/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

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Kinetic shield can't block an uratha bite

>>54919793

>I will regret taking the bait...

What about that sidebar from Forsaken in any way implies that a Kinetic Shield couldn't stop a woof bite?

If Alchemist's Touch is the template for Kinetic Shield, the fact that an substance/force is not entirely mundane is immaterial. If using the suggested rules in Creative Thaumaturgy, then the Shielding spell, at worst, would protect as usual against Potency number of supernatural attacks before the spell needs to be recast. As CofD basically has a hard rule of only one attack a turn, the spell is more than sufficient to deal with a Schnauzer with delusions of grandeur.

Also, all the woof angst about a single possible Forces 2 spell is amusing. Many mages can dish out a lot more supernatural mojo than apprentice-level spells from a single Arcanum. What's that woof going to do when that same mage with Forces 2 decides to negate gravity?

In any event, werewolves are indeed capable of fighting mages, although the odds will generally not be even. However, using a direct tooth and claw strategy against a mage proficient in controlling the energies of the universe is just plain dumb, if not suicidal.

>Given these endless discussions, I wouldn't be surprised if the rote for a kinetic shield would be called "Fuck U Garou."

>>54919793
Let's not do this again. Please. Just rule it however you want at your own table and leave others alone.

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Feedback requested on this character sheet for the Slender Man.

https://pastebin.com/tMwkuTtG

>>54919880
>>54919889
Ignore the phone poster.

>>54919984

But the bait, it's so shiny...

I still don't get why Changelings don't try to reason with regular humanity for help against the True Fae. They don't have any horrifying, evil deed necessary to live like Vampires, Werewolves, and Beasts do, they don't have any terrible, monstrous agenda like Geists, Mummies, and Mages do, and they don't have a literal curse that makes everyone ever hate them like Prometheans do. They, as compared to every other monster, have the LEAST to lose by breaking their equivalent of the mask/masquerade/etc.

>>54920047

I'm about the farthest thing from a SJW you could be, but even I understand that the mass of humanity tends to fear and destroy what they don't understand.

If changelings revealed themselves to humanity, it would be a disaster.

>>54920047
If a Changeling ever did try to do that and got some serious traction, you can bet they would be taken care of and any traces of what they did wiped out by the other splats. That's opening a door no one wants open. "If fairies are real, what about monsters? Like vampires and werewolves? And what about magic, is that real?", etc.

Rate my mystery

Mystery: Philosopher's Stone

Other Names: Lapis Philosophorum, Magnum Opus, Imperium Mysteriorum, Golden Dawn
Concept: Alchemical “stones” ( crystals ) that give users power to control whole Arcana
Scale: Singular stone can replicate any spell from any Arcanum up to 5 dots, in sensory range, making it Lasting. Legendary recipe on “pure” stone should be able to make come true Archmasters powers.
Location: Anywhere finded, most of time in some alchemists possession. Stones are often seen in areas where Nicholas Flamel was. There are rumors that Prometheans also create Stones with their bodies.
Important NPCs: Nicholas Flamel, archmaster. Any dedicated Alchemist ( Moros ). Prometheans.
Described in: Magnum Opus (Flamel’s Grimoire), The Book of Life (Nicholas Kollar Grimoire), ???
Locked [ ] With Mysteries: Uncrowned Kings Legacy (Analyzing Legacy member lowers Opacity )

>>54920192
Changeling are strong as fuck and wouldn't care about any other splats other mages, demons and mummies who wouldn't bother them

>>54920338
Actually I think Archmages would be the ones to do it. Seer Archmages, most likely.

>>54920338
If they tried to break the masquerade big time, they would exist for a few days before Exarchs and their Tetrachs would've wiped them out of existence.

>>54921035
I disagree.

>>54921065
Based on what?

>>54921065
>>54920352
>>54921035
>Implying they wouldn't encourage a military invasion of Arcadia to take its power for themselves
>Implying they wouldn't then use that power to subjugate mankind
It's the perfect excuse to do what so many mages have dreamed of doing forever

>>54921135
...if you've read the Equinox Road, you know that military invasion of Arcadia is hopeless project by concept. They would encourage changelings going back into Arcadia, no doubt, but breaking the Lie is a big no-no and breaks the Pax. And you don't break the Pax without some Imperial Magic down your ass.

>Implying they wouldn't then use that power to subjugate mankind
Exarchs don't need to subjugate mankind any further. It is very pleasing as it is.

>>54921389
Fuck off /pol

>>54921389
Wrong board anon. You want /news/ or /pol/

>>54921389
This ain't /pol/, dude. Unless this was a demon interrupting some infrastructure, we don't care here.

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This is golden:
http://www.worldofdarkness.com/grimoire/tribes

>>54921509
>LARPING was a fucking mistake

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>>54921599
A mistake? This illustration captures your average Child of Gaia perfectly!

I am reading over the SAS adventure books because I want to use one of them for a quick one shot adventure in a changeling chronicle, but I'm having trouble getting my head both the Rose Bride's plight and Fearmakers promise.

The layout of the scenes seems pretty bad, and there's no real description of the NPCs

The Rosebride's Plight is especially bad because the plot revolves around a pledge made between spring and winter but there's no actual text of what the pledge entails.

Does anyone have any recommendations for how to run these scenarios?

>>54919919
so is this supposed to be a fae creature archetype?

>>54921217

Does Equinox road take the pax into account? What if mages/exarch/archmasters dont exist?

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Is this also Dracula cosplaying?

Will we get a whole series of Fabio-like splat covers?

>>54921599
LARPing suits a lot of OWoD better than tabletops.

>>54921703
>>54921625


Its embarrassing considering how good the art direction was back in the day. They really hit their highwater points in the 2000's, especially for Exalted, and its been dying ever since.

Which splat has the most interesting supporting cast mechanics in your guys opinions?

Mages can have their mystery cults, proximi apprentices and sleepwalkers.

Vampires have ghouls, and their anime harems of food.

Werewolves have the Wolf-blooded, now with the extended 'pack' mechanics to show NPCs that support the squad without always being part of it.

Worst is probably Changeling or Promethean. They have no Sub-splat, and Prometheans have to take on a magical pact to even prevent pissing off the whole world.

>>54923299
Prometheans have Alchemists after them trying to consume their vital fluids for magic powers (more of an antagonist than a sub-splat, but everything is awful for Prommies), and Changelings have ensorcelled mortals, hobgoblin pets, potentially sentient artifacts, and their fetches if they try to reason with 'em instead of kill 'em, like the Blind King did.

>>54919539
He reads like Michael Kirkbride, if you cut off Kirkbride's ketamene supply.

>>54923351
Alchemists were like half written. The basics are there, but it is just not well put together. Plus, antagonists, so not all that useful as 'support'.

Ensorcelled mortals is so not a sub-splat. It is just 'what do you call a mortal who you've made a pact with'. Though they are a supporting cast, I just feel like not enough was done with it, keeping them low tier.

>>54923299
Honestly? Ghouls. People who become ghouls aren't good or normal people, usually, and even the ones that do have to deal with psychic slavery, blood addiction and being bound to creatures like vampires.

The ghouls book has something about a ghoul so desperate for a fix that he's eating another ghoul's period. It's fucked up, but a good indicator of how twisted these people are. The mess that they become is a great twist.

Mummy 2e confirmed.

>>54923464
>Mummy 2e confirmed.

Where? Link?

>>54923416
there is the entirety of goblin markets, the hedgebeasts portion of autumn nightmares, and parts of both Rites of Spring and Equinox Roads about hobgoblins and their relationship with changelings, including as servants/allies.

Also the worst in my opinion is either Geist, where their 'support' is literally just the ghost possessing them, or Beast, where the 'sub-splats' are just the other splats.

>>54923476
>sub-splats are just the other splats
The way it should be!

