Starfinder General /sfg/

No fucking clue, I just want to be a goddamn robot. None of this Blade Runner shit, I wanna shout DANGER WILL ROBINSON and shoot niggas with a big Robot gun.

>Paizo

Its going to be shit just like Pathfinder, go back to your containment thread, faggot

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Will you join the march of the Azlanti Star Empire and God-Emperor Aroden?

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>>53937483

Agreed.

At least give us scifi fantasy version of Warforged!

>>53937517

>t. /pgg/ shilling faglord trying to stir shit

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>>53937483
I hear you, man.

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Mecha rules when?

Are the d20 Mecha rules good enough to use as a stand-in?

Is anyone else just not impressed by most of the bestiary entries?

I was hoping for something more focused instead of Star Wars style spamming every weird thing they can think of plus humans with funny faces.

Is Starfinder going to have spaceship mechanics and stuff like Rogue Trader does?

>>53937634

It does! There is even starship combat, where every class has a role during ship to ship combat.

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>>53937595
A friend of mine is under NDA, he's specifically looked at the rulebooks, and has told me there's no "mecha" type deals in the core book, but there is crap like power armor and terminator armor, ala Warhammer 40k.

the devs have gone on record that we'll be getting "gundams" sometime in the future.

>>53937624
Well, maybe it's because those 'bestiary entries' are literally just quick-play designs using the incredibly shitty fast monster creation rules from Pathfinder with only small nods to Starfinder's mechanical changes?

First contact is not a bestiary. Alien Archive will be, once we get access to it, but First Contact is utterly ignorable and terribly edited.

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Any big buff alien beastmen types? Or is it literally going to 'hurr lizardfolk, but IN SSPPAAACCEEE!!' ??

Even Warhammer 40k has more development for its Space Elves and Space Orcs than that.

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>>53937483
We all know we want to do the SUPERMAN

>>53937645
Why so butthurt anon?

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>>53937451

Frankly I just hope we get to actually use them. It always seems like no one ever plays to max level because it's implied you've become a demi god at that point. From the looks of it the tone of the levels have been dialed down so while you may (or may not) become a semi divine being you could just be a super badass instead.

But really i want to see what archetypes they have and how well they will mesh with the themes because there are already a few character I want to make just based on the class/themes alone.

>>53937671
There's going to be conversion rules for all the Pathfinder races, including the Rougarou
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/humanoids/rougarou/

>>53937704

mite be gud

Pretty much every monster, item, etc from Pathfinder can be copied & pasted to Starfinder mechanics-wise, right?

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But will there be....


ULFEN IN SPACE?

Is Starfinder using the Great Wheel?
I kind of want to aply a space tiefling.

>>53937692
>dialed down
I don't know if that's the tone I got from the stuff I've read and watched. It saeems more like they're doing away with some of the cheesy bullshit casters can do in pathfinder, and bringing warrior types up to par.

I did the math a little bit ago, and soldiers with a decent gun at level 10 can do more damage than a moderately well optimized blaster sorcerer, and with more staying power both in terms of offense and defense.

>>53937773

No, Paizo has nothing to do with The Great Wheel cosmology. It is not Spelljammer, either. It is the science fiction future version of their Pathfinder setting, now In Space!

>>53937784

The equipment rules alone bring some parity for warrior types. At least, it seems like they can rival or outshine anything a dedicated evocationfag could do in Pathfinder. Plus actual utility stuff, like the Operative's cloaking field.

>>53937773
Yes, demons, devils, angels, and whatever are still around. It's literally just the Pathfinder universe - which runs on a modified Great Wheel cosmology - but in the future, so magic, demons, and shit are all still around.

In fact, interstellar travel is done through exploiting the space between planes to get from one place to another. the trick is that you might drag some of said plane into the Drift with you, and then you'll be dealing with some seriously pissed Angels.

And, just to confirm, all pathfinder races will be able to be converted for Starfinder.

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What if I wanted to run a game like MGR, where everyone is a crazy cyborg ninja?

Is that possible in Starfinder?

Will it be compatible with Path of War?

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>>53937817

The Drift is literally the Warp from 40k.

I'd say its pretty far removed from The Great Wheel at this point which is great because Planescape sucks.

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>>53937663

Will it be uggo western style armor, a hybrid like modern Btech (pic related), or pure Jap-o-nese anime power armor?

>>53937827
>crazy cyborg ninja
Technically speaking, it's already possible in Pathfinder, just incredibly shitty. In Starfinder, I can't see any issues with cybering up as an operative or soldier and just going ham; a friend of mine has stated that melee weapons are a totally viable option, though maybe not as balls-to-the-wall amazing as some ranged weapons can get.

>Path of War
We'll need to spend some time doing proper conversions to make it work, but yes.

>>53937846
Being fair, it's the warp if it didn't replace your brain with spiders or turn your bones into pretzel sticks. You can actually stop in the Drift and hang out on floating islands there.

>>53937871
We don't know. The aesthetics haven't really been touched on yet, but everything we've seen so far (which is admittedly little) has had very strong Mass Effect overtones to it.

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>>53937872

What if I LIKE being raped by daemons for all eternity?

>>53937900

>mass effect art direction

its shit desu

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None of you have asked the most important question yet;


Will there be cute mecha fembots?

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>>53937872

>>53937902

Considering the nature of the Drift there could be a piece of the Abyss floating around with pissed off demons on it so you can go all Event Horizon

So if your thing is taking hot demon dick I hope you're into bondage with maggots and barbed wire.

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>>53937902
I don't believe there's anything stopping you from playing a Demon/Devil/Daemon cultist. Asmodeus, in fact, is still around even.

>>53937914
Eh, they have some decent stuff.

>>53937451
Spess wizards will rule, martials BTFO.

Is Starfinder going to kill Rogue Trader?

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>>53937934

IT COULD BE BETTER

>>53937964

Nigga, Rogue Trader is already dead

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>>53937966
Could be worse!

Plus, we haven't seen what they want to do with Power Armor or mechs at all, yet.

>>53937964

FFG lost the license. Its dead, friendo.

If you're lucky GW will make a new TTRPG set during the current Warhammer 40k: Dark Imperium timeline.

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>>53937988

You haven't shown me anything actually good so I'm gonna keep posting superior future armor.

>>53937576
>>53937580
>>53937679
I just want to be a damn robot with a gun. Why must I be disappointed at every turn?

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>>53938009

'Its too hard to relate to, anon. Now enjoy this human with LED panel lines on their skin and gender dysphoria! Its ssooo different but relatable! =^)'

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>>53938009

Think about how I feel, wanting to be a bio-armor monstrosity but even scifi fags are like 'DURR THAT'S GAY AND NOT REALISMS' at every turn.

You niggers all piss me off.

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>>53937997
I might post something good, if you tell me what you like.

>>53938009
It's paizo - they believe they can balance "mechanically good" versus "thematically awesome". Their literal excuse for not buffing paladin during the beta testing of Pathfinder was "It's a class with superior roleplaying opportunities", which lasted all of about half an hour before the playtesters instructed them exactly on why that was moronic.

>>53938024
>>53938042
I'm pretty sure he was just lamenting that we don't know if we'll be able to play robots other than Androids, which aren't the boxy sort of things I like either.

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>>53938048

I like western heavily inspired by Japanese aesthetics. Unironically. They do good robots, or at least good frameworks for them. But just a little too clean or oddly shaped for my tastes.

>>53938048

To be fair, they did make Paladin better, and its probably one of the best if not the best martial class.

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>>53938089
you mean like the mechs from Armored Core?

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What class/themes are you guys hyped to try?

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>>53938138

Or something like Landmates from Appleseed, and their equivalent from Ghost in the Shell.

Power armor I'd need to go digging, but I really like most of Infinity's aesthetic.

And cyborgs, hands down Metal Gear Rising ones look fantastic.

>>53938132
The trick is that that was only after the playtesters found it to be utter shit and complained very loudly. If I recall correctly, the same thing almost happened again with the Hunter from the Advanced Class Guide.

