/sthg/ Sonic The Hedgehog General

fast

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Claimed in the name of Wave.

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>>173926457
>No Hill Top Zone

Not an argument.

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Make way for best fox.

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>tfw no bf to play sonic games and maybe hide the pickle with.

>>173926752
Screw that, thread theme starts now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnBlHfc4Lh0

>no green hills
>no mecha green hill

>>173926851
>Feralshit

No!

>Green Hill Zone's
>Some of them aren't even called Green Hill Zone
Evening, reddit.

>You notice Green Hill Zone gets worse and worse in every game after 1 sans Generations.

>>173926457
Wow, the Green Hill Zone from Forces looks like shit compared to the one from Generations-- judging from comparing screenshots, anyways.

Reminder that there is something coming from Sega Japan about Sonic Forces within the next 14 hours.

>>173926720
Shit girl with a man's body.

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>>173927043
That's why I let them slide in and called the edition "greenish hill zones" , cause I am a needy goat and want my favorite levels to.

And I would have gotten away with it to if it weren't for you meddling anons.

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>>173927007
Fine, have this one instead.
>tfw I clearly and knowingly have an unhealthy attachment to a fucking cartoon, mutant, 8 year old fox.

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If you're gonna put in Splash Hill, why stop there? Where's Seaside Hill, Windy Hill, Sky Road and Sunset Hill? Also, you forgot Dengeki Bunko Fighting Climax's stage.

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>>173927145
I'm in full defeatist mode and think it'll be insignificant and change nothing.

>Greenish Hill Academy

Fuck. You. OP. Thanks for reminding me of that fanfic.

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>>173927276
Isn't it the SJW drama Sonic fanfic?

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>>173926457
> mfw playing Sonic Heroes for the first time

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>>173927251
For some reason I completely forgot about those ones while I hurried this edited compile.

I have failed as a OP.

>tfw absolutely fine with green hill trope

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>>173927145
They are gonna annouce that all the Classic stages are going to be rehashes, but with slight differences in the background. Since we got Green Hill but will Sand instead of water, we're probably going to get something like Mystic Cave, but it's not in a cave. Or Sky Chase Zone but the Clouds are grey and heavier, leading to occasional drizzles.

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>>173927263
Better than nothing. At the very least, they'll just give a recap of everything in the direct. It's probably not worth getting excited about, but definitely worth at least a peek.

>>173927276
>Read about 41-42 chapters of it because of those threads talking how off-the-wall it gets.
>I'm slowing losing my sanity because of it.
>But I continue to read.

This general is a bad influence.

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>>173926457
Having a OC generated 3rd character in Sonic Forces makes total sense from a business standpoint.

When Sonic Adventure 2 was released, fan characters rose to an all time high, thanks to the introduction of Shadow, and the game's darker, more serious storyline. SA2's lifetime sales are over 3 million. Most of those sales are to children and teens, who found and fell in love with the Sonic fan community. And what's the first thing you do to become a part of that community? You create your own Sonic fan character.

This has become something that is passed down, throughout these years, to each generation of children. Even now, there are kids creating and posting pictures of their Sonic fan characters, while looking up to old, popular fan characters of the past. It's basically a tradition at this point.

16 years later, those kids who were there for the peak of all this are now adults, with their own disposable income. So how do you attract those potentially millions of sales back, and get a whole new generation interested at the same time? You give them the chance to finally make their dream come true:

Their very own fan character helping Sonic save the world from Eggman's dark dystopia in a CANNON Sega game.

It's genius.

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>>173927145
Oh yeah? From whom specifically? If it's Iizuka then I don't want to hear it. That plumber-obsessed cretin is probably the one who put that boost pad in front of that loop.

>>173927145
Watch as it's going to be fucking nothing.

>>173927824
gotta let that boost pad go desu

>>173927824
Reading that in Patrick's voice killed me

>>173927276
I thought about the name first without the fanfic, then remembered it was from a fanfic, then immediately put it in as the edition for keks, aint I a stinker?

>>173927128
Yeah I know, wasn't this game developed for 4 years now? I would have thought their first levels would be top notch.

>>173927727
I really could have used these thoughts last thread I made, really nice scenarios you got there.

>>173928114
Now do it with Squidward voice, and add at the end "Nya ka ka ka ka"

>>173927675
This general is not responsible for your illusion of sanity, but rather, for dispelling it. You're welcome.

>>173926941
>hide the pickle
What did he mean by this?

ALL WITHIN THE SPEED OF A LIGHT THAT ONE WILL FIGHT TO COMMAND

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>>173928002
No. Fuck you. There's no reason for it. Boostpads are the thing killing Sonic. They are the reason slope physics and momentum no longer exist. They are a scourge upon the franchise and they need to be wiped out with extreme prejudice.

DON'T STAND DOWN, BREAK THROUGH

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>>173927437

>>173928713
>They are a scourge
The hedgehog?

>>173928713
They've been "killing Sonic" since 1998. The Dash Panels and Speed Boosters don't really matter all that much.

>>173927437
That was my reaction to playing Werehog stages for the first time.

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>>173927727
If they're going to add an OC creator in Forces it better be at least decent.

I don't want to just make red and green Sonics, let me choose races as well. I want something along the lines of the Lego Games or Xenoverse at the very least.

>>173928227
Kek

>>173928713
>No. Fuck you.
R-rude!

>>173928713
A complete non-issue. It helps guide the player which can help straighten out players in 3D. And while it's silly and relatively pointless in 2D, it doesn't harm anything.

>>173928851
>They've been "killing Sonic" since 1998.
Exactly.

>>173928713
>They are the reason slope physics and momentum no longer exist.
Other way around mate.

>>173926869
I miss when Salt was around, making casually saucy stuff.

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>>173928851
>>173929004

How don't they harm anything? They hand speed to the player on a silver platter, perpetuating the "Hold right to win" mantra that's become so popular with the "Arin Hansons" of the world. Thank god for Mania.

While, yes, players need to be directed while running around in a 3D space, it should not be done with Boost Pads. It should be done with actual level design like, say, a golden collectible of some kind? It's one thing to tell the player where to go. It's another thing to MAKE them go.

>>173929123
Oh, my mistake.

They are the reason momentum and slope physics no longer exist.

Better?

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>>173928851
correction: 1992. Lest we forget.

>>173928851
Correction: Sonic was dead on arrival.

>>173929461
Correction: Sonic was dead the moment he was even drawn.

>>173929489
Correction: Sonic was never alive. He is a cartoon character.

>>173929004
>It helps guide the player which can help straighten out players in 3D.
If you can't do that with actual level design then fire everyone responsible and hire people who aren't incompetent.

>>173929405
>They hand speed to the player on a silver platter
No worse than the spindash.

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>>173928713
RIP Sonic
1991-1992

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>>173929405
>Momentum and slope physics no longer existing are the reason boost pads are so over used.
Fixed that for you Anon. It's an honest mistake, so I don't blame you for it.

>>173929405
In Classic Sonic's case they have the boost pads to make Sonic go fast because Sonic Team can't be assed to make momentum-based physics well. Remember how fucking DIMPS got more accurate Classic physics in Generations 3DS?

I bet even the loops are still scripted like they were on the normal Generations.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_V3zmjBj5Q

This video gives me life, maybe all of you need a listen.

>>173929582
DELET THIS

>>173929405
>Hold right to win mantra

No one's ever said this. No shit going forward in a Sonic stage helps you beat the stage. The meme was "boost to win," stupid.

>>173928925
At the bare minimum:

>Bois
>Grills
>Hedgehogs
>Foxes
>Birds
>Cats
>Rabbits
>Squirrels
>Simple clothing/accessories

What would be nice to have:
>Bears/Pandas
>Dogs & other canids
>Mice & other rodents
>Other felidae
>Raccoons

Absolute madmen wish:
Echidnas

>>173926457
https://discord.gg/5AnRd

>>173929805
>No one's ever said this. No shit going forward in a Sonic stage helps you beat the stage. The meme was "boost to win," stupid.
You've clearly never been on /v/ Sonic threads (not that you should ever want to be on them, the only time they're not shitty is by either miracle or if it's storytime threads with comic issues).

