>>258950767 >vast improvement from the first one by adding 2 player, spin dash, better special stages. >Didn't need the lock on gimmick to be a complete game (though knuckles in sonic was awesome) like sonic 3 and sonic and knuckles had to. sonic 3 > sonic and knuckles >level design wasn't fuck sides like in CD. amy and the both the Jap/murrican soundtracks were the only good things from CD
>>258952797 >Didn't need the lock on gimmick to be a complete game >Didn't need the lock on gimmick to be a complete game >Didn't need the lock on gimmick to be a complete game >Needing TWO games for the complete experience
Also didn't help that both S3 and S&K had less levels than S2.
CD a shit. The level design is a mess, most of the levels are just remakes of Sonic 1's, the time travel gimmick is annoying and horribly implemented due to the levels are based on exploration, instead of speed, which the time travel is based upon. The only good thing is the special stages, cutscenes, and music.
>>258955770 I really shouldn't like Sonic but there's something about the carefree/surreal spirit of Sonic's games (Save 2006 fuck that) that I love despite the wavering quality of his damn games. Even the fangames like LakeFepard's shit seem to carry that feeling.
Then Boom happened and I don't know how to feel anymore. It's so awful I can;t even look at it.
I'd say 2 has the most consistent quality but 3&K probably wins overall but honestly I feel that's cheating because it's basically two games and the amount of content is a large part of why people like it
>>258958350 Because judging it as a whole is like judge games with expansion packs as wholes which is exactly what sonic and knuckles was. As the "whole package", it was better sonic 2 by making tails more useful, adding knuckles as well as a new assortment of shields with different, etc. is your ego satisfied?
>>258961642 >Fire Shield made you immune to fire >Useful as fuck vs the Angel Island boss and absolutely indispensable in Lava Reef, not to mention the air burst move was fucking awesome >Bubble Shield let you breathe underwater >Absolutely indispensable for Hydrocity >The bounce was kinda useless >Lightning Shield >Attracts rings right to you and the double jump was great and hella useful
>>258961318 Who the fuck DOESN'T count S3&K as one game? I don't give a shit about how Sonic 3 or Sonic and Knuckles play standalone. The intention was for them to be one whole game anyways, which is why the fucking lock-on was even a thing.
I'm sorry that you're just too autistic to recognize S3&K as a whole but that's not my problem, retard.
>>258955620 Sonic CD is based on exploration thus making it the hardest Sonic to complete. Sonic CD is easy to beat but really freaking hard to complete.
Also, Sonic 3 and Knuckles is STILL the best platformer around. There's just no contest. It nails pretty much everything extremely well. I honestly can't name a single bad thing about the damn game. Like another anon said, it's basically a perfect game.
>>258962795 I try to love CD but I can't play it carefree because it is so god damn hard trying to go to the past to blow up those fuckin things and if you miss one then the whole game feels like a waste.
>>258962342 Only retards willingly to pay for two parts of the same games, good thing I never for that trap and got shit like comix zone, ristar dynamite headdy vector man. But please, continue to justify buying jigsaw pieces, my inept chum.
Sonic 3 & Knuckles, if the lock-on counts as one game. I have plenty of nostalgia for Sonic 2, and in fact, I didn't get a chance to play Sonic 3 until much later in my teen years. Still, Sonic 2 has some terrible problems that can't be ignored:
>Way too fucking long for a game that lacks any back-up battery or password system. This is considering they even cut some zones from the game before final release. Apparently it was going to be even longer.
>Special stages are really unfair. At least the special stages in Sonic 3 are actually beatable without ridiculous amounts of rote memorization. Sonic 2 doesn't give you enough opportunities to repeat the special stages if you fail, whereas you replay them in Sonic 3 at any time.
>>258963835 Metropolis Zone was such a fucking butchery. >Clear the rest of the game flawlessly >Get shit on by every sort of trap and bullshit enemy in Metropolis. I think it even had the hardest boss in the Genesis series.
I know handhelds weren't mentioned, but Sonic 2 for GG and SMS was actually my favorite game in the series. There's something charming about the level design, even though boss fights are extremely unfair due to boss stages having absolutely no rings available. I imagine most people got a Game Over as soon as they made it to Green Hills Act 3. If not, the Scrambled Egg Act 2 probably finished them off.
>>258962934 Better to dodge a bullet and miss a few moments of bliss that to end up like some poor shmoo on deviantart. The snes had a better line up of games. Genesis had great games, but the snes was a better investment in longevity both in quantity and quality
>>258963276 >>258963790 I actually figured that out on my own through intuition. I realized that some barrels didn't move while some did. With the barrels I pressed up and down to see if it did anything and it worked. And this one had no other way out. So, I figured the barrel had to be moved up and down enough. Lo and behold, I was right. So, I didn't have much trouble there.
