Is it me or did the Fourth Holy Grail war feel more like a war than Fate, UBW and HF? VN just feel so flat compared to the all out battles by Urobuchi. Now I see why people keep saying how nice F/SN would be if Uro wrote it.
Well, you know, one had to be a VN with all that implies. An LN can cut out all the chaff and stuff, plus it helps that the major players are mostly vetted adult mages in their prime rather than Shirou who needs training wheels.
Fifth war was kind of a mess. Most of the contestants were too young and unprepared. Shirou and Kuzuki got in by accident, Rin was prepared but she's a nice girl who was acquainted to most of the participants, Shinji is useless and a joke, Sakura didn't want to fight, Kotomine didn't want the grail, Zouken was planning on skipping this round.
Illya was kind of the only one who was ready to fuck shit up.
Some battles in the VN are more climatic than anything in Zero, because the only really climatic battle in Zero was Kiritsugu vs. Kotomine and ultimately it was left unfinished for plot reasons.
>the Einzbern letting some outsider Magus Killer actas their Master
>secret alliance between the Church and a Magus
>some serial killer who doesn't know anything about the grail war letting his Servant loose
none of the Fuyuki Grail wars could be classified as standard, they all failed for various reasons. Well maybe except for the 4th and 5th one, they're both shut down by Emiya
>Is it me or did the Fourth Holy Grail war feel more like a war than Fate, UBW and HF?
F/Z is about a bunch of people fooled into the entire "Holy Grail War", all meeting terrible fates.
F/SN is about uncovering the hoax that is the Holy Grail War, while uncovering the ritual that is Heaven's Feel.
really not concerning Fate/Zero
Kerry learns that the Grail is cursed, but he doesn't know by what, how it happened, why it happened. He doesn't learn the real motivations of the Three Families.
They could have made it better. They could have made them both shirtess
My bad, what I was trying to say is that in both series, discovering the truth behind the grail war is not the primary objective, but rather a result of the MC's trying to fight in the war. Their goal was never uncovering the truth behind the ritual. Kerry never finds out, but the audience does.
The 5th war would've probably been more like the 4th had Bazett and Caster's initial master not gotten fucked early on.
5th war was more a psychological battle and more close combat then the 4th and in a way I like it a lot more and the conflicts are more interesting due to being more personal.
>discovering the truth behind the grail war is not the primary objective
That's only for the masters families that aren't Kariya and Tokiomi, hell you could even say Kotomine did it to learn what the Grail really was since Risei basically clued him in before since Risei was the 3rd war church mediator.
Except Kerry never 'found out' instead he went through the whole damn thing sacrificing his waifu and friend with benefits/partner in murder and only found out something was wrong when the grail woke up and picked him as most eligable wish maker.
Ofc then it rubbed in his face how fucking stupid his dream was and Kerry's life went down the toilet.
The fifth war was an accident. Of course it didn't feel like a war, it wasn't one. Only one of the masters actually wanted the Grail, most of the others got pulled into it because the Grail needs seven masters, regardless of whether or not who it chooses wants to fight.
While we're on the topic, there is also a certain tension that lacks in Zero
I'm well aware that some of the very first confrontations in both stay night and zero result sometimes in nothing, but at least stay night never had 6 Servants in the same place resulting in one of them walking away injured and all the others fine
I can forgive it a little more for stay night since it's character-driven as well as plot-driven. Of course Kerry does have some good characterization as well, but a lot of it was lost from the light novel, and I doubt people like OP even read it. The result is that the main character feels a bit too distant to the audience for the first half of the anime. While you may call that a failure of the adaptation, it's also true in some respect of the LN, where until his backstory is explained, his utilitarianism will seem over the top
Which is why it's no wonder a lot of Japanese watchers got disappointed by the 5th HGW.
well yeah, honestly she would have been the biggest threat to him
Having just finished Zero, I'd have been kicking myself for days afterwards if I'd watched it before reading the VN, particularly HF.
Kotomine is so fucking amazing in it when you know what his deal is.
Shirou wanted to save everyone
Rin wanted to be a winner
Sakura didnt want to fight
bazett wanted to save the blue man
Ilya realizes she want oniichan
Assassin's master died
caster already knows what the grail is and just wants to be with soichiro
>Shirou wanted to save everyone
That's not Shirou's reason for fighting in the grail war
>bazett wanted to save the blue man
She's kinda bad at doing that
Urobuchi can't depict characters like Nasu does
He doesn't love people
That's why I find F/SN to be more fulfilling experience than Zero, even if it was too long and pacing was bad, it has shitty porn, there were things that could have been done better. But it was Nasu's Fate/stay night.
I think it's insulting to say things like "I want my preffered author to rewrite the work of other author with different mindset because I didn't like it".
>Assassin's master died
What? This one just doesn't look right.
>caster already knows what the grail is and just wants to be with soichiro
You know, it's most likely true, but I never thought about this one. But is it ever confirmed?
