EDH/Commander General

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>Tiehana, Voice of Thunder
>Legendary Creature - Merfolk
>Tiehana, Voice of Thunder's power and toughness are equal to the number of cards in your hand.
>You have no maximum hand size.
>When Tiehana enters the battlefield, draw a card for each creature you control.
This thing is going to be busted as fuck in EDH. Probably Bant for color identity given the other legends in the set. I NEED IT.

>>54132350
>Thread Question:
>If you could take one card off the reserved list for EDH, what would it be?
Gaea's Cradle, the thing is ludicrously overpriced and insanely powerful. It should be banned or reprinted. It's the only legal card in it's tier.

>>54132350

>Discord link

Good job OP

>>54132350
>off the reserved list
Do you actually mean the reserve list or do you mean the banlist?

>>54132350
>If you could take one card off the reserved list for EDH, what would it be?
Easily The Abyss, it would have been so sweet to have in the Breya precon, even if it would have been impossible to get the precon with people scalping it for copies.
>>54132410
It's my opinion that if Cradle is legal, Academy should be as well, or vice versa and ban both.
>>54132418
This was a point of confusion, kinda odd wording.

>>54132410
>Probably Bant for color identity
Can't be. You can clearly see it's got the UG color gradient.

>>54132418
Reserve List so that it may be reprinted. Sorry for confusion.

>>54132429
>It's my opinion that if Cradle is legal, Academy should be as well, or vice versa and ban both.
Agreed 100%. It's really hard to build a deck with G in it and not use Cradle. But I do NOT want to shell out 160 cheeseburgers for a fucking land.

>>54132432
If that's true, it only makes it more playable and more busted.

>>54132439
Ah. "Reserved list for EDH" just made it sound weird.

I feel like Chains of Mephistopheles being readily available could do interesting things to the format.

>>54132487
Honestly they should just reprint the entirety of Legends, so many sweet stax and prison cards to shove down the UGx players throats.

Is there a way to build a Saskia deck without going through the basic infect route? I wanted to build around her since she got spoiled but I didn't want to make infect (didn't want to get focused). I was thinking using combat tricks as the main theme.

Can fetch lands fetch original dual lands? Someone owes me money and I want to buy a Savannah for my bant deck.

>>54132593
Yes. That's half the appeal of ABR lands.

>>54132602
Sweet. Thanks anon. Also I'm surprised Savannah is $90. I take it G/W isn't popular in Legacy/Vintage?

>>54132604
Any lands without blue and black are not popular in Legacy.

>>54132613
I see. Sucks the other two lands I could use are $200+ than since they've both got blue. I'm working on a Rafiq deck at the moment.

>>54132604
You think that's bad? Scrubland is like $60. Feels good to be an Orzhov lover.

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>tfw got every dual but a Volcanic back in 2007
>look at the price to get one now

>>54132536
She's good at handling an equipment deck.

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>>54132536
Damage doublers go 0 to 10 real fucking quick.

>>54132631
Damn man I'm jealous.

>>54132664
Ah yes, Gisela. Timmy's favorite Boros Commander.

>>54132626
While almost all 2+ color decks appreciate duals, green (non landfall) decks typically need them the least thanks to Green's ability to search out lands.

>>54132705
Can you search them up with Kodama's Reach and Cultivate?

>>54132686
>Gisela
>not Anya

What happenes if my opponent cast Blood Moon and I have Prismatic Omen? What happens to my non-basic lands? And what about Chromatic Lantern?

>>54132718
No, but Farseek, Nature's Lore, and Skyshroud Claim can get duals and shocks.

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>>54132718
Most green ramp spells specify basic lands, but some look for forests or any lands

>>54132731
Prismatic Omen will override Blood Moon since it's in addition to other types, and you'll be able to tap for any color. Chromatic Lantern will mean that even though they're Mountains they'll be able to tap for any color. Keep in mind that they're still non-basic, and Back to Basics will still lock them down.

>>54132613
MAVERICK 4 LYF FUK THA H8RS

>>54132731
I believe they become basic mountains that can tap for any color in the instance of Chromatic Lantern. For Prismatic Omen, I think both effects are on the same layer so whichever came into play second would be the one that takes precedent but I'm not super confident about layer rulings.

>>54132806
Ignore the second part. This anon
>>54132800 is right.

>>54132831
But I phrased it poorly. It's because Prismatic Omen hits all lands, including the non-basic Mountains.

>>54132631
How much is a revised Plateau? Where donI go to get vintage cards?

>>54132966
Use a site like Cardkingdom and NOT ebay for vintage dual lands.

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>>54132800
Not quite. Both Prismatic Omen and Blood Moon's effect are applied in layer 4-- type-changing effects. Because neither Prismatic Omen nor Blood Moon's effects are dependent on another we can ignore dependency issues and apply the effects in time-stamp order.

If Blood Moon entered first, then Prismatic Omen, we would apply Blood Moon's effect first, making all non-basic lands mountains. Finally Prismatic Omen would make all lands every basic land type in addition to their other types, capable of tapping for any color of mana.

If Prismatic Omen entered first, with Blood Moon second, then we would apply Prismatic Omen's effect making all lands every basic land type, but non-basics will still remain non-basic. Then Blood Moon would make all non-basics just mountains.

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>>54132981

>Cardkingdom
>Ever

The website that makes SCG look reasonable

>>54132981
>>54132999
So how much for a revised Plateau?

>>54132981
>and NOT ebay
I use ebay all the fucking time for reserved list cards. What's wrong with it?

>>54133034
$58 on TCGplayer for near mint

>>54133042
I just don't trust ebay when it comes to vintage stuff

>>54132981
i like card kingdom but i wouldnt go there for old vintage stuff. there markup is way too high

>>54133047
>$58 on TCGplayer for near mint

huh, you can actually get lightly and moderately played ones for pretty cheap. might be worth picking one or two up

What experience fo some of you have with block/plane constructed edh decks?

I'm putting finishing touches on an Amonkhet Hapatra deck and it's pretty decent so far.

>>54133047
I think you just need to be careful. Look at the listing in detail, Look at the seller's history, and other things. Then again, I've mostly bought bulk rares and commons over ebay, so I'm not nearly as qualified to speak as some of you other guys.

