defeat in China against the Red Army.
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>>133754533
If pearl harbor was ravaged or even invaded, war would have been really difficult for the USA.
The supply problem would have been really difficult to overcome and in the meantime, India, Australia and China could have fallen.

The success of Japan was tied to German success. If German had failed, Soviet would have recked the Japanese on the land, making the long term success impossible.
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>>133754015

Educate yourself
http://www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm

Japan attacking the US was basically suicide by cop.
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This thread is /pol/ bait.
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>>133754407
>By the start of the war, Japan had actually more battleships and aircraft carriers than the USA

I don't think this is correct. Japan was only aiming to have more ships than the US Pacific fleet. If you add the Atlantic fleet in the US probably beats them on numbers.
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>>133751901
The anime surely had a terrible job adapting I guess because I don't think anything in the show implies that.

In fact I picked it because the alternate history premise but until now didn't see a single thing about it.
>>
>still no toppu wo nerae
Disappointed senpai
>>
>>133754801
USA had (in total) 5 large carriers when the war started, Japan had 6, all in the Pacific. You can argue that American carriers were larger, but still, the USA set sail several times more carriers than Japan each WWII's year.
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>>133754015
I'm not even a burger. The Japanese were genuine shits in WW2 and had no chance of winning.
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>>133751901
So here's the thing Japan had less than a Zero chance of "wining" let alone landing an invasion force on American soil. So then OP is dumb...
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Japan was having trouble even conquering China just because of how fucking big it is and how many people there were, how could they ever gave conquered America?
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>>133751901

God that would be so great.

The most plausible way for Japan and Germany to win the war is to have the Soviets join them. Just change history in such a way that Strasser instead of Hitler rises to power.
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>>133754533
>>
>>133754015
>They merely desired dominance over the Pacific.
This is wrong too.

They didn't want dominance over the pacific at all. They wanted to re-orient the Asian economic sphere around themselves. To accomplish this, they would extend to two different rings.

The inner ring and outer ring. They realized a prolonged war was impossible, so the hope was to beat the US so handily in the first 6 months that the US would be willing to negotiate for peace, during which Japan would surrender the outer ring they had captured back to the US to make them happy.
The Pacific was not the goal, merely the tool.

God, this is why I avoid /his/ like the plague. Armchair historians everywhere.
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>>133755035
As a flip, I approve of this.
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>>133751901
improved map of murica?
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>>133754015
>Japan had three while America had seven
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>>133751901
That's so laughably impossible that I can't take things like that seriously.
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Anime about WW2 fighter aircraft when?

The Wind Rises doesn't count.
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Just FYI
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>>133755884
>History is altered by those who win.
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>>133755884
Oh turkey kohais
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>>133755496
Historian here, can confirm.
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>>133755884
GREAT
MARIANAS
TURKEY
SHOOT
>>
>>133751901
How the fuck would there be a neutral zone? Does this guy honestly think they wouldn't fight for all those 100,000 square miles, if only so they could keep a better eye on the other side of the continent?

And where's Canada in all this? Did they not want it? It's the second largest landmass in the world, you'd think that would be important. Sure, it's butt-fucking cold for most of it, but they at least learned from their ski trip to Moscow, right? You know, considering they still won fucking WWII anyway?
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>>133755884
It's important to note, that was the first major battle where proximity-fuse anti-aircraft shells were deployed in the pacific This is a major reason why they were slaughtered so handily. It wasn't just because of the inexperienced pilots, even the few experienced pilots they had were bewildered at the 'accuracy' of allied anti-aircraft guns in that battle.
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>>133751901
>Anime where Japan wins WW2
>Rakudai
I don't think it was ever stated it was WWII and not just some "great war" like in Mahouka
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>>133756283
The neutral zone is basically just the natural barrier of the Rockies to keep the Japanese and the Germans away from each other, because Cold War shenanigans.
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After seeing that map, I thought they were talking about that new show on Amazon adapting Philip K. Dick's novel.
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>>133756283
Apparently, Dick couldn't imagine anybody declaring war on Canada.
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>Dropping Man in the High Castle on the same day as Jessica Jones
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>>133756669
Kind of is. It's a shitty book, though. Alternate Historical Fiction is stupid in 99% of situations.
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>>133755287
Operation Barbarossa ws the reason why Hitler lost
He got too greedy, too fast.
With all the troops he lost at the soviet front he could have withstood any allied assault on central europe to a stand-still
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>>133754015
>country with 3% of the world's industrial output defeating a country with 30% of the world's industrial output
>in a conventional war
>ever
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>>133756506
It's World War 2.

It was never stated which side they were on though.
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>>133756799
That's arguable. He probably WOULD have fought them to a standstill, but the allies could very well have cracked Germany if they tried enough for some odd reason.

The allied supremacy in production and supply is NOT to be underestimated.
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>>133756715
Why,Man in the High Castle is the better series overall

Marvel plebs are going to get BTFO
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>>133754015
Is this a copy-pasta? Because no one can be this retarded and autistic to type all that out.
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>>133754681
And if supply was made incredibly hard to start back up, and America was struggling to start their war in the Pacific, I think they'd be much more hesitant to throw their hat into Europe. We only entered the European theater because we were making gains in the Pacific I think? It woke up American nationalism. Without America D-day likely doesn't happen, so I'm not sure what would happen with Germany. Likely still get assfucked thanks to Barbarossa.
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>this thread
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>>133756873

> but the allies could very well have cracked Germany if they tried enough for some odd reason.

I doubt that, the only way the allied could crack into germany if the soviets didn't join in was with atom bombs.

If his soviet boner wasn't as big as it was he could have even negotiated an alliance or cooperation treaty

But what would happen is on the fiction side and I don't want to play as armchair WW2 general
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>>133756931
Germany declared war on the US within a week of Pearl Harbor.
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>>133756811
Do they own China and Korea in that universe?
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>Reading Dick's weakest book

Not this desu.
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>>133756931
If the Allied hadn't started their offensive, Germany likely had ended under Soviet control, and maybe France too, given that the British didn't have enough strength to launch an offensive on their own.

The question then would be if Japan had been able to stop the Russians and Chinese from eventually disembarking in Home Islands and taking over the country.
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>>133756972
Like I said, "If they tried hard enough for some reason".
I'm not wanting to get into fiction either, but Stalin hated Hitler, I sincerely doubt that would have happened.
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>>133756587
But it's too large. Fine that they have a DMZ like in Korea, but it's a zone larger than most countries. That's just stupid.
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>The Neutral zone
>It's not actually neutral

Explain this?
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>>133756972
The Wehrmacht wasn't even mechanized. The most common form of supply transportation was by horse. You don't win a war like that.
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>>133754214
>>133754620
However if the Germans were able to completely decimate American morale and foster their own elements within the country to revolt; say, several nukes on major American cities (if they'd finished the race first) and complete success in Europe, if you could get American public support to collapse, and destroy quality of life with embargos and nuclear strikes, you might be able to foster revolts or even capitulation. THEN you could partition it.

Administering it would be another thing.

>>133756984
Okay, I felt I was getting something wrong. Thank you.

>>133757023
I think the war may have lasted longer though. Before Normandy let the Allies tear through France and the lowlands, were the Germans really that close to losing? IIRC they only lost Barbarossa because they were stupid and pushed in way too far despite the Winter.
Even if the Soviets did eventually win I think WW2 would extend by a couple years, though still not enough time to buy Japan anything. I doubt they could hold all of China even if they had it. Eventually after the war in Europe they'd funnel Mao weapons and cash while fighting with the Nationalists and they'd be kicked back, Soviets would just flood into Korea and Manchuria. And they'd probably just force Japan to release whatever Pacific possessions they gained back to America. (I don't think they'd be brazen enough to just hold up a middle finger to the world at that point, even if Stalin wanted to.)
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>>133756587
I guess, but considering people can still live in places like Colorado, I'm still skeptical. Wouldn't they at least try to push the borders up to the mountains?
>>133756706
This will never not be funny to me.
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>>133756873
>The allied supremacy in production and supply is NOT to be underestimated.
It's questionable if the US would have joined the war unless the soviets got in on it first.
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>>133757145
>several nukes on major American cities
How. Crossing planes across the Atlantic is impossible at this time (especially without a return course), and Germany had no Navy capable of transporting one such plane.

>>133757192
I feel like that's something different. Roosevelt definitely wanted to go to war against Germany.
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>>133757122

Most armies in europe still used horses for transportation so this is just a moot point

Hitler lost a ridiculous amount of troops in the soviet front, troops that would have been on france in D-Day or africa or even on a reverse D-Day on england

But again, thats on the realm of fantasy so I won't delve into it
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>>133757225
I DID IT IN DARKEST HOUR THEY COULD DO IT IN REAL LIFE
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>>133757225
I can get nukes and airplanes that fly the whole map in civilization by the 1800s

I think you're wrong.
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>>133754015
The US had japan beat in both industry and manpower. It was retarded to think Pearl Harbor would take the US out if the war
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>>133757225
That's where an action-thriller movie comes in at the end of the 40's where Nazi Germany has all but cinched success in Europe and in the wake of a massive defeat and crushing economic and morale depression we follow two mischievous Fascists who take smuggled in plans and steal materials to build and detonate a nuke in America for the Fuhrer!
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>>133755945
Stay mad nip
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>>133756931
>We only entered the European theater because we were making gains in the Pacific I think?
No. Germany declared war on the U.S within a week as per the alliance. Roosevelt immediatly made the executive decision to focus the majority of the U.S war effort on Germany and the European theater in order to save England from the Nazis.
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I think we should all take a minute to reflect on what an absolute cunt MacArthur was.

By making the war in the Pacific about himself he caused threw away a lot more men and material than he had any right to and as a military leader he was completely hopeless.

The very definition of a politician general.
>>
>Making nuke
>any country outside of US
Heisenberg and Nishina both said separately that it can't be developed in this wartime because it's difficult in manufacturing terms.
>>
>>133757288
But if you made it so entering the war in the Pacific was a struggle, the victories wouldn't come as easy then, maybe more defeats would follow, and then that does a fuck ton to morale. Which really drove the industrial war machine in the first place.
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>Have a tactic that requires your troops to suicide
>Wonder why you lost
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>>133756931
Do you have any idea just how much war material the US has been producing and sending to their allies through lend-lease? There was a non-zero chance the US wouldn't have been able to overcome the losses at Pearl Harbor. And that's not factoring the Navy they had over in the Atlantic.
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>>133756799
Operation Barbarossa was a preemptive strike
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>>133757248
>>133757270
PLEASE!
THIS IS A SUPER SERIOUS HISTORICAL DEBATE.

