Warhammer 40,000 General /40kg/

Oh look it's a trashcan thread.

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Quicksilver Swiftness

>>53620485
What else would 40k general be?

so whats the word on drop pods?

Utter garbage now that jump pack deep striking and terminator armor can do it flawlessly?

Multi Melta devastator squad for an expensive cookout?

>>53620475
I don't like how they are making the Emperor seem like a total asshole even in the Dark Imperium.

He should have least had the honesty to explain to Guilliman why he thought the Primarchs were tools (which they totally are as creations) and maybe explained how he himself was also a creation too, or how his birth dad got killed by his uncle when he was some caveman kid pre-Emprahing.

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>>53620491
A cute!
CUTE!

2000 points of conscripts vs 2000 points of fenrisian wolves - who wins?

I'm thinking of building a casual SM army of salamanders, but I really like the HH power armors better. If I get a bunch of HH infantry, paint them salamanders, I'm sure I could use them in 40K, but would I be allowed to at any special event, league or GW tournament? Would they say that all my 30k men aren't allowed for use in 40k even if they're official? Would they not allow me to use a Contemptor as a regular dreadnought?

With blasts gone, is Ork shooting penalized harder than it was before?

I need to paint a bunch of dangles for my friend.

Normally i prime grey and then basecoat

are the gw or army painter sprays good for this purpose? Should I just use caliban green spray and call it a day or should I prime also?

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I made an attempt at "my dudes" Primaris chapter. Will I get made fun of or will it swoosh in games just fine? Any change you reccomend? Also what's a good way to make the bell logo for the minis?

Fluff is they use the sound of huge bells when they go to battle together with lithanies and chants for morale, and eventually id like to make a conversion and make this big golden bell surrounded by servitors. I don't think I would actually field it as anything tho.

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Xth for melee baneblade: >>53620367

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Any news on Corsairs? It looks like they won't be an independent army anymore. Fucking FW.

The sneak peak for the FW Index Xenos shows an "Asuryani" section with the Craftworlds Army List, and the Corsairs units, but no Corsairs Army List. I hope I'm missing something here and/or the Craftworlds Army List from FW can be used to make an all-Corsairs detachment. It doesn't look like it though... there's only 3 Corsairs infantry units listed and most of the rest is stuff shared with Craftworlds

FUUUUUUUUUUUUU

>local store is doing 15 off 75
>play tyranids

Do I get a second SC!, 2 boxes of warriors, or a Trygon and a box of gribblies?

>>53620514

Could be he does have subtlety left and is goading Guilliman to go find his lost brothers for help rather than relying on papa.

Could also be that Horus was actually put onto the Astronomicon in the Emperor's place, and the Emperor has been dead for quite some time already.

>>53620537
I dig it. As for painting the bell emblem, you might be able to find transfer sheets for it. If not it's not too hard to freehand.

>>53620537

Bell from Skaven might be a nice base, although you'd need to do some serious conversion work.

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I think a lot of AdMech players would agree that in 7th, these guys weren't really worth using. I think they got a buff in 8th- +1 shot, and S5. All of that with a points reduction.

For the faction, I'm not super happy about losing so many unique faction rules and gaining an incredibly weak version of canticles to make up for it, but it seems AdMech are on a similar power level to other factions, so I'm overall happy.

What do other AdMech/Skitarii players think about Electro Priests? How about the faction in general?

>>53620537

...I must admit, "Bells of Terra" is actually a cool title. Bravo, anon.

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Reposting for critique

>>53620478

thanks, I saw that but didn't see orks in tehre

>>53620639
Then they haven't been implemented for 8th edition, yet

Warhammer 40k General Discord channel invite: https://discord.gg/mjZcYAN

Everyone's welcome to join. You don't have to, no one's making you. The link is here whenever you want it.

Any suggestions on where to order 40k in the US that gives a discount and hopefully isn't too far from the midwest?

Went to preorder my 8e stuff and discovered that my local store has suddenly decided to stop giving any kind of preorder/special order discount on GW products, starting now. Fuckin' cunts, and of course it's the only store within several hours that carries 40k.

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>Sorcerer 173pts
Staff, combi-melta

>5 C. Terminators 256
4 combi-bolters, 1 reaper cannon
2 fists, chainfist, power claws, power maul

>10 chaos marines 158
melta, plasma pistol, power sword
>rhino 81
Combi-flamer
>10 chaos marines 153
plasma gun, heavy bolter

>Keeper of Secrets 223
>herald of Slaanesh 66

>10 Daemonettes 125
Icon, Instrument
>10 Daemonettes 125
Icon, Instrument
>3 Fiends of Slaanesh 138

I'm going to try this list for my first game of 8th, I'm allowed to put all this in a battalion together, from what I understand, because they have the same faction.

>>53620586
I'll try freehand, I was afraid of fucking it up because it will be my first attempt at it. Thanks
>>53620602
That is an awesome base indeed. I didn't knew about it, thanks a lot for sharing.
>>53620613
Thanks, I feel better about the general idea now. I was afraid it sounded too stupid. I love the Bell of Lost Souls lore and used it as inspiration.

>>53620537
Not a fan of the name or the insignia personally, but that's a really good color scheme

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>>53620475
How are Dark Angels this edition? They were great in 7th, been nerfed now?

>>53620537
Primaris are made from Heresy era men, Bjorn is no longer oldest space marine.

i wish they'd stop calling them Primaris marines there still space marines just with a updated gene seed

>people saying and losing there shit that a techpreist outdid the emperors own work

he took what was already there and modified it bullshit like the custodes and primarchs are still unknowable to all but big E

>>53620521
Halp

>>53620702
No one knows, the edition is wildly different and no one has been doing the kinds of testing where we even understand what the meta will look like, let alone how individual units or armies will perform in that meta.

>>53620671
Miniature Market is one of the biggest retailers and is located in STL.

>>53620521
Nobody would bat an eye, esspecially if it's the plastic HH stuff and esspecialy for a first founding chapter.

>>53620739
If it's GW plastic it's allowed in 99% of cases.

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What do you think of this guy now that hes not free bullshit?

>>53620766

The best Marine model, since beakie.

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>Havent bought new models in years
>Need some more sisters with heavy bolters
>Impossible to buy

Any 8th ed fluff photos?

I've been thinking about picking up some WH40K stuff when the new edition comes out, figuring it's as good a time as any to jump in. I've never played any other edition, but I have experience with other miniatures games. I'm having a tough time deciding what faction to pick up, though I was thinking of splitting the upcoming two player box with a friend. He wants the Death Guard, so that would leave with me with the Primaris Ultramarines.

If, down the road, I were to get another Space Marine faction, could I field it with the Primaris Ultramarines, or can you only field one chapter at a time?

>>53620534
Always prime first, chaos black is good for DAngles

>>53620521

Forge World is just as legal as GW. You can use them as counts-as in any 40k official event just fine, as armor marks for basic Space Marines are just styles and don't really confer any mechanical bonus or penalty.

As for the Contemptor, it has Forge World rules for 40k, but I'm not sure if it has GW 40k rules. Still, it shouldn't be a problem since, even though its silhouette is a changed factor, it can only really work against you since its much taller than a regular Dread.

So what is the meta looking like now
Apparently Eldar actually got bumped down a fair bit, orks are looking good actually and no longer need to meme about being bad anymore

>>53620523
yes

>>53620780
You can paint the Primaris however you want to, dude.

>>53620773
I agree, it just felt like a shame leaving him in the army box all the time last edition.

>>53620612
They remind me of the final boss in Bioshock.

>>53620690
I understand, I went with an "easy" scheme that will collide nicely, or so I think, with blue and gold. Thanks for the imput, I feel content and will finally do this color scheme when I get the DC box.

>>53620784
The Contemptor does have 40k rules, ever since they ported Calth into 40k.

