/srg/ - Shadowrun General

>>55071390
I make my own by mixing and synthesizing a liquid form of betameth and soaking it into novacoke. I call it the "Blue Blitz."

>>55071390
recreational Kamikaze

where were you when you encountered your first megacorps?

https://youtu.be/h7H-_8UkmFU

Any advice for a 'Skill Monkey' build using Priority?

>>55071513
I'm always quite partial to the human edgemonkey build. 8 edge is very fun.

>when you're pink Mohawk, one is black Mohawk, two are pink trench coat, and the last member of the team is full on black trench coat

Out gm must cry himself to sleep trying to think of runs we would all like as a group

>>55071909
What's the difference between black Mohawk and pink trench coat?

>>55071974
Black Mohawk is doing Mohawk but without the style that Pink Mohawk gives. No identifying marks, not much if any evidence besides a ton of corpses. Recognition is failure. Think something like the heist from the film Ronin, a lot of action and dead motherfuckers, but nobody really knew who did it.

Pink trench-coat is doing all the trench-coat but with a massive amount of style involved. The Oceans film series are a great example for this.

>>55071974
It's not really a well defined term but i will try.

Pink trenchcoat: Exotic characters like shifters, punks etc that try their best to operate as silent as possible and leave no traces.

Black mowhawk: Think of matrix, a bunch of rather "generic" shadowrun characters like ex-soldiers, professional assasins and dwarv hackers that go in guns blazing with wild and elaborate plans.

>>55071513
Attributes A, Skills B, Metatype C (human/elf), Resources D. Start with Intuition 6 and Reaction 5, the Lightning Reflexes Quality, and then center your build around Face/Infiltrator stuff. Keep some Jazz handy, but you'll be able to participate in combat and be really solid in your actual primary role without any magic or implants.

>>55071390
>Drug Edition
>What drugs do you take?

None, you fragging degenerates.

>>55072333
But have you tried Blue Blitz though? It'll make you shit your pants if you do too much of it.

>>55071974
>>55072082
>>55072085
Someone should make a Shadowrun version of the political compass with the Black - Pink and Trenchcoat - Mohawk axis.
Then when people ask that chart can simply be linked.

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>>55072691

>>55070685
It happens in-universe, but everyone who knows how to/has the ability is already powerful via other means.
Also it's kind of dangerous. It involves you dying after all.

>>55072720
I'll take "Posters I'm glad stopped namefagging" for $500.

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>>55032147
That's a retarded Ship of Theseus, anon. Otherwise why can't I just enchant the screen of my deck (a pane of glass has a low OR) and have the whole thing be magic? Or just go around enchanting random river stones and duct-taping them to whatever I want?

The clear RAI is holistic. Blade, grip, whatever; they're all part of the sword, and the weapon focus is the sword.

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>>55034779
>Where would corps keep their most dangerous testing facilities?

Canonically, Antarctica is lousy with black sites. Lots and lots of space, no need for most people to go most places, and it's mostly still 'international' land. You can build a facility and no one will ever know, except possibly other black sites that pick up a t-bird soaring to places unknown, and the paranoid survivalists eating penguin meat.

>>55073382
Space is also good. Long lines of sight, no unscheduled traffic, no pesky mana screwing up your experiments, excellent quarantine...

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>>55073605
Until we get that space elevator going, it's hard to ship test subjects up.

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GMs, how do you guys remember all the rules for the game? It seems very difficult to remain 100% within the rules as a GM or even as a player without adlibbing a few things.

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>>55073677
Cheat sheets. Get the hayek sheets from the pastebin and put your screen to use. Make the players learn their own subsystems instead of expecting you to spoonfeed everything and double-check their math every time.

then make it up if you can't remember

>>55073677
>rules
rules are actually pretty easy
Roll (Attribute1+Skill+Modifiers)d6 or (Attribute1+Attribute2+Modifiers)d6, count how many dice are 5 or 6, if in 5e you limit this to the relevant Limit, and if you have more or equal than what you need then you succeed. Then count 1s and if more than half your dice are 1s you get a complication.
what's hard to remember are a) order of rules and b) modifiers.
For the first you have cheat sheets like >>55073723 said that tell you what to roll and when. For modifiers I simply have made a big picture in GIMP with all the tables copypasted onto it.

And generally it's fine to fudge rules. Just tell them to roll whatever seems fitting for that situation, make a rough guess how hard this is and decide based on the result.
Generally a dice pool gets on average a third in hits (so a pool of 15 dice usually gets 5 hits), a normal person rolls ~6 dice, an expert rolls ~12 dice and each +- 3 modified dice change the result by +-1

Also: Which edition?

>>55073723
>>55074201
Thanks for the responses. Edition is 5e, and I'm a very green GM and the only edition I've played as a player has been 4e, so I'm still reading the rulebook to make sure I have everything down.

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>>55074407
In that case:
In the OP Mediafire are the Hayek Sheets
PDF related is a flowchart for the 5e matrix
Chummer5 is in the OP. It's a godsend. One of the developers posts here as yekka

If you have questions, ask here. If you want advice to a character, print it to PDF (Either through Chummer's build in function or through a PDF printer) and post it here

>>55074469
Yeah, I've known about Chummer and my players are using that for their sheets, it's amazing. I have the Hayek Sheets too now, This makes things far easier to keep track of.

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>forever gm
>rest of the group too lazy and too bad at gming for me to switch
>want to get into shadowrun as a player after playing the games
>mfw

>>55073605
Do you think they'd make it to space before the horrors decide to fuck Earth up?

>>55074801
What's your favorite playstyle from the games? I personally love mystic adepts in them so I can heal myself just after the guy I'm punching shoots me with his shotgun. Cybered up gunslinging decker is a second-favorite.

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>>55074801

Shit, I just figured it out. The way I'm going to do a tutorial level if I ever run Shadowrun again. A fucking 80s montage. Do a series of brief scenes/vignettes representing the dozens of chump runs that the crew did before getting their first good one, each one introducing a new mechanic or major setting concept. By the end of it, the crew has a single real run worth of money and karma, and if they didn't know each other before they definitely have stories now.

>>55073676
>Until
It's been up for years, omae.

>>55075079
I like playing shamans usually but in Hong Kong i played a fully augmented punchy adept

Generally i like solving situations the talky way
>>55075094
>playing fallout homebrew
>things happen
>people go to place
>place offers them a tour
>i give tour
>afterwards they're just silent
??
>conflict happens
>one of three things happens
>1 they say some real 4th wall breaking stupid shit
>2 they shoot without saying anything
>3 they shoot and then realize they're outnumbered to run away and whine that stuff is too hard

>>55075166
I pity you. Have you ever tried being part of an online game?

>>55075236
Yea i think thats what im going to do
The worst part is i really put a lot of work into the fallout game and two out of the four players are just really boring. I have to engage them multiple times for them to speak up and when they do they don't do the most basic in character roleplaying

>>55071390
Is it a bad idea to use drugs for initiative boosts until I can save up the money for wired 2?

>>55075333
Depends on the rest of your build
there are successful builds that only use drugs for initiative but they take some Bioware and Geneware to reduce the damage from it

>>55075396
Let's I don't have any of that and have 7 dice to resist, how long could my character go before jazz completely ruined their life?

>>55075079
I have a hardon for bio/geneware street sams, but I finally bit the bullet and accepted that only mages do all the face/lore combination that I want. I wish CGL didn't hate 'ware so much.

>>55075455
If you don't use edge on the addiction test? 3 weeks for the spiral to burnout to begin.

>>55075455
If you only use it one week and then don't use it for 2 weeks you only have to meet a threshold of 1
If you use it for two consecutive weeks and then don't use it for a week then the threshold is 2
Both of these are manageable with a dice pool of 7. If you bump it to 8 you may be allowed to buy hits.
You do get a problem if you use it for three weeks straight, in which case you need to meet a threshold of 3, which you could only reliably make with edge.

Question: How much do you need for Wired 2? Do you already have Wired 1?

>>55075656
>How much do you need for Wired 2?
and just to clarify:
How much money do currently have?

>>55075656
>Do you already have wired 1?
Nah, I'm trying to make a decker/backup sammy and I don't have the nuyen to buy both the deck I want and some initiative boosters at chargen.
>>55075679
I'm still in chargen but I only have about 3k left.

>>55075714
>decker/backup sammy
chummer, that won't work. Both those archetypes are money sinks. Get yourself an Arm of God and put down suppressive fire if needed

>3k left
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Chummer, you should be happy just getting 50k together. Unless your GM pays like Monty Hall and/or lets you take and sell all enemy decks you will most likely never upgrade anything

>>55075493
As an adept I wish that too. I loved the dynamic Sam and adept had in 4e, felt like they both had pros and cons

Hey, chummers.

Looking to play a decker for the first time. What are some deadly noob-traps I should look out for when building one not to be a detriment to my team?

>>55075957
>Both those archetypes are money sinks
I'm not really concerned about upgrading myself with lots of ware, like I said it's a backup sammy, we already have a full samurai, I'm just interested in being halfway decent in a fight. Plus I've pretty much bought all the chrome I already want, the only exception being some form of initiative boost.

>>55076134
Get yourself Prescription Grade Jazz. It's double the price per dose, but lowers the Addiction Threshold by 1. That way, as long as you go a few weeks between using Jazz each time, you'll never even have to make the test.

Don't fuck around with that street-grade shit.

