How much value do you put into visual direction?

>>133735167
Some. I've dropped shows a few times because the art was really bad, but normally if the art in a show is just so-so that's okay.

Good visual style is always a huge plus for me watching something, though that doesn't necessarily have to be jacking off over sakuga and filters the entire episode.

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A lot. especially when they can balance realistic, fantasy and surreal art throughout a show.

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i like it when my cartoons looks pretty

>>133735167
How many fucking times do you need this thread? Jesus fuck.

>>133735167
Sorry to sound like a newfag, but what anime is that? looks a lot like kyoani but can't seem to find the right series.

>>133735167
I always place characters and story iver visuals. Always.

>>133735921
Tamako! Euphonium

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>>133735167
I really like images like this post more.

>>133735810
Anno was a genius.

>>133736024
Thanks bud!

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>>133736051

>>133735167
Kill yourself.

>>133736051
this looks so fucking boring

You can't polish a turd.

>>133736141
What looks exciting to you?

I think art direction is more important.

>>133736204
maybe something more than people standing and talking
sitting and talking
looking on the horizon and talking
a pictures from things that the cameras cuts to because people are talking

>>133736204
truCinematography
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYPJoA9udJo

>>133736141
That image really just has stills/scenery from the movie desu.

Is there one of these for Trust and Betrayal? I'm pretty sure I saw one before.

>>133735167
Is this all from K-On? (Haven't seen it yet, which is basically blasphemy on /a/ but please answer.)

>>133736532
Yes.

>>133736532
It's from Tamako Love Story. Same character designer as K-On but has a much cleaner look than it.

>>133736204
this right here>>133736534

>>133736578
nice, thanks

>>133736141
>One of the hypest movies of all time
>Boring

Has to be b8 or at least underageb&

>>133736051
>this lighting
>the reflections
>the chromatic aberrations
>the detailed landscapes
I have a heartboner just looking at this. Truly an amazing and poetical movie.

>>133735167
All of the value. It's the only thing that matters.

For me it goes

1. Animation quality
2. Art Direction/Character Design
3. Plot
4. Music
5. Fanservice/PLOT

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desu Shaft does it better even in comedies.

>>133736641
>HxH 99

>>133737326
It'd be better if they weren't so cheap on animation though

>>133737992
I think the direction more than makes up for it.

>>133738063
The direction is the worst part. Most of their shows are a bunch of headless monkeys trying to copypasta as many Shinbo cliches as possible. Only Bakemonogatari was consistently well directed.

Which is more of a meme at this point? Making this thread or posting some variation on ">this thread again" ITT

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>>133735167
I dunno why people always shit on Ping Pong, when it IS visually a masterpiece. Maybe the character designs are unconventional, but I seriously think it's insanely cool looking.

>>133738724
Because people liked it.

>>133738733
It can't be helped!

>>133735167
Doesn't matter when its a shit show because it'll still be shit.

>>133736051
A lot of this shit can't be handdrawn. It takes too long do such detailed backgrounds without flat out tracing.

>>133739071
how the hell did you manage to type that on a keyboard?

>>133737039
I digress.

1. Characterization
2. Art Direction/Character Design
3. Plot
4. Animation Quality
5. Music

>>133739071
I've liked a lot of shit shows just because of their atmospheres.
I wouldn't say the art direction as a whole, but the atmosphere of a show is probably the most important thing to me.

Just look at the monogatari series, most of the city background is basically empty streets, but something about it makes me feel immersed in the anime, and this goes for a lot animes. I don't know why, but I like to say that a show's atmosphere is its "soul", something that most of the time is created by accident.

>>133739071
Agreed

>>133738724
I remember this meme about ping pong being bad, good old days.

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>>133737039
1. Atmosphere (animation quality and music/sound play into this)
2. Characterization
3. Character designs
4. Plot
5. Character development

>>133735167
A good amount

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>>133736051

>>133735167
Lots. I don't really care about the story anymore. So long as it has tolerable characters and great art, I'm aboard.

>>133737039
I agree with this to an extent. E.G. I'll never watch K-on, despite it looking good in motion, because the girls look like aliens, but I watched all of Punch Line because the 3D backgrounds were really good looking.

>>133739996
Love it.

Hyouka's direction felt way more ambitious than anything else Takemoto has done.

>>133740094
What about Amagi?

>>133738377
Because Oishi is the only Shinbo disciple as talented as Shinbo. The others are catching up slowly, but in the meantime they just borrow from him.

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>>133740094
I tried making one for Star Driver too, though it's hard to find good still shots to use from all the action scenes.

>>133740052
Its anime after all, you arent reading a book or something like that. This /a/non gets it.

>>133740133
I think Amagi is probably the least ambitious in terms of visual direction. That's not necessarily bad, of course.

>>133740223
One about Tenshi No Tamago would be great.

>>133739996
I love how Hyouka slapped interesting visuals over boring exposition. If only Katanagatari could've done the same consistently.

>>133740248
dumbass

>>133740320
You will get it at some point when you grow up, just don't get too much frustrated.

>>133740311
Katanagatari was often very pretty but I agree they could have done a lot more to engage the viewer in some sequences. It had a very down-to-earth art style other than the character designs, though, so Hyouka-style diversions might have felt out-of-place.

>>133740311
Hyouka had nicer visuals easily, but the exposition itself was extremely tiring.
For some reason, I can listen to Katanagatari's exposition all day.

>>133738724
Its got an 8.7 in MAL
People love it

>>133740052
I bet this what people give as an excuse for liking Bleach and Hunter X Hunter's current arc.

>>133735167
Zero when the plot is shit. Example: every kyoani work.

>>133740399
because you're an underage iSiN faggot who has yet to watch good anime

>>133740248
Why not just look at pictures and webms if the art is most important then? I've always felt it was the combination of several elements that makes a show good, it seems silly to me to be dismissive about someone liking a different combination as if people are actually supposed to get the same thing out of any given media.

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>>133740454
>iSiN

>>133737039
I've tried making rankings like this before, but I just can't do it. I tend to like shows based on what they're good at, rather than some kind of weighed average of everything. Some shows I like just because the animation and style are great, and others I like mostly because of the plot. Etc. etc.