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I've managed to collect a rather large Talons of the Emperor army for 30k and 40k (Using 30k rules, but now that 30k is staying in 7E, I feel kind of... Out of options? Feeling the lack of tools? I dunno how to express it. But do you guys think they might give the Talons some 30k gear with the upcoming Imperial Armour releases, or should I just pack them away on my shelf?

>>53620784

>>53620521
The contemptor is IN the 8th space marine army book. So are those 30k terminators and seemingly most guns that were in 30k.

A lot of stuff will be missing but they said that forge world is full legal and books for the entirety of forge worlds history are coming out for regular 40k by the end of the month. They'll probably be identical to the rest of the books we already have except for forge world.

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>>53620687
i like it, but the lack of noise marines makes me sad :(

>>53620790
It's much more even now across factions. Proper tier lists won't be out for a while though as it's all speculation currently.

>>53620612
Unless you count tyranids, whom I played against with admech today. Lost top of 2 due to so many early game charges. Broken as shit.

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Can a unit move after disembarking from a moving valkyrie?

>>53620846
Don't see why not.

>>53620612

Well I always thought they were absolute shit that I would never buy or use, but after seeing the new rules I'm actually considering picking up some of the pure melee variant. I ffeel like they've gotten a lot better, and I'm going to need something to protect my other boys from the turn one assualt madness with and they just might fit the bill.

>>53620846
It doesn't say they can't so they probably can.

>>53620825
I dont own any yet.

>>53620687
That's all Slaanesh faction alright but not a battalion your short 2 HQ's. Battalion requires 3 HQ's minimum.

>>53620846
Yep. Unlike not!Deep Strike, it doesn't say it happens at the end of the movement phase. It's exactly like getting out of a Chimera or Taurox, they can still move.

>>53620612
They remain to be hideous looking models, but their ability to hand out mortal wounds like candy makes them an extremely dangerous snowball unit that is effective against pretty much everything once they get their first kill.

You can definitely build a list around getting these guys into combat

>>53620846
Disembarking counts as their movement
Read the rules

>>53620846
Its a disembark not a 'deep strike' so yes they act normally after disembarking.

>>53620509
It's tough to justify their cost, but keep in mind that you can put 2 5-man units in it
double devastators seems like enough of an investment to justify the pod

>>53620485
>t. assmad infinity/warmahordes fag who realized 8th edition is going to kill all the alternative wargames now that GW stopped fucking around and released a genuinely good ruleset for once

>>53620827

I remember not even a week ago orks crying and GKs rejoicing over the leaks
fun to see things pan out

>>53620569
What do you have already?

>>53620523
ork blast weapons are overall worse
however, everything that was previously twin-linked now chucks out double shots instead, which is better
so, little column A, little column B

So why are grey knights still shit, because of lesser smite or low model count from terminator spam?

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>>53620875

I actually like the models, so the appearance is definitely not a drawback. It's kind of frustrating how fragile these fuckers are in a faction with no transports.

>>53620861

I think delivery is the hardest thing about these guys, and likely will continue to be. Now that they aren't as expensive, they might have a reason to exist.

>>53620837
Tyranids went from being a gimicky army that had to spam 1 unit to being OP in a single edition change. Man how writing can change an army

>>53620895
>Read the rules

You act normally after disembarking from transports.

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>>53620895

>>53620485
Go play your dying wargame instead of shitting up a better ones general

>>53620790
Orks needed a buff, not go top tier with the new objectives rules. Ridiculous.

>>53620922
>ork blast weapons are overall worse

All blast weapons in the game are worse in the same way, which is good for orks. Most of their vehicles are way tougher and are good in mellee. Most of their randumb garbage is just flat out better in every way now.

Orks are almost entirely column A, its just a question of how much.

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>>53620895
Im talking about 8th btw
sorry for not clarifying

>>53620523
Being able to run screeching like a retard and fire a million shots is slightly better. Pistols in combat is better for other people than us but its not that bad

Our Bikes and Fliers shooting is way better than it used to be

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Casual list I'm thinking of, mainly because I like tanks and armour, for those who can't read my terrible hand writing

Hq
Pask, battle cannon, heavy bolter

Heavy support
6 leman russes, battle cannon, heavy bolter
3 Basilisks, earth shaker, heavy bolter

Fast attack
3 banewolf, chem cannon, heavy flamer
3 armoured sentinel, plasma cannon, saw

That's using the spear head formation, I know it's not massively optimised, but any thoughts?

>>53620869
Sorcerer, KoS and Herald.

I'm allowed to run them in one detachment now, right?

>>53620927
They're not shit, some GKfags are overreacting based on theorycraft without playing the damn game first.

That lesser smite NEEDS to be what it is, or they would be OP.

>>53620790
FLG playtesters seem to think that most armies are pretty damned good these days. The only major armies they seemed down on were Craftworld Eldar and Daemons. Eldar can be run as Ynnari to make them a lot better though. Orks, Nids, and Dark Eldar are probably the most improves armies relative to 7th, and may be on top. Marines of all flavors are good and play pretty differently. Harlequins are apparently insane ninja clowns of doom now. Despite their small size they consider them one of the top armies easily. Still, this is only a few guys, so don't take it as gospel.

livestream this is from:
twitch DOT tv/videos/149230276

>>53620895
>Read the Rules
>Didn't read the rules

No Shiggy Diggy.

>>53620618
Anyone familiar with nids?

>>53620976
Basis are good now. Battle Cannons suck, though.

>>53620509
>Played the shit out of combi-plasma wolf guards in drop-pod from 5th to 7th
>8th edition happens
>I can do the exact same thing for the exact some point cost by giving jump packs to the wolf guards

I'm going to pointlessly throw away the lives of my wolf guards and there's nothing you can do about it.

>>53620999
No one knows, duder. Game isn't even out yet. We can look at the rules and points and kinda maybe sketch out how things could maybe work kinda. You're not going to get useful advice without being a lot more specific in what you're asking.

>>53620992
>The only major armies they seemed down on were Craftworld Eldar and Daemons.
Wow, the skill-less fags who played the two most OP races suddenly can't win when everyone is at the same level. Would you look at that.

How big are bloodbowl miniatures compared to 40k? I have been thinking of using bloodbowl orcs as Stormboyz, adding a rocket pack to each one.

I've always played a heavy mek ork list. I'm liking that I can actually take all the kans and dreds I own now

>>53620475
New player getting into 40k for the first time since all my gaming buds are excited to play again with 8th edition.
I'm a poorfag and don't have shit loads of free cash laying around to build an army, so are any of the armies less expensive to buy into?

>>53620537
I like the name, idea and emblem but the color scheme could use some work IMO, it's pretty boring.
Since they're associated with bells and Terra, maybe try a flashy and ornate look with burnished gold, copper or silver?

>>53620550
Help, I want a Baneblade variant even more now. I used to hate super heavies and I still kind of do, but now I want one.

Not sure what one I should get. Probably Stormlord since I like Bullgryn and assault units.

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Emperor's Children Warband, 1782/2000, Battalion Detachment

HQ - 249

Chaos Lord on Steed of Slaanesh, Power Sword, Plasma Pistol - 109

Sorceror on Steed of Slaanesh, Force Stave, Plasma Pistol - 140

Troops - 982

2x 10 Noise Marines, 7 w/ Sonic Blasters, 2 w/ Blastmasters, Noise Champion with Doom Siren, Power Sword and Plasma Pistol, Icon of Excess, Chaos Rhino and Combi-Bolter. - 682

2x30 Cultists, Autopistols and Brutal Assault Weapons, Cultist Champion, Autopistol and Brutal Assault Weapon - 300

Fast Attack - 386

1x 10 Raptors, 2 Plasma Pistols and Chainswords, Icon of Excess, 2 Plasma Guns, Raptor Champion, Plasma Pistol, Power Sword - 221

1x5 Chaos Spawn - 165

Elite - 165

Helbrute, Twin Lascannon, Power Scourge - 165

What to add to this to make up the points, lads?