But they've decided to only do internal beta testing for Starfinder.

>>53938144
Soldier, hands down. I've been wanting to play a good martial for a while now.

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>>53938138

Something like this, for power armor.

>>53938144

Soldier or Operative both look really fun.

The one i'm scared for is Envoy. Looks like its pretty .. devoid of anything interesting.

>>53937663
>First Contact doesn't represent real monster rules in Starfinder.
Come on. That's obviously not feasible. RPG design mandates designing your challenges (in this case, benchmark monsters you'll base stuff off of) before your characters. Even if it didn't- or Paizo is so awful they screwed up something that basic- they've done playtesting and run demo games, this is known. Paizo has finalized stat blocks for monsters, it's not debatable.

Do you think they then went back and made a shitty hack for PFU monster generation to build monsters for First Contact specifically to fuck with you? Do you think that's actually more likely than this just being how monsters work in Starfinder? Face it, the future is CR 4, has 52 HP, 16 EAC, and 18 KAC.

>>53938173

>But they've decided to only do internal beta testing for Starfinder.

Didn't they do that for the Vigilante though? and it turned out to be probably the best non-caster, hands down.

>>53938225

I don't mind the standardized stat values, its easier to balance classes around. What I am afraid of is their abilities being boring and every fight still being 'you/the monster moves 5 feet and Full Attacks' if neither have spell equivalents.

>>53938212
>The one i'm scared for is Envoy. Looks like its pretty .. devoid of anything interesting.
See, I asked my friend who's under NDA about that - he said the only classes that don't look mechanically interesting at all are Mechanic and Technomancer, implying Envoy has something going good for it.

>>53938226
I'll give you that.

>>53938225
no, they're literally wrong for statblocks. Check the space goblin's AC values - they don't take into account the Dexterity ratings. One guy's sniper rifle deals 1d810+5 damage. The Fast Monster Creation rules are the only explanation for them getting so much shit wrong.

>>53938170
I prefer my mechs and robots to be more boxy looking, I admit, but you've got top-tier taste for cyborgs.

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Who else is excited for some GOOD HONEST SHOOTBANGS?

>>53937972
So is DnD 3.5 in that regard. Doesn't stop people from playing it.

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>>53938265

I think there is a place for both smooth-sleek, round and boxy mecha, even within the same universe.

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Does anyone else want to play a kitsune in space in Starfinder?

>>53938283

lol barely

Its all 5e and PF. There is no 3.5 community large enough to warrant attention anymore.

fucking 3.pf shit please go. stop ruining the hobby with your AIDS

>sage_goes_in_all_fields

>>53938290
At worst, you're looking at different manufacturers. It's a pretty solid excuse.

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>>53937483

FPBP

>>53938042
Can't you do bionic armor hulk as some form a synthisist summoner?

>>53938292

You know what, kitsunefag?

Sure.

I am actually more okay with gay ass foxes in space than I am you trying to shove them into not!Europe at every turn. Its space, who gives a fuck anymore. Go shove plasma casters up your butthole for all I care.

>>53938265
You may not know this, because nobody who doesn't work at Paizo has actually used the system beyond detecting how bad it is, but PFU's monsters don't use ability scores for anything other than skill and ability checks. They're not wrong, ability scores just flat out don't matter as much for monsters.

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>>53938314

You can, Aegis can sort of do it to, but its just /not the same/ RRREEEEEEEEEEEEEE


I'm a huge fan of RIFTS' Splicer off-shoot game but no one plays it, and most people give strange looks when you do anything biomechanical or body-horror related unless you're playing a monster of some sort.

The more I see of Starfinder the more it feels like Guardians of the Galaxy: Tabletop Edition

>>53938361

Throw in Mass Effect and 40k, and you'd be right.

>>53938361
They literally said the ysoki exist mostly for players that like Rocket Raccoon and want an expy. So, yeah.

>>53938368
Maybe some firefly and a pinch of Star Trek too.

>>53937736
Of course there will be Ulfen in space!

>>53938387
>>53938368
>>53938361

So its a shitty kitchen sink scifi setting just like how Pathfinder is a shitty kitchen sink fantasy setting.

Good to know.

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>>53938392

But will they have space wolves?

>>53938379
That makes the Ysoki seem incredibly topical.

>>53938422
Why NOT?

>>53938429

Paizo have always been topical and tried to cultivate customers that way.

>>53938455

OI MILK-SOP

GET YER WOLFIN' EYES OFF ME WOLF-SISTER

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>>53938404
I don't get why people think Golarion is bad. It's not amazing, no, but it's complex and allows for a lot of interplay. I suspect there's going to be some fairly similar overtones in Starfinder.

>>53938457
If the sales figures are anything to go by, it's worked.

>>53938379
>>53938429

I hate the fact they are type casted to be pyromaniac rocket raccoon wannabes. I just want my Envoy Bounty Hunter in a suit and a cowboy hat.

So...what would be the Paladin equivalent in Starfinder? I'd be a little bit disappointed if we didn't get a Holy Space Knight in blessed power armor or something.

>>53938476

Right, but catering the people getting into Marvel with the new Cosmic lineup aren't anything like the juggernaut of butthurt 3.5 grognards during the advent of 4e. And WotC has wised the fuck up on how it courts both its existing customers and normies, so its going to be a hard as fuck sell.

Scifi TTRPGs traditionally and statistically sell far, far worse than fantasy ones.

>>53938498

Depends on what archetypes are available but if you just want fighter dude who can do magic shit then there is some archetype that gives you spell casting so you could do that as a soldier. Possibly just being a soldier with a Priest theme or just being a Solarian

>>53938498
>So...what would be the Paladin equivalent in Starfinder?

Probably someone with the Priest archetype.

>>53938493

Nah chill. They aren't Rocket Racoons. They are actually Space Skaven.

>>53938529

>Small fluffy asshole race
>Announced when Rocket Raccoon is a thing people know exists

>>53938498
Soldier with the Priest Theme, most likely. you'll even be able to put the Holy Fusion (fusions = enchantments) onto shit like plasma cannons. they specifically said that the holy fusion is better than holy weapons in Pathfinder too - makes the weapon count as Good for DR, yes, but it'll also ignore the energy resistances of Evil undead, outsiders, and dragons.

>>53938556

Right, but they're 1.) rats and 2.) prone to backstabbing each other. Throw in clunky, unstable technology and a cultural zeitgeist to claim their manifest destiny and.. yeah no, they're Skaven.

>>53938513
you'd think so, and I would have thought so, but apparently Starfinder is pulling in people that like DnD 3.5 and Pathfinder but want something new after the massive slew of basically nothing but fantasy games for the D20 system.

>>53938594

Its all conjecture at this point. We will see where it goes.

Personally? I hope its actually successful, if only to open the floodgates for more scifi and cyberpunk TTRPGs to flourish. Fantasy has dominated the scene for far too long.

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>>53938579
The average man knows more about Rocket Raccoon than the Skaven.

>>53938620

Plebs gonna pleb.

Most of those normies aren't gonna be playing TTRPGs though. The few who do, have a good chance of hearing about Skaven after Total Warhammer 2 comes out. There is also Vermintide but lets not talk about it.

>>53938619
Agreed. Unfortunately, if Starfinder becomes the forerunner for that, we're likely going to be stuck playing it whether it's good or not since it'll be the most popular of the bunch.

that said, there is some evidence that the current class of nerds wants Starfinder; it's a pretty small cross-section of the gaming community, but the demand for tickets to paizocon to play starfinder was a bout triple the normal ticket requests they get for the con.

>>53938663

That's pretty good. Hopefully they deliver a product that can at least retain people long enough for good 3pp material to make up for its failings.

Path of War in space WHEN?!

>>53938144
Fucking Space dorfs in space getting drunk in spaceships shaped like giant fucking space axes in SPAEHS!

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What's the word on vehicles in Starfinder? Things like gunships, cars or motorbikes.