>>54133071

That sounds terribly boring.

>>54133078
True. I've just seen a lot of videos discussing bootleg P9 and Dual Lands.

>>54133071
I'll do it sometimes, but only with Ravnica.

>>54133071
at the end of the day its always just you jamming in ank to keep on theme, its like building tribal but bad

>>54133047
I buy most of my duals on ebay. It's the cheapest place to buy them and as long as you have some known real cards from a set you can compare them and make sure you didn't buy a counterfeit.

Buying from a store is simpler but the premium is huge. Ebay is going to be at least 20% cheaper for most cards.

>>54133071
Time Spiral is decent because it's a massive block and my favorite. Scion of the Ur Dragon is 5 color and the fixing is ok.

The next ones I'm brainstorming are O-Kagachi with only Kamigawa block cards or some Innistrad legend using only cards from both Innistrad blocks.

>>54133094
It's not as bad as it may seem. It has a cohesive -1/-1 counter and discard theme so it avoids being strictly "goodstuff".

I wanted to explore this deckbuilding restriction because I've been getting tired of seeing the same staples over and over again. This limits most boardwipes and degenerate combos.

>>54133042
higher chance of getting counterfeits

which begs the question, why not buy fakes right from the source?

>>54133071
I did a Jor Kadeen Mirran Resistance theme deck. It was fun but pretty bad due to boros.

>>54132800
>>54132806
Thanks.

>>54132997
Is that so? Huh.

>>54133148
Yes.

>>54133134
So uh, where can I get a super convincing counterfeit? I'm asking for a friend, yeah let's go with that.

>>54133181

>le tricky gook meme

Be gone

>>54133181
As it was said earlier, there are lots if listings for fake/proxy cards on ebay, you just need to look.

>>54133135
Best way to build Jor Kadeen?

>>54133199
Artifacts.
:^)

>>54133193
Yeah but all of those are obvious fakes, where can I get one that passes as real?
>>54133192
Fuck off, normally I'd never use fakes but the existence of the reserved list has forced my hand.

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>>54133220

>I am a poorfag, look at my excuses.

>>54133212
Which artifacts? What sort of artifact-based strats would work best here?

>>54133242
I'm not poor, I actually make 75k a year at my job. I do alright and could easily afford it. That said, a single card is not worth $200 to me. I'm sorry but that's retarded.

I'm not spending that kind of do$h on the secondary market jew because wotc refuses to reprint things because a handful of 40 year old sweaty neckbeard might ragequit the game.

>>54133242
you dont have to be poor to not want to spend hundreds of dollars on magic

>>54133220
If I wsnt to make a boros tein deck, who would thrcommander be? It doesnt reslly matter all that much but there should probs
Ably be something that has some kind dof synergy if needed. To me it seems between WR Avacyn and Iroas. Avacyn can protect your combo and also maybe boardwipe, but she seems too expensive to actually hold mana up for her for protection. Iroas gives your guys evasion but you probably don't need it if you combo off.

>>54133294
Didnt mean to reply

>>54133242
I make 103k a year and I still refuse to shovel out more than 25 cents for a single card.

It's just not worth it. I'd rather play on cockatrice or with friends who don't give a shit about proxies.

>>54133301
>I make 103k a year
sure you do bud ;)

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>>54132415
cancer.

>>54133271

>75k a year
>not poor

Bro I make 100k as a chef at Wendys. I also have a 9 inch dick and I'm 6'3

>>54133294
I play iroas in avacyn, hes probably not gunna make the next cut when i revise my decklist either. Just play avacyn.

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>>54133319

>>54133319
le ebin post /b/rother, here's your (You)

now run off down to the kitchen, mommy probably made you some chicken tendies xD

>>54133313
Get a Masters in Computer Science anon.

Can i get some suggestions on this deck? the idea is that i play everyone elses deck with a sphinx sub theme

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/sen-triplets-from-breya-precon/

>>54133319
I fail to see how this addresses my post in any way, shape, or form.

>>54133328
>I play iroas in avacyn
Literally how.

>>54133350
Most of the people here are NEET losers with no potential. They're sensitive about it.

>>54133271
40 year old neckbeards that don't buy product at that.

>>54133358
Flip Avacyn I'd assume.

>>54133383
oh they buy product, just not from wizards. wizards is so fucking stupid they are actually scared of a group that spends literally 0 money with wizards. its like wizards is allergic to money

>>54133394
>Playing the bad Avacyn
Why

>>54133358
I hit face really hard in my avacyn build, i usually can get avacyn to be a 12/12 with double strike, lifelink, death touch very easily. Sometimes the 4 mana avacyn cant take combat damage is nice but I want to play elemental mastery with anointed procession.

>>54133271
So why do you need convincing fakes?

>>54133350
He's saying you're lying on the internet.

>>54133425
Because I want to give wotc the middle finger and use a $5 counterfeit of a $200 card that looks completely authentic. I don't support the reserved list and I'll be damned if I feed any money to the people who do.

>>54133427
Why would I lie? 75k a year isn't very much. I'm not even upper middle class.

>>54133455

Oh so you are poor?

>>54133271
>Wizards wont reprint cards that are not used in Modern and are too powerful for standard

Oh man the sky is falling.

I get your point but there's almost no reason to reprint shit like black lotus because they're used in one format. It's just buttmad 20 something year olds who missed out on them that want them reprinted so badly. Sometimes you gotta eat crow and spend a bit extra on your EDH deck my man.

t. 25 year old

>>54133471
Being poor and being rich are two different things anon, I do alright and have disposable income. Nothing worth lying about.

>>54133455
>I buy bootlegs to stick it to the man

You're an absolute faggot.

>>54133475
So reprint them in commander product. That way it won't hurt other formats.

>>54133487
I haven't bought anything, anon. Yet.

>>54133455
Just stop responding to them anon. They're fishing.

Anyways, Google is your friend, just start digging around for proxy cards and eventually you'll find something convincing. Just avoid the obvious, hard to get shit, original P9 and so on.