>>53620992
Also to add with regard to the other faction who are burning their models. They though Tau were pretty good. "The Greater Good" is very powerful in practice. The one thing they did say is the Riptide is pretty much dead, you want one at most, and eary charges are a thing. So you can't just expect to shoot your opponent off the table before they reach you. Tau players need to adapt, use screening units (Kroot!) etc. They seemed pretty high on a Crisis heavy "Ninja Tau" style army but felt infantry based lists could work too. Sniper Drones are apparently the best snipers around aside from the Vindicaire.

>>53620972

But it just about made the Blitz-Bomma and the Waz-Bomma worse didn't it?


>>53621034

Yeah.

Too bad the larger Ork walkers have even less use now than they did before.

>>53620938

Delivery would be an issue if I expected to try and get them to my opponent. I reckon I'll make a good amount and then keep them around for when I play my buddies who play nids, orks, and SW, so that I can use them as meat shields for my gunline, cause it feels like i'm going to need a way to keep them from getting into melee with my guys. But that's just me, and i'm really not that good at 40k so I may just be trippin balls.

A Valkyrie filled with 2 units of special weapon squads armed with either meltaguns or flamers Is a amazing combo.
Fly the valk in and disembark the 2 squads 9" away from a enemy, then move 6" to get into flamer and melta range.

>>53621003
I still just love the look of a battle cannon leman russ, it looks to good not to take them in my eyes

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>Ultramarines

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Mind the sorry excuse for formatting, there's literally no reason not to bring rending claws if you're planning to take down heavy armour
The most playtested edition ever

>>53621088
>>53621003
Battle Cannons are good. Best long range gun on the Russ.

>>53621003
I wouldn't say they suck. They are very okay like most Russ variants. I'm torn. Should I even bother bringing Russes? Manticores and Basilisks seem better for the cost. Or should I bother bringing transports? I feel like infantry and deep striking is more efficient.

>>53621078
>But it just about made the Blitz-Bomma and the Waz-Bomma worse
The bombs they got are retardedly strong.

>>53621040
Really there is no army thats cheap to get into new, but you could check ebay for people selling their already built armies for pretty cheap.

>>53621108
TPrimes are the new meta. Lotsa dakka and can move Scions around.

>>53621104

Tau alliance here we come. As if I didn't need a reason to hate them anymore, now they're borderline species traitors.

Girlyman has already consorted with Eldar, can we fucking excommunicate this cunt yet?

>>53621081
>Not doing this with 6 demo charges

Casual.

>>53620478
There are more than one you stupid faggot.

>>53621110

But are they even going to hit most of the time?

Unless bombing runs are different now, I don't think Ork ballistic skill alone is going to make those worth while.

Especially in the case of the Wazbomma and I think in the case of any Bomma given most of those were using blasts before.

Alright, So i was kicking around a scions list, about 1000 points, and I want to hear what you all think. I know I suck, and this is probably terrible, so if you see a problem with it then please let me know. I'm open to advice, just don't rag on me for choosing to play scions please, I like what I like and it ain't gonna change.

First up is a vangaurd detachment with one Prime and three command squads, two command squads with four plasma guns and one command squad with four meltas. The prime would have a plasma pistol.

Next is a Battalion detachment with two primes and three units of scions. Each unit of scions would have two grenade launchers, and each unit is in a Taurox Prime with missile launchers. The two primes would have command rods.

It comes out to a little under 1000 after everything is said and done. I figure with the missile launchers the Taurox can do decent against vehicles and infantry and place the squads where I need them to go. They have the grenade launchers because they are pretty cheap, and I feel like they are versatile.

The command squads are there to be inserted a little over nine inches from critical targets that I need taken care of.

What do you all think?

So, how useful is the Tervigon after its price hike and that you have to pay to spawn a squad of termagants?

I really like the new Trygon, Carnifexes and Exocrine. Not sure about the Tervigon though.

>>53621139
>nless bombing runs are different now, I don't think Ork ballistic skill alone is going to make those worth while.

Literally EVERYTHING in the game is different. Bombing runs are MUCH different now.

>>53621139
How about you read the rules before commenting on them?

>>53621139
You fly over a unit and roll up to 10 d6 and on a 4+ you do a mortal wound to the unit.

>>53621078
I own 18 kans and 5-6 dreds. Are the meka dred and mega dred not good?

>>53620976
You're low on anti-horde firepower. Consider swapping a few of those LRBTs out for Punishers with triple heavy flamers.

>>53621069
Adding a chaos predator with lascannons and a combi bolter leaves you 2 points short

Could save 30 points on that with heavy bolters for various other upgrades like havoc launchers

>>53621139
You kidding?
Flying over a unit gives you 10D6 that mortal wound on a 4+.
All of Ork fliers are crazy now

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>>53621079

I would have thought Electro Priests of all variants were too expensive to use as a chaff meatshield unit.

I would think the derpy baymax robots would be a better damage sponge.

>>53621165

Terv doesn't have to pay anything to reinforce existing squads, and now it cannot run out of larvae or roll low for spawns.

Stick one next to a blob or two of 25-30 termagants and they will never ever die until your opponent focuses down the steamy bitch.

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why you all ignoring the last faction focus?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/04/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-imperial-agents/

>>53621112
Oh shit there are loads of great deals on ebay. Looks like I can play Orks after all.
Thanks anon!

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2 Questions:

1) as far as I know, it aint out yet, so, what does /tg/ think the new mortarion´s fluff will be like? About time he got some new stuff.

2) IF every primarch got a model on 8th edition, how would their stats be like?

>>53621165
Plop a tervigon next to a squad of 30 gants, about 350 points for a squad of gaunts that will never die and around 200 free points of gants a game

>>53620995
Is this like the people who were claiming Tyranids were useless due to Rule of One despite the rule being nowhere to be found?

>>53621220
Because we already know everything thats to be known, the fluff pieces are irrelevant now.

>>53621202
>Terv doesn't have to pay anything to reinforce existing squads

Do we know that? I don't think the situation where 'replace models killed' is called out in the rules as needing to be paid for, but the language is kinda weird.

>>53620978
Ohh sorry didn't see the KoS and Herald. Your good.

>>53621220
What's the point if we already know the rules?

>>53620982
I'd agree if GK didn't peril.

>>53620900
they'll be useful for getting troops and other units onto objectives now that you can control when they arrive, even with matched play restrictions.

>>53621201

Hey don't badmouth my beep boops, I love my beep boops. Thing is I don't feel they fit the role of meatshield well, because while it is true that they are much more survivable, they don't have the same presence on the table. What I mean by that is, you have a few models right? they're pretty big, but they can't really surround your other models like a line of electro priests could.

I just ordered some Dkok Grenadiers from some chinacast ebay store. On a scale of 1 - 10, how disappointed will I be?

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>>53621230

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repostin

so if i wanted a god aligned chaos space marine army and use the elite unit (noise marines, khorne beserkers, rubric marines) as troops i would need everything as world eater/emperors children/1ksons. but if i wanted daemons of that god in the army too it will no longer be that legion but instead khorne or slaanesh or tzeentch list making the elite units of the legion still elite correct and not troops?

so a army with all khorne, khorne berserkers and bloodletters, the berserkers would still be elites for example?

>>53621245
Only applies when adding units not models.

>>53621262

Well we actually don't know yet, because forgeworld hasn't been leaked I don't think, unlike everything else, but why would you ever be disappointed? Those models are beautiful. Who cares if they aren't top dog, if you like them you like them, be proud of it fellow Krieg fag.

>>53621220
It's hilarious that they're snipping little tiny pieces of stat lines as if we can't effortlessly get all of them.

My dad works at games workshop and he says that during the Konpr campaign, Guilleman kills Fulgrim off screen for good.

Been away from the game for a few years. I got some Lychguard just before the new edition was announced since I thought I'd get into 7th. Given the new rules and such, how should I model them? Sword and shield?

Why is the vanquisher so trash

And why is the GSC version better?

>>53621283
Do you think that'll get FAQ'd?