SUPER
SERIOUS
>>
>>133757225
>How
Not him, but I'd say Germany would have just waited the US out. It's not like the US could launch an invasion of Europe without Britain anyway, and then later on Germany would have had ICBMs and dominated the world.

>Roosevelt definitely wanted to go to war against Germany
Sure, but the american people didn't. Remember that it was Germany that declared war on the US, not the other way around.

And anyway, D-day would have looked a lot different if the whole might of Germany was on one front. I don't think the US would have even risked it.
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I think Gunbuster's history had Japan joining the allies instead of axis and thus not getting bombed to hell and back.
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>>133757366
This is a discussion about what if? fiction, games are fiction.
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>>133756811
Nice translation but it was "great war" in original.
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>>133757352
No, I am still learning all the time.

>>133757333
But didn't Germany have the potential industry to make a nuke? Before all hope was lost they seemed to be up to some crazy fucking things.
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>>133757338
Americans fucking hated the Japs. Nothing short of absolute defeat would have ended that war, and the US wins every war of attrition.
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>>133757407
I'm inclined to believe you but do you have any proof?
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>>133754015
Excuse me, /a/ is for shameless otaku not brainless weebs.

>/out/
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>>133757402
Such a narrative cop-out. It doesn't even make any sense, who would they ally against? Fucking Germany, on the other side of the planet? Japan had zero interest in that. Unless Stalin become braindead and decided to ally with Germany, and than attacked Asia, Japan has zero reason to be involved in that scenario.
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>>133757349
If you're talking about the banzai charge/mass attack it was used far more sparingly than Hollywood and the accounts of 2nd/3rd line POGs to their grandchildren would have you believe.

The US, being on the offensive, actually made more mass attacks than the Japanese ever did. The only difference is that US Marines didn't shout "banzai" when they did it. They just shouted "attack" or the rough equivalent of "MURIKA".
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>People get mad at US for dropping the nukes that killed thousands and ended the war
>No one ever thinks about how many millions they saved by doing it
China sure as shit doesn't feel the same way
WWII Jap was just as bad as Germany
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>>133757192
No, it's not a question of if the US joins the war or not, but whether or not Japan attacks the US or implodes from the lack of resources from the embargo first. Japan could not sustain their war machine without the oil from the US. They could either go on with their conquest without those resources (not happening), give up (even more of not happening) or take it from the then US territory Philaphines. Due to their full retard leadership, it is a matter of when, not if, Japan attacks the US.
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>>133757550
But did they use samurai swords?
>>
I'm happy Japan didn't win.

It'd be a closed off, just starting to thaw country like China nowadays I think. We'd have no anime or Japanese cultural exports, it'd be completely traditional. If they held any major part of China and the Pacific we'd probably deal with them economically like the Chinese, or perhaps not, since we'd have burning hatred for them. I don't think Nixon would make a famous visit to Tokyo in the 70's.

Shit would suck
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>>133757561
>tfw the Fire Bombings of Tokyo killed more people than either of the nukes
>No one cares
>>
>>133754015
Get a load of this weeb. I guess they won the culture war since there are idiot weebs like this one reciting this shit.
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>>133757609
Or run headlong in machine gun fire?

Why don't wars happen like this anymore. Full frontal assault of American will. Is it because everyone we entangle ourselves with fight guerrilla-style?
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>>133755884
>Not posting the Superior Battle
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>>133757430
Germany stared their supposed nuclear program way before the US did. The US still managed to research, make and use a nuclear bomb before they did. That alone should be enough to tell you the Germany had shit for research in nukes.
>>
>>133752599
>Kancolle
>small c
>>
>Beginning on March 27, 1945, 1,000 parachute-retarded influence mines with magnetic and acoustic exploders were initially dropped, followed by many more, including models with water pressure displacement exploders. This mining proved the most efficient means of destroying Japanese shipping during World War II. In terms of damage per unit of cost, it surpassed strategic bombing and the United States submarine campaign.

>Eventually most of the major ports and straits of Japan were repeatedly mined, severely disrupting Japanese logistics and troop movements for the remainder of the war with 35 of 47 essential convoy routes having to be abandoned. Operation Starvation sank more ship tonnage in the last six months of the war than the efforts of all other sources combined.

>After the war, the commander of Japan's minesweeping operations noted that he thought this mining campaign could have directly led to the defeat of Japan on its own had it begun earlier. Similar conclusions were reached by American analysts who reported in July 1946 in the United States Strategic Bombing Survey that it would have been more efficient to combine the United States' effective anti-shipping submarine effort with land- and carrier-based air power to strike harder against merchant shipping and begin a more extensive aerial mining campaign earlier in the war. This would have starved Japan, forcing an earlier end to the war.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Starvation
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>>133754015
>built mostly by the French and British

Mate, in 1941 most Japanese ships were made in Japan and more than half of all their destroyers were more than 10 years old. The high command knew each day they weren't bombing Pearl Harbour was a day their navy got shittier.
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>>133757594
On that front, yes. I'm still not so sure they would have committed troops to the european theatre without soviet involvement. Hitler declaring war on the US doesn't guarantee that.

I think we can all agree that Japan would be crushed no matter what, but the topic was whether Germany could have succeeded if they didn't have to deal with the soviets. (Which is a very unrealistic scenario of course.)
>>
>>133754015
Maybe if the Krauts had also pulled off both Sealion and Barbarossa as planned.

Even then the yanks would only sit still for five years or so until building up enough ships to do whatever they like.
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>>133757617
>we'd probably deal with them economically like the Chinese
Who are 'we'? The US? Assuming Japan did win (however unlikely), what do you suppose would happen to the US?
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>>133757527
Well, it's not that implausible. It just requires Japan to not become Yamato Damashii post WW1. Really, all of the full retardness Japan had during WWII was because they listened to the wrong people. Remove that one element and I can see Japan allying with the US.
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>>133757677
I think it's a lot smarter to fight to win instead of fight to look badass (and then die uselessly in a hail of machine gun fire)
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>>133757693
>still not postimg superiorest battle
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>>133756706
>no one wants Canada or Mexico
>>
>>133757561
>>133757621
Not to mention the fire-bombing of Dresden
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>>133757782
Yes, America. Well, like another anon said, it'd probably be impossible to take the mainland US. And Japan had no interest in it. They'd just force a declaration of surrender, consequently shitting all over America's pride. I'm not sure what would happen in Europe, but even if we one I'm sure the public animosity would probably cause a radical president or two to get elected. Might slide into a depression.

>>133757814
The Japanese suicide attacks were immensely effective at striking a fear into the enemy. When you saw a wave of Japanese coming headlong at you, that's fucking terrifying.
>>
>>133757746
>the topic was whether Germany could have succeeded if they didn't have to deal with the soviets. (Which is a very unrealistic scenario of course.)
Stalin never intended to start a war with Germany in first place. Of course the question is that ideologically the Nazis were practically obliged to start a war on the Soviets, even if it was unviable.
>>
>>133757788
Impossible, Japan was at America's throat since the end of World War One. Don't forget that the military effectively ran Japan, and they were completely butt-blasted over the Washington naval treaty, America wanting to be a Pacific power and fact they were cock-blocking the jap's oil and rubber supplies.
>>
>>133757707
The US employed former german scientists. (Which admittedly Hitler in all his wisdom scared away earlier.)
>>
I always wonder in stories where one or two gigantic powers occupy most of the world.

Wouldn't the sheer size of the country make it impossible to control all that land?
>>
>>133757527
If they sided earlier with the "interwar Entente"/Allies they may have been accepted on the prospect that their colonial efforts in China could be brought to bare to create a buffer zone in Asia against communism, as well as creating the possibility that CHINA WOULD ONCE AGAIN BE EASILY ACCESSIBLE TO TRADE WHICH WAS A BIG DEAL.

Japan would have wanted this because it gave their national ambitions something approaching international approval. Allowing them to continue eating China unmolested, and continue trading openly (which might have prevented the Pacific War even if they didn't ally).

I'm pretty sure there was a US diplomatic paper published 1934~ about this (unlikely) possibility, though it wasn't necessarily about a war against Germany, because at the time it was debated that Soviet aggression in Europe was more likely.
>>
>>133757788
>Remove that one element and I can see Japan allying with the US.
Against who exactly?
>>
>>133757932
Muh Vichy France/Russia/America/Australia/etc
>>
>>133757932
Yes. You'd have to break it up into multiple administrative regions and even then I don't think it'd be possible to stop them from going their own way unless you had direct military presence.
>>
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Do people seriously think that Japan had a chance?

Just look at this.
>>
>>133757932
Most likely. Even Germany had to create the "Free France" because occupying the totality of France would cost too much money.
>>
Why is this thread still alive?
>>
>>133757746
I think Stalin had mentioned that he was surprised by the Germany attack not because it was a stupid move, but because Hitler did it first. Stalin had every intention of attacking and invading Germany. If it wasn't the US declaring war on Germany, it would've been on the Soviets instead. All things considered, Germany was absolutely correct in their decision to attack the Soviets first.
>>
>>133757883
Well, regardless of Stalin's wishes, war was pretty much inevitable between the nazis and soviets. The ideological differences and the simple threat of a unified western Europe would have led to the same situation, though perhaps at a late enough date for it to affect the outcome of the war.
>>
>>133757997
It's almost incomprehensible just how many Soviets died
>>
>>133757997
>>133758086
Russians were the real life example of zergs
>>
>>133756587
>because Cold War shenanigans
you accidentally russia and america
>>
>>133757902
That's because the Japanese got butthurt (rightly so) over getting nothing for their part in WW1. They pretty much emulated the Superpowers at the time that might = right. The US only embargoed the Japanese after they started invading shit in China.
>>
>>133758127
Chinese too.
>>
>>133757902
Japan was grumpy about the naval treaty, but there wasn't antagonism coming from the west until the invasion of Manchuria. If the government was stronger able to reign in those rogue army officers responsible, things would have turned out differently.
>>
>>133758086
The Soviets weren't ready for the war. Most of the combatants were civilians which were given a gun and sent to the frontlines, meanwhile the Germans had actual soldiers who had already fought several years in the war.

