[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y ] [Search | Home]
4Archive logo
What do you all think of moral philosophy?
If images are not shown try to refresh the page. If you like this website, please disable any AdBlock software!

You are currently reading a thread in /x/ - Paranormal

Thread replies: 51
Thread images: 2
File: XS.jpg (80 KB, 360x462) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
XS.jpg
80 KB, 360x462
What do you all think of moral philosophy?

Recently listened to "Darkside" a Radio play by Tom Stoppard. Got me thinking alot, and I'm now having an existential crisis.

>How can I get out of this rut?
>>
>>17282667
>moral philosophy
Even more of a waste of time than ethics.
>>
>>17282682
Can you expand on that a bit? I want to hear your thoughts.
>>
>>17282701
Talking about things that won't ever change the world won't ever change the world. You can't talk about moral philosophy and talk about something that's ethically constructive at the same time. You can't guilt people into being socially constructive.
>>
>>17282721
With that sort of thinking, then talking about a lot of things won't change the world. However I suppose people talk about moral philosophy with "intent" to change things, despite it not doing anything.

I think moral philosophy helps us understand ourselves as humans though, which could help solve problems later down the line?

Also, in your opinion, what IS something that is ethically construction to talk about socially?
>>
>>17282667
theres literally nothing more than perception of surroundings.
its people that call things "bad" and "good"
morality should only uplift.

that said, actions which will be percieved negatively can be projected as being perceived as such, and it can be beneficial to do so in order to avoid a negative perception by altering or canceling your planned action.

on the other hand, people who say pedophilia is wrong are saying that children aren't people, and that's bad to me; in fact a lot worse than just respecting a child as if they were a person capable of emotional attachment.
>>
>>17282732
>talking about a lot of things won't change the world
Precisely so; talk is cheap. Moral philosophy is just another form of talking that carries the pretense of not being cheap as all fuck. It's all cheap as all fuck no matter how you slice it.
>which could help solve problems later down the line?
If that's an actual question and you care to hear my perspective, then my answer is a solid "No." I know well what potentials unfold from language.

>ethically constructive
Doesn't exist. It's an oxymoron as far as I'm concerned. If there was some special way to present ideas to people such that they suddenly and spontaneously start acting morally en masse, then the shill threads that get posted literally every day on this board would've changed the world a long time ago. They didn't, won't, and never have.
>to talk about socially
Wrong phrasing. I used language like that to suss out who I'm actually talking to; if there's even the slightest miscomprehension of my reasoning in you; you'll end up construing things like that. Your goal is to shill; to be cordial and pretend to have a point to make. Your kind tries to weasel its way into our collective psyche under pretense that there's no other way to reach enough people to get anything done. You're trying to be social under the wrong pretense, and that's what makes it easy to tell that you're a shill. You literally can't hide your intent from the /x/ demographic. Not when it's right there in front of us every fucking day.

Don't even *TRY* to be casual when you're trying to motivate people to change the world. Be upfront about it. Just write your goddamn point and be done with it. Even if you're literally a time traveler and you're afraid to erase your own origin point from existence, or the origin points of your friends, family, future acquaintances, etc., just fucking say what you need to say. You don't need to say why you're here or why you think your perspective matters, you just need to FUCKING SAY IT.
>>
>>17282786
I think a lot of pedophillic bash comes from the fact that children are much more easily to be manipulated.

I can find a child and give them a toy, and play with them for the whole day and they will be my best friends, and do things that I want, but they have no clue about, or that they particularly wouldn't enjoy.

BUt now that I think about it, I could also buy a woman a diamond and hang out with her the whole day and manipulate her just as easy.

It's too much of a gray area.
>>
>>17282667
Its all bullshit,do what you think is right and suits you and you only.
Dont care about other people unless you want to care about them.
>>
>>17282794
Didn't mean to chill, I'm just a random 19 year old that wants to discuss something that has interested me based on the play I listened to.

However all your points are pretty damn valid, and you seem like a smart person. Can you help me out of my existial crisis possibly?

What is the point of life if it's all going to end, I know it seems generic as fuck, but its something I'm battling? If there's not difference in my killing myself tonight, or living another day (in the grand scheme of things) why should I suffer through life?

