>PROJECT M EXPUNGED ALTOGETHER FROM APEX 2015, INCLUDING SALTY SUITE
is this the biggest case of
>its ok if nintendo does it
fuck this jewipponese companese
>fgc used a modded sf before capcom support
>dropped it once capcom started supporting them
>pm being dropped now that nintendo stepped in
>pm babbies throwing a tantrum
>it's okay when pmtoddlers does it
when will they learn
Apex has decided to side with corporate instead of consumer. They don't care about us. They don't care about the players or the fans, only their own paycheck. We must all boycott this tournament and make it clear none of us will watch or participate until Project M is reinstated. As apology, Brawl must forever be removed from the tournament, Project M can take its place.
We have to make our voices heard. Don't let them push us around
>Apex was once the biggest Project M tournament host
>Apex promised us Project M mainstage for this year because of the huge success last year
>Suddenly they tell PM players to fuck off because Nintendo is suddenly involved
It's not like I'm whining that it's not at Evo or anything. But Apex promised us PM and now it's like they're selling out. Nintendo can just decide what and what doesn't play at Apex if they throw enough money at the tournament organizers.
I don't think excluding the game from Apex is the right move, but of course Smash 4 needs that little push right now. Nintendo wants to help the scene happen so Melee and PM aren't the only ones people play forever.
Alright, I can see where Nintendo's coming from. They can't acknowledge that Project M exists because of copyright nightmares; especially considering the fact that the modders are editing Snake and Sonic, who they don't have the rights to anymore (well, Sonic's in there, but you know what I mean). They can't say "We support a game that requires you to hack your Wii/do some files stuff on the PC in order to work."
It's alright, we've got dozens of other tourneys that they can take place at.
>b-but i've been improving my skills on it.
The n word.
So, when you say shitty product, you are talking about PM, right?
>mfw all the Melee players on Twitter expressing apathy or outright mocking PM
>nintendo doesn't give a fuck about the tourney scene for years and almost shut it down last year
>when they do get involved they don't actually support it like Capcom, they just force it into being an ad vehicle
I don't give a fuck about tourneys, and I'll be getting Smash WiiU, but this is still kind of dickish. Didn't really expect better from them though, least they aren't SEGA.
At least PM actually gives alts to most characters rather than Smash 4 just giving them to a few, and making the alts of Sakurai's favorite characters full blown character slots. Surely it would've been easy for Nintendo to give everyone alts, but
>muh character identity
I really don't get why Nintendo fans on /v/ hate fan projects so much. Only reason I can see is that they see every Nintendo game series as so perfect that they see mods or fangames as an insult to Nintendo's game devs. At least Metroidfags are so desperate for games that they aren't shitting on the M2 fan remake.
PM 3.5 really makes me wish that Sakurai didn't waste dev time on stupid shit like Smash Run and Tour and just gave us even more options in Smash mode. Surely as an actual dev he could come up with even more creative and fun things than AllStar Versus and stock/boundless Stamina. 8 Player Smash looks fun as fuck, but it looks like pretty much the only brand new thing when it comes to the main mode of the game.
All Star Verses
Basically, you choose more than one character before the match, and then during the game each stock switches between the characters you chose. It's really neat.
You have stamina with stocks as well as the option to play with/without boundaries and with/without increasing knockback. It also added All-Star Versus, where you can assign a different character to each of your stocks. It also has some more minor things like adding a new item that allows any move to combo into another for a short time, and gives each of PT's Pokemon a unique FS.
Link can also play his ocarina as a secret taunt.
I think PMfags are the salty ones in this case
But about 40% of the alts in PM are garbage. Not to say some like Mewtwo's aren't great but stuff like Lucario's is just awful and a waste of effort. In fact that is how I feel the development of PM has gone wrong. They just throw all the shit they can think of in so it becomes less focused. They have some good ideas but making every character have moves to counter every other character's moves just isn't good balancing.
I belive Smash Tour brings something along those lines too to the core gameplay.
While on the board you collect trophies and fighters. Trophies give you effects, like "starting the battle with X item" or stuff like that, and fighters are just that.
When players clash in the map, everyone must fight and every fighter you've collect represents a different stock. So if you collected, say, Fox, Luigi and Mac, you will start with Fox and get Luigi when you die, then Mac.
I guess Master and Crazy orders are also different since they bring specific rules into matches.
It's certainly not without issue, but it's good enough to be fun for me, just like even though Smash 4 has many of the same issues Brawl did, it fixed them to a degree that it's fun again.
cause they're the ones shitposting xDD amirite
>guys who have no jobs and lots of free time can mod in a few extra cloths while a dev team who has time constraints an deadlines can not
stop the fucking presses...its not that fucking impressive let these fags make their own game from the ground up with dead lines and the job to please many fans and not just themselves
>Get this through your heads you autistic motherfuckers. Project Manchildren will never EVER be in any tournament that nintendo is involved in.
As far as mods go, Project M is a pretty good one.
>looks like Brawl and has Melee gameplay
This is the most important fact, since so many people like Melee better than Brawl.
>adds old characters, tons of alts, rebuild stages
This is all pretty good too.
I'm also sure that they had to mess up pretty deeply with the game to alter it so much, but honestly, this is still just a mod with a nice comp scene going. It's far from being as important as a real, maingame Smash game like Smash 4 is.