>>55076045
First noob trap is playing a decker. But you were smart enough not to be a technomancer, so at least there is hope.

Don't worry about getting the best deck possible. You only need 1 or 2 good array attributes if you have Quick Config or Perfect Time and switch when needed. Consider modding a commlink into a pseudo-deck and taking the money you saved and buying a Cyberarm of Death instead.
Don't underestimate the utility of having a couple of utility drones to give you flexibility. A spy drone for scouting/signal boost can save your arse. Same goes for a gundrone to watch over you when hotsimming.
BURST FIRE. FULL AUTO. Your bread and butter when not hatefucking the Matrix.
Grab a point in First Aid and a good medkit, you have the Logic to be a secondary medic for almost no cost.
Mnemonic Enhancer 3. Pump up those rookie knowledge numbers, a decker that does his legwork is a great team asset.

>>55076240
Thanks for the quick and concise run-down!

>>55076229
>Prescription Grade Jazz
Is that in chummer or should I just make a note of it?

>>55076319
>Is that in chummer
Unforunately not. You'll have to just buy double the normal amount of Jazz, make a note, and then delete half of it when you go to career mode.

The rules for it are in the drugs chapter of Chrome Flesh.

>>55076319
>>55076332
>>55076229
So, normally, Jazz is Addiction Threshold 3, and Addiction Rating 8. That means you only make an Addiction Test once every 3 weeks, so if you go the full three weeks following your use of Jazz, it hits 0 right before you make the test - meaning you have to use it a second time in that period to even make the test.

If it's prescription-grade, that gives you wiggle room. It drops the Addiction Threshold down to 2, which means you can use it a second time in the following week (for example, three days later, in Part 2 of the run you were already on) and still have it drop to 0 by the end of the three weeks.

Always get Prescription Grade for your combat drugs. It's just plain safer.

>>55076134
The Renraku Tsurugi is more than enough for Deckers until they hit prime status. It's cheap (ha) enough to to grab Wired Reflexes 2, or Synaptic Boosters 2 if you want to be full poverty mode except for two huge ticket items.

In most cases it'll be easier to start off with your initiative, and in career mode buy your muscle toners and cybereyes and cybercocks. It's a lot tougher in career mode to save up a full 130-200k nuyen than it is to save up chunks of 20 to 60k.

>>55076332
>>55076374
Got it, thanks omae!

>>55076374
>>55076413
One more thing. With Prescription Grade, that means it only takes 2 weeks of sobriety before you're safe to use again. Once your Threshold hits 0, the whole process gets reset to the beginning - you don't have to finish waiting out the 3.

So, if you're doing one run every 2 weeks (which is a little on the excessively frequent side, but if your GM doesn't pay a lot per-run it might be necessary), you're safe to keep using your Jazz for one fight per run.

An auto-injector and a biomonitor would really help you out there, though, as well as the Narco genemod and a Nephritic Screen, in that order, as soon as you can afford them.

>>55071390
>>55071390
So, I presume most people migrated to 5e.
What are your impressions of it?
I disliked the flavour reasons for everything becoming wireless, wireless bonuses (I think a particularly bad example was a telescopic rod opening faster if it had wireless enabled) and the overwatch stuff irked me.
But that was years ago, did additional books smooth things over? Did Karma gen come in and save the day? Did technology stop taking steps backwards?
Or should I continue being a old fogey and stick to 4e?

Thanks in advance for any info. Unfortunately I don't have the time I did in my younger days to read every book without reason

>>55076494
>Once your Threshold hits 0, the whole process gets reset to the beginning - you don't have to finish waiting out the 3.
I'm pretty sure it only resets after the three weeks, not just when the threshold reaches 0
So if you had something like Cram (Rating 4, Threshold 3) you need a test every 7 weeks after taking it. If you wait three weeks without taking it your threshold would reach 0 but you'd still have 4 weeks left. If you then don't take it for two weeks and then take it you have a threshold of 1 to make.

>>55076545
>But that was years ago, did additional books smooth things over?
not really
>Did Karma gen come in and save the day?
nope
>Did technology stop taking steps backwards?
Pffff, not a chance

>>55076612
>I'm pretty sure it only resets after the three weeks, not just when the threshold reaches 0
I'm pretty sure you're not right.

>The clock on this keeps ticking even if you skip a week, but every week you go without indulging reduces the Addiction Threshold by 1 (it returns to normal when you use again). If the threshold hits 0, you’re off the hook until you use the substance again.
>you're off the hook

But hey, that wording's just barely ambiguous enough that you should probably confirm one way or the other with your GM, just in case he's reading it the other way.

>>55076653
Why is CGL so bad at writing rules?

>>55076545
>So, I presume most people migrated to 5e.
Yes.

>What are your impressions of it?
It mostly plays better than 4e, and while it has some retarded content it's neither as common nor as terrible as 4e at its worst.

>I disliked the flavour reasons for everything becoming wireless, wireless bonuses (I think a particularly bad example was a telescopic rod opening faster if it had wireless enabled) and the overwatch stuff irked me.
It doesn't open faster, it just takes less physical actions on your part because you're telling it to open with a thought instead of pulling it open by hand. But aight, you do you, fampai.

>But that was years ago, did additional books smooth things over?
Smooth what things over? Additional books have included fewer and fewer wireless bonuses, if that's what you mean.

>Did Karma gen come in and save the day?
Karmagen has always been and will always be the worst form of chargen, because of how badly it punishes having high Attributes/Skills compared to investing directly in things like 'ware.

>Did technology stop taking steps backwards?
Yes. It hasn't taken any steps forward, but it stayed stationary after the first step back. It does, however, have Rigger 5.0, which has been a huge step in the right direction, especially compared to the garbage that was trying to be a Rigger in 4e.

>Or should I continue being a old fogey and stick to 4e?
Yeah, probably. It sounds like you're the type of person who's more looking to sling shit and stick to their oldies than actually try the new stuff out. You've clearly got biases, so if you try to get into 5e now, all you'll be doing is confirming your biases with anything you find and ignoring the good shit.

It sounds like you've already made up your mind on whether you like it based on some minor gripes from the very start of the edition without having even played it.

>>55076736
>Why is CGL so bad at writing rules?
Because they don't pay their freelancers and don't even have editors - especially right at the beginning of 5e, even if that's less true lately.

>>55076748

>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>55076757
We are at the point where even shitty /tg homebrewing is better than the drek CGL excreets from its syphilitic anus.

>>55071390
>What drugs do you take?
One of my players made drug grenades, although I don't think he realizes that one dose of zen, dispersed over a whole room isn't going to be nearly powerful enough to ruin anyone's day.

>>55076842
Eh, I dunno. They're really hit and miss. Some stuff is great, like Rigger 5.0, while other stuff is the Complete Trog.

>>55076901
Chemical grenades apply the entire effect of the drug to anyone in the radius. That's regardless of whether it's Pepper Punch, Kamikaze, or Zen.

Yes, you can use that to dose your entire crew with the effects of Kamikaze for the cost of only 1 dose.

That said, Zen only causes -2 Reaction and -1 to physical actions as a penalty. That's a good combat penalty, but it's not like it causes even Disorientation or Nausea. Most folks will be fine.

If he really wanted to ruin people's day, he'd get Novacoke Grenades. Aside from cocaine grenades being the most 80s bullshit ever, anyone on Jazz (like security guards) would suffer an immediate Overdose due to both drugs modifying Reaction.

>>55076901
>>55076956
>killing people with the power of cocaine
The greatest weapon known to man.

>>55075158
No, there's a mass driver at Kilimanjaro. The elevator was supposed to be built in South America, but the dragon civil war delayed it.

>>55076956
>double-barrelled grenade launcher
>two chemgrenades each loaded with different reagents
>guaranteed overdose

>>55077121
No, they were both completed.

>>55077163
Do those exist? I know there's the semi-auto GL for burst fire, but we don't have the ridiculous gun mod rules from 4e that let you built a holdout with assault cannon power.

>>55077192
The Panama Skyhook was delayed in Hazard Pay, and mentioned in Market Panic as one of the things S-K didn't do because Lofwyr was busy. Where does it say it's finished?

>>55077265
>gun mod rules from 4e that let you built a holdout with assault cannon power.
how?

>Consider this: orks breed faster than any other metahumans. We reach sexual maturity around age 10. Ork pregnancies last an average of just over six months, and women give birth to anywhere between four and eight children at a time (as a friend of mine once said, "any ork that doesn't have brothers and sisters wasn't born an ork"). The reason there aren't a lot more orks is because infant mortality is huge compared to that of humans, elves, and dwarves. Why? Simple: a lot of orks are either SINless or belong to low-income families. In addition to not being able to get proper medical care (even some mainstream hospitals haven't adapted to the idea that there are five different subraces of humanity now), they have to deal with poor living conditions. Those include exposure to toxic contaminants. Birth defects and miscarriages are up among ork populations every fragging year, and since an ork "generation" can be as short as 10-15 years (instead of 20-30 for humans) the genetic problems snowball much faster. Just another reason why people (read: humans) aren't so worried about pollution. After all, it's "only orks" who are suffering, right?
>Tuskadero
I like 3e's handling of ork problems a lot better than CGL's dumpster fire of a book.

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>>55077620

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>>55077381
>four and eight children
>eight children

>captcha: riverview riverside

>>55077732
I've got to assume that orks have both a much lower birth weight than normal humans, and that ork women are built... thicker.

