/who/ - Doctor Who General: my name jeff edition

Clara? Clara Who?

>>84523488
>flying mondasian cybermen actually happened
For fucks sake, can't they keep anything sacred?

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>"Stupid, stupid Doctor!"

Man the series 11 trailer was GOAT, surprised they released it so early.

>>84523488
Oh noooo, please nooo, Jenna Coleman is such a useless cuuunt!

>>84523518
> a water lesbian is god

thanks moff

>a council estate chav is god

thanks rtd

>>84523537
he's not really that bad right

>>84523488
>>84523399
Dubs confirm Clara returns at Christmas

How did The Master survive this one?
Or are they finally dead for good now that they can't be a villain anymore?

>>84523620
YES RETURN MY LOVE

I love what happened with Bill and Heather because FOR ONCE it shows us that The Doctor IS NOT the most incredible/powerful/interesting person or thing in the universe or the only one who can show people the universe; sometimes he's just a gateway drug that shows companions what's out there and then they can go off on their own to explore it themselves in the way that they want. Sometimes they can say thanks for everything and leave. The world keeps spinning without him.

It was really refreshing. In a tiny way to somewhat improved Clara's ending cause it fits the same theme of you know, he's not all that special all the time. You can do what he does in other ways.

Jack and River time traveling and doing their own thing however they wanted was some of the strongest and most admirable parts of their characters.

So I was really pleased with Bill leaving by choice that way.

Also glad goat puddle girl returned, I said it a few days ago, only ex machina I'd be okay with.

>>84523660
>>84523620
bust a' in sister

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>12's speech pleading with the Masters
>The Masters fittingly stabbing each other in the back, killing each other and losing their shit laughing about it
>Nardole being literally fucking based throughout the entire episode
>12 running through the forest fucking massacring an army of Cybermen while Heaven Sent music blares in the background before he's finally taken out, nuking the forest in the process
>fucking 1 and 12 meeting up
>all of these GOAT moments stuffed inside an episode with a weak as fuck plot and an absolute batshit resolution involving a space lesbian puddle god

I've never felt more fucking conflicted about a Doctor Who episode in my life. I have been well and truly Moffucked, in every hole. And he's still got one more episode left to completely fuck me sideways. I want off Moff's wild ride lads.

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Are you ready to obey her again, /who/?

>Dat reference to Voord Cybermen on Marinus
>"People always get the Cybermen wrong"
>I don't even know what Planet 14 is
>I don't want to go, when the doctor was me
>Where there's [life] tears, there's hope

Beautiful

What is Planet 14 btw?

>>84523689
>because FOR ONCE it shows us that The Doctor IS NOT the most incredible/powerful/interesting person or thing in the universe
I guess you're forgetting Omega, the Guardians, Logopolis keeping the universe from dying, Rassilon, etc. The Doctor has never been the most powerful force in the universe.

>>84523689
>buy Marvel comics! consume consume! my cock is for nothing!

>>84523768
tbqh none of those are from nuwho, or moffat's era

>>84523736

Nardole:
>smart as fuck
>hilarious
>gets to live out the rest of his days with a qt milf and has literally dozens of kids to raise and defend.

living the dream tbqh

>>84523782
>d-doesn't count
Fucking pleb

Complaining that the colourisation of the footage shortly before the Cybermen attack is "lifeless and dead inside" is kind of weird, because that's the point - it's supposed to feel hopeless and depressed, because that's how The Doctor feels.

Television has been a literal medium for so long that a little bit of symbolism or surrealism happens and people lose their minds

>>84523736
It's just high concept movie-style Who. Lots of great moments iconically, then you put together what it means, and it's a turd.

>>84523768
>>84523782
>>84523793

the other anon was right, I was commenting on Moffat's portrayal of The Doctor during his era. He was treated a lot more humbly during all past eras.

>>84523797
You shouldn't attempt to condescend to people when you don't know what "symbolism" or "surrealism" mean.

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>>84523689
>In a tiny way to somewhat improved Clara's ending cause it fits the same theme
I feel like this whole finale has been Moffat fixing his former tropes.
>Master raising an army of cybermen
>Helpless girl realizes she's been converted
>Companion turned cyberman
>Space lesbians

These seem like things that frequently circulate Moffman's mind.

>>84523488
Not gonna happen. Coleman's too busy filming her show. Also, when Capaldi was asked about this at a panel and was told it was kind of a tradition for companions to return for a regeneration he got kinda defensive and asked who makes these rules anyway.

>>84523847
you reckon moff ever fugged one of the cast

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Remember when this was a meme we all laughed at? Still sad we got no dancing to 'I Want to Break Free'

>>84523862
Alex Kingston probably.

>>84523864
I remember when we memed Mondasian Cybermen flying.

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>>84523862
Who do you think started the watersports meme?

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>>84523689
I'm not into it. Why is some random puddle that leaked out of an alien spaceship more powerful than the time lords?
Are the aliens that made that puddle some kind of hidden ultimate power of the universe that even the time lords don't know about?

This seems to be happening a lot lately now that I think of it.
Those viking aliens had tech that can make people immortal just lying around.
The Doctor couldn't fix his eyes, but the monks could do it instantly from across the planet.

They're really taking a shit on the time lords here.

>>84523839
I'm aware that fucking with the colours is neither symbolism nor surrealism, that was an adjacent point

>>84523862
He couldn't so he's turning every character they play into a lesbian to justify it to himself

>>84523902
yeah, was there even any reference in the pilot episode about the water cunt being able to maniplate things on an atomic level?

>>84523838
Honestly that's the least of the problems with Moffat era Dr Who.

>male companions are the useless boyfriends of the female companion until Nardole
>mary sue companions with too much focus on them as opposed to the Doctor
>lel so randumb xD shit
>new aliens almost always being some kind of 3spooky5me crap
>last few episodes dedicated to plot holes
>poorly thought out over arching seasonal themes that cause said plot holes that need to be explained in the series finales

At least this season was starting to break away from that with good companions though Bill reminding the audience she's a lesbian every possible moment god old quick and decent stories except the Monks, that was everything wrong with Moffat era all wrapped in to one

>>84523738
Is she activating her Sharingan

>>84523902
Doctor Who has a recurring idea of "humanity is special and creative and etc." so whenever humans are combined with alien stuff, it tends to go beyond its original limits.

Anyways Heather was exaggerating, at the end of the day she and Bill and anything they create is just shapeshifting liquid, and they're both dead but have their consciousnesses piloting these puddles. They can shapeshift, mentally link with people, and fly. That's it. Unless they can also time travel but that was vague to me?

I don't know how you think Timelords cannot literally rearrange atoms to make anything they want. They have machines that create anything you need installed in their TARDISes. They can control time itself. Puddle girls aren't more powerful than them by a long shot.

>>84523960
>>84523902
It's just Bill's get out of jail free card. If it's the trade off for a fairly consistent finale, I'll take it. Certainly a lot cleaner than whatever sense they tried to make of Clara's exit.

>>84523864
I'm a bit fuzzy on the timeline, were there already small rumors of a David Bradley appearance or were we the first ones to propagate that idea when we decided to troll GB and Whelan with it? If so, holy shit we fucking actually harnessed meme magic this time.