Everything else is fine.
Shirou's inital reason for joining the grail war and not quitting and being bazerkah'd was to minimize casualties general and keep any masters from doing shit that would drag innocents in. That was his motivation and reason to join and participate in most of the grail war.
Saving everyone does not come up in the slightest untill the very end it's not the reason he went along with it.
Unless your refering to Kerrys ideals and his psychopathic obcession with them.
>Saving everyone does not come up in the slightest untill the very end it's not the reason he went along with it.
Minimizing casualties and keeping masters from doing evil shit is his way of attempting to save everyone. He can't, and he knows he can't. but he is determined to try.
Kerry doesn't want to try to save everyone. He's just trying to save the most with the least amount of sacrifices.
Also because Nasu is a hack and the Butcher is clearly a better writer.
>What? This one just doesn't look right.
Yeah, I don't get it either.
Fake assassin: No will, just wants a good fight. Real assassin: Wants to be THE ONE.
>You know, it's most likely true, but I never thought about this one. But is it ever confirmed?
Yes, HA goes over it a second time. Also, Carnival Phantasm references it repeatedly.
I think it was a matter of audiences. FSN was geared towards kids in high school, hence the Shirou self-insert and harem. Zero feels like it was geared towards the same audience who first read FSN but now are adults.
I thought FZ had better writing than FSN.
FSN was specifically designed as a dual-audience "game", that's why it translates so well to PG-13 in Realta Nua. Otaku street cred from TH etc just got them off the ground.
I know it's bait but I'm correcting what you said for the sake of lurkers.
The second he figured out Grail will destroy humanity, he bailed the hell out. He's a retarded idealist, but he's not a complete psychopath.
He just wanted genuine world peace. And the thing is, if Einzberns didn't screw everything up so badly in the last war with their special snowflake Avenger, he would've gotten it too.
Am I the only one that watched F/Z before reading F/SN and still enjoyed both? As far as the "baaw baaw kids ;-;" goes, doesn't it make logical sense that everyone is young in F/SN if you watch F/Z first? So why the fuck would anyone who watched F/Z first for whatever reason complain about F/SN having kids in it when F/Z pretty much proves its logical? Unless you're a retard
Pretty much all the screentime is focused on the core characters and the rest get nothing.
Gil, Lancer, Rider, Assassin they probably get 30 minutes each of true screentime.
Caster and her master get nothing as actual characterization except for team rocket shit and one little scene.
Heck True Assassin who appear only in one route get better screentime and characterization than most of them which is pretty fucking weird.
Compared to other games of the genre that rubbish
I wish there were more fullblown Master vs Master battles in FSN. Most of the time it's Servant vs Servant with Masters standing there as Pokemon trainers.
I really liked the Rin vs Ilya addition in the anime.
You want to argue? I'll bite
Development of Kerry and Saber it's that Urobuchi's set-up thing about rubbing into moralfags's faces what they're worth(according to Urobuchi). Avid Zerofags prefer Saber in Zero because she didn't have a moeblob side, but I don't think it ruined her anyhow in Stay night.
Kotomine's development in Zero is what we knew from HF explained to him by Gil. Is it better than his flashbacks in HF or his meaningful relationship with Shirou? While I enjoyed his appearances in Zero, his development in HF felt more emotional.
And he doesn't really serves as foil to Kiritsugu in the anime since ufotable didn't find a way to develop him like the novel does and cut a number of important scenes.
Waver's development is just tsundere growing up, I didn't even like him since he was there to make Rider look even better than he is.
>he thinks the grail war is an actual war
This is what watching F/Z first gets you.
Except how does he get world peace? Humanity by it's very nature is self destructive, self serving, violent, greedy and cruel to incredible degree. The only way the grail could fix that is to take away any and all negative emotions and instincts from humanity or kill em all.
Killing them all doesnt work because humanity cant be at peace because it's dead.
The other option takes away half of what makes human's 'human' in the first place so all you have left are a bunch of 'not humans' magically lobotomized to fufill Kerry's wish.
But hey if you can come up with a way to make humans stop killing raping and hurting each other emotionally and pysically on both the small and large scales without doing something so horrifically evil it makes history's greatest monsters look like saints then sure let's hear it.......
Who mentioned Rin?
That post was in respoce to >>122610053 claiming that hte uncorrupted grail would have granted his wish without doing anything bad like the corrupted one would have.
And how many are there in Zero?
Kerry and Fast Wheels
Kerry and Kotomine
Tokiomi and Worms-kun
Any I'm missing? If we're counting 1-hit kills like Kerry and COOL and Kotomine and Tokiomi you may also count Kotomine and Bazett and Kotomine and Tohsaka on F/SN
>muh epic battles
TM works should have never been animated.