As someone who grew up with the first three and recently played CD...CD totally wins out. The Japanese OST is amazing, sprite art is incredible, and the atmosphere cannot be remade. Getting all good futures wasn't hard except for Wacky Workbench Act 1.
My only issue was the lackluster bosses and weird controls in the bonus stages.
What's your favorite track? mine's Quartz Quardrant present, especially the chill as fuck part in the middle. Actually, what kind of music or bands capture that chill feeling?
>>258965440 Sonic CD is pure Naoto Ohshima unfiltered. To me, Sonic's world always fits best with the 90's. Ambient House/Funk with abstract geometrical worlds and the intentional lack of realism despite Sonic's world being a psuedo-Earth from the very beginning..
>>258966346 I personally think Sonic 1 is the weakest by far. Though that doesn't mean it's a bad game. It's just, being essentially a prototype for the other two makes it too barebones compared to the rest. Also, it lacks a lot of replay value because of how barebones it is. It's still a solid game though. I play it maybe once every 2 years or so. But Sonic 3 and Knuckles and Sonic CD I keep coming back to a lot more.
>>258966857 I think most modern games are overrated and they're dull due to how braindead simple and mindless they are. Not that there aren't good modern games but they're needle in a haystack to find now. How ironic am I being now?
Sonic Chaos was pretty fun, but I thought the zone designs were a bit more generic compared to Sonic 2. It's like the game was handled by a different development team. Gigaolpolis, Sleeping Egg and Aqua Planet were kind of fun.
At least Chaos had introduced special stages to the handheld games. Sonic 1 and 2 just had the Chaos Emeralds lying around in hard to reach spots. In Sonic 1, you actually had to grab an invincibility box then jump into a pit of spikes and grab one of the Emeralds just sitting in that spot.
>>258967604 Sonic 2 is the most frustrating of the trilogy, imo. It's hard to explain but the levels feel like a slog to get through. Chemical Plant Zone had those floating platform over the chemical water, Aquatic Hill Zone had a lot of underwater. Hill Top Zone had annoying lava pits, Mystic Cave had annoying enemy and obstacle placement. Wing Fortress could be tricky, and the Death Egg was just plain mean with so little rings. I still like the game quite a bit, but it's definitely somewhat of a chore of a game to play out of the trilogy.
lets talk about Sonic CD for a moment in all the bad futures for the zones they all have a derelict look with machinery everywhere. And in Sonic 4 Episode 2 which takes place after CD eggman turns that same planet into a second death egg
So /v/, how old were you when you learned about the air bubbles?
>Play Sonic since 1994 >Water levels scar me for life >Be pre-teen in early 2000s >Turns out my best friend had Sonic CD >Watch him play for a bit >He's on the water stage >Confused as to how he's going to survive >Watch as the bubbles give him air >Feel like the world's biggest retard
>>258968735 Sanic 2 if anything is too easy. I just trance through the thing while Sonic 1 has a steep difficulty curve and Sonic 3 has crazy levels that go all over the place and a generally harder second half.
>>258968868 Sonic 4 Episode 2 basically flopped. They're not doing anything much with Sonic anymore besides the occasional game. Sega is basically a Pachinko company now. Hell, most of the great companies like Sega, Konami, Capcom, etc. are basically Pachinko and something not video games related companies now. It's really sad. They might do one video games project every couple of years now though.
>>258969832 I really want to buy this, but I'd rather step on a Lego than buy a Backbone produced port collection. The fact it has WELL more than just Genesis games really is a good reason to get it though.
I'd just rather Sega bother to bring us M2's Sega Ages sets is all.
>>258948547 Sonic 3 & Knuckles. No doubt, it's the best Sanic game. Order as follows. >S3&K > S2 > S3 > SK > SCD > S1 Your opinions may vary. Sanic CD is just too much like the first game, which is a bad thing when the second game is so fucking godly. Sanic 4 Ep1 Sucks, Ep2 is much better but still not that great.
>>258962342 What the hell is this "lock on" you guys keep mentioning?
Also, gonna say s3&k was the best. So fucking fun. I don't care if it's a little too easy, what with being able to easily collect all 7 CEs by the Marble whateverthefuck and getting all SCEs pretty early on too (icecap zone was where I'd get the last of them)
>>258971064 Sonic 3 and Knuckles were sold separately due to limitations. To "get" Sanic 3 and Knuckles you had to stick Sonic and Knuckles on top of 3 before turning the game on. Otherwise you'd just Sonic 3 without the Knuckles levels or Sonic and Knucles without the ability to save.