>>53937451
It's just going to be d20 Modern all over again.

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>>53938713

Why is it that dwarfs in space are just so much better than their fantasy counterparts?

>>53938764

>drive-by shitposter who can't even read previews to make an actual judgment

kay

>>53938778
Wait, is that actually Starfinder art?

Beta rules pdf when?

>>53938800

I wish.

>>53938743
Non-starship vehicles confirmed. No details available, aside from "the vehicle rules aren't shit."

>>53938800
Looks like it.

Imagine if Paizo actually has the balls to use nudity in their work, now.

>>53938800
>>53938822
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/snow-white-and-the-seven-dwarfs-space-opera-by-niconoff

Can I bolter & chainsword in Starfinder? Lightsaber & blaster maybe?

>>53938875

Yes and yes! They're trying to get every scifi-fantasy trope and nerd behind their game.

They're even going to release power armor and huge terminator-style armor. And eventually, mecha, or 'Gundams' as the dev so aptly called them.

>>53938875
You absolutely can, if the Barbarian (Savage Technologist) can get ported than sword-n-gun is completely viable.

And that's assuming stuff like Soldier don't got it baked into the class!

>>53938909

The Solarian might be the go-to class for gun & sword combos? Does Soldier even get anything melee-related?

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>>53938903
>The rules are tight, the eagerness is cool, the concepts they're introducing are everything we've ever wanted and has the heft of sensible design to pull them off

>But the setting is one of the trashiest fucking things I've ever seen

This is very reminiscent of when someone keeps bumping a shitpost page 9 thread.

>>53938933
>Does Soldier even get anything melee-related?

>There are 7 fighting styles to choose from—arcane assailant, armor storm, blitz, bombard, guard, hit-and-run, and sharpshoot

>proficiency (and eventually specialization) in basic and advanced melee weapons

You better believe it!

>>53938875
Well, the weapons are confirmed - no word on Bolters, but Chainswords, Plasma Swords (lightsabers), and laser guns are all available.

>>53938937
Conveniently, the setting is one of the easiest things to swap out if you hate Paizo's writing style.

>>53938937

The setting needs work. But it should be even easier to swap out your own shit because you aren't as confined to a world-map and its politics. Space is Freedom!

I wanna rub my dick across a Ysoki's twelve small rat titties!

>>53938954

>muh IPs

I think its doing fine, friendo. Why don't you go back to being butthurt in >>53937505 ?? :^)

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>>53938778
I think its because A dwarves are already a very advanced race in fantasy settings so they fit quite well in a world where science is a thing. There's also B that dwarves are a bunch of little men who constantly drink and party as well as fight with wepons twice their size. why? Because they fucking feel like it.
And this sort of peckish rogue alcoholic theme fits very well with the very silly concept of keeping fantasy sensibilities in a futuristic, modern world see: Gloryhammer space 1992.

>>53939026

I've always wanted to make Space Dwarfs who are like Terrans from StarCraft.

A bunch of exiled lunatics and criminals who went wildly off course and ended up not only settling a hostile corner of space, but TAMING it.

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>>53938903
TRANSFORMING MECHA-SPACEFIGHTERS WHEN?

>>53938997
But >>53937645 is already being butthurt enough for me. I probably won't need to buy salt again for a month!

>>53939081

Pretty sure they will have transformable mecha. If not, adapting personal vehicles -> mechs should be easy when we have rules for both.

Man, Starfinder sounds cool as hell! Where can I read all of the info myself?!

>>53939174

>not sure if shitpost...

>>53939174
It's not out yet sadly. the release date is set for August 17th.

>>53939081

Why does StarCraft 2 have to look so cool and yet be so, so bad???

>>53939201
So, where's all this information from exactly? That seems like a lot of reaching and hoping.

>>53939251
Details we get from people that have visited the cons to get their hands on the rules to look them over before release, playtesters, previews from the devs. there's a lot of sources for this information.

>>53939251

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/tags/starfinder

Someone else will have to post the monster preview pdf.

>>53939174
Now this is shitposting!

>>53939295

>nuuuhh its not my Dark Heresy/Traveller/Shadowrun waaaah

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Where were vehicle rules confirmed?

>>53939379
I have a friend who has read through the rules - not comprehensively, mind - but can't actually tell us a ton because he's under NDA.

He specifically told me he hopes the mechs aren't under the vehicle rules as they exist now, as they don't seem up to snuff for that kind of thing.

>>53939535

Well shit.

>>53937451
What is the chance that it will be Casters in Space and Martials will have to burn an entire feat tree to point and shoot a gun at something.

>>53939970

Sounds like they've gotten rid of that.

>>53939970
Nil. From what we've seen and been told, casters are going to be restricted to 1-6 casters with side abilities (like Bard, or Hunter) while, after doing some math, soldiers will be capable of dishing out more damage than dedicated blaster sorcerers. The utility of non-mages is yet to be seen, but with tech being ubiquitous, it's more more likely to have a lot of utility as a non-mage.

>>53940079

My only fear is that, given how paranoid some GMs are about giving players any sort of gear or fun toys, their weird grog attitudes might make it harder to play Starfinder for everyone seeing as its more gear dependent for all parties involved.

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>>53940130
that's actually a concern I can alleviate. Even if your GM is super stingy, as long as you have the cash for it, you can craft basically anything so long as you have Engineering, Life Science, and Computers as invested skills (or whatever the Spellcraft skill is called now for enchanting).

And even then, they said they want you to be able to keep a good gun and upgrade it over time if that's what you want to go for. customize the blaster your pa gave you.

On top of that, the game has some basic assumptions, such as the fact that all armor is enviro-suit capable, and everybody is running around with high tech weaponry, enemies like goblins included.

>>53939220
Because Blizz hires good artists, not good writers

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Can I get an awesome space pupper?

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>>53940571
Not that we know of.

I swear, if there's no way to get animal companions when the game comes out, I'll write up a damn archetype for it.

>>53940629
Just use Pathfinder rules?

>>53940926
I intend to use the pathfinder rules for the animal companion, yeah, but archetypes are available across all classes in Starfinder. Like DSP's class templates, except even broader.

That way you could be a mechanic, or a mystic, or even an envoy with a pet battlemonster.

Here's a Summary for the Weapon Stuff

Weapons can end up dealing at least 7d8 base damage before any modifiers or enchantments
Baked in damage boost tied to character level.

Lack of iteratives (which is alright with me given the above two points) makes chasing accuracy bonuses far less important

Finesse weapons are now "operative weapons" and the feat tax on them is gone.

Weapon enchantments, now called fusions, can be swapped between weapons freely.

The holy fusion overcomes energy resistance of some evil things

Weapon focus now applies broadly

Weapon levels sound really cool

Crits double all damage, and they are very emphatic on the "all" part

Soldiers are the only ones with inherent access to the full-Level-to-Damage boost weapons

Crits don't need confirmations anymore, but if you only hit on a nat 20 you don't get a crit

Inappropriately sized weapons inflict a -4 penalty to attack but don't change damage

Melee weapon handedness doesn't change the Strength bonus

Many weapons have crit riding effect, most common of which are burn, corrode, knockdown, deafen, staggered, bleed, and wound. There are a few others

Armor bonuses scale with equipment level, as does how long you can survive in a vacuum with that armor

There's a 12d10 slashing damage sword with 6d6 bleed on a crit and a 14d10 bludgeoning and fire hammer with knockdown on a crit as level 20 melee weapons

General assumption is that you can buy anything with an equipment level equaling Character Level +2

>>53941491
So what does this all mean?

Basically, I want you to think nu-XCOM over systems like Mass Effect or Rogue Trader. There's going to be a lot of status effects and ways to put them in, so rushing in with powerful Melee weapons is NOT a good idea. Much like in Gears of War, shooting someone from behind the safety of a chest high wall is usually the better option.

>>53941512
Still, having a backup melee weapon seems like a good idea, since if some kind of alien gribbly gets all up in your face, you want to be able to shank it and move on.

