Deepest Lore edition
Previous Thread: >>128523015
Dominions is a fantasy turn-based strategy game created by two dudes. One of them is a teacher.
The game combines a simple presentation with an extremely wide array of strategic options, including over 2800 units, 800 spells and 300 magic items. Turns are resolved simultaneously, with players planning battles rather than directly controlling them.
It has simplistic graphics but is easily moddable and extremely deep.
Basically, it's an autist’s wet dream of a strategy game.
Join the steamgroup for multiplayer
>Our work-in-progress wiki
This is a community resource that has every unit, spell, and item in the game in an accessible database.
>Play by email guide:
For testing battle formations and spells
>Where do I get it?
It is available on Gamersgate and Steam. Desura is ded.
>Read the manual
>Read the pastebin
Submit completed games here:
Can travel through hades.
Basically, I'm trying to make a unit that can effectively use a cut-rate stygian path with a much lower range (no gem cost), and during movement phase (preferably).
I'd be happy with flying that only worked on the strategic map. The alternative is doing it with a ritual only that monster can cast, and I really don't want to do that.
Neither does flying. I don't understand how this misconception has stayed alive for this long. Attack rear starts from the back and gives a % chance of attacking that squad, then moves forward until the check passes. That there is no morale check is trivially easy to test, since you get 100% certainty of attacking archers or cavalry or whatever, and longdead and other 50 morale units will not always attack the rearmost squad with mass flight.
In terms of province movement. Not in battles.
I know battle teleportation was broken on some horrors (they didn't flit about properly), but no idea if all teleportation is broken/if that flitting about thing is unique to horrors or the other extremely rare teleporting units are supposed to do that too.
>tfw seriously considering creating x-men mutants nation
>create like 30 mutant troop types, from mostly useless ones like spines to useful ones like beam blasters, flyers, etc
>have them freespawn at extremely low rate
>national commanders are more useful mutants, no magic paths, for huge gold cost, troops are 'human followers'
> two pretenders, Magneto and Professor X, huge newpathcost, their innate paths let them cast one of two branches of national spells
>Magneto gets to create Bio Men, hordes of weaker mutants, various monstrosities, and has a popkill ritual to summon a meteor from space, and is a personal powerhouse
>Professor X can create more elite mutants from his 'training academy', cast a national Eyes of God, Gateway with his troops to places, and cast a remote-spell Enslave, in battle is weak but has an aoe paralyze attack
>candles cause unrest, and magneto's summoned units all have Chaos Power, so if you're going the path of the Brotherhood of Mutants you're going to have unrest issues, and even with Order scales you're going to have some unrest issues
>the x-men are all hero units with better stats and powers than average, and they show up to fight for either pretender
Nations without mages tend to be pretty imbalanced. If you're going to actually make it, you should find some way to fit mages in.
Order vs Chaos sounds pretty interesting, but the summons would need to be really good for people to actually consider chaos when there's a constant unrest effect.
>and undead troops are pretty easy to counter in general
Noob here. Please explain.
Undead troops aren't easier to counter than any other kind of troop, but people have a lot of practice at it thanks to >Ermor
Dust to Dust/Wither Bones oneshots elite undeads, solar brilliance/other battlefield wipe kills huge undead hordes, and mind blast shoots commanders in the rear leaving the mindless undead leaderless, which means they stop moving and slowly die.
There's a bunch of specific spells which don't allow resistances/armor/MR/anything to protect you which only target undead. These are extremely effective against elite undead troops. From memory: Dust to Dust, Wither Bones, Solar Rays, Cleansing Water (also affects demons)
Priests of any level have the spell Banishment, which has a large AoE and has an MR-based chance to do irresistible damage. It also only affects undead (also demons), and is extremely good at clearing large hordes of weak undead chaff because it uses next to no fatigue and can therefore be spammed every turn until the fight ends. Stronger undead/demons tend to have good MR and resist the damage, but it's still decent against them too.
Finally, there's battlefield clear like Rain of Stones/Earthquake/Fire Storm. The main type of undead chaff, longdead, has low hp and only moderate protection and is therefore much more vulnerable to these tactics than most troops.
Great advice thanks. So spells like wither bones are great against lone casters looking to summon a lot of skeletons on the field but battlefield clears like earthquake are great against large hordes of longdeads.
No, wither bones is a very hard to cast aoe undead soul slay. You use it on Lictors, and Wights, and Ghosts.
Against skelespam, you just kill enough skeletons to get things over with, RoS the casters, or mind blast the casters.
>So spells like wither bones are great against lone casters looking to summon a lot of skeletons on the field
They'll work, but priests using banishment is way better for that situation.
Wither Bones and similar spells are more expensive to deploy than banishment and are usually overkill against just skeletons (D2D does 22 damage while longdead have only 5 hp). Ideally you want to use them against targets which have decent HP and are hard to kill with other methods (i.e. elite troops).
>why would you thug an enc 0 tough chassis
thug: a unit designed to take out PD/unsupported raid squads
mage: a unit that nearly always has a spell to kill thugs with
you: bad at dominions
The actual reason you don't thug bane lords/banes much anymore is because prot is weaker in dom4, so they need more gear to take out PD, and you might as well just use a scout with water bottles.