There's always, ALWAYS that guy that will proclaim to his very last breath as if he only exists for this purpose that Sonic is "hold right to win". It's not even bait usually, it either descends into insults or they genuinely go out of their way to provide arguments and counter-arguments about every single potential thing they can to bitch about Sonic being too easy and baby's first platformer.

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>>173929868
If this is what ends up happening, I might excuse the classic Sonic gameplay.

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https://dl.humble.com/teamcherry/Hollow_Knight_NoDRM_Win_x86_1.0.2.8.zip?gamekey=z8ysvUrBhyb7XHBV&ttl=1492222137&t=c2a4dbbf457e68ae5c78b290306087fd

Better game then Sonic Forces/Sonic Mania will ever be.
Sonic should have a Metroidvania esque Adventure game someday. Probably never @ this rate

>>173930037
>Sonic being too easy and baby's first platformer.
That's Kirby, and Kirby is a good series, if not Nintendo's best series.

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>>173930037
>Giving an honest to god fuck what /v/ thinks about Sonic
>Ever

There's the problem, anon.

>>173930163
You posted this last thread. No one cares.

>>173930163
>Zelda pic
>Metroidvania
I don't know which is worse.

>>173929687
It's ironic since the video is mocking valid complaints.

>>173930248
>There's the problem, anon.
It's not so much that I care as it is that I come across this shit and see just how vehemently people hate Sonic that they create complex debates and hop through elaborate mental gymnastics just to complain about something others like. Not to mention how many people get hooked into these debates.

Then again, it's /v/ so I guess that's not exclusive to Sonic.

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>>173929581
At least the Spin Dash is something that I consciously do of my own accord. This is a video game. Even if you assert that the Spin Dash gives the player speed, at least I have to press a button to do it.

Same goes for Boost. People complain that the Boost is the thing killing Sonic for giving you instant speed, but at least I'm pressing a button on purpose to do it. Boost Pads can't even boast that much.

>>173928997
Also, sorry. Didn't mean it.

>>173929687
>trying to disprove legitimate complaints by reciting them with a silly voice without bring any counterpoints to the table

This is the worst thing ever actually

The best thing about Boom Sonic not being in Forces is, the Boom franchise will die off and not sully the main series.

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>tfw it's back
Suffering.

>>173930464
Worst I've seen all day, at the very least.

>>173930163
>still no Sonic/Amy NWF pic
Drawfags pls

>>173930546
The only thing Boom related that should stick around is Sticks.

>>173929868
>no avians or reptiles anywhere on the list

cmon son

>>173929687
This legit made me feel anger. Fuck.

>>173930447
>At least the Spin Dash is something that I consciously do of my own accord
>b-but
So you're defending what's essentially the same thing but can be abused rather than being stationary.

>>173930163
Can we get this with Bump and Anon?

>>173930730
But I did list birds. You're right about reptiles though, given how we have Vector and Espio. And how could I forget deer.

>>173930650
How? No one was expecting Forces to be "Sonic's triumphant return".

Sonic Cycle has only applied to Unleashed and maybe 4, otherwise it's still the same tired bullshit.

>>173930852
>Can we get this with Bump and Anon?
>implying anon would turn down bump advances

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>>173930935
Y-yeah, no one

>>173929687
Not dunkey

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>>173930935
So it's actually this one instead then.

>>173930852
I SWEAR i was gonna say cervids next. Fuck man, you're a mind reader.

Though aquatic animals would be good too, like that one bottlenose dolphin that was floating around the past few threads

>>173930935
Someone really needs to add "Denying the Sonic Cycle" as part of the cycle.

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>>173931089
>Complaining about shoe buckles

>>173931136
Explain to me how Colors, Generations and Mania fit into your faggoty 2008 meme, then.

>>173931089
And now people are bitching about how only Sonic is playable, and potentially one new buddy.

>>173931089
This one seems more likely, honestly. Boost pad about as bullshit of a complaint now as shoe buckles.

>>173931253
>green eyes
>blue arms
same fucking principle.

>>173930935
Not all true. People was expecting Forces & Mania to bring Sonic back from the shit ROL & mediocre LW. So far, it looks promising, but it's gonna be an all-time great Sonic game. At least based on what we've seen, because who knows? The final product could be amazing.

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>>173930948
>implying your inplications

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>>173931260
Not him, but it was broken during colors. Hence Anon saying the Cycle is back.

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>>173930771
The Spin Dash is different because of the simple fact that, when the initial burst of speed is done, the player is in ball-form. This means that Sonic's momentum is entirely dependent on the terrain for the few seconds after the Spin Dash is complete. What's more, you must stop in order to perform the move, thus there is a give and take when it comes to performing the move. This is also why the Super Peelout is, at least, somewhat forgivable.

With a Boost Pad, it gives you instant speed regardless of your state. You hit the Boost Pad while running and you can keep running afterwards. This is a case where there is absolutely no give and take. You enter it with either a little speed, or no speed at all and you exit it with a static, defined amount of speed.

This is the difference between the Spin Dash and a Boost Pad.

>>173931459
The Cycle came back with Generations.

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>>173930948
Anon always has, actually. Was gonna post >>173931384 but there's also this.

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>>173931519
But Generations was good though.

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>>173931384
>>173931548
To be fair, those are both pretty old, and he might be more familiar with pic related

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>>173930163
That wouldn't work for Sonic himself, but maybe one of the other characters like Knuckles, Rouge, or even the Chaotix.

>>173930696
I'm also requesting this. Sonic and Amy are practically the definition of the no way fag pics. I don't get how one hasn't already been made.

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>>173927145
You said 9 hours left like 10 hours ago.

>>173931478
>b-but it's different!
It doesn't matter what state you were in beforehand, both produce the same outcome. Except one is stationary and doesn't require you to full stop for it and the other kills momentum and can be abused. Looking at it more, the spin dash is more detrimental to 2D Sonic than boost pads yet I don't see you complaining about it.

>>173931641
If you get rid of the "Classic Sonic is back!" novelty, the game was mediocre.

>>173931796
But Classic Sonic WAS the worst part of that game.

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>>173931643
I hate that pic so much. I really have to avoid watching it because it gives me feels I don't want to feel. It's a great pic.

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>>173931643
I love these so much. I hope Bullet's IRL problems are sorted soon.

>>173931759
I don't think that was me. either way we've got a little more than 12 hours left for them to do something, given the time in japan.

>>173931260
>Colors
Overreliance on 2D, blocky platforming, intrusive gimmicks, and Teletubbies-tier writing. Only liked because it was at least consistent, but sorely overrated.

>Generations
Half-assed half-game, ridiculously short, modern levels themselves are ridiculously short (and fans bitch ad-nauseum about the only level that was), classic gameplay is on par with Sonic 4, overrated because of PC mods (Bethesda excuse).

>Mania
Not even out yet, but it'll probably be short with low replay value, overrated only because it's the only classic-style game in 23 years. It'll probably be better than the entirety of the Genesis-era games and would be GOTY if it was released in 1995, but right now it'll amount to filler, like a bag of chips that's really tasty but still ultimately empty carbs and not a replacement for a proper meal.

Now, none of those games are bad, but holy fuck they're heavily flawed and overrated to hell and back by Sonic fans simply because they're only good relative to the rest of this god-forsaken franchise.

>>173931796
Man fuck you. Boost gameplay for Modern Sonic was great, the game as a whole was pretty damn good. The problems mainly subsided in Planet Wisp as a whole, Classic Sonic's physics and a lack of his Skill items being spread throughout the game, THAT LOOKS LIKE A HOMING SHOT and the final boss in general, and the missed potential in stages being thrown out for a fan vote that net a lot of city and starter zone levels. I didn't even mind most of the challenges.

>>173931863
Anon, both Sonics were the worst part of the game. But at least Classic didn't have a hand-holding, speed mechanic to beat each stage for you.

>>173931796
>two solid, straightforward gameplay styles that don't break up the pace
>large and creative levels with several different routes and unique areas
>control refined from Unleashed and Colors
>no interrupting side quests, extra missions are actually fun and interesting

There's a lot more than novelty there.

