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>the church is evil. DROPPED.

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Thread replies: 153
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>the church is evil.
DROPPED.
>>
Secondary please
>>
Are you implying that the church is not evil even in the real world?
>>
>show is pure boredom.

DROPPED.

But I'm assuming everyone already knew that.
>>
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>>118012525
>>>/r/atheism
>>
>>118012658
*unsheats two katanas*
kisama...
>>
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>>118012658
Good old Rust.
>>
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>>118012718
*teleports behind you*
Hikken, tsubame gaeshi.

Pssh nothing personnel kid.
>>
>>118012367
Way to completely miss the point of his character you anencephalic nigger.

He's born evil as a person, and he doesn't really understand why, it has nothing to do with him being in the church, that's unrelated.
>>
>>118012943
Is that some 2deep4u shit like he is shooting at god or something?
>>
>>118012989
people aren't born evil
>>
Kotomine != the church

and OP is a faggot as usual
>>
>>118012943
thanks god this utter shit year is ending already and season 2 of the best series soon
>>
>>118012367
But that's only inspiration from the real world.
>>
>>118013039
You didn't read the VN or understand anything about his character then.

He is twisted and does not know why, he was born that way, it's his nature. He derives pleasure from the suffering of others, that's how he works as a person, he can't enjoy the happiness of others.
>>
>>118013039
You were born as a huge faggot though.
>>
>>118012367
the church isn't evil, kirei is evil and he's an exception

in the nasuverse the church is basically the cleanup crew when people fuck around too hard with magic, they're not evil at all
>>
>>118013039
That's the problem, even he knows it's supposed to be the case, but he can't help it when the only thing bringing him joy is the suffering of others. Before Gil made him what he is now Kotomine tried to do his best in hope he can either know his purpose or become a new person, now he's just insane.
>>
>>118012948
*unsheathes third katana*
heh
just according to keikaku
sayonara
>>
>>118013216
I wouldn't say he's insane, just that he accepted his nature. A Guts that stopped fighting destiny, if you will.
>>
>>118012367
Just like reality.
>>
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>>118013039
then why was society created if not to control the savages?
>>
>>118012658
You can dislike the church without being a pretentious sausage knobbler like the guy in the picture or OP.
>>
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>>118012367
Jesus Christ
>>
>>118013465
Because you love the feeling of bureaucrat balls bumping against your chin you statist fagboy.
>>
>>118013465
niggers aren't people
>>
>>118013216
Based Gil
>>
>>118013526
When did priests get so tough? All the priests I've met seem to work out often.
>>
Kotomine is a textbook psychopath.
>>
>>118013616
Both Kotomine and Anderson are part of branches that specialize highly in combat.
>>
>>118013732
Kotomine is a textbook qt
>>
>>118013765
that too
>>
>>118013547

Keep it on /pol/ please

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxo9iEX8W1c
>>
>>118013241
hehhehheh....you just activated my trap card..
*summons the night*
You were in my genjutsu the whole time..now you will taste the darkness of my blood a thousand times!!!!!!!

KAMISLAMI DAMI WAMI FAMI BANZAI NO WAKASHU ZEN!!!!!
*turns everything as dark asbmy soul*
>>
>>118013241
>just according to keikaku
>>
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>>118012718
>>118012948
>>118013241
>>118014452

Ironic roleplaying is still roleplaying you autistic faggots.
>>
>>118014452
KISAMA
THIS NOT THE LAST YOU WILL SEE OF ME
I SHALL BRING THE RAGE OF KAMI UPON YOU
FOR NOW, SARABATA
>>
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>>118013084
I for one am not convinced with the choice of the irish guy from In Bruges. But we will see.
>>
>>118012367
>DROPPED

