Is this the worst Type Moon character to date?
CCC improves upon Gil and has arguably the most lovable Sakura
Don't you think it's telling that, even after starring as a major character in the original VN and appearing as the primary antagonist in two out of the three routes, he had to be given an entire route all his own just so he wouldn't be shit?
I won't argue with that point, I love her so much.
AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT LIKES SAKURA BECAUSE SHE HAS A FATASS AND BIG TIDDIES??
I swear, everybody seems to ignore this fact because of her being a murderer or some shit i wouldn't know i only watch the anime
He's simply bad, a bad character and he's badly written. He's literally Asspull: The Hero.
Sakura is not liked by purityfags but those are the same faggots that will die alone and virgins, so who cares?
Nah, Sakura will cook for you, never betray you and lust hungrily for your cock.
This one here would be absofuckinglutely terrifying to date.
Why settle for a flawed Sakura if you can every good physical details of her with a much more vibrant personality
That was what my post was describing, BB is best Sakura
>wants to kill you and everything you like
>fighting in the Holy Grail war for no reason
>tortures you for eternity after you leave the war
>muh ba ser ka
>does nothing at all to help her servant in battle
>complains about free food
>tries to sow dissent between you and your allies
>is a literal cup
Berserker is the most suffering servant because of this absolute failure of a master.
The only decent thing she has done ever is when she was literally doing what she was made for.
She has no confidence or sense of morals. She isn't good, she isn't bad, she isn't somewhere in the middle, she's just plain as fuck. Wants to run away from all her issues instead of solving them. She just stands there and goes "Senpai! Senpai!" for half the game and the other half has her spouting her tragic story. The only form of closure or acceptance she goes through is in the last 20 minutes of a 25 hour route.
>Being a white knight who settles for overused goods.
Why does everyone dislike Sakura anyway? Most of what she went through (worms, angra mainyu etc) wasn't her fault and if you were mentally fucked up as a child you'd probably have a similar personality.
I'm neutral towards her. Her route was not all that special because of her but rather everything that happened towards her. I could easily see a story identical to hers but with pic related as the heroine instead. The other two routes have Saber's story, who is irreplaceable, and Rin's/Shirou's which don't work without them as major characters.
Obviously there would need to be some changes but nothing major. If they changed her to be Rin's sister and made it so that she was the girl attacked by Rider at school, I can see a story easily branching off from that point into a Mitsuzuri-Heaven's Feel route.
It would also fit into the prologue scene where Rin and her talk about love.
My favorite F/SN heroine is Saber and I hated Sakura before I even got to her route. She's fucking annoying and I find the kohai routine grating.
A big problem for me regarding her is her almost complete lack of purpose in Fate and UBW, and then come HF, I'm supposed to care about her.
I mean seriously, you could basically write out Sakura from the first two routes, and you'd lose nothing. Shirou gets his ass out of the shed and makes his own breakfast.
Saber and Rin are constants throughout the VN, they're active in the plot, and the narrative would distinctly change with their removal, but it's only come the last route where Sakura even has a reason to exist.
Can anyone but Sakura put a genuine smile on a fake's face? She's also cute as hell in the HF manga.
Rin made him smile lots of times.
I'm guessing you kinda wanna start a waifu war, though.
Don't know about the worst, but post THE BEST.
True ancestors aren't undead silly
I tried but her playstyle doesn't mesh with me. Oh well. Still mai waifu anyways.
The real, non-meme reasons people hate Sakura:
1) Worms, impure, educated prostitute, has fucked Shinji, etc.
2) Kills lots of people and eventually mindbreaks into not caring anymore, people consider her "evil"
3) Has an absolutely awful, boring personality, basicaly the beginning and end of the "notice me senpai" meme. Just a cutesy blob that can cook and likes Shirou, not much else there
Given the number of people that like Kohaku, the first two can be forgiven, but the third is what cinches it. Still, a lot of people also hate both her and Kohaku, so there you go.
Oh, and 2d never dies.
Glad it works for you.
Sakura is just as boring as Saber, and Rin is only slightly better.
Best heroine is Ilya.
If she is best girl why is her theme a shitty German ripoff of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star?
Illya is a disgrace to everyone in her entire family. Her mother tried to protect her and how does she pay it back? Oh by trying her to kill her adopted brother over a 10 year grudge that had nothing to do with him in the first place.
She is all talk and can't back any of it up. Even Caster is more respectable.
I like Illya but actually she deserved to die in HF: she knew what was happening to Sakura (which Shirou, Rin and Sakura ignored), and let shit hit the fan without moving a finger. She's responsible for all those deaths more than Sakura who was an unwitting pawn.