A new Smash only comes out once every 6 or 7 years, so it's important that Smash 4 gets some spotlights. Specially when it feels so good to play.
I like the scene 3DS has already, but I'm hoping that the Wii U one is even bigger.
>This is the most important fact, since so many people like Melee better than Brawl.
Then why not just play melee?
I don't get it. With literally any other game, even other Nintendo game, /v/ is super critical and skeptical of new entries. But when it comes to Smash, people will happily jump on the newest entry and believe the company at their word when they say it's the best one yet, and shit on anyone who dares criticize it. It's really bizarre, Smash Bros fans are the least demanding on /v/ when it comes to gameplay.
Melee is 13 years old, man. You can only play a fighting game with 25 fighters so much.
What people don't get is that this userbase that hates Brawl and loves Melee is very little. Hell, even saying that it reaches 100k is streching it a little bit.
Meanwhile the real Smash games have a much bigger fanbase of millions upon millions. It's only nautral that Nintendo tries to stir up a comp scene with so much potential.
It's an unofficial mod. How many unofficial mods do you have in the fighting industry? Why not... simply play the real games? Play Melee, play Brawl and play Smash U.
Why do you need Project M, when it's not a real game? You like the Project M guys? Ask them to make a real game. Make them do a real "Smash clone" and publish it. Hell, I'm sure Sony would LOVE to have a Smash clone that worked.
Some people actually expect sequels to improve on a game in a way other than "we put in more things". Recent Smash games have been kind of disappointing, even purely from a casual perspective. Brawl in particular really lacked the energy that 64 and Melee did. Hopefully Smash 4 will recapture that when I'll be able to play it when I can actually couch it and not just play For Lag and For Little Mac SDs.
>playing any non-MOBA game competitively
People are surprised by this? P:M only survived because it was the "newest" Smash and Nintendo was ignoring it. Now that Smash 4 is out it's irrelevant. If Smash 4 turns out to be completely "uncompetitive" (even though Brawl supposedly had that label its scene still lasted for years), then people will just move back to Melee.
Expecting a fan mod to become top dog is hubris by the devs and delusion by the fans. The most they can hope for is that in five years the Wii U will have homebrew.
Because mods are often more fun than the base game. Brawl is basically the Skyrim of Smash games, only in this case mods like PM and Brawl Minus can actually make it fun instead of a mediocre porn gmae.
>Smash Bros fans are the least demanding on /v/ when it comes to gameplay.
Except for Pokemonfags. shit hasnt changed in 18 years and they keep buying the same game twice too. But I guess its the same audience since its also made by nintendo
>They fixed everything wrong with the game before it
Kind of easy when you intentionally fuck up the previous game with shit like losing control of your character at complete random.
As far as I'm concerned, it was a good a mod made to do something about Brawl's INSANELY terrible design choices.
But there is a Smash 4 out now with Nintendo's support. There's no need for the mod anymore except for archival reasons.
That being said I do think it's pretty fucking lame that thy're not even allowed to side tournament it, that's uncool.
They might still eat the shit up, but at least I see pokemon fans bitch to some extent when GF removes features for no reason other than laziness. Smashfags won't take any criticism of Sakurai unless it's over their favorite character getting in.
this just makes me sad,
i hate when companies preffer money over consumer
i know it is like that 90% of the time, but still sad.
if you are going to do something, dont do it for the money only, do it for the feeling you are doing something good
>people complaining about this are the same who are complaining about balancing patches coming next week
>nintendo fans are so delusional that they consider a mod made by other nintendo fans to be "antinintendo"
Oh man, the shills telling people to report homebrew and piracy to Nintendo are serious, aren't they.
>Expecting a mod of a game to be used at a tournament instead of the newest version of the game
>Expecting a mod to be used in any tournament setting
You cannot be this fucking dumb, can you?
none apex was only allowing project m in last year as a side tournament, this year it is getting a pot bonus and sponsorship by nintendo so no mods, ever since capcom has been sponsoring events rainbow edition has not been allowed a spot in tournaments
Man, and I used to think that /v/ was overly hostile to Nintendo fans. I'm actually starting to miss the days around the 3DS and WiiU launches.
>competitive smash shitters
not being able to hack it at a real fighter doesn't make you a nintendo fan
It contradicts what you wrote here>>272328183
>" It's only nautral that Nintendo tries to stir up a comp scene with so much potential."
Again, why make smash 4's gameplay a piece of shit then?
people loved a bunch of old street fighter mods that were some big side tournaments, capcom starts sponsoring the tournaments and those games are removed.
yet when it happens to smash "boohoo my mod" grow the fuck up when the FGC is more mature then you, you have problems
>You can only play a fighting game with 25 fighters so much.
nigga you could play Melee until the end of time even with just the 14 characters in A and S, the mechanics are just that solid. the occasional wacky shit like Amsa's Yoshi and DJNintendo's Bowser are just enjoyable for laughs every now and then.
Hell, even with just the S tier - Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth, Jiggs, Peach, Cap and ICs- you've got a massive spread of playstyles and attributes, that's why people still play Melee despite how hard it is to be a low tier hero
Anon the amount people that actually play Project M isn't nearly as big as the people that are going to go out and buy smash 4.
