>On Friday, November 13th, four men in Japan were arrested by the Kyoto Prefectural Police on suspicion of illegally taking, digitizing and distributing manga content originally published in the Japanese edition of Weekly Shonen Jump. Weekly Shonen Jump is the world's most-read weekly manga anthology and is published in Japan by Viz Media's parent company, Shueisha, Inc.
>It is alleged that this content was illegally distributed internationally through the online scanlation site MangaPanda. The site is also alleged to be the supplier to additional perpetrators possibly involved in the cross-border violation of intellectual property rights and copyright law.
>Digital piracy is a crime that steals what others have worked so hard to create. Viz Media actively supports manga creators and manga fan culture, and is committed to making the highest possible quality content available to a global audience through licensed channels.
Did mangapanda go to far?
>is committed to making the highest possible quality content available to a global audience through licensed channels.
Did Viz even read the news? They weren't caught because they were scanlating, they were caught because they were releasing chapters OVER A WEEK before they hit the shelves in JAPAN. Not only that but they were making $$$ with it.
I can't speak for others but that's basically how I've been treating digital manga. For the works I really like, I'd buy the physical books, but for the manga where I like but not enough to justify importing, I'd just buy the digital releases.
I've wrote and frequently updating a program which has been downloaded over 300k times so far from my website alone.
I also have a donate button in the program itself and in my site.
The donations so far, has been 17$ in total.
It just does not work.
The only reason I'm still doing it only for a line in CV.
That is not a fair comparison at all. People aren't as invested in programs as they are in works of entertainment. Saying it just does not work is not accurate. It does work TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, when you compare with other works of entertainment like music etc. The key thing of course isn't to go full donation, but a mix of donation and traditional sales.
If there were a netflix or google books type of thing for manga or anime, I'd gladly pay it.
But producers actually want me to wait months for a work to be published in tankobon format and then maybe shipped here, it's just too much wait.
>How many more donations do you think you would have gotten if you really pushed the issue, you know? Like, really push it at people.
Constantly asking for donations only makes me less inclined to donate
>Viz Media actively supports manga creators and manga fan culture, and is committed to making the highest possible quality content available to a global audience through licensed channels.
>highest quality content
>And why it doesn't have any publicity?
Crunchyroll literally subs half the shows every season with funimation taking the rest. Funimation even puts their shit at the beginning of the video.
You guys can easily buy something from amazon japan, you can even buy sets of manga, I'm a neet and with the few bucks I get in a month, I have bought manga from Japan without much effort
Of course I only buy stuff I really like
I'm a neet with literally 0 income, I'm not going to buy manga from japan considering the shipping cost. If a series that I really like is available at my local bookstore then I might buy it there when I'll get a few bucks.
Blame people not buying the volumes for that.
Friendly reminder that manga companies have to license each series by the volume and if it doesn't sell, they have every right to curb stomp the shit out of it.
Not really, I pay for all the manga I read. I'm glad the raw providers were caught because it pissed me off being spoiled every fucking week. Filthy chinks, why can't they wait a fucking week to release their shitty scanlations.
Fucking gooks, why can't they start their own "Netflix" of anime. They're always selling their shit at piss poor prices, even small 3rd world tv channels can pay licenses for their shows, CEO of SHITnimation and Crunshitroll must laugh their asses off every night before going to sleep.
That isn't even the worst of their bullshit.
Back then we actually stopped translating licensed properties and did not scan English volume releases. Licensors had the full support of the community and licensed more works than they could support, that is why they cancelled anything not living up to their sales expectations.
>Viz Media actively supports manga creators and manga fan culture, and is committed to making the highest possible quality content available to a global audience
>highest possible quality
Good joke, Viz.
>Just a while ago they were hacked and all their customer data stolen.
But that's wrong, no data was stolen. It was just some idiot that was able to fuck up the homepage and the layout. That's barely hacking.
Well they are committing crimes so going to jail is the logical outcome. Or suicide if they want to copy Aaron Swartz.
I've know scanlation will not survive the next decade (just like fansubbing died), this is something anyone with half a brain has accustomed himself with for a long time.
Enjoy the show while it lasts.
Anyway, I'm proofreading Ballroom e Youkoso 28, and will start dumping soon.
That's why you buy magazines and only get volumes of what you really like. It's not even that expensive when compared to any other form of media, you're just not used to pay for it all of your life so any dollar for what's free sounds like an extravagance for you. You're only used to consume, more, more and more. For free! I bet you barely remember the names of the characters of half the shit you read.
>I've know scanlation will not survive the next decade (just like fansubbing died)
Except there's a shit ton more manga out there than anime. Crunchyshit can take all the cartoons they want but not all all the manga. That's where scanlation comes in to pick up the rest of it, and even then there are a ton of series not translated.
I'm just going to ignore the rant about consumption, but buying magazines can be more expensive than buying volumes depending on the distribution of your series. I mean, I read one or two manga from plenty of magazines, so I'd effectively be paying for ten to twenty chapters when I only want a fraction of those.
Some say it's the money involved in being the first ones to release because of ads but that only applies for the English sites. Personally I think it's dibs e-peen stupidity. If you think English scanlation scene is retarded you obviously don't know the Chinese one. They are literally paying magazine delivery middlemen to be the first ones to scanlate.
Well the thing is, TPP basically makes copyrights global. So even though a manga is not copyrighted in USA or the EU you can still get a C&D, heck even by a third party the copyright owner might not even know you exist.
So scanlation WILL quite certainly die - most big sites which fuel it survive by ad revenue and are quite public. The moment people have to start going on irc and shit to get their manga it's fucking over, it's not the 90s anymore. Sure maybe some will do it for a time but in the end with waining popularity the people doing it will disappear one after the other as well.
