That's not L Cancel, just some attacks have really low landing lag, it was confirmed yesterday.
>Shields are fast. Very fast. They are basically the new wave-dash (I dare say), I'm being totally serious, and you can attack out of them with a great deal of attacks.
smash 4 has that, so we'll see
my concern is that characters who CAN'T do this will be utter shit
Once again /v/ overexaggerating and misconstruing small details that have been pointed out elsewhere. Not only do you fags do nothing but regurgitate what other websites find out about Smash but also don't even get it right
There's a final build being demo'd in Japan right now, there's none.
All thats happening is that a lot of moves just have minimal to no landing lag now. Not a glitch, not L-cancelling, thats how the game is.
would still be helpful in some situations, yes. mainly cancelling a run when a character can't quickly cancel with a crouch (watch melee sheiks wavedashing while tech chasing) and in defensive situations. also platform mobility (wavelanding)
L cancelling seems pretty useless in all honestly. Its hard to pull off and doesn't have a great reward for it either. Why would you ever do it? Unless you're like Bowser in Melee and even then, it only shortens the landing lag by an extreme small amount to the point where it barely does anything
So its better than wavedashing?
Is Project M going to be BTFO?
Not him, but L-Cancelling is lame because it only acts as a non-obvious hurdle for new players to understand. Except for that one note in 64's guide, how is anyone playing Melee supposed to know that if you press L ~7 frames before you land after an aerial attack then you suffer no landing lag? If that's the way the game is "meant" to be played, it's better off as a trait any certain character has than an exploit anyone can abuse.
Meleefags clamor for more "movement options" in smash, more ways of getting around or means to an end. Wavedashing is an example; it requires a lot more effort than just running and is very finicky to control, but it had tons of invincibility frames interspersed throughout the dash and it allows you to perform a stationary attack, like a smash, while your momentum carries you across the ground
L-cancelling is pointless; rather, it's completely pointless NOT to L-cancel, because you gain everything and lose nothing from doing it. It's not an option, it's an obligation, even a necessity; it's not encouraging skill, it's punishing lack of skill, which is awful.
Best part about melee wasn't the tech skill, but what it enabled you to do. If the same high-level gameplay can be achieved with a lower level of skill required, it'll be the best smash yet.
Landing Lag is dependent on the move, we went over this. It seems to be balanced depending on their efficiency. For example, Falcon's knee is extremely powerful but has ginormous landing lag to compensate.
Wavedashing has no invincibility frames you retard, at least have a slight knowledge of what you're talking about beofre you start spewing everywhere.
L- cancelling, you can make a case for being removed though- but only if they made the low-lag times automatic.
>Its hard to pull off
Its just a simple tap of a button while you're landing, what's so hard?
>doesn't have a great reward for it either
For casualfags at least, but that is what Smash is aimed towards after all. Its inclusion in any Smash at all is confusing
>So its better than wavedashing?
Time will tell, depends on how easily you can act out of it, but when you airdodge into the ground in PM/Melee you can do anything out of it. You can also use it to land on platforms which make for tighter movement
>Is Project M going to be BTFO?
No you fucking cancerous faggot, a slightly better roll in a completely seperate game is not going to effect Project M
Smash just needs L-Cancelling and momentum carrying over into jumps and I'm happy. I don't care about dashing in place like a spaz, wavedashing (even if my Melee main was Doc), or moonwalking.
Momentum not transferring into jumps is awful and retarded.
I was defending wavedashing, go fuck yourself you irritable cum container
Nah, Smash doesn't need L-cancelling, just make everything have 0 landing lag like in Smash 64. Shit would be tight.
Momentum carrying into jumps though, yes, the fact that this was even taken out, EVER, is just bad game design
Wavedashing doesn't have invincibility frames you fucking retard
But that's wrong. L cancelling is worthless. If you'd like to show me off L cancelling isn't and how you absolutely need it to be a skilled player, go ahead. Because when I use L cancelling it doesn't do much for me in terms of tournaments which I've been in, matches with my friends, and against the CPUs, it does nothing I could've done without it and adds nothing either. Stopping the landing lag by 3 frames or less isn't useful.