Hell they sound like they weren't even going to move on from Project M at all.
Yeah I guess all those people playing and enjoying Smash 4 right now aren't real fans. Same thing with all those tournaments, those aren't real, unlike muh fan mod which is what all the truly true real legit fans are playing. Truly eye opening, thank you.
>Smash 4 gameplay is not shit is the most balanced Smash
I'd rather have a deep and interesting game with a relatively limited roster of viable characters (Melee) than a somewhat balanced game that has all the depth of a kiddie pool (Smash 4).
Smash fanboys are defensive as hell
also they tend to be invasive on other fanbases with their bullshit and hype and *shit on anything that isn't approved by Nintendo or made by Nintendo themselves
(* = this isn't exclusive to Smash fans [Mother elitists, Mario fans, etc.])
At least Capcom actually gives a shit about their community. Nintendo is just giving the minimum support for the sake of advertising. If they actually gave a shit about these tourneys, they would've made sure it was actually thought of in the game design.
The fact that it is a mod means I should not have any expectations of it ever making it into events least alone main ones. P:M being at Apex last was surprising but I can't say anything against this decision.
I like P:M alot. And despite playing it mostly with 4 folks on Free for All with items, it is a really impressive mod not just with the weird physic changes.
I don't get the hate from the casuals for it though. Because the majority of the userbase are fags? Well ok,but we've been dealing with Meleefags (and still are) for some time now. Someone told them if they didn't like Brawl, make their own game. And they did.
I actually kind of like it over Brawl now. Here's the even crazier thing, I think I'm going to enjoy this alongside Smash 4 as well.
>Yeah I guess all those people playing and enjoying Smash 4 right now aren't real fans.
By /v/ standards, no, a lot of them aren't. Just like nobody would call Wii Sports players big fans.
oh like street fighter x tekken, or vanilla marvel 3? again fuck you nintendo has been no different then capcom all that is different is project m was bigger then any street fighter mod
Well that depends on how long PM will stick around. It's definitely going to last at least another year or two and is already slated for a bunch of big tournaments besides Apex but its status as a mod will prevent if from being at any large official events like MLG and EVO and it'll probably die out shortly thereafter.
Again, you have opened my eyes with your insightful posts, you truly know how things are. You know what games are real and not real, you know what fans are real and not real, you're a regular prophet.
They legally can't C&D it because of a label they put on the back of the Brawl case saying it accepts custom SD card content. Since Project M is loaded through the SD card, it technically counts as custom content unless it is loaded from a modded brawl ISO or emulator.
And chess is over 1000 year sold. If a game is good then it's good and people will continue to play it. Since Brawl and Smash 4 don't play better than Melee, people will keep playing Melee.
>People who blindly praise Sakurai for continuing to make a game for the Wii audience despite the Wii audience having long abandoned Nintendo
If anyone actually argues this they are a drone plain and simple.
>accept official sponsoring at the expense of roughly 400 entrants
I guess you don't know Juggleguy. It won't happen. I wish there was some way for me to rub it in your face when TBH5 has more entrants for PM 4.0 than Smash 4, but this is 4chan and it's anonymous, so you'll just sink back into the shadows to shitpost about some other subject you know nothing about.
I can actually envision the tears rolling down your face
wow they sure do not sell out being sponsored by twitch and xsplit, of course he will fucking sell out he already has just not to someone who offends you.
>this same faggot
where's that picture of the guy admitting he always shitposting in Nintendo fangames, homebrew, and PM threads and crying about it?
>They don't care about the players or the fans, only their own paycheck.
>They don't care about the entitled man babies getting them into trouble who never gave a cent to begin with.
You are such a faggot I am surprised you are not spamming the gg hashtag on twitter right now.
How about you get the files and host them? Unless you admit you are an useless sack of shit.
Just for PM. Nintendo wants absolutely no presence of the community made mod so that Smash4 has it's fair shot.
It's not asking that much I think. It's not the last we'll see of PM at tournaments UNLESS by some chance Smash4 becomes the holy savior of Smash that can somehow be played as competitively as PM can.
I mean odds are pretty low but it could happen.
People who watch Project M and want to play Project M there are not everyone. I never said that. But they're people who are part of the community that helps TBH bring in money.
>P:M fans hate Nintendo for getting rid of their game at the event it's been at for years
>Smash 4 fans get dumped on because P:M/Melee fans hate it
>both fanbases constantly argue because they can't agree on anything
>just like Brawl and Melee
>implying Ninty money will end up in Apex's prize pool
it will be used to line Alex Strife's pockets which is all that really mattered to Nintendo in the first place. he'll end up mismanaging the entire event and relying on desperate last minute favors at the expense of kind strangers (who he will then not compensate even if he promised to), just like he does literally every fucking year
this is the community that persisted for 14 years without so much as a nod from Nintendo. in fact they're only interaction with NoA was to butt heads over the Evo ruleset and the braindead decision to prevent Melee from headlining Evo 2013. if anything, being in Nintendo's pocket is an indicator of duplicity and selling out in the eyes of fans
>Selling out is the compromising of integrity, morality, authenticity or principles in exchange for personal gain, such as money
Can you elaborate on what exactly he compromised or gave up by accepting sponsorship money?
he must use xsplit to stream said tournament and must stream it on twitch, so he is already willing to limit himself and sell out are you fucking retarded, its a smash only tournament if nintendo decides to back it he will say yes as he is already willing to sell out man smash fags are the worst kind of retard
>inb4 but there the best services and most popular so what if he is forced to use them
it is still selling out and proves he will suck nintendos dick
Accepting a sponsorship from a company to pull a game from your scene and accepting a sponsorship from a company that just requries running advertisements are two completely different things.