>>55077381
>women give birth to anywhere between four and eight children at a time
I wonder what the rate of fraternal vs identical is, and how often there's mixed paternity.

>>55078157
>inb4 children of the trough

>captcha: road gemeinde("commune")
Yeah, captcha, that's what I meant

>>55078373
More "yo mamma such a slut y'all got eight dads."

>>55076956
>>55076966
There is a form of beauty in that idea, that i can not put into words.

>>55071390
Thanks to CGLs addiction rules and my autistic GM, none. I mean no form of possible addiction AT ALL, no VR, coffe, synthbeer, you name it.
Going by CGL's addiction rules anybody who takes ADHD medicamentation or had painkillers for a difficulty surgery would turn into a drug crazed fiend withing 2 to 3 months.

>>55078444
>Going by CGL's addiction rules anybody who takes ADHD medicamentation or had painkillers for a difficulty surgery would turn into a drug crazed fiend withing 2 to 3 months.
Only if you have truly terrible Willpower and Body/Logic. The mild stuff is so easy to no fail on that you can just buy 1 hit with 4 dice and be fine.

It's only the Addiction Threshold 2+ stuff that you start needing 8+ dice.

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Jazz, all the way.

OH SHIT I'M FEELING IT

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>>55078611

How do I convince the players to get into a strange car during the evacuation period of the run?
I need an excuse to get them locked in a car driven by a speed freak AI.

>>55078647
Why do you want them to be locked in there?

>>55078647
They're followed by lots of corporate security and always end up where the car is
Choice is to go in or to fight off a shitton of guys

>>55078692
because I extract great, great enjoyment from recreating crazy taxi.

>>55078718
How cautious are your players?
How will this affect them? Will it be a high action chase that ultimately leaves them better off (such as getting the chase off them)? Or will it be something that will affect them negatively, leaving them off worse than if they hadn't taken it?

Guys
should I make a frank-horrigan PC, or make a frank horrigan/enclave BBEG?

>>55078786
Porque no los dos? Have your PC have survived an experimental supersoldier program, and have the BBEGs be exactly said program.

>>55078736
the chase will be off of them.
Though, that sort of depends on how much they freak out.

>>55078647
You dont
"How do I force my players to do x" is the worst shit ever
The AI may exist in the world and the players may get into it.

>>55078647
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-2FkSlShqo

>>55078647
You make it an attractive option instead of a trap.

And you still leave them the choice of trying to get away without it.

>>55078718
Inserting references and stuff like that is alright. But you're trying to shoehorn the players into a situation they have no control over purely for your own pleasure.

As a forever GM take my advice and just don't. If the only person who gains anything from it is yourself and it does nothing to further any plot, character development or is in no way relevant to the mission, then don't force it upon the players.

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>>55074801

>Groups' Forever GM for D&D tries to DM Shadowrun
>Has no fucking idea what he's doing
>I take over despite my only GMing experience being fucking up D&D
>Games go okay and get better
>D&D Stops because of flaky players
>No other players want to GM Shadowrun because it's a clusterfuck of a system only I understand
>I am now stuck as the forever GM of the system I would rather be playing

iktfb

>>55078968
I feel you.
Rotating GMs should be the gold standard everybody adheres to

>>55079044
>Rotating GMs should be the gold standard everybody adheres to
Like, each new campaign has a new GM? Because a different GM for every run sounds fucking garbage.

>>55079124
Yea different campaigns different GM
Make those like 10 sessions long and things should be fine

>>55079139
>10 sessions
>campaigns
Uh.

>>55079370
I think he means breaking up campaigns into 10 session arcs, not doing a whole campaign in just ten sessions.

>>55076748
>Karmagen has always been and will always be the worst form of chargen, because of how badly it punishes having high Attributes/Skills compared to investing directly in things like 'ware.

So it's bad that people can buy a strength 6 cyberarm instead of putting time and effort (karma) into working out until they're strength 6?
Because I thought that was kinda the point of cyberware and a reason people got chromed. It's the fast-and-easy way

>>55079445
It's bad because it straight up punches you in the dick for even trying to have good meat scores in anything - and that's true for mental stats too. The way the costs for Attributes/Skills scale up, buy the Karma:Nuyen conversion rate remains flat, means Karmagen aggressively disincentivizes buying them past barely-average.

This is wildly compounded for non-Humans who have attributes that start higher than 1 too. It's grotesquely expensive to buy yourself up to even average Body/Strength as an Ork, for example.

It's the, bar none, worst-thought-out, worst-executed, just plain worst chargen option in both 4e and 5e.

Just absolutely terrible.

>>55079493
Was it any better in the older ones?

>>55079736
The older ones didn't do chargen/advancement quite the way 4e and 5e do.

Whats the best secondary form of combat (primary being magic) for a mage that doesnt want to kill people?

>>55079779
Wasn't there Good Karma-based character generation in Shadowrun Companion/SRC Revised?

>>55079811
Gel rounds.

>>55071390
>saw the "/tg/ mad about elvs" banner
>never been to /tg/ in 10 years
>see this thread
>read topic and try to comprehend
>wat am i reading?
>am i to high right now?

>>55079871
>wat am i reading?
Shadowrun
Where man meets magic and machine
Where the world is controlled by Megacorporations, nation states in themselves, that control everything on their turf.
Where magic came back, made people turn into Dwarves, Elves, Trolls and Orks, gave people the power to cast spells or strengthen their bodies to surpass mortal limits, shaped the world and brought back all kinds of magical critters.
Where technology forms a cornerstone of life. Augmentations can replace human tissue to restore lost abilities or even enhance them further. The internet was replaced by a full Virtual Reality world called the Matrix, where Deckers use computers to subvert the innate rules.
Where Vehicles can be controlled using pure mind power, steered better than simple controls would allow, but also move completely autonomously.

You play Shadowrunners, disposable assets in the Cold shadow wars of the corps.

Do you use grids, hexes, or theater of the mind for combat?

>>55080145
When I feature a battle complex enough to require a battle map, it's an online one whose movement has a built in ruler and movement isn't fixed to any kind of tiles.

Mostly it's simplistic enough that theater of the mind suffices, though.

>>55080145
Theatre of the mind, with maps for general placement (it's still useful to see how the rooms are in relation to each other and to have a general idea of how big the rooms are, but nothing where you'd say "I move from this tile to this other")

>>55072082
Somebody should make a two-axis diagram for this.

>>55079811
Taser, SnS, or Gel Rounds. Tasers are ultra legal so you can stuff a Defiance in your pants and not worry about legality or looking illegal, and it rivals heavy pistols for damage. You lose out on double tap, semi auto bursts, etc though.

>>55079370
Yeah? Those are campaigns. Don't tell me you think 30+ session extravaganzas are the norm. In most cases, you're lucky to make it past a oneshot.

>>55081423
I've yet to have a campaign end between the 3 session to 30 session mark.

>>55081431
Good for you. I've never had a campaign reach the 30 session mark.

>>55081442
In fact, I've never had a campaign actually end properly. It always just petered out by 10 sessions in.

Where the hell do I access Traditions in Chummer?

>>55081628
In the client?

>>55079811
Water for bricking electronics, industrial lube & restraints for immobilising enemies. Can't do much without a commlink or firearm.

>>55080190
What program, and how does it handle 3D enviroments? I really want to find a good one

>>55081298
Ill go the taser route. Ill pick up a Manhunter with Gel later i guess. Im starting with E Money so price is important

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>>55081628
Spells and Spirits tab.

It tends to be one or the other, in my experience. Either it dies from from complications, or people get invested enough that they don't want to let it go, which as a GM gives you time to set up a proper end.

>>55081442
>>55081474
Oh mine never end properly either, It's just that they die either instantly or die a year and a half in when everyone is really invested in it.
FeelsBadMan.jpg

>>55081474
I am bad at quoting >>55081727

>>55081697
>What program
Maptools.

>and how does it handle 3D enviroments?
The fuck? Terribly.

What is the best taser, looking for general stopping power/utility?

>>55081423
15 sessions is my average, counting out games that don't make it past Session 1. 15 sessions before schedules change, two weeks in a row get missed, and the game just gets dropped completely.

I assume that it's not a coincidence that it's also the approximate length of a semester.

>>55081763
You have the power, anon. If things start to look like the game might be faltering, you pull together the biggest threads and tie a knot in it. Better a slightly messy ending than none at all.

>>55081845
Which edition?

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>>55081839
One day, I will find a program that lets me have a shootout in a multistory lobby.

>>55081883
>One day, I will find a program that lets me have a shootout in a multistory lobby.
Not unless you code it yourself.

>>55081868
5th

>>55081959
Best taser in 5th is probably the Defiance EX Shocker. It basically doubles as a stun baton, is 100% legal, yadda yadda.

Barring that, grab a combat shotgun and slap stick-n-shock into it.

The Yamaha Pulsar was the best taser of 4e because of how staggeringly better SA was than SS in 4e, but with 5e only allowing you to attack once per IP anyway the higher damage becomes more important.

>>55081995
>5e only allowing you to attack once per IP anyway

???

>>55078640
HELL YEAH FUCK YEAH

>>55081845
Yamaha Pulsar. Not the best damage, but it's SA (allows SA pistol specialty) and the darts don't have wires that connect to the weapon.

Hey /tg,/ it is martial arts guy, the one who wrote the whole 6000 words thing?

