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Can you imagine UBW and HF routes, if Rin and Sakura switched

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Can you imagine UBW and HF routes, if Rin and Sakura switched their roles?
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>>124368749
Where do I throw my money at?
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>>124368749
Switch roles as in? Matou Rin as UBW heroine and Tohsaka Sakura is HF heroine?
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>>124369122
No, the other way. Tohsaka Sakura UBW heroine, Matou Rin HF heroine.
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>>124369252
UBW wouldn't really change but HF would have drastic a change of Rin having raped Shirou before the route starts.
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>>124369252
Same sort of dynamic in a way; Tohsaka is really not so sure of herself on the inside and puts up a tough front pretending to be the knowledgeable onee-san. Tohsaka Sakura would be more meek on the inside but would put up a tough front when she's on the battlefield. In that situation and knowing what rides on them, it's noted the sisters are almost entirely the same. They'd both put on the same sort of front with people.

Apply the same logic to the other girl.

Even Nasu talks about how similar those girls are in the way they deal with things, so just imagine the result being the same but individual pieces different.
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>>124369314
>Rin having raped Shirou before the route starts.

Haven't laughed on /a/ for a few days. Arigato.
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>>124369252
UBW would probably just gained a little stronger romantic storyline, but HF would likely turned into total erotic horror with villain heroine.
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>>124369479
Well, what little time for romance that Rin and Shirou had was born from them knowing each other, even if from afar. That wouldn't exist with a reversal of roles between the girls. Not likely that Shirou would have even been aware of Sakura then. I can't begin to think of all the changes in HF.
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>>124369347
I am pretty sure Matou Rin would be more open about sex and not be ashamed of it like Sakura. The only problem I see is that Rin would gladly kill herself if she notices that she is the shadow, so HF would just end up as a big bad end for her.
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>>124369681
Like it's been said, the sisters are very alike. Just like how both of them fell for the same guy, even if the situation was reverse they'd likely do the same thing in different ways.

Sakura ends up explaining the contest to him in the first days after he stops Saber from nearly killing her Archer, who's Karna or something in this case I guess? I'm not even pretending to guess what she'd summon here, unless she actually ended up using the old snakeskin this time around.
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>>124369785
>so HF would just end up as a big bad end for her

Shirou could probably convince her to keep on living.
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>>124369840
I mean that outcome would be worth watching enough to see Gilgamesh vs Gilgamesh, both of them fighting over who gets Saber.
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>>124369848
With his dick

Just because the personality changes in some ways, doesn't mean the route itself won't change to reflect that and show a different dynamic, yeah. Sakura also wanted to die, which is kind of why Shirou promised to be her super hero, that would save her from even herself.

In this case he'd do it even more. The route would change to reflect the dynamic.
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>>124369848
See but just with that most of the route changes. So UBW would change but remain fairly similar but HF would just be something else.
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>>124369840
I was just pointing that UBW becoming more of a romance doesn't make much sense as the person I quoted suggested. Wasn't trying to imply that they wouldn't fall for each other.
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>>124369840
Wait who the fuck saves Shirou then? Rin with Medusa? Why would Sakura rush to his house if she ignored his death?
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>>124369984
What? You're not thinking backwards enough, Sakura basically has the role of Rin in this story, even if her individual pieces are changed.

She still saved him on the opening day and went to go save him after realizing shit was bad with Lancer, then explained shit, since she's been training for ten years in this world-line.

Might be doubtful Rin summoned Rider as well, but Rin doesn't have Rin's role in this scenerio, she has Sakura's role in a sense. The individual pieces will chance, some choices will change, but considering their similarities you could see large pieces still hitting similar marks.

Just imagine Sakura, Tokiomi left her everything, ten years she's trained, finally summoned her servant, she's been studying, believes she knows the rules entirely just like Rin did originally in the contest. Knows that Rin goes to visit this boy a lot, she saw him high-jumping once, she doesn't want him dead either. With her elements not fucked up she originally had the same potential as Rin in terms of magic as well, but she's serving Rin's role in this scenerio, even if she's different.

Rin put on a tough front acting strong at times, Sakura would also do it, they both knew they had everything riding on them among other things since Tokiomi left them everything, but what's behind their strong front is different in this case.