In the end, she only sacrificed herself to fix the mess she consciously helped to let it reach to that state while under an hypocritical vow to be Shirou's "ally."
>shitty twintail muh tsundere
>better than female king arthur
No, Saber was interesting all right. She didn't need to be Shirou's love interest. Also agree on Illya (who also favors Saber over Rin).
Rin saves Shirou, this is visually symbolized by her offering him her hand. At the same time, we know Shirou saves Saber, this too is symbolized by Shirou offering her his hand.
It all ends with three of them holding hands together.
B R A V O
You're boring with a dumb design.
>which Shirou, Rin and Sakura ignored
They all deserved to die. What pissed me off about the route was how happy the ending was for these 3. They disregard how they're responsible for the deaths of dozens of innocent civilians and received practically no consequences for it.
I honestly don't think the writer cared about lives outside the cast. The dilemmas in the series just added the illusion of weight. If Shirou's choice in one route results in a child being saved and his choice in the next results in the child's death, it would have been different.
None of those people were innocent. That was the dilemma, the justice Saber and Shirou believed in didn't exist in a world where almost everyone is inherently evil and wished for bad shit to happen to feel better with themselves.
Sakura and Angra Mainyu were actual innocent scapegoats of those "victims" edginess. That was the moral debate Kotomine and Shirou had: was it OK to kill Angra Mainyu when he is actually an innocent being? If Angra lived, Sakura died. Shirou made himself responsible and fought for her sake while Kotomine picked Angra's side.
>None of those people were innocent
There's a difference between having bad thoughts, and enacting upon them. Having the self control to not enact them is what makes us superior as a species.
A lot of the philosophy in HF felt pretty high school. "How can you judge Angra when it hasn't even been born yet?" Give me a break.
>Having the self control to not enact them is what makes us superior as a species.
Except neither Sakura or Angra Mainyu chose to hurt people. They were acting on instinct they put in them. They didn't make any conscious "choice", idiot.
If you want to punish the real responsible party, destroy the world like Gilgamesh would do.
I'm sorry, the way you're writing is a little confusing. Are you advocating thought crime? Man, we all think dark thoughts every once in a while, but thankfully, it's only the select few who play those thoughts out.
The fact though that we can have these thoughts, and choose to control ourselves is what makes us better. We're not animals that just mindlessly react on instinct.
You're fucking retarded: Sakura didn't have control over her actions: she was asleep and possessed by the shadow.
The Shadow was a newborn (doesn't have a consciousness or 'rationality', retard).
They are indeed INNOCENT.
she's good at pleasuring men in sex. She's not good at mutual-loving sex.
>They were acting on instinct they put in them
So no better than a violent animal. I mean seriously, are people actually defending Angra? I can vaguely sympathize that its existence is kind of a raw deal, But no man, you don't side with the monster that's gonna commit genocide.
Because Angra was a person once whose life was fucked up by selfish people and kept being fucked up even after he died and became a bounded phenomena and even after he was summoned by a Servant he kept being fucked up.
I will kill all the worthless people in Shirou's planet for him to get a happy ending.
Can I be honest, OP. I find Kariya to be the worst type moon character.
Have I mentioned anything about Sakura?
Point I'm making is the argument that "the real evil are the thoughts of the people!" is so fucking Hot Topic.
People think bad thoughts, it's just natural, but most people don't do them. Saying they're the ones at fault, and deserve it, because some monster was unknowingly feeding off those thoughts is dumb.
>I will kill all the worthless people in Shirou's planet for him to get a happy ending
Okay geez, I am dealing with someone like this.
Some people are assholes, yeah, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to commit mass genocide on people just cause of that.
You said Rin, Shirou and Sakura 'deserved to die' because they are 'responsible' for the deaths of 'innocent' people >>133671566
The responsible for the deaths of those innocent people are humanity themselves. You can try to point fingers at Sakura (or her allies) or Angra Mainyu, but in the end it was humanity's fault.
To blame someone else would indeed use them as scapegoats. If you would have said "I would have killed Sakura/Angra" to stop them even if they were innocent, it's another thing. But in no way Sakura, Rin or Shirou can be blamed for what happened.
All people are assholes. That's how Nasuverse rolls and works. There are only a few exceptions and if your recall HF, the Shadow first victims were a gang of scumbag rapists. We don't even know what type of people Angra ate, but it seemed lured to the evil ones more.
If you have any notion of moral agency and understand that your continued existence will lead to the peril of others, then yes, you are partly responsible for it. Sakura may not have been in control of the her actions at night, but she understood the situation and accepted that her desire to live would jeopardize the lives of others. She's a victim of tragic circumstances, but to say that she's not partly responsible for those deaths is ridiculous.