>>173931791
>the other kills momentum and can be abused
That's why the Spin Dash can NOT be abused. You have to stop in order to use it. Now, if this were Sonic Adventure 1, you'd be right. That Spin Dash can easily be abused. But not in Classic Sonic.

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>>173932019

>>173931643
>>173931897
I'd kill to see these properly lined and colored.

>>173931949
I'd think if they're gonna post something it's going to be on office hours, so that'd mean some 6 hours at most, maybe.

>>173932058
It's a get out of jail free card that lets the devs create poorly designed levels and handwave it. You can stop literally anywhere and hit a high speed for free.
Oh no! Lost your speed because you suck and hit an obstacle?! You're in luck! You can just spin dash and be right on your way!

>>173931791
>>173931791
>actually affected by momentum
>more dentramental

Not that anon, but wow you missed the point.

>>173932028
>Boost gameplay for Modern Sonic was great
The Boost was made WORSE in Generations, nigga. It was pretty all you did throughout his stages. Unleashed and Colors used the Boost mechanic better, they didn't abuse it.

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So I feel like this shot hold all the differences I could find between the two Sonic Forces videos
>Lighting is more red in the Nintendo direct footage and also includes random ember particle effects in the air
>Smoke effect simplified and water draw distance is lowered unknown if its just because it was running on Switch or not
Otherwise the Footage was almost like for like down to the texture filtering and draw distance.

>>173925258
She looks positively deranged. You'll go far, anon. Good stuff.

>>173932107
>He gives you an explanation.
>You just give him a reaction image in response because you probably don't know how to refute him.

Lol.

>>173932269
That's because the game literally became a speedrun, but if you weren't good at the stage layout and level design then you shouldn't be boosting least you fling yourself into a wall or danger. I can accept that Generations may have liberally accentuated the Boost mechanic, but I can also accept the game as trying to do its own thing and promote speed off of skill by sharp play.

>>173932261
Both are affected exactly the same way. The boost pad puts you at a certain speed and nothing else, just like the spin dash.

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>>173932283
I love these little analysis you do from time to time.

>>173932019
>It'll probably be better than the entirety of the Genesis-era games and would be GOTY if it was released in 1995, but right now it'll amount to filler

What? How is something able to be better than the best games in the series, but also overrated empty filler because of its release date?

I can agree with some of your points, but with ridiculous exaggerations like "Teletubbies-tier" and "on par with Sonic 4", and now Mania not being good enough because it came out too late, what the fuck do you want out of this series, then?

>>173932454
I'm pretty sure some of Modern Sonic's stages and bosses were near-impossible to get through without the boost, unless you have autism-tier precision.

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>>173932019
>Overreliance on 2D, blocky platforming,
I agree that the 2d sections are overused, but Lost World is more blocky that colors.
>intrusive gimmicks
I don't even like the wisps, but they are far from intrusive.
>Teletubbies-tier writing.
Agree.
>Half-assed half-game,
It's the polished game to date.
>ridiculously short, modern levels themselves are ridiculously short (and fans bitch ad-nauseum about the only level that was),
So?
>classic gameplay is on par with Sonic 4
Absolutely wrong. Play through Sonic 4 again.
>Not even out yet, but it'll probably be short with low replay value
What? Sonic 2 is short but I replay it constantly
>overrated only because it's the only classic-style game in 23 years.
And it actually good?
but right now it'll amount to filler, like a bag of chips that's really tasty but still ultimately empty carbs and not a replacement for a proper meal.
More people see Mania as the proper meal than Forces.

I really don't want to name call, but I really feel like an Adventurefag wrote this.

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>>173932525
I don't do them often due to people bringing up console wars and Sonic not being a big game for this, lately I've just been trying to find Switch games I can compare with other platforms and docked vs undocked since its still fresh.
Basically though Forces looks like its not going to be a hardware taxing game, like the kind of game that could run on most hardware, considering that the footage we saw was Switch footage on the Direct, which I'm pretty sure it was, was running what looked to be 60fps you can expect it run to perfectly fine on PC, Xbox, and Playstation as well.

>>173930405
Once again, why are you caring about /v/ when it comes to Sonic? I mean shit, someone earlier this week complained about SEGA not making anymore classic styled Sonic games, even though Mania fucking exists. And the only people dumber than the anons that says that shit, are the anons that responds seriously to those posts. /v/ is best left ignored when it comes to talking about Sonic, because they usually don't know what they're talking about.

>>173932679
>I really feel like an Adventurefag wrote this

Doubt it, since he never once mentioned Adventure.

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>>173931478
Look, as much as I agree with this, it's not about what each one does. rather, it's about the location of the two.

Yes, the spindash is something that must be done while prone and can't be canceled at the risk of losing speed, but can be execute pretty much anywhere in any direction, and can be cancelled at any time.

Boost pads, however, completely redirect sonic's momentum in the direction the level wants him to go, arguably removing a lot of autonomy from the games in which they're included. This is especially evident when they're employed en masse in modern sonic stages, such as the instance in Pic related. Their dictative nature often removes a lot of control from the player over sonic, instead immediately propelling them through the following obstacle.

>>173932829
He managed to complain about the two Boost-era games and the Classic game. I doubt he could be anyone else.

So, let's imagine that Sonic Adventure 3 came out. It had Crush 40 music, Chao Garden, Ryan Drummond and as much of the original cast as possible returning, a "dark" story, adventure fields, and all the other fixings.

However, it was also riddled with even more bugs and technical problems than 06 or RoL.

How would it be recieved?

>>173932679
>I really don't want to name call, but I really feel like an Adventurefag wrote this.
Adventure had plenty of problems, and honestly Colors, Generations and now Mania are overrated and going to be overrated simply because they're not Adventure or the other pre-Colors games. But that doesn't mean they're amazing.

And like I said, I don't consider any of those bad games, but pretending they're without flaws like a lot of fans do is ridiculous. "hurr the cycle is broken!" No, you just don't have a clue as to why the cycle was a thing to begin with. The same underlying problems are still there and never went away, they just took a different form.

>>173932472
They are really not though. The Spin Dash can fail.

>>173930710
[spoilers]The writting style can stay too[/spoilers]

>>173932963
It would be hailed as the best Sonic game by Adventure fans, 06 fans would claim it should be remade, other Sonic fans would hate it, the media would call it THE NEXT 06 or 06 3

>>173932963
People would disown Sega for real for fucking such a once in a lifetime thing up.

>>173932997
So can boost pads if they aren't placed properly.

>>173932963
>However, it was also riddled with even more bugs and technical problems than 06 or RoL.
It would be as well-received as 06 and RoL.

>>173932928
He could just be someone that doesn't like Sonic at all. There's people who aren't Adventurefags, yet shit on Classic & Boost.

>>173932963
Adventurefags would lose their shit for fucking something they wanted for so long up. Like how the Classicfags flipped their shit over Sonic 4.

>>173933014
>There are REAL LIFE PEOPLE who actually like Boom's writing style.

I pray for you to find the light.

>>173932019
So why are short Sonic games bad now? It's not like every game can be Sonic 3 & Knuckles in terms of length and Sonic Team explicitly stated post-Unleashed that making a game entirely around the daytime boost segments was just not viable given how fast the stages are over and done with in an average player's hands.

Generations was them making something like that in spite of knowing this, and of the classic series, only CD and 3 (& Knuckles, if you do the lock-on) had saving. CD is super ultra incredibly short if you don't bother with time travel or special stages, but people don't mind because that game was about its exploration while still letting you rush through fast if you wanted. Sonic 1 and 2 were lengthy by technicality, but honestly you can play through both of them in one afternoon. I don't see why a Sonic game is suddenly shit for being short, especially if they promote replayability.

>>173932963
Sega would be truly, irrevocably fucked. Even the diehards would die off.

>>173933075
With that logic, the Spin Dash fails if the player fucks up, but the boost pads fail if the level design, or at least their placement, is shit?

>>173932983
No one is pretending those games are without flaws. What we're saying is that it's possible to discuss those flaws without your reliance on an obnoxious old meme.

Again, what do you want out of this series? What lofty demands need to be made to break the unyielding Sonic Cycle. How can we understand Sonic the way that you do so perfectly?

>>173933174
That's why Sega doesn't want to make it. They're afraid of doing it.