>>54923474

Nobody's posted the Gen Con brochure yet?

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/217030/Onyx-Path-Publishing-Brochure-2017?src=newest

Other news: The Crossover Chronicle is now The Contagion Chronicle.

Are there any other morality systems in play besides standard Integrity, something like Harmony with breaking points up and down and the standard Humanity (Buy it up with experiences, lose because your ST hates you)?

>>54923643

Do you mean in general or specifically for mortals? Because each gameline (sans Beast) has its own equivalent, and some of them do weird stuff - like Mummy, where Memory starts low and then you buy it up over play.

>>54923643
Mirrors had examples of alternate systems of morality. But it was also built during 1e.

It has a straight sanity system, for instance. If you want your game more horror based.

>>54923672
Eh, more just the mechanics of it. Like, Integrity is just a very slow regeneration for mortals with breaking points down. Humanity/Wisdom/Related are just breaking points down, XP up. Harmony has breaking points up/down, that sort of thing.

>Nothing coming for Werewolf 2e
>Both vampire and Mage have books on the way

Welp, we dead boys.

>>54924274
>has a 2e corebook and a supplement
>while other games won't be 2e for years

Fuck off.

>>54923464

Oh, nice!

>>54924286
Werewolf is one of the big three.

It doesn't matter if Geist doesn't have a 2e yet. There should always be more on the horizon for Werewolf.

Meanwhile Mage and Vampire both have 2 books on the way. Vampire already has 1 supplement out, and still has two on the way.

>>54924325

Vampire has two supplements, actually.

Maybe Werewolf would get more books if it sold better.

>>54924354
Werewolf is better than mage and vampire and is probably the most unique take on the classic monster that OPP has.

>>54924592
>what is Promethean
>what is Changeling
>what is Demon

The Forsaken aren't even werewolves, they're just shamans that shapeshift sometimes.

>>54924624
Excuse me?
They are werewolves that shaman sometimes.

Thank you very much.

>>54921702
No, because nothing in the game takes place anywhere but the fallen world. Unless you count the place true fae go after winning the game of immortals or whatever it is they play for titles.

>>54924624
Eh, Promethean isn't so much a unique take as a 'unique twist', because the whole 'played god, created monsters' thing is how frankenstein types have always worked, but the 'hated because reality is hard-coded to hate them' is certainly new.
Also
>Changeling 2E being entirely rewritten to not 'offend' anyone
Why

Maybe I've just had bad luck with groups/GMs but every werewolf game I've been in devolves into furry murder hobos.

>>54924877
Every WoD game inevitably devolves into "assholes with superpowers," regardless of how it begins.

>>54923519
Drivethru servers are fucked, if you have it can you upload it somewhere?

>>54923519
>The Contagion Chronicle
>contagion
>"the spreading of a harmful idea or practice"
Describes the enabling of crossover pretty well.

>>54924961

sendspace /file/y51ipm

It took so much self control to not just upload Urban Shadows stuff instead.

>>54925018
Fuck off FAGGOT!

How much of a bonus do you get for selecting a specialty for a skill? I'm at the character creation part now but for some reason the relevant information expanding upon these things is around 200 pages down the road.

>>54925106
I too would have been tempted to meme. Thank you.

>>54925163
+1 for a relevant specialization. +2 if your take the area of expertise merit.

>>54925163

An extra die on relevant rolls.

>>54925018
Sounds like another all fluff no crunch book that won't address anything. Just like Thousand Years of Night.

>>54925202
>>54925206
Thanks.

>>54925220
My expectations are pretty low, and yet somehow I know I'll still be disappointed.

>>54925220
It does say the antagonists will be influenced, so if I had to guess, bad guys from every line will be represented with special rules.

You guys will still hate it though because

>infrastructure
It is going to blame this all on the God machine. The God machine has a virus!

>>54920307
C+
You've just taken a classical concept, made them effectively powerful Imbued Items, and then said they can sometimes be made by nonMages.

Make it more thematic, give it a cost, limit what Arcana it can use. Because right now it looks boring and bland beneath the thin veneer of the name.

>>54925338
I would say make it more like the actual philosopher's stone. Can use
Lasting Transubstantiation to transmute base metals into gold or silver and can also make the Elixir of Life, a potion imbued with a Life spell for eternal youth or something. Lots of Mages would be all over that.

>>54925437
Yeah, or an evolution of Mind.
Perhaps make it part of the residue of Flamel's Ascension (Legacy Ascension, Uncrowned Kings).

His Sarira did not result in the same kind of state as most others.
His, changed by the nature of his Ascension, crystallized in the form of more than a dozen Philosopher's Stones, scattered across the world.

>>54925106
Any chance you've got a copy of the new v5 playtest docs from gencon?

>>54925437
>>54925510
I don't want to do that. I want a stone that allows one to control magic at a master level

>>54924325

Mage actually has *three* books approved. I think they might be announcing the third one at the WoD/CofD talk tomorrow.

>>54925736
Then you have an incredibly boring mystery on your hands.
Congrats.

>>54925754
Why because you say so? Who are you to judge whether my mystery is boring or not?

>>54925804
I'm the person you asked to rate your mystery.
And I rate it poorly.

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>>54925751
Oh joy another mage book when werewolf didn't get shit and Geist hasn't even received confirmation on a 2nd edition. Woohoo mage supremacy guys

>>54925865
Geist 2e is confirmed tho
I agree that every line but Vamp and Mage is getting shafted (and even those are meh) but be glad we're getting anything

>>54925865
Geist 2e is confirmed with the brochure I think

>>54925865

It's more like Requiem supremacy. It has two supplements and two on the way, with one nearly finished.

I also agree with other Anons that woofs are really getting screwed. It's been a while since The Pack, and now one of the purported "big three" not only doesn't get an announced supplement, but has to share its brochure page with Promethean. Werewolves have taken a serious plunge on the supernatural social scene. [I guess woofs haven't fared so well since mages began to liberally distribute that Kinetic Shield rote...]

I'm a little disappointed that the Crossover Chronicle has evolved into the Contagion Chronicle. Not only does the reference to Infrastructure make is sound more like Demon supplement, not everyone uses the God Machine in their games, and if crossover begins to rely on it, the CofD will definitely begin to feel less toolbox-y.

>>54926013
>be glad we're getting anything
What? They are having us kickstart half this stuff anyway. This isn't an entitlement situation, we literally pay them to build these projects.

>>54921217
>...if you've read the Equinox Road, you know that military invasion of Arcadia is hopeless project by concept.

I bet a powerful enough Archmage could do it.

>>54925838
Well let me see one of your patented mysteries Mr. Master Story Teller

>>54925751
Hey Dave, is there any legitimate reason why a mage would want to explore the abyss? Or would anyone caught sniffing around be branded left handed and waterboarded by the local Guardians?

Anyone notice the M20 supplement, "M20: Rich Bastards Guide to Magick," a supplement about rich, privileged mages.

Brucato hasn't been able, and Rich has been unwilling, to even slightly curb the extraneous left-wing political and cultural material in the line. Who the heck though that this supplement was a good idea?

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What is stronger an Archmaster or one of pic related?

>>54926144
>book about being a rich mage
>I bet people who hate the rich did this

I don't follow

>>54926178
The Q are basically the Ochemata of Ascended beings.

>>54926144
It's probably about the Syndicate paradigm... but you know, carry on with the hysterical political faggotry.

>>54926194
What mage isn't rich? It would be incredibly easy to get rich with any of the Arcana

>>54926215
>Arcana
Wrong game line.

>>54926215
Only a dumb mage makes himself obviously wealthy. Making money extremely fast is going to draw attention.

No mage is going to have money issues, but they're going to play it smart.

>>54926247
PCs are smart, NPC do every dumb thing possible if the story calls for it.

