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Why is it cool to hate Kiritsugu?

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Thread replies: 63
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Why is it cool to hate Kiritsugu?
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>>118679589
Because the people who shit on him aren't even half the man he is.

Kerry did nothing wrong. Though it was weird of him to insult Saber's views on how to save everyone when if the grail didn't exist his way wouldn't work either.
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Because he's a lovable dummy. It's also a defense against edgemasters.
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Because the dude is kind of a failure.
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Because of butthurt Nasufags who won't admit that Urobuchi is the better writer.
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Because he's Hard Man Making Hard Decisions #2219873.
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Because like his dual origin of binding and severing, literally every action he does makes everything worse.

But really it's because even his last breath was an awful curse on an innocent and charming boy.
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>>118679589
It can be amusing to laugh at failure and who is a bigger failure than him?
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You find this kid on the outskirts of a burning village.

How do you raise him?
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>>118680110
Send him to a therapist.
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I like Kiritsugu. Can't help but wonder if it's the HF crowd that hates him. He honestly wanted to save humankind, and after all the shit he went through, I'm amazed he could still tell himself that humanity can be saved. That's a really strong dedication to an ideal that I can admire. The problem was his inability to understand that he was literally trying to eliminate an aspect of human nature and thus he was betraying his ideals for a cheap method to obtain an impossible solution. But I forgive, because devotion to an ideal can blind a person.
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>>118680103
Saber, duh
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>>118680103
/a/
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Did Iri ever knew that he was emotionlessly fucking Maiya?

I wonder how Iri felt about that
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>>118680110
Sauce?
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>>118680362
Pretty sure it was implied in the novel that she knew, and I dont think she gave a fuck
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>>118679589
He is so stupid that I can't understand him.
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>>118680162
I don't think he cared he was betraying his ideals. By eliminating evil inclinations, he would be humanity's last hero.
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Because he was a fuck up who ruined everything he touched
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He's kind of a manchild and failure
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>>118680162
>>118680576
By eleminating conflict he wasn't eliminating humanity itself.
Even if he was succesful, the people that would come out of it couldn't be called humans anymore.
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Because in order to defend their precious VN, /a/ has to attack everything about F/Z.
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>>118680576
He probably cared when he realized that all his actions up to that point had been pointless because it was impossible
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>>118680679
But that's wrong, those people also love FZ.
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>>118680660
Humanity a shit.
>>118680692
After finding out the grail was evil?
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>>118679755
People only see from the inside. From the outside, he's a damn hero.
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>>118680660
I think he just should have thought smaller
Instead of "eliminating human conflict," what he could have wished for was "the elimination of the will of humans to kill other humans." It wouldn't entirely eliminate human conflict, but I think it'd be something he could actually imagine happening and it'd be a realistic goal that wouldn't entirely change human nature.

All that times he was a mercenary, I bet there was at least one time he pointed a gun at someone, ready to kill that person, and then he thought better of it and put his gun away. All he'd have to do is imagine every human doing that whenever they think about killing someone. Of course, there are cases where you'd have blurred lines, like with the lose-lose choices the Grail presented or in matters of something like abortion, so I'm not sure how it'd apply there, but it's still better than "no one fights, ever again"
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>>118681034
Humans would just find new ways to make other humans suffer without killing them.
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He's a fuckup who couldn't even properly teach Shirou how to do magic.
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>>118681129
Of course. There's a lot more evil in the world than just murder. I'm just saying I think it's something Kiritsugu actually could have pulled off with his Grail wish. I'm not even sure how Angra Mainyu could fuck it up
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>>118679589
Kerry a hero. He went through one shitstorm after another but never lost his hope for humanity. My heart still sinks when I remember him.
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>>118681034
To put it simply, Kerry wanted to do away with evil.
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>>118681233
Because he didn't really want to. Kerry is anti-mage.
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>>118681280
Easy, by eliminating the will of humans to do anything at all.

Remember kids, don't fuck around with malevolent wish-granting devices!
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>>118681280
> Let me be born into this world and kill most of humanity in such fucking gruesome ways that the remaining humans get PTSD every time the thought of killing someone even comes to their minds.
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>>118681349
He shouldn't have taught him at all if the best he was going to do was completely half-ass it.
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>>118681357
>>118681394
You guys just need to work on your genie-fu. Word it better and that shit doesn't happen
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>>118681432
The man was dying, give him a fucking break. He taught Shirou some to make him happy; he can't control Shirou being an autist.
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>>118681496
You don't get it.
This isn't some genius trying to fuck you up.
No matter what you wish the outcome will always be "Angra Mainyu is born and many people die".
The only thing you can wish for Angra to do is to kill something. Even wishing to live creates fucked up situations.
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>>118681556
Kerry was literally letting Shirou constantly endanger his life everytime he did magic for no fucking reason. You don't just "give him a fucking break" for something like that.
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>>118681290
I don't know, he wouldn't have sought a miracle if he had hope for humanity. But yeah, he killed the visions of his wife and daughter to save the world, so his detractors need to choke on the dicks they're sucking.
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>>118681611
Take out Angra Mainyu then, would you succeed then?
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>>118681611
>"Angra Mainyu is born and many people die"
I don't even understand this; Avenger was weak as fuck. Why are we supposed to believe he's capable of mass killing?
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>>118681699
Because the grail is trying to birth the Evil God Angra Mainyu
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>>118681699
>Why are we supposed to believe he's capable of mass killing?
See the final episode of FZ for an example. If Gil got his way, that stuff would never stop flowing.
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>>118681699
Because Nasu and concepts, obviously.
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>>118681650
You honestly think he 'let' Shirou endanger himself? Kerry died and Shirou had no one there to guide him anymore.
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>>118680362
Something tells me even if she knew she wouldn't care.