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>>173927437 >>173928772 >>173928853
Seriously, fuck the Sonic Heroes apologists. The game is atrocious.

Glitchy, erratic controls, ridiculously long levels, unconscionably frequent falling deaths. The checkpoints had to have been designed by a literal troll. The bosses feel like rejects from some other SEGA game because none of them fit together properly. The basic control is sketchier than SA2 and another step backwards. And it's not even that fast!

And the rails. The rails. The Rails. The RAILS!
It's like someone decided to take all the worst elements of SA2 and turn them all to eleven.
The worst of all is the camera. It's like something from 1997. Never where you want it. Mostly uncontrollable. L and R are you kidding me? THEY HAD THE SECOND STICK.
I'm not discussing the pinball levels. My uclers can only take so much rage.

I mean, I even like the the whole switching mechanic. I know there's a game there, are real game. At times it feels like it's working. You blend abilities in sequence, at just the right time, it's all going so well.
Then you press b or tilt the stick at the wrong moment and are sent flying back 3 minutes into the level, or the character switching sticks at a critical moment, or you have no idea what you're suppose to be doing because you missed some question mark hint, or you fell into some pit because the scripted sequence dropped you into dead air instead of a rail.
Looking at this game, it makes sense that Sonic 06 came out the way it did.

More potential, flushed down the toilet.

> mfw

>>173933216
Which means not only can they not be abused but are unlikely to fail.

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>>173933308
I'm not reading all this shit, Prince John

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>>173932983
>Adventure had plenty of problems, and honestly Colors, Generations and now Mania are overrated and going to be overrated simply because they're not Adventure or the other pre-Colors games. But that doesn't mean they're amazing.
They're still miles better than the adventure games. And I LIKE the adventure games.
>And like I said, I don't consider any of those bad games, but pretending they're without flaws like a lot of fans do is ridiculous.
No one does this. But saying that they're "overrated" would be wrong too.
Colors had shit writing, Generations has zero plot, and Mania has to rely on nostalgia to sell instead of being it's own thing. But I still enjoy Colors and Generations, and think they're both solid 8/10 games. And Mania is definitely going to be a 9/10.

>>173933170
Short games in general are considered bad now.
I'd rather a short fun game than a game that drags itself on unnecessarily for a 20 hour playtime.
Which is what many games do these days.

>>173933357
But if the player fails or succeeds, it's on them. If the boost pads fail, the people who made the game fucked up, which is the whole point. It's one less thing for the player to have control over.

When done right, the Spin Dash can happen almost anywhere. The boost pads? Your controls are at the mercy of automation.

>>173933308
My only real problem with it is that every Team has the exact same gameplay and you play through the same stages through each of their stories. It's a ripoff. They might as well just kept Team Sonic as the sole characters, and be done with it.

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>>173933308
>Switching rails using jump and a precise left or right
>Nearly shit myself when I jump to early and depending where i am on Rail Canyon I might fling myself to death or just stay in place

SEGA we had extra trigger buttons, why?

>>173933418
>Colors and Generations.
>Better than the Adventures.
I have played all of them, and I still prefer the Adventure games over Colors and Generations.

>>173933565
There are a few unique area in Dark and Chaotix's stages, Mystic Mansion for example. If there had been a lot more of that, it would have been much better.

>>173932983
No one acts like those games are flawless tho. Maybe during the first few days of the games release that might've happened, but no one now is claiming Gens & Colors are flawless.

>>173933565
At least Team Chaotix switched things up a bit.
That stealth mission on the Egg Fleet was kinda fun.

>>173933547
>When done right, the Spin Dash can happen almost anywhere. The boost pads? Your controls are at the mercy of automation.
That's a bad thing. Not only can it be used in ways that it shouldn't but it can fail. This conversation has enlightened me that the spin dash is actually worse than boost pads. If you're gonna complain about boost pads, you'd better complain about spin dash too since it's the same thing but can be done at any time instead of being part of a controlled level design.

>>173933647
And then, of all fucking things, the Shadow the Hedgehog game right after has an easy rail snap and switch.
I know it's been confirmed by this point but it still baffles me how much Sonic Team throws things at a dartboard but don't seem to really understand how to refine them until a game or two later.

>>173933170
>So why are short Sonic games bad now?
Because Sonic is supposed to be an important franchise and Sega is supposed to be a major company, or at least Sega views themselves as such. This isn't a $20 indy game. If I can play a game and be done in a few hours I'm going to feel ripped off regardless of how good those few hours were.

>Again, what do you want out of this series? What lofty demands need to be made to break the unyielding Sonic Cycle. How can we understand Sonic the way that you do so perfectly?
Get your head out from your rock if you think this is somehow unreasonable. I just want a game that feels like it was designed by someone competent with no clunky gameplay or extraneous bullshit. There has been literally no major Sonic games that have done that since the Genesis era, and Mania isn't a real solution because all it's doing is going back to the 90s instead of actually trying to progress. It gets a pass because it's supposed to be a throwback nostalgia side game and it'll be great by that context, but in the broad scheme of things it's just highlighting how consistently Sega has dropped the ball with literally every game since the 90s, and that includes Colors and Generations.

>>173933710
Nah mate, those games are honestly pretty dated. The only really good story in SA1 is Gamma's and the only time I go back to play SA2 is to play Eggman's levels.

>>173932283
What are the odds of the home console version not having particle effects? Probably just an unfortunate coincidence.

>>173933946
>Dated.
Not an argument.

The Adventure games have more to offer than both Colors and Generations combined since they're not empty.

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>>173934029
Low, assume the bottom is Switch since it was from the Nintendo Direct its extremely likely that they are just adding it to versions slowly.
Remember top is original footage, bottom is Nintendo direct footage

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>>173929868
>Echidnas as a playable race
>Sega meticulously tests every possible combination of features and cosmetic items to ensure that no resemblance to Archie's echidnas are made
>Goes so far as to not accept "Lara Su", "Locke", or any other names that were used in the comics
>Penders sues Sega over a mod

>>173933849
It fails because momentum. It can go fast if you go with the level or slow down if you try to fight it by going up a really steep slope. You are encouraged and discouraged to use the Spin Dash, but you do not have to use the Spin Dash.

With Boost Pads, being part of a controlled level design is the problem, because the level design takes control away from you. You might be able to jump over or skip some automated boost pads, but sometimes you have no choice.

>>173932753
I find them very interesting, and I haven't seen anyone get their autism triggered by them yet.

>Basically though Forces looks like its not going to be a hardware taxing game, like the kind of game that could run on most hardware
Yeah, I'm not getting the feeling they tried very hard with it.

>>173932829
>/v/ is best left ignored

FTFY

>>173934124
Dated IS an argument. They aren't polished at all. And having everything on two buttons is fucking retarded.

>>173933923
Did you forget to put a second post link there?
But in any case, think about it this way; Sonic Unleashed was closer to a ten hour or longer adventure. But mostly because of the fucking Werehog that wastes so much time on beat-em-up segments, and especially if you need to backtrack for Sun and Moon Medals to continue progression. Sonic '06 was also pretty long, but it was miserable almost the entire time through.

Neither of these games are really replayable. You may play Unleashed like, once or maybe twice a year at best unless you really do enjoy the werehog. Sonic '06 is a novelty playthrough and then you probably do singular levels thereafter, never starting the story over again. I'd rather take something like Sonic 1, which I can hop into, beat in a couple hours or less, and have my fill rather than jump into something that Sonic Team has never, ever consistently figured out how to drag out without problems occurring.

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>>173934289
Most of people lose their shit when I post my DQH Switch screenshots since its a bad port or this one since its a case of a game with higher resolution shadows and more grass on Switch.

>>173934289
The Modern Sonic gameplay had me thinking It'd be a taxing game. Guess it's not.

>>173933923
>no Sonic since the 90s has done it right
>I know there's a Sonic coming that does it like the 90s
>but it doesn't count because it's like the 90s

So if this game that is being designed by someone competent "doesn't count", then again, tell me what you want. As in, what does a new Sonic game that can overcome your Cycle need to do, tell me specific features other than "it needs to be not shit".