If something WWII probes that you can win just by throwing more tanks and planes to your enemy's face than he can manufacture, even if those are driven by farmers.
>>
>>133757225
>how
Rockets? Germany had an excellent rocket program going.
>>
>>133758086

How does that saying goes? WWII was won with British intelligence, American steel, and Russian blood.
>>
So why did Japan even try to attack America, why didn't they just help out Germany and the rest? Weren't they over-extending?
>>
>>133756931
Nigga all but a couple ships that got destroyed in pearl harbor were repaired to fully operational status 6 months later, 1 year later they doubled the size of their Pacific fleet.

It took Germany all it had in the Atlantic to overcome US industrial capacity and they were only able to do that for one month and the crashed hard afterwards.

There was absolutely 0 chance of Japan winning against the allies
>>
>>133757145
>completely decimate American morale and foster their own elements within the country to revolt; say, several nukes on major American cities

Would just make the U.S angrier really. The only reason why Japan surrendered was because Hirohito forced the Japanese government into surrendering as he was tired of seeing his country decimated by war.
>>
>>133758308
Because they couldn't win their war with china without attacking and occupying allied territories

They already got BTFO by the soviets once and had no intention of trying that again
>>
>>133758308
You must know IJA and IJN carried the war as if they are from other countries. It's widely admitted even by Japanese.
>>
>>133752640
Downloading third episode
>>
>>133757387
>Sure, but the american people didn't.
Just like the American people didn't want to go into WW1. Sure people didn't like the idea of the war, but they held no love for the Nazi's. It was easy work to whip up nationalistic propaganda to stir the citizens into a blood hungry fury.
>>
>>133758369
So China wasn't part of the allies at the time they attacked?

>>133758428
Damn, their emperor should have slapped them the fuck up and told them to concentrate, the axis losing seems to me like it was just really shitty planning, like Hitler invading Russia, and Japan attacking America
>>
>>133758302
German rocket tech wasn't anywhere near ICBM level. They were barely managing to get low payload rockets across the English Channel.
>>
>>133758469
>So China wasn't part of the allies at the time they attacked?
China was a chaos and the "official" government surrendered the country to the Japanese.
>>
>>133755316
10/10
>>
>>133757736
>This was all done in preparation for what was to be the bloodiest single land invasion in the History of the World.
>>
>>133757693
How is that a "victory"? Those are some heavy casualties.
>>
>>133758527
So Japan had some land in China but the allies took the rest then? Wouldnt fighting them in China be better than fighting America?
>>
>tfw you symphatize with the nazis
>>
>>133758127
Nah Germans were just very well trained and dug in.

Take a look at the Manchurian campaign. Casualties for the Soviets were very low.
>>
>>133758308
Hawkish generals went full retard, basically.
>>
>>133757932
>Wouldn't the sheer size of the country make it impossible to control all that land?

Ask Britain how they did it.
>>
>>133758469
>Implying the emperor wasn't just a figurehead.

The emperor effectively had zero power. Even when nukes hit and the emperor wanted to surrender, the military leaders were willing to throw a coup d'etat and kill the emperor to continue fighting.
>>
>>133758637
Are the japs just bad at fighting?
>>
>>133758692
They only had experience fighting farmers in China.

Of course they were shit.
>>
>>133758692
Whenever they went against any industrialized country they got pummeled.

Philippines and Singapore aside of course.
>>
>>133758692
Yeah. The Chinese were simply worse off due to a massive civil war. The Japanese really had no idea how to effectively wage war. Which makes sense since they were emulating the forms but not the functions of the major powers at the time.
>>
>>133758308
We'd embargoed oil to Japan to so they would stop raping everyone in China and taking over the Pacific. Japan having no oil of its own or anywhere in its newly taken territories needed to find a source of fuel and fast. Since all the sources were occupied by either the Soviets or the Americans, they chose the Americans under the belief that we would be unable to effectively prosecute a global war across two oceans. They were wrong.
>>
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>>133755035
>15000 killed during the bombing of Pearl Harbor
>300000 killed during the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima and many more due to radiation and cancer for more than 70 years and starting the cold war
>"AMURICA DID NUFFIN WRONG!!"
>mfw
My god is that the average mindset of an American?
>>
>>133758712
>>133758750
>>133758763
kek, lot of good yamato damshii did them then, they should have gotten gud instead of shooting country hicks and believing anime bullshit
>>
>>133758308
>why did Japan even try to attack America
Because it was only a matter of time before the US involved itself anyways to protect its financial interests - which is exactly what happened in 1916. At least with a preemptive strike Japan had a chance to alter the balance of power in the Pacific.
>>
>>133757824
>not present
>every single fucking time
ayyyyyyyyyyy lmao
>>
Why do the evil faggots always have the coolest uniforms?

Nazis and Imperial Japan both had great ones.
>>
>>133758811
Plenty more horrible shit than that was done in World War II, and none of it was acceptable. I think most can agree that it would be better if these things didn't happen.
>>
>>133758811
>Bunch of smelly looking savages rape and murder your people

Literally ISIS, look at everyone's reactions and compare it to the past, people are calling for the nuking of the middle east basically
>>
>>133758872
Because order = bad , chaos = good.
>>
>>133758823
We wouldn't have gotten anime bullshit if they didn't get btfo. Do you think the military government which was all about masculinity (no homo) would allow it?

>>133758811
Maybe they should've started suing for peace right after the first few major bombings, which is what any government that cares about its people do.

Oh wait, they didn't, to the point where they killed off the Okinawans.
>>
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>>133758811
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

Japs killed upwards of 300,000 CIVILIANS

This shit was literally a game to them
>>
>>133758811
Fucking liberals.
>>
>>133758872
I think Hugo Boss designed the Nazi's uniform. So of course they look stylish.
>>
>>133758946
I meant anime bullshit as in believing that they would win through sheer force of will/ the will of the emperor/ spiral power or some shit
>>
>>133758946
Anime used be oozing with masculinity.
>>
>>133759018
Post every show that aired concurrently and make that argument again.
>>
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>>133758872
You won't say that IJA floppy dog ear cap is cool will you?
>>
>>133758571
The engagement was between what was basically a tiny U.S escort fleet and the remaining bulk of the Japanese Armada. This task fleet was basically a token guard left to defend the U.S transport ships carrying supplies to begin the final step in the island hopping campaign and the eventual invasion of the home islands. Not only did the task force keep the transports safe, we manged with vastly inferior ship fire power to sink ships several times their size and tonnage and freak the Japanese command out so much they decided to retreat.
>>
>>133758308
Japan needed oil, they could only get it from the Dutch East Indies, the only reasonable routes to get that oil back to Japan was past the Philippines, which were an American protectorate. Therefore they needed to knock America out early to prevent future American interference.
>>
>>133759136
They must have realized they had no choice against a superpower like America though right?
>>
>>133758965
What a horrible example of shitty Asian typeset.
>>
>>133758571
Check out the balance of forces involved. Google USS Johnston.
>>
>>133759064
How is Japan so inept at war? Is this why they make so much shounen? To escape from the reality that they're just really bad at fighting?
>>
>>133759064
Quite. Battles have a larger context and wars, a political one.

In the grander scheme of things, there was not a lot of willpower left in Japan to keep it up after the absolute beating it was getting. Whether or not they needed to be nuked is literally an academic question, but whichever way you think, the string of defeats out of country, and the full scale bombing (whether the conventional bombs had them feeling defeated, which is reasonable, a lot of people alive today recall them and their families felt miserable and defeated, or if you think the Atomic bomb was needed, whether to cow the Japanese or really, to intimidate Russia.)

That's another thread where it gets complicated. Even if it wasn't strictly needed to use the bomb to defeat Japan, it showed Russia and everyone else, but especially Russia "look what happens when we use our Bomb, which we have and you do not". This did not last, as they needed a Bomb after that, but that is a whole other discussion.
>>
>>133759179
They knew they couldn't win a protracted war against a determined enemy, that's why they hoped to inflict a massive blow in a decisive attack that would make the Americans unwilling to fight on and sue for peace rather than suffer further losses.

You could say that they learned the wrong lesson from their victory over the Russians at Tsushima.
>>
>>133759179
Smart people probably knew they would lose, but Japan had an ideological goal to become a great power and dominate East Asia, so they had no choice.
>>
>>133759179
Step 1, disable the USN's Pacific Fleet.

Step 2, consolidate hold on East Asia while the Americans have no power in the Pacific.

Invading America was never really on their radar.
>>
>>133759350
They could have become a cultural power like chian was for a thousand years in that region.
>>
>>133759179
Yamamoto basically said that. The other military leaders didn't care/listen and did it anyway. As it hasn't been clear enough, the Japanese military leadership went full retard post WW1.
>>
>>133751901
Lol, there's no way Germany and Japan would've ever been able to invade the US.
>>
>>133757561
>this is what burgerboos actually believe

Japan had practically lost before they dropped the nukes.
>>
It can't be helped.
>>
>>133759493
But they weren't going to say we give up.
>>
>>133759454
That wasn't the goal though. They wanted to be an imperial power.
>>
>>133759463
>didn't care/didn't listen
The entire WW2 happened because of a pissing contest between the IJA and IJN.
>>
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>>133757902
>jap's oil and rubber supplies.
>>
>>133754015
Who gives a fuck about the islands? The eastern shipyards would've pumped out a new fleet and then the japs would've been crying for mommy.
>>
>>133758964
And America also spent over a year dropping Napalm on mainland Japan with B-29s and killed over 300,000 civilians. This is in addition to the 300,000 that died in the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_raids_on_Japan
>>
>>133759583
>Japan
>killed and raped civilians for shit and giggles
>>
>>133759540
oh yeah, but there was a hundred different ways to do it but they decided fucking shit up would have been the best way which destroyed all its relationships and backing the losing side
>>
>>133759583
More chinese were killed than japs overall by the war's end, not all of the former were combatants (if you can call a farmer with obsolete bolt action rifles, 'combatants').
>>
>>133758965
Westerners can't into numbers, so they put the number in letters?
>>
>>133751901
I wish this had happened. :/
>>
>>133758571

>Taffy 3's few destroyers and slower destroyer escorts possessed neither the firepower nor armor to effectively oppose the Japanese force, but nevertheless desperately attacked with 5 in (127 mm)/38 cal guns and torpedoes to cover the retreat of their slow "jeep" carriers.