>>54926241
You can easily get rich with any of the spheres as well

>>54926194
>>54926207

Brucato is a left-wing, anti-corporate SJW. The book will not just be about rich mages, it will be endless sarcasm about conservatives (just like the other M20 books, but likely worse).

Phil has already proven that M20 is his personal political and cultural manifesto, and Rich seems to be on board. I have no doubt that the new supplement will continue the tradition of poor writing, incomplete rules, inconsistent setting, and insufferable sidebars, stupid sarcasm and player demands to conform to Phil's cultural ideas.

>>54926048
The GM precedes Demon, remember? It isn't that the GM means it is a Demon crossover, that means it is a crossover with the core/mortal line.

>>54926303
But anon, the rich can buy so much more local organic food!

>>54926303
I have no problem with my games mocking conservatives.

>>54926048

The Contagion Chronicles reeks of the seeds of overarching metaplot. A new pervasive big bad will also take up a lot of space needed for crossover rules and storyteller ideas.

>>54926333
So you want your game books to just be political diatribes instead of rules and setting?
Sounds fucking retarded.

>>54925865
Geist 2e was announced *last* GenCon. We've written it already.

>>54926333
>I have no problem with my games mocking conservatives.

You can run your games however you wish. However, M20 has been a hot mess, and much of the reasons is that Phil has treated the books as a personal political fiefdom, rather than a gameline badly in need of streamlining and support, and with a diverse fanbase who doesn't appreciate low-grade banal humor from a man who needs a Patreon to pay his rent, believes playing certain types of characters can make you evil, and M20 cannot be appreciated except when consuming locally-produced organic food.

>>54926344
It is one book.
Every other supplement will then ignore it. Less a metaplot, more storyhooks and new antagonists.

>Contagion Chronicles

>TFW no Komodo Chronicles
>OPP and WW continues to disappoint

>>54926388
Naw, give me a nice mix. It is pretty easy to mock conservatives and have content.

>>54926109
Sure, it's called
"Stop trying to deflect, and work on improving your own shit rather than trying to find some way to self-justify ignoring other's opinions on your mystery"

Look, the concept of a philosopher's stone has some promise.
But you're essentially stripping away all potential for cool magic stuff and investigation, and making them items which can potentially cast any magic.

And Mage has more then enough generic stuff like that.

>>54926430
All the hype man. I loved Geist 1e, even it being the broken mess that it was.

>>54926500
I wanted to love geist. It didn't want to be played though.

>>54926464
>It is one book

True, but the Crossover Chronicles had such *potential* to tie the CofD game lines together, and even provide a means to "balance" crossover play *within the current settings.*

A new big bad to force crossover, and using the God Machine, a device many chronicles ignore, just doesn't sound like a good idea.

I would be more than happy to be proven wrong. However, don't forget that the same people in charge of the Contagion Chronicles also wrote Beast as the crossover game/splat. I am not even remotely optimistic.

>>54926561
What would be some routes you think would be better?

>>54926494
>It is pretty easy to mock conservatives and have content.

M20 is definitely not a successful attempt. Ironically, Phil is so over the top, he's an easy caricature for conservative to make fun of liberals.

However, I hope you enjoy your organic kale at your next game session, while we order pizza and wings.

>>54926430
>>54926500

In honour of Geist 2e being done, what were the best deaths in your group?

I joined a game late where my friends had mostly made snowflakes. My character was a student who died one morning trying to extract toast with a knife and getting zapped for his troubles.

>>54926596
I'm a liberal. We just have both, because we are pro-choice.

>>54926586
>What would be some routes you think would be better?

I honestly don't know. I always thought a single crossover book or line was more likely to alienate the fans than solve any problems.

As I said, Beast was very explicitly supposed to be a crossovers splat to unite players and setting. Given that Beast was such crap, would you be hopeful?

I would be happy with a book largely focusing on reconciling mechanical and setting aspects of the various game lines with some helpful storytelling seeds for crossover. Contagion Chronicles sounds very "ambitious," and the bigger risk means the potential for greater failure and disappointment.

I'm curious, however, who will be the CC developer. If there's a god, it will not be MattMc.

>>54926690
I mean, setting stuff mostly crosses just fine.

Spirits in mage, werewolf, and Promethean are the same guys.
The underworld in Promethean, geist, and mage is seemingly the same.
Etc etc, it isn't bad I'm that area
On top of that, most antagonists work fine against other creeps. Many manipulate spirits, souls, ghosts, or mortals, which are relevant to everyone.

The only outlier is that mage mechanics make it hard to use them against other antagonists, or use them as antagonists. But the others are fine.

>>54926763
I find myself using the Shadow and Quashmal in almost all my CofD games.

>>54926763

Apparently we already have a crossover game, Mage.

Do we really need more God Machine shenanigans for crossover play?

>>54926478
>Komodo Chronicles

It would have been grand...

>>54926809
Yeah. The fact that 2e has gone with the whole 'all ephemeral entities are built like spirits' has really helped. Spirits, ghosts (who already were) and now angels and such. It unifies that area of the rules.

>>54926856
The god machine is the best thing to happen to 2e. I know some people don't like it, but it really makes the room come together even if the gm itself isn't in a chronicle.

>>54926908
Psshhh, the God-Machine is a false ruler

Kneel before the Exarchs

>>54925804
>Who are you to judge whether my mystery is boring or not?
You literally posted "Rate my Mystery". You shouldn't post things like that if you aren't prepared to get shit of all stripes flung at you.

>>54926958
90% chance the exarchs are either partially responsible are simply allow and guide the GM anyway.

It isn't a contest, it is a villain team up

>>54927197
This is what magefags believe

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>>54927400
This is what DaveB believes

>>54927410
I think DaveB would admit he's the biggest mage fanboy in the world

>>54927410
I don't care what that fuccboi said he is the epitome of a magefag

>>54927410
>the Exarchs control the God-Machine like a puppet
>the God-Machine exploits the Exarchs
What is the truth, DaveB? Are Mages the baddest around or not?

>>54927438
>>54927439
Yes, good. Keep feeding DaveB. Good bait. *pats you on the head*

>>54927444
The God-Machine exploits the Exarchs like humans exploit gravity. Which is more powerful? Humanity or the force that holds the universe together?

:^)

>>54927410
DaveB wrote 2e specifically to make Mages the undisputed most powerful splat on purpose

>>54927463
He's back everybody, DaveB is here.

>>54927463
which is capable of doing something by its own will rather than by inscrutable design?

>"Have you ever been the expert in a room full of opinionated but uninformed people? Think about the feeling you get when they speak intellectual falsehoods, and others agree. Think about the feeling you get when your voice is shouted down by the raw numbers of other voices. Then, think about the feeling you get when your voice begins to click and resonate with the audience, and you feel you can make a change, to inform, to enlighten. Multiply those feelings one-hundredfold, and you have an idea of what Gnosis is."
>implying anybody knows what it feels like to enlighten a stubborn stupid person

>>54926303
>buttmad because Phil fucked your mom and your dad


Well jeez, anon, you convinced me.

>>54921509
>i came

>>54923368
He's a stupid fuckstain, held on a pedestal by even stupider fuckstains. Please don't judge all Mage players because of fucking morons like Dave "INFINITE POWER, *itty bitty paycheque*" Bastardshaw and the "I Wish I Was An Archmage So I Could Force Women To Talk To Me On Public Transport" brigade.

>>54921509
They must consciously make the art so terrible.

>>54928399
Is this the new bait tactic? Bashing Dave to get magefags riled up?

>>54928431
>implying to get the magefags riled up you need to do anything besides suggest any other game line is slightly good
From the way they act, I'm starting to think that the Awakening might be caused by vaccines!

>>54925751
Your writing sucks and your ideas are shit. How does it feel knowing you've ridden Mage off a cliff?

