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Mahou Shoujo

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How do you feel about the mahou shoujo anime of this decade, /a/?

>Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon: Crystal
>Dokidoki! Precure
>Fantasista Doll
>Fate/kaleid liner Prisma Illya
>Genei wo Kakeru Taiyou
>Go! Princess Precure
>HappinessCharge Precure!
>Heartcatch Precure!
>Jewelpet Tinkle
>Lilpri
>Madoka
>Majokko Shimai no Yoyo to Nene
>Nanoha movies
>Panty & Stocking w/ Garterbelt
>Pretty Rhythm
>Smile Precure!
>Suite Precure
>Symphogear
>Yuuki Yuuna wa Yuusha de Aru
>>
>90's Shoujo > 2000's Shoujo > actual Shoujo
Shoujo nowadays is shit, with the suffering and all this retarded plot.
>>
>>121306331
You forgot Rose of Versailles > all
>>
>>121306331
mahou shoujo was always shit faggot.
>>
Surprisingly shitty. If Princess Precure doesn't end up being good it'll be an average of less than one good one per year
>>
>>121306331
While I agree, this faggot has a point >>121306427
>>
Nanoha, Madoka, YuYuYu and maybe Symphogear are the only good things to come out of the genre this decade
>>
>>121306250
Are you defining this decade as starting winter 2005?
>>
>>121306696
You more than likely haven't even seen half of what you have decided is not good.
>>
>>121306250
>sailor moon crystal
A bunch of potential wasted by the rushed CG and Usagi's VA showing her age (not that I can blame her)
>Prismal Illya
I like shows that don't take themselves too seriously. It's cute and a decent watch.
>Genei Wo
Feels underrated but the plot seemed a bit rushed/forced. Another show that had a lot of potential they never used.
>Madoka
Don't think I need to say anything about this we don't already know.
>Nanoha Movies
Cute, but would rather see new stuff. 3rd movie is going to make or break the series' chances of new stuff I think.
>PSG
Similar to Prisma Illya in that it doesn't take itself too seriously, but that fucking ending...on the other hand, it's Gainax. We should have seen it coming.
>symphogear
Pretty good, all things considered. Strikes a good medium between grimdark and being able to do something about it.
>yuuki yuuna
Tried to copy the madoka formula, failed, but was still decent in its own right.

>all the precure
If it prints money, they'd be stupid to not keep it playing.

The ones I didn't list I never saw enough of to make a decision about.
>>
>>121306331
>331▶>>121306395 >>121306427 >>121306546
>90's Shoujo > 2000's Shoujo > actual Shoujo
Even though I agree you're confusing mahou shoujo with shoujo, which is very, very, very, very different.

2/3rd's of the anime listed in the OP is not remotely marketed to children.
>>
>>121306764
Some of the Precure shows are actually really fucking good, its like Gundam it varies from season to season.
>>
>>121306801
What the fuck just happened to my post?
>>
>>121306801
Pretty much like this guy >>121306696 has a list where everything isn't really a proper mahou shoujo show but a twist of some kind on mahou shoujo formula to appeal to otaku audiences.
>>
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>>121306830
looks like a copying fuckup

>>121306809
Yeah. Still, 6 shows (with a 7th on the way) in 5 years is a lot. They've making bank off it, and though I haven't watched much it has to be doing something right if they can keep spitting new ones out.
>>
>>121306764
>Yuuki Yuuna
>copying madoka
Please Anon, thats like saying Symphogear copyed Madoka, which is total bullshit.
>>
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>Like
Go! Princess Precure
Heartcatch
P&SG
Yuki Yuna

>Meh
Madoka
Symphogear
Yoyo to Nene

>Haven't seen yet
Dokidoki
Lilpri
Nanoha movies
Pretty Rhythm
Smile
Suite

>Dropped
SMC
Symphogear S2
Fantasista Doll
Fate/kaleid
Genei
HappinessCharge
Jewelpet Tinkle
>>
Are there any upcoming Mahou Shoujo shows worth waiting?
>>
How do I get into Mahou Shoujo? I don't want to watch hundreds of Precure episodes
>>
>>121307234
Nanoha Vivid
Symphogear S3
that Shaft one called "Magical Suite Prism Nana"
>>
>>121307314
>how do i get into mahou shoujo
>i dont want to watch mahou shoujo though
>>
>>121307314
Start with Utena, if you don't like that the genre just isn't for you.. If you did like it move on to CCS. Then after that watch 100 episodes of Precure.
>>
>>121307094
>Dropping fantasista
Is like you don't enjoy fun
>>
>>121307336
Don't forget Pleiades and LWA 2.