> In response and without consulting with his commanders, Evans ordered Johnston to "flank speed, full left rudder", beginning an action that earned him the Medal of Honor.

>Now the Japanese and American ships were intertwined in a confused jumble. Gambier Bay and Hoel were sinking. Finding targets was not difficult. After 0900, with Hoel and Samuel B. Roberts out of the fight, the crippled Johnston was an easy target. Fighting with all she had, she exchanged fire with a swarm of enemy ships, four cruisers and numerous destroyers.

>However, it was the Japanese themselves that first recognized Johnston‍ ' s incredible actions that day: As a destroyer from the opposing fleet cruised slowly by, Robert Billie and several other crewmen watched as the Japanese captain saluted the sinking Johnston.

>But in exchange for the heavy losses for such a small force, they sank or disabled three Japanese cruisers and caused enough confusion to persuade the Japanese commander, Vice Admiral Takeo Kurita, to regroup and ultimately withdraw, rather than advancing to sink troop and supply ships at Leyte Gulf.

>This battle is often depicted as one of the major "what-ifs" in World War II. If Kurita had continued the attack instead of withdrawing, it is possible that the U.S. could have suffered heavy losses in troops and supplies, which would have delayed their capture of the Philippines. If Kurita's and Halsey's forces met, that would have been the long awaited "decisive battle" where both sides would have finally been able to pit their largest battleships against each other.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_off_Samar
>>
>>133758964
Nanking's population at that time was under 150,000
>>
>>133754015
PLEASE be bait
>>
>>133758469
>China wasn't part of the allies
No. China was fighting the Japs before WWII even started in Europe. Although the Nationalists were the official government, they and the Communists fought each other just as much as they fought the Japs. It was just a huge mess back then.
Even today, China is still a bit unhappy since their contributions don't get talked about much after having lost the most people after the Soviets during the war.
>>
>>133759787
Ok, Abe.
>>
>>133759787
If you bothered to even read the small summary in the article, the massacre wasn't just in Nanking, it was also at the capital
>>
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>>133759787
And the Jewish population in Europe during WW2 was under 150.
>>
>>133759834
>which destroyed all its relationships and backing the losing side
To be fair, their contributions were basically nothing except for dying and locking up some of the Japanese troops. Neither the KMT nor the CCP inflicted any significant damage to Japanese forces.
>>
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>man look at Americans
>a nation of shopkeepers and factory workers
>no match for a nation of TRUE WARRIORS
>no need to plan for a long war of attrition
>>
>Kurita turn
>>
>>133759962
>Neither the KMT nor the CCP inflicted any significant damage to Japanese forces
What gives you that idea?
>>
>>133754015
>>133754407
>>133754533
>>133755496
This is great that we can do this, but
>>>/his/
There is a board for this now.
>>
>>133759834
I like the part where China is trying to retcon history to make it so Mao was at Yalta representing China.
>>
History nerd here.

No, Japan could not have won WW2. If somebody told me to come up with a scenario wherein Japan could have won WW2, the world would have had to be so different that the thought experiment has no point.

First off, no, nobody can invade America and win. The logistics just don't make sense. If we're strictly talking about winning WW2, then it could have happened if the USA didn't join the war and Japan was left free to go wild across Asia. Of course, that means none of the other wacky scenarios here would happen.

If you want Japan to legit invade the USA and "win" traditionally, then we're have to go to an alternate timeline completely. In that world "Japan" would have to already include a large chunk of China before the 18th century. Then when the country goes through the Meiji Reformation, it would have become an industrial superpower dwarfing the European powers and the US. In that case, yeah, it could have won WW2. We would have seen a 20th century dominated by Japan instead of the USA. However, such a hypothetical nation wouldn't be "Japan", as it would be dominated by Chinese ethnicity.

So basically, no, "Japan" could not have "won" WW2.
>>
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>JAPAN
>a society which submits the individual needs to the collective
>kills tallied for the squadron not the pilot
>most pilots fought solo, shitty radio tech didn't help
>aces were kept on the front lines as long as possible which resulted in them dying, with shit for replacements
>gear often was poorly maintained, poorly supplied, absolute shit logistics because not glorious enough
>members of a conformist society wanted personal glory
>AMERICA
>society which prizes individuality and freedom
>kills tallied for the person, not the squadron
>most pilots fought in teams, to overcome Zero's maneuverability
>aces were pulled from the front lines to train rookies, sacrificed personal glory for the greater good
>maintenance and logistics polished and working like clockwork
>members of an individualist society working together for the greater good
>>
from technical point of view in japan, their mainstay fighter mitsubishi zero was totally fragile to make up for their crucial shortage of materials and prioritize its mobility, so even one hit was fatal
this led to the significant loss of their capable and skilled pilots
additionally, they made light of the development of radar system despite which was invented by japanese known as Yagi-Uda antenna
but in any case, the completion of atomic bomb would have determined the outcome sooner or later
>>
Alright nerds, how good was Japan's anti-sub warfare?
Surely an island nation would take something like that seriously.
>>
>>133758811
Listen you little political activist shitstain.

It's not that MURICA!!! did no wrong, it's that the japanese under their imperialism nonsense were a hell of a lot worse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes

Read that for a bit, the mere fact that most of their war crimes can also be called "Massacres" should tell you a lot, let's not forget the fact of forced labor camps, the rape of and pillaging of entire nations across the coast of asia, executions beheading-style, women being repurposed as sex slaves for military officers, etc.

There's a reason why most of Asia has an unending hatred for the Japanese, and it's not because they censor their porn (Those barbarians)
>>
>>133760412
Uh-huh, and you'd think a country dependent on imports would take the defense of those imports seriously, too.

RIP in Papa Johns, merchant fleet
>>
>>133758811
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_war
Read up, buddy
>>
>>133760412
America made Germany look like amatures in submarine warfare with their performance in the Pacific.
>inb4 mad germaboos
>>
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>>133760412
>spubmarines comprised less than two percent of the U.S. Navy, but sank more than 30 percent of Japan's navy, including eight aircraft carriers. More important, American submarines contributed to the indirect decapitation of the Japanese economy by sinking almost five million tons of shipping — more than 60 percent of the Japanese merchant marine.
>>
>>133760552
At least they have a porn industry. The rest of asia has either no internet, or have to rely on shitty cam sites to jerk off. I'll agree it's pretty barbaric, I mean how can I enjoy a teasing handjob video without seeing the hand or the job?
>>
>>133760614
Well to be fair Americans actually tried to protect their shipping convoys so the Germans had a tougher job.

Meanwhile japan lost hundreds of ships in mere months to mines because incompetence.
>>
>>133760701
Why was Japan so shit at war?
>>
>>133760701
All those poor Kantais.
>>
>>133760738
They came from a xenophobic island nation and their only experience in warfare came from killing themselves and bullying other asian peasants and native tribes who can barely defend themselves.
>>
>>133760835
>Russo-Japanese War
>>
>>133760863
>russia pre-WWI
>what is Khalkhin Gol
>Manchuria Campaign
>>
>>133760835
Their xenophobia also meant they no tradition of recon or intel gathering. They composed elaborate plans while they expected the enemy to just sit there and take it. They also did not expect their codes to get broken.
>>
>>133755035
So when do we get nuked for all those crimes?
>>
>>133760552
Most of Southeast Asia is actually okay with Japan now. The ones who are least so are Singapore, who are still hilariously weeaboo.

Source:

http://www.mofa.go.jp/files/000036094.pdf
>>
>>133761334
>we
Who?
>crimes
What crimes?
>>
>>133757332
>he caused threw away a lot more men and material than he had any right to and as a military leader he was completely hopeless

Explain.
>>
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I guess the magical samurai had with him the superior katana.
>>
>>133755035
Bullshit, in Gate I was told Japan invented human rights.
>>
>>133757270
If the middle ages didn't happen there could have very well been planes and nukes in the 1800s.
>>
So this year we've seen, what? War crime denial, historical revisionism and completely inane alternate history wank that exists for the sole purpose of self-fellation.

When are we gonna get a series that just outright says Imperial Japan didn't do enough at Nanking or Korea or whatever?
>>
>>133762095
When has anime denied war crimes? Old farts did it but who cares about them?
>>
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>>133761933
>>
>>133758134
>rightly so

?
>>
>>133762134
Shokugeki no Soma claimed that Imperial Japanese Army never starved Allied prisoners, in fact they gave them perfectly good roots to eat but silly gaijins don't know how to eat root vegetables and think Japanese force them to eat inedible tree roots and think that is a war crime.
>>
>>133759535
Actually they had been in talks with Russia regarding a surrender since 1944. They would accept any terms so long as their Emperor was able to stay in power.
>>
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>>133762458
That dumb cooking shit? Show me.
>>
>>133762437
In the Treaty of Versailles, Japan wanted the inclusion of a racial equality clause. The other allies turned it down, which Japan interpreted as further evidence of the western powers seeking to sideline Japan.
>>
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>>133762458
>>
>>133762458
Even if that were true, if you can TELL that they don't think it's food, not fucking showing them that it IS food is the same as not giving them any at all.
>>
>>133762661
>talks with Russia about surrender
>"we're not at war, but we surrender"
Oh my gooooddd
>>
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>>133762095
What's with Japans inferiority complex?
I think they are even trying to out QE america.
Pretty soon JKs will only accept gold or yuan for enjo kosai.
>>
>>133756706
>German Axis
>Japanese Axis
>...
>...
>Canada

cryinglaugh.emoji
>>
>>133762905
Nah, they want Soviets to mediate the peace negotiations with the US. Which went out the window when the USSR fulfilled their promise to the US and declared war on them instead, then marched through Manchuria in the most well analyzed offensive in history that is taught in officer school .
>>
>>133756706
didn't they also drain the meditterannian in that book? That always got me since that would probably destroy italy.
>>
>>133759463
>Yamamoto basically said that

Pretty much ALL the navy brass said that. Unfortunately the government was effectively dominated by the army..
>>
>>133756706
>That straight slant across South America
What the fuck are these territory lines?
>>
>>133763095
>us
>wanting Stalin in the war post 1943
I want to get off this wild ride
>>
>>133763135
Dick is a giant retard who played around with a marker. It doesn't show on that map, but the Mediterranean was actually drained of all its water so the Nazis can have more farmland too.
>>
>>133758692
They didn't have army tradition. Same as italy.
>>
>>133762687
>the other allies turned it down
No, just America and the British Empire. Everyone else supported it, with an overwhelming majority.
>>
>>133763200
Look, even the designers of Operation Downfall said that it was going to be a bloody apocalypse. There was unrest in the US who just wanted the war to be over.