Tartarians? Those and wraith lords are the only ones I've seen, and while everyone knows that Herald Lances will annihilate them, a good tart can transition between SCing and spellcasting with an army when the counter-thugs start coming for them. Wraith lords are at least immortal and stuff.
I've recently had success with black servants equipped with only a vine shield. The life drain attack seems to be enough to beat PD since it adds enough HP to survive a lucky hit and the shield prevents those hits from happening in rapid succession.
>some nations don't have access to those spells
>people generally don't script them unless they see the SC coming
>range/accuracy is generally low enough you can sit the SC in the back row until off-script skellyspam starts
>enc 0 and undead native resists are pretty useful
>tarts are just such a great chassis it's worth dealing with that weakness
Because an SC has mobility. And uses that to confront enemies not scripted with anti-undead-SC spells.
If the enemy is scripted against your SC, it doesn't matter what flavour of SC it is. It's gonna die.
And if your enemy is terrified of your tarts and scripts big piles of mages with anti-tart spells, and you bring a tart or behemoth just to get shot at while your mages do all the work on the distracted enemy mages, that's good times.
Using a wraith lord to thug seems like a waste of a wraith lord. You want them as defensive fuck-you casters, putting up rigor from behind PD or something. I mean, not that I buy them much, I generally use my D for other stuff.
That black servant really sounds like it would die a lot. Vine shield applies after initial hits, so i'd think it would just get first-rounded a bunch. Black servant with armour and just a vine shield sounds to me like it would work, but just the shield? I'll have to test that.
It depends on the nation that it's raiding, but the initial hit thing includes attacks that the ethereal prevents from dealing damage so that's less of a problem than you'd think. I've mostly been just fighting 1-2 PD with them, but I beat 6PD once (weak indies). They'll definitely die to an unlucky hit, but so far I've been doing just fine. It might be worth shelling out another 5 gems to go with the 15 that you've already invested.
Yeah, I think Armor of Knights would actually be enough to do that, albeit with a risk of dying to a lucky first hit before it has the chance to lifesteal above its max HP. I'll try it out and let you know how it goes in a few days if I remember.
>Shardwights aren't good and are undead are easy to counter in general
Shardwights don't have a great statline, but for they're really cheap for elite undead. A 27 damage magic slashing attack at atk 12 (prior to exp) is respectable, their coldaura helps shut down enemies, and they've got huge globs of hp along with decent prot, so they're not that easy to cut or blast through.
Also, they're surprisingly effective underwater.
>Undead are easy to counter
Not really. There are lots of direct counters to undead (banishment, solar rays, cleansing water, wither bones), but Shard Wights are tanky enough to shrug these off unless really massed- and Agartha is fully capable of spawning massive massive amounts of other undead chaff.
team 4, please submit your nation picks.
This game was planned to start in january, lets keep it that way.
You have the wonderful postion of getting to pick 2 nations at once, you should use it.
I know I am, this game is pretty fun
>are we all playing ddda
I just assumed he was right without actually checking. Point still stands 30 gems for an N3 with good randoms is still very worthwhile, especially on a nation with little to no A/S anyways.
It has the promising of something good, but needs an overhaul mod to bring up the pacing enough to be good. If you doubled the AP of every unit in the game, (while doubling ritual cost) and doubled income, you'd be on the right track.
Now as I'm not on a phone, here's the /DOMG/ games I'm in:
More or less true actually, Jotunheim is in Ermors cap ring.
For necromancy with living mages - Sceleria, C'tis, Jotunheim, Utgard, Machaka, Yomi, probably more that I'm forgetting about
For cooler vine skeletons and crazy forest things - Asphodel.
For pure skeletons and a global war against you from the word go - Ermor
I will be when I run my next games. It'll be a bit before then, though. Most of the changes are uncontroversial improvements, and while it does value the win rates very highly the changes look great overall. I think it has the potential to be the new CBM if he continues to iterate on it.
Ah. Just making your last stand then?
Haven't seen much discussion of FirstBreath in the thread, so maybe I should post some battle reports. Had a couple interesting large battles with Lanka in the last few turns.
True. I also frequently read well reputed players saying that LA Ulm is strong, with one saying that it's "Ulm's game to lose" and another listing that as the reason for his not playing them. I think that good players should actually play Ulm more to see if the reputation that it somehow earned with barely any wins actually has any substance to it or if it's just fluff and smoke.
This is my first game as Xibalba, so I'm probably doing at least some things horribly wrong.
I'm going out for now, but I'll post about the fights when I get back in a couple of hours. For now, I'll just leave you with the battle reports.
Here's the first fight, which was a pretty big loss for me even though I managed to hold my ground. I underestimated how much firepower Lanka would bring, so I didn't put up a number of spells which I should have.
>Would be improved by being removed entirely.
No, but it doesn't have to. It just needs a large enough sample size to account for that. The real problem is that the sample sizes are WAY too small, and that's unlikely to change given that this is a game with a tiny playerbase whose games take months to finish.
