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Tank VS Mech

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What is the better weapon of war?
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>>121976844
Tank build with Mech "fuck physics" materials and engines.
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>>121976844
In terms of x tanks per y mechs relative to production effort and resources tanks would absolutley shit on mechs for conventional warfare.
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In what game can I destroy mechs with tanks?

Pic related, mech (Titan) killer.
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With real physics, tank.
With anime magic physics, mech.
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>>121976844
I leave the Xeno thread in /v/ and I find the same thing here. When I go to /m/ it's also there. Xeno hype is real.
>>
Wait, I thought this was /v/

Whatever /a/ is fine too
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Take the tank, give it the same armor the mecha use and guns, build 300 tanks to the 1 mecha. Train lolis to drive the tanks.
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Mech can fly and have nuke super modes.
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>>121977169
>give it the same armor the mecha use and guns
>mfw people think mechs somehow have far better armour and weapons than tanks
>people think that while mechs were being developed tank designe would've stagnated
top kek
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>>121977209
You dont watch much anime do you.
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>>121977035
Civ 5 has a mech unit and several tank units.
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>>121977251
only mecha anime I've seen is gargantia
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In urban warfare wearable mech suits would be better, I mean a battle suit in CoD:AW, not a mobile suit
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>>121976844
A mobility kill on a tank is much easier to repair than one on a mech
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>>121977301

Swarms of small drones would be even better.
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>>121977285
Well its a tendency that mecha always get the new rare super metal armor and the prototype weapons and are driven by angsty teenagers, while tanks are cannon fodder driven by old men.

Where as if you applied that to the tanks, you could build more of them and have even more ansty teenagers driving them.
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>>121977358
>swarms
a single projectile would destroy so much of a swarm that it would be a waste to produce them really.

>>121977372
That's what I find funny.
If there was some breakthrough into some new armour or weapon that's in it's own level then that would be distributed, if not instantly then eventually.

Mechs might have a tech advantage, but it wouldn't last.

Also
>development that is so far ahead of it's predecessors being made
>it works perfectly first time
>it's never mass produced or used for anything other than mechs

Just doesn't make sense. Reasons like that are why I don't watch the genre. Also fuck angsty teens.
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>>121977017
What he said... Except when the completed mech is of a scale, capable of dominating all known weapons. If someone managed to make a gurren lagann, you would need a big bang to potentially destroy it.
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>>121977045
What about tank with anime magic physics
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Mechs are absolutely shit tier in terms of design and practicality. Never understood why they gave them hands instead of just built-in weapons.
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>>121977434
>>it's never mass produced or used for anything other than mechs
But they are. What do you think the Guncannon is?
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>>121976844
>>>/m/

Also oranges and apples. Tanks would be faster, mechs would be all terrain. Tanks would be better in conventional war, and mechs would be better at blowing up towelheads.
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>>121977434
Well ideally the swarm wouldn't just sit there and let itself get hit would it now? Even if it did you cant say it's a waste without knowing their cost.
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Mechs a shit. They literally get taken out by glass bottles and rocks.
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>>121977475
>Mechs are absolutely shit tier in terms of design and practicality.
If I had to compliment them, they're very versatile. Would be good for special operations or supporting roles. Maybe precision strike units?
Either way, on earth they would have very little advantages.

In space it's probably debatable but in that circumstance the design of the mech may as well just be a spaceship really since it offers none of the advantages or disadvantages of earth, so moving limbs are pointless.

>>121977504
>What do you think the Guncannon is?
I don't know.
Sounds like someone trying to bait /k/
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>>121977595
>ask if tank is better than mech in mecha board

They would say mech is better.
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>>121976844
how about a mech with the ability to transform into tank, that sacrifice maneuverability in exchange with firepower and defense?
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>>121977358
Drones have the flaw that they're vulnerable to too many means of electronic countermeasure. The only reason we haven't seen many real-life examples yet is because the only countries actually using any unmanned combat vehicle technology are allies, and using them to bomb mudhuts in the orient.
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>>121977698
>how about a mech with the ability to transform into tank
This is the stupidest thing I've heard all day.
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>>121977698
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
Also it already exists
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>>121977714
>The only reason we haven't seen many real-life examples yet
Pretty sure iran hacked and landed an american spy drone not too long back.
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>>121977781
that's bretty kool actually.
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>>121977035
MechWarrior: Living Legends has mechs and tanks. For the same price, tanks provide better armor and more focused firepower, but lack the mobility of mechs.

You'll be hard pressed to find active servers though - PGI killed off the project with licensing bullshit to make room for the trainwreck that is MechWarrior: Online
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>>121977035
Empire Earth series.
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>>121977609
>I don't know.
In Gundam, the RX-78 was a prototype that got mass produced.

Mass produced versions of the super machines are not uncommon either. Last year, there was Argevollen where the main reason they let the mech go into battle was to get data. The people who were repairing it constantly complained about the lack of parts and their inexperience. The mass produced models ended up being better as well.

Super robots also have mass produced models. TTGL has the Grapperl.
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Mechs. See: Mobile Suit Gundam, episode < 10.
The tanks are armored bastards with 360 turret rotation and 60 degree tilt and fucking hover.
Granted, the RX-78-2 was after them so they'd lose regardless.
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>>121977714
Fucking everything in the military is vulnerable to electronic countermeasure these days. That's just the nature of modern combat. You're not gonna find a perfect weapon with no limitations. Not in a modern military anyway.
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>>121976844
>not things that fly
Even Muv Luv knew that controling air space means controling the battlefield
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>>121977916
>You're not gonna find a perfect weapon with no limitations
A rifle and a good soldier.
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>>121977675
>I have never been on /m/ in my life
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>>121977926
>not things that fly
That's what we build planes for.

Building two objects designed to perfectly fill their role is better than one bastardisation that can do neither properly.
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I was about to post that mech could be superior for versatility of equipment + neurological adaptability for humans but then remembered Tachikoma
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>>121977957
>it would allow mechs to easily swap out weapons on the fly
see >>121977968
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Talking the sci-fi shit we see in anime and a world where machines don't break down on a daily basis.

If you're talking a mech as in a lone man piloting a giant robot, then it's just an over designed and inferior tank.

If you add the ability to jump or fly, along with the ability to carry a load of soldiers, then the mech starts to gain a niche between close air support and armor with massive mobility. There's a slight use to the hands thing as it means one mech can utilize a downed mech's weapon. The hands thing actually can become an advantage in that it would allow mechs to easily swap out weapons on the fly or to pick up a platform from another downed mech.

Realistically though, mechs would be horribly complex machines which constantly break down. Unless some magic solution comes along, they would prove too unreliable to use.

The ideal route would be to master exosuits and work up your way up. Likely, we would find an upper limit before hitting diminishing returns. Space might open things up more, but you wouldn't really be using tanks up there.
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Fighter aircraft would shit on mechs in the air and Tanks would do the same on the ground.
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By the way, you may want to check out Argevollen. In that series, tanks and mecha are about on the same level, with tanks starting out with a slight advantage due to their height, while the mecha get better due to vastly superior mobility.
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People always say mechs wouldn't work with real physics but some would.

What people seem to forget is the worlds these mechs are on might have lower gravity and air pressure. Sometimes the mechs are in space. In that context sure they'd work just about as well as any fighter plane people throw into space in all sorts of sci-fi.
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>>121976844
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>>121978117
>is the worlds these mechs are on might have lower gravity and air pressure
You really think that's the issue?
Do you know how hard it is to create a robot that can even walk properly, let alone a battle capable completely dexterous armoured fucker with onboard power.

It would be impossible to power the movements, even if they were possible, which they wouldn't be.
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>>121978117
But im space you would gain more by building space fighters with big weapons which mean you have more weapons flying around rather than one mech with one arsenal being a large target. With the same materials you could build 5 fighters.
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Bitches please. Why not both?
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>>121978257
>uses probably the same resources as a mech
>has none of the advantages
>has all the disadvantages of the tank
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Variable Fighters are objectively the best weapon systems ever, superior to all other mechs, as well as tanks and aircraft. Prove me wrong.
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>>121978194
A mech fighting in space is just as stupid as a fighter plane in space. Also who said mechs need to be oversized? You could easily make 1 mech with the same materials as a fighter.

