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Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica

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Just how exactly would the system of Magical Girls have started? It's like the Chicken and the Egg scenario, so it gets confusing on how exactly everything was established.

120454788

If Sayaka and Nagisa are anything to go by, they apparently do still carry their Soul Gems after they are taken away.

I wonder what actually constitutes as a Witch? When we see Madoka cleanse all of those Soul Gems, they're only blackened and full of despair but not actually transformed into a Grief Seed to give birth to the actual Witch.

Technically, she really shouldn't have the power to erase a Magical Girl from existence unless a Soul Gem 100% full of despair counts as a Witch. Would this mean that Magical Girls are simply another form of a Witch?

Quite the fridge horror if you consider that the salvation from despair those girls felt was them initially thinking that they'll get to live another day but instead fade into non-existence and leave friends and family behind without a body to find.
>>
Ahh crap, forgot the >>

>>120454788
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Who Homu here?
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>>120455990
HOMU
>>
>Madoka Magica will never achieve the popularity of pure unfiltered shit like Naruto
Why do people have such relentlessly awful taste?
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>>120456403
Because Shonen sells like how sex sells in TV, Movies and commercials.

Probably wouldn't be half as known if it didn't broadcast on Toonami after DBZ stopped re-running.
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>>120455990
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I liked Homu before she became evil
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>>120457574
She became Evil itself but she never was evil
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>>120457574
Who doesn't?
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>>120457574
And I stopped when she did.
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/a/ sure loves homu very much.
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>>120457831
You should see a decent thread. It's retarded shitposting and circlejerking and everyone loves Homu
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>>120457853
wait don't get me wrong. I always read the thread and I'm a homufag
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>>120455990

>>120455109
>Would this mean that Magical Girls are simply another form of a Witch

Well, Sayaka said the equivalent to 'Witches are people too' in regards to magical girls, so you could say this but in the reverse order.

>>120457574
>>120457691
Your lack of faith is disturbing.
>>
Why does this show get so much attention? It's not a bad show, in fact it's pretty much great, I'd give it 8/10, but you people keep talking about it day in and day out.

And the "oh yeah the universe is dying so we just kinda discovered if we travel really really far somewhere in the universe to this planet and turn the habitants into magical girls and then have them die will replenish the universe's energy for a bit", just, does nobody see anything odd with that?
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>>120455990
10/10 post
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>>120458030
8/10 is a decent opinion. For me, it's my favorite, and also my waifu's show, so I find it pleasant to talk about it, even every day

And I don't see why it'd be odd. Hell, we'd travel the same distance just out of curiosity, so I guess humans are weirder
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>>120458030
maybe finding a huge population of living things with high abundance of emotion isn't an easy thing to do
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>>120458181
Well it sure is harder than finding the shift key
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>>120456403
Because if it means a fanbase of nothing but /u/ shits who aren't willing to talk about anything but ships I'd rather it didn't.
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>>120457938
Mmm, though would that actually allow Madoka to simply take away a Magical Girl even if they're not in despair simply because they are pretty much the same as Witches?
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>>120458030
Being good is not a requirement for an anime to be talked about in this board, you know. For the ones that you almost always find a thread on the catalog, Madoka is easily among the best.

For why there are so much threads, well Rebellion provided plenty of material for discussion, for starters with people disagreeing over Homura's actions.

>>120458244
It is implied that Madoka taking them away is like a mercy kill, sparing them of the suffering they would go through while existing as witches.
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>>120455109
You can confirm that the Mitochondrial Eve is the first girl whom QB contracted in 2015 Monthly Madoka Illusts by Inucurry.

Everyone was the descendant of magical girl
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>>120458461
Right, but I'm asking when they're not in despair and are still fighting as Magical Girls. Maybe even having a fully purified Soul Gem.

Would Madoka still have the power to take them away due to their connection to Witches? The montage of her appearing before the many Magical Girls throughout time seem to imply that she can.
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>tfw Mami's mamis were deliberately exaggerated by animators of Shaft every time.
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>>120456403

You know Madoka anime sold many times better than Naruto right? And manga volumes are cheap as toilet paper in comparison.