>>54133455
>Because I want to give wotc the middle finger
your not giving wotch the middle finger though you dipshit, wotc does not have anything to do with the secondary market. they literally couldnt care less if you counterfeit because they do not sell singles

>>54133495
Commander is an ultra casual format and there's almost no reason to run original dual lands except to show off because of all the great dual lands there are now. Also those products wouldn't stay on the shelves for two seconds and you know it. You'd be paying scalpers almost the exact same prices for the cards on ebay.

>>54133514
>Also those products wouldn't stay on the shelves for two seconds and you know it.
print more then, not that hard. one would assume wotch makes a profit on commander (or any supplemental product) so if they are flying off the shelves just keep printing until they stop. you know, like how literally every single other business in the world since the beginning of time operates. they did it once with that one commander deck that had the legacy staple in it (cant remember the name) they can do it again with other cards if they wanted

>>54133514
>Commander is an ultra casual format and there's almost no reason to run original dual lands except to show off because of all the great dual lands there are now.
I don't care about duals. I care about shit like Gaea's Cradle that has no business being legal and that expensive.
>Also those products wouldn't stay on the shelves for two seconds and you know it.
Not my problem, sounds like wotc would literally be printing money so they'd better make a lot of stock if they do it. Just flood the market and everyone wins.

>>54133512
They keep the list out of misplaced loyalty to old fans and the secondary market. This in turn just gives a giant middle finger to every new player, they are supporting this system by maintaining the list.

>>54133502
Noted anon, I'll do some digging. Thanks.

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Hello my fellow n-words!

Anyone here run Nath? Really want to get into him for my not-as-competitive commander... What strats do you use?

Why is it literally every hobby these days has autists screeching about shit they don't need?

>/vr/
>REEEEE I'M BUYING A BOOTLEG LITTLE SAMSON BECAUSE TAITO WONT RE-RELEASE AN NES GAME IN 2017!

>/toy/
>REEEEEEE I'M BUYING BOOTLEG TRANSFORMERS TO STICK IT TO HASBRO

>/tg/
>REEEEEEE I'M PAYING ACTUAL MONEY INSTEAD OF PRINTING PROXIES TO STICK IT TO WOTC

I'll agree with >>54133556 but people who get upset about the Power Nine don't realize that they want them because they're rare and the moment they aren't they wont want them. It's basic ass psychology.

>>54133567
Idk, hybrid reanimator/sac value tokentown? Maybe an emphasis on hand destruction.

>>54133220
The paper crane makes its home on the plains of Youtube
Villa Zheng is the master of that house
The sun rises slowly

>>54133328
Avacyn probably is the best for boros twin, yeah

>>54133605
Because the people who pay into these hobbies bought the "all corporations are evil all the time" BS, mixed it with their reluctance to part with money and general entitlement, and now think it's their God given right not to pay for anything, and feel smug about it.

>>54133605
Because maybe sometimes hobbies represent something a person likes to do, instead of where a person dumps their money.

>>54133605
i hear some places that run legacy allow 15 proxies, otherwise no one would play it because of the deck prices.

>>54133605
I forgot the worst of all. Comic books. A hobby where companies do reprint old first appearances but people still screech how they want the originals but don't want to pay the prices.

>>54133668
MTG yes. But retro games you can play emulators for shit that cost $500 and for toys it's an absolute money sink and I say that as someone who collects Hot Toys.

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>>54133605
Like I said it isn't a prestige thing or else I would care about ABR duals. I mentioned Gaea's Cradle and it's really the perfect example.
>At cheapest it's $160 for a damaged copy on the current market
>Will never be reprinted, because of the reserved list
>Staple for every G deck
>Immensely powerful, there is no budget replacement
>Still somehow legal despite the aforementioned points being the reason things like the power 9 are banned
If they'd just ban it I would stop caring. It's the ONLY card in it's class. No other reserved list card or even regular card costs THIS much and is a staple that should be in 99.9% of decks that can use it. Prove me wrong.

(Yes I saw you agree with me, I just wanted to make this perfectly clear.)

>>54133635
Thank you anon, you have sent me on the proper path to enlightenment. May Sun Tzu smile upon you.

>>54132721
I can honestly say I have never seen Anya played, either as a commander or in the 99.

>>54133674
This is possibly the biggest issue. It's preventing Legacy from actually growing and shutting new players out of the market. Which appeals to 40 something losers who've dedicated their lives to MTG.

Someone should compare reserve/ban lists to gate keeping and demonstrate they keep minorities from playing MTG. Getting Twitter and tumblr into enough of a frenzy and Daddy Hasbro will bring the hammer down on WotC fucking quick.

>>54133770
>Someone should compare reserve/ban lists to gate keeping and demonstrate they keep minorities from playing MTG. Getting Twitter and tumblr into enough of a frenzy and Daddy Hasbro will bring the hammer down on WotC fucking quick.
My god. We can use social justice to our advantage? This is a dangerous game we are playing, anon. Let's do it.

>>54133770
A good idea. You wouldn't be able to do it logically though, which means you'll need to find a woman to do it. You should start looking anywhere but 4ch

>>54133737
>rofellos banned
>tolarian academy banned
>this is legal

Is there any reasoning behind this at all?

>>54133837
Of course my good goy--I mean boy. It's so fine young men like yourself can spend your hard earned shekels--I mean dollars on a real collectible and actually play with it! Run out there and get yourself one!

>>54133837
Artifacts have a lower average CMC than creatures and there are fewer artifact wipes than creature wipes.

>>54133896
But WotC doesn't make a penny from after market sales.

And I doubt they make enough from events to justify this shit.

If I had to guess I'd say either someone making the choices on resvere and ban lists is making bank with after market sales, or they're racist/classist and trying to keep poor/minorities out of Legacy.

>>54133422
>wanting to be stuck with monowhite
Yeah, no. At least including red gives some more options to work with

It seems like MLD induces the maximum amount of REEEEEEEEE that is possible in a game of edh.

>>54134069
I'll take MLD over graveyard exiling any day.

>>54133940
They've taken cards off the reserve list in the past, who's to say thay won't do it again?

>>54134103
No idea.

>>54134094
From what I hear, playing an Armageddon is liable to generate a chorus of autustic screeching from everyone else on the table. Has anyone's relationship with a playgroup ever been damaged from playing these sorts of cards.