I'm not from the future though, so I can't tell you if they're worth it or not.

>>121307314
Fucking casual.
>>
>>121307436
>If you don’t like Ikuhara, you don’t like Mahou Shoujo
You what?
>>
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>>121307314
start with Nanoha
>>
>>121307314
Watch Tutu or HeartCatch PreCure.
>>
>>121307436
But Utena isn't a mahou shoujo
>>
>>121307436
Ikuhara fucking sucks, no thanks. I guess I'll start with CCS and Nanoha. Why did I even ask

>>121307452
>casual
You fucking what?
>>
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>>121307557
>Ikuhara fucking sucks
>>
>>121307557
CCS is a decent entry level but even then you might aswell just got for a PreCure show because it has the same number of episodes as one.
>>
>>121307436
Utena is nothing like most mahou shoujo. For seinen mahou shoujo I'd say the easiest way to get into the genre would be Nanoha, for shoujo mahou shoujo (the Saturday morning cartoon mahou shoujo) I'm not sure since I don't really enjoy them. I'd say Fun Fun Pharmacy or CCS.
>>
>>121307615
I bet you like Yuasa
>>
>>121307675
As do most people with a modicum of taste.
>>
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>>121307625
>Fun Fun Pharmacy
I'm so happy that this was mentioned.
>>
>>121306427
>Mahou Shoujo was always shit
As expected of a tripfag
>>
>>121307675
Why wouldn't I? He's one of the better directors.
>>
>>121307616
Which one?
>>
>>121308017
I started with Futari wa just because its the first but you can start anywhere really, you could just pick up the currently airing one that is 3 episodes in.
>>
>>121308017
Heartcatch
>>
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GOOD MAHOU SHOUJO (shoujo and seinen):

- Heartcatch Precure
- Futari wa Precure
- Princess Tutu
- Madoka
- Nanoha (muh mecha musume)
- Fun Fun Pharmacy
- CCS
- Sailor Moon
- Utena

BAD/NOT WORTH IT MAHOU SHOUJO:

- Everything else

HONORABLE MENTION:

- Ribbon-chan
- Love Hime
>>
>>121308174
It was a good list until you said everything else was bad/not worth it.
>>
>>121308174
Creamy Mami
Ojamajo Doremi
Minky Momo
Tweeny Witches
LWA

All also good, there is Re: Cutie Honey too.
>>
>>121308467
>Ojamajo Doremi
>Minky Momo

Yes, true, I'll give you those.
>>
>>121308174
GOOD MAHOU SHOUJO (shoujo and seinen):

- Heartcatch Precure
- Futari wa Precure
- Princess Tutu
- Madoka
- Nanoha (muh mecha musume)
- Fun Fun Pharmacy
- CCS
- Sailor Moon
- Utena
- Majokko Megu-chan
- Ojamajo Doremi
- Yuki Yuna
- Full Moon wo Sagashite
- Magic Knight Rayearth
- Cutie Honey
- Kamikaze Kaitou Jeanne
- Corrector Yui
>>
>>121308544
The original Cuite Honey anime is just fucking awful though.
>>
>>121308596
I should have put re: in front, that's the one I was talking about.
>>
>>121308174
>>121308467
>madoka
>>
>>121306331
I can agree with this, I want another cyber team.
>>
>>121307436
I like Utena and all but recommending as a starting mahou shoujo is fucking retarded.