US needed help and USSR was in possession of the most battle hardened troops in the entire war.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the luckiest break in the war.
>>
>>133756715
>watching Kek: The Superheroine

this board is too pure for faggots like you
>>
>>133759940
You're omitting slavs/gypsies/cripples/retards/communists/other demographics viewed as undesirable under Nazism.
>>
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>>133763314
>shittalking Italy
>MUH INCOMPETENT ALLY MAYMAY
>>
>>133763458
The most powerful memes are the ones that are completely true.

Italy a shit in pretty much everything except gunslinger girl, hth
>>
I didn't know /a/ were fucking war experts all of a sudden. did /k/ come here?
>>
>>133763458
Italy was more trouble then it was worth, but then again, so was Japan. Germany had some pretty horrible allies in WW2.
>>
>>133763549
>/k/ knowing history that doens't exclusively have to do with guns

War does have to do with guns, but is overall much to complex and has too many factors for the average /k/ poster. It's fucking /his/ man.
>>
>>133763572
well at least itally didnt force another nation into the war.
>>
>>133763549
An interest in Japan (among other things) will inevitable result in an interest in WWII. The recognition that Japan is pretty shit is what separates people who like anime/manga and actual weeaboos.
>>
>>133763661
Man why is Japan so fucking shit? And why are Japanese so... weird and generally also shit? I mean I know some factors and facts, but I don't think that they could actually form the whole picture.

Man what the shit. The western civilization is so much fucking better. For now.
>>
>>133760412
It improved considerably after the May affair.

>>133760614
Funny thing is, the Germans addressed their problem with defective torpedos exponentially faster and more effectively than the Murkens.
>>
>>133763549
No need to be a expert in anything to know that Japan was heading for a total defeat the moment they bombed Pearl Harbor. Their entire strategy hinged on the US not excepting massive war losses and then call for a peace treaty. Can't really get that when you sneak attack on a Sunday morning, and kill over 2,000 Americans in their sleep.
>>
Forget Japan's inferiority complex for a second.

Why are they so terrible at making super-state maps? It's like they're just going nuts with a paint tool rather than considering political nuances.
>>
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>>133763737
Japan recognized that China was no longer the cultural powerhouse it was. They looked elsewhere to leech ideas from to bastardize. Western Europe was the new China. And in 19th century Western Europe they found Social Darwinism.
>>
>>133763808
>Europe
>African Union
I can't breathe
>>
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>>133763737
>>
>>133761578
>Who?
Murkens.
>What crimes?
War crimes.
>>
>>133763936
>War crimes.
Which war and against who?
>>
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>Japan starts the war with ten "battleships"
>four of these "Battleships" are actually 1912 vintage Armored Cruisers that were literally built before the term "Battlecruiser" existed
>two of them are members of the Fuso class, also built in 1912
>they are so terrible and outdated that even JAPAN doesn't want to use them until literally nothing else is left
>two more are of the Ise class, which is like if you took a Fuso and made the crew quarters even shittier
>regarded widely as one of the most uninhabitable classes of ship ever made
>Japan doesn't even want them as part of the battle line, decides to turn them into Battleship-Carrier hybrid freaks that can't actually do the job of either class
>the final two are the Nagato class, which while being a decent design, are poorly protected and use an ancient turtle back armor scheme from the Ironclad era
>Neither of the Yamato class are prepared before the war begins, partly because Japan found out that they could sail further than they wanted them to, which required them to sit in the yard for an extra four months as they reduced the fuel capacity


Japan, yes.
>>
Sometimes I forget what idiots yurokeks are
>>
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>>133764004
>at Leyte Gulf Yamato did not land a single shot
>shittier war record than the Armored Cruisers
>>
>>133763754
Strangely enough, the Board of Ordnance dragging their feet on the torpedo issue might of given the US its enormous advantage later in 1943. The Japanese may have pushed more effort into convoys and ASW earlier, if the big losses a working Mark 14 torpedo would of done had happened in 1942. But, that obviously never happened, and in 1943, the US not only had a working torpedo, but a far bigger submarine force to to really slam into Japan's unguarded merchant fleet with a far greater force then what could of been applied in 1942.
>>
>>133764100
Please go and deal with those "sensible adults" at your universities, those amazing "safe spaces"
>>
>>133763754
The fact that the Americans managed to do what they did WITH defective torpedoes makes it even more embarrassing for the Japanese.
>>
>>133763335
>viewed as undesirable under Nazism.

Under Nazism only?
>>
>>133763950
All of them, really, but more specifically WW2, and against enemy forces, enemy civilians, allied civilians... pretty much everyone we came into contact with.
>>
>>133763808
>in the future, Europe is part of Africa.
Seems accurate.
>>
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>the west writes stories about the U.S. winning Vietnam
>everything is worse overall and international tensions are always portrayed as even higher

>Japan writes about them winning the war for no real reason
>>
>>133763549
Kancolle and Gate turned everyone into a WW2 expert.
>>
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>2nd battle of Guadalcanal
>middle of the night
>Kirishima tries to shoot an American battleship that can't fire back due to a power surge in the engine rooms knocking the out all electricity
>five broadsides and twelve salvos with 14" guns at a target 10,0000 yards away
>only a single shell hits the American battleship, striking the barbette of turret #3 and failing to actually do anything
>another American battleship spots Kirishima on radar
>closes to 12,000 yards undetected because
>Japan
>radar
>fires sixty-five 16" shells
>nineteen of them Kirishima
>rolls over and sinks

mu-muh pagodas

muh night battles!
>>
>>133764004
>Ise class [...] made the crew quarters even shittier
>regarded widely as one of the most uninhabitable classes of ship ever made

Explain.

>>133764004
>Yamato class are prepared before the war begins, partly because Japan found out that they could sail further than they wanted them to, which required them to sit in the yard for an extra four months as they reduced the fuel capacity

Reminds me of how we went to the extra effort of giving the South Dakota class weaker engines because, as usual, our military brass was (and still is) comprised of retards.
>>
>>133764375
>Japan writes about them winning the war for no real reason
magic. Magic is always the reason.
>>
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>>133764273
>Japan slaughters 25 million civs across Asia
>uses slave labour
>soldiers shove blades into vaginas of sex slaves
>force feed them their fetuses
>Unit 731 with biological warfarme
>plans to use bubonic plague on USA
>loses only 1 million to bombings
>most of evidence destroyed so trials aren't effective
>America rebuilds Japan economically afterwards
>"B-b-but what about American war crimes?! ;_;"
Please tell me you want to keep talking about what is "fair".
>>
>>133764442
That's a lot of scrap metal.
A shame no one had the technology to collect it back then, they could've built a ton (many hundreds of tons really) of non useless shit with it.
>>
What Japan really should have done was to take the army's "Northern Plan" instead of the navy's "Southern Plan," and gear up for war against the Soviet Union.

Some things to consider:
>Not enough steel and fuel
This was due to the government giving priority to the navy, due to giving in to their "Southern Plan" proposal. The navy and army had a rivalry for decades before the war and were fighting for the government's approval. The army proposed pushing into the Asian continent and fighting the USSR, while the navy pushed for a Pacific expansion and confronting the US. The government's decision to take the navy's side was due to the army's failure to defeat the Soviets at Khalkin Gol. I feel that the government should have given the army another chance and allow them to improve on their deficiencies, such as their logistical problems and lack of adequate armor.

>Japan's tanks and weapons are shit
A lot of Japan's equipment was actually pretty okay or even good. Tanks such as the Type 97 Chi-Ha and Type 95 Ha-Go were good for the time that they introduced. Although they wouldn't have stood up to new Soviet tanks, one should note that Japan's available army equipment may have been better if the Northern Plan was taken. If Japan didn't pour all of their resources into giant battleships and super submarines, the army would have had better equipment by 1941. The Type 1 Chi-He would have been available in 1941 in large numbers, and something better would follow. Look at the Germans, they started the war with Panzer IIs, Panzer IIIs, and howitzer equiped Panzer IVs. By 1942 and 1943, they started fielding long barreled Panzer IVs, Tigers, and Panthers. Given additional resources, Japan would have been able to do the same.
Their infantry weapons were also fine. Their rifles were strong and robust. Their light machine guns were reliable and ergonomic. Their "knee mortars" proved highly effective in the Pacific, and were supplied in large numbers.
>>
>>133764273
>but more specifically WW2
USA committed no war crimes in WW2.
I'm saying it as someone living in an Axis country.

If you had said Vietnam for instance I'd say yeah sure, but WW2. No. Unfuck yourself.
>>
>>133764248
I thought we were talking about extermination.
>>
>lose 4 (FOUR) carriers in a single battle
>>
>>133764552
>Although they wouldn't have stood up to new Soviet tanks
They wouldn't have been facing any new Soviet tanks. There was no way to get them to the East Coast of Russia at that time. In fact for many years to come there wouldn't have been a way to do it.

I don't see how that would've changed anything, Japan would've still lost the war and any advantage they would've had in the end.
>>
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>>133764452
Not how, a lot of "America wins Vietnam" stories usually involve superheroes or some other supernatural force. Watchmen had Dr. Manhattan get involved, for the most famous example.

What I meant is that there's meaningful purpose to this point of divergence.
>>
>>133764451
>Explain

Basically the Ise's are shortened version of the Fuso with a different turret layout.

Unfortunately, at the same time they reduced the size of the ship, they increased the number of crew, resulting in horrific overcrowding.

>Reminds me of how we went to the extra effort of giving the South Dakota class weaker engines because, as usual, our military brass was (and still is) comprised of retards.

the South Dakotas actually had a more powerful powerplant and went faster than the Preceding class.

You have to remember that this was a treaty ship, and it had to weigh in at 35,000 tons or under. In order to add engine power, you need bigger engines that weigh more. To keep under the limit, you would have to sacrifice armor.

