/40kg/ Warhammer 40k General

>>54029716
Dumbass >>54028458

>>54029729
fml

>>54029729
If you don't link it in the thread then who is supposed to know?

>>54030318
people that check the catalogue?

tau need to be nerfed

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6th for Tyranid A Shit

>>54031249
>6 str 10 ws 2+ attacks
>M12, 14W
>can get a 5++
> 200pts
uh huh

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so, i hope you realise what's going to happen to old named space marine characters when the chadmarines arrive to overhaul their faction

>>54029716
Why does FW suck at everything involving rules?

>>54031360
Everyone of them gets killed off before then?

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Hey I'm a new player and I just got start with the Tzeentch daemons start collecting box. Can anyone help me understand how the chariot works with its blue horrors wargear option? blue horrors arent mentioned anywhere but in the units section so I'm pretty lost.

>>54031372
>expecting artists who snort resin dust all day to be competent rules writers

Toppest of keks

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https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/06/18/making-the-case-for-using-power-level-points-in-tournaments/

>Power Levels allow players to choose each game what those units will and won’t have. By freeing the players from the confines of the minutiae of a detailed item by item list, we introduce a more flexible and therefore competitive environment. Allowing players to use the best weapons options on their units for the given game they are playing will move us away from list building being one of the most important parts of the game and move towards player skill and choices in game being the most important.

Do you agree?

>>54031383

If your army includes a Burning Chariot and Blue Horrors, your opponent must subtract 1 from any Psychic Tests made within 9" of either the Burning Chariot or the Blue Horrors.

>>54031393
Makes the game pay2win as fuck.

>>54031383
It looks like you can make it form a unit rather than a single model. You pay the points for the horrors if you want them.

I was reluctant about primaris, so Im covenrting them as deathwatch guards for my Inquisitor by simply changing their heads.
The result is incredibly better.
I guess im just too much of a nostalgiafag fpor old beakies/skullfaces.

>>54031402
How is it pay to win? All the options for your model are included in the box.

Do you know what "pay2win" even means?

>>54031409

Got pics? Haven't seen any head swaps with beakies, it didn't look like they'd fit from the few conversions we've seen online.

>>54031393
as someone that enjoys the convenience of Power Levels once in a while i find their argument dumb as balls

>>54031422
All the options very much aren't

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>>54031402
>This creates a tactical/strategic flexibility in the game that is more akin to what you find in Magic the Gathering and in Warmahordes where each player is allowed a sideboard of a certain number of points so their list can be tailored game-to-game to help mitigate the rock/paper/scissors syndrome. For quite some time, the 40k community has discussed how to mitigate the hard-counter nature of competitive lists, and GW has given us one.

But are power points as a soft-sideboard better for the game? Or should people just make all-comers lists and get stomped by the first specialist army they run into?

>>54031393
>>54031393
It may nboit be too bad.
That, or a complete clusterfuck.
I like the idea you choose the miniatures on their strategic value(aka you have a tactical value on taking different kataphron breachers instead of simply the strongest one point/value).

Or, again, it may end horribly.
Only time will tell.
>>54031424
Ill make pics later, so far I tried only with skullfaces and they look a lot better ihmo.

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>>54031402

Pay to win? What?

Power levels means all the wargear in the squad is 'free'. You still pay for a unit as much as the next guy.

How is that Pay2Win?

>>54031400
Its just that the model comes with 3 blues that go on the chariot. So do they add wounds to the chariot? Can they be targeted/die?
But yeah thanks for explaining
>your opponent must subtract 1 from any Psychic Tests made within 9" of either the Burning Chariot or the Blue Horrors.
This part.

>>54031407
Most Chaos Daemons are list as having wargear already paid for actually.

>>54031393
Sounds like a bunch of bullshit.
Some armies really cheese out power, while others get fucked in it, by respect of having next to zero options.
And I hated playing people who look at an army, and suddenly all that grav became flamers, or vis versa.

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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/27/birthday-battle-brothergw-homepage-post-4/

>This Primaris Space Marine Captain will be available to pick up or order at store anniversaries from this July.

>This captain will be available the world over, wherever there’s a Warhammer or Games Workshop store, and because these will be available for a whole year, everyone will have a chance to get their hands on one.

Also has the rules for him included apparently.

>>54031452
The person with more money can afford more options for his squads.

>>54031360
They get upgraded to Primaris versions?

Did FW not give a shit about their rules because FW won't be allowable in tournaments?

>>54031450
> it could end well
> or it could not
No shit. Why even post.

>>54031467
>the person with more money

If you can't afford a $15 of tiny magnets you shouldn't be playing 40k

>>54031465
> not fucking warhammer world exclusive
About fucking time

>>54031393
The points he makes about tournament organizing are very true.

As a TO I don't like having to check over the minutiae 32+ players lists and ensure they are all totally legal. Some people are actively trying to cheat and others are just making mistakes because they're new to 40k.

I would prefer points if GW put out an official list builder. Power is definitely easier.

My experience with power has shown me that some armies can get a lot of free upgrades (Tau) and other armies just get more models (Genestealers, Grey Knights) and others are almost exactly at the 20:1 ratio (Tyranids).

Which armies are just bad in a Power format? Deathwatch?

>>54031479
Not every kit comes with enough weapons to fit out every permutation.

>>54031452
Because if your not magnetising all your minis then you're pretty fucked in terms of options unless you buy moar bawkses of army men

>>54031467
What

>>54031393
Not even slightly, people will do nothing but cram as many points into as little power as possible. Power actively discourages experimenting with gear as anything less than the best is bad. 10 naked nobz and 10 buzzsaw kombi skorcha nobs both cost 20 power (about 400 pts) but they cost 170 and 640 pts respectively. You will see nothing but BSKS nob equivalents.

>>54031499
It does with Rubric Marines which are one of the most absurd version of power level.

10 rubric marines with vanilla aspiring sorcerer is 223 points.

10 rubric marines with max upgrades (which are on sprue) is 355

Same power level, difference of 132 points.

>>54031512
GW kits quite frequently don't come with every option you could take on them

>>54031499

Okay but name one unit that doesn't have the most powerful wargear option already in the box.

>>54031524
Its not always about most powerful. Having the flexibility to tailor your wargear as you please is very strong.

