/5eg/ - D&D Fifth Edition General

>>54938267
Gnome wizard tried to claim the belt of giant strength that was clearly meant for the fighter

What's a good level spread for an arcane trickster that wants to contribute out of combat with spell utility? I was thinking rogue 14/wizard 6

>>54938267

The bard (a tiefling whose player was prone to acting out when bored) temper tantrum'd at not getting ALL the treasure because they were the bard and kicked out the quarterstaff that was keeping a collapsing ceiling trap from going off.

We kicked that player and rolled new characters.

>>54938267
Two characters went off to be alone on the other side of town and Strahd showed up. It ended up in a chase through the streets and a dimension door into the church in vallaki.

Unrelated to thread question, but looking at running party through sunless citadel and using that to translation into curse of strahd.

What do people think about that? Is there other modules that translation smoothly? I know LMoP and CoS are viewed to be some of the best modules and I would love to take advantage of transitionary points.

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>>54938320
>Planning a level 20 character when you probably won't make it past level 10 without changing characters or the game falling apart.

there's a warlock in my party who uses spells and actions other than eldritch blast when we're in combat. he's clearly the weakest link byt refuses to just use eldritch blast, even when we're getting whomped ans need that reliable DPR. what can i do to convince him to stop being such a detriment and accept his role?

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Summarized list of everything they originally did wrong in 5e
>Eldritch Blast
>Warlocks as Cha instead of Int
>Rangers
>Feats
>PHB very poorly structured
>Over-use of Wis, Cha, Dex skills and saves. Underuse of Int.
>B/S/P weapons mean next to nothing
>Sorcerers underdeveloped
>Almost no content was developed for DMs for proper Exploration/Social interaction material.

Why would a group of werewolves exile one if their members?

>>54938348
Maybe something to do with the gultias tree

>>54938306
No point in going valor if you're using GFB/BB.
But yes, you can cast the cantrips at will.

>>54938389
He wasn't cool enough to roll with the cool wolves

>>54938388
>t.Wizard

>>54938391
That's what I was thinking. Deal with tree, and mists rise.

I feel a bit weird or starting with death house though.

>>54938388
What's wrong with feats?

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>>54938388
You forgot the part where a level 5 wizard can solve every non-combat problem in the game with a spell and do it better than a non-caster with heavy investment in the relevant skills.

>>54938420
There are a couple of combat feats every class needs (warcaster for casters, great weapon master or polearm master for martials, crossbow expert for rogues or ranged characters, ect) to function a competitive level, and then the remainder of "flavorful" feats are almost never worth giving up an ASI for, let alone ever prioritizing over the "essential" feats.

>>54938426
Once per day. How do people not understand the value of resourceless utility?

>>54938369
Just let me dream

>>54938388
The long-rest/short-rest system was pretty retarded too, since any time the party stops for an hour they may as well stop for 8, unless there's some pressing time limit hanging over their heads.

>>54938451
Once per day... at level 5, and then many many many more times than that with every level afterwards. More times than you'll ever be faced with non-combat challenges in a day.
Also per-day is wrong because a long rest is only 8 hours.

>>54938267
The party managed to trigger every single trap in a dungeon that animated hostile statues, nearly all at once, in a situation where they got themselves split up. The party didn't deal with it as much as I decided a TPK wasn't worth it right there and did a few on the fly stat block changes in the party's favor.

>>54938389
Google "Omega Wolf"

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>>54938388
How to turn 5e into perfect product:

>Warlocks(Revised) needs happening
>Ranger(Revised) already happen
>Both PHB and UA feats put into a giant pile and sorted out between broke/intrusive feats (GWM, Grappler, Lucky) and good feats (Heavily Armored, Athlete)
>PHB re-released as 'PHB redone' with streamlined organization, paired with 5eTools style digital tool with printable character generator
>New Int-based skill rules included as core rules; ex: Int based downtime skillchecks
>Minor mechanical knobs added to B/S/P weapons by default
>Sorcerer UAs published
>Formal creation of exploration/social interaction 'encounters' to assist DMs in constructing fluid non-combat encounter segments

Pretty ez tbqh

>>54938476
You can only long rest once a day.

>>54938476
"A character can't benefit from more than one long rest in a 24-hour period" -PHB p. 186
You said a wizard can solve anything at level 5, and I corrected that he can only do so once per day. You're moving the goalposts.

How are 5e's hand to hand options vs. 3.5? Still just monks all the way down?

>>54938476
Long-rest / Short-rest system works
in fact almost the entire PHB works
if your game is straight dungeon crawl, where short-rest / long-rest each have a proportionally weighted chance at random encounter. Sequential room-clearing by a party of dungeon hobos.

Getting proper short-rest/long-rest balance makes a huge impact on the resource system and overall balance and outside of that specific scenario it asks a lot of creativity from the DM to come up with time limits. Is counter-intuitive to their 5e design philosophy of streamlining things for the DM.

The first step is to limit 1 long rest per 24 hours. No 8 and 8 and 8. Everything can be DM rule zeroed but it should have been in the text to start with.

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>>54938267
>Halfling bard picked up a diadem
>hidden behind a false wall
>resting upon a stone pedestal
>at the end of the dungeon
>puts it on her head because pretty
>nearly gets mindraped, but remembers advantage on fright saves
>1 HP left

>>54938571
Monks and Tavern Brawler are all you get RAW, and only one of those two things is viable. Otherwise you'd need some homebrew

>>54938571
what else would there be? there's really no other way to fight hand to hand other than grappley martial arts.

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>>54938388
shitty capstones everywhere

when it came to 9th level spells (and some 7th-8th level spells) they went nuts but didn't apply the same philosophy to the high level class features of non-full-casters. there are some features you get at high levels that wouldn't look out of place if you were getting them at level 5.

>>54938608
I mean, monks have the eastern mysticism component. A pure martial that just punches really fucking hard would be neat.

>>54938388
>classes are so frontloaded and capstones are so bad that there's barely any reason to not dip into another class

>>54938629
Yeah but they've only got two hands to break. Just fluff it to whatever you want and monks are all the things.

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Guys i need help, i'm holding my first D&D session and i'm DMing for the first time in real life and only done it once before on discord. I got a good sense of the rules and such.

Any like really basic tips of things i should know before and prepare?

Has anyone ever used the martial dice feature from the martal options pdf? https://archive.4plebs.org/dl/tg/image/1435/96/1435961027148.pdf

I wanted to make martial characters more interesting, so I was considering giving them access to that, then adding in a few more weapons and possibly giving them access to a free weapon feat Possibly "balanced". Would that seriously unbalance anything?
I also wanted to give casters spell points but I'm not sure if that would be too much either

>>54938389
He had a foul mouth.

>>54938497
Alpha/beta/omega wolves don't actually exist, anon.

>>54938571
It's not quite hand-to-hand but a Tavern Brawler Brawny Bear Barbarian Bugbear (though I prefer Goliath, but it doesnt start with B) can chew the environment like a fucking bulldozer and weaponize pieces of rubble (and enemies) weighing up to 1 ton without needing a check.