How dead is SRG this time of night? I finally finished my next project and don't want to post it where no one will see it immediately because I am a neurotic spastic.

>>55084703
I'm alive.

>>55084703
I'm the Seven-7 anon, if that makes you feel better.

>>55084703
I always crave new Shadowrun writeups.

Alright. So I made a set of houserules trying to rebalance a few things. Not to really fundementally balance the game, so much as to pave over really blatant problems that made the game less fun, specifically radical archtype problems, like melee not feeling rewarding or mages blobbing out too hard.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BS29RpXycPDac6e-1MuDz5HXknSPTerL7392u1lm_SY/edit?usp=sharing

I plan to do more later in more depth doing things like reworking the matrix, but I just wanted to get 5.5.1 out to fix the really radical balance that just make certain PCs just less fun to think about because the fantasy of that type of PC doesn't work well.

Maybe its good, maybe it sucks, who knows. Hope you all enjoy it anyway!

>>55084760
I don't know what that is in reference to.

>>55084760
>>55084805
It's a reference to a guy whose character, named Dust, stock piled 200 Seven-7 grenades in various stashes across Seattle. It became something of a low-key legend (if that is the correct word) on here.

>>55084942
Oh. So infamous but plausible bioterrorist PC?

I always had a soft spot for SR PCs willing to stay true to their cyberpunk roots and do stuff other than fart around doing pay to heist crimes.

One of my best PCs I ever GMed for basically wanted to go full Archer Vice meets Lord of War and was willing to do anything it took to get ahead including turning a car into a missile using the party mage's movement and remotely controlling it to ram into and kill a low grade named horror.

>>55084703
>it is martial arts guy
>>55084760
>I'm the Seven-7 anon
Could be worse. You could have been memorialised for detailing how to fill cyber dongs with weapons.

>>55084805
I like what you did there. I'll see about making some custom rules for Chummer when I get home from holiday.
(I'm not Yekka, these will be files you drop into Chummer manually).

anyone got some good rigger character art?

Or just drones?

>>55085144
I steal a bunch of my drones from Infinity.

>>55071390
>never, ever cut drugs with dragon
Seriously, it is super expensive and helps nothing.

>>55082517
Regardless of whether you have a Semi-Auto or Single-Shot weapon, you can still make only one attack roll per initiative pass. In 4e, however, both of your Simple Actions could be dedicated to shooting someone twice with a Semi-Auto.

Since 5e doesn't allow SA to attack literally twice as often as SS anymore, it's no longer grotesquely suboptimal to use SS weapons.

>>55085205
That wasn't exactly how it worked in 4e, you could only attack twice with specific autofire spreads, and often boosting damage at least somewhat with a spread was more useful.

Also, in 5e it is fully possible to make multiple attack rolls. You can split your pool as a free action to attack different targets, and throwing also can be used against the same target if your at short or shorter range. That said it is extremely difficult to do this well and is best saved for fighting chumps, when using AOE attacks, or when ambushing.

>>55085044
I'm the dude that started the Street Sam code of honor argument. Even my group knows it.

Ok so I'm going to be a rigger in a upcoming game and the group has been tasked with protecting a asset in a building in one of the rougher parts of Shanghai.

I have some ideas on how I want to set up my drones to protect this asset but I do not know if the rules support it.

My plan is to have one drone loaded up with sensors and act as a eye-in-the-sky/AWACS for the other drones. Tagging, tracking hostiles and then feeding that data to the combat drones to provide bonuses on their attacks.

Is this possible?

>>55085222
>That wasn't exactly how it worked in 4e, you could only attack twice with specific autofire spreads, and often boosting damage at least somewhat with a spread was more useful.
No, in 4e, with Semi-Auto, you could attack 2 times per IP, using both of your Simple Actions. If your GM handled it differently, he was using sensible houserules.

>Also, in 5e it is fully possible to make multiple attack rolls. You can split your pool as a free action to attack different targets
I count that as just one attack roll being split. I'm talking about how 4e let you get literally twice as many full-sized attack rolls, and even against the same target both times. 5e, at best, lets you split an attack between two separate individuals, and even then they need to be within a certain distance of each other defined by your firing mode.

>>55085438
>My plan is to have one drone loaded up with sensors and act as a eye-in-the-sky/AWACS for the other drones. Tagging, tracking hostiles and then feeding that data to the combat drones to provide bonuses on their attacks.
>Is this possible?
Yes. What you do is you give them an incredible sensor suite for target acquisition - that's the obvious, basic part. Then it can throw down targeting AROs and such.

The way it actually provides a spotter bonus, though, is by giving it a Targeting autosoft and having it Assist the other drones with a Targeting roll.

So, you have a spotter drone, and several other flying drones equipped with Ares Desert Strikes, or whatever? You give the spotter drone Targeting (Ares Desert Strike) and then have it Assist the others' dice pools using its own. And, because it has a tricked-out sensor suite, it might be able to draw their attention to targets they hadn't noticed.

On top of that, it can provide targeting information for targets that the shooter-drones can't see. After all, it'll have radar and shit. If it relays that information to them, it can negate (some of) the blind-firing penalty, letting them nail the shit out of people through cover and barriers.

That's one of the old tricks for riggers - the classic is having your getaway car equipped with a suppressed sniper rifle, throwing down an AR tag on a target in person or with a scout drone, and shooting a sniper rifle with APDS at them from the parking lot through whatever's in the way.

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Can you build a magical lodge inside of a car?

>>55086127
>Magical lodges aren’t intended to be portable (although you can make a temporary one with reagents, p. 316).

>If you want to move your lodge, you’ll need a day to take it down, turning it back into magical lodge materials; then you can set it up again somewhere else.

>>55086181
I get that you'd have to link the materials to the lokal mana, but having the materials inside of a truck would let you skip the whole reassembling thing, right?

>>55086287
What if the mana flow of different areas requires different configurations of the lodge materials

>>55086287
You need a permanent space to set up a magical lodge. Doesn't matter that all the shit is in a van - if you don't keep it immobile, you break the lodge.

If it didn't work that way, you could create mobile mana barriers and break the game. Doubly so when you get Forbidden Arcana and Spiritual Lodge, which means you can create a Magical Lodge of up to [Magic*2 Force] just by meditating long enough without moving.

>>55086300
>>55086356
Alright, no mobile lodges. Must be a pain in the ass for nomadic shamans though.

>>55086300
Lets not grasp at straws for putting his idea down now, it seems fun and not really unbalanced if he can move it without having to reassemble it. The problem still lies in having to spend Force x Days to activate it again.

There is nothing stopping him from having a van as his lodge, he just can't ever move the van unless he wants to have to reactivate it again.

>>55086411
It's just a flavour reason to explain stuff

>>55086385
Even nomadic societies have specific locations that they routinely settle, however briefly. Trusted water sources, plentiful hunting grounds, trade routes, etc.
You could do the same for wherever you refuel, do repairs, etc.

You know, after a good 15 years of playing SR, I think I can finally confirm that the worst part of the game is definitely the fandom for it.
Not that there aren't great fans too, just that the bar heavily outweighs the good here in the final summation.

>>55086905
You say it like this is unique to shadowrun.

>>55086944
No, I say it like Shadowrun is a really, really bad example of it.
D&D has plenty of bad apples for example, but a lot of folks who play it (even actively) don't particularly feel strong enough to care emotionally about it one way or another. I'm guessing this is at least partially because it's so widespread the craziness is diluted somewhat amongst a large population.

Conversely SR is a niche game in a niche genre in a niche hobby, with complex rules that are often subject to change and EXTREMELY dense setting lore that is subject to retcons as well as contradictions and frequent arguements about what is and isn't canon without all parties always even being able to know simply due to how much setting info there is, all combined with an increasingly aging market for the game itself.
It's nothing inherent to the game itself at all mind you, it's just a lot of things happening at once that drive home exclusionary and reactive behavior towards many subject matters.

>>55087028
It's all Bull's fault.

>>55079994
sounds like a mixture of mirrors edge and shanaria. but thanks for the explanation

>>55087078
>shanaria
?

>>55087063
He's part of it, but not all of it.
There's a lot of coincidences and stuff not under his control that come into play to making the fanbase so toxic, though he actively encourages certain elements.

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>>55087063

Bull was a mistake

>>55087098
I think anon means Shanara, from Terry Brooks books. Anon probably has only seen the mtv tv show about it

>>55087521
>form factor
I have seriously no clue what anybody would gain by putting his commlink into a gun.
Clothes, everyday objects and even armor, very much so helmets and masks i get.
But why would anybody with two working braincells put two important pieces of equipment toghether so he or she can loose both at once ?

>>55087994
So you only have to conceal one thing in your anus at a time.

>>55087994
nahh, it's a commlink that looks like a gun
which is still Idiotic
>"no officer that's not my gun that's my phone"
>try to make a call and everyone calls the guards/pulls their gun on you
>a ganger threatens you, you pull out your gun, try to shoot and then realize that you've pulled your commlink when you trigger a voice call

>>55087994
The only one that remotely makes sense is the sniper rifle, but sniping isn't really that useful on most shadowruns.

Ultimate question:

Do you run your campaigns in pre or post Crash 2.0 and why?

>>55088203
current campaign is in 2068, so a few years post crash. Mostly so I can eventually introduce TMs and the whole craze about them

I can't find any traditions that use Shadow spirits, are there?
Failing that, are there rules to make your own traditions?