>>121307439
A lot of people can't get past the first 3 bad episodes.
>>
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>>121308544
>Corrector Yui
Good to see someone else who remembers this show
>>
>>121306250
It's mostly for disgusting pedophiles so I stopped giving a fuck.
>>
>>121309416
It's mostly for little girls actually.
>>
>>121309479
Not anymore.
>>
Does Shugo Chara count as mahou shoujo
>>
>>121309508
Yes.
>>
>>121306250
Missing Vividred from that list.
>>
>>121309526
Sort of. The boys also transform, though.
>>
>>121309645
Bibipan a shit.
>>
>>121307336
>that Shaft one called "Magical Suite Prism Nana"

I thought that's just for a pachinko
>>
>>121307041
If anything YuYuYu and Symphogear "copied" (really just took inspiration from) Precure and Nanoha.
>>
>>121308174
>>121308544
>Symphogear not even getting an honorable mention/considered "not worth it"

The plot may be dumb as hell but at least they're aware of it.
>>
>>121307041
>>121309825
You can't deny that the show blatantly attempted to be similar to Madoka in some aspects though. Not saying that it was outright copying but it was very obviously influenced.
>>
I thought Madoka was mediocre, but are there any other plot-driven MS?
>>
>>121309952
stop yuyuyu is great on its own fuck off
>>
>>121309716
And so is Sailor Moon Crystal, but it's on the list.

>>121309774
They teased at new stuff with a new girl.
Would be nice if they made an anime rather than just a few music videos before they go there though.

>>121309825
Even if Yuuna is a brawler, they're too weapon-focused for that. Design, style and structure-wise it was also completely different.
>>
>>121309952
The only similarity is the colorful "other world"
>>
>>121309947
Man, after Symphogear, I can't even imagine Aoi Yuuki as Madoka anymore
>>
>>121309952
The distribution of some of its key story points was reminiscent of Madoka, but it was so subtle, minimal and meaningless because of the alctual execution, that such thread could be linked to quite a few other shows.
>>
>>121309952
Did Madoka develop the idea of Mahou Shoujo being sacrificed for the sake of the world? Legit question, I haven't watched enough Mahou Shoujo.
>>
>>121307041
YuYuYu took inspiration from practically any seinen Mahou Shoujo before.
>>
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>actually denying madoka inspired yuyuyu

I get comparisons are annoying as hell but, come the fuck on, there's nothing wrong with that.
>>
>>121310123
No, self-sacrifice is a common theme in Mahou Shoujo.
>>
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>>121310085
Yeah, who could've imagined her going from a cute little soft-spoken literal goddess to HOT BLOODED BADASS TRAINED ON ACTION MOVIES WHO'LL BEFRIEND YOU OR BEAT YOUR ASS SIX WAYS FROM SUNDAY TRYING.
>>
>>121310181
YuYuYu wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for Madoka's boom, just like Gen'ei wouldn't have left production hell.
>>
>>121310085
I watched Madoka after Symphogear and yeah, it surely changed the experience
>>
>>121310279
Sure this isn't a mecha anime?
>>
>>121309979
I never said it wasn't great on its own, I loved YuYuYu. But fucking hell, you have to be a blind delusional retard to not see how similar it was in some aspects. Being influenced by other shows isn't a bad thing though.

Overall it does feel like a vastly different show (than Madoka) with an entirely different appeal as well as much more lovable characters and welcomed comic relief. I just personally feel that the story wasn't executed anywhere near as well and I was sometimes distracted by the similarities to the point where I would have preferred they had approached things in their own way.
>>
>>121310463
Okay now go away.
>>
>>121310123
One could argue that they took the idea from Bokurano and used it in a Mahou Shoujo context. Bokurano is also on its own a deconstruction of old super robot series.

Also, not quite a mahou shoujo, but close enough, My-Hime already had the idea of magical powers that come at a great cost.
>>
>>121310420
>YuYuYu wouldn't even exist
You have no way of proving this.
>>
How about Mahou Shonen?
>>
>>121310438
Sure you aren't retarded?
>>
>>121310420
Didn't they puposedly delay YuYuYu because of Madoka?
And didn't Gen'ei Taiyou enter developement hell in 2010 or 2011?
>>
>>121310234
Yeah, one thing is saying its a rip-off, other thing is saying its somewhat inspired by.
Speaking of which, does anyone here have that image which compare YuYuYu characters to some Dragon Quest characters?