>>121978186
You really think that's an issue? Super computers with self teaching software, bam solved half your issues right there. Power is again not really an issue, we're already talking sci-fi nonsense, just say they have a tiny nuclear engine. You think people actually care about these details?
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Tanks are boring
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>>121978348
>Mass produced
>Top of the line weaponry in setting
>Can take on three other mecha at once
>A platoon can be controlled by one man

Granted, Argevollen has no planes.
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>>121978418
Only to non-militaryfags who don't know shit about them.
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>>121977916
Not really. Most military hardware only uses computers for communication and instruments, which they can function independently of. You;re not going to hack a manned aircraf out of the sky, the best you can do is scramble some of its navigation instruments, at which point it's more than capable of being flown manually.

If you do the same to a drone aircraft, it loses its eyes and ears and ceases to function as a combat vehicle.

People talk about sci-fi combat nanomachines and nanite swarms like it will someday be a viable technology, but for any machine miniaturized to the extent where it's small enough to not be an easy target for standard weapons, its electronics would be so small and vulnerable, that even a change in the passive electric charge in the air would be destructive.
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>>121976844
Mech are not real but fuck they are awesome.
fuck your coffins with cannons.
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>>121978356
>bam solved half your issues right there
No you didn't though. I'm talking about the actual implementation and powering of the facilities that move the limbs and shit.
>tiny nuclear engine
thats a lot of fucking resources for one fucking vehicle

>same materials as a fighter
once again, the largest issue of the mech is that it's entire body needs to move. Planes don't need that.

>>121978418
bullshit
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>>121978442
>Granted, Argevollen has no planes.
That's gonna be a problem, because Variable Fighters are planes. Planes that turn into mechanoid robots, as well as walking tanks.

They also have a surprisingly good reason to exist (taking place in a universe where humanity fights against, and eventually lives alongside, a race of gigantic humanoids).
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>>121978034
Anon, swapping weapons between vehicles is not something that planes and tanks normally do on the battlefield.

If you're talking flying, it's also not normal for helicopters to be able to land on a greater than 10 degree slope. Legs would allow for those landings along with a much greater degree of staying power which is a major drawback for air power.

These aren't trying to do two things. This is filling a niche.
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>>121978442

> Muh war without soldiers.

Seriously though, Samonji and Cayenne did nothing wrong.
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Tanks don't have AT-field.
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>>121978356
If we are talking about mecha and the standard idea of a mecha, then they are big. If you are talking smaller, you are getting in to exosuits.

I didnt say fighter planes, I said space fighters. Did you even watch Star Wars?
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>>121978442
>Argevollen has no planes.
Easily the worst part of the show. You'll be watching this mecha show that wants you to take it seriously with its mind-reading future-mechs, and yet every single military scenario presented would be totally rekt by a handful airplanes. Or hell, even some long range artillery. IRL we had the tech for airplanes before tanks, and yet in a world of mecha more advanced than anything IRL, there's still not even dirigibles. What a stupid show.
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>>121978356
>You could easily make 1 mech with the same materials as a fighter.

It's a matter of overcomplicated articulation compared to vernier thrusters on pylons like the Starfury from Babylon 5.
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>>121978554
The point is that interchangeability is pointless when you have specific units that fill the rolls themselves. It's called combined arms.
The vehicles don't need to swap weapons because for every tank that controls the ground, there is a plane controlling the sky.
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>>121978550
Variable Fighters are pretty awesome and are one of my favorite type of mechs. It's just that the Argevollen-series in universe is something that lots of mecha shows don't cover, being unmanned warfare.

>>121978618
To be fair the eyecatches showed a lot of different designs for Trailkriegers, some amphibious and some appearing to be aerial based. It is likely that planes and aerial combat do exist in this world, but were out of focus.

>Or hell, even some long range artillery
But that kept on happening. Hell, that was the plot of an episode
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>>121978618
Or the utter rape of fire and forget ATGMs like Javelins.

Let alone the carnage that modern rocket artillery can do.
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>>121978618

It is visually implied there is some kind of polar inversion that prevents use of aircraft.
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Mech. What a stupid fucking question. A mech has the capability of walking over terrain that a tank can't.
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Powered armor makes more sense than gundam-style mecha.
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>>121978748
>A mech has the capability of walking over terrain that a tank can't.
There is a very small amount of land a tank can't traverse, and even there the mech would be fucked up by air assets.

>implying that even matters in combat
>implying that if they can shoot they cant be shot at
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>>121978725
That doesn't mean that the Bernouli principle which generates lift based on pressure differences would magically stop working.

It might fuck up navigation and electronics, but this breaks the suspension of disbelief
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>>121977035
Red Alert 3 , Tiberian Sun
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>>121978607
Yeah Star Wars is an example of fighters in space. It's just as stupid as mechs. There is no reason they should be shaped like terrestrial fighters. With all the turrets and thrust facing forward.

What you want is something that is designed to fight three dimensionally in Zero-G.

Additionally you could have something roughly 2.5m - 5m in height that would be larger than what you'd call an exosuit that a pilot could be seated in that would use far less materials than a fighter.

>>121978543
True but a mech also doesn't need to have sustained flight either.
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If mecha can fly, mecha
If not, tank
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>>121978899
That would essentially just be a mechanized infantry.
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>>121978899
It's still a larger volume contraint than variable geometry wings, which directly impacts fuel and payload
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>>121978899
>a mech also doesn't need to have sustained flight either.
A mech is using power whether it's in flight or not so it would have to return to base just like a plane.
In terms of loiter time a plane can just fly in cirlces anyway.

A plane would be called out under specific circumstances so it wouldn't need to land in combat zones, that's what helicopters are for (not that different vehicles for different jobs advantage again).
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>>121978937
Why not use bullshit technology mech has access to and make the tank fly?
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>>121976844
A pointless discussion.
We might as well discuss "Dragons VS. Crocodiles, which is more lethal?" - one is fictional and in most cases imagined to be one of the worst and most powerfull monster in the world. The other is just a crocodile.

Any points, like "Tanks would be faster, Mecha can climb" are moot, because I simply write "the mecha can fly with a speed of Mach 12".
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>>121978492
>>121978543
Tanks are pretty fucking boring.

They're really slow and maneuver like shit. Watching actual tank fights is dull as fuck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bsDP5DznDQ
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The battlesuits in "A Farewell to Weapons" are a great example of what 'practical' mechanized infantry would be like.

Essentially the armor and firepower of a tank with the size, adaptability and maneuverability of infantry
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>>121978899
Not really, they also use their fighters in atmosphere and they frequently launch from the ground. Its good planning to take that in to account when building a fighter.
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wars are won by logistics, so it comes down to which is cheaper to maintain and run.
in other words, the tank

that is of course assuming they both use human pilots

the real weapon of war these days are silent stealth 360 no scope get nerfed to follow geneva convention drones.
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>>121979033
Because then it wouldn't be a tank
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>>121979033
Mechas are still better when I say so in my work.
End of discussion.
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>>121979042
This has to be bait.
>>
Mechs are inherently flawed. Under no circumstances does a weapon ever need to be bipedal and have human-like limbs. It just makes it needlessly more complex and gives it some significant balance problems.

Unless we're talking four-legged designs or spider-like legs. Those would actually be useful for traversing rough terrain but even then, we already have helicopters which makes this shit completely redundant. Humanoid mechs are just full retard, though.
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>>121977434
>mfw can't do kung-fu with tank
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>>121979074
Hovertank.
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>>121979042
>They're really slow and maneuver like shit.
>confirmed for not knowing about tanks
>cites urban combat as an example
kek

>>121979109
>mfw can't do kung-fu in a mech cause I just got blown up by a tank
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>>121977753
>stupidest
It's genius.
In mech form can do martial arts
In tank form - fire heavy guns since added stability, since can't kung-fu while having recoil from big guns.
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>>121977475
>hands instead of just built-in weapons
I can understand hands, being able to grab stuff seems like a good idea, but I hate the idea of making giant guns for them to hold.
Why waste the resources for mass-producing giant guns when you can just build them on?
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>>121979100
>Under no circumstances does a weapon ever need to be bipedal and have human-like limbs
What about infantry?
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>>121979100
spider-like drone is awesome though.
Mount a anti-tank and some HMG and we migh get a viable replacement for tank.
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>>121979171
Infantry are a weapon now? You're thinking of manpower
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>>121979142
>Cites sandniggers fighting in urban combat as an example
In other words, the absolute worst possible example he could pick, because sandniggers cannot into armoured warfare and combined arms.
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>>121979049
>Its good planning
Well, it is in the SW universe, because it works like it does.
But in another piece of fiction you could, i.e. say that Star Wars type space fighters are decent in space and atmosphere,but inferior to anything designed for space (a spherical ship with guns and thrust in every direction for example) or atmosphere (a fighterplane). They might be good option for certain operations, like blitzattacking a planet. You could call them aerospace fighters.
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>>121979142
>mfw can't do kung-fu in a mech cause I just got blown up by a tank
Mawashi geri projectiles back at tank.
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>>121979171
Warbots are probably better in non-humaoid shape, even when we have Terminator-level technology.
But it's not as cool as a metal skellington.
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>>121979042
there are fast moving tanks anon, and some can even maneuver over rough and uneven terrain.
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>>121979049
You really don't want a atmospheric fighter in space it's like arguing for subs that can also crawl across the land. In space you'd want something designed for space combat, Zero-G Vacuum is very different than fighting in atmosphere. Like a Pod from 2001 with 360 turrets.