Not only do magazines cost more than tanks, but you'd be buying chapters you're not interested in.
Definitely do buy when there are color pages and one shots that may not be republished or take years before collected.
I wish I could make bets that this wouldn't happen. Do any of those bet-on-random-shit sites have a way we could start wagering on this? People said the exact same things as you're saying now at various points in the last ten years. Fuck, I remember the whole "we might have to go to IRC, but won't that kill manga?" argument coming up during the Onemanga debacle. It won't happen.
When you said you read tons of manga I thought you did read tons of manga which would mean more than one chapter per magazine. If you only read some manga then there's higher chance it's licensed. Get a Viz subscription, it's like $3 per month or something and you get to read lots of different popular titles in English just one week after Japan, sometimes less.
Magazines cost less than a tank and have dozens of chapters. It's the best if you like to read just about anything.
>It won't happen.
It has happened already in a way.
Manga Trader dying was the begging of the end for scanlation. Eventually every country capable of holding a viable server will have the same copyright laws the States have had for the last 5-6 years.
They only "caught" them now even though they've been doing it, quite openly mind you, for years. Why?
>which would mean more than one chapter per magazine
No, not really. For starters, a lot of stuff is already finished and magazine subscriptions won't get you it, and of the ongoing stuff I do read, it's distributed across a lot of magazines. You do realize Kodansha alone has a hundred magazines, right?
>thinking everything I read is licensed from Viz
Are you shitting me?
Let me ask you a question.
If they close mangafox and bato.to tomorrow, where would the typical pleb go for his manga?
When 3 years ago there were a hundred big manga readers. Now there's what three? Four at most?
This shit can happen in a single day. Just be prepared.
You're too new to know what I'm talking about.
I'd say this is because people are not used to systems like patreon or flattr yet. The default behaviour of people is to take things that are given for free and not give it another thought. But honor systems for selling things without supervision work all over the world. When people are used to some practice and consider it normal they take what they want and pay accordingly without giving it another thought. We can only hope that global culture moves toward the practice of providing digital products as services without payment per item but instead paying for the service after you've used it.
I don't care about the typical pleb, but where everyone who knows what they're doing would go, assuming all of Mangafox's sister sites and madokami were also down and that no backup or replacement appeared immediately, would be the scanlators' sites.
Madokami is used by a couple hundred people don't even think it plays any role in anything.
As for scanlator's websites - they are blogs and they put their files on file sharing services all of that can be taken down in 3 minutes.
I know but they went down and it scared everyone. They are wanting people to have backups of the entire site so if they go down with the TPP we still have everything. A 4TB HDD is like $180 fot a good one.
I'm following probably somewhere between one and two hundred series ongoing in Japan, but that's not nearly enough to justify buying most of the magazines those are in. For example, I'd be buying Champion Red for Seikon no Qwaser, Deadtube, and Chikyuu no Houkago. That's three chapters, I'm not going to pay for five times that.
I know people who put their scanlator blogs on Tumblr. Suffice to say it's a three strikes policy with regards to being DMCA'd to death.
The safest harbour is always to release scanlations anonymously on here.
>any role in anything
It plays a role in me getting my manga.
> all of that can be taken down in 3 minutes
Yes, and this has been the case for ages, with nothing happening. And if they do take down Magnavox & co, Batoto, Kiss, Madokami, and scanlators' sites, there are multiple people with personal backups and siterips. There's also nay and stuff, not like most of their torrents for manga are live, but you get my point. There are many points of access for this, and more are easily fabricated, and it's not going to die.
>fansubs couldn't die
They died because there's a free alternative for basically all of them, and had nothing to do with accessibility or DMCAs or anything you're talking about with manga. It's completely irrelevant.
Well when people have the backups then the data is secured. That is all that matters. There can always be another site but the data is irreplaceable. When it goes down we can have a thread and solve it hopefully. You can have a bot that auto downloads everything put on the site to the archive that you already have.
>All that matters
Look at what you saying. Like really, read it. Mangatraders went down with less than 2TB of data. The FTP in its short history got to almost double that. Dropping off one single point of failure for another is not a real solution. Even in the short span Mangatraders was dead, there was probably a bunch of lost releases and still are. the goal of Madokami first and foremost was not to stick out to gather public releases. It was to form a stopgap solution and until there is a real solution, we're going to spend the rest of our lives in panic-mode or sloth-mode.
Or, you know, we'll spend the rest of our lives dealing with occasional takedowns and loss of some data, like we have been for quite a while now, and we'll still have most of our stuff, and we'll just learn to live with it and not freak out about it.
Put it all on an XDCC bot and it will be around forever.
#lurk was great and the only reason it ever went away is because people didn't donate to cover bandwidth expenses. I only started using mangatraders after #lurk went down because it was an inferior service filled with watermarked shitrips from online reader.
>ITT: Retards who think dumb US laws would actually hold in real free world.
At the worst case people would just outsource to Turkish Republic of Cyprus or some other weird country with first world standards but no international accountability.
>buying something you can't even read
Most likely answer? Tumblr and social media. Literally all the scan groups for licensed stuff and doujinshi I follow have a tumblr, it's gone and replaced livejournal
God help us all.
You're wrong and have extremely undeveloped understandings of art and data sharing.
I don't have the patience to explain why a pattern of data on my HDD does not constitute stolen goods.
Entertainment is not food or shelter. People shouldn't expect to make a living from producing entertainment.
Calling data-copying a "sin" just robs the word sin of all meaning.
I hate you and what you stand for. You're trying to take the moral highground over puerile excesses of modern culture.
His point is that entertainment has become an industry and those in the industry expect people (wrongfully so) to invest heavily in it, as opposed to something done for fun/the sake of it.