>There are anons on /v/ that seriously think L-cancelling is in the same league as Z-cancelling
>but it had tons of invincibility frames interspersed throughout the dash
... The fuck? Maybe a few at the beginng while you're in the airdodge state before you even touch the ground but other than that no
You don't know what you're talking about, anon.
Short Hop Fast Fall L Cancel is incredibly useful. You are talking about of your asshole.
So how about this:
Wavedashing is made easy with a single button press
L cancelling is made automatic
Competitive players are happy because all their options and fluid movement are still there
Casual players are unaffected
Everyone wins because artificial skill barriers are removed
Can we all agree that this would be the best?
>yfw all those people shouting Brawl 2.0 because they couldn't consider the possibility of there being completely new tech to learn
If nothing else I'm predicting the competitive scene for Smash 4 to be far above Brawl, even if it doesn't match Melee.
can we quit the bashing of people that don't fully understand what they're saying? this is what separates casualfags and tourneyfags, and what needs to be stopped to fill that gap
You just showed what a fucking noob you are
Mostly Falco, but I use Ganon, Dr. Mario, Roy, and Marth a bit too. The other ones I use rarely, except I used to play Bowser a lot.
but L canceling takes no skill, you literally just have to press the shield button just before landing.
It requires timing, but it's not hard to do, it was even in the manuals (and it's called Smooth Landing)
I think that would devaule rolls and also make it too commonplace. Some characters had poor wavedashes and their metagame wasn't focused on it; Ganondorf, Peach, Jiggs to name a few offhand.
One of the Japanese guys who played the final build said something like "the ground speed is like Melee but mid-air it's more like Brawl" which is a pretty good way to put it. Ultimately though it's its own unique installment
The landing lag varies from moves and characters, simply removing it from all characters would mess with balancing issues, and will make people just spam powerful aerials without any risk of getting dodged and then punished.
See this is the thing though. I don't NEED L cancelling to win. L cancelling it self is an artificial difficulty barrier and I feel a lot of players who use it can't actually beat people without it. But besides that I find it overall useless in general, even with characters like Bowser and Ganon, especially since Z cancelling is so much better. It just feels dumb to use when you don't need to and in a competitive match honestly doesn't help that much, especially if you're actually playing a good character, which i'm sorry, but Bowser isn't.
>I don't NEED L cancelling to win
But it's also easy as fuck to execute you'd you'd play way more effectively if you did it, especially with a character like Ganon who becomes complete shit if there's no way to compensate for the ridiculous ending lag on his moves (see: Brawl).
But no one uses Ganon competitively in Brawl. And I do use L cancelling, I just find it kinda useless and insignificant.
Here's what I think is gonna happen;
1: Like what happened with Brawl, 4 newcommers will generally be really, really good and among the best characters.
2: Because he ignored most of the Melee vets in Brawl, Sakurai is focusing effort on making them better, and many we've seen such as Bowser, will be great in 4.
3: The Brawl vets are going to suffer what the Melee vets went through; many of them will be tweaked some but not as much, (except for Zamus) and wind up being on the lower end of things, like what happened to Melee vets in Brawl.
Lcanceling is vital in high level Melee. Missing an lcancel means almost certain death. Landing lcancels means doing the best pressure strings and combos. Lcancel is even more important than wavedashing.
Yea but L cancelling wouldn't get rid of Ganon's move lag. Just his landing lag. That's what L cancelling does. Ganon is shit in Brawl because he's slow as fuck and the move lag. Not because of his landing animation
I'm a meleefag and I agree. I wanted automatic lcancel as it would make the game more inclusive, especially for fgc members who like the fast paced action but the dex test was too much
my brother won a local melee tournament with Ganondorf as his main.
He completely rapes me everytime with him. The sad thing it's that he started picking him when I said Ganondorf was total shit.
His most positive trait in Melee was always his incredibly good aerials but in Brawl they made it so it's impossible for him to throw out any move and not get punished. There's a million reasons why Ganon was shit in Brawl and that's one of the biggest.
Ganon is shit because all of his moves have terrible startup, his mobility is awful and he's terrible at catching dodges with his attacks since they don't have a lot of active frames.