>>121978965
Kinda. Still larger than a power suit and has a seated pilot, I'd call that a mech.

>>121978977
>>121979028
The role isn't to replace aircraft, it'd have it niche like everything else.
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>>121979421
>it'd have it niche like everything else.
the point of a mech is to be an all in one
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>>121979442
According to who? Super robot cartoon for children?
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>>121979042
Can they even aim with all the dust after the first shot?
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>>121979442
That's what wacky Japan mechs are suppose to be because carving out a role in combined arms and following characters who are just another cog in a larger war machine doesn't gel with them.
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>>121976844
If the mech have the same maneuverability in anime, they'd be better, but it's impossible to build one. So, tanks or fighter jets ftw.
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>>121979421
It's only niche would be as a mechanical donkey for rough terrain like mountains, either carrying supplies or weapons like mortars, in a realistic universe
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>>121979421
>>121979263

It would depend on your resources. Do you have the money to make fighters just for space that can never touch ground? You could be limiting your self if you tried to specialize to much when a simple change of shape can make it great for both. Then you can build 10,000 that fight in space and air, rather than 5000 of each. Next time a fight breaks out on a planet, you have 10,000 fighters ready to go rather than 5000 and visa-verse.
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>>121979521
Oh, okay. Please elaborate on this "niche" that mechs are supposedly the only option for.
Because so far as I can tell everything they do can be done better by something else.
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>>121977035

Gihrens Greed Earth Federation Scenario though good fucking luck doing it without bomber support.
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>>121979093
>>121979142
Look if you've got a better example show it. All the tank related footage I've seen, old and new is roughly the same. Slow and dull.
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>>121978618
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw91mzpyzjM
we need to line more of these up.
solves your mech problem
>>
>>121979562
You're a retard who doesn't understand orbital reentry.

>>121979581
See >>121979559
>>
From a design, practicality and cost perspective - mechs are complete shit. Which is why they exist as cool looking fiction.

Power armors/exoskeletons have some actual potential though.
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>>121979521
>According to who? Super robot cartoon for children?

As opposed to you, who is clearly citing sources from real-life mechs, right?
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>>121979581
Heavy infantry in urban/rough terrain and support for airborne forces. This is assuming you have a mech that isn't full retard and only a few meters tall.
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>>121979559
Helicopters.

>>121979632
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN-AwDX77h8
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>>121978804
The creator of Gundam apparently wanted that but it would have been too violent
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>>121979142
Here
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>>121979581
Showing off. Would you fight against a country that can build a ten meter tall humanoid weapon that is inferior to everything they could build for the same money?
Everybody can buy a T-72 on the black market, now a mecha is just showing how many ressources you have and that you don't care if such a thing will be lost what inevitable will be the case
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>>121979663
Support for airborne forces is the only real use of them since other armour would be hard to insert.
But airborne forces are almost redundant now anyway.
>>
But there's nothing cooler than a massive humanoid robot
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>>121979648
Who cares when you have gundonium.
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>>121979668
This isn't combat. And this is about as interesting to watch as an SUV commercial.
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>>121979263
I'm pretty sure SW already does that.
The biggest spacecraft, built to always stay in space as a base of operations, have all kind of turrets everywhere. Star Destroyers have 360 degree firepower. So does the Death Star, but the planet destroying gun is so massive and takes so much power, they can only build one.
>>
>>121979668
Believe it or not, helicopters can have issues high in the mountains.

What I am describing is more like a Wiesel on legs.
>>
>>121977017
In Muv Luv they mass produce TSF and they are capable of going Super Sonic and have stealth (They are based off of Jets)

They would absolutely destroy any and all tank divisions.
>>
>>121979710
This post is so retarded.

>>121979753
Pretty sure they're creating small dog like robots for that anyway.
>>
>>121979711
In conventional warfare airborne forces would still be extremely relevant. Even in places like Afghanistan airborne was a major player because of the terrain. Small end mechs would be ideal for the role over the only other option which is the German Weasel.
>>
For mechs to make sense, there's usually some kind of in-universe explanation to justify their existence.

Gundams have Minovsky particles, TSFs have laser-class BETA, etc.
>>
>>121979768
That's exactly what I was referencing, except slightly scaled up
>>
>>121979660
Why do you think Mechs need to be an end all jack of all trades super machine that can do everything? Who ever seriously said that and believes that other than little kids and the Japanese?
>>
>>121977968
Tell that to America.
>>
>>121979849
All the fags who keep buying F35s.
>>
Depends, how big is the mech?
>>
>>121979766
Nope. TSF's are dumb as shit. As stated so many times before, you could just take that same technology that makes them great and apply it to tanks and attack helicopters. TSF's quite literally have no advantage over either tanks or helicopters.
>>
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>>121979701
>

>>121979748
well maybe the issue is the face that actual large scale tank on tank hasn't occurred since ww2 in which there were almost no cameras on the front let alone in combat.

>>121979766
Hence why you have supersonic jets to kill them

>>121979840
well mechs are generally humanoid, I assumed we were discussing those.

>>121979866
I was actually thinking of that while writing it believe me or not
>>
>>121977849
>minotaur
>not the absolute tanks killer
>>
>>121979849
>Who ever seriously said that and believes that other than little kids and the Japanese?

Just a friendly reminder that you're browsing /a/ and therefore we are all discussing anime mechs, which is why people are calling the concept retarded in the first place. I do not think they're jack-of-all-trades; that is precisely what they ARE, the ultimate warfare weapon in every mecha anime ever.
>>
>>121979668
Nobody said tanks can't drive on a freeway, but they don't fight at 60 mph.
>>
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>>121979896
>>
>>121979984
>but they don't fight at 60 mph
they don't because they haven't had to yet.
>>
>>121980017
Tank then, no doubt.
>>
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How effective would insectoid mechs be in comparison to humanoid mechs?

Is the human form really something we should shoot for it mechs are made?
>>
The only cases where mechas aren't dumb as shit are where they literally powered by magic and can't be replaced, like Ideon and Eva. Even stuff like Minovsky particles can't justify humanoid designs.
>>
>>121979894
Except that the F-35 is turning out be exactly what was promised, sometimes even better, and will have a lower unit cost than the inferior Eurocanards while being more advanced in just about every way.

Sprey and Pray, pls go
>>
>>121979927
>Helicopters
Lol laser class that melt everyone.
>Tanks
Lol fort and fortress class.
>>
>>121979927
Tanks can't go supersonic.

Tanks don't have arms.

Treads don't work on every single type of terrain.

Helicopters cannot fight on the ground, which is necessary when laser class beta are in the area. You need to quickly move from the ground to the air.

Enjoy your dead humanity.
>>
>>121979984
>but they don't fight at 60 mph.
For the exact same reasons that mechs realistically won't. It's impractical.
>>
>>121979961
First, TSF were designed to fight aliens, not jets.

Second, a super sonic jet has no advance capability over a TSF when given stealth or even without stealth. The only thing that matters is the quality of the missile you shoot.

You cannot name a single thing a jet can do a tsf cant in air combat, but I can name things it can do like instantly transition into a strike helicopter.
>>
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>>121980117
>It's better than Eurotrash so it's a good plane.