>>121310488
Were the chairs in Madoka a reference to Bokurano?
>>
>>121310463
Just fuck off
>>
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>>121310438
Well it does have a general on /m/. Still has a lot of Mahou Shoujo tropes though.
>>
>>121310438
It is.
>>
>>121310553
>Were the chairs in Madoka a reference to Bokurano?
Possibly so, I've read many people pointing that as a reference. I don't know if anyone from the staff confirmed it though.
>>
>>121310492
Yeah, I'm sure as hell producers would let a nobody like Takahiro make real his original creation if there wasn't any chance of being succesful.
>>
>>121310663
If SHAFT had to comment on every reference they put in their shows, they would never have the time to complete any OP.
>>
>>121310488
Madoka took a lot of ideas from superior anime/manga but never lived up to them.
>>
>All these butthurt YYY fanboi casuals
Go watch some good MS newfags.
>>
>>121310790
Why? I already watched the best the genre has to offer.
>>
>>121310790
YYY was the last good one since 2010.
>>
>>121310742
>The guy who worked on Majikoi and other shit
>a nobody

yeah okay
>>
>>121310847
How did the Majikoi anime sell? I remember that one being produced by Pony Canyon.
>>
>>121310546
All the staff mentioned having the series planned for two years and we have some art from early 2013 which featured all the characters with their final designs.
Though, saying that it was delayed because of the flops in 2013 is pure speculation and a stupid one at that, original shows are hard to plan, specially ones that aren't led by a studio (Though how much Gokumi cashed in on that licensed Atelier animu clearly shows they were getting ready for YuYuYu)
>>
Doremi > tutu > SM > Nanoha > everything else

Most of the recent mahoushoujo is tryhard shit like Madoka or blatant ripoffs of other shit like Precure. Truly the best genre has died.
>>
>>121311122
>tryhard shit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcn0tj_6sbI

Thanks, Madoka!
>>
>>121310483
>>121310570
Why are YuYuYu tards so against any discussion comparing the two? I'd understand keeping that shit out if this was a YuYuYu thread but it's not. Stop being so autistic.
>>
>>121311294
They know the show can't survive if compared to a half-decent one like Madoka
>>
>>121311294
Madokafags are the most fucking autistic and retarded here, you are asking too much.
>>
>>121311294

I'd consider those comparisons especially bad in a general magical girl thread as opposed to a YuYuYu thread. You'd that here at least, people would be familiar enough with the genre to have watched more than three shows and know that Madoka didn't invent darkness or color-coded hair.
>>
>>121311452
It did popularize real weaponry and giant monsters which make the dialogue with the antagonistic side impossible
I mean yeah, people who say YuYuYu is a copy of Madoka because the protagonists are pink are retarded, but that don't mean there is a lot of other shit that was copied indeed
>>
>>121311553
fuck off
>>
>>121311553
>It did popularize real weaponry and giant monsters
Video games did. The same kind of video games that the main target of both shows usually play on a daily basis.
Not like "giant enemies that must be killed" wasn't strong in mahou shoujo already.
And not like "each girl has a different weapon" wasn't, too.
>>
>>121311572
Truly an excellent retort. This isn't a rec thread, at least try to tell the guy why he's a retard instead of just making yourself look like an ever bigger retard than he is by just shitposting.
>>
>YYY not a Madoka ripoff with more SoL
Kinda how SnW is a weaponized K-ON Though I'm not saying they weren't good.
>>
>>121311553
>It did popularize real weaponry and giant monsters which make the dialogue with the antagonistic side impossible
Oh boy.
>>
>>121311553

Madoka popularised monsters? Really? If anything, YuYuYu drew its monster dynamic from mecha shows, where the characters tend to be protecting something from invading forces rather than hunting for magical macguffins like Grief Seeds or Clow Cards.
>>
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After Bikki and Madoka, which sort of magical girl should Ao-chan voice next?
>>
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Nanoha is love, nanoha is life! posting best wolkenritter
>>
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>>121311553
>real weaponry
>giant monsters
You are hilarious
>>
>>121311911
A lesbian eating bear
>>
>>121307041
It is a blatant copy. It takes so much of the setting that it's comical, because in Madoka a lot of the setting details were important to the plot, but YuYuYu copied those setting details and didn't do anything with them.

For example, the idea of the antagonist being a force of nature and the system itself got copied wholesale, but where it's central to the story Madoka was trying to tell, it's underdeveloped in YuYuYu but it's there anyway because Madoka did it.
>>
>>121307436
Start with Tonde Burin.
>>
>>121311965
>Rocket hammer is real
Okay.
>>
>>121312121
Congratulations on missing the point and the message of the show, said point was how valuable daily lives are.
>>
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I know there is some shit slinging going on right now but here are some reasons to watch Nanoha if you haven't already. I have long considered this my favorite anime series of all time, and I have recommended it countless times.