Rin Sakura is doing Sakura things at first here, even if the pieces themselves have changed.
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>>124368749
What about shinji? Will he really become a meek beta faggot instead of the asshole we know and love?
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>>124370188
Okay so Sakura would summon EMIYA and Rin would end up with Medusa because grandpa Zouken gives her catalyst. What I think would be different is that Rin would try to test her Medusa against Sakura's EMIYA, pretty early on.
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>>124370241
Shinji can't even handle normal Rin. Can you imagine having to live with the Matou version?
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>>124370241
I doubt Rin would let Shinji step on her because she won't feel sorry for him.
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>>124370188
Like, Sakura that grew up normally and trained every day, putting her pride up front to maintain the image of her family, in a "sort of" sense she'd come off with a similar demeanor as the Rin we know. Even if her personality behind that front is different, as Shirou finds out the real her later as they get close.

Rin who endured shit for ten years yet hung in there for the few good things that came, maybe her demeanor would line up as well, maybe. Lets say it does for now, even if its not exact, since it's being expressed in a certain Rin way.

We can't pretend she'll be super haughty probably; Sakura is noted to have more of a Luvia personality naturally if she's less raped, but due to all the rape it comes out more meek and bitter at times. Obviously there will be some personality repercussions, but figuring out how it would effect her in particular is something.

The pieces still come together probably

>>124370257
It's not necessarily saying Sakura used the pendent catalyst, that subject to debate. Although Rin may have used the mirror since Zouken prepared it in that case, rather than it being a choice.

Would Sakura summon in the same way if given a choice of how she does it, would she summon different than Rin, it's a question.

Rin has the "Fuck up at the worst minute trait" rather than Sakura, or is that just a Tohsaka thing entirely. Meaning if she stayed in the family that trait would stay.

Certain pieces are subject to change here, their servants might be such a piece, if you feel that the situation and their personalities come into the factor enough? Could still happen the same though.
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>>124370336
Not that anon but I do think that when Nasu said that they are similar is that they have two sides the good one and the devilish one. In F/Z you can see that their personalities are not all that different from their grown up versions, that's their core.
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What if Saber was on "Who wants to be a Mooninarie".
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>>124370336
If Sakura summons a different hero then UBW is no longer UBW.
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Okay, you guys always complain that there's no Ilya route, but what would happen in it anyway?

Killing Berserker at the beginning and making Ilya stay at your home? Archer and Rin dying halfway through? Team Kotomine acting aggressively from the beginning killing Saber early? Shirou and Ilya going to the Ryudou temple for help because the Emiya mansion isn't safe anymore? Pairing up with Caster, Assassin and Kuzuki? Dark Sakura and Zouken being killed by Gil and Lancer? The true end being that Ilya dies for whatever reason and Shirou becoming EMIYA? The good end being that she gives birth to Shirou's child and then passing away because the homunculus body is reaching its limits? Is that what you want?!
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>>124370468
She wins by sheer luck and guessing right.
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>>124370448
That's one way to see it

Though I'd just say they're very similar naturally in many ways, and if Fate has shown you anything it's that people that are too similar tend to grate on each other more than anyone. Especially if they're similar in most respects except for one big one.

Shirou and Archer for example, Luvia and Rin, Sakura and Rin, or Kotomine and Shirou. Nasu says "Two people that are almost exactly the same" from what I recall about the sisters.

Course they do naturally have differences, but you can have differences and still be similar. Kotomine and Shirou aren't a mirror of each other.
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>>124370494
Wasn't the Ilya route supposed to result from a branching choice in HF?
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>>124370509
Nah, she tries to phone a friend for help.
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>>124370494
More loli femdom that you could ever imagine.
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>>124370494
My guess is that Shirou early on meets her at the park and they build up a relationship, Shirou doesn't partner up with Rin and gets Saber stolen by Caster which she uses to defeat Berserker. I don't know after maybe Medusa helps Shirou rescue Illya?
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>>124370545
This

Far side routes share a base, and near side routes share a base. Sakura and Ilya are the far side heroines.
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>>124370494
It'll go something like this
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>>124370561
>Phones in Kiritsugu
She fucked.
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>>124370599
Well I'm not entirely sure if that applies. I mean all three routes result from stuff you do during the opening three days; Fate and UBW literally boiling down to a single choice.

I remember something about the supposed Ilya route branching later though.
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>>124370534
Exactly. Only Arturia seems to love those similar to her.
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>>124370545
>>124370599
Source?
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>>124370788
Various interview's about Ilya's hypothetical route

Original game was supposed to be two near side, and two far side. Ilya's route was scrapped in the end because it would have delayed the game another half a year.

There were also some lesser routes scrapped along the way; Shinji route, Caster route, etc.
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>>124368749
So is Sakura Archer's master now and Rin is Rider's or is that the same?
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>>124370812
>She had a personal route during development. However, if that were made, then the release date of Fate/Stay Night would be delayed by another half a year. Thank God.
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>>124370832
Yes most likely.
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>>124370812
>Original game was supposed to be two near side, and two far side.
I never heard of this before until now. I knew Illya had a route but I don't remember Nasu ever stating it would have branched off HF.
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>>124370880
>Nasu ever stating it would have branched off HF.