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>Hay yous wuvly peopwuls!! Dun' forge' ta tickle dat wike bwutton and subscwibe fa' moor siwwy and wandom docta hoo videas. Hugs and kwisses and have a wibbly wobbly wonderfwal day!! :P

FUCK. I THINK I KNOW WHY THEY'RE DOING THE CAPALDI IS TIRED OF REGENERATIONS THING AND HOW IT WILL LIKELY GO DOWN IN THE CHRISTMAS SPECIAL:

>Capaldi has some dialogue about being tired of going on tired of everything
>One is all, "Hmph. Tired of everything, you say? There's a great big universe out there to see."
>Capaldi: "I've seen it all. Blah blah blah moan moan."
>One: "Tut tut, What you need, my boy, is a change of perspective. Hmm.. yes change.. and not a moment too soon, I might add!"
>One giggles with glee
One: "I might have to save that one for later!"
>Capaldi talks about how he's gone through various changes already and how not even that's enough anymore
>One: "Then perhaps you need a REAL change, hmm? We Time Lords aren't just limited to.."
>One gestures to himself and Capaldi
>One: "this."
>Capaldi doesn't catch on and One moves on deciding not to press the issue
>Later in the episode after One has said his goodbyes and all and Capaldi can no longer hold back regeneration the First Doctor's words about a real change. The current Doctor smiles with peace now ready for change, it finally clicks how he can get a completely new perspective on the universe.
>The Doctor says his final words and regenerates into the first female bodied incarnation

Sorry for the off the fly of my ass fanfic but, cringy writing aside I truly believe this is basically the direction we're headed for.

>>84523983
Those are more writing and structure and narrative problems, but the actual way the character of the Doctor is portrayed, acted, and treated in-universe is more substantial and tangible of a problem I think. A canon problem if you will, whereas the stuff you described is more "meta"? But I agree, Moff era is a LOT of shit bundled together.

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>>84524094
Your fucking days as a meme are numbered, kiddo. Once the real 13th Doctor is announced everyone will forget that you were ever even """""in the running""''.

>>84524102
It works, but I feel like that's too obvious. Twelve deserves something more profound than a simple change of gender to give him new insight.

>missy beb
>bill alive

Man they really picked the wrong order, eh?

>>84524115
At least Capaldi was a good Doctor, but I agree, he's treated in universe as too much of a god like figure. Like with the Daleks making him their god of destruction or whatever.

Meanwhile in the original series he was just a random Time Lord that decided to bool across space and time.

>>84524086
Not too sure, there must have been a tiny rumor that only we and GB knew about.

>>84524102
Sounds plausible I guess, I just hope you're wrong.

>>84524102
Nah, that's too heavy handed and goes against the Doctor's whole attitude about gender. The Doctor, and Twelve in particular, is absolutely the one who would say "what, you think after 2000 years I'd see the universe in a completely different light just because my chest bounces when I walk?" And dismiss it completely.

It'll probably be more tactful than that if their plan is to help ease in the female Doctor option. Probably a "anything can change" line and then let it speak for itself and not actually discuss it like a major issue. Plenty of timelords, it seems, change gender and none seem to really give a shit or like recommend it to eachother. It's just another aesthetic thing for them like hair color.

>>84524168
Yeah even for most of RTDs era the show was centred around each story, rather than the characters. Now the show is literally just about the doctor and the story takes a back seat

>>84524025
It chased the tardis across the universe, is impervious to daleks, can turn cybermen into normal people, and isn't a big clumsy box with a supernova inside of it and full of breakable technology.

>>84524207
>Now the show is literally just about the doctor
It was more about the mary sue companion than the Doctor for a lot of Moffat's run.

>>84524203
>>84524102
Because if any Doctor is pro gender bedning, it'd be one.

>>84524207
That's why I was so impressed that Missy died and the Doctor didn't have a chance to see her true change of heart. A rare instance that a character had an incredibly meaningful development that the Doctor wasn't affected by/didn't experience/basically was done for the sake of the character and not for the sake of the Doctor and how he reacts to it. It felt like it meant so much more that way.

>>84524245
But, at the same time, it also snubs any chance of that developing any further. It's basically just there to vaguely touch on it and then say "lol nah".

>>84524133
Damn right, Kris, he's just two kids in a trenchcoat!

>>84524239
>capalidi regenerates into a woman in front of one
>"what do you think?"
>you DEGENERATE FAGGOT
>bashes 13s head in with a rock
>13 regenerates into a man

How would I go about illegally watching classic who on an iPhone, /who/? The vk video player isn't working for me.

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>>84524245
I really hope that moment gains the appreciation it deserves in these threads. It was genuinely Missy's greatest.

>>84524275
It's a climax. Anything more would cheapen it.

>>84524231
It's also a fucking puddle. Also when did it withstand Dalek fire, didn't it just shapeshift into one to avoid being shot?

Sometimes there's crazy shit in the universe. The Time Lords are the big empire who claim authority over all the time shit, but they're not the only ones who can time travel. Puddle/Pilot is probably last of its kind or some shit. An accident. The rest of its substance is just smart rocket fuel.

>>84524275
It's Moffat's final episodes, it wasn't going to develop further. This is the ending as far as this iteration of the character goes. The character development happened, and it concluded in a meaningful way, and then the story ended.

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>There are actually """people""" who think the Master is permanently dead and will never reappear on Doctor Who ever again

>companion montage
>rose but no mickey
>amy but no rory
>fucking vastra and jenny but no strax

literal misandry

>>84524355
Even I don't believe this and I wish it was true.

>>84524327
Oh I don't doubt it. She's been the biggest liked thing of this season and I highly doubt she'll go away. SOmehow she'll be back.

>>84524327
This is also an interesting way to write the character because we see how The Master's life ends. However, we have not actually seen or heard in-show for sure if that's every regeneration, so there could be like 10 more Masters between Simm And Gomez and the writers for them could explore the road between "Fuck You Missy" and "I Want My Friend Back".

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>>84524355
>"""people"""
What did he mean by this?

>>84524307
It was a beautiful scene. I understand when people say the Masters were underused or sidelined in this episode, but honestly their small little story that ran throughout the episode was brilliantly done.

>>84524385
You're missing my point. Missy was Moffat's character. She's simultaneously the Master, but she has her own arc too. This is how that arc concludes.
In true Doctor Who fashion, someday the Master will be back again, but this is where this chapter of the story for that character ends, since Moffat's leaving. He wrapped it up for that reason.

>>84524419
Still sucks that John Simm finally nailed down the Master pretty much perfectly, only to die in one episode.

>>84524355
He'll be back, people.
You'll just have to wait.

>>84524359
Because they were all female and the fact the fucking fluid tear shit happened makes me wonder if it really might be a female doctor next.

>>84524397
The problem here is that the timelines are out of sync because of Two Masters so Simm Master wouldn't really remember how he died. He just wakes up.

Or it just explain why Missy isn't sure if she is the next one after Simm, cause this is blurry how she died.

>>84524448
Jack and Nardole ain't female.

>>84524443
That's true. No drums bollocks at all, it was nice.