Also:

>039 Madoka Magica-------0.43%-------6,596,200,000
>041 Naruto-------0.40%-------6,136,000,000

That was back when Madoka barely begun.

Yes, Madoka makes more money than Naruto. Who cares about popularity amongst underage retards?
>>
>>120458516
But if there's a Magical Girl, there must be a Witch for her to fight if she contracted.
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>>120458661

If there are no witches wraith start appearing.

First magical girls fought wraiths. Then witches started appearing.
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>>120458694
That makes no sense. Wraiths only exist in the rewritten universe that Madoka created as a replacement for Witches.
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>>120458661
You're right. I don't know why Inucurry said like that. What filled Mitochondrial Eve's soul with despair? I don't get it.
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>>120458758

Nope. Wraiths are born from negative emotions if there are no witches to gather them.
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>>120458642
Not to defend Naruto's quality in any way, but Naruto has at least a dozen games, and the goal of the anime isn't to sell BD.
For the time it has run and all the merch around it (for shippuden only, MFC returns 328 figures, even if there are more for Madoka, it's still a banging number for a serie which main audience is teenager.), the fact there are more movies and more episodes, I think it makes as much, if not more money than Madoka
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>>120458030
>why people have different opinions?
Every time, people like you never failt to amuse me.
consider this young boy, people talk about shit I don't care all the time, do I care?
No, because who gives a shit, I'm not egocentric to think that there's no way people can think differently.
>>
>>120458802
That is not how Witches and Wraiths work. Witches are born from a Magical Girl who has fallen into despair. Wraiths are born from the negative emotions of regular humans.
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Tell me, /a/, how can a race with no emotions live on?
No emotions means no desire and no desire means instant stagnation and death. Probably even from starvation.
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>>120458461
I thought they let them live but take their witch form.
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>>120459050
No emotion, only logic. It's instinctive to want your species to survive, so you do what you can to achieve that.
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>>120459050
It's not desire that push you to eat, it's survival instinct. I remember seeing a really bad disaster movie once that had this premice, except it was something the plants dispatched into the air that had this effect.
It's not because you have no emotion that you turn into a lemming.
Animals don't have emotions, bacteria and virus don't have emotions, they don't die because of starvation because of that. Instinct is a far greater drive than emotion.

>>120459091
I don't think it's specifically wanting the specie to survive, more an individual survival that, as a consequence make the specie survive, at least for animals.
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>>120459050
Do you think a swarm of E coli in your stomach has emotion?
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>>120459124
Is that movie called The Happening?
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>>120459050
I think it's likely that they had emotion at some point in their past, since QB says it's considered a mental disorder for them. Perhaps they just removed emotion from themselves as they became more advanced, or it was a side effect of other alterations, but they wouldn't want to remove survival instinct.
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>>120459195
Yes, that's the movie.
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>>120455109
>Just how exactly would the system of Magical Girls have started? It's like the Chicken and the Egg scenario, so it gets confusing on how exactly everything was established.

What? No it isn't.

Witches can exist on a world where there are no megucas. Not all witches are created from megucas, they're also created from those imp shitters of theirs they spawn who start eating people until they eat enough people to turn into witches themselves.

Remember Kyouko? What she wanted to do was to leave the imps (forgot what they're called) alone so they eat people and turn into witches and then kill them to farm grief seeds indefinitely.

What probably happened is QB came to Earth, seeded a bunch of those imps, imps started growing into witches and killing people, and then contracted dumb teen girls into becoming megucas by telling them about imps and witches and how they're the only ones who can stop them.