- a main character that gets shit done. She's brutally efficient, too.
- supporting characters that carry their own weight. Everyone has a story and I can't say any of them are are intolerable.
- well defined universe. Everything from the setting to the magical spells to the magical devices is explained and done so in detail. If you like explanations, there are plenty to be had.
- magical fighting. 10/10 fights will make you forget you're watching little girls.
- the plot. season 1 starts of slow, with an episodic feel that calls back to its roots, but it gets heated pretty soon, with the momentum carrying on into season 3 before you can see any slowdown. The characters are doing meaningful things most of the time, not much filler to be had.

things to watch out for:
-strikers can be boring at times.
-A's doesn't last forever
-there isn't a season 4
>>
>>121312121
>the system itself
YuYuYu
>Hero system with side-effects if too much power is used fighting the adversary
Madoka
>Magical system where emotions are the direct cause of the show's adversary

What?
>>
>>121312467
Nanoha used to be my favorite but Symphogear usurped that place.
>>
>>121312602
I thought Symphogear was forgettable due to the bland writing and stupid plot.
>>
>>121312678
Someone never read the keynotes. There is an explanation for pretty much anything.
Latter half of G was a mess though, I will admit it.
>>
>>121312761
Where can I read them?
>>
>>121312121
>It’s so similar it’s comical
>“YuYuYu did x different” in the same sentence
kek
>>
>>121312855
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=symphogear+keywords
lmgtfy because otherwise the system register the post as spam.
>>
>>121312330
>Madoka's transforming staff-bow is real
>Sayaka's unlimited blade works and exploding swords are real
>Mami's unlimited gun works and spider man ribbons are real
>Kyoko's transforming solid-to-segmented spear is real and her diamond barriers are real
>Homura's time stop buckler is real

>Yuna's fire punching and kicking and giant hands are real
>Togo's gundam funnels and spaceship are real
>Fu's girl power is real
>Itsuki's bondage bangle and magic shields are real
>Karin's exploding swords and four robo arms are real
>Sonoko's floaty blade spear is real
>Gin is real
>>
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>>121313118
>Gin is real
Don’t make me sad, anon.
>>
>>121312467
>-there isn't a season 4
Yet
>>
>>121311759
Funny you'd say this because, comparatively speaking, YYY is nothing like Madoka and SnW is nothing like K-On but YYY has a lot in common with SnW.
>>
>>121315962
>YYY is nothing like Madoka
Except it borrows everything from it: setting, characterization, formula, visuals, etc.
>SnW is nothing like K-On
The only thing different is a little less retarded Yui in SnW.
>YYY has a lot in common with SnW
They both shamelessly tried to cash in from previously successful works and mostly succeeded, so gotta give you that.
>>
>>121316273
>characterization
Stopped reading here. Madoka has no characterization to speak of.
>>
>>121306250
>how do you feel about shit anime of this decade, /a/?
Fixed
>>
>>121316521
It has, a bit problematic at times but saying its not there is just being outright retarded.
Not agreeing with >>121316273 though, I don't really see the link between the characters of yuyuyu and madoka outside of the color code
>>
>>121316521
>Madoka has no characterization
The entire show is explaining the character motivations according to their own personality. Lack of depth is not the same as lack of characterization.
>>
>>121316273
>Madoka invented the magical girl setting and formula
>YuYuYu has Inu Curry visuals
>>
>>121316699
I'm not saying Madoka invented anything, they just put a lot of existing tropes together in a unique way. YYY copied the same arrangement but giving more focus on character interactions instead of character development, but following the same basic formula.
>>
>>121316849
Yes, YuYuYu is a fucking magical girl anime, that’s why it copied the fucking magical girl formula. Jesus Christ, watch some more anime, faggot.
>>
>>121316958
Don't bother arguing with Madofags.
>>
>>121316958
>there's just one magical girl formula
You should be the one watching more anime of this genre to keep yourself from ridicule mate.
>>
>>121317062
I’m a Madofag myself and will happily argue that Madoka influenced lots of producer decisions, that’s only natural because jews gonna jew, rightfully so even, but the creative process is something else entirely, especially in Japan.