Too bad. 2nd cour is going to be the spring AOTS.
>>
>The villain is evil
DROPPED
Try to be a little original.
>>
>>118014709
I'm sure they have an excuse...the only problem is, how old do you have to be to use this site?
>>
>>118014452
*runs behind you summoning multiple blades
tawake, you will die here
*360 jumps away shooting unmissable exploding arrows
pssh, nothing personal seigi no mikata
this is just the fate of all heroes
>>
>>118012367
>#blessed
>>
kirei doesn't even fucking represent the church at this point anymore

he stopped representing it when he killed his dad, you know, the actual overseer of the last holy grail war

he's just pretending to be the church appointed overseer and the actual church just doesn't give a fuck because all the other priests are too busy being evil

pope benedict would have put an end to kirei's shit
>>
>>118014766
hehhehheh
good luck

>>118014709
a new foe...? you should stay in school...to be cool
*crows carry me away*
>>
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>>118014880
>villain

He's just pro life, like any decent priest.
>>
>>118013616
I'd imagine you need to find a lot of hobbies to keep yourself from masturbating in your idle time.

So why not work out?
>>
>>118012367

Empires, churches, gods, and organizations are always evil
Only the honest hard working japanese equivalents aren't.
You should know that by now, baka gaijin.
>>
>>118012367
>Fate
DROPPED.
>>
>>118014880
>muh "extremists with good intentions"
Fuck those antagonists, they are gay as fuck.
Villains who can be both evil and charismatic like Kirei are what we need, not those "I was just trying to save everyone, I'm not really a bad person even though I killed your whole family and raped your grandma's dead body."
>>
Is Kirei edge done right?
>>
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best girl thread?
>>
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>>118015615
Kirei is love.
Kirei is life.
>>
>>118015615
He only loves you for your AIDS.
>>
>>118012525
I agree with OP, but because "hurr the Church/Gov was the bad guy all along" is a fucking hackneyed plot-twist that just feels boring now.
The days I get more surprised if said institutions actually stay good and do nothing by the end of the story.
>>
>>118015034
He didn't kill his dad, that was Fastwheels.
And Kirei is a legit overseer.
>>
>>118012943
What was he shooting at?
>>
>>118015851
But the Nasuverse Church is fairly decent, they pretty much kill vampires and abominations like that to protect humanity.
Kirei is evil because he was born like that, not because he is a priest. In fact, if it wasn't for his father teaching him about morals, the value of life and all that shit he would be Ryuunosuke 2.0
>>
>>118015534
Edge done right isn't edge.
>>
>>118015216
This actually makes a whole lot of sense.
>>
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>>118014452
>>118013241
>>118012948
>>118012718
>>
Let's remember some good old scenes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV5_HJGtqk&list=PL76772616772514C6&index=94
>>
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Rejoice! Rejoice and be happy!
>>
>>118016209
Does he do that to himself because the resulting shits remind him of Angra Mainyu spilling out?
>>
>>118012367
The Church isn't particularly evil.
Hell, Currybutt and friends seem like pretty decent people.
Kotomine Kirei, the FAKE Priest, is just evil.
>>
>>118016358
Suffering makes him happy. It's the only food that causes nothing but suffering as he eats it (it supposedly tastes good too).
>>
>>118016209
Fucking Nasu, not giving the possibility of accepting Kotomine's offer is one of his worst sins.
>>
>>118013039
They are in Nasu's works.
That guy Lio was born as murderous psychopath, KnK Shirou was born as a worthless fuck and so on.
Something something origin of the soul
>>
>>118016231

>jpg

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT
>>
>>118016722
I believe Kotomine more than you.
>>
Kotomine isn't evil, he's just a natural troll at heart

Also evil people can't be pro-life :^)
>>
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>>118016839
Kotomine was born evil.
His origin probably is something like Evilness or Pain or Suffering.
>>
>>118016624
>Currybutt and friends seem like pretty decent people.
Currybutt has no friends.

And the Burial Agency ain't exactly full of righteous, noble souls either.