>>133735167
Anime is primarily a visual medium, so a lot.

>>133740437
I don't know about either of those, but that's my usual excuse for watching Shinkai, Hosoda, Kon etc. films

>>133740543
he's baiting.

>>133740466
First understand the medium then learn to appreciate it. I like what anime gives me, dont get me wrong.

>>133740556
I'm not. Good characterization and good art can't make up for an aimless plot.

>>133735709
How is this? That Rainy Town short was cute.

>>133740616
>Hunter x Hunter
>with Bleach

>>133740133
I don't remember Amagi much, was it?

>>133740223
Picked up

>>133740285
Maybe once I finally watch it I'll do one.

>>133735167
If it's a show I like then it doesn't really matter and you're just a simpleton who judges books by their covers and can't see the beauty underneath if you disagree. If it's a show I don't like then visual direction is critical and I will mercilessly criticize any flaws I can find with them, no matter how minor, because the show is SHIT.
I think I speak for everyone here.

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>>133739996
The only reason I would rewatch Hyouka is for these delights to the eye.

>>133735167
>>>/quizgag/

>>133740668
reason I would rewatch just a simpleton who judges books by their covers and can't see the beauty underneath if you disagree.I like what anime gives me If it's a show I don't like then visual direction is ut I just can't do it. I tend to like shows based on what they're good at, rather than some kind of weighed average of everything. Some shows I like just because the animation and style are great, and o nd I will mercilessly criticize any fl every kyoani work.

>>133740466
Not him, but the visuals is necessarily linked with the narrative. For example, a trippy dream sequence may be presented in a direction different from the other scenes. It's hard to appreciate that without the context.

By itself though, the webm would probably be a good piece to study.

>>133740925
I disagree

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>>133735167

Tamako Love Story is garbage. I legitimately believe that only people who have never been in any kind of relationship are capable of enjoying it.

The entire movie is one long, awkward confession. It drags in absolute nobody characters like that shy girl who Tamako befriended (seriously, who the fuck even is she?), and ends with the suggestion that Mochi-chan is going to fucking drop all of his filmmaking dreams just to fiddlefuck around making rice cakes the rest of his life.

Furthermore, it's not a fucking love story. The only reason that he and Tamako should get together is shoehorned in (hurrr muh mommas funeral) at the last minute. Other than that, they're just friends, and rather than actually have them complete a story arc that involves actual dating of any kind, the movie prefers instead to fucking dick around with WILL SHE?? WON'T SHE?? bullshit all the way until the very end.

For whatever reason, the showrunners decided to recycle the garbage SHES SECRETLY A PRINCESS plotline that they were smart enough to drop into a SHES SECRETLY IN LOVE abortion. Seriously, there's nothing different about the movie's plot to the dragged out, nonsensical decision Tamako makes about not being some random brown guy's bride in the series, except this time the overwhelmingly obvious fucking answer is yes, of course she's going to get with the self-insert because the movie needs to pander hard as it fucking can after the overall flop the series was.

If you actually enjoyed TLS, then you were pandered to, and it worked. You have little concept of what constitutes a compelling narrative within film. You stared at pretty flashing colors and random moe-pig perversions until the point when KyoAni gave you exactly what they knew you were too stupid to not want, at which point in time you loudly started clapping your hands and sobbing uncontrollably, you fucking philistine pieces of shit. Just like TLS, you are literal garbage that belongs in the fucking trash.

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>>133740223
Last one I made, I was just trying to get shots that looked different than the usual so it's not that great.

>>133740991
Thanks doc

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>>133740991
Can we just talk for a second about how great and cute Kanna is?

>>133741013
It's pretty.

>>133740991
Is this pasta or are you really this mad?

>>133741013
>those colours
Bake really was on another level compared to it sequels.

>>133741013
I miss this kind of stuff in the later seasons. Yeah, I know a lot of it is pointless and disconnected from the narrative but a lot of it is actually meaningful and, fuck it, it looks great.

>>133741091
It's pasta.

>>133741013
Worst thing about Oishi not directing the rest of the series is Oishi not directing the rest of the series

Best thing is Itamura getting to improve though.

>>133741200
>what is Kizumonogatari

retard

>>133741200
Yeah, Hana, Tsuki, and Owari have all been a big step up from Lensflaremonogatari Second Season. Probably related to budget, too.

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>>133741262
>Tsuki

>>133741320
It was aight.

>>133741262
Too bad all of the installments after Nise have got nearly jack shit for good animation.

>>133741260
What are you even mad about? I already know he's doing Kizu.

>>133741262
Hopefully he'll be able to show off in Prism Nana too.

These threads are always fun.

>inb4 anti-KyoAnifags

>>133741074

So she's cute, and she likes carpentry. Tell me literally anything else about her or KyoAnus is shit at development (at least within this series).

>>133741149

Oh I'm mad.

>>133736652
>haruhi
>hype
You wot?

>>133741389
Yea I think that's the most disappointing thing about Monogatari lately. Nise was like SHAFT's high point in terms of animation and now they only have sparse sakuga in Nisekoi.

>>133741389
>>133741490
I was really hopeful for the current arc since it has several action sequences, but the first episode was not a good sign.

>>133741446
>Tell me literally anything else about her
She pays a lot of attention to their friends' feelings even though she seems so disconnected.

>>133741013
I was about to go make one of these out of Casshern Sins only to realize I deleted it when I ran out of storage space a while ago. I'm fucking retarded.
Guess I'll have to redownload it now. I'm sure it had some pretty spectacular looking shots.

>>133741546

I would argue that point. She's interested (inexplicably) in becoming president of the club, except she's scared of heights over 4 feet.

There, we've described the entirety of her character. She's shit, and you're worse. Into the trash you both go.

>>133741617
>I would argue that point. She's interested (inexplicably) in becoming president of the club, except she's scared of heights over 4 feet.
How is this even remotely related to the attention she pays to her friends? She could tell Midori was gay from a mile away just by seeing how she acted around Tamako, and she also knew how she was feeling in the film even though Midori's so secretive and acts so tough about it.

>>133741617
Were you hurt by somebody like her?