>FINE FUCK NINTENDO IF THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THEIR FANS I DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THEM
>it will be used to line Alex Strife's pockets
Your butthurt is already showing.
The Smash community has existed but also YEARNED for legitimacy. They'll not back down because a few modders lose perks.
>and must stream it on twitch
Well yeah, that's the default streaming service for Smash Bros. and VG Bootcamp is the premiere channel for Smash Bros., of fucking course he's going to accept their sponsorship money in exchange for doing something that he was already going to do. You're fucking retarded.
if you legitimately cannot perceive the difference between 'you need to use xsplit and twitch', vs 'you can't run your second most popular game with over 350 entrants', then you should consider a visit to the doctor to have your head examined. you may have been dropped as a child
Why does Nintendo want Smash on the competitive scene?
Hear me out, MK, Tekken and such get played and all you hear is shit like "If it isn't made by SNK or Capcom, it is not a fighter".
After the sperglords that participated in the smash tournaments, why would any company like their game to be advertised by sweaty, greasy swamp things? The competitive core talks shit about smash, autists who want it to be competitive talk shit about smash not being like PM, and you pissed off a lot of people that granted were not going to play smash4 to begin with but it does damage your corporate image.
Just let tourneyfags run their shitty game. They are going to get laughed out of the fighting scene naturally over time. There is a good reaosn why melee was absent for a good amount of time.
>The Smash community has existed but also YEARNED for legitimacy.
speak for yourself, why don't you? I've never detected any of this yearning you're talking about in the years that I've been doing this shit, whereas you're making it pretty painfully evident that you have no frame of reference whatsoever
Not only dose it set a legal precedence that anyone can use their copyrighted content and code because they are sponsoring APEX, it completely misses the point of trying to push smash 4.
Don't run a business ever m8, you will be run out in a week
Yes we do. We are the community that surrounds this business and some of us happen to think that Nintendo promoting a tournament and removing one of its most popular programs is bullshit
>most popular programs
Maybe for the 600 children that attend the event, but smash 4 moved more copies than the free mod has in its entire lifetime in a week.
For the 3ds.
Now turn around and think about what you said.
You don't see mods of other fighting games at big tournaments.
Why should it be any different when it comes to Smash?
So the dying scene that has basically stopped existing except for being occasionally hosted at primarily Melee tournaments will be there, but not the mod that's easily the second most popular game in Smash tournaments usually being the dual main attraction along with Melee?
how about you take a minute to think about what kind of people will actually be bringing money into Apex? not the 14 million 8 year olds and antisocial neckbeards who have purchased Smash 4 that's for damn sure
>but smash 4 moved more copies than the free mod has in its entire lifetime in a week
And what proportion of them actually give a shit about watching and attending tournaments relative to the amount of PM players?
It's simple, if a company can't profit off of you either by having you buy their shit or using you as an ad vehicle, you're not worth this to them. Same for any company. Don't know why anybody is surprised by this.
But only Nintendo fans will actively cheer when other Nintendo fans get fucked over. See Smashfags in general with rosterfagging and the like.
The whole thing's a fucking shitstorm. I would love to watch Project M, but I think the community needs to lay low for a while after this, or at least maintain less of a presence.
>implying that 8 year old won't be watching the stream on twitch like all his friends will
You basement dwellers are no longer the primary audience of streaming, probably the biggest cash pull for modern tournaments. You got left in the dust two or three years ago and you still don't know it yet.
Why the fuck would Nintendo piss off a significant chunk of the fanbase they're trying to cater to rather than let the new game become popular by its own merits? For that matter, why are they even scared of a mod in the first place? Surely their new product is good enough that it'll stand as a competitively viable product and not just a slightly polished remake of a game those people hated and that they expect people to move onto just because it's new.
Why is this a thing?
Why must Project M fans act like children over such a mod not appearing?
If there's so many of you that want to play it then go create your own tournament(s) exclusively for mods.
delusional. Melee will get higher viewership than Smash 4 at Apex. I will literally bet you a hundred dollars that this is the case through whatever service you please. Put your money where your shitposting orifice is.
That's the problem though. Smash 4 isn't designed competitively at all, that's not what Sakurai wants, and he's probably disgusted by stuff like the E3 Invitational and the sponsoring of Smash tourneys instead of banning them. NoA just wants to force Smash 4 in by any means to advertise. Welcome to business.
I never said anything about "fighting game." I said "competitive." Which Smash is. By definition. You compete against other players to determine a victor. How is that NOT competitive?
the guys does it all the time, if you actually call him out on it and ask him why he does it he always shuts up.
at this point, he's much worse than the fan base that "deserves" it.
So this pretty much confirms Sm4sh for Evo instead of Melee right?