Also remember that they dissected Currybutt for a month without anesthetic when they discovered she was immortal.
>>
>>118016889
His origin is "Open Wounds"
>>
>>118013241
Verg Avesta, nigga
>>
You know what?
Risei must've been a fucking AMAZING father.
He managed to raise Kirei of all people into an upstanding, god-fearing man even if he was still a hollow shell on the inside, and he would've stayed that way too if Gilgamesh hadn't fucked it all up.
>>
>>118013468
No. You can be an atheist or otherwise lack membership in any sort of church without being a pretentious sausage knobbler.

But disliking organized religion, similar to being an anarchist, is a sure sign of fedorafaggotry.
>>
>>118016892
>And the Burial Agency ain't exactly full of righteous, noble souls either.
For the greater good.

>Also remember that they dissected Currybutt for a month without anesthetic when they discovered she was immortal.
What would you do?
Let the immortal go his way and see what happens?
No you want to figure out how it works.
>>
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>>118016722
Before Avalon, Shirou's origin was the same of Enjou?
>>
>>118017001
I'm a Christian without any love for organized religion. What now, faggot?
>>
>>118017123
Shirou's origin always was sword.
Avalon made his affinity SWORD.
>>
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>mfw secondaries who never read Heaven's Feel don't know that Kotomine is the most based character from Fate

hah
>>
>>118016988
> if Gilgamesh weren't the best therapist ever.

Fixed.
>>
>>118016858
>he's just a natural troll at heart
No that's Rin
>Her hobbies are admiring jewels and bullying Shirou.
>She's a mischievous girl at heart, so she loves teasing serious people. Please, try to bear with it, Shirou.
>>
>>118016209
The sounds he makes while eating sound like he's having sex.
>>
>>118017254
You mean worst right?
>>
>>118017001
>disliking organized criminals that have gone "legit" is somehow similar to being an anarchist and is a sign of "fedorafaggotry"
Oy fucking vey
>>
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Who's the better priest, Sancraid or Kotomine?
>>
>>118017431
Kotomine.
Sancraid was an edgy faggot.
>>
>>118017367
Best, he just shows you the truth.
>>
>>118017431
Who's more complex and voiced by Jouji Nakata? Oh.
>>
>>118017367
>freeing the most repressed man ever from his oppressive chains and making him know and accept his true self
>In less than 7 sessions
>not a genius therapist

Being a evil therapist doesn't make him less skilled. And the words and the reasoning that He used, man. One of the many things that make Zero great.
>>
>>118018011
He's a horrid therapist.
Therapy exists to make people acceptable for society, not to ruin them completely.
>>
>>118018269
>Therapy exists to make people acceptable for society, not to ruin them completely.
Except Kirei was still a perfectly well functioning member of society? He just became honest with himself.

Everyone except Rin thinks he's a great priest.
>>
>>118017237
>mfw neo-secondaries never read DDD, CCC, Tsuki remake and Mahou
>>
>>118018479
>Except Kirei was still a perfectly well functioning member of society?
Yeah, sure.
We sure see how well that works out, especially during HF.
>>
YOROKOBE, SHOUNEN

KIMI NO NEGAI WA YOYAKU KANAU
>>
This thread was doomed from the start.
>>
>>118018527
He didn't do anything that could be considered detrimental to society until his fight with Shirou.
He was helping him save Sakura and fucked up a 500 yo evil worm magus.
Not to mention how much he helped Shirou with his internal conflict and doubts.
>>
Why is fateshit such edgy chuuni garbage?
>>
>>118018662
>He didn't do anything that could be considered detrimental to society until his fight with Shirou.
Tell that to the orphans.
>>
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>>118012525
>>
>>118018692
Well, I was talking about HF.
Of course he did fucked up shit before that. He does a lot of fucked up shit in Zero.
>>
>>118018662
I just wonder whether you actualy read the VN
>>
>>118018779
Even in HF he used orphans to supply Gil with mana. It's just that it's not being mentioned.
>>
>>118012367
But the Church isn't evil at all. Kotomine could be, depending on your definition, but the Church is fine. No organization with Ciel in it could have any fault of any kind.
>>
>>118018838
I wonder how his sucessor in HF felt when he got to the church and found a basement filled with orphans mana batteries.
>>
>>118018886
The Church is full of dickwads, but compared to the Mage's Association they're still the lesser evil.
>>
>>118018922
How evil is Zelretch, really?
>>
>>118018898
Aroused
>>
>>118018922
The Mage's Association is shit.