>>84524443
RTD was apparently the reason that he didn't have the goatee. Whereas Moffat told Simm to keep it. Frankly I think he looks far more "Master"-esque with it.

Guys can we keep on topic, when is our QUEEN Clara coming back????????????

>>84524508
The outfit was great too

>>84524516
Never, the plot just abandoned her.

>>84524520
yeah he looked fucking awesome when he walked up to the Doctor and RoboBill

>>84524102
>One: "Tut tut, What you need, my boy, is a change of perspective. Hmm.. yes change.. and not a moment too soon, I might add!"
>One giggles with glee
>One: "I might have to save that one for later!"

If Moffat could pull it off in a way that doesn't feel forced or unnatural for the incarnation I would actually enjoy seeing instances throughout the christmas finale of 1st saying things that his future incarnations will use. Maybe he suggests at one point Capaldi reverses the polarity of the neutron flow? Maybe he offers Capaldi or someone else a jelly baby? Maybe 1st finds something to be "Fantastic!"? Maybe he makes reference to the coolness of bow ties? (although I really hope that last one doesn't happen)

I was really irked by some of the shots they used for the companions montage at the end. Some looked good and some looked fucking stupid. A closeup on Rose in a nice framing and color and an iconic scene probably, but Clara standing in a waist/thighs-up shot far from the camera wearing some random outfit not usual for her style or iconic scenes in some really washed out overcast setting? I dunno it felt like they didn't try at all and grabbed the first shots they could find instead of trying to have some kind of visual consistency. It was weird. Why was Jack running? Just pick a thing and stick with it or else it really seems stuck in without any thought

>>84524307
>stumble upon Missy lying in the woods
>wat do?

>>84524516
Definitely Christmas. She'll be one of the last faces 12 sees, alongside Missy and River.

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post yfw:
>The Doctor? No, I don't think so. No, dear me, no. You may be *a* doctor, but I am *the* Doctor. The original, you might say.

>>84523536
Turns out they weren't necessarily Mondasian, did you watch the episode?

>>84524516
I like Clala but I don't think she needs to come back. Doesn't seem fitting for the plot of the upcoming Xmas special. Two Doctors is enough.

>>84524567
I really can't decide whether this would have been better with or without Twelve saying the line earlier in the episode?

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>>84524567

>>84523653
The Master has died "for good" three or four times now

>>84524567
I was beaming. I had misgivings but Bradley's One impersonation sounded so much better here

>>84524567
Who else doing a rewatch of One's era to get ready for the Christmas special

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>>84524560
Give her a kiss

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>>84524567

>>84524609
I think it would have been better if he hadn't said it earlier. Literally made no sense for him to say it.

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>>84524567

>Moffat remembered Simmaster's misogyny and accounted for it

Genuinely impressed.

>>84524355
If he's back within a decade, I will be upset.

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>>84524567

>>84524567
Honestly, it was the first (and hopefully last) time I acted like a fucking squeeing youtube reacter type twat. I was honestly shouting "NO WAY NO FUCKING WAY" at the screen the whole time with shock turning into a simultaneously shocked and delighted "HOLY SHIT!!!!!" when One came into full view.

I mean I can take some comfort in the fact that I wasn't played to any fucking cameras but, still, I'm rather embarrassed at my display even though no one else besides God was there to see it.

>>84524355
In fairness, he's never been not a villain before. He came back in the past so he could be a villain again. But if he can't be a villain anymore, there's no reason to bring him back.

>no more of the best companion
RIP Nardole

>>84524397

>there could be 10 more Masters between Simm and Gomez

How are people still not grasping the idea that this is exactly what they were going for.

We've seen how The Master finally dies, that doesn't mean he'll never show up again.

>>84524654
I think it makes sense in the context that his old lines are leaking out of him. Not too long after that he recounts Tennant's and Smith;s regen lines after all.

>>84524715
Of course he'll be a villain again. They'll most likely make his next regeneration think the whole turning good was stupid.

>>84524717
You misspelled Bill.

why cant murray gold score episodes like he did this and last week all the time

>>84524773
>Bill
>best anything
I'd take Donna fucking Noble over her.

>>84523488
Fucking hell that was a near perfect finale. By far the best one in NuWho and probably the best episode in the whole new series barring Heaven Sent.

The whole plotline between World Enough and Time and The Doctor Falls definitely felt like Moffat trying pretty hard to make his own version of Caves of Androzani. The fact that it paid off is a miracle.

>>84524773
she wasn't even the best companion in her own season

What stood out to me was how Twelve actually fucking did something "clever" and Doctor-y at the start of the episode, the whole smug bantering while revealing he took advantage of the Master's hubris and distraction to quickly type up an easy but overlooked solution to the cyberman thing and turn a bad situation to his favor and force the plot to advance and give him the upper hand, and it was only the start of the ep rather than the end. It made sense, was simple, and wasn't a magic screwdriver power.

I feel like for far too much of Twelve's run, Moffat did the whole "briefly glimpse and allude to offscreen adventure, endlessly talk about how clever and dangerous the Doctor is, but never actually show him FUCKING DOING ANYTHING ONSCREEN" thing, and instead Twelve spends a lot of time running around behind side characters and giving speeches rarely and usually just watching and waiting for something to happen and saying "don't do it" a lot and then grimacing when the people do whatever it is anyways. Bill literally got shot because all Twelve did is walk around and talk about how cool he is at the guy and say "please don't do it" instead of doing anything to help.

It's something I noticed constantly through the last few years. So something as simple and bullshit as what I described earlier about his opening scene of the episode seemed like something surprisingly active and enjoyable rather than painfully passive.

>>84524731
>>84524397
Bullshit, Missy said she couldn't remember how she regenerated. That's because The Master couldn't retain his memories of their meeting.

And I'm pretty sure he said multiple times that he regenerates into Missy and Missy never denies it. She might have confirmed it, but I don't remember.

It would be one hell of a coincidence if Missy just decided not to tell him about the other regenerations and The Master regenerates under similar conditions somewhere down the line.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg3kg2IZ22A
>they played the music from the end of An Adventure in Space and Time where Hartnell departs during the scene where Capaldi meets the First Doctor
based

>>84524777
Hmm almost like maybe he's giving his all because, after this and the Christmas special he isn't going to be involved anymore?

The reveal of who the new Doctor is won't be the only big game changing announcement we get between now and Christmas, mark my words.

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>>84524355
The Master probably will be back, just not in an incarnation beyond Missy. Missy is the true end of the Master.

But then again maybe not. Pic related.

anyone else happy we had a companion that was only in one season again?

>>84524773
Bill is b far Moffat's worst companion. All of the chance at development she was supposed to have got wasted in Lie of the Land.

>>84524842
>you are now imagining WEAT and TDF with the Eric Roberts Master in place of Simm

>>84524823
Then it could be other past regenerations. Or it could just be future regenerations too; the point is that no matter what there's always easy ways to bring back The Master. Maybe Missy is holding back her regeneration too you don't know for sure. She got her hands on the laser screwdriver and could've tampered it. She has twice already used an enemy laser attack to trick them into thinking she dead while something else happened. It could even be more bullshit master fuckery (a fucking snake, a fucking CULT RITUAL)

>>84524810
+1

>>84524873
Yes, if only because Bill was a washout in the end.