>>133741617
>She's interested (inexplicably) in becoming president of the club, except she's scared of heights over 4 feet.
>except
Besides, how are these supposed to be mutually exclusive at all? She wants to be the club president because she's passionate about it (we know she can be very passionate about things because we know how she feels about carpentry) and she has an irrational fear. You're just grasping at straws.

>>133741588
How many do you have, OP?

>>133741694

I think you're reading too much into the show, unless you can show me literally anything conclusive that states otherwise.

>>133741697

No, anon, I don't take chinese cartoons seriously, so my personal feelings have nothing to do with my understanding of what makes a compelling fictional character. Maybe you should take a break from anime for a while.

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There was at least one episode of Kill la Kill with great visual direction

>>133741813
I'm not him, I just felt like giving it a shot. Did he even make all of those? I thought people made things like them before he did.

>>133741846
I don't know. I just assumed he collected a lot so I was gonna ask for a zip.

>>133741822
>unless you can show me literally anything conclusive that states otherwise.
I get it. You're testing me to see how mad I'll get if you act this stupid. The evidence is in the show, I bet you didn't even watch it and are just shitposting. Don't expect more responses from me.

>>133741825
I remember seeing somewhere that somebody talented worked on this episode, but I don't remember where or whom.

>>133741768

>gasping at straws

Let's state right now: she wants to be president, and she was scared by being higher than 4 feet or so.

>mutually exclusive

You don't seem to understand what that phrase means. They are, of course, mutually exclusive, despite your complete inability to comprehend the concept of mutual exclusivity.

The point is that they are the only two personality traits we're given. Whether or not they interact with one another is irrelevant to this discussion (if you can call spitting truth at waifulords discussion).

>>133741917

I did watch it, which is why I'm frustrated with the direction of the show. K-On was great, and I felt Tamako was a poor followup. The "evidence" in the show is exactly what I stated (carpenter, president, heights, nothing else) and this bothers me as someone who takes interest in actual character development.

For shits and giggles, tell me what Shiori did for the plot after an entire episode of a single cour show was spent making friends with the MC. Anything?

>>133741930
K-On!'s director.

>>133742024
>for the plot
there's your next mistake
this is SoL, things don't have to "do" anything for the plot

>>133741617
You dont need stories you idiot, you just need gaps of real existence and the way its tell is as important as the representation. Bits of rapture.

>>133742078
nice bait

>>133741825
Is that Yuzuru Tachikawa's episode?

>>133741822
Are you capable of reading body language or understanding visual cues?

>>133742120
Are you fucking retarded?

>>133742078

I understand what good SOL is. It develops the characters together, as well as independently of one another. I'm not some DBZ faggot whining about SOL, and I imagine I've seen as much SOL anime as you have. Don't think for a second you're talking to someone beneath you, because your taste is shit and you worship a literal turd.

>>133742090

Please learn to speak english and then message me so that we can continue.

>>133742149

>Are you capable of reading body language

Absolutely, I pride myself on it. Please describe how this fits into the discussion.

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>>133742165
>you worship a literal turd.
when did I worship anything at all?

>>133742149
Come on, the guy exudes autism, you don't even have to ask.

>>133742159
Easy there, how does a question like that make you act like you have a stick up your ass?

>>133736534
Watching '99 now, holy FUCK is the tone ever better than '11.

>>133742165
This is why you feel so alone.

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>>133742266

Sorry, it's hyperbolic in nature to describe your dedication to a shitty example of eastern media.

We were having a good thread, pls ignore autismo

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>>133742349

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This was probably one of my least favorite episodes but at least it looked and sounded nice.

>>133742407
Rie Matsumoto is wasted at Bones.

>>133742348
I'm glad that '11 goes through all the later arcs and I can appreciate that it never looks absolutely awful, but it's really visually boring compared to '99 with the exception of some climactic scenes.

Good visuals are the difference between many average series and good series. It's something that really stands out.

However, good visuals cannot save mediocre anime. Well, maybe it can if we're talking Redline levels.

Visual direction is only one part of it. Anime is a visual medium, and thus it needs direction just like any other movie.

>>133742502
nice bait

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>>133742407
Nice Seventh Seal homage too.

>>133742519
see
>>133740991

>>133742532
>Seventh Seal created chess

retard

>>133742538
see
>>133742519

>>133742466
Where should she go?

>>133742608
Should've stayed at Toei to direct something good like, you know, Precure.

>>133742653
b8

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>>133742487
Yeah, don't get me wrong, I really liked '11. I think it's a good show, for the most part. But damn it can't even compare to what '99 does, visually.

For example, compare this:

>>133742562
The Don is dressed exactly like Death and given the same placement, dummy.

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>>133742670
To this:

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The best

>>133742670
>>133742711
top looks better

>>133742670
The meh visuals combined with the awful sound direction made me drop it.

>>133742120
No, Tachikawa did ep 7. Ep 5 was directed by Hiroshi Kobayashi.

>>133742800
Is that supposed to be impressive?

>>133742728
L O L

>>133742728
I 100% disagree, the purple vomit is super off-putting, and that fight was thematically so much better in '99. This was the scene that really sold me on the old version.

>>133742758
I had bigger problems with its pacing when I watched it. Visual-wise I appreciate that they were able to maintain good animation quality throughout, but in general I'd agree the character designs, colours and such were kinda poor.

>>133742758
>rainbow and neuro director
dropped before it even aired senpai

>>133742800
That's pretty garbage.

Where's the Rolling Girls screenshots? Dickheads

>>133742800
What's impressive about that

>>133737039
1. Music/Atmosphere
2. Characterization
3. Plot
4. Animation quality

>>133742466
I think that was one of the only two episodes she didn't storyboard, at least according to nip twitter so who knows if it's accurate. Nice shitpost, by the way.

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>>133742800
While there are instances where '11 looks nice, that pic's pretty sterile looking.

>>133742988
Best example of a show that couldn't be saved by its visual direction.

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>>133743106
99fags are deluded. Madhouse had to stretch budget but 11's highlights are much better looking.

>>133739996
I'm not a fan of Hyouka content wise, but I admit that the visuals are one, if not the, best I've ever seen.