>hey guys, lets work together to reach the Root and improve our magic
>except for the part where we put a Seal Designation on anyone who is too close to the Root or has advanced too much on his magic research
>>
>>118018898
Depends on if they were little boys or not.
>>
>>118019040
They looked like that one mummy fetus that some old woman had inside of her for 72 years.
>>
>>118019097
Then probably just irritated at the cleanup.
>>
>>118018946
Magicians in general are evil from humanity's perspective. Not magi, I mean like True Magicians.

See, the five tasks left for humanity (Second-Sixth Magics) are "necessary" for humanity to improve and live and all that, and would make us better off and shit. The Third Magic (excluding the Sixth) is the most beneficial for humanity, while the Fifth is the most dangerous, but even the Fifth is still needed.

Eventually, way into the future, science will be able to replicate those and they'll stop being Magics, like what's happened with everything else, but that won't be for a while.

Magicians are enemies of the World because they manipulate Akasha.

They're enemies of humanity because they could literally at any point share their Magic with humanity and popularize it to make people better off. They don't want to though, because then they lose their special-ness, then their Magic isn't Magic anymore and they stop mattering.

It's not like magecraft where revealing it kills the Mystery and makes it die, it's just selfishness.

tl;dr: True Magicians are evil monopolizers who want to stay special snowflakes at the cost of fucking over humanity.
>>
>>118019150
Zelretch doesn't really have to care, because he can fuck off into some other nice universe.
>>
>>118019029
>except for the part where we put a Seal Designation on anyone who is too close to the Root or has advanced too much on his magic research
That's wrong though

> Magi from all over the world gather and devote themselves day and night to the study of magic, while at the same time, are busily tripping over and being tripped over by other factions and competing for power and budget. The organization is anything but harmonious and has a complicated bizarre structure, but the magical research there is without doubt the leading edge.
>Separate from the normal ranks, color-based titles are given to those that have become special.
>The organization handling patents relating to magic is also the Clock Tower, and the current finances of the Tohsaka family is being by covered by the patent royalties that are being transferred to their account.
>The highest are red, blue, and yellow based on the three primary colors. After that, there are the combined colors of orange, purple, green, black, and so on. The further down you go, the less your rank is. Note that there is no rule about only one person for each color. The Association will, without any stinginess, award a color to you if you’re a magus of great stature or one with an unusual talent.
Sealing Designations are actualy pretty rare.
>>
>>118019150
>because they could literally at any point share their Magic with humanity
That's wrong though.
If it would be replicable it wouldn't be true Magic
>>
>>118019150
I thought that your magic missing its mistery made it shit.
Like, a magic that no one can understand and reproduce but you would be uber OP and broken, but the moment you explain how it works and the mistery is lost it would become shit.
>>
>>118019193
Pretty much. Zel doesn't really have to give a fuck what happens to "this" humanity.

Aoko's worse though considering the way she uses the Fifth literally speeds up the heat death of the universe.

>>118019029
Their main purpose is just to keep magecraft hidden so it keeps existing. If Magecraft is revealed, its mystery is killed, and magecraft will cease to be.
>>
>>118019291
That's magecraft. True Magic is just a complete and total monopoly. We can't get off the time axis until Zel decides to share it with us, etc.