I thought this seemed pretty obvious.
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>>120459271
They're called familiars anon. And familiars only spawn from witches, so that doesn't make any sense.
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>>120459124
What about experiments with move when they were infected with endorphins or such and were so happy that it became the only emotion and they didn't even eat?
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>>120459305
Yes it does.
I mean, it doesn't answer the question if the question was "What came first, the witches or the familiars", but the question here is witches or megucas. And since witches can exist independently from megucas while megucas cannot exist independently from witches, the obvious conclusion would be that witches predate megucas.
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>>120459367
Familiars are essentially a subset of witches. If there are no witches there should be no familiars.
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>>120459171
It has function and no mind.
Single function microorganisms operate on quite a different mechanics from you and me, don't they?
Even to do anything productive you need emotions and desires even if we accept that you would still eat.
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>>120459383
Not really a subset, more like the earlier form of witches. Like how babies are the earlier form of adult humans.
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>>120459447
Babies are just young humans.
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>>120459460
And familiars are just young witches?
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>>120459475
Yeah.
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>>120459050
>no emotions means no desire
That's some embrassing level of ignorance.
Emotions have nothing to do with desire, animals don't have emotions, they live purely on instincts, which is how they survive.
>>
> kyuubei tells girl to become magic girl to fight witches
> magic girl realizes there is no witch and kyuubei says she's the witch
> girl despairs
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>>120455109
Since wraiths seem to spontaneously appear once witches are erased, I don't think it's too far-fetched to imagine that wraiths existed naturally first, only to be replaced by the more powerful witches once magical girls started contracting and despairing.
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>>120459475
Yes but only when they're spawned off a Witch who was originally a Magical Girl.

Magical Girl becomes Witch - Witch spawns familiars - Familiars eat humans - Become independent Witch - repeat step 2.

A Magical Girl still needs to have fallen into despair and become a Witch for Familiars to have started existing.
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>>120459498
> animals have no emotions
That sounds extremely unbelievable to me.
Can you give a link that supports it?
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>>120459588
The first witch could have easily been created by QB's race using their technowizardry in the same way they created megucas.

It seems more logical that QB's race would infest Earth with witches and then trick girls into contracting them to fight these witches to harvest emotions than for them to try to trick girls into contracting them to become megucas in a world where witches don't even exist yet.

QB tried to convince Madoka and Sayaka to contract by having Mami show them around and see her fighting witches and familiars and protecting innocents from them, remember?
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>>120458030
Because a lot of people fell in love with Homura when episode 10 aired, and still love her today. It's why Madoka threads typically end up talking about Homura.

Not that I mind, I'm a Homufag myself
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>>120459757
Plenty of megucas contracted without ever seeing a witch though, the main draw is the wish.
>>
I think my wish would be to change places/roles with QB.
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>>120459859
An Incubator with a Soul Gem.

Wonder what the Witch would be like.
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>>120459769
>not fell in love with Homura since the beginning
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>>120459769
We can talk about Sayaka-chan instead.
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>>120460020
She gets a pass for not despairing the same day she contracted like Nagisa.
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>>120460020
Sayaka-chan is the best.
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Mami > pre-Rebellion Homura >> major power gap >> Sayaka > later anime Kyoko >> power gap >> Madoka > early anime Kyoko >> Rebellion Homura
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homu is the cuddliest madoka
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>>120460335
Can't tell me what to do, gelbooru-kun
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>>120460335
Who has the best curves? Mami. Who has the most loving, warm personality? Mami. Who is more stylish than all the other megucas put together could barely even dream to be? If you don't answer pic related, you don't know shit about being effay as fuck..
>>
Could some kind anon dump some hi-res pics or maybe link to a folder containing such? I'd like to make a puzzle out of them but you need really high quality pictures
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>>120460405
Mami has shitty ass and legs
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>>120459757
Creating a Meguca only involves placing the soul into a Soul Gem.

Compare that to creating an individual living breathing creature.
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>>120460405
>cow boobs
>best curves
Don't even get me started on the "stylish" shit
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>>120460020
>>120460135
>>120460163
>>120460192
>>120460335
>>120460393
Sayaka a baka
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>>120460335
Don't be silly anon, Sayaka-chan is friends with all megucas.
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>>120460457
>Mami
>cow tits
Literally retarded. Your opinion is worth less than the dick cheese under my foreskin.
>>
Post best girl
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homuhomu attakku!
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>>120460504
>>
>>120455109
homuhomu <3
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>>120460535
ok
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mami is a lonely wretched lecherous pervert
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>>120460695
What did she post? Pic related?
>>
>>120460452
>Creating a Meguca only involves placing the soul into a Soul Gem.
The process of converting a normal human being into a meguca involves placing their soul in the soul gem.