>>133743134
Not that that particular shot looks bad at all, but I can't see '11 as anything but a full on downgrade in every aspect but content covered.

>>133742862
Not him but I think the best thing about it was keeping the quality of the art so consistently well drawn

I felt that it was lacking a lot though, felt very boring to watch due to the pacing, unimaginative direction, and colors.

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A lot. Visual direction is the difference between if I'm going to constantly pause a show and go on /a/ or marathon a show in one sitting.

>>133743224
Yeah I agree on every point. It felt like they sacrificed the original's tone in favour of like, broadening the audience maybe? I'm not sure what they were going for. Maybe just blame sterile modern anime colours.

>>133743069
Animation quality can play into atmosphere. You can't have a serious tone if the animation is laughably bad, it's immersion breaking.

>>133741389
Monogatari has never had good, consistent animation while airing

>>133743298
>sacrificed the original's tone
They adapted the manga's tone.

>>133743315
>You can't have a serious tone if the animation is laughably bad, it's immersion breaking.
This is the problem I had with Aria. The animation wasn't bad, but very dated compared to modern SoLs and I found it hard to feel immersed.
I haven't made it to Origination yet though

>>133743134
This and the episode where the king's servants nurtured him back to life were the only good ones, it felt like someone in the studio actually had a vision for what they wanted to do, all the other episodes felt very uninspired to me. It was like they never stopped directing a little kids show even when the events on-screen became too gruesome to keep on a day time-slot, it created a a dissonance in the show. Pre-teens would have been a better audience than elementary schoolers, and they must have known the direction the story would go so I'm still baffled by that decision.

>>133743298
They can do nice colors though. Hanayamata is from the same studio and it doesn't look dull.

>>133735709
Hinata is probably a better example since the animation is less good and it uses a lot of CG to great effect to allow for dynamic camera movements while still looking like anime and without look like shit.

>>133743413
>Hanayamata
I didn't like the overuse of purple and bloom.

Anyway, it really depends on the director.

>>133743410
>muh gore

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FACT: YKK does visual direction correctly.

>>133742466
fuck off tamerlane no one cares what you think

>>133739823
Literally a pleb.

>>133743368
I haven't actually read it so I can't comment. I just didn't want to assume that '99 had captured the manga's tone when I have no fucking clue what it actually is. If that's so, then awesome.

>>133743413
Madhouse is super diverse and has plenty of good looking shows, but also plenty of bland ones. Tatami Galaxy, for example, is one of my favourite shows. It looks fucking sweet. And then there's currently airing OPM which suffers from terrible backgrounds and colours (it more than makes up for it in other places though).

>>133743516
If I wanted a good story I'd read a book, m8.

>>133743464
Am I forgetting something? Were the Werefin and King's re-birth episodes especially gore heavy? They were good because they had more thought put into the visuals and execution which most of the episodes didn't.

>>133743550
If I wanted good animation I'd watch western cartoons.

There is no such thing as "visual direction" you stupid knuckle draggers. How fucking hard is it to skim an e-book on cinematrography or illustration or photography or basic art and aesthetics? Fuck even a cursory wiki search would serve to add some actual content to these threads. How many times do you retards have to jump through these same hoops before you start to learn?

>>133743534
To clarify I was saying that '11 adapted the manga's tone; '99 was a poor adaptation.

>>133743315
Not him, but I partially agree.
Atmosphere is basically a "byproduct" of all the other elements (animation, sound, music, characters behavior, world construction, general direction, etc) combined. If one of these elements is weak, the final atmosphere will be weaker, but it doesn't necessarily it will be bad, if the all the other elements make up for it, something good can come out of it.

>>133743550
>muh comfy garbage

Please do read one and educate yourself.

>>133743583
Oh okay. Well, in terms of the shows themselves, '99 is much better. That's a shame to hear about the manga.

>>133743388
>but very dated
For me that's what contributes to my fondness of Aria. Just like >>133743488 Aria's atmosphere has a greater feeling of nostalgia because it's older.

>>133743581
You mean American. And even then, most of those are animated like shit outside of theatrical cartoons.

>>133743625
Visually, you mean? Because 2011 is the much better show. Cliches and derivative plot/characters, inconsistent characterizations, cheap fillers, hammy soap opera-ish angst, cheap abuse of asspulls - a lot of these are what 1999 adaptation is guilty of.

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>>133742670
This. Though 11' has a FAR better score, by several miles. Plus a few of the VA's are much better, Netero is perfect (till rip) as is Hisoka and Killua at least doesn't sound like a girl. The thing I'm liking the most watching 99' now myself is the filler surprisingly enough, I think the thing Togashi is the worst at is making his worlds feel lived in and believable and the filler actually accomplishes this to some extent.

>>133743625
Nah, it didn't really capture the manga's tone. The manga is more of a middle ground between the two. Not as solemn as 99 but not as cheery as 11.

>>133743721
I think it's better everywhere, feel free to give examples though.

>>133743488
It's definitely gorgeous but I can't help but feel that it wouldn't look that great if it were colored digitally. I still like modern anime but I miss that lusher look.

>>133741320
Shut up nerd. It was great. Awa awa.

yet another thread spammed by the old hxh debate

>>133743753
I actually like '99s score more. I really liked '11s too, and they're both good, but I prefer the feeling '99 gives. I can't remember the '11 VAs well but I remember having no problems with them.

>>133743765
I'll read it one of these days, I swear. I loved the hell out of the show so I honestly have no excuses for being a filthy secondary at this point.

>>133743753
The filler is what made '99 unwatchable garbage.

You fags all got trolled

>>133743909
seems pretty civil desu

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>>133743799
There's just different feelings you get when watching digital or cel animation.

>>133743926
If you do read it, the redraws are on BBT.

>>133743926
>I actually like '99s score more.
Maybe because you watched it first. It's literally some of the most bland shit I have ever heard tbqh. Also I meant 11' had a few better VA's then 99'.

>>133743981
still a good chuck of the thread tho

>>133743940
Is it that hard for you to skip episodes? I'm sure you weren't watching it when it aired, so you don't have a right to complain about that.