Most re-releases still allow you to play them seperately for some reason.
>>258971064 Sonic & Knuckles had a special cartridge which allowed you to lock on to other Sonic games for added effects. Adding it to the following Sonic 1 - Unlimited random blue sphere Sonic 2 - Knuckles playable in Sonic 2 Sonic 3 - Knuckles playable in Sonic 3, added save features for Sonic & Knuckles levels, hyper emeralds, basically the true and complete way to play the game.
Sadly the Genesis collection on PS3/360 does not include lock on versions, which is a true crime.
If it's any consolation, the presentation is pretty good. The emulation quality doesn't suck, but some of the sound effects in Sonic are off, namely when you hit the end of the level sign in Sonic 2. I liked the inclusion of borders around the screen, like background images of rings or cityscapes. Of course, this is a collection for an HD system, so that's preferable to having the game screen stretched out and distorted.
Huh. Since I was a kid, I only played it on PC from a ghetto-ass burned CD a friend made for me that had S3&K on it. I never knew about the lock on system or it not being sold as a unit. I've only ever played it as the way it was "meant" to be played.
Though eventually I used the blue knuckles glitch for the hell of it on a file with all super emeralds. Shit got weird.
>>258948547 >Sonic 3 & Knuckles Easily the best. The most content, the biggest levels, transitions, seamlessly integrated character specific paths, improved co-op, etc.
>Sonic CD Easy 2nd place. Has more grandiose levels than 1 or 2. Breaks the mold of the series, putting a huge emphasis on exploration, both because you need to track down generators and holograms to destroy, but also because you need to find the ideal places for gainan and maintainan Sanic Speed for time travel. Learning the level design and mastering small tricks allow easy navigation through the confusing stage layouts. Multiple versions of every Act of every Zone. Multiple methods of getting the good ending. Overall more challenging.
>Sonic 2 Beats Sonic 1 for third place. Has co-op, bigger levels, more abilities, a usable reward for getting the Chaos Emeralds.
>Sonic 1 Still fucking great, despite being in dead last. Introduced the speed-centric gameplay. You can go fast. You need to learn where you should go fast. You need to learn how to quickly pick up speed, and to quickly reign it back in. It's in last place because the above 3 titles pull this off more gracefully.
>>258962795 Keep in mind the Time Travel gimmick was originally planned for Sonic 1 but didn't meet the cut and was too ambitious at the time.
>>258948547 Sonic 3&K. I was never a fan of the level design in Sonic CD, even with Taxman's version updating the physics and giving both soundtracks, and I just prefer 3&K (mostly 3) over Sonic 2. Especially Complete, which basically nullifies the need to ever use anything else Sonic 3 rom-wise in terms of base gameplay.
Best Mega-Drive sonic? Sonic 2, could never get into Sonic 3 or S&K, and i've played both more times than i want to count. Sonic 2 just had a certain charm that's lacking in later titles. Although the best Sonic is Sonic for the Master System. Flawless soundtrack, nice levels, challenging boss fights, best endgame of any Sonic.
>>258974098 Yeah, we get shit like Werehog and Lost World. I'd rather they keep it simple and stop trying to add gimmicks to a game. Generations showed they could make a great game if they kept it simple.
>>258974661 What? Because you say so? Opinions don't mean shit and I refuse to get baited into arguing whether your opinion is true or not. Sonic 2 was simply a better and more well made game. Fuck off, sperg.
>>258974661 Not the guy you're responding to, but honestly, the 'superiority' is pretty damn subjective. Sonic 2 streamlines Sonic 1's formula while solidifying it, CD takes a different route more based around slower-paced exploration and analyzing the levels for speed so you can time travel (although you can get the good ending without ever actually having to time travel on your own, so it's kinda moot), and 3&K mixes a shitton of level paths with the focus of 2 so the stages get longer but simultaneously vast without becoming fucking Sonic Heroes; it's less about mondo exploration and more about plenty of secrets and routes.
That's not even getting into the content of the individual games, but it really comes down to preference because while they're basically the same base at heart, it branches off in so many different ways it's impossible to call one 'better' than the rest.
>>258975167 In terms of objectivity, CD has more meat to it in terms of Zones, Acts, and versions of Acts. Sonic CD presents two entirely independent paths you can choose to reach the good ending (you could even do both if you want). The challenge of the game is also fairly consistent throughout, unlike Sonic 2's piss-easy nature up until the brick wall that is Metropolis Zone. People slight the game for it's "messy" level design, but it works as a means to hinder your ability to time travel, but there are indeed parts in every Act, in every Zone, where you can reach and maintain the speed necessary for time travel. You have to work for that shit, and when you work for it enough, you get a pay off. That makes Sonic CD a different beast than the likes of 1, 2, and 3K.