As for the short games, I'm assuming then that in the few hours you spent with these unsatisfying titles, you were able to get spectacular time attack records and learn the layouts front to back. You're missing a big point of Sonic if your attitude is, "finish and move on to the next one".

>>173932963
Horribly. That's the worst kind of tease you can make.

But then again it's THE CURRENT YEAR, and the game could realistically be fixed. So if they fix it over time and the game is actually good content-wise then they might be forgiven to some extent.

The problem with RoL and 06 is that they were not only buggy, but also really flawed.

>>173934451
The Modern gameplay looked really nice, but I guess the Classic gameplay is gonna look pretty damn lacking.

>>173934356
Better than having everything on one button.

>>173934221
If it's part of the level then it's designed with the boost pad in mind, meaning there's no reason not to use it.
>It fails because momentum
What horseshit. It was created to specifically allow players to blast up terrain they otherwise would have to spend half a minute building up speed to get up such as halfpipe pits. The thing you say dissuades people from doing the spin dash is the exact thing it was created to overcome.
Face the facts, pal.

>>173933169
I'm talking about the show and comics, I'm not stupid enough to buy the game.

>>173934559
Classic and Boost Sonic don't have this issue though?

>>173933170
They could go back to the old ways and pad out the games with difficulty.

>>173934425
I don't really lurk other places, so I wouldn't know about you or your other comparisons.

>>173934747
It's not like the old games were exceptionally hard either. Labyrinth Zone, yes, and the final boss fight of 1 was pretty troublesome. Death Egg Robo was also absolutely balls hard if you don't play it super safe in 2. But honestly some of that came down to sadism rather than difficulty (and limited continues/lives in a time where game over was a trip to the title screen and all progress completely lost).

>>173934560
>Face the facts pal
The Spin Dash can be done whenever be the player. The Boost Pads remove this choice and automates the level.

>>173935004
Glad you agree that boost pads are better than the spin dash and spin dash is an awful mechanic.

>>173934631
>I'm talking about the show and comics
But that still applies, especially for the show.

>>173934495
Look, I know it's a meme to say game design can't be dated or whatever, but if you're taking game design from the 90s and importing it into 2017 then it's not a major game and cannot be treated as a major game. It's a side game. It's a novelty. It's something interesting while we wait for the next major game.

>>173935079
Taking away the players controls isn't a good thing.

>>173935095
How so?

>>173935235
It's like saying the writing of TTG should stick with DC.

>>173935174
Now for the third time, would you care to suggest what you would like to see in the next "major" game? Your thought process is baffling.

>>173935184
Spin Dash does the same thing. You do not control the speed you launch with. You can very well not use the boost pad but since the level is designed with it in mind there's no reason not to. Giving the player an ability that can be used at any time or be abused to break the game that leaves them with a lot of speed and kills enemies is the real bad thing. Complain about boost pads when spin dash is gone since it's far worse.

Sonic shouldn't have a spin dash or be able to do anything besides jump, run by holding right, and roll down slopes

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>>173935365
But if Sticks sticks around how would you make her fit when the world and writing of Sonic Boom is what makes Sticks Sticks. Don't tell me you'd completely change her just to fit in the games.

>>173935528
Sonic 1 for life, desu.

Also, can you autists drop this argument? You're literally just going in circles & repeating yourselves.

>>173935414
I want a game with one very clear and very consistent game design, with a healthy amount of content relative to other major 3D console games of this generation, with all of that content being consistent with the aforementioned game design.

I honestly don't give a shit about specifics and I'm not going to waste my time laying out what I think the perfect Sonic game would be, because I understand everyone's personal tastes vary and mine is no better than anyone else's when it comes to the exact minutia they'd want. I just want a game that doesn't feel half-assed and disjointed for once.

>>173933849
Spin dash will work if the game is properly momentum (not speed) focused. The player will feel the loss of momentum when stopped and will trade time for it where motivated.

I miss the spindash but boost mitigates the need for it, and the present largely momentum-less level design does not support it.

>>173935458
If the Spin Dash is being used to break the game, you are an autist speedrunner who is trying to do so. Are you sure you're not mixing up the Spin Dash with the one in Generations? The speed can be controlled.

Boost pads can not. The level does encourage you to use them, because they tend to be nessesary, but it encourages automation.

>>173935601
Her personality doesn't mean the writing has to stay. She can still work.

>>173935627
Alright, I can see what you mean to a degree. Mania is looking like it's going to be completely satisfying for me content-wise, but I understand what some people might be missing.

>>173935612
>You're literally just going in circles & repeating yourselves.
This is what happens when there's no new anything. Arguments about the same things over and over until the general becomes so rancid, Zombies would puke.

>>173935730
>She can still work
Elaborate, you carrot-dangling fiend.

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>>173933308
I like the rails, even if they're hacky and kind of lazy level design.
I never had issues with the controls and I was playing on a fucking keyboard as a retarded child.
Levels can be a bit long I guess, didn't used to bother me too much.
Pinball level was not more annoying than all other pinball levels in the history of Sonic.

But hey man, it's ok if you don't like it, it seems to be a very divise game.

>>173935828
Virtual On bot should have been the third playable character :)

>>173935649
>player has to stop to use the spin dash instead of it being instant on top of being mobile and being an attack
Even worse.
I certainly wouldn't miss it if it left forever. I'd certainly take the peel-out over it as the norm.
>>173935656
Considering there's no reason to not launch at full speed with the spin dash they're pretty much the same except the spin dash is awfully implemented and an abomination of a mechanic in the case of Sonic. I'd rather a few automated setpieces than a shitty mechanic infesting any more Sonic games.

>>173935863
She can still be kept the same, but she's just in another setting. That's pretty much all there is to it.

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>Both have a long history with comic books and videogames
>Both are known for their popularity with teenagers and snarky attitudes
>However, both of their most popular/casual media outings (Spidey's movies) have fallen from grace and repeatedly receive negative reviews
>Both of their current comic series are unstable and awkward
>Despite this, both are considered one of the most popular mascots of their field

>>173935997
His name is Temjin you uncultured filth.

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>>173936016
Alright I been around the bush enough times to know when I'm being fucked with.

>>173936035
Still waiting for a crossover.

>>173936146
What is it you're not getting?

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>>173936054
Ok :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi1Av1KSJUo

>>173935863
Sticks' character revolves around being somewhat anti-technology but not the extent that she can't get along with the team or the other villagers. There's no reason why you can't keep that characterization in the mainline universe, especially since the biggest villain of the franchise represents everything that Sticks hates, which is technology used for evil with no regard for nature.

>>173934991
I know, I was talking just in general.

>>173935365
I don't know what that means because i'm not usually into comics. But Sonic Boom has some pretty clever and funny writing and if they're going to continue to make the games comedy-focused I'd rather they have good comedy.

Imagine how much cash SEGA could make if they were willing to invest in multiple Sonic series and give them time and a budget.

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>>173936282
Okay say we keep her the same. How would you write a conspiracy theorist in a mainline Sonic game where the setting doesn't really need one because Eggman is bold enough to tell the world what zany scheme he's up to while still doing in front of everyone's faces? The only time Eggman has been sneaky about his plot that was plot relevant was Colors and it was found out quickly just by having Sonic zip around the stage and Tails using his cutscene techno-babbling abilities to figure it out anyways.

>>173926457
Did someone say greenhill academy?
https://m.fanfiction.net/s/11733618/1/Green-Hill-Academy

>>173935627
So you want a Sonic game that has 70 levels and literally none of them are good?

Because that's what "healthy amount of content relative to other games of this generation" means.

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There is literally nothing wrong with boost pads. Or springs.

>>173933547
>The boost pads? Your controls are at the mercy of automation.
That's why boost pads are only to be used to move the player quickly though speed sections, where all they encounter are rings. It feels good, allows for controlled ring progression, and also ( a point often missed) quick cross level traversion (espeically for 2D games).

Look at the map for Chemical Plant Zone Act 2. This map is arguably the definitive expression of Sonic level design.
Understand this map. Understand what it is doing with space, direction, speed, ring counts, enemy placement, flat, slope, and half-pipe placement. Why are there pipe sections? Why does the level loop on itself? Why these enemy types? What are the gameplay elements emphasized by these choices?