>>133743926
>but I prefer the feeling '99 gives.
it's called nostalgia

>>133741825
Episodes 6 and 7 also stood out, composition-wise, iirc.

>>133743998
Grrr Birdy.
I loved that OVA, the modern version is such fucking trash in comparison.

>>133744023
I watched 2011 first!

>>133744043
Nigger I ain't even finished it.

>>133744008
I'll probably buy official translations, I like turning pages.

>>133744038
You can't skip them. They altered canon content with really bad filler.

99: Gon felt victimized and losing his shit in dramatized fashion after being punch by Hisoka.
Manga/2011: Gon sulked in silent for his bruised ego, a much more dignified character.

99: Gon won't lie and cheat (didn't steal Ponzu's badge, thus omitted his /sneaky nature)
Manga/2011: Gon displayed his bargaining skills and sneaky nature by stealing Ponzu's badge.

The latter characterization is one that'd impressed Killua and other people who met Gon and get awestruck by his lack of morality but charismatic nature.

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>>133744061
Really? I think it was one of the remakes that actually did the original some justice.

>>133744158
Can't stand how modern Birdy looks. Fantastic animation tho

>>133744061
I don't understand how people can praise the animation in Decode when it's so sloppy. A lot of the so-called "sakuga" in the show tries to have fluid movement at the expense of good drawings and come across as being amateur work in the end.

>>133743753
>11' has a FAR better score
I don't hate '11 but it has one of the worst soundtracks I've ever heard. Probably it's second biggest detriment. '11 has mostly better voice actors, especially Megumi Han who really impressed, but Hisoka and Leoreo are much worse.
>>133743940
>The filler is what made '99 unwatchable garbage.
There was definitely some pretty awful filler but it was usually skippable and it also had Hisoka and Tonpa as room mates once which is a more entertaining premise than anything Togashi ever cooked up.

There are actual people living right now who think that the retard who handled sound direction for Hunter x Hunter and Kiseijuu did anything more than a piss-poor job?

>>133744361
Oh God, don't remind me.

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>mfw I never watched HxH
And at this point I really don't give a fuck

>>133744329
>it was usually skippable
No it wasn't. Furuhashi is infamous for shitting over every manga he adapts.

1999 series
Killua started out angsyru, cold and distant from Gon (Gon introduced himself first) and didn't know the concept of friendship. His edgy expression screaming "he is a killer" is Naruto-tier writing.
Manga/2011
Killua is a cheerful and normal appearing, came to say hi to Gon and introduce himself. No one can tell Killua has issues at first (Leorio thought he's just some spoiled brat) and Gon commented on how Killua doesn't look like a killer at all.

Those are two VERY different starting characterizations. 1999 took the cliche "emo" portrayal, while in the manga/2011, Killua's nature only appeared in glimpses where it needs to be. There's NO learning curve for Killua in '99, reducing the impact of his development.

>>133744481
It's a blast, both versions.

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>>133744481
Watch it desu senpai

>>133744563
>>133744610
I don't know, from the discussions I'm seeing in here I got the impression that both of them are shit.

But I guess you faggots are just shitposting to piss off the other part.

>>133744692
Here's your reply.

>>133744692
1999 version is more relevant to the thread.

>>133744692
The fact that people are arguing over it just means people really liked it.

I watched HxH 99 twice and it was fun both times.
I watched 2011 once and I was already complaining back in 2011 in threads on the first couple episodes.
It was shit from the start, compared to 99, and it stayed pretty shitty until the end. Parts of election arc were good, and I think the episode where Gon kills Neferpitou was good, but the rest was pretty crap/worse than 99. But it follows the manga closely, so secondaries of course will think it is good, since they don't even realize that it ruins several parts of the manga (because even with a copy-paste job, they manage to fuck up important scenes).

>>133743488
This feels more visually pleasing because it gives that more down to earth tone you find in movies.

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>>133744732
I disagree.

>>133744780
And even if 99 diverges from the manga, at least it does so with a vision, not with HURR DE DURR, LET'S CUT OUT KAITO BECAUSE IT TAKES TOO LONG

>>133743488
I'm scared of watching it because the manga is really special to me. Beautiful colours though, pastels are my favourite.

>>133744807
99 had obnoxious filler that completely screwed with the characterization and destroyed the eccentric tone by turning everything into a soap opera claustrophobic shit.

Non-stealing, flawless Leorio-helping Gon, emo morality-tormented Killua were no "vision", they
were just lazy writing. Perhaps Furuhashi should write his own series instead of crapping on Togashi's.

Madhouse has a better understanding and love for the source material.

>>133744860
Are you done copypasting bullshit from past HxH threads?

>>133743488
I never knew that had an anime adaptation.

>>133744860
yeah, cutting out a bunch of the beginning (because fuck introducing characters), censoring the whole first arc, completely ruining the palace invasion and failing to convey character motivations is evident of a "better understanding and love for the source material"

no one can be this delusional (if they read the manga).

The best part is the epic maymay of "the anime looks better because of Togashi's unfinished pages" that leddit loves

It depends on the show really

I like a show to have a consistent tone, so visual direction as a part of that is pretty important. But I don't really have preferred styles or anything.

>>133744692
Are you retarded?

>>133744499
'99 making Killua needlessly angsty when the point was that he didn't even realize how shit his life was until he met Gon was one of my biggest issues with '99. But I still think '99 is vastly superior in almost every aspect, and '11's positives are not nearly as numerous as its negatives. Weirdly enough, the series flipped how they handled the Zoldycks, '99 made their scenes somewhat humorous and gave them an Addam's Family vibe while '11 made them too serious and it fell flat for me when his mom looks like fucking robo-Merry Poppins.

I don't really know what "visual direction" means exactly, but good visuals are incredibly important to me.

>>133744995
11 is an accurate adaptation of Togashi's writing, which is what people are getting into HxH for. If you want good visuals there are plenty of series doing it better than '99.

>>133745037
>accurate
It's like copypasting the words and misinterpreting every two sentences

>>133742407
This episode was pure gold

>>133745074
here's your reply, 99fag.

>>133745037
Togashi's writing isn't very good though. It's two different flavors of shit, but at least '99 can build up an atmosphere.