I get that the terv has almost no combat potential and is expensive, so maybe the cost of the termy reinforcements is calculated into that, but it feels weird to just be able to pump 10 models into a unit in the new NO FREE UNITS edition.

>>53620823
>>53620784
That's awesome. I'm really pumped to make a salamander 30k army then. That's awesome and surprising they're making rules for them in 40k. Kind of changes my opinion of GW alittle bit.

>>53621292
my dad works at nintendo and he says ur gay

>>53621245
Think of it this way. Space Marine Apothecaries can easily revive a single 40+ point space marine or terminator every turn.

A Tervigon can replace 40 points worth of gaunts in an existing unit each turn.

Similar general value, and both are countered by killing the squad faster than it can be replenished, same as with Necrons

Can the Primaris into Deathwatch?

>>53620837
Really? First game against them I won with my Tau.

>>53621311
No, otherwise necron reanimation becomes pointless. The answer to it is to either kill the tervigon or wipe the termagants so it can't add to them.

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Is the D-Thirster now the worst Bloodthirster variant? Keep in mind that all 3 are 340 points.

Are the Tau gonna be a pushover now that they have been nerfed into oblivion, or do you guys think they have some ace we havent seen yet

So is a wraith unit themed list still something a douche would do, or is Iyanden open for business again?

>>53621311
See >>53621328

It's closer to reviving than summoning, which is fine.

>>53621328
Yeah, that makes sense. I guess they couldn't also have it make free 10 man units without it being inconsistent with other non free units.

>>53621346
They are solidly mid tier, like most armies.

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>>53621346
"Leave the Gue'la to me."

>>53621346
I think you'll be unpleasantly surprised when you find they're still very good

>>53621353
D-Cannons aren't D strength anymore, so you're fine

>>53621193
Thanks man, probably adding the Pred then.

>>53621365
Actually, im surprised in a good way, since all armies should be good in their own way. But I dont know what you are taling about so if you´d care to explain please...

>>53621251
Yea the fact GK Peril at all is dumb.

>>53621331
It's tye list, most likely. Nids can have a lot of different lists, but I'm guessing in tourneys we're going to see a lot of stealer rush.

>>53621378
That 2 point thing should also have included a havoc launcher, price is 214 which is pretty good IMO

Also, wich would be the best armies now, according to what we have seen? Is there one that turbo fucks everyone and everything, or they are mostly equally matched?

>>53621407
Orks.

>>53621245

If it does than Apothecaries need to spend points to revive marines. And Necrons need to save points for reanimation.

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>>53620475
CAN YOU ISSUE ORDERS OUT OF TRANSPORTS??

>>53621386
>but I'm guessing in tourneys we're going to see a lot of stealer rush.

That army would get mashed by pure ork horde. I think people are really sleeping on 300 orks at 300 points. Same with mass guard. Hell, the sword and pistol eldar can stack some pretty good buffs now and are cheaaaap.

I think people are preparing these tyranid speed rush armies because the meta hasn't come in and people are still trying to shoot them off the table with small numbers of shooty elites.

>>53621108

The Leman Russ are almost universally terrible. Their damage per point is pitiful.

>>53621192
I could, but at 203 points each I lose a whole leman russ, and would rather have the extra cannon, plus horde armys will be crushed under the tracks of Imperial heavy armour, if in doubt charge closer and hit them with your sword

>>53621338

I'm kinda regretting building mine with the super axe now that it turns out to be the only one with -degrading fucking weapon skill- but I mean, at least it has a Melta-axe.

If only it was S16 instead of S14, then it would unquestionably be worthwhile for wounding all on 2+.

>>53621431
300 orks at 2000 points*

>>53621407
Necrons with reanimation buffs stacked and hordey troops seems overwhelmingly strong at low point values where you can't actually wipe a 20 man unit in a single turn.

>>53621430
Orders are a bubble, Anon. So no.

>>53621245

Everyone that has told you they dont have to pay is wrong.

Reece confirmed in an interview today that tervigon have to pay points to bring dead terma models back to life.

>>53620559
No news as of yet, unfortunately.

>>53621338
Same number of attacks but more damage in exchange for no ranged.

But, isn't Wrath completely superior to Fury?
Extra special rule to help it kill characters, has a heavy flamer and a marginally worse whip.

>>53621470
So how do we know what has to pay and what doesn't?

How will be the Death Guard be. And to that mater, how will mort´s model be like in the game?

On heresy he could teleport 10 fucking inches, and then move and charge. How will it be now?

>>53621338
Honestly I think the Demon Prince is better. The reroll 1 bubble is pretty nice.

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Ok, here's your guide to nurgle. Make me proud.

>>53621451
It doesn't have degrading weapon skill?

>>53621470

>Necrons have to pay points to bring back dead models
>Reanimation straight up doesn't exist anymore

>>53621445
dmg per points is not the only factor.
Ability to keep up that dmg after taking hits is also a factor.
You can get more sledgehammers by mounting them on teacups, but those teacups aren't going to hold up long. That one sledgehammer on a brick wall is going to last.

Keeper of Secrets or Daemon Prince? Can't make up my mind here for my slaanesh daemons.

>>53621507

Maybe AP are exempt? How the fuck should I know.

>>53621496

Yeah it does. Insensate Rage is the one with the single massive super-axe, and it's WS drops as it takes damage.

The other two only lose BS on their nearly irrelevant lash attacks.

>>53621330
Primaris can into anything because they want you to buy a bunch of them.

>>53621431
Actually i made a nid speed rush list because i played that all throughout seventh, it's just viable now which is fucking great

>>53621163

Anybody? I know we haven't played the new edition yet so this is all just speculation, but is there no one who can maybe give me a second opinion. Please?

Are infantry squads worth it?

>>53621524
Oh right, when it takes damage.

>>53621286
I meant more with the quality of the China cast models. I'm perfectly happy using them as scions in my regular guard army. Although it might be fun to try the krieg rules when they drop.

>>53620559
Hi fellow Corsairs Player. I too am worried. I see reavers and cloud dancers which is cool. But where are my voidstorms? I was gunna make 5 of them out of Harlequins and have them use two dissonance guns for shenanigans. But to be fair, outside of Malevolents and our ranger option, our entire range was shared with craftworlds.

I'm seriously hoping we get a corsair faction, and we get stuff like using reavers and clouddancers for troops instead, with some generic units from Eldar/DE being taken with just adding on jumppacks.

>>53621470
Source?

>>53621515
Keeper.
Don't ask why.

>>53621104

xenos allies when

>>53621331
quick army summary?

So is it Eldar Crapworld edition?

>>53621470

Do you have a source? I can't find this interview.

>>53621512

I get what yourr trying to say, but that is the worst analogy i have ever heard. "Mount sledgehammers on tea cups". What?

Anyway, the problem is that Russ attacks arent even sledgehammers, theyre love taps. Having a unit that does high damage and then dies immediately is better then an expensive unit that is hard to kill but will also be ignored by good players because it doesnt do any damage.

Why are chaos spawn so good now? Is GW still trying to make up for 4e?

>>53621593
They might hit hard, but they break easily. It was clear enough for me, Anon.

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>>53621540
Sorry anon, no one knows.

>>53621554

Oh well I have no idea, but it seems a good number of people do it, so it can't be that bad. Who'd you order from and how much was it? I've wanted to make DKoK for ages, but I just can't justify the expense for the forge world models. I don't have as much disposable income as I used to when I got into the hobby and built my first army.

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How many dice is a good number of dice to have for a Marine army?

Did any of the traitor legions stuff transfer over, or are everything not thousand sons/death guard just back to being vanilla csm with a special character or two.

>>53621515
Why not both? Though Daemon Princes of all variants are crazy good now. Stat buffs, cheaper than they were in 7th, and they dont degrade as they take wounds.

>>53621612

Well thank you for the response at least. Do you think it's a reasonable strategy, or no? I know we don't really know, but a gut feeling or just your opinion would be fine. I'm just looking to get someones speculation besides my own really.