>Her plan fails because God Hand, Shirou saves the day through asspull sword
>gets done in before final battle, Shirou saves the day
>kidnapped, Shirou and Lancer save the day
>acts as a mere power battery in the climax, Shirou, Archer and Saber save the day
>fumbles against Sakura, Shirou saves the day
Her role is to come up with plans and give exposition.
>jobs to berserker
>fights assassin to a draw while her master's life is in jeopardy elsewhere
>fights some skeletons
>jobs to kuzuki
>opts not to save her new master so she can watch her former master fight and gets lancer killed as a result
>fights assassin again while important things are happening elsewhere
>blows up the grail and dies
>fights rider but she gets revived so it doesn't matter
>kills a caster that was going to die anyway and was putting up no resistance
>tries and fails to destroy shadow
>gets eaten by mud and becomes mostly irrelevant for the remainder of the route
Outside of her own route Saber isn't much more useful than Rin.
The fifth war is glitched and bugged to shit with the strongest servants ever summoned stomping around with absurdly powerful masters who have no idea what they're doing, it occurred 10 years early and the only two people who really know what's going on have been manipulating everything for their own amusement.
>Picking anyone else but perfection
There's only one Caster who isn't shit.
Have fun grinding.
The story is shit
You can take one Servant from the Fifth War and put him in the Fourth
War, replacing the 4th War Servant of that class.
Who do you choose?
>There's only one Caster who isn't shit.
If you go Caster, invest heavily in Magic and Constitution/Endurance. Don't raise Strength past D rank, and don't invest in Endurance past C. Caster's highest growth rates are in Magic, Agility, and Luck.
>Looking at this chart I realize that Medusa can use Cybele to insta-kill all but Saber, Gil, and possibly Lancelot
Why the FUCK doesn't Shinji/Sakura ever have her use that shit, I get that it reveals that she's Medusa but it doesn't really matter as long as you kill the Servant/Master that sees you use it.
D rank Strength is pretty overkill when you combine it with Spirit Theft. Definitely glad I got it that high, but does C rank Strength make it even better? Or does it start to become diminishing returns?
Medea is one of the strongest and most terrifying Casters around, her only flaw (and it is a crippling flaw) is that Magic Resistance is so common.
There is no standing against her if you cannot brush her spells away.
That just notes how fucking powerful everyone else in the 5th war is, reinforcing the initial point.
Because the fourth war had adult mages at their peak who were more skilled, knowledgeable and powerful. Less dumb kids like Ilya, Shirou, Rin and Shinji.
Don't get me started on how shitty and bland Stay's servants are by comparison. Rider sucks and got killed by a human. Caster is just a waifu. Assassin is stuck to one area.
Zero >>>>>>>> Stay
Considering the power rankings are vague as fuck anyway, that would probably place her above Archer and maybe Rider.
She's not strong for her war, but she's still goddamn strong.
I don't get how she is so weak when a lot of her spells are B rank at least and she has A rank Rain of Light.
Only Saber or Berserker can nullify any damage from most of her spells while everyone else couldn't even block B rank spells.
>more skilled, knowledgeable and powerful
More skilled and knowledgeable yes, more powerful no. With the given exception of Kotomine and Kayneth.
Kiritsugu was a specialist, but not particularly impressive in terms of capacity. Tokiomi sucked and Ryuunosuke was a civilian psychopath. Kariya was a dying cripple. Waver is bottom-of-the-line.
Contrast Kuzuki with mountain man assassin snake style, Rin with genius prodigy skills, and Shirou whose body is made of swords.
You're not even trying at this point.
Blame Nasu, she's officially weaker than Gilles.
Doubt it. Medea has been referred several times as the weakest in the 5th war, not to mention she is already low teir by Nasu since she doesn't have the ability to summon dragons. Don't get me started on the prep time it takes for her to even get going.
Well she can cast gravity magic fast enough to instantly freeze saber in place, fly, and teleport at will. And she has the same agility rank as Saber who can at least move fast enough to not be completely overwhelmed by Rider's speed. It's like she never learned the art of kiting those annoying martials.
Also, doesn't she prevent Rider from being able to fight in Ubw, or was that Kuzuki's assassin skill?
Medea is basically like a joker. She has her own servant, she has a badass master who can stand up to other servants, and she has a Noble Phantasm that lets her completely change the game.
She personally sucks in combat, but Casters tend to be more support-type servants so it's not really a surprise.
>Stronger than anyone
He's a French knight who turned out to be batfuck crazy, hired a dude to "summon demons" for him, and dabbled in the rituals himself when he wasn't busy with hardcore kiddy fiddlin'. And the guy loved his kiddy time.
You'd be hard pressed to find a shittier candidate for Caster.
Their ability as Casters was not what I was challenging, it was the fact that they even qualify for Caster in the first place. Much like Gilles, but at least he was accused of dabbling in black magic, even if the charges were probably bullshit.
>How good is the EMIYA theme going to be?
How the fuck are we supposed to know?