Cover also seems like it's going to play a greater role than it did in Pathfinder, so the XCOM comparison is even more apt.

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>>53940079

I believe there will be archetypes that allow casters to go higher than sixth level casting but then again there are archetypes that will allow anyone to be a caster essentially.

Not only that, there is no divine/psionic/arcane split mechanically so magic can be fluffed in whatever manner you want so if your soldier took your Phrenic Adept (I think that's what it was called?) you could say it's divine power and be the paladin (without the smite) or be a super cool and edgy spell sword/gun type of dude.

That said, I really want to see the Solarion and the Technomancer although I'd wish they'd finish the previews of all the classes in general.

>>53941538
I hear you, man. the two classes I'm most interested in are mechanic and Soldier; we got one, but I really want to see the mechanic in action.

>>53941708
Do you think they'll screw up the solarian? It sounds damn cool.

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>>53942070
From what I've heard, the Solarion is one of the good ones, and being a martial, will be able to make use of all the fancy tech and equipment to be kickass. We'll have to see how it ends up. I really hope it's up to the hype.

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>>53942089
So it's a gish in spaaaaaaaaaace?

>>53942197
Not rerally a gish; they don't get any spellcasting. More like a 1pp version of the soulknife. Given it's core, I imagine it'll get a lot of rules support, both 1pp and 3pp

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>>53942214
Is there any reason to use DSP any more? I mean, standard action attacks are core now.

Is DSP BTFO and on suicide watch?

>>53942264
Nah. they'll just have to update their books for the new system.

>>53942264
Well you know. DSP doesn't HAVE any content for Starfinder. So.

There's that.

>>53942264
All that does is make the DSP books not have to deal with "well, we gave them all their awesome shit but turns out everybody just wants to use a damage boost stance and full attack".

I hope they drop some more info about the nature of the Gap and on Absalom station. I sort of get this Ravnica vibe out of it considering how big it's suppose to be (or implied to be) and I'd like to know what remnants of Golarion culture survived into Starfinder. Are there going to be LIttle Tian Xia cities? Will parts of Absalom being Andoran?

This sort of stuff is essential because I want to get into the GM game and I have an idea for a campaign but I'm missing key details.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xIdRnyjYglnAOIzn38j4LYqwKfSalfs8pN5zJRJRYUI/edit?usp=sharing
This link should be added into the next OP. It's the compilation of known info on Starfinder.

Have they said whether Starfinder is just set in Golarion's star system, or are there others?

>>53942622
There will be travel between systems.
Travelling within one solar system takes 1d6 days and has 1% chance of hitting PERILS OF THE WARP (aka random encounters in the Drift)
Travelling to "Near" Solar Systems (aka those with a lot of beacons adjacent) takes 3d6 days and has a 10% chance of shit hitting the fan.
Travelling to "Vast" Solar Systems (aka those without many adjacent beacons) takes 5d6 days and has a 25% to 50% chance of shit hitting the fan.

Travelling from anywhere in the galaxy to Absalom station takes 1d6 days and has 0% chance of problems.

More advanced drift engines reduce the travel time significantly.
For example, the premiere reveal showcased an x4 speed engine, meaning that all travel times are 4 times faster (no rounding).

>tfw just gonna steal the setting for another system

>>53942622

There are other places beyond the Pact Worlds. I believe in Obo's backstory the Vesk have an empire comprised of several planets so obviously they are not wiithin Golarion's solar system and then there is the planet the Kathaas come from for instance.

Literally the first thing that comes to mind is Outlaw Star so you could have whole areas ruled by literal empires and what not which is something I intend to be a thing.

I'm glad we can now talk about Starfinder without having to wade through dozens of posts of degenerates jacking off over Pathfinder ERP games.

>>53942684
Yeah. I'm enjoying this thread so far.

>>53942684

I actually enjoy the lewd from pfg just hated the fucking celeb player drama.

>>53940629
Mechanic is literally the pet class.

>>53937526
...the real Azlanti, or just, y'know... the knockoffs?

>>53937817
>and then you'll be dealing with some seriously pissed Angels.
How do they feel about this whole thing, considering that they've always had access to the whole universe by means of planar travel?

>>53938422
Ulfen are basically vikings, and I have a hard time to imagine that the Ulfen, being one of the most detailed (but incredibly under-used) races in Pathfinder would not make it to Starfinder.

>>53938476
>Golarion
>complex
Are you joking or just sheltered, desu?

>>So how does Nonlethal damage relate to the SP/HP system?
>Short form -- no matter how much damage it does, a nonlethal attack can't kill you.
>It is not tracked or healed separately. It just isn't, itself, lethal.
Starfinder apparently switched to 4e-style non-lethal damage from pf-style non-lethal damage.
I appreciate this change.

>>53938528
>Probably someone with the Priest archetype.
Are archetypes generalized now? I can't even imagine how that'd work, and I'd miss class archetypes, it was one of my favourite things about Pathfinder (...which I've never played, just made countless characters for).

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>>53942684
When will we have our first Starfinder lewdgame Roll20?

>>53938476
Golarion is bad because there's nothing original in it. It's just a bunch of theme park versions of places that existed in other works of fantasy or various times in Earth's history, all with the depth of a puddle.

>>53942918

I'm sure there will be class specific ones but the general idea is that archetypes are universal. That said the priest is a theme which is different from an archetype.

>>53942918
Simple. All classes get features at same levels.
Archetypes just say "you lose your class feature at level X, or, if you're a spellcaster, you get one fewer spell known".
>>53942929
Fuck off to your containment thread: >>53942059

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>>53942929

....How lewd are we talking here?

>>53942949
Back to the containment thread you go.

>>53942955

Go suck a dick, you're probably one of those assholes who complain about anime on a fucking anime board.

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>>53942949
PSO meme tier.

>>53942707
But what if you want an actual pet?

Actually, good question here. What's the status of Rangers and Druids and Barbarians? You know. Nature-stuff? I wouldn't mind to play a Space-druid with a Space-Cat, turning into a Space-bear. Summoning Space-bees.

>>53942973
I complain about lewd shit on a blue board, faggot.
Lewd games belong on a red board like /soc/ or /d/.
>>53942979
>But what if you want an actual pet?
There will probably be some options. Or, well, you could refluff or homebrew the Mechanic pet into being an animal instead of robutt.
>What's the status of Rangers and Druids and Barbarians? You know. Nature-stuff?
Their status is pretty much "the fluff of existing classes is mutable". You can flavour a Soldier as a Barbarian or a Mystic as a Druid. There are no real classes for them, however.

>>53937451
I was excited for this until I realized it wouldn't be Kill-Six-Billion-Demons in Space. Now I've just made myself sad.

In all honesty I'm still excited to see how this all shakes out. A good d20 style SciFi game has always been a dream.

>>53942976

Not familier will need references

>>53942979
The primary "caster" is the mystic so I imagine there are nature themed spells in the game so fluffing your mystic as a druid seems entirly doable. Actually now that I think about it I like the idea of a druid ecologist who's a scientist and a spellcaster. Not to mention I thin there is a group of eco terrorist who use organic weapons and ships or some shit like that and if not you can make it up

As for barbarians? I mean I don't know what would make for Rage powers but I've never been a fan of barbarians getting their rage from nature powers or some shit. Being a soldier fucked up on combat drugs though is something I imagine will be a thing and finally I think the Operative fills in for the Rogue/Ranger given the options for adding spellcasting.

>>53942991
With archetypes being universal themes and no mechanical/narrative ties in classes, my excitement took a nosedive desu.

I like it when the mechanics match the concepts, and "just refluff it" usually doesn't cut it, because there are usually developmental base assumptions ate the core of a class or similar.

>>53943073
Themes and archetypes are two different things.
Archetypes are kind of like class templates.
Themes just give you thematic shit for free and everyone has a theme.
I think you're supposed to derive your flavour mostly from archetype and theme rather than class.