It's also still (slightly) better than operating based on feels.
And here's the second fight, which happened just this turn and went much better for me.
It won't mean anything at all since it's so badly skewed. You say "feels" are bad, but you can just boot up the mod inspector for stats to understand where those "feels" come from. The stats are true and unbiased data, not the badly drawn winrates.
Ok. Well, if you get the chance to read through the buffs and think that they are unreasonable (as in, they would make the nation too strong) then you should comment on the design document to explain why.
Because the changes stem from a lack of understanding and wants to push the nation in a certain direction rather than help it in a meaningful way.
Hinnom doesn't need more blood and slower chariots, Kailasa doesn't need cheaper summons and cheaper troops, and Helheim certainly doesn't need more buffs due to being an elf nation.
Being able to take a heavy bless is actually a pretty big advantage. It means that you're likely to be able to expand very well, since high tier blessed sacreds need hilariously few units to expand and you can keep spewing out expansion parties to a degree that can match an awake god. It means that you're likely to win an early war and be resistant to an enemy rush by having units that the opponent will need magic to fight. This means that you're likely to be big and strong for a midgame advantage, and when your god wakes up you've got level 9 paths to cast globals and end game magic with.
It really depends. Later on in the game, armies with mage support will clear out horrors and barely notice that they were cast. They do help out with some circumstances, though -
If you catch reinforcements on their own, you can kill them.
You can use them to raid and set provinces independent for scout capping.
You can bop WoD traps
You can sometimes trigger gem spending (the enemy army has to be fairly small for this to work)
Certain horrors will inflict mage casualties with their damage reversal
Armies that are scripted specifically to answer your demons can sustain heavy damage, and your opponents will need to prep for horrors as well with all of their armies which uses up mages.
Are you sure? Never had a doom horror show up with Send Horror with AC up.
I know, and that's why they're great raiding/reinforcement smashing tools. I still don't see how they're that useful against a proper army.
So their use against armies is mainly to force the enemy to employ more resources (mages, gems, etc.) per stack?
>You can bop WoD traps
You mean Wind of Death?
>So their use against armies is mainly to force the enemy to employ more resources (mages, gems, etc.) per stack?
Pretty much. And then if they don't, they can take nasty losses.
Yeah, I know what it is (had middling success with it as Helheim). I was just unsure about the acronym.
Mhh. I'm still not totally convinced about what >>128934039 said about MA Abysia. Gonna have to try sooner or later.
It's really not great, but Blood is a fantastic school and Warlocks are fantastic blood mages. I would definitely not consider MA Abysia to be strong, given that its most efficient mage outside of its cap is like 180 gold for 9 RP, but Warlocks are good enough to win games.
Triggering gem usage is a big component. Horrors aren't demon or undead, plus they often fly as well so they're a nightmare for unprepared or improperly scripted mages to deal with
Would anyone be interested in an LA game on this map?: http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-4-thrones-of-ascensions/forum/thread/the-old-kingdom
I just stumbled across it and thought it looked really dope. It would need at least 8 players.
including picture so you don't have to copy/paste the url.
>Seems like very few places where you can move more than one map tile at a time
Atha Avyn and Biddyn are pretty well designed for map movement.
Ooh, now that is a very nice looking map. Am I understanding right that the actual mountain tiles are open, but they have the temp-based border blocks? I tend to prefer totally opaque mountain tiles, but this is such a great looking map it'd be worth it.
monkey troops are shit, monkey sacreds are magic beings which require magic leadership, which is StR, their sacreds are also expensive for what they are (arrow bait) and they expand like shit.
>You can bop WoD traps
Does WoD last outside the battle? Tooltip makes it sound like it does but seems kind of unusual since I don't think there are any BE enchantments with effects that persist outside of the battle.
Exactly you have to cobble together expansion in a way no other nation does. It's unique sure but it's also fucking pointless. Also their summons are a touch overpriced (5-10 over) or a tad under HPed, either way (10-15 under). Kinara is excluded from that, obviously.
Decay lasts a number of turns after the fight is over.
My friend Jotunheim how goes the fight against Ermor?
I know; we can see from your screenshot that you don't have a scout there. I was actually asking for battle reports in general from those that had them. I quite like battle reports.
Posting known battle reports.
so they have a good midgame, good luck getting to midgame, because you either get shit expansion and then rushed, or you have fine expansion but your research is gimped, because you have to use mages to lead sacreds.
It's turn 14, really. Still very early, though.
That said, I'm a little reluctant to include SA data because they apparently had a serious cheating problem at one point. I'd also note that SA games seem to emphasize early game success, from recent AARs.
Skewing means it's shoved in a direction that can be corrected. In what way are the stats skewed? If you mean that there's too much noise, that's possible, except that the nations generally recognized as strong actually do really well.
This might not be clear from the design doc, since I didn't include the full disclaimer, but all of those changes are actually just a compilation of all the suggested changes from different players. I will not be implementing them. That said, hinnom's blood hunters are roughly as gold efficient as bloodhunting with scouts. If you think they have a different more pressing issue, though, please use the comment function in the doc to share it.