When your incredibly expensive plane doesn't completely out-dogfight planes a gen behind nor outcarry them, it's an expensive piece of shit.
>>
>>121980023
Because there is no tactical reason to, because in reality tank combat is slow and boring thus reinforcing the other anons point.
>>
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>>121980099
Magic and magic bug parts.
>>
>>121980147
Mechs in anime can because they are closer to jets and helicopters and are not limited to being on the ground.
>>
>>121979815
What does Minovsky particles do, exactly?
>>
>>121980129
>Tanks can't go supersonic.
If huge impractical mecha can, I don't see why tanks can't.
>>
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>>121976844
>>
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When was a tank piloted by a god?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deg1RHwmKpo
>>
>>121980264
Make radar useless which supposedly means close range combat became a thing again. It's a shitty and terrible justification for sword fights in robots.
>>
>>121976844
Mechas legs are the main weakness. You can make him fall with rope like "Tom and Jerry". Imagine the carnage in urban warfare ?
>>
>>121980191
>You cannot name a single thing a jet can do a tsf cant in air combat
vastly outnumber them with the same amount of resources?

You yourself admitted that the format of firing a missile doesn't matter so why have one super expensive thing to shoot them when you can have hundreds of little flying bastards that can do it.

>>121980215
>implying there has ever been a modern generation tank fight
>implying that you know what would happen if there was
sure
>>
>>121979961
>>
>>121980264

Jam and scatter all communcation and targetting equipment that isn't short range. It's also why beams work in-universe.
>>
>>121980129
>Tanks can't go supersonic.

And yet something as non-aerodynamic as a 20 meters tall human statue can. By all means if they have the technology to make mechas super sonic then planes should be able to reach the speed of light.
>>
Anime about space fighters shooting each other when?
>>
>>121980129
Sounds like VTOL would be perfect for the job
>>
>>121980323
>vastly outnumber them with the same amount of resources?
For the record, they used aerial warfare in Muvluv and it worked. Then it stopped working.
>>
>>121980316
>lasers map the terrain and detects the rope
>automatically steps/jumps over it

Your move Atheists.
>>
>>121980323
>implying there has ever been a modern generation tank fight

Didn't the Gulf War have a lot of them?
>>
>>121980264
The really, really short version is that it fucks over all kinds of long-range communication, wrecks missiles and other guided munitions, and creates beam weapons that are stupidly effective against armor, making CQC the name of the game, and mobile suits the new standard.
>>
>>121980371
LoGH is already a thing.
>>
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>>121979198
damage a single leg and it's good as dead
that said, the recoil on pretty much anything worth mounting on a vehicle would beat the shit out of the joints, so even if it was used quite sparingly it would break down very quickly.

something like a tachikoma is a semi-viable design because it still has wheels for travel, but would still require far more maintenance than a regular vehicle, but less than a large model like the walking tank that goes on a rampage early in the series, but even if it took no damage in combat, so is not truly viable as a replacement, but could still be used as a rescue bot in radioactive areas, but would be too heavy for things like burning buildings.

walkers are niche use only, but those niches are why people get into robotics.
>>
>>121980371
When Macross becomes a thing
>>
>>121980092
Arms were needed to hold tools and stuff. I don't see how they would help in a modern warfare scenario. Might as well bolt that rifle on your back and get 2 more legs.
>>
>>121980323
>vastly outnumber them with the same amount of resources

It cost 150 million dollars for a f22 raptor, jet version. There are less than 200 of them.

It cost roughly what it cost to make a tank to make a tsf.

You are full of shit and don't know what you are talking about.
>>
>choosing between a mech or a plane

why not both in one?
>>
>>121980311
>>121980340
>>121980432
It's fucking stupid because beams in Gundam are still insanely long range, making melee completely pointless.
>>
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>>121980331
>>
>>121980323
>What is the gulf war
>What is the iraq war
>What is the Syrian Civil War
>What are the wars between Isreal and it's neighbors
>What are literally all the conflicts going on around the world being fought with Russian and American tanks

You are really delusional.
>>
>>121980502
Money isn't really an issue when the alternative to building more mechs is human extinction.
>>
>>121980311
>>121980340
>>121980432
Wouldn't that just like WW1 and Early WW2? How does it justify the use of giant robot?
>>
>>121980206
But that's wrong. It kinematically outperforms the latest F-16 in an A2A configuration.

Between VLO and its integrated sensor-targetting-datalink suite, it position itself for better shots than it's non-VLO counterparts.

In it's strike configuration, it carries more than a Super Hornet further.
>>
>>121980502
>comparing real world economics to fantasy

True autism.
>>
>>121980413
Laser class -> dead
>>
>>121979979
I thought we were just discussing mechs not necessarily 10 story tall anime mechs that can destroy planets.
>>
>>121980502
>You are full of shit
You're the one defending a fuckheavy humanoid robot that's magically able to move supersonic
>>
>>121980428
>Didn't the Gulf War have a lot of them?
>shitty old soviet tanks vs western tanks that can shoot them from vastly further ranges

Nope. There was no need for the western tanks to manoeuvre because they couldn't even be targeted.

>>121980558
see above
>>
>>121980439
I though it didn't have fighters,just those big spaceships
>>
>>121980502
>It cost roughly what it cost to make a tank to make a tsf.
I don't care if that's true in muv luv universe, that's pure bullshit.
>>
>>121980545
>It's fucking stupid because beams in Gundam are still insanely long range

It's still within visual range though, that's the point. You can no longer hit something from a continent away.
>>
>>121980502
>mechs are as easy to make as tanks
did you grow up in magicland?
>>
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>>121980553

Mecha wins hands down, best tech path.
>>
>>121980565
It doesn't. Gundam's worldbuilding is pure shit outside of the colonies which aren't an original idea.
>>
>>121980564
Then why did the f22 beat the yf-22 and the yf-23
>>
>>121980420
You can hide the rope and pull it when the mech comes.

> Your move Atheists.

I don't understand
>>
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>>121980655
>>
>>121980630
There are a few fighter battles. Poplin and Proto-Asuka are introduced as fighter pilots and have a few battles before shifting over to politics.
>>
>>121980651
Considering we are literally talking about magical mechs that cannot physically exist, for this specific instance yes.
>>
All those against mecha, can go fuck themselves in general, spiritless assholes.

Human form - best design.
>>
>>121977169
>another lolifag thinks little girls have the mental capacity to drive tanks and handle the mental stress of putting your life on the line and taking the lives of others
>>
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Oh yeah, the shit we have does REAL good against this thing.

Not that you'd ever want to risk destroying it.
>>
>>121980655
why does your mech have nipples!

>>121980768
>Considering we are literally talking about magical mechs
No we're not. We're talking about if mech technology was possible.
>>
>>121980783
That looks really top heavy. Probably easy to knock down.
>>
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>>121980783
fite me irl
>>
>>121980754
>Mech detects you hiding and blows you up before you can pull the rope
Checkmate Atheists.
>>
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>>121980595
>laser

Hug the ground. You've never play 2142 aren't you?
>>
>>121980802
>If mech technology was possible

It isn't. Therefore, anything we are talking about is magic you idiot.
>>
>>121980822
>>121980853

It's literally invincible to anything that isn't one of the other mechs.

Just as well, if it's taken out the universe goes with it, since it's part of a "game" to weed out parallel universes by tying said universe's lifeforce to a mech. And then killing whoever pilots it to power it after the fight is over.
>>
>>121980802
>why does your mech have nipples!
To distract the enemy. Sex appeal is a weapon.
>>
>>121980545
We're talking long range in the scale of people who can make phone calls across the solar system.
>>
>>121980802
even if mech technology were feasible, it would still be used on platforms that make more sense (tanks, aircraft, powered exoskeleton)
>>
>>121980887
Then fortress, which you have no traction to stop. Or just charged.
>>
>>121980891
>It isn't.
We're talking about the future. Such a technological advancement so as to make it possible is plausible.
Whether it would be worthwhile is the debate ITT.
Idiot.

>>121980908
fair enough.

>>121980940
Literally what I've been saying.
>>
>>121980630
see
>>>/wsg/576249
>>>/wsg/576252
>>
>>121980907
and the pilots are all 14 year old kids
>>
>>121980565
They can carry smaller munitions that have retarded amounts of firepower but relatively low range usually, they can't use guided munitions so well, and they have to be able to fight CQC when enemy mobile suits come in range.
>>
>>121980907
If it's knocked down, it's more like a turtle.
All of that sounds dumb as hell, by the way.
>>
>>121977459

/thread
>>
>>121980573
>F16
>Dogfighter

And also you have to consider that the Europeans are buying them specifically for the VLO configuration so they can create carriers without having huge airstrips, so there goes the carrying capacity.
>>
>>121980967
>We're talking about the future

You are an idiot. Mechs will never be possible. A robot would be able to walk, then it would destroy itself. Muscular systems generate heat and the heat would erode absolutely any system you use strong and flexible enough to be used as a musculature system.