Nah homie, that post's a different person. My first response is here. >>133672857
>The responsible for the deaths of those innocent people are humanity themselves
What did those people were killed during the events of HF do that was wrong? Have wrong thoughts?
If you blame Sakura, blame the people for making Angra a thing: which is whole humanity. Sakura was just a fleshy condom for their cum. But it's them who set that load.
And, by the way, she had no idea what was happening. When she found out, not only she stopped sleeping, was ready for Shirou to kill her, but also went to kamikaze herself to end Zouken after her body was butchered.
>What did those people were killed during the events of HF do that was wrong? Have wrong thoughts?
For starters the only victims we saw (rather than being informed via television) were gangsters and rapist who wanted to rape and murder Sakura.
We actually don't know or see who does the Shadow absorbed and feed on in Night 2 and 3. In the first night, it fed on a bunch of psychopaths.
It doesn't look like a coincidence.
Stop making these kinds of thread, anon.
It's not like people knew what the Shadow was doing. Sakura feels sorry and blames herself for Shinji anyway. Because she tends to blame herself over everything.
Nonetheless, the only victims with screentime are in fact dicks who had it coming.
Okay, you know, even if they're dicks, just blindly killing people isn't something that's inherently good. That's one of the morals of UBW even.
I mean Archer rants about how he was basically a glorified murderer, and even if they were "bad people", it was still pretty fucked up.
It's been a very long time since I've read the vn, but I'm positive everyone and their grandmother knew about Sakura's connection to the shadow, yet refused to accept it and feigned ignorance. Anyways, we're not here to find the root of blame for the incident, only to analyze Sakura's decisions in the circumstances she was given and decide whether or not she's responsible for those deaths. Now, I feel for the poor girl, I do, and while I think that Shirou's and her choices were very human and understandable, I don't think that they made the ethically correct choice. Withdrawing from sleep just doesn't cut it when you turn into a horrible death monster the moment you snooze. It's asking for a lot, but she really should have just died
like lord gilgamesh told her to and tried to do, god bless his poor soul
If she is and makes it to top 10 two polls straight without a lot of exposure, what does that mean for the other hundred or so characters.
The answer is simple: she is actually one of the best, but nice bait thread bro.
Problem is, her death would have ultimately been pointless. Cutting off the connection by destroying the grail at its base fixes all problems at the source, instead of having the proxy commit suicide only to still have a tainted grail. Her death is a waste.
And that lord Gil you are talking about didn't give a crap about her being the Shadow, he just wanted to have fun torturing her. He could have easily stopped the Shadow from ever appearing by destroying the grail, but he already concocted his humanity genocide plan, he just thought that he could have some fun torturing this grail by telling her to kill herself without any explanation.
Not actually typing this response for you, since you are trolling, but anyone retarded enough to think Sakura killing herself was in anyway actually the logical thing to do.
Worst TM character is True Assassin. And only because he's so generic and forgettable.
Saber a best, though!
I find it hard to accept her as a tsundere. She's pretty much honestly gunning for Shirou's dick from the moment they meet. The only reason she holds back is because of Sakura. If anything, Shirou is the tsundere.
I'm indifferent towards Sakura. She was badly written, but so is the entirety of Fate/Saty Night, anyways. Heaven's Feels as a whole is not very good, it's mostly the conclusion of everything that pissed me off.
> well Sakura you killed a bunch of people but the only punishment you get is getting scolded by Shirou and I guess being a magical landlord in your sister's place?
> And all of the relatives and friends of the people you killed will never know what happened to them but it's ok because as long as Shirou says she can redeem herself, none of their opinions matter! They're just cannon fodder anyways!
Which leads to the cringe worthy line of thought:
> Shirou's forgiveness > Sakura's own feelings on the matter > a bunch of nameless strangers that got the short end of the whole situation (who may or may not have the same opinion Shirou has about what he did)
Why even bring up that Sakura killed people and how horrible her actions are if it doesn't have any weight on the story other than give shock value through empty numbers? As far as I'm concerned, HF's is basically Sakura getting high with Angry Manjew, going on a killing spree and getting away with it because Shirou says it's ok, and apparently this is the only thing that matters. Forget about all the people that got fucked over her little drama.
It's as disturbing as watching some murderer's girlfriend say she forgives him while completely ignoring the victim or the victim's family's own opinion on the matter. Or the murderer saying it's ok he'll work to redeem himself, even though that isn't for him to decide.