>>54938592
>The first step is to limit 1 long rest per 24 hours
That's already in the PHB, Anon.
The REAL first step is to implement at least one actually short rest per day. I propose something like the Numenera system.
1st short rest is 5 minutes
2nd short rest is 30 minutes/an hour
I just don't see groups actually taking 2 hour-long rests in a single day - safely - and still accomplishing much.

>>54938629
You need either homebrew (and mostly it's not great) or refluffing, which is the name of the game in 5e. Explain the ki mechanics using something else and you're good to go.

>>54938508
>>54938388
Exploration just requires the DM to prepare or improvise an area to explore. Social interaction just requires the DM to prepare or improvise some characters to talk to. That's all that you need and all you should want. Those two parts of roleplaying are only hindered by rules and mechanics.

>>54938388
>bad artwork

>>54938320
Just take all rogue levels. You'll have enough spells with just that, and Rogue levels are better than Wizard levels for damage and abilities.

>>54938629
If you/your GM are okay with homebrew, this document has a couple of non-monk unarmed options. http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/BkYF7N05E-

>>54938675
I've always been curious about this PDF. Has anyone actually played with it?

>>54938629
Without the mystical self-imposed taboos, there's absolutely no reason why a strong character wouldn't use a weapon.

>>54938679
It's not about what exists, it's about what's plausible enough for a decent story

>>54938743
Even monks traditionally use weapons, and 5e doesn't disincentivize this like 3.PF does.
And I don't just mean simple peasant weapons either, depending on how you define "monk." The character archetype is widely used in martial arts movies that are full of swords and glaives.

>>54938715
Compared to what?
Compared to any edition since 3.0, including PF, 5E artwork is a HUGE leap forward (while admitedly still being far from perfect).

I bet you like Wayne Gaynolds, pleb.

>>54938592
Short rest mechanics were a mistake

>>54938830
Still better than per-encounter which they are trying to desperately escape.

>>54938320
No more than 2 levels of Spell singer.

And reckon there's little real incentive for you to take the second level before you do Rogue 10

>>54938830
t. jealous wizard fag

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>>54938802
>Compared to any edition since 3.0

so it's good if you ignore all the good stuff?

>>54938571
Still just monks all the way down.

>>54938420
>>54938449
Right. Feats are in a couple of different categories.

Some feats are completely broken noobtraps, such as Grappler. Grappler originally printed in the PHB comes with 3 blips, 2 of which do nothing (or almost nothing), and the third blip can be recreated through normal mechanical rules.

Some feats are just extremely superfluous and empty, such as Keen mind.

Some feats completely destroy the careful math of the system with ludicrous bonuses, such as Great Weapon Mastery, which will reach doubled DPR values. To remain competitive, these feats become mandatory.

Some feats are obnoxiously intrusive to the otherwise snappy action resolution provided by 5e. Lucky is a good example.

Finally, some feats are actually situationally equivalent to a standard ASI and make for good fun and increased options for the player.

>>54938695
>The REAL first step is to implement at least one actually short rest per day. I propose something like the Numenera system.
>1st short rest is 5 minutes
>2nd short rest is 30 minutes/an hour
>I just don't see groups actually taking 2 hour-long rests in a single day - safely - and still accomplishing much.

I just stole this. This is a great compromise with the current system. Simple and I can make it very effective, and it naturally encourages/discourages the players too.

>>54938802
Compared to Magic the gathering which Hasbro also owns and has access to.
Seriously the PHB art is indefensible.

>>54938863
>t. jealous wizard fag
On the contrary, I think the game would be more balanced if it was balanced only around daily resources.

You certainly wound't see comments about classes being useless because of lack of rests

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>>54938802
this doesn't look so great

>>54938715
The artwork in invaluable to making 5e as playable as it is.

While there's a lot of lovingly rendered art in 5e, none of it is "sexy." The people tend toward having plain faces, or else faces stylized in a non-sexy way, like that halfling that people are always complaining about. It sends a message that this is not a game about sex. There will be no deliberate fetish material, and the published adventures will have no instructions on how to romance the NPCs. If someone has some kind of romantic bond, it will be a source of loss or growth or some other kind of striving instead of being titillating, and anything physical will just fade to black.

In short, 5e's art keeps the Pathfinderfags away.

>>54939005
I think its meant to be retarded and progressive because they put a retard in the book

>>54938639
>>54938610
Absolutely agree. Could you effectively redistribute the power through the levels and create proper capstones?

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>>54938802
>Compared to any edition since 3.0
4e had some good stuff

>>54939028
My criticism has nothing to do with "sex", it's the bad quality of the art.

>>54938389
Same reasons why any other humanoid group would exile one of their members: pissing of "the man"

>>54939028
but pathfinder's art looks like shit too

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>>54939028
>>54939048
On the other hand the artwork in the MM is somewhere between plain to excellent.

>>54939005
This is objectively terrible, but I can't put my finger on why.

> head fucking huge
> legs tiny
> "her" right boob is defying gravity and you can see a puffy nipple under the cloth
> penciled on eyebrows
> annoying hair
> her right leg looks like it's about 10 feet back from where it should be

I get those, but there's still something horrible and uncomfortable with this picture

>>54939162
Giant heads are probly to get away from child-races. Kids don't have heads that big.

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>>54938675
Bumping.

>>54939074
You're an idiot who probably wants it to look more like anime.

>>54939236
That halfling is exactly what anime looks like.

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>>54939236
I want more art like this

>>54939273
Muscle wizard

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>>54939028
There are other halflings which don't look "sexy" but the artwork doesn't look "bad" either.

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I also despise the choice of artwork for the PHB. This is supposed to be the one book that everyone buys, it's going to be look at constantly and will be sitting around the table often within view. So the cover should reinforce the theme of the game from the player's standpoint, this is your book which has all your character creation options and rules. So they should have picked artwork showing a team of diverse adventurers.

But instead it's sitting around the table out of the corner of your eye subconsciously being the "Red Giant" book (or the "dog" book if it's fliped over). Really blew it.

At least the Dungeon master book nailed it with the creepy lich, but the PHB cover is a huge flop.

>>54938393
Well shit there goes that idea, i was a bit confused as to why you'd extra attack when you have BB or GFB. I guess i could always try 1 fighter/ lore bard x.

>>54939301
Good art of a smug ugly bastard.

>>54939301
See this looks okay, the size of the head just looks super awkward.

I get that's intentional but looking like a poorly proportioned human automatically looks bad. Probably something to do with how we're so good at recognising the human form it falls into uncanny valley territory, despite the fact it was the artist's intention and the actual art isn't "bad".

>>54939005
Literally anime proportions

>>54939273
Chad Thunderwand
Conjurer Extraordinaire

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>>54939306
I agree with that. It's odd because Volo's and Xanathar's both have great covers.

>>54939437
I just can't get immersed with the normal books, the covers just don't look very booky to me

What races aren't allowed at your table? I don't allow dragonborn or drow

>it's a "player doesn't know how to calculate passive perception" episode

No retard, you don't get to have 19 passive perception.