I agree that entertainment should be more easily accessible, but he argues that creators shouldn't expect to make money for their work. By that logic, he should also be fine with there being no entertainment then, because a great deal of work goes into creating it.
>No, he said that people shouldn't expect to make a living from entertainment
What's the difference? If I can make any money for doing something, then I should be able to make a living at it by doing enough of it or by doing it in high enough quality.
The difference is that one attitude creates, for better or worse, an entire industry devoted to selling a particular product, entertainment. I'm glad that we have such an industry but I think they have a bit too much power now, especially with TPP looming.
The problem isn't people trying to make a living, it's massive corporate executives who want to raise their paychecks from ridiculous to completely ludicrous. Even people fairly high up in the creative processors like directors usually don't give a flying fuck about their bottom line or protecting their IP.
>Manga piracy is dying
>Milokon might stop producing scans
>LWB is offline
>Fakku shills everywhere since yesterday to capitalize on the chaos
>School backpacks now have to be censored because Olympics
Truly the end of the world
Serious question time:
If the current world of fansubs and fanscans didn't exist and the only wsy you could get your daily/weekly/monthly dose of manga x, y or z was by buying it on through a legal channel, would you do it? Lets say for the dake of the argument that 100% of any given author/publishers catalog is available (both new and old).
And would the resulting selles be enough to make manga a profitable business in the USA? Would it be big enough to rival mainstream comics like Marvel and DC?
Through the legal channels currently available? I'd buy some, but very little. I'd probably get less frugal as time went on, but I sure as hell wouldn't be buying stuff like Nisekoi or Subete ga F.
I dont read Viz releases because scanlations are either faster or the shit I read isn't popular enough for Viz to care about
Honest question what is bad about them. If there is something they have done that I cant find scans for I would pirate their scans no problem
>would the resulting selles be enough to make manga a profitable business in the USA?
>Would it be big enough to rival mainstream comics like Marvel and DC?
Yes. That stuff has one foot in the grave already.
Then I have no idea because I can't tell what prices would be like. I was imagining CR/Funi/whatever simulsubbing everything new at their normal subscription rates and all manga and older anime being available in English in the same format and price as the Jap versions.
Why did Redhawk have to die?
I've been using their website for years ;_;
That reminds me, the other day Matt Thorn posted on his Twitter that scanlators are responsible for the poor sales of the Hourou Musuko manga in English. The U.S. release is hardcover and costs over $20 a book, and not to mention the series has a fairly niche point of interest. I think he's a very good translator but he needs to realize that most manga readers don't want to shell out $200-300 for a twelve-volume manga series.
So he's bitching about scanlation that started five years prior their publication and ended almost two and half years ago, while they still haven't finished it. What a retard.
Why so serious all of a sudden? This is just like any topic on /a/, the more we make anime popular the bigger this problem is gonna get, the more people who like anime the greater the number of people who'll fileshare it. Though the percentage of people who buy only, fileshare only, and all inbetween won't change, getting more sales because the buy only grew larger, then seeing all that "lost sales" because the fileshare only grew bigger alongside will drive them mad. So like with any topic on /a/ it is our job to be on the forefront on setting the memes, bait, troll, and flame wars.
These guys need to figure out that their biggest competition is not scanlators. Their biggest competitors are TV, video games, books, movies, etc. And as long as they're charging $45 for a fucking bluray they will continue to be ignored by everyone.
TP were counting on Battle Royale to be a big hit with normalfags so they contracted a comic book writer to fuck up the translation completely to make it edgier.
The actual Battle Royale manga is 90% word-for-word from the book.
And of course it wasn't a smash hit. I will never not be butthurt about this. TP got the same comic book guy to fuck up Ikkitousen too.
See, I'd buy Jump for Hero Academia and Soma (and the monthlies) but fuck paying anything for the 'privilege' of having my download be stuffed full of shit I do not want to read like Nisekoi and Bleach.
Of all people CR have this right, I pay my dues, I get the four series I want, I never need to consider something I don't care for like Girl May Kill and I'm genuinely happy to leave at that.
I got DMCA'd for linking to an uploaded amtlib DLL for a friend on tumblr and last time I got DMCA'd for uploading fucking public domain books. Another time I uploaded a bunch of books (about 12 fiction) and got DMCA'd again. I baka because someone else escaped being DMCA'd even though they uploaded about 800 books to a dropbox account but I got caught over just 12.
Funnily they haven't killed me over scanlating yet, but as long as you make sure that you're bypassing the crawlers (aka enable robots.txt and keep keywords in images rather than in text) you should be fine(ish). Also there are ways of making the entire blog look blank but only viewable to followers or people who have changed their useragent to mobile. It's a clever way of fucking up the copyright bots.
On the other hand, anyone who pastes links on 4chan should consider the fact that all the fucking links end up in the archives which is crawled so spoiler tagging the shit or using ᴜɴɪᴄᴏᴅᴇ (note that fullwidth is still crawled) might make it less likely that some bot will find it. (especially on the /mu/ sharethreads)
>It won't be long before WSJ shuts shop
I assume you mean WSJ rips, not that WSJ is going to stop running, but I still don't believe it. There are too many people willing to upload and too many people willing to read. And for most of the scanlation scene, there are simply too many projects from too many sources to kill all of them.
>unironically trying to use "baka" in a sentence
Please leave. Really.
>We can only hope that global culture moves toward the practice of providing digital products as services without payment per item but instead paying for the service after you've used it.
>Vidya as a service
>Manga as a service
Nah fuck that
This. Everyone the last few days keeps bringing up the idea of bringing Steam or Kickstarter or Patreon to bear on anime, but I don't want that. I like the model where the industry makes what it likes and the amateur community organizes itself the way it likes and interference is rare, and I wish we could stop shifting away from that.