>>54134135
I've had multiple ragescoops and one guy clearly avoids playing with me, unless there's no other free games

>>54134135
The problem with that is EDH is super casual, and most people playing MLD aren't competitive, they don't use them to win. They use them to slow the game down.

And given that casual EDH games of 5ish players can already take several hours, MLD can easily update that if someone doesn't have something to win the game with afterwards.

>>54134135
I've been assaulted over bounces before. And mass discard+nihil stone.

>>54134200
Greentext it anon, I need a good laugh.

>>54134196
It seems like the only way to play boros effectively is to piss everyone off with MLD and other things.

>>54134216
>I've been assaulted over bounces before. And mass discard+nihil stone

>>54134245
1/10

the reserve list is just a retarded idea to begin with and should be taken away

for every pissed off investor you would gain thousands of people buying new packs for the chance to get a gaias cradle or dual land. watc is being held hostage by an incredibly small group of people who dont even give them money, its utterly retarded

>>54134262
It's important to remember that game store owners also make money on things on the Reserve List.
I agree with you, I think the Reserve List should be done away with, but it's more than just investors, it's also the people wizards sells directly to.

>>54134262
>implying WotC employees don't have nest eggs of ABUR duals

>>54134262
I argue the pissed of investors have nothing to be angry about if/when something gets reprinted, if they're primary argument regarding the value of a card is true: said card is rare, with a limited run.

This will stay true for the OG cards even if a card is reprinted. I mean, it's not like these cards are only valuable because they're powerful and limited in supply right? Right?

>>54134278
most stores make barely any money on singles though

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>>54133422
>not playing worst Avacyn

>>54134338
Totally forgot abouth this card.

Which are the best commanders for MLD?

>>54133674
Most vintage tournaments in the US allow proxies. Never seen a legacy one do it yet.

>>54134359
Numot the Devastator

>>54134359
Keranos or Daretti

>>54134359
Tajic, Numot, Norin maybe?

>>54134338
>tfw the second ability is p sweet but fucking 5WW

>>54134361
>>54133674
If it's a sanctioned tournament for points you cannot run proxies in the traditional sense. Only tournament legal proxies are ones that a judge okays on the spot for a card damaged during the tournament. Proxies as in stand-ins for not having a card are not allowed in any sanctioned tournament. Really they aren't supposed to be in any tournament with a payout but that's not enforceable short of reporting to WOTC.

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>>54133837
Bullshit fun policing.

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>>54134338
>TFW your girlfriend doesn't like MTG and won't cosplay Avacyn for you

>>54134359
Zurgo Helmsmasher.

>>54134359
Patron of the Moon
Recur Sunder over and over again

>>54134406
>you'll never exile your girlfriend/daughter

>>54133837
Because it's not ramping hard enough, quick enough according to Sheldon.

>>54134196
It's not about being casual, but you're assuming that people playing MLD are randumb memesters that cannot intoproper thinking.
MLD is good, if it fucks everyone else over more than it does you. It doesn't even need to be immediate win afterwards, point is that you can recover from it.

>>54134468
>you're assuming that people playing MLD are randumb memesters that cannot intoproper thinking
Yes.

>>54134468
>point is that you can recover from it.
>Crucible of Worlds costs like $70
>Life from the Loam and the new Crucible on a body are both G exclusive
>you can recover from it
lol ok

>>54134514
>he didnt exile all his lands under an enchantment to draw them from exile at upkeep

>>54134514
Artifact mana. Use more than the other guys and have access to 5+ mana right after your geddon

>>54134501
Yeah, but people with casual decks can play properly and do smart moves, as competitive deck owners can do dumbshit moves and be still the cancerous chaos-person. I've seen a person with a deck worth more than half of my decks combined and the guy is still stuck on the autistic "shits and giggles"-mentality.
>>54134514
It means that you have artifact mana or mana dorks or maybe have lands in hand. It might be surprising, but at least I usually play my land of the turn after Armageddon. Besides, there's way more ways to recur lands, such as Sun Titan, which is on colour anyway, if you're playing Armageddon.

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>>54134406
>black lipstick

MUH DIIIIIIIIIIICK

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>>54134640

Got a question

Since Mycoloth's saprolings enter the battlefield in the upkeep, can they attack the same turn they enter?

>>54134720
No, they don't have haste. If they entered the battlefield during an opponent's turn, then yes, they could attack.

>>54134720
No

>>54134720
As far as I'm aware, no. They still have summoning sickness.

Otherwise I've been playing my fungus deck wrong for almost a decade.

>>54134720
No. You have to control the creature before you untap. Creature loses its summoning sickness only when you have controlled it continuously from the beginning of your turn. If an outside source gives them haste, then they can attack.

>>54133635
>Just bought a Gaea's Cradle from the nip for fucking pennies compared to a real one
I'm never paying money for an actual reserved list card again. Thanks bro.

>>54134825
How much is "fucking pennies"?

>>54134900
It's how I pay your mom.

>>54132536
I'm gonna use her for Apostles.dek but I haven't gotten far enough into the build yet to tell if it'll be anything worth talking about yet haha

>>54134900
$2.80, plus shipping of course. Dude lives in China so shipping is an extra $5, he does do combined shipping I believe though, if quality on this is perfect I will be back for a bulk order.

>>54134900
as someone whos bought chinko proxies, i highly recommend it.

usually run 2-2.50 a pop, but most of the time it depends on how many youre buying. i also believe buying sets us cheaper per card but i didnt bother with those

>>54134959
>>54134966
I'll be looking into his stock when I get off then, many thanks!

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>>54134406
>TFW your girlfriend doesn't like MTG and won't cosplay Nissa for you

>>54134385
Keranos seems like a good one. Anyone have any secret tech?

>>54135282
>wanting to bang a dumb elf Hitler

>>54135282
Trash taste tbqh.

>>54135309
Look into Blue Moon Keranos, we talked a bit about it a few threads ago.

>>54135438
Blue Moon is stax, not MLD.

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Best mono black cards

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>>54135488

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>>54135488
He makes every deck that uses B infinitely better.