>>54939461
Why not anon, dragonborn are beefy

>>54939437
>A beholder eye cancels out magic
>Beholder staring at the fish

What did they mean by this?

>>54939480
>10 + proficiency + wisdom + perception bonus
Why 19 such a problem, it's pretty resonable

>rogue wants to multiclass into paladin
>the rogue's main stats are dex and cha
>dumped str, as most rogues do
>lacks the 13 str that is normally required to multiclass paladin
>the rogue wants to remain dex-based, and is willing to forego the armor and shield proficiencies gained from paladin
would you allow this?

>>54939481
they're stupid and for furries

>>54939487
Xanatar likes his fish
They are low maintinance
They are kept in spheres, the superior shape

>>54939480
Why not? My Rogue has a 20 passive perception without Feats.

>>54939461
Current campaign any PHB race is fine (including drow), but beyond that everything is banned because fuck them.

>>54939517
No they would fall more under the scaley catagory, you should know this shit anon

>>54939516
if he's going redemption paladin he's probably eyeing the 16 + dex base armor

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>>54939273
The closer the art gets to telling a story, usually the better it is.

>>54939480
It's not hard for a rogue to get that. Or for a raven warlock. Or anyone with the observant feat.

>>54939514
>proficiency + wisdom + perception bonus
What did he mean by this?

>>54939571
people with expertise in perception get things like 19 passive perception.

>>54939571
Theres a feat that just straight up gives +5 pp

>>54939542
same shit

>>54939571
Assuming he means:
>Prof mod + wisdom bonus + any perception modifiers.

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>>54939560
5e art has some really, really good bits.

>>54939516
No. Rules are rules. He's trying to powergame.

>>54939595
Not really

>>54939514
>>54939535

It's 10+WIS mod. You aren't going above 15 normally.

>>54939461
No drow (for obvious reasons) and no kobolds (because it's just weird to have a kobold with PC stats who's so unstoppable that he doesn't have to fight smart.)

>>54939549
No, it's me and I'm still trying to figure out which oath to take, kind of eyeing oath of ancients right now

>>54939601
Pic unrelated?

Bladesinger vs valor bard for a Gish? Also, are lore bards really that much better than valor?

>>54938872
Will someone explain how GWM completely breaks the game? Sure, 4 attacks with +10 damage apiece sounds great, until you factor in -5 to hit.

In most situations against monsters with relevant CRs, the penalty to hit actually LOWERS DPR. Has nobody else actually factor in comparing AC to your to hit modifier?

The only example I can think of where it really shines is a fighter with advantage wielding a longsword with 2 hands, which is already subpar.

>>54939273
As metal as that is, it sends the wrong message. You'd probably spank it to at least one of those three characters.

>>54939612
Its 10+Wis+Proficiancy(+5 with that feat)

>>54939601
This one in particular was always excellent.

It's a shame they botched the cover.

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>>54939601

>>54939691
Post that hut with chicken legs

>>54939629
Because it's pretty easy to get advantage, and you are selective in when you use it. If the ac is super hard to hit, you don't use it.

>>54939628
They're both full casters who have no good reason to use swords. Bladesingers can have astronomically high AC, which is useful even when you're casting from the rear like a sensible wizard. Valor bards are a strict downgrade from lore bards, but a bard is still quite useful and can be the party's healer.

>>54938497
[citation needed]

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>>54939691
This one is probably my favorite, because it shows off the darker side of adventuring and what failure can mean.

>>54939738
Bitch is laying on hands, she's gonna get stabilized.

>>54939518
They also can't plot againat him or escape.

>>54939826
>not Awakening his goldfish to get the down-low on his plots

>>54939713

Doesn't someone pretty much need to give up a turn or use their action to give advantage?

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>>54939162
compare the lengths of her legs, back leg is longer the front leg, this artist has no fucking clue about anatomy and proportion.

>>54939480
Doesn't he? I got 35..

>>54939691
Front cover
>>54939601
Back cover

I really wish they had done that. That and never made Eldritch Blast a thing.

>>54939909
Stop lying.

>>54939480
>lv17+
>20 WIS
>perception expertise
>Observant feat
32 passive perception

>>54939005
It's as if halflings were a mistake. Really makes you think.

>>54939754
Nah, the dwarf is about to snap her neck quick and clean. She is bleeding out from the gut wound and that is a painful way to go.

Mad respect for dwarf-bro. That is a heavy burden to take on. Shhhh, no suffering, only silence.

>>54939894
yes the one with her weight on it and unextended is shorter. You've caught them, they're using anatomy.

What causes you to throw a character sheet in the garbage like a recruiter throws black people's resumes away?

>>54939956
Level 17 Bard with Observant, 14 Wisdom, Enhance Ability:Wisdom , Stone of Good Luck and Expertise in Perception

10 + 12 + 5 + 5 + 2 + 1 = 35

>>54938313

Why???

Was the wizard reduced to meat paste?

Were is a werewolf hiding in a forest and what is a good way to let my players notice him while they are on the road?

>>54939516
Tell that wimp to hit the gym. Shouldn't dump strength if you wanna be a paladin.

>>54940002
>counting magical items and spells

Time to fuck off.

>>54939516
Tell that wimp to star rouging himself some tomes of Strength

>>54940040
>Not counting items
Anon, you're just wrong
>Frothing at the mouth over spells
It's just so I don't have to buy a sentinel shield, but I could.

>>54940019

On top of a hill in the distance, howling-when the players notice him, he runs off.

>>54939719
Well shit, i posted a few threads ago talking about making a skald type character with a sword and shield, but the more i read the less of a good idea it sounds like.

>>54940019
Anywhere you say, anon.

Say that a naked guy comes out of the forest covered in dried blood and assures the party that it's not what it looks like.

>>54939878
I have found that many tables play with optional Flanking rules, since it kinda brings back the 3.5 vibe. In that case GWM is really good.

In AL-play or without Flanking rules, GWM is lackluster for any class that can easily get advantage. Rogues, Rangers, Warlocks, Wizards, Druids, and Sorcerers got better shit to do than waste time swinging a two-hander. For the other classes GWM is a nice bonus. Everything a feat should be.

>>54939979
your legs have these things called bones in them, they're highly resistant to "shortening"

On top of that, due to perspective, the leg in bag should appear shorter, never longer than the front leg unless foreshortening is involved.

ON TOP OF THAT, notice how i only pointed out the lengths below the knee? no foreshortening is happening there, which is why i explicitly chose it.

>>54939962
Throw on some magic items
Tome of understanding
Ioun stone of mastery
Robe of eyes

Do ghouls eat zombies since they're walking corpses? And if so, would a ghoul theoretically target zombies in preference to the player since their flesh is more rotten?

>>54940068
Make a fighter or barbarian with the Entertainer background. That's all you need. Tell tales and make grand boasts and have fun and don't use magic because that makes for a shitty saga.

>>54940068
Paladins are close to Skalds.
Stone sorcerers are VERY close to Skalds

There's a lot of options.