Not all of them are. EA agartha is doing rather well. The very top tier are strong bless, but they are usually good at a lot of things besides bless. It's worth noting that there are plenty of bless nations that aren't doing well. (Bandar Log, Kailasa).
They may not need buffs in the same way that Rlyeh does (As in Rlyeh is unplayable garbage otherwise) but they would benefit from buffs to bring them up from "substantially worse than most nations."
The data may have problems, but I didn't think organization was one. How would you suggest reorganizing it?
I also disagree that it was a knee-jerk reaction. The thread lays out some reasoning behind why I decided to use data - and why I'll also be combining it with my own judgment and feedback from other players.
>I'd also note that SA games seem to emphasize early game success, from recent AARs.
SA meta is
>Rush/get rushed turn 7 by the nearest neighbor
>Lose one battle, go AI
>Win, stay for 30 turns
>Are you top 2-3 nation on the map?
>If not, go AI
They play very agressively but they also give up at the drop of a hat.
Man, that took a lot longer than I thought.
Anyway, I'm only going to do a proper report for the first battle, since the second had both of us using mostly the same tactics. I'll just mention what things went different in battle 2 as I write this out.
First up, the armies. Mine is mainly ozelotl, with beast bats protecting the mages. My important mages (an onaqui with an amazon communion and an E2 spectre with earth boots) were scripted to buff them with Divine Blessing (N9B9), Army of Lead, and Rush of Strength. I wanted Mass Regeneration too, but couldn't get a N3 mage there on time for the fight.
The rest of my mages were scripted with anti-undead spells. Dust to Dust, Wither Bones, Cleansing Water., etc. Boring, but there's not much else to do with death mages against large hordes of longdead, and I had some spectres with water magic not doing anything so I threw them in there too.
Also, perpetual storm is up so nobody can fly.
Yes. There's still room for submissions in that, but that would explain why certain nations do better there than elsewhere. Ulm, for example, is a very strong early->midgame nation, when their lack of path depth, lack of crosspaths, and extreme numbers of mages required for a battle start to hurt.
Large numbers of longdead. Surprisingly few blood summons in there. He's used Dakini before, but not any other Lankan blood summons, and not even as many Dakini as I expected to see. His pretender had N9E5B2. He also brought a very large blob of priests.
He used more big spells than me. Mass Flight, Doom, Earthquake (only a single cast and most of my stuff flies anyway), Antimagic, Rush of Strength, Howl (made me very glad I gave my mages a bodyguard), Fog Warriors, Light of the Northern Star (no idea why, he had something like two astral mages on the field), and Ground Army.
When my pretender woke up I had an N9 caster and not much stuff to use my nature gems on, so I grabbed a few levels of Conjuration and summoned some extra troops. I've since found better uses for those gems, but I have animal summons left over.
In hindsight, I probably should have saved the gems. I recently reached Balams and don't have a lot of nature to summon them with. Stealing Gift of Health from Lanka is probably more to blame than my summoning habits, but even a few dozen more nature gems would be nice.
Gift of Health is massively underrated. It provides a huge bonus to fighting in your dominion / when attacking from your dominion, especially with an N9 bless (which you apparently have)
Lanka's strategy seemed to be spamming Banishment as much as possible while his longdead delayed my troops in melee.
I quickly began to regret putting my Spectre mages inside my Ozelotl blob, since Banishment was hitting them too. Their cold auras also added some fatigue to the Ozelotl, and even managed to freeze one.
My Arch Devils over to the side were geared to hit things in melee, and were buffing themselves.
It's really nice, but I mainly stole it so I didn't have to fight into it. My dominion is currently not even present on all of my own provinces, let alone other people's. Attacking from my provinces isn't an option either, because Perpetual Storm is up and the adjacent provinces are already captured.
This battle was in enemy dominion, so GoH had no effect.
My leogryphs end up fleeing shortly after my ozelotl reach melee. At least they tanked some spells first.
Fog Warriors is now up, and is slowing down my ozelotl's kill rate considerably. My anti-undead spells and some misaimed banishment from Lanka is helping a little.
You may notice one of my Arch Devils has vanished. He got banished to inferno by the Prince of Lust, massacred a bunch of imps, and left inferno the next turn.
The second fight went so much better than this one because Fire Storm quickly removed mistform from everything. The actual kill rate on Fire Storm wasn't massive, but it made my ozelotl kill everything so much faster.
>The actual kill rate on Fire Storm wasn't massive, but it made my ozelotl kill everything so much faster.
Yeah, that's actually a big deal and why I had guessed that Fire Storm was the difference between the two fights when you mentioned that you put up additional spells. It also pops longdead fairly quickly.
Constant Banishment from so many priests and melee combat with myriad longdead is taking its toll on my demons. The Prince of Lust has also set most of them on fire, which is not helping matters.
However, Lanka is losing large numbers of undead holding my ozelotl in place.
Because Lanka's priests are blessed with N9 and buffed with antimagic, blood vengeance is having much less of an effect than I'd hoped for. He ends up losing 4 priests total out of 33, and I'm not even sure they died to blood vengeance.