>>54928480
Well that was uncalled for.

>>54928480
Everyone point and laugh at this pretentious asshole

>>54926109
My mystery is called, "The Stupid Wanker That Asks For Opinions And Then Gets Snarky When People Don't Blow Smoke Up His Ass."

The biggest part of the mystery is why he doesn't just fuck off.... who can truly say?

I'm kind of mad. I was going to never read mummy. But now an anon suggested an awesome mummy erotic story, so I'm going to have to read the book.

>>54928537
the reason I got into changeling, by the way, was the Ashwood Abbey story about them.

>>54928469
Vamp, Changeling and Geist are still good (and maybe Werewolf, haven't played it). But mage has always been a higher scale game don't pretend like 2e changed that.

>>54928636
I know it has but it seems the very suggestion that anything could ever in any circumstance take down a mage gets these people bothered as all shit.

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>>54926144
Rich Thomas thought it was a good idea. If that doesn't fill you with dread, you aren't paying attention.
>>54926207
Brucatto scrubbed paradigm for M20, because he thought people would use it to cast spells in our world. BLACKLEAF, NOOOOOOOOO
>>54926303
Hey man, I'm left wing and even I think it's OTT. Brucatto always got a bit verbose and pointed in Awakening and Sorcerers Crusade, but there was some sort of editor or dev in a position to reign in the excesses and trim the wordcount.

Putting Brucatto in charge of M20 is the proverbial fox in charge of a henhouse - he can't fucking help himself. The M20 Core is a 600 page blog, interspersed with lazy, incomplete copy-and-paste jobs from old supplements. I refuse to believe there was even an editing or proofreading stage before it went to print, because if there was, that person must be blackballed from the entire industry for incompetence above and beyond the call for stupidity.

>>54926333
Me either, but I'd like to have actual complete rulesets and consistency in a book that retails for so much cash and is so heavy it literally destroys it's own binding.

Example - the opening chapter challenges us to check our privileged attitudes by renaming Sons of Ether to Society of Ether, Dreamspeakers giving up their "slave names" and other bullshit.... yeah, okay, new setting, fine.

Skip to the character creation chapter, though, and those "new tradition names" don't appear anywhere. Point of fact, they don't appear anywhere outside the start of the book telling us how offensive those terms are.

Now, regardless of politics, can you see how fucking INCOHERENT that is? Either we have a overhauled setting, or we don't. Brucatto himself flip-flopped on whether he could retcon things (goodbye Lions of Zion) or whether that was totally out of the question, because reasons (Occult, the only Knowledge that gives wrong answers with successful dice rolls).

>>54926388
>I like sprinkles on my ice cream
>OH SO YOU JUST WANT A BOWL OF SPRINKLES YOU FUCKING MORON

Lack of understanding, endless bounty of over-reaction... Fox News Anchor detected.

>>54928915
Political nonsense is sprinkles to you?

>>54928517
>if i point and laugh, no-one will see the tears

Conceal, don't feel, Elsa.

>>54929039
Conservatives are the political nonsense, anon.

>>54929039
Yes, it is.

In this metaphor, the entire M20 core rulebook is a massive Knickerbocker Glory - the political rants? Sprinkles, their generic colours bleeding into the bland vanilla ice cream of lazy and inconsistent setting. It jostles with marshmellows of 90's cultural references more dated than an episode of Friends; peanuts of personal metaphysical beliefs from the author that should not be salty, yet they are; A thick, rancid strawberry syrup of broken rules, the author so proud he doesn't notice the dead mayflies floating in it; the entire presentation in a 600 page tall parfait glass, it's edge chipped and sharp, and the provided spoon of Kickstarter promises are woefully and inadequately short. Above it all, a sickening maraschino cherry of broken promises and buyer's remorse. The ultimate insult? The stale wafer shoved in the side, with Rich Thomas' empty promises written on it with bland platitudes and praise for Phil "eat the shit sandwich, it's locally sourced and renewable feces" Brucatto.

>>54926642
>I'm a liberal. We just have both, because we are pro-choice.

Yeah phil, doesnt believe in both. Either you go organic and local or you got to pagan hell.

>>54929538
Good thing he doesn't buy my groceries then.

>>54929538
>pagan hell

Utah?

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>>54928745
Yeah this

I was running a play by post with these rules. I hated them because they had no reasonable mechanics. How much is a fucking sux worth? fuck if the book says anything. So there were all these constant bullshit fights about what does this mean. every single time a person cast a spell.

Not to mention the new golden child disparate alliances are full of shit. They're the tradition's traditions as the real heros. It's such redundant narrative space. A group of anti modern mystics fight the man. Fuck Phil thats the fucking game

I don't give a shit about the politics I give a shit about the mechanics. Nothing was solved or set. After 20years of paradox confusion and then fucking nothing. Fuck you Phil and your shitty understanding of game systems and technical writing

>>54929699

I am on the same situation, i am thinking of just using awakening rules set and tweak it to add resonance and shove paradigm in there.

Both are written by people i hate. One goatboy Brucatto and the other a Nihilist edgelord. Fuck mage is fuck on both ends but at least the Nihilist edgelord can produce semi-decent mechanics

>>54929699
>the new golden child disparate alliances

Oh holy shit, let's not forget that little detail.
The Technocracy? IT'S A NEPHANDI FRONT!
The Traditions? IT'S A NEPHANDI FRONT!
Only the Disparate Alliance can save the day!*

>* Disclaimer: Disparate Alliance does not contain crocodile worshipping cannibals, proud Israeli mystics or tranny demon worshippers, on account of Phil wanting to pretend he was always a virtuous champion of key political issues, especially 20 years ago before it was cool.

>>54929872
>resonance
That's Nimbus
>paradigm
Order and Path Tools and ShadowName Yantras
That's right Awaken does Ascension better than Ascension.

Anyways. I dropped that game after it turned out everyone were lazy shits for brains. Always taking ooc shit IC and IC shit ooc. Heaven forbid we could be fucking grown ups about a fucking game, or I'd get a chance to play sometimes. Fuckers don't need a fucking GM to play fucking House.

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>>54929473
>Knickerbocker Glory
Holy fucking shit, is that a real thing? A real thing that you call a kind of ice cream? I'm sorry, I'm sure you've painted a beautiful metaphor but I can't get past the fucking "Knickerbocker Glory." Literally laughed so hard I fucking cried. "Knickerbocker Glory", holy shit.

I am having trouble learning the rules to casting in Awakening. How do you know the standard duration, cast time and potency of a spell? Also can spells be dodged since the section on aimed spell says it travels as a beam of light etc?

>>54930351
A well informed Anon (who may or may not be DaveB) will answer you shortly.

>>54930351
There's a spell casting index in the back of the book

>>54930084
>>54929872
Actual don't forget about other types of Yandras. Such as Sacrament, Hand Signs, the idea of ritual time being a thing. That's right, you could always op to take 3 hours to perform some heavy duty shit magic when you had time to prepare for an encounter.

If you want some creativity you can actually take anything and make it into a Yandra. Tapping on Wood, that can be a Yandra for a Mind effect to keep a subject walking passed you. A knife, well that can be attuned to it's spirit by ritualistically stabbing a picture of somebody you mean to stab. You don't need katanas and trench-coats. The possibilities are endless.

At the core of the Ascension game's mage was the Will-to-Power. If you believed in your magic and you were strong enough than the effect you wanted went off. The problem was that this was supposedly an unknown element to the Mage character themselves. However most of the book heavily relies on how the spheres are arranged. There was no way to successfully separate the meta from the mechanics. Necromancy was like three fucking spheres in the weirdest combinations. And if you didn't notice, the M20 book doesn't detail just how important an Avatar supposedly is. Another concept a victim of the OldWorld meta disaster. If this divine external tulpa was so damn important, they should have made it an actually fucking stat on the sheet. Not a fucking background that nobody was going to take.