>>54940093
They're not highly resistant to lengthening though, thats why they have special joints especially around the boots area.

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>Medicine is WIS based because Clerics should have high WIS
>Stealth is DEX based because Rogues should have high DEX
I mean I get it, but I don't have to like it

>>54940068
Lore Bard can melee effectively with BoomBlade from Magic Initiate. You wont be quite as effective as a Valor at it but make up for it with Lore abilities.

If a Skald is your theme Valor Bard is the best Archer in the game.

>>54939979
Are her bones being compressed?

>>54940062
Magical items shouldn't be included in this discussion because they're so DM dependent. It's like saying you have 33 AC as a barbarian because your DM lets you dual wield Defenders and handed out a couple of Manuals of Bodily Health.

>>54940100
Apparently undead isn't quite the same as dead. A lot of adventures have zombies and ghouls working together. And anyway, attacking other undead doesn't trigger that same kind of instinctual hatred for the living that all undead share.

>>54938267
If my Sorceress only has one combat concentration spell, is it even worth taking War Caster? I have Maximilian's Earthen Grasp and Invisibility. I am level 4 currently and rebuilding my character so I need a feat. She also uses a magic dagger and has martial weapon prof, and can wear medium armor due to a pact made during the campaign.
Any ideas for feats for would be helpful.

>>54940108
The art is shit and I could shit out something better in ~2 hours.

t. drawfag

>>54940136
A stone of good luck is an uncommon item anon, and it's not so DM dependent as that, considering I picked it up off Curse of Strahd.

>>54940068
A bard MC can easily melee if you can get some armor in them and dump dex which might be bad for certain skills in their repitoire. >>54940123
knows. It's just that valor is a mediocre subclass.

>>54940125
Her front boot is, her back leg is probably just extended straight instead of crouching.

>>54940149
I think it's a highly accurate little monster thing. Not even awful depiction of anatomy but sort of awful design of anatomy.

>>54940006
Yes
sadly no, we talked him down

>>54940147
Twin Haste

>>54940108
unless her ankle dislocated, that is way too much lengthening, notice i measured from knee to heel and both feet are at roughly 90 degree angles, no significant lengthening or shortening should be happening there.

>>54940149
What about shitting out an oar-wielding cleric at the drawthread?
>>54935180
much obliged :^)

>>54940171
There's not significant lengthening, there's barely any lengthening which could be accounted for by the relative angles of her legs.

>>54940151
It's always the DM's choice what items the party gets you moron.

>>54940160
What should i MC with? Fighter or paladin then a shit ton of lore bard?

>>54940123
We have a valor bard in our game that has never made a weapon attack, ever.

Feels weird man.

>>54940113
>Stealth is DEX based because Rogues should have high DEX

What stat would you make stealth? DEX covers your general coordination and ability to move in a precise, careful way. If you think of the opposite of DEX as being clumsiness, it wouldn't make a good sneak.

>>54940170
Well shit, guess I'm keeping this feat then. But I chose Empowered Spell and Quickened Spell. Should I swap Empowered out for Twinned? My spells currently are Fire Bolt, Booming Blade, Shocking Grasp, Prestidigitation, Green-Flame Blade, Shield, Scorching Ray, Invisibility, Max. Earthen Grasp, and Mirror Image.
So right now Twinned won't be too helpful unless it works for GFB?

>>54938872
What are your thoughts on Magic Initiate? I took it on a Warlock to grab Bard cantrips. Vicious Mockery just felt right for my GOO Warlock.

>>54940206
if it's not significant lengthening then her back leg should be as long or SHORTER than her front, instead it is longer. This is not how legs or perspective work.

>>54940220
You're not wrong, it just feels like some of the stats can be a little vague and blanketing

>>54940224
Twinned does apply to GFB and Booming Blade, yes. That's how sorc does extra attacks

>>54940262
GFB targets more than one creature. It doesn't work with twin. Booming blade works fine

>>54938662
Don't stutter.

>>54940249
It's like 6% longer, I measured. 6% difference in leg height isn't even bad anatomy, the pose could account for much more difference.

>>54940144
Good point, although I would've thought a ghoul's insatiable hunger for flesh would eventually force them to eat their zombie compadres

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>>54940284
>>54940262
Well, that's disappointing. At least Booming Blade will be better at level 5.

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Any tips on optimizing a Storm Sorcerer? Playing one at Level 3, not sure what spells to take, what metamagics to take, etc.

>>54940284
Ah, you're right. I keep forgetting that even though it doesn't 'target' the second creature it does affect it

>>54940300
Wwwwhy not, aaanon

>>54940216
>makes a point about plausibility over technicality
>low rarity
>adventure prescribed
>hurr dur, but muh technicality

okay then

>>54940224
I don't think you can swap metamagics, but if your DM allows it, I'd definitely swap. Twin haste is just so good. You can also booming blade fellas twice for half the cost of quickened.


>he didn't pick Pact of the Tome
lol@u

>>54940341
He is letting us rebuild our characters fully now that we hit level 4.

>>54940236
>>54940341
woops

>>54940307
>the pose could account for much more difference.
no, it really cant. the back leg is angled slightly away, so not only should it be shorter because it's further away, but it should be shortened further due to it's angle. There is nothing to suggest why her back leg is longer, except artist incompetence or a physical deformation.

>>54940339
Come back when you have a real argument.

Is there a way to beat a werewolf without magic or silvered weapons?

Do you start players at level 1, level 3, or level 5? Or even higher?

>>54940375
first: she is obviously physically deformed, thats sort of canon for small races now.
>shortened further due to its angle
The boot is completely different on the back leg, the front boot is compressed and high up on the knee, the back one is farther down and uncompressed. It's perfectly reasonable for it to be in a different position on the leg as the foot angle would make obvious. It is probly slightly misproportioned in itself but not relative to the body. Relative to her knee pad thing distance to boot.

>>54940449
Kill it harder.

>>54940449
shove 'em down a deep hole. Or use a liberal amount of fire.

>>54940449
It can still drown or die from falling damage.

>>54940450
Only start at 1 if it's literally the first game ever for everyone. Otherwise, 3-5.

>>54940341
>>54940361
Pact comes at level 3. While I intend to go with tome, I try not to pre-plan out my character's progression and try to have my choices be reflections of his encounters.

>>54940471
>>54940490
Werecreatures are immune to fall damage.

>>54940459
>>54940471
>>54940490
Like what would be a good forest hazard or terrain that players can abuse so they can kill a werewolf?

>>54940529
Burn down the forest

>>54940529
A lake or river. Grapple, drag to water, drown.

>>54940522
They are not. They are immune to BPS from non-magical attacks--they are purposely not immune to fall damage, same as devils and such.

>>54940459
that STILL doesn't account for the back leg not only appearing longer, but actually BEING longer than the front. Like, sure, there are perspective tricks to make something "look" longer in perspective, but if it's actually measurably longer, that's bad perspective.