You 4chan idiots amaze me. You call me an idiot for "magic science" then completely ignore reality in your following post. Educate yourself.
>>
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>>121981019
>If it's knocked down, it's more like a turtle.

Considering it has a laser that can target every lifeform on a planet simultaneously, getting knocked down isn't exactly a game ender.

or when it shot the enemy who was hiding in Hawaii with a single giant blast. From Tokyo.
>>
>>121979042
all those fucking birds flying around there.
one nearly hits the fucking tank at 9:37
>>
>>121981103
Your inability to factor in multiple sections of a conversation makes you hilariously lost right now.
>>
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>>121980757
>>
>>121981118
>Considering it has a laser that can target every lifeform on a planet simultaneously,
give everyone mirrors
gg no re
>>
>>121981103
You're going to be spinning in your grave when all battles in the year 3000 are fought with seahorse shaped robots that bounce around on their tails.
>>
>>121980948
>Traction
>For stopping Fortress-class
lolwut
>>
>>121981101
Which model are you talking about?

If referring to the B, while it does sacrifice fuel and load compared to the A and C, it is vastly superior in every manner to the Harrier and Harrier II it would replace.
>>
>>121981161
I did read about birds singing even during bombardment in WW1.
Birds just don't give a fuck.
>>
>>121981118
TTGL could fight it and win, so could the Getter Emperor.

Ideon is kind of like a self fulfilling prophecy version of the Bokurano mech.
>>
So what's the excuse in Muv-Luv why they don't just use drones for everything?
>>
>>121981019
Bokurano is literally the madoka magica of mech anime, just a decade older. Also no happy ending, it ends with a "fuck you, it started sad and it's going to end sad" ending.

And I mean it really is Madoka
>15 kids, all around 13-14ish, are tricked into signing a contract
>they're told it's a fun game and they got to pilot a robot and save the world against another robot
>first kid beats his enemy, he mysteriously dies when celebrating
>so does the second, except in the pilot seat
>the small white creature who oversees it all tells them that piloting Zearth takes your lifeforce in exchange for using it
>you can't avoid it, you're going to die, unless someone else signs the contract to die in your place
>if you lose, earth and the universe ceases to exist
>if you don't win your fight in 48 hours, you automatically lose
>>
>>121981305
Muh drama
>>
>>121981255
I'm talking dogfighting ability similar to most actual interceptor craft, like the F15C, and naval planes with good carrying capacity, like the F/A 18E.

No shit it's got better carrying capacity than the small, subsonic harrier, but is not a good replacement for specifically-built planes. The Europeans just put up with it because it's the "best" VTOL aircraft they can put in their smaller carriers.
>>
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>>121981103
>Mechs will never be possible
Gekkos are pretty damn feasible, power source notwithstanding.
>>
>>121981296
>TTGL could fight it and win, so could the Getter Emperor.

They'd win, but winning would be kind of a bad thing.
>>
>>121980192
This webm exemplifies something I really hate about mecha combat. Normal tanks and combat vehicles might as well be made of paper coated with thermite while the mechas have armor that can repel a nuclear explosion. Even though they should be made form the same material.
>>
>>121981359
You could run a Gekko on a gas turbine all day.
>>
>>121981103
Mechs are possible, they're just extremely pointless unless you happen to be fighting on a planet made of stairs with no gravity or atmosphere.
>>
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>>121981432
Nah, they're made of the same shit.

That one just has the protagonist in it.
>>
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>>121981200
Deeper into the rabbit hole.
>>
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Did we ever got release date for this?
>>
>>121977968
At least in the Muv-luv universe aircraft became ineffective due to the Laser and Heavy Laser class BETA which were the most devastating and efficient AA ever.
>>
>>121981357
The directly comparable -A and -C F-35s are superior in those respective roles.

Don't count the -B out of the fight entirely. It still has the excellent aerodynamic form of the plane, it still has very good maneuverability, and it still has both the stealth and integrated sensor package to rape most previous gen fighters.

A issues of procurement and defense policy do not denigrate the qualities of the F-35 as a fighting platform
>>
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>>121981359
Hey, it can move 70 tons of tank.
The big issue with limbed mechs is balance, and the guys at Boston Dynamics have built several robots that can balance themselves pretty effectively, including one bipedal robot.
>>
>>121981542
Except mecha are the new aircraft, for reasons never explained.
>>
>>121977066

It's been 18 years since a good solid Xenogears like game. Give them their day.

Also, Mechs would never work unless we get the tech to make them semi-cyborgs about 12-21 ft. tall. That tech is not avail for at least another 150 years.
>>
>>121981578
They were meant for hive breaching and the flexibility of the platform was more suited to that role.
>>
>>121981513
> planet made of stairs with no gravity or atmosphere
Sounds like the last stage for some wheelchair rpg.
>>
>>121981564
Not when considering price. They're good planes, but completely overpriced and inefficient in those areas. The stealth capabilities of the plane are also only so-so, especially when compared to other stealth fighters.
>>
>>121981525

In fairness, the reason Votoms can afford paper armor is because it's a war between 2 giant empires spanning an entire galaxy and every battle has millions, if not billions in casualties.
>>
>>121981659
Except, they're treated more like a generic super weapons used for everything from hive assaults to taking out the trash.
>>
>>121980884
I've seen Humvee and tanks being destroyed by IED despite their sensors.

> Checkmate Atheists.
What's wrong with you ? I'm not atheist
>>
>>121981707
>but completely overpriced
Not him, but speaking as someone who served in the USAF, they wouldn't be if Lockheed and other companies didn't purpose overprice everything, right down to charging 10x the normal value for just rivets.
>>
What if the mech could skate though?
>>
>>121981823

Oh man, I fucking love the Votoms WHIRRRRRRR noise
>>
>>121976844
>Tank VS Mech
Nice try, not doing it again.
For what I care mechafags can stay delusional all they want.
>>
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>>121981103
Heat is not a solvent, it does not corrode things.
Heat is not a magical energy that cannot be dealt with, air cooling, radiators, and circulating liquid coolant all exist for the express purpose of keeping machinery from overheating.

For someone who comes off as so well learned, you don't seem to know very much about how actual machines work, do you?
>>
>>121981859

Let's see a tank blow up a planet
>>
>>121981763
But not a mecha because it can walk over the IEDs.

Checkmate Atheists.
>>
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>>121981526
>>
Hover tanks shit all over mecha unless some bullshit magical plot device is involved.
>>
>>121981823
Like Code Geass?
>>
>>121981913
Hover tanks are themselves magical bullshit though.
>>
>>121981491
And where would all that gas be stored? The issue isn't "Can enough power be had?", but "Can enough power be had within the Gekko's volume?"

We'd need batteries more efficient than what we currently have (C2 and Al batteries are coming along), or nuclear reactors more compact than what we currently have (Lockeed displayed an experimental "pickup-size" fusion reactor late last year).
>>
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>>121981935
I dunno do they skate like Votoms in Code Geass?
>>
>>121981707
It's cheaper than the Eurofighter even at LRIP prices. The Rafale costs just over $100 million per plane. Once orders start to be placed, the F-35A is, for example, expected to go down to $85 million. The Gripen is the only one that is significantly cheaper, at $70 million, but is much less capable. Even that $70 million doesn't tell everything. South Africa was pissed that it was significantly more expensive to operate than they were told.

You are wrong.


>stealth only so-so compared to other stealth fighters
What, the F-22? Probably. Anything else, speculation. However, the T-50 and Chinese planes are probably inferior due to various design choices such as inlet design and canards.
>>
>>121981894
Yeah like a soldier who walk over a claymore...
>>
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>>121981103
Dumbest post so far today.
>>
my power armor shits on tanks and mechs

>carries a nuke for the shoulder launcher
>jump jets
>bugs cant do shit to that armor
>rifle rounds can punch through the thickest material
>>
>>121980776
>what is remote control
>>
>>121982070
Heinlein pls, and aren't you supposed to be dead?
>>
>>121982070
Yeah well

My mech carries 2 fucking nukes, one on each arm.
It works on water and produces oxygen by the way, it's fucking ecological as shit.
It's also super fast and has eagle eyes
>>
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>>121981904
>>
>>121982015
Soldiers don't have jump jets.