All the paradigms from Ascension are easily just fucking magical philosophies that can be practiced in both Ascension and Awakening. No really. The whole "Everything is Chaos, You just think it Makes Sense" That's easily an Acanthus on a nihilistic or existential streak. "Everything is Data," yeah there's a Legacy that has totally devoted their magical style to using modern programming and reality hacking.

>>54930084
>That's Nimbus
Also literally Resonance
.>Order and Path Tools and ShadowName Yantras
And Legacies.

>>54930351
Potency is determined by the number of successes you get, iirc.

>>54930351
At gnosis 1, with a Spell with the Primary Factor being Potency

Defaults
Casting Time: 3 hours
Range: Touch/Self
Potency: Arcanum dots
Duration: 1 turn
Scale: One subject OR Arm's reach from central focus of spell

>>54925751
>As a Awakening fan: Cool!
>As a Forsaken fan: DDDDDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEE

>>54930601
>>54930400
Thanks I am still a little confused but this helps.

>>54930084
>Order and Path Tools and ShadowName Yantras
>That's right Awaken does Ascension better than Ascension.

No anon, order and path tool doesnt let me say to a player "NO, YOUR WICCAN WITCH CANNOT TURN OFF GRAVITY!"

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>>54930695
I think it can

>>54930601
So what you are telling me it takes fucking three hours to tell how someone died and you have to touch the body? Mage is a fucking joke

>>54930695
BUT IT SAYS IN THE BOOK THAT I HAVE THE FORCES TO DO IT. PAGE 4XX I BROUGHT THE DOTS FROM XP!!! STOP WITH THE NO FUN SHIT, ANON!!!

>>54930737
Weak mages are weak. Get Gud

>>54930737
Just spend your free reach and make it instant.

But ritual casting has a few benefits. That's why it is the standard.

>>54930431
>the idea of ritual time being a thing. That's right, you could always op to take 3 hours to perform some heavy duty shit magic when you had time to prepare for an encounter.

Yeah i dont like that. Hate when players stay in their safe houses masturbating furiously until they cast a uber spell. I prefer them on site throwing hexes and or fireballs.

>>54930084
>That's Nimbus

Yeah no, nimbus is choosen by the player. Resonance is the morality stat of Old Mage.

You wanna be a saddistic mage? Cool, you will get a pain resonance and all your spells will inflict searing pain......good luck healing yourself!

>>54930740
>BUT IT SAYS IN THE BOOK THAT I HAVE THE FORCES TO DO IT. PAGE 4XX I BROUGHT THE DOTS FROM XP!!! STOP WITH THE NO FUN SHIT, ANON!!!

Okay anon but i told you before the game started that i was gonna enforce paradigm with a iron fisting fist. You wanted to play a wiccan witch? Then play a fucking wiccan witch, throw fire, hexes or the black plague like all the other verbena in the corner.

>>54930737
You can allocate your free Reach to Instant Casting, and then incorporate Yantras into the casting if you want the spell to be more potent, although that will up the casting time.

>>54930772
This is why Awakening is superior. All the dickbags play Ascension.

>>54930772
>Yeah i dont like that. Hate when players stay in their safe houses masturbating furiously until they cast a uber spell. I prefer them on site throwing hexes and or fireballs.

I'll give it to you that can be annoying, but sympathetic magic does have it limits.

>Resonance is the morality stat of Old Mage.

But I thought Paradox was the morality stat. Point out in the where it does that.

>>54927672
Neither.

>>54930819
Tell me what the limits are because to be honest only needing two dots in space and two dots in life allows me to stop someone's heart from beating from the safety of my living room on the otherside of the planet seems kind of bullshit

>>54930819
>But I thought Paradox was the morality stat. Point out in the where it does that.

No place really but think about it. Resonance affect your magic by the way you use it. Its neither good or bad.

Sadistic mage will get a entropic resonance of pain. That means all his spells will cause searing pain which is good when he cast offensive magic and bad when he cast healing magic. Its a direct reflection of the choices he has made so far.

Same with the Fire mage, good on his fireball but horrible when he has wanna freeze things. Etc etc.

I prefer it way more than wisdom because it better done. It subtle and is not "being bad = worse character mechanically" but instead your choices mold your magic whether you want it or not.

>>54930876
If you barely know them, or just have like a picture of them, the withstand on that will be pretty high, making or dumb to succeed at.

>>54930891
Dude that is fucking stupid and doesn't make a lick of sense. In awakening magic works by imagining what you want to do and it happens. Ascension you don't have any control over your magic and makes you seem retarded.

>>54930601
If you have a higher gnosis does the standard ritual casting time goes down?

>>54930084
>Always taking ooc shit IC and IC shit ooc. Heaven forbid we could be fucking grown ups about a fucking game, or I'd get a chance to play sometimes. Fuckers don't need a fucking GM to play fucking House.

This is every average WoD game, new and old. The fanbases of these games suck and you're lucky to find a group that isn't a bunch a buttmad sissys.

>>54930876
Okay well.
In order to use sympathetic magic you must use a reach to cast at sensory range. You must always use a sympathetic Yantra that has a connection to the subject of your spell casting. Used in this way, the Yantra will not grant you a bonus to spell casting. The spell is withstood by the weakness of the sympathetic link. Weak links have high Withstand ratings like 3, and that's before dealing with the subject's withstand ratings.

>>54930917
What do you have against the purple paradigm?

>>54930917
>Dude that is fucking stupid and doesn't make a lick of sense. In awakening magic works by imagining what you want to do and it happens. Ascension you don't have any control over your magic and makes you seem retarded.

So? I prefer the moral neutrality of the mechanic in Ascesion. I dont like magic being as safe and always perfect as Awakening.

>>54930891
This is a nice idea, I actually like it. Too bad Ascension doesn't have a system already in place to enforce this idea.

>>54930945
>Okay well.
>In order to use sympathetic magic you must use a reach to cast at sensory range. You must always use a sympathetic Yantra that has a connection to the subject of your spell casting. Used in this way, the Yantra will not grant you a bonus to spell casting. The spell is withstood by the weakness of the sympathetic link. Weak links have high Withstand ratings like 3, and that's before dealing with the subject's withstand ratings.

So that means a -3 to the roll or 3 dices to roll against? Assuming i am fresh from chargen (so a dicepool of 6) could i nullify it by chanting in atlantan (+2) and some other yantra?

>>54930966
>1ed wisdom
yeah your right. It was humanity + magic shit

>2ed Wisdom
How in control of your magic are you? You can literally assassinate the president and not take a wisdom ding.

>>54930981
>This is a nice idea, I actually like it. Too bad Ascension doesn't have a system already in place to enforce this idea.

I think it does, i learned from a Dm who ran Revised. Its maybe on the core or on the vegas book.

>>54930876
>Tell me what the limits are
Having enough Sympathy to actually make the spell work.
Getting past Withstand.
Actually getting the spell to work with only the bare minimum requirements met.

>>54930966
In 2e I think they changed up Wisdom abit so it's more dynamic sort of like what they did with Requiem.

>>54930994
what this guy said.

>>54930989
Withstand subtracts from Potency.

So to get rid of its effect completely, you need to increase Potency by an equal amount, which means effectively each point of Withstand is a -2 dice pool modifier.

>>54930932
Yes.

>>54930989
>What is withstand
The pot of a spell has to surpass the withstand of the target otherwise the spell does nothing

>>54930994
>How in control of your magic are you? You can literally assassinate the president and not take a wisdom ding.

I am pretty sure killing someone is still a sin against wisdom unless is lower or you inure yourself. Still i am not saying 2nd wasn't an improvement from 1st. But ascension Resonance is still better as morality than either.