>>133745037
It's not accurate, there are even story alterations.

Visuals are almost everything.

I really enjoy shows that are original in their art direction. Mononoke (not hime) was a treat.

>>133745127
kek

>>133745006
The term "visual direction" doesn't actually exists inside this "visual media" context. What OP probably meant to say was "art direction".

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>>133745127
>Togashi's writing isn't very good though.
Oh boy here we go

Huh, I'm surprised somebody who likes HxH11 is even interested in this thread. Or was it just to derail?

>>133741013
I fucking love the spaghetti Araragi.

I don't know why, but I never saw an anime where spaghetti flowed from the mc's head

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>>133745249

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>>133740484
International Securities Identification Number

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>>133745273
Spaghetti Araragi was in classic SZS style. I miss these OPs.

>>133745412
I gotta get around to finishing that.

It was one of shaft's best.

>>133745412
SZS has some of the best openings ever. So fucking good.

>>133745466
Thank Gekidan Inu Curry for that, I fucking love those two. I kind of wish more studios than just shaft started hiring them.

>>133745249
Someone posted a collage of Ant arc shots in one of these threads, all of which were standard center shots.

Someone wasted their time putting that together in an attempt to impress.

>>133745554
They did the labyrinths for Madoka too, right? They mesh really well with SHAFT's style but I agree they could probably work well with other studios too.

>>133745577
I remember that, it was embarrassing. To be fair though, the ant arc did start to explore art direction more than the previous arcs and I remember someone putting together a collage that looked decent while it was airing. It can't save the mediocre direction and questionable color choices though.

>>133745794
Is there a 99 collage somewhere? I saw the one in the thread but it's one scene.

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>>133735167
A great deal more than most people think. Competent and artistically coherent visual direction can really make a huge difference and add a lot. It's one of the most powerful tools a studio has in making their work. KyoAni in particular has a fantastic eye for lighting and camerawork, plus building atmosphere and detail through their visual direction alone. Hyouka's festival arc is one of the most well directed in all of anime, they absolutely nail the festival atmosphere and really make it feel busy and energetic and exciting and full of life. It really feels immersive and real, like you're actually there and there is a whole world in the background with things going on that have nothing to do with the small slice that is related to the main story and characters. It's actually incredible and I feel like a lot of people don't fully appreciate the artistic skill involved.

>>133745831
There's still execution though. What may work for one thing may not necessarily work for another.

>>133745936
I'm not a fan of Hyouka content wise, but I admit that the visuals are one, if not the, best I've ever seen.

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What does visual direction mean?

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I tried to go through the first Tsuioku-hen OVA and find shots I thought were cool.

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>>133746016

>>133746031
That looks like shit.

>>133735167
It's a visual medium, so it's the most important factor. The fewer words you use to tell your story, the better it will be.

>>133746062
Why? I think a bunch of those shots look sweet.

>>133746154
Does that mean Tatami Galaxy is shit?

>>133746031
Been meaning to watch this eventually. I never watched the kenshin anime but I read the manga and noticed how different in tone this was.

>>133746235
Same director as HxH '99. He loves to make everything melodramatic and edgy.

>>133746031
Damn, those look nice.

Rotoscope is the only way to go.

>>133746235
It's the only Kenshin anything I've seen or read, and I absolutely love it. Mostly for the visuals, but the story is nice and simple too.

>>133746366
Manga is better.

>>133746324
Sounds like an entertaining contrast to the manga then.

>>133746225
I haven't seen it, sorry.
But when you're dealing with something as intensely visual as animation, no tool is more effective at telling a story than the image. Relying on dialogue to tell the story is bad.

>>133746588
What are some good anime that do this?

>>133746588
I don't think it's inherently bad, although I see where you're coming from. Do watch Tatami Galaxy.

>>133744228
>sloppy
I can't say you're completely wrong, but you need to get how Ryouchimo does action. Look at two other series where his mark is clear: Noein and Yozakura Quartet Hana. He ignores the typical crisp on-model action of anime, stretching and blurring the action to give a sense of force and speed. While it's "sloppy" in avoiding precise motion, there's a deliberate choice of style over realism.

>>133746225
As a story? Hell no.
As an animation? Not shit, but a poor medium choice.

>>133746638
I hate Yuasa so there's no way I'll ever be able to appreciate the Tatami Galaxy anime or anything else by him.

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Soon Shaft will release a high budget magical girls series.

>>133746588
I really don't agree with this, it's far too limiting on an entire medium.

Sometimes the visuals can enhance the dialogue in ways that books can't, which is a perfectly valid way of using the visual capability of anime/film without making a fundamentally visual creation.

>>133746709
I'll just chalk it up to bad taste then!

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>>133746716
>yfw it ends up being a slideshow

>>133746753
Show, don't tell.

>>133746637
Millennium Actress is what first comes to mind. While the audio alone is basically an interview, having the visuals show the actress in the roles discussed gives the viewer an insider's perspective on what the actress and interviewer are thinking. What is shown is an irremovable part of the whole experience.

>>133746769
Not all dialogue is equal though, there's a difference between having a bullet point of plot points explained and having the story told naturally through dialogue

You're being far too limiting

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>>133746753
Dialogue is not inherently bad. I'm not saying that the quality goes down for every word said.
But look at something like Barry Lyndon: while there is a narrator (since it was based on a book), the most important parts of the film are without words, and shown, because it's much more powerful. You can say that Barry's ruining his life with alcohol and depression, but it's not nearly as powerful as showing him in the throes of it. Dialogue as storytelling is inherently weaker than the image.

>>133746824
Oh man, body language and facial expressions are so important in a visual medium. The fact that grunts, sighs, and gasps are frequently used in place of them is annoying.

>>133744904
OVAs

>>133746880
As an addendum:
When looking at this picture, you, the viewer, come to realize things yourself. You see everything in the frame as it was meticulously placed there:
The fallen over chair, the empty, strewn bottles, Barry's posture, the others, all add up to tell more in one frame than dialogue could in scenes.

>>133746880
How would you communicate, for example, somebody ruining his life from alcoholism but being in denial about it with his friends and family, and believing his condition is normal?