>>55088129
This is more 4e than 5e, buy I still say a Renraku Stormcloud with a sniper-rifle mounted on it is a great asset in the shittier parts of town. Bird's-eye view sniping.

>>55088397
>I can't find any traditions that use Shadow spirits, are there?
nope
>Failing that, are there rules to make your own traditions?
Yes, Street Grimoire should have them. You chose 5 spirits from the 10 available types (Fire, Water, Earth, Air, Man, Beast, Guardian, Task, Plant, Guidance), chose which spirits aid in which spell category (e.g. Task for Combat Spells, Fire for Health Spells, etc.), Choose a drain attribute from the three non-WIL mental attributes (INT, CHA, LOG) and then make some fluff around it.
And no, your tradition can't summon shadow spirits. Those are ritual-only

>>55088426
Oh yeah, but do you get benefits from a commlink on a sniper rifle you're not using personally?

A sniper rifle on a flying drone is fucking awesome.

>>55088495
That's actually a relief. I'm looking for ways to grans a player mage Energy Drain, but so far I can't see a way without becoming a blood mage.

This is just theory-crafting, not a playable character build.

>>55084805
Question
With these buffs to adepts why play street sam? Outside off tank build I don't really see a reason.
I can pump myself full of cyber at chargen and not move from there or be adept, grab harmonious defense and go crazy on magic and power points.

>>55089564
'Ware allows you to be significantly more versatile than adepts, like a lot more versatile.

An adept, even with these buffs, is still mostly locked into one area of the game, because their initiative+minimum stat investment is still going to be 2.75 PP, or about half their effectiveness. Then, when you factor in that if your optimizing and picking an adept your probably going to want to take one of the unique adept powers that helps you push past a samurai in dicepool, your looking at a 4.25 PP investment, leaving you a not very useful .25 PP to spend and then another 1.5 to get maybe like 3 extra dodge dice or something.

This may not even push you past a samurai's dicepool in some areas, and in many others its not a huge increase on what the samurai can do, but now you have acess to enough cheap, unique powers, along with stuff like HD and some initiations, to make playing a pure magic adept not a complete joke compared to playing a shoot and scoot samurai who sits at +4 to shoot from 'ware out the get go, bumps up to +6 potentially if they really care about that one skill so much to limb optimize, and then can fit so much extra crap into their 'ware that they also end up being a soak tank, face, star athlete, and ninja on top.

There is also the fact that SR doesn't value dicepool maximization that much, despite it being famous for how many dice you can roll. Rolling 20 dice to shoot isn't actually any worse in 99% of situations than rolling 24, and it probably isn't that much better than 18 either, because you are at that point probably hitting 100% of the time with your weapon for a 100% fatality rate vs most targets you will ever shoot at, and with higher or lower dice your expected shots to kill won't change. Your defensive pools (which adepts are pretty inefficient at getting) better determine how strong you are in a fight, and non-combat skill improvement makes you more useful than combat skill improvement past a certain point.

Where exactly are the Calling Ritual rules located? I could have sworn there was a way for mundanes to summon any spirit they wanted, but I can't find it anywhere.

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>>55071390
Deepweed is the best drug and none of you can argue that.

>>55091012
Street Grimoire.

>>55091058
Thanks. Obvious, really.

>>55088203
Game is in 2076.

Post crash 2.0 because that's where you can introduce a lot of matrix craziness, a lot of corps going over the top and overall just some grand-level insanity.

Also so I can enact my "AI takeover" from Keloid plans

>>55087028
>niche game

Its among the five most sold systems in Krautistan, probably either second or third place.

Is a sorcery-only (no spirits at all) particularly good? I ask for consideration towards one of my players, who's making a sorcery-focused dwarf mage. He's got mostly support spells with some of the bread and butter offensive stuff (powerbolt and shattershield, namely). I feel he may be wasting some points on his character, considering he's leveled up the sorcery skill group to 6, but I'm really not sure he's gonna be doing ritual spellcasting at all.

>>55091056
That's not betameth.

>>55091927
5e?

Generally a Sorcery-only character is viable, just as a Conjuration-only one is. They are just not as powerful as a combination but still fully viable.

>>55091799
That's why so many books are translated into german!

>>55091966
Okay, good. I'm just making sure he's not gonna just end up being a 3rd wheel healbot here. And yeah, 5e.

>>55092015
Can you post his character sheet?

>>55091927
Ritual spellcasting will allow him to summon any spirit he wants with the appropriate Calling ritual. That gives him some spirit ability.
With sufficient abuse of Ally Spirit ritual, Endowment, and Inhabitation, he can get everything else he's missing.

So no, only raising the Spellcasting group isn't a problem as long as he knows what he is doing.

>>55091957
>>55091056

both of you spelled kamikaze wrong.
If you get high and do bot fuck/murder everything in sight, you're doing it wrong.

>>55092282
I would just speedball dopadrine and K10.

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>>55092052
Sure.

>>55092088
I just saw that he has spirit pariah, so...

>>55091799
And because Germans love David Hasslehoff's music he must be a worldwide phenomena, right?
Germany LOVES SR and puts out the only decent 5e products at all, but just because Germany likes it doesn't make it huge in the US or anywhere else for that matter.

I for example know tons of folks in the gamer's subset who have heard of Shadowrun but relatively few who've actually played it themselves.

>>55092576
An entire country is not a niche.

>>55092495
Some things:
Agility at 2 may hinder him if he wants to do anything with melee, ranged weapons or touch attacks
Alchemy with 7 dice is pretty useless AFAIK
Astral Combat is rare
Tell him to put a point into Etiquette so that he can at least buy a hit
Automatics is usually better than Longarms because magicians usually should just use Suppressive Fire. But having a Shotgun with his pool is fine too.
Unarmed Combat with 5 dice is really bad
What's his native language? If you put no points in a language it is marked N for native language
8 Armor could be better
Spell selection looks good

Everything below contacts is junk, maybe print with an external PDF printer?

Hey. Awhile back I posted about playing an explorer character, and you guys recommended I grab another role, like face.

Well I built that character and now I'm wondering - could I just manifest at the johnson meet instead of attending physically? Between Assensing and Astral Bouncer I'm amazing at sizing up people, but I was wondering if using Astral Perception/Projection was a faux pa at a johnson meet. Run Faster says no magic, does Astral Projection count?

Also does everyone on the team have to turn up to the meet or can it be just me?

>>55092754
Got it, I'll bring it up with him. He was worrying about the concept of astral combat, but I wasn't really planning on having that much, if at all in this campaign. You're not missing anything below contacts, I think the PDF printer was just filling what was left on that page. And English is his native language, he's going full dorf stereotype with a Scottish accent.

>>55092944
Depends on the Johnson, the mission, your street cred and professionalism, the day of the week and the alignment of stars against the constellation of Virgo.

Essentially its usually bad form, but every Johnson has different standards and expectations. With high enough Ettiquette it won't matter though.

>>55092944
The way that I play it it's expected to arrive at the meet in flesh unless that is impossible due to the meet (such as a matrix meet) or due to the personage (e.g. an AI). So yes, materializing in front of the Johnson is impolite, but can potentially be played off as being security conscious. Since most Johnsons either can't astrally percieve or do the same to you it is not that important.

>Also does everyone on the team have to turn up to the meet or can it be just me?
Depends on the preferences of the Johnson. Some will only want to speak with the Face (to streamline negotiations), some will want to speak to the whole team (to preliminarily gauge them), some do not care. It also depends on who of your team wants to come with you. Generally: Everyone that can provide overwatch/research stuff about the Johnson should do so.

>>55093052
>And English is his native language, he's going full dorf stereotype with a Scottish accent.
As previously said, if you put no points into a skill it registers as Native

>>55093114
>>55093127
Cheers. I'm the face, so I've got ettiquette out the wazoo. Plus my character is paraplegic, so its just easier to astrally manifest to a place. I can't imagine a lot of places in a cyberpunk dystopia care about being accessibility

>>55092495
IF he never intends to summon anything I'm not sure spirit pariah is a valid negative quality as it only disadvantages your ability to summon spirits. Spirit bane would be justifiable though as the chosen spirit type will make a beeline to rip out their innards.

>>55088084
To complete the package you need a gun that looks like a phone.

>>55092591
It is if it's not in the Anglosphere.

>>55089768
you mean like the 4.25 points of essnece that the samurai have to take to be effective in combat(hello there wired reflexes,reaction enchancers and bone lacing)? Leaving him 1.75 essence to spend but he can't in fear off being called cyberpsychotic or simply to have something left when he decides to upgrade the cyber.
Meanwhile by the time the Sam have collected enough money to move from wired reflexes 2 to 3 the adept have initiated 20 times and is full of powers and metamagics.
Also if I read this correctly the technomancers are now better riggers than the riggers.
Mundanes go home

>>55081995
>>55084315

Alright, im getting some conflicting answers... sell me on what makes your choice better than the other guy, or fight to the death & ill follow the winner

>>55093557
Sams have to pay around, worst case scenario, 3.6 Ess to get the +2d6 initiative and +3 to agility that emulates what adepts are doing. That isn't ideal, but then every single point of essence after that is more efficient.

If they are a smart cookie, they only pay 1.6 essence for 2d6 initiative and +3 agility. Then they can get smartlink for 1.7 essence, meaning they now match the "minimum" adept investment of 3.5 PP to get the standard offensive combat package for an adept (assuming the spare .25 holds no value) 1.8 essence cheaper.