I actualy don't remember when it plays for the first time in UBW.
Was it for Archer vs. Shirou?
Archer's theme isn't EMIYA.
It just quotes the beginning
Fuck off with your bullshit.
The real Grail doesn't grant wishes by connecting to the Root, it connects to the Root to perform the Third True Magic. The lesser grail is the thing that is supposed to grant wishes, but that's just a lie made to encourage magi and Servants to participate in the war.
Because we already get Archer's theme with this BD.
>Unlimited Blade Works 5:30
>Rin:Remembrance ~ Shoukan 2:35
>Shirou:Akai Kioku ~ Invocation 2:01
>Face to Face 1:00
>Souls to Fight 3:39
>Vortex of Fate 4:28
>Rin's Melody 1:03
>A Sword,No Words 1:51
>Purple Shade 2:19
>Into the Battles 1:26
>Rin:my wish 0:59
>Two Hearts 1:51
>Reason to Kill 1:24
>Fist of desperate ~ Awakening 4:27
>Dark Glow 2:52
>Rule Breaker 3:43
>Shirou:Nowhere to go 2:03
>Each Choices,Each Steps 5:39
>Far Away from You 2:10
>THIS ILLUSION 4:04
>count it from zero 4:34
>down in the zero 4:55
Doesn't stop them from having different themes.
Especialy in this adaption
Responding to bait
Gen is a hack, interesting ideas but he's piss poor at executing them however I enjoyed Zero despite hating everything Type Moon that isn't Tsukihime or Kara no Kyoukai, Zero had its moments and was alright as a prequel since it had source material to go on which Gen did wonders with the adaptation. I'd say it's decent, not great or spectacular as everyone claims but it's certainly not terrible either.
As for being mediocre Fate/Zero is just the same Gen Urobuchi drivel using the same themes of despair he always does in all of his work to make them seem less vapid than they actually are, I wonder if he legitimately believes he's creating a work of art or not, I'm really confused on that one. He reminds me way too much of Christopher Nolan and his pseudo intellectualism.
>no one ever talks about Battle Moon Wars
That game has a GOAT OST
It's not a real Type-Moon product.
It's fun and cheesy, but there's not much to discuss about it.
Haruna 2nd is easily the best track though.
>I love all of the TM characters and works without any major complaints.
That's great, but I don't understand how you can do that.
I was really really into Tsukihime when I read it back then and it was one of the reason I learned Japanese (I tried rereading it one year ago or so and it's pretty amazing that I actually managed to go through that but that's another story) and FSN is one of the very first I read in japanese (it was hard but fulfilling)
But now when I see something Fate related it just seems trite, I reread part of FSN not long ago and honestly I wouldn't even put it in my top 50 eroge
Shakespeare has First Folio, right? A reality dictator seems like a tool with a lot more overall utility than CTHULHU FHTAGN
Plus Willie's a baller.
Nasu isn't a hack, Sakura is a good character, and people bitch too much especially about how only the first entries to the series are good and anything beyond that is just a cashcow being a shitty hack that aren't worth checking out.
After this guy with stats like these managed to become the end boss in one story, no else has the right to complain about stats mattering.
People don't expect Dio to be the villain, but then every arc of Jojo happens. It's all about how you use it.
Nasu loves that Christian mythology, but the Priest just happened to be the bad guy this time. Even then he wasn't really bad, Ciel was a good guy, and Karen was also good. It's why the entire Fate story is sort of built on this sort of stuff, with Jesus cup.
Also loves Indian mythology, and a few other types in particular.
I still play it from time to time, it's still as fun as when I first played it.
I only read the Fate Route.
Why is Saber so perfect?
Because she's by far the cutest girl. Read the other routes, although there is less romance Saber gets even better.
>Can't win against Saber
Well if Saber has Avalon sure, but then she wins against everyone
There's a reason secondaries and newfriends are more drawn to F/Z than F/SN. It has nothing to do with production, as UBW more than matches F/Z, Characters, or setting. F/Z fans think that the show is refreshing. That compared to something as generic and typical as F/SN, F/Z is far more original and interesting, free of conventional harem hijinks that F/SN is full of. It has guns, violence, gore and bloodshed. So bold and mature. What's not to love?
These things are lost on someone who's read Butch since before he was normalfag famous with dokes and shit. Someone who's read Kikoukugai and SnU and Inferno and what not realizes that F/Z wasn't original, wasn't creative, but just a rehashing of those old ideas, done worse. Meanwhile, F/SN is an amazingly significant work in hindsight. Compared to the eroge of the 90s, it was one of the first to try and incorporate a dense mythology along with dating sim elements, and to shift the emphasis to the plot from the characters. It was not generic, but archetypal, spawning many imitators, which is why there are so many similar Eroge. In addition, though F/SN is campy and sometimes has heavy shifts in tone, it spends more time developing its characters than F/Z, and doesn't jam in unnecessary drama and gore where it isn't needed. Ryuunosuke's character was literally all shock factor, and Kotomine's motivations in F/Z are confusing at best, Contrived at worst. Saber had virtually no character outside of serving kerry- few of the servants did.