>>118019255
Someone hasn't played Mahoyo and doesn't know what True Magic is. That's just what the Magicians want you to think.
>>
>>118016008
If he was born like that, can you really call him evil?
>>
>>118019366
>Someone hasn't played Mahoyo
No I haven't but the complete material says this
>True Magic. This is a different mystery than magery. Magi call the events that are unachievable by magery and science in that age True Magic. If that event could be achieved by time and resources, then no matter the difficulty, that event will not be seen as True Magic.
>>
>>118019255
Not really, cause given time, even if the Magician doesn't help out, science will replicate them. Well, it's less like "science will replicate them" and more like "the magic will become mundane" in other words, people who aren't the wizard can use it, etc. Think of the magics as a milestone system. The Third is the most beneficial to humanity(Not counting the sixth) with the Fifth basically being something that's horrible for humanity. (If misused)

That being said, Magic will eventually become something that can be used by any human through the normal process of science. That's why magicians are enemies of humanity and the world; for the world, it is something unnatural. For humanity, you're being a total dick and stunting human progress by keeping your reality bending stuff all to yourself.
>>
>>118019428
Yes, because he is conscious of his evilness.
He is not Angra Manju, even if he can't feel it he understands about morals, ethics and good and evil.
He tried to change himsell, yes, but in the end he accepted his own nature and brought suffering to many people.
Kotomine is evil.
>>
>>118017001
Oh yes, because supporting cults is a good thing.
>>
>>118019504
Right, exactly. That's the set-up the Magicians frame.

You know that things besides the modern Magics were Magics before, right? Starting a fire for example used to be a True Magic. That guy who first figured out how to start a fire set up barriers to entry so other people wouldn't figure it out. That's why it was "True Magic".

Given time, the feat was eventually replicated/made mundane. That's the whole premise of True Magic.

Think of it in a different way. If it was really 100% impossible to do, how would the Magician do it in the first place? It's a feat they accomplished by touching [ ] and finding a way to access and thus manipulate it, right?
>>
>>118019528
That doesn't realy make sense in combination with >>118019504
But than again
>Nasu
>staying consistent
>making sense

True Magic. This is a different mystery than magery. Magi call the events that are unachievable by magery and science in that age True Magic. If that event could be achieved by time and resources, then no matter the difficulty, that event will not be seen as True Magic.
When the civilization of mankind was still young, all magery had been True Magic. But along with the advancement of science, the number of things that "could be done" by people had increased, and in exchange, True Magic diminished. The number of remaining "True Magics" in the modern era are extremely few, only 5. In "Fate/stay night", the achievement of one of these, the "Third True Magic", occupied the portion of the Grail War that could also be said to be its base.
>>
>>118019727
Well Nasu is basicaly saying
>True Magic can't be replicated
>Except when it can
>>
>>118019727
There's no contradiction. Reread what you posted.

>But along with the advancement of science, the number of things that "could be done" by people had increased, and in exchange, True Magic diminished.

See? As time goes on, what humans can do expands, and things that were Magic are made mundane. That could be helped along the process if the Magician who figured out how to touch [ ] was willing to help out, but even if they don't there's still going to be made mundane sooner or later.

Pretty much everything was a True Magic at some point or another, if you travel far enough back. Lighting a fire, for instance. It just becomes mundane with time.

If you're still not quite getting it, I can try to explain further or just boot up Mahoyo and skim through it for Aoko's infodump.
>>
If arthuria was summoned as assassin and fate stay assassin as saber who would win?

This is considering that saber can be summoned as something other than saber.
>>
>>118019911
I hate Nasu so much
>>
>>118019555
The only thing he understands are morals and ethics taught to him. That by no means makes them objectively correct.

He was someone who truly wanted to find his path in life, and when that path turned out to be one of inflicting suffering on others he accepted it. (With some help from Gil.) Does Gil, who is himself Chaotic Good, think Kirei is evil?