>>54931000
I'm torn, M20 didn't solve as many problems as people think it did. I actually loved Revised setting and mechanics. I don't really know why.

>>54931027
>Something homebrewed in Ascension was better than Core

>>54930989
From char gen you can only use two yantras in spell casting. The sympathetic yantra is one (no bonus) and so that leaves you with one. Unless you dump all of your merit points to have Gnosis 3 right from the start, in which case you can use 3 yantras, so two to give you a bonus to sympathetic casting, with the one to enable it.

>>54931010
>So to get rid of its effect completely, you need to increase Potency by an equal amount, which means effectively each point of Withstand is a -2 dice pool modifier.

So starting mage would have 6 dice, the withstand would leave him at 0. Altantean chanting + 2 more yantras (assuming a gnosis 3 mage, 3 yantras is the limit) so lets say a 4 dicepool. Can you add WP to that? I always forget with mage.

>>54930601
So potency is arcanum dots plus successes or just successes? Say if I have forces 4 and shoot a lightning bolt at someone and got 2 successes would the damage/potency be 4 lethal or 6 lethal or 2 lethal?

>>54931064
Yep, point of Willpower for +3 dice.
You can also repeat the ritual interval for +1 die, up to 5 times.

>>54931031
>I actually loved Revised setting and mechanics. I don't really know why.

Revised is almost 1/3 of the size and explains magic way better.

>>54931066
Don't be insane, at base pot would be just 4

>>54931079
It does. I have torn copy in my library. and it's so simple. Home rule a sliding sux scale and it's so goo. fcukyoum20phil

>>54931066
Potency is default 1 or if it is the primary factor its default is your arcana rating. You get extra potency for each -2 dice penalty you take.

1 Success casts the spell, other successes only matter to determine Exceptional success, 3 or 5 depending on if its a praxis or not.

So in your example, if the bolt it potency primary factor you would have potency 4, you need to take dice penalties to raise it.

>>54931078
>>54931063

Okay so a gnosis 2 mage would have a dicepool of 4 with a -6 but also a 2 yantras, one of which would give no bonus because its the sympathetic one.

So the other yantra is atlantean for a +2, now his dicepool is 0. Spend WP, 3 hours of chanting and now the dicepool is back at 4. Do i got that right?

>>54931127
willpower is +3 dice his dicepool is 3

>>54931066
you can increase pot of your spell by taking an addition -2 penalty on the roll.
>Seriously go look at the spell casting index. it's very helpful

>>54931104
>>54931124
Ok thanks new to Cofd. The system seems pretty rules intensive compare to FFG star wars

>>54931127
Id you repear the ritual casting then you add another 3 hours per +1 dice, so the castint takes 6 hours. +1 per ritual casting time added to a max of +5

>>54931127
Dice pool of 3, you've only done the ritual interval once.
Do it twice, taking 6 hours, and it'll be a dice pool of 4.

Moral of the story?
Get to Gnosis 3 ASAP, it's the single best investment any starting Mage can ever make.

>>54931150
Yeh well it also doesnt have faggot speshal dice.

So moral of the story is, once mage reached gnosis 3 he can stop heart willy nilly?

>>54931195
firstly how are you stopping somebody heart with life 2? 3 is fraying.

And yes get enough sympathy and space + any arcana at 3 is able to kill somebody willy nilly.

Killing random mortals is not thee problem mages have though.

>>54931195
If you st is retarded

>>54931217

Say that i am said retarded st, what can i do?

>>54931212
>firstly how are you stopping somebody heart with life 2
Ruling, I suppose. Although I wouldn't be surprised if an ST decided you needed to be 3 or four to do it.

>>54931245
I would allow ruling to command the heart to stop but it just wont, it might cause the person to think they having a heart attack, maybe get some penalties but i think the anon thinks he can command a heart to stop and insta kill somebody with life 2. Thats not how it works other anon asking casting questions.

>>54931212
You wouldn't be able to stop somebody's heart at 2. You can slow down their heart thou for about 6 seconds or a scene. But I doubt that would kill somebody without a preexisting condition, or at least already in critical condition.

>>54931245
You can't use Ruling like that

The Practice of Ruling allows a mage to exert control over phenomena within the purview of his chosen Arcanum. It mainly concerns itself with cosmetic changes and suggestions, rather than brute force.

>>54931241
to stop mages killing people they have met briefly with a 6 hour ritual?

Not much, Ward the area, Ward & Signs spell on them?

Otherwise you are shit out of luck, those wards also just add more withstand or allow a clash, not 100% protection

>>54931291
Ruling allows you to control shit. If you can rule someone to kill themselves why can't you rule their heart to stop beating?

>>54931241
>what can i do?
To stop this guy from ritual casting to stop a guy's heart? I wouldn't do anything. I would let him do it. And then let the consequences roll in. Even the attempt on another Mage's life will bring shit raining down on you. Make sure that the other players suffer for it too, so that they're unhappy with heart-stopper McGee. If it's a Sleeper, you're on the Free Council's shit list because that Sleeper was important to some research they were doing. They bring trouble on your group through the Consilium, slandering the lot of you as a bunch of retards and maybe even getting you put on trial for violating the Precepts of Hubris and Secrecy.

A big theme of Awakening is "Don't be fucking stupid with your magic". If that guy gets pissy because there were consequences for being stupid, he's not long for my table.

>>54931325
Because that is something a person is already capable off.

Can you force your heart to stop by concentrating? NO then asking it to stop isnt going to work. Asking somebody to kill themselves ans using ruling works because they can actually do that.

>>54931265
>>54931309
Ruling literally lets you do things like make water roll uphill. That's in the Practice description. Inducing cardiac arrest would be Ruling. Not Compelling it to do something, but forcing it.

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>>54931330
>my table
Oh you are one of ""those"" story tellers

>>54931356
You're confusing Ruling with Compelling, a one dot Practice.

>>54931356
Can gravity naturally turn 90 degrees to the left?
Forces ruling can do that.

Can solid concrete be shaped without any real exertion on your part like fluid into the shape of a penis?
Matter ruling can do that.

Personally, I don't think that it's a good idea to let someone stop the heart wholesale with Life 2. But you could certainly trigger the release of every single hormone and stored chemical in their body causing all manner of problems, and possibly even death.

>>54931364
because water is able to roll uphill, its just gravity says no.

Asking your heart to stop could be ruling, but it would be for a short time, cause alot of pain blah blah but insta kill somebody? Nope.

>>54925552

Why on earth would I have that?

>>54931325
You literally need at least Mind 3 to force somebody to murder themselves using Physic Domination. That +2 reach is the gatekeeper.

>>54931356
What this guy >>54931364 said

>>54931393
Mind 2 mate, you can over reach

>>54931377
...It's literally my table. At my house. Where we play and I usually but not always ST. And yes I reserve the right to kick problem players out of my house if they keep on being a problem.

>>54931393
You are an idiot.
Your reach is not limited to what is free, you can risk Paradox easily at lower Gnosis ratings.

>>54931393
No you don't. You would just be risking more paradox of course

>>54931393
>Not eating the paradox to be a shit lord

>>54931390
And a heart is able to stop. You also aren't "asking". You're Ruling. Cardiac arrest (a stopped heart) isn't an insta-kill anyway. CPR is a thing.

>>54931408
>plays mage, thinks killing hobos with space + arcana is a problem

>>54931390
So what is to stop me from just ruling that your heart will beat once a hour or 100 times per minute

>>54931432
whatever, if you are letting life 2 insta kill people or "insta drop" them till they get cpr then you are a retard. Simples.

>>54931440
Being mad when there are consequences for it is the problem.

>>54931432
Duration is a thing. The heart would restart after the spell expires.

>>54931454
How would I be a retard? It's not like it's an OP thing to do. In fact it's more trouble than it's worth when you're literally just an Apprentice.