This means that, even before you factor in EVERY 'ware upgrade is cheaper than its equivalent in adept powers, adepts are paying more for their basic stuff. so this samurai could get +3 soak from muscle augmentations for more armor, +3 to all social rolls, a +1 bonus to sneaking and gymnastics, and another +1 to shooting from reflex recorders, and +3 more soak, all without spending more than 4 essence. That samurai has the equivalent of 14 PP of powers crammed into about 4 essence worth of space, cool resolve, mystic armor, Increase strength, increase agility, increased reflexes and increased ability.

Bone lacing isn't "required" to be combat effective, people just recommend it because its literally one of the most efficient sources of soak in the game, and the fact pure adepts are paying more than double per point of soak is a sign of how bad they are. Saying you "Must" buy bone lacing is like saying an adept "must" buy 4 ranks of mystic armor. It is a patently absurd statement, no PC is made or broken based on having +4 armor and if they were the MUNDANE would have the advantage because they are paying 1 essence for +4 armor and the adept is paying 4.

>>55093859
>>55093557
Don't forget to consider that fact that it's much cheaper, priority-wise, for an Adept to start with maximum Magic than for a Street Samurai to start with maximum money.

Nor the fact that it's super cheap/early for an Adept to start Initiating, compared to a Samurai buying upgrades.

There's serious logistical differences, in terms of what's being given up and how hard it is to advance.

>>55093835
Yamaha Pulsar uses SA specialisation, so if you use SA pistols already that means another 2 dice when determining net hits for damage, which brings their power up to that of the Defiance.
The Pulsar loses the melee ability, but Unarmed with Shock Gloves is probably better anyway.
Pulsar doesn't use darts connected to the gun via cord. That means the Pulsar doesn't get tangled, the lines can't be cut or accidentally shock the wrong person, or limit your mobility in any way.

>>55093835
You only get one attack per initiative pass. If they both dealt the same damage, you'd pick the SA one, but they don't. The EX Shocker has +2 damage on the Pulsar, which could easily be the difference between dealing 3 or 5 post-soak damage, or even the difference between 0 and 2 post-soak.

If this was 4e, where SA got double the number of attacks that SS got per IP, you'd pick the Pulsar every time.

But since this is 5e, the EX Shocker is just a better choice.

>>55094047
>Don't forget to consider that fact that it's much cheaper, priority-wise, for an Adept to start with maximum Magic than for a Street Samurai to start with maximum money.

Its not actually, because the samurai gets a free E slot. Basically being a mundane is +1 total priority, or more if your using sum to 10 which even more heavily favors a mundane in a hypothetical reality where burnout adepts don't exist or aren't crazy optimal.

Also remember that priority is simply a resource. You are spending priority to buy power, and even if the mundane may be down an attribute point or skill point (It is unlikely to be edge) they are coming out far ahead on out of the gate power, because so many of their dicepools are just going to be radically larger than the adepts even assuming the adept could invest their A slow efficiently.

Adepts buy upgrades for cheaper but they are in quite the hole coming out of gen. The goal was to raise the hole up without also raising burnout adepts up, so that being an adept out of gen was merely you being a bunch of effective PP out in terms of dicepools but maybe letting you effectively utilize something like elemental body.

Overall the inability to use extremely good and cheap attribute 'ware is a nerf to adepts, and many of the 'buffs' they got just let them start out like maybe 50 extra karma ahead which is relatively minor considering how crazy behind adepts are on 'ware.

Finally, while samurai can use both nuyen and karma to advance, adepts can only use karma. That doesn't mean a lot in a hypothetical infinite advancement scheme, but it means a lot in the real world where the samurai isn't just sitting waiting to be eclipsed and is capable of buying up a few skills to 10 in the time it takes an adept to get a few more PP, and it also extends the time where there is parity because the adept is depending more on tricks 'ware literally can't replicate rather than overpowering the mundane, which the fundamentally can't do.

>>55094136
>Adepts don't buy Qi Foci, Centering Foci, Weapon Foci, gear, and magical education to reduce Initiation costs as they advance
Adepts also have wildly bigger bang for their buck on Karma than Street Samurai do.

>>55094463
Qi foci are extremely expensive for each PP. Remember that the adept is very deep in the hole on PP, and is now paying 2 resources to even start catching up while the samurai is paying 2 resources to get ahead. They also have a very strict limit on how many foci they can use. Getting +2 to strength off a qi foci for melee, for example, runs you literally more foci points than you can have active out of the gate, and are 24 avail, 24000 nuyen (Or about 1/3rd the price of an upgrade to muscle toner) and 12 karma to bind. That isn't a bad deal, but its by no means something that allows rapid growth, especially because you need to advance magic twice to use it safely before hand, meaning two initiations at a minimum of a month each and 4 months of magic raising! Not to mention 104 karma! Gaining 6 PP is 100 karma down the way, in essence, even using initiations and qi foci, and the samurai is probably up on you more than 6 PP in powers, and 100 karma in probably also got an upgrade and quite a few skills!

Weapon foci are good, but are for melee exclusively, which has a lot of structural problems in core 5e. Again, this costs karma and nuyen, but its not as slow. But still, adepts being good at melee in certain ways (higher dicepools, lower soak) isn't bad! Its ok for them to be better than mundanes at something as long as it isn't "everything related to X"

Centering foci... don't exist for adepts!

Gear is not as dramatic an increase as 'ware, but mundanes can buy that too, so there is parity.

Magical education is, mechanically a small discount on the karma cost to initiate.

Yes, adepts get a bigger bang for their buck on karma. But, again, they are deep in the hole and samurai ARE able to gain a lot of power on karma through edge purchases and skills, and because its easy to have a street samurai able to soak 40 soak, dodge with 22 dice, and roll at least 15 dice in over 9 skills, it isn't like they are actually crying over their start state vs adepts.

>>55094136
>>55094626
>is capable of buying up a few skills to 10 in the time it takes an adept to get a few more PP
>ARE able to gain a lot of power on karma through edge purchases and skills
It costs 68 Karma to raise a skill from 6 to 10. An Adept can Initiate almost 5 times for that much karma. That's 5 PP for the cost of a Street Samurai's +4 to a skill.

It costs 55 Karma to bring Edge from 5 to 6 - or enough to Initiate 4 times and have points left over.

What the actual fuck are you talking about?

>Qi foci are extremely expensive for each PP.
12k nuyen per PP, and you can turn them off and on again situationally. For 12k nuyen and only 8 Karma, an Adept can have a Force 4 Qi Focus of Astral Perception or Enhanced Sense (Radar, Ultrasound, Thermographic, and Vision Magnification), for example. Or Commanding Voice. Or any other super-useful utility power that they'll want sometimes, but not all the time.

They can quickly achieve parity on the 'versatility' scale that way.

>Weapon foci are good
Not just good - incredible. A Force 6 Weapon Focus costs 18 Karma and 42k nuyen, and grants +6 to your main attack dice pool. For 18 Karma and 42k nuyen, a Street Samurai can only get Muscle Toner 1 and being Blades from 3 to 5.

Street Samurai have advantages and shortcomings. Adepts have advantages and shortcomings.

But I think you've never actually done the math to see where each of those lie before now.

>>55094626
A rule that many people don't know exists (and a lot of people that do know it don't use it because of bad mentors) is that somewhere hidden between the foci and alchemy chapters of Street Grimoire is a box telling you that you can attune a focus to your mentor spirit by using some or exclusively ingredients aligned with it in the foci creation, lowering binding karma cost by 1 or 2 respectively. For Qi Foci, which have pretty low binding costs, this is pretty big. It does, however, give your mentor spirit control over the focus, and they can turn it off or make it nonfunctional if they are upset. So unreliable or mischievous mentor spirits, or those that in most cases the adept will want to resist the forced compulsion of, oftentimes mean people prefer to not align their foci.

Another rule that often gets forgotten is about the Initiation cost reduction. Ordeal, okay, work it out with your GM. It also happens simultaneous to the actual initiation.
Schooling? 5 weeks seperate from the initiation and 10k Nuyen.

But the big one: The discount from an Initiatory group. The big deal here is that joining such a group requires a bonding ritual. Not only is this a real shitty super high force ritual unless you're a completely homogenous group, you're still gonna be subject to a bunch of nasty strictures but most importantly COMPLETING THE RITUAL COSTS 5 KARMA.

How much Karma does this 10% Discount save you on Initiations over having just 20%? Well.... 1 on Grade 1, 1 on Grade 2, 2 on Grade 3 and 2 on Grade 4.

Congratulations, after 4 initiations and delaying your first one by 5 Karma you have saved a Net of 1 Karma! How many grades of initiation do you usually get in your campaign?

>>55094791
>Force 4 Qi Focus Enhanced Sense (Radar, Ultrasound, Thermographic, and Vision Magnification)
Enhanced Sense isn't bought in ranks. Each is a seperate power, and as such a seperate focus. This would be 4 (four!) foci, meaning you've just bound 4 out of your 6 possible ones.

>A Force 6 Weapon Focus
Is 24R availability.

>>55094959
>Is 24R availability.
Ain't a problem post-chargen.

>>55094973
Then your GM is incredibly lax and you know one of the worlds most skilled talismongers.

Also
>and grants +6 to your main attack dice pool
Good luck using melee as your main attack against enemies appropriate for the resources you've access to.

