Occultism & Magick: Library Update 56

>>19577532
Vajrayana soon.

>>19577590
Or...maybe not?
May be on the old HD.

>>19577532
Aww yeah, first real update in a long time.

Why was Enlil such a dick compared to his fellow anunnaki?

>>19577888
>1:11 No.19577888
not bad

>>19577888
Someone has to be.

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>>19577532
How to join your Slack group senpai?

>>19578127

Conform, have no mind or will of your own, and kiss ass.

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>>19578198
I mean besides that because I already do that.

>>19577532
>Unlocked books Manuscripts of learned magic in the medieval libraries of Central Europe
>Magical Manuscripts in Early Modern Europe The Clandestine Trade In Illegal Book Collections
Ooh!

>>19578198
Someone seems awfully bitter.

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>>19577888
>Why was Enlil such a dick compared to his fellow anunnaki?

What would you have done differently under similar circumstance?

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Im gonna post dis sheit here k

Is there any evidence runes were used for magick? Or are they just snownigger scribbles?

>>19578883
Chaos sigils were a part of icelandic magic. Check the Galdrabok or something similarly named that goes into historical use of runes in sygaldry. Or just the world sigaldry.

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Books on Gems, Stones, Crystals, Grids, and Spells

The Book of Crystal Spells: Magical Uses for Stones, Crystals, Minerals ... and Even Sand by Ember Grant

The Second Book of Crystal Spells: More Magical Uses for Stones, Crystals, Minerals... and Even Salt by Ember Grant

The Pocket Book of Stones by Robert Simmons

Cunningham's Encyclopedia of Crystal, Gem, & Metal Magic by Scott Cunningham

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wrobn91f9jvyc1b/AABnUUMeS1Y-FUsYBM82vjJXa?dl=0

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Bump.

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Can someone explain to me without emotion why this man gets so much irrational hate?

>>19578993
Probably because his chairs to big makes him look like a little kid.

>>19578993
White guys going native is always pretty cringy.

>>19577532
Ape, in your Saivism folder the file Self-Realization-in-Kashmir-Shaivism--The-Oral-Teachings-of-Swami-Lakshmanjoo-by-Lakshman-John-Hughes has only one page. Any chance you can upload the full pdf?

>>19579002
He looks cute dude. You should listen to the message, not obsess over his stature like an immature teenager.

>>19579020
What's his message? Join the cult to make him rich in exchange for being a bhaki zombie?

>>19579030
>advaita ganga-smoker calling anyone a zombie
top kek.

>>19579042
I'll eat your mother's corpse krshcuck.

>>19578993
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgc4CvwjyOE

>>19579123
Dude, I'm way beyond that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4osChDnPyQ

What's /omg's take on NAP (new avatar power)?

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#neverforget

What are you listening to /omg/?
Found some cool ambient stuff that might be to your guys tastes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qmNBqvtdjY

I just wanna say you're my favourite general on the site <3

>>19579553
Nice, I love ambient
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TkLhtXM0go

Yesterday I chewed some mugwort, then threw my athame off a cliff and asked for a vision of God and/or Goddess, essentially sacrificing an item of power for wisdom of the unknown.

So last night I had a dream in which there are three deities; an elder god, a younger goddess, and a third deity that is neither male nor female. I felt eir essence enter me, and then I had some sort of initiation rite with a priest of the god.

Yeah so I think I'm supposed to be the priestess of this new deity whose name I don't even know. Any advice? I didn't ask for this, but then, does anyone ever?

>>19579178

Works if you truly believe, doesn't if you don't -- Same as literally all other magic.

>>19577532
do sigles still hold power if drawn into the background of a drawing?

>>19579637
How vivid was this dream? Can you describe the deities in more detail?

>>19579008
>2017
>being this racist

>>19580518
What kind of fool doesn't?

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Could you please explain to me, in your own words, what magick means and the occult means?
Also why do you study these topics?

>Genuinely curious desu, have dabbled on and off over the years but I'm unsure if my comprehension was ever actually correct.

Hey /omg/

Apologies in advance but I'm gonna hit you with a newbie question because I'm having trouble finding an answer

I know the LBRP banishes "elemental" influences and the BRH is for "plantary/zodiac" influences.

My question is what does this mean? Can someone give me an example of these elemental and planetary influences?

>>19579008
>mixed peoples can't exist in my little sheltered shoebox world

>>19578993
Vishnuites and krshnites are an apocalyptical branch of the vedic religion, people usually doesnt like that.
Same.with christianity, really.

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>>19580571

Magic:
Usage of ones will to re-shape reality to match ones desired state.

Occult:
Any knowledge that is not commonly known (e.g. You can't ask any random passerby on the street and receive a complete or at least cursory answer)

>>19579008
I noticed there's usually an out-of-place white disciple in these pictures, and of others.

Though, I saw an Indian Greek Orthodox priest in full regalia, last week.

>>19580606
>>19580514
He's absolutely right, though. It is cringey and it's usually the same type of white guy in these Hindu and Buddhist settings.

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Who should I pray to or what should I do if I want to overcome fear and anxiety, in a long-term, transformational way? I want to stop feeling them as frequently and in response to as many things.

If I could flip a switch and literally fear nothing, I'd do it. I know that'd be dangerous in certain situations, but for 99% of modern life it would be fine.

I already meditate and do exercises based on cognitive-behavioral therapy, and those have helped me to be able to calm down and move forward with doing what needs doing. But I still seem to feel anxious about a lot of things that most people aren't as bothered by.

In particular, I have a fear of abandonment, and a fear that all the people I like and respect secretly look down on me. Previous experiences that I'd rather not go into here have made it hard for me to trust others, and so in order to not be a needy piece of shit, I'm left wrestling with my own demons damn near constantly.

Can't do therapy right at the moment for financial reasons but I intend to resume that as well.

Anyway, any recommended reading and/or activity to fix this?

>>19580737

Harmonia.

>>19580742
It's funny that you say that because I legit prayed to Eris/Discordia when I was at my lowest point and she got me this far, and I've been reading a lot of Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion cycle where he writes about heroes restoring balance between order and chaos.

Thanks, anon.

>>19580728
>It is cringey and it's usually the same type of white guy

Or maybe you just have an idea of white people and can't tolerate seeing them like that because your prejudices.

Thanks OP and all who put together the Mega library

Downloaded a shitload of Voodoo and hoodoo stuff

pleb here

i want to meditate for a bit for the first time, but i am having troubles doing it alone
can you give me rec me some proven/tested videos of audio recordings that will guide me through it until i learn how to do it myself?

>>19581195
You could just read the basic yoga manuals of the Indic literature; Hatha Yoga, Shiva Samhita, and Raja Yoga.

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>>19580585
>I know the LBRP banishes "elemental" influences and the BRH is for "plantary/zodiac" influences.

No, it doesn't.

What it does it, it invokes their "spirit" sub-element through the Archangels and the names of God, in order to facilitate further work/ establish balance/ communication with the Divine.

The idea that it's a banishing ritual is a blind, as when you analyze its mechanics you'll find that it's little more than an invocation of a number of forces.

>>19580737
>Who should I pray to or what should I do if I want to overcome fear and anxiety, in a long-term, transformational way?

See a therapist. Also write a lot. Note all of your thoughts for 20-30 minutes every day. Order them. Own them. Analyze them. Break down where your issues are. Find solutions. Use your head.

>I want to stop feeling them as frequently and in response to as many things.

Well, get stronger.

>If I could flip a switch and literally fear nothing, I'd do it. I know that'd be dangerous in certain situations, but for 99% of modern life it would be fine.

No, you wouldn't. What you're asking for is cocaine. Unless you're really good at controlling yourself, you'd end up spending all of your money on bullshit.

>I already meditate and do exercises based on cognitive-behavioral therapy, and those have helped me to be able to calm down and move forward with doing what needs doing. But I still seem to feel anxious about a lot of things that most people aren't as bothered by.

Psychotherapy. Actual. None of this magic bollocks.

>In particular, I have a fear of abandonment, and a fear that all the people I like and respect secretly look down on me.

Low self-esteem. You can do without other people. You can grow your connections with them. You can also just stay as you are, without trusting that you're seeing their true faces.

At the end of the day, the problem is you, and the solution is understanding, commitment, and a strong idea of what you want from your relationships with people.

>Previous experiences that I'd rather not go into here have made it hard for me to trust others, and so in order to not be a needy piece of shit, I'm left wrestling with my own demons damn near constantly.

Meh. Give people reasons to respect you.

>Can't do therapy right at the moment for financial reasons but I intend to resume that as well.