Game-Set-Match Atheist.
>>
>>121982144
Mine has a force field that stops everything.
And a katana.
And is super fast.
>>
>>121977781
How about a mech that can transform into a jet
>>
>>121982180
The ride continues.
>>
>>121982180
>Implying that mecha just sits there and waits to get toasted
Baka.
>>
That's nice but, when has a tank ever been able to do this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3UjVW9MrOo
>>
>>121982272
Mine has a Lance, which are better than those shitty thin katanas.
It also comes with a atomic punch generator that can go through any barrier
>>
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>>121982272
Yeah, but what happens if you have to shit? I best your suit doesn't have a built in toilet. It wouldn't fucking fit. I bet you have to shit your pants.
>>
>>121982280
you'd have too much trouble taking off
>>
>>121982335
>he doesn't wear exosuits that decompose shit and turn it into fresh air and food
>>
>>121982287
The point is that no matter what he does to counter one thing everything else is killing him

>>121982284
ride ends after this anons retort, I'm going to sleep.
>>
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>>121982354
Check GunMetal vidya

Also thread related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK8V9jG7Wjg
tank + mecha
>>
>>121982364
>He walks around with an uncomfortable tube up his ass.
>>
>>121982287
This is one thing that mecha definitely have over tanks, that being mobility.
Generally tanks need roads to travel at their top speed, although I can imagine that a mecha in real life would suffer greatly from one of the issues with heavy armored vehicles, which is sinking into soft ground.
Since their weight will not be distributed across tracks, but focused into two points, being their feet.
>>
>>121982335
It has a gun that frosts my shit into pure energy and shoot it to the enemy, it can kill anything in the universe with one shoot.

>>121982322
>atomic punch
Oh yeah, but mine has fast reflex that dodge bullets.
>>
The problem is mechs have been built up too much.

No matter how much you argue tanks are better, it doesn't change that we have mechs that are galaxy destroyers and do the shit like it episode 5 of Gunbuster. It just becomes a nonissue, because unlike tanks, mechs have been turned into superheroes in machine form.
>>
>>121982412
>uncomfortable
>>
>>121982419
My bullets travel through the speedforce and can't be dogded

Get fucked nerd
>>
>>121981959

Much less than mecha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyOtIsnG71U

Fucking Strike Witches make more sense than mecha. There is absolutely no reason to use large humanoid robots for combat. At all.
>>
>>121982433
>we have
>>
>>121982471
>Fucking Strike Witches make more sense than mecha
>dis nigga
>>
>>121981823

Make skating tanks. Or skating spider tanks.

Why would you ever give it a humanoid form? It serves no purpose.
>>
>>121982494

Does the fact that animation exists not count as having it in fiction?
>>
>>121982433
I agree, it really depends on what Mech or Mechlike you pit against a tank. If the mech is even semirealistic, then there are definite pro's and con's on each side, but if its something that can fly, has nigh undefeatable armor, and shoots a billion lasers from every part of its body, then obviously the tank would lose.
>>
>>121982503
So you can walk around when you're not skating.

Why did god invent roller skates if he intended people to walk?
>>
>>121982465
Oh yeah? well my mech or suit, I don't really remember at this point, regenerates instantly so I take no damage.
Also has tier100 ERA.
>>
>>121982433
>Implying there aren't loads of supertanks
Do you even play video games?
>>
>>121982503
>It serves no purpose
Grabbing more ammo? other weapons? Tossing shit aside? You know, human form is quite nice.
>>
>>121976844
Tanks.
>can be mass produced
>easy to train operators for tanks
>easy to maintain
>cheaper to produce
>>
>>121982562

Yes I do. I have yet to see a tank that can do the things Getter Emperor can.
>>
>>121982539
Sadly mechafags don't think it's fiction.
>>
>>121982497

Humanoid robots made for battle are even more bullshit. Especially the flying ones.

At least witches have magic and shit all over physics.

Mecha trash tries to be serious and presents mechas as a viable war machine. That's just complete bullshit.
>>
>>121982568
>muh cheap
>>
The only way to answer this is by asking what can hold more cute girls.
>>
>>121982409
this and this

fuck you faggy mechas
>>
THIS IS THE BEST THREAD
>>
>>121982503
>Why would you ever give it a humanoid form? It serves no purpose.

it's psychological, it brings back the idea of man-to-man combat.

If you make the machines humanoid, then by proxy it becomes two humans fighting.
>>
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>>121982612
>not making a supersentai series with a megazord where all characters are lolis
>>
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>>121982180
>>
>>121982612
Mechs obviously, Tanks are cramped as fuck.
>>
>>121982564

Why would you need other weapons? If you don't waste so much space for useless limbs or head you can take bigger weapons and more ammo.

So what for? Close combat weapons? Please. Nobody use that shit anymore and for good reasons.
>>
>all these people who want mechs to be realistic
>they don't want their mechs powered by COURAGE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPISf2iP7Kg

You people have lost your childlike sense of wonder
>>
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>>121982609
Quantity is a quality of it`s own.
Where you can build one mech and train operator for it, you can easily mass battalion of tanks against it,divide the troops and outflank all strategic defense points.
>>
>>121982564
Cons being that they stick up a lot more, unlike a tank which is (at least these days) somewhat flat, and benefits greatly from sloping armor.
Limbs are also a two edged sword, yes legs and arms give you more ability to manipulate and move, but are more susceptible to being amputated, and can't be as heavily protected as the skirted tracks of a tank unless you're willing to sacrifice mobility and flexibility for heavier armor (which also increases strain on whatever system powers the whole thing, and increases cost of fielding the weapons system).
>>
>>121980119
>Lol laser class that melt everyone
You do realize that helicopters can just fly under the minimum altitude of laser-class just like the TSF's do, except since a helicopter has a smaller profile they also have much more room to maneuver.
>Lol fort and fortress class.
Not even an argument mate, those fuck up everything equally.

>>121980129
>Tanks can't go supersonic
Neither can mechs, unless they have some fancy-ass super jetpack... Like TSF's do. If you put the jetpack on a tank it can supersonic.
>Tanks don't have arms.
You can give them arms, which will still make them cheaper/easier to produce than a mech.
>Treads don't work on every single type of terrain.
Neither do legs with fuckhuge ground pressure. Once again though, you can get around this mobility issue by making your tanks into hovertanks or giving them a jetpack.
>Helicopters cannot fight on the ground, which is necessary when laser class beta are in the area. You need to quickly move from the ground to the air.
They can operate below the laserclass min. altitude far easier than any TSF can because of their smaller profile.
>Enjoy your dead humanity
Humanity wouldn't be nearly as fucked as they are in Muv-Luv if they didn't put all their resources into making stupid and cost-ineffective TSF's.
>>
>>121982654
Until some random muslim shoots out one of the mech's leg with a rpg. So much for intimidation.
>>
The only feasible Mech on Mech combat would be if all nations agreed not to fight conventional wars and instead settled all their disputes with 1v1 giant robot fights.

This would be an ideal world.
>>
Last time mechafags were convinced that humanoid shaped mechas were obviously better for space combat that anything else since they could "travel around freely and point everywhere, not like spaceships".
>>
>>121982612
>all new mecha franchises sell like shit
>GuP appears
>instant hit

Yeah, mecha is crap.
>>
Depends what type of warfare we'll be fighting then.
Both gundam and star wars use strategies and tactics straight from ww1 and musket based battles, and real world tanks follow modern maneuver warfare. yet both are fairly useless in space, the next step for war, where point defense, speed, and missile targeting are the future.

likely we'll see mid sized ships circling each other in wide sweeps shooting missiles, then retreating to take out the enemies' launched missiles, then circle back to do it over until one is hit.
>>
>>121982721
WE G GUNDAM NOW
>>
>>121982414
Mecha can have reactive boosters mounted on the back for instant acceleration. In case of getting stuck or for accelerating to top speed.


Or for generating momentum for devastating mawashi geri.
>>
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>>121982568
>easy to maintain

it's not fucking box with treads like it was, that shit's complicated now
>>
>>121982654

This shit is utterly pointless in real war. It looks cool on screen. But in reality it's a retarded concept.