>>54931454
Why are you getting mad at me? I didn't make the rules take it up with Komodo Dave. Plus I don't see you complaining about kinetic shield making you immune to all physical damage including getting hit by an asteroid

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We're complaining about how easy it is for a mage to stop a person's heart now?

Gee wiz, fellas.

>>54931377
But it is his table. He's running the game you asshat. He's putting in the time and effort for your entertainment you entitled douche.

>>54931454
Dude you are the retard for thinking something is overpowered because it's only two dots. Dave specifically designed mage so that arbitrary restrictions and gate keeping are no longer a thing

>>54931504
Wouldn't really be easy in the outlined scenario. Possible, sure. But not easy.

>>54931535
Sympathetic range, matey.

Ruling spells grant fuller control over phenomena than a
mere Compelling spell. Water can be made to flow uphill
or into unnatural shapes (Matter), animals (or even human
beings) can be commanded (Life or Mind), or time can be
momentarily made to accelerate or slow down (Time). A
Ruling spell can’t fundamentally alter its target’s abilities:
Water can be directed, but not turned solid or gaseous.
Time can be altered, but not overwritten. An animal can
be commanded, but not made stronger or fiercer.

Fraying spells degrade things, weakening them and
enhancing their flaws. Fraying spells can weaken targets
under the Arcanum’s purview: damping a fire (Forces),
sapping Strength (Life), or eroding the barrier between
worlds (Death, Spirit, or others, depending on the worlds
in question). They can also directly attack targets using the
energies of the Arcanum: inflicting damage via the chill
of the grave (Death), psychic overload (Mind), or a blast
of electricity (Forces). Damage inflicted by a direct-attack
Fraying spell is always bashing.

HeartAttack = At least a weakening effect which at least puts it under fraying effect. Because Ruling is simply too vague but Fraying states it clearing, that it is the weakening practice.

>>54931492
The practices are there for a reason. bypassing them by saying "im ruling" somebody to death when actual damaging something starts at fraying.

Ive never said you couldnt rule a heart to stop, im saying it'll come over as other things than the guy drops dead, he'll feel faint, he'll think he is having a heart attack, he might fall over, blah blah all caused by his heart stopping. Commanding somebody to walk in front of a bus is fine, the spell isnt causing the damage the bus is.

>>54931492
It doesn't make you immune. Mage Armor: Forces Shield grants your Forces rating in general Armor against damage.

>>54931559
fuck not this again

a shielding practice spell called "kinetic shield" created by creative thaum will make you immune, go read the practices and creative thaum

its not mage armor you fucking mongo, its a shielding spell

>>54931559
He's not talking about Mage Armor, you monkey.

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>>54931408
>>54931512
Anybody that doesn't suck story teller dick or stands up to a story teller trying to ruin your fun because you are a tyrant that can't handle players not following your ""masteryfully"" crafted narratives are now problem players

>>54931586
or are you a problem ST?

>>54931548
Inflicting direct damage to a heart would be Fraying. Forcing it to just stop would be Ruling.

>>54931577
>Having a magical seat belt
but for what reason?

>>54931550
Fraying would be a spell that damages the heart. Slowing it down enough that it stops is ruling not fraying

>>54931582
>>54931577
Wouldn't said shield just cause a clash with whatever is trying to get through it?

>>54931595
>Presented with rules
>Continues to be this retarded

>>54931595
Im gonna use forces 2 to force water up your fucking ass to kill you now.

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Have there been any more Hunter books announced? It's the only splat aside from Changeling I enjoy

>>54931586
What's tyrannical about adapting to your actions and providing conflict and consequences for you to deal with? An ST is a storyteller, somebody there to tell you a story, not be a passive vehicle for your murder fantasies.

>>54931624
No. It depends on the attacker though.

The immunity also only goes up to Aggravated. At which point it's reduced by its Potency.

>>54931624
fuck off troll

>>54931630
You do that.

>>54931586
I have no idea what you're talking about. All my storytellers are actually my friends. It's not sucking their cock to appreciate the effort they go through to adjudicate my nonsense. They tell my story because I'm the one acting in their narrative. Because I've done the ST work for them, I understand that reality. I have no idea what's wrong with your group.

>>54931624
Only if it's a supernatural attack.

>The immunity also only goes up to Aggravated. At which point it's reduced by its Potency.
Not an actual rule of Shielding, just something listed in a spell example.

>>54931627
So you are describing yourself?
>>54931630
Controlling water is matter dumbass.

>>54931630
That would be Shaping, a Matter spell, and it would be a pleasant enema.

>>54931627
A spell doesn't automatically become a Fraying spell just because it's harmful.

>>54931654
He's a self-entitled murderhobo or a troll.

>>54931669
Why are you breaking the system? Magical Practices are what Awakening magic is built on.....

>>54931630
What a dipshit. If you wanted to kill with forces 2 just keep a pocket lighter on you and rule the fire from it to burn a bitch up

>>54931638
None to my knowledge. 2e is in development but last I checked the most recent thing we got is Mortal Remains

>>54931667
>>54931669
I mean, Forces controls movement and gravity, you could easily justify it moving water.

If water had come out of your ass, we could also probably get it back in there with time.

With enough dots in space, we could just teleport the water from outside to inside your ass.

Creative use of the arcana is sort of a key part of mage.

>>54931669
They're looking at Ruling damage as the outcome if its relevant results.

Mind 2 - Force somebody to get hit by a bus. The bus does the damage, not the spell.
Life 2 - Stop a heart. The body reacts accordingly.

>>54931695
Yes and that is quicker than making somebody have a heart attack isnt it?

>>54931686
Are you pretending to be retarded?

Why are we discussing how a wizard puts water into an ass?

>>54931724
Spirit can make a water spirit go inside a mages ass right?

>>54931724
Colon cleanliness, constantly considered crucial.

>>54931458
The problem is more the feeling that every single sleeper targeted by your players would later be found to be super-important to some uber-powerful person, organisation, the fucking Exarchs, archmages, etc. Every. Single. One of them. Just a feeling you gave from your post.

Consequences, small or dire, should always be encouraged, but not letting them get away with some shit actively undermines the whole thing.

>>54931736
Fuck off

>>54931741
Only if you're expecting a dick in your ass, maybe.

>>54931724
Because apparently you can use Mind 2 to say "Die" to somebody and they will just die but instead of using Mind 2 you do it with Life 2 and tell their heart to stop.

>>54931707
Wouldn't stopping the Heart just give a tilt/condition?

Don't they say that about hitting people with a 2 arcana spell?

>>54926430
Do Tremere ascend as normal? And can they be created later in a Mage's career, ie, after they are in a legacy of their own?

>>54931758
So a person only gets a tilt when hit by a vehicle?

>>54931765
probably,

if they join a legacy i think that will rule out becoming a tremere, we dont know

You guys are retarded and are trying to break the system in a dumb way. I think forcing a heart to stop beating would fall under 'fundamentally altering the target's abilities'. As far as I know, there aren't living organisms today whose hearts can stop beating as part of their functionality.

Now, using Ruling to make someone hold their breath until they die of suffocation should work fine, I think.

>>54931773
What? I don't think you've logically followed that thought.

Nothing in 2 dots will hit you with a car.

But it could give you a tilt that would make it so they could compel you to walk into the street.

Whether you get hit by a car at that point is a matter of the environment.

>>54931758
It defo works better as a Tilt.

Ruling (••) spells can create most non-Persistent, mundane
Conditions. Supernatural Conditions, such as the
Soulless Condition and its sequelae or Manifestation
Conditions, generally require a Weaving (•••) spell.

page 126 Awakening 2e

So [Faint of Breath], there done. Why do Anons have to be so crazy?