Fix your god damn finances first. Your body and mind are the most important thing. TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF GOD DAMMIT.

>>19579042
>dvaita guru-cock-smoker calling anyone anything
bottom kek

>>19581258
>No, it doesn't.

In practical terms, yes, it does.

>>19581401
In practical terms, while the outcome is good for work (space filled with spirit vs. being devoid of any element), the actual mechanism is quite specific, and leads to a very specific outcome.

To claim that the LBRP is a banishing ritual is equivalent to saying that oaths are what makes an adept, rather than attainment.

>>19581310
>There is no known force in the universe to stop the Krsnite from being triggered by Agamic worship
>As long as Advaitic or Agamic practitioners exist on this board, the Advaitics with trigger the Eternal Vaishnav

>>19581423
>To claim that the LBRP is a banishing ritual is equivalent to saying that oaths are what makes an adept, rather than attainment.

But you aren't even into practical magic, are you?

>>19581432
When the Kalki comes, your atheistic Advaita cult will cease to exist. There is still time to reform your ways, anon ;)

>>19581438

>IQ below the Mariana Trench

Words matter. Learn their meaning. Study them. Stop being a shit.

>>19581439

After 15 years of practice, I found purpose elsewhere.

>>19581442
>dispensationalism
May as well just call yourself a Darbyist and get it over with brodude.

>>19581444
>After 15 years of practice, I found purpose elsewhere.

Is that a, "yes"?

>>19581458

That's an "I have more experience than most well-respected ceremonialists - whether I currently practice or not has no bearing on the validity of what I say".

>>19581457
Whatever. All that matters is that you'll be dead and I wont. Have fun being reincarnated cocksucker

>>19581467

I doubt you have more experience than me and whether you are capable of addressing the matter in practical terms is precisely the point,

>>19581484
What do you mean by practical, exactly?

Do you mean to ask whether "the Archangels/ Archons appear" and what their domains are, or are you asking whether it makes a difference in some particular context?

Or are we still talking about whether the LBRP is a banishing ritual?

Because sure, I'll concede that for most applications, whether it's a true banishing or invocation doesn't matter. Yet, when you get down with Enochian, and consider the validity of the practice from a Christian/ Jewish standpoint, it makes *all* the difference, particularly in light of the First Key.

>/omg/ - Metaphysicial Shitposts
It's a step in the right direction.

>>19581458
Bless you for talking shit to him about this I literally started typing out a thing about what a hardline mundane self help guru wanna be surgo is and got called away at work

>>19581467
I didn't know it was possible to roll my eyes this hard

>>19581467
>>19581467
>no bearing
Then why did you bring it up?
If you'd have just made your argument without the "I'm a lvl 15 wizard guis" spiel this chain of shitposts wouldn't have had to happen.

>>19581986
>Then why did you bring it up?

Because this guy asked.

>>19581439
>>19581458

>>19581991
You could have just said something vague like "not anymore".

>>19582005
Which is what I said... here.

>>19581444

>>19582009
>after 15 years of practice
Do you see where I'm going with this at all?

Thoughts on Meher Baba?

>>19582024
I do, and I don't understand why it matters.

If you have an argument that would somehow contradict the idea that the LBRP is specifically an invocation ritual, I'm more than happy to hear it.

So far, I've met nobody who would be able to find an actual reason for it to create a void.

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>>19577532
Help me out, guys. I needed some help with my resits and because plenty of them were oral and I was told that I had affinity with mercury, I tried to invoke its power for luck and eloquence. I got my results yesterday and they were really, really good. I'm a tad spooked now. Should I be doing some follow-up stuff now?

>>19582121
Depending on the power(s) involved, some kind of 'thanks' might not be required, but at the least it's polite.

What kind of magick would you guys recommend for a complete newbie to start with?

>>19582149

None. Start with studying, yoga/qigong, a healthy diet, and exercise. Read Secret Teachings of All Ages and find what gets your dick hard, then read more on the subject of what got your dick hard.

>>19582149
This anon makes a good point: >>19582157 , but if you're real keen on getting strait to the spellworks, it's not a bad idea to stick to harmless little cantrips like the Quarter Finding Spell. Just little stuff that doesn't do anything big or complicated that could fuck stuff up.

>>19582166
where do i research this spell?

>>19582181
I don't know of a source off the top of my head, but basically,
>vividly and clearly visualize yourself seeing a quarter on the ground and reaching down and picking it up, but only see the quarter, not any ground details
>do that over and over and over
>(this step is optional but it is polite) after you've found your quarter IRL, drop 3 quarters on the ground in random places where someone will find them
It's just an exercise in basic manifestation will an absurdly low probability of causing any harm even if it goes completely haywire.

>>19582198
am i seein my self from a third or first person view?

Why /omg/ shills so hard on psychotherapy?
Is because Regardie influence or there is a legit reason?

>>19582204
I personally use a first person perspective for that kind of thing, so that's what I'd suggest, but honestly i'm not sure if a third person perspective would be any worse or better.
Let me know if you find a difference.

>>19582213
would astral projection also be a good thing to try out?

>>19582215
That might not exactly be a beginner level thing, but at the same time, about the worse outcome would be it doesn't work, so it probably wouldn't hurt to try.
This is all just my opinion, thought. There's nothing wrong with getting multiple perspectives on an issue. Knowledge is power, after all.

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>>19582149
None. Study for at least a few months or even a year. Never rush into something like this without careful attention and knowledge.

After that, I would recommend Goetic evocation, as it is fairly basic. Never evoke a spirit without purpose though.

>>19582207
It's the fastest, easiest, most accessible and least obscure way of starting on the path of personal integration.

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>>19581467
>whether I currently practice or not has no bearing on the validity of what I say

>>19582056
It's not about the archangels it's about the nature of the drawn pentagram. By banishing Earth in the four quarters you create a space more attuned to subtler forms which are usually drowned out by material existence, both in the physical proximity and more importantly in the mind of the practitioner. You'd be hard pressed to find a ritual structure in the classical western pantheon that doesn't start out with some sort of authority conferring invocation so it sort of seems like you're being really pedantic and focusing on the wrong thing.
>>19582031
He has a lot of value to say as long as you don't join his cult

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the old enclosure is one of very few realistic pivot points for largely false eastern mysticism. i think the trend against river systems disseminates false information over time.

>>19582260
>suggesting evocations as babby's first practical working
Anon, what? Unless the study you mention involves practical exercises to hone mind and acquire degree of spiritual authority, suggesting newbie to try evocation on theoretical knowledge alone will likely lead them nowhere and with some slight possibility fuck them over.

>>19582207
Most of the weird stuff you'll experience in practice you'll have to interpret through your own, subjective perception of things. Working magic in general involves good awareness and understanding of yourself, your thoughts, emotions etc so you can also notice how they change, what may be wrong and so on.
It's good to know yourself before you'll attempt changing yourself and world around you, otherwise you may not be sure of direction you take and reasons, which may make put quite a dampen on your development and even make it a waste of time you'll have to retry from scratch.

>>19582331
>It's not about the archangels it's about the nature of the drawn pentagram. By banishing Earth in the four quarters you create a space more attuned to subtler forms which are usually drowned out by material existence, both in the physical proximity and more importantly in the mind of the practitioner.


1. The banishing pentagram of Earth is literally the exact same form as what the invoking pentagram of Spirit would be if we forego the foolishness of the Active/ Passive model.
2. The effects you described are literally those of invoking spirit.
3. You can't conceivably banish Earth without forfeiting your material form (i.e. the body, i.e. yourself). In short: you can't banish Earth as long as you exist with a physical body (whether existence without one is possible is a topic for another time). Period.
4. You're retarded.

I've come to have some Belladonna ointment, how can I put it to good use?

>>19582441
That's a kind of thing where knowing concentration is very, very important. Did... did whatever you got it from happen to mention it's concentration? A very concentration solution could be dangerous to handle.

>>19582376
>>19582376
>Unless the study you mention involves practical exercises to hone mind and acquire degree of spiritual authority

Read the first part again.

>>19582441
>Belladonna ointment
put a wick in it and light it while you take a bath

>>19582395
>Banishing Earth is invoking Spirit

more or less yeah, although intention matters and that's the difference that the Active and Passive model makes

>You can't conceivably banish Earth without forfeiting your material form

That's a pretty dense and reductionist interpretation of what an elemental ritual is. When you banish Earth you aren't just banishing Earth as an element you are essentially banishing all the elements in their densest forms (See Sepher Yetzirah and the mother letters)

>You're retarded.