>>54031523
Such as?

I'm not shitposting, I am new to 40k and want to know more

>>54031522
and both are an overpriced turd

>>54031538

Yeah but that applies to points too. Nothing says you can't swap out units and options for an equal amount of points.

>>54031393
stupid as shit
no one will take flexible armies based on what they're facing, they'll spam the best weapons they can get for the power
even if that were true, now you have players needing to bring a shit load of different weapons, either magnetized or separate models, in order to swap things out
the notion that power level could be used for a tournament is retarded as shit, and makes me angry that GW even included them at all, there's no good reason for power level to even exist in the first place

>>54031524
A 5 man nob kit comes with 1 kombi skorcha and 1 buzzsaw. If you want 10 BSKS nobz you need to buy 10 25 euro boxes.

>>54031549
No tournament I've been to let you lets you swap and even then it would be really tricky to do so.

>>54031549
It's a lot harder to swap wargear with points, especially when some upgrades are 50+ points.

>>54031446
this issue is already largely mitigated by the changes to the core rules in 8e
get some games under your belt before you say more, hard counters don't really exist anymore

>>54031524
>>54031539
First one that come to mind is the Hive tyrant

>>54031393
It's either a massive, unplayable WYSIWYG clusterfuck or it just means that the vast majority of players get fucked over since they don't have every conceivable load-out modeled.

Power points are also significantly less balanced than true point.

>>54031539
standard guard come only with flamers and grande launchers, but they can take plasma and melta which don't come in the box

also there are no non-fw guardsmen with shotguns despite it being an option for guard vets

>>54031555
>there's no good reason for power level to even exist in the first place
If you actually believe this, you are denser than I had even dared to imagine.
Power levels were created to facilitate pick up games between new opponents that could easily encompass any model load out that was on hand.

>>54031306

Well, realistically it's 5 Ws 3+ attack, he will be attracting some serious fire.

>>54031393
> BOOOO WOOO it harder for us to check lists- it takes longer time!
Bitch you are making money off each and every ticket sold. When you are making a BUSINESS out of this shit, put in the time to hard sure the lists are legit. When i am paying what YOU ask for, for a product, I Give zero shits what you did or didn't do to produce it. You set the price.

>>54031585
*grenade

>>54031498
See
>>54031599

>>54031594
It's a crutch to save children and retards some time. Anyone who plays this game already has lists written. There's no reason for power level to exist, and it was a huge mistake to introduce it. Just look at the shitposting it's spawned here, now extrapolate that to the entire 40k community.

>>54031605

Nah, they launch shitty coffee

>>54031557
I dont know what bits sellers are: the post

>>54031573

Thee old winged Dakkatyrant build with devourers and grubs is not quite what it used to be. Losing twinlinked hurts, S6 (or 7 if you take Deathspitters) only wounding T4 on 3+ hurts, and losing all semblance of meaningful close combat ability when taking nothing but guns hurts. It's not *bad* as such; 12 S7 shots hitting on 3+ at 18" and -1AP will still tickle most units and put some hurt on lighter vehicles but it's an expensive vector for "not bad"

In general, a balanced loadout with one close combat and one ranged option looks to be the early approach on how to build a Tyrant. Adrenal Glands for advance and charge bonuses is a must, Toxin Sacs synergise nicely with Monstrous Rending Claws which are a free and effective close combat option, and a pair of Deathspitters with Slimer worms is probably the best of a bad bunch in terms of ranged options given there's no benefit in taking another melee weapon.

>>54031393
>player skill
>what unit do I shoot first the game

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threadly reminder

>>54031498

>As a TO I don't like having to check over the minutiae 32+ players lists and ensure they are all totally legal. Some people are actively trying to cheat and others are just making mistakes because they're new to 40k.

If you are doing this, you are making your life crap for no reason.

As a TO, you don't check all list.

If a player requires a list check of the opponent, you perform one.

At the end of the tournament, you list check anyone who got into a prize placement.

>>54031631
>I'll just pretend the game involves zero skill to excuse the fact that I lose all the time!
did it work? do you feel better about being bad?

>>54031612
Not everyone is a high level autist like us on /tg Anon, if you cant understand that some people can find the ease of playing power refreshing then you really are dense.

>>54031541
Bolter Rubricae aren't too bad, but Flamer Rubricae aren't durable enough for the cost. Sure, anything that gets hit by nine Warpflamers is gonna hurt, but good luck getting them all that close.

>>54031610
>i have never run a tournament in my life, but Ill shitpost about it anyway!

>>54031612
>children and retards

Oh not you again

You and your special brand of autism can objectively and factually fuck right off

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>>54031635

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>>54031612

>>54031612
I think you should die, and im not even joking.
i really think it.
Power points are amazing for everything but topurnaments, and fail only when confronting WAACs and tryhards as you, which are the cancer killing 40k.

please contemplate suicide.

>>54031617
>40k should be like MTG where only retarded noobs use the primary market and everyone else buys parts individually online
Nopenopenopenope
Tournament structure actively encouraging people to just buy buckets of parts online would be the worst thing to happen to the hobby. Bitz sellers ATM are a small business that's not for everyone, do you want gw to take a leaf out of Hasbro's book and start only including 1 of each weapon option in each kit, to "foster a healthy secondary market" where a warpflamer costs a tenner?
Seriously, imagine if every customisable elite kit was like the nob kit. Buy a 3 man crisis suit kit and get 1 flamer, 1 plasma rifle, 1 missile launcher, etc. Buy 10 rubrics and get 1 warpflamer. Oh you wanted ten? Better buy them online!
A secondary market like that fucking ruins list building. We don't need to encourage that shite. All kits should have enough parts that any configuration should be mostly possible, and any that aren't should be very expensive or impractical.

>>54031627
Its more about the fact that the hivetyrant kit it self is pretty poorly designed imo. With the flying variant you can't even do lashwhip bone sword/s and 2 devouer/deathspitter combo. Not toention it doesnt even come with the rending claws option which is pretty greatvthis edition
>new flying HT kit when?

>>54031721
this is perfect.
Power points are the patrician way to play.
never had any problem with balance so far, mostly because all player i play with aren't total assholes.