QB still needed to come up with a way for that to happen, to create megucas, to be able to separate your soul from your body, to create a vessel to store souls, to create the purification process that keeps the souls going, to create the process of transformation from megucas to witches, and ultimately to create witches. The whole point of megucas is to release energy and convert to a witch. That's why they experimented on Homura in Rebellion, because they figured out (thanks to her loud mouth) that they're not getting anywhere near as much energy as they should, which they used to before Madoka rewrote the universe.

It's not like witches are an unintended side effect of megucas being megucas, when QB engineered megucas they also needed to engineer witches.
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>>120460754
Or this maybe
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>>120460616
Mami might be lonely, but she is not a wretched lecherous pervert. Probably a lolicon though.
>>
>>120460695
>tfw you watched Madoka too late
>tfw you have to pay the slowpoke tax on the figmas

Hopefully there will be a reissue during the next big release.
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>>120460806
Alright, she's not wretched
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What's her verdict?
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>>120460884
homu must be loved by madoka for all eternity of course
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>>120459498
Seriously though I'm waiting.
First thing in Google points to wiki where it says animals do have emotions.
And I do believe that they are needed for progress and lack of stagnation.
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>>120460884
Sentenced to 1000 years of lesbian sex
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Sexiest devil
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>>120460949
futa sex, you mean.
http://exhentai.org/g/781002/041a545d7d/
>>
>>120460949
they are using dick though
>>
>>120460826
To be honest, the Figmas aren't that much more expensive than when they were released.
>>
>>120460884
>>120460921
>>120460949
>>
>>120461008
There's that one Madokami figure that's being traded for 3 times its cheapest value now though.
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>>120460949
With live stream footage.*
>>120460607
Finally somebody with good taste.
>>
>>120460973
>rape your past selves
I was not prepared for this level of lewdness.
>>
>>120461008
Shipping is though.
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>>120461065
His previous Madoka doujin is pretty incredible as well. Too bad it'll never get translated because of >futa.
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I would take all home except for mami but if I only had to choose one I'd pick homu
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>>120461041
Original Retail - 4571 yen
Mandarake - Usually seen at 5000 - 6000 yen
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>>120460884
>Madoka as an arrogant, dictatorial, judgmental god
I want to kill her.
>>
>>120459984
We can't all be Madoka, you know.
>>
>>120461638
Be Sayaka. Even she admitted Homura looked hot.
>>
>>120461638
If Madokami is everywhere, then she's inside us too. In a way, we all have a little Madoka in us.
>>
>>120455109
>>120459271
>>120459579
I think it is pretty obvious that wraiths always existed and that it is because of kyubei's race if humanity was able to gain the power to fight them and therefore evolve.

It is a fact that by fighting wraiths mahou shoujo eventually become witches and before Madoka's revolution that must have happened very early in human history, so much that by the time the series starts witches have become the official evil of the world while in origin it has been wraiths.