For the price of one mecha you would have a formation of like 10 tanks, 5 attack helicopters and 3 fighters that could do all the mech could but much better.
>>
>people think all mechs are lego blocks like the original Gundumb
>>
>>121982721

FLYING THE SKY
>>
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>>121982789
>>
>>121980948
Anon, that sentence doesn't even make any sense.
>>
WHAT IF MACROSS MECHS
>>
>>121982805
Field maintenance is relatively easy, at least a lot easier than legs.
>>
>>121982805
Not as complicated as mechs.
>>
can tanks cross-counter when punching each other?

I think not.
>>
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>>121982831
>>
>>121982863
>>121982851
Doesn't matter mech or tank, when it gets hit, it takes the same amount of time to take that shit out and replace it. Any mention of "easy to maintain" on either side is complete ignorance of mechanical maintenance.
>>
>>121982805
Modern tanks are completely modular. Anything short of major repairs can be done with 2 guys and a wrench
>>
>>121982280
Cross Ange?
>>
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>>121982831
There you have it folks; the mech genre deconstructed in 4 pages.
>>
>>121982805
Not really.
Consider the powerplant of a tank like the Abrams.
Its a completely self-contained system that can be easily and quickly replaced because instead of multiple systems all connected to different things, its every part of the engine in a single unit.
It makes maintenance much easier to preform, or in the case of a complete failure, makes replacement easy.
>>
>>121982849
In reality trying to transform while flying at supersonic speeds will rip your entire machine apart.
>>
There are people than thinks giant robots aren't just a big practice target for ATGM/JDAM

>>121982956
> it takes the same amount of time to take that shit out and replace it.
No it is not, you have just proved you complete ignorance of mechanical maintenance.
>>
If you're going to build a mech, just fucking go all out. Destroy all pretense of realism so no one can bitch.

Make it become stronger with the pilot's willpower
Give it a transformation that exists purely to sell a new model kit
Make the only people who can pilot it hotblooded teenagers that love to scream attack names

Just fucking go for it.
>>
>>121982966
>>121982896
>>121982831
>>121982789
That's pretty stupid and every single concern the idiot raises can be easily countered.
>>
>>121982956
The major difference is that tank can be easily replaced. Whole idea of mech seems to fight against our current tacics regarding mobile warfare
>>
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Look at this shit.

Shell traps fucking everywhere. Weak spots fucking everywhere. A giant target.

And it's armed with one 120mm gun with very few rounds and 36mm gun.

That's just pathetic.

Not even mentioning all the expensive shit inside to make it move, you could use all this metal to make at least 10 tanks with 10 120mm guns each one with 10 times more ammo.

Mecha are just fantasy bullshit.
>>
>>121983040
Go ahead please.
Hard mode: No magic / Future non existing tech
>>
>>121983068
>Mecha are just fantasy bullshit.

Exactly, so why not go full hog and make them the stuff of fantasy?

Why are you limiting yourself to reality? All the OP said was tank vs mech, and last I checked there's no tank equivalent of ttgl.
>>
The only way mechs are could be practical in war is in a construction/logistics role, and as mobile AT/ART/AA in a spidertank format. So basically, only by serving in a support role can mechs see practical use.
>>
>>121983098
>>121983068

the genre is called science fiction for a reason
>>
Tanks really don't get enough love in anime. I especially like the spider-esque tanks like the ones in Sora no Woto.
>>
>>121983040
You say that, but you're actually an idiot, which is why you didn't back yourself up.
>>
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>ruining the fantasy of my Chinese cartoons
>>
>>121983147
We know that, that's why we come to this threads to laugh at people who doesn't.
>>
>>121983147
Only if you bind yourself to science fiction.

Demonbane wasn't a sci-fi VN, it was a pulp story.
>>
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>>121982869
>>
>Mecha are just fantasy bullshit.
I'm sure that's what they said about tanks before they were actually a thing.
Just you wait..
>>
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Why would you choose tank when you could have a sexy sexy gundam?
>>
>>121983203
>tanks

nigga this trench is perfectly safe.
>>
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What would spider tank-kun fall under?
>>
>>121983210

Sexia is the best, truest 00 waifu
>>
>>121983098

The problem is if the setting is full fantasy or some super advanced technology there is absolutely no point to make a mecha either.

You can make super advanced tanks and hover craft.

Humanoid body makes no sense. It's there only to look cool and make fights seem more person vs person.
>>
>>121978310
What is the advantage of having two stupid legs? Structural weakness.
>>
>>121983088
Arm missiles a shit, but missiles could be launched from an arm-mounted pod.
Shrink the Mecha in size, a bipedal system can still work to produce a machine large enough for a human to ride inside.
The section of the body which contains the cockpit is separate from the section of the body that holds the legs by a neck-like structure.
Gyroscopes will feed constant information to this structure which will compensate for the swaying motion produced by walking, as well as keeping the Mech balanced while it maneuvers.
Both helicopters and jets have relatively compact propulsion systems that could allow a mecha to if not fly short distances, than at the very least jump or boost itself from one location to another.
>>
>>121982409
nigga I was already talking about gits tanks in this thread

there is no possible way to keep the joints moving buttery smooth like that, friction and weight are the two biggest arguments against large walkers

that said, spidertanks are still far more viable than bipeds like gundams, in that they could function realistically, but they just wouldn't be good
>>
>>121983046
You see now, tanks and Jets are pretty straight forward - movable canons.

While mecha is fortified human form with limitless applications.
Heck, can use huge rocks to throw at targets if out of ammo, and that's just one example.

The cost debate, while fuck all who use it as an excuse, since there's an oiled industry ready to fart out tanks like no tomorrow.
If mecha would be mass produced the cost would be manageable.
>>
Can you fuck a tank?
Are tanks waifu material?
>>
>>121976844
whichever is piloted by a japanese teenager who just wants a normal life
>>
>>121983203

Tanks are an insanely old concept. Chariots were basically ancient tanks.

Mecha would be useful in construction works. Exo-skeletons could have some military uses.

But large humanoid robots? Pure fantasy.
>>
>>121983231
I really liked this show a lot more than I should have.

But anyway, Tank-kun is just a really futuristic tank.
>>
>>121983203
Who said that? Do you even know why tanks are invented?
>>
>>121977035
Metal Fatigue allows you to do that, altough you need a lot of tanks.
>>
>>121983282
>there is absolutely no point to make a mecha either.

Maybe because the people making the show like mechs

>It's there only to look cool and make fights seem more person vs person.

Exactly. What's your point?

I just wish I had the picture from Da-Garn that was basically
>why is there's a lion head on the chest?
>because it looks cool
>>
>>121983231

It's a tank. And a perfectly viable concept that's actually worked on by various countries.
>>
>>121983371
>Pure fantasy
Submarines were fantasy.
Heck, none could even imagine a fucking pc 1000 BC.
>>
>>121983344
Of course, double doubles.
How could you not love a tank?
>>
At least in Argevollen they show the tanks being barely useful vs. mechs.
>>
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Mechs are better.

roof:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgV2UXFZBiY
>>
>>121983371
Mechas are super old concept. Stilts are basically ancient mechas.
>>
>>121977459
saucepls

I love this crazy shit.
>>
Man, I just want to give a machine superpowers. Why do you niggas gotta care if it can happen in reality? It's a fucking tv show.
>>
What about atomic powered hover tanks with extendable pincers like crabs?
>>
>>121983314

Please, something so large and heavy would require insanely strong joints.

You would need insanely complicated systems to make it move and keep balance, and when something fails you are left with a pile of scrap metal that can't move.