We could have a technical discussion on magical operations without stooping to ad hominems, but sense we are on the subject your hyper literal understanding of metaphysical reality is kind of reminiscent of someone with unironic actual autism. I have to wonder if all the strong inflammatory opinions you have would actually hold up if you continued to have a magical practice

>>19582470
That still doesn't specifically underlines importance of some practical skills before dealing with evocation, as "attention and knowledge" very well may be interpreted as being good to go just when one's careful and has enough theoretical knowledge.

>>19582471
And probably deeply inhale the smoke, too?

>>19582474
>stooping to ad hominems
>>like you're being really pedantic and focusing on the wrong thing.

>>19582441
>Belladonna
Really poisonous.

>>19582479
>That still doesn't specifically underlines importance of some practical skills before dealing with evocation
I've honestly forgotten what it's like to be an ignorant beginner at this point, so I'm not surprised I would forget to mention certain things, like meditation. But those should come naturally with study.

>as "attention and knowledge" very well may be interpreted as being good to go just when one's careful and has enough theoretical knowledge.
Unless the individual in question is an absolute dullard, I would assume he's capable of understanding that both careful attention in study and attaining knowledge before any sort of magickal working is of utmost importance.

If not, perhaps he should not be involved in magick or the occult at all.

>>19582395
Why are you so basic
>>19582474
>dense and reductionist
^my biggest problem with that surgo

Hey y'all.

Not pagan or magick-y myself, but I know a fair number of people who are "spiritual" or Wiccan or believe in tarot and other witchcraft.

However, most of the ones I know tend to be very new-agey and anti-reason. I'm not saying everything can be explained by science, but it's a huge turn off when these people are so gullible they believe every little made up thing someone tells them, and don't even consider researching its veracity for themselves. Tbh they usually come across as permanently drunk.

Why is this? I understand the premises of some schools of magick: the Crowley edgelords, the traditional pagans who are trying to preserve historical beliefs, the Kabbalists and sigilists who are fascinated by the written word, and in general those interested in esoteric beliefs and understandings, even those agnostics who use paganism as a ritual replacement for more traditional religion. But those who believe they are magic and that every fortune teller speaks the truth, with no interest in knowing or understanding everything about what magic even means, or expanding their minds with it, baffle me.

Have any of you encountered these? I have several such people in my family, and come across them regularly at uni. Why do they do this?

>>19582595
>anti-reason. I'm not saying everything can be explained by science, but

Go away.

>>19582595
1) People are retarded. Think of how drooling fucktarded the average person is. Half of people are even more cripplingly moronic than that.

2) Learning is hard work. Most people don't even begin to care about fixing it, hence why graduation rates here hover around 1/5, and that's only for a bachelors.

>>19582608
>1) People are retarded. Think of how drooling fucktarded the average person is. Half of people are even more cripplingly moronic than that.

Really? A George Carlin quote?

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>>19582511
That's fair but this debate is gonna remain pedantic unless someone busts out John Dee's notes and we start talking about things like why the SIRP doesn't include the GD Dominus Liminus signs and why the elemental attributions are what they are. I wish Satyr would pipe up because he has a wealth of Enochian knowledge he seems loathe to share for probably legitimate reasons.

>>19582575
I suspect that understanding calcifies when praxis ends. Have a fluid understanding is pretty necessary for having a working magical practice at all. I don't have any ill will towards Surgo but if you're gonna make inflammatory statements you should expect them to be challenged.
>>19582595
>why do people fall for comforting bullshit
it's easier and more comfortable to be a follower and to allow the people you view as authorities to do your thinking for you

>>19581500
Funny I was just reading your blog post where you got your mind blown by the idea that lbrp is an invocation ha

>>19582621
>I suspect that understanding calcifies when praxis ends.

Woof, this is real true.

>>19582597
>implying science can explain all
>implying reason is not limited

>>19582632
>>19582597
Fellas, fellas, there's no conflict here.
Magic and science are the same thing, just focused on different parts of existence.
Let us not forget that the scientific method itself arose from Hermeticism.

>>19582619
>Really? A George Carlin quote?
I mean, you asked why so many people are fuckin' stupid, and I replied that about half of the people you meet on a daily basis have an IQ lower than 100. Not sure why it's controversial.

>>19582474
>>19582331
>>19581439
Stop pretending that your useless ritual does anything beyond roleplaying. No, it doesn't banish Earth. I can only imagine what some Sadhu would think if he saw you waving your hands around like a retard.

I bet that your ritual area is filled with nasty shit, you're just too spiritually underdeveloped to see it.

>>19582652
Are you sure that the demographic of /omg/ is much better?

>>19582661
>Sadhu
Bad example, m8.

>>19582661
>>19582669
Uh, don't Sadhus have rituals too?

>>19582678
Rituals are fine. Your perverse hebrew garbage is the problem.

>>19582665
I'm certain it's the same, hence why I tell so many people to fuck off/refuse to reply to dumbshit posters.

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>>19582681
>>>/pol/

>>19582474
>the difference that the Active and Passive model makes

Why don't we have active and passive subdivisions in the other elements, then?

It makes little sense to divide the most import... oh wait, Spirit is already divided into Fire, Water, Air and Earth.

What are you playing at, here?

The goal is integration and balance, not any bizarre notion of 'banishment'.

>That's a pretty dense and reductionist interpretation of what an elemental ritual is. When you banish Earth you aren't just banishing Earth as an element you are essentially banishing all the elements in their densest forms (See Sepher Yetzirah and the mother letters)

Yeah, except the world doesn't spontaneously disappear around you.

This is the big problem that I have with most people who claim to practice magic. They seem to just take what they like (the lore, stories, personal mythology) and separate it out from the world as if it's not entirely based in nature, as if it's not observable and in many ways, open to interaction.

>but sense we are on the subject your hyper literal understanding of metaphysical reality is kind of reminiscent of someone with unironic actual autism.

Meh?

I'm not interested in the myths and stories. Either it works, or it doesn't. The way it works is very clear when you actually read the literature and study the ritual in practice.

>I have to wonder if all the strong inflammatory opinions you have would actually hold up if you continued to have a magical practice

They do.

The reasons I switched my focus is because at the end of the day, mysticism doesn't get you happiness. All it does is waste your time, when there's easier ways to accomplish your goals.

And if you seek truth... you're out of luck, you won't find any. All that awaits is demons and the sad realization that people are intrinsically both malevolent and beneficent, at a precarious balance.

>>19582681
So Hebrews are bad but random Indians are fine as long as they suck Nazi dick?

Can you honestly fuck off forever with your shitty pseudo messianic Vaishnavist nonsense?

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>>19582681
>your
I don't have a dog in this race one way or the other.
I'm not promoting any single system, just making the point that ritual is common to the vast majority of practices.

>>19582697
Shaula, you're an old hag who has used up whatever potential she had.

Why don't you kill yourself? You'll be young again tomorrow in a fresh body.

>>19582311
Which modality? Research suggests they all work, but research also suggests that the research is biased.

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>>19582714
>she
Man you guys and your powers of prediction, holy shit.

>>19582597
Nope. I'm on this board because I am curious about the supernatural and things that can't be understood by human reason. I was brought up with a pretty rationalistic mindset but the last few years have gotten me wondering about the unknown.

>>19582608
So basically you're saying that magick is just as likely to draw in idiots as anything else. True true. For all the argument y'all on /x/ seem more sane than people out there, since I haven't met a single interesting one in real life.

As far as your second point, I'm with you 100%. I'm a senior and have only met half a dozen people at uni who actually cared about learning something and doing something interesting with their lives.

>>19582619 wasn't me.

>>19582632
Sorry if that came across as condescending. Was just trying to indicate my more agnostic position, not be a fedora.

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eggs are somehow equivocal to horns, here? this one is very simple.

>>19582726
Take your word salad to another thread mate.

>>19582632
>>19582652
I am not the original anon he was replying to.

>>19582720
The point still stands. It/xe/whatever can be a young, youthful person tomorrow if it wanted to.

>>19582686
The poll placed the average IQ on /x/ around 82, but I don't think any of us took part. Or we all did and the mean minus half this thread is like 75.

>>19582575
>Why are you so basic

Because when you get down to it, it's only the basics that actually survive any serious scrutiny.

>>19582621
>I suspect that understanding calcifies when praxis ends.

That depends entirely on what scope 'praxis' has. E.g. I have pretty much given up ritual, however I still pursue the Work through other means.

>Have a fluid understanding is pretty necessary for having a working magical practice at all.

I'd tend to disagree. One can easily get a working magical practice without understanding one bit. In some contexts, not understanding can take one significantly further than understanding, due to the liminal states not knowing can facilitate.