>>54940522
>Werecreatures are immune to fall damage.
maybe so, but it's a bitch of a climb back up, and OP only said "beat" not "kill"

>>54939713
And when you don't use it, it's useless. So basically, you can use it against level appropriate creatures that have low AC with bloated HP, which washes out, or you use it on minions to make sure they die in one shot. Otherwise, you have this wasted feat slot. Maybe you'll get lucky and the wizard will cast something to give you advantage, but saving throws make sure that's not a guarantee.

Even on a barbarian using reckless attack the Savage attacker feat only loses out by MAYBE one DPR. If you're up against something where you can't get advantage, Savage attacker actually OUTDAMAGES GWM for a barbarian, and gimps a fighter unless you're burning all your superiority dice on precision attack or crit fishing.

I'll concede that it works for paladins, but loses to PAM and actually even to plain old duel wielding, because crit fishing smites is just THAT good.

>>54940545
All sources of direct damage counts as an attack.

>>54940581

I thought plummeting to the ground was considered indirect damage-it's not like the ground itself is attacking you, and being pushed doesn't directly involve damage most of the time.

>>54940579
>And when you don't use it, it's useless
yes, that's how feats work.

>>54940578
It's very slightly longer, yes. Not nearly as long as you seem to be getting mad about, like I said it's a few percent longer than the other which is even less compared to the total height with them stumpy legs.

Pertaining to werewolf/devil/etc damage immunity...
>Blunt trauma from ground
>Blunt trauma from enormous boulder
>Blunt trauma from giant's greatclub
>Blunt trauma from paladin's mace
Where can a line realistically be drawn?

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>>54940581
Not even close, anon. An attack is something that involves an attack roll or something that is otherwise directly called an attack (like grappling and shoving). Might want to consider cracking open that there PHB before posting again.

>>54940647
>can take literally an infinite amount of bashes to the head by the world's strongest warrior wielding a warhammer
>can take literally infinite cannon shots to the face with no repercussions
>gets hurt from falling 10 feet

If you advocate for this you're a shit DM.

>An attack is something that involves an attack roll or something that is otherwise directly called an attack (like grappling and shoving)

You mean like shoving a werewolf off a cliff?

>>54940123
>Archer
Unfortunately I've just never enjoyed playing an Archer, i suppose i could give lore bard a try, maybe MC it with something

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>>54938267
My player almost ended up dying from fighting 3 poisonous snakes.
>be me
>DM'ing a 1st level 5E campaign
>party consists of a ranger, a cleric, and a barbarian
>they get a bag of 1d4 snakes dumped on them by a kobold
>no problem, right?
>they dispatch two with ease
>and now it's the snakes turn.
>bites the barbarian, giving 2d4 poison
>both 4's.
>mild panic.jpg
>ranger goes to the shoot the snake
>nat 1, deviates by 5 feet as per houserule
>right into the barbarian
>I try to give the barbarian a chance, and roll for the arrow again to see if it penetrates her AC
>18
>sweating.gif
>roll damage
>3 points short of knocking her into instant death
>barbarian is raging IRL
>cleric and ranger both cracking up
>as soon as combat ends the barb wants to roleplay curbstomping the ranger
>30 minute irl fight ensues

God bless my old group.

>>54940631
Between "Greatclub" and "Enormous boulder", assuming the boulder is crushing vital organs or something. Even if it's just on a limb they're still stuck under it. If a boulder falls on a creature and they fail the Athletics check to push it off or the Dex saving throw to get away from it, they go splat unless they're somehow harder than the rock (metal dragons?)

>>54940627
that's all my point ever was, it IS longer and it shouldn't be, one of many reasons why that picture is such a pile of shit.

Now on to how her thumb is thinner than her fingers..

>>54940707
Why would a huge, crushing weight become LESS effective with muscle behind it?

>>54940579
All this fucking grognard blubbering over muh GWM

Oath of Vengeance Paladin, Channel Divinity and get Advantage for a minute. Level 11 Archery mastery dex battlemaster fighter with sharpshooter throwing +11s on his 3x longbow attacks with the option to 1d10 bonus his hit roll. His almost guarantees double DPR because of that feat, and that's a whole other realm of power output compared to any non-feat setup.

It doesn't wash out because AC doesn't scale compared to opportunities for advantage and to-hit bonuses (even just from proficiency).

It's bad design. These feats need to be shitcanned.

>>54940086
Flanking absolutely destroys 5e combat. Advantage is really good and flanking just makes it way to easy to get.

>>54940751
A greatclub is never going to have the same weight as an enormous boulder. These things aren't comparable.

>>54940673
ah, but see, the earth contains silver, which is why falling on it hurts werewolves.

>>54940775
Makes sense to me, this is now my official reason if any retard bring this up in my games

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>>54939738
>>54939691
>>54939601
>>54939560

And then there's this guy.

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>>54940775
>the earth contains silver, which is why falling on it hurts werewolves.

i like it

>>54940772
That's why I specifically said it was a giant's greatclub. The implication being that it's massive and huge and extremely heavy.
If it helps, make it a titan's greatclub. My question is really about what separates a "weapon" from "environmental hazards."

>>54940775
>>54940790
>falls 10 feet down a flight of stairs
>still takes damage

Can't wait for the "oh but in my setting all wood has traces of sliver/all stairs and floors are made of silver ;)" shitposting.

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>>54939273

>>54940450
Never level 1 unless it's a brand new group, and I'll level them after one encounter each until level 3.

Level 3 is regular. I like starting a more experienced group at level 5 because there's more flexibility. My most recent game is with a familiar group and I started them at level 11 because we haven't had as much experience in the paragon tier. It's really fun.

>>54940827
the maid hasn't cleaned the stairs in quite a while.

>>54940851
So I can hurt a werewolf with a really dirty sword?

>>54940851
alternatively, the werewolf is just faking it, for the attention.

>>54940868
you can try

>>54938662
Be ready to get gud at improv!

>>54940545
>-they are purposely not immune to fall damage, same as devils and such.
remember to thank Gandalf for shoving a Balrog down the depths of the planet guys

>>54939691
THAT should have been the PHB cover.

>>54940816
It still doesn't matter. RAW:

>Immunities: Bludgeoning, Piercing, And Slashing Damage From Nonmagical Weapons That Aren't Silvered

An enormous boulder falling on you is not a weapon, unless a character is wielding it as an improvised weapon.

>>54940754
This also ignores how easy it is to prone and bone. Or if there's a wolf totem barbarian at all. Or if you use flanking rules.

>>54938388
>Warlocks use Cha instead of Int

Preach.

>>54941000
The only way a boulder is going to fall on something mid-combat is if a character causes it or it's a trap. Both of which are considered attacks.

And it does matter because immersion is important.

>>54941000
I understand the RAW of it, I'm not an idiot. What I'm wondering is if it actually makes any sort of """realistic""" sense, and where to draw the line. For example, is a hurled boulder a weapon?

>>54940754
>It's bad design. These feats need to be shitcanned.
yeah! fuck martials! why should they get nice things?