>>54031393
Their conclusions about power points being a good idea are retarded and would make competitive play even more of a nightmare. That said, their complaints about regular points are valid. The new point system is incredibly shitty and feels tacked on.

>>54031393
That would be fine if the power levels werent totally unbalanced.

>>54031452
>>54031508
>>54031479
>>54031499
>>54031522


I have 20 SM dudes with 20 of each arms magnetised for power sword, axe, thunder hammer, storm shield, plasma pistol, bolt pistol, bolt gun.

Remember, that's 160 shoulder pads too.
SW Wolf Guard can take pretty much anything on each model.

This was NOT cheap to do. If I could swap them on the fly between tournament games, it would be ridiculously in my favour.


Point lists for tournaments are much more balanced and sensible.

>>54031393
This is bullshit because it hamstrings many armies (those with specialist units with set wargear) and advantages armies with more flexible units.

Imagine - my ig command squad one game can have 4 meltas, next game have 4 flamers, next game have 4 plasmas.

If I were Eldar, if I picked Fire Dragons, I wouldn't be able to switch to Dark Reapers or Swooping hawks if I wanted to - unlike a Space Marine Dev squad which can shift from multimeltas,plasma cannons, lascannons or heavy bolters.

If they want a sideboard, then make it a fucking sideboard.

>>54031755
They are not conclusions, they are merely a series of arguments in favour of one position

Learn the difference friend

>>54031393
dumb as fuck
it does the exact opposite of providing a flexible environment as in a competitive environment there is literally no reason not to max out everything when using power levels, invalidating any lower tier option for units
power levels only work when operating under a gentlemans agreement

>>54031522
>132 points difference
That's cute.

A naked Nob mob costs around 170ish points.

Kit every single Nob out with combiweapons, cybork bodies and power klaws and the whole mob becomes around 700 points.

Same power level.

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>>54031763
>play tau
>power points in tournaments
>mfw every single model can swap its loadout on the fly
>conscripts get fried by flamer everywhere
>armour spam gets fucked by melta everywhere
>Tau are back to being kings of 8th
>mfw

>>54031792
Who run ever run a naked Nob?

>>54031772
Do you know what the summation of an argument is, shitposter-kun? A conclusion.

Shit, you couldn't even pretend to defend their bullshit.

>>54031555
>no one will take flexible armies based on what they're facing, they'll spam the best weapons they can get for the power

So, I'm a SM player with several devastator squads.

If my opponent's list has a lot of infantry, they get heavy bolters. MEQ? plasma cannons. Vehicles? Lascannons.

This makes flexible armies artificially better.

Which, we both agree on, is bad in a tournament setting.

>>54031801
Your mum ran my naked nob very nicely

>>54031746
>mostly because all player i play with aren't total assholes
this, but in tournaments power is stupid, mainly because tournament players are WAAC assholes

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>Chaos Lord on Bike
>Faction Keywords: Chaos, Nurgle, Heretic Astartes, Death Guard

>Chaos Bikers
>Faction Keywords: Chaos, Nurgle, Heretic Astartes, Death Guard

>>54031843
Wouldnt WAACfags like power more? It gives you more freedom in how you kit out your units

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>>54031800
>Play tau

>>54031846
dont get it
>tfw no more T6 bikers

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>>54031846

>>54031857
>yfw when every game the tau player swaps out his magnetised weapons for the perfect counter to whatever you are bringing
10/10 would play a power points tournament

>>54031800
>taunigger is a TTSfag
Pottery

>>54031855
If you're a true WAAC it gives you less freedom because once you dont have to pay for upgrades it only becomes acceptable to take the best upgrades.

>>54031846
Page 57, under Forces of the Death Guard.
>>54031855
Yes, power is the WAAC/dedicated tournament player preference. It rewards buying multiples of the same power units so that you can have every possible load-out modeled. A casual player will buy one of a unit, assemble it how he likes, and then buy some other unit. The casual player gets turbofucked by going to power points.

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r8. I can replace the scouts and devs with helblasters.

Friend is borrowing my Index for a few days. Anyone happen to have the datasheet for Imperial Bastion? There's one on sale at my local and Im wondering how well it would work to part in front of an Arty line.

>>54031878
Grasping at this many straws

>>54031896
They're tougher than landraiders but kinda shit because you can only put one unit+characters inside

>>54031900
That's literally what the FLG article says is supposed to happen. Are you retarded?

>>54031886
>It rewards buying multiples of the same power units so that you can have every possible load-out modeled
what the fuck are magnets?
>>54031900
what straws? or maybe the fact that you drew the short one by not playing a modular army?

>>54031383
Is it me or are chariots kinda shitty now?

>>54031801
Meatshields for your equipped guys, or now for absorbing wounds for meganobz if their battlewagon explodes

>>54031917
>what the fuck are magnets?
An added, pain-in-the-ass expense that the vast, vast majority of 40k players don't bother with.

>>54031923
slaanesh chariots are great, 16 attacks for pittance

>>54031800
Tau are already the kings of 8th anon

>>54031923
Burning Chariot is shit now, but the Tzeentch Herald on Chariot is pretty baller since he's still a Character.

Why is everyone talking about Power like you MUST be able to change your list on the fly?

What about using power but with predetermined, non-flexible equipment lists?

Imagine, if you will, having the ability to voluntarily choose between playing PPoints and Matched Play

>>54031800
>Commanders w 4 hardpoints
>Crisis Suits w 3 hardpoints

These tournaments are gonna get Vanguards up the wazoo.

>>54031957
Because that was the premise that was brought up

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Is it cheesy to stack bonuses?

Like, I have this alphastrike thing where a terminator lord, terminator sorcerer, terminators and raptors come down at the end of my movement phase.
Raptors are armed with two plasma guns and a combi-plasma so they blast something with the overcharged setting so they don't overheat.
Terminators have nearly all combi-meltas so I prescience and warptime them to go forward, blow away vehicles and then charge. They're hittings on 2s rerolling ones, getting in to combat with their chainfists hitting on 3s rerolling 1s.

I can wipe out about 3-4 units on my first turn like this but do you think this tactic is too powerful?

>>54031961
But some random article said power points are BETTER

>>54031957
Because we're talking about the system espoused by the FLG article posted earlier.