It's not that it would have branched off HF exactly, that's like saying one route is more important that the other. They would have sprung from the same far side base at least.

However just like Fate and UBW, it probably would have been the difference of a single choice in the first three days.
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mind of steel route when?
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>>124370957
You want to kill Rin?
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>>124370920
I think meeting Illya a second time during the 2nd or 3rd day could have easily been an opener to her route.
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>>124370880
Basically game was planned to be released in two parts. First named "Fate/Stay Night" that would contain Saber and Rin routes and second named "Fate/Other Night" that would contain Sakura and Illya routes. That's also why is Sakura route so different from previous two. It was originally simply part of different game.
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>>124371039
I remember the first name being Fate Stay Night Unlimited Blade Works and then the second game would be Fate Stay night something else.
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>>124371039
Wasn't Nasu lazy and combined the incomplete components of both Illya's and Sakura's route to make Heaven's feel? The shadow being a on the spot made villain?
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>>124368749
I wanted to know what will happen if tokiomi give rin to zouken instead of sakura? Can rin withstand the worms?
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>>124371039
That's like saying "That's why Akiha and Arcuied's routes are so different, they're different games".

It's the same game even if its split up, both parts are necessary to understand it, but near side and far side means a lot in Nasuverse. Just like how there's Extra which is the near side, and CCC which is the far side in another part of the universe. Guy keeps reusing this concept every time.

Maid routes might be very different from Arc and Ciel, but they're definitely part of it.
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>>124371131
Not exactly on the spot at all

>Black Shadow [??]
>Unidentified object.
>It gave the impression of a jellyfish on land. The Black Shadow was impervious to conventional attacks, and the target could only await death in its presence.
>We ran out of ideas after Saber and Rin routes, so the Black Shadow was a surprise antagonist after much pondering.
>It was a favorite of the Chief Director. In terms of how much love the Black Shadow got, its event CG and wallpapers were crafted with much care and effort.

They thought of the first two routes first, maybe some details were set for the final route as well, but they didn't have an antagonist yet or anything. After thinking it over for awhile, they made this, and it become the staff favorite in a sense. They made it still back in the planning stages of the original rather than just "On the spot after the other ones came out" like someone just making unnecessary sequels, but they first two routes were thought out more first.

Shadow is Nasu's favorite it seems
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>>124371214
I mean you say lazy and incomplete, both of those statements are far from truth, even if they're hard to believe. They may have thought of this after, but they put a lot of care and effort into it apparently as the favorite of the directors.

Saying "On the spot" gives it the wrong sort of feeling, like its reaching.
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>>124371214
>>124371248
I'll be honest the shadow doesn't look interesting at all and it does feel last minute. They seem to be trying to hide that with saying that it was his favorite.
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>>124371343
And you seem to be reaching by trying to confirm that this thing was hated by even the creators, to justify how you also dislike it. You kind of want them to say its shit so you can feel confirmed in knowing its shit. When that's really just kind of your opinion.

Though that's all I can really say in a neutral sense, If I tried saying it's good or bad after that then I'd sound a hypocrite.
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>>124368749

I want to kiss and marry Matou Rin.
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Reminder that the creation of Mordred, destruction of Camelot and Saber fighting in the grail wars was all part of his master keikaku to get Arthuria a bf. Love prevails.
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>>124371380
What are you on about? Did I hit a soft spot? I was merely asking a question before.
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>>124368749

I honestly don't know how Rin would handle the worms, but I'm almost not sure if she would have time to hone her crush on Shirou if she was scissoring Rider nonstop.
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>>124371214
>We ran out of ideas after Saber and Rin routes, so the Black Shadow was a surprise antagonist after much pondering.

Yeah, I could tell.

"We need an antagonist for the third route of our game about legendary heroes from the past fighting each other."

"How about a jellyfish crossed with a giant blob?"
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>>124369681

Both girls watched Shirou fail at the high jump, which was apparently the sexiest failure known to womankind as it made both of them fall in love with him.
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>>124371440
Matou Rin, if anything like Sakura, would have known Shirou for years at that point, though she probably would have been fucking him senseless already.
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>>124371440
>I honestly don't know how Rin would handle the worms
Like Sakura? They both share the same potential which grants them protection against the worms mana sucking.
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>>124370336
>Sakura is noted to have more of a Luvia personality naturally if she's less raped

So, you're saying that she becomes an OHOHOing fancy lady after Shirou makes her his waifu in HF?