Oh yeah of course it does, I'm just saying it's not what makes him shitty though. It's a small part, but its not why he's shit or even close to being a major part of why he's shit in Brawl
Because you're playing against shit players. There are links and executions that need l-cancelling to work. Perfect Fox/Falco shield pressure is an example.
L-cancelling is insanely high reward for no risk and no real decision making.
I mean reducing it to the lower, l-cancelled value. Not removing it entirely
>These people saying they don't need l-cancelling to win
Depends on who you're playing against, m8s
If you made l-cancelling automatic and wavadashing a single button, gameplay like this would still be possible, but with less of an execution barrier. It baffles me to think how anyone can say this is a bad thing
>i have to learn some mechanics to get good at a game
a bloo bloo hoo god forbid a game have some depth.
What are you talking about? I've never needed L cancel to do shield pressure with Falco. It's just about timing not l cancels.
>W-well you must be playing shit players then!
No I wasn't. That's a dumb excuse
Wavedashing is already a very simple input and it doesn't move a discrete distance, you can change how far it goes depending on the angle and timing of the inputs. It's also not just used for moving along the ground, it's also used for wavelanding which is already just a directional input+airdodge at the right time. I don't really see why the input needs to be drastically simplified especially considering those techniques aren't anywhere close to being the most technically demanding things in that webm.
Alright I've only played Smash for 2 years now I think and I only recently started playing Melee as I was mostly playing Brawl, and I'm enjoying that too however I still find Brawl a bit better personally, but I had a question since I'm still kinda knew to it, how do you glide with Pit,Charizard, and Meta Knight? I get them to glide randomly sometimes but I have no clue what I'm doing that makes them do it.
Thats all that happened, and there where 1-2 shines and 1 grab, yes, he was spamming the same move, and to the other poster yes it is bad because if that is your best tool then it means that it is your best tool every time, so that is spamming. Falco has 8 different moves not counting grab, spaming 1 to combo with other 1 and finish with grab is pretty much spam.
I know, I'm a longtime tournament player too. You could keep it variable with direction + y for example. I'm just trying to find the best compromise really between depth and making the game more approachable at a high level
Are we talking about Mario and Pac? Am I the seriously the only one that clearly sees Mario doing an F-tilt right after landing? It looks more like Pac's punishing that rather than hurr no L-Cancel.
nice counter argument but whatever, I always loved z cancel but fuck I hated wavedashing, I'm so glad they removed it. It's not even hard to master it, it's just a pointless barrier.
Wait really? I know I'm new to it but now I kinda feel stupid now. I never figured it was just holding the button, I always assumed i had to press something else or press up and down a bunch or something
Use the move that's best in the situation. His opponent was in perfect range for every hitbox he used. When the opponent landed behind him he back aired, and he used a neutral air near the end as a mix up to set up for the down air KO because if he spammed down air in to shine mindlessly then the opponent would have DI'd back towards the stage instead of dying.
So the manual, dash/attack to cancel landing lag thing was false? Where did it even come from? Now it just seems that different moves have different lag times, although the majority have minimal lag which is fine.
This thread is actually pretty civil compared to most of the threads here.
Smashboards is filled with the anti-competitive crowd just like /v/ is because all the competitive players for all of the games moved to Facebook.
Personally I find the competitives much more obnoxious than the anti-competitives. Obviously anyone whose only intention is to get a rise out of the other side will be the most annoying, but from my perspective banging on about "wargh trash slow as bad as Brawl Melee forever" is worse than people who will just accept the game for what it is and have fun.
As a tourneyfag(as most of you would call me) L canceling imo is actually the one thing I do *not* like about melee. The reason being that it has no counter play. There is never a situation where you *don't* ever want to reduce your movement lag. Unlike wallteching, dash dancing, wavedashing, light shielding, shield grabbing. All the other moves in the game have some kind of tradeoff to them and there are key situations where you don't want to pull off those various moves.
I actually wouldn't mind L canceling at all if there were some kind of benefit associated with not l canceling, to make it a proper tradeoff.
How is this mentality prevalent on /v/ at all? "Just accept the game for what it is and have fun"? Are you kidding me?
Just accept DmC for what it is and have fun.
Just accept TOR for what it is and have fun.
Just accept Thi4f for what it is and have fun.
Why is Smash any different when it comes to worse sequels?