In the second battle I had fire resistance to prevent my troops being set on fire, and the battle ended much faster so my demons spent less time getting banished by priests.
Lanka's forces start routing, but most stay.
I'm running out of Ozelotl, and there are still many skeletons left.
Lanka's forces finally rout properly right before the death of my last ozelotl. Almost all of the skeletons are dead now, and the rest dissolve quickly once his mages have left.
It's not great. It's got trash mages outside of its cap and its infantry are expensive. What makes it playable is having very good blood mages in its cap and that's about it. Recruit them, do some blood hunting, get some demons going.
Why did he rout? Turn limit?
Last picture. Here's the remnants of my army after the battle. Luckily I had reinforcements within walking distance for the next battle.
I'm not certain. It might have something to do with blood vengeance hurting his priests, or maybe the vampires and markata which died.
It definitely wasn't turn limit since not all his forces routed, just a few priests. >>128961141 might have been turn limit.
you could have just said "git gud" and it would have amounted to the exact same thing as "use diplomacy"
I will not partake in a discussion with someone who can't understand the difference between a tool a player brings to the table and the tools a nation has natively.
>Bandar log isn't a bless nation.
It has recruit everywhere ok sacreds, cap only tiger riders, sacred mages, and sacred summons using three different gem types in addition to blood. You can play them without a bless, but pretending they're not a bless nation, or playable as one, is silly.
Ulm's blood hunters are 175 gold, until they get vamps running. Vamps are pretty nice as multiuse skelspammers/shadowblasters/defensive raiders/blood hunters, but you need to design your pretender around them, and they still don't give you any of the path depth you desperately need. Having blood is nice, but you don't have the paths to do anything cool (horrors) with it without spending a ton on boosters, some of which you can't easily access without empowerment. Basically, this is still a strong mid-late game power.
Rejakor's marveni build actually works reasonably well in early game. Marveni is harder to rush than people think, and it's deterrents are markedly better than Kailasa's deterrents. Anyway, diplomacy is mostly irrelevant to the issue of national balance. It's not an intrinsic trait of the nation, as its entirely independent of stat or unit the nation has, but instead applies to pretty much all the nations equally. By that standard, as long as a nation has a late game, it's balanced.
Blessing is an advantage, but out of the top five nations in EA, two aren't that sacred focused. (Agartha, Fomoria). Both can still benefit significantly from a bless, but that's not a defining strategy the way it is for Xibalba, Lanka, and Vanheim. There's a pretty good mix of heavy bless and non/pseudo bless nations all the way down, with Berytoes, Marveni, Therodos, and Ulm filling the next few spots.
Similarly, in MA, the top three nations are Ermor, Ulm, and Agartha. Ermor and Agartha are generally (and optimally) played with blesses (though agartha frequently just takes N9, which is hardly "heavy"). Ulm, however, is not.
Depends how long the game is, what your research is like, and what your alternatives are. Vampires are decent bloodhunters, but they can be pretty endgame. They also don't snowball quickly enough to compete with the "real" blood powers, though they can provide a serious supplement.
The "changes" are not implemented changes. It's literally a list of changes from different balance mods, most of which will not get used.
The stated standard of the mod is "if it is under-performing in wins in reported games, it gets examined for buffs. Nations that are already getting wins probably do not need buffs." All of those nations qualify under this standard. I'll use my judgment and input from various players on what changes, if any, are appropriate.
Ichtyid mod guy here.
Can somebody check if sacred pegasus rider are too powerful to be recruit-anywhere? You all know that I'm bad at balacing.
>26 defense with W9
Also, the dwarves, man, THE DWARVES.
I may be over-cautious, but....
Also compare them to wind riders, asside from less armour and a sword instead of a lance they're strictly better, and though Wind Riders aren't that popular they aren't weak.
There's a couple of potential ways but most are basically give them better bows, either an era up or make a special short bow that has two attacks a round. They might need to cost slightly more but at the moment for being superb archers they lose to indie archers in a shootout.
Seems reasonable, pending extensive testing and all, and makes them remarkably good at archery beyond all other archers but not overall better which fits with balance and what you seem to be going for.
I'm going to take a different stance from the others, and argue that they're actually UP.
They have the hp of normal humans, they have just about no protection, and their secondshape is useless. They're also size 4, which means they have 2 attacks per square, of which only one does decent damage.
The only thing I'd even consider using them for is flying raiders, and maybe not even that given they're 50 gold each and would probably need a bless.
I'd argue that wind riders for Arcoscephale are actually pretty terrible and blessing them is a waste of points.
I also think you're wrong about these troops being better than Wind Riders.
>they're strictly better
In what ways are they better than Wind Riders?
I can only see encumbrance and defense, both of which seem to be a consequence of Wind Riders actually having armor.
>asside from less armour and a sword instead of a lance
Both of those are really important though.
Wind Riders' lance gives them a 22 damage attack on their first hit and lets them instagib weak targets, or seriously harm stronger ones.
Armor is vital because your sacreds are going to get shot up by archers set to fire cavalry if you don't have it.