>he doesn't know that there are two Viz anons (one screenshotting, one ripping) and one person on tumblr person (screenshotting) uploading Viz rips
I bet you also don't know that Tumblr is the second best place to pirate shit television, movies and anime without resorting to sekrit clubs and shitty unseeded public trackers (when the private trackers aren't shitting themselves to death.)
Just sm͏h fa͏m
> shit television, movies
I don't care.
> anime without resorting to sekrit clubs and shitty unseeded public trackers (when the private trackers aren't shitting themselves to death.)
I don't get what you're saying. It's the best place to get anime without "resorting to" the places where I get all my anime already without any hassle?
>Digital piracy is a crime that steals what others have worked so hard to create.
I know about those python scripts that can be used to download from there
But the bastards changed their site settings or something and now everything downloads at a snail's pace
Fuckers should've given an option for downloading if they were going all account mandatory
>The moment people have to start going on irc and shit to get their manga
I would totally go for an XDCC bot for manga. I should use it more for anime, but since I moved to the middle of nowhere it's more convenient to use torrents that I can pause and resume later in the day.
I collect sources of stuff as a hobby. Tumblr is just another notch in the easily accessible belt. The bigger dream is one of those FTP servers or whatever that cleaners and manga scanlation groups get their scans before 7 days which it would probably be inaccurate to call a topsite.
Jdownloader dl'd at full pace and at full resolution the last time I checked. There's also an active support.
Not him but /g/ hates Viz. That much is understood.
Underpaying your animators and working on shoestrings is pretty much the soul of anime, just like sleeping all day and pulling all-nighters to rush out your next chapter before the deadline is the soul of manga.
Some anon posted this a couple days ago.
One of the main reasons manga and anime has taken off is because of piracy. It's fucking stupid to condemn this since the only reason companies are translating is because there is demand that was created from illegal rips. People would have never cared if there was a paywall to get an interest for nip media.
It just kind of reminded me of whenever you say 'Windows' on /g/
I also don't really understand how the translations are bad desu, in my experience, the words make sense and they match the picture, so what exactly is the problem?
Possibly a joke, but has a probability of being a new policy of some digital store that the guy sells his stuff on. Somehow i don't see the guy ruining his art even more by censoring unnecessary bits just to make a statement.
>It just kind of reminded me of whenever you say 'Windows' on /g/
Is this your first time on /a/ or something? There are least a hundred things that will get you snide greentext if you mention them, and that's not even counting opinions on anime and manga.
Another problem with Japan is their apparent xenophobia when it comes to their works. It's a lot harder to get Japanese media than say Korean media because the Nips shun rather embrace new forms of distribution. For example, most Japanese labels are still very wary of YouTube while Koreans are more welcoming of it. While this has been changing somewhat recently, it may be too little too late.
That was earlier this thread, but yes, it's pretty stupid to try taking the moral high ground against piracy when that's how people find your series. Stuff like >>133741099 is just ridiculous - if you don't make any money selling a book that's been available for free for five years, it's not the scanlators' fault for being evil robbers, it's your fault for being idiots and expecting people to buy that.
>keep keywords in images rather than in text
What do you mean by this? Sorry if it's a really obvious thing, I use the site to share personal scans (no DL links, just image uploads) but I'm actually not very good at using it.
Ok so imagine you are browsing 4chan or tumblr. There is text on the page that you can highlight and copy. This can be seen by scripts or bots that people write to identify the text in order to send DMCA notices. (Most DMCA notices are automated and are not sent by hand).
Robots.txt is a function to prevent webscrapers working and to tell them to essentially fuck off. I am unsure if it works for copyright trolls.
If you put your text in an image well maybe they have a utility which can identify words in images known as an OCR. However these are extremely rare and there are many millions of fonts you could use to fuck their shit up. So writing 'Scanlation of x manga' in the image and typing out the link and putting it in the image but not in the post body means that you won't get hit by as many DMCA notices. The same principle goes for here (the practice of writing long and detailed filenames and web addresses and album names for example on /mu/ has kicked many of their members in the butt when it gets archived by rebecca. )
You can catch up with most of the popular series with an official translation at your local library for free, what would suck is losing all access to niche series that will probably never see the light outside of Japan. Hell, piracy even helps some niche series, just look at the boost in popularity 4chan gave WataMote.
I like Viz there translations are superb and when they localise something, it's to improve the source and no nigga talk. Also the image have a very good quality although the resolution is a bit too small.
Which is a stupid comparison because you don't pay for scanlations while you do for Viz. No shit, it's better. It's supposed to be better. Doesn't mean it's good enough to be worth paying for.
>it's to improve the source
That's not their fucking job. "Improving the source" and having superb translations are mutually exclusive. Also, with English like yours, I'm not sure why you expect us to care about your judgment of a translation.
Somehow I don't think so. I'm pretty sure their translator is a professional one, they don't scanlate garbage series and their redraws and resolution aren't completely fucking shit. In fact, they didn't butcher Igarashi Daisuke like Viz did the faggots. So, no, you're definitely wrong.
People are paying them, or else they wouldn't be doing it. Not many /a/nons, but people are. The point is that if you do this as your job and people give you money for it, you've failed if your translations are even on a level with hobbyists, let alone worse than theirs.
Yeah fuck all the software developers of the world. All they make is a pattern of data. No one needs them anyone.
>I hate you and what you stand for. You're trying to take the moral highground over puerile excesses of modern culture.
Seriously fuck you. You don't deserve to live.
This better be bait. There is literally no other way to handle honorifics that's even semi-acceptable.
