>There are people on this board, RIGHT NOW, still using ancient

> sculpting mechanic things

>>498051
This isn't 2008 anymore. Zbrush has plenty of good tools to sculpt hard surface. See >>497890

>>498049
>game spec art
>quads for deformation/animating
> try baking ngons
>try importing ngons into game engine

>>498052
Yes, now zbrush has modeling TOOLs that are NOT sculpting.
OP didn't say using zbrush as the only tool. He specifically mentions sculpting.
I can sculpt in Maya, 3D coat, modo etc. but they can't do what I mentioned above.

File: KILL ME.jpg (570KB, 2104x1292px) Image search: [Google]

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Please OP, explain how my decision to sculpt this hardsurface object in ZBrush was not a terrible idea. I can only imagine how much easier it would've been if I started in Max.

>>498052
> sculpt it like shit
> box model all over it again with drawing every quad
Thanks for proving my point.

>>498054
>I have never touched Zbrush: the post

Go look up on zremesher, the best retopo tool in the industry.

And no, you can sculpt hard surface, I'm not talking about zmodeler

It's actually very easy to sculpt hard surface, then polish using tools that pretty much retopo the surace automatically

http://zbrushtuts.com/2015/08/18/marco-plouffe-shared-w-a-s-p-tutorial-zbrush-keyshot-photoshop/

>>498058
While there is some very nice work in that thread, it all has that tell-tale blobby/low-res look. That's not clean hard-surface modeling, no matter how much detail you try to hide it under.

File: wasp_keysculpt_01.jpg (407KB, 1440x1800px) Image search: [Google]

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>>498059
Are we looking at the same model?

>>498060
>that CA

why

it was so close to perfect

>>498057
Does it retopo hard surface?

>>498049
>There are people on this board, RIGHT NOW, still using ancient modeling techniques such as sculpting instead of just using 3d scanners

>>498060
>ca
>dof

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>>498073
I'm new to ZBrush but It can retopo your average object pretty nicely, don't know about super complex stuff.

>>498049

>There are people on this board, RIGHT NOW, still making troll threads about whatever technique is the latest thing instead of actually creating something

enjoy your transpose tool

>>498073
It's unreliable unless the retopo is controlled with the help of new features in 4R7 like the masking.

File: 1420427640947.jpg (13KB, 196x178px) Image search: [Google]

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>>498084
fuck the transpose tool!

>>498079
fucking this, even tho keeping up with tool is kinda important

Isn't it always the preferred style to box model first even for the rough shape?
I can't imagine sculpting an entire person from the ground up.

>>498108
>I can't imagine sculpting an entire person from the ground up.
Yet you can imagine poly-modeling an entire person from the ground up? How can you think that's quicker than just sculpting it?

If you already have a decent base-mesh and are making a purely human character, then yeah, most people are just going to sculpt on a base-mesh. But for everything else that requires some actual creativity, you want the freedom to explore ideas and play with shapes, which sculpting first allows you to do at a much faster rate.

>>498052
you can box model in maya way faster.
when you box model you dont have to retopo shit.
>dont fucking mention zremesher
its fucking shit

>>498112
>explore ideas

Does nobody concept in 2d anymore? So much time wasted on moving polygons.

>>498119
>Does nobody concept in 2d anymore? So much time wasted on moving polygons.
Concepting in 2D only gets you the main ideas. Concepting in 3D is more about playing with the forms that the 2D concepts are vaguely representing. But also dynamesh does allow you to concept certain things much faster, especially considering you can rotate all around the model to see how these ideas work in a real setting.

Also, time is not wasted. I can throw down a bunch of forms within seconds that would take you several minutes to draw. And as I said, I'll be able to look at those forms from any angle, not needing to redraw it. But 2D concepting is still the best way to get the main idea and feel of the character down.

>>498115
>when you box model you dont have to retopo shit.
Because box modeling is the "retopo" phase. You're talking about the same thing, the only difference is you're taking the long route. Before it used to be: Box Model>Sculpt>Bake.
But now it's: Sculpt>Retopo>Bake.

This newer workflow is faster, because doing your box-modeling on top of an already done model takes mere minutes. And you get the added benefit of having complete freedom during the sculpting/detailing phase to alter the design at any point. Get with the times.

>>498124
>>498115

Also, lets not forget that usually you'd have to make two base meshes if you're going the basemesh first route. One that was game-ready, and another that would subdivide well and support sculpting nicely, as the game-ready mesh rarely has topology good enough for that, unless it's for a AAA game like Uncharted.

But we no longer need to do that thanks to dynamesh and sculpting first.

File: greyscale_concepts_final.jpg (2MB, 1308x1440px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1308x1440px

>>498119
>So much time wasted on moving polygons.

Concepts just like this can be completed in under an hour. Yes, this particular sculpt might look like shit, but that's besides the point.