>>55094791
Initiating 4 times takes at least 4 months, very possibly more due to arcana rolls. It is also important to note that 4 PP doesn't even start making up the shortfall you have, because even a kinda meh samurai can easily get 14 PP worth of powers.

> Or any other super-useful utility power that they'll want sometimes, but not all the time.

This is literally the worst use of qi foci for reasons >>55094959 posted. Also holy crap why are you buying themographic vision or ultrasound as a power, it is a couple 1000 to get really good vision enhancements on glasses, goggles, or a mask. There is no scenario where those powers are the right choice to take.

>Not just good - incredible. A Force 6 Weapon Focus costs 18 Karma and 42k nuyen, and grants +6 to your main attack dice pool. For 18 Karma and 42k nuyen, a Street Samurai can only get Muscle Toner 1 and being Blades from 3 to 5.

Weapon foci are melee only (and melee is in a rough spot) and more importantly 24 avail means that it is highly inconvenient to get. And, at the end of the day, nuking one dicepool up amazingly high has less value than getting a lot of dicepools up.

A well built samurai out of gen not only has more PP of powers than an adept in 'ware, but is able to spread them very efficiently over a wider range of activity. There is, even with qi foci, no efficient way for adepts to get defense and soak dice, the two most valuable combat dice. Adepts can't easily boost DV past +1, and have extremely expensive general boosts.

While, yes, an adept can go higher than a samurai, that was always a given. The point is adepts just being "Better samurai" which I think even you recognize is flatly not true. Samurai are going to have a broad range of good skills and will be able to continually invest in them, adepts are more specialized and have some unique powers, but that didn't shine through in core 5e both because adepts had some comically undertuned powers and 'ware was just too good not to take.

>>55095091
Also worth mentioning is that melee with a weapon is honestly not worthwhile against any sort of competent opponent.

Why? Because subdual is king in melee. He rolls subdue on you. Whoops, there goes your dice pool and +6 because this is all about unarmed and your phys limit and then you're stuck in subdual trying to work your way out with unarmed shit, while the guy is grilling you with his Shockweave and strength damage applications. Nice shiny focus you got there, chummer. Shouldn't have brought a weapon to a clinch fight.

>>55095091
>Initiating 4 times takes at least 4 months, very possibly more due to arcana rolls.
How long do you think it takes to buy up Attributes and Skills? Just buying a skill from 6 to 7 takes 7 straight weeks of training. Almost two months.

>>55095231
Buying skills is really, really, really bad unless you're almost max on all useful attributes and already have a specialization in the skill to be honest.

>>55095291
>attributes
Buying an Attribute from 4 to 5 costs 25 Karma (2 Initiations with all discounts) and takes 5 weeks (more than a month).

>>55095307
>2 Initiations with all discounts
See above in regards to "all discounts" costing more Karma and taking an extra 5 weeks just for the schooling.

And yeah, buying an attribute from 4 to 5 costs 25 Karma, but it raises several skills, potentially limits, condition modifiers and/or initiative. Rarely is raising a single skill by 1 point better.

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>mfw playing prototype transhuman mage
>mfw pain editor and reagents make it so I never suffer drain
>mfw quickened increased reflexes makes me always as fast as the street sam
>mfw I can mind control mooks to shoot each other
>mfw I can just turn any serious threat to goo and take my sweet time cutting them up
>mfw other mages just get btfo by my smg's suppressive fire

>>55096557
>prototype transhuman mage
disgusting

>>55096557
>quickened increased reflexes
How long's that actually last in practice, though? You're going to have that drop by 1 force every time you drive through even Background Count 1, and enemy mages are surely going to try to dispel it.

>>55087521
Reminder that this is why the trash that is Sleeping Tiger never goes out of fashion.

Do you remember to houserule fashion, /srg/?

So how are you supposed to handle initation as a GM? Doing a session (group or solo) for each initation seems tedious.

>>55096632
Metaplanar quest
Mages can bring along constructs that act similarly to the real ones. Just let them bring the "whole team" along

>>55096625
Quickened spells recover from BGC, meaning as long as it never goes away it doesn't matter.

Counterspelling an overcasted increase reflexes is not something any random mage can do, and it will usually knock out or kill people who try.

Quickening is bonkers.

>>55096632
You don't need to do a session to initiate. It can be handled as an arcana test to just "crunch the numbers" so to speak, ICly.

You can have initiation trials play out in game to give the PC a discount, but if you can't figure out an interesting one, don't bother.

That said its not hard to devise a story where everyone can easily take part yet the initiators are center stage, even working it into a normal job if you want.

>>55096632
It's mostly just a downtime activity, same as any other.

>>55096674
>Quickened spells recover from BGC, meaning as long as it never goes away it doesn't matter.
Can I get a citation on that?

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>>55096603
>butthurt mundanes

>>55096674
>Quickening is bonkers.
Yeah, I'm trying to come up with ways to limit its abuse. Like a limit to the number of spells mages can quicken, maybe MAG/2 rounded down or something.

>>55096557
>prototype transhuman
Disgusting. That's one of those Qualities that should be super rare, but every other character seems to have it.

>>55096734
It's unsalvageable, just remove it.

>>55096758
Do you mean the Quickening rules or 5E?

>>55096734
The way to limit its abuse is to require you to spend (Force) Karma per Quickening, then Karma on top of that for Counterspelling resistance.

Bare minimum.

>>55096761
Yes.

>>55096701
Page 32 of SG.

Combined with the fact that there isn't much of a reason to not do something like reagent limit or burn edge on quickened spells to make it so casting them at maximum force is perfectly safe means that quickened spells will almost certainly never go away in a PC's career because anyone who tries to dispell them will fail even before your allowed to toss in a few dice to the resist test if you really wanted to.

Even if hypothetically you faced a dragon tier caster every 10 runs who could dispell your spell safely, or you over 10 runs encountered like 50 suicidal mages willing to dedicate their lives to chipping 1 hit of your spell and who each had a 10% success rate because they were unusually strong, you could still just view a quickened spell as something like 1/10th a karma per run per spell to get near unlimited power. It is critical to remember consumable costs are easy to bear if over the course of your career buying the consumable repeatedly makes you much stronger than if you didn't and spent those resources on something else, which is why everyone uses APDS, S&S and Ex-Explosive bullets rather than all learning to use throwing knives they could recover.

>>55096734
If you don't ban it, strongly consider making it not usable on living creatures. Quickening distorts the value of sustained spells (which are the strongest form of augmentation in the game) heavily by making it effectively 1 karma for a super amazing piece of 'ware or adept power. A buff spell is the most powerful thing you can do to boost stats with the sole downside of sustaining.

>>55096744
Its fine that it isn't rare but its annoying that pain editors are so freakishly strong on mages. If pain editors didn't exist it would just be a neat fluff quality. Its important to remember that in 4e prototype transhumans by other names were not uncommon, you could accidently be a genetic prototype for example just because your parents worked at EVO and had geneware.

>>55071390
Current character is by all accounts a teetotaler. Doesn't like sodas because of all the sugar, hates soycaf because it's so bitter, doesn't touch alcohol. Drinks nothing but tea, juice and water.

In truth it's because she's only 17, on the run from her corporate family (has the Corporate SIN drawback) and doesn't want to test the integrity of her few fake ID's and accounts on something so stupid.

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>>55096718
GAS THE MAGES
FAB WAR NOW

>>55096785
I don't think I'll ban it, but I'm going to put some kind of gigantic downside onto it. Maybe (Force) karma to quicken, and then dumping in karma for dispel resistance on top of that, AND limiting the number of quickenings.

>>55096820
>AND limiting the number of quickenings
I don't know how many quickenings you think most mages actually have going, but it's usually only Increased Reflexes anyway, so that's not a real limitation.

>>55096839
I've got a player with too goddamn many.

>>55096820
You can't think of karma cost as a good limiter because its going to be very efficient to quicken spells up until karma cost gets prohibitive, because spells will nominally not go away for a long time once quickened.

You can do stuff to make quickening less party toxic, such as making it so that the mage can quicken for everybody at once on the cheap, make it so quickening naturally goes away by fading, and limit total force and hits of quickening, which make it less efficient still than sustaining a spell.

All these combined would make quickening less overly miserable for everyone involved because A: Quickening now encourages the mage to do good things for everyone and not just themselves (The 4e leader design of buffs, basically, you CAN'T hog it) B: Quickening now isn't just this permanent capabilities boost but something you chose to do for specific reasons and C: Now quickening doesn't let your mage go Super Sayan with 12 extra dodge dice, 6 extra soak dice, and 4d6+12 extra initiative with another 8 drain dice to boot.

That said self buffing loopholes to avoid a LOT of sustaining penalties are inherently unbalanced because buffs NEED to be strong enough to theoretically be worth casting on someone else while not so strong as to be a no brainer to walk around with all the time.

>>55096839
I mean I have seen sheets that had 20 quickened spells in my 4e days but that was when mage buffs were weaker. In 5e I sometimes get asked to help check sheets and stuff and its not uncommon to see drain stats quickened as well as combat sense.

If you just want to increase reflexes psyche makes it a -1 penalty which is trivial for any decently built mage to just ignore.

>>55096886
>If you just want to increase reflexes psyche makes it a -1 penalty which is trivial for any decently built mage to just ignore.
The point of Quickening Increased Reflexes is that you can Quicken a grotesquely-overcast one and then sleep it off.