Even if I lived an amazing life, what is the good in it, if it will all come to an end? The only thing I can think of is leaving something for future generations and increasing the overall happiness of humankind, however I just don't see myself doing anything as such, so in the end, there's no point?
>>
>>17282828
shill not chill*
>>
File: 1450027711998.jpg (685 KB, 697x1000) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1450027711998.jpg
685 KB, 697x1000
>>17282809
yeah, if manipulation is a red flag for sexual conduct then there shouldn't be any relationships at all in the western world probably.
gold-diggers, players.
i just want a waifu.
"when you experience something for the first time, and have no information about it, what you actually feel isn't really as much your own feeling as it is what the general feeling about it is, what everyone else thinks, basically.. its up to you to take those reactions and make your own decisions with it."
an understanding of the subconscious is easily shared when you actually understand it.
and an understanding of the subconcious builds up the concious naturally.
>>
>>17282809
Don't deal in the grey area; deal with what you see in front of you. Trying to create a moral philosophy in your peripheral vision will only blind you to the world you actually live in. Take a lesson from /x/: If you focus too much on what you can't see, you'll only spook yourself at the end of the day.
>>17282828
>based on the play I listened to.
VAAAAAAGGGGGGGUUUUEEEEE.
>Can you help me out of my existial crisis possibly?
I think you mean existential but w/e. Yes, it's very likely that I can do exactly that.
>why should I suffer through life?
You shouldn't; but life isn't suffering. Not for most of us, anyway. I kind of have a shattered soul myself and I'm KIND of an IRL version of Mr. Meeseeks, but I deal with it because I care about people. I have zero desire to live, myself. I wouldn't think that society had lost its way if it made euthanasia legal, I'd think it was finally getting over its primitive egocentrism. Why have a double standard for people when we euthanize pets and the like? Something doesn't fit there and debating what we all think that is won't get us closer to a real solution to the problem.

The issue I have, as you probably noticed from my last post, is that I need to know *SOCIETY* made the change; it won't mean anything to make it legal if it was some fool's political agenda. It needs to happen, if it ever does, because PEOPLE felt it was a right other people needed to have. I wouldn't vote "Yes" for legalizing suicide or anything like that, but I also wouldn't vote against it. I wouldn't try to STOP society from moving in that direction unless I had a damn good reason to believe that every person on this Earth could live a fulfilling life. Given industrialized "comfort," I don't really believe that. "Comfort" isn't the answer to loneliness, pain, suffering, greed, etc.. I struggle every day to figure out how to make society take a sane shape such that everyone CAN live happily ever after. It's hard, and there are no easy answers.
>>
>>17282794
>>17282828
As a branch of philosophy, ethics investigates the questions "What is the best way for people to live?" and "What actions are right or wrong in particular circumstances?"
In other words the very basics of building up laws and a consensus of what's right and wrong in a society, something that influences everyone in the most direct form. To say this has no merit is to limit yourself to the mindset that thoughts/diplomacy has no merit, which is just, lol good luck with that dude.
However, any philosophy branch is about as far away from science as possible, intrinsically subjective it's much better used as a self-development tool than something to study openly. Either way OP, to survive an existential crisis, as it is survival, you're going to have to find your own answers you dumbass, theres no easy way out of this one. It's literally CHOOSE what you live for, or die trying. Anyway, my best advice would just probably ask yourself what you want, afterwards why you want that and the things that don't give a fulfilling answer can and should be ignored. Repeat until life makes some sense. Good luck buddy.
>>
>>17282828
>Even if I lived an amazing life, what is the good in it, if it will all come to an end?
Pay careful attention to the reasoning embedded in your question:
>I lived an amazing life
If you did then you did. If it ends then it ends.
>what is the good in it
It was an amazing life. That alone makes it good.
>it will all come to an end
The ending isn't an undoing; it's a closure. If you've lived a good life then that IS the good in that life. It doesn't matter if no "greater good" comes after. It's a life well lived and that's all that matters in the context of that singular life. If something more comes out of it, or if their influence should help the world for ages to come, all the better, but it's not a requirement. If you can't value one life, you can't value any of the lives that benefit from the good we create to outlive us. The moment you put one life above another, you demean ALL life.

That's just the materialist dimension of my reason. I have so much more to say when metaphysics is involved. The spiritual method of affirming your life is to realize that this moment still exists regardless of any that will follow it. Enjoy it now *BECAUSE* you can't enjoy it as much after-the-fact. Be here, where you really are; not there, where you've yet to be. Do you ultimately have any evidence that you're mortal?
>>
>>17282893
>something that influences everyone in the most direct form
But if fucking doesn't, and when it does, it's always on a moral crusade. You can't ask me to ignore that very image of history that the world has cast at me.
>>
>>17282893
I want to be happy, and I want to be liked, and desired. I want to be that guy that other people look and say hey, that's a cool guy and I wouldn't mind being that guy for a day or two, or three.