Do supercharged plasma guns kill multi wound models on 1s?

>>53620475
Anyone have a download for the new Dark Imperium book? I've been seeing screenshots from it online, so hopefully someone on here has it.

>>53621621

Nothing for now, but Traitor Legion rules are coming later.

>>53621454
At the same time, a Necron list focused on a single warrior blob and buffing it feels like it wouldn't do as well at objectives

>>53621620
Usually 2 blocks of different coloured dice can have you set for a normal sized game with most armies.

>>53621593
>Anyway, the problem is that Russ attacks arent even sledgehammers, theyre love taps. Having a unit that does high damage and then dies immediately is better then an expensive unit that is hard to kill but will also be ignored by good players because it doesnt do any damage.

Dmg per turn and dmg per game should both be metrics you consider. The russ doesn't put out a wall of bullets every turn, but it will probably put out shots for the ENTIRE game, while other options might get a few turns of full shooting then spend the rest of the game dead.

Alpha strikes are better than durability because killing an enemies guns means you're more durable by default, so testing will be required to see where the good balance is. If alpha strike was the only thing that mattered then dark eldar would have been viable at some point in an edition in the last few decades.

>>53620702
I'll let you know when my Chaos index arrives.

>>53621593
>Anyway, the problem is that Russ attacks arent even sledgehammers, theyre love taps.
they can take a lascannon in addition to their turret weapon, which is the biggest sledgehammer you can mount on your infantry squad teacup.
Basic battle cannon is D6 S8 ap-2 dmg d3. That's averaging 7 dmg at S8. That's just a bit weaker than 2 more lascannons.
Three lascannons is max your getting out of the HWT squad.

They're using just as good a sledgehammer, you just get less of them per points than using the infantry squad and HWT. In turn, they don't disappear like the infantry squads.

>>53621642
I don't even know what a Scion is. I have very limited knowledge of the meta after 6th started because that's when I quit.

>>53621523
Because it makes no sense

>Revive Space Marines with a medic, free of charge
>Revive Sisters of battle with a Doctor, free of charge
>Endlessly revive your enitre army of necrons, free of charge
>Revive 10 termaguants without any of their upgrades? That's gonna cost you!

>>53620818
They're gimped though, since last I checked, they only include the weapon options sold with the plastic kit. You need the Imperial Armour rules for stuff like Mortis load-outs.

>>53621643
Yes, the model just straight up dies. No wounds are taken.

>>53621579
10 fire warriors
5 pathfinders
5 pathfinders
1rail Broadside
Farsight
3 crisis suits
3 steathsuits
1 Ghostkeel

Vs

3 venothropes
3 warriors
Tyranids prime
30 gaunts
Trygon prime
1 Tyrannofex
3 Raveners

>>53621666
It does on the objective that gives points for just sitting on it every turn. If you spread the objectives out a lot you can game it so that he has to split up the blob, but a single warrior unit can stretch 60 inches wide so it can still be tough at like 1250. When they stand back up you just stretch them out to reestablish that line to the objective.

>>53621431
Eh. Genestealers chew up infantry pretty well now. on a charge, 15 stealers with no upgrades or buffs will kill 20 orks or Guardsmen. That neuters a mob, although a conscript blob would be okay if they had a commisar.

>>53621719
And he had 3 unit ripper swarms

>>53621727
You can't conga line res'd models like that, they have to be placed next to existing models.

>>53621620
You don't need more than 20 or so for any army.

To hell with the players that try to roll 60 dice at a time and roll them into models.

>>53621698

New stormtroopers, with the nice copy-rightable name Tempestus Scions. Basically they shoot really well, and all of them have deep strike.

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>>53621470
Source: your ass

>>53621616
http://m.ebay.com/itm/192206884711?_mwBanner=1

From here. 30 bucks so if they really suck it's not that bad. That store seems to sell almost every krieg unit.

>>53621702
Tervigon says the dead models are REPLACED. Apothecary says the dead models are RETURNED. Reanimation also says RETURNED.

I think that may be the big difference. There seems to be a pretty clear decision to use different language. Replaced is the same language you use in list building to do upgrades.

But that parts weird because when you replace an ork with a nob there is nothing in the points telling you how much to pay for it.

This editions cracks are showing.

>>53621719

Hm... Who was putting in serious work for your side?

>>53621727
okay, engage them at one end with an assualt, Only a tiny portion of it can assault back. So that unit basically does nothing but try to score points.
Then you take care of other things, and switch to wiping it out after you're done. The harder you make that unit to wipe out, the more points you can tie up with a tiny assault.

>>53620520
Wolves

>>53621003
>battle cannons suck meme

This needs to die.

>>53621067
Doesn't matter, they're all one kit. Magnetize, my man!

>>53621507
>>53621702
I can already image how much butthurt there will be if they turn around and say you need to pay for reanimation and medics.

>>53621752
>7e
>30 hormas
>3 attacks because charging
>roll all 90 of my attacks in a tray we made because we're decent human beings
I don't see the problem

>>53621737

Sure, but there are 280 other orks. You'll probably alpha strike two 30 man units screening the horde then get tabled on the counter charge.

Stealers put out good damage but aren't resilient and they die damn fast for how much they cost. A 30 man ork squad has 120 attacks.

>>53621673
>2 blocks
How many dice is that?
>different colors
Is there a reason for that? Like how many different colors? Just assorted colors for identification purposes?

I was looking at just getting a few of those green dice with copper numbers I posted a pic of.

>>53621780
I think the difference is that the Tervigon, fluffwise, is making new termagants, while the others are bringing something back to life.

Functionally though? They're identical, and it would be stupid to say that one costs points while the other doesn't

>>53621789
My Crisis suits and Farsight were MVP. The Firewarriors may have well not been there. Broadside was kind of Meh.

probably been asked before but here goes anyway.

GW had teased that you were going to have to purchase summoned daemons from your points total. I have not seen that anywhere in the book. Under Daemonic Ritual it just says you have to sacrifice your movement in order to attempt the ritual. roll 3 dice and your total is the power point cost of the unit that can be summoned (if you dont roll anything sufficient then it fails. {if Nurgle is your god, Nurglings cost 3 so you literally cannot fail}) you take a mortal wound if you roll a double, or d3 mortal wounds if you roll a triple.

Did I miss something about having to pay for the summoned daemons? Or is the cost the sacrifice of movement and the risk of mortal wounds? (in a Chaos army a Sorcerer can always cast warptime on the unit that didnt get to move so that they still end up moving)

>>53621746
Yeah but don't you roll for reanimation one model at a time?

>>53621824
They have to be in coherency with models that weren't res'd that turn.

>>53621816
I think the difference is that all the units bringing things back from the dead for free use RETURN and the tervigon uses REPLACE.

Like, the rulebook doesn't explain the differences in terminology, but there is a pretty distinct difference there.

>>53621821
So, 'FSE' is still rocking? Good to know

>>53621823
it's under match point rules in main rulebook. Not the chaos book

>>53621821

neat, what guns on the crisis
farsight is pretty beastly in melee apparently

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What the fuck is up with Reece's voice? Why does it sound like his balls are held together with a rubber band?
I'm trying to listen to them speak about 8th, but this fucking lung cancer patient is making it so difficult to listen.

>>53621780
Do you pay the points for a nob squad nob?

>>53621696
>Basic battle cannon is D6 S8 ap-2 dmg d3. That's averaging 7 dmg at S8.
Average of D6 shots is 3.5
Average hits with 3.5 shots at BS 4+ is 1.75
At that point, assuming you 100% always wound and the enemy always fails their saves, you're still only averaging 3.5 damage.

What the fuck are you talking about?

>>53621858
2 with 2 plasma and shield gen
1 with 2 Flamers and shield gen.
With 2 shield drones. Those Saviour protocols saved my ass.

>>53620509
Flamer Pods (read: my favorite strategy with blood angels) are dead. Dreadnought pods no longer exist. Pods cost a fuck ton now.