>I don't have any ill will towards Surgo but if you're gonna make inflammatory statements you should expect them to be challenged.

That's a large part of the reason why I argue all the time.

The more I get my ideas challenged, the quicker I get to sort my thoughts out, and the faster I become less wrong.

>>19582631
Yeah, it was like 2012-2013 when I was writing that, IIRC. Good times.

>>19582718
Any modality, as long as it works on the cause, and not the symptom.

I worked as a hypnotherapist for a longer while; and while hypnosis can be used as a catalyst, few people know how to actually run a therapeutic process properly.

Focus on something actionable - CBT is a good bet, as is parts therapy (ego-state).

>>19582731
Hey, how old are you?

>>19582741
Forgive me for doubting a representative sample or solid methodology from a halfass self report survey in the spoopy gost subreddit of a Bhutanese carpet dying BBS.

>>19582736
>>>/out/

>>19582681
Dude, the foundations of wester tradition are purely mediterranean. The asian influence comes through Greece and other mediterranean peoples, at least in the origin of the so called western tradition. If you learn the history of the mediterraneans you will understand many things about the western tradition too. You know, greeks, phoenicians, romans, egyptians... Alexandria and shit. There is also a reason why the "pagan" stuff becomes obscure, while the semitic influences keeps being clear, christism.

>>19582761
>the foundations of wester tradition are purely mediterranean
I guess that's why I can find Mandaean entities in Agrippa, because it's just Mediterranean.

>>19582761
You type like a nigger. No offense.

Why take a big, yiddish dump in something beautiful? That's why this filthy, dirty hebrew shit has to disappear from occultism.

>>19581500

No, I mean "practical" in the sense of there are such things as elementals and the magician may order them about in useful ways. The LRP is useful in that context. That it's much more is neither here nor there.

>>19582722
Why is it so often that those who advocate "reason" (fedora tippers), often like a religious preaching, are the most unreasonable and robot like?

No, you're not an intellectual. You're a kid lemming repeating buzzwords drilled into your head by your marxist "professor".

>>19582760
Just doing a basic linguistic analysis would give you a similar result. /x/ is extra fucking dumb.

>>19582783
There's literally a two whole boards devoted to screaming about niggers and kikes, one of them is only 12 index links to the left of /x/.

Fuck off dude.

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>>19582694
>Why don't we have active and passive subdivisions in the other elements, then?

Because the Active and Passive subdivisions are correlated to the opening and the closing of the veil in Dominus Liminus grade. The way that man interacts with spirit can take an Active (transformative, phallic) or receptive (gnostic, yonic) form. This duality opens up a plethora of ritual formulas that become very important to things like Enochian calls

>Yeah, except the world doesn't spontaneously disappear around you.

literally nobody has ever argued that this is a potential thing that could happen

>I'm not interested in the myths and stories

Myths and stories are more than just words on a page, they are collective qualia that can be directly accessed through more subtler Dionysian means, thus why Bhakti is a valid form of spiritual advancement.
>mysticism doesn't get you happiness

It has gained me more lasting happiness than anything else I've ever done. Your Ego could never possibly large enough to cover every individual seeker and their personal experience.
>There are easier ways to accomplish your goals
if your goals are not mystical in nature that is true
>>19582714
>Old Hag
I'm honestly flattered right now

>>19582796
That one super bullshit memechart puts it at like 45, which is below normative function to type or operate electronics.

Again, excuse me for doubting a linguistic analysis on a site with so many phoneposters where "pretending to be retarded" has been elevated to an artform.

I don't doubt /x/ is dumb, I doubt it's outside a standard deviation of dumb.

>>19582799
Dude, why do you respond to a post like that? Does it trigger you that your beloved jews will disappear within our lifetime? That's the restoration of natural order.

No stopping it.

>>19582806
More than you?
Yes.

>>19582743
it seems you should be smarter than to say shit like "'mysticism won't make you happy" when you outta be saying "mysticism failed to make me happy."

>only the basics that actually survive any serious scrutiny.

What if I'm scrutinizing whether it's fun and interesting?

>>19582832
>>19582743
>looking for happiness outside the sanctuary of self

Baka desu fampais.

>>19582775
And how is mandaeism not part of that melting pot that the mediterranean world was? Mesopotamia is not excluded at all.

>>19582819
Hebrew sourced magick and all that aside, explain why. We're not talking about systems of occultism, we're talking about groups of people.

Hardmode: don't resort to SJW feelings. Spare me the phony moral outrage bullshit.

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>>19582839
>looking for happiness

>>19582832
>What if I'm scrutinizing whether it's fun and interesting?
Then you're a fucking retard. Get a hobby that isn't gay as fuck.

>>19582840
I'd be sorta hard pressed to call the Swamp Arabs "Mediterranean".

>>19582842
You're being a belligerent off topic jackass, and for every other problem I've had with a kike or a nigger, the ones I interact with don't barge into a conversation where race has literally zero bearing to screech about crackers or spics, unlike /pol/tards who have to make EVERYTHING about their pet topic the exact same way furfags, ponyfags, and SU gemfags do.

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>>19582839
i can't tell through the 4chapanese, are you out here in the year of our lord 2017 implying that mysticism doesn't occur in the sanctuary of the self? Surely not senpai

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Quarreling occurs wherever there are colleagues and one of the group posits his mind as senior to the rest. Slander occurs even where there has been purification for quarrel is senior to calm.

>>19582842
He's mad that his race is practically extinct without even a fight. Instead of blaming his incompetent ancestors, he blames white people.

Doesn't really take a genius to see through him.

>>19582784
You mean thoughtforms, which might have some influence on reality via telekinesis/ telepathy. Sure.

Why not?

I mean, the research is quite conclusive that such things are indeed possible.

That said, I would refrain from categorizing things in such manner unless we're willing to get rid of all scientific findings on the topic. Which I'm not.

>>19582805
>Because the Active and Passive subdivisions are correlated to the opening and the closing of the veil in Dominus Liminus grade.

As if that isn't the case with the other grades...

>The way that man interacts with spirit can take an Active (transformative, phallic) or receptive (gnostic, yonic) form.

Both *always* happen at once. It's like this fallacy that divination is somehow just "receiving" information.

>This duality opens up a plethora of ritual formulas that become very important to things like Enochian calls

Meh?

I've always run Enochian with just words, and I had pretty staggering results. Formulas are UPG, a crutch to help train the next generation.

At the end of the day, they're quite irrelevant.

>literally nobody has ever argued that this is a potential thing that could happen

We were literally just talking about banishing the Earth element, which you'll recall is where we live.

>Myths and stories are more than just words on a page, they are collective qualia that can be directly accessed through more subtler Dionysian means, thus why Bhakti is a valid form of spiritual advancement.

You'll have to elaborate on the latter term, "spiritual advancement".

If, like the thousands of 'spiritual seekers', you mean "personal integration", I'll have to straight up disagree.

Myths are only useful insofar as they provide some context and meaning to our lives. They're hardly relevant once you have a reasonable idea of your purpose, which should manifest more-or-less around K&C. Or during your first few therapy sessions, whichever is appropriate.

C.D.

Please stop fighting, mom and dad!!!

>>19582805
>It has gained me more lasting happiness than anything else I've ever done. Your Ego could never possibly large enough to cover every individual seeker and their personal experience.

There ain't no such thing as 'ego' in this world.

>if your goals are not mystical in nature that is true

And if they are mystical in nature, there's certainly a quicker and easier way than spending months upon months doing ritual for a sense of satisfaction or accomplishment.

>>19582832
>it seems you should be smarter than to say shit like "'mysticism won't make you happy" when you outta be saying "mysticism failed to make me happy."

Mysticism WON'T make you happy.

You know what makes everyone happy?

Fulfilling responsibilities. Having friends. Having a partner. Having kids. Seeing them grow.

Those are universals. If you're one of the select few who goes full mystic and somehow feels content in their lives, great.

I don't want to die, and leave my loved ones with the knowledge that I've wasted my time studying obscure manuscripts and performing rituals that brought no satisfaction to anyone but myself, and didn't in the slightest help anyone deal with their individual suffering.

>What if I'm scrutinizing whether it's fun and interesting?

>>>/a/

>>19582839
Bruv, I frankly have never been happier in my life than when I got married. NOTHING comes even close to that.

>>19582861
>You're being a belligerent off topic jackass
I am not. I asked you a question, which is not illogical or difficult to answer. I'm also not the other anon you were conversing with. Don't avoid the question with such petty nonsensical distractions derived from feelings.