The Iowa class battleships were basically South Dakotas that added another 10,000 tons in exchange for a 6 knot speed increase and no additional protection.
>>
>>133754015
Are you dumb? Japan fought to a stalemate on mainland China. They didn't even conquer the entirety of it, and despite that the Chinese are responsible for more casualties inflicted on the Japanese armed forces. Sure America had a part in wrapping up the war with strategic victories and two bombings, but are you forgetting that the Chinks had been fighting the Japanese and each other since 1937, slowly whittling down their manpower. Also Japan is an island, lack of resources and oil. They were never able to fully exploit what negligible reserves there were in their annexed territories.
>>
>>133764522
The Chinese actually did see the dollar signs and conducted illegal salvaging. Poor Kuma and Haguro were just some military grave sites that got defiled.
>>
>>133764582
The nukes were completely unnecessary. Murika argues that they wanted to spare lives, but they could have done that by accepting the conditional surrender. In the end they let Hirohito live, so the entire thing was pointless.
>>
The United States constructed more carriers during WW2 than the IJN had _ships_ in the entire war.
>>
>>133764582
Being a member of a former Axis nation doesn't make you an expert on WWII. Things like the Bombings of Tokyo or Dresden or the imprisonment of Japanese-Americans could easily have been considered war crimes. And that's ignoring the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The US won though, so there was no way to persecute anyone.
>>
>>133764688
Funnily enough, the loss in Vietnam was a purely political one. Viet Cong won a propaganda war. Tet Offensive was actually the closest America ever was to winning in Vietnam.
>>
>>133764733
They nuked Japan because the Emperor had no power at that time. His proposals were completely irrelevant and no one in the country would have accepted it.
The fighting spirit of the Japanese Army had to be crushed first.

Really USA did what they should've done in Iraq 10 years ago.

What's happening now is what would've been happening after WW2 if the Japanese and Germans weren't crushed so thoroughly. You can't erase an ideology by simply signing a treaty.
>>
>>133764787
Maybe Germany and Japan shouldn't have started bombing civilians if they were so shit at it.

You reap what you sow motherfuckers.
>>
>>133764787
>muh Japanese camps in USA
That's not a war crime. That's sound thinking.
We're at war with Islam now, there's no camps and the results are plain to see.

I wish our political leaders had the same insight the ones during WW2 had. Unfortunately they are retards.
>>
Actually, as someone with some understanding of history, economics and military capabilities involved, magic samurai is as good an alt history for Japan winning in the Pacific as any.

In actual reality, Japan was no match for the US and the Japanese KNEW IT.
>>
>>133764552
continued

>Soviet Union too strong
Yes, the Japanese did lose at Khalkin Gol, but it wasn't a crushing defeat as many believed. The Japanese lost because they fielded less troops and had to withdraw due to losing too much of this already small number of troops. The Soviets actually took heavier losses despite field far far more troops, tanks, and other equipment. Despite this disparity in numbers and equipment, the Soviets took very heavy losses themselves. They lost more tanks despite having arguably better tanks (BT-5s, BT-7s). The Japanese also lost because they failed to implement a proper "combined arms" strategy like the Soviets did, and ended up being encircled. If the Japanese learned from these mistakes in Khalkin Gol, they would have fared better.
Another thing, if the Japanese got ready by 1941, they would have been able to coordinate with Germany. Stalin did garrison the Soviet Far East, but had to move 10 or so divisions to the West to save Moscow. I think a Japanese attack would have prevented this and contributed to better gains by the Germans.

>Soviet Union too big
Japan wouldn't have to punch that deep in the USSR. Tying up the Far East garrisons would have allowed Germany to take Moscow, and maybe even Stalingrad, and then the Caucasian oil fields. It would have been well-worth it. Even though Japan had fuel problems, it was estimated that they had enough fuel to fight for 2-3 years, which would have been enough time for the Germans to grab the Soviet oil fields. Also, the US only implemented that oil embargo in response to Japan's invasion of Indochina. They wouldn't have invaded Indochina if the Northern Plan was taken, and thus they would probably be able to keep their oil.

>Soviet Union too cold
Japanese soldiers knew how to fight in winter combat. Their divisions based in Hokkaido were especially well-trained for these conditions. Ironically, those divisions were sent to fight in Malaya because of the Southern Plan.
>>
>>133764787
>imprisonment of Japanese-Americans
If you wanted to prove how evil and bloodthirsty Americans are you should have picked the treatment of the Natives
>>
>>133764888
The point is, why win or bring it up at all, if it's not relevant to the story? How many American stories just casually rewrite history?
>>
>>133764442
Fun fact, Japanese ship captains claimed they didn't need radar for night combat because Japanese dark eyes absorb more light and have superior night vision compared to blue gaijin eyes.
>>
>>133764752
The US constructed like 140 carriers during the war. The IJN was not that small.
>>
>>133764970
*tips that dumb straw hat that 'muh ronin' wear*
>>
>>133764957
It's relevant, because the samurai who won WW2 for Japan is the protagonist's grandfather and an inspiration to him. It also explains why everyone actively encourages high schoolers to kill each other in death matches for sport.
>>
>>133764502
Thank you. There is a level of "whataboutism" that is asinine even by weeb standards. They invariably end up cribbing from Gar Alperovitz when the salient facts are pointed out to them.
>>
>>133764839
I'm not saying that Germany and Japan didn't commit war crimes too, or that many of the Allied actions weren't justified. But these things caused lots of death and could easily be considered unjustified force.

>>133764867
>>>/pol/
Really though, it wasn't. Many of the people imprisoned were second generation immigrants and American citizens. These people had little to no remaining connection to Japan and were not much of a threat to the US.
>>133764952
That is a completely different issue.
>>
>>133764921
continued

>this leaves the United States to walk all over the Pacific
If Japan didn't attack Pearl Harbor, the US probably wouldn't have entered the war, even though the US was giving material support the the UK. The American public was very against getting involved in WW2 before Pearl Harbor. Even if Congress somehow approved to enter the war, paying for the war would have been difficult. Civilians were convinced by the government to buy bonds, which ended up paying for half of the war costs. In this situation that US would enter the war without a real incentive, the citizens would not have bought bonds and there would be far less volunteers to fight.
>>
>>133764957
>How many American stories just casually rewrite history?
Funny enough, American's write more "USA loses to enemy of the century" stories more than anyone else. The US military for all the mockery it receives never lost a really big conflict outside of Vietnam.
>>
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Listen to this guy.
>>
>>133752097
>the meta ending about parallel universes

Man, it just did not live up to the premise.
>>
>>133764666
Screwing around with the Soviets would have allowed the Germans to make better gains. The Caucasian oil fields provided like 70% of Soviet oil. Also one of the reasons why the Soviets were able to save themselves and outproduce the Germans was because they moved a lot of their industry to the east. Japan could have targeted this industry to support the Germans.
>>
>>133752000
It was fucking shit. Nothing really happened and we got some completely unnecessary meta shit in the end. I liked Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep but PKD is overrated as fuck.
>>
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44vzMNG2fZc
>>
>>133757504
Nothing more weeb than referring to yourself as an otaku.
>>
As long as Japan was engaged in their China adventure, war with the US was inevitable. Everyone on the world stage knew this. The escalation to war was long and troubling -- Japan just struck first. If Japan hadn't attacked Pearl, the US was certainly going to attack a little later. It's amazing how people can talk so much shit about WW2 without understanding anything about the economy and geopolitics.
>>
>>133765076

One more thing I want to add. Russians don't want to admit it, but American lend-lease was one of the reasons why the Russians were able to survive the war. If the Americans did not join the war, the Soviets would not have received lend-lease from the US. Even if the US decided that helping communists was in its interest, the Pacific Route, where the Soviets received around half of their lend-lease goods and equipment, would have been closed off by the Japanese. IRL, the Japanese allowed Soviet-flagged ships to gets its goods from the American west coast. This would not have happened if the Japanese waged war on the Soviets.
>>
I don't get why Japan is so salty. It's not like we made movies where we won Vietnam just so we can have a world where we said we did. We just made cool war movies and got an awesome soundtrack out of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec0XKhAHR5I
>>
>>133765302
likely not, because the American public would not have supported it nor would they have bought the bonds that were needed to pay for the war. We like to think that America is for justice and fighting evil, but we only participated to get revenge for Pearl Harbor. This was the main driving factor.
>>
>>133765236
How about wishing to be Japanese and cursing your current existance as a result?
>>
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>>133765356
America was pushing Japan to declare war on them by enacting an embargo on goods and fuel to them. Hell, they explicitly ORDERED mexicans to not sell them one barrel of oil.
>>
>>133757023
>If the Allied hadn't started their offensive, Germany likely had ended under Soviet control, and maybe France too, given that the British didn't have enough strength to launch an offensive on their own.

desu if the US wouldve been completely neutral like the claimed germany wouldve won the war in europe.
>>
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>>133765448
>>
>>133765302
Uh no, while the Chinese invasion did lead to sanctions, it wasn't the reason for the all important oil supply getting embargoed. Funny enough, no one agreed with Japan interfering in China's civil war, not even Italy and Germany, who funded and trained the Chinese military.
>>
japan isn't that shit at warfare, compared to most states. they slapped russia's shit like 40 years prior and could have probably done so again at the time.
>>
>>133765324
>meanwhile Germany lost TWO world wars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5FPkTd2DTY
>>
>>133765428
That's more on the mentally unstable side of things.
>>
>>133765587
>a country is having trouble fighting off half the world
No shit.
>>
>>133752097
The TV series version has more political intrigue between the Nazis and the Japanese and minimal pawnshop. The ending is inconclusive though and they're clearly leaving things open for another season though Hitler trolling everyone by turning out to be the Man in the High Castle all along was hilarious
>>
>>133754015
>Stop the flagwaving, burger. Japan could easily have won the Pacific war if Pearl Harbor went as planned.
LMAO FAGGOT MURRICANS STILL WOULD HAVE HAD FUCKING NUKES
>>
>>133765587
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5lpzQytlYA
>>
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>>133765550
>russia
>>
>>133765324
It's not like any worthwhile writer in Japan writes about magical samurai winning ww2, those kind of material are all in garbage meant for mass consumption, like anime. If you look in the right places there's no doubt you'd find bargain-bin alt-history books about how America would've won Vietnam.
>>
>>133759290
yes. I find shit like Kantai collection hilarious since most of those ships were probably sunk or destroyed during WWII.
>>
>>133758811
That has very little to do with the image you're responding to.
>>
>>133754015
>if Pearl Harbor went as planned
3/10 apply yourself
>>
>>133765587
Yeah, and Italy won two world wars. Who sucks at warfare now Krauts?
>>
Look at WW2 as the last gasp of the imperial era -- you had these middle powers that were late to the industrial revolution when the established powers were locking everything down, and these smaller guys wanted a piece. The West and Russia weren't going to let them. It's that simple.