>>53942991
>flavour a Soldier as a Barbarian
But a Barbarian without rage is not a barbarian, and if a Soldier gets rage, he's a Barbarian, not a Weapons Master, so to say. Refluffing can't fix that.

>>53943098
Even if you don't have the rage class feature, you can still flavour your character as being enraged in combat. It's a non-issue.

>>53943098
>being this concerned about what is written in the tiny box that says "class" on your character sheet

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>>53943098

Seriously? I mean Guts is the farthest thing from some loincloth wearing idiot who gets mad easily but I would definetly say he has something like Rage even if he's more like a professional soldier/warrior.

>>53943181
Okay, so pick the soldier and then pick the archetype that gives rage (assuming those two things exist).

What is the problem exactly?

>>53943203

I'm not the one having the issue with it as I agree, just pick and archetype that gives you something like rage and go with soldier and go to town.

My gripe was about how the barbarian seemingly can't be anything other than a drooling idiot who hits real good and don't need no book learnin.

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>>53937483
I'm really hoping for proper Warforged and Dragonborn for Starfinder. Pathfinder never really got them, and I always hated it.

It's funny that I originally hated the Dragonborn, but now I love the idea of cast-based dragon civilizations with dragons at the top, a dragonborn warrior caste, and a kobold population.

Would work crazy good in Starfinder.

I'm imagining a mash-up between Classical Sparta and the Indo-Aryan High Culture. In space.

And the Warforged origin story works absolutely perfectly in Starfinder. A species of AI:s modeled after their creators, created for a war that's long over, endowed with sentience, trying to find their place - often by affixing Megaman-like utility-rifles to their arms, or mount shoulder-cannons, obviously.

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>>53943715
>often by affixing Megaman-like utility-rifles to their arms, or mount shoulder-cannons, obviously.

Yeah, I mean, *obviously*.

>>53943203
So the archetype "themes" are basically just a secondary class that's added to the main class?

That could work, I guess, if so. Just add a Barbarian Class to the Fighter Class, a kind of built-in gestalt created from two different pools, a "class" and a "theme"?

Could work, could work. Could still end up feeling wrong, I think, especially when we start talking about different kinds of barbarians - urban barbarian, nature-based barbarian, etc.

And barbarian is obviously just used as an example here.

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I found a source of good info on how it works in Starfinder:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/06/starfinder-all-about-archetypes-and-themes.html

Basically, you pick a core Class.

Then you must pick a Specialization, which is a lot like archetypes from Pathfinder, and are specific to each class. You need to take a Specialization, because they determine aspects of your core Class.

Then you pick an Archetype if you want to. Archetypes are generalized and applicable to all classes, by forcing you to give up base features of the core Class at levels 2, 4, 6, 9, 12, and 18 (or less, but those are the eligible levels).

Then you must pick a Theme. Themes are a bit like Traits and Backgrounds in Pathfinder, but they're mandatory and also add class features to level 1, 6, 12, and 18, and give you an attribute bonus.

Hopefully, Starfinder will also have Traits, just like Pathfinder does.

I'm going to miss class-specific archetypes, and I think that they're really tying themselves down to a very rigid system here, rather than the archetypes of of Pathfinder, but overall, I think it all sounds pretty solid.

For example, I can see a Soldier having a Specialization as a Barbarian, and then you can take an Archetype to be more like a "ranger"- or "druid"-type character, or you could take an Archetype that makes you more of a "rogue"-ish urbanite brawler. And then you add a theme to establish your day-job - are you a bounty hunter, a mercenary, or an outlaw? Or are you just a really, really, really angry ace pilot?

Consider me officially re-psyched.

>>53943908
Not all classes get specialisations. Envoy doesn't.

>>53942929
When you convince XS to run them instead of applying to them.

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>>53943908
>soldier class
>rage specialization
>ranger archetype
>really, really, really angry ace pilot theme
That sounds p. cool desu.

>>53943924
>Not all classes get specialisations. Envoy doesn't.
That's pretty sad, but it might just be temporary. It's pretty obvious that Paizo has made the system like this to be able to expand upon it in order to sell more books and not feel like they're running on empty like Pathfinder (where they finally started to just churn out new base classes because fuck the police).

The modular approach makes a lot of sense, though, because they get to essentially create new classes without actually having to churn out new base classes, and content can always be expanded upon, without anyone really being completely neglected due to class inflation (there can only be so many archetypes in a supplement, after all).

Paizo gets an excuse to churn out massive amounts of content and just keep it going, and we get a good system to play around with to make interesting characters. I can't wait to make a Ratling Rage-Rogue that jumps out of the shadows and hatefucks someone to death.

>>53944010
I mean, Envoy is still modular.
It's just that most classes get both specialisations and talents, while Envoy gets only talents.
And, desu, Envoy so far seems like the worst class from everything shown so far.
It will be something like Core Rogue, I'm afraid.

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It really does bother me that he doesn't tie his shoes. I can't think of anything less operative.

>>53944022
Is the thing that the Envoy only gets Talents (and also, what are Talents...?) explicit, or does it simply not have any Specializations?

Because if it's explicit ("Envoy does not have Specializations", etc) I don't expect that they'll get any later either. But that would be pretty fucking stupid.

>>53944036
>not realizing they are actually nano robotic sensory tendrils for detecting micro electrical impulses in space station/starship flooring to inform him of piezoelectric discharge from magnetic boots of heavy impact footfalls at a distance
Silly normie.

>>53944045
Presumably, talents will be like rogue/slayer talents, except geared towards Starfinder.

>>53944045
It's pretty explicit that it has only two class feature - talents and that stupid "+1d6 to some skills" mechanic. Nothing else, not a single other class feature.

>>53943908
Sounds a little bit like Legend's tracks, except a bit more rigid.

>>53944046
But what if he trips? Or if they get stuck in an escalator? Or snags on a door?

>>53944078
They don't, the advanced AI moves the tendrils out of the way.

>>53944053
Wow, that's fucking shit. Hopefully they'll fix it before release.

>>53944078
Did you not read the "robotic" part? They MOVE. They get out of the way and avoid dangerous issues all by themselves.

>>53944087
We have zero idea what the talents do, and if they have no other features, they'll probably be comparable to class features. If we're lucky. If not, well, at least soldiers got some cool shit.

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>>53943924
>>53944053
>Envoy: "Envoys are leaders who help their allies and manipulate others. Envoys are known to work as starship captains and con artists, with some becoming celebrities or even cult leaders."
>doesn't get a bardesque specialization
>doesn't get a military specialization
>doesn't get a politician specialization
>doesn't get a transgalactic drug lord specialization

>>53944094
But can we trust them to? They're attached to me, and performed automated functions, but can I trust them not to snag? It all sounds a bit fishy to me. I'm not sold.

>>53944110
>but we have no idea what talents are
>so I'll just assume these things aren't in the talents
>because I'm psychic and know all

>>53944129
I'm not saying they aren't, but even if they were, that could be said about anything. Why not just give out a bunch of talents, then, to everyone, and scrap specializations and archetypes and classes and themes?

>being this autistic and still somehow staying alive

>>53944114
Not my problem. If you can't trusty your equipment, then don't use any. Go be a solarian, you paranoid ninny.

>>53943908
And some people still think that Pathfinder and Starfinder will be fully compatible.

Poor deluded retards.

>>53944166
You're the one complaining about things we have no clue about because of something you don't understand because it hasn't been published yet, anon. I don't think you have any right to complain about anyone else being autistic when you're spazzing out about game mechanics you haven't read.

>>53944191
>You're the one complaining
I'm not complaining, but you are complaining because you believe others are complaining. I'm saying that if it looks like shit, it's probably shit. If it's not shit, we can replace practically everything with a feat- or talent-based system and just not have class features.

Meanwhile, you're saying nothing, you're just bitching and being autistic over people discussing potential issues.

>this thing sounds pretty questionable
>yeah, that looks like it could turn out pretty bad
>I would prefer it if X worked like Y
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE DON'T KNOW BEHEAD THOSE THAT INSULT PAIZO ARGUMENT FROM IGNORANCE EERASdölkearASDasd!