>Buncha angry faggots screaming MUH MELEE
that could not be further from the PM community. PMfags largely consist of babbies who are too casual to git gud at Melee. I question the amount of research you have done
popular is a relative term here, also them openly condoning and supporting any mod would be a potential shitstorm. pissing off a small group of people isn't that bad, since most rational fans can understand why they dont want project m to be featured.
It's a completely logical move. Nintendo wants people to buy the new game. If Project M becomes too popular, nobody will bother to play or buy Smash 4. God forbid Project M starts adding Smash 4 characters. Nintendo would kill them.
Capcom doesn't stop Tony Majors from bringing rainbow edition.
Unless you mean Marvel 2 mods which was purely cosmetic shit, and dropped because people stopped playing marvel 2 and when they did there was a version on current consoles(meaning no need to have dreamcasts).
There's a small part of the community that starts shit and can't accept the fact that Melee was a lighting in a bottle type of game, in term of competitiveness. It's unique and will never happen again.
>If Project M becomes too popular, nobody will bother to play or buy Smash 4
there is not a possible universe where this could happen. even if Project M was getting 500k viewers on Evo mainstage, millions would still be Smash 4, in fact it would probably help sales by pushing out the Smash brand
And to put it in more general terms
>There's a small part of the community that starts shit and can't accept the fact that Nintendo was a lighting in a bottle type of company, in term of quality. It's unique and will never happen again.
They had a good run in the 20th century, at least.
>Smash 4 is at EVO
>turns out to be boring as fuck
>everyone hates it, ResidentSleepers intensify
>Smash Bros. is dropped from EVO altogether, Nintendo's sponsorship ends up killing the scene
Both are casual faggots that can't learn new games and just stick to a single game while slandering everything else. It's exactly like dealing with STfags that bitched and moaned about SF3 and 4 when those games came out.
No one took your precious mod away. You can still play it right now, hell you can watch Xanadu streams till the end of time if you want. It simply has no place in officially sponsored tournaments, live with it m8.
PM has its own tournaments. It's the main event at any Tourney Locator run tournament.
PMfags are mad because Strife actually promised that PM would be a mainstage event this year. People had flights booked already. Their fault for trusting that faggot, though. I hope he quits for real, but he won't. Just like every year.
I have friends that are like 'How can you SAY that smash 4 is boring? There haven't even been any tourneys yet' while I've watched a bunch of tourneys and they've seen jack shit except the invitational.
Smash 4 is alright to play, but holy fuck is it boring to watch and a bad competitive game.
Boy, where have I seen that before? But people just adapted and accepted it, right?
>Alex Strife will never bow out of the scene gracefully
every fucking year he causes shit because he loves the attention. What a horrible TO, honestly it's disgraceful that people still see Apex as the premier smash tourney when vgbootcamp, tl and MioM run circles around that shitshow on a weekly basis and Juggleguy manages to run TBH4 with over 700 entrants in two days without a single hitch
>except the invitational.
Did you watch that same finals I did m8? I mean, not saying that the newer tournaments haven't been shit too, but watching zero out-lame hbox is not my idea of a good time.
Because you're a dumb faggot and don't understand how bans work.
Controlled RNG isn't a bad thing at all. That's why Peach, Game and Watch etc are fine. Items are not controllable at all.
Stage bans are due to either bad stages, or because they enable infinites, infinite stalling etc.
>The whole idea is to remove any sort of items and ban stages
The whole idea is to remove RANDOMLY SPAWNING ITEMS that gave an unreasonable advantage to whoever they spawn closer to and ban stages that result in overly polarizing matchups or retarded strategies. Nobody wants to see someone pick Fox, counterpick Temple, and run away while spamming lasers because most characters can do absolutely nothing against that strategy.
It was awful. I don't have a problem with zoning or laming out, but when that's all a game has it's boring.
And I think they're going to be in for a rude awakening when the Smash 4 tourneys start dropping.
>Nintendo doesn't want an unlicensed modification to one of their games to be played in a televised setting where they are promoting the next game in that series
>people think this is unfair or unreasonable
If there's any chance someone could mistakenly gain the impression that project M is a licensed Nintendo product it could adversely effect the brand.
Yeah I'm pretty much done with APEX.
Was looking to go to a national next year and I'm pretty sure it's gonna be TBH5 over APEX. Juggleguy is kind of an asshole but at least he's no nonsense and has his shit together. Strife is just a worthless faggot.
>implying people won't hold side tournaments for Project M in their hotel rooms
Like nigga how hard is it to take a wii? I'm thinking about do it to be quite honest. Might try and make some bucks off of it too
>The whole idea is to remove any sort of items and ban stages, so why not ban moves and go full on faggot?
no, dumbass. that's not the idea.
the idea is to remove randomness that is outside of player control (Peach chooses to roll the dice on every turnip pull, so it's not out of the player's control), and stages are banned specifically so that specific strategies and moves won't need to be banned due to the fact that they encourage degenerative gameplay like runaway projectile camping or camping by the blast zone at high % fishing for a bthrow kill
put simply : if stages like Termina and Temple were legal, then tourneys would have to ban certain moves and tactics. but when you're playing 1v1 Battlefield no items, even the gayest possible strats are legit, so there's no need to meddle with it any more
>it's only been a few days, the meta will change!
>it's only been a few weeks, the meta will change!