>and for every other problem I've had with a kike or a nigger, the ones I interact with don't barge into a conversation where race has literally zero bearing to screech about crackers or spics
That's funny, considering "fuck all white people" seems to be a modern mantra of both in the wide political spectrum.

Again now. Hebrew source occultism aside, explain why you like both groups of people, without resorting to contrived, insincere emotions.

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>>19582743
>not understanding can take one significantly further than understanding, due to the liminal states

sure

Let me throw this out there: The LBRP is a "Banishing" ritual in so much as it unsheathes the awareness of the practitioner from the basest manifestation of the elements as confined within the element we call Earth. This includes (if the practitioner has developed the appropriate level of ability) the literal confinement of distracting (that which moves against the Will) base level qualia from the literal ritual space. This could include Astral nastys, qlipothic forms, negative emotions, even the sounds of your roommate fucking in the room next to you. Are the literal sound waves of slapping cheeks going to be traveling into your ear from the room next to you? Yes of course, the difference is the "wall" you put up with your banishing ritual should include a Wall within your inner sense of perception, your "Magickal mirror" against outside influence. Because what you are "unsheathing" by doing the LBRP is the essential elemental nature unconstrained by the element of Earth, including paradoxically the true nature of the element Earth itself. Picture very related

Look at where the pentagram rituals place you on the Tree of Life, look at what you're facing. The astral interaction of Mars and Sagittarius alone imply some form of "cleansing"

I don't really think you're making a void as much as you're making a place (mentally and physically) clear of influences that go against the Will

zozzle

>>19582883
>thoughtforms

No and you have answered my question.

>>19582902
>I don't really think you're making a void as much as you're making a place (mentally and physically) clear of influences that go against the Will
What a crock of shit. No, waving your hands around in a pentagram wont remove all the negative astral influences, you deluded cunt.

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>>19582878
He who insults is insulted. He who sneers is sneered at.

>>19582861
You don't think the manadeans weren't heavily influence by mediterranean peoples?

>>19582930
You know the motions are just a trigger for something else right?

>>19582894
>objectively explain your subjective tastes without resorting to emotions

I mean I sorta just did.
I like groups X and Y more than you because when having a conversation about A or B, neither of them have barged in to screech about K and N are inferior to W, which you have.

>>19582888
>You know what makes everyone happy?

>Fulfilling responsibilities. Having friends. Having a partner. Having kids. Seeing them grow.
Widely applicable is by no means universal.

You've got to stop getting on a dick and riding it like it's the only dick in town and thinking your personal interpretation of that dick fiddling your prostate applies to anyone but you you solipsistic cunt. I will say, when you ride dick, you go all out. You're some kind of cock zealot when it comes to whatever is up your ass on any given week.

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>>19582888
>There ain't no such thing as 'ego' in this world.
I'm not sure who or what I'm talking to then. Perhaps I am talking to the frustrated amalgamation of every failed Magician's regrets, their dried bones chattering to me as I walk over them and continue on the Path.

>And if they are mystical in nature, there's certainly a quicker and easier way

Do tell

>You know what makes everyone happy?

literally nothing. There is literally no universal thing that will make every single person in existence happy.

> didn't in the slightest help anyone deal with their individual suffering.

It's your will to serve your family. That's fine. Just don't make anyone else try to live in the shadow of your cross

I don't mean to be a dick dude, you've made valuable contributions to this thread, I just don't think your authoritative generalizing statements are very valid and even if they are it's not the thing that someone can get on high and preach about, it's something that has to be directly experienced.

>>19582930
sick counter argument bro, I'm sure all the secret Aryans in Lemuria are high fiving over that sick burn

>>19582883

My teacher, when he was young and didn't know better, did an Enochian square working of earth of earth and nothing else. Within hours, the house in which he worked was razed to the ground. I have stood in the vacant lot.THAT was staggering.

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>>19582965
>some kind of cock zealot

>>19582973
>the house in which he worked was razed to the ground
Not "to the ground" but into little pyramids.

>>19582955
>>objectively explain your subjective tastes without resorting to emotions
Are your "subjective tastes" not based in logical rationality?

>I mean I sorta just did.
No, you didn't. You failed to explain why even by the standard of petty emotions. You merely said "X didn't do Y, like you". Which is not related nor valid in any way to the initial question.

>>19582888
>I don't want to die, and leave my loved ones with the knowledge that I've wasted my time studying obscure manuscripts and performing rituals that brought no satisfaction to anyone but myself, and didn't in the slightest help anyone deal with their individual suffering.

Wait what? Is this the same Surgo? The one who promoted indifference and psychopathy as goals?
Interesting.

>>19582985

Heh.

Very tiny pyramids.

>>19582888
>don't want to die, and leave my loved ones with the knowledge that I've wasted my time studying obscure manuscripts and performing rituals that brought no satisfaction to anyone but myself, and didn't in the slightest help anyone deal with their individual suffering.
>no satisfaction to anyone but myself

I mean let's just take an obvious example- Aleister Crowley did exactly that and there are a lot of people floating around in the world right now who found his work to be pretty useful.

This is one thing I like Indian culture for, there's this belief that the spiritual attainment of sadhus is passing benefit to the society at large. Surgo i don't know why you're equating mysticism wit solipsistic narcissism but i bet it has to do with your personal experience (not that solopsistic narcissism isn't super present in spirituality, don't get me wrong). It just seems dumb as all hell to project that onto the group at large

>>19582991
>it's not relevant to why you like some group more than an individual, that they have yet to engage you personally with a behavior which you find annoying, counterproductive, and exasperating, while the individual in question has engaged you with the behavior which you find annoying, counterproductive, and exasperating

K.

>>19582993
>Wait what? Is this the same Surgo?
Looks like the same old, childish dickhead to me.

>>19583011
It's fascinating. You can answer every question related to such obscure knowledge and subjects on magick, yet cannot answer something so simple related to people.

>>19582974
Why buttsecks are a thing in some rituals and practices? Serious question. I don't get it. Why getting your as plundered or shit your cock is something valid?

>>19583025
You mean a dude making good money and pumping his wife full of seed while you're shitposting on 4chan?

>>19583005
Are you the moor who tried DBoE but failed?

>>19583037
The Ida and Pingala are connected to the prostate and the tip of your cock. Thus, by stimulating one of those, you stimulate your nadis.

That's why fags have a fag face and lisp like teenage girls.

>>19583052
That's gay.

>>19583037

Sex is power. Transgressive sex more powerful still.

>>19583047
>moor who tried DBoE but failed
I, what?

>>19583037
Just because you deny that it's there doesn't mean it's not. Here, like we're children doing a syllogism:

>I dislike when I am engaged in a behavior I find annoying, counterproductive, and exasperating.
>Groups X and Y have not engaged me in that behavior, but you have.
>Therefore....
Go ahead and finish it for us bud.

>>19583047
Get your tripfags straight
>>19583065
This nigga is always big on mystery and short on specifics. How specifically can "transgressive sex" be used in a ritual context?

>>19583090
>How specifically can "transgressive sex" be used in a ritual context?
In Star Sapphire.
Hermit degrees OTO.
In Parapuja.
In any number of evokations.
In Hevajra empowerments.

Really it's not hard to use. Just put your thing in the other thing at a ritually significant juncture.

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>>19582888
>You know what makes everyone happy?
Boobs?
>Fulfilling responsibilities. Having friends. Having a partner. Having kids. Seeing them grow.
You have a strange notion of what everyone wants.

Anybody know any good books on demons? Most tend to be just how-to-summon bullshit or Christian finger-waggling bullshit. I just want to know about them and different methods of getting them to fuck off, in the event of a worst-case scenario.

>>19582973
Sounds about right.

>>19582971
>I'm not sure who or what I'm talking to then.
That's a pretty tired path of questioning.

But for the purpose of the argument, it's irrelevant.

>Do tell

Psychotherapy (to organize one's mind properly), and self-hypnosis, to interact with those elements.

A much easier and faster way to build one's temple, in short. And once that's done, all that's required is a bit of looseness in it for God to shine.

Shouldn't take longer than a few months, with a 120+ IQ.

>There is literally no universal thing that will make every single person in existence happy.

Accomplishing one's goals.

We're literally wired to experience happiness and satisfaction at that.

Arguably if someone has brain damage, it might not be the case. But such a person wouldn't really pursue anything in life anyway, since there's no payoff.

>It's your will to serve your family. That's fine. Just don't make anyone else try to live in the shadow of your cross

Meh. Everyone's paths is their own.