Guess which one of those you are.

>>53944191
>things we have no clue about
That's not true. We do have clues. We know, for example
>it has only two class feature - talents and that stupid "+1d6 to some skills" mechanic
And that's what we were discussing. Sure, it can change, but we can only discuss things based on how they are announced as being presently.

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>>53944036
I fixed it for you. It still looks like he's itching to twist an ankle, though. He really needs to tie things down.

Huh, I just realized that none of the iconics for Starfinder is human:

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/nynb9

>>53944460
The Envoy iconic is a lesbian human.

Speaking of warriors and casters, is there going to be anything like Bloodragers and Bloodrager/Sorcerer bloodlines? I've always loved that aspect of things, and I would love to play a science-fantasy bloodrager punching the shit out of shit 'n' shieet.

>>53937784
>It seems more like they're doing away with some of the cheesy bullshit casters can do in pathfinder, and bringing warrior types up to par.

I mean, it makes sense. In sci-fi, warrior types can fire cannons and throw grenades, and rogues and scoundrels can use jump-packs and teleporters and stuff.

>>53944481
Nah, looks like an eskimo half-breed or something.

>lesbian
Because of course she is, with her purple hair with pink strand and holding her belt like a jock-strap. Full-on SocJus trash.

>>53944538
Don't forget that she has differently-coloured eyes.
A literal Mary Sue.

>>53944567
>SocJus trash
>Mary Sue trash
It's like they're following a checklist of awful.

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>>53944627
>>53944567
It's almost like they're attempting to make the "Iconic" characters into individuals they can soapbox through!

More seriously, though, I've never encountered a game where Iconics actually matter, so I recommend just ignoring the stupid ones and focusing on the interesting, like Obozaya.

>>53944660
>sponsored by monster energy

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>>53938713
>>53938778
>>53939026
>>53939076
Currently the only official Starfinder dwarf art.

>>53944660
>individuals
That's just it, though, individuals and snowflakes are not the same. There's really nothing that makes someone less of a character than to stick "unique" aspects onto them until all meaningful substance is lost.

But you're not wrong in that they can be easily ignored, it's just that shit like this often become symptomatic of the path a company is going, and it doesn't bode well for the quality of the rest of the product. Most of us know how this usually goes, by now.

>Obozaya
I kinda like the Vesk, but they also annoy me, because they're basically occupying the thematic place where I think dragonborn should be. And I think that's on purpose, but if so, Paizo still don't seem to get that lizardfolk aren't dragonborn.

>>53944797
As I recall, we actually have a planet ruled over by dragons, with sapient sub-dragons forming the next rung down of society, with elves and kobolds below that. We just haven't heard much about them in the time leading up to when Starfinder is released.

>>53944822
That would be amazing, because that could be pretty much what I described earlier.

>>53944901
Just looked it up again - the dragons don't rule an entire planet in Golarion's solar system, but Triaxus has an entire continent in Pathfinder's time where the dragons rule the masses as generals and leaders, with their lesser kin making up the lower nobility and humanoids being serfs and peasants.

Why does this exist when numenera exists? Are pathfinder players just that unwilling to learn a new system?

>>53944567
Someone doesn't know what the term Mary Sue means. Hint, it's only about fanfiction characters inserted into established settings, and how the setting is rewritten to make them the most important character ever and how everyone likes them, even the badguys.

And what's wrong with making your eyes different colors in the far future? Or having not natural hair colors?

>>53944538
Ha ha racism, well memed my friend!

>>53944797
They can't use dragonborn as those are WotC IP. Vesk are the best you're going to get unless you homebrew them in.

>>53944968

I had an idea for a dragon based kingdom that was feudal and sort Bretannion/Arthurian in nature.

The actual dragons sit at the top of the rung as gods. Half dragons would be the nobility that ruled in a round table sort of fashion and the humans would be the denizens but with the requirement that they are A members of the cult that worships dragons B. they have a chance to marry into one of the dragon families and become a branch family essentially although only their children would actually inherit the noble titles and rights while the progenitor of the brranch family is basically set for life until they passed away.

Beyond that, I fully intend to have a white dragon be a Pirate King with his own ship massive enough to have a frozen environment inside of it that he lives in when not on his own frozen planet that he rules his pirate empire from.

>>53945022
Because it's a completely different genre, you nob. Pathfinders rules and systems have long been proven to be terrible at doing guns and shit, to say nothing for the fact that it lacks decent environmental and vehicle rules, and high tech equipment being a nightmare to get a hold of. they're also taking the opportunity to fix a number of outstanding balance issues (such as 9th level casters being a thing in core).

>>53945064
That sounds pretty swanky.

>>53945063
>Hint, it's only about fanfiction characters inserted into established settings,
Definitions change, dumbass.
You won't find many retards such as yourself who think Mary Sue only applies to fanfiction.

>>53945148
Yes, words change meaning, but when the term goes from something actually useful to merely being" female character who is a protagonist and actually does stuff that equals her male companions, and I don't like her", the definition is shit.

>>53942833
The screenshot that shows off their descriptive text is blurry as hell, but I was able to make out some sentences here considering I have SPECIAL EYES.

The gist of it was the Azlanti Star Empire is a recent arrival to the Pact Worlds, First Contact having occurred only 50 years before campaign start. They are an extremely prideful, expansionist Empire that wishes to see their borders encompass the entire galaxy, if not the entire universe.

What this says to me is that the Azlanti from Golarion were BROUGHT there by the Aboleth, straight up Ancient Aliens-tier bullshit. The Azlanti were always extraterrestrials.

>>53945177
No, in this case it fits, because while it's not Fanfiction, Navasi is clearly somebody's pet character, and checks off a shitload of the Mary Sue tickboxes. She even has being a corporate princess as part of her backstory for god's sake.

>>53945148
There's even fewer retards who think that a character with heterochromia and literally no other traits is a Mary Sue.

>>53945201

And guess what she could have zero involvement in your game but I imagine people who get triggered by anything that makes them think of sjw can never let it go

>>53945202
And then there is this, of all the things you can harp on about having different colored eyes that don't mean anything except being window dressing is not worth flipping your shit over

>>53945148
I believe at this moment it's important to describe the definition of a Mary Sue.

A Mary Sue is not simply a character inserted into an established setting, and it's not simply a heterochromatic purple-haired gold-ticket lesbian. A Mary Sue is a character who, for one reason or another, everyone they meet loves or at the very least admires them, and the only people who do not are either social pariahs or the villain. The classic Mary Sue is not a master-of-all abilities, but rather shows unnatural skill in one or two areas (typically something important yet clearly supportive, like healing or mechanics) and needs their legion of fans and friends to carry them the rest of the way. The classic Mary Sue was, after all, a Star Trek character named Mary Sue who worked in medical.

>>53945201
Using the established definition above, could we reasonably say Navasi is designed where all the "good" or even "neutral" guys are meant to love her, and the only people who don't are clearly super assholes or evil?

>>53945201
Does she check off the trait of being fanfiction? Because that was the central most part of being Mary Sue. It's what gave the criticism of being Mary Sue its actual weight instead of shit that is fairly common for protagonists.

4chan really does like to strip the meanings of certain words and repurpose them in way that shits all over characters that don't comfort to a very specific form.

The first three paragraphs read like your average rich kid wannabe Robin Hood who is fairly headstrong. The rest basically plays out like someone who runs into the reality of the world and then has that defining moment when they assume the actual mantle of Robin Hood.

She colors her hair and gets tattoos to honor her dead lover, and to form a distinctive identity by which to recognize her. I really don't see how that's so Mary Sueish.

>>53945337
More to the point, she exists in a space fantasy setting. Frankly coloring her hair and getting tattoos is probably mundane compared to some of the stuff she could do.

>>53945377
Exactly, getting heterochromatic eyes is probably a simple affair of going to a body sculptor and doing a simple 30 minute treatment. Like getting a tattoo that glows bioluminescent colors, or changing your fingernails into small claws.