Directional shielding is very good obviously but it still takes actual precision to pull it off. That isn't a problem with the game's mechanics. I just don't like when the game turns into a tech fest instead of a true test of predictions, and skill.
And before you say anything. No I am not salty cause I "can't do any of that shit". I tech just fine all the time and SHFFLing is one of my favorite things to do as captain falcon.
Im not baiting. I've never needed L cancel for shield pressure. Falco's landing lag is short and it's short when you use the shield anyway.
You're really going all out with the equivocating, but there's no comparison. Brawl had a different style of gameplay than Melee but improved on roster size and diversity, stages, music, graphics, online play, modes and features, and extras. Calling it as "worse sequel" just because you can't pull off your favorite speedy tricks from Melee is simply idiotic.
Neither, you're describing morons. A sane individual on either side plays the game how they want and doesn't really care how other people play it.
Good players can abuse the difference in landing lag between an l-cancelled and a not l-cancelled aerial. Perfect Falco shield pressure is only perfect when you l-cancel, removing that gap.
Fucking everyone at a certain level has great tech skill, Silent Wolf is probably a more technical player than someone like Mango but he also performs worse in tournaments. Tech skill is not a replacement for any of those other things you mention, it just gives players the right tools for every situation.
For everyone. Or are you telling me that even the most retarded casual likes tripping, input lag and overall extremely slow, defensive and floaty play as opposed to quick and responsive balls to the wall action?
I'm not playing against people who suck actually. i'm able to use shield pressure lightning fast even without L-cancel, so why would I use L cancel when it's more work for something I can already do without it with the same efficiency. All you need is perfect timing and you can do it without it. And that's what I've gotten used to and I've learned how to counter that gap made without it, even though it's not really there to begin with when i do it.
I'm done with Melee. I have been for years.I just want something new that doesn't limit skill and tries to even the playing field for all players. If someone's better than me, I want to lose so I can git gud.
Worse style for nearly everyone. I've never met a person in real life who prefers Brawl to Melee. Casual, competitive, in between. Brawl is too slow and it feels like you're fighting in a vat of molasses or underwater.
I'm not disagreeing with you dude.
In melee, You are entirely correct. That's what I love about the game so much. I'm just saying it's not perfect in that regard but it's damn near fucking close.
Now PM?....that's a bit of a different story
It's worse in your opinion. The fact remains that the groundwork for Melee was taken and augmented in numerous ways. It's to Melee as Melee is to 64, and it doesn't matter whether you don't like the "waah less competitive" mechanics. Brawl doesn't need to live up to "competitive Melee" as a benchmark for whether it's good.
>I've never met a person in real life who prefers Brawl to Melee
Maximum delusion, meet confirmation bias, meet idiocy.
i agree completely, it's boring as shit now. but it's also what got me into competitive smash in the first place, and you can't deny that there are brawl tournaments, no matter how bad they are
Even Zenith, one of the biggest annual tournaments and had a tournament for Smash 64, didn't have Brawl this year. PM had more entrants than Brawl this year at Apex and the gap has probably widened since then. Brawl is in its death throes and Smash 4 will probably kill it altogether seeing as its basically Brawl+.
>any other fighting game
>don't have to do some counterintuitive input to cancel into the next attack
>Been this way since the beginning of combos in fightan
>Fightanfags are happy about this.
>don't have to do some counterintuitive input to cancel into the next attack
>Been this way since the beginning of combos in fightan
>Meleefags throw a bitchfit
>which doesn't matter since humans can't react at those kind of speeds anyway
There are people who consistently powershield Falco's lasers, shield drop, and perform frame perfect techs. Clearly you've never played against anyone good.
Again, that's just your opinion. Calling it "different" is accurate, calling it "worse" if your own personal bias being so enamoured with the way Melee plays.
>Tell me how it plays better than Melee
Thanks to increased recoveries, I can be thrown off the stage and not have my fate sealed just because the opponent decides to hang on the ledge. But I guess you think, get backthrow, hit by run off shine at 10% is a fun way to die because MUH SKILL.
I'm just going to jump into this argument and say you're an idiot. Disregard the whole shield pressure argument and lets go back to the basics. L-cancelling allows you to half your landing lag with the press of a button, it's as simple as that. With a little bit of practice, tapping the guard button every time you land will become second nature.
