EDH/Commander General

>>54020172
Personal fan of Melek 30 minute turns involving Scrambleverse

Threadly reminder that if you don't put your commander in different colored sleeves you cannot follow the rules properly.

>>54020418
Friendly reminder that only faggots are against tucking generals or comply with this sleeve nonsense.

>>54020418
What if I only sleeve my commander?

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What's your favorite flavor of spellslinger?
paradox engine and friends were a HUGE boon to mono black spell slinger

>>54020418
>Threadly reminder that if you don't put your commander in different colored sleeves you cannot follow the rules properly.
what rules
if anything in corner cases where your commander gets shuffled in you would be violating deck building rules by having it in a different sleeve

>>54020627

I bet you also bridge your deck

>>54020792
>bridge your deck
stop that
nobody is that dumb!

>>54020496
>>54020753
>2017
>Trying this hard to be retarded.

A commander is always a commander, it never stops being one even when face down. All commanders can use the replacement effect at all times. If a commander would be put into exile face down by an effect like Bomat Courrier, you are able to apply the replacement effect.

Sheldor made a mistake when making the rules of the format. If you don't put your commander in a different sleeve you can't follow the rules properly.

>Inb4 retards wondering how your commander got in your library in the first place.

Learn the rules you goon

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>>54020860
>forcing your ill thought out house rules on other people
they already fixed this problem when they made you declare your commander at the beginning of the game
You massive fag

>>54020899
Wrong

>>54020913
iknowurbutwhatami

>people falling AGAIN for dif sleeve anon
C'mon guys

>>54020172
Utility spellslinger a.k.a. Wort doubling removal spells or Mizzix making huge cantrips free. Alternatively, pump/untap spells Tazri/Zada. I got some new toys for it in the mail.

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Thinking about switching my jarad deck over to sidisi, what are some good blue/dimir/sultai/simic cards to add?

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>>54021270

So can anyone suggest a comfy deck? There's an arms race going on in my group, and I would like to slow things down with a laid back deck.

>>54021339
5c lands
win with mazes end

>>54021339
Hermit druid combo

>>54021339
Zedruu. Just play Santa and give gifts to the good players and coal (Pyromancer's Swath/Illusions of Grandeur) to the bad ones.

>>54021339
Oloro pillowfort control.

>>54021572
Can confirm, pillowfort decks are quite comfy.

I want to play comfy Abzan. Can I play Ghave without doing combo?

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Is it too late for "guess the curve"?

>>54021979
Sure, just be sure to avoid any of the "combo" cards and desperately plead to your group that you're just making plants. They still won't believe you though.

>>54022019
Oona?

>>54020860
What part of this has anything to do with the color of the sleeves, though?

>>54022019
the new god
5cmc spot is surprisingly thinner than the 6

I've never built a spellslinger deck. I have enough blue and black to cobble together something half decent, but what should I know before going in? What's the objective of the deck and what should I avoid?

>>54022092
>>54022049
It's an Esper deck.
>>54022019
Zur.

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>>54020172
Brewing a mono-black Greel discard deck right now

Does anyone have experience with that kind of deck? Especially in free for all multiplayer

Any interesting card suggestions besides the essential discard and removal?

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>>54022179
i was just pretending to be retarded

>>54022214
Geth's Grimoire baby!

>>54022033
I'm known in my group for making theme and gimmick decks that tend to be less competitive, I can probably pull it off

I just want to make plants

>>54022049
>>54022092
>>54022179
It's actually Dakkon Blackblade, which is surprising since there's not much black in the deck

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/26-06-17-black-out/

>>54022243
thanks, gonna order this

Who is the sexiest commander?

>>54021979
Build Ghave thallids with Thelon.

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My commander is my waifu

>>54022455
Add every fungus in the game but remove the corpsejack menace

>>54022434
Geralf.

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>>54022434

>>54022434
Radha, Heir to Keld.

>>54022509
>those teeth

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Apparently my 12 year old self had a fake copy of fireball buried in a pile of cards.

Neat.

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>>54022554
yeah, cute!

I have modern, legacy, vintage, and edh decks all centered around her, and I had a standard deck with the new one too. It's a good time to be a thaliafag.

>>54022455
Should I put in proliferate effects for the spore counters?

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>>54022554

>playing Edh with freinds
>random player, friends friend asks to join
>sure
>proceeds to turn 6 Armageddon with no win con planned after
>we all scoop and shuffle for next game
>he starts shuffling his deck to
>we tell him he can sit out and watch how to play the game properly
>he gets pissy and leaves

MLD players are trash.

>>54022620
A few good ones, sure. Don't go crazy. It's half counters, half token armies.

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>>54022434

>>54022706
>Muh lands

Have anyone build a fun Anafenza deck?

>>54022809
There's a right way to play mld and a wrong one.
>Armageddon with no follow up or game plan = piss people off and reset the game for no reason. Wrong.
>Armageddon with follow up = cohesive game plan. Will irritate people, but you can still win. Right.

>>54020860
Dude we went through this days ago. Who got you this butthurt?

>>54022813
Spooky Anafenza?

>>54022746
I thought I wanted to see the full picture.

I was wrong.

>>54023257
You might as well post the link so we can all see anon

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>>54022746
>>54023257
>>54023326
Somewhat relatedly, this...thing happened today.
https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgvorthos/comments/6jhd3d/nsfw_hour_of_glory_a_pride_month_tribute/

>>54022554
They are adorable and make her look youthful and spirited

>>54023357
Good old Clarence and Steve

>>54023437
I think you mean Steveon Rhonashiraparaham.

>>54022714
If I'm not using the saprolings for a Ghave combo, what else can I use them for? (besides swinging wide)

>>54023607
Mostly swinging wide, yeah, but a lot of thallids sac them for various abilities.

>brother netdecked a competitive Baral 1v1 list to try and get into the format
>doesn't want to go to the LGS for games, just wants to 1v1 my multiplayer decks
>usually wins because it's just counters and a polymorph combo
>stop playing with him cause it's the same thing every game
>he gets mad

just venting, bros

>>54023889
>playing the 1v1 banlist
tell that faggot to boot emerakul banned for aeons and to put in a solring. Then just bribery/extract out his promised end and enjoy life again.

>>54023794
>want to throw in fun sac effects
>now I'm combo ghave
Reeeee

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>This gets spoiled
>Someone in my playgroup is eager to play it because he likes no-fun-allowed decks
>I play Edric with a swarm of 1/1s

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>>54022434
Elesh Norn

>>54024031
>lose all Abilities
>edric

Ok

>>54022863
>waaaaaah, Waaaaah, he made us concede, I'll put a stop to it!!!

To MTGO anon from last thread:

What"s your username? Trying to get some fa/tg/uy games going.

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>>54022434
Thin Lizzy (my rakdos waifu)

>>54023956
There is no escaping combo Ghave. Just have durdly thallid fun and accept that sometimes you'll go infinite accidentally.

>>54024090
>sit down to play magic
>dont

If that is fun to you, fine. But stay the fuck away from the other players. We'll just make you sit out.

>>54024165
Friendly reminder that Lyzolda is just some random witch bitch.

>>54024190
Most one off legendary characters are just random. Most arent into bdsm

>>54023220
The Foresmost, but if Spooky Anafenza is more fun i have no problem i have both and i want to find them a good deck

>>54024228
No, as in Lyzolda isn't even the Rakdos guildleader from the storyline. That's Izzy, not Lizzy.

lost pretty badly at commander night tonight but i unpacked a masterpiece sword of body and mind from the entry pack. pretty awesome

>>54024291
There were two cycles of Legendary creatures in original Ravnica, the 12 and 1122 cycles.

A decent number of the 12 cycle are just random guild members. Agrus is important to the story, but otherwise a beat cop. Tibor, Lumia, Circu, and Tolsimir are pretty much just randoms. Even Ulasht is just "some weird Hydra".

>>54024031
My friend is amped to crack this. I can't wait to counterspell it.

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>>54024537
Hope you've got a stifle effect.

>>54024530
Okay, there's Ravnica, Guildpact, and Dissension, the three sets of the Ravnica block, and Ravnica, Guildpact, and Dissension, the three books of the Ravnica trilogy. In Dissension the book, there's a character, Izolda, who runs the Cult of Rakdos while Big Daddy R is doing other shit. In Dissension the set, there's a card, Lyzolda. Lyzolda isn't Izolda. Anything Izolda does in the canon is separate from anything Lyzolda does.

>>54024566
I do. Stifle, Trickbind and Disallow are necessities

>>54024595
>>54024530
Oh, and that's the other thing. Lyzolda does nothing.

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>>54024566
>stifle
You are like little baby. Watch this.

>>54024613
Shes a great commander.
Magic lore is like tumblr fan fiction anyways. Who gives a shit.

>>54024595
That was just a typo and the background material for Return to Ravnica clarified that Lyzolda and Izolda are the same person.

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>>54024644
You think yourself in control of this situation?

>>54024595
>>54024672
To clarify:
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/ravnica-then-and-now-2012-08-29-0

>As Rakdos slumbers in his lava pit, the acting guildmaster, the bloodwitch Lyzolda, procures dragon spinal fluid and blood from Jarad (now the guildmaster of the Golgari), and uses both those and the blood of Jarad's son to cast a spell to awaken the demon. Rakdos awakens and smashes his way out onto the streets of Ravnica and right into a fight with Project Kraj. After the fight with Kraj, Rakdos is hauled back into the lava pit of Rix Maadi in a coma. Lyzolda crumples as soon as Rakdos succumbs to Kraj and is promptly devoured by her Rakdos guild members.

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>>54024710
duh

>>54024828
How is that going to stop anything important?

>>54024853
it kills the memebender before I cast extirpate

>>54024878
He already flipped him face up you fucking chud. Killing creatures doesnt stop their triggers from happening.

>>54024894
>before I cast extirpate

>>54024878
Okay, so now that we have time travel in our magical Christmas land, what's to stop me from killing your father before you're born?

>>54024894
If he gets to say he has a facedown creature on the board before I cast my spell, so do I.

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>>54024912
We could spend literally the entire day doing this.

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>>54024971
Indeed

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>>54024982

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>>54025007

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>>54025007

>>54021372
I play this deck and it is pretty comfy for most of the game but eventually you have a massive turn with Gitrog Monster or sacrificing lands then returning them to play repeatedly and that takes some thought.

5color lands is a god tier deck though. I only built it this year and have loved playing it.

>>54025052
Got a list?

>>54022434
Mayael

>>54022706
>>we tell him he can sit out and watch how to play the game properly

Your a bunch of cunts

>>54023889
Either make a 1v1 deck or have him make a multiplayer deck. Or better yet invite people over and show him how the format was meant to be played, and he gets to be in a social vacuum while he is still learning.

>>54022706
He is trash because he did it for "teh lulz". I've got no problem with MLD when it actually wins the game.

>>54021372
Yes.

I want to build Turbo-Maze so bad, but Scapeshift is like 60$.

>>54022604
How do you know it's fake?

>>54025710
Scapeshift is like $40.

>>54020418
>>54020753
>>54020860

This anon has been spouting this shit for a few threads. He's interpreting the rules different than they're written. The rules say that a commander is a commander no matter where it is, or what form it's in (If you choose to let it get tucked, and it gets manifested) but he's a fucking tool. Different sleeves for your commander are literally not needed, it's up to player discretion but if you choose to put your commander in a different don't be pissed if someone plays a "Discard at random" card and chooses the card that's obviously your fucking commander, or if someone codex shredders it when they see it's at the top of the deck.

>favorite three-colors are Naya and Bant
>favorite two-color is Selesnya
>all three of them are trash or have 1 good commander
wizards please

>>54025768
>don't be pissed if someone plays a "Discard at random" card and chooses the card that's obviously your fucking commander

You should never "choose" a card at random like that. Use RNG to determine it, like a die roll or an actual random number generator if your hand is big enough.

>>54025685
Ok I can empathize with that. Your still cunts though, if ( we tell him he can sit out and watch how to play the game properly ) was the way you decided to handle it.

>>54025802
Fair, that's what we do in my playgroup, but a lot of other people don't bother because it's unnecessary if you don't know what the cards are- Sleeving your commander in a different sleeve still gives all of your opponents more information than you should want to give them.

what kind of stuff can i cast for smaller mana costs in a yidris deck? stuff like shriekmaw for instance

>>54025858
mulldrifter.
the expertise cycle, thats what I use mainly to combo off

>>54025791
I have a foolish hope for an esper spirit for commander 2017.

>>54025791
In Bant, you've got:
>Derevi
>Jenara
>Roon

In Selesnya, you've got:
>Gaddock Teeg
>Karametra
>Rhys
>Selvala
>Sigarda
>Trostani

I'll give you Naya being kind of underwhelming.

>>54025768
But if the commander is in different sleeve, it's not anymore "discarding at random" if opponent picks. Literally only way is to toss a die, the sleeves don't even matter that much, opponents are much less likely to pick a card from center and less from sides, unless you have less cards for that to matter.
But if commandet gets tucked for some reason, it's literally cheating if you can tell it's position in your library, as it will affect shuffling most likely and you're not supposed to know normally a position of any card in a zone that's not a public zone.
Commander damage is still marked for the morphed/manifested commander, but I don't think that you have to tell which of your million manifested creatures is your commander, only that you need to announce the damage either way.

>>54025791
>Bant 1 good commander
Dervi, Roon, Jenara, Angus

Come on anon. Just because they're not broken doesn't mean they're not good, not to mention Bant is a strong as fuck color regardless if it uses it's commander or not.

I've been wanting to make a commander deck with a regular ass planeswalker as it's lead. Every time I bring it up people I play with get mad - Like actually mad - and I don't understand why.

>>54025889
Exactly, that's part of the point. I'm not saying you need to sleeve it differently, and I'm not saying that you need to sleeve it the same. It's up to each group, but always knowing where your commander is not specifically stated in the rules. The anon advocating different sleeves for the commander is claiming it's the rules, but it's not- At all. He's interpreting it the way he wants and trying to claim that it's the rules, when it clearly isn't.

>>54025878
>>54025896
>Derevi
Actually pretty good. I'll give you him
>Roon
Just run Brago
>Jenara
Decent Voltron commanders, but there are better ones
>Angus
wtf even is angus

>>54025944
Angus Mackenzie

>>54025858
Anything with alterantive mana costs, phyrexian mana or something.
FoW can be cast without a cost, as can many others as well, then there's the evokers, expertises and some of the Dash creatures, although they're not really good.
I would use the ritual people, like Priest of Gix, Urabrask and Burning-tree Emissary.

>>54025944
>>54025951
No, what does he do. Why does he do. Why does he cost $100

>>54022434
Grimgrin

>>54025944
>Decent Voltron commanders, but there are better ones.
Yeah, like the best Voltron commander. What's his name, Rafiq? What color combo is he?

>>54025967
Rafiq is good but he's far from the best.

>>54025962
the set he was printed in

>>54025962
Turbo Fog.
He was printed 23 years ago and is on the Reserve List.

>>54025944
>Just run Brago

Brago has the stipulation of having to hit through combat, roon gives you access to an extra color and can be used at instant speed whenever you want, not to mention you can use cards like Seedborn Muse to use Roon on everyone else's turn as well. I would pick Roon over Brago any day.

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>>54025934
Yup. He's a retard, but probably just a retard in for the sweet (you)'s. I don't think that anyone would keep up with the same shit multiple threads unless they get replies, which are plentiful in uneducated and bad posts, so it's not really about what's right and wrong, as long as he gets the attention he lacks in real world.

But anyway, only thing that must be clear is the amount of commander damage done to each player, location of the commander is irrelevant, if it's on the battlefield or library.

But if we're about rulings, what really grinds my gears is whenever people rearrange their graveyards. I mean, why does everyone do that? I play Corpse Dance, if I did that, I would get an unfair advantage, not to mention, pic related exists.

>>54025967
I've been brewing a bruna light of alabaster for voltron. Mirror-mad phantasm, and traumatize seems like a fun combo with her. Plus all of what azorius offers.

>>54026014
Brago lets you blink as many things as you want instead of just one. He's much, much better than Roon.

"I just hit you for 2? Ok, time to blink Brago himself, Sun Titan, Peregrine Drake, Mulldrifter, Reality Acid, and Gilded Lotus. Oh by the way, I cast Stasis."

>>54026067
Because if nobody is playing cards that care about graveyard order, it doesn't matter, and the majority of time only your own graveyard order matters. In Modern and Standard, graveyard order isn't even enforced. Announce to your playgroup beforehand that graveyard order does matter.

>>54026115
Brago is also a key target for any type of spot removal or counters, and his deck is only good if you can blink with him. Roon has more versatility and isn't commander reliant. Brago decks are either the dominant force at a table, or they do nothing because it's so easy to stop them from going off. I've been to several different LGSs and whenever a Brago shows up someone pops it off a few times and the player can't cast it again in time to matter, or no one has an immediate answer and they crush it. We can simply chalk it up to different tastes though, as I prefer the consistent way Roon plays, plus he has access to green and it's ramp which is huge.

>>54026191
>>54026115
Speaking of Brago, do auras flickering attach as a state-based action or, for example, can you destroy Brago when he flickers a Pentarch Ward before it attaches?

>>54022706
>muh landz n shiet

>>54026255
If an aura would enter the battlefield and it wasn't cast, the player whose control it is entering the battlefield under must choose a permanent it could enchant, and it enters the battlefield attached to that permanent.

In other words, no, there is no window of opportunity between Brago flickering the enchantment and it returning attached to Brago.

>>54026301
Neat. Now I can flicker that without fear.

>>54026180
I usually just say that "keep the order in GY" whenever they first start rummaging. Still, there's sometimes idiots, who still rearrange it saying "should have said something earlier", even though they hadn't done anything with it yet, or even worse, asking to see my graveyard and rearranging it.
I don't want to be the passive aggressive faggot who rearranges their grave just to get infinites or maximum value out of Corpse Dance, but it really bothers me when people still do that shit after when I've said to avoid it. It's not even that Corpse Dance is underplayed, I see it somewhat frequently.

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>>54025225
Sure, here is a link: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/5-color-lands-child-of-alara/

I'll appreciate anyone's feedback or tech.

>>54026067
>I mean, why does everyone do that?
I don't do it and I'll mention that it isn't allowed if I see someone doing it. It's fringe because they're older cards but Corpse Dance and Bosium Strip (and more iirc) are playable cards.

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>>54026534
I played this card for the longest time aong with Scrabbling Claws. It's just that for some reason people take attitude whenever I mention to not to rearrange GY, like they're entitled to it.

>>54026534
Unless you're playing Bone Dancer or someone Twincasts your Corpse Dance, it doesn't really matter if other players do though.

>>54026596
But others tend to ask to see my grave and then they rearrange it like we're playing Guillotine instead of MtG

>>54026067
If you're ever playing in a tournament setting, you can disqualify somebody for rearranging their deck in a format that includes "graveyard order matters" cards.

>>54026594
>furnace removed the bottom card from the game
Top Tier Flavor

>>54026715
Okay, yeah, that shit doesn't fly.
Refuse to let them handle your graveyard until they've acknowledged they can't change the order of them. You're not obligated to give them physical access to your cards, you only have to give them the information. If they refuse to respect graveyard order, they can get a list of the name and order of cards in your graveyard.

>>54026739
So only Legacy and Vintage.

>>54026739
To be fair, graveyard isn't to be rearranged even if no one were playing such cards. It kind of translates to me as if someone would just have a stack of cards on their battlefield, where the stack includes all of their permanents, not including the ones that have counters on them, or then they have the counters separately.

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>>54025791
>Selesnya
>trash
Are you retarded?

>>54026812
>legacy and vintage
>tournaments
At least there's casual tournaments occasionally in my LGS where we can sometimes vote to play commander, but it needs minimum of 4 players to launch.

>>54026818
The current REL says you can rearrange your graveyard without penalty in any format where graveyard order matters cards aren't legal. It's technically not legal in Commander, but the spirit of the law is basically admitting "yeah, we don't care unless we have to care".

>>54021979
Fungus Tribal.

Anyone want to critique my Neheb list?

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/679441#paper

Hopefully there will be a few more cards in HOU that can make the list, but for now I mostly want to see if I missed anything obvious.

>>54026191
>Brago is also a key target for any type of spot removal or counters, and his deck is only good if you can blink with him.

Ahh, the old "This commander is better so it isn't actually better argument." An /edh/ staple.

>>54025878
Derevi and Sevala are the only good ones you listed there though Gaddock Teeg can also be good in specific metas.

>>54022706
Could have been avoided by exchanging about 20 words before the game.

Literally
We house rule no random MLD, you cool?

>>54027582
What a strange list. I play enchantress list mostly, so my build is pretty different. Still, why there's Platinum Emperion?

>>54027591
What the fuck are you even going on about? Did you even read the thread progression or are you just saying stuff to try to look cool? I said I prefer Roon and I thought he was better, the other anon said Brago was better. That lead me to talking about the difference in how other players deal with the decks, based on how they're constructed. Brago is a target, period. Roon less so. I didn't say people shouldn't play Brago, I said I prefer Roon over Brago based on taste.

>>54027620
Sounds almost as dumb as allowing banned cards to be played, but only in a specific deck, like OG moxen in only Boros colours

>>54027658
How can people shitpost if they take your words literally and dont try to attach some dumb bullshit to them

>>54027615
Sigarda is incredible in any stax heavy meta.

>>54027615
Okay, by your definition of good, outline the good commanders in other colors. If the complaint was Selesnya, Naya, and Bant having an unusually small number of good commanders, you'll need to contextualize it by comparing the other colors.

>>54027582
You missed nykthos, shrine to nyx.

Wait, if you don't have your commander in a different colored sleeve how do you resolve the replacement effect when a card like Duplicity exiles it face down?

Please tell me in a way that doesn't break the rules.

>>54027666
Not arguing it's not retarded just that when I play with retarded kids I don't want to make them sorry out like those dudes there.

>>54027639
>https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/679441#paper

The thought was that it occasionally saves you if you are behind on life but ready to cast a big Earthquake/Comet Storm/Fault Line to win the game.

Situational I know, but I think it will pay for itself from time to time.

>>54027756
You don't. Maybe don't play a card that exiles the top card of your deck face down.

>>54027731

Yeah, I thought it wouldn't be worth since the deck is so permanent-light but I suppose with Neheb+1 its as good as a mountain. I'll sub it in.

>>54027772
Eh, it's way too costly and tacky to be useful. I'll mainly just roll with Bloodcief Ascension, Excuisite Blood and discard enchantment synergies. I also play Oppression and Painful Quandry to hold back lots of plays. I also play lot of the mediocre minotaurs as well and I'm much lighter on the non-permanent spells side

>>54027954

Ah, maybe I should have been more explicit. List is for Neheb, the Eternal, the new one from HOU.

I do wish I could play Exquisite Blood though...

>>54027796
See but that's not true. You can always apply the replacement effect (rule 903.9).
Also the commander being in a private zone doesn't matter, it still has that property (rule 903.3).

If you want to argue, please use the rules to support your argument. As is you just sound like a collosal retard talking about something you know nothing about.

I'm not saying that the rules say if you don't sleeve it in a different color you are cheating, but I am saying I can think of no other way to resolve this kind of thing.

This is especially relevant because I have not seen a single commander player follow actual guidelines for sleeves ever. If you have sleeves you have played with for over a day you probably have Marked Cards (No pattern) which gives you a warning and you are forced to get new sleeves. Any kind of wear, dirt, scratches, bent corners or curling sleeves will cause this.

If you weren't following the rules in the first place, why not take advantage of that to make a corner case work for Commander (a house ruled format where Sheldon made a mistake and didn't account for this when he changed tuck)

>>54028006
Oh, right. I play the Rakdos one, but I'm more than happy to include the new one when he comes out. Shit's bonkers and I understand Emperion now

>>54028018
Sure, but if you exile your commander through Pyxis for example, you can't apply the replacement effect as you don't know you're exiling your commander, for face-down exile removes all that matters, as if you search for the commander through Praetor's Grasp, your opponent's commander is gone for good

>>54021339
>I would like to slow things down

Build a Thalia control deck. dude at my lgs had one, if he got his rhythm going pretty much no one did shit for 5-6 rounds.

>>54028018
Okay. If card text contradicts rules then you follow the card text. It's exiled face down, you can't look at it. You can't look at it, you can't know its your commander. You can't know its your commander you can't put it in the command zone. Either don't play in a retarded fashion or don't whine that you lost your commander.

>>54028201
>you can't apply the replacement effect as you don't know you're exiling your commander,

You have a rule you can reference for this?

Right now you are just talking out of your ass.

>>54028201
On the contrary, with Praetor's Grasp the solution is simple. Your opponent asks "If this is your commander would you like to put it in the command zone." Because they can see it they know if it's your commander.

>>54028238
As are you. Sleeving is only mentioned in one place in the rules, and that's that double faced cards must be sleeved so as to be indistinguishable from other cards.

>>54028224
See that doesn't work either. Say you mindslaver an opponent, cast their gonti, and manage to hit your own general with the trigger. You exile it face down. Can you apply the replacement effect?

Use rules nigger. It being in a hidden zone doesn't mean you can't apply the effect. It literally says that explicitly in the rules.

I don't know why you think it's so unlikely that Sheldon just forgot a rules interaction that can only occur in a very rare circumstance with half a dozen cards. I would just wipe his cum off your chin and realize he just isn't as comprehensive as WotC.

>>54028251
That's the comprehensive rules. The DCI has their own set of rules for sleeves. If you didn't know this you are dumb as hell.

Second off, if you really believed there were no rules for sleeves or marked cards then it wouldn't matter to you if people put their commanders in different sleeves in the first place.

>>54028239
Opponent can Grasp the card and you can't ask them which card they searched for. If they searched for your commander, you won't get it back.
>>54028238
From face-down exiled cards you can't know what cards they are and you can't look at them, so you can't apply the replacement effect, as you can't know to use it, even if you had the card on top of your deck.
Besides, ironic how you say I'm talking out of my ass.

>>54021285
This card seems hilarious against dredge

>>54028309
But you can't use the effect in your situation. We're not talking about whether you actually know about it, but in a gameplay sense, in a same way that in tabletop games you can know some things which your character can't.

>>54028344
>From face-down exiled cards you can't know what cards they are and you can't look at them, so you can't apply the replacement effect, as you can't know to use it, even if you had the card on top of your deck.

This is you talking out of your ass though. Exiled face down doesn't mean you dont know what the cards are. There are actually only a small handful of cards that exile cards face down in such a way that you wind up not being sure of their identity.

Lastly them being in a hidden zone does not mean that you can not apply the replacement effect (903.3 and 903.9).

In short, git gud and give me a rule number if you actually plan to keep this up. I imagine you will just make up a number, post bullshit, and try to reveal to us all that you were only pretending to be retarded the whole time.

>>54028383
Wanna give me the rule number for that?

>>54028433
420.1

>>54028436
>It took him this long to realize he is wrong and is still salty about it

>>54028309
>It literally says that explicitly in the rules.
>If a commander would be exiled from anywhere or put into its owner’s hand, graveyard, or library from anywhere, its owner may put it into the command zone instead.
No mention of hidden zones. Learn what explicit means and also that maybe if you're going to look for flaws in a game with thousands of cards you'll find one.

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>>54020172
>Thread Question
I hate Azorius with a passion, but damn, does Noyan Dar make it appealing.

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>>54021270

>>54028494
Actually it's not a flaw in the normal game, it's just a flaw in the house ruled format of commander. There are exactly 6 cards in the game that can cause this problem, and they all share that it can only be done if your commander gets shuffled into your deck, which is rare enough anyways.

Second off rule 903.3 is the one where it explicitly says it retains the property of being your commander when it changes zones. The rule you cited is for when the replacement effect can apply, and the first zone listed is exile. Face down exile is still exile ya dingus.

>>54028424
This is because the ruling doesn't exist. Sheldon hasn't given a solution to this kind of situation.
Face down exile is hidden information, and whether you know or don't know which card there is exiled doesn't matter anymore.
You can't apply a replacement effect if you don't know if the card has one, and you can't even look at the card to confirm.

>>54028548
Villainous wealth is such a filthy card
Really needs to exile itself after casting

>>54028557
Of course it is, but it's hidden information, which means you can't know it as soon as the effect starts resolving

>>54022617
fucking thaliafag snowflakes, GAS!

>>54025791
>>54025878
Just wait for Based Gishark. He will fill the Naya void with J A N K.

>>54028569
>This is because the ruling doesn't exist.

Go back and read my posts, I said the exact same shit multiple times.

I just proposed using a different colored sleeve in a format where no one cares about whether or not their cards are marked in the first place as the most elegant solution and said I could come up with no other that doesn't break the comprehensive rules.

>>54028585
Rule number?

>>54028577
Don't you want to steal MORE cards though?

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My EDH decks are Queen Marchesa Pillows and Zada Storm, what do I build for the 3rd? I'd like a different playstyle for the 3rd, with my only restriction being that it must be relatively budget, since my group is a bunch of pussies.

>>54028616
Yes, but in this case the different colored sleeve doesn't matter. Until Sheldor does something with the rules, the face-down exile effect is hidden information when it is first applied.

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>>54028672
The God of Revels is always looking for my devotion.

>>54028702
More devotion*

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>>54028646
>Cast Through Time Villainous Wealth

>>54028694
It being hidden does not stop you from applying the replacement effect, since "commanderness" is explicitly not a characteristic, which is the thing being face down in exile gets rid of (406.3)

What you are saying makes perfect sense, and they made rules that make everything work fine and dandy, except for when you throw in the special commander rules. That fucks everything right the hell up, and it's what is making you wrong.

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>>54028702
You have my attention. Have a list/primer/starting place?

>>54028745
My list is FAR from good, but I'll share it nonetheless:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/xenagos-god-of-revels-commander-2/

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>go to new game store for first time
>unsure of powerlevel in store
>Do I use my deck with infinite combos out the ass, the one with MLD or the one where I jack and copy people's entire decks

>>54028769
Thanks anon, I'll chisel away at this indestructible enchantment.

>>54028774
>copy their decks
Winner!

>>54022434
Sydri.

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>>54028774
Jack and copy first, then infinite combo, and when they complain about that, shove some MLD up their asses

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>>54028788
May you find the same joy in flattening the unprepared with Xenagod's war party that I do.

>>54028745
not him, but this is mine. Simple but I like it. There's a couple cards from amonkhet i haven't added to it yet though. The mantacore that flings things is going in, since you don't want xenagod to be a creature and you can essentially give something quadruple strike by buffing it, hitting, then flinging.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/divine-revel/

>>54028739
It's kind of strange and I really can't comprehend how it works. I understand your point, but I feel like it's the absolute, that you really can't check or see the card that's exiled. I wish that the RC would just close all the stupid loopholes, since they already fucked up with the tuck rule anyway. I mean, at least finish the thing, even though the rule was a complete mistake from the get go.

>>54028774
Well, in the copy deck your deck is just as good as the opponent's. Too bad that you need to plan much more than your opponents, though.

>>54028836

It still causes mass salt though. People don't like getting offed by their own general or getting their notion thief/Rhox Faithmender stolen and copied three times.
> Too bad that you need to plan much more than your opponents, though.
That's what makes it fun, no wincon purely improv and using what's available to win

>>54028812
They really just need to throw in a line about the replacement effect not working for face down exiling. The only times it can be done IIRC are when your commander is in your hand or library, and you can stop that from happening with the other replacement effect options.

>>54027582
If you want to go full ramp doubling cube.

>>54028018
Why are you stilö here? Please kill yourself, your bullshit "please use rules to argue, while im intentonally misunderstanding the rules im talking about" is getting old.

Who is the best commander for squirrel tribal?

>>54028018
>I'm not saying that the rules say if you don't sleeve it in a different color you are cheating, but I am saying I can think of no other way to resolve this kind of thing.

It's obvious. Have a judge check each face-down card as it's exiled as long as your commander is known to be in your library.

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>>54029176

>>54029176
Vorel of the Hull Clade
Memes aside, probably Gitrog, since there's not much squirrel support and at least you get a nice land sac outlet Gitrog benefits from

>>54029186
Because judges have special rights to break rules, right?

>>54029287
Yes.
Yes, they do.

>>54029287
When a judge does it, it isn't breaking the rules. It's their job.

If a judge gets called for a deck check and starts looking at your hand and library, are you going to call another judge to come penalize them in a game they're not playing in?

>>54029301
I should become a judge so I can errtata my Armageddons to destroy only opponent's lands and to be able to play Limited Resources and Balance

>>54029426
I can't believe anyone is actually this stupid. You really are just here for the (you)s, aren't you?

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>new to commander
>bought anthology
>want to build Kaalia, cheating in angels, demons, and dragons really resonates with a part of me ever since I first started TCGs in general, but that's like 300 bucks to upgrade
>watching playgroups at LGS they immediately target the elf player
>And Meren
>do not want to build any form of Derevi, stax is not a playstyle I enjoy and neither is W or U in general.
>impulse bought 2015 Ezuri deck for +1/+1 counter, but it's on the backburner
>More I research the more things I want to build
>namely Zombies or Vampires but I have 5 precons to upgrade
Send help.

>>54029694
Welcome to commander

>>54025737
It feels fake. Rougher texture than usual, the card frame isn't sitting properly in the border, I feel, and I could swear the stock is just a little too thin. I'm heading to my FLGS tomorrow and hopefully they'll have something to say about it

>>54029694
Yeah, my buddy's got like 15 - 20 decks running at any given time, if he's not pulling them apart to build something else.

Myself, I have six current decks, one retired deck, and three in various stages of planning.

>>54022746
where do i even find the full image?

>>54025791
you can always play partners for naya. selesnya and bant are both great though, i don't really know what you're talking about

>>54029694
>build razaketh
>costs like 500$
>also want to build scorpion god, locust god and scarab god
>noone at my lgs even plays commander so building these would be a waste of money

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>>54029206

>>54030062
Build the Gods, try to keep them at a reasonably even power level, invite two people to play Godwars with you.

Easy.

>>54028702
I really hate Xenagos because I swear my buddy who plays it always curves into some double striker or some Big/1 immediately and proceeds to apply pain and you can never get rid of the thing

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this is best card

>>54030604
>Swing a 3/x Deathtoucher at someone
>Cast that, targeting the guy you're swinging at
>Remove 3 problem creatures
Spicy as fuck.

>>54030604

>Potentially clears the board
>saves an opponent if need be
>Gets rid of pesky creatures that don't want to block
>Forces someone to take your Academy Rector and make it block
Good for politics too
Domineering Will is the definition of spicy

>>54020418
Only real men shuffle the deck, use a random number generator to decide which place in the deck the general will go, and place the oversized card in that spot.

>>54030686
Now all we need are some basic deserts and we can finally have ourselves some 5c desert tribal.

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How's my curve? 4.23 average CMC. Horde of Notions as commander.

>>54031123
Bad. Lower your curve, fampai
.

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>>54030686
Now is my time to shine!

>>54030686
If there are not basic Deserts then these suck massive asshole. Knowing wizards they wont put in any.

>>54030686
fuck yes pain lands are ba--

>>54030686
>only any time you could activate a sorcery
REEEEEEEEEE

>>54030686
those are complete shit. why does WoTC even waste time and cardboard making these?

>>54031935
Pack filler.

>>54028548
i fucking love that card, i cant even tell you how many times ive BTFO of my timmy with it

>>54031935
>designing around limited is healthy for the game

>>54032000
i hate this meme so fucking much, those are not even good in limited

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>>54030686
Those lands will go great into my eldrazi deck

>>54031968
>timmy
Can someone explain this meme to me

>>54032063
http://mtg.gamepedia.com/Player_type

>>54029186
Different sleeve anon here, yeah, that shit would work if you had a judge or other 3rd party lying around to do it for you.

Sorry that some other anon tries to use my crusade to repair a rules error to harvest (you)

>>54032063
its code for penis

>>54032188
>They do not care whether they win or lose, but want to have fun playing really big effects.
What's wrong with this? That's literally the spirit of EDH, it's a "for fun" format.

>>54032268
Timmies are seen as noobs. People enjoy playing cards that spoil their fun, because that's people for you.

>>54029176
Nath.

>>54032268
>spirit of EDH

the problem with timmies is that they get massively butt hurt whenever another player win in a way they dont agree with. stuff like combo, infect, MLD, etc. then they throw out the "spirit of EDH" argument and basically say your not allowed to have fun in certain types of ways. timmies are generally whiney fags who dont practice what they preach and are almost always "that guy" when losing

>>54032300
I am not going to wait for 10 turns while a Timmy durdles for an "le ebic combo Xddd". It isn't really spoiling fun when they just build bad decks half the time.

>>54032349
>MLD
Oh yeah because bringing the entire game to a grinding halt is TONS of fun.

>>54032406
Timmy isn't combos.
Timmy durdles for 10 turns so he can play his Craterhoof Behemoth and swing for a million damage.

>>54032406
Timmy gets excited playing Terra Stomper, not combos. Know your MTG RnD archetypes you nerd.

>>54032431
who MLD and doesnt immediately win the next turn with giant eldrazi or something?

>>54032431
>counter argument is literally stop having the wrong type of fun


You are proving his point.

>>54032406
>"le ebic combo Xddd".
That's Johnny, not Timmy.

>>54028745
Ramp, big efficient tramplers, extra combat step effects, and for extra hilarity Gruul colored counterspells to make Cyclonic memesters cry.

Important safety tip: Kill the player that has access to BW first. Having to cast Xenagos twice is a bummer.

>>54032406
Shut up Spike, nobody likes you.

>>54032595
>>54032540
>>54032493
>>54032478
>>54032455
>>54032435
>>54032431
>>54032406
>>54032349
>>54032300
>>54032268
I hope you all realize that literally none of this autism matters as long as you have a consistent playgroup. Just figure out what the fuck you all want, and stop acting like some anon having badwrongfun on the other side of the world is killing the format.

>>54030667
>I don't understand how Academy Rector works

>>54032349
>>54032300
I think the shitty part of being a Timmy is the degenerate process you go through as you develop as a player.

For example, "that guy" who runs Xenagos with a bunch of standard legal cards is likely to throw a bitchfit if you nevermore his commander and blow up all his sources of trample, because it's seen as limiting how much fun he can have, and he's not really running anything THAT good. In a few months, that same player is going to grab an elvish piper, a few tutors, a bunch of rocks/mana dorks/ramp, then shit out malignus and Xenagos by t5. Swap ramp for reanimator, or uncounterable counterspell backed UG goodstuff, or some kind of crazy eldrazi thing, and you have the second stage: Timmy, Destroyer of Metas.

In new metas, unless there are a few experienced players, these kind of decks absolutely dominate because they're straightforward to build, generally strong, and the control players need to invest significantly more time/money for a similar result. This is where most people here have a bone to pick, because they're playing really aggressive strategies, but still get butthurt about anything that ruins their fun. Think about "that guy" who plays Kruphix. Is the deck degenerate? Of course, but the second you touch his lands, he's going to throw a whiny fit about how he's playing magic "fairly" because he's not running a lot of interaction and just wants to summon big creatures.

The end of a timmy's life cycle comes in one of two ways: either blightsteel colossus or stax. Blightsteel colossus is baby's first "combo piece" because it's an artifact, and there are a ton of ways to cheat it into play if you build around it, or they've gotten their butt kicked by something like Brago Flickerstax that they deem "lesser" and are on a single minded quest to ruin everyone's fun, while still shitting out giant bombs.

>>54029747
That could just be the fact that it's an older card. Wizards has used a few different types of card stock over the years and their QC has always been pretty horrible, so off center frames are common, even today. Hell, with cards from MM2 forwards I'd be suspicious if the card was too *good*.

Not saying it's absolutely not a fake, but old cards can feel different and sloppy printing is not a sure sign of counterfeiting.

Signets are fucking stupid, fight me.

>>54032731
>Two colour deck
Yup, you can just run the 3 drop rocks that make either colour and call it a day.

>Three plus colour deck
Nope. Getting two colours for one colourless is too good of a deal to pass up, particularly in anything without green.

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I play mostly casual, fun decks, and even my more tuned ones are "75%" -ish, but I want something competitive and oppressive. Well, I have come into possession of a foil Doubling Season and I've had an Earthcraft burning a hole in my binder for years, so I want to try making a Ghave deck that just prevents the table from having fun when the tryhards come out.

Anyone here have any experience with him? What are some must-haves, traps and win-mores to avoid, and most importantly, how do you deal with Cyclonic Rift in a permanent heavy Abzan deck?

>>54032812
>so I want to try making a Ghave deck that just prevents the table from having fun when the tryhards come out.
But that's not what Ghave does. Anafenza fits your theme a little better. Ghave is a combo deck, and if you aren't winning quickly, you're losing. If you get board wiped, the only thing you can do is make sure everyone else is also board wiped, by being the first one to drop it. If you start running more recursion, you're going to have less room for combos and removal to make sure you can combo off.

Either you tutor your combo pieces and run a glass cannon build, or you fill your deck with wipes and combo peices so that you keep blowing up the board until you can decisively win in one turn, probably with ashnods/blood artist.

>>54032812
Ghave combo is too slow and fragile for cEDH. You could probably do something more stax-oriented

>>54028774
Bring decks of varying power levels

>>54032731
>In anything with green.
Yeah, probably. There are much better 2 mana ramp and mana fixing spells if you need that.

>In non-green two color decks
Take 'em or leave 'em, could be what you need, could be a wasted slot, YMMV. Not auto-include, but not bad by any means.

>In almost any 3+ deck
Yeah, no, you're wrong. It lets your utility lands tap for colors, which lets you run more utility lands. In particular, I'd never run one of the FRF khans without at least the signet that taps for the colors in their ability.

>Making broad generalizations about a highly random, varied, and customizable game
Now that's fucking stupid.

>>54032901
>>54032844
Hmm, ok, fair enough. What can I do with Doubling Season and Earthcraft that IS in the realm of cEDH?

>>54032812
Earthcraft and squirrel nest. Infinite squirrels. Do it.

Might as well run blasting station to blast your opponents with squirrels.

>>54032812
I created mine when I wanted a more powerful kind of deck. It's been doing pretty well and I have had great deal of fun with it.
Still, I can't remember a single occasion where I've cast Doubling Season and most of the times I end up not even casting him, mainly if I get Mike on the field without another combo piece or Geralf's Messenger.

>>54032952
Doubling Season really isn't that great of a card unless you're running walkers. Eartcraft however is absolutely great card.

But then again, I feel like I'm not abusing DS properly, because usually I have no reason to cast it and tend to have better outlets for my mana

>>54032960
That's actually why I have Earthcraft. Had a squirrel deck back in the day. Sold my other copies, but hung on to one. So yeah, the nest would absolutely be in there, if for no other reason than nostalgia.

>Still, I can't remember a single occasion where I've cast Doubling Season and most of the times I end up not even casting him

Disheartening. I really like the card. Think I should go for a Rhys token spam instead? I'm trying not to double up on color combos and I've already got a Karametra enchantress/landfall deck, but Rhys seems fun.

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>6/6 Hellion for 5RR, bolts every creature on etb

>>54025791
>gw
>1 good/trash commanders
>3 commanders that are viable in turn 3 meta
wut
ok granted one of those three is Karametra stax and I honestly cant see that being better than selvala stax but just sayin', there are winning lists for many of them not to mention casual favorites like mrs. populate and rhys the redeemed

>>54033091
Every creature or every other creature?

>>54025878
>Naya being kind of underwhelming
>gahiji
>marath (so fucking broken)
>rith
>Mother fucking URIL

>>54033122
I'm not sure. Why would that matter?

>>54033091
Meh. If I want a big creature, there are cheaper and better, if I want the effect I'll run Anger of the Gods.

>>54033138
Because I run Furnace of Rath and I'd prefer not to drop something that kills itself on ETB.

>>54033091
>When Maw of Chaos enters the battlefield, it deals 3 damage to each other creature.

>>54033138
Furnace of Rath like effects.

>>54033160
Thank you.

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This looks like utter shit

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>up to two land cards
pretty good
>put them on the babblefield tapped
kinda meh
>if desert = 3+
shit in edh

>>54033174
good for mizzix? meh

>>54033174
Yup. It's going to outgrow your curve and then just sit there. Maybe useful in Vial Smasher, but eh.

>>54033214
Well with the sac deserts we saw earlier we might get some people playing Gitrog Deserts. Still probably shit.

>>54033220
>topdeck it
>it's utterly worthless

>>54033214
>ANY 2 land
FUCK ME

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>>54033174
its a shittier version of the bone-wand.

>>54033255
>Dark Depths+Thespian's Stage
>Coffers+Urborg in Golgari
>two Karoos

why the hell is food chain still legal?

>>54033332
Because you can use it to exile all your creatures to cast Craw Wurm.

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>>54033461
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>>54033214
I don't know where you're getting that text from, this card clearly says "Search your deck for Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Cabal Coffers and put them into play tapped." RTFC.

>>54033214
Any two land is amazing

>>54022617

What's your commander deck like? I had a Thalia deck but it wasn't very good, it always felt like I would put a bunch of bad effects on the board but have nothing to follow it up with, so I got targeted. Ended up converting it to Heliod.

>>54028672
Nath. Make them throw away everything and sob as your thousand strong army of elves slowly rape them.

>>54033174
>imminent doom
>takes goddamn forever