>it's only been a few months, the meta will change!
I can't fucking wait for all those Smash 4 apologists to shut up and admit that the game probably isn't going to be very interesting at a high level.
They might, but none of the big PM names are going for obvious reasons. Rolex and ProfPro were supposed to have a rematch. It would have been fucking great.
Oh well, maybe they'll fly out for the next LTC or something.
>If there's any chance someone could mistakenly gain the impression that project M is a licensed Nintendo product it could adversely effect the brand.
Why do people keep saying this when it's blatantly not true?
Sega, one of the shittiest companies out there knows this better than Nintendo. Directly hiring out fan developers to make content for them. Or Valve with how they don't give a shit and roll in the money everyone else makes for them.
Or how about 2K games, whom openly endorse a huge modification to XCOM games as being better than the game they made?
/v/ is like 80% hardcore nintendo fans. For some reason they have to shit up project m threads because it isn't official and takes away hype from smash 4. They see it as a rival or some shit meanwhile project m fans jut wank off in their own 3.5 whatever threads.
>side tournaments for Project M in their hotel rooms
yeah people already talked about doing that so they won't waste the trip
hahaha good one bro. not sure why I thought someone asking a question as stupid as 'why don't they ban Peach downB' could have been serious in the first place
The only reason I ever follow this scene is because the drama outshines everything. The canyon wide splits between each series just makes it all the more better. I mean look what happened in the past week alone:
>PM dumped from Apex
>Apex staffed swamped with death/rape threats
And prog finally going on twitter to announce another schism in the community as if we didnt fucking know it wouldn't happen. Smash is without a doubt the single most childish and entitled gaming community I've had the pleasure of stirring shit in and I'm sitting here with my toes tingling, literally tingling, waiting for Smash 4 to be announced for EVO'15. The chimp-out that will follow is gonna be so awesome.
>shitting on modders
>supporting an ass-backwards developer-consumer relationship
I don't even play competitive fighting games, and this is just bizarre. It's 2014. This is why Nintendo is becoming irrelevant. This is why Miyamoto is seen as an ignorant asshole when he makes remarks like "We could have made Halo." Nintendo keeps shooting themselves in the foot by acting as if Steam, PC, and Half-Life 2 never happened. Well, it's their fucking loss.
If Valve had made SSB, they would have hired the PM developers and everyone wins. Fans and devs alike. With Nintendo, they just shit all over their fanbase so hard it makes me genuinely feel sorry for the PM devs. I regret supporting Nintndo by owning a Wii U and 3DS. At least I only have a couple of games for both systems. I'm going to hack my systems as soon as possible to break out of Nintendo's brainwashed closed-garden nonsense.
>/v/ is like 80% hardcore nintendo fans. For some reason they have to shit up project m threads because it isn't official and takes away hype from smash 4. They see it as a rival or some shit meanwhile project m fans jut wank off in their own 3.5 whatever threads.
It's just shitposters looking for a reason to shitpost. This just happens to be the low effort shitposting de jour.
don't bother explaining, nintendrones don't understand that it's possible for both sides to thrive from good modding. they only understand that it is their god-given duty to protect nintendo's share prices and bottom line at all costs.
why wouldn't they be? all they would have to say is "you will use our rules or we will not allow you to have your event" and regardless or legality or precedent nintendogaf would lap it up worship the hand that slaps them.
>Apex staffed swamped with death/rape threats
overstatement of the century. if you actually believe that shit, then you must not be familiar with the individual known as Alex Strife
>not at apex
>will be at other tournaments not sponsored by nintendo
>nintendo just asked for it not to be there
>they didn't C&D them
As long as they just have Smash 4 at Nintendo sponsored events they'll be fine, Project M can run wild wherever Nintendo isn't sponsoring.
>Junebug can finally play Ganondorf now that he's been buffed as fuck and diddy's been nerfed
>they see it as a rival or some shit
Speaking as someone who really doesn't care much about smash but has enjoyed all three, I just find Project M sad.
I remember people taking smash a little too seriously at a local LAN center, usually the same kids who played that GCN Naruto fighter, and all I can picture when I think of Project M is those kids grown up but no different whatsoever
The Armada vs Hbox matches may not have been the most high speed but they were still super intense. I enjoyed watching them. If you had watched their previous sets you could see how much hbox had stepped up his game.
Admittedly finals was a shit. Just mango dunking hbox like we all knew he would.
>CS started as a tourneyfag mod for HL.
How can I take this board seriously anymore when underage morons just type before thinking?
Counter-Strike was created by two college kids in 1999 with a lot of time on their hands. It's pure chance that it was picked up by the competitive scene and endorsed by Valve. Get your facts straight.
>Fuck off shill
>Street Fighter fans
>played all the previous street fighters
>used to have SF3 at tourneys, then it was SF4 and everyone adapted
>have accepted KoF XIII as their game and don't go back to KoF 2002 or shit like that
>played regular MvC3 until Ultimate came, everyone moved and adapted
>autistic manchildren who refuse to adapt and instead they keep playing the same 13 year old game, even to go as far as to modify the next installment to be like the previous one via romhacks
This is why Meleefags are the literal cancer of both Smash and the FGC
tl;dr ahahaha fuck Project Mfags
>Admittedly finals was a shit. Just mango dunking hbox like we all knew he would.
exactly. I was going to mention that that match on Stadium was legit as fuck but took the low effort route of just shitting on hbox lol.
but yeah I was really complaining about GF, since that's what 99% of people who know nothing about the game will base their opinion of its Evo showing on. just Mango slowly boyz in the hooding juan so he can usmash him. snooze
Saying that people you don't like are in denial and delusional doesn't win you the argument. I've been in this thread for a while and all I've seen is the PM people standing their ground against a bunch of shitposters. Fuck off.