My point is solely that there are things which are intrinsic to our nature, biologically or otherwise, and satisfying them should be a top priority, as otherwise one does little more than ferment in dissatisfaction.

>I don't mean to be a dick dude, you've made valuable contributions to this thread,

Thanks?

>I just don't think your authoritative generalizing statements are very valid and even if they are it's not the thing that someone can get on high and preach about,

Common sense is rare these days, though. People need to be beaten over the head until they start acting decently.

Few are special. Everyone wants to be. Looking in the mirror and realizing you're just another body is a very liberating, and terrifying experience.

>it's something that has to be directly experienced.

Certainly. Yet words alone can lead to that experience as well; after all, isn't words what everything is made of?

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>>19583047
Not me my dude

>>19583090
>How specifically can "transgressive sex" be used in a ritual context?

If you have to ask, an answer won't be of any use to you.

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>>19583112
>Boobs?

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>>19583118
>Few are special. Everyone wants to be. Looking in the mirror and realizing you're just another body is a very liberating, and terrifying experience.
And yet here you are, pontificating.

>>19583087
>blak man wear blue hat
>wite man wear green hat
>me no like green color
>therefore u bad and him no bad

This is how silly you sound.

>>19583149
>This is how silly you sound.
>>19582783
>>19582681

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>>19583168

>>19577532

Thoth, I have a serious question.
What is the extent of the spread of Hermetic philosophy associated with the Hurrians? I know that the emerald tablet was reportedly found in Tyana, which has significance in the Hittite empire. But Hurrian stuff, I think, predates Hittite remains and it may be possible that Trismegistus was a Hurrian.

>>19582993
>The one who promoted indifference and psychopathy as goals?

Hey, indifference and psychopathy are insanely valuable traits to possess.

They just need to be driven in the right direction.

>>19583005
>Aleister Crowley did exactly that and there are a lot of people floating around in the world right now who found his work to be pretty useful.

How about his family? How about his friends?

Do you really think they appreciated being with such a dick?

Do you think his legacy isn't a burden on them?

Do you think that Crowley's contributions to New-Age culture have not been overall very detrimental to our society?

I mean, at the end of the day, sure, it's an interesting read, but there's so much more valuable stuff to do and pursue than some old weirdo's writings on magic.

>belief that the spiritual attainment of sadhus is passing benefit to the society at large

Does it?

I've yet to see evidence of such benefits.

>Surgo i don't know why you're equating mysticism wit solipsistic narcissism

Because we're social creatures, and putting concepts and ideas over fellow humans is not great for our psyche.

>It just seems dumb as all hell to project that onto the group at large

Well... talking to invisible people from other dimensions does tend to imply that one values those invisible people over real people.

It's a matter of mental health.

>>19583038
I'm shitposting on 4chin too tho.

>>19583112
>Boobs?
YES.

>You have a strange notion of what everyone wants.
Well, it's more like what your body and brain want.

>I just want to know about them and different methods of getting them to fuck off, in the event of a worst-case scenario.

Just tell them to fuck off.

>>19583141
Yeah, becoming more of a normie has certainly had its benefits.

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>>19583118
>People need to be beaten over the head until they start acting decently

troublesome logic, often leads to horrific acts

>My point is solely that there are things which are intrinsic to our nature, biologically

I would argue that engaging in the culturally programmed structure of a family unit is by no means biologically intrinsic

>Looking in the mirror and realizing you're just another body is a very liberating, and terrifying experience

agreed, people should stare at their flesh in a mirror more often

>120+ IQ.

*sigh*

>>19583149
Nobody is buying your Ape is racist argument. It's been like three threads now please stop trying.

>>19583123
Heh

>>19583111
>Hevajra empowerments

every time I think I have some sort of grasp of religion I read about something that fucking blows my understanding out of the water and this is a great example.

>Just put your thing in the other thing at a ritually significant juncture

I think you understate how much cultural deconditioning needs to happen and how much ritual discipline is required to do this properly

>>19583173
So then why are you so invested about my opinions w/r/t my opinions of blacks/jews and arguing as if you are indeed the person I replied to here >>19582799, if for any other reason than to just shit up the thread? If you ain't him, why care in the first place, why argue as if you were, and why wait until now to state you weren't, , when I should have zero problem with you personally as you weren't engaging in the behavior in question?

>>19583180
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanchuniathon

>>19583087
>I, what?
Not you, another anon, Also you finished it.

>>19583188
>troublesome logic, often leads to horrific acts

It's called parenting.

>I would argue that engaging in the culturally programmed structure of a family unit is by no means biologically intrinsic

One could say it's quite advantageous in other ways, however. No risk of STD's, stronger bonding, less drama, much higher accountability to each-other, plus other benefits that stem from marriage.

Re: IQ: if a person isn't above average at a college campus, how the hell do they want to be above average in actual life?

Especially considering the fact that the study of one's own mind is very much alike academic pursuits.

>>19583188
>Nobody is buying your Ape is racist argument

What?

>>19583192
>So then why are you so invested about my opinions w/r/t my opinions of blacks/jews
Why not?

>If you ain't him, why care in the first place
Curiosity aided by your refusal to give a straight and honest answer.

>why argue as if you were, and why wait until now to state you weren't,
I have stated a few times now that I am not him. They were ignored for some reason.

>>19583198
The only other anon here who attempted it was a Golden Dawner in the UK.

>>19583127
And cocks, right?

>>19583205
>>19583198
wtf is DBoE?

>>19583214
Dragon Book of Essex

>>19583192
Dude, I'm so sick of this. Your race is dead because your retarded ancestors were selling off their brothers and sisters for alcohol.

Is it a crime that I don't want the same to happen to my people?


>>19583204
>I have stated a few times now that I am not him.
Don't bother. Ape is a paranoid basket case.

>>19583217
Oh, thanks.

>>19583205
Was he successful?

>>19583214
The Dragon Book of Essex.

>>19583204
Oh, I see it now, I was too busy trying to address points to really notice, and most of you guys sorta bleed together; do pardon.

In either case, I've literally never seen someone justify their likes using "logic and reason", as if there's a logical and reasonable reason why someone prefers the flavor of X to Y. I find particular behaviors to be exhausting, time wasting, annoying, etc., and I prefer not to be engaged like that.

>>19583223
Well I'm glad I stopped typing.

>>19583227
No.

>>19583052
>>19583065
Thanks for the answer
>>19583087
>Just because you deny that it's there doesn't mean it's not.
No need to be on the defensive, not everyone is a troll in this thread, broham.

>>19583187
>Yeah, becoming more of a normie has certainly had its benefits.
Guess I should go dive into some pussy and try not to vomit and go against my better judgement not to pass on some really shitty genetic defects so I can be happy like all my friends that totally find their kids to be the most fulfilling thing in their lives but pop prozac because their lives are miserable shit sundaes of which kids are the cherry. Yeah dude, your sage advice is the bee's fucking knees, let me tell you.

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>>19583241
>not everyone is a troll in this thread
You coulda fuckin' fooled me.

>>19583243
>You coulda fuckin' fooled me.
see
>>19583242

>>19583235
>and most of you guys sorta bleed together
What, whites?

>In either case, I've literally never seen someone justify their likes using "logic and reason"
How groups behave in society, their histories, their character, and various other things like race, genetics and IQ. In this particular case: "niggers and kikes."

>>19583246
I can't poke at shitty advice by giving a personal example of how it's by no means universal without being a troll, now?

>>19583254
>What, whites?
no, the anons in this thread.

There is a group of fags who only comes to this thread to troll. Dunno why, but it started with a demented retard who always posted the same shit.

>>19583267
I rarely post in these threads anymore so I have no idea who you're referring to. Is it another "prove magickckckc is real" retard?

>>19583267
That explains the extremely low quality of these threads.

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>>19583267
And that's why I often post with the same wizardly pics.

I could just trip up, I've done it in the past, but I feel like I don't have nearly enough to contribute to be worth it. Even though I did transcribe the Secrets of Albertus Magnus. And had a trip for that. But that was just the once, and I don't think I did a very good job.

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>>19583299
Oh yeah I remember you

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Surgo will you let me see your Astro chart? I'll interpret if you care but most of all I'm just genuinely curious

>>19583450
I dearly love that deck in theory, but would never buy it in practice.

>>19583471
Why not in practice? I don't actually own it but several people around me do

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>>19583483
She just made a set of cool astrology illustrations which I'm kind of into

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>>19583483
I like the art but don't get anything from the cards, just a big question mark in my head and a scramble for concordances.

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>>19583246
>>19583254
You have so much in common, you are like bickering brothers.