So as long as Japan was trying to take stuff, war with the US was inevitable.
>>
>>133765541
I am not defending the japanese. I am simply pointing out the fact that americans were passive-agressive on their approach in the war.
>>
>>133754681
>India, Australia, China
Impossible. Japan was already struggling with a stalemate in China as it was, even before the war Pearl Harbour when they had nothing to distract from the Chinese front they weren't able to make any headway into mainland China.

As for India and Australia, neither is possible given the logistical issues involved and the massive investment of manpower required. It doesn't matter if Japan had total naval dominance in the Pacific, the IJA simply lacked the manpower and material required to take and hold India and Australia, let alone even one of the two in addition to all of mainland China.
>>
>>133765862
Except they were trying to get Japan to negotiate with the Chinese, dimwit.
>>
>>133765635
/a/ would probably blow a gasket from watching the show because the show's creators have no fucking clue how to believably depict a Japanese society.

currency failures
>HERBAL MEDICINES COST SIX YEN
>ANTIQUE .45 COLT COST 100 YEN EACH
>THE YAKUZA ARE CHARGING 50,000 RANSOM WE CAN'T POSSIBLY GET THAT MUCH MONEY

language failures
>The main female lead thanks a shopkeeper with どうもありがとう instead of ありがとうございます
>An angry Kenpeitai officer orders his men to move out with the polite and friendly 行きましょう in the middle of a raid.

culture failures
>naming an airport after the Showa Emperor's given name which the use of is a massive SHAMEFUR DISPRAY, and they wrote it in katakana too the dumbfucks
>>
>>133764456
?

>>133764502
Who said anything about "fair"? I'm talking about wrongdoing, and we've done plenty.

>>133764582
>indiscriminate bombing of population centers with little strategic/military value
>shooting surrendering enemies
>starving POWs/leaving them out to freeze to death
>looting and depredation of civilians
>no war crimes

Our rap list is sizable enough.
>>
>>133756706
Canada confirmed for world superpower capable of resisting both Japan and Germany.
>>
>>133765854
Japan had a bigger empire than most European nations, and a bigger army and navy that was allowed in the multiple treaties through the early 20th century. They had such an inferiority complex, they thought they were being specifically targeted by the West, when it was Germany that was being treated as the punching bag.
>>
Yeah, but were Americans named honorary Aryans?

Japan - 1
America - 2
>>
>>133766049
Most of that empire was water, tho.
>>
>>133751901
Germany would never have the gall to shit like this. Kind of on the wrong side of history there.
>>
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>>133757824
Not a battle buddy. Just like Vietnam wasn't officially a war, it was a conflict. Still undefeated baby.
>>
>>133765448

The embargo was implemented to get the Japanese out of French Indochina. There is little evidence that there was a conspiracy to lure Japan into attacking us.

>they explicitly ORDERED mexicans to not sell them one barrel of oil
Well yeah, that's what an embargo is. You stop selling things to someone and tell everyone to do the same.
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>>133766134
LOL
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>>133766134
If you say so.

Good ol' USA can only beat those too beaten to defend themselves or the impoverished. See: Canada.
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>>133766206
>See: Canada
>what is War of 1812?
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>>133765982
>indiscriminate bombing of population centers with little strategic/military value
The Japanese were employing the civilians to create weapons and ammo in their homes, so bombing them wasn't of little strategic/military value.
>shooting surrendering enemies
Suicide bombing and feign surrender was a typical tactic employed by the Japanese military.

Can't argue about the other two.
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>>133766280
I was talking more about Dresden.
Pretty sure Germans didn't employ such tactics.
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>>133765965
>implying /a/ knows shit about Japan
>>
>>133766321
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blitz

Sure they didn't.
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>>133765448
Or, Japan could have always given in to demands to withdraw from French Indochina and China. They still would have had one of the largest empires in history. There was no conspiracy, the Japanese government was just fucking stupid.
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>>133766280
>Can't argue about the other two.
You can, however, understand them. Japanese did exactly the opposite of ingratiating themselves to the US. Even some Nazis had better tact. See: Karl Dönitz
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>>133766321
>Pretty sure Germans didn't employ such tactics.
Are stupid?
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>>133766321
The indiscriminate bombing of Dresden was a RAF thing. The Lancaster bombers the British used did not have the surgical strike equipment of the B-17s, so they bombed at night.
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>>133766097
Yeah, and they were allowed to have the third biggest navy in the world, bigger then the French, the Italians, everyone not the USA/Britain. Hell, Germany was not even allowed a Navy until the late 1930s. What's funny is how everyone seems to think that Japan was industrial/resource starved, but the big chunks of Asia it colonized, and it's fairly large hegemony saw it rise up to being one of the leading industrial power in the world. They were paranoid through and through.
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>>133766091
We both know Adolf would of btfo nipon if he would of taken england and russia
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>>133763808
>Canada stuck with Russia
Well, at least we have Finland with us too
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>>133766321
>Pretty sure Germans didn't employ such tactics.
Really now?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Warsaw_in_World_War_II
As many civilians killed in Warsaw as in Dresden.

Oh, and the entire city was reduced to rubble 5 years later, even after the resistance surrendered, just because they were feeling vindictive.
>>
Reminder that destroying a city is different than firebombing a city after you lured all the citizens out of their bomb shelters.

Not that the ugly anglos would know.
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>>133758811
> for more than 70 years
Are you suggesting that those adults killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki would've lived to this day?
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>>133766643
Most of Japan's successes in Asia were the outcome of short-term subterfuge and taking advantage of their neighbours social and political crises, prime example in Manchuoku, which was barely a puppet state. Compare that the Britain, where the Isles alone, with a similar size and resource base, beat out Japan in industrial output by miles.

Their power was completely dwarfed and eclipsed by America and the European imperial nations in effectiveness, size, technology, industrial output, experience, colonial support and control.

They were the jobbers of the end of the imperial age.
>>
>>133766378
>>133766402
>>133766839
Pretty sure those weren't done by soldiers suicide bombing while feigning surrender.
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>>133758811

The US warned Japan before they dropped the first bomb, then asked them to surrender, then warned them before they dropped the second bomb, then asked them to surrender

War is hell man why do people pretend like the nukes were the only terrible thing that happened
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>>133766923
Reminder that WWII was a total war and that all sides attacked civilians to affect the opposing side's war effort
>anglo
I'm a southern Irish-Russian
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>>133763242
>>133763114
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantropa
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>>133759343
Japan learned so many wrong lessons from the Russo-Japanese War that they'd probably have been better off losing it.

>>133766091
Native Americans were named honorary Aryans in the hopes they'd rise up against the US Government, actually.
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>>133767452
What wrong lessons were those?
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>>133765028
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Japanese_Navy_in_World_War_II
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_in_World_War_II

Perhaps "The IJN constructed about as many destroyers as the US constructed carriers" or "The IJN total fleet was about equal to the number of US destroyers" would be better comparisons.
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>>133767253
Not only that, the military leaders attempt a coup d'etat the night before the emperor officially announce they were surrendering so they can continue fighting despite being nuked twice. They somehow managed to go beyond full retard.
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>>133767615
>naval wars can be won by winning a single huge decisive battle

>offensive factors like speed and range are more important than defensive ones like armor and damage control

>stealth and misdirection and clever battle plans count more than strength

>endurance and habitability should be cut to the bare minimum to improve combat capability.

None of these lessons were applicable in WW2.


To the Japanese, warfare was an artistic endeavor, to the USA it was a matter of industry.

To oversimplify, the Japanese thought in terms of blades (hence their obsession with very fast ships and very long range) and the Americans in terms of tools (hence their obsession with durability).

This played out in the Pacific war with US aircraft and ships frequently surviving damage that would have destroyed their Japanese counterparts twice over.

And Japan having a torpedo that's so powerful and long ranged that ships carrying them risked exploding and sinking if the torpedo room suffered even a minor hit. Like what happened when USS White Plains became the only aircraft carrier ever to win a gunfight with a heavy cruiser (with a piddly little 5 inch gun, at that)
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>>133764694
>the South Dakotas actually had a more powerful powerplant and went faster than the Preceding class

I know; read up on the development process. They could've had even more powerful engines and gone faster than what we ultimately got, but the brasshats favored spending more time/effort/money/resources on developing downgraded engines for it.
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>>133767870
>Like what happened when USS White Plains became the only aircraft carrier ever to win a gunfight with a heavy cruiser (with a piddly little 5 inch gun, at that)
Was that the expected outcome upon firing or were both sides confused as fuck after all was said and done?
>>
>Japan had contacted the Allies and offered to surrender with the aole condition that they wanted to be allowed to continue to treat the Emperor as a deity.

America refused because they wanted an unconditional surrender. So they dropped the first nuke.

Again Japan offered to surrender if they could still deify the Emperor. But America decided to drop the second bomb.

That was the reason the US used nukes - they just wanted to destroy Japan's religion. Ot's too bad tha most American's aren't even aware of that.
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>>133766279
USA has yet to enter a war where it faced an enemy that matched its production and population. And yet they still struggle.
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>>133767958
That way of thinking is what won the war though. You don't want a top of the line stuff for everything, you want mass-producable reliable stuff. There's a damn good reason why almost everyone was using Sherman's in the Western front. It was one of the few thing that actually work when they needed it to.
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>>133767996
The whole Battle off Samar was a confusing clusterfuck for both sides as the Americans used every trick in the book to try to not die against a massively superior Japanese force so it was probably an accident. Escort carriers aren't meant to be gunfighting at all.
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>>133768017

kek

That would be like germany surrendering but keeping hitleras furher...
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>>133767870
Did they ever acknowledge that a large part of why they won was because the Russian navy was a shitshow tragicomedy?
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>>133768017
The leadership wanted a negotiated settlement that left Japanese society and politics unchanged, precluded Allied occupation, and gave them full control over war trials. No concrete terms were proposed by the Japanese leadership or by unauthorized parties from Japan.
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>>133751901
Woodcut propaganda
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>>133767870
I also think that some of their geopolitical were the wrong ones as well, such as the idea that Japan was ready to take on industrial superpowers through sheer grit and determination, when as >>133765697 shows was more due to total incompetence on the part of the Russians and then Teddy Roosevelt making a timely intervention right after their decisive battle.
>>133768298
I don't think so, they instead doubled down on the Yamato Deishii/honorabu sacrifice rhetoric and started to think they could actually punch above their weight in geopolitics and should be treated like a great power instead of just getting incredibly lucky.
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>>133754015
>but no match for the American fleet mostly because of its aircraft carriers. I think in total Japan had three while America had seven or something like that.

