Warhammer 40k General /40kg/

First for reasonable Tau. I'm leery of some of the nerfs, BUT I WANT MY RAILSIDES.

Actually first for the Dark Eldar and "cultural exchange".

>>53503481
why are fishfags so butthurt

your shit was op and it has been balanced

>>53503510
I haven't seen much butthurt here. I, for one, am very pleased with the changes and look forward to playing on a leveled playing field with other factions. More fun for everyone this way.

>>53503541
apparently tau lovers on dakka dakka are sperging out hard

>>53503556
What over?

Nth for 8E is just AoS in space.

7th was a clusterfuck, but they didn't need to drop it to "babby's first wargame" level.

>>53503509
I'm pretty hype for new Tau. While they needed some of the big stuff, there are also a lot of cool changes to some of the lesser used units (tanks, ethereals, kroot) that I'm super hyped to play around with

>>53503510
They were more annoying to fight than OP. Tau have had immense trouble making an impact in competitive scenes, but all of the units that people liked using were the ones that are very good against non-competitive lists.

I welcome the changes (I think the new broadsides are going to be ridiculous to be honest) and am excited to get a game in where I can use the units I like and not get immediately labeled a power gamer.

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"Shot at me."

Those tau support things are pretty solid.
Advanced targeting on, well any battlesuit will be scary.

Stormsurge with cluster+pulse+SMS weapons and advanced targeting

daaaammmmn

add multitracker and the cluster rockets become
4D6 S5 AP -1 range 48'' reroll 1's, hit on a 3+ if stabilized

Is relic wargear for all factions gone? How about faction specific warlord traits? Sure seems like it

>>53503566
Riptide got nerfed pretty hard.

>>53503566
That they can't just put Riptides and marker drones on the table and instawin

>>53503572
Kys

How common are mortal wounds?

>>53503541
Not to mention there's hope that we won't be the automatic "fucking Waacfags REEEEE" faction, so we may actually be able to have reasonable discussion without the anti-Tau frothing at the mouth.

>>53503573
I hope the nerfs/readjustments change up the playstyle a bit. Currently I'm thinking it'll still be JSJ, but more refined. Also pretty hyped to use my Ethereals on the Fire Warriror gunline while suits become the vanguard.

>>53503556
Are we on dakkadakka?

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How do you feel about elite armies going first? Definitely going to hurt those horde armies that take an extra turn of shooting before they get to cc.

>>53503566
Tau suits have all gotten substantially tankier, but at the same time have had their price increased by 30-50%. Broadsides are now 150-250 a model but in turn have 6 wounds and toughness 6.

>>53503593
>>53503594
That's it?

I've been out of the game for years now (Start of 6th) but even I heard how stupid Riptide spam got.

That and marklight on overwatch seemed stupidly broken.

>>53503606
That doesn't seem too bad.

>>53503592
Seems like they are gone for now and will come back when the codecies are made.

>>53503601

Railguns cause them. Sunshark causes them. Seeker missiles causes them. Destroyer missiles causes them.

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>mfw I want to run Orks in 8e but can't stand boyz disgusting gorrila butts
New orks models fuckin when

>>53503601
More than we thought, since they seem to be on a lot of special attacks along with powerful weapons and psychic stuff

It says broadsides are 80 points but I take it that doesn't include the cost for weapons?

>>53503592
Oh fuck. Oh fuck! Is that what happened to the Onager Gauntlet? Fuck me right in the conversions

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>>53503510
>why are fishfags so butthurt
>implying its all fishfags
It's mostly the unfun tourneyfags (on here anyway) who think the balance should always be in their favor (read: the pricks who pulled the Riptide spam all the time).

>>53503556
>dakka dakka are sperging out hard
Best quote: "I have seen the codex leaks. Tau are dead as a viable faction."

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>>53503606
>6 wounds
>T6
>can be oneshot by a Lascannon
>Tougher

>>53503586

Also, ethereal buffs apply to suits now too,
a stationary suit near an ethereal gets to rerolls its 1s to hit

So ethereal buffing your backline, essentially giving every unit and model a free multitracker without any caveat

>>53503603
I'm personally liking the idea of an Ethereal on a hover Drone to tag along and support the battlesuits more directly

>>53503645
>Not painting Baboon asses on your Ork buttz

>>53503645
how tasteless can you be

>>53503659
Correct, you now pay the base plus any wargear they have.

>>53503601
Really common it seems but most sources won't do a lot of them.

What is the split going to be on the imperium / xenon books?

SM / Everything Else?
Elder & Tau / Everything Else?

>>53503664
>all that accumulated dust

Am I the only one in this thread who doesn't even play this game? I just like how comfortably everyone talks to each other and how quickly information is dispersed, unlike in certain other threads where people immediately do the gayest shit possible.

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>"taufags btfo lol"
>implying im not about to laugh at astartes surrounded by my shiny new thiccsides, behind a tidewall rampart
hahahaha

>>53503601
like 1/10 attacks you roll are going to be mortal wounds

>>53503637
>That doesn't seem too bad.
Easy mode is gone. They may still be pretty good, but it's no longer CLEAR that they are one of the best armies.

>>53503665
For 210 points:
Broadside w/ 2 High Yield Missile Pods, 2 SMS, and an Advanced Targeting System.

This Broadside is T6 with 6 wounds, has a 1+ save in cover and puts out 8 S7 -2 D3 damage shots and 8 S5 -1 1 damage shots a turn.

Without any drones, on average it takes Space Marine firing 9 lascannons (9 fire, 6 hit, 4 wound, 2 are saved) to kills a single one of these broadsides. Adding a single shield drone (8 points) requires another 4.5 lascannons to be fired at them.

Lascannons instant-deathed Broadsides before.

>>53503665
>can be oneshot
>instead of is oneshot
Yeah Colbert that's how it works.

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>>53503684

>>53503572
totally agreed

>>53503670
Apparently less than some orks players

>>53503667
That, too. They can actually keep up. Just imagining an Ethereal floating behind some suits shouting shit about the greater good while bullets whizz by and explosions bounce off the shield generators gives me a chub.

>>53503605
Given how much the new wounding system benefits shot number and how much more generally effective hordes are with auto fallbacks? eh, I'll let it rock

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>>53503684

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>>53503709
>all these Tau leaks
>nothing about Orks, Nids or GSC

>>53503726
Yes taufags are an abomination

>>53503709
>>53503718

Half right I guess. Thanks.

>>53503726
where are all the loyal ork players

>>53503696
Thats good.

I never really was one for power gaming (I ran A BT counts as army with max crusader squads) so the markerlight and overwatch shennaniganry combined with the big suits kinda didn't seem that right to me....As did the detatchments and free things.

Mono pose, mono list, needs a special character to even function.

Can you guess the 8th faction?

>>53503746
There are no loyal Ork players, only people who pretend they know how the game works.

>>53503605
I like it a lot. I think it's one of the best mechanics of AoS. It provides a lot of tactics with deployment and gives a pretty huge reason to not just MSU everything.

>>53503755
nigga fite me

>>53503749
Sisters.

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Tau btfo

>>53503763
That's not how you play 40K either.

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>>53503726
>tauplayers stick together
>npcs just fuck around

>>53503746
They didn't got books. Remember the rumors? The rules where written with help of the waacfag tournament players.

Guess what armies are in the tournament scene? Not orks

>>53503598
I've played AoS, 8E is basically a prettied AoS.

Then looking at unit/weapon