You both believe in the existence of a race of peoples called "whites".

One seeks to exalt and venerates while the other belittles and vilifies.

These "whites" must feel quite important, having such learned individuals verbally sparring on their behalf.

I hope to one day speak to one of these whites in person. Perhaps I will learn of their whereabouts when I finally make contact with the blacks?

???

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>>19583525
Mm her shit is super clear for me, like it's refreshingly clear after years of the Thoth deck (Thoth is still bae tho). I think because I do so much interpretation of animal movements and am tapped into animal symbols already, it came easily to me. The one you just posted a pic of, Marseille? always been like trying to read a slab of wood for me, on the other hand. I know it's like the oldest school of the old school but it just is totally flat for me for whatever reason

>>19577532
http://symboldictionary.net/?p=1087
Question about seal of Saturn. Do you draw the square with numbers 1-9 as shown here and then draw lines to make the seal of Saturn within the square? Can I just draw it on a piece of paper with pencil then burn it for it to work?

>>19583235
Any chance you can address this >>19579012
Would really like to read this one, senpai.

>>19582521
only in huge quanteties, in small dozes its been used as hearth medicine for centuries.
>beliveing me
>a random anon on /x/

trust me, im a doctor

>>19583646
As useful ward against motion sickness?

>>19583564
I always assumed it was a masculine/feminine thing. The Mary-El was pretty but was like going down the weird aisle with the tampons and romance novels. Thoth was clear as day from jump, the waite smith was replete with symbolism but the pips were more of a distraction than any sort of help.

The Marseille is so neutral and absolutely unhelpful visually that it's hard to read from but I don't feel clouded by cruft. I think because it's so iconic and boring, I can tap into the narrative of the cards without getting bogged down by symbolism and concordance and and artistic license with color. It probably helps that half the time you don't bother with the whole deck and only work with the trumps because the pips are boring to look at, unnecessary for most questions and reading them requires jodorowski's book and a lot of meditation.

>>19583680
And by meditation I mean analyzing the minutiae of every detail beyond the point of sanity and pretending what you come back with is obvious.

>>19583680
I'm not gonna lie i don't care for smith-waite.

>Mary-el
Wow this deck is extra as all hell. I feel you on the "grocery store vampire romance novel" situation

>the marseille is so neutral
I think that's exactly what I don't like about it. Also I'm laughing my ass off, I just read that the Marseille is based of reconstructions of woodcut designs, and I said it felt like reading a block of wood. I wasn't wrong I guess

>>19583711
I don't like the Marseille, I just have a massive problem with every other deck. It reads like a text message, but what comes to mind from the story is all from you. Thoth reads like a shitpost for me. Dick jokes and expletives everywhere.

>>19583527
>21st Century
>2017
>Not being a race realist
You people have no excuse. You know you are wrong and yet you spread lies. That's why you need to be shot.

Because you have access to the truth and yet you accept lies.

>>19580737
The Emotion Code by Bradley Nelson.

Delete it right out of your system. For maximum wellness, remove all negative emotional energies from your field.

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>>19583745
Why whatever do you mean anon

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>>19583794
>You people have no excuse.
What people do I belong to?

>You know you are wrong and yet you spread lies.
What am I wrong about? What lies have I spread?

>That's why you need to be shot.
I have come across several people that believed the same thing. Thankfully I am still alive.

>Because you have access to the truth and yet you accept lies.
What lies have I accepted?

At least explain your reasoning before you shoot me anon. Is that not a reasonable request?

>>19583887
I'm not here to argue, because that's been done to death in many threads. You have agency and free will and you use that freedom to spread filthy lies.

There's no excuse for this kind of shit in a world where knowledge is free. That's all.

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>>19583931
>I'm not here to argue
What are you here to do?

>because that's been done to death in many threads
Was I present in any of these threads?

>You have agency and free will
Yes I do.

>you use that freedom to spread filthy lies.
Again, what lies have I spread?

>There's no excuse for this kind of shit.
What kind of shit are we talking about?

>That's all.
That depends entirely on you, anon.

I am willing to hear you out and you are willing to shoot me for reasons unknown.

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>>19583991

Stop enabling the addictions of the ill, you're doing them harm in the long run. Feeding a troll allows it to stay in its current state. Once it starves for attention and interaction it will seek out alternatives. Exhausting sources of negative attention, it will either terminate or seek out positive attention, thus developing as a being. Either way, its suffering and the suffering of those whom have dealt with it will be lessened.

>>19582661
I was on and off with depression before I started practicing rituals and I have literally seen no sight of it since. It has also pushed me to be more accepting of people, to observe conversation rather than push my opinions and I've begun to quite smoking and eating a lot healthier

>it's probably placebo

Maybe, I don't care and it's not the point. Placebo or not I have improved, and that is exactly why I started doing it in the first place

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>>19584034
Sometimes a call to reason is the only way forward. Ignoring problems rarely makes them go away.

>>19584152
>It has also pushed me to be more accepting of people
lel

>>19577532
newb trying to get into the traditional craft

anybody have texts to recommend? i'm looking through the library and it's pretty large so i'm wondering what /x/ recommends. gemma gary any good?

so what's everybody here do? I'm a waiter, personally I don't hate it. The money's good for what it is and I like the people I work with usually. Tough to find a time to talk about occult/magic with people tho, really it's just fun to talk about the ghost.

Which leads to baby sacrifice

And us executing all of you

>>19584435
>the ghost.
What you mean by this?

>>19584435
I'm a student. Philosophy. It's ok. Mostly everyone is a psychoanalytical marxist or a pragmatic analytic. Those topics can be quite fun to talk with albeit esoteric moreso than occult. I myself like the classics. Studying latin at the moment. Wish I could get my hands on some latin grimoires.

>>19584422
Gemma Gary is good. Might I also suggest opuscula magica one and two by chumbley? His other work is quite advanced but these are moreso essays and interviews aimed at novices.

>>19584546
*making of cyborg plays faintly in the background*

>>19584231
If he is genuinely mentally ill, he's either too fucked for saving or incapable of helping himself without some sort of neuropharmalogical intervention.

>>19584435
I'm a college student predominately. I've done a lot to get by as far as money: cutting hair, web programming, reselling, art, cook, and retail. I kind of just do whatever to get by. Strangely, there's a lot of people in this area with some degree of interest in the occult or spirituality.
>>19584612
Sad to say I'm not in school for anything remotely that interesting. I'm just trying to end up working as a lab assistant or something one day.

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Are the traditional latin Catholic exorcism rites very effective?
Wondering how good they are at clearing a space though supposedly only trained priests should use them.

Is the BOTA a decent lodge to join?

>>19585292

As with all things, it depends on the person using it. You could academically run circles around somebody but if you don't honestly believe in it, you're going to have weaker results than someone who does believe in it and barely understands it.

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Is there a method for working your will as often as you can during your everyday life without rituals etc?
>inb4 discipline

>>19585648

Discipline. Refer to Liber 3 and Liber 913 for examples.

>>19582198
This doesn't work

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>>19583450

>>19585648
Depends on what you understand as 'will'. If you mean willpower, as in conscious focus that occupies your neocortex, then you're exercising it every time you're doing something you don't feel like.

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>>19585866
I dont know shit on astrology but my chart looks different af.

>>19585866
sun in Sries with a virgo asc and moon, desu you were always gonna be basic ;)

Mars RIGHT on the midheaven, like within a single degree.
>Very early in life, you will develop a firm determination to do everything your own way. You decide upon a course of action quite quickly, and you usually know just what you want to accomplish. If someone tries to stop you, you get very angry, feeling that you are the only one who really knows what is right for you and what isn't. Eventually this will be true, but while you are young you should be a little less headstrong and listen to what others say. You won't always follow their advice, but at least give it a hearing. However, you are not merely strong-willed; you also identify yourself very strongly with whatever you intend to do.

So many people ITT were just commenting on ^

>Saturn in Aquarius
You're younger than I thought you were.

>North node in capricorn in the 4th house of family, roots and home life
As annoying as your evangelical zealotry is on this topic, I don't think you're wrong to believe that hard work in the home is a path to transformation and emotional enrichment for you.


>Jupiter retrograding in Leo
I also have this (jupiter retrograding through leo), and it's a kind of giant ?? for me. I have it in my house of familial inheritance, where it could mean like getting a bunch of money but then squandering it on stupid bullshit, or having it in stocks that then tank, stuff like that. Jupiter grants boons wherever it falls and in your case it falls in the 11th house, which rules group work and friendships. Retrograde is sort of like...kind of hard to access the boons granted by jupiter. Also you have this in the 3*33' Leo, or the 3rd degree and 33rd minute of Leo.