Non-flexible power level format would be even worse. Just use regular points then.

>>54031846
not a character?

>>54031937
I mean I can understand that there are retards who can't be bothered spending an extra $2-3 for some fucking magnets, but they're in the minority right?
>>54031966
commander spam is meta since its statistically better than suits for everything but flamers, though 1-2 crisis teams for flamer spam will make an appearance

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>>54031871
>>54031886
>Chaos Lord on Bike
>Faction Keywords: Chaos, Nurgle, Heretic Astartes, Fluffy Nurgle Legion

>Chaos Bikers
>Faction Keywords: Chaos, Nurgle, Heretic Astartes, Fluffy Nurgle Legion

>>54031937
Amen to that. If you expect me to magnetize a bucketload of special and heavy weapon guardsmen, I'm going to flush mself down the toilet.

>>54031973
Find the point to cram a Dark Apostle in there to re-roll all 1's and 2's with the chainfists, and you're all set.

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>>54031994

>>54031997
I actually had my heavy weapons teams magnetised. Just undid that because they look like shit that way

>>54031923
Slaaneshi ones are kind of great. The rest, yeaaah.

>>54031957
because the current topic is no power levels per se. it's power levels as espoused by this >>54031393

>>54032013
yeah. different circumstances for mortars and missiles versus the stuff-on-a-tripod.

And as a modeler first and gamer second, I prefer not doing magnet shenanigans so I can build dynamic poses that tell stories.

>>54031977
Well shit, guess I was in the wrong. Thanks anon, I'm off to stone my FLGS crowd for wrongthink.

>>54031973
There are ways to shield against deep strike, but yes it's very strong atm.

>>54031989
>I mean I can understand that there are retards who can't be bothered spending an extra $2-3 for some fucking magnets, but they're in the minority right?
Go outside the basement sometime and play with other people instead of just shitposting online. Practically nobody has magnetized models, and only a tiny fraction of those with magnets have more than a handful of options magnetized.
>>54031994
That bait doesn't work. There's nothing inherently anti-Nurgle about Bikers, it was the Death Guard bit that was the problem.

>>54031843
But power is not made for tournaments.
I agree power for tournament is a stupid idea because it can be abused in the worse ways.

>>54031973
Your tactic is the exact reason I always take some min size Canoptek scarab units to protect myself from deepstrike.

It's powerful, but it's not unbeatable.

>>54032051
>I agree power for tournament is a stupid idea because it can be abused in the worse ways.
It's a problem if one person takes a bunch of upgrades and the other doesn't... But if everyone is "abusing" it then wouldn't it be fine for tournament play?

If you'd just bought your first Immolator for a primarily SoB army, what would you stick on it in 8th?

>>54031886
>that one death guard biker WAACfag just got btfo
Praise GW

>>54032074
It would literally kill the point of bringing anything taht isn't fully upgraded and knitted. it kills different builds and half of the units.
why not using points at this point?

>>54032076
i would stick it up my ass because that's the only thing you can do with sisters on 8th

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Trying to get into 40k books

Is Phil Kelly known as a good writer?

>>54032088
Sometimes the "upgrades" are situational, like choosing anti-tank vs anti-infantry.

A flamer may cost less than an assault cannon, but the flamer is better in some situations.

>>54032096
not really, but at least its not the worse.

>>54032096
average writer. if you like the subject you'll enjoy the book

>>54032096
is just above garbage tier (or Chernobyl waste regarding codex writing)

>>54032096
Don't, they're universally shit even for what they are.

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Damn guys, Grey Knights are actually really good.

Just played 2k game against Daemons, and they really do feel like the battle-honed daemon killers. 3 mortal wounds and reroll to wound is awesome, storm bolters actually cripple hordes, and falchions+ancient are the bomb.

However, Daemons are kickass. You have to mix n match I think, but parking a bunch of heralds in the back line and summoning in whatever you need (Brimstones are broken as hell, it's awesome) seems really powerful. Plus they can nearly auto-win most objective games by keeping 100-200 points in their pocket then summoning in like 50 brimstones on an objective T5/6.

Based off the game, GK are back to daemon-hunting goodness, though I can't imagine they'll be quite as good against other stuff. Which is fine because holy hell they mince daemons

>>54031739
>>new flying HT kit when?

It's a pretty recent model so I think you're looking at a few good years before any update on it...

>>54032143
>if your ork vehicles are painted red you get to move an extra 2"
What did he mean by this tho

>>54031801
If you don't have some naked ones to absorb the casualties with you're doing it wrong. It'd be like taking flash gits without the ammo runts.

>>54032145
I heard there was one WHFB novel about vampires that was semi-decent

can't recall the name of it though

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>>54032089
What? Are you that "shitsters of basshole" moron who can't say anything positive about the sisters at all because a nun molested him?
Sisters are really good this edition.

>>54032076
Dominions! Dominions give it vanguard, letting it move incredibly fast in the first turn.

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I have an autogun fetish. Is there anything preventing me from wielding havocs with nothing but autoguns?

>>54032216
i'm not that autist
i said that just for the pun really

>>54032224
yes, autoguns aren't an option for havocs

do you mean autocannons?

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>>54031994
>>54031846

>>54032224
Autoguns are basically modern day automatic weapons so
>>>/k/

>>54032244
Sorry I meant autocannons yes

After all these years, this video is useable again...

https://youtu.be/7Z-wAUDK6G8

So anyone get play in with Slaaneshi daemons?
Are they as competent as we thought?

So do fortifications block LOS or are they technically units? I have a fun idea to take a Bastion or two with an Aegis line and park them in a corner in front of some Basilisk to make Fort Fuck-Off. Feasable or silly?

>>54031393
As a TO that runs tournaments as a volunteer, let me just say this:
front line gaming is a bunch of useless shits who don't help the game or the community.

I use points. I check lists with points. I've already partially memorized the points values of weapons. I can glance over lists and see things pretty fast, and I'm not getting paid.

They are getting paid, but they want an easy out from doing their job. Fucking sellouts.

>>54032096
Better than Thorpe and Mccneil.

>>54032259
>powergamer Hitler hears about Tau nerfs
needs to be a thing

>>54032293
>Tau nerfs

Which ones

Literally everything but the Riptide is better

>>54032179
Grey knights are broken against daemons and it will probably get changed. Having one army hard counter another isnt a fun mechanic for either faction.