In retrospect Madoka should have wished that wraiths never existed. But perhaps that would have also caused kyubei's race to never interfere with Earth, which maybe could have led our species to never evolve.
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>>120460020
>>120460135
>>120460163
>>120460192
>>120460335
>>
>>120460942
There's no proof that animals have emotions, my dear friend.
First of all, emotions are very complicated, and every complicated stuff is only possible if you have complicated brain.
Animals being primitve and very basic in their way of life, can't have emotions, simply because it's not possible or necessary.
They operate because of their instincts, they have no time to reflect what is going around them, to make their thoughts.
Shark don't feel any sorrow, love, sympathy, anger or happiness because they don't need it to survive.
Animals doing things because that's in their genes, they are programmed to do it, not because they want it, can bite you without any problem and won't feel bad about it. Why? because how the fuck they can feel bad about something they literally can't think about.
See what I mean? emotions are complicated, and animal senses and instintcs are not, human can feel happiness or anger because of things we found frustrating or pleasant through our thoughts, animals do not, they can dislike pain because of the basic senses they had, and those are not emotions.
That is said, some animals who is more complicated that most of animals, have some sort of emotions, but the point is, emotions are not necessary to live, they are not part of our evolution, they are only result of evolution of our brain.
>>
>>120462298
So Familiars are just wraiths warped by Witch's Barriers?
>>
I watched the series a while back and fell in love with it. It was just truly amazing work. I don't know why, but I put off Rebellion for a very long time, avoiding threads, discussion, and pretty much anything to do with the fanbase. I suppose I was simply afraid. I wanted to lock my thoughts on it up, and keep them to myself.

I finished Rebellion 5 minutes ago. I have no words...

except...

What the fuck did I just watch?

I feel utterly retarded after this. Can someone here please assist me?
>>
>>120461242

>I want to kill her.
you can't
>>
>>120462826
Homura did everything wrong
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>>120462922
Homura did everything right
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>>120462826
AI YO

Seriously though, much like the tv series, a rewatch is really helpful. The movie makes a lot more sense once you know where it was leading towards.
>>
>>120462982
I will definitely be rewatching very soon.
>>
>>120462423
>no link
I can see logic in your words but "we smart-they not, therefore we emote-they don't" still seems strange and kind of elitist.
But I digress.
Incubators are clearly highly intelligent species and what they do is evidently outside of simple animalistic desires if we may call them so. By the looks of their ability to manipulate space they used to have a lot of scientific progress, which, in my opinion, requires you to emote and strife towards such progress. It is quite ridiculous to assume that they made it purely on instincts.
Therefore I still fail to see how incubators are possible.
>>
>>120463124
Your issue is that you seem to hold the ability to have emotions in high regard, when it could very well be both positive and negative. In the big picture and the long run, we don't know if emotions are inherently good or bad.
>>
>>120463252
With this I agree, but I do believe that they are required for progress.
>>
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>>120463385
Absolutely not. It's not your emotions that help "progress" it's the use of your prefrontal cortex.
>>
What's the difference between a magical girl and a witch? Isn't it the same thing?
>>
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>>120458626
>that image

Lewd.
>>
>>120463499
no.
>>
>>120463588
The definition of witch is a female magic user
>>
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>>120463620
that is bad

magic girls are ''good``
>>
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Seriously guys. I have questions, but I don't really fully know how to word them just yet.
>>
>>120463719
It's ok anon. Once you figure out how to word them, we'll be here.
>>
>saw rebellion yesterday
>didn't ever understand it

This shit is too much for me
>>
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>>120463868
You are a fun, intelligent and interesting person. Where can I subscribe to your blog?
>>
>>120463124
I fail to see a problem.
They are highly advanced race, they could have emotions at some point but then become emotionless since it was no longer necessary for them.
They operate purely on logical thoughts and every thing they do is decided after thinking process and not instinct or emotions, they don't feel anything because they don't need it.
>>
>>120463868
I right there with you anon.

>>120463761
Did Homura steal Madoka's godhood in order to rewrite the world in her own way, taking the suffering on herself? If so, how? Is anything in the ending's universe even fucking remotely real? What happened to the incubators? Are these things just unable to be answered due to it being as open ended as it is?
>>
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>>120463868
I don't understand it too anon.

I mean how and why did they turn one of the greatest girls of all time into utter irredeemable trash in the course of just two hours?
>>
>>120458516
Has this been translated? Somehow I missed this
>>
>>120462003
So if I stick it in Homu it's not really NTR?
>>
>>120464190
>Did Homura steal Madoka's godhood in order to rewrite the world in her own way
Depends on what you mean by steal Madoka's godhood. She imprisoned the Madokami part in her soul orb according to the material book. I suppose this is what the pink stool symbolizes in that scene as it fuses with the soul gem to become the soul orb. As for Homura becoming Akuma Homura, that seems to be a separate thing in itself and simply the product of AI YO and Homura's own karmic destiny.