More than Sakura's character, what disturbs me the most is that, more than in any route, Shirou (and by extension, Sakura and Rin) is the most self-centered prick who, in the truest sense, only cares about himself and his girlfriend. Fuck everyone else. And the worst of all? We're told this is a good end and we should feel good for them.
As shit as wormslut is, it's also important to note that in HF Shirou no longer qualifies as a Good character, he switches into full Chaotic Neutral, which makes sense considering his actions afterwards,
And yes, CN can sometimes be egotistic pricks.
Nah, I'd say Saber is the worst girl. Even though I don't particularly dislike her; she's the least interesting. Sakura at least had her crazy living conditions, yandare mode and the best/hottest servant in the series.
>If anything, Shirou is the tsundere.
>Blondie mary sue for otaku waifufags
>shitty stereotypated tsundere
Trust me, she's not the worst
I was talking about rin, I didn't say that Sakura is the best FSN character, just that she is a better character than rin and saber, they are just fanservice for shitty waifufags.
It's not like anyone else is going to post her.
Shirou shouldered the punishment for her. He went above and beyond to save and protect the ones he loves the most.
I find that more admirable than UBW's ideals.
Should I bother with the VN? I found that Bladeworks was almost actively dodging all of the interesting parts of the plot to wallow in boring cliches and philosophy garbage. 50 hours hours seems kind of steep though.
Children without dreams and adults without the will to make them come true. Pitiful, you haven't grown up.
But she's so fucking annoying.
Touko is the closest character to her who's done right, aside from Ritsuka maybe.
>1) Worms, impure, educated prostitute, has fucked Shinji, etc.
First off, she's a virgin in Realta Nua, not to mention all of the worms get removed during the route. Second, if you think getting raped makes you "impure", you need to fuck off back to /pol/. She behaves like a shy virgin, so for all intents and purposes, that's what she is.
>2) Kills lots of people and eventually mindbreaks into not caring anymore, people consider her "evil"
She only ever kills Shinji, Zouken and Kotomine (who happen to be villains). She's outright noted to have extreme mental fortitude and resilience for resisting Angra Mainyu's influence so well, even urging Shirou and Rin to escape from her so she can stop Angra Mainyu on the final day. The point of her character is that she's a good girl forced into the role of a villain.
>3) Has an absolutely awful, boring personality, basicaly the beginning and end of the "notice me senpai" meme. Just a cutesy blob that can cook and likes Shirou, not much else there
Not only is the shy girl archetype she belongs to incredibly popular among anime/manga/VN fans, but she's also one of the most developed characters in the VN, right behind Shirou/Archer and Kotomine. Saber and Rin are just your average action kuudere and twintail tsundere respectively, but Sakura had several interludes dedicated to showing the strengths and weaknesses of her personality.
So yeah, it's just memes, bandwagoning, and double standards that lead people to hate Sakura.
Yup, it's canon. RN is the definite version of the VN, after all.
>multiple civilians get swallowed up by the shadow as well, and by extension Sakura.
No, by extension Angra Mainyu. Sakura had no control over its actions (nor even knowledge at first, as she thought it was a nightmare), and therefore no responsibility. Blaming Sakura for the actions of the shadow is like saying that Ilya attacked Shirou while he was fighting Kotomine in Fate because Kotomine threw grail mud at him.
>Shirou shouldered the punishment for her.
If he had died, I'd agree with this.
But he only lost his original body, got a new one identical to the former, and has regular threesomes with Rider and Sakura.
That's his whole "punishment".
All Sakuras are best. Don't bully, you silly goose.
All Type Moon a shit except for the KnK cast. So you can say pretty much every TM character is the worst to date.
>All Type Moon a shit except for the KnK cast.
But yes, most pointless character in probably any anime or manga.
And that's where the shit taste comes in.
Breeding sow whose only worth is as a cum repository.
>Shirou shouldered the punishment for her
Nope. She was pretty much killed and tortured the entire route, plus the true ending showed she felt guilt, then tried her best to work things out and restore the town over the years, despite being one of the prime victims of Zouken's experiments against her will.
Shirou helped her along the way, but to say she didn't have to suffer along the way for it is such bs it makes me laugh.
>I find that more admirable than UBW's ideals.
I never really found anything about HF Shirou "admirable". Understandable, maybe.
In terms of like, who I'd want aspire to be more like though, it would probably be the one who follows their dream in the face of adversity.
Takeuchi came up with some of the most profitable ideas TM ever had, and at one point, I'm pretty sure he let Nasu live with him for free.
I mean he's the reason The Hisui and Kohaku routes exist, and he's the reason Saber was turned into a girl.
Pretty sure I just gave you the answer, but they do have another artist on board, Koyama.