This is where P:M fags fall down
Every other mod that has been accepted into become official supported game and actually mattering had a massive casual fan bases before, like millions, not 100.000 tops, and that is being quite generous.
This mod is going to fad into the distance just like all the others, it just isn't popular enough to keep going indefinitely.
ebin copypasta, but we've been over it already
the differences in mechanics between Melee and Brawl are not at all comparable to the differences between any two versions of SF, king of spics or mahvel
Yeah, and faggot? Quake was made in 1996 and an incredible competitive game.
It wasn't chance that CS was picked up by a competitive crowd, it was how they balanced and refined it.
Smashfags should just stop playing Smash, or at least stop having hope for new entries and not try to integrate with the FGC. Sakurai wants the Wii audience and only the Wii audience, and all NoA cares about is advertising. Meleefags and the like should just do their own small events without sponsorships, because the game they like isn't going to be made again.
I can't speak for the whole community, but I just want something that's new and isn't Melee. I don't need it to be the greatest shit ever, I just want something that has some potential for growth, since Melee doesn't have a lot of room for development left.
How do you think a competitive scene is formed? Brawls never took off in that at the higher levels of play, it's boring to watch as defensive options trump offensive.
Boring to watch = no spectators = dead competitive scene.
Sure, you can get some people to maybe agree to not play at the optimal method and try to make it a spectator friendly game, but there will always be at least a few people who say fuck that, play the boring defensive style that Brawl encouraged and beat everyone else until they're also forced to play that way to win.
A competitive scene won't arise from a game that is fundamentally not built for it, which is Sakurais retard vision.
Competitive Smash players are such man babies. Get over it. P:M isn't a licensed product from Nintendo. Can't be televised, simply. Promoting new game, simply again. This will benefit APEX beyond belief having Nintendo back it up. This is a good way for Nintendo to get into the eSports scene, and really make something out of the competitive Smash scene instead of being a basement dwelling competitive scene that only attracts over grown mongoloids.
>Comparing apples to oranges
Smash is at least ten times more popular than all of those other games combined, yet somehow wanting to be involved in the development process of the newest installment makes someone autistic. Your logic is fucking baffling.
Then again, I am just feeding a troll in the end. Sincerely responding in these threads leads nowhere anymore.
Every game company in the world should try to emulate Valve's consumer-developer relationship. It's perfectly balanced.
The problem is that Smash 4 looks like it's just Brawl again, and nobody wants to watch Brawl anymore. It's still campy defensive spamfests and as soon as the scene dies they'll just leave it behind and never look back.
literally lullaby levels of hype. this is the game that Prog and D1 are pretending to be excited for the future of, etc, when to anyone that's not wearing fucking blinders its pretty obviously Brawl 2.0 in every way that matters
It's confusing to me as Miyamoto recently stated that he was fed up with the Wii audience and them wanting to be spoonfed casual content and that he wanted to get back to making core games, then Sakurai basically says fuck that and that casuals are top dog.
That was the design philosophy behind Brawl and Smash 4. Lower the skill ceiling so good players can't stomp on bad players as quickly. Unfortunately that's what made Brawl so fucking boring to watch.
/r/ing the match between Meta Knight and Ice Climbers on Battlefield where they spend the first minute of the match staring at each other waiting for one to approach
>Yeah, and faggot? Quake was made in 1996 and an incredible competitive game.
What on Earth are you talking about? I love Quake, but this has nothing to do with it.
>It wasn't chance that CS was picked up by a competitive crowd, it was how they balanced and refined it.
It was pure luck that CS gained traction in the early days. Half-Life mods were a-dime-a-dozen back in the day and used to come on disks in PC gaming magazines. CS was lucky to have the remarkably dedicated community that sprung around it, considering the other mods around at the time (Action Half-Life, etc.)
And the end result is that a good player stomps a bad player still, it's just infinitely worse to watch. They die an agonizing death of a thousand cuts instead of a quick one.
Please, provide some hype high level smash 4 play. High level, not for glory trash throwing random falcon punches.
The best I've seen is those early japanese tournaments, and those were far from optimal play.
The game has no room for growth beyond this. It plays just like Brawl and everyone already knows how to play Brawl. The game's not even a month old yet and the metagame development is already dead.
>/r/ing the match between Meta Knight and Ice Climbers on Battlefield where they spend the first minute of the match staring at each other waiting for one to approach
THis match encapsulates literally everything wrong with Brawl
then cherrypick an exciting one dickbreath
here, I can cherrypick three exciting Melee matches off the top of my head
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcfv63Xvs5c - Mango v Leffen @ Apex 14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omi9MyweC_I - Mango v Taj @ Genesis 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qna80MbcAAc - M2K v Shiz @ RoM
your turn. show me the exciting Smash 4 matches please
So, if Sakurai wanted to make a game where everyone can win, why not just make the results screen label everyone a winner?