>mfw there are people in this very thread who unironically talk about balance with respect to winrates when winning is almost entirely determined by expansion phase and who stales/goes AI less often
>back to home after doing an exam
>10 minutes until the turn is over
>finish the turn fast (it was 50% done)
>send it scared it was too late
N-nice, but i got scared ;_;
>been playing dominions 4 with /domg/ for ~1.5 years
>have never been in a game that wasn't radically affected by people staling or going AI out of nowhere
Absolutely fucking amazing. Who would have thought this game can still surprise me.
>Taking stalewarriors seriously
>Caring about stalling
What a gimp
winning is almost entirely determined by expansion phase and who stales/goes AI less often
Isn't it strange how vanheim, xibalba, lanka, and fomoria almost never seem to go ai, and yet kailasa, rlyeh, and Abysia seem to stale out or go ai all the time?
If I didn't know better, I'd say that nation strength played a role there, but as we all know, it's simply down to expansion phase and ais.
I do feel like the winrate spreadsheet needs to be taken with a grain of salt, especially with nations with low sample size, but claiming it's all about stales/ai is a far more stupid statement.
Though Ulm might be the exception for that given that one fucker.
Yeah. Winrates aren't a perfect signal of nation strength, especially for unpopular nations, but some of the attempts to explain them away are ridiculous.
>given that one fucker.
I tried hunting down who it was, and I'm pretty sure that it wasn't one guy. It was like two or three newer players and one asshole that did it twice. It seems largely coincidental and/or cursed.
You are about to be out m8, there's an army of heavy shit going for your northern army and i can't see anything in your army that might save your butt.
you best have a sneaky masterplan that involves destealthing demon cleansing and sollar brilliance casters.
Because people who play bless nations are tryhards that are more involved into the game. Picking a bless nation is a conscious choice that you are playing to win for real because they require capitalizing on the bless instead of chilling out and playing sims.
I never really intended to beat him, I just felt like making a stand. I didn't think AC was ever going to get dispelled, so I attacked him (this was before you announced you were dispelling it).
We'll just see how my heavenly demons deal with his jaguar demons. What's his bless, anyways?
Also I forgot that solar brilliance affected demons too
>We'll just see how my heavenly demons deal with his jaguar demons.
They'll get murdered because they take darkness penalties and jaguars don't. Jaguars are also all around better summons .
You'll get swarmed and murdered in a few turns.
>Also I forgot that solar brilliance affected demons too
It removes darkness effect thus equalizing the lack of darkvision.
Oh well. I kind of stopped caring about this game after so many turns of AC.
bats too stronk, pls nerf
Technically, he did it in 4 games, but only two of them were domg/vanheim games.
So blesses don't provide an advantage, they're just taken by the sort of player who wants to win? Did you think this through?
Pymous just released a new map! Snerdryn (117+19) (wraparound) http://www.moddb.com/mods/project-omniomicon/addons/snerdryn
Given that xibalba had only a couple games when the game began, I'm actually kind of impressed at how they've developed over time. They've made a lot of rookie errors, but they haven't made them repeatedly.
Incidentally, I just took Ulm for a spin in a blitz and had a blast with them.
The non-national part should be good to go after today, I hope. I figured out what I was doing wrong in terms of spellmodding, (which was resulting in the wrong masks getting assigned for new spell effects) and dom4mods helped me with some ideas for making the construction summons more interesting. Once I implement them I'll read through the changelog since I've just been throwing things in there without checking, and then on to national changes.
The national change section will be released by age. Would you be interested in EA or MA first?
While there's much more substance and discussion to the MA changes already in the design document (probably just because that's what you started with), I think that MA Ermor will remain stupid with the proposed dom changes. It will take either serious thought from a design perspective or just games with more experienced players to stop them from stomping noobs, and I don't want to try to make the signups elitist.
>Given that xibalba had only a couple games when the game began, I'm actually kind of impressed at how they've developed over time. They've made a lot of rookie errors, but they haven't made them repeatedly.
What do you think of the temperature and infrastructure changes? Or is something still needed to prevent lictorballing?
if i could figure out a way to make them start at death 3 dominion, I would do it in a heartbeat.
I think that your changes are good overall. However, I think that they're best tested with a more experienced set of players than the average /domg/ game will get, given that Ermor is notoriously easier to play than to play against.
Worth every euro.
desura is bankrupt and not paying game developersor delivering copies of the game anymore, so illwinter jacked up desura prices to prevent people from buying it
You totally got me with that bitches damn. Should have checked before the real siege, but since it was breached in one turn i thought it was an easy fortress.
Ancestors too strong pls nerf.
By the way, the suggestion that was given on Dom4mods about giving the siege golem AoE attacks is good.
If you're worried that it would make it too strong (but we're talking about a Const9, which is already a not great school), give him a single attack instead of two. Just picture it gorilla-smashing the ground at its feet.
Attack largely doesn't matter if the thing you are summoning isn't bread and butter massable troop.
If it's commander it's going to rely on magic or brands providing mass killing power, if it's big expensive summon it better have aoe breath or something special, otherwise it's just a sack of meat.
Attack on singular units only has use for building an anti thug so it can hit with duskdaggers and at late game you've got a bunch of other solutions for killing thugs and scs. And siege golem wouldn't even be a good anti thug/sc.