> that does the same series' as them
That's irrelevant, and I doubt it, anyway. With the number of series they've done, they must overlap with some decent groups.
You can just compared their WSJ with the respective groups that do the same series like One Piece, Nisekoi, Bleach, Toriko, Platinum End and so on. All the repective scanlation group are unable to proofread or have something you can even call "english" or "quality".
So you're now dialing back your claim from "they're superb" to "they're better than other groups" to "they're better than the other groups that do the same manga" to "they're better than the other groups that do the same WSJ manga"? That's a lot of backpedaling.
Oh I get it, you're a Muslim aren't you?
Because you're easily offended like one.
Do me a favor and go check out their Bokurano. It gets worse when you remember you're comparing a professional company's version to rapid-fire scans from one guy doing it for fun.
>Copyright infringement wasn't illegal until TPP
Anyone want to justify this clonestamp garbage to me?
The one how I deny being Rapeman and you accuse me of being him and shilling my shit, silly.
But you're absolutely right, there's no need to continue since this spams up the thread anyway. So I'll just walk away from this and let you off the hook, okay? You don't even have to reply, heck if you want the final post to feel better I won't reply to you and pretend I've been beaten by your superior wits. Whatever floats your boat, goy!
How does it feel that the only things that muslims got right (women as second-class and marrying little girls\fucking shotas for fun) you will not get to experience because you're a westernized muslim?
> you will incorporate them to the whole sentence or character
I'm not sure what incorporating to a character means, although part of that might be your shit English, but changing the tone of the sentence to reflect the honorific is much worse than just leaving the honorific there (which isn't "translating" it, by the way).
What this guy said. I agree that people should be rewarded for their work but it just doesn't apply to entertainment. Even TV shows are tolerable because we pay for the channel subscription and not per episodes we watched. That's why I support websites like netflix because it's fair to sell entertainment in their way. With manga it's difficult if you have to pay for every single one you want to read even new series that you just want to try to get into. You don't see people buying blu-rays of a show they don't know just because the cover seems fun. They saw it on TV first and once they find it interesting then they buy the blu-rays. I bought all the manga series I found interesting while most that I don't are just for fun reading only.
You talk about Viz as if it's a single entity. As if it's one person.
So many people in this thread saying that scanlaters are better than Viz. Fuck - where do you think a lot of these Viz translators came from? Stephen Paul was working in the One Piece community for about a decade before he was picked up to do it officially. He'd also done a fucking excellent scanlation of Monster.
> Fuck - where do you think a lot of these Viz translators came from?
As I said in the last thread when someone brought this up, if I formed a mercenary group out of some ex-soldiers, that would not mean you'd get the same work from us as from the army.
That analogy doesn't work. Like, remotely.
Have you ever heard these Viz guys talk about their work? They're just as passionate as they ever were about this stuff - if not more. Getting paid for it is icing on the cake.
You can move the goalposts all you want. There's no such thing as "Viz". Every property is translated by different people, some properties more than one of it's longer. Almost everyone there has been working in the scanlation and fan communities for over a decade. They actively employ people who know their shit. It's the kind of shitmuchers that NEED their honorifics and untranslated words in that ruin all this shit.
I'll continue to enjoy that stuff, you continue to stay angry at nothing.
ITT people that don't know Japanese think scanlators do a better job at translating just because they do it for free and add honorifics, TL notes and don't translate half of weeabo terms. TL note: note means plan.
If only you know how much meaning and context is butchered in scanlations. Most translators have no fucking clue what they're reading and guesswork their way out of it.
>There's no such thing as "Viz"
There is. "Viz's translations are x" means "the average translation put out by Viz is x" not "every single translation Viz puts out is x".
>I'll continue to enjoy that stuff, you continue to stay angry at nothing.
I'm not even angry, you're the one throwing around "shitmuchers" and cursing.
>There is. "Viz's translations are x" means "the average translation put out by Viz is x" not "every single translation Viz puts out is x"
Wow. That literally doesn't mean anything.
>I'm not even angry
Then stop. Put your heart into it, learn some facts or shut the fuck up.
Think that the average Viz translation sucks? Why not learn Japanese, put together your own team and show them who's boss, eh? You can leave as many honorifics and TL notes in as you like. Better yet, have a glossary at the back like those terrible Del Ray books used to have.
TL notes are one thing, but I really don't see why anyone would have an issue with honorifics being left in when the audience for your translation is entirely comfortable with them.
Depends. If you're translating for a broad audience that has no clue what dono means you can't leave it there. Some suffixes aren't as clear as say, chan. Actually, most people don't even know what chan really means and will be confused when it's used in different context other than a cute young girl. But I digress. If you're writing the dub script for a ghibli movie for example, kids will just be confused and not really get what it's supposed to imply. You have to rewrite what the characters say to convey the same meaning of the honorifics or formal language, this is preferable than leaving an ambiguous suffix that readers might not be able to understand. If you do it right as you should, no harm will be done to the original.
> Actually, most people don't even know what chan really means and will be confused when it's used in different context other than a cute young girl
I'd be pretty surprised if that were the case on /a/. Regardless, my general point is that complaining about scanlators leaving honorifics in just seems silly. They're translating for a bunch of weebs who spend their time on manga and anime. It's reasonable to expect them to know all the common ones.
I agree with that, I was just speaking generally. Incidentally though, saying that an official translation is bad just because they don't use honorifics when their target is people who aren't used to Japanese language isn't a very good argument.
You obviously have no idea who buys their shit. It's the kind of people that only know two suffixes and has to google kouhai.
I'd rather have a no honorifics release that translates everything else well than a release that leaves honorifics but fucks up with what's happening in the story.