>taking the suffering on herself
Not really, not in a literal way at least. She does seem to be the only one not really happy in the world she created herself but that's it.

>Is anything in the ending's universe even fucking remotely real?
Since Homura mentions it's something she witnesses the second time and Kyubey outright says it's a rewrite, one could say it's just as real as the universe after Madoka's wish.

>What happened to the incubators?
>>120454105

>Are these things just unable to be answered due to it being as open ended as it is?
Much of it is speculation, yes. We don't know much about the mechanics of the new universe or how stable it even is.

>>120464240
In case this is not bait, feel free to elaborate on how that happened and maybe we can discuss it.
>>
>>120462826
Homura becomes the Devil for no reason as pic related proves and we all love her.
>>
>>120464504
>elaborate
Turns her love and respect of a friends dying wish into yandere-tier obsession and complete disregard for the wishes of the other person. Changes her whole look from something that looked pretty damn stylish and modest at the same time into a complete trashy bus stop hooker.
>>
>>120464240
Oh god it's this kind of retard again. Homura evolved but didn't do a 180turn as some people say, and if you think otherwise you're either retarded or haven't watched the movie enough.
>>
>>120464653
I never said she did a 180 you shitbrained mongoloid. Just because her character progression was possible to do without it being completely unnatural doesn't mean it had to be done or that it was good.
>>
>>120464649
>love and respect of a friends dying wish
That love and respect came from her love for Madoka, not the other way round, so when she saw a chance to make Madoka's life better, she took it.
>Changes her whole look
She's Evil, she has to look the part.
>>120464716
>into utter irredeemable trash
If that little bit of character progression changes your outlook so much, I'm kinda worried about you
>>
I-is kyubey okay?
>>
>>120464848
>little bit of character progression
>little bit
>>
>>120464649
>Turns her love and respect of a friends dying wish into yandere-tier obsession and complete disregard for the wishes of the other person.
She was always obsessed with Madoka, though. Along her quest through the timelines, she came to put her as her first priority, with everything else placing quite low. She also spent the whole time preventing Madoka from contracting even though she wished to do so, due to her dying wish from another timeline. In sum, Homura has always thought she knows best when it comes to what's good for Madoka. In this case, it's what happens once again. Homura thinks Madoka would be happier with her family, so she takes it upon herself to have it happening.
She knows the nature of her actions was forceful and went against people's free will more than she ever had before, so she calls herself evil and embraces the role.
>>
>>120464924
No and he shouldn't be. Little faggot not being respectful towards death. He deserves the worst.
>>120464945
From heavy-handed saving Madoka while following her wish from a past timeline to heavy-handed saving Madoka while going against her wish.
>>
>>120464848
>so when she saw a chance to make Madoka's life better
More like when she saw a chance to cage her in her own little world like an animal and completely shit all over whatever she fought and wished for, changing her role from someone who respected her, stood on equal ground with her and wanted to fulfill her dying wish into someone who looks down on her and treats her like a mere pet of whom she is a master of.

Also now dresses like a complete trashy whore, complete with the mannerisms.
>>
>>120465026
Just in case there's a single cell working somewhere in your brain, try watching the ribbon scene after AI YO. If it isn't enough, I suggest killing yourself
>>
>>120464848
>She's Evil, she has to look the part.
Perfectly sums up just how shallow her "development" in the movie was.
>>
>>120463868
Watch it again. Unless you're a complete retard, you'll get it. Just pay attention this time m8.
>>
>>120465026
>stood on equal ground with her
No, she didn't and she never wished to.
Her wish was to redo her meeting with Madoka and to be the one to protect her instead of being protected by her. This implies role reversal instead of leveling and that's how things were in the show in the first place, or at least how she was trying to make things, although failing in the end where she'd end up always being protected by Madoka.

Also, do what >>120465092 says, really.
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