Half the landing lag frames for fucking free.
Why would you not want that?
Because the difference in landing lag is not significant enough to warrant the extra effort involved in L cancelling. It's literally just fractions of a second, it doesn't matter whatsoever.
I never claimed Brawl plays better than Melee, I was asked to give an example of something I think is better about it. And you respond with "that's just your opinion?" Thanks, Sherlock.
I am indeed a casual who thinks there's something flawed about a game where you can be killed at 0% by even the most casual Fox player if you make the grave error of getting knocked off the edge ever, yes.
I'm not saying its bad or something, just im more used to not using it and better at that too. Im USED to the landing lag with characters, it actually helps me plan out my moves a bit, however I'm not saying it's bad in general, I just feel like its stupid when people say you NEED to do it to be a skilled player. Because that's wrong. And while I find it easy sure, i don't find it very helpful, its kinda underwhelming when Z-cancelling was so much better, and overall I wouldn't want it in another Smash. i'd rather it be automatic or just make landing lag shorter or not even there really.
But that's the thing you don't need to L cancel to be skilled
I'm a fan of the original Smash Bros 64., not so much Melee and Brawl.
I couldn't care less about the wave dashing, but I loved L-cancel. It's not cheap, and it's not overly complicated to learn or master.
There is no real reason to take it out.
The only people that complain about L-cancel are austists and scrubs who are bad at it, or kids who missed a L-cancel a few times in a tournament and lost a set for it.
You all need to git gud regardless. The playing field will never ever be level for you with better players if its in or if its out.
Yes I'm being an asshole but yknow what, I lost all interest in trying to reason with retards in this community. Get bopped.
>But that's the thing you don't need to L cancel to be skilled
You're just handicapping yourself from your true potential if you don't do it, which is stupid seeing as it's like the easiest advanced technique in the game.
>You dont need L-cancel to be skilled
That's true, but it does remove a progression and consistency barrier from the game if you take it away. This is one of the many reasons (although not the main reason) Brawl was so garbage. The characters that had an auto cancel like Metaknight saw rapid growth leading to gameplay imbalance. Meanwhile laggy characters are pretty much imbalanced. People see the most broken character and just go with it. taking out the execution barrier of cancelling your landing lag in smash allows this gameplay and it becomes overdefensive. See >>261973304 they got it right on the money. Git gud.
What about the people who admit that there is no decision making involved with it and that it only exists as a "do this input to automatically get better", which isn't skill in the first place?
Never have I seen so many people talking out of their asses. L-canceling isn't needed to win at a casual level. If you think L-canceling is completely useless then you haven't been put in a situation to utilize it i.e. doing a Marth combo.
You quoted me >>261967875 even though two posts later I explicitly said I've been done with Melee for years and want something new. Fucking casual elitists.
Your play would be improved if you incorporated L-cancelling. Just because you're used to not using it and play better without it doesn't mean you can't practice to use it effectively and be a better player.
And skill can be defined in a lot of ways. Knowing how the game works and knowing what to do in every scenario is a skill, yes, but being able to input a lot of buttons at a fast pace while STILL being able to think clearly/control your character/react to every situation is as important.
Yeah and those people that cant do it dont want to build that muscle memory, they want less effort and to have their inferior skills catered to. I never have to think about L-cancel, and personally I cant remember a time when I actually missed one. Course this is coming from someone who can pillar triple shine on shield without ever dropping it so maybe thats just me.
Are you coming into this conversation midway through, or are you just stupid? The entire point I was making is that anyone who writes off Brawl as the "worse game" because they don't like the direction Sakurai took the game style in is biased and missing the larger picture. I don't claim, nor do I need to prove, that Brawl's play style is better by any metric. It simply takes the Smash concept, which Melee expanded on in 64, and expands it further from Melee. A couple of your favorite tricks from Melee are gone, but you can do new tricks. There are more characters, more kinds of special attacks, and new ways to use them. It's augmented.