I can agree with that. My point is that just because they leave honorifics in you can't be sure they are good translators so at least compare the translation in 1 or 2 chapters before deciding which one is most suited to you.
>a release that leaves honorifics but fucks up with what's happening in the story.
The way you word your post makes it seem that a translations is bad by default just because the honorifics are left in. You seem extremely biased in this matter, to the point that i'm even having trouble taking you seriously.
I don't even like when translators leave honorifics in, but you're seriously pushing it.
> then you won't even notice the lack of honorifics
No, you definitely will. There is no direct English equivalent for most honorifics. Changing the sentence to convey the tone, if done well, can mirror it, but you're placing the tone in several parts of the sentence instead of having it be a "normal" tone except for the indication of the honorific, which isn't a huge difference but definitely still exists.
I'm not implying that which is why I wrote >>133752763 after I realized it sounded that way.
Every scanlation I read lately was terrible translation wise but everyone preferred reading it because they left honorifics in. This is the only reason I'm upset about it.
I actually prefer honorifics left in by the way.
>People who work in the entertainment industry don't deserve to be paid because.
>HURR data strings are information so it's not theft.
>If you can't translate something that doesn't exist in other languages you're a bad translator.
Just when you think /a/ couldn't get any more retarded it manages to surprise you with new lows.
Literally worse than reddit.
I'll consider buying their manga if they sell digital manga for a low price per volume and no DRM.
Otherwise they can go fuck themselves. Almost none of the manga they pick up are worth the shelf space.
Modern serfdom is what it is. It's because of sheeple like you that companies get to screw us over. Why is it so difficult for faggots to understand that if they want to keep their rights, they need to stay up to date on global happenings?
> licensed channels.
and you wonder why manga died
7-11 dollar is the norm for viz digital manga. That amounts to a shit load of money when you consider the amount of volumes per series.
If i ever buy it,i buy from comixology. It has a extension to rip your manga.
Even thought those thieves are the very reason the manga/anime industry is alive outside of Japan?
20 years ago the japanese governement loathed the idea of exporting manga and animu and if it wasn't for those thieves 4chan wouldn't probably even exist.
>If i ever buy it,i buy from comixology. It has a extension to rip your manga.
They also offer DRM free backups themselves. The extension shit is just what /co/ use to rip their books
I own over 4,000 different volumes of manga and even I think the American model of charging $10-15 a softcover volume is total shit in 2015.
The all you can eat model is fine once a catalog grows big enough. Not familiar with what Viz offers for $10/month but if it's their entire library and Shonen Jump that's not a bad deal.
>We can only hope that global culture moves toward the practice of providing digital products as services without payment per item but instead paying for the service after you've used it.
The [insert thing that isn't a service] as a service model is the biggest fucking scam ever conceived and it makes me sad that so many people don't recognize it. Instead of paying for something once and owning it forever, you will pay for it forever and cede all control to the provider.
For a single volume?
You Americans sure have it rough.
>20 years ago the japanese governement loathed the idea of exporting manga and animu and if it wasn't for those thieves 4chan wouldn't probably even exist.
Fuck off, we've been getting anime since the 70's and manga was already big by the 90's here in Europe, don't make up shit to justify piracy.
It the US manga market was like Japan, i.e. ~$5-6 per volume for new titles with and wide availability of second hand manga at $1-2 per volume, I think a lot more people would buy it.
>we've been getting anime since the 70's
Only popular stuff that would qualify as "normie anime" today.
>manga was already big by the 90's here in Europe
It was the cool underground stuff but I wouldn't not call that popular.
You don't even get their back-catalog,and pirates have the option to read a larger potion of the older releases because buying the back issues is limited.
I certainly would.
shounenshit tend to have low prices on the first few volumes,only to go up to 11 dollars on the newer ones.
>not buying your japanese media in superior japanese digital online stores
>not supporting your fave creators
>supporting middlemen, SJW translators and literal jews
You're all homosexuals.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Even to this day USA is still not at the same level France, Germany or even Spain were 10 years ago when manga is concerned. There's still manga that have yet to be translated to English but they have been sold in Europe for a decade. The only difference is that Eurofags don't scan their manga so you're not aware they exist. But you can see lots of DVD rips that are rips of Italian releases on Nyaa for example.
I ain't got time to learn moonspeak...I have NEET things to do.
Idiots and people with rich parents who mistakenly believe that if they spoil their twisted wreck of a child that he'll somehow turn out ok in the end.
>I have NEET things to do.
Yeah, like learning moonspeak. The only reason you are not learning Japanese despite having all the time in the world as a NEET is because you're spending that time shitposting and playing video games. Fuck off back to /v/.
>You have no idea what you're talking about.
Because I'm talking about Europe.
I'm french btw and publisher here looked at what was being pirated the most to before publishing stuff here. They don't do that anymore since the market is big enough now but it's how it was a long time ago.
>Only popular stuff that would qualify as "normie anime" today.
Niche and minor products never get out of borders, it's always been like this, nobody invests in something that doesn't bring something in you dumb motherfucker, we still got a all the good shows, even the Kinnikuman anime got out of Japan.
That said, in Europe we got A LOT of minor and niche stuff like Poru no Mirakuru Daisakusen, Youkai Ningen Bem and quite a lot of mecha.
>It was the cool underground stuff but I wouldn't not call that popular.
You have no idea what you're talking about, the stuff americans either long for or are getting now was already in Europe for decades, Europe imported a humongous amount of Japanese stuff including obscure Toku shows like Megaloman.
Educate yourself before posting garbage.
I'm spending that time reading the shitload of English translated content. When i'm out i might be forced to start learning japanese.
Being kinda better is not enough when you ask money for your work.
The worst part is that they even want to school you about how it was before they were born.