Making something so heavy and lacking any aerodynamic qualities try to fly is as retarded as flying elephants.
>>
>>121983457
Even before we had technology for subs there is an obvious use case for them. I imagine any historic naval commander would love to have ships that can sail underwater.
Mechas are like having submarines and saying fuck that let's make enormous mechanical fish and fight each other with them.
>>
>>121983412
When they were first made they were too slow, got stuck and took a LOT of fuel. It wasn't until Patton started using them with infantry late into ww1 did the tank have hope of getting effort put into them. until then the trench was everyone's niche.
>>
>>121983321

Spider tanks could be good. They would not replace normal tanks, but would be a very nice addition for certain environments.
>>
But can a tank be a giant nazi wielding a flaming chainsaw?
>>
>>121983546
Because the thread is about whether mechs or tanks are better.
>>
So if humans were 15 feet we would all die because our legs somehow don't support us?
>>
>>121983642

But mechs appeal to the childlike sense of wonder and the idea of being a hero that saves the world. They're automatically better.
>>
>>121983457
>The concept of an underwater boat has roots deep in antiquity. Although there are images of men using hollow sticks to breathe underwater for hunting at the temples at Thebes, the first known military use occurred during the siege of Syracuse (about 413 BC), where divers were used to clear obstructions according to the History of the Peloponnesian War. At the siege of Tyre in 332 BC divers were again used by Alexander the Great, according to Aristotle. Later legends from Alexandria, Egypt, in the 12th century AD suggested that he had used a primitive submersible for reconnaissance missions. This seems to have been a form of diving bell, and was depicted in a 16th-century Islamic painting.
>Although there were various plans for submersibles or submarines made during the Middle Ages, the Englishman William Bourne designed one of the first workable prototype submarine in 1578.
>>
>>121983599
But that's wrong. The Brits were experimenting with combined arms before American soldiers even reached European soil.
>>
>>121983633
I still need to watch Danger 5.
>>
>>121983483

They are ancient exoskeletons. Completely different category than mecha.
>>
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>>121983651
Yes. What are you, 12?
>>
>>121983725
And yet they never got beyond experimenting. Patton had the most success with it and was thus given most credit.
>>
>>121983651
It maybe sounds silly, but yes. The tallest man Robert Wadlow was almost 9ft tall and he had lots of issues with infections and injuries in his legs.
>>
>>121983651
All of the tallest men in the world have some sort of joint problem. Now imagine if the average human is double the height of a basketball player, self explanatory.
>>
>>121982471
Being able to get a superconductor to float over a very strong magnet does not make a hover tank. You'd also need those superconductors to be room temperature superconductors which is currently still magic sci-fi wankery.
>>
>>121983651
If humans had always been 5 feet tall, i'd think we'd have evolved in a way that made it possible for us.
>>
>>121983914
15*
>>
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So, why are people so butt hurt over idea of having mech irl one day?
>>
>>121983823
Anon plz. That experimenting is responsible for the Allied powers breaking German lines by the time Americans even arrived.
>>
>>121983567
>Strong robotic joints
Its more likely than you think.
>Movement and balance
Check out the robots created by Boston Dynamics.
>When something fails you are left with a pile of scrap that can't move
Just like every other machine that uses moving parts.
>Making heavy shit fly
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-26
This helicopter can lift not only its own weight but nearly sixty metric tons of cargo.
>>
>>121983651
we would be too heavy to move. mass baby
>>
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I take your sci-fi tech used to make a mech and make a tank out of it instead.

Bolo anime adaptation when.
>>
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how many tank anime have this literal motherfucker?

checkmate atheists
>>
>>121984012
Doesn't Bolo already have an anime?
>>
>>121983693
Concept of mecha seems doing quite fine these days, so I guess we will see them in the future then.
>>
Wait wait wait, if I take a humaoid form, and just multiply everything by 10 it gets fucked?

I mean, I can understand current humans having a size limit given bone structure and whatnot, but you're telling me there's no feasible way to up things up?
>>
>>121983871
You'd also need to coat the battlefield with magnets.
>>
>>121984061
see what you did there

Organics would have a hard time, but machinery would be better.
>>
>>121984061
lrn2square-cube law.
>>
>>121983871

Yes. But far less than magical 30m tall robots that can run, jump and fly.

You even saw a fucking elephant jump 10 meters?
>>
>>121976844
Bolo. End thread.
>>
>>121984027
>I fucked your sister!
>Well that upsets me a bit because you're an asshole, but she's a grown woman and it's her decision who she sleeps with.
>and your mother
>FUCK YOU ASSHOLE
>>
>>121984061
If you increase the height by 10 times, the mass gets increased 1000 times because 1D vs 3D.
>>
>>121984061
No you can scale things up. The comic's criticism was kinda dumb, even though I think mechas are silly in practice.
>>
>>121984042
We wish.
>>
>>121984137
>But far less than magical 30m tall robots that can run, jump and fly.
No it's exactly the same level of bullshit because they're both impossible.
>>
>>121984049
>Concept of robot seems doing quite fine these days

FIFY
>>
>>121983852
>>121983865

This guy:

>>121983914
Not to mention the tendency of human average height to grow slowly over the years. (even nips)
>>
>>121976844
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTLMjHrb_w4
neither.
>OH GOD HELP ME, SOMEONE HELP ME, HELP ME-AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH-
>>
>>121984145
What if we have really thin mechs?
>>
>>121984224
What would that achieve?
>>
>>121984200
>exoskeleton
I guess, it's fine if some people can't figure out how it's related.
>>
>>121984061
Weight imposes certain constraint on structural shapes.
Elephants per example are much larger, heavier, and taller than humans, their legs are like pillars to support that weight, a limb that was more slender wouldn't support that kind of weight, it would snap under the stress.

To size things up, you change your materials, stronger, lighter materials mean you can build bigger and less bulky structures, because they reduce the effects of weight constraint.
>>
>>121984260
Thin mechas.
>>
>>121984260
Less Mass?
>>
>>121984224
Needs smaller, stronger parts that may equal in density, thus being ruining the purpose of lighter weight
>>
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>>121984061

We're limited by things like pressure and tensile strength of materials. The largest machines we have have to move REALLY slowly in order not to break.

See pic related, has to be built like a suspension bridge.
>>
>>121984138
Land mine - no bolo.
No to mention, looks slow as hell.
>>
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>>121984224

Nagano pls

Before anyone asks, that's not realistic in any sense, that's the point. Nagano is a petty, bitter old man who doesn't want his mechs to EVER have models because he doesn't want anyone to have them but him, so he makes them like glass figurines so that model kits are impossible.

He also lost his shit when SRW accidentally put one of them in a game thinking it was from L-Gaim, on the grounds that "I don't want my beautiful machines fighting and being destroyed by those brutes!"
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File: Mecha vs Tanks.gif (3MB, 252x194px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
Mecha vs Tanks.gif
3MB, 252x194px
>>121983040
ok
counter this three points that do not deal with bipedal mecha being impossible
1. they are larger targets than tanks of equal size
2. they carry smaller canons/guns than tanks of equal size and less ammo
3. engineering 101 the more complex a machine is the more likely it is to breakdown
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>>121983987

Are you legitimately retarded?

Nothing of that makes mecha plausible.

Comparing tiny industrial robots with giant mecha is just idiotic. Mecha joints would need to be 50 times more durable. Especially if shit is supposed to run and jump.

Yes, some helicopters can lift huge cargo. But they fly like bricks. Combat helicopters need to be fast and agile.

And no, it's not like every other machine at all. Tanks are 50 times simpler in comparison to mecha. When something breaks in a tank usually it can be fixed fast.

Mecha would have 300 times more moving parts that could break and and 100 times more advanced avionics than normal war machines.
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Mechs are cooler
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>>121982710
I'm pretty sure there's a video of someone strapping a scramjet to the top of a tank somewhere on YouTube.
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>>121984049

Like what? They appeared in few fantasy films and that's it.

No scientist is working on combat mecha. No army wants them.
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>>121984374
>What is the future.
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>>121984357
The larger size thing is a bad argument. A humanoid machine much like a human can crouch or go prone to massive reduce it's profile. Complexity and cost are better reasons but I wouldn't say they're necessarily prohibitive if you don't go full retard and have 5 story robots.
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>>121976844
Well if im in a t90a and my max effective range with a 130 mm cannon is 3 klicks and im using apfsds then yeah i can probably destroy a mech before it even sees me
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>>121984296
>>121984307
No, I mean, how are you going to do anything with them when they snap like a twig?
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Guys, you do realize that in OP's pic, the mechs in that universe are powered by literal magic and black box technology that people who make them don't understand because in the other games by that creator, they're powered by an enslaved extradimensional god.

You guys DO know that right?
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>>121984418
Some of the requirements for DARPA's exoskeleton program implied combat use. Most notable the "can operate a normally crew served weapon individually" requirement.
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anime about tank squad doing tank things destroying mechs when?
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>>121984530

DARPA's whole reason for existence is finding wacky SCIENCE ways to kill people.
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What if we make a mech out of Diamond and whatever the newest carbon-superlight-superstrenght material is?
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>>121984530
Exoskeleton is different from a large mecha. If we had the tech to make Halo armor it would make sense to, making 40ft humanoid tanks doesn't.
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>>121984530
DARPA also once seriously considered the idea of the helicarrier like in Marvel comics

>what if it is shot down and crashes onto a city?
>yeah, but what if that city isn't on our side?
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