Understand that this map had boost pads in 1992.

>>173935863
>>173936442
Actually, the more I think about it, Sticks would be perfect in the main games as Sonic's second sidekick. While Tails fits the tech specialist sidekick role, Sticks would fit the nature specialist sidekick role, and her and Tails can banter about responsible technology use. Sticks would jibe him for being overly reliant on tech when it fails him, while Tails would jibe her about being overly paranoid regarding tech when they're in a situation that requires it.

>>173936705
Drop the conspiracy theorist bullshit, that's the worst part of Sticks' character.
Just make her a wild jungle child.

>>173936705
Couldn't she just be a comic relief character? She would probably serve that role better than Knuckles.

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>>173936035
At least Sonic has a better current cartoon than Spidey.
Ultimate Spider-Man sucked and the new one coming out doesn't give me much hope.
And even in their unstable state, Sonic's current comics are better written too.

In an unrelated note, I doubt there are many /toy/fags in these threads aside from me but I got pic related semi-recently. It's a watered down rerelease of the original that's more expensive than he should be but it's better than paying out the ass for the original's price or god forbid bootlegs. More fun than I expected, even for $35.
Best Sonic figure around...though there's much competition anyway.

>>173936796
If Sticks gets added to the mainline games (which is a possibility), it looks like they'll just make her Amy's friend, if the Sonic Channel comics are anything to go by.

>>173936989
But what about Cream?

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>>173931880
Nicole gives me feels I don't want.

>>173937035
Amy can have two best friends. Besides, there's potential in Cream/Sticks interactions.

>>173936989
I'm thinking of what Stick could be, not what she'll probably be.

>>173936943
Toys are expensive, but I would literally fill my room with Sonic character plushies.

Do those count as /toy/ related?

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>>173936727
Oh lord not this fanfiction again

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>>173936767
>that upper path to the boss

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>>173935174
But is modern game design that amazing? Don't get me wrong, there are some great modern games that came out these last few years, but most modern games and their designs/influences are absolute garbage. And overall it seems to be getting worse.

On the other hand, 90's game design remains gameplay focused, and TO THE POINT.

I wish more modern games took cues from the 90's.

>>173937251
It managed to make every single character in the entire franchise completely unlikable.

>>173937196
Yeah they count.
I've been tempted by at least a few myself, even if they're not usually my thing.

>>173936943
Why is it watered down? Also, do you have a big collection?

>>173937363
I literally don't know what I want toys for, but I want them because i'm a hoarder. Thank god i'm a poorfag.

>>173937035
Sticks is Amy's severely mentally ill friend. Cream is Amy's honorary little sister.

>>173937363
They tried to make this into a melodramatic highschool fanfiction and failed miserably

>>173937603
Whoops meant>>173937351

>>173937109
>subtle shade around her nips
turbolewd

>>173937370
>Why is it watered down?
The original came with more accessories, like more hands, more faces, a goal post, and an item box...but also fetches more than $100 due to having been released years ago and fuck that price.

This new one only has a point-y hand, two fists, an open hand, a Chaos Emerald, ring, and one face.
>Also, do you have a big collection?
Yeah but it's mostly Marvel and movie stuff with some other various vidya inbetween.
There's not many good options for Sonic figures, sadly.
The best aside from that one I posted are the Jazwares figures which were released years ago and frail as fuck. If you even breathe on some they'll like they'll break. Most of the ones I had I don't have anymore for that specific reason.

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>>173937768

>>173937296
I'm not going to get into details because that's just going to lead to the conversation branching off way off topic as we nitpick and argue over what specific games we consider good or not.

But to be completely honest, an absolutely amazing and perfectly crafted 2 hour game is going to end up being less enjoyable than a 20 hour game that's merely good, simply because of cost efficiency. I simply cannot afford to spend a decent amount of money on something that's not going to give me a proper amount of content for its price, regardless of how polished that content is. A lot of people shit on modern game design for focusing on quantity over quality and to a certain extent that criticism is not invalid, but I honestly think simple economics plays a large part in why companies do that.

>Forces create a character
>yfw the game wont let you name your character after comic characters

>>173936767
>Understand that this map had boost pads in 1992.
Yes it did. As you said, this is an instance where the Boost Pads are good to have because they provide a boost in speed to get you up that steep slope that even a Spin Dash couldn't beat.

Boost Pads should only be used in an instance where the level design needs to have Sonic do something that he cannot do alone.

>>173937598
>>173937124

I support this idea.

>>173938030
You are on correct on lower quality but more quantity content being what most people tend to prefer.

But I think there's a place and time for that, and different audiences have different needs. Sonic fans don't need a lot of levels because they'll usually replay each and every one of them multiple times, unlike most games that only let you do the thing once.

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>>173935612
>You're just going in circles
So perfect for a Sonic thread then?

>>173931089
This needs a little tweaking. The last box should have something about news sites saying "THIS IS THE GAME THAT FINALLY GOT SONIC BACK ON TRACK" and the first box should say something about ignoring the previous game and pretending Sonic 06 was the last Sonic game.

>>173937843
>The original came with more accessories, like more hands, more faces, a goal post, and an item box...but also fetches more than $100 due to having been released years ago and fuck that price.
That's weak as fuck.

>Yeah but it's mostly Marvel and movie stuff with some other various vidya inbetween.
Oh... boring

>>173933923
>>>173933170
>Because Sonic is supposed to be an important franchise and Sega is supposed to be a major company, or at least Sega views themselves as such. This isn't a $20 indy game. If I can play a game and be done in a few hours I'm going to feel ripped off regardless of how good those few hours were.


Except every time Sega tries to do something on a scale larger than the Genesis games Classicucks and the gaming press have a collective chimp out and start screaming buzzwords until their lungs bleed.

So somehow Sega is expected to make a big budget $60 AAA game that also does not exceed the scope of a 26 year old game.

>>173938416
There's a few issues with this line of thinking.

First off, to be blunt, games have evolved and sticking to an outdated mentality is foolish. It works for handheld games, not console games. Keep the franchise on the 3DS if you want to do that, maybe the Switch at most. It's not a mentality that works for major modern console games.

Secondly, Sonic games, even the good ones, already feel disjointed and half-assed, so they might as well make a 40-hour game that's disjointed and half-assed like the common stereotype of modern games are.

And the reason why I've brought up indy games is that I can get an indy game with the same length as a typical modern Sonic game but designed better, so why bother playing a Sonic game if it's going to have neither quality nor quantity?

>>173938729
It's weak but again I ain't paying $100 for just more accessories. As of right now this is the only way I can have a Sonic in my collection that's half-decent.

I never claimed my collection was anything interesting, anon.
Again if we had a decent full Sonic line, I'd definitely buy my favorites like Knuckles, Metal, and Blaze but alas all the options are crap.

>>173938030
I agree with you anon. What baffles me is that the perfect solution to the price/game length problem is to make cheap handheld games and sega isn't fucking doing that. What makes it worse is they would rather risk millions in a "Go big or go home" fashion that puts sega and sonic in unnecessary jeopardy. Mobile (and recently sometimes handheld) games aren't just cashgrabs anymore. It's basically suits in charge testing how much money may be left in the franchise, even if the product itself is garbage (see Federation Forces)

>>173939012
I'm almost certain what you are doing right now is known as the "progress fallacy" or something along those lines. Game design has changed, but whether it's changed positively or negatively is purely subjective.

Making a Sonic level takes a lot of work, you might not notice it because you're going F4ST, but the levels in your average Sonic game are gigantic, they NEED to be gigantic, because if they weren't you would be able to clear them in seconds.
Which is a big issue with the very concept of the games, they are games where you go fast, way faster than the average racing game, but you can't just loop the same track 3-5 times to make up for the size, and you need to keep adding new different challenges to make the stage feel good.

Also not every genre works with the same rules, having a big expansive 500 hours of meaningless content world doesn't work for every franchise. For a platformer for example this is a very silly proposition, most platformers prefer to make the best out of a few levels than to add more shit levels to make the game feel longer, and for many people, this is better, because they get bored of doing boring shit over and over. There's a reason people trash talk games like Call of Duty and Asscreed, and only games like The Witcher 3 that have quality as well as quantity get praised, but then The Witcher 3 was in development for fucking ever and it had the advantage of having a big chunk of it's plot written beforehand.