...I can approve of this.
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>>124371478
And out of all the things he could favorite the chief decided to favorite the jellyfish of darkness. Pretty funny.
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>>124371141
CCC didn't exist until Extra became a success though.
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>>124371407
I just said how you were coming off about this; like you were making it clear already you wanted to believe it a certain way, or were already decided. The creators surely supported your views that it wasn't handled, or else they were just trying to hide it.

Said I wasn't giving my opinion on the character itself in the last post or else I'd sound a hypocrite whether I liked it or hated it, so I was just discussing it neutrally how played out. Characters I like or hate, I'll play devil's advocate if someone's being too closed off on the subject and play different sides. Seems to be how I get in a lot of character discussions for this franchise.

Difference in ideals I suppose
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>>124371620
No she doesn't become Luvia. Sakura is Sakura raped or not raped she will be a yamato nadeshiko.
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>>124371620
She's showing some Luvia self in Ataraxia at least.

Nasu compared a normal Sakura to more of that doctor's daughter in Kagetsu I've heard.
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>>124371343

I liked it because it looked so incomplete before it became Dark Sakura's frumpy dress. The image of an empty suit without a person inside is oddly appropriate.
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>>124371393

I thought he just wanted to give Arturia a dick for shits and giggles.
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>>124371808
Nah man Merlin is all about the true love. He knew what Arthuria needed and got it for her, fuck camelot anyway they were a bunch of traitorous fags.
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>>124371781
It's certainly like ORT, that inhuman quality to it like a hole in the world does add to the appeal. Like a horror movie monster you can't quite grasp the form of yet. There's something very particular if you can get that feeling down.That type of creature isn't meant to be a character with motivations, feelings, fears; it's meant to be beyond understanding.
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>>124370974
i thought it was implied that everyone dies in mind of steel with the exception of shirou. hes basically kerry 2.0
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>>124371879
I mean before they ruined that quality, by fusing it with Sakura.

Something you can't comprehend has plot armor, until you can understand it. At which point you can overcome it. Shadow was beyond everyone, until it become something with motives and feelings.
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>>124371620
I think he's saying If Sakura grew up in the Tohsaka household she would be Ojou-samakura
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>>124371889
Kotomine says that Shirou will win and that he'll kill everyone to achieve that. If you've read the novel I'm sure you know that trusting anything he says isn't a good idea though.
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>>124371889
Pretty much everyone dies, maybe even half the town as he catches it on fire somehow in that ending, just like Father.

Breaks down realizing what he's done, adopts a kid he finds, shoves a sword in him, etc.

I can only see unfortunate irony in his near future.
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Luvia is the people's heroine. A bit character in the VN that slowly grew in popularity and relevance as the years went by. One line in FSN. A minor role in HA. A playable character in UC. A side character in Prisma. And finally a serious mainline role in Case Files. So that begs the question.

LUVIA ROUTE WHEN?
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>>124371934
Great way of ruining a character, rather have her get raped by Zouken.
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>>124371620
>So, you're saying that she becomes an OHOHOing fancy lady after Shirou makes her his waifu in HF?
Against Rin Yes. Remember beach scene from HA? (Sorry I can't find that screen now)
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>>124371694
>doctor's daughter in Kagetsu
who?
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>>124371959
Luvia is a meme character like Rider. She is fine to look at and have funny jokes about, but taking her seriously would be a disaster.
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>>124372028
She can't maintain the facade though.
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>>124372031
She's a character implied to be Shiki's first lay I think.
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>>124372031
Tokie Jinan
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>>124372046
The sad thing is that Prisma is what turned her into a meme character. She's kind of interesting if you know about her past.
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>>124371959
>>
>>124371889
>>124371936
>>124371953


I have kind of a weird pet theory that I'd love for some anons to poke holes in. Basically, what if Mind of Steel is the ending that leads to Shirou becoming Archer? It's certainly the ending where he remains true to his ideals no matter the cost, and I can see him turning into a cynical jackass who hates his past self if he has to kill all three of the women he loves.
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>>124372069
>>124372072
Doesn't look like a OHOHOHO to me.
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>>124372028
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>>124372079
She's not treated as a meme character in Prism, people just took it that direction and made her into that.

Just like how they made a meme about Rin, Saber, or Sakura when they get screentime at all. Being at all in the limelight means you'll get your share of shit, and become a meme. It's what it means to be popular at all.

It doesn't mean the show your were involved in made you shit or a meme who didn't matter. If you read the manga she's treated well enough, and still has serious moments occasionally. People don't care though, they'll find some nickname to call this character and decide it upon that much.
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>>124372113
She's supposed to be a homely wife like character.
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>>124372148
Well that makes sense.
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