>>54940827
Oops, left my silver platter on my silver plated stairs in my silver mansion, isb't it fun being rich fellow adventurers

>>54941139
Yeah I'm sure it's likely a DM will have werewolves attack your silver mansion.

>>54941139
so that's where i left my spoon...

>>54940827
Technically there's trace amounts of silver in basically everything

>>54941047
Why should warlocks use intelligence? They're not using magic systematically and studiously. Their pact puts magic inside of them, so they end up not so different from sorcerers, hence why they use their force of personality and conviction to access and shape it.

>>54941199
If I fuck a werewolf with my silver strap on, do they take damage?

>>54941239
If you fuck a werewolf, you'd better be looking out for those bodily fluids

>>54941081
Stop cowering behind "muh martials" defense. These feats don't make martial more interesting to play. You HAVE to take the feat because if you don't you will SUCK compared to other martials. Case in point: Battlemaster fighter forgoes his superiority die usage for anything other than precision because guaranteeing a flat +10 damage is mathematically better than all his other options 9 times out of 10.

You really want to give a Martial a real GAME to play? You free him from his GWM obligation and give him some actually interesting feats with his extra ASI's to play in the same game as the scenario-altering wizards.

Grognards, man.

>>54941239
the better question is: it is bludgeoning or piercing?

>>54941211
>Warlocks are seekers of the knowledge that lies hidden in the fabric of the multiverse. Through pacts made with mysterious beings of supernatural power, warlocks unlock magical effects both subtle and spectacular. Drawing on the ancient knowledge of beings such as fey nobles, demons, devils, hags, and alien entities of the Far Realm, warlocks piece together arcane secrets to bolster their own power.

>>54941259
>Stop cowering behind "muh martials" defense. These feats don't make martial more interesting to play. You HAVE to take the feat because if you don't you will SUCK compared to other martials. Case in point: Battlemaster fighter forgoes his superiority die usage for anything other than precision because guaranteeing a flat +10 damage is mathematically better than all his other options 9 times out of 10.
maneuvers can be used after the hit is confirmed, you only need to precision attack if you miss.

>>54940673
Falling off a cliff is a dex save to take half damage
A sword is an attack roll
You have immunity against attack rolls

>>54941319
If you get pushed off a cliff it counts as an attack.

Regarding starting at higher than level 1:

Never, ever, ever. Not only will it take you pussies only two or three sessions to get to level 3, but those are really important sessions that you don't want to miss. Your choice of subclass should be largely a reaction to your first adventure or two, both in the sense of roleplaying in the story and in the sense of what magic items you get and how your party's tactics develop as you get accustomed to working with each other. Starting play with a full character progression already in mind is part of the cancerous player habit of not playing in the game world, like deciding on the way in which your character's personality and alignment will change before you even know what the adventure is.

And yes, I know low-level characters are weak. No duh. That's great! The challenge will never be more real than it was before you became nigh-invincible.

>>54941313
That's not how Precision Attack works. You need to use it before the DM confirms whether it's a hit or miss.

>>54941313
You'd only do that to cost-ineffectively damage nova. You only get a max 1d12 damage out of any maneuver and if you look at total time spent through the levels you spend the most time with 1d10s

>>54941357
If this is actually how werewolves work it is extremely moronic. If they stumble off a cliff they die, but if someone pushes them they magically develop a resistance to physics?

>>54941394
Before the DM confirms, but after you roll the first roll. It's pretty easy to know if you've hit or not and need to expend the die.

>>54941357
You are pushed, it's an attack roll, the effect is that you get moved against your will 5 feet. It just so happens you drop from orbit, which is a separate event that gets resolved after the shove action

Obviously. Or else pushing a hag on an old oven would make you a pyromancer

>>54941405
No worse than the fags thinking it's fine to have a werewolf be a-okay after being crushed by a giant's boulder but can die by the same boulder if it falls naturally.

>>54941390
But Anon, different subclasses require different stats, like how Arcane Tricksters require high intelligence off the bat, and Valor Bards or Blade Wizards will ask of you some dex

>>54941459
Indeed. When I asked >>54941069 is when I stopped getting responses.

Can you use an immovable rod to awkwardly parachute?

>>54941390
You'd be right if it wasn't for the fact that you have literally fucking nothing with most classes until at least level fucking 2. Also starting at level 1 makes next to no fucking sense with 80% of the backgrounds players can choose from the PHB.

>>54941394
as a player with both eyes and ears, by the start of round 2 at the latest, i can usually tell you what any creature's AC is.

As someone who has played a fighter, I can safely assume the following:
I roll a 1-9? Miss, no reason to use precision against most opponents
10-14? May need to use precision
15+? use other maneuver

this is all, of course, assuming this is an average, level appropriate encounter

>>54941513
Strength saving throw to hold on to the rod of 5+5 for every 10 foot drop
You take take damage equivalent to the fall damage you'd take hitting the ground minus the remaining distance

>>54941541
Keeping track of AC is metagaming and you're a bad player if you do that.

>>54941513
Not very effectively. Because it's a magic item, you can't turn it on and off as your free interaction for the turn, so you're stuck using it only once per round. You'll fall a fair distance in between button pushes and have a lot of trouble catching yourself each time.

>>54941513
I would say yes, only on the condition that you're able to make strength checks to hang on when you stop and avoid ripping your arms off, depending on how far you're falling. It'd be really exerting.

>>54941513
I would say yes, for the first 10-20 feet, after that, gonna have to roll something to not fuck it up.

>>54941550
>Keeping track of AC is metagaming and you're a bad player if you do that.
not tracking shit, when someone just hit on a nat 14, it's not hard to tell that i'll need a nat 14 to hit.

Why do a lot of DMs think you are not supposed to share the monsters AC?
They are going to figure out really quick anyway, it's faster and more fun when the players can see if their own roll is successful.
Besides you can fluff it as the characters observing how well defended the enemy seems.

>>54941519
That's just another way of saying that low-level classes are weak, which is circular reasoning, because of course they are. That's the point.

And your point about some backgrounds requiring experience is just wrong. Having 0 XP doesn't mean you have zero experience in life. A level 1 character is already far above a typical NPC guard or thug.

>>54938870
says the guy who posts a 2e pic?

>>54941577
No, that's literally keeping track of AC. I bet you track HP too and share it with others.

>>54941547
>>54941563
Can you effectively monkey-bar to have a slow flight speed using two immovable rods?

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>>54940323
>optimizing

>>54941563
You'd fall 580 ft in a round if you did nothing but falling.

>>54941626
>I bet you track HP too
Y-yes? I also keep track of my spell slots, like the filthy munchkin that i am.

>>54941519
You're assuming "level 1" means "untested." This is false. Most people aren't even level 1. Heck, most soldiers aren't even level 1. Level 1 means you are already exceptional.

>>54941563
You should not be applying rigid combat rules to this sort of endeavor. Unless the rod specifically requires 6 seconds between button presses (which would be silly), this is an artificial barrier to give someone who's not being threatened by swords.

>>54941663
Don't strawman like a liberal. You know by context this means monster HP.

>>54941626
Monster HP is the same as monster AC, just describe it as the characters being able to tell how wounded or tired the enemy seems.