>>54931745
Sure I'll let them get away with some shit, but not murder. It's also unlikely that Exarchs or Archmages would care about a random Sleeper. The Free Council likely would, concerned with Sleepers as they are. I also don't consider making them stop and think "Should I REALLY murder this helpless Sleeper with my phenomenal powers?" to be a bad thing. Mage isn't a power fantasy game. It's a game with the consequences of power and how you use it as central themes. I'm not going to ignore that. You consistently target Sleepers, you're going to catch shit for it for a variety of reasons.

>>54931815
You're missing the point.

The damage is done as a by-product of the spell's usage.
>get hit by a bus after a mage mind controls you
>body kills itself after you're forced to suffer a heart attack

>>54931757
>Mind 2
You're commanding them to commit suicide not literally killing their mind

>>54931793
Ruling doesn't care about what something can naturally do.

>>54930333
Yes, it's the primitive precursor to a sundae. Essentially it was when a British cook, or one in the colonies, shovelled everything vaguely sweet into a tall glass with a spoon.

>>54931837
Those aren't the same.
You're also actually a retard, or a bad troll.
That is all.

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>trying to add logic to magic

>>54931793
Can't hold your breath if you're passed out
>Holds breath until he passes out
>Passes out
>Breaths normally again

>>54931849
Looking at it from a more symbolic perspective (the perspective magic operates on) it's an entirely different beast, and altering the thing that universally keeps a living thing living to make it stop doing so would be a fundamental alteration of abilities at my table.

>>54930811
>All the dickbags play Ascension.

No-one playing Awakening has a scrotum or testicles, you heard it here first, folks.

>>54931865
Nah, they're effectively the same. The body handles it like a chain reaction.

>>54931877
That's your prerogative.

>>54931849
Ruling is about small, basic feats of magic. It can suggest rather than force. It's the middle ground between the Practice of Compelling and the Practice of Weaving/Fraying/Perfecting. The middle ground can be hard to distinguish. But stopping a Heart does not sound like a small, basic feat of magic. Doesn't past the smell test.

>>54931902
Neither does mind control, but look at that, two dots.

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>>54931913
>Mind is the same thing as Life
Hey guys look at the illiterate

Don't make a new thread

This plague needs to die out

>>54931902
>Ruling is about small, basic feats of magic
No, it's not. Ruling can make a heart stop. A heart can stop naturally. It's definitely something it is able to do. A person can't make their own heart stop, but water can't make itself go uphill either, can it? And Weaving is way beyond making a heart stop.

>>54931953
>he thinks stopping someone's heart is more impressive than mentally dominating them

two dots

>>54931913
Mind control isn't the same as forcing a heart to stop beating.Using symbolic logic, a heart is something that beats. It beats at different rates depending on the situation, but if it functions as it's supposed to it is going to beat. You can't rule it stop. Speed up or slow down certainly but not stop

>>54931963
yes your ball sack are two small dots that no one wants to see. Please stop flashing them around that is a crime and is unseemly

>>54931955
From my perspective, the symbolic differences between stopping a thing whose sole purpose is to beat from beating and adjusting the direction that the thing that flows, flows, are not at all similar.

I get that you disagree. We have fundamentally incompatible perspectives. This discussion is not going to go anywhere.

>>54931966
And how is that any different from stopping a person from doing their daily routine and forcing them to run into an ice cream truck?

>>54931913
You're missing the point. If a person is already tired and watching monitors, his mind is already starting to slip into tiredness/sleepiness. Using a simple Compelling Practice, you could convince the subject to close their eyes for a few seconds just to catch a small wink of sleep. It's about the spectrum these various Practices fall into. Greater feats of magic call on greater Practices.

>>54931955
The body actually doesn't want its Heart to stop. Naturally it wants to reach status quo. Keep that heart beating, keep those neurons firing. The Life Pattern is a complex thing that is in constant motion but is always attempting to balance itself.

>>54931986
A lock's purpose isn't to decay, but Ruling can still make it do so and it's something that can happen naturally. You can manipulate things outside of their "purpose".

>>54932015
But if you're manipulating the matter in it, the materials it is made of are always decaying, and therefore it can be made to decay.

>>54932015
No ruling to could it open or close, but not fucking decay or rust you fucking tugnugget. Is decaying a intrinsic property of locks that they have control over ?

Also someone was complaining about the admonitions against playing Nephandi? That's always been there. ALWAYS. Apocalypse did the same thing with BSD's.

>>54926144
The rich bastard book was actually supposed to be a 2nd ed supplement. Before Phil could do it, they handed the line to Heinig.

>>54928745
You have no idea what you're talking about. Paradigm and style are still there but systematized. This is actually one of the few, FEW good parts of a book that's basically just a list of hacks for Ascension revised.

>>54930917
Yes you do.

>>54930431
You always took avatar. ALWAYS. It's what let you spend quint without tass.

>Awakening
>not a dickbag
Lack of self awareness in a nutshell.

>>54932015
A life pattern is infinitely more complex than a lock my friend not to mention that a decaying doesn't go against a locks symbolic purpose

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>>54932031
>>54932034
Nice to see that you two have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm still trying to figure out just what it was people think Brucatto did to ascension.

>>54932045
Can you give me a source for this symbolic purpose stuff you keep spouting?

>>54932056
Why would you link me when I agreed that it could decay at 2 dots?

>>54932056
thats ruling death you fucking asshole, use matter ruling and tell a lock to decay and it will say "wtf i cant do that"? You couldnt use a ruling Matter spell to cause a lock to decay.

Are you really this retarded?

>>54932066
Er, Awakening.

>>54932067
Tone down the hostility please

>>54932100

>>54932080
Did I say it was a Matter spell?

>>54932091
That's not hostile, and you're a complete faggot if you think it is. For 4chan, it's downright polite.

>>54932107
I think you said "Please fuck my mage boypusie" But I anit a faggot so I didn't listen

>>54932107
If there is a different between using ruling to command a object to decay and using death to command death to decay an object.

Then there is a difference between using life to command a heart to stop and using mind to command then to walk in front of a bus

thats the whole point of this argument you fucking mongo

>>54931698
That sucks. 2e seems like it'll never come. I just hope there's still benedictions, playing a holy man killing vampires with Jesus powers never gets old.

>>54932216
> Favorite endowment is benedictions

You have good taste. Most of the time I run them as general purpose faith powers if people want to play holy Hunters without being tied to the Malleus Malfecarium.

I have a feeling that benedictions are staying in. It'd be pretty crazy to just kill a major Hunter archetype like that.

>>54930935
That's why you convert newbies instead of corralling grognards, bro.

>>54932495
WoD: Pyramid schemes.

>>54932040
>You have no idea what you're talking about. Paradigm and style are still there but systematized. This is actually one of the few, FEW good parts of a book

No, it isn't.

3 Virtual Adepts in Revised do a Ritual. How? Trinary computers, hacking reality, AI familiars.

3 Virtual Adepts in M20 do a Ritual. How? One does Yoga. Another smokes a large joint. The third does martial arts because "Gods and Monsters", which I guess means Lana Del Rey is magical now.

M20 has no concept of paradigm, Phil is explicit when he says it was to limit real-world Magickal workings. What replaces it is an incoherent attempt to ripe off Yantras.

Also, I'd like you to show me the admonitions against BSD's in Apocalypse, page number and book. I personally have a copy of Freak Legion that has an in-depth chapter on how to run an all-Fomori campaign.

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>>54932561
>I personally have a copy of Freak Legion that has an in-depth chapter on how to run an all-Fomori campaign.
I also have that book. 10/10 best powers.

>>54932700
Alternate book title: "Oh god, what the fuck: And other amazing tales".

Best place to ask. Vampire: masquerade - Bloodlines. Best all inclusive mod package for the old warhorse?

>>54932700
And "people" have the audacity to claim that Apocalypse is better than forsaken