Now, I don't know if that stuff will make me happy, but I know I'm not happy right now, and in truth since I've never truly have experienced happiness, I don't know if that's the key I'm searching for.

But when I look on TV and see a couple sitting on a couch holding each other like a mother holds her child, I feel very sad, and disconnected from society.

I feel very small in comparison to the entire universe, but maybe if I were a large part of someone elses life (voluntarily, not something forced like being a big part of a family members life) then I would feel important, and being important would give me something to live for.

Am I wrong for thinking like this, is there anyway you can help with the information I've just given?
>>
>>17282904
>Do you ultimately have any evidence that you're mortal?
I'm a human, and from what I know, when human die, they no longer are a part of my world. So I can only assume, when I die, then the plane of existence we live now, I will no longer be a part of.

There may be something else, but since I currently don't know of anything else, I can't assume that there is anything else.

Just like the time before we were born, there was nothing, or nothing that I can remember at least, then it will be like that.
>>
>>17282794
Your faggotry is showing...
>>
Since we're kind of on a similar subject, I have a question that I've always wondered.

So here it is, where does everything we do come from?

Let me explain a bit more. When I lift my hand in the air, it's because I want to, my brain sends a thought/signal to my muscles to make them lift my hand.. so.. where does that inital signal come from? Is it just a reaction from my surroundings? (Like my arm itches, becauses of a fabric rubbing agianst it, then that was the spark that made me lift my arm? since my brain picked up a signal from my skin, that was touching the fabric?)

---

Another relevent thought, What is the spark that we call life? What is making my body move and react to the world around it? Since matter cannot be created or destroyed, that little spark of life has to be some sort of matter right?

What is the difference from a body that is alive, and a body that is dead? MAtter wise, it's all the same, yes? HOwever the body that is alive obviously has something that the dead body doesn't.. You cannot make a dead body alive again, but you CAN make an alive body dead. So it's something that you can take away, but not something you can give, and when a baby is born, it's just a part of another previously living body. It's the same thing as growing a flower, cutting one of the leaves off, and then that leaf then is planted and continues to grow.

I may not be making any sense because I haven't studied any of this, and I'm probably using the words, but this is just something I often think about.
>>
>>17282912
>I don't know if that stuff will make me happy, but I know I'm not happy right now
If you don't know if it'll make you happy then it probably won't. I've no idea why, but for some reason we all seem to have the ability to know what makes us happy and what doesn't. I don't know how to tell you how to find what's likely to actually make you happy, but if it just seems like it'd be nice because it seems nice for other people, then it's probably not what you'll truly enjoy.

>Am I wrong for thinking like this
No, never. There are perfectly normal thoughts and it doesn't have to mean depression. Most people do need a real human connection with someone to keep themselves happy and healthy, so you're not entirely out of the ball park yet but it's not wrong to have these thoughts and these doubts. It's normal, if not throughout history, then for the modern age it certainly is common.

>>17282922
Yes I know. It doesn't matter to me because I their filters work the same way in either case. It's the message and the timing of the message that matters to me, not hitting an actual spook.

>>17282920
That's a healthy perspective, provided it really is your own. If it isn't, then we may have spiritual issues to work out before you'll have a chance at finding happiness. I avoid taking thing spiritually if I can because I know that "lacking" spirituality can be far more damaging to your "spirit" than the benefit of having it would be if you can "reach" it.

The problem is, most people will hear that and tell you that you're hopeless because you don't believe in another form of life. That's wrong; they're the ones that are hopeless about the issue. They need to believe in it for their own reasons and they can be harsh in giving up on you when you don't share the same feelings. Nevertheless, your logic is completely valid.

But it is only logic.
>>
>>17282938
>Since matter cannot be created or destroyed, that little spark of life has to be some sort of matter right?
You lost me there. I don't see any logic in that. It's a misapplication of either physics or thermodynamics.
>>
>>17282938
Everyone does. It's the great mystery of life and I don't think they're ever be a truly satisfactory way to explain it. Let the poets romanticize it, because it means as much or more that way then it could any other way.
>>
>>17282938
Two things, I can go on a lot longer than this but it's late.

One, your brain doesn't stop thinking in between thoughts and doesn't suddenly turn off because you're not actively aware of it. Your impulse to lift your arm is a direct result of whatever had made you aware of your arm and the desire to lift it. Like to make that post you did, for example, you did it for a reason like any conscious effort you do.

Two, it's energy. Matter and energy are the two things. The reason you can't bring a dead body back to life isn't magic, it's because the lack of energy making your shit active makes your cells unable to gain energy and sustain themselves so they burst and die and you rot. If there were a way to perfectly halt this process, like cryogenics, sure a dead man could be brought back. But the problem is UNpreserving someone without completely fucking ruining the body. Look more into thermodynamics and energy, the thing you should be scared about and thinking about existentially is this:

Universal Entropy
>>
>>17282957
>These are perfectly normal thoughts
>>
>>17282994
>Universal Entropy
They're already thinking about that and it's giving them depression. Depression doesn't create any sort of productive conversation or effort; it ceases it.

And for the last goddamn time, nobody gives a shit about your bioimmortality agenda.
>>
>>17282994
>Universal Entropy
That IS scary, but I will never experience, so there is nothing to be afraid of for ME.

Just like many thing, I will NEVER have to worry about a lot of things happening to me, that's why I'm not afraid of them.
>>
>>17282667
Hi, OP. This probably belongs on /his/.

Just saiyan.
>>
>>17283010
>>>/adv/
How new are you anyway?
>>
>>17282912
>happy
That's good, pretty much everyone wants a variation of that, something that makes them happy.
>the rest
liked and desired, part of someone's life giving you importance... these things are 100% external, which doesn't make it automatically worse but it's unreliable and vague/unclear.
Now, are you sure you've never experienced happiness, not as a kid? Not as a teen?
If you've truly never found happiness, not the romanticized version, you must understand that it's completely subjective and it usually doesn't last. That's why so many people dedicate their lives in the pursuit of happiness in the first place;
The simple answer is as long as you're not happy, you should CHANGE something.
If you still fail to find happiness in anything, this may be already physiological and as such, you should seek a therapist.

No matter what, happiness is HEAVILY linked to close relationships, according to a recent study that spanned 75 years, so get close to people! It may be difficult in this case if you're sad/-ish, but if you reach out to family/close friends theres bound to be at least one person that's willing to support and care about you.
Don't lose hope anon, if life taught me anything yet, it's that it's all going to be okay and that IT GETS BETTER.
>>
“Evil is nothing but a word, an objectification where no objectification is necessary. Cast aside this notion of some external agency as the source of inconceivable inhumanity - the sad truth is our possession of an innate proclivity towards indifference, towards deliberate denial of mercy, towards disengaging all that is moral within us.
But if that is too dire , let's call it evil. And paint it with fire and venom."
-Steven Erikson (Toll the hounds, Malazan book of the fallen book 8)
>>
>>17283009
Why can't the rest of you motherfuckers take a page from this ESL son of a bitch

He knows exactly what is up
>>
>>17283021
>it usually doesn't last
True happiness is everlasting. Positive psychology is a real thing you know. It's ultimately a choice; if you want to be happy, go be happy. You don't need "stuff" to be happy, you can just be goddamn happy with yourself/your life/whatever. It USUALLY lasts for a long time, unlike passing moods. I think you meant to say a good mood doesn't usually put you in a better mood, but even being in a good mood has its own health-related self-maintaining elements to it.

>you should seek a therapist
Also disagree here. Seek companionship. Don't resort to trained professionals for friendship if you still have the will to live.
>>
>>17283026
You can argue that babies are the base level of morality for a human and even babies have the capacity to not be dickheads, have you read that study?

A stupid fucking baby has the capacity to, if it sees an adult struggle with a very basic thing like pretending to have trouble reaching a pencil on the ground, go over and give them the pencil

It's not a matter of defining evil it's a matter of being a douche
>>
>>17283032
This is neat aside from the "don't seek help" thing because that's fucking dumb if there's a chance that this person can have a hormonal imbalance in their brain.

But a question: if this happiness becomes your baseline feeling with nothing lower to put it into perspective, what happens?
>>
>>17283035
>have you read that study?
Think you belong on >>>/sci/
>>
>>17283038
>if there's a chance
You can't/won't be happy in life by refusing to take any chances. It's worth it to try to make friends and any competent psychiatrist is going to tell you the same thing. Psychology isn't a magic brain-fixing industry, it's a research field with a horrific history of inhuman practices and experiments. It's truly /x/-tier shit.
>>
>>17283047
Okay that's cool and everything, you read the word "chance" and based your post off that but here's the thing.

If this guy straight up, literally, medically has an imbalance of horemones in his brain he can very well be unable to feel happy or satisfied with shit. His body can pump out all sorts of endorphins but his brain might not be able to process them right. He very well may not have this kink in his brain, and if he doesn't then yeah it's entirely a socio-cultural thing he's got going on and should talk and make friends
>>
>>17283032
Buddy, I'm not sure you've read my post correctly, or perhaps I haven't worded it properly.
True happiness doesn't exist, yes it's a choice but sadly we're all human beings and staying positive and happy can at times be REALLY fucking hard; but take note: I am an adept of this way of thinking, I believe anyone can be happy in whatever circumstances if they really try but often it's hard and other than that, anon there didn't want JUST happiness, he needs to figure out a lot of things and 'forcing' this mentality on him won't really help him develop.

>therapist
dude have you not paid any attention? I've said it literally before that, that your ties to other people are the MVP's of anyone's happiness.
But it is a very real thing when one's brain dulls the effect of endorphines and I think I've been clear about this but: go to a therapist as a last resort, if you can't fix it yourself.
Try paying some more attention while reading next time, mmkay?
>>
>>17283054
I also wanted to point out that making friend isn't the same as not seeking help; it is. It's a better way to get help IMO, but I don't hold the medical industry in high regard. (Or the pharmaceutical industry, anyway, if they aren't the same thing.)
>>
>>17283073
>'forcing' this mentality on him won't really help him develop
That's what I've been trying to avoid. I just didn't want to let the connotation of "life is suffering" get away unchecked; I don't believe life is suffering for anyone, even me.

>it is a very real thing when
It's not, or it doesn't have to be. I'd rather not get into that issue because it tends toward needing a proper spiritual explanation, and I want to keep this discussion under materialist thinking if I can.
>>
>>17283032
Is this the same thing as saying "Fake it til you make it?"

I can go be happy right now, and walk around with a smile, and laughing at birds chirping, people will see me as happy, thus I am, but in truth I am not..

Is anyone truly happy?
>>
Just accept that nothing matters. You're not even a speck compared to the vastness of the universe. Terms like good and evil are meaningless because they'resimply human constructs as well as time, love or hate.

Nothing you do will be remembered, you will inevitably die and return to the void from where you came. Nothing is permanent, even protons eventually break up.

Live your short life to stimulate your senses as positively as possible. Seek joyful distraction from your unstoppable movement towards death but never forget that
nothing matters.
>>
>>17283088
Yes, true happiness exists. Or at least happiness does, anyway. The point isn't to show it or act like it but to decide that you want it. That's all. Without that, happiness doesn't usually come to us. Joy and elation do, but not "happiness" as such.
>>17283089
"Universe" is another meaningless "human" term.

...Which makes it a lot easier to be egocentric.
>>
>>17283089
What if I make a device that can destroy or alter a significant part of the universe. Then does all of a sudden "everything" matter?

Just because I can't control or have access to the entire ocean, doesn't mean I can't affect the lives of the pond I live in, and since techinically that is all I know and am around, it's a big deal.

Besides, I am at the center of the universe. When I walk forward, everything moves closer to me, and when I turn left, everything around me moves and changes to what I look at.

In my life, I am everything, and without me, my life is nothing.
>>
>>17283097
>Then does all of a sudden "everything" matter?
I like you.
>>
>>17283089
Does a grain of sand stop and think that nothing matters because it's so small and insignificant compared to the entire world?
[spoiler]No, because its a god damn grain of sand and is more than likely not sentient..[/spoiler]
>>
>>17282721
You misunderstand the purpose of philosophy.

Moral philosophy isn't about changing the World, but about understanding it, one's place in it, and behaving righteously.

Your choice of words implies a decent education, but your ultimate misunderstanding of such a basic concept makes it clear you're probably a moron.
>>
>>17282828
>increasing the overall happiness of humankind,

You can do this every time you step out of your front door, or post something on the internet.

Seriously. If all you every are is a bus driver or an unemployed guitar playing dropout, what you bring to the world in your interactions with people is what is important.
>>
>>17283530
*ever* are
>>
>>17283239
but if you understand that it is wrong, you must do whatever you can to change it.
Thread replies: 51
Thread images: 2
Thread DB ID: 474182



[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Home]

[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Home]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the shown content originated from that site. This means that 4Archive shows their content, archived. If you need information for a Poster - contact them.
If a post contains personal/copyrighted/illegal content, then use the post's [Report] link! If a post is not removed within 24h contact me at [email protected] with the post's information.