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>>54032301

>played Chaos Daemons

How fucked am I?

>>54032308
It's been that way for literally as long as Grey Knights have been a thing, why would it change?

>>54031393
It's an interesting argument, but I don't think it would remove any emphasis on list building. Instead, it would just change how lists are built. Units with lots of versatile weapons options would be much better than any unit that was "locked in" to one or two types, because you could list tailor the former on the fly, and not the latter.

Competitively speaking, it would add a third layer to the game: on the fly wargear tailoring.

I don't know if this is desirable for the community or not, but it would be interesting.

>>54032328
It got changed. 5th basically forced daemon players to shelve their armies so GK got nerfed to shit.
Having your most basic and spammable spell to 3 times as much damage to ONE army is unbalanced.

>>54032308
I actually don't know where I come down. From a gameplay perspective, yeah it's lame for an army of another army can beat the shit out of it, but at the same time it's not super-over-the-top busted to the point of being unplayable.

And I'm cool with it for now, it's nice that my Daemonhunters are actually good at daemonhunting, unlike back in 7th

>>54032301
forgot about markerlights there didn't you
and markerlights and riptides where the only thing that need nerfing

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How are Thudd Guns in this ed?

>>54032347
But they still had buffs against daemons, and the ones in the game now aren't even that big a deal, so no, I don't think it'll get changed.

Like yeah, Grey Knights get bonuses vs Daemons. It's what they do.

What are the arguments against "first to finish deployment gets +1 to first turn roll off" house rule?

>>54031817
If you need a counter example for the best weapon available argument don't choose devastators, grav-cannons cost the most and deal with everything better than any other weapon.

>>54032258
ah in that case, yes you can have up to 4 Autocannons in a havoc unit

But they're more of a compromise weapon than they were in the last edition

>>54032364
Thuddy.

4D6, Str 5, D1 for like 90 something points.

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>>54032370
>house rule

Why do Tempestus Scions have to replace their hotshot lasgun with a pistol to take a vox caster, but guardsmen dont have to replace their lasgun with a pistol to take one?
Balance or just most-play-tested-edition?

Anyone still hung up about Oldcron vs Newcrons?

I can stomach the new fluff but its the new aesthetic that looks so off. The jarring and out of place egyptian shit stick out like such a sore thumb. Feels like two armies welded awkwardly together; with weird gaudy egyptian shit compared to the iconic warriors and lords.

>>54032359
Markerlights were not nerfed, they were changed

They aren't meant to be an army-wide increase to BS any more, they are more strategic now instead of just "spam these on everything to make your army not shitty".

It's not a buff or a nerf, it's a redesign. They are arguably just as important as they were before.

>>54032393
Two backpacks, anon.

>>54032393

Models informing the rules again.

>>54032370
First turn is too big of a game variation to leave up to chance. I know some armies need to be able to get first turn, but let's fix that issue without going back to random turns, which is just as bad for those armies.

Consider the following: Each Lord of War you deploy is especially cumbersome. Any time you deploy a Lord of War, your opponent may deploy up to three units before you get another chance to deploy.

There. This fixes the Knights issue without going back to random turns.

>>54031393
It's all bullshit.
Me and my friend were playing a casul game, my chaos vs his necrons.

Power points, I was 3 above him, we said 'fuck it, good enough'
I decided to check in points just cause curious.
He was about 250 points above me.

Point's and power level dont matter. Just find someone you can have a fun game with regardless of balance level.

>>54032371
I come from a generation where those didn't exist...what are those again?

>>54032414
I... I actually like that rule a lot. Thanks anon

>>54032402
I guess at least this is slightly fluffy, even if its more likely just >>54032411

>>54032398

I like the aesthetics and the crunch of newcrons with 2 exceptions: T4 on Immortals and Monolith (I want my 3/4e monolith back)

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>>54032418
>Point's and power level dont matter

>>54031249
grasping talons and thorax spine maw
>each wound roll of 6+ is resolved at str x2 and damage D6

sure it gets you D6 wounds instead of 1 but what does it matter if the wound is made at double strength because the wound roll is already made.
besides 6+ would already wound everything so i just dont get whats going on here.

or is it just a typo and should say every to hit roll liike with sickle claws.

>>54032398
>Newcrons
It's been 6 years anon.
It's not new anymore and you've had time to adjust. In fact that's 2/5ths of their current model aesthetic.

"Oldcrons" were only around for 9 years, since we won't count the original recliner riding DO IT FAGGOT rape face terminators from before 3rd edition.

>>54032443
Oh and I want 36" normal destroyers back.

>>54032376
Oh? Do explain?

>>54031692
Fuck off man.
You are doing it for a reason- ie money, advertising, whatever.
I don't give a shit about your issues. Charge more. The market will bear it, or it won't. Not my fucking issue

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>>54032484
that old metal lord does look egyptian

>>54032096
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
NO.

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Good Old Wraith-Wall

Vanguard Detachment
Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment

HQ
Wraithseer
Wraithcannon
167

Elite
Wraithguard x5
D-Scythes
225 pts

Wraithguard x5
200 pts

Wraithguard x5
200 pts

Wraithblades x5
175 pts

Wraithblades x5
175 pts

Heavy Support
Wraithlord
Flamer, Ghostglaive, Scatter Laser
137 pts

Wraithlord
Flamer, Ghostglaive, Scatter Laser
137 pts

Lord of War
Wraithknight
x2 Starcannons
532 pts

Total: 1978 pts

>>54032511
So people don't just hold tournaments for nurturing and growing the local community? Fucking off yourself faggot.

>>54032511
I don't get your argument here.

He should run points because the free market?

>>54032497
They're not specialised toward a specific target. They can kill light vehicles, elite infantry, or try and put a dent in monsters, but each of those is done better by another weapon. Missile launchers are similar.

>>54031843
>but in tournaments power is stupid
Well yeah. It specifically wasn't designed for tournament play, it was built so there'd be a happy medium between "fuckit let's just throw shit down and play, ballance be damned" and "tournament style careful point calculation." It's for a specific type of play. It's perfect for the specific type of play it's designed for.