>>84524873
No i wanted more nardole

>>84524915
never knew she was such a squirter

>>84524906
don't insult me like this

Did anyone else think the effect of Missy being shot by the laser screwdriver was kinda gruesome? It looked like her face was being melted off

I liked it

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>>84524567

when did the doctor actually fall?

>>84524922
actually yeah this, nardole should have stayed

>>84524924
-1 unrelated

>>84524924
Sorry, I was going to write a much more thoughtful post about how cohesive and logical this episode felt, with the plot progressing organically, but I gave up on it midway through

>>84524926
It very briefly looked like a variation of a regeneration effect but then I realized it was just being laser'd to death and it hit even harder. Pretty cool stuff. Like an improved Dalek death X-ray.

>>84524934
at the very end, into the snow

>>84524934
Out of the spaceship in the beginning

People being disappointed that we didn't get to see Simm's regeneration into Gomez but, if anything our disappointment should be with the fact that we saw Jacobi regenerate into Simm.

It's kind of tradition we don't get see The Master regenerate (s)he just sort of "pops in" suddenly with a new look. So thank you, Moffat for trying to preserve that and fuck you, RTD for messing with that tradition.

>>84524934
He fell where he stood. Aka he fuckin died while standing his ground for his beliefs. If it wasn't clear enough from the episode. He also literally fell down because he got shot by cibberlazors

>>84524823

Or she couldn't remember because it was a version that was so long ago. She even said "a very long time ago" when talking about getting slammed up against a wall.

How long was she Missy for before she first appeared?

What is simpler for new writers to do? Have the next Master say they're the next after Simm or come up with an explanation as to how Missy regenerated after we're told she won't be able to and then dies.

>>84524966
Tbqh the cliffhanger of Jacobi regenerating into Simm is so fucking good I can forgive it for messing with tradition

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>>84524889
>Oh, don't forget to drezz for the occasion
>*Stab*

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>>84524926
I feel like it echoes EoT skullface Master.in a way

>>84524873
Only because it was bill. I don't like when they wash out all the characters to bring in a new wave. Breaks the illusion and feels like cheating.

I mean in one episode they get rid of Bill, Nardole, and Missy. Now they get a completely clean slate for the next doctor and it feels like cheating.

When you think about it, Missy did die for her beliefs, just like how the Doctor asked her if she would. She decided to follow the Doctor, and in taking that action, she died.

>>84524966
>It's kind of tradition we don't get see The Master regenerate (s)he just sort of "pops in" suddenly with a new look.
But you are wrong. The only time we didn't see it was because Delgado died.

Later we see Master stealing people's bodies, twice.

>>84525013
I DO like the way Jacobi says "The Master... reborn."

Can anyone explain what the Doctor meant when he asked Nardole, "which one of us is stronger?". Why did this convince Nardole to go along with the plan?

>>84525011
>come up with an explanation as to how Missy regenerated after we're told she won't be able to and then dies.
She remembered shooting her future self and brought a precsution that made her able to regeneratr

What did you all think of Twelve's death, as in the final acts that properly kill him aka the cyberman bombing prance and self-nuke bite. (we literally didn't get a fucking clear explanation from Twelve on what was actually killing him originally and was causing him to fucking regenerate little by little all this time what the fuck)

>>84524567
i saw the leaks so i was already expecting it

>>84524873

Am I the only one sad that Bill has gone?

I mean she was so nuanced and definitely had more than one defining character trait, there was just so much more to explore about her. Hell, I don't thing she mentioned her sexuality, maybe they could have made her a lesbian, that would have been interesting.

>>84525057
He probably worked out that the Doctor had already started regenerating.

>>84525057
I think it was because nardoles ego was so big that he couldnt refuse

Regardless of what you thought of the episode, Capaldi must have fucking loved filming it. You can just tell during the scene in the forest where all the Cybermen are blowing up and Capaldi is listing the numerous occasions when the Doctor has beaten the Cybermen that he was loving it to bits.

>>84525064
I feel like his shit was fucked ever since Oxygen.

>>84525057
The harder option was to stay with people are care about them, and Nardole is stronger to keep this promise, cause Doctor is rubbish - hence the way he treat his oath to never leave the Vault.

>>84525011
I think the simplest way to bring her back is have Missy regenerate. She played dead to survive, but didn't die because reasons.

>>84525064

He got zapped on the roof at the start of the episode.

>>84525064
That was probably red herring from Moffat. So we didn't expect the Cyberman shooting him, because we think he may be already dying.

Just a question, guys, the Master's TARDIS - that's the room that Bill and the Master were in, right?

>>84524355
cool way to bring back the master: simm regenerates into someone other than missy. this might've even been moffat's intention in writing it like this – that the window is still there for potentially several more regenerations of the master, but missy is the end of the road. the master ultimately redeems himself.. or at least tries to

shit way to bring back the master: handwave missy's death that she could regenerate anyways

Is 13 gonna rescue nardole and all those mondasians vecause like the killer robots are still gonna be coming

I enjoyed that more than I thought I would. Very satisfied.

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;_;

>>84525111

How did she get off the ship without a TARDIS?

Now that I think of it did she ever actually have one?

>>84525057
First one to talk gets to stay no my aircraft

>>84525098
>>84525071
>>84525081
Perfect answers. Thanks for explaining it.

Did we ever see capaldi actually leave to do the scene in TDOTD? Or maybe because he's with One now they'll go and do it together

>>84525135
Yeah I don't get how those people are saved. They went up like 5 floors or something. The cybermen flew through hundreds of floors in moments. And because of the time dilation, they bought even less time than normal.

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Am I the only one that thought this special was a bit... subpar?

The Cybermen felt a bit like a non-entity because after they turned on the Master, they had no leader left. All they did was make a loud noise and then march to their deaths.

The Master & Missy working together at the start was good, but the Doctor defeats them. Then for the rest of the episode they spend their time lazying about like bratty teens and making quips at each other, rather than plotting their next scheme to fuck over the Doctor. Missy's emotional moments were good though.

The Bill stuff was good and I like that she never turned back from being a Cyberman. That said her ending is a rehash of Clara's.

Nardole was the biggest disappointment for me. I loved the guy and thought he made for a different and interesting companion. And what end does he get? Dumped on another level of the ship with some kids. I doubt the Doctor will even go back for him in the Christmas special. This is particularly troublesome because Nardole was the only other man the Doctor knew (at the time) that knew River. I thought something would come of that, or the fact Nardole said he himself is the only man assigned and able to kick the Doctor's arse, but nope, off you go with some kids. Wasted potential.

Finally there's the ship itself. What will happen to it? There are other people on other floors, surely? These are questions that never really get answered.

>>84525157
She was in the vault, then in the Doctor's TARDIS, so she was isolated. The only possible explanation I can think of is A. She sneaked on to Simm's TARDIS or B. She sneaked onto the Doctor's TARDIS.

Guys, I think she might properly be dead.

Or maybe we CyberMissy now.