Siege golems aren't commanders (in this mod or vanilla)
It's const 7 in this mod. I could revert that change and give it aoe hammers instead, but that's a bit bizarre.
It'd mostly be an obvious way to smash up enemy lifeless thugs with boosted attack, since most big lifeless units have really shitty defense. At 10 gems it'd be pretty economical in that role.
They aren't generally clustered, you memesters. The hex-grid is there for a reason.
I initially thought the same, but then I looked at potential starts and realized that it was mostly a nonissue. In one of his previous popular maps, one of the cave start locations has only mountain and cave borders, which is great for resources, but then largely more mountains, caves, and marshes when expanding out from there. This left it so that the player starting there was often gold starved. This map greatly reduces this issue by putting a plains province and a farm province adjacent to the cave, and all of the other mountain provinces except for one small one have either a forest connection, a plains connection, or both.
Nah, I'll just finish devouring Ur and Kailasa alive, then if he hasn't actually attacked, just annex what he owns of India from him, including Lanka's capital.
Unless Pelagia owns Lanka's capital, haven't got vision over there.
>dat total fucking smackdown on CovertPenguin
Look at that first post by sum1won, he went off the fucking handle, by his standards, and ripped the poor faggot a new one. Left him going "W-well I can totally win as them easy but I also win as weaker nations of course". Demolished him.
>World is a wasteland because of armageddon
>World is dark because of utterdark
>Horror coming from the sky to kill one of the few survivors as he tries to cast magic
What's not to get?
Clearly underwater ghosts should win, just so we can skew Therodos' winrate even more than it already is.
For memes, lads. Do it for the memes.
Is it possible to make an item that heals the owner's afflictions, but nobody else's? (grants recuperation)
Is it possible to do this via eventmodding, so that an event targets the owner of the item and heals an affliction?
How do I make a spell automatically target the caster, and only the caster?
Wouldn't taking a dumb bless be the opposite of tryharding? I'd think tryharding would be like, maximum scales + earth snake or something.
And I might as well do something other than summon a vampire now and then.
I can't even bloodhunt in my capital anymore, it's under 5k and almost no resources so further bloodhunting would ruin my ability to recruit anything.
Define properly finish. Because I've seen games where one player controlled most of the map but getting thrones would be a waste of everyone's time.
Speaking about wasting everyone's time...
Rus, anime memer, what's your Steam? I need this kind of dedication in my games.
>How do I make a spell automatically target the caster, and only the caster?
Seems to require you to set aoe to battlefield-wide but not add a range attribute, from what I found here.
You could also probably copy a self-targeted spell and change the values if that doesn't work.
I need 2 turns, just like before. I didn't think Rus would be such a tryhard (in a good sense) tbqh, family.
This time I'm teleporting 1k sacreds along with mage support. I hope to cast every battlefield enchantment possible in that fight.
Nothing to post, really. Rus is slowly capturing my territory, and I just don't care and teleport shit around with Stygian Paths. All my thrones have forts and 500+ ghouls/militia, and I can always WoD any big army that would have any chance to damage the walls.
Does Arcane Nexus benefit from your own spells and crafting? I got it up in MP, and I have a mage capable of casting wish. I was thinking of the following:
-Wish for gems, get 25 of each type
-Use the gems other than pearls, get 75 pearls back through Nexus
Yay or nay? Also, suggestions regarding what to spend the various gems on are accepted. I have pretty much full diversity, playing EA Agartha.
this is known as the 'arcane nexus + wish combo'
it is the standard lategame astral combo. if you get an alteration site, it gets REALLY dumb.
you only get 25% of your gems to pearls from nexus, though.
>have easy to use sacreds
>has easy to dump scales
>but hey lets not bother using a bless since these troops are not murder machines!
it's not like getting a 9x/4x is that taxing on bandor log
Seriously though, I'm fine with playing this thing all the way to its conclusion, regardless of how long it takes.
There is no stopping the fun, friends.
I'm also gonna call bullshit on this. Depending on your definition (i.e. actually ending in someone capturing all necessary thrones) you could basically exclude most games played here. At least that's been my experience with /domg/ PBEMs (only 2 of the PBEMs I've played in ended in someone actually capturing the necessary thrones, even though most of the others had a clear "winner" and were simply declared over by the admin)
>Don't want to take turn but going AI would fuck up the game for everyone else
It's also not what I do. I count games with a conclusive winner, which includes games where there is a clear winner but it is declared over by the admin.
What I don't count are games where everybody kind of gives up and calls it a draw, or games that similarly end early with nobody in the lead. There are a lot of these.
I'm pure and utter noob, still looking up how to do the Llamaserver stuff properly. Anyways, I'm mostly familiar with Ermor but I understand there are diplomatic problems involved with that nation, to say the least. Bad idea for a first multiplayer game?
Ah, hell, at the very least I just get wiped early and don't have to show off my embarrassing lack of knowledge about the lategame.
Wow, I did my whole turn without even noticing that. I didn't even remember their was a Pythium in the game, since my my scouting options are outside acceptable budget range.