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>>54135488

>>54135282
My gf actually does want to play Magic, what EDH deck would best complement the only one I currently own, Doran? Things she likes:
>fluffy animals
>things that are cheap (my deck is at most like $70, I think something similar for her would work)
What EDH deck is most fun to play against THE TREES?

>>54135565
Build her Mayael, qt elfgirl dropping big fatties is super easy and satisfying to play.

>>54134395
Sure, that doesn't change the fact that most Vintage tournaments in the US allow 10-15 proxies. Wotc got involved a year or two ago and made sure they were designated as "playtest" cards but this is how Vintage players play.

Eternal Weekend is the primary Vintage tournament that is actually sanctioned and follows the rules with all real cards.

>>54135565
Edric.

>>54134406
More or sauce

>>54135668
Type Avacyn into paheal, there's a few other pics that show a bit more.

>>54135488
Damnation, Slaughter Pact, Heroes Downfall, Black Suns Zenith, Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Reanimate

>>54135488
Not technically black but every mono black deck needs Cabal Coffers.

>>54135592
>>54135649
>suggesting stupid and worthless knife ears of all things

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>>54135488
I used to think...

>>54135809
>implying girls don't like elves

>>54135488
Grave Titan, Noxious Gearhulk, Magus of the Coffers, Nirkana Revenant, Buried Alive, Entomb, Avatar of Woe, Crypt Ghast, Necropotence, Phyrexian Arena, Bloodgift Demon, Black Market, Disciple of Bolas, Exsanguinate, Necrotic Ooze, Sorin Markov, Whip of Erebos, Yawgmoth's Will

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Dragonlord Silumgar / Lazav, Dimir Mastermind / Wrexial, the Risen Deep
Which should I use as the general of a "I play your deck instead of my own" deck? Or should I go mono-U instead with someone like Thada Adel?

>>54135958
You should go Esper with Sen Triplets

>>54135958
Just remembered that WU Daxos is also on the table.

>>54135958
Grandpa Sulimgar, or Jevala.

>>54135895
Can confirm, bitches love Nissa

>>54135992
Oh yea, I forgot they existed.
Plus that recent rules change about generating off-color mana (that I don't like and I wish they'd reverse) does kinda make them a lot better than before.

>>54135895
Yeah, because homo-men are usually appealing to girls

>>54136022
I kind of want them to reverse it too so it will be much easier to pay anus mana early on.

Pretty much the exact thing they were trying to prevent though

>>54136104
So would Kozilek be the anal commander? How good is new Kozilek, anyway?

>>54136104
They could've just said that generated off-color mana doesn't count as <> mana, but instead is "generic mana" that can only be spent on numeric costs and never <> costs, or something.

>>54135958
All three. I mean you would already include Wrexial in the 99, might as well have them all and pick one to be the face of the deck.

>>54135557
This card is fucking incredible

>>54136152
I like new Kozilek best of the colorless generals. Old Kozilek is more reliable and annihilator might be strong but it's not fun. New Kozilek has the potential to draw even more cards, rewards you for dumping your hand of fast mana, and has a fun ability that is very unique for colorless.

>>54136368
Hope of Ghirapur or bust.

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>>54136368
Post your pimped out lands.
>pic related
I bought tge very first Clash Pack just to get this promo art. Had alt art Prophet of Kruphix too, both eent into my old Kruphix deck.

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>>54135374
>>54135403
More woodland fun for me!

>>54136486
>Wanting a jungle down there
Down with the knife ears and sympathisers

Think I'm going to build Saskia after looking at a ton of threads.
>>54134953
Are we talking shadowborn apostle?

Anyone have some secret spice for mono green elves? I have a copy of the guided by nature precon in the mail today and i want to make it better.

>>54132664
you mean 5 to 10

>>54135565
>fluffy animals
>cheap

Marrow-Gnawer Rat tribal.

>>54136660
>playing a disgusting elf deck

the only answer is to burn all the elf cards so there is one less of each of those disgusting abominations in the world

>>54136660
You build ezuri. You put in elves (ones that make mana are good) and cards that let you draw cards.

Then you attack people with all those elves you got from drawing cards, using the mana from your mana elves to pump your elves.

It's not a difficult concept, but sometimes people forget the card draw.

>>54136798
Can we at least leave Eternal Witness?

>>54135958
Halfdane clone tribal with spell stealing like comandeer and treachery

>>54136581
Yeah boi we are talking the more than one and only Shadowborn Apostle

>>54133475
Isnt that exactly why the Mox Diamond cycle is banned even tho Sol Ring is on the same powerlevel if not better, because theyre like impossible to get a hand on?

Also do people really fill their ~entire~ EDH deck with 50$+ cards without being frowned upon by their playgroup as being a tryhard? I Understand people spending their money on stuff like Elesh Norn or Damnation or using their Modern deck fetchlands in their decks but if you spend more on your EDH deck than your modern deck you're retarded t bh senpai

>>54137138
>Mox Diamond

You mean Mox Pearl.

>>54137138
>even tho Sol Ring is on the same powerlevel if not better
It's not.

>>54136864
>Burn Elves
>Eternal Witness
She's human.

>>54137160
that one

>>54137138
tfw only play edh so spend more money on edh than modern by default feels bad man

>>54133567
I run a pretty meh list on Nath. My playgroup used to hate seeing him dump their hands, so I changed him up.
Now he mostly messes around with tokens and elf goodstuff, with a side of slow group discard.

>>54137174
>Moxen give +1 colored mana per turn
>Sol Ring gives +1 colorless mana the turn it's played, and +2 colorless mana every turn after

These are not the same power level how exactly?

>>54137368
>colored
>colorless
>0 cmc
>1 cmc

>>54137424
This

>>54137424
Outside of straight filtering, according to every card Wizards has made 2 colorless = 1 colored mana for costs.
The 1 mana investment means little when you can potentially use it to play more/higher cmc spells than the moxen allow.

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what is the fastes mono green commander to ramp and play big shit besides selvala

does angel of serenity act the same as fiend hunter? if I sac her before resolving first trigger it exiles permanently?