That's ultimately why so many secondaries prefer F/Z. F/Z fags see it as a unique, creative show with a dark twist, compared to the generic crap that is F/SN. F/SN fags see F/SN as a genre defining work, F/Z as a shitty grimdark cashgrab. It's all a matter of perspective, lack of knowledge by the secondaries, and a little bit of shit taste.
>or Medusa though.
>Muh mystic eyes, he'd be dead in seconds, 10000x confirmed
Actually Nasu says Medusa is entirely fucked in that fight
>Rider vs. Lancer
>The two boasting the most outstanding speed in the game. Rider, able to move like a bullet and race around the battle field vs Lancer, able to counter attackers with a lance with the speed of gods, while standing still. In average speed, Rider is faster, but in immediate maximum output, Lancer will win. >While Rider has several different types of Noble Phantasms, Lancer also has protective ability from rune sorcery, hence counter measures from her mystic eyes. Against an expert monster exterminator like Lancer, one who has a monster alignment such as Rider might seem to be in for a tough fight....!?
The solution is ALWAYS runes
Goddamn I want to see Caster Cu
>Fate Fags don't want to admit that Fate/zero was the better overall series because it's by a different and better writer.
One day you're going to have to accept the fact that it's better.
>one who has a monster alignment such as Rider might seem to be in for a tough fight....!?
A tough fight is not an unwinnable fight, though it's clear that Lancer has the advantage.
>Is it me or did the Fourth Holy Grail war feel more like a war than Fate
Every fucking time.
Every fucking time people forget that the 5th came 40 years too early, nobody was prepared after the disaster of the 4th and that random fucks were chosen to be masters for the most part in the 5th.
Holy shit pay attention I'm fucking BEGGING you.
Gotta read up on those potential match-ups
> Archer vs. Assassin
>If it's a straight out death match, then Archer will win. But Assassin is an oddity that fights under different battle conditions from the other Servants. While many Servants are offensive, Assassin is defensive. At a Servant-killing battlefield like Ryuudouji and with Caster's anti-sorcery defensive barrier, sorcery and Noble Phantasm power is decreased significantly. As a result, if it's not a powerful Noble Phantasm, then he won't take a fatal wound. Which means that the battle between the two is clearly swordsmanship. With Archer having his sniping sealed off to him due to the terrain effect, could Archer actually lose...?
>Archer vs Rider
>If you think about it, Archer will win, but at long range, Rider would be? Just like that question, their compatibility is not very good. Since both aren't fixated on the methods of winning, they'd definitely both choose a low-risk and high-return type of warfare.
>Even if Archer takes out a Saber-class holy sword, he doesn't have enough Prana to draw on to maximize it, so it'd be hard to for him to attack Bellerophon. What determines victory or defeat is whether Aias on its own would be enough to block Bellerophon perhaps...?
>Assassin vs True Assassin
>If it's just Servant vs Servant, then without complaint, True Assassin would have the better chance of victory. Right, Kojirou doesn't have any means of breaking through Zabaniya. But there's more to it. The problem of Zabaniya is that it's not immediate death. If a normal heart gets destroyed by it, then the person dies immediately but the opponents are Servants. And especially against Kojirou, who has a strong spirit alignment, even if his heart is destroyed he still will have some fighting power left in him. Right in the interval after TA uses his Noble Phantasm, Assassin could close the gap and use Tsubame Gaeshi. Which means....it would be a draw since both of them would end up dead...?
Rune didn't save him from Kirei, nor did it help against being killed by Assassin. Needless to say how shit Assassin is.
Fate would feel more like a HGW if you got everyone perspective.
Medea actually does shit besides camping.
Ilya actually does shit besides camping her fortress.
Lancer does A LOT of scouting. Instead we only see him versus Archer, and him building up the hype to die.
Fake Assassin does nothing, so thats fine.
Rider does do little man than setting up her Blood Fort.
Its honestly a shame they didn't try to adopt what was going on. Its a lot of screen time wasted.
Kuzuki vs Caster
Welcome to the beginning of the unorthodox rumble series! The end of the ugly battle of the married couple.....yeah well, just as the adage goes about the loser being the one who falls for the other first, it'd end with Caster being the cause of her own defeat no matter what! You can do it, wakaokusama! ....would be the punchline I started off with, but if both were really serious it wouldn't even be a "fight". Kuzuki, who'd kill the opponent instantly before being noticed, and Caster, who has overwhelming firepower to annihilate the enemy with once the battle starts. Basically, whoever gets the first hit wins without question, would be the "conditional battle".
Rin vs Kotomine
Ah. Rin has the better specs, but 80% of the time, Kotomine would win. It's not easy for humans to conquer trauma printed into them and what this fraud of a priest excels at is opening up the trauma of the enemy.