>>54941578
Every time I run combat, I tell the players the AC of an enemy after the first one or two hits someone lands on an enemy. If there's a different type of enemy hanging around, they don't learn that one's AC until they attack it. So if you were fighting a squad of soldiers, then yeah, their AC is 15- But the captain who just rode in on his horse could have a different one.

>>54941634
Not *effectively*, no, but ya could travel the distance, aye

>>54941710

Sorry, I meant "in effect," not effectively.

>>54941480
I never thought my halfling rogue would be an arcane trickster until I found a Headband of Intellect.

And anyway, the tertiary abilities determined by subclasses don't need to be high when compared to the main ability you hit things with. A character that isn't optimized on paper or in a white room can still be the best choice for the situation. Beware the sunk cost fallacy.

>>54941607
I brought up the "nothing until level 2" point not just because it's weak, it's because you have nothing to work with that's actually any fun. If it's an experienced group then there's no reason to start at 1, it doesn't bring anything other some tension for the first, maybe two, fights. Maybe it's the way my DM is, but most guards and soldiers are at least level 1 because they have some semblance of training that puts them above Fish Monger #4

>>54941305
I think the fluff adds to my vague annoyance with warlocks. They really should have more distinct spell lists than wizards, because it ends up feeling very "you are like a wizard but you didn't get the power yourself".

>>54941688
how would i be able to track it's HP? I don't have any contextual clues to how much it has, total. I DO, on the other hand, have an exact number for what constitutes a "hit" on said monster, plus it stops the following from happening:
>i rolled a 24, do i hit?
>yes
>ok, i also rolled... a 24, do i hit?
>yes
>okay i got a 25, hit?
>yes
>24 again, hit?
>yes

>>54941664

This doesn't really explain things like hunters, who are reliably able to take down large game without dying. Hell, a bunch of peasants with spears should be able to take down a boar, but if you rolled a bunch of Level 0 commoners up against a regular boar, I'd take the boar.

>>54941664
It would really be awkward if it behaved completely differently in and out of combat. The limit on how fast it can be activated, as a natural consequence of the rules for magic items, could easily represent a delay between pushing the button and the item taking effect.

>>54941780
>asking if you hit

Yep, shit player confirmed. I feel sorry for your DM, provided you have one.

>>54941790
Its a narrativism concept, level 0 commoners aren't "important" enough to go on quests and adventures.

>>54941626
you can't track HP precisely unless the DM is being lazy and not rolling HP. An "Orc" is anywhere between 8 and 24 HP.

I inform my players without giving hard values. They can tell how wounded something is. "Unharmed" "Merely scratched" 75% "Wounded" 50% "Severely Wounded" 25% "Nearly critical" 1%

If someone delivers a massive crit on a Dragon, and the dragon is "merely scratched" I feel the players should be able to *know* that.

>>54941757
*shrug*, this opinion is irrelevant to me. My DM cut his teeth in adventure league and so up to level 4 I am allowed to change anything I want about the character at any point between sessions, as long as I declare that change at the beginning.

>>54941688
Could we not look for contrived excuses to bring politics into a D&D thread?

>>54941807
should I NOT be asking if i hit?

>>54941807
>can't remember AC
>can't ask the DM to decide hits
So what according to your presumably consistent set of opinions is the correct way to attack a monster?
Roll the die and just say that you hit regardless of the number?

>level 1 doesn't mean untested, most soldiers aren't even level 1

This is silly. Most hunters, soldiers, barbarians, etc etc that go home at the end of the day will be level 1. A professional anything should be level 1 or 2 probably. These people go through training, the put time and effort toward their class, it's silly to think they aren't even level 1.

>>54941757
That doesn't really apply to *never ever *... I mean for fucks sake characters die and new ones have to be rolled all the time.
What shall I have your level 1bard do in Castle Ravenloft, take Polaroids?

>>54941761
>it doesn't bring anything other [sic] some tension
You're making my case for me. Tension and challenge are harder and harder to find the more you rise in level. The monsters just can't keep up with you, and a party that isn't even freshly rested can kill CR 20 stuff at level 10. An advanced player should be excited by play at level 1 because you have to actually use your mind and the environment rather than just use the win buttons on your character sheet, and they should be bored by play at level 15 because it's so much easier.

Regarding your second point, If you'll actually look at the NPCs in the Monster Manual you'll see how they compare to 1st level characters, and it's often not very favorable. Also, PCs and NPCs are not built in the same way. An NPC should never have PC levels like in 3.5 - the closest thing it might be able to do is cast spells equivalent to a caster of a certain level, without having any of that class' other features.

>>54941844
The only true way to play is that the DM rolls everything for you, describes what you do, and tells you exactly where you can move. You're just there for the character sheet

The thread has taken a completely retarded turn, can we come back to discussing Eldritch Blast?

>>54941836
>>54941844
YOU don't get to decide anything. You roll, tell your DM the hit+damage results (you seriously better roll both at the same time), then your DM describes the result.

This is D&D101 shit here. Have you even played the game?

>>54941860
Well traditionally they had commoner levels, not adventurer levels. Nowadays backgrounds give almost as much as a commoner level did.

>>54941883
No, because that was even worse.

>>54941891
Only if by "traditionally" you mean "literally only 3rd edition."
In the AD&D editions, commoners were level 0, as were most soldiers.

>>54941860
If they were level 1 PCs, yes, they'd probably be level 2 by the end of their first battle. But they don't start at level 1. That's just where players start. A normal person is much weaker than a level 1 player character. This used to be represented in AD&D by "0 level" characters with a negative amount of XP.

>>54941888
>You roll, tell your DM the hit+damage results
>>i rolled a 24, do i hit?
>>yes
>>ok, i also rolled... a 24, do i hit?
>>yes
>>okay i got a 25, hit?
>>yes
>>24 again, hit?
>>yes
>Yep, shit player confirmed. I feel sorry for your DM, provided you have one.

you seem awfully confused.

>>54941883
We've already come to the consensus that Eldritch Blast was dumb and that the PHB would have probably been better with NO warlock than the eldritch blast turret version.

we're fixing 5e one step at a timeme.

>Anonymous 08/18/17(Fri)15:44:49 No.54941926 ▶
>>>54941888
>>You roll, tell your DM the hit+damage results
>>>i rolled a 24, do i hit?
>>>yes
>>>ok, i also rolled... a 24, do i hit?
>>>yes
>>>okay i got a 25, hit?
>>>yes
>>>24 again, hit?
>>>yes
>>Yep, shit player confirmed. I feel sorry for your DM, provided you have one.
>you seem awfully confused.

no u

>>54941926
Asking whether or not you hit is both superfluous and annoying.

>>54938372
>what can i do to convince him to stop being such a detriment and accept his role?

Stop being such a meta gaming faggot, play your own character and shut the fuck up? Best advice I have for you.

Can you use go flurry of blows to attack different targets?