>>54137485
Azusa

>>54137502
No.
Perma-exile like Fiend Hunter only works when the two parts are two separate lines of text.
When they are the same ability, like on Banisher Priest, they don't work like that.
They specifically made them into one ability like on Banisher Priest to fix and remove that exploit, and all cards since with that kind of ability are worded like the Priest instead to prevent abuse.

>>54137502
>>54137530
Rather yes, that specific angel does.
I thought you were talking about the angel from Amonkhet in my first response, sorry.

>>54137530
Well then it's a good thing Angel of Serenity is two lines of text.

>>54137485
Mono G Omnath

>>54135565
Trostani g/w cats.

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>>54136368
>New Kozilek has the potential to draw even more cards, rewards you for dumping your hand of fast mana, and has a fun ability that is very unique for colorless.

that gives me an idea

>Damia, Sage of Stone on field
>cheat out kozilek
>just counterspell everything for free because damia refuels hand
>can use instant speed looters to further filter the correct cmc into hand

I wonder how well that would work

>>54137731
>he doesn't Enter the Infinite so he can counterspell everything
>he doesn't run out of one-drops and lose Kruphix to the fourth Path

>>54132459
>>54132429

Academy is a million times stronger than cradle. They arent on the same level just because theyre in the same cycle. Cradle is still super strong, but making it equivalent to academy is just as stupid as making serras sanctum equivalent to cradle

>>54137731
>counter everything
Because you will always get the right CMCs, right?
Why is it that everyone who plays the new Kozilek is a complete mongoloid?

>>54136927

Are there enough colors for demons? I thought they were all black and one mardu

>>54137803
I don't know what you're implying here, but Serra's Sanctum isn't nearly as good as Cradle or Academy

>>54137780
Obviously I can't do that because then they'll scoop

The trick is being strong enough to control the game subtly but not so strong that people realize they've lost and scoop

Yesterday I bounce board wiped like 6-7 times in a row and people suddenly started scooping. I was being just too greedy with my dickhead plays

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Is this a good board wipe?

>>54132350
>If you could take one card off the reserved list for EDH, what would it be?
Tropical Island, worst colors need all the help they can get!

>>54137834
I just told you, you can use instant speed looters and hand sculpting

>>54137856
That's exactly what he's implying. Academy>Cradle>Sanctum. If you say that Cradle should be banned because Academy is banned it just shows that you don't understand that Academy is much stronger. You can still argue that Cradle should be banned, but on its own merits.

>>54137901
Only if you have ways to flash it in.

>>54132350
>thread question
Márton Stromgald for sure

>>54137944
Ban cradle, free the cheery elf dude.

>>54137990
Bring back Banned As Commander, free Braids.

>>54137990
Cheery elf dude?
Leovold?
Do you have a death-wish?

>>54133737
mana drain

>>54138088
Rofellos. Baka.

>>54138088
He probably means Rofellos

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>>54138088
Leovold does not look nearly as happy.

Has Sheldon ever said what the price limit for banning is? He banned power because of it's perceived barrier to entry, and that was a over a decade ago. Power was a lot cheaper then. At this rate duals and cradle will get close to those prices, and they are definitely must haves for people in those colors, so they fulfill the other requirements for "perceived barrier to entry" I think you could get an unlimited Mox Emerald for 500ish a decade ago, probably a bit less if you searched. Is that the limit, is it lower, or has Sheldon forgot?

>>54138088
He means ROFL-ellos.
>>54137944
Agreed. Academy is absolutely strongest in each format, because artifacts are broken as fuck. Not to mention, mana rocks don't need haste and aren't tied to green.

>>54138349
The guy(s) that ban cards only ban whatever they personally don't like in their own playgroup and never think about the rest of the people everywhere else that like playing EDH.
There are reasons there's plenty of other problem cards like Paradox Engine that are allowed - someone in their playgroup plays it in a combo, and therefor they don't ban it because it would be against their personal interest to do so.

>>54138349
i think you should try to see sheldon as the man he is, a random ass dude who plays EDH in a casual group and whose opinion really doesn't matter that much

the banlist is more of a guideline than anything else. you should be houseruling to keep things fun in your personal meta, and that includes banning stupid shit like mana crypt and sol ring.

>>54137847
It's going to be pretty heavily black leaning. The other colors are mostly for support things like Impact Tremors, Bloodbond March, Edgewalker, and the like. Also some things that replace sacced non-token creatures with tokens like Sek'kuar, Deathkeeper.
The few demons will probably be utility pieces like Rune-Scarred Demon.
It's gonna be a weird mix of storm and combat or whatever else I can make out of it.

>>54132350
What tribe getting a C17 deck would you make you go
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
?

Mine's Eldrazi.

>>54138513
Cats.

>>54138426
My playgroup is huge (20+ people) we could probably never get the whole squad to agree to certain banlist changes, and that's not counting pick up games at cons or shit.

My main concern is what happens when Sheldon realizes this shit about price. Maybe he bans cradle over it, but if he does, does he also ban underground sea? If underground sea gets banned what about the rest of the cycle? Is Badlands safe because it's only like 60$?

Shit gets wierd no matter what way you look at it.

>>54138513
Horses would make me go neigh.

>>54138616
He won't do shit, as always.

>>54138513
Frogs

>>54138513
I hope that dragons will stay the only 5-colour tribe.
One faggot in my LGS was certain they all will be 5-colour, like slivers, allies and one other irrelevant tribe to go along with dragons.
Best is to have a 3, 2 and monocolour to go along with the drag queens.

>>54138616
When do you worthless faggots realize that the bans have nothing to do with the price of a card?

>>54138652
He just banned leovold and unbanned fucking PROTEAN HULK.

Sheldor is on the move and making dumb as fuck decisions. He is out of his long hibernation and on his retard rampage. Shit could get really wierd really soon

>>54138726
Eh, Leovold deserved the hammer. Hulk really deserves to be there as well though

>>54138726
I wouldn't be surprised if WotC finally just took over the commander rules. Although I'm not really convinced that would be a postitive chance since we'd probably end up with a bloated ban list instead of a lacking one.

>>54138758
I don't get why Hulk should be banned. You cast it on turn 7, swing on turn 8, and get your Craw Wurm.

>>54138758
That's the point I was trying to make, yes.

What gravehate does UR have?