She would have understood why Kerry was doing it.

Above all he loved his wife and daughter, but he had to sacrifice them for a dream that could have come true if the grail wasn't tainted
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>>118681690
Of course.
But doing so is impossible thanks to the fucking Einzberns so enjoy your wish killing a lot of innocents.

>>118681699
The thing trying to be born in FSN wasn't the same as Avenger.
If Kotomine succeded that gigantic weird fetus things that you see in HF would have been born and then it would have killed a shitton of people, not Avenger.
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>>118681796
Yes because didn't ever bother to teach Shirou about a fucking switch. Magic 101 right there. That means that the time he used projections in front of Kerry; he did the long process of almost killing himself.
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>>118681743
>>118681744
>>118681818

Maybe I'm just not understanding the logistics of how or why this is supposed to happen. The whole reason the Grail got corrupt is that Avenger got put into it during the third war. How exactly does that translate to "actual god Avenger is based on being born and causing an infinite stream of fiery black mud to swallow up the Earth"?
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>>118681865
>causing an infinite stream of fiery black mud to swallow up the Earth"?
Counter Guardians would happen
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>>118681699
Basically, Avenger is a seed that got planted in the grail when he got his ass beaten. That seed is "the wish of humanity for an avatar of evil."

If the Grail is ever completed, that wish gets priority. Angra Mainyu will be birthed no matter what wish is made on the grail, and when AM is born everything dies.

And unless I'm forgetting something, the Grail doesn't really grant wishes so much as it creates a path to the root, so you can't just wish to poof AM out of existence or anything like that.
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>>118681865
Because that's Avenger's true form.
With the Grail, he can be born as the human-killing deity he is supposed to be instead of the weak ass Servant that he was summoned as.
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>>118681865

Avenger's skin is tattooed head to toe with the wishes of his village. "We wish that Angra Mainyu, all that is evil in this world, is real so that we may be without evil and hate and scorn him", effectively, is the desire they carved into his flesh.
Avenger himself is equivalent to a wish, a wish that there is an external "evil" that is independent from mankind. When he fell into the great grail, that all-powerful wishing machine heard a wish, and immediately started granting it...
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>>118681945

That is very much incorrect. The persian kid is not and has nothing to do with the vortex of curses. The persian kid's skin is marred with a wish, and the vortex of curses is what is made in response to that wish.
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>>118682031
Alright, that makes sense, however, I was under the assumption that the Grail only makes the wish of the victor of the HGW, the person who is there when the Grail is complete, and I was also under the assumption that the Grail was incapable of summoning deities under any circumstance, so there's no way Angra Mainyu could be born to begin with
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>>118682111
I guess I should read HA.
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>>118682133

The Grail is just a really buggy computer. It has a function designed to grant wishes stapled on to lure suckers to their death, and normally only the winner of the fight can access this function.
They didn't expect that shoving a servant who's very existence was equivalent to a wish into it would activate it.

But yeah, the one that was summoned was just a farmer boy from ancient persia. Not a god or anything.
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>>118680110
Rape isnt the question but it is always the answer. His tears are great.
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>>118679589
Manchildren like to mock other manchildren to make themselves feel better about themselves.
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>>118679589
This is the Kiritsugu who shot a random bystander along the pier simply because he had good enough reason to suspect he was Caster's master. This is the Kiritsugu who lied to Kayneth just to ensure that he could take out Lancer and both his masters. This is the Kiritsugu who will continue to talk to Natalia just to make sure the plane continues on the expected flight course so he shoot it down over the ocean. Even to the only living person in the world he cared about at the time, he would deceive and kill, simply if his instincts told him that was what he had to do. The difference between this time and all the subsequent times he would do this, is that we see him break down for the first time ever. Here we see the real Kiritsugu, the man filled with emotion, conflicts, doubts, anger, and lost to himself and the world. The face he hides from everyone because he has to, including himself.
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He drowned in his ideals and promptly died.
Thread posts: 63
Thread images: 5


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