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Fake TCG General #8
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You are currently reading a thread in /vp/ - Pokemon

Thread replies: 101
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Previous Thread: >>24893872

At the moment, we are testing our first cube using LackeyCCG. Join in on the fun!
http://www.lackeyccg.com/downloads.html
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/145755856/pokemon/updatelist.txt (paste into Lackey)

Welcome to the /vp/ fake TCG set general. we are creating a fake TCG set featuring real Pokemon (no meme cards) in the spirit of the actual game. Anyone's welcome to join!

>Can I contribute?
Absolutely. Although the Pokemon are mostly decided, we're still looking for Trainer and Special Energy card designs. Either make a mockup (Resources section -> Card creating sites), or just post the card's text. We also want artists and testers on LackeyCCG.

>What should I know before contributing?
This set is meant to be a stand-alone series, not to interact with any existing metagame. The general power scale is similar to base set/Neo (read the Tip and tricks section). Our main goal is that every Pokemon, including evolving basics, serve a purpose. For example, even Pokemon like Caterpie should have an effect like searching for more Caterpie or drawing a card, rather than simply "C - Tackle 10".

>Are these cards final?
No. We are currently testing cards to determine which cards will make the cut. Some cards will be modified for balance reasons, while others will likely need to be omitted completely. Once the cards are finalized, they will be remade using a unified template and given proper artwork (all artwork on mock-ups in this thread are assumed to be placeholders unless otherwise specified). Effect wording will also be cleaned up for the final draft.

RESOURCES:
>Pastebin with useful links:
http://pastebin.com/Pbczhu1v

>Tips and tricks:
http://pastebin.com/wvkMNzeq

>Imgur for recent threads:
http://vptcgimgur.imgur.com/
>>
3st
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>>24951280
That looks awful. Why not make it in tabletop sim and have comfy chairs and tables?
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>>24951934

It's free and it's functional.
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>>24952052
and it IS a tabletop sim
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Any cards need fixing right now?
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>>24951934
The number of people testing is small enough without a 20 dollar pricetag.
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>>24951934
Just apply a skin to the program if you want chairs and tables that badly. There are plenty of them out there.
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>>24952277

We are not entirely sure at the moment. We need more testers/people looking at our current cards to determine this.

On a side note, I think I'll go through basics/stage 1s with multiple versions and see if I can consolidate them into a final version. For reference, this Chikorita. I combined Chikoritas 2 and 3 into a Chikorita that switches in and traps opposing Pokemon with high retreat costs. Now it has a coherent design and the other 2 Chikoritas can be removed. I think that by doing this I can eliminate a lot of clutter, reduce the amount of variables for testing final evolutions, and improve adhesion to our set's design philosophy (every card has a purpose). Thoughts?
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>>24953585
It's pretty good, honestly.
>>
>>24953585

Thanks.

I created a Bayleef too. After reviewing all current versions of Bayleef and Meganium, I decided that the main themes present were: Healing, Special Conditions, and recycling. I chose to focus on Special Conditions, specifically Burn, because it seemed the most open-ended. I wanted to make sure that it could evolve into either Meganium (healer or sleeper) without conflicting with their designs, and I wanted to make sure that it didn't overwhelm its evolution damage-wise like Pepper Up or Razor Vines Bayleef do. Adding this Burn ability to Bayleef gives Meganium (and Dragalge/Honchkrow) a reliable method for inflicting Burn and adding a source of damage between turns.
>>
It just combines the two, but nerfs Burrow so its effect can't be used if Nincada came into play through its Ability. It serves its purpose as 1) bench fodder and 2) a branch into its supportive evolutions.
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More combination, and buffs Shroomish 2's ability to not require a KO.
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Another combination. I'll wait for more feedback on these before creating more.
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>>24953905
I think I'll join you, but these have been very good so far. They're balanced and give the Basics something more to do.
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>>24953585
Good synergy.

>>24953792
This will only work if you play Nincada from your hand onto your Bench and then Rereat into it. It won't work if you start the game with it as your Active. Not great.

>>24953846
You missed the point of the Ability. It conserved Energy so you could eventually get to Breloom with your Energy intact. Its purpose wasn't just to create more bodies.

>>24953905
I don't really care about Snip, but change the first attack back to the 10 damage total guard version. The ability to also protect Krabby from spread attacks from Kingdra and Espeon was worth more than 10 damage.
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>>24956985
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Remade Skrelp. I shifted Camouflage to be C so I could boost Poison Tail's damage output. I'm hesistant to give Skrelp much more just because it has guaranteed damage evasion.
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New Litwick. Lampent and Chandelure focus on Special Conditions and messing with the opponent's hand. As a result, I wanted to make Litwick have a useful supportive ability that increases the strength of hand disruption strategies. The main problem that hand disruption strategies have is that they (1) are slow (multiple turns of low damage) and (2) die to hand refresh supporters. I think that adding a heal to Litwick addresses the (1) issue, and I would rather not address (2) because that is the only realistic counter to the strategy.

That being said, I wanted to be careful to not make the healing overwhelming or generic because this set already has an overwhelming amount of healers such as Meloetta, Shuckle, and Potion. I wanted Litwick to be viable support for hand disruption decks only.
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>>24958652
A fair try but we already have three Litwicks and two of them are already good enough.

>>24957463
Better. Does Shroomish require that you move all its Energy to your Bench even if you don't want to?

>>24958256
I like this one better.
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>>24959257

>Litwick
This Litwick would replace the other two. Litwick 1 had a Paralyze attack and a Litwick searcher. Litwick 2 had a bench attack and a draw power attack. Neither of those filled a unique "niche" or fit in with the theme of Lantern/Chandelure (hand disruption, sustained special conditions)

>Shroomish
It is mandatory. My reasoning is that it might be a little silly to have guaranteed attacks (20 & Poison) on top of a guaranteed set-up for Breloom or another Shroomish.

>Skrelp
Thanks.

Here is my proposed Lampent merger. It replicates the sleep/Hex theme from Lampent 1, but adds in the hand disruption from Lampent 2. The opponent is given the choice to risk 50 damage or discard 2 cards to remove the Sleep. This Lampent could also be used as a generic Full Heal in other decks.
>>
We'll be testing on Thursday and Friday evening from sunset on the East Coast of the United States to sunset on the West Coast. If that's not specific enough, be there tomorrow night.
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>>24958652
I'm down to replace the Litwick with the overcosted recruitment effect.
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Murkrow replacement. The first attack is a generic recruiter that supports Honchkrow 2 and feeds into Murkrow's 2nd attack. The 2nd attack is support for Honchkrow 1's Special Condition theme. Gratuity is also a stealth fedora pun.
>>
Remember that we're testing tonight folks. Keep Lackey open.

Can we have a poll for the three Arcanines? They step all over each other.
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>>24962475
Like a strawpoll?

Should we post the card images here or should it be held on Lackey?
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>>24959726
Gratuity is very bad. If the defending Pokémon is already Poisoned, it does only 10 damage for three energy. And there is no damaging or protecting move for one or two energy.

New Recruit costs you a turn, depends on a specific energy type and getting three Murkow on your bench is very difficult or even impossible when 1 Murkow has already fainted, evolved to Honchkrow. It also may be in your Prize cards.

Honchkrow 1 is okay, but this Murkrow is just terrible.

To keep Honchkrow's special condition theme, What about:

Murkow HP60
Ability: Scry - Before your Draw Phase, if Murkrow is your Active Pokémon, before you look at the top card of your deck. You may put that card on the bottom of your deck. [This ability makes it easier to find Honchkrow and other useful cards.]

(C) Scary Face - The Defending Pokémon is now Confused.
(D)(C) Drill Peck - 20

I hope, this card is not better than Dark Explorers' Sableye.
>>
I'm on Lackey, has it not started yet?
>>
I just got back home for the evening, so I'll keep Lackey open.

>>24959726
What if I just bumped Gratuity's requirements down by 1 Murkrow and boosted the damage by 10?
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>>24962475

http://strawpoll.me/6478178

This fine?
>>
LACKEY TESTING HAS NOW OFFICIALLY STARTED. GET TO IT.

>>24963876
This is too generic and barely meshes with any of the Honchkrows we have.
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>>24964789
I'm not a fan of "flip for immunity" but it looks like Version 3 is winning. Understandable since it has the best attacks.
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>>24964789
Extremespeed 2 is so wordy but it offers the most gameplay. Flare Blitz 3 is obviously the only worthwhile one.
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Grudge Chandelure is still not worth running. Replace it with the Pain Split one.
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>>24964789
>>24965268
>>24965273

Just a reminder that these cards aren't set in stone and elements can be combined from the different Arcanines if the current versions are uninteresting or unviable.
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2 people on Lackey.. Crashed and burned.
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Steelix's first attack should do 30 and its second attack should do 60. 90 is way too high.
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LackeyAnon, I remember you saying you would be randomly switching out items and stuff with each update. Are you going to do that this week? I'm just asking because if you aren't going to I'll go ahead and make card images for the items in the plugin at the moment.
>>
Arceus's second attack is totally useless since there's only Mason to give it tributes
>>
>CARD
Farfetch'd (post-update)
>ISSUE
Overpowered
>DETAILS
Excessively powerful attack, permanently cripples Evolutions with no setup whatsoever. Not balanced out by Ability since only Rod can retrieve the discarded Pokemon.
>RECOMMENDATION
Rework the attack to disable Evolved Pokemon in a less terminal way.
>>
>>24965475
Just use Ho-Oh.
>>
Changelist:

>Seadra's Surf has been removed
>Drapion's Ability has been replaced by the defensive P component of its attack and capped at 30
>Meloetta's ability has been nerfed again
>Several Trainers have been removed, including every Stadium
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>>24968340
And as for what's left:


Outstanding:
OP
>Armaldo's HP is too high for its damage
>Berry Press Shuckle's healing is too cheap and reliable. Sound familiar?

UP
>Regirock's Rock Toss is too weak
>Teamwork Rotom is not worth swinging with

UNCLEAR
>Tyrogue's Scamper still makes no sense
>Guardian Klefki returns itself to the hand
>The timing on which Happy Meloetta activates is unclear
>What happens when Slakoth or the target switches?


SLATED FOR REPLACEMENT
>Kingler (Guillotine)
>Both Wailords
>Either Topple Sudowoodo or Rock Smash Sudowoodo
>Sword Aegislash
>Evolution Attack Eevee


MINOR ERRORS
>Wailmer's Blubber
>Glaceon's Chilly Breath
>Larvitar's Acupressure
>Magnezone is balanced as a Basic
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>>24968350
I don't like any of the eyy woodies honestly. They seem way to situational.

Also do you think Meganium 1's HP is too high at 120?
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>>24968350
> >Guardian Klefki returns itself to the hand
That wording is wrong. "This card" means the tool card, which is discarded from Klefki.
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>>24968350
Some supplement:

OP
>Rotom Fan V2: no weakness, no retreat costs, very strong move and too much HP
>Shedinja V2

UP
>Rotom Mow V1: Hyper Cutter is too weak
>Scyther: bad synergy between G and M energy on evolution

Rebalancing suggestions
>Rotom Mow V1: Hyper Cutter should do 10 damage
>Rotom Fan V2: Change Copter Chop's damage to 20, lower Rotom's HP to 60
>Regirock: change Rock Toss' damage to 20 and remove its effect.
>Scyther: Change Slash from GGC to CCC
>Shedinja V2: Decrease HP to 40
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>>24968350
>>Magnezone is balanced as a Basic
I created this Magnezone and yes, it is a Basic. I tried to rebalance it. What do you think?
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>>24969021
sorry, forgot the pic
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>>24969028
It doesn't specify which Energy it converts to M. Does it convert them everywhere, even in the discard pile?
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>>24968560
Please refer to Pokemon by their attacks. I don't have Lackey open all the time to check which one is which.
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>>24969165
Electromagnetism does not "convert" the card. The ability only changes, which kind of Energy is *provided* by Basic M Energy cards.
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>>24969319
Oh. Then it's fine as a splashable in Metal decks, though kinda pointless.
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We have a problem with the wording of Powerrun. What will happen, if you have no Pokémon on your bench?
>>
Victini (Trainer card) also misses the Shuffle phrase.
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>>24969427
or if all Pokémon already have a tool attached?
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>>24969436
We've deliberately excluded it from our cards because it's assumed that everyone remembers that basic game rule.
>>24969427
That's not a problem, just rulings knowledge.

As far as I know you can't activate it if you don't have at least one target for each of its effects.
>>
Also Meganium (Breath of Life, Herbal Drain) should be dialed down in HP (currently at 120, should be reduced by 20 at least) and Herbal Drain should remove 2 damage counters.
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>>24965452
I'm just going to make judgement calls on Trainer cards as I see fit. Sometimes I'll rotate them, sometimes I won't. Since the poll was a goddamn disaster, if there's a specific Trainer card you really want to see tested, just post an argument for it here. Otherwise I'll just pick whatever.
>>24969436
Just use common sense with the text-only cards. I half-assed them. If they're deemed to be something people actually want in the set, we can fix the wordings.
>>24969427
That's on me. IIRC, the original text specified that both the tool and the energy got discarded if you didn't meet the criteria. You must have both a Pokemon you can attach a tool to and a separate Pokemon you can attach an energy to.

Speaking of which, how are the text-only cards?
>>
Murkrow's New Recruit is to expensive. (C) would be fine, but (D)(C) for a Call of Family is terrible.
>>
>>24969664
Honchkrow's Pack attack is also terrible. It should be changed to 20+ 10x
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>>24969675
Both Murkrow and Litwick have overcosted recruitment abilities. Instead of making them cheaper, why not make them achieve something?
>>
Literally every deck runs 4 Storage Keys.
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>>24969905
Why? I run four copies of Pain.
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Testing begins in four hours. Be there or be asleep.
>>
Awesome Wave Wiggly and Berry Juicer Shuckle are fun to use in their respective decks.

Swarm Scyther's attack is too weak though: GGC for an attack that does 40 at most with no other benefit? I suggest just GC.
>>
>>24959726
>>24963876

I adjusted the new Murkrow again.
>>
Squirtle (stadium)
>>
Don't Ever Stop
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Last
>>
Compact Storage Key
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Window Pain

Sorry if this is kind of spammy.
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Exxon
>>
Red Red Wine
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Triple Energy Removal
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Aquamarine
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Horse of House
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>>24970815
Scyther's attack serves no purpose since its evolutions are so good by comparison. Suggest a new attack entirely.
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Napkin
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Powerun
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Victini
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Wash
>>
COMMENCE TESTING

CURRENTLY EXCLUDED:
Farfetch'd
Guillotine Kingler
Wailord
Sword Aegislash
>>
Assistance Sylveon is still utterly worthless.
>>
After testing, changes to be made:
>Forest Song Celebi deleted for being a balance nightmare
>Poison Drain Breloom's damage reduced to 30 + 20, healing reduced to 20
>Team Player Gallade and Gardevoir's second attacks now count Kirlia, Gallade, and Gardevoir when calculating damage
>Nerf Battle Armor Tyranitar to 90 HP. Damage is now 40+. Effect now increases damage to 80 if Tyranitar has 30 HP or less remaining.
>Clarify that Window Pain only increases damage to the Active
>Nerf Resistance of Ralts, Kirlia to -20
>>
>>24971432
>Doesn't know how to play mill decks.
>>
Idea for a trainer card.

Item - Arbitrary Code (Referring to the arbitrary code execution exploits in gen 1 games)

Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Your opponent chooses one. Put it into your hand. Then, you choose one of the remaining cards and discard it. Shuffle the other cards back into your deck.
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>>24972492
We're in testing. From my experience testing, Sylveon's forced draw doesn't achieve anything. It just makes the opponent's deck more consistent. Most deckouts have been due to players running out of resources to get around a tank or a swarm of low-cost Pokemon they have a Weakness against.
>>
>>24972503
Arbitrary Code is even worse then Acro Bike.

What about the following effect:
Item
Reveal the top 3 cards of yor deck. You opponent chooses one. Move that card to your Lost Zone. Put the other two cards in your hand.
>>
>>24974382
I think an overall problem with the format is that everything is too tanky for its own good. Anything with any sort of self-healing is nearly indestructible. This wouldn't be a problem if not for the fact that they're "balanced" by making them do decent damage instead of good damage, rather than a more significant trade-off.
>>
Yesterday I played with a Steel/Fire deck against a Water/Poison deck. Ferrothorn and Dragalge are very well balanced an it was a fair match.
>>
>>24974416
>Steel
>Poison
I meant Metal and Psychic ...
>>
>>24974405
Yes, especially the Fairies are too bulky. Darkness resistance and healing attacks is too strong
>>
>>24974405
It doesn't help that everyone is terrified of making cards with less than 80 HP. Stage 1 Pokemon are particularly guilty. You've got things like 90 HP Weaviles, 90 HP Kinglers, and 100 HP Ninetales. Nearly every unevolving basic has 70-80 HP. Very few Stage 2 Pokemon have less than 100 HP, while there are loads of them who have 120.

Everyone wants to push the cards they like to the higher end of the HP scale, rather than averaging them out.
>>
>>24969327
But I'd still prefer the Basic Pokémon version since a Stage 2 is not really "splashable".
>>
>>24974447
Evolving a Basic Pokémon should be as strong as a combination of Full Heal, Potion and PlusPower. The Full Heal is implicit, so +20 max HP and slightly stronger moves, but also more energy costs and retreat costs are fine. Evolving a Stage I should be slightly stronger than evolving a Basic, because it takes more time to setup and it is more difficult to find the Stage II mon.
>>
>>24974452
Yes I would also keep it as a Basic. It is not uncommon that evolved Pokémon have a Basic card and it makes absolutely sense for this kind of ability (and also flavorwise).
>>
>>24974500
We can test both and decide later. But I am going to bed now. It's late in Sweden.
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>>24969028
Just keep the old Basic Pokémon version. It worked like a charm in my Aggron deck.
>>
>>24974500
>It is not uncommon that evolved Pokémon have a Basic card
Only when they have some sort of gimmick attached.
>>
>>24974452
Magneton has an Ability that supports any deck. The Magnet line isn't worthless while you're waiting to reach Magnezone, and having a Pokemon that can support two Types is good. More variety.

>>24974664
No. Move the stats to another Pokemon or balance it as a Stage 2. No EXceptions will be made to evolution rules.
>>
>>24974416
I believe it was Ferrothorn 1 (Leech Live/Impale) and Dragalge 3 (Venodraw/Jet-Black Smoke).
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Thread DB ID: 398785



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