Does the "Effect of card: A deck can have any number of cards named X" ability apply in EDH? I'm building a demon tribal and figured tossing in a bunch of Shadowborn Apostles as bodies/tutors wouldn't be a bad idea

>>54138806
Artifacts. Relic of Progenitus, Grafdigger's Cage, Tormod's Crypt.

>>54138708
>Creates a Perceived High Barrier to Entry. Commander is a socially welcoming format with a vast cardpool. These two traits clash when it comes to certain early Magic cards, even if they would possibly be acceptable in their game play. It's not enough that the card is simply expensive. It must also be something that would be near-universally played if available and contribute to a perception that the format is only for the Vintage audience.

Why you gotta be dumb nigga, this shit is literally in the link in the OP

>>54138821
Yes. Shadowborne Apostle and Relentless Rat override the singleton rule.

>>54138806
Burn Away, Learn from the Past

>>54138785
Fair enough. It's not like you can abuse him afterall. I doubled my basic count when I started using Hermit Druid

>>54138862
Awesome. It's a shame there aren't that many good demons, I could use the filler

>>54138840
Why do you? There's bunch of more expensive cards not banned, such as Bazaar, Diamond Valley, Moat, Tabernacle and others, but pretty much only expensive shit banlist has is the power 9.
"Perceived barrier of entry" doesn't have jack shit to do with things that get banned.

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>mfw looking at prices to create a 5 color mana base

Should I just go for the guildgate win con, triples or buy a bunch of good looking proxies?

>>54138964
>It's not enough that the card is simply expensive. It must also be something that would be near-universally played if available

>>54138983
Checks and Temples.

>>54138964
>Bazaar, Diamond Valley, Moat, Tabernacle
>>>54138840
>It's not enough that the card is simply expensive. It must also be something that would be near-universally played

Bazaar is only good in dredge, moat and tabernacle are also only good in select builds (namely ones that don't rely much on creatures, which isn't common when every deck gets a creature in their "opening hand")

I have never even seen a deck that really wants to run diamond valley, and I run sac oriented decks.

Read a book nigger

>>54139047
>he forgot about PW commanders
Laugh at this man.

My favorite tribe is temur but the only commanders In these colors are animar and riku.

They both seem like fairly expensive decks and quite popular according to edhrec. Are they degenerate commanders? Is there anyway to build them budget and improve them over time?

>>54139119
???
Animar is degenerate, Riku has a pretty steep buy in. You want Surrak Dragonclaw.

>>54138983
> 10 Checking Taplands: about 30 bucks
> 10 Shocks: about 100 bucks (painful, but ultimatley not the devil)
> 2 of each basic: Priceless
> Reflecting Pool, Command Tower, tendo, aether hub, & City of Brass: Not really that bad
> Sol Ring, Fellwar Stone, Commander's Sphere, Darksteel Ingot, Prismatic Lens, and 10 signets

It's harsh, but if you give fetches, especially enemy fetches the finger you can do it.

>>54139137
Sorry I mistyped I mean the only commanders I like in temur were those 2, surrak seems cool but just didn't speak to me as a card.

What makes animar degenerate, what cards make riku expensive?

>>54139047
>being this retarded
Diamond Valley is the best sac land that exists and Moat and Tabernacle are extremely useful in each stax deck. Bazaar is good in each graveyard based strategy.
Still Cradle is only good in a green deck that runs creatures, it's not that different. I'd rather have a land that kills my opponent's creatures or taps his mana rather than have a G for every creature I control.
How about Mishra's Factory then?
How is price of a card relevant AT ALL when it comes to banning them? Most of the banlist isn't even expensive.

>>54139224

Is diamond valley actually better than Phyrexian tower or high market?

>>54139219
Riku is much better choice. Animar is degenerate because his broken ability combined with protection from the relevant removal colours. There would be literally nothing wrong with Animar if it weren't from the protections.

>>54138983
The guildgates are not going to work well in 5-color unless you are a land deck focused on using them.

If you want to be budget then use most or all 10 triple colored tapped lands, some vivid lands, City of Brass, and Mana Confluence.

I think using the temples is too greedy in 5-color.

>>54139224
High Market is better. Diamond Valley doesn't even make mana.

It's decent but it's like Maze of Ith so it has to be considered separately.

>>54139119
>What is Intet?
>What is Surrak?
Also you can build both Animar and Riku as not cancerigenous decks.

>>54139281
Temples were a god send for 3c and I used some in Yidris without much hassle, maybe using only the ones that have the most important colors in the 5c deck?

>>54139260
High Market I would say definitely, but maybe not Phyrexian Tower. I'm thinking of getting Miren, because I can't afford Diamond Valley. Diamond Valley is in my opinion the best sac land that exist, depending on the game plan of course. For stealing strategy City of Shadows would be probably the best, obviously.

>>54139224
I recently picked up a cradle recently, and after playing with it a bit it really feels like a win-more card. Sure, you can do some crazy ramping with it, but it's useless after a wrath. It honestly doesn't seem ban worthy.
Mana Crypt on the other hand is cheaper and definitely deserves a ban.

>>54139305
>b-b-but muh colourless mana!
That shit is good even though it doesn't produce mana. Or are you arguing that Tabernacle is bad as well because it doesn't produce mana?

>>54139384
This.
I don't even understand why does everyone go apeshit over the land that usually does less in my meta than my Serra's Sanctum

>>54139405
Tabernacle is playing on an entirely different level, though. Diamond valley is JUST a sac outlet, tabernacle is a punishing control piece that can paralyze decks. Landed early (when curve matters) it doesn't have to produce mana because if you're running tabernacle it sets you ahead on tempo by setting everyone else back.

Diamond valley doesn't do that. It never improves your tempo or hurts your opponent. It just trades a creature for some life once a turn -- more life than High Market, but 90% of decks that would use it don't CARE about the life, they care about death triggers and having a creature in the 'yard. At that point, why should I not prefer High Market, that doesn't FORCE me to stumble when I use my land drop on it?

>>54139224
I'm assuming you mean Workshop rather than Factory. There are a fuckton of decks that would hate to play a Workshop.

>>54139405
>That shit is good even though it doesn't produce mana.