>>173936943
I got the bootleg. It's okay, and a good way to get the accessories you don't have.

>>173938527
UP N DOWN N ALL AROUND
Like most conversations here desu

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>>173938030
In that sense, I agree with you.

Paying $60, and sometimes even more, for a game that should clearly be priced lower is something that's happening more these days, and it needs to stop. Especially with digital sales so readily available.

You're right, the price of a game should be decided by it's gameplay time. But I will argue that a 2 hour, highly polished game at a reasonable price is worth it. The more expensive game may last longer, but the short game can potentially give you a more satisfying experience, and leave you with a longer lasting impression.

>>173939173
I wasn't saying you should pay a lot money, just that it's weak that they re-released it with less accessories.

>I never claimed my collection was anything interesting, anon.
I still wanted it to be, but of course I ain't holding it against you.

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>>173940232
Too fucking cute, man.

>>173940232
amy a shit

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>>173940039
>>173939012
>>173940306
To add to that. Let's be perfectly clear on something, because the average gaymer doesn't seem to realize.
Game development has not gotten cheaper, far from it, the average modern game is far more expensive to make nowadays than it was 20 or even 10 years ago, and they keep getting more expensive. And the average price for a game has dropped considerably, because of inflation and other factors.

Game companies are already struggling to balance their economics to make games profitable, and this is partly due to incompetence, but also due to gamer's unwillingness to accept things like a game that costs more than 60$.
Which is fucking retarded because then they end up paying way more than that in DLCs, expansions and microtransactions. Maybe if people were willing to shell out 90$ for a game straight up, instead of 150$ over the course of a year, we could get better, higher quality and quantity games, without having to deal with so much of the nick and dime bullshit we currently have to deal with.

Or at least we could actually make a compelling case to complain.

>>173940501
Rude.

>>173940039
>I'm almost certain what you are doing right now is known as the "progress fallacy" or something along those lines. Game design has changed, but whether it's changed positively or negatively is purely subjective.
Sega is a major video game company. They exist to make money, which means people need to buy Sonic games. You do this by making games that more people like. Right now most people prefer games with large amounts of content, even if it's "good" rather than "amazing." This is the true definition of "the consumer is always right": you make money by giving the consumer the product they want (or at least think they want) even if you think it's a sub-par product.

And please, don't change the subject by saying something dumb like, "well Justin Bieber/Call of Duty/Bayformers is really popular so you must want Sonic to be that!?!?!?"

>Making a Sonic level takes a lot of work, you might not notice it because you're going F4ST, but the levels in your average Sonic game are gigantic, they NEED to be gigantic, because if they weren't you would be able to clear them in seconds.
This is a flaw in game design and should be corrected, not something that should be considered a sacred cow. It's also a flaw that's only cropped up since Unleashed. Even the Adventure games were not nearly as fast, and the reason why those games had larger levels than they needed to was because they relied too heavily on corridors and "floating platforms in the sky" level design instead of truly taking advantage of 3D space. In fact the issues with level size is primarily an issue with lack of efficient level design, though it's far more noticeable with boost. You look at classic level designs and (barring the first one or two) they usually make very effective use of 2D space, having winding paths, branching paths, and using vertical wraparounds. Well that mentality didn't make the transition to 3D and it shows.

>>173940060
So the quality is just okay, then?
I'm not expecting greatness but if it's okay, I just might get the bootleg for the accessories.
Cheap enough too.
>>173940350
Yeah it is, but they're gonna do what they're gonna do. It's a subline geared towards Americans and casuals who apparently can't handle multiple accessories but can gladly pay $35 dollars for something that was $30 dollars five years ago with more stuff. At least that's what they're saying. In reality it's just them giving suckers less for more and I happen to be a grade A sucker.

You could fix this by just having Sonic ride the coat tails of nostalgia and advertise it as such. Basically take the Mania and GEnerations route for a while

>>173940703
I'm sorry, i'm the kind of person that cares about the art more than the profit the art makes.
I don't see how they could make better use of space. The levels in Sonic are so narrow because if they weren't then we'd be really getting into some real issues. They have a hard enough time making linear levels, making wide levels would just make things worst, and the boos games do have multiple paths, even if they're just vertical most of the time.

The problem lays in Sonic's very premise, but if you change it you basically take away any reason for the games to exists, at least as they do now. The adventure games had very large stages too, true, not as big, because they were slower. And how many speed stages are there in them? A dozen at most, the bulk of the game is made up of slower stages with different focus.

>>173941071
>I don't see how they could make better use of space. The levels in Sonic are so narrow because if they weren't then we'd be really getting into some real issues. They have a hard enough time making linear levels, making wide levels would just make things worst, and the boos games do have multiple paths, even if they're just vertical most of the time.
This is just because they ran away with Sonic being speed and spectacle heavy instead of toning it down and applying speed and spectacle in ways that add to the gameplay instead of detract from it.

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>>173928713
Boost pads barely even do anything nowadays though. They basically just make sure you get hurled properly into scripted event.

Scripted events are much worse. But both them and the boost pads are symptoms of a larger issue, which is, as you say, the lack of momentum based physics. That's the real cancer killing Sonic and preventing it from becoming anything but mediocre boostfests and gimmicks. It's all spectacle to distract you from the games' lack of real substance. Some might be fine with it, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect more from a series that is perfectly capable of implementing such extremely rudimentary gameplay mechanics. Sonic Team is simply actively choosing not to do so, since the majority of players don't seem to care. Which is usually the point where I stop being frustrated and start becoming depressed that it's basically a lost cause unless there's some major upheaval in the future that forces (heh) Sonic Team to reassess their priorities design wise.

tl;dr shit's fucked brehs but no one cares because the games are "playable"

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>>173941185
I guess I could see an Adventure-style game in the hedgehog engine having the best Quantity/Quality ratio you could expect out of a Sonic game.

But let's do some math, most Sonic stages are a couple minutes at most, most people think the 15-20 minute stages in Heroes are too long. So let's say on average you have 5-10 minutes per stage. That means that you need 12-24 stages just for 2 hours of gameplay. If you wanna get even close to the 10-30 hours most modern shallow games give you, you'll need anywhere 120/240 to 360/720 stages. Even if you are making literal shit for stages, that's still a ton of work.
Realistically most people aren't going to play all that shit more than once. In contrast most people that are into Sonic games can easily get dozens of hours of gameplay out of 30 or so stages just by utilizing them multiple times and making the most out of each and every one.

>>173941624
So what you're saying is that as long as Sonic has the boost, spindash, and dash pads, it'll never be good, and so to make Sonic good, you have to remove all of that and go back to square one, possibly including rebuilding the 3D gameplay from the ground up? Sounds good to me, I think they need to revamp everything

>>173941858
You don't need a revamp. Like >>173941812 said, just take what works for Adventure and Boost, combine them, and voila. The hours thing is concerning, but scrapping everything and starting anew got us Lost World.

Honestly, at the end of the day, I just don't trust Sonic Team to be the ones to do it.

>>173942079
I think going clean slate and handing it to a new dev team could be good. Give them the basic instructions of "momentum based 3D platformer" and see what they do. All you need to do is make sure they keep the story minimalistic, as you wanna see if they'll be a good fit and voila

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It's 2 in the fucking morning can you please release whatever video you are gonna upload already, Sega?

>>173940850
The two biggest problems with the bootleg are that the joint connections are loose (which can be fixed with superglue/furniture polish,) and that the feet don't stand flat (which is fine if you're using a stand.)

I'm not a huge fan of the brand in the first place, and honestly the bootleg is pretty comparable to my official SeHa Girls Saturn Nendo. It's definitely lower quality but not unmanagebly so. I think at the time I picked it up it was like $15 shipped compared to $60-$100 for the official, which is worth it. And if you just want it for the accessories you can't really go wrong.

>>173942207
Mania proves that kinda works for the Classic gameplay, but it had a foundation to build on. What kinda fangame would become official if 3D Sonic had to start completely anew?