Meleefags are stuck in the past. I love Melee, and Brawl, and 64, but comparisons between them are irrelevant. All that matters is that each new Smash game is bigger and louder than the last one and I get new characters to beat the shit out of my friends with. And I'll take that over refusing to play them because they don't have X speedy mechanic and instead crying myself to sleep clutching my Gamecube and dusty Melee disc any day.
Fractions of seconds are EXTREMELY important in fighting games, and in a movement based fighting game like Smash, willingly gimping your movement because of sheer ignorance is retarded, but fine, let me try to put it further into perspective. You said you play Ganon, right? He has some of the longest landing lag in the game. I don't know the exact numbers, but lets say it's 1/2 a second. If you jumped just 30 times in one match you'd have had a full 15 seconds of landing lag. L-cancelling would cut that shit in half for no extra effort.
"When planning the development of a new game, I always take a lot of care to discuss the concept and try to define it as best I can. For example, I like to think of Smash as a four-player battle royal action game. You'll notice that's a lot longer than saying it's a fighting game, because 'fighting game' is a completely different label." - Sakurai
There are people right now, in this very moment, on this very board, in the year 2011+3 who take a children's game seriously.
Actually I just want there to be a point for it having a button press.
Either make it auto, or make there be some choice in whether to do it or not.
Otherwise there's no point in having you press the button, it isn't even hard as you said. It's just monotonous
It's only annoying if you're inconsistent or cant do it. Prove me wrong. If you have to even consider thinking about it your consistency is way off. There's literally no space for argument for you here.
I see more kids on Xbox live and PS online than I do claiming they play Nintendo games. By that logic and actual truth you could say you're more immature by judging a game by its rating and image than the kids you're trying to separate yourself from. Sorry you like limiting yourself son.
Nah man. Brawl actually introduced some interesting
glitchesbetter known as advanced techniques, but the competitive scene fizzled out and most people forgot about them. DACUS is great and I hope that returns in 4.
>DMC with slower character movement and more floatiness
One of my biggest problems with DmC is that the aerial combat is so ridiculously simplified that what was once a hallmark of an incredibly good player to stay in the air juggling opponents for so long can now be done by mashing buttons and hovering in the air. The combat is also incredibly simplified, much like Brawl.
But I'm not really when L cancelling is such a small thing anyway and over all doesn't really fit my play style
Of course, I'm not saying I won't try to L cancel or something or I won't try to get better at it, because I'm sure it's helpful in SOME situations, but it seems and from what I've seen and played, to be very situational for me. And yes the fast pace button pressing is of course important, but L cancelling to me is more of a thing to worry about then something to help my play in all honesty. It's hard to explain, but I find it makes the battle more of a mess for me then feeling accomplished for doing it. I could easily get better at L cancelling, but over all my argument isn't how L cancel is, although still overall i find it pretty ineffeficient in general, but when people say you NEED IT ABSOLUTELY to be good at Melee, and that it should come back in the Next Smash instead of it being automatic.
that isn't an L cancel, that's an autocancel, which was in brawl, you stupid virgin.
L cancels stops landing lag, it doesn't let you slide forward and do an attack, your bait was successful because /v/ are a bunch of casual faglords
L-canceling adds zero depth. It's ALWAYS better to do it, there's never a decision involved.
Removing it and making everyone's landing lag overall lower (which appears to be what they've done) is the reasonable solution.
Okay, okay, the point is the DmC ALSO introduced neo-Nazi edgelord Donte and FUCK YOU and everything else we love to make fun of. Brawl didn't replace Mario with someone's "Dark Mario xxx420xxx" OC.
On the cusp of manlet
>Mr. Game and Watch
>You absolutely need it to be good
This has to be b8 because that's full on wrong. L cancelling is a minor thing in general. Having skills with attacks, dodging, shielding, using correct attacks, aerials, recoveries, combos, and more are FAR more important to being good then fucking L cancelling. I assume you also think you have to Wavedash to be good as well? Moron.
There's your problem. You don't HAVE to l cancel. You can l cancel and not know how to follow up so you won't be better than the other guy. There was an anon earlier who said he practiced his auto cancels and was fine.
That being said, tell me what you have against pressing one button at the right moment. I understand the though of "unnecessary barrier" and what not, but it's so minor and other games have done similar mechanics in the past. See Bayonetta's perfect timed dodge mechanism.
don't have a whole lot
has anyone made a webm of chillin vs hax in pm at bar wars yet? you know the one.