It's very important to me. LoGH is one of the few anime that /a/ praises but I couldn't watch it because the artstyle was not moe.

>>133746936
What I find funny a lot of times is that the mise en scene in some of the movies are like that out of pure luck. Not every big director is as meticulous as Stanley Kubrick.

>>133746994
Everything in the frame is intentional. If it wasn't supposed to be there, it would not be there.

>>133746907
A lot of it comes down to the majority of high-profile anime being adapted from manga or LN. LNs rely on dialogue more than actions, and manga on stills more than motion. So you have a propensity for dramatic posing with soul-filled monologues, rather than emotions playing across a face with a change in posture.

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>>133746753
This anon is correct. The aim should always be to use all the tools at your disposal in a way that works together to create a cohesive product; Not just visuals, that includes the story and the dialogue too, as well as music, theme, and other things. All of them together enhance each other to build a more powerful overall atmosphere. Like take Hyouka, it isn't as great as it is just because the visual are good. What puts it above and beyond is the way the art and music and stories and characters and the themes presented all compliment each other perfectly. The art enhances the dialogue and storytelling, it matches the themes and tone of the series, it's great in it's own right as well, and it itself is enhanced by the classical music score just as much. But in a vacuum it wouldn't stand up nearly as well. Or Bakemonogatari. All the elements on their own are weak, but together they form a really well developed package. The stories are silly, but the way they are presented though the visuals and direction make them interesting, the exposition and dialogue is way longer than it needs to be and pretty LN-tier, but the fun way Shaft uses the visuals to compliment the characters talking and further the quirky tone of the series through the art makes them enjoyable to listen to, and the animation quality itself is low-budget and pretty slideshow-tier and filled with cg, but it matches so well with the rest of the series elements that it just works, way better than any of the later seasons despite higher technical quality in Nise.

>>133746880
Barry Lyndon is pretty mediocre outside of its outstanding visual quality though

>>133747024
That's not always the case. I've read in some movies where the director notices things that are brilliant during or after filming. Live action filming is more unpredictable compared to animating.

>>133746938
Not him, but I would do the classic bar setting where the drunk guy tries to stand straight and does some patting on the back gestures to his friends. Or maybe something like Old Boy's opening scene. It doesn't have to be restricted to one scene either.

>>133746880
You could just as easily convey those things using dialogue too though. Not by saying "Oh I'm so sad and drunk all the time" but by using the way a character speaks and the words they choose to say things that they don't.

Again, you're oversimplifying the uses that dialogue can have.

Anyone has screenshots of Denpa Teki na Kanojo? I thought some of the shots were unique, especially how the screen is split when 2 characters were talking to each other.

>>133747099
Sometimes stuff is just there so that the set feels claustrophobic, the stuff itself doesn't matter but the fact that its there does.

>>133747056
This is why I see video games as incredibly hard medium to create for because not only do you have to do visuals, themes, tones, music, and all that stuff like in cartoons and anime, but you also have to factor in player interaction and all the kinks that come with it.

>>133746938
Walk through a day's highlights.

Show them waking up with a swig of liquor, clearing the previous night's bottles to make room for breakfast, pulling a bottle of hangover medicine from a large stock - never losing the glum squint they woke up with. As soon as they walk out the door, they're suddenly smiling happily, and go through the day with that pulled expression. During lunch, they steal down a flask they'd secretly brought along. Etc.

It shows more than a moment, but a lifestyle.

>>133747168
You made me look for it on my HD and now I'm sad I don't have it anymore.

>>133747194
The problem with video games is that those things are all considered less important then gameplay. So rather than an experience with a different dimension added you get a watered down experience that serves as a background to the actual experience.

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>>133747048
Also it's much more difficult and expensive to portray subtle body language and facial expression in animation than live action, since the actors will automatically fill in all those little details if they're good. In animation you actually have to do a lot of subtle changes in a lot more frames rather than keeping they characters still aside from mouths and blinking or basic movements. KyoAni is one of the only studios that really does this well and it does show. Hibike wouldn't have been nearly as good if another studio animated it because of that.

>>133747207
It's pretty heavy handed though, you could convey it in a manner that gives more of an insight into how the character can be in denial.

>>133747157
I shouldn't say all dialogue is terrible. I just that it's so often used to expose things because it's easier. You're right, dialogue can be used to great effect when used judiciously and with talent. Some of my favorite movies have very well written dialogue that fit in with the story they're telling, and it's a component of storytelling that has to be used with other factors to create a truly good final product. But the image tells a story that's more concise, more effective, realer, and feels less like a story is being directly told to you. The final shot of The Godfather, where the door closes between Micheal and Kay, serves to perfectly show the fact that Micheal's transition to evil, black hearted Don is complete, by the literal shutting of her out, and it does so in just seconds.

>>133747247
Well, of course. But it all boils down to execution and whether it works or not. All the things have to work together in harmony to create an incredible product and gameplay is just part of the equation.

>>133747194
Player interaction really fucks up artistic potential. I don't think video games are a lost cause, far from it, but they're super immature.

>>133747207
Is that necessarily more effective than, for example, a single conversation with his mother, with increasing tension in her voice when certain topics come up, and the alcoholic acting dismissive and unworried in these moments? In fact, his alcoholism could be communicated without actually showing him drinking a single time in this way.

>>133747301
>heavy-handed
I did give an exaggerated case. Moderate it, and it can be as major or minor as you want.

>>133747314
My point is really that film and anime aren't purely visual mediums and that dialogue, audio and visuals can (and should) all be used together.

If dialogue wasn't important we would have a lot more silent films than we do

>>133747314
Of course it all depends on what the dialogue is being used for. A lot of anime nowadays consists of light novel adaptations, which almost always favor exposition dumps instead of actual dialogue in order to get ideas across.

>>133747338
>I don't think video games are a lost cause, far from it, but they're super immature.
I think we can already tell just by what people write about when it concerns video games. I'd like to think the same process was going on back in the 20s and 30s with film but at a much faster pace.