>>55096930
Good point. It isn't a huge gain in my book but it is a gain!

Its just not uncommon to quicken 3 spells is all, basically Willpower, drainstat, and IR together alone make you freakishly strong compared to not doing so.

Have y'all made any good house rules for car crashes? Today a GMC bulldog peeled out of it's parking space, got shot in the tire and lost control, crashed into a wall, and put the driver into overflow boxes. Why does a crash at 20 mph max in an armored van deal 16P?

>>55097278
Vehicle crashes in RPGs are consistently hard to do well to any level of good simulation.

Still, a way you can do it is have crashes roll dice of a multiple of the vehicles current speed, add in extra automatic hits if the vehicle is open like a motorcycle or moped, and then allow people inside to soak the crash as normal (remembering that, even in current crash rules, the vehicle's armor adds to all passenger's soak). Maybe add in that if the thing the vehicle crashes into has lower structure than the vehicle's body the vehicle goes through and just needs to soak a bit of damage.

This would make it so who could survive a plane crash is semi-random, make it so crashes can vary in intensity, and make them scale to speed, a fender bender at most will just cause you to pull a muscle while a high speed crash on a motor bike would screw up a soak sam troll.

I don't know of any existing crash houserules though because its not a very big part of the system.

>>55096886
You could say that a quickened spell lasts for x days, where x is the amount of karma spent to sustain it. You could also say that people MUST spend one point of karma for each point of force for the spell, and disregard the whole "spend x extra points to get x extra defense dice".

>>55097761
>You could say that a quickened spell lasts for x days, where x is the amount of karma spent to sustain it.
That goes too far in the opposite direction. You want to make it less good, but still worth taking as a metamagic. That suggestion makes it literally worthless.

>>55097847
Why is it worthless? You get a big buff but it only lasts x days. So the rest of the run, but not forever. And it stops people from stacking permaspell after permaspell.

>>55097870
>You get a big buff but it only lasts x days.
Spending permanent karma for a temporary buff is the definition of a trap option. If getting a Sustaining Focus would be in literally every way better than Quickening, then Quickening has become worthless.

That's an Alchemy-tier bad idea.

>>55097870
While we're at it, let's go back to using Karma as Edge!

>>55097883
Its not for the same reason spending permanent nuyen on ammo isn't.

As long as its not super expensive, like a karma or two per run, it just makes sense because your going to be stronger for quickening than for whatever you buy by "saving" on quickening.

>>55097919
>using Karma as Edge!
That's not how the GK/Karma divide works.

>>55098030
1 karma per run on buffs is an order of magnitude bigger than 250 nuyen per run on ammo. What you're failing to account for is how precious Karma is.

>>55098030
Chummer, nobody would ever make that fucking trade. They'd pick the sustaining focus or just eat the sustaining penalty every time.

>>55098077
It is bigger, but so is the gain.

Put another way, people are willing to blow a couple thousand of nuyen, the equivalent of a karma or two, on spirits every run.

>>55098086
People already take quickening under the delusion it works this way.

>>55098030
Yeah, because 1 karma has the same value as a few hundred nuyen of ammo. Get better bait.

>>55098095
>implying that a Quickening that only lasts 3 days has even remotely the utility of a spirit with a dozen services owed
>implying that thousands of nuyen worth of services get spent in a single run

>>55097883
>>55097919
Exactly. It's supposed to suck. That's why no-one does it, why the sixth world isn't awash in quickenings. This way, players can't stack permaspells. It's supposed to make it an alchemy-tier bad idea.

>>55098169
>That's why no-one does it, why the sixth world isn't awash in quickenings.
The reason why the Sixth World isn't awash in Quickenings is because Initiation is wildly rarer among the Awakened population at large than it is among PCs.

The way to fix that is by making it less-good, not by making it outright terrible.

Anyone have Shadows in Focus : Metropole? Looking for more sources and data on Brazil turned 6th World.

>>55098192
>The way to fix that is by making it less-good, not by making it outright terrible.
Or you can give them runs pitting the team against mana barriers, etc. that will make perma-spells less attractive by situation.

>>55098902
Unless the mana barrier is so strong that its comical it won't break the spell.

If you constantly toss strong mana barriers around you may as well admit quickening just doesn't work.

And mana barriers can be pressed through safely anyway relatively easily.

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>>55081695
>Industrial lube and restraints
honk

>>55096785
Err, you still suffer drain with a Pain Editor, you simply don't suffer from any negative effects.
Until it flows over to your physical and you fill up your physical track.
Once you use up your Physical overflow you drop dead, even if you have a Pain Editor.

Granted that's still a HUGE benefit for mages, but you should still keep note of how much drain you are taking even if it won't have any effect until you suffer 20+ boxes on your condition monitor.

>>55099119
Man, stop reminding me I want to play bonkers the magical clown.
I have no shadowrun group, and even if I get one, no GM will let me play hum.

>>55099235
>no GM will let me play hum.
Trenchcoat was a mistake.

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tfw your d20 session was cancelled due to butthurt

>>55099260
What is that green thing meant to be?

>>55099295
It's that laughing elf from the meme, I think.

>>55099256
I wonder if I can TRICK the GM into me being a clown.

>>55099119
Don't forget the water spells. Knock prone, then a -2 dice penalty within 1/2 force metres for everything, including defence tests.

Are there any other Shadowrun storytimes that can compare with TwoDee's epic masterpiece?

>>55081695
>Water for bricking electronics
i thought everything is optical in sr5 :thinking:

Hey chummers. Working on a sammie/rigger and I've got half a point of essence left. Which is better - plastic bonelacing or two points of orthoskin?

>>55100407
What kind of -ware do you already have?

>>55100325
>core book
>technomancers: using mundane electronics
>gear section: electronics; commlinks, cyberdecks, etc.
>first story: headware and extensive control rig electronics
>skill groups: electronics (computer, hardware, software)

In short, Shadowrun dgaf.

>>55100422
Auto Injector, Hand of God, Wired Reflexes 2 (omegaware), Reaction enhancers 3 (omegaware), Cybereyes 1, Control Rig 1. I also have biocompatibility which is why I can cram so much tech in. If I took orthoskin I'd have to lose my jazz autoinjector to make it fit.

>>55100469
but optical electronics is still electronics

>>55100530
And brickable by water. Done yet?

>>55100577
>optical chips and electronics unafected by EMP
vs
>pure water made from mana that dissapears after spell hits target
no

>>55100608
>Also, any exposed and unsealed electronics may be damaged. For any such devices, make a Device Rating (3) Test; failure means water hit the sensitive innards of the device and bricked it (see Bricking, p. 228, SR5).
Yes.

>>55100608
Also, you're apparently confusing transferring data by optical means with being powered by optical means.

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>>55100615
>Device Rating (3) Test

>>55100745
Hmm?

>>55100758
So drones only have like 3 dice against threshold of 3?
IF yes good luck finding electronics without fully insulated innards

>>55100799
That's assuming vehicles aren't sealed for outdoor weather conditions.

>>55075048
The people in Earthdawn got in kaers before the Scourge, so probably

>>55100758
It means their extremely unlikely to succeed, which is fair enough to me, this is for if the seal has been breached, and if you get water into electrical devices, they stop working.
>>55100325
the light for the optical systems has to come from somewhere, very least there's an array of diodes somewhere generating the light needed, and a board of circuitry powering them

>>55098649
should be in the Mediafire

>>55101681
It wasn't last time I checked. Did it just get added?

Wait hold on what the fuck happened to Iceland in Shadowrun?

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>>55102230
Economic collapse due to a reduction in fishing yields and the Crash of 2029. Later absorbed into the Trans-Polar Aleut as a protectorate to pay off its debts.

>>55101681
>>55101993
I think that's one of the ones that never got sent my way - if anyone's got it, a link would be appreciated.

>>55102437
If I was confident in my ability to find and remove hidden watermarks I would but, well, you know how it is.

What's the mafia's attitude on non-humans and the Awakened?

>>55103035
As far as I know, both the Russian vory and Italian mafia care more about your ethnic roots than your metatype.

Is there a Grecco-Roman mythology-type magical tradition? You've got one ork, one elf, and two troll metavariants for those Mediterranean regions, but as far as I know no actual magical tradition.

>>55103071
>Italian mafia
The Mafia in Shadowrun is an alliance of Italian, Irish, Jewish, Caribbean, and so forth organized crime families, not just the Italian Cosa Nostra. The individual families are still mono-ethnic, but the organization as a whole is multi-faceted.

>Russian vory
The Vory have similarly gone multi-ethnic, but instead of forming alliances like the Mafia, they use intimidation and terror tactics to forcibly absorb smaller criminal outfits, while continuing the prison-based recruitment of proper Vors.

New thread topic?

>>55103534
Fuck, marry, kill dragon edition.

>>55103534
Organized crime.

>>55103103

>Is there a Grecco-Roman mythology-type magical tradition? You've got one ork, one elf, and two troll metavariants for those Mediterranean regions, but as far as I know no actual magical tradition.

It's in Forbidden Arcana. The description filled me with professional rage as a classicist, but then I got over it when I realized it is a decent approximation of pop-culture Greece. So bear in mind that if you want characters who follow something historically reasonably, you're gonna have to refluff.

Anyone got some decent art for riggers or know where to find some?

NEW THREAD
>>55103857
>>55103857