Yes. It still plays like Brawl. And no amount of character balancing patches is going to develop the game's competitive scene because it is slow and boring compared to Melee at its very core.
If it's with Nintendo's sponsorship, it'll be by Nintendo's rules, which have a precedent set by the Invitational and National Open. As they're in this for advertisement, it's in their best interest to force items and random stages, especially boss stages, and rules that result in long matches to show off these features as much as possible.
Mango is the king of disrespect. noobs that talk about Ganon dairs being 'big disrespect' don't even know
Well, this is it. I've become the sort of person that finds a Melee space furry FD fight more interesting than a fight in the newest Smash.
>The company is involved with Apex in an attempt to promote Smash 4 to the competitive audience-
>Not still playing 64, Melee, Brawl, and Smash 4 because you've 100% completed all four and appreciate the characters, stages, music, mechanics, and differences between all of them and like to marathon them with family and friends at parties
>the same way these fags shit up our games.
How do tourneyfags shit up games? If anything, they're actually arguing to make games that can appeal to everyone at this point, while Sakurai wants the Wii audience exclusively, to the point that he's going against the word of his senior, Miyamoto, who calls that very audience pathetic.
you could post any match from any set in TBH4 top8 and it would be more exciting than any round of Smash 4 ever played. Westballz vs Lucky, Lucky bs Mango, Leffen vs Armada and m2k vs Mango in Winners were all fucking mind-blowing
welcome to the club. continue to partake and you will eventually recognize the Fox vs Fox matchup to be one of the most glorious and volatile games in the world
>But there is a Smash 4 out now with Nintendo's support. There's no need for the mod anymore except for archival reasons.
PM isn't needed any longer because smash 4 is out? Even though it makes the same mistakes brawl does?
I know I a being tricked but I responded anyways.
>while Sakurai wants the Wii audience exclusively, to the point that he's going against the word of his senior,
>"To paint in broad strokes, Melee is for the maniac, the veteran player, while Brawl is for a newer, more casual gamer, as far as the speed goes," Sakurai explained. "Melee, of course, is super fast, and the people who are used to that game love that gameplay. But it may be a barrier for folks who found it a little imposing. Brawl was designed to be more approachable and accessible by folks who might [used to be playing] Wii Fit or Wii Play."
>"Now, with the new Smash Bros., we're thinking the positioning will be really right in the middle."
The fun comes from seamlessly linking moves together and predicting your opponents moves and DI, resulting in an extremely fast and efficient kill that you were able to do because you were good at the game, not because a bob-omb spawned next to you.
Nintendo could not have supported Apex if they held PM tournaments there as they use characters such as Roy and Mewtwo (as well as plenty of skins not in Brawl) that don't belong there. Nintendo just permitted fanmade projects, so PM will most likely be supported by Nintendo in the future.
Sakurai can't even give us that. Items used to add to the frantic pace of a casual match, now they all do shit like instantly steal a stock, take away your character control, or make everything a mad dash for one of now fucking two three-piece instant kill weapons.
Man I love Melee to death but Fox dittos will never be the hypest. They're fine and all, don't get me wrong, but I'd prefer Fox vs any other top tier. Or Flaco dittos, or Falcon dittos.
One of the guys who helped run the recent tournament Fox Wit It (which had a top 4 of 4 foxes) left the tournament after top 4 started because he hates Fox dittos (even though those finals were great).
>we're thinking the positioning will be really right in the middle
I never understood this logic because to the hardcore audience it's a compromise between a game they liked and a game they disliked while the casual fanbase would care or notice either way.
ITT: Stream monsters
If you want to play PM at Apex 2015... fucking go to Apex 2015 bruh. They're will still be setups and enough people to run a side tournament. After over salty suites isn't just one room, its gonna be they entire fucking hotel having salty suites for every game you wanna play. PM is not blacklisted, just not supported, its no different than SFxT, vanilla marvel, mvc2, or DOA 3. If you want to play it at APEX just bring a setup or look around. There will be plenty.
That being said, fuck brawl
He's wrong, though. Melee was in the middle to begin with, it appealed to casual babbs and tourneyfags alike. There's no point in finding a 'happy medium' between a game everyone liked and a game only some people liked.
>appeal to everyone
With retarded phrases like "high level play", "rewarding skill", and "fast paced gameplay" floating around just to make them look legit everywhere I doubt it was made to for everyone.
I didn't realize conservation of momentum was a glitch anon. Life must be glitchy as fuck.
Oh wow, M2K and Mango destroy and style on someone as usual, look at all this hype
This is seriously par for the course with them, I dont see how people get hype about it.
L-cancelling was a returning mechanic from Smash Bros 64. Wavedashing was just the physics engine doing its thing in unexpected ways. It was not an error in the programming, everything in Melee functions perfectly fine. It's not a perfectly balanced game, but to say that you can only win by exploiting glitches is just wrong.
It's still a slow campy piece of shit. But now with people living even longer than they did in brawl and tons of projectile spam camping.
It's so bad they have to do 2 stock matches in tourney to make them not last all fucking day.
Sakuai has learned nothing from brawl. And did not find a middle ground between melee and brawl.