Basically though, Takeuchi is top dog not because of his art skills, but because his help and his influence is a good chunk of the reason TM is where it is today.
It's also not like Takeuchi illustrates everything anymore. They got tons of manga, light novels, and games like Extra that all got different artists. I mean they got a bunch of different people for GO. All Takeuchi seems to do now a days is run the company and do a drawing every now and then.
All the original composers are still involved in TM's VN work. KATE, James Harris, they've all got credits for tracks in Mahoyo, it just seems Fukasawa took over as lead sound director.
Takeuchi is still the primary artist for Grand Order, responsible for drawing Artoria (+Alter), Mashu, Jeanne, Roman, Lef, and Solomon, all hugely critical characters to the storyline. He does plenty.
>then tried her best to work things out and restore the town over the years
Except that's not better than any informed attribute because we're never shown Sakura actively trying to restore the town (whatever that means, because she can't revive all those 80 people she killed). All she does is watch over it like Rin has been doing, which consists of just doing nothing unless something threatens it, if we go by the prologue. Which heavily implies that until then, she'll just be doing normal things like nothing happened. The prologue shows her living her life normally, with the only addition of having Rider around and I guess having a lot of sex with Shirou.
And seriously, feeling guilt is worth shit if she's not shown doing anything to make up for what she did. Even more, her way to "make up" for everything is to not let what happened put her down and life her life happily... Which means no, she won't do shit to make up for anything and get to spend her days having sex with Shirou and Rider. All those people got fucked over and Sakura effectively got away with it without facing any real consequences.
>all those 80 people she killed
You mean "those three villains"? She has nothing to feel guilty about, because she was just an innocent victim who was eventually able to kill the ones tormenting her and attain the happy life she deserved together with Shirou.
There are some holes in your summary there. She not only watches over the city, she cleaned up the mess, while helping restore Shirou when Rin took off.
Did you not see Rin say the town was back to normal, so much so she was surprised? AM's corruption should have lasting effects on the environment, as we saw in the route, but she took care of that, and sealed the "scar" Rin talked about, which was the leyline, so the Association can't stumble on the rains of the ritual and start shit, and we know they were itching to do so when they saw the gate to Akasha open.
It was about the same as any ending, the repurcussions of the town itself aren't shown in detail. The students in UBW were shown to have needed plastic surgery due to the effects of the Bloodfort, but it's not like we got scenes of Rin visiting her classmates or bringing flowers.
Anf of course Sakura can't bring those people back. Unless you somehow think that self-flagellation or self-harm would be a better end than trying to do whatever you could and living her life now that she is free from captivity instead of spending the rest of her life hating herself. That was the message behind her words, not her brushing off what happened.
>you decided to kill her when a creepy priest likes it and pretty much cum in his slacks at your despair
>you decided to kill her when creepy bug geezer who experimented on said girl tells you it's the right thing, even when he all but says later on he was hoping you would to advance his plans
This is the fanbase I share, this retardation cannot be cured with all my amount of medicine.
Rin says the scar from two years ago is gone, meaning Sakura took care of the aftermath. You do know the ritual takes place because Fuyuki lies on a leyline that has enough distortion to create a hole to Akasha
That is the entire reason why the ritual takes place in Fuyuki. Meaning she sealed that. The only thing missing would be the details. But what we do know is Rin says that distortion is gone now.
They're both good in their own right. True is good because it's a happy ending to all the trials all the characters had to go through and ends the whole VN on a happy note. Normal is good because it's a very sad ending to Sakura and Shirou's efforsts, but based on what this thread was founded on it'll just be people saying that it's a better ending because Sakura suffers more in it.
>not killing her for the sake of grandpa Zouken
>not killing her for the sake of uncle Mapo tofu
I liked Kirei and Zouken way more than Sakura, and since she was related to the source of evil, killing her doesn't seem like a bad thing to do.
But more seriously, everytime I had the choice to kill her, it felt like the only way to go out of the wrong path was to actually do the did(even if Rider would kill me just afterward)
and everytime, killing her resulted into a bad end, leaving with the only choice of keeping on pretending not to notice while Emiya's ideals(even if borrowed) crumble, making him look like the kind die inside(new ideals<<<<<<<hero's ideals)
That shit's like, 10x more addictive than normal Marijuana.
Fuck, once I start breeding [some shit, I want to cook up a variant and call it Awakened Origin
As the stinger for Movie 6 showed,
Lio Shirazumihad a major case of the munchies when he devoured that dude he murdered
Taiga is a perfectly cute and lovable girl, and it is criminal how unloved she is.
Well, wake her up, so I can bully her.
>worst Type Moon character
You're forgetting someone very important.