All of these mean pods are far less spammable, and usually are a suboptimal transport option.

However, with meltas, and especially with plasma and multi-meltas, pods have a strong niche.

>>53621702

How do you know the first 3 are free of charge? That's an assumption we've been making just like with tervigon replacing dead models for free.

>>53621547
The better question is "Are vehicles really worth it when you could use those points to bring more infantry?"

>>53621862
Nobody fucking knows

>>53621854
stealth suits had a beacon and I dropped in the suits

>>53621851
I'd agree with this.

Replaced and returned are fucionally synonyms in rule terms and are only there to reflect lore.

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>>53621186

Well the Mega and Meka lack rules for now, but they'll probably be good when they're updated.

Not sure of Look Out Sir is still a thing, but since the Meka Dread would have wounds now, it could take advantage of that (though to be fair, sniper is all but useless against it anyway so).

>>53621862
I DONT KNOW

They say that you can CHOOSE to replace a boy with a nob but it doesn't list points. It lists points when I replace a slugga with a Rockit Launcha, though. It uses replace usually to indicate that you have to pay for something, but not always.

This shit needed better proof readers.

>>53621851
There is no difference, or at least shouldn't be. Crunchwise, a Tervigon having to pay points to bring back gants to an existing squad makes that ability equally as completely utterly worthless as Reanimation Protocols would be if that too had to pay points.

>>53621622
Sweet. DESU I was just going to use the current shitty GW KoS for either, and eventually snag the FW

>>53621854

>FSE is still rocking

I really hope marker drones are still as viable as pathfinders, I really don't want to switch over and break theme.

>>53621239
You have to pay for the termagants you spawn so it's basically a transport.

A relatively fragile transport considering all the lascannon and missile spam that will happen that kills all the Gants when it dies.

Nids still suck.

>>53620618

I honestly don't understand how you expect to fit 30 termagants within the restrictions of the Trygon tunnel. You have to place them within 3" of the Trygon (wholly, which I have been taking to mean covering their entire base), while also avoiding being within 9" of enemy models. You are going to lose at least 10 models due to not having room to place them, so just don't take those if you're going to bring them through the tunnel. Personally I'm reserving my tunnels for more elite troops that can still accomplish something with 8-10 models or less, as that's what I realistically expect to be able to consistently place regardless of where I choose to have a Trygon pop up.

>>53621862
No. Squad sergeants are free unless they have a points cost listed in the back of the index. For example, Boss Nobs, Exarchs and Neurothropes are free upgrades, Aspiring Sorcerers for TS on the other hand are not free.

>>53621055

Honestly, making the pauldron rims a dark copper would go a long way.

>>53621906
>Replaced and returned are fucionally synonyms in rule terms and are only there to reflect lore.

Replaced and returned are not synonyms. They mean completely different things.

So, despite having been on 4chan for many years and being one of this board's nextdoor neighbors for sometime, I never really explored the universe of Warhammer until a friend I met through 4chan and one of it's related communities bought me some novels for Christmas. I don't think this post would be tolerated on /lit/ as they have a pretty low-threshold for fantasy, sci-fi, adventure, etc. despite what others might think. Also, I'm not sure whether to post this on /toy/. Anyway, I'm not posting for the sake of lore or knowledge of the series, but I was thinking of buying a gift for my friend because 40k is...delightful. I'm just sad that I hadn't taken the time to get into it approximately 10 or so years ago when I began frequenting 4chan when was totse was dying. Ok, with that being said, where would be a good place to buy a gift for a Warhammer fan? I know of Forge World and of course Games Workshop. Is there anywhere else I can look? That's reputable or respected...I can google as well, but I would not want to drop money on something that's of inferior construction or of lesser quality or of a dubious nature. I have other questions but they can wait. Sorry, I'm not trying to hijack or be spoonfed, but I would rather not lurk for months on end. Yes, I mean a figurine for him. He plays the tabletop games. I have yet to invest money into it, but I plan on it.

What's the point of IG veterans now?

>>53621924
Don't spam Tervigons?

>>53621881
>Dreadnought pods no longer exist

They'll be in the FW book you fucknugget.

>>53621809
I mean... okay? A 30 boy mob is 180 points, a 15 stealer brood is 150. Yeah, if I send 300 points of stealers against 1800 points of Boyz, the boyz will probably win.

>>53621937
To be jelly of Storm Troopers.

>>53621943
There's basically no reason to take them at all.

>>53621881
I noticed on the combi weapons, not only can you fire with both profiles for -1bs, they're not one use anymore.

How easily could one get a ton of combi-flamers in their face turn one?
I'm guessing that -1 BS means you can't for overwatch, how do the two rules interact?

>>53621922
with Drone Controller they fire MLs at 4+.

If you put a Cadre Fireblade in a droneport, its drones will fire at BS5+

>>53621933
GW has a few resellers that will give 10% off, but otherwise you're looking at illegal third party knockoffs. There are some pop up recasters in china that people like, but other than those you might as well just buy from Spikey Bits for its 10% off or just GW itself.

>>53621882
Because otherwise it's fiddly garbage and useless at best.

The intent behind making you pay points for summons was so that your 2000 point army wasn't actually 3000 points by the end of your first turn.

All of these things that bring back models? They're not going to expand on your existing army. They essentially just allow you to give those models in those units an extra 'save' against whatever killed them to keep them in the fight.

The fact that they use the word Return and Replace makes it more clear that this is putting something back on the table that was taken off, rather than adding to it.

At that point you might as well argue Guilliman requires you to pay for him again when you revive him.

If that's the case, nobody is going to bother using this stuff. What Necron player wants to set aside 500 extra points just for the 1 in 3 chance his models will get back up when the Nurgle player just gets a 1 in 3 chance to not have those models fall down in the first place?

>>53621882
All of those abilities become strictly worse than just taking more models in your army if they cost points. All of them. If they cost points they might as well be deleted from the rulebook, just black them out with a sharpie they are trap options that will never, ever be advantageous to you in a game.

Summoning costs points because it offers OPTIONS. You don't decide what you spend those points on until you summon, and it creates totally new units.

Reanimation, Tervigon spawning, all those things don't have options. They don't have the advantage summoning does of list tailoring during game. My tervigon can't decide to either spend points on more termagants or a unit of Zoanthropes.

>>53621963
sorry, BS2+

>>53621860
it looks like his throat has a scar on it, so somthing with that

>>53621887

In the case of Orks, I don't think I'd be all that use to taking a lot of infantry over vehicles.

>>53621960
There wasn't in any other edition either.

>>53621851

But like mechanically replacing a dead marine is the same as returning a dead marine.

If a tervigon has to pay points for gants then it is absolutely worthless.

The advantage of summoning is supposed to be that you can choose what to summon depending on what you need but all a tervigon can do is create 10 of the least valuable unit, while paying 250 points to do so.

>>53621077
>Sniper Drones are apparently the best snipers around aside from the Vindicaire

I don't understand how that makes sense.
How are they better than anything? They cant mortal wound and have the worst accuracy

>>53621880

Nice, looks like Protocols is a solid new addition for Tau

>>53621863
I wasn't including the BS in there, because that applies to the lascannons in your infantry squads too, so it has no purpose in comparing the two guns.
Wounding is worse only against T8 so heavy vehicles, and the AP is worse, but AP-2 isn't shit.

Saying that guard infantry is able to put out lots of damage, but russes can't is bullshit because there russ can have a lascannon and a gun that's only a touch worse than 2 lascannons. Your infantry options are not carrying better guns than that, they just get more per points, which they pay for by being super fragile.

>>53621956
The line of posts was indicating that it was a tyranid rush list, I was just mentioning that people maximizing turn 2 assaults are going to get mashed by hordier armies. If you're just hitting a single squad with another single squad then sure, but that's not really what the conversation was about.

>>53621932
They are functionally synonyms in rule terms.

>>53621031

Bloodbowl Orcs are noticeably larger than 40k Orks, and they also have different proportions. The 40k Orks in general have larger heads, proportionally.