>>53945337
>She colors her hair and gets tattoos to honor her dead lover

So... She's literally Lesbian Space Ameiko.

Holy shit, it all checks out; fun-loving young woman from an estranged wealthy family with a dead lover she mourns through body modification

>>53945337
>>53945429

So she is a Mary Sue AND an author's personal canon waifu.

>>53945463
So Mary Sue basically means competent character who is female and happens to have unusual coloration. What's so bad about a character being a 4chan Mary Sue then?

>>53945337
>fairly common for protagonists
Hahaha, what kind of fucking "Young Adults" trash do you read?

>>53945377
Going with "It could've been worse" hardly does the character any favours.

>>53945463
Partially true, she's an author's personal canon waifu. She does not meet the requirements of being a Mary Sue, unless we've seen her interact with a good person who just doesn't like her.

Here, lemme offer a quick example of an actual Mary Sue in fiction: Rey from The Force Awakens. You know her, right? The woman that bypasses the character development by fixing the Millennium Falcon better than Han Solo?

By the halfway point of the movie, name one good or "neutral" character that did not like her. You know, like Han Solo was to Luke in A New Hope (he was just a job) or Princess Leia (he was just some bumpkin.) She's admired by Han Solo and Chewbacca, she's got Finn all gushy-gushy, Leia is implicitly trusting of her (and hugs her first when news of Solo's death reaches her) the list goes on.

>>53945477

Ahahahaha are you niggas gonna start defending Bella Swan next? You know she an't real, right? That no amount of White Knighting is gonna get that bitch to touch yo' peanut dick? Bitch an't real hahahaha.

>>53945181
Kinda gay, but on the other hand, I want to play Azlanti...

>>53945409
>getting heterochromatic eyes is probably a simple affair of going to a body sculptor

Actually her story says it's just a contact lens. Which is even simpler.

>She's literally Lesbian Space Ameiko.

Given that the Pathfinder devs have more-or-less confirmed that all Pathfinder characters are to be considered bisexual unless you're given a reason to think otherwise, and I see no reason why this shouldn't apply to Starfinder, she's probably just Space Ameiko.

>>53945463
I just finished reading her story and so probably have the freshest perspective of anyone here.

Nothing in it suggests Mary Suedom in the slightest. Mary Sues need two critical things (beyond being fanfiction):

1) The universe has to seem to bend over backwards in order to accommodate them and ensure that they always succeed
2) Everyone has to instantly love them.

Navasi fails to meet either requirement. Her backstory has plenty of failures to go along with her successes, and her backstory features plenty of people who have all sorts of feelings about her.

She's just a reasonably competent scoundrel. Nothing more.

>>53945543
Bella Swan is a Mary Sue (since her character started out as a fanfiction character for an established setting besides the other problems with her), and many people actually defend against needless denigration because it's the decent thing to do, not becasue were pathetic horny teenageres who only do nice thigns to hopefully get sex, like you do.

>>53945629
>to hopefully get sex

Fuck, it's not worth it, dudes. Like, no joke, a good pizza is way better, and it doesn't cheat on you or ruin your fucking life.

>>53945568
>>53945629

What's it like to have taste so full of shit you could fertilize all the farms across North America with it?

>>53945644
I really like pizza but I'm on a diet, and also, you never had good sex if you think a pizza is better (or I never had really good pizza, I guess, that is possible).

>>53945644

>waaah women are mean

Fuck off with it already pathetic cunt. You've already shit up previous threads with your mangina moaning.

>>53945629
>many people actually defend against needless denigration because it's the decent thing
Yeah, no, the decent thing to do is to drown Sues before they spawn, and fire people who create them, not reward or defend them. There is nothing decent in what you're doing.

>>53945629
>since her character started out as a fanfiction character for an established setting

Isn't that the 50 Shades chick? Twilight has innumerable problems, but I'm nearly certain it is original fiction, whereas I do know that 50 Shades of Grey started its life as a Twilight fanfiction.

>>53945656
Tastes like perspective and restraint.

From another angle:
1) What, in your opinion, makes a character a Mary Sue? Because it does not seem to match up to any real-world definition used anywhere outside of 4chan, and not even all of 4chan at that.
2) How is Navasi a Mary Sue under that definition?

>>53945568
>all Pathfinder characters are to be considered bisexual
I'm starting to see why so many consider Pathfinder cancer in and of itself.

>>53945552
You can still play Azlanti, like a defector or merchant visiting the Pact Worlds.

>>53945702

You seem really flustered that we're making fun of your waifu.

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>>53945702
>What makes a character a Mary Sue
Literally first result on Google. Not that fucking hard.

>>53945730
Your deflecting because you can't support your argument.

>>53945739
>he thinks there's only one person that could possibly hate his mary sue waifu

>>53945792
>doesnt realize that the word Your can be singular or plural
>thinks that pointing out there are multiple people is some major revelation when we can see the IP numbers
>is still deflecting

>>53945730
She's not my waifu. This is actually the first Paizo-related thread I've been in in months. I normally hang out in Star Trek or Star Wars or verses threads, telling people why Heartless beat Tyrannids or Carmen Sandiego beats the Ruinous Powers.

>>53945733
This is a horrible list as I have to find your requirements buried in it rather than having you actually spell them out clearly and concisely, which I think is deliberate on your part becuase if you did you'd have to admit that Navasi isn't a Sue. Nevertheless, I'll give it the old college try based on what I can glean from your post.

>Name
Navasi is simple enough and not strange by the standards of the setting. Not Mary Sue.

>Age
Navasi's backstory establishes her as older than 18 (she left her parent's home at the eve of her 18th birthday then spent years as a raider), though it's not concrete on how much older. Probably not Mary Sue, though, as she looks like someone in her mid- to late-20s.

>Hair
Purple. And this thing you posted establishes that merely having a weird hair color doesn't make you Mary Sue if it's normal for the setting, which it is in Starfinder or, Hell, Earth (since it's not natural, just dye, unlike in your post where Ami Machida has naturally green hair). So not a Sue.

>Eyes
Wears a blue contact lens. Hardly Mary Sue-ish. A Sue would have natural two-colored eyes.

>Species
Just human. Not Sue.

>Mother & Father
Ordinary (if wealthy) people, not superbeings or preexisting characters. Not Sue.

>Profession
Space pirate, which is a normal thing in the setting. Not Sue.

>Secret Powers
None. Not Sue.

>Companions
Other space pirates, which makes sense. Not sue.

>Weaknesses
Made a number of poor life choices (namely she could probably do more good as a rich woman in Absalom than as a space pirate). So definitely has them, and therefore definitely not a Sue.

>>53945837

Ah, so you are autistic.

>>53945827
Uh, hate to point this out, but while "your" can be singular or plural, you did misuse it. It should have been "you're". Which can also be singular or plural. I wouldn't normally call you out on it, but as you made a specific point of pointing it our yourself...

For the record, I'm >>53945702, so I'm on the "Navasi isn't a Sue" side.

>>53945853
Maybe, but at least I can string together a list of coherent reasons as to why Navasi isn't a Sue, which is more than you can do to defend the idea that she is.

>>53945867

You have already lost at life by being autistic.

>>53945876
Not that nigga, but homie, you're on /tg/ arguing with a nigga. If you AREN'T diseased, that's way the fuck worse. You could've made something of yourself, but you just CHOSE not to, playa.

>>53945876
I may have lost at life, but I appear to be winning the argument, since you're not longer even trying to defend your stance. I'll take it.

>>53945908

A pyrrhic victory if there ever was one.

>>53945890

Nah is just funny to see him jump up and down screaming 'I win I win!'

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Can we get back to talking about space dorfs and fox aliens instead of having a pussyshit fit over a character nobody will pay attention to other than being on the cover? Can we just do that?