Yeah, but it's not really "as good" as the one that does. I'm certain that if Diamond Valley were the same price as High Market, you'd still see people playing High Market more often.

>>54139575
If you're saccing tokens or Reassembling Skeleton and friends then High Market is the better choice, but for something like Meren or Karador, High Market can actually gain enough life to make an impact. It honestly depends on the type of sac shenanigans you're doing.

>>54139579
Well, artifacts is the most relevant permanent type in each format. Cradle doesn't hold a candle to that monster.
>>54139575
While I may have exaggerated the usefulness of Diamond Valley, I still feel like it's extremely useful sac outlet, since it's much harder to remove than any nonland, but I'd prefer it to High Market because it gives much better value in grindier decks in my opinion.

>>54139702
>Well, artifacts is the most relevant permanent type in each format. Cradle doesn't hold a candle to that monster.

Yeah, but Workshop only shows up in decks that are all-in on Artifacts. It's not something that even someone using "a lot" of Artifacts will want, it only crops up once you pass the threshold of your deck being "mostly" Artifacts.

>>54139702
>I still feel like it's extremely useful sac outlet
To this, I can agree.

>>54139617
Again, I would rather be playing Miren, the Moaning Well rather than High Market, But I would still rather play Diamond Valley to Miren.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ezuri-claw-of-budget-2/?cat=price&sort=

working on a budget deck to get into paper edh with. Ive tested this deck a few times on XMage and it has worked quite well, although it is a bit slow. i dont seem to really generate board presence until at least t5, which is unfortunate if i get hated away

What cards would you guy change? Blade of selves is definitely on the chopping block, it just hasnt done much in my playtesting,

>>54139756
Yeah, but you also can say that Cradle only shows up only on decks that's all about creatures.

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>>54139771
>Again, I would rather be playing Miren, the Moaning Well rather than High Market
>Valuing life this highly over mana

>>54139803
Okay? What did you think I was arguing?

>>54139875
That Cradle is too powerful/expensive that it needs to be banned?
>>54139857
It does help much more in the long run with a grindy deck.

>>54139776
avenger of zendikar is shit

>>54140030
how? its a token factory and an army of little losers is exactly what ezuri wants

>>54140095
takes too long to get any real value out of at 7 mana

>>54139959
>That Cradle is too powerful/expensive that it needs to be banned?

I think you've conflated both different people and different discussions.

>>54140121
what would you replace it with?

Kobolds of Kher Keep reprint W H E N.

>>54140146
Eh, it was the original point of the discussion

>>54133751
I have, the deck didn't last long before the guy took it apart.

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>>54140245
N E V E R E V E R
E V E R
V E V R
E
R
E
V
E
R

seriously, can't beat the original, although it's not a token.

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>>54133199
don't, there are better options for boros voltron

>>54132536
I've shilled my Punisher Enchantress deck plenty here. The thing just throws out enchantments that either accelerate the game or punish others for playing the game. Basically, it's always dealing at least 5-6 damage to a player on their turns, plus some on my own. It frequently does so in small amounts at a time, so they don't even realize how much they're losing until I remind them they've lost 30+life from me alone. Then I chain a Last Laugh triggerfest and everyone dies.

>>54140338
Who said I was playing voltron?

>>54138183
He's one happy ro-fellow

>>54139119
http://magiccards.info/query?q=t%3A%22legendary+creature%22+c%21urgm+ci%3Aurg&v=card&s=cname

There are six options if you include Yasova Dragonclaw.

>>54132415
discord is cancer and your just shilling

I recently picked up foil versions of every single Eldrazi Titan and want to play them in the same deck, but Mono Brown seems like a terrible idea for that, considering how much good Eldrazi tribal shit there is these days.

Don't wanna go for the usual boring Karona Tribal. Any good suggestions that lend themselves nicely for playing them in the same deck?

>>54140739
Jhoira of the Ghitu.

What are some good colorless creatures to cast for free with Animar?
I already got:
Iron Myr
Silver Myr
Copper Myr
Solemn Simulacrum
Duplicant
Wurmcoil Engine
Steel Hellkite
Conduit of Ruin
Desolation Twin
Pathrazer of Ulamog
Void Winnower
It That Betrays
Artisan of Kozilek
Emmy
both Kozileks
both Ulamogs

>>54133358
New avacyn bro her backside is red

>>54140809
Blightsteel colossus.

>>54140851
I thought about using it but my faggot group set infect kills at 15 poison counters so i don't think it's worth the trouble being the only infect creature i'll put in

>>54140919
In that case darksteel colossus?

>>54140809
Oxxida, Spire, and Tangle Golems.

>>54137138
>I'm not willing to pay for good cards so others shouldnt
I'm still going to use doubling season in Atraxa, fight me.

>>54137194
>tfw only one other person around me plays commander so spending money on this format is not worth it
>tfw have so many deck ideas featuring the new legends

Suffering.

>>54141247
Indoctrinate your playgroup.

>>54140478
Alright gimme that list boi that sounds dank as fuck

>>54134640
Great, I have a new fetish now. Thanks, anon

>>54139384
>Problems with Cradle
I've had a Cradle since pulling it from a pack in Saga, and have never really found a deck that I like (so, not Ezuri Elfball) where it actually seems to work at a really high level. Threw it in Titania for flavor, and while I haven't regretted it, neither has it been really crushing.

>>54141437
what. any land that can tap for 2+ mana with almost no drawback is instantly great.

>>54140338
kalemne is shit though

>>54141674
Oh, it's good, I'm not denying that, but it's hardly the bonkers instant-win some folks like to make it out to be. At least outside of a couple decks like Ezuri (which I've been on the receiving end of) or maybe animar or something, it's on a similar level to Scorched Ruins, Ancient Tomb, or Lotus Vale. Probably a little better than any of those, but in a similar tier.

>>54141823
>>54141823
>>54141823

File: tmp_2424-Image.ashx(3)-1292619974.png (139KB, 223x311px) Image search: [Google]

139KB, 223x311px

is this card as bonkers as i think it is in edh?

i bought a playset but for now its only going in my soldier tribal deck, feels stupid good though, it feels like a stronger cultivate