Since Rin has the goof-up girl trait, she has a lot of traumatic experiences, and having these poked at would make her unable to take advantage of her true potential.... Of course, even if they didn't know each other, Rin would still have a hard time. The executor side of Kotomine, a combat expert with over 10 years of experiences in killing magi, would be the counter of Rin's talents.
Taiga vs Kuzuki
(I'm ignoring this completely)
>nor did it help against being killed by Assassin
Hey, he was kicking Assassin's ass until the shadow stepped in, the SAME shadow that also kills Saber, Archer, Gil, and Berserker need I remind you.
>nor did it help against being killed by Assassin
Strictly speaking, the Shadow killed him. Lancer vs True Assassin without the Shadow would probably always result in Lancer's victory. At WORST a draw, where he gets Zabaniya'd but kills Assassin anyway because of Battle Continuation.
Lancer's final rune can block any greater phantasm, any normal greater phantasm at least, unless its something completely outside of the system like Shadow that just eats through paper like its water.
That would screw with the structure of the story though. FSN honestly reads more like a mystery at times, with Shirou and the gang trying to figure out what the other masters are doing.
If you're not playing through the game three times, once for each servant, and at least going down each path in the game, also to face the final secret boss, you're doing it entirely wrong.
The story isn't the draw here, it's the characters.
If you're not seeing each servant, seeing the other route servants, getting to know each playable servant, fighting Ryougi, you're not really seeing shit here. Battle system is love it or hate it, the people that hate it though are outspoken as shit.
Stats-wise Waver was pretty good, and he was also the only Master to find Caster's lair. His Command Spell boost also made Rider pretty fucking strong against Gil
not that it worked but hey
There's a lot of reasonable masters
Leo, other Rin, Rani, Julius, Hakuno, etc.
Julius was one of the few masters so competent, that his servant had to be the one that fucked him up instead.
You're god damn right he was. Shinji is Shirou's best friend for a reason.
Shinji(Extra) was competent in a sense, too childish though, and he thought it was all a game. If he was taking it seriously he might have gotten somewhere. If he had survived past the first week, it would be pretty certain he'd serious up decently, in the same way Hakuno did perhaps.
>Their ability as Casters was not what I was challenging, it was the fact that they even qualify for Caster in the first place.
They don't qualify for the Fujuki grailwar. Moon Cell runs on a summoning where there isn't stat requirements to be summoned.
Moon Cell also allows absurd spirit summons.
He starts off the VN by almost instant gibbing Archer, then tries to instant gib Saber because Kotomine knows she is no fun.
If he wasn't forced to retreat out, he would have killer her at that spot.
He holds off Gil for 12 hours, while being unable to attack.
He can keep up with Cybelle. Let me repeat that: He is the fastest moving servant in the war. He shits magecraft. He got no issues killing somebody with stone gaze.
>Stats-wise Waver was pretty good,
Just ignore the stats of Zero characters.
They realy don't make sense.
For example Rin canonicaly maxes out Saber's stats but Kerrytugu's Saber has more Endurance and Agility when it's mentioned that he's a pretty shitty magus
>Is your enemy always running away from the fight? RUNES!
>Are you angry because you got killed before your time to shine? RUNES!
>Do you want to cook but don't have anything to set a fire with? RUNES!
>Are you angry you get killed in every route of your original game? THERE ARE NO RUNES FOR THAT!
He means Drake Shinji
An eight year old Korean gamer and hacker, he was a sperm sample child his parents purchased so they could rise up among the lesser classes and have a superior successor for their name, since they were ruined nobility.
He's got actual talent, he has the same childish and foolish personality, but according to Archer this Shinji is actually a good person at heart.
Maybe not, but he doesn't even come close to Illya
Shinji was decent until he found out that he wouldn't be the Matou's heir and everyone started treating him like shit.
He was a bro with Shirou who used to socially annihilate anyone who was abusing Shirou's kindness without Shirou finding out about it.
Just another ruined human being thanks to Grandpa Zouken's child raising.
>comparing a mage in a day to a vessel made solely for the holy grail war
Read the fucking VN.
He wouldn't even have needed it considering that Saber was extremly wounded
>Jinako :: Gh…I’ve been terribly insulted. Geniuses are just so cruel. It’s fine no matter how much you fail? Words like that do nothing to lighten the bitterness and envy of common folk who can’t ever succeed.
>Shinji :: Yeah, yeah, whatever hater. God…I can’t believe someone like this was my greatest rival in the gaming world. The web really is a rotten way of communicating. It makes boring people become entertaining and fun people become boring. The worst part is that you can’t even tell which type your are yourself anymore.
>Jinako :: Shinji…?