Trust me, my individual preference is for Sonic 2. I like the aesthetics of it more, I like the music more, it was the first game I ever played and I have a great feeling of nostalgia for it. But in terms of which is the better game, Sonic CD just does more for the series to successfully make a unique experience, whereas Sonic 2 is just a marginally different Sonic 3K, relative to CD. If you catch my Drift.
>>258975290 How were they done poorly? Explain your points boy.
>>258977139 Well you showed me man. I guess I'll just try to fabricate reasons to hate CD like the rest of /v/.
Well there was this one time I tried holding right to win, and the game didn't let me. I tried some other stuff, and the game was just a dick. Guess instead of getting better at the game and learning how to efficiently traverse the terrain, I'll write it off as bad level design and hope the rest of /v/ parrots my opinion :^)
If they did another 2D/2.5D Sonic game (it's inevitable, even if Sonic 4 is dead they still really want to cash in on nostalgia somehow), what would you guys prefer
Homing Attack / Air Dash, or Elemental Shields & Insta-Shield? Or something new, but we've already had Spindash, Super Peelout, Insta-Shield, Homing Attack/Air Dash and Boost, i'm not sure what the hell else Sonic could learn.
That's not true and you know it -- when the Genesis hit hard, it hit hard (Ranger-X, Gunstar Heroes, Castlevania Bloodlines, Shinobi III, Ristar, etc), but most Genesis games had shit graphics and audio next to the SNES. >yes, 1988 hardware vs 1990 hardware, but still
As a whole, the SNES aged better.
>>258978124 >advance 2 >above CD >spinball=sonic 1 >3D >above sonic 1
god fucking damn it why is this bait making me reply
>>258978646 1's level design is solid. It's significantly better than 2 and 3's as a whole, it's not DIMPSy at all.
Advance 2 was still fun, but it defined DIMPS shit level design.
Advance 3 had better design in parts, and hilariously worse in others. Cool-ass soundtrack at least, best music on GBA other than Mother 3.
>>258978618 What's so bad about Rush Adventure? It's got solid level design, it's just got dumb shit between stages. Colors DS and Generations 3DS are true shit though. Holy fuck. Really embarrassing level design.
>>258978653 Not really bait since I kinda hold them all pretty high up in general. But I guess I should put more ">>>" to emphasize what was better than the rest. >>258978646 And I totally get that. For some reason I had a huge attachment to advanced 2 and I'm gonna partly blame the sense of fast it gave you. You totally have a point of it having shit level design. >>258978473 Hey hey hey, like the other dudes. This is just an opinion. Like em' this way. Not fact.
>>258979083 I dunno. Angel Island was filled with pits, and Egg Rocket had some nasty cases of maze design combined with spike/badnik traps like later DIMPS games. But I sorta wish they remade Advance 1 proper instead of made Sonic 4, because I loathe this strict Sonic 2 nostalgia mixed with CD. It's like how Nintendo barely acknowledges everything that isn't Super Mario Bros. 3, up until there were more World influences in NSMBU and 3D World; or how Mega Man's last two major games that weren't of a sequel series were 9 and 10, which both cater hardcore to Mega Man 2 and nothing else besides some nods and a boss that copies weapons from across the series in 10.
>>258980307 It's weird, Rush was pretty alright and Rush Adventure wasn't.. necessarily bad, though I haven't touched Colors DS. But after some questionable design here and there in the GBA and DS games, DIMPS has basically been nothing but shit since then. Sonic 4 was bland out the wazoo with no soul and no feeling of actual, honest-to-god effort. Generations 3DS was a rushjob with horrible level design when it wasn't 3 classic stages literally ripped straight from the original games, less of a distance between Classic and Modern Sonics, and some downright lazy design choices. And Lost World 3DS.. could've been better than the Wii U version if they refined the slipperiness out of the controls and then made the game design not SUCK HORRIBLY.
It's like their level designers are degrading with every single passing game.
>>258981383 That's been happening since Adventure 1. The old Genesis games were made with weird, geometric shapes for everything for not only a rather unique feel, but also to contrast with Sonic's rounded nature when he's spinning around.
Then they figured let's make Sonic fight to save animu humans, and then it eventually snowballed into Sonic 06's Felix the soulless Cat puppets standing next to mannequins aping human motions and expressions. It's plain horrifying. Not sure what to think about Lost World just suddenly flip-flopping design straight back to cube-jello trees and strange shapes again because nostalgiawhoring, either.
>>258971693 Sonic 3 and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles and Knuckles
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