Kirei is Neutral/Chaotic Neutral if anything. He's basically a hedonist who was given the choice between living a martyr-esque life of misery due to being excluded by the morals of others, or doing the only thing that brings him joy. Of course he picked the latter.
>>
>>118019924
>That could be helped along the process if the Magician who figured out how to touch [ ] was willing to help out, but even if they don't there's still going to be made mundane sooner or later.
Wasn't there something about Shirou being completly unable to use the second magic with the gemsword while Rin could?
How does that fit in?
>>
>>118019924
Wait, shit, that makes sense
>>
>>118020014
And by choosing his own happiness he brought suffering to others.
I understand his conflict and feel bad for him, but it doesn't change the fact that he is evil.
>>
>>118012367
>japanese must conform to european beliefs
Church is evil. They tried to overthrow japanese government by trying a coup d'etat. It failed and they got banished.
>>
>>118020105
It's literally impossible not to inflict suffering on others. By your logic every single world leader, hell, every single person in history is evil.
>>
>>118020073
The gemsword isn't the actual Second Magic. It's just one Zel's Mystic Codes that uses a fragment of the Second Magic. The deal with that is you need "the blood of Schweinborg" to use the gem sword, like when he built the blueprints, part of the blueprints was "only X people can use this thing".

It's not related to how Magic works at all, it's just a feature of the gem sword that Zel built in.
>>
>>118020171
>The deal with that is you need "the blood of Schweinborg" to use the gem sword,
I'm pretty sure Rin isn't related to Zelretch
>>
So if the world doesn't run of prana like in 90% of the timelines we have seen in some far future humanity will be capable of doing shit like time-travelling or materializing their souls?
I don't want to live in that world.
>>
>>118020252
Tohsaka magic is an offshoot of his, the magic crest is probably what that means
>>
>>118020252
It's not literal, that's why I put it in quotes. That's how they refer to it, but it basically just means the families he gave the challenge to.
>>
>>118020165
One thing is causing suffering because there is no way to avoid it, other thing is to actively cause the suffering of others.
Kirei doesn't cause people to suffer as a side-efect of his actions, the goal of his actions is to cause other people suffering
>>
>>118020336
Nah, her crest has nothing to do with Zel. The Edelfelt that the Tohsaka family shacked up with post-3rd Grail War is the main source of their magecraft, because Edelfelt Conversion Attribute is what lets Rin use gems and stuff.

It's pretty much just a permission set for certain people that Zel wanted, probably because he didn't feel like if some nobody got ahold of the blueprints that they should be able to use the toy he made for someone else.
>>
>>118019150
>See, the five tasks left for humanity (Second-Sixth Magics) are "necessary" for humanity to improve and live and all that, and would make us better off and shit.

So, wait a minute.

Is it possible that the undiscovered Sixth Magic is the "Program No. 6" that Wallachia was trying to prevent?
>>
>>118020301
*run out of prana
>>
>>118017001
>you don't have to be a member of a cult
>but you need to respect cults and never say anything bad about them
too bad they can't use "faith healing" to cure stupidity like yours
>>
>>118020473
>The Edelfelt that the Tohsaka family shacked up with post-3rd Grail War is the main source of their magecraft, because Edelfelt Conversion Attribute is what lets Rin use gems and stuff.
Nope.
The Tohsaka were specialised on Conversion from the beginning.
They just made a very big leap after "stealing" one of the 2 Edelfelt crests
>>
>>118020165
Doing evil acts isn't the same as being an evil person
>>
>>118020432
*another thing
>>
>>118020481
Ah yes, that. That's never been 100% confirmed, but that's the main theory on the matter.

Prevent the Sixth, as it heralds the end of the world. Become the Sixth, and lead the world into a new golden age. That contradiction is where that theory gets weird.

The thing about the Sixth Magic is that it seems to just be the "miracle" of "if everyone was happy". In that sense, I guess the calculations of Atlas could see it as a dead end, but it still seems weird.
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