No, feel free to play ermor if you want. To be honest, most ermor players have a diplomatic mission which consists solely of meme-posting and being humongous faggots. So I suspect that if you make an effort diplomatically then people will go easier on you. As far as learning actually goes, Ermor plays quite differently than almost all other nations, so I wouldn't recommend them if you're still learning game mechanics. If you're comfortable with them though, go ahead.
> Playing RevengeOfFlatus, doing okay for myself. Fighting hard through some wastelands for 17 gold/province
> Decide to start a test game to check out some of the outer planes
> Blood Plane provinces have no defenders, all provinces earn 150+/turn, pic related
Is there even a point to playing? I heard Latus was unbalanced but I didn't realize that some nations started with 10 free Farmlands.
Forgot pic, kinda like the map forgot to put independent defenders.
Ah, I've got the mechanics well in my grasp. It's just strategy I need some work on. Planning to learn a lot, regardless of how well I do.
I do enjoy being The Bad Guy in a lot of games, so that's another aspect of Ermor that appeals to me. I can promise no memeshit and faggotry.
Tiger riders are expensive and fragile
White Ones are expensive and not very strong
Asparas are pretty bad at fighting
Gandharavas are expensive
Only your mages really matter, and all of them can easily self buff but you lack any good way to bless them outside of Siddhas
How do you get into blood if you only have a B9 god to start with?
Blood hunt a lot and empower commanders/magess? There aren't a lot of non-unique summons, and i think only vampire lords have blood magic.
You're pretty fugged if you don't have any recruitable blood mages or national blood summons. Empowering using your blood income from your god is pretty much the only way unless you just happen to have a lot of research dropped into blood already to summon the commanders, which are all pretty expensive anyway.
>Blood hunt a lot and empower commanders/magess?
That's probably your best bet. Try to empower a death mage so you can get vampire lords.
There really aren't a lot of reasons to get into blood if you don't have national summons or recruits.
You don't want to get blood if you don't have native/indie B mages.
>blood economy takes time to set up if you don't start early
>needing to research Blood along with other, often more useful paths
Don't go there if you don't know exactly what you're doing.
When do i use horror seed? If you want to damage an army, Send horror is better.
Is it supposed to be to stop raiders? to spam it in a really big army and move around without fighting the army?
Sorry. I understand it's sort of a pain, but if someone asks me to extend for them, Im generally gonna help em out instead of letting them go AI.
what up pan.
well, you guys know the drill. send me pearls, I fix the problem.
seems this deep one spends all his time getting rid of toxic globals. talk about unexpected Rl'yeh strats.
Tengus are the reason why Yomi/Shinu/Jomon are great.
>being this much of a pussy
The first Flatus game we played I was a complete noob who rushed and made a shitty pretender in the last minute and got placed in a shit location and I didn't quit.
>third turn got staled
>implying I'll be staling any turns from here on out
I started in a shitty enough location I'm banking on at least a few other people staling to keep me in the game.
This is the spell only good players use. And it have to be cast repeatedly on the certain doomstack, and preferably when your mage has some Penetration (checks mr). As the result mentioned doomstack will be filled with Horrors who is inside the comanders (5 per turn), then just 1 RoS and all the Horrors will pop up killing remnants of the army. Cute stuff, promise you.
Yep, it's necessary. That way we can not fear Nexus anymore. Unfortumately I haven't been able to kill Pelagian Global-caster with it, can't be helped.
For me Therodos, Arco and you (but only as the strongest nation on the map) are the top rivals. AC helps me to somehow put you in check.
Monkfish, this spell in your biggest interests, think twice before dispelling it.
Someone died? Please tell me if yes. I'd fap.
We are Blood buddies, right? Let's be good.
But generally I just wanted some attention. I am honorably dedicating this Global to any small nation in the game. We have pride and we are capable to making some impact on thos big-ass faggots who is gonna win. Cheers, Caelum, Pangea, Ermor and others I am not aware about!
>Do they just end up with afflictions randomly because of old age?
>How do I stop this?
Growth scales, boots of youth, elixir of life, fountain of youth, cure all elixir, diseased/infliction curing units.
Every Late Winter, age gets checked. Old units (usually mages) have a chance to acquire afflictions.
Get a Disease Healer to at least avoid losing mages completely. Most afflictions don't significantly hamper spellcasting. You'll need an actual Healer to counteract afflictions, but those are far harder to come by.
Makes sense that it happens in late winter I guess.
>Growth scales, boots of youth, elixir of life, fountain of youth, cure all elixir, diseased/infliction curing units.
Nice to know, the construction requirements on those items is high-ish though. I'm guessing things like Rejuvenation and Blood Feast are a good way to deal with it if it's happening to individual important mages (with blood magic) rather than branching out into nature magic which I don't necessarily have. Thanks.
Meh, I was spending my gems as fast as I was getting them, so I cold use a 6 to 7 turn saving period anyway. Maybe I'll save enough to put my own global up.
Ur's dead in 3, maybe 4 turns btw, unless he has some neat surprise.
Ermor my friend you cant take my water I own it.