I tried a headswap for one of the Black Orc Blockers with a spare Nob head, and found that the Nob head was absurdly oversized and that I was better off with a regular Boy head.

>>53621912
That FW model is one of the most annoying things to put together. It would probably be better and less expensive to just buy a DP and an old KoS model.

Or just wait for GW to update the KoS, but that probably wont be for a while.

>>53621984
Why would we laud them for not fixing problems?

>>53621976
Agreed there.

I play Orks too and my old Speed Freeks list is going to be tough to run, anything with an engine got way more expensive.

>>53621994
I thought the conversation was about a Genestealer horde up against an Ork horde.

>>53621991
Not him, but Sniper Drones have really nice range, good strength, and can easily be brought up to the best accuracy if you have a Marksman, a guy with a drone controller, and possibly markerlights.

The only real flaw they have is that they can't get past saves, so they're only really good against lighter characters rather than warlords, but I'd argue that's the case for most of the non-vindicaire snipers

>>53621970
>Because otherwise it's fiddly garbage and useless at best.

>gigantic high strength almost immortal model that gives large area of effect buffs and essentially gives termagaunts deep strike is fiddly garbage

No?

>The fact that they use the word Return and Replace makes it more clear that this is putting something back on the table that was taken off, rather than adding to it.

Return implies you already paid for it and are getting it back. Replace implies you are getting a new one. When something is returned to me I don't usually pay for it, but if I go out and replace something that tends to come with a bill.

>>53621992
He's probably just mad that Russ spam isn't super OP anymore.

>>53621937
Better than Guardsmen, but still cheaper than Scions. 6ppm vs 9ppm will go a LONG way toward netting you more dudes.

They're basically budget Scions...cheap enough to sacrifice, but a much better choice for melta/plasma than Guardsmen because of their BS bump. Standalone HWTs may be super cheap now, but veteran HWTs embedded in vet squads can benefit a lot from that BS as well, especially lascannon teams that normally have one shot syndrome.

>>53621985
250 points while also being the most resilient unit in the book and having an AOE buff to surrounding termagaunts. It also has big arms to hit things with, but they'd take a while to do much.

>>53621937
They still put out a lot of dakka. Taurox still has 4 autocannon shots. Vets can have tons of weapons. Heavy weapon, heavy flamer, 3 specials, one plasma pistol.

>>53621933
Lots of non GW stores do discounts, a place near mean does a flat 20% off on all GW products. Just check around for independent stores.

>>53622004
It isn't really one. Their gimmick requires that they are weak to focus fire, so work around preventing that.

Or would you like them to just be OP and require no skill to use?

>>53621996
You have literally no idea if that's true so stop saying it. Unless you're one of the designers of this game then you have no basis on which to claim what is or is not functionally a synonym. Especially for a game that hasn't come out yet and has no errata.

>>53620902
Are you retarded?

>>53622049
It's a complete waste of time seeing as the other MC's are just better than a 10 unit transport.

>>53622055
>Buh...Buh... SEMANTICS!

Don't be a faggety rules lawyer, unless it says something explicitly stop assuming it.

>>53622027

The summoning rules still don't mention paying for models, only units.

>>53622027
>No?

Yes. And I was referring to Apothecaries and Necrons with that too.

And having to set aside extra points on top of your already expensive MC (that isn't nearly as immortal and strong as you think) just to slowly poop out 40 points of fodder each turn isn't worthwhile. If you can bolter existing units for free? Sure, that'll help soak up some wounds while the gaunts you upgraded do the real work. If you have to pay? Just Ditch the Tervigon and buy 200+spawned gaunt points worth of gaunts.

>Return implies you already paid for it and are getting it back. Replace implies you are getting a new one.

Again, this is all fluff. There's no reason why bringing back a Space marine Centurion with the biggest guns available into a unit should be free, while putting a handful of gaunts without upgrades into a unit should cost points

>>53621673
is a block 12 or 36?

>>53622025
15 stealers isn't a horde. Are you running a horde of them or aren't you? Are you just sending one squad at me a turn..?

2000 points of orks is going to beat 2000 points of stealers because they are much more cost effect in an anti infantry mellee role and your speed advantage only matters on the first charge. After you kill that screening squad you're going to lose like six squads at once on the counter charge.

Or you could just send them in one at a time, but shootas are a free upgrade that most units will have like 10 of (so that they can overwatch then be taken off the table).

>>53622081
That's, like, just your opinion man.

>>53621857
thanks

>>53621984
Are you fucking stupid? Tervigons were OP in fifth and they were solid in 7th during the time after we got obsec summons but didn't have the asinine MC cover nerfs.

>>53622027
I have to pay a workman when I have something fixed and returned to me, it is a fact of life.

It doesn't make sense for Nids to pay to return a gaunt squad to full strength but necrons don't pay to return warriors.

>>53621966
>>53622048
Thank you for the speedy responses.

Alright, seeing as you're the only that responded, I will ask you. This fella and I have been friends for a while, and I wanted to buy him something really momentous. Would a Forge World Warlord Titan be an inappopriate gift? I don't really care about the cost, but does it have any utility as a table top piece? Within the confines of rules and gameplay, is it stupid and unwieldy? Not having the played the tabletop game, I have no idea. Also, I know he plays Imperium forces, so at least it would be appropriate in that sense. I have other questions about the build as well.

I think for me that I will take your advice and go local and independent to get started, but he's been playing for years. I want to get him something really cool.

>>53622106
Sure, but you'd have a hard time convincing me to take one other a haruspex or exocrine.

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>>53621998
We'll if GW does EC in the fall like I keep hearing, they'll probably do daemons of slaanesh right after, and coordinate it with sigmar's teased Aelves.

After that, I'll use the old KoS as a prince I guess. For the time being, me thinks I'll buy a prince and a trygon kits and make a snake body prince

>>53622094
I'm not convinced it's just fluff, but I am happy to wait for a FAQ to see. I can see both arguments. They are very consistent with using RETURN on anything that is reanimating dead units, but they use REPLACE in list building.

Both just mean "put a thing back on the table" as is, but the correct design decision if you wanted no ambiguity would have been to only use one term, not several. Especially when those words mean different things.

I'm having an extremely difficult time figuring out what scheme to give my Guard army. I don't really care for canon Cadian green, I like the blue they did with Scions as the official theme but I don't particularly want to just copy that either. Kind of considering purple, tried it out a bit and it's not bad but it's sort of a bitch to actually paint. Normally I'm really good at coming up with shit like this, but my mind is just blanking.

Suggestions? I run (or ran, thanks 8e) mostly mechanized Guard, so it needs to look good on Chimeras/Russes/etc.

>>53622055
Says the hypocritical faggot arguing semantics.
If that's your stance them why are you shitting up the thread?

>>53622027
>>53622045

Resilience isn't worth anything if you can't do anything with it, and you're better off buying another 60 Termagants with those 250 instead of getting rerolls to hit. And its not deep striking because you have to fucking walk where you're going. It would be a really slow land raider with a worse save with no guns that can only carry 10 guardsmen with bolt pistols.

>>53622113
In 5th, they died to my 16pts per model stormtroopers, but I'd say they were pretty alright.

Let's face it, If the Emperor had a Text-to-Speech device became canon, it would be better than what they have now.

Also who the fuck cares about fluff? How's the crunch and how are YOUR DUDES going to fare?

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>the new rules for SS Exarchs and Karandras that let you attack again for each hit you land

Scorpions have always been my favourite aspect, so I'm loving this ability.

>>53621909
Boyz are 6 per model and nobz are 17. How is this hard to figure out? Since you're -replacing- a boy, you subtract 6 and add 17 for the nob.

>>53622027
No you idiot, return and replace have no difference in context of the games terminology.

Look. This is very simple. There is a fool-proof way to tell if an ability should cost reinforcement points or not. Here's how it works:

If you use this ability to put units on the table, and somehow magically your opponent misses every shot and every attack all game and you never take any losses, do you end the game with more models, and therefore more points, than you started with?