>>54032542
Wraithblades are so fucking stupid, why do they exist

Well I've played enough games of blandhammer that I'm ready for the codices now. Any news on this yet cause they're sorely needed.

>>54032565

I run my guard HWT 1/3 HB 1/3 Autocannon and 1/3 lascannons

Las for tanks and exposed characters, HB for infantry, but the autos allow me to double down on either as needed, while having their own little niche for 2W models.

>>54032519
Excellent point, that aesthetic did exist in the pre 2002 necrons.
We call him "Assholetep" It's a meme from when they decided to give him a finecast mould for some terrible reason, so like 2011 - 2012

A friend of mine wants to get into tau, I told him to pick up a start collecting box and the box with pathfinders and a devilfish. He wants a ghostkeel and stealth suits. Any advice for him?

>>54032618
No, sacrifice him to the dice gods posthaste.

>>54032565
Ah okay, also where does it say it's limited to four autocannons a unit?

>>54032618
Beyond the usual 4chan generic advice? Let him try a few game with some of your minis "counting as" and help him rethink his list.

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>>54032398
>The jarring and out of place egyptian shit stick out like such a sore thumb.
Yeah because they never had that before right Anon?

>>54032618
start collecting and optimized pathfinder team are the only bundle boxes that save you any money

>>54032602
Lore or rules?
I can't see a problem with giving a giant robot super swords
Plus loads of attacks with decent strength and AP modifier
Explain please

>>54032399
meh tau are bs4 because lights exist, then you pay an extra 100 for 5 hits of ML to put you on equal terms with everyone else but your units and weapons aren't cheaper. Then on top of that tau suits and vehicles are overpriced for their comparative firepower and durability. The whole faction is getting carried by commanders, but you feel like a jerk bringing 5 of them.

>>54032497

you'll have to check through the archives to find it math hammered bu the gist goes:

Heavy bolter - better vs light infantry
Lascannon better vs Vehicles and MCs
Plasma gun/cannon - better vs heavy infantry and light vehicles
Missile launchers - Better vs Vehicles and MCs (although not as good as Lascannon)

Auto-cannons are just kind of meh at everything

>>54032632
On the index page
>Up to four havocs may replace their boltgun with one item from the /Heavy Weapons/ or /Special Weapons/ lists

>>54032685
This is like objectively false. Autocannons are one of the best all around guns in the game right now.

>>54032685
But doesn't the range help it at all?

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How can I improve this white scars list before I start buying models

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>>54032519

>>54032263
Help? There's a Bastion on sale at my LGS and I don't know if it's worth it. Never used fortifications

>>54032263
What makes you think units don't block LOS?

LOS is blocked if you can't see the model. If you can see the model it is not blocked.

>>54032028
>Each model tells a story
>Die to 8d6 flamer wound anyway

W A S T E
A
S
T
E

>>54032701

>Wounds vehicles on 4s/5s
>Only wounds marines on 3s
>Only chips 1 off target's save
>Costs twice as much as Heavy Bolter

>>54032748
Every model dies.

>>54032751
All of this is true.

It's still one of the best all around weapons in the edition.

>>54032753
That's deep, dude.

>>54032761
I would take a plasmagun over an autocannon any day if any of the numerous "reroll 1s" characters are in my list.

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I fucking love Terminators.

Where are my Death Guard Terminators Riot?

Where are they?

Reeeeeeeeeeeeee!

>>54032263
>guard players idea of a "fun idea" is to corner camp
Figures.

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>>54032712

>>54032771
I am too much rule of cool to do that, I fucking adore autocannons from a simple standpoint of it being a literal tank artillery round per shot

>>54032771
I wouildn't, I'd take both as much as possible, because the range shouldn't be ignored.

>>54032784
The extra range is nice yeah but a single overcharged plasmagun shot at 24 inches will do more than 2 autocannon shots will.

>>54032701
I'm not saying they're bad, just that they're a compromise weapons, they are a good weapon, just not as good as something specialised for its role.

>>54032703
I've not played a game where it would make much of a difference as more of the time you're withing 24" of one another. But on largertables yeah it would probably give you an extra turn or two of shooting (cover permitting).

One thing auto cannons do do pretty well is anti air fire, as few aircraft have toughness of over 6

>>54032783
thought they were like 40mm aa guns?

>>54032783
I think you and I have different ideas of either what autocannons are, or what artillery is

>>54032776
I play Iron Warriors : ^ )
Basilisk have the Chaos keyword now thanks to R+H

>>54032792
it will also be removed from the table asap after that 1 turn of shooting.

>>54032542
Perfectly fine/10

>>54032795
They pretty much are. For real life examples, see the 25mm Bushmaster on LAV-25s, or 30mm fuck-off gun on BTR-80As.

>>54032800
>perturabo being a camping faggot
Like pottery

>>54032806
So are you saying a model with a plasmagun can be killed but a model with an autocannon can't?

>>54032741
That mechanic just feels odd.
Model A is 90% obscured by model B
Resulting in no cover for A
Model B is 50% obscured by random debri
Resulting in cover for B

That is just odd

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This is for IG HWT, but a similar reasoning applies.

Yes HB are better anti-infantry, and lascannons are better anti-tank, but Autos allow you to switch seamlessly between the two maintaining good efficacy.

>>54032793
And a plasma cannon on the other hand is not a compromise weapon. It's good against everything and has enough range to do it.

>>54032814
You telling me you don't Fucking love mechanized Chaos? That's why Iron Warriors are cool because they tell Chaos to Fuck off and only use it for their own gain, as if it were a weapon or tool.

>>54032709
more bikes

>>54032828
well I'd argue still a compromise just generally a better one, but the point is rather moot as Havocs can't take plasma cannons

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>>54032833

Once and for all - Does the roll-off winner pick the deployment zone, or roll for the deployment zone?

>>54032863
This.
You need bikes for big necklace, bikes that send texts, bikes that make breakfast, bikes that sign breasts, bikes that straight festive, bikes with six senses, bikes that hate Texas, bikes that wear vests. Also a way to kill vehicles.

>>54032772
Remember when it was "leaked" to have scythe-wielding DG Termies with rampage?

I still hold out hope.
+1 Attk for every 5 models in the enemy unit would be just what we need to BTFO the current meta

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>>54032903

>>54032833
Could be nice
If they had
Any sort of artillery.

>>54032921
How do I convince the retards at the FLGS that that's how it's done?

>>54032918
I like shooty termies personally but will take anything.

>>54032933
Teach them to read

>>54032772
I know, right? I was about to order ten cataphractii for conversions.

>>54032903
The Rulebook says determines, and remand you to the page of the deplyoment zones, which explicitly says you roll.

>>54032933
You can't. They won't be retard otherwise.

>>54032932
R&H gives them back their basilisks finally

>>54032951
"But isn't determine = choose? Hurr." - FLGS Retard

>>54032815
no but 10 expensive model with plasma 24" away from the enemy is pretty much dead next turn.
48", away its already harder to catch.

>>54032998
Dominions in Repressor laugh at your 48" range

I haven't use the gimmick enough to see if it is reliable but god damn it is funny

>>54032792
Sure, which is why I take Scion Command Squads for dropping and have a few of my Scion infantry squads with plas too, alongside my volley guns.

But I also get autocannons on vehicles as much as possible and I take them on other platforms too because they're really effective this edition actually.

>>54032824
It's nice, cus Missile Launchers and Autocannons have always been my favorites simply because of aesthetics.

>>54032701
True, they do bad things to costy units with storm shields.

And they btfo primaballerinas.

>>54032938
I don't think we've had anything close to shooty termies yet.

... yeah, I could maybe get behind Nurgle Broadsides.

>>54032984
Bullshit. How does that work?

>>54033047
Well at least with a combi weapon in one hand. I don't like melee exclusive terminators.

>>54033046
This is one of the things here too. While yeah, they get beat out a munching hordes, they still can ding hordes, but they also hit up against targets that their AP isn't going to matter much about, and chunk out wounds due to being two damage.

They're just very versatile, and that's a big benefit.

>>54033053
They have Chaos faction machinery, similarly to how GC have brood russes and sentinels. As those vehicles now share a faction with you, you can have your IW basilisks back.

Are Cataphractii still junk? I absolutely love their armour designs and might just use them as Assault Terminators anyway, either GS them some shields or just carry giant fuckoff hammers.

>>54033053
R&H lets you changes <Imperium> to <Chaos> for a bunch of units, Basilisks included.

>>54033034

One thing that I did not take into account when making that spreadsheet is the variable damage from ML, which puts them at a slight disadvantage compared to Autos against 2W models.

>>54031514
You must only play against colossal faggots
Not everyone is a total dick

>>54033053
Easy, R&H take AM stuff and swap out Imperium for Chaos, meaning nominally speaking, a Chaos Battle Forged army can take anything from the R&H list, which is most things from the AM list, with some limits. While the infantry suck, the vehicles are just as good, for the most part.

This means Iron Warriors can take Basilisks as HS.

>>54032984
Ever since the deredeo I've been so done with FW.

>>54033084
Cataphractii+heads and bits from Deathwing knights. Try it.

>>54033096
I mean, the discussion was over tournaments specifically, in which you must account for the lowest common denominator.

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>>54033094

>>54033099
still bs 4+ right?

>>54031465
>tfw stores anniversary is round the corner
How much do these things usually cost?

>>54033114
Yeah, sadly, but such is life.

>>54033104
What do you mean?

>>54033114
yes, but them's the breaks.

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look what ive got delivered today
snagged for 5 AUD a piece
i have the audiobooks but now i have book-books.
not pictured: assembled baneblade i snagged for 90 AUD, still en route

I think I've finally pinned down why the Chaos Space marine models annoy me, at least the newer stuff, it's because the trim is at varying widths and lengths and not consistent throughout, having lots of random spikes and edges in it. It drives me Fucking crazy. Anyone know how I'd go about making trim for regular space marines for conversions?

>>54032670
Wraithguards are almost always better.

>>54031762
>that's 160 shoulder pads too
>not magnetising the shoulder pads
I shiggy diggy doo.

This seems like a complete waste but it seems so fun and thematic. Thoughts?

Chaos Terminator Lord with power axe and combi-melta.

Chaos Terminator Sorcerer with force staff and combi-melta.

10 Chaos Terminator's with power axe and combi-plasma each.

Teleport all of them 9" away from enemy high value stuff. Cast prescience on Plasma Terminators to give them +1 to hit. You now have 20 shots of Str 8, AP-3, D2 that hits on 2+, rerolling 1s. Plus you can throw in a smite or warp time before the shooting.

Costs 829 points though, which is very high.

>>54033112
is there a version where the similar weapons are grouped together? i.e. special weapons, heavy weapons, leman russ turrets, superheavy turrets, artillery, etc?

>>54033112
wound per point data is more useful desu

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>>54032772
truly terminators are the emperors gift to man, citizen

>>54033140
Do you always have a combat knife sitting on your desk like a retard, or is that just some asinine internet pageantry?

>>54033164
It's skyhammer. You can claim it's "fun" and "thematic" all you want, but it's still fucking skyhammer.

>>54032824
>100 pts of Hvybolters + 100 pts of lascannons
>better against everything than 200 pts of autocannons.
check mate atheist.

>>54033164
You aren't even the first person in this thread to bring up CSM Terminator stars.

>>54033193
Apologies for englandsky but I'm a newfag.

What's skyhammer?

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>>54033189
no, sorry
it was the nearest thing i had at hand to open the shipping package they came in
if i wanted to show off i'd break out this drop pod i invented

>>54032076
Don't glue the guns on. You don't even have to magnatise them, they should just pop on and off.

>>54033210
You should start making conversion kits

>>54033210
fucking hell sorry about the awful image

>>54033226
Time for sleep aussie

>>54033208
Obnoxious and widely hated formation from the last edition, which did basically the exact same thing as that terminator trick.

>>54033107
I think I like the sounds of that; do you know if the robed heads can wedge into the head area for the Cataphractii? I've got a weaponless set sitting around but no DWKs, and it looks a rather small hole.

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>>54033187
>That marines in the back suffering the flesh change

>>54031393
I agree with using power levels but not because of those reasons.

I think they're good because the way that points information is presented in the indexes is utter shit for no apparent reason so it's easier to use power and because I think that in 99% of situations there is no real need for the granularity of points, so why even use them.

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>Tfw you realize all life feeds chaos
>Tfw you realize that the Hive Mind is or was created by The Outsider to exterminate all life
>Tfw you realize that the Imperium and the God Emperor are just another branch of chaos participating in the great game
>Tfw you realize that the only real factions in 40k are Chaos and the C'tan.
>Tfw 40k boils down to life vs death
>Tfw 40k boils down to action vs inaction

>>54032559
He is bitching how points is harder for Tos.
I said then charge more to make it worth your time, passing the opportunity cost of spending more time onto the players.
Or Dont use points, and accept that you might get less players, because power levels are not balanced and tourney players might not like that.
Either way, stop bitching. And "it's harder for TOs" is a fucking retarded reason for "then tournaments should go to power"

>>54033140
Good keyboard taste, terrible literature taste.

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>>54033259

Command Squads should be a Command SQUAD.
Not just a better Special Weapons team.

Bring back squad HQ's for IG!

>>54033187
>matte red Thousand Sons instead of metallic
Disgusting. You are not my nigga.

Quick question about Imperial Armour: Astra Militarum.
They list Icarus Quad Lascannon as firing 4d6 shots, that must be a typo right?
They also say that the Icarus Lascanon have Heavy D6.
If you want to see for your self check out page 53 and 113.

So tell me /40kg/ hows does your 1000 point list beat Magnus and three winged daemon princes?

Now remember they're all characters so you can only target the closest one or Magnus, but sadly he'll be charging your lines turn one.

>>54033265
You do realize that he'd probably get the same amount of players with points or power levels, but he would certainly get less players if he upped the price? One thing you don't seem to get about the free market is that the provider of services has just as much right to do whatever as you, the buyer. "It's harder for TOs" is a perfectly legitimate reason for a TO to do whatever.

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>>54033252
>Magnus has failed us, brother.. but I will not fail you. Know that you served the Emperor well. Now go to him.

>>54032190
This post is why I prefer power level to points. You're complaining about people "just loading up good gear" when using power because you want cheap ablative wounds.

Because ork nobs are going to leave their war gear at home so that when they heroically jump in front of bullets for their well armed comrades you're losing less points.

Which one of those sounds like WAAC gaming?

>>54033285
Easy

5 tau commanders with fusion blasters is only 800 points

Hi I'm literally retarded and I would like to know how points values are calculated on everything this edition. Battlescribe is currently pretty fucking useless and I have no idea where they get the stats for how much anything costs.

Pls send help.

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>>54033259
Now you realize that man was meant to embrace chaos as we are in a symbiotic relationship. Chaos Undivided, through Chaos, man will rule all

Wait so is literally building a castle viable in 8th? That almost sounds like FUN

>>54032542
Wraith Host is definitely my next army, so fucking sexy

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>>54033278
just on the terminators, friend

>>54033285
600 points worth of conscripts+400 points worth of buffing characters. I sit on the objectives and hold the line.

>>54033278
Metallic TSon are disgusting. Post a good picture of that paint scheme I dare you.

>Inb4 some disgusting cherry red monstrosity
Ewww.

>>54033285
Use two set of Melta/flamer Dominion inside a Repressor and shoot him down turn one. With the power of bad keywords and 36"+2D6" movement turn one on top of 8" flamer or 12" melta

Mixed Chaos with Renegade Knight army
Pure Chaos Space Marines army
Black Legion
Red Corsairs
World Eaters
Thousand Sons
Death Guard
Emperor's Children
Chaos Daemons
Mono Chaos Daemons

Opinion on any of these?

>>54033112

That table was my inspiration, but it fails to take into account the per-point efficiency, which skews it toward expensive options.

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>>54033272
Dude I was able to run a Battalion detachment and Brigade detachment on top of a shadowsword the other day through officer spamming, we have access to the cheapest HQ's and Elites, and orders go off automatically stop complaining.

Do you want to know what fighting a shadowsword and guard horde with 15 command points is like? You don't want to know. I feel bad for running it.

>>54033317
The index books?

Contains unit costs and wargear costs, you add the two up.

I've got a Chaos index open in the background. A chaos terminator is 31 points. His regular wargear is combi-bolter and power axe. Combi bolter is 2 points and power axe is 5, so a normal chaos terminator is 38 points.

If you were to swap all that for lightning claws, it would be 13 points for both so it would cost 31+13 for 44 each.

>>54033317
read

the

rulebook

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>>54033140
Good books. Helped open my eyes to Russ's utter retardation.

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>>54033246
Apparently yes.

>>54033194

Except when your 100pt of lascannons run out of heavy targets (or maybe the opponent has none to start with)

Or the same thing for HBs

Then you are left with a really shitty weapon.

I like a 1/1/1 mix of HB Auto and LC

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>>54033320
>tfw you realize that the prophecies saying the final conflict will be between man and tyranids will actually be a fight between Chaos and the Star Gods.
>tfw 40k has sacred repetition

I like 8th, but it needs a few fixes. Here's a general one:

Flamers: +2 inches to range across the board, and when targeting units with more than 10 models, you get 3 additional auto hits (so the attacks characteristic becomes D6+3 for most).

Grenades: +3 attacks when targeting a unit with more than 10 models

Bomb type abilities: Double the mortal wound cap. For instance, if a bomb could roll 10d6, it rolls 20d6 instead.

>>54033351
>How is this a good thing?

More snowflake, less OP = always better

>>54033317
Read the rules.
To put it simple, you buy each model individually in a squad, the equipment for each of them.

Most special characters have in their point list the exceptions that gear is already included. For example Inquisition special character need to buy their gear.

Why? Because 8th is a strange beast

>>54033389
Instead of this, maybe they should introduce a global rule for the shooting phase which gives the unit shooting +1 to hit, before modifiers, if they are shooting at 10+ model units.

You can hardly miss that many.

>>54033389
jesus man, grenade is already d6, you want to make that 4d6?

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>using both points and power levels at the same time

>>54033389
>>54033408
Im okay with either of these

But wouldnt people just take groups of 9 models and work around it?

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>>54033326
>gloss
Better but I'm still not happy.

>>54033330
I'm not a fan of the gold they used but this red is sublime.