The internet was a mistake, it should have been used just for porn instead of piracy, we wouldn't have this kind of monstrous entitlement.
The average manga costs too much. They expect you to pay $10 per volume in a series that has 20.
I actually prefer physical copies and would gladly buy them, but those prices are stupid.
And I don't care how much they cost on average in Japan. $10 for a comic book that I will read maybe twice is too much when novels cost about the same.
The only reason why you think it's too much is because you're asking your parents to buy it for you or using an allowance. If you have your own job and know how to manage your savings there's no such thing as manga costing too much.
You are arguing about the US of A while everything I said was about Europe.
We're talking about 2 different things and that's why we cannot reach an agreement nor agree to disagree.
Glad to have cleared that up.
That's such a stupid fucking argument you're posing. If I was using allowance I wouldn't argue about the price retard.
I'm not paying $10 for a comic book on principle. I don't care if I can afford it. Have some standards you asswhip.
So you're okay with paying $10 for a pizza you're only going to eat once and barely make up for what your body really needs but you're sperging about paying $10 for a comic book you can read all the times you want, get never ending cultural enlightenment and then sell it to a second hand store and get part of your investment? Sure thing. Come back after you get a job, retard.
>If you have your own job and know how to manage your savings there's no such thing as manga costing too much.
I read four volumes today, plus new releases. If fifty dollars a day on manga isn't too much, you've got a better job than I do.
To be honest, 10 bucks for a normal manga is just too much, not even the most luxurious edition reaches the equivalent of 10$ here in Europe, unless you want to buy some deluxe rererereprint of niche stuff from the 70's/80's with the best paper available, hard+soft cover and added extras and you live in places like Switzerland which has fucking absurd manga prices for some reason.
I'm talking about Europe, did you shut off your brain or something?
You frogs got almost all the stuff we guidos had, I know that market very well, we bested you in a few genres but we were pretty much the biggest manga and anime consumers in the world during the 70's/80's/early 90's
You only read four volumes today because you didn't have to pay for them. Did you also play four PS4 only videogames today? Did you go to the theater and watch 4 movies today?
If fansubs didn't exist I wouldn't know about 99% of the crap I read in the first place. It would also depend on the quality. If it was decently done i probably would be ok with buying but some of the picures I've seen of crunchyroll translations are so shit that I'd demand a refund.
> You only read four volumes today because you didn't have to pay for them
Yes, exactly. I wouldn't read them if I had to pay for them, because that's too much money, which is the exact thing you were arguing against. Thanks for admitting that.
>Niche and minor products never get out of borders, it's always been like this, nobody invests in something that doesn't bring something in
>Europe imported a humongous amount of Japanese stuff including obscure Toku shows like Megaloman.
>niche stuff don't get outside of Japan but Europe publish them anyway
You're contradicting yourself and no one here have heard of those shows.
I'll trust you and believe that they published them here but I seriously doubt they brought any money in.
I just love me some great quality scanlations.
>If you're saying you wouldn't pay for what you're reading then what you read isn't that good after all, so it doesn't really matter either way.
That's not what we were arguing about, which you've now given up on, but it's also bullshit. I wouldn't pay fifty dollars a day for what I read, because I flat out can't afford to.
Just because you're used to having all this content available for free it doesn't mean you should. If you can't afford to pay for what you like then you're reading too much and need to establish priorities in your life.
Are you so fucking retarded to not understand my follow up on the main statement?
Let me greentext it again for you
>nobody invests in something that doesn't bring something in
But what if there was an actual market for that niche stuff in Europe?
Does that make a bit more sense for you now?
>and no one here have heard of those shows.
How fucking old are you?
all the people around 30-35 have seen what I quoted here, Bem was even broadcasted again on MTV in the early 00's here because it was a cult classic for an entire generation.
Same with stuff like Tokimeki Tonight, Ai Shite Night got even an LA made entirely in Italy because it was a smashing success, arguably much more than it was in Japan.
Maybe you're just too young to know all of this, but you should have still informed yourself a bit.
>If you can't afford to pay for what you like then you're reading too much and need to establish priorities in your life
I have established priorities. That's exactly why I can't afford to pay for what I like, because I'm spending most of my money on necessities and putting the rest away so that I don't wind up dead broke if I ever lose my job.
Now I realize you entitled faggots may not be aware such places exist, but there are public libraries, which make available paid content at no cost to the consumer. And, bookstores like barnes & noble have reading sections, where faggots can read all the new releases they want without actually paying for them.
You're not. If you read so much manga that you wouldn't be able to afford it, that means you have a lot of time. If you have a lot of time, it means you're working part-time. This explains why you have no money for manga and use most of your income in necessities and saving whatever is left. Get a full-time job. Save all your money and get a college degree that will open you doors to get better paying jobs.
But the question then is "how do they know there's an actual market for that stuff here?"
Which brings me back to >>133753492
>publisher here looked at what was being pirated the most to before publishing stuff here
This is literally the exact same deal as pirating manga. Just because it's legal doesn't make it any different, I'm still depriving the author of the money I'd make him if I bought it.
I used to do that before. Not every single manga was available because the in stock selection was limited and I'd often not find the volume I wanted to read next. This is why I changed to digital manga, it's cheaper because I pay a lot in transport and wouldn't always get to read what I wanted in the end.
>"how do they know there's an actual market for that stuff here?"
I don't know about the France market, but here in Italy it was basically an experiment, we started with Mazinger, Harlock and Lupin and basically everything else followed because there was a huge boom of literal weeaboos in the pure sense of the word back then, you could even throw moe or obscure stuff and people would still watch it, there were a very minor number of shows that didn't work.