Dude.

Japanese: Akagi, Kaga, Hiryu, Soryu, (Midway carriers,) Shoukaku and Zuikaku. Hosho was an obsolete little POS only good for training or launching scoutplanes so she doesn't count. (There was also Shōhō and Ryūjō, light carriers moderately worse than Ranger and Wasp.)

Americans: The Lexington class (Lexington, Saratoga,) and the Yorktown class (Yorktown, Enterprise and Hornet.) There was Ranger (so small and old that it was kept in the Atlantic for ground attack and convoy escort) and Wasp (which was about the same size as Ranger, 15,000 tons, and only built to use up the remaining allowed treaty tonnage. Just a light carrier at best.)

So in fleet carriers? Six Japanese to five American. Light carriers? Two versus two. Atop of that nobody considered aircraft carriers to be the real capital ship until midwar, when multiple battles had proved the point - the Japanese kept seeking their Decisive Battle with a battleship engagement and the Americans HAD to use their carriers because they had little else.

Please be trolling.
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>>133768017

Sounds very legit buddy
Like how the nazis pursued mystical objects and searched for spear of longinus

>believeing in WW2 myths
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>>133767870
Some of those attributes was good for a time. They're insane level of dedication for night fighting saw them thrash the USN in a couple of battles during 1942, before the US became their equal in 1943 with better tactics and radar.
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>>133762661
>Actually they had been in talks with Russia regarding a surrender since 1944.
What? They had Soviet–Japanese Neutrality Pact until 1946.
>>
>>133767996
>>133767870
That statement wasn't quite accurate. There were eight torpedoes were mounted on the Chokai's deck, and the White Plains's five inch gun set them off (each of them had 1080 pounds of explosive and a tank of pure oxygen), which it could not have done if they were not up on the decks because its gun was totally incapable of penetrating a heavy cruiser's armor.

The explosion knocked out Chokai's rudder and engines and took her out of the fight (so yes an escort carrier killed a heavy cruiser with a gun), but she didn't actually sink until another Japanese ship scuttled her with torpedoes.
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>>133768542
Actually, the Japanese had two more fleet carriers with the Hiyou class. The only problem was they were really, really slow to use for the fast carrier fleet.
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>>133768017
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrender_of_Japan#Japanese_reaction

>In a telegram, Shun'ichi Kase, Japan's ambassador to Switzerland, observed that "unconditional surrender" applied only to the military and not to the government or the people, and he pleaded that it should be understood that the careful language of Potsdam appeared "to have occasioned a great deal of thought" on the part of the signatory governments—"they seem to have taken pains to save face for us on various points."

> In an attempt to manage public perception, Prime Minister Suzuki met with the press, and stated: I consider the Joint Proclamation a rehash of the Declaration at the Cairo Conference. As for the Government, it does not attach any important value to it at all. The only thing to do is just kill it with silence (mokusatsu).... The meaning of mokusatsu, literally "kill with silence," can range from "ignore" to "treat with contempt"—which rather accurately described the range of reactions within the government.

I'd give you a reaction image but I'm not sure I've got one suitable for my face right now.
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>>133768469
As an addendum to this, basically Japan learned from the Russo-Japanese war that they were at the very least culturally equal (if not culturally and racially superior) to Europeans because they beat one European Great Power, ignored the fact that another Great Power had intervened in their favor to get them that, and the military saw itself as the central piece of Japanese society for getting them there. This led to the military's increased radicalization, tearing down Taisho Democracy, and then going into China which led them to their loss in WWII. Militarism had been on the rise during the entire Meiji period but had they lost the Russo-Japanese war they might have been humbled enough not to make the same assumptions that led them to think they could challenge the United States.
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>>133768620
I mean that they were in talks with Russia who could theoretically help to convince the US to accept Japan's surrender with the conditions that Japan wanted (leaving their Emperor alone).
>>
What is important is that
If the axis had won WW2, we would not have animu because Japan was a crazy nationalistic bloodlustful state back then and the atomic bombs managed to emasculate then
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>>133768966
>we would not have animu because Japan was a crazy nationalistic bloodlustful state back then
Just like modern Northern Korea, but with better economy.
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>>133768099
And conversely it's what lost Japan the war (and probably Germany too with all their crazy superweapons as well). The Yamato was the greatest battleship ever constructed, but it didn't matter when 200 planes launched from miles away could take it down. Shimakaze was one of the fastest destroyers ever, but they could only build one.
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>>133755035
My favorite jap warcrime
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>>133769040
Which brings up a good point: Would Japanese people rather live in a country like modern Japan or one like what Japan would've become if they had won?
>>
Lets break some myths here

>If america's ships were destroyed in pearl harbor america could just make more
In the time they were building the ships japan would have claimed a good deal of their objective, that is the domination of the pacific islands and a foothold in alaska.

>No one can invade america
True, but it isn't because of "muh armed redneck populace", its a logistic hell to invade another country on the other side of the ocean, specially a continent sized one

>The nukes were used to avoid further casualties
The nukes were used as a message to the soviets, japan was already looking for surrender options when the nukes dropped

>Stalin hated Hitler
Russia and Germany had a NAP , if hitler didn't have a hate boner and greediness he could have held the entire central europe and north africa territories unscathed.
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>>133765550
>m-muh victory over Tsarist Russian

That's like bragging over beating mobs of illiterate mud farmers, in fact, it IS LITERALLY bragging over beating mobs of illiterate mud farmers.

Japs got completely, utterly crushed at Manchuria. It wasn't even a contest. Use a more recent example next time.
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>>133769429

>True, but it isn't because of "muh armed redneck populace", its a logistic hell to invade another country on the other side of the ocean, specially a continent sized one

But also because of "muh armed redneck populace". The American militia would be one of the largest armies in the world.
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>>133769522
The Japanese ended insurgency in Manchuria very effectively. They weren't invaded by the Soviets until the end of the war.
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>>133769563

Watch the world largest militia scatter under the shelling of artillery and carpet bombing
Not to mention how you would organize them, no hierarchy, no chain of command, no supply lines.

This is one of the biggest myths that america has woven around themselves, yet they forget that your average joe isn't trained to deal with the stress of real war.

If it ever came to the invasion of america, this means that the army got defeated, the navy probably broken and the air force in shambles, if any country in the world could do that its not some armed joes that could beat them back
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>>133768099
Reader's comprehension. It would've taken FAR LESS to build the SUPERIOR engines than to build the downgraded engines. Besides, they "corrected" it anyway with the Iowa class. They could've saved themselves the trouble and expenses by not downgrading the engines in the first place!
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>>133769686

I mean if we are talking a hastily formed militia versus an entire military then, yeah, obviously the militia would be blown the fuck out. But it wouldn't happen in a vacuum.

Once the US government knew that the mainland was in danger of being invaded they would start training the militia themselves. You know how the green beret, CIA, and other assorted spooks goes around to other countries and trains and arms random rebels to fight insurgencies? They would do that within the US instead of abroad.

I assure you that contingency plans of this nature exist and it is nothing to scoff at.
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>>133767316
I think my biggest concern with this is what happens if the dams are destroyed and suddenly the lakes rise up 200 meters?

The waves would wreck the shit out of all the coastal cities and probably fuck everything up for a good long time.

So you're essentially pointing two large guns at the heads of all the coastal cities and going "Boy sure hope nothing pulls the trigger on this thing."
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>>133751901
>japan winning ww2

you know that's physically impossible right
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>>133769939
Why physically?
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>>133754015
You know the united states built more aircraft carriers during the war right?
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>>133769958
They did not have sufficient population to occupy and pacify China, let alone the whole West Coast of the United States on top of that.
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>>133757997
daily reminder ussr took less casualties on offense than germany did starting in 1944
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>>133751901
I live in the neutral zone, isn't that great
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>>133751901
I doubt either Japan or Germany wanted to lay foot on the American continent, they wanted imperialist control over their immediate sphere of influence.
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>>133762685
>>133762714
>>133762786
>>
>>133770288
Also occupying the US would be extremely difficult if not impossible.

Yamamoto himself said it.
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>>133770544
Definitely impossible. Even if you could control a number of large cities you would pretty much never be able to control all of it's land unless you set up an effective puppet government. Even if you did that it might not work.
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>>133767316
the map that i saw had the mediterranian FULLY drained. Even the articel states that the land caused by draining would just end up as salt flats unusable for farming.
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>>133769429
No, the "nukes as intimidation" thesis has been thoroughly debunked over and over. The Alperovitz thesis has been rejected by historians of modern Japan repeatedly. The Japanese leadership desired a negotiated peace and had not sought surrender. Those "feelers" were unauthorized personnel with no concrete surrender terms themselves.
>>
>>133770288
You're taking for granted how much people, outside of the most dedicated scholars, knew about WW2 in the early 60s when it was written.
>>
Daily reminder the united states produced more ships in 1942 than japan did the whole war.
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>>133767870
>naval wars can be won by winning a single huge decisive battle
>offensive factors like speed and range are more important than defensive ones like armor and damage control
>stealth and misdirection and clever battle plans count more than strength
>endurance and habitability should be cut to the bare minimum to improve combat capability.

It's funny how accurate this description is to anime fights.
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I hate flat
I want was born in white
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>>133771462
>bottom left caucasian nose
>beautiful
Westaboos are even more delusional than Wapanese.
>>
>>133751901
nazi party is strongly anti socialist, why the fuck would they make murica socialist?
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>>133758681
Mainly by not doing it, really.

The British Empire was largely one of trade - the world's first real megacorp. If you look at a map and it says "British Empire" with India et al coloured in the Union Jack, it's lying to you. Britain went places, made money, and if they couldn't make enough money (or people refused to make money with them) they sent in warships, murdered the obstacles, and put people in place who would make money with them.

So "British India" was largely ruled by a) Indians who were willing to make money for Britain, and b) accountants, initially from the East India Company, then later from the Foreign Office.

Of course, you can't apply a general model to the British Empire, because it largely expanded by happenstance and opportunity - there are genuinely moments in history when new chunks of territory are added, and London's response was "whoops". But that was the general rule - they ran it like an international corporation runs subsidiaries it doesn't fully understand.