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>>54941911

It takes 0 experience to reach level 1, and you can't have fewer experiences than zero. The difference between a level 1 character and a commoner is putting in a few weeks of training and getting in shape. Like your orientation period at your rl job.

>>54941934
The kind of people who post on this thread are not the kind of people the warlock was made for. You're not supposed to be warlocks any more than you're supposed to be Champion fighters. You're supposed to be wizards. The simpler classes are for those who didn't solve D&D years ago.

>>54941955
Yes.

>>54941958
You're simply wrong. XP is not a one-for-one measure of literal experiences your character has had. You can work in a violent profession for months or even years before reaching level 1.

>>54941981
Even if those targets are some distance apart?

>>54941926
I presume his intent is you going "hey I rolled a 24 to hit and did 15 damage" at which point the DM describes the result ("you hit / miss / fluff")

>>54941994
You can move in between attacks when you get multiple attacks a turn.

>>54941994
There's nothing stopping you from moving between actions. This isn't a video game where you have a "movement phase."

>>54941903
Uhh I don't remember if there were MM entries or what in older editions but I'm sure there was something somewhere cause 2E was vast. Other systems have used it too.

>>54941958
>>54941990
Level 1 is novice adventurer. That's exactly what you'd be if you went to a wizarding school for a year or maybe joined the army for a similar amount of time.

>>54941834
Did you miss the asshole samefag who started fights with himself over politics

>>54941955
Yes, but the key to remember is that the Flurry comes immediately after making a regular attack. So you can move, but if you can't make those unarmed strikes, you lose the spent ki.

>>54941990
Of course it is, if training didn't yield results in game militaries wouldn't bother training soldiers. Wizard colleges wouldn't ecist because it would be pointless to try to advance. Killing monsters is not the only source of XP and it's silly to think that being in training or some type of conflict would not grant a worthwhile amount of experience to see results.

>>54941880
>not including the bit where I said how shortlived that tension is using RAW exp
This sounds fine an dandy if you just refuse to let your players level up, but almost none of 5e is meant to be played at level 1 for more than 30 minutes at most
>use your mind and the environment to win
in the starting tavern or the fucking cave of goblin shit with maybe a wolf tied up outside?

>they should be bored by play at level 15 because it's so much easier
>being able to do more things is less fun
Only if the DM's a hack that can't actually produce anything for the players to be challenged by

>also, PCs and NPCs are not built in the same way. An NPC should never have PC levels
So what the fuck does that make every other great wizard in the lore, or the fuckers in charge of abbeys that clerics are from. Nobody can learn the same way the PCs do?

>>54941934
Who is this "we" of which you speak? Because I strongly disagree with everything you just said, and I'm pretty sure you don't have a strong consensus behind you.

>>54942020
2E had MM entries for "humans," but those had no "levels" and were overall pretty weak. The PHB specifically says "most people are 0-level."

>>54941634
You could probably cross a ravine using that method
If you aren't
Chicken

>>54942008
>>54942016
Yes, this is the one of the awesome things of 5e, say you drop the first target but you've already spent ki to make those further unarmed attacks can you make them instead at another target?

>>54942061
See >>54942035 .

There's a little wiggle room where an NPC might become a relatively high CR doing things other than adventuring, but that doesn't change the fact that 1st level adventurers are far above recruits who just finished basic training.

>>54941834
>>54942042
I was originally going to say faggot but I knew liberal would upset more of you losers.

>>54939592
It also causes a lot of trouble because there's no clear distinction in the PHB about when the GM should ask for perception checks, and when the GM should use passive perception (except when a creature is sneaking about.)

The Sage Advice on the topic turns it into Reliable Talent, But Better which the game is DEFINITELY not suited for... It's a horrible mess.

>>54942109
Why did you (you) me all i brought up was some samefag who was an asshole

>>54942078
PCs and NPCs use completely different rules in 5e. NPCs get more HP, fewer abilities, and sometimes ways to break the action economy that should never be given to players. If you don't like that, go play 3.5 or earlier.

>>54942035
your setting will look weird if 1 year at school turns out a wizard.

>>54940149
do it faggot

>>54942124

Rolling Perception is trying to spot something on purpose. Passive perception is how much attention you pay when exploring around normally. When rolling for perception, any roll less than passive should just take your passive score. That's how I run shit anyway.

>>54942098
Well a level 1 fighter doesn't know a fighting style, he's physically fit and thats about it. A level 1 wizard? All of 3 cantrips (not mastered) and 2 spells? Not exactly a super human.

>>54942137
Because you're wrong and calling out samefag on anything these days makes you look retarded.

>>54942167
A shitty wizard by definition. Or 8 years of wizard school turns out a slacker who didn't pick up more than 3 cantrips and 2 1st level spells. How many spells did them harry potter kids pick up in year 1? like hundreds?

>>54942182
It was earlier this year anon, and i was giving an example of this general's bad track record with politics

>>54942138
But there absolutely are NPCs that have almost exactly what players can get. Did ya fucking look at an NPC that is same class as a player can be, like a druid? The NPC is exactly described as a 4th level player and has whatever the fuck a druid would have a 4th level. You're flat out fucking wrong on this.

>>54942216
what hit dice though? as far as i can tell the only above-average shit a lowbie PC has is a con bonus to hit dice.

>>54942138
Of course NPCs should get class levels. 5e actually promotes this by making magic equipment optional so you can have mirror matches without having to deck out the enemy in a whole crapload of magic gear you'd rather your players didn't get. Bounty hunters, evil wizards, elite military forces should all have class levels. Plus some special shit to make them unique if you want.

>>54942213
Oh I'm sorry man I thought you were referring to me.

>>54942205
i didn't read the books, but in the movies i can count, like, 10? maybe? For all the movies.
for the first movie i can remember:
oculus repairum (hermione knew before attending)
wingardium leviosa
alohomora

can't remember anything else the kids knew

>>54942281
Its fine anon, I get it

>>54942287
>>54942287

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/293109-harry-potter-spell-list

>>54942205
>A shitty wizard by definition.

a novice wizard. if they go to wizard school at 12 and they're a level 1 wizard at 13, they've got plenty of time to improve. in fact, at that rate of advancement every noble could have a bunch of class levels under their belt by time they hit adulthood.

>>54942338
What a bunch of fucking nerds, overanalyzing fuctional books about magic and shit

>>54942353
Right, levels below 3 they should totally be in school. I'd say roughly 1 year for the basic theory and a few cantrips is not unlikely. They probably have to learn to read and shit first, too. Mid-teens they should graduate as a level 3 or so. Not even bad, small town wizard for hire is a good career.

Does anyone have a table from which I can roll random spells for random spell scrolls

>>54942366
>functional

>>54942353

I assume most nobles don't even go to school, they just practice in their normal society and by the time they're 35 they're all level 5 rogues.

>>54942258
AVG:27(5d8 +5) so if you roll completely within what the monster manual says instead of by player guidelines they can either way fucking bulkier or way weaker than the average player druid. The average of 27 is the forced average of a 4th level player druid with +1 con funny enough. It basically works out just like a player character, it just doesn't take the average when you roll hit dice