>>84525187
He probably did it between clara and nardole

>>84525157
Same way she got away from the Daleks that one time. Just never bring it up and hope the fanbase forgets.

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>>84525096
He was practically smiling through that whole scene. It was delightful.

>>84525064
A cyberman injured him at the beginning of the episode. Perhaps he was fighting it off and hoping that he could heal through it without triggering a regeneration. But then the whole floor exploded which finished him off and guaranteed the regeneration.

>>84525057
He probably meant emotionally/mentally/maybe even physically stronger. Nardole has spend most of his time on the show demonstrating great wisdom and personal moral strength as well as implying a cool cyborg body. He's resilient, patient, and totally confident in himself and has no insecurities or regrets. He's just a stronger individual and can handle a great responsibility and potential death sentence like that, and whether or not it's the total truth, both Nardole and Twelve believed it. The Doctor has a lot of issues and needs that would make the job harder.. and, Nardole staying and dying instead of the Doctor would mean that the stronger/better man would die and that's a waste. They kind of have this deeper more honest understanding of the Doctor underneath his legendary mystique (but that may be more of a stretch, it could also just be that the Doctor can't bear to live linearly and take care of a bunch of kids and also live with the pain of Nardole sacrificing himself cause sentimental pussy tendencies) But overall It was a really surprising, touching, humble moment, I think.

>Missy
>not being able to regenerate
The whole point of the Masters laughing is because they aren't actually going to die, it's a fucking injoke, man, like when Moffat had Anderson look at all the fan theories and he never explained how Sherlock avoided death.

Moffat just enjoys wanking to his own cleverness.

>>84525192
Its kind of like life. You never truly save somebody, you just delay death a little longer. He gave a whole speech about this.

>>84525235
I thought the whole point was Master/Missy realizing how fucked up they really are. Kind of like when 11 laughed in that holding cell in DotD.

>>84525232
And Bill blasted him which left no marks on his clothes because Moffat is a hack.

>>84525235
They're laughing at the fact that this is how they die. The Master specifically states that what he did will keep her from regenerating.

>Moffat just enjoys wanking to his own cleverness.
Moffat's fucking gone after the next episode. Unless the Christmas special brings Missy back, which is not going to happen, she's done.
He has no more plans for her, as far as he's concerned, Missy died there.
A future showrunner will bring the Master back, but he doesn't give a shit.

>>84525259
Okay, but he bought them what, a few days?

>>84525232
But wasn't the implication that it started earlier because of Missy's "something's wrong I can tell" bit in Empress? Though I really like your explanation that helps

>>84525289
They are only 5 floors up so not even that

So can we agree that The Doctor Falls was not quite kino but pretty good compared to most Doctor Who finales?

>>84525314
>most Doctor Who finales?

most moff finales, yeah

>>84525207
>This is particularly troublesome because Nardole was the only other man the Doctor knew (at the time) that knew River. I thought something would come of that
Something did come of that. That's why Nardole traveled with him.

I thought he got a great ending. A hero's ending, being clever when he wants to, and having friends and companions. Who nose? They may escape the ship one day.

>What will happen to it? There are other people on other floors, surely?

Maybe. Some are probably all Cybermen now. Some will escape, some will be converted. This is the Genesis of the Cybermen. The ship will eventually either become abandoned and drift into the blackhole or drift away from it if the engines are still going. The thrusters are on the slow side of the ship (where the TARDIS landed), so say one month of thrust over there might be centuries or millennia to the rest of the ship. It's hard to know for sure, but I like that it's open ended. Nardole might fail, but as 12 said, that's not the point.

>Then for the rest of the episode they spend their time lazying about like bratty teens and making quips at each other, rather than plotting their next scheme to fuck over the Doctor.

They literally killed themselves. It was fucking glorious.

>The Cybermen felt a bit like a non-entity because after they turned on the Master, they had no leader left. All they did was make a loud noise and then march to their deaths.

And then regroup below decks to do it all over again, sans Doctor. The risk is still there. The Cybermen do win this- eventually they find a way to spread around the universe and cause terror. The only hope is that some people might survive the ship.

>>84525289
>"Maybe its all pointless. But I do it because it is kind....because it is good"
I kind of paraphrased but that is the point. I also assume that he assigned Nardole to this task because he knew Nardole was clever and could take them further up.

>>84525312
I'm giving them extra time because the doctor blew up loads of cybermen. They might take a while to regroup.

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>>84525314
DIAMOND AGE

>>84525192
He also blew up a shitload of cibbers though, so maybe they won't be so eager to attack those people again for a while.

Missy had better fucking regenerate REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>84525192
They did blow up a whole ton of them. There probably aren't that many people left in reserves to fly up or convert. So they might be able to grow stronger faster, but they'll be doing it from a lower starting point.

Who nose.

>>84525314
it depends what we consider as finales. I think Time of the Doctor is Moffat's best finale, but that was moreso a special – if you exclude that, for me, it's a toss-up between The Big Bang and The Doctor Falls, but The Big Bang is a more consistent episode than TDF. This finale has a lot of dangling threads unsatisfyingly resolved, a lot of the resolutions it does offer are not very satisfying, etc.

I forgot how fucking horrifying the concept of the Cyber scarecrows is. Jesus. It's the kind of shit you're just not ready for when you sit down to start an episode.

Don't Cremate Me and Pain Pain Pain both happened once you were getting into the swing of things with the mood of the show and really getting into the zone, but this just happens right off the fucking bat before you've even finished your cup of tea.

I almost thought they were a plothole (how did they get there) but obviously they were the first unsuccessful wave of Cybs coming to get the children

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Friendly reminder the outfit Bill wears at the end of The Doctor Falls matches the photos taken of Pearl on the set of the Christmas special.
Bill will be back in puddle form.

>>84525329
>The Cybermen do win this- eventually they find a way to spread around the universe and cause terror.
Not necessarily, the Doctor kind of implies that Cybermen also developed on Mondas independently. Which is weird considering the people on this ship just happen to also be from Mondas.

>>84525314
Better than Hell Bent and Death in Heaven for sure, leagues beyond Name and Wedding.

Doctor Falls made sense and was full of actually good and satisfying character arcs and endings, things of consequence happened, very little stupid shit. Paced very very well. A lot of wonderful moments whereas Death in Heaven literally had 0 great moments and Hell Bent only had like.. two or three tops, the other two finales before those only have one each tops if toy happened to enjoy them.

It wasn't perfect but it's easily the best of the last couple years.

>>84525377
>"not even finished your cup of tea"
>he doesn't have four thermal flasks filled with tea to ensure that it lasts the entire episode
What a filthy pleb.

>>84525368
>Time of the Doctor is Moffat's best finale
What? Why? Seriously why?

Doctor Falls > Hell Bent > Big Bang > Death in Heaven > Time of the Doctor > Name of the Doctor

>This finale has a lot of dangling threads unsatisfyingly resolved, a lot of the resolutions it does offer are not very satisfying, etc.
That was the whole point. It wasn't about winning. It was about doing something because it's right. We don't get to know what happens to the people int he ship, and that's okay.

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>>84524094
Are you trying to meme this into happening?

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>>84525391
Good point.