We actually share a ton of stuff, come to think of it. Your north node is a degree from mine. Mine is in my second house, so more emphasis on work and self-supporting livelihood, less on the familia focus that you seem to have.

>>19585997
ha. haha. So that double thick black line that bisects your chart left to right is the horizon line. every single thing in your chart is above the horizon, except:
>your north node
>chiron
>pluto

so like everything in your chart is frolicking around in the visible world, "above the surface," except deep dark pluto (represents everything below the surface, really, the occult, sex, death, rebirth), the asteroid that represents the transformational power of injury, and the north node of the moon, which is like "karmic true north," the sort of incarnational direction you ought to move in if you want the most bang for your buck in terms of shucking off the karmic slough this spin of the wheel.

>>19585688
Care to elaborate?
If it's flawed I'd be interested in hearing how it's flawed.

>>19585866
What website do you guys use for your charts?

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>>19586090
>Mars RIGHT on the midheaven, like within a single degree.

This is like really fucking useful for goal oriented career pursuits btw you can be a powerhouse with mars that high in the sky. It's Mars in Gemini, which means you could struggle with a diffusion of your energy. An aspect you share with the illustrious likes of me and Ja Rule. See pic related for the world's most classic Mars in Gemini move of Ja Rule apologizing for the disaster that was Fyre music fest. I saw this tweet go out and immediately knew he had that aspect (then I checked, I'm not just assuming lol).

>>19586182
I use astro.com because they'll let me cast whole sign houses and add in as many fixed stars as my glittering heart desires. If you don't really care about either of those things, I like astrotheme too though

>>19586090
>it's a kind of giant ?? for me

Notice it's opposed to Saturn in my case, which is quite bad.

It's like a constant struggle between pursuing things and not overextending myself.

>>19586182
You should also check out the Solar Fire software.

do most of you who practice witchcraft work with deities? is cooperating with deities/other "supernatural" beings a necessity?

sorry if this has an obvious answer. i'm not a religious person and i'd feel like a dick for only calling upon deities when i need help.

>>19584618
thanks anon! i'll give them a read. i appreciate it.

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>>19586090
"Do me"

>>19586241
>Notice it's opposed to Saturn in my case, which is quite bad

You have a lot of "bad" aspects. you also have a grand earth trine, which is cool, between your moon, venus, and then you have your neptune and uranus together on the third point of the triangle.

It's funny I've been thinking about planetary harmony between jupiter and saturn all week, and not only is a malefic positively impacted by the presence of a benefic, but the benefic too is usefully modified by the malefic. Like jupiter unchecked is just a fat merry king. The serious influence of saturn is how we get like a stern emperor, or a hierophant.

>>19586293
?

>>19586283
I do, but I don't think it's strictly required.
I don't see why it would be impossible to only work with one's own power, elemental forces, etc.

>>19586293
I'm literally talking to a bunch of occultists about their planetary aspects. The pre-existing threads on the subject are full of fucking retards. I wanted Surgos chart because this entire thread became about his personality for like 3 hours yesterday.

Sorry to interrupt the scintillating conversation that was popping off before the- oh wait. there wasn't one.

>>19586309
>I wanted Surgos chart because this entire thread became about his personality for like 3 hours yesterday.

That Mars on MC... dominating wherever I appear.

HOHOHOHOHOHO

>>19586316
to be fair I don't think

>>19586290
>planetary harmony between jupiter and saturn

is off-topic at all. I'm not going to read every random anon's chart in the thread out loud because why

>>19586319
If we're going to spend hours devoted to your personality I figured I'd at least make it enriching for myself

>>19586324
Yeah. Although tbqh I don't believe we'd finished that argument about the LBRP.

>>19586316
you're right though I should make room for top content like

>race realism
>50of60's weird bablyonian shit
>"what do you guys do for a living"

pick up some agrippa you illiterate pleb

>>19586331
>implying any argument with you is ever "finished" unless the other side submits to your understanding

>>19586337
>implying any argument with you is ever "finished" unless the other side submits to your understanding
Or they have an actual argument that holds up to basic logic.

>>19586347
I would make my own "let's sperg about Astrology" thread but they just get instantly flooded with people who can't read a chart asking for theirs done, and it drowns out any possibility of conversation about the meaning of specific aspects, planetary interactions, the history of the practice, really anything that would increase my understanding of the subject. Like talking to you is interesting because you have an actual knowledge of the practice, it seems, I don't have to spell out in simplest terms what everything I'm saying means.

Astro threads on x just becomes like 16 consecutive posts about anon's lives and the two or three dejected astrologer's interpreting a chart or two until they get bored and wander away.

>>19586388
Pretty much.

It's quite tough to find people who understand how things work (more or less).

Similar problems arise with the tarot, too.

Damn, this reminds me of the short time I've spent on Oranum. THE STUPID, JESUS CHRIST. THE STUPID!

I've had over a year straight of major tragedy in my life and it's been real fucking shitty, all of it completely out of my control. How can I tell if this is due to some magical influences and what would I need to do to protect myself?

I have an interest in the occult but I've never really tried anything magical or dove into any books seriously

>>19586684
>completely out of my control
Lies. Someone who says that doesn't have what it takes to be a magician.

I would add that the strong Mars MC in Gemini sextile Mercury both third decanate could imply a tendency to argue for the sake of arguing either as an excercise or amusement.
Just my un-asked for 2 pence.

>>19586684
>never really tried anything magical
One hell of a time to start learning.

>>19586704
Well I don't have a cure for cancer my friend, so I'm not sure what you expect me to control about that

>>19586121
This sounds very interesting, thanks. How much cost a complete reading? It seems it reveals alot from personality. I searched a bit and the position of mars in aries explain why I can get really mad over things, but for a short period of time, which is completely true.

>>19586760
>How much cost a complete reading?
From a newbie? Some $300+

From a pro? We're looking at $2.5k+

Of course, it depends on how they run their business.

>>19586400
It's the whole new age market working off thirdhand knowledge. It's not like there's a definitive Tarot for the Practicing Occultist: No Crowley Poetry Edition that you can point anyone to. That, and all the Jewish mysticism that goes into most of it is not easy reading.

>>19586816
Yeah. Part of why I recommend to my students that they start with neuropsychology, and then study clinical psychology as far as they can muster.

Once that's done, and they've done some work on themselves, everything else becomes more-or-less reliant on them absorbing the books, and putting them into practice on the foundation of how their bodies work.

The biggest benefit of this is that it removes all the "I saw a demon, this means I really summoned one" delusions that are all too common.

>>19586857
Not sure what any of that has to do with reading tarot, but okay.

The only problem I see with that is that half of neuropsych is vague to the point of uselessness because fMRIs are bad at a lot of things it's used for and 90 percent of clinical psychology has been disproven by neuropsych or by virtue of being shitty theories based on poor research design with low replicability.

t. psych major

>>19586290
>not only is a malefic positively impacted by the presence of a benefic, but the benefic too is usefully modified by the malefic
Bullshit. What kind of a shit-tier astrologer are you?

Try living life when your Sun is sodomized by Neptune and Saturn.

>>19586901
>Not sure what any of that has to do with reading tarot, but okay.

Because people who understand how people work are less liable to misinterpret and introduce their own imaginations into a reading.

Not to mention that the Tarot does have a ton of direct references to psychology and society at large.

The wider the amount of knowledge and experience one has, the better and clearer one's judgment is going to be.

And sure, agreed on the neuropsych. Doesn't make being able to reference particular brain parts (rather than vague concepts and ideas) any less useful.

>>19586915
You have students?

>>19586922
He has people that pay him. Let that be a lesson to never let anyone hypnotize you.

>>19586922
Yeah.

>>19586925
Taking cash from students is a no-no.

I reserve that for clients.

>>19586929
>yeah
But... why?

>>19586931
Same reason I argue all the time - helps me sort my thoughts out, and evaluate where I'm standing.

The fastest way to learn, you know?

Plus, I get to make the world just a tad less shitty.

>>19586915
It's just as fuzzy for people to reference particular brain parts...it just *Feels* more scientific. Me 5 years ago can be like "gosh I have an underdeveloped DLPFC" or I can be like "I'm really fucking 7 of swords/princess of swordsy." I'm still not using neurophysiology particularly accurately to talk about the fact that I'm distractible, creative, have sometimes terrible impulse control and my follow-through could be better.

I don't think the first one does a better job of describing that thing at all, the idea that brain regions can be one-to-one correlated with specific functions is on its way waaaay the hell out anyway.