This thread made me want to play Melee again, but I found it so boring, I turned it off after five minutes. Why do people like Smash again? No, this is not bait, this is a legitimate question.
Well then I guess I enjoy the challenge of not using it. I'm more used to playing without it now.
Just ... everything. It felt slow, and so dull. I've seen so many webms of amazing play, and not being able to pull that off made me feel terrible. I used to know how to L-cancel and wavedash, now I don't.
Actually, the whole concept of Smash (and fighting games in general, I suppose) is boring to me. The singleplayer sucks, there is no reward for exploration (since there is none), and it just feels soulless. I don't know, maybe fighting games aren't for me? That could be a possibility.
Go watch literally any noteworthy tournament and watch all the L-cancelling
Then fuck off
you'd pop off like that if you read him that hard
As extra confirmation (?), I tend to avoid enemies when playing games. I don't think fighting every single enemy adds to the gameplay. I just like exploration, that's all, really.
This would also explain why I am absolutely horrible at every boss fight, since I actually don't find entertainment in fighting enemies.
and they say meleefags aren't a hivemind
Seriously go get Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion and play it on Easy.
You can one shot anything and enjoy that gorgeous soundtrack while exploring the beautiful countryside.
No, but it sounds fun.
That is a reasonable viewpoint on the matter. My favourite genere is collectathons, and I love seeing my numbers of collected things going up.
When I've fought one enemy of one kind, fighting the next one is less entertaining. Finding new enemy types is exciting, that gives me the incentive to find a way to take it down. The next time I fight the same enemy is boring, there is nothing new to learn.
They're both the best at their talents, IMO.
If you want less chain grabbing and a more outstanding sopo, Fly is pretty good.
Though, if you want to see some clutch grabs that punish the ever loving fuck out of the target, Wobbles popularized the wobble.
Sources confirm he has been nerfed TO SHIT. More lag on all his moves, less priority, the recovery on his specials got nerfed, no glide, Mach Tornado is easy to get out of by holding away from it. It's a good thing he wears a mask cause I don't wanna see how his face looks after he took that nerf bat to it.
I wouldn't go that far, it's hard to make Metaknight actually awful, but basically anyone worrying he's gonna be an overpowered piece of shit again can be at peace.
As an aside, Diddy can only have one banana out at once now too, and Falcon's knee is crazy stronk (albeit laggy if you miss), Link is way better, and so on. Seems they knew who to nerf and who to buff.
>My original quote was the dice roll comment.
And it was in response to someone that was happy that landing lag was reduced automatically instead of having to fucking shield every time you land.
Why do tourneyfags literally ruin everything? Brawl has
>more content in general
Throw in trophies, music, it 1 ups melee in every regard except for this shit that 99% of people don't give a fuck about.
But show up in this thread, holy fuck, you would think that Brawl took a steaming dump on the chest of every Meleefag here. Little piece of advice:
SMASH ISN'T A FIGHTING GAME. Stop treating it like one, stop tourneyfagging, and just enjoy the game for what it is instead of obsessing your neckbearded self over this miniscule shit
>tfw You were a kid and Kirby was your favorite character to play as on Melee
>Realizes that Kirby is shit in Melee
>Melee is the only game that Kirby is shit
>my main is Kirby
>yet all my friends just want to play Melee
Chrom appears in robins victory pose.
Robin is FANTASTIC. Magic is not slow, when he has his spell book his attack speed is really good. If you use a smash attack in the air IT USES HIS MAGIC SMASHES. If you use a normal aerial it uses his other weapon.
Let me reaffirm this. Robin feels AMAZING.
He has two swords, the magic and the non-magic one. (Forgive me, not an awakening veteran).
All of tilts are using the physical sword. They have good combo ability. All of his smashes use the magic sword, which has an electric effect.
When in the air, if you use the inputs for a smash attack (and you still have the magic sword available), you will do an aerial that uses the magic sword. If you just typically hit an aerial he will use the normal sword.
You use up your magic sword quite quickly but it regenerates rather fast so it's not like it ruins your tempo. Very fast.