>>84525391
If the Master did want an army of Cybermen, it makes sense that he'd pick a ship from a culture that he knew would be capable of developing the technology.

>TARDIS exerts its personality and drops the Doctor where he needs to be to prove a point

I've missed this sort of thing, and the shot where it happens was gorgeous.

>tfw watching the two Masters killing themselves and laughing
Fucking glorious.

>>84525234
Why can't it be a bit of both those reasons

Also wow that really fits in with the "am I a good man" thing.
The Doctor may be good, but there are greater

>>84525498
I just think of it as a happy little accident.

The flashback of the Doctor reprogramming the Cybermen while hunched over the keyboard pretending to be knocked out makes me piss myself laughing desu.

>>84525522
>there are greater men than the Doctor and he knows it
Wilf and Perkins were definitely this to him.

>>84525416
I can see someone saying Time is best because of how well it sends Smith off, but my appreciation for it falls apart when it sets in that it ties his era together after the fact.

Hell Bent should come after Big Bang.

>>84525549
The way his hand just flails about was fucking hilarious and the the fact that both Masters fucking missed it

whatweretheythinking.png

>>84525549
This episode was so fucking great.

>>84525552
Time was also very fun, creative, emotionally weighty, and interesting things happened, most of the other finales or even specials feel very tedious unfortunately

>>84524547
Does this mean that the Doctor can remember Clala now?

So why the hell did Simm spend ten years pretending to be Liam Neeson?
It's not like he needed Bill's confidence to forcefully turn her into a cyberman.

>>84525606
No, if he does his brain will burn up :^)

>>84525057
It's all about the vault. Nardole always was there, when Doctor goes somewhere.

>>84524547
jacks was the moment he decided to travel with him so im okay with that. rest were weird

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>>84525624
For fun.

>>84525624
Wasn't he hiding from Mondassians whom he already duped? Or did I hear this wrong?

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>>84525549
>The high five
This was kino through and through

So where was the Master's TARDIS?

>>84525604
The best moment in Time was Clara helping The Doctor with his Christmas Cracker in the same way he did for her before

Actual pottery

>>84525624
Didn't he outright say he did it for the lols

Probably timed it with Missy and the Doctor arriving downstairs to ensure maximum dramatic effect honestly

>>84525653
Downstairs

>>84525653
I like to pretend the hospital was his TARDIS

>>84525672
I thought the room that he and Bill in was the TARDIS.

The Doctor Falls on a Pile of Shit

>>84525624
He was hiding from the Mondasians after losing his power, secretly pulling the strings from behind the scenes. The TARDIS crew showing up was just fortuitous.

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>>84525033

>>84525624
The Doctor's theory is that he took over the Mondasians but was overthrown so he took on a fake identity. And nobody contradicts him so maybe that's what happened idk.

To be honest, this episode really made me realize Simm isn't all that great an actor. He was staged up by virtually every single other person on screen.

>>84523536
>after thousands of years of evolution they never thought to put rocket boots on the original batch of cibbers
do you genuinely prefer this?

>>84525669
Yeah this is the guy who became Prime Minister and said "what the world needs now is a Doctor" right into the fucking camera on national television

The guy's bonkers and just does insane shit for fun

>>84525690
shh

>>84525686
Same here. The way the room was full of all this junk and vaguely techy stuff reminded me of The Doctor's TARDIS's Random Junk room that Clara stumbled onto

>>84525654
When did the doctor help Clara with a cracker?

I remember that Capaldi helps Clara with a cracker in the christmas special where she's really old in a dream, but I don't recall Smith ever helping her with a cracker.

>>84525709
Yes. They shoild always stay the same as it was in the 60s

>>84525693
>tfw the skullface flashed when he had his mouth open and the teeth didn't match his actual teeth
IMMERSION RUINED

>>84525156
>doomed to live a life with an unknown time of horrible death
Better to just blow up.

>>84525714
Also the fact that there was a television screen.
And it's not the first time that a TARDIS functioned as a room. In Shada, Chronotis' TARDIS acted as his room.

>>84525699
That's not the actor's fault in my opinion, it's just that character was literally on his own against the other characters who all disagreed with him and were being more pompous and righteous and made him seem lame. But the acting was top notch.

Now that the dust has settled,

What's the best Capaldi series?

http://www.strawpoll.me/13336358

>>84525725
>not original anon but I totally misremembered this and now I'm super uncomfortable

Maybe they meant Time improved Last Christmas because of the pottery it set up?

>>84525746
Series 8 is the one that didn't feel like it's deliberately written badly, as a joke, because Doctor Who is cheesy amirite? I doesn't mean that there were no bad stories, but they were geniune, even the bad ones.

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>>84525746
>any series with Kill the Moon and The Fots being the best any series
Only 9 and 10 are acceptable.

>>84525830
Fuck off. Kill the Moon and Forest are shit, but so are The Zygon Invasion/Inversion, Sleep no More, and the Monk trilogy.

>>84525746
8 was when they were still trying to figure out what 12 should be
9 had mostly resolved that and had the most characterkino
10 reduced the characterkino to go back to more standard action-driven fare, but there were still some characterkino moments spread out

S9 wins because characterkino

>>84525782
The thing about series 8 was that the bad episodes were just episodes that didn't stick very well, but they were genuine efforts like you say and were let down by a general weird tone throughout the series. In series 9 and 10, the worst episodes were the ones that felt like the writers thought they were amazing hot shit episodes and completely lacked the awareness to do them better or didn't care. Like, flawed from the beginning with shit structures and stuff, and then hyped up and carried like they're great but just pure shit very clearly. In series 8, every episode had a LOT of substance and worked well within themselves, just may have been unentertaining or stupid dialogue or something.

remember when 12 used to hate soldiers with a passion

>>84525709
Rocket boots aren't actually a very good means of travel so I don't know what the problem with this would be.

>>84525848
Only because he hated himself
but he kind of got over that

>>84525725
>>84525772
Yeah I got them the wrong way around

The best part of Last Christmas is the cracker

It was still really emotional in TOTD when it happened though

>>84525746
We need to think about that in terms of GOAT stories each series had.

>S8
Deep Breath, Into The Dalek, Listen, Mummy, Flatline, Dark Water

>S9
TWF, Under The Lake, Face The Raven, Heaven Sent

>S10
Oxygen, Extremis, Empress Of Mars, WE&T, TDF

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>Bill didn't get converted into this

>>84525858
>being able to fly
>not useful
anon...

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The Doctor Falls (2017)

>>84525877
>this will be next season's cybermen costume not that chibnall is in charge

>the doctor never points out the incest that resulted in all the people on the ship

For shame Moffat

>>84525890
That's clearly in the forest of the night.

Does anyone have a gaytiss meme?

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>>84525746
I'm gonna go with 9.
Danny is gone. Clara is still around. The Doctor ditches the short hair that didn't really suit him. It has the best episode in Doctor Who history imo (Heaven Sent). And the big speech in The Zygon Inversion about war was pretty great.

Spare Parts and The World Shapers are confirmed canon.

TV only plebs BTFO.