>>121317107
I interpret magical girl formula as girls fighting in dresses. That’s just about all of the similarities between Madoka and YuYuYu anyway, that and
>oh no, dark tweeeest that was never seen before™
>>
>>121316273
>characterization

What now?
>>
>>121317298
YuYuYu totally stole everything from Madoka. I mean look, the heroes fight the Vertexes, which are secretly heroes that have been corrupted, to collect their Vertex Cores which they use to recharge their phones which are actually their own souls. They each become a hero by making a wish, which is why Yuna doesn't become a hero until she comes up with the perfect wish to end the suffering of Itsuki who turned into a Vertex after the boy she liked started dating her best friend, and the suffering of other heroes all over the world which is not on fire.
>>
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I want Mahou Shoujo anime with Yuka Iguchi voicing best girl, oh right we already have that.
>>
>>121317776
>to collect their Vertex Cores which they use to recharge their phones which are actually their own souls
Cool fanon. Stopped reading there.
>>
>>121317870
What is sarcasm?
>>
>>121317298
You are wrong in both instances. Magical girl shows have obviously at it's core girls with magical powers of some kind, but the way in which the characters and stories are developed varies a lot, and although there are some elements that have become common in the genre, they aren't all the same formula with different characters.
>That’s just about all of the similarities between Madoka and YuYuYu anyway
Not only the dresses in YYY are more like battle miko suits and are entirely different form the ones in Madoka, the similarities between the two are so many I would need an entire website to list them all.
>>
>>121318057
Well, a website can be just two lines. So try it.
>>
>>121318036
>have no arguments to say Yuuki Yuna was original in its own right, so better be sarcastic about it
>>
>>121318168
>I have no arguments to say Yuki Yuuna was a ripoff of Madoka, so better greentext about it
>>
>>121312761
>you have to read some fucking keynotes to get a decent plot
That already says enough.
>>
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>>121306250
Heartcatch is fucking GOAT.
>>
>>121318427
I don't thing anyone actually things the plot in Symphogear is well written anyway.
>>
>>121318131
It's easier to list the dissimilarities.
Tougo and Yuna seem to have the closest relationship in the group but it isn't expanded in the way Madoka did it. It drives the resolution of the show in both instances though.
Everybody is mostly overenthusiastic about fighting Vertex from the beginning.
There's no cute diabolic rabbit that goes from ally to foe, the Taisha fulfill this role but aren't given any characterization.
There's an onsen episode.
Everyday scenes in Madoka have a more cinematographic style, whereas YYY tries the more familiar modern SoL style.
>>
>>121318958

That's some really masterful deflection. Like, seriously, politician-tier.
>>
>>121318958
The main difference is the wish system, in Madoka everything revolves around the idea of living with the consequences of a fulfilled wish that lead to despair.
>>
>trying to have a discussion when Madofags are present
>>
>>121319221
Yes, the whole wish thing is not even present in Yuki Yuna at all.
>>
>>121319107
Seriously this.

>>121319221
And, you know, the fact that one is an action slice of life for the most part and the other is downright a tragedic thriller.
>>
>>121312467
I haven't seen StrikerS yet since it's not out on BD yet, but judging from everything else I've seen Nanoha is fucking GOAT. It's supposed to be released in two weeks, so hopefully someone rips them quickly so I can be fully caught up with the franchise by the time ViVid airs.
>>
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>being a madofag
Yeah, sorry about that.

But, can you prove this wrong?
>>
>>121319221
The idea is that in both cases they decide to be magical girls and have to live with the consequences, the wishes are really secondary to the whole ordeal.
Take Sayaka for example. She wishes for her loved one to be happy again, but his happiness doesn't lead to hers. Eventually confidence issues leads Sayaka into despair. Fuu on the other hand becomes a magical girl to protect and become a motherly figure to her sister, but not knowing the implications of this she ends up getting Itsuki harmed. Knowing this leads Fuu into despair.
The repeating formula in both cases is: bad choices, someone please save us from our bad choices.
>>
>>121319663
Don't get your hopes up.
There's a reason the third movie is an original and not a StrikerS compilation.
>>
>>121319436
The Shinju does grant wishes. It's just that he only chooses girls whose wish is to protect the motherland.
>>
>>121319692
>muh delusions
>>
>>121320188
Drats, you have proved everything wrong with a two simple words.
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