The fire move we've seen is actually a fireball that comes from above robins head and rains down in the vicinity in front of robin. His neutral b shoots and electric lightnig bolt straight across the stage.
The healing move is his down b and you would be surprised to know it heals for a LOT (I healed for about 20%) and it stuns your opponent while you heal. It has a start up though so it's not as easy to land as any regular grab. I can see Robin being a PAIN IN THE *** to people who can't avoid getting caught in it. Unsure if you can force break it from slapping buttons, I only played AS him.
His up b jumps up a bit and shoots wind slicers down. Important to note it's actually not straight up, he jumps jump and slides slightly to the side in the direction you're facing THEN shoots them down, so it can be a ground option too.
THANK YOU BASED GOD
>smashfags mad because their exploits get patched
>it's wrong to prefer faster, more exciting gameplay over more content
I can see people on both sides of the fence and there's nothing wrong with that. But if you really think this is strictly about tourneyfagging then you're a retard.
>IT'S NOT AN EXPLOIT IT WAS IN 64'S INSTRUCTION MANUAL!
>Only in the american version of the manual.
>You can escaPE Kirby's Back and Forward throws
>ALL OF HIS MOVES ARE NERFED TO HELL AND BACK
>Final Cutter's horizontal range is shit
>Hammer is shit cause you can easily punish is and in the air it's shit.
>Terrible Air speed
Playing Kirby in Melee is drinking Poison and dying a slow,painful death.
We all want the same thing: a fun game. Higher speed and more options are more fun for people. How you could possibly think slower gameplay in a Smash game is more fun is beyond me.
>mfw someone did the idc glitch against me
Had to smack the stick out of his hand
Wow that new Metaknight sure is sounding
I estimate that Samus, Robin, Fox, Falco, Marth and Ike will all be high tier, with Meta Knight, Kirby, Bowser and Sheik in high-mid tier.
These will be the most viable characters and the others will be rarely played, mark my words.
>Why do tourneyfags literally ruin everything? Brawl has
>>more content in general
and worst gameplay. never even been in a smash tournament, brawl was just bad.
this thread is weird
it started out bad but ended up being alright, had some decent discussion about tech going, only to get re-invaded by "hurr durr glitches and exploits" crowd.
why can't we have nice things guys?
Samus apparently isn't that great, Fox is nerfed from his Brawl version which was already nerfed from his Melee version, Marth is nerfed to hell too, Ike is apparently identical which means he'll be mid tier at best.
Joking aside I am concerned he might be metaknight tier.
He seems like a master of all trades, only lacking in mid range combat, adn having a 10 second window where he cant make use of a single of his items
>taking about the roster anywhere
ridley, btfo, literal who, slots, deserves, clones. Every roster thread ever
Do the characters not shut the fuck up like they didnt in their trailers? like announcing their attack names and shit
A bit of background for this. Zelda was only that high because some people considered her and shiek to be the same character and voted accordingly. Falcon and jiggs were undiscovered. Mario was higher than doc because people at the time thought his F-smash was OP. ("D-throw to F-smash is so good bro!")
Wave Dashing was somthing that soccer guy didn't find out about until sometime during the production of brawl, it was a glitch with the physics system.
People who complain about Wave Dashing are the worst, this is like complaining about Snaking being removed from the Mario Kart series.
From small snippets i've seen, yes, they don't shut the fuck up. At least palutena doesn't she announces her attacks. i think, it was in nip though but she says shit for sure while attacking. I assume its the same for some of the characters, like probably robin and shulk
They knew about it during the production of Melee and they didn't remove it for the other versions of the game which altered character balanced and removed glitches like the Ice Climbers freeze glitch.
You guys are fucking horrible.
All of Brawl you're like hurrr no L canceling
And now that this one does you're like L canceling is dumb, who even uses it.
Wow I hate all of you.
>Having to play like a retard just to really enjoy a game
I don't know why you think this is the case, but it isn't.
>How you could possibly think slower gameplay in a Smash game is more fun is beyond me
I never said that.
Ever play Xenoblade?
is called. Every time.
Only one guy "Just" adjusts his glasses, the others sperg first then respond again.
The middle guy didn't even wipe his nose he just pushed it up like he didn't know what he wanted to do.
what the fuck are you talking about?