Assuming it's ever released, is anyone gonna give the new Sonic Runners Adventure a chance now that the FAQ says the character roulette wheel is gone and you could just buy characters straight up as well as getting rid of the online only requirement?

I enjoyed the first game up until the October event when my patience with it finally waned. Sounds like most of my grievances are taken care of.

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>>173942207
>>173942420
I think it would be a great thing if SEGA got together someday, with a bunch of devs and maybe some fan input and they all laid down some basic rules and guidelines that need to be followed for the different Sonic series that we have.
They could realistically have multiple series, starring different characters, maybe in different universes (classic, modern, Boom, etc) with multiple gameplay focuses, all in their own little series, with time to get tested and polished instead of trying to do everything at once and doing nothing perfectly.

This is how Disney handles their cinematic universes, and how studios with long lasting series manage themselves. If you do this then it literally doesn't matter who makes the game because you've given everyone who takes a shot at it the basic foundations, and then even if you make a bad game here and there, you can say that it's just a small bad part of a larger universe, like Star Wars, that has a lot of shitty novels and stories, but they don't make a dent in the overarching universe because it is made up of lots of works by lots of different people.

>>173941812
Call me retarded, and I probably am, but I honestly think open world would work for Sonic.

Now, I don't mean the typical RPG "massive world with fuck all to do" open world. I just mean a seamless and continuous world that the player can freely fuck around in without having to be constrained with individual separated levels. Would allow for good 3D level design if you have a lot of urban environments, would allow for a lot of exploration, would allow for linear gameplay if the player wants to do the bare minimum, would allow for a shit-ton of side missions and challenges.

Again, I'm not thinking of the standard modern open world RPG. I'm thinking of more like an open world driving game where the open world aspect compliments the core gameplay. Obviously it would require a lot of effort to pull it off, but the good thing is that like an open world driving game, the environment design is itself focused on the core gameplay since you could just platform on anything. It'd be one of those games where you could speedrun in maybe a couple hours if you wanted to do a bare minimum any% run, but the 3D environments would allow for a wealth of side content as well as the player being able to take the game at their own pace.

>>173942629
Same boat here, wanted to like Runners but the jewery made me delete it.

This 'leak' sounds like a wet dream.

>>173940542
Games still cost $60 but wages have either stagnated or gotten worse over the years; in the US average wages are on our with what they were in the 60's. Games also largely offer less of a value per dollar than they did in the previous decade, with 6-8 hour QTE fests being the norm.

The vast, vast majority of games aren't worth $60, much less $90. A hundred dollars is a little less than half of the
weekly wages for most American workers.

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>>173941071
>>173941185
>>173942079
>>173942207
>>173942687
I still think that if they made another SA1 adventure style game, but with the fit and finish of a true AAA game, it would be amazing. I would love to see a Sonic game with a huge, expansive overworld in state of the art graphics.

The ideas of SA1 and 2 wasn't their flaw, it was the fact that Sonic Team was too ambitious, didn't know what they were doing, and developed and implemented those ideas poorly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5VBjq0oPZM

>>173942629
Sounds like its what Runners should have been. Honestly if they just kept everything the same but with those changes it'd be gold.

>>173942717
During the beta and before the first patch, I was willing to drop Sega $5 bucks in a way of saying thank you for not making a completely micro transaction hungry phone game but waiting a few months to see if the game would stay that way. When it became clear it was going to be a pain to play for free, that's when I just said fuck it.

>>173942857
Adventure 1 provided a good framework. It wasn't perfect, but you could learn from it to make a better game.

Sonic Team instead went the opposite direction. Compared to everything 1 did, SA2 just wasn't as good.

Except fishing, fuck that.

>>173943028
I'm just glad I didn't spend a cent on that ripoff.

>>173942687
>>173942857
It could work with the Lost World gameplay .Otherwise it wouldn't add that much game time I don't think. Sonic simply needs to be slower if we are ever going to get a longer Sonic game that doesn't just throw quality out the window.

>>173942737
60$ from 1980 are like 90$-100$ of today.
This is very off topic, but Americans suffer the consequences of having the world trade currency. Most other countries suffer inflation and adjust prices and change their values accordingly, but it seems like raising and lowering prices in the US is a very tall order, so cost cutting measures are applied instead, and in the videogame industry this means that the whole world is affected by it.

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>>173943182
Thanks for Sonic Mania anon!

So, let's assume that the silhouetted third player character is, in fact, a custom character. Also assuming that the character creator is at least as robust as the one from Xenoverse, what will your OC donut steel be and how autistic will you make it?

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>>173944217
I'll probably be remaking my old childhood gray fox.

>>173944217
If I do somehow end up with it I'd just stick with the default setup.

>>173944217
I don't like wasting time making characters in games. In games with character creators I just go with the default, mostly.

>>173932876
If they weren't there in that specefic case, not only might you not know which direction to go you would also most CERTAINLY drown.

>>173933308
Maybe you could always try getting good.

But real talk, The long levels never quite bothered me. In fact the long levels are part of the REASON I fell in love with it.
I didn't have nearly as many issues with the controls, glitches or camera. If anything it had less than the Adventure DX and Adventure 2 Battle ports I've played.

>>173944972
>3 hours and half a thread ago

It's 3 PM in Japan right now. They should be putting something up pretty soon.

>>173936796
>>173935863
>>173936442
I imagine if you were to make a 2D game akin to sonic advance with Sticks.

Her max speed would be running on all fours and she might be able to pounce and climb on walls similar to knuckles.

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>>173945160
I'm fucking destroyed, I'm gonna be hitting the bed soon.

>>173944217
I will be pissed if you don't have multiple character slots.

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>>173940232
>She'll paint herself blue
>She wants to shave (perhaps her stomach)

Amy doesn't want to marry sonic.
Amy wants to BE sonic.

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>>173936796
>>173936442
>>173945203
>SEGA
>Sonic Team
>Actually using characters that aren't Sonic more than once

Is Sega going to explain why everything about Classic Sonic in Forces looks like ass?

>>173945460
He's filler gameplay, hardly any different than Werehog. So they don't care. But they're going to realize that the nostalgia's gone for "classic" Sonic, and they need to actually design the 2D gameplay well.

>>173945460
It's still in development is likely the response if they made one.

>>173945460
No, not really.

>>173944217
If they are really going through with this, I want to be able to make Bump and/or Sage.

>>173945460
Depends. If you think the gameplay sucks, then that probably won't change. However, if you're concerned about the textures in Green Hill, then that can be explained by the fact that the game is still in development. Look at the N. Sane Trilogy for the Crash series. Crash fans complained to VV about how the shading looked like ass, there was too much fog, and that the platforms weren't colored in, along with numerous other problems. Come PAX, and most of their problems were fixed. Granted, Sega and Sonic Team aren't as transparent or as accepting of criticism as Vicarious Visions, but that doesn't mean that Green Hill will look like ass in the final build.

>>173946352
I sincerely hope that it's just a test level for figuring out physics or even just a short intro level to explain the controls.

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HEY GUYS HAVE YOU HEARD????? THEY SAY THAT THE TAILS DOLL (FROM THE GAME "SONIC R") IS A DEMON AND IF YOU UNLOCK HIM IN THE SATURN VERSION HE'LL COME AND KILL YOU!!!

>tfw only now remembering several of the things I really want in terms of merch
>tfw couldn't think of anythimg during the stream

I just watched the Chris-chan episode.
You know, if Chris ever did something crazy Sega could get in trouble for egging on an unstable autist.

>>173947505
>You know, if Chris ever did something crazy
You mean being himself?

>>173947552
I mean if he ever hurt someone or even if he killed himself. If it was taken to court someone could make the case that making fun of him resulted in the death.

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>>173940232
Why is there so much art of Sonic girls wearing male character suits?

>>173947651
Japs aren't furries like we are so they need it to be humans.

>>173947625
>I mean if he ever hurt someone or even if he killed himself.
I have a feeling if he ever did something REALLY bad it would be someone else getting hurt, not him.

>>173947505
Chris Chan has already hurt people. He physically assaulted an Assistant Manager at Gamestop with mace or some shit for trying to call security on him when he was already banned from Gamestops in the area for trying to tape his boycott messages on Sonic Boom cases over the blue arms debacle.