If yes, then the ability costs reinforcement points. Basically they are a mechanic to make sure you aren't getting "free points" in the sense that a 2k vs 2k army could end the game with one side at MORE THAN 2k points.

If no, it doesn't cost anything. It's effectively just a different kind of save that you take after the model already died.

The reason the Tervigon causes so much confusion, is because unlike all the other abilities in the games that do these things, it has two different modes. Summoning is always type 1, Necron Reanimation is always type 2, but the Tervigon chooses whether to use type 1 or 2 each time it uses the ability. I think this is how Reece got it mixed up and confused everybody.

If you use the mode where the Tervigon spawns a NEW UNIT of termagants, it costs 40 points, because theoretically if you ended the game right there you would have 2040 points.

However, if the Tervigon replaces casualties in a unit of termagants that was already paid for, ie you had 20 terms, some of them died, you replace up to 10 of the dead ones up to a max that you started with, that doesn't cost anything, because if you ended the game right there after using it, you still wouldn't have more than the 2k points you started with. Very simple.

Now, is this ability strong? You fucking bet it is. It's basically a super-duper 1+ invulnerable save for 10 gants a turn. The counter is really simple - Shoot The Big Ones.

>>53622121
>Alright, seeing as you're the only that responded, I will ask you. This fella and I have been friends for a while, and I wanted to buy him something really momentous. Would a Forge World Warlord Titan be an inappopriate gift? I don't really care about the cost, but does it have any utility as a table top piece? Within the confines of rules and gameplay, is it stupid and unwieldy? Not having the played the tabletop game, I have no idea. Also, I know he plays Imperium forces, so at least it would be appropriate in that sense. I have other questions about the build as well.

Assuming you are not a troll, but are just a wealthy guy then the titan would probably be ok. It takes up a lot of space and is annoying to transport.

Alternatively you could get something professionally painted for them. Your local independant store isn't going to sell forge world goods like that titan, that is direct order only, though they may be able to talk to you about it.

>>53621775

The site wont let me link the video because it days its spam. Look up frontline gamings QA from yesterday, then eat shit.

>>53622139
>Says the hypocritical faggot arguing semantics.

SEMANTICS ARE LITERALLY ALL A FUCKING RULEBOOK IS

>If that's your stance them why are you shitting up the thread?

Blow me?

I need to cut 100 points somewhere but what do you guys think of this list I quickly made?

-HQ-
Catacomb Command Barge - Gauss Cannon, Warscythe - 169

-Troops-
Ghost Ark - 170
Ghost Ark - 170
Warriors x20 - 240
Warriors x20 - 240
Immortals x10 - 170

-Elites-
C'tan Shard of the Deciever - 225

-Heavy Support-
Doomsday Ark - 203
Doomsday Ark - 203
Annihilation Barge - Gauss Cannon - 153
Annihilation Barge - Gauss Cannon - 153

Mostly going up against an Ork and Tzeentch Daemon player.

>>53621927
So you think warriors would be better to tunnel?

Is everyone going to use points? I feel like power levels is probably best for casual games and just use the points for Tournaments.

>>53622171
I'm pretty serious.
Laser blasters? OR Apocalyse launchers?
Plasma annihilators? Power claws? Volcano canons?
This will be a shot in the dark. I don't know what a good balance would be.

>>53622189
Not him but,

I do believe it is actually RULES. If it cost points, they would say it costs points. I don't play filthy xenos scum and even I know this.

just see
>>53622162

>>53622142
Resilience isn't worth anything if you can't do anything with it

I'm pretty sure that in objective games resilience matter a whole lot.

>And its not deep striking because you have to fucking walk where you're going.

And because they pop out of a giant monster they dont get mowed down before that.

> It would be a really slow land raider with a worse save with no guns that can only carry 10 guardsmen with bolt pistols.

Well, no. It'd carry like 60 guardsman but it'd have to let 10 out every turn.

>>53621674

I am comparing damage over the game, as well as damage per turn. Russ are shit at both.

You can buy 6 lascannon HWS teams for the price of a single BC Russ. 6 HWS with las will do the same amount of damage in a single round of shooting as a Russ will do in 5 turns. That means that even if the HWS all die turn 2 theyll still have put out the same damage over the course of the game as a Russ that lives 6 turns.

>>53621963

Not sure if that's useful for points sink unless the drones can fire whilst embarked.

Otherwise it's 4 t4 wounds then all that spending on character and fortification is gone.

>>53622131
Replace in list building has no bearing here, because that's used when you're exchanging one gun for a different gun.

>Both just mean "put a thing back on the table" as is, but the correct design decision if you wanted no ambiguity would have been to only use one term, not several. Especially when those words mean different things.

Don't forget that Poxwalkers also effectively have something similar where they can Add models to the unit.

They use different words because they're doing slightly different things, but that doesn't make any of these different enough to mean one costs points and another doesn't.

Marines Return, because fluffwise you're bringing the guy back to his feet (even if he previously Fled due to a bad morale test) with full wargear.

Tervigons Replace, becaues fluffwise you're spawning more of them without any wargear, even if it's functionally identical to the above if the squad has no upgrades.

Poxwalkers Add, because fluffwise they're turning people they kill into zombies and can go above their max limit

They mean slightly different things, but the intent is pretty clear if you don't insist on trying to read it like a law document.

>>53622220
60 models worth of points that you could lose because the tervigon dies is an awful idea.

>>53622159
There is no entry for boss nob in the book. There are Nobz reffering to the nob squad, but that's not what the book says to use. I get that you are probably meant to assume Nob but if you're allowed to add or subtract words when finding units that's gonna get real fucked up real fast.

>>53622205

Most likely, just plan for the fact that you're playing without two of your Synapse sources for a turn. They're also flexible enough that whatever soft target you want to hit, you'll have a good tool to do it with (melee or shooting).

>>53620992
>Harlequins are apparently insane ninja clowns of doom now
Elaborate.

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>>53621927
It's actually fairly reasonable, though I prefer to have it be exactly 20 so that you can more easily move it around cover.

>>53622162
Another counter is also 'wipe out all 30 gaunts in one turn'

Or heck, even if you can only manage 20 gaunts in a turn that'll still finish them off within 2 turns

>>53621163
It's not a widely played army and no one has played the new rules yet so no one can say, I've no idea but someone else said taurox primes are now good so I'm sure it'll be fine.

>>53622131

Consider it a matter of calculating kill points or whatever. A Returned model is not killed for the purposes of fulfilling a mission objective or scoring points. A Replaced model has originally been killed for the purposes of calculating casualties, but a new model has come back to take its place. Also Returned is in factions that often have characters attached to these squads, and you're likely going to be reviving them, which may be relevant to mission objectives, whereas Gaunts aren't characters ever, nor does the ability effect anything but the gaunts.

Also consider we'd have that much more faggotry over rules if it was all one or the other. Consider reviving a Replaced Celestine and then arguing it's not the original so you use the original Celestine's revive to essentially create a second Celestine from out of thin air. Someone's going to be a faggot about that.

>>53622210
You're not supposed to count power levels, it supposed to be a system of put whatever on the table and then compare.

Matching power levels would be unbalanced as fuck.

>>53621796
This. It's only said by people that don't use I played 2 games today as IG. My russ squad BC'ed Bobby G to death in one turn.

>>53622268
Fuck that's a lot of gaunts being vomited up

>>53622162
>No you idiot, return and replace have no difference in context of the games terminology.

>No you idiot, return and replace have no difference in context of the games terminology.

Except you have literally no evidence of that because the rulebook doesn't state one way or the other. You are just pulling that out of your ass and textalling with a lot of all caps.

Like, yeah, the tervy is expensive and if it cant shit out free gaunts then its a lot worse. But hey, maybe its a bad unit from a company with a 30 year history of making bad units.

The thing is, you don't fucking know. It'll get FAQd so calm the fuck down. No one is making you play games with shittier tervs.