I'm just pissed we didn't get to see the master's tardis

>>84525848
Series 8: hates soldiers so fuckn much
Series 9 and 10: EVERY episode with soldiers invoked Twelve just following them around looking mildly constipated, letting them do literally whatever they wanted, tremendous time of each episode was wasted on him silently letting the soldiers run the plot, he always treated them with respect except occasionally calling a general stupid.

Really tarnished Twelve for me, if I'm being honest. I always think of these scenes as the absolute worst treatment of Twelve's character in his era, it's always so jarring and stupid.

>>84525848
Character development

>>84525848
the whole point of death in heaven was him coming to terms with that though

>>84525844
Inversion is great, and the first two parts of the Monk trilogy are good.

Sleep No More is the only weak episode of Series 9, while the rest of the Series is either pretty good or excellent. By far the most consistent Series.

Series 10 had more highs, but some more lows than 9 did.

Reminder that 8 also had Robot of Sherwood, which is only a small bit better than SNM. Also had the weakest finale of the three.

>>84525885
There's a reason nobody flies around on rocket boots in real life, anon. They're shit even compared to a jet pack, which is still shit.

>>84525936
S8 was the "am I a good man" arc, a large part of why he hated soldiers was because he considered himself one and he hated it

but then he got over it
You know what character development is don't you anon?

>>84525830
The entire series 9 and 10 were nothing but fots.

>>84525950
>the first two parts of the Monk trilogy are good
you did not seriously just fucking suggest the mess known as pyramid was good, did you?

Once again Moffat promised us something and then made something entirely different. I'm kinda annoyed that Two Masters were underused gimmick instead of the main threat.

>>84525936
Actually now that I think about it I'm pretty sure Peter Harkness or whatever his horrible name is was responsible for like all of those episodes/scenes, right? Didn't he do Pyramid and Zygons? Fuck him goddamn it what a shit shit writer why is he obsessed with soldiers and can't fucking write them properly

>>84525950
I loved series 9, but it's so dry. It has the least variety of any series as well.

>>84525950
>Inversion is great
No.
>the first two parts of the Monk trilogy are good
The first part is decent, the second part is garbage.
>Sleep No More is the only weak episode of Series 9
Far from it.
>Also had the weakest finale of the three.
It was better than Hell Bent any day.

>>84525936

Series 9 had the mummy episode where the Doctor comes to terms with his own history as a soldier and realizes that they're victims of war too.

>>84526010
that was series 8 and before all the solider stuff even really came to fruition

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>>84525915

>>84526008
Hell bent is a pleb filter
you failed

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>>84525992
Time to listen to this then.

>>84525988
Pyramid was good. Fucking most everyone here thought it was good when it aired. People only soured on it after Lie of the Land turned out to be fucking nothing. Pyramid felt almost like a return of the UNIT era- the kind of think Harness kept trying to write, and finally succeeded.

>>84525929
we did, it was his little room in the hospital probably

http://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1498984152952.webm

Series 9 was probably the best. I liked the idea of the girl who lived the most, but they should have done it so much different. It kind of stinks of Moffat now.

The only strong point with Serie 10 was that there was no Clara. But the SJW was really annoying. I think 10 was the worst.

Serie 8 was in between,It had some nice episodes, and the feeling of not having to sit through Smiths wacky and über-epic time altering tell and don't-show-adventure was so nice. The episodic nature of Capaldis era limited Moffats possibility to fuck up somewhat.

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>>84525915

>>84525997
He did Kill the Moon too. He's a fucking idiot that puts his political views into episodes where they're not justified and expresses them without any knowledge of his bias.
He's also just a plain shit writer who destroys characterization to move the plot forward and dumbs characters down to suit the plot rather than just make the fucking plot smarter.

>>84526030
I liked Extremis and Pyramid at the End of the World but I've gone right off them since I saw The Lie of the Land.

What a waste of a story.

>>84526008
>Hell Bent
>bad

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>>84526010
Series 8*

>>84526022
True, but 12 was pretty vehement about the stuff beforehand. Enough so that a scene like this quietly addressing it the way it did was gratifying.

>>84526030
>Fucking most everyone here thought it was good when it aired
Fuck off with this historical revisionism
We spent days pulling apart all of the fucking idiotic shit and illogical decisions of characters that made up that piece of shite

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[autistic screeching]

>>84526059
Yep, it is.

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>>84526051
>He's a fucking idiot that puts his political views into episodes where they're not justified and expresses them without any knowledge of his bias.
Yeah, thank god my favorite writers don't do that.

>>84526010
>>84525968
There's a big leap between learning to respect soldiers/hate soldiers less, and being a useless and passive non-presence that lets them do anything they want as if he doesn't constantly talk about how they're all idiots anyways. He just goes "don't do that......." and then stands there wasting precious screentime while they do whatever they want and then he leaves and does something unrelated. Or worse, randomly agrees to let them do what they want when normally he would never agree to their always stupid and ineffectual decisions

Looking back, the Doctor DID fall. He fucking lost. Missy didn't come back to help him and didn't turn good (he doesn't know she was going to so it's the same), Bill did die and he couldn't save her, he didn't stop the Cybermen at all and more will come to the floor Nardole is in and will fuck his shit up. And worse, he died and must regenerate.

How do you feel?

>>84526077
The people who hated it did that while everyone else though Harness wrote a good episode for a change. I was there too you know.

>>84526111
>while everyone else
the statistical minority

>>84526105
kino. true moffatkino

>>84526093
Too bad Oxygen was good. Politics is fine if you actually pull it off. Harness only writes pure shit.

>>84526093
Oxygen doesn't hide its bias though, and when it comes to the story and themes of the episode it's a lot more justified, and what's more it tells a good story on top of that. The episode is absolutely opposed to capitalism, which is a lot better than the crap Harness pulled in Kill the Moon making it seem like he wanted to fairly represent the different perspectives people had on abortion but ultimately just wanted to trick people into thinking that was the case and had a right and wrong answer all along.

>>84526105
depends entirely on how moff handles capaldi's actual last episode, and whether it undermines or utilizes that setup

>>84526126
Based on what statistic? I guarantee you the general feeling for it was positive when it was being discussed after it aired, not negative.

While the episode was being aired I've no idea. Opinions while an episode is airing are usually garbage/autistic.

Has Moffat written for the most Doctors out of any writer?

1, 4, 5, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12.

>>84526161
>4
debatable
don't forget war
otherwise you're right

>moff is the only writer in nuwho that's written a multi doctor story

>>84526105
Moffucked and begging for more

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>>84526146
>>84526152
Hey hey, I don't like Harness much either. My point is I don't really care if a writer has a political message in their story and it really isn't a fair criticism. The problem with Kill the Moon had zero to do with the implied anti-abortion message. It had to do with a complete abandon of what science fiction should be- at least in some tandem with actual science.

It still bothers me that Clara asked the world to vote by turning their lights on/off. Half the world doesn't get a vote, and how the hell do you control for the parts of the world with no goddamn lights? Or for the people who aren't home to turn the lights off? Fucking what even was that.

I guess it wasn't hard for Hackness to improve from there.