>>498124
only non retard in this thread

except sometimes you're really good at box modeling since you've been doing to for years and you can skip the sculpting bit entirely or you're making shit that sculpting doesn't lend itself well to like a keyboard, a pair of pliers, a detailed view of some electrical contraption, a motorcycle, a house, a nuclear reactor core... etc. etc. etc.

not everyone makes characters

blockout with simple primitaves in maya, simple shape and form sculpt in zbrush, retopo in maya, detail in zbrush

>>498128
That is retarded, sorry. Why would you do the blockout with polymodeling? Have you never touched zSpheres or Dynamesh?

>>498127
Well yeah, that should go without saying, if you're doing some purely hard-surface stuff, then sculpting is unlikely to be the answer, unless you're trying to concept some interesting hard-surface forms.

>>498049
>still using ancient modeling techniques such as box modeling instead of just sculpting.
You still use box modeling, Hard Surface modeling for example in Maya.

Boxing out your model in Maya or Max. I.E getting dem shapes then using GoZ to export it to ZBrush to begin sculpting.

Creating ultra low poly models.

>>498126
And you can shit out basic concepts like that in 2d in 10 minutes. Then you make 5 more and actually develop the idea while trying new approaches and go with the final one.

So... reading this whole thread got me lot of confusion.
Is box modeling still used? Or should I say fuck everything and praise zBrush like next gen kiddos?

>>498127
>>498127
Zbrush is used for hard surface too. It's become easier and faster than traditional modeling

>>498143
Box modelling is still a good thing to understand.

>>498143
Learn both. Moving veritces around and knowing how edges flow is still important. Sculpting is faster, more fun and lets you forget about technical stuff to focus only in your art. Zbrush is only a sculpting program so you still need other packages

>>498077
At that density, the entire character can only be used for rendering.
If you want something game spec, guess what? You have to retopo again with much less density, aka manually.

>>498108
If you can, it's faster to sculpt the entire person, then retopo. Things like fingers and toes are a bitch though.
The emphasis is that the final sculpt will be retopologized if it's being used in a game or movie, unless it's a "concept sculpt" like >>498126


>>498119
3D artists are kinda know as not being good 2d artists. pushing polies in 3D is much faster, and gives them variations much faster than 2d. They can then choose which one they want to spend time one and finalize with a much better idea of how the final version will look.
-Then it's easier/faster to just keep tweaking the rough start, retopologizing where needed etc.

>>498126
It's unimpressive. Prolly no more than 20mins was spent actually sculpting"inflate brush. The painting is actually more impressive. The last 20mins were prolly spent in PS assembling the presentation.

>>498130
>Why would you do the blockout with polymodeling?
Was zbrush 3 your first zb or something?
Before zhpheres and dnamesh you start with a base mesh to ensure polies were even for best subdivision.

>>498143
Pure ZB will get you so far.
From a technical point of view, box modeling and moving verts, manually removing ngons, figuring out what's wrong will help you be more knowledgeable about what's going on under Zbrush's hood, and any sculpting tool I guess.

>>498136
Doing the "basic concepts" in 3D is MUUUUCH faster. That pic is not a "basic concept" though. That's something more time was spent on to be showed to a studio, supervisor, client, or portfolio piece etc.

>>498149
>If you want something game spec, guess what? You have to retopo again with much less density, aka manually.
Guess what? It still takes less time this way. The artist was able to concept out some of their design in 3D space, and get all their fine details down too. Afterwards, a quick retopo, a bake and you're done. It's a lot easier to figure out how to poly-model those shapes once you already have them sculpted out. And tools like Quad draw in Maya or Topogun make it take no time at all to retopo.

>Things like fingers and toes are a bitch though.
Sculpt one separate, duplicate a bunch, minor adjustments, dynamesh. They're really not difficult once you've done a few! Though tbh, it's useless to keep resculpting the major forms, one should have some pre-made fingers to basically "kitbash" with their organic models and then adjust the shape from there.

>Was zbrush 3 your first zb or something?
I think you misread my comment... I was advocating against using polymodeling to do the initial blockout, because we have dynamesh and zSphere. I literally even mentioned those things.

>>498143
Box modeling, or more specifically "poly modeling", is still important, as you will use the knowledge when doing retopo, or when doing some purely hard-surface work that doesn't need any concepting done on it, like a mug, a real life car and things like that.

>>498052
>make a bait thread
>get defensive after one post.

Who taught you to troll?

>>498144
Are you seriously suggesting that you would model a keyboard in ZBrush rather than doing it in Modo or something?

>>498149
>At that density, the entire character can only be used for rendering.
>If you want something game spec, guess what? You have to retopo again with much less density, aka manually.

There's an option to zRemesh with less polygons. And who here was talking about game-ready meshes?

Anyway, at some point retopo tools will become so smart you won't even need to look at the wireframe anymore.

File: michael-jensen-01nvidia-render-002.jpg (233KB, 1338x1000px) Image search: [Google]

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>>498165
Obviously squarish things like keyboards, doors, etc are still faster to make using traditional poly modeling. But once you get into sci-fi or mechanical looking hard surface things are much easier with ZBrush.

>>498169
>implying computers will kill human eye and experience

>>498172
They've been killing human skills for decades. What makes you think an algorithm can't do a better job at retopoing than a person? In fact, most retopology plug-ins are already somewhat automated, and Zremesher is pretty much a one click solution.