>>133747338
I think that video games are very suitable for non-verbal storytelling. Like, a game can give you a world to explore and interact with, and you can take in that world and figure out the story being told by that world without the game having to actually tell you it. Of course, verbal or written storytelling can also supplement it and provide a more detailed underpinning to flesh out the world as well. Of course, not everyone is going to come away with the same story, but that could also be the point.

>>133747361
Maybe he drinks moderately, but the mother is staunchly opposed to drinking. Showing the objective truth of his life lets the viewer see the situation without the lens of another character's personality.

And it's certainly more effective when it comes to translating the story between audiences.

>>133742064
What?

>>133747426
Films had more artistic merit than video games do well before the 20s

>>133747524
It's off topic so I won't go too deep into it, but they're in a weird place. The "video" stuff is already an established art and the "game" part semantically isn't art, therefore it's a matter of applying the "game", the interactivity, in a way that enhances but never detracts from the rest. Games like the Souls series, or Ico (examples of the top of my head) are great at visual storytelling, but a problem can occur when, for example, the player gets stuck on a certain puzzle or something. The interactivity then pulls you out of the art part. Same kinda thing could happen when the player wants to go around trying to break stuff rather than play they game as it was meant to be played. I don't think these elements are "necessarily" opposed to each other, but right now I see more conflict between artistic and game aspects than synthesis. Interesting topic though.

>>133747561
But showing the objective truth can be less compelling than showing the difference in perspective between characters. In fact, it can be used to set up a daily highlight scene showing his habits. The impact is strengthened by the fact that his perspective is shown to be so skewed from reality.

>>133747361
In your example, I feel that the topic gets reduced in importance. I mean, you can replace it with any other vice (smoking, whoring, etc.) and it will still carry the same weight.

>>133747367
Your exaggerated case is basically the visual equivalent of poorly written dialogue that says everything in plain language

>>133747948
But the dialogue can point to serious problems in his life caused by his alcoholism. And maybe, in this case, it's not the specific vice that's the problem but rather his addictive personality and ability to rationalize the consequences? Maybe alcoholism is just a way that his destructive mindset is being expressed? This kind of subtlety is probably more effectively communicated through dialogue.

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You can find good visuals in pretty much every single piece of animation.

>>133747168
For some reason I've always liked this shot.

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>>133741013
It's no bake, but Hana has some great visuals.

>>133748301
Looks cheap.

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>>133748335
You're right, actually. I think the colors are good though.

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>>133748415

>>133748049
I see. Well, if it's not alcoholism per se, but the ability to rationalize a negative behavior, I would probably juxtapose positive consequences with negative ones.

For example, a meek husband goes home drunk despite the promise not to drink. He finds his wife hassled by a loan shark, gets the courage to confront the loan shark, but gets reprimanded by his wife for drinking in spite of the manly act enabled by alcohol.

In any case, I'm not against dialogue itself. It's when it becomes the sole vehicle for worldbuilding and philosophical reflection that irks me. I think Spice & Wolf is a good example of a series with good and bad use of dialogue.

>>133735167
The only reason I kept watching Zankyou no Terror is because I liked the visuals and atmosphere. But I've also watched shows with not so great or mediocre visuals since I liked the characters or story enough.

>>133748458
>In any case, I'm not against dialogue itself. It's when it becomes the sole vehicle for worldbuilding and philosophical reflection that irks me.
I agree with that. The only times I can appreciate shows where characters spout philosophical dialogue is when that dialogue serves to teach you more about the characters' perspective rather than be an explicit lesson for the viewer. And in terms of worldbuilding I think exposition dumps are really clumsy and way too commonly used.

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>>133735167
The stand-off in Jigen Daisuke no Bohyo was stunning in that aspect. The whole movie is well directed but that scene was so fucking spaghetti western, it was really cool.

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Not so much talking about the movies themselves but I really liked how the 7th film of the Kara no Kyoukai movies had an opening CG scene that manages to convey that toxic/creepy atmosphere that serves as a huge foreshadowing of the main antagonist in the film.

>>133748661
Everyone praises KnK but it was pretty garbage as far as I'm concerned. It might be technically impressive but in terms of aesthetics I think a typical KyoAni show looks better. Ufotable can make technically high quality animation but most of their directors don't really have the same artistic eye to make use of it. I will say the second movie was exceptional though, the atmospheric dread and mystery of the whole setup was handled really well and the visual direction was strong too. That director should have done the whole series.

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As you can clearly and literally see from my 3x3: alot desu

>>133748778
I liked them. Much better than anything else that Type-Moon/Ufotable has offered so far, which is kinda depressing if you think about how it's their first collab work. I do agree about the directors though, and I think that only served to cripple what seemed like a story that was aiming for a certain creative vision. That said, I thought it had its moments across the different films.

>>133736393
Sadly half of it is CGI cancer,

>>133747679
Yeah, really got the nail on the head. Pacing and experience are almost impossible to control. You couldn't have a "30 seconds of Rei and Asuka standing silently in an elevator" kind of moment in a video game. The player would be too busy trying to jump on an NPC's head or spinning around in circles or any number of dumb things. They probably wouldn't even know any storytelling was going on. Any impact such an event could have would be totally lost as a result.

Of course, sure, even in a non-interactive medium you can't assure that someone is going to feel the emotion you're trying to convey. Someone could find that elevator scene boring as hell or emotionally empty. They could be just playing around on their phone or distracted. But in the former case, it's the story that's putting them off. It doesn't resonate with them, but they're not failing to see it and experience it. In the latter case, the distraction came from an external source.

It's just something about how the medium itself stands to remove you from the story it's presenting that I find problematic with games. I'm not in the "games can't be art" camp, but in the hundreds of games I've played, there's only been one (maybe two) that I thought could not work for any other medium.

>>133749248
You're right. It reminds me that Sinbad movie by Dreamworks where the only things that are not CGI are the characters themselves.

Shaft overemphasize their visual direction. They actually make their anime worse because their heads are shoved so far up their ass.

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This is just from what I had on me, I'm sure if I rewatched it I could pick through loads more good shots.

Being artistic is only 1 letter away from being autistic

How much value do you get paid to make this thread everyday?

>>133745825
I could make one later. Will post it in a HxH thread if one pops up.

>>133749772
>discussion is bad