>>84526161
he wrote for all of them in TDOTD technically

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how do you go from

>I tried to talk. I want you to remember that. I tried to reach out. I tried to understand you, but I think that you understand us perfectly. And I think that you just don't care! And I don't know whether you're here to invade, infiltrate or just replace us. I don't suppose it really matters now. You are monsters! That is the role you seem determined to play, so it seems that I must play mine: the man that stops the monsters. I'm sending you back to your own dimension. Who knows? Some of you may even survive the trip. And if you do, remember this: You are not welcome here! This plane is protected! I am the Doctor, and I name you the Boneless!

to

>NOOOO!

>>84526206
What about Pompeii? :^)

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>>84526105
I feel like this whole story is the greatest expression of what the Doctor does.

None of this needed to happen. He brought himself and everyone there, got them all involved too. In the end he took it upon himself to try and defend the lives of people under the circumstance influenced by enemies he's familiar with.
He's an idiot who's slave to his wonder and gets himself into trouble. Ultimately he's driven by an absurd sense of duty. Truly a madman.

>>84526206

RTD wrote for two Tenth Doctors in Journey's End.

>>84526229
Fair

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>>84526084

>>84526229
>My point is I don't really care if a writer has a political message in their story and it really isn't a fair criticism.
I don't automatically dock points for having a political message. I take issue when the political message is forced in without good justification, and particularly with Harness' trying to hide his bias, despite still expressing it.

Cute little minisode I hadn't seen before, The Inforarium

https://youtu.be/1_UU_qWLvm4

Is it just me, or did The Doctor deleting himself from every database in the universe not really go anywhere? The Daleks forgot him in Asylum but that's about it. Was it relevant in The Snowmen?

>>84526240
That Flatline speech is not good.

>>84526259
>Was it relevant in The Snowmen?
The idea was that he tried to erase himself and then just went into hiding. Initially it was just "I got too big," but after the Ponds' departure he decided to take it a step further and just retreat to his cloud. Then Clara brings him out.

>>84526146
Oxygen wasn't good. I'm all for bashing capitalism once in a while, but due to lack of worldbuilding it's completely confused on what aspect of capitalism it is all about.

Also, continues the trend of non-entity side characters. Very lazy.

>>84526259
funny thing about deleting yourself from databases
that doesn't stop them from adding you back in

>>84526259
Yep. Great and new concept, interesting potential, promise buildup, completely dropped by Moff when he got bored of it/couldn't think of a payoff. one of many dropped threads by the moff.

>>84526284
How is not good, it's perfect. Shows the Doctor's innate compassion and open mind, and his resolve to do what he has to do to defend against evil forces. He's being reasonable and telling them "you did this to yourselves and now you're gonna eat it" and he's kinda being humble by saying it's just what his job is. Not the usual "IM SO COOL LOOK ME UP BASICALLY RUN"

>>84524448
better than a nigger

>>84526303
No that's because Matt left early.

>Is the whole future female?
>Oh I hope so

they're gonna do it arent they lads...

>>84526240
>"Winning? Is that what you think it's about? I'm not trying to win. I'm not doing this because I want to beat someone. Or 'cause I hate someone. Or because I want to blame someone. It's not because it's fun. God knows it's not because it's easy. It's not even because it works, because it hardly ever does. I do what I do because it's right. Because it's decent. And above all, it's kind. It's just that, just kind. If I run away today, good people will die. If I stand and fight, some of them might live. Maybe not many, maybe not for long. Hey, you know, maybe there's no point in any of this at all. But it's the best I can do. So I will do it, and I'm going to stand here doing it until it kills me. And you're going too, some day. How will that be, have you thought about it? What would you die for? Who I am is where I stand, and where I stand is where I fall. Stand with me."
Come the fuck on anon

>>84526286
Literally ignoring everything that actually happened in the episode, the horror and suspense and action and mystery and bill development and nardie and blinding and the very fair "can't kill us because it'll destroy your whole station" resolution. . . Just because "boohoo they portrayed fictional future space capitalism badly"

I pity you how do you enjoy anything

>>84526360
That plotline started at the end of Series 6.

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>>84526258
I don't think you can justify a political message very well into 45 minutes of children's television, but if that's the way you see it, then that's the way you see it.

I'd argue Oxygen didn't justify itself any better than Kill the Moon did.
>Why is abortion bad?
>Because this particular case of the moon creature deserving a chance at life
>Why is capitalism bad?
>Because this particular case of a company charging for something that would either be outlawed, or at least be completely out of business in favor of the suits that don't charge you for oxygen.

In both episodes, the topic at hand isn't the issue, it's just the particular case used as an argument to attack the whole subject. Harness can justifiably say that he didn't mean to make his episode about abortion since abortion was not literally the enemy, unlike in Oxygen.

I say all of this as someone who despises Kill the Moon and loves Oxygen. I'm just saying the argument that one of them justified it while the other didn't seems pretty thin. Harness isn't a hack because of politics, he's a hack because he can't write for shit.

NEW THREAD
>>84526376
>>84526376
>>84526376

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>>84526259
That's pretty damn cruel.

>>84524636
was clara a cuck?

>>84526303
>Eleven was the only Doctor being erased from history by Eleven
Don't think so

Could've easily extended past Matt. The whole concept of the Doctor being low profile and many of his enemies forgetting him a la Asylum has so much potential and very easy to write. It doesn't need to be an arc or tied to a character it's just a cool new status quo. A reset which Moffat usually loves. And then he dropped it super quickly, prettt sure last time it was mentioned was Angels in Manhattan and then he was apparently "recreated from the hope he left" by just about everyone it seems by TotD. Such a waste. All because Moff wants to abuse "doctor's reputation does his work for him"

>>84526251
I don't really think of the Doctor as someone usually driven by a sense of obligation to the universe. It fits some incarnations a lot better than others.

>>84526336
>Not the usual "IM SO COOL LOOK ME UP BASICALLY RUN"
It kind of is though because it's unnecessary. He could have just not said anything. It's not like they're going to talk back and they could pretty well get the message if he just got on with it, but instead he feels the need to make a big, grandiose speech about how he's the guy who stops the monsters and also give them a name so that the viewers at home know what to call them.

>>84526377
>speech was made for The Master
>episode ends with both Master and Missy dying for what they stand for, and killing the other for it as well

Fuck this was good

Quite a wild ride of a finale. Wish I'd managed to avoid more spoilers, but not coming here for a few weeks did spare me from quite a few. Are there many big spoilers for the Xmas special leaked, besides Bradley of course, and Pearl being onset ?

>>84525037
i like that and wish it happened more. starting fresh is awesome. 11 starting fresh and into a whole new story was great. doctors regenerating mid story is fucking shit. you have characters trying to get used to a different doctor and the chemistry gets all fucked up and theres shitty synergy and above all its harder for new people to get into the show if they logically go by doctors and the story of the new doctor just starts in the middle of the old one and they dont know what the fuck is going on.

i hope that for 13 they start fresh once again and dont bring up the past and just do a whole new fresh story with new companions

>>84526576
This is a good point. I think Clara and Ben and Polly may be the only cross-Doctor companions who had better chemistry with their second Doctor. I guess a lot of people would add Rose and Sarah Jane though. And Rose was a special case because it would have been pretty weird to replace the whole cast in only the second series.

>>84526029
Is it good?