The only major ,and rather curious, dissonance is Gundam, we got very few Gundam shows, most people say that it's due to the super robot syndrome but that wouldn't explain why we got Robotech, even more weird, we actually got Robotech and not Macross.
We even got Voltron but curiously real robots were always in second place here, no VOTOMS either
It was the same here, what I said about publisher looking at what people were pirating is only partially true for anime.
One of the reasons fansubbing came to be was because they were did a terrible job at publishing stuff.
Hokuto no Ken dubs was so bad it ended up being legendary here.
I wish CR FR licensed more shows, ADN have terrible audio and Wakanim is pretty crazy on C&Ds. We're left with terrible fansubs with poor video quality and shitty subtitles. Natsumi no Sekai is the Hadena of FR fansubs, their Overlord releases were awful.
>Don't finish bringing Patlabor across but retain the rights
>Think they get to claim they support fans
True. The lazyness of our groups is a real problem, they need to step the fuck up. It's pretty depressing when you see that most french releases are hardsubbed, optimized for streaming and translated from english without any pass of TLC.
>True. The lazyness of our groups is a real problem, they need to step the fuck up. It's pretty depressing when you see that most french releases are hardsubbed, optimized for streaming and translated from english without any pass of TLC.
That's one of the reason i stopped watching spanish fansubs.
>Viz Media actively supports manga creators and manga fan culture, and is committed to making the highest possible quality content available to a global audience through licensed channels.
>Retarded translations sometimes
>Translating sound effects
>That period where they flipped their series left to right
>That period where they did nothing but promote Naruto 24/7
>Canceling series that don't sell despite never promoting them as much
>Tons of series that still haven't been brought over
Nice try Viz
>Digital piracy is a crime that steals what others have worked so hard to create.
>implying the companies which license it aren't profiteering leeches who act entitled to money they don't deserve
Because no one who isn't a weeab knows what the fuck dokidoki means.
Viz isn't a group of nerds online translating shit for other weeabs, they're a company that are translating a product for the general public.
>Official translations are shit and shut out people who can do better.
>companies deliberately target popular series and produce a shit-quality product
Go fuck yourself with a cactus.
>>Official translations are shit and shut out people who can do better.
Again, there is no scanlation group that is better as a whole than Viz or CR.
>>companies deliberately target popular series
Yes, because it's a job. They aren't doing it for fun. It's not NEETs doing stuff for NEETs.
>and produce a shit-quality product
This is simply wrong. It clearly has flaws, but is not bad as a whole.
The whole french dub is like that but finding actual comparison with the original dub is actually hard.
There's a lot of video on youtube but most of them are only in french so I doubt you'd understand anything.
>Again, there is no scanlation group that is better as a whole than Viz or CR.
I have kept from replying to posts making this argument because i actually have no idea about viz releases, but if you honestly think that there is no group that is consistently better than cr then you're an idiot.
There are groups that one would consider mediocre at best and they still manage to do a better job than some so called "professional letterers" employed by cr.
It's not with every single case, but on mainstream media it does.
"I would like to have that CD, hmm, why should I buy that when I can just pirate it for free?" That's a lost sale isn't it? I was going to buy it but decided to pirate it instead, I get the product without exchanging any money for it.
Obviously there are situations where you simply cannot buy the product, especially in out of print/zero stock media, and products that aren't available at all in your country.
frustrated about viz being shit /a/?
There is an easy solution
learn moon speak
seriously though, I've been toying with the idea, but learning japanese just to read manga seems kinda gay
>I was going to buy it but decided to pirate it instead, I get the product without exchanging any money for it.
That only affects a small percentage of the population. Most people would never buy it in the first place, so you're not actually losing a sale, and most of the people that were going to buy it are still going to buy it, even if they can find it online for free. If anything you're exposing your product to a larger number of consumers, potentially gaining new customers.
On our case, people don't buy the localized version because the companies fuck up everything transforming a product aimed at a niche market into something they can sell to "anyone".
It's just the plain stupidity on their side that makes it a lost sale, but yet it's easier to blame the pirates.
>as a whole?
What do you mean by as a whole?
Their translations are probably on the same level as some scanlations, the typesetting is notoriously worse, there is no quality control whatsoever, you're forced to use their terrible flash reader, what is this whole you're talking about?
As i said before, you're a fucking idiot, enjoy this last (you) from me.
>Again, there is no scanlation group that is better as a whole than Viz or CR.
Why do you think Viz or CR's translations are better, just because the translator works for a company? Many publishers have hired inexperienced or shit-tier translators in order to pay the minimum for their work. Matt Thorn made a big article about this years ago about Publishers like Tokyopop and DMG that would go out of their way to hire inexperienced college students willing to get minimum-wage level pay for their translations.
Sometimes it's even noticeable if there's a shift in workers, like the english translation of Dorohedoro. In that case they changed translators at volume four and the person they hired after didn't even bother checking previous work or manga volumes and wound up misgendering characters and altering dialogue/accents.
>is where people won't be able to understand them?
They aren't that hard to start picking up with context if you read a lot of manga, and editing them really shits on the art sometimes.
>committed to making the highest possible quality content available
>Their translations are probably on the same level as some scanlations
No, they obviously aren't. Why do you talk about things you do not understand?
>the typesetting is notoriously worse
Most of the time it is not.
>there is no quality control
How would you know?
>whatsoever, you're forced to use their terrible flash reader,
Nope, just rip the shit. There. Now you can use whatever the fuck you want.
>Why do you think Viz or CR's translations are better, just because the translator works for a company?
Nope, they are better because they do actual proofreading.
>they are better because they do actual proofreading
the fuck im reading here?
>the only reason companies are translating is because there is demand that was created from illegal rips
Pretty much everything published by Seven Seas was licensed because it'd get posted and translated on here.