>Shinji :: I know. At least that people hate me on PJ. But if you don’t make a persona like you’ll just be boring and people will ignore you. No matter how good your records are. My parents were ruined nobility, see. They bought superior genetic material from the Western European plutocrats and designed me. After that I was given a room and just had self-study everyday. What mom and dad wanted wasn’t a son, it was a superior successor. It’s fine though. I can appreciate the irony. I mean, that’s all I have to be proud of. Superiority. Setting records. To teach a lesson to those morons whose faces I don’t even know. I wanted to set records, see. Records no one would ever beat. As proof that I was there. Now things have come to this I finally realized, but that was my wish. So — I wanted to participate in the Holy Grail War, and if I could win it, then I wouldn’t have needed anything more. Even without the “Grail” prize, all I wanted was to leave a record saying “I was here.” Even if it’s the web, where everything is vague, people don’t connect, and things disappear quickly, the name of the winner of the Holy Grail War would persist as long as the internet itself.
He's like a good version of Matou Shinji
That's my point, there's no reason that Lancelot should be nearly equal to Heracles in stats considering the huge gap in magic circuits between their respective masters.
>implying Shinji Matou isn't great
It isn't solely a mystery novel. It's build around the concept of slowly unveiling the servants across the story. Sometimes certain ones barely get any screen time in a route.
Redoing it to show all the perspectives isn't that simple. Zero was written in an entirely different way.
I know. I'm just eternally butthurt about this route stuff.
It's one of those things that sounds good on paper, but has a terrible execution. I just want to skip all the rock paper scissor and read the dialogues. Would've been way better as a VN, I'll probably just use the cheatcodes to clear it with the other characters or watch play through videos later.
That's like saying Tohno Shiki is boring. I mean he's not so much. There was a lot of characterization and some depth trying to be shoved in there with Sakura, but it would have helped if they spread it out a bit more maybe.
She's got some different sides to her as a character that haven't been settled.
Extra is the Fate route, CCC is the real route. Fate route may be a pain to get through at times, but it sets up all the groundwork and characters, and is important.
Gotta learn how computers and moons work
>Rin flat jokes
I never got it. She's not even the flattest of the main heroines. Yeah, I mean she's the "tsundere", and you do tsundere flat jokes if you want to be cliched, but they should really look at the context.
Difference between the two games; first one Nasu may have rewrote it once or twice, but it was like "Nah, it's its own thing, I'll let them handle it mostly".
CCC, Nasu took over from the first step, it was all his thing, it was the game he made, and he wanted to make it a big thing that meant something to him.
Reminder that Shiki can easily kill phantasmal beasts, including dragons.
>Thinking the joke is "Tsunderes are flat" or anything like that.
That's just both sisters riffing on each other in that scene; Sakura who doesn't have much of an advantage against her sister in any category or is constantly shifting behind, he'll brag a bit about the one or two things she does have like a sister does when she can finally get a leg up.
So she talks about how her breasts are bigger after Rin talked about how Sakura would probably look weightier in her swimsuit or something, since the joke with Sakura is that she's the one that worries about her weight. I forget worth crap but I'm pretty sure it was like that.
So anyway, Sakura will boast to feel good about her one or two advantages in the one situation when it helps as they're all talking about how they look best in their swimsuit, and then both sisters are shamed by the Homuncules as they both realize how large the world is.
It's like that One Day doujinshi, you don't get it at all if you think the joke is "Rin is flat".
Apo uses a modified grail. They may or may not have tampered with class parameters.
Here is the thing: He clears the stat requirement of the class.
The big issue is that the class skill is Workshop Creation. But E rank should be enough, to make one.
You are talking about HA.
It's a fandisc that suffers from the same character flanderisation as every TM-fandisc.
The SoL part is pretty much completly out of character for everyone
It might be overhyped, a lot of people could be disappointed or will rail against it if it does come out, but don't confuse that for it actually being bad. It's like, overhype can have some negative effects. I've read through most of it, shit is good, some people have said from a writings perspective it could be his best work yet, but if you were hoping for the second coming of Jesus then this isn't it.
Even "if" this was one of his best stories, depending on your personality and how hype effects you, if you put too much value in the story and it wasn't mind-blowing from the first step, you'll think it sucked because it was hyped too much.
It's like, 8/10, maybe 8.5, had some good stuff and good themes in there. Playing through with Gilgamesh is fun for sure, definitely worth it for that.
It's like when Hollow Ataraxia finally came out, and I guess we didn't care too much compared to all the build up. I mean Ataraxia was still good, not perfect but good, but man that was a lot of build up.
It's like this
I don't get the impression he does. He seems legitimately surprised that they keep turning out so popular. I think he knows he's basically just reusing the same basic despair porn tone and the drawn out and overemphasized themes basic utilitarianism versus hedonism in terms of morality and trying to accomplish a goal. The latter becomes especially noticeable with each passing work and looks like it's going to come into play again with Gunslinger Stratos.
>In 2115, the country known formerly as Japan has been split into two parallel worlds: the Frontier S (Stratos) (フロンティアS（ストラトス） Furontia S (sutoratosu)?) and the 17th Far East Imperial City Management District (第十七極東帝都管理区 Dai jū nana Kyokutō no teikoku kanri-ku?). Frontier S is an outlaw universe in which freedom runs rampant, while the 17th Far East Imperial City Management District is a totalitarian universe completely bereft of freedom and is under constant surveillance. When the two universes is starting to fuse into one, the government of each worlds initiates the Operation Stratos (オペレーション・ストラトス Operēshon sutoratosu?), a world-scale protocol wherein a handpicked group of gunslingers, mercenaries, and special individuals, each from the two universes, will be sent in the year 2015 to alter the past by eliminating the other side until only one group survives, erasing a parallel universe in the process.
Every time Gen. And what's worse people are going to think it's a totally fresh concept from him cause it's been re-skinned once again. First it was done in anime with Magical girls, then with the Fate franchise, then with "cyberpunk", then with mecha for a bit and now it just looks like it's being done with generic Chuuni action game setups.
Hype looks to be the key here. It's pretty fun and fairly interesting stuff but the sheer fanaticism surrounding it baffles me unless you just bring it down to hype and really clever marketing.
Because deep down, Uro is a good writer. Regardless of how shitty his fetish and ideas are.
On the top of that, nobody outside of Guro Hentai wants to write about suffering. And Suffering a lot better writing tool than Drama, since suffering is a end to a mean, not a infinite delay.
But the Butcher's suffering is pretty shitty.
I mean it doesn't even come close to quality suffering like pic related
While thats true, it still means he writes suffering instead of drama.
Drama is the worst shit, when used wrong.
>Saber, Gil and Kotomine were exactly doing last war
All of those juicy facts were explained in FSN.
Both Gil and Saber were finalists.
Kiritsugu ordered the destruction of the Grail
Gil and Kirei were showered with Grail mud
Kirei killed Rin's dad
Here's the better taste.
Reminder that DEEN's Shinji made Shirou smiled.
Shirou and Shinji are best friends. Shirou loves him.
DEEN finds a way.
>came out in 2010
>this aired in theaters
>You look like about to die already
Sasuga Vice Captain of Archery club.
I don't really see how the 4th war is anymore a war than the 5th one. Both have masters planning things. Both have stupid masters who do stupid things. Both have servants that aren't killed by the protagonist team. I just don't see it.
Don't care. LALALALA IM NOT LISTENING LALALALALA
>wanting a slut waifu who's been raped by demons countless times
As long as she's not a certain sect, it's fine to get married.
She might have to stop being a Nun to get married, but that's the honest way to go about it if that's how it goes. Even Joan here wanted to be a normal girl and find happiness in a normal way, but her country needed her, so for the time being she renounced herself and served her Lord in full.
Once the war is over, they could go back to just being people once more. Depends on your particular sect for the most part. It's only one certain type that can't get married. Nuns kind of renounce their humanity or their love lives to serve God in full typically, kind of like monks, but Nasuverse clearly works on different rules, and it's a lot less strict than it was at one point.
How is this not the best thing ever? My dick is diamonds.
>first fight, six servants, no deaths, everyone just awkwardly walks away
>second fight, three servants, no deaths, everybody peaces out
>third fight, godly executor rapemachine and two plebs, no deaths, rapemachine jogs away like a boss
>fourth fight, lifelong magekiller with mageraping bullets and a consummate magus, no deaths, magus gets servant-ex-machina'd and magekiller awkwardly walks away
OH WAIT NEVERMIND IT'S A KEGGER CHUG CHUG CHUG, sockpuppet servant commits suicide, everyone peaces out
>sixth fight, grail-chosen master and a tiny child, no deaths, everyone awkwardly walks away
>seventh fight, all remaining servants and masters, one dead servant and one dead master, everyone else just awkwardly walks away
So brutal. So cutthroat.
Probably not, what SHOULD feel wrong is not wanting to waifu the better F/HA
Caren is great but I rather waifu her father.
>Rider is off shopping and playing video games
>Saber is playing Initial D and dress up with Iri
>Caster is kuuruing it up
>Assassin is Team Rocket tier
>Gil spends his time talking with Kirei and observing everything
>Berserker is brooding in his doghouse
>Lancer is crying in his doghouse
Can't be arsed checking if anyone posted this yet but, F/SN localization incoming?
Will we finally be able to play this masterpiece with a good translation?
>first fight, two servants, one civilian dies (and is resurrected)
>second fight, two servants, no one dies, one leaves and the other's injured
>third fight, three servants, no one dies, Illya awkwardly walks away
I don't remember if the fourth fight would be Archer and Caster or Rider and Shirou
>Lancer is crying in his doghouse
Even if it's a different Lancer you're still triggering me
>Bazett and Lancer never got the chance to fight as a team