>>53945936 >>53945926
I take little pleasure in it since you never even properly defended your side. The entire argument consisted of:

>Navasi is a Mary Sue
>>>No she isn't, as a Mary Sue is [this], [this], and [this]
>Words change meaning over time
>>>Okay, so what do they mean to you
>You're defending your waifu
>>>Okay, but what is a Mary Sue to you?
>[Posts pic]
>>>That pic is unhelpful, but from what I can glean from it, Navasi still isn't a Mary Sue for [reasons]
>You have autism
>>>Are you even going to try and defend your stance
>You lose at life because you have autism
>>>Okay then

Except there were a few more people involved, but it boils down to that.

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>>53945978
Do white men exist in Starfinder? I've yet to see art for them.

>>53946035
We've only seen a single human, period, as far as I'm aware.

>>53946035
No.

Yes you fuckign dingus, of course there is. Its just that the art isnt going to be all white people for once. And we've only had a few pieces of art anyway.

>>53946055
The Theme portraits show a couple black guys and white girls.

>Yet it was in one particular woman that Navasi truly found herself again. Purple-haired and tattooed, with eyes like blue supergiants, the newcomer was outspoken against those in power.

>>53946517

NOT A MARY SUE!!!!

but she is yet another example of obnoxious SJW pandering Paizo characters. Really funny when you consider how privileged her background is!

>>53946035

No because MRA incels like you arn't worth the effort of marketing towards.

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>>53946517
>with eyes like blue supergiants

Jesus Christ.

>>53946839

http://paizo.com/threads/gbiq6bh4/favorites?Meet-the-Iconics-Navasi#discuss

Even Paizo's best award-winning writers think Navasi is a well thought-out and wonderful addition to their game universe. Why don't you love her as well, anons? ;)

>>53946670
>>53946839
She even explicitly dates the avatar of Weydan, one of the major deities.
From her backstory:
>Yet when she considered mimicking the original Navasi's tattoos, she was shocked to learn that they were symbols of Weydan, the god of discovery and equality, famous for taking mortal form. Though her partner had never spoken of religion, Navasi took it as a sign, and even holds out some hope that perhaps her companion might have been more than she seemed...
From the deity's description:
>The deity called Weydan regularly breaks off shards of his divine self and crafts them into avatars—mortal versions of himself in every gender, shape, and species—that can walk unseen among the countless cultures of the Material Plane, free from the responsibilities of godhood and able to experience those aspects of existence denied to omniscient deities. In this way he also teaches the fundamental equality of all creatures—even gods—and encourages his congregation to treat all people well, for even the most grotesque sinner or alien monstrosity might be a secret messiah.

Alright, this was a nice little experiment, but a game that doesn't even exist yet (and if it existed still wouldn't have enough content to fill a general thread) shouldn't be clogging up the boards. Let's just fold back in with the other thread once this one dies, mkay?

>>53945867
Only with a bunch of excuses and rationalizations.

>>53947190
I like this place more than /pgg/ tbqh fampai.
Less shitposting and it's pretty comfy.

>>53946035
No, because if the art is anything to go by, all we're getting are multiracial bisexual sues with waaaaacky hair colors. And black people. Of course.

>>53947212
You and I both know that'll last until the game comes out. And besides, right now the thread is just a guessing game. There's nothing to talk about.

>>53947212
/pgg/ is fine, it's just the turbo autists on both sides screeching at one another that's annoying.

>>53946670
>Really funny when you consider how privileged her background is!
Just like most SJW:s.

>>53947264
>>53947261
I mean, I originally supported /pgg/. A separate /sfg/, however, turned out to be a smashing success as all the shitposting stayed in /pfg/, making it a containment thread as it should be. This thread convinced me that a split is good.

>>53947193
Which is more than any of you can manage for your own point.

>>53947074
>She even explicitly dates the avatar of Weydan

Except no she doesn't, because you left out the very next part of the sentence.

>though she recognizes that such thoughts are probably just a manifestation of her grief.

It's not explicit at all, and in fact it's deliberately left up in the air.

>>53946884

>literally dated a God

'Totes not a Mary Sue u guise!'

>>53947212
I was thinking the same thing. /pgg/ is full of cancer. This whole thread has only had one autist sperging out defending his waifu. This has been a more pleasant experience than any day I spent in /pgg/pfg/.

>>53947288
You know the shitposters are going to leak over here once the game is released. Better to keep it confined within one containment board to keep the mods happy.

>>53947301
Subtext is completely lost on autists. Since you're autistic, you'll just have to trust us, we're not autistic.

>>53947284
I don't think it should be a surprise to anyone that the most violent SJWs are privileged whites and privileged black women who bought whole hog into the subculture.

>>53947382
You have that precisely backwards.

>>53947361

The mods can fuck off with there seven flavors of Warhammer generals. Different game, different thread. There is not a goddamn thing you can do about it.

>>53947361
Maybe. Until then, I hope /sfg/ continues. This was comfy. If you don't want /sfg/, just stay out of it. It's that simple.

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>>53942979
>>53942991
I think I'm going to make or fluff a cyberdog then.
Somewhat related quest, is Cyborg Human a race in Starfinder?

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>>53947074

>You will never date a cute demigoddess (male)

>>53947401
Only an autist would think that autists don't have problems with subtext and reading between the lines, even when it's overt. It's pretty much at the core of the condition.

>>53947416
>Somewhat related quest, is Cyborg Human a race in Starfinder?
Anyone can get cyborg augmentations. It's not a race, just a thing you can get.

>>53947412
But it's not that simple because some of the autists use /sfg/'s very existance to peddle their /pfg/ agenda.

>>53947416

No. There are supposed to be augmentations you can buy though.

>>53947416
For a second, I thought you meant a cyberdog as a player character. Then I realized that you meant as a pet. Now I wish it was a player race.

I want a Cyber-Bloodrager Cyborg Dog.

>>53947512

Is it powered by Courage?

>>53947416
>is Cyborg Human a race in Starfinder?

Cybernetic Enhancements are something anyone can get, however I do believe you could reasonably refluff the Android race as a sufficiently altered human.

>>53947466
>talks about "/pfg/ agenda"
>calls others autistic
But anon, you are the autist. Also, as long as there's a /sfg/, there is no need or reason to not have a /pfg/. You're arguing over a literal non-issue. When /sfg/ can't support itself, you can start pushing the idea of a unified /sfg/pfg/ thread again, but until then, kindly kill yourself.

>>53947528
Yes. It's got three levels in the Courage Bloodline. Or something. I mean, obviously.

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>>53947533
>refluff the Android race as a sufficiently altered human
I think that might be the way to go for what I'm thinking to match the mechanic's robot companion just being re-fluffed into a cyberdog.

>>53947533
How close are the Starfinder race conventions to the Pathfinder conventions? Classes and such are obviously not fully compatible, but could Races be?

>>53947451
Except that, again, it is deliberately left up in the air. Maybe she dated Weydan. Maybe she didn't. It can't be proven either way and can be fleshed out in whichever direction proves to be better for her character.

If the best thing you can put forth towards her being a Mary Sue was "Navasi, a character in a space fantasy game where the gods explicitly are real, might have once dated an avatar, or she might not have", then you don't have much ground to stand on.

Just admit that you said Navasi was a Mary Sue as a kneejerk reaction without actually thinking things through.

I thought the whole purpose of iconics was that they were marry sues?

>>53947929
>but could Races be?
They're working on that, Elves and Dwarves and Orcs are confirmed, and last I heard they'll be releasing something that allows conversion of any other existing race into Starfinder.

>>53947998
Not really, there's about a dozen Iconics that have surprisingly grounded backstories or are sufficiently big enough cunts that nobody could call them Mary Sues.

>>53947998

There supposed to be a baseline introduction for beginners into how the game world feels and what it's like to play a player character class.

When you start off with 'fucked a god, is rich and spoiled, can do no wrong' then we have issues because this is the introductory material for anyone who may be new both to the game and role playing.

We don't need stupid bullshit like this encouraging newfags down a very ugly road that will have to eventually deal with later.