Wargames General /wgg/

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>Phase C

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actual non meme discord
https://discord.gg/watM75d

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>left the meme discord in the OP

you fucked up son

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>>175781663
>Instantly ragequits when killed by cheap ass marauders.

>>175781712
Mowas

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xth for fuck meme divisions we want Poles

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>>175781712
>>175781939

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>>175782096
Fuck Poles. We want GUARDS!

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fuck the french

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>Nazis
>In this thread

This is an official alliance thread. Please leave.

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>>175782269
I can settle for Guards. I just want a decent (read not equipped by Americans) armored division.

WHY NERF THE SCOTS FUCK

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>was really looking forward to the 101st
>realize they're not french and thus haven't mastered the usage and organic deployment of american equipment

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>tfw you remember you forgot to buy any arty halfway into the match, but you're somehow still winning

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>>175782172
The only problem is that discord is ded despite it being better

>>175782545
I like you anon I'd settle for Poles too

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Nth for Assault Rangers reign supreme on the battlefield.

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>>175782464
>meanwhile in reality

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>wait for literally 40 mins for people to not quit in the fucking lobby
>dude quits in the fucking deploy phase

>>175782580
But they will have M10s in Phase C :^).

>>175783154
>playing Men of War
>spend 30 minutes waiting for game to fill up
>spend 10 minutes loading
>game starts
>host immediately ends it
>"I dont play night maps"
>everybody quits

>>175783154
Don't play 10v10 and you wont have to deal with that shit as bad.

>>175783113
It's funny because the Nazi here is a POW, guy got rekd hard like... well I guess the Nazis at the end of the day.

say what you will about wargame, but it never has that feeling of impotency and helplessness that's called phase C as allies.

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>>175783441
Found the grandson of a V-2 assembly slave

>>175783407
It was a fucking 3v3

>>175783686
>Bragging about an army that literally fled in desperation to surrender by the hundreds of thousands to Americans and Bongers so they wouldn't get ass-raped by slavs.

>>175781712
Do people actually micro individual soldiers?

>>175783982
>getting your ass kicked by German players so badly you have to fantasize about being a GI on /wgg/

>>"add prototype tanks for the allies" lol no i wont add that for balancing the years, if i did they would only be available in All or postwar and is not a serious unit.
meanwhile he leaves the Maus in the game. Literally FUCK ROBZ

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>>175783557
>he doesn't have a 17-pdr in every treeline

>>175784185
If you don't play shitty ''''realism'''' mods, then yes, it's mandatory at anything other than shitter skill levels.

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>>175784232
>Anyone getting their ass kicked by german mains
Yeah I'm sure that's why there's so much crying for Allied nerfs since the beta released. Wehraboos are almost all universally fucking terrible in every RTS they crop up in with their ebin avatars of kraut officers and XxXRommel_SS_DivisionXxX name tags.

>>175784185
I usually move them around in groups of 2-4, in both vanilla and robz

When I am defending I set up each soldier individually though

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>Allies get nerfed
>Axis gets buffed
Was this necessary

>>175783154
There's Quick Play now

>>175784798
Allies got super buffed with France anon! Everyone else had to be nerfed to compensate ))))))))))))))))))))))))))

>>175784942
Is it actually good? Fuck lobby systems

So, how about that turret traverse tweaks? Does that only affect the Panther, Pz IVJ and M10, or is it a global nerf and those three just got nerfed harder? Is flanking finally possible?

Assault Squad 1 or 2???

>>175785483
2

>>175785483
1 is dead

>>175785281
the king tiger definitely seems to turn slow as fuck, doing a 180 to shoot a new target takes forever

I haven't paid much attention to other tanks since the patch yet

>>175785635
noice

How do we Punish Eugen for their incompetence?

Why nerf the 15th Scots

>>175786887
Because fuck u, hon hon hon time

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How can you support the Nazis after knowing that they did this to innocent jews?

>Humber Mk.3's BESA 15mm MG AP removed, suppression increased to be slightly higher than .50 cal
Is that the main gun of the armoured car that Recce come in?

>Tri-polsten damage discrepancy with other 20mm fixed
This was left out in the patch notes, confirmed by MadMat

>>175787583
yep

because why should anyone but germans get RD-tier spammable fire support

>>175787801
The cherry on the top of the Scottish trash can.

>>175784942
one that's dead.

>>175784942
Is there still Ranked or did it replace it?

>>175787583
>>175787801
I thought the French liked the Scots. Rip 15th

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>>175788384

>>175784942
pointless as long as the lobby system exists and allows shitters to bypass the matchmaker

also it allows mirrored games el oh el

SOMEBODY PLAY BLACK SEA WITH ME REEEEE

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>>175788446
>2-inch mortar's range reduced from 900 to 700m

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>>175789225

>>175787583
Mine still has ap

>>175789225
>Literally less range than some machine guns
HON

>>175789225
cant have Frnech division feeling inferior to anybody now can we?

>>175790154
Be thankful they're not giving it it's effective range IRL which is like 500 metres

>>175789881
it's in red text in the patch notes, meaning they were working on it but were too busy croaking to finish it in time for the patch

so don't worry, this highly-requested and necessary change will be coming in a hotfix ASAP

>>175790417
Well it is supposed to be in 3 man team per platoon. Not a 70pt Bren

>>175790154
not eugen's fault it was shit

>>175784540
>XxXRommel_SS_DivisionXxX
It made even funnier once you realise that Rommel kept fucking the African Theather because of his own ego ala a german Patton, only without the odds being absurdly stacked in his favor.

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Wehraboo on the topic of the KT having 19AV and the Jimbo having 21

>>175790417
Well machine guns don't typically engage targets at 500 friggin meters to begin with so at least that makes sense IRL.

>>175791074
They should have given it 12 armor for that shit turret.

>>175791074
They just cant stand it if they don't get their way

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(Banned)

Is there a spectate mode in SD? I want to watch a live match or two before I start playing because I fucking sucked at EE and RD

>>175791285
hon

>>175791148
it is impossible for them to "get their way" if the game is anything short of literal nazi ubermensch propaganda

seriously, this last patch was primarily allied nerfs and they still can't quit bitching. problem is, eugene doesn't realize this at all

>>175791285
HON HON HON

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>>175791356
nyet
meaning "not yet"
but maybe at release, alexis said they want to add spectator (which was btw announced for ALB before the release if my memory serves me well)

>>175791074
Did he miss the fact that it has the shitty Porsche turret?

>>175791763
Bummer. I really want to get not shit at these games, but watching a replay on youtube is never like spectating a live game unfortunately.

>>175791849
Do you expect these people to know things like that?

>>175791849
But muh JIMBO is a shitty SHERMAN with SHITTY AMERICAN steel welded to the front. FIX IT NOW.

>>175791948
>SHITTY AMERICAN steel
Please tell me that no one honestly believes that American steel is shit pls

>>175792025
It depends on how much mental gymnastics you do.

>>175792025
>>175792159
It's wehraboo mental gymnastics

>>175791910
I dunno, maybe? What's the point of being a wehraboo if you don't even jerk off to armor schematics?

>>175792025
>not folder 666 billion times

ITS SHIT!

>>175792284
who needs armor schematics when History Channel tells you the Konigstiger was untouchable?

>>175792025
Uhh but German enginneering produced SUPERIOR ARYAN TIGER STEEL

American wwas mass produced plastic shit while german crafstemen made the best steel on the planet

>>175792421
>SUPERIOR ARYAN TIGER STEEL

it was actually KRUPP STAHL (you don't need to add SUPERIOR or ARYAN because it's obvious)

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Bought the game last night, installed this morning. I've played for the past two hours as the 15th. I am ready to start doing some 3v3. This is my first deck. I really like mortars. So far, I've had trouble getting tanks to do more than break even in terms of cost. What else to do?

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rev up those refunds

>>175791102
Depends on the gun. MGs in proper mounts could effectively engage out to 2500 meters in the right conditions.

Assuming I'm remembering correctly.

>>175793130
wew

>>175793036
refund

>>175793130
*respectfully disagrees*

>>175793209
The problem isn't the gun. The problem is that a human being with finite vision is operating it. Short of you being in a flat, open desert, I doubt you could even accurately pick out a bren carrier at 500m from it's surroundings, let alone through iron sights on a rifle or machine gun.

>>175793130
Respectfully Disagree x 1

Only 1 armor isnt enough for both gameplay and realism reasons. It should at the very least by +2 all around

>>175793130
>Bfw Panther doesn't have 13AV despite having the shot trap

>>175781369

Updated Graviteam Tactics Mius front Downloads pastebin:
https://pastebin.com/zje8tc0D

Please use this one in each new thread from now on.

>>175794005
Nice keylogger faggot

>>175793527
You are aware optics and stabilizing mounts exist specifically to combat those issues, yeah? Also 500 meters is fairly short for anything that isn't an infantry rifle - besides machine guns don't owe their effectiveness purely to accuracy. If you shoot loads of ammunition in the general vicinity of the thing you want to hit you just might graze it.

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>wheraboos

>>175793130
>instead of nerfing the BefPanther to meet the PantherD's values, we buffed the D and G up to it instead
so this....is the power....of the alt-right

>>175794173
Did you even look at it?

It's literally the same paste bin plus instructions on how to change the language of GTMF back to English after updating the game since doing that conventional notepad doesn't work.

The DOWNLOAD LINKS ARE STILL THE SAME!!!

I swear to God, this fucking autism in 4chan where people just try to insult others and be smart asses for no good reason whatsoever

>>175795053
You are free to leave at any time.

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>tfw your country's leader gives all the green troops the good gear.

>>175795190
How old are you?

>>175793036
Tanks aren't really your forte as the 15th, if you're breaking even you're doing well.
Spamming 17lb AT guns is really your answer to enemy armour.
- Drop one of those cards of PIATs for wolverines or more 17lbers
- Drop the Shermans, get more Challengers, maybe even a phase B one at one per card.

If you struggle against vehicles in the early game, get the 2 star 6lber, stick a command dingo by it and watch it clean house.

>>175795374
9 and a half, why?

>>175795374
How old are you?

You're complaining about a community that you don't have to belong to. If you don't like the community and what they do why stay?

Seriously. You are free to leave at any time if you don't like 4chan.

>>175795519
nah, he's just complaining about you :^)

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what game has the best/most realistic tank to tank battles?

>>175795767
Combat Mission, Steel Fury or whatever the fuck it was called, Graviteam tactics if you dont mind not having control of your tanks because once you try to give them more than basic move orders they manage to end up on their side in the bahamas

>>175795767
Steel Beasts

>>175795767
HoI4

>>175795767
War Thunder.
It is frequently used as a scientific proof in online discussions on very respectable websites.

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>"I have to go eat dinner, sorry"
>"Romel's Ghost has quit the game"

What did he mean by this

>>175796554
Even the dead have to eat Anon.

Show some respect.

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>>175796528

>>175796554
>ugh school in a few minutes :/
>[SS-Division Adolf Hitler] XxWARGAMERxX 1488 has disconnected

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>>175796554
>>175796617
>>175796767
I'm not even joking

>>175781369
Is there an option to turn off the ruse style unit resizing that's locked to the zoom level in steel division?

>>175797053
Yes

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>>175795418
The lack of infantry with AT weapons bothers me something fierce.

>>175797104
Sold.

>no land matress for UK

>>175797220
Your command teams have them.

>>175796554
even rommel needed his chicken tendies, anon

>>175797220
Why are you not filling your infantry tab?

>>175797583
I will give five baskets of haggis to the man who kills a KT with a PIAT team and/or greyhound.

>>175797220
less AA, more rifles

>>175797220
less supply and AA, more infantry

with the extra cards you can probably take some rifles with stars

>>175797278
Didn't enter service until November sadly.

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>>175797025

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fresh OC by me

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r8

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original content coming through

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>>175798206
wew, dont steal my OC memes please

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Fresh oc fellas

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Fresh OC

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>>175798374
>British people
>allowed to own guns

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>>175798468
>>175798462
>>175798359
delete this

>>175798353
How do people play Scots without the 2in Carriers? I'm still really new but it seems like the ability to call down HE/smoke from a (kinda) mobile platform is too useful to pass up.

>>175798353
recce + MMG carrier > recce + MG jeep

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>tfw i learnt how to play luftlande

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>>175798480
watch your mouth kid

>>175798723
I used to have them but now that they're only 700m I wonder if I should even bother anymore.

Oh and I dropped the Bren team in favor of more rifles.

>>175798353
I would take the Recce in MMG carrier from A. You get them earlier and in a better vehicle. It might just be me but I generally take 4 cards of Recon but thats down to you.

I would probably remove the Phase B unvetted riflemen. I think you'll have enough with the rest already. Is there any point in the Phase B Rifle Leader? You're paying 15 points for a stuart you're unlikely to really use. I usually take 2 cards of the universal carrier incarnation.

Is there a reason you have rejected the Tiffy? Rockets and 20mm cannons are your friend If for no other reason that making the Germans shit themselves and run

>>175798353
MMG carriers

Drop your recce off in a bush somewhere then drive them around the map dicking on everything.

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>>175799249
>>175799260
Kys!

>>175799415
>Vehicle-mounted Bren gun's power reduced
>Universal Carrier's frontal armor reduced from 2 to 1
eugene says stop having fun

>>175799876
>Vehicle-mounted Bren gun's power reduced

What?

Don't you mean the 15mm BESA?

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>x has joined
>x has left

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>>175799260
>>175798886
>>175799415
Better?

>>175799137
are lindybeige memes a thing?

do you have something about bren?

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>Wehraboos get several options for a 22AP gun
>Still complain about the Jumbo

>>175800059
>x has joined
>Axis team is full
>sits there for second before he realizes axis is full
>x has left

>>175800042
I copied that straight from the patch notes, they nerfed vehicle brens

if I remember correctly, the MMG carrier's bren went from 7 to 4 HE

>>175800357
Who cares about the MMGs Bren when its has a vickers?

>>175800560
>went from 2 armor, 7+8 HE
>to 1 armor, 4+8 HE
yeah who cares

>>175800357
>I copied that straight from the patch notes, they nerfed vehicle brens

Where? I can't find it.

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anime

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nice meme

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>>175801271
https://soundcloud.com/kore-wa-hentai/sets/tokyo-chopp-moe-shop-remix

I actually listen to this while playing sometimes

Now that the traverse rates have been fixed to historical levels, they need to add an option to turn off automatic hull orientation.

>trying to find deck guides to get better
>every single one only covers what they put in the deck and no mention as to why

>>175802043
Can't think of many situations where that would be needed, because the gun would get on target so much slower.

>>175802089
What division are you specifically looking for?

>>175802603
Literally any. This is my first foray into this type of game and I've lost both games I've played to the AI. I don't want to just cookie cutter some bullshit. I want to understand why. Perhaps I should shelve for release.

>>175802089
Figuring out the probable why yourself will make you learn more.

>>175803007
Not everyone learns best through trial and error anon

>>175803085
You can figure it out by analysis too.

>>175802528
Ingame, tank guns pre-aim at nearby targets even through LoS blockers.

So you can have, for example, an M10 poking past a hedge aiming to it's 3oclock, but then traversing its hull to face it's front AV. Because the M10's turret traverse is so slow, it triples the aimtime at least, when all I would want is to poke, shoot to my 3, then scoot back without traversing the hull.

>>175801050
it's under "fix" in the paradox plaza notes, second to last line

>>175802089
>>175802720
Sounds like you're looking for a gameplay guide, not a deck guide. Should be obvious what's fire support and what's infantry and what's AT, the issue is that you don't know what they're for.

>>175804571
Maybe, but all the gameplay guides are really basic tips that seem less than relevant to actually understand gameplay.

>>175802720
OK, first lesson: infantry is your bread and butter with most decks. Infantry wins. As NATO infantry would often say in previous war games, in the end it all comes down to the infantryman and his rifle.

Infantry excel in close quarters combat because all they've got is close quarters stuff - but infantry with anti-tank weapons dug into a town or a forest can and will do damage way beyond their point cost to vehicles and other infantry if you don't deal with them. If it can kill your tanks, chances are infantry can kill it - and infantry is cheaper.

Tanks however, can take a beating most infantry squads cannot. Things that infantry dies to like bitches (mg fire, artillery spamming) tanks can survive and kill.

Firesupport is good for killing either tanks or infantry depending on if it's HE or AP. Remember, everything has a counter.

>>175802720
It's hard to give advice really, considering I went into SD with like 700 hours in WG, and I've barely slept in ~4 days, so I'll defer you to some replays: http://sd-replays.net/replay-list

Put those under saved games > eugen systems > steeldivision, then watch in profile > replays.

Most people in those replays aren't going to be pros or anything, but watching a few of those could still give you some basic ideas on good deployment areas for each map, what to do with infantry, AT guns and mortars, etc. One tip though, because it's pretty important: give orders to your dudes before deployment finishes, or you'll be scrambling in the opener like it's wargame. F+click to fast move, shift+U to queue up unloading, etc.

>>175804803
https://honhonhonhon.wordpress.com/how-to-get-started-with-wargame/
I wrote this for wargame aiming to explain the entire set of tactics in detail. There's a lot of shit that's not relevant for SD like ATGM and planes, but the core tactics and unit types are the same. Hopefully it will click for you where the other guides didn't.

>>175805296
>>175804970
>>175804873
Thanks guys. I'll give it a shot.

>Many people say im biased towards germany cus they have sooo many units. But in real life aswell germany has so many different kinds of vehicles and units. The allies used standardized units and very many of that one unit like shermans and T-34s and didn't have all these different units that germany

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i shoulda stayed the fuck away from steam discussions

>>175806201
Jumbo for 400 points when?

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>>175783113
>meanwhile in actual reality

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>tfw made it into a Stealth17 Wargame video
>tfw I actually won and did well

feels good

>>175806592
>Stealth17 Wargame
no one cares harmtard

>>175805575
who are you quoting?

Also the allies had a plethora of different shit but the types of people who play this sort of game only have a surface interest in general.

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>>175806637
Thanks for watching the video!

>>175794320
have you ever fired a gun before? Not trying to be a dick, legitimate question. It would be absurd to try and engage a target at 500m through iron sights, machine gun or not. your sight picture would be pretty much non-existant and, at very best, you'd be engaging an extremely loose area of the target.

I mean it's WW2, it's not like you've got Elcans mounted on your Brownings and MG-42's. Small, low-to-the-ground vehicles like a Bren Carrier would be hard to spot in the first place, let alone engage with any real accuracy without simply wasting ammo; And that's not even taking in account how much you'd likely have to account for any sort of movement.

Heck, engagement ranges were usually pretty close in Iraq compared to, say, Afghanistan and it was STILL hard to really pick out a proper sight picture(If even possible) of human beings at anything more than maybe 75 meters. I just can't picture myself ever shooting at something like a Bren Carrier at 500 outside a range.

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>>175799137
>Too l8, m8
>The paddywagon is parked outside now, Bobbies circling in on your position like vultures. Faint cries of "What's all this then" barely noticable over the afternoon prayer from the 5 surrounding mosques.

>>175806201
>These are the people that make up the loud minority that go full-autism on the forums
>These are the people Eugen consistently goes to for balancing the game
>These are the people that got Scotts nerfed into the dirt twice.
Enjoy the Jumbo while it lasts. People have bitched about it since Day 1, even with a KT and pak 43 that can penetrate it at max range with high accuracy.

>>175806201
>fair balance : )
If you went by Armour value = Turret armour LOS / 10
Jumbo should be 18
And KT (P) should be 14
ayy

>flak 88
>high-AP 1200m AT gun on a turret mount with near-instant all-around traverse
>seriously, it's silly how fast it snaps to a target at any angle
>also carries HE, and with it snap targeting and high strength can actually defend itself from infantry
>is technically AA so it has high resistance to air attack
>on top of scaring away planes forever if you have 2 of them
people don't use these things enough

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>the french deck gets M4A3s with the same stats as 3rd Armored but for 20 points cheaper

haha this sure is a good joke Eugen im sure they will release a balance patch for the french deck ANY second now

pic unrelated

>>175810269
>wehraboo complaining about balance

>>175810119
They're expensive and easily countered by artillery, coupled with low availability. I rarely use them, myself; Any opponent paying attention can knock them out pretty quickly, and worse yet, you can't even hide them in hedgerows.

>fall for the """""sniper""""" meme in graviteam
>battle taking place in a town with myself on defense
>place them on a street with about ~300m clear sight-line down the road into the enemy controlled part of town, they're hiding in some bushes on either side of the road with orders to make sure no-one comes down the street
>after the battle, see ~7 dead enemies conveniently in a little pile where they tried to cross the road, about 250m down
Well, that was far less useless than expected. For a two man unit, that was a solid performance.

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>>175810603
>

>>175810269
the french don't need to be nerfed, they're fine

3AD needs to be buffed

>>175810876
nah dude there income is way to high for an armored deck
phase A is just spaming m8s and once B hits you buy all the shermans because you have like 500 points in reserve

>>175810748
>tfw want to try graviteam
>but whenever I play it i'm fucking clueless
please tell me muis front is more tard friendly

How do you deal with the crippling social anxiety and fear of disappointing your peers and finally play a multiplayer game?

>>175812418
stop being a loser and get friends

>>175812418
By not being bad

>>175811546
It was easier to understand for me. You'll need to read the guide posted in steam anyway.
Also, being able to tow your AT guns is quite nice.

>>175811546
the problem with starting to learn graviteam is that you might know what you want to do, but you have no idea how to do it. Mius is better to learn with since it's clearer on what your doing wrong (usually lines of communication)

>>175812418
remember that this game's players are all worthless cunts and screaming retards and whether they think you're shit or not has exactly 0 bearing on anything forever

Is Scotland kill?

Everything good they use has been nerfed. AVRE, 2in mortar, tri-polsten, 17 pounder, universal carrier, Bren guns, Recce Humber

They weren't that noticeably stronger than the Germans in the first place and got nerfed already.

>>175813010
You should play 2e DB instead.

>>175813213
I want to use British equipment. But these nerfs carry over to GAD and Commonwealth divisions too.

This is shit

>>175813010
they had to make sure 2e DB was no contest for best deck of allies all time

>>175813327
>>175813010
it was op and is now balanced

praise rommel

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>>175813010
German bias. Can't have any faction defeat Krupp Stahl

I see /wgg/ still can't agree if Eugen is biased towards Nazis or Frogs.

>>175807684
I mentioned optics and stabilizing mounts for a reason - they served to considerably extend firing range and even had specialized mechanisms to dial in the range. It's true you might not be able to get a good sight picture (or even a sight picture at all) without either of those - but thats why your assistant gunner or a third man usually carried binoculars - so he could walk you in. Being effective is not the same as being consistently accurate. Also - what is this fixation with the bren carrier? I reckon if it's bigger than a single man it'd be fairly easy to hit. Moreover - I'm not making these claims up; if you read the wiki page on the MG 34 mount you will see some surprising numbers which I have no issue trusting because I've read of similar distances in combat memoirs.

Lastly, I have no clue how experience with my semi-autos would be comparable to the intended use of a machinegun - that being a weapon which uses volume of fire for effect contrary to what is desired for an infantryman's rifle.

>>175813010
Is Scotland still decent though

>>175813642
why can't it be both? towards nazis because of the constant bitching from naziboos, towards frogs because le hon

those fucking brits and demoralized americans can go suck a baguette

>>175813819
they're total shit compared to what they used to be

Their mortar range was terrible before and it's useless now.

>>175813642
>biased to frogs
>panders to autistic wehraboos to shut them up

>>175813714
I keep using the bren carrier on this topic because it's the unit in question that now has a shorter range with it's mortar than some MG's in the game like the .50 cal.

Having a tripod certainly makes you more accurate, but even with an assistant gunner, how accurate can you really hope to be against a target you yourself can't see? A target that can be mobile at any time, return fire, and unlike you, has weapons that either have actual optics of their own or don't need them due to being indirect fire weapons.

It's certainly not impossible, but being accurate enough to actually be effective? That's pretty important, especially when we're talking about an armored(Albeit lightly) target. Even with a tripod, the recoil and rate of fire on HMG's makes them a crapshoot at long ranges for the naked eye. Steel Division's ranges for engagement are inconsistent and pretty generous, much like wargame.

Even with optics, shooting at targets 800m away is absurd.

>>175813878
>>175814913
Keep up the mental gymnastics lads.

>>175813819
They're pretty shit now desu. Mortar change is the biggest deal since Scots has shit all Phase A strengths besides their strong infantry

>>175814979
How is that mental gymnastics though? Its entirely possible that both the French and Germans to be more powerful than the other allies.

>>175818068
I just want to Commonwealth

>>175818068
>Strong infantry
The infantry isn't even strong, they get no armed transports and no veterancy in phase A, with shit MG's and no AT on their line infantry. They're just spammable, but easily countered by 1-2 pgrens.

The mortars at least leveled the playing field a bit.

>>175818289
>>175818068
They also don't have any close range specialist infantry, so they get eaten alive by flamethrowers and smg squads.

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>>175818268
You're mistake was liking a faction that isn't either French or German but worse, the allies of perfidious albion.

>>175818583
>You're

I'm absolutely retarded when I don't sleep apparently

>>175818670
same but all the time

>>175814919
For clarity: my original comment had nothing to do with the bren carrier and was entirely directed at the notion that machineguns were only effective up to 500 meters.

Where do you get the idea that the shooter needs to have a visual to be effective? As long as the weapon can reach that range and adjustments can be made the fire will eventually be walked onto the target. Thus is the beauty of a volume of fire weapon - precision is irrelevant when you can spray down the area you need to spray down.

Also:
>Shooting at 800m is absurd
Maybe to your thinking but it's certainly been done with great effect before.
>Even with a tripod, the recoil and rate of fire on HMG's makes them a crapshoot at long ranges for the naked eye
Short bursts and lead the puffs from impacting rounds onto the target. If you have optics then you can see the puffs from farther away.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_34#Lafette_34_tripod

The Free French are only ""OP"" in comparison to the state of the 3AD.

By their own merits, the deck isn't that powerful compared to 21st Pz.

Greyhound spam is great tho.

>>175818996
You can't even see 'puffs' at 500m, let alone 800. Especially with just iron sights and the naked eye. An assistant gunner can only do so much to guide you onto a general area, and even then, against a completely static target. Even a machine gun requires a level of precision in order to be effective or it's just not going to suppress a target properly.

If you take an M2 to a range and try to fire it at distant targets, the recoil, even with a big, heavy tripod dug into the ground, is going to wobble the gun about enough to where you're going to not be hitting with any sort of precision. This is why I questioned if you yourself have handled firearms before, because even the slightest deviation becomes a very large miss the further away the target is. A follow up round being an inch off from it's predecessor due to recoil can quickly translate to missing by several feet the further out the round is travelling; And with increasing distance comes increasing influences.

>>175818996
I should also point out that, in the scope of Steel Division, the weapons teams don't seem to even use the Lafette tripod anyway. Probably why the MG-34's range is as short as it is in-game.

>>175819416
If you choose not to believe me then that's fine. But I've read enough to know my claims aren't unreasonable.

>>175819771
Well I'm not saying it's 'impossible'. Just really improbable without optics. If there's a case of someone doing it with significant success, I've certainly never heard of it. And from my anecdotal experience of handling machine guns of varying make and caliber for years, it seems entirely impractical.

>>175807684

Are you retarded?

750m using a red dot with no magnification and a fucking rifle, not even an MG on a tripod.
https://youtu.be/tgKjbySsAik?t=438

>>175814919

What the FUCK are you on about? Are you literally retarded?

An M2 Browning HMG mounted on am M3 Tripod has an effective range of 2000m. 10th Mtn. regularly engaged AND ELIMINATED soft targets in excess of 1500m in the Korengal Valley. In fact, reports from the 10th Mtn. if taken at face value, allocate kills to their M2s at 2500m while in the Valley, and they come standard with the M3 Tripod when used as defensive emplacements. In fact, the guns are so incredibly accurate and effective out to such extreme ranges that marksmen with the 10th Mtn. would attach optics to the M2s to engage soft targets at distance instead of their M24s and M14s. Even the most rudimentary googling will tell you how fucking retarded you are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb9QAUhiVGs

In this video American soldiers use vehicle mounted M2s to engage soft targets at well above a kilometer away, with iron sights.

Also, a post mounted M2 has 1 point of stability, which is inherently less stable than a tripod. HMGs are actually MORE accurate when fired from tripods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_HnLQ4xkDA

Fucking LOOK at this thing, does that look like it is bouncing AT ALL?

>>175819416

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKjjWCqGQhs

Nope, not only can you not see puffs, but there is no way to hit anything at any kind of distance.

For the record, you're a double retard.

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>>175823034
>Calling people retarded
>By posting a video of a man on a range
>With special snowflake ammo
>A target painted white to stand out from the background as much as possible
>And propped up high on a stick
>Placed next to a road for maximum visibility
>With a rested weapon designed for precision semi-automatic fire.

Ah yes, I'm sorry, I forgot the expertise of an arm-chair SS elite. This is totally the same as trying to pick out a target attempting not to be seen, largely designed not to be seen, 700m away, through iron sights, and likely under fire.

>>175823445
But they have optics, and typically thermals, at that. What the fuck are YOU on about? You're not engaging far off targets with nothing but iron sights and shitty binoculars for your AG, with a 7.62mm machine gun with a high rate of fire.

FFS your own stupid videos show the recoil is intense enough to not only effect the weapon, but rock the person firing the god damn thing, and that's just with their hands on it.

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EUGEN

THIS IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE

>>175823696

10th Mtn. did not have electronic optics because they were not issued enough batteries for them while in the Valley. The second video I posted is them engaging targets with irons at over a km, the first video is them NOT being affected by recoil at all, not even the fucking gun barrel. The third video I posted is someone hitting man-sized steel plates at 1200m with irons.

You are retarded. Shut the fuck up.

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>>175823682
>Video literally disproves your own bullet by displaying exactly the shit I said.
>Still insist on calling others retarded
Keyboard warriors are really something else.

>>175823814
You can literally see the barrel jumping and bouncing seconds into the video.

Seriously are you morons just trying to bait? Am I being rused?

>>175823696

>300 BLK
>special snowflake

It actually has LESS long range performance than .30-06 or 12.7x99, and spotting isn't what we're discussing here, just raw ability to hit the targets. He's also resting it on a wooden fence, but i'm sure there were no wooden fences anywhere in the french countryside in 1944.

>>175823902

You are obviously a troll. The third video I posted IS A MAN LITERALLY ENGAGING AND HITTING MAN SIZED TARGETS WITH SHORT BURTS FROM A TRIPOD AT 1200M.

Holy shit you fucking dipshit. You have to be trolling.

Just popping in - shit has changed a lot since 1944. Guns are different, tactics are different, soldiers are different, their enemies are different. Comparing conventional warfare in Europe c.1944 to a COIN operation in the mountains of Afghanistan c.20XXs is never going to get you very far and also probably outside the scope of this thread because Eugen has made it pretty clear they have only a loose adherence to realism.

>>175823696
>Optics and thermals on vehicle mounted .50s
Are you retarded?

>>175824029

>Comparing conventional warfare in Europe c.1944 to a COIN operation in the mountains of Afghanistan c.20XXs is never going to get you very far

The M2 Browning and M3 tripod are almost identical to the ones used during WWII. There has been absolutely no significant change to either system in the 100 years they have been around. If we have video of someone hitting targets at 2500m in 20xx, they could have done the exact same in 1944.

>>175823926
>Standing behind a wooden fence trying to John Wayne people
>In combat

Now I know you idiots are baiting. 8 out of fucking 10 you had me for a few posts.

>>175824015
>Misses constantly
>90% of the rounds were far over or under, and even meters off to the side
>Against a large steel target far bigger than a human.

I'm just gonna crank that up to 9/10, you morons have actually rustled me a bit with your sheer stupidity.

Bonus points if you're fucking Yuropoors that have never even fired a weapon yourselves, trying to tell someone with actual god damn experience using and maintaing shitty M2's for years.

>>175824163
You must have been a shitty POG or something if you can't hit a target 500m away with an M2.

>>175824163

I'm sure it's impossible to rest your gun on a low wall or on the ground when firing from behind a berm, i'm sure wooden fences and benches are the only places a gun is capable of being rested at.

>>175824231
Oh man did you learn that at /r/military? Please, regale us with tales of your experiences and talents of trying to kill people that actually move and shoot back, instead of large, brightly colored, static pieces of steel propped up on poles and hills at a range.

>>175824136
I mean, yeah I'll take your word for it - I'm not familiar with the guts of an M2. But it's my understanding that the discussion was about MGs in WW2 in general. And the M2 is a whole different beast than the average MG that infantry would be toting around Europe in 1944.

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>>175823902

>barrel jumping and bouncing enough to disrupt him aim

Are you blind or just retarded?

Jimbo with 76mm when?

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>>175824410
Sure, I was in Kandahar in 2008, AMA

>>175824541
Are you? Seriously are you opening your fucking eyes?

>>175824514
No it's not, the M2 has been in use for almost 100 years

>>175824664
>yuropoor
How was the DFAC?

>>175824880
>Europoor
>Kandahar
L o l

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>>175824163

You got me, I totally don't use guns every day of my life, and I totally am not trained on how to use and maintain the M2 that is on our MRAP.

You can easily hit targets at above a kilometer with an M2, especially if it is mounted to a tripod.

Now, since it is established I obviously know what I am talking about, produce your DD214 or GTFO.

>>175824514

He specified HMGs which is the class of MG that the M2 is in, even the 8mm Mauser that is used in the MG 34/42 is easily effective out to at least 1000m, with many kills reported beyond that distance.

>>175824880
The Mess, as it's called, was pretty alright. The Tims was shit but it's Afghanistan so what can you expect.

>>175824834
I'm not denying that, I'm saying that the other anon(s?) have been talking about MGs in general. The M2 is vastly different when compared to the average machine gun being used in Europe in '44. Vickers, Bren, Maxim, MG34/42, etc. - you're not going to be popping people at 2000m+ with these guns, and it's not even how MGs were used in doctrine at the time.

>>175825083

I am not saying the game should have 2000m range MGs, what I am trying to say is that Dipshit McGee is very, very wrong about MG ranges being too long in reference to history and actual use.

>>175825083
Considering that the Vickers was used in an indirect fire role as early as 1916 for ranges of up to 1,100m and the Bren fires the same calibre, they both easily could be used up to 1000m or .60 of a mile for Americans.

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>>175824918
Sure, lets see yours, Sheriff.

>>175825267

Nice timestamp

>>175825267
>Less than 3 years
Someone got kicked out

>>175825267

>Sheriff
>DD214

Are you retarded?

>>175825267

>13 Bravo
>M2s

Pick one. Artillerymen generally do not of shootings things with MGs. When was the last time you touched an M2? Basic?

>>175825463
They let you Army fuckers touch M2s in basic? I joined the wrong branch.

>>175825657

Yup. We got to train on the M2s and the Mk19s in AIT for 11 bang bang.

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>>175825321
>Serve 3 years during surge.
>Surge ends
>Busted up from my time in with destroyed back and knees and decide to get out, and due to end of the surge they allow people to get out a couple months early due to needs of the Army. It even mentions this on the DD-214 itself at the bottom.

>>175825305
If you're really going to make go through the motions of digging up my physical copy. I'm mostly concerned with not having sensitive personal information being shown on a mongolian basket weaving board.

>>175825383
I was poking fun at his patch, blind fuck.

>>175825463
U fucking wot? Maybe in Afghanistan. We never even got to touch our howitzers in Iraq because on section is usually all a FOB will bother to have set up, and a battery typically has six, with several batteries being in a unit. For extra hilarity it wasn't even our unit that had howitzers set up in our BCT. We were out doing patrols, convoy security, TACRES, and QRF like pretty much everyone else regardless of MOS.

>>175826067

So you were in the military and you still don't know this shit?

MGs were being used for fucking INDIRECT FIRE in WWI. You really need to read a fucking book, dude.

>>175826067

>I was poking fun at his patch, blind fuck.

Right, but why would he have a DD214? Cops != military.

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>>175826186
We knew fucking plenty. Especially after having to do shit like clean up the clusterfuck 101st left behind in Diyalah.

>>175826274
>That's the joke.jpg

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>>175826186
You can use a lot of things for indirect fire, that doesn't mean you should. Doctrinal use of MGs in WW2 is 99% direct fire support. Not sniping people at 2km in Kunar province, not lobbing bullets into an enemy trench at Verdun - direct fire support. Engaging the same type of targets as the riflemen they're supporting, in order to establish fire superiority and allow maneuver elements to close with the enemy and destroy them or drive them off. If a video game wants to portray the use of MGs in WW2, that is what they want to emulate.

>>175826469

>I totally know that M2s can be used for indirect fire kilometers away
>M2s are ineffective after 500m

Holy shit you're retarded.

>>175826486

Read my posts dipshit, all I am saying is that MGs have a fine range in SD:44. There is no reason (historical or gameplay) to change them.

>>175826486
This holy shit it's been all I've been saying. I even mentioned about 5 fucking times that it's not 'impossible' to engage targets at extreme distances, just highly fucking unlikely with efficiency outside of extraordinary circumstances. Circumstances like being in fucking Afghanistan with massive fields of open fire and elevation with easily silhoutted targets, optics, and gigantic thermal mounts most COP's have mounted near half their fucking towers anyway, with heavy machine guns using much larger bullets than an MG-42, with air support and artillery typically on the horn.

>>175826578
U fucking wot? indirect fire and direct fire are two totally different things. I mean, fuck, I can fire a handgun off into the distance blindly towards where I think someone is on a hill and call it 'indirect fire'. Doesn't mean I'll actually hit or suppress shit.

Having multiple towers with .50's and Mk 19's spraying an entire hill-face is not, in any remote sense, at all like the combat in Normandy.

>>175826773

Shooting bocage 550m away with an M2 and scoring kills or suppressing your enemy is the combat in Normandy, which is modeled.

I am using the abstraction of Afghanistan to help you understand that if killing someone 2km away on a mountainside with an M2 is possible and relatively common, killing someone ~500m away in a hedgerow on flat terrain is just fine.

>>175826887
You're conveniently leaving out the fact that it isn't really the M2 killing shit. Especially by itself.

It's the 2-3 towers of M2's and Mk19's, along with a pair or more of mortars, and possibly a section of howitzers. You're being intentionally misleading to overblow a weapon's effectiveness.

>>175826773

Also, the MG3 (which is essentially a copy of the MG42 chambered in a weaker round) has a maximum effective range of 3km when mounted to a vehicle, and an effective range of at least 600m when bipod mounted.

>>175827034

Talk to 10th Mtn. Don't know what to tell you, but they killed plenty of shit with M2s at that range.

Also, since we have established that M2s are effective at least for suppressing things at that range, why should they not be effective out to 600m on flat terrain with near-perfect visibility?

>>175827156
Because the chance of having near-perfect visibility is next to nil. Especially against man-sized targets. They're going to naturally blend in with the background at that range, hence why we bothered to invent things like thermals in the first place. Grass, general foliage, etc. is all an obscurent that can conceal men and small, low vehicles like the universal carrier we were originally talking about, and would make trying to nail them with machine guns at extreme ranges, far more difficult and impractical than, say, sitting on top of a friggin' mountain in a country largely devoid of plant life, shooting at people in white man-dresses.

>>175827582

Okay, but this is modeled by allowing sight on the targets in the hedgerows only immediately after they fire.

I don't know about you, but I think that if I am in a tank and a shell flies at me out of a hedgerow, I am going to shoot at that area with many, many bullets.

Third thing: how many MGs do you think it takes to kill targets? in the game, 2-3 MGs firing into a single squad will take literally hundreds of rounds to kill it, sometimes to even suppress it, so I don't understand where your issue lies.

>>175827708
My only particular issue was ever the fact that a mortar-carrier has shittier effective range than an M2 using direct fire on level ground through tall grass and wheat fields. That's literally all we were originally talking about.

>>175827885

The 2in/51mm mortars modeled in game only had an effective range of 500-700m depending on the mount, it makes total sense for the M2 to have as long or longer of a range.

>>175828014
The core of the problem here is it's gameplay impact. They were made useless by the tremendous nerf, and it wasn't done for realism or else several other weapons would have been reworked into more realistic ranges.

Anybody know of a playlist or album or anything that collects WW2 music? Like the Panzerlied and whatever the Russkies listen to?

>>175828131
https://www.youtube.com/user/DeroVolk

>>175828109

You can still fire from behind hedges/buildings/literally any other LoS blocker to avoid getting shot at.

>>175828109

They aren't useless, they just have a shorter effective range (and a more historical one) which means that you can't arty spam the shit out of people in Phase A (or if you do, you need to use FOs).

You have 3in mortars, 25-lbers, and Priests in that deck, not to mention the copious amounts of FOs. If you want something with more bang power and longer range, use those. The nerf is both historically accurate and helps solve some of the issues plaguing the gameplay side as well.

They still have a faster rate of fire than any mortar the Germans get Phase A and they still are more mobile, more resilient, and have an MG to boot.

>>175828229
>fire with shitty low range mortar
>enemy mortars blow your shit up
alternatively
>enemy mortars start firing
>cant counter-mortar them

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first they nerf avre and then give nazis something much better

>>175828468
also, they really seem overpriced for what they are considering Germans can get an 81mm mortar in a halftrack with double the range that is also faster for only 15 more points
>>175828517
you dont understand, its balanced

>>175828464
They can't even counter battery, and unless you have obstacles in the way, they can't deal with AT guns and weapons crews, which is their entire point. They'll just get raped by enemy artillery, or outright shot by direct fire now. You're paying 70 points for a mortar shittier than what infantry lug around.

>>175828517
Eugen can't keep getting away with this

>>175828735

>use LOS blockers (which there are lots of because fucking bocage)
>get within 700m
>shell targets
>scoot

To deal with CB

>call in rocket plane
or
>call in ASF
or
>use FOs
or
>push
or
>shoot and scoot

I mean, it isn't hard. German air and AA is shit across the board with the notable exception of the Luftlande. Again, if you want something better than take one of the 5 options you have that is better.

>>175828929
The core of the problem here is that it's all they get in phase A. You get nothing now to deal with weapons teams, AT guns, and enemy artillery in the one phase the Scotts are supposed to be good in. You're pretty much gimping your team by picking Scotts now.

>>175829076

>200m nerf makes mortars totally fucking useless

But that is wrong, especially on extremely dense bocage maps like Pointe-du-Hoc, Omaha, or Mont Ormel where hedgerows are generally less than 700m away from one another. You can very comfortably sit behind your bocage while shelling theirs.

If you need to deal with other targets you could also take a Phase A rocket plane or bomber to delete these units with literally no recourse from most German decks.

Or you could simply bait out shots or spot an AT position and comfortably pick it off with a Churchill V (which has an effective range 200m more than 90% of Phase A AT weapons).

15th Scots are still extremely competitive and imho second only to the French right now.

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>>175829329
The issue is that the 2 inch mortar is too fucking expensive for what it is.
The German mortar is way, way better for a measly 15 points, and you can get two of them in the new deck.
Make the 2 inch 60 points and it might actually be worth it at that cost.

>>175829668

I'd say at 55 points it'd be worth, and I also want to see like a 3in mortar x2 card in Phase A for the 15th.

I do agree that they nerfed it without giving any other alternative.

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also
>uk 50mm mortar has 200 less range than german 50mm mortar
>even though the effective firing range of the 2-inch is about 450m and the effective firing range of the german mortar is about 500m
H U H

>>175829790

This also needs to be fixed. Unfortunately Eugene (hopefully) just missed this.

>>175828517
This is what happens when every stat is arbitrary and the company doesn't give a shit.

why did they ruin the scots division

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So which Allied division should I play now that Scotland is kill

>>175813010
Scots are still very good.
>AVRE nerf, fair enough, it's still okay, it just needs a price drop
>2in mortar, yeah pretty nasty nerf that one, wouldn't mind so much if they moved the 3in to Phase A
>Tri-polsten, thing was crazy OP, allied AA overall is still very good though so I don't see the issue
>17lber, hasn't really effected it's primary role of shitting on tanks, strange that the price hasn't been dropped
>Bren carrier & humber, real men always took the MMG carrier anyway, which is still god

The strength of the Scots deck was never its meme units, it was its ability to field huge numbers of infantry and have the equipment to take all comers. This was a pretty vindictive patch, I wasn't expecting anything other than the AVRE & Polsten, but the deck is still very solid.

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>1 Bren gun: 2HE
>2 Bren guns: 3HE

>>175832409
Indianhead is the best

>>175832409
2nd ID. 3rd AD if you want to harvest salt from retards with the Jumbo.

Eugen unsurprisingly made the one french battlegroup in the game full-retard as well.

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>>175832572
>1 MG42: 4HE
>2 MG42: 9HE

>>175832572
Remember that every combination of weapon is a seperate weapon ingame. There is no 2x Bren Guns. There is just a Weapon called Bren_X2 which has it's whole own set of rules. So if they change the Bren gun it doesn't affect the Bren_X2 and the Bren_X2 might not even be written by the same guy who made the Bren, so it could have totally different values! or in this case, they just forgot how much HE damage it ought to do.

So what's the verdict on the 21st, haven't had a chance to try them out yet

>>175832742
>mediocre A/B, just hold the line
>phase c comes and crush everything with king tigers
not much else needs to be said

Has anyone tried the smoke bomber? Is it worth 120 points?

>>175833626
I can't figure out how to get it to drop smoke parallel to enemy lines. That'd make it a lot more useful.

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Willy Pete for Shermans when?

>the wheraboos cry as much as HATObabbys
friendly reminder to gas the west

>>175833875
?
just get it to fly from the side

>>175832607
>>175832572
The actual damage of Bren is 0.15 the actual damage of MG-42 is 1.00.

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>>175834248
It turns out the people who want to play Nazis in world war 2 games, are the same autistic screecher who insist that everything Soviet made during the cold war was bad. Who knew?

They probably like the free syrian army too.

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>>175834620
Please let Sunshine show up on the SD44 forums, I need a good laugh.

Also, with mont ormel and carpiquet in the game I'm very surprised Eugen don't seem to be including single player scenarios on those maps.

Big coop/standalone single player missions based around the historical engagements on those maps would be fucking neato.

>>175833985
>Implying Eugen would allow allies to have something unique and powerful that Germans do not.
Be happy we even got some comparitively weak rocket artillery.

>>175795767
Steel Armor is a good one. I only wish it was multiplayer.

>>175807684
>Vickers heavy water-cooled machine guns were regularly used in both World War One and Two as artillery, pouring down a vertical hail of bullets in extended barrages. There were special machine-gun battalions, complete with Forward Observation crews, capable of "protective, creeping, standing and enfilade barrages."

>The guns were capable of extended firing; the longest and heaviest barrage fired in World War One consisted of ten Vickers firing nearly one million rounds at a target about 2000 yards (1829m, for those of us used to thinking in CM terms) distant in one continuous 12 hour (!) bombardment. Interestingly, the Vickers were none the worse for wear: "Of the ten guns used in this attack there were no major breakdowns and all were completely operational at the end of the barrage."

>>175796528
war thunder is shit you dumpass

>>175829668
even the Ranger mortar has 900m range

700m is crippling

>>175833626
spam enough and the game lags like crazy

>>175837624
>Need an entire battalion of machine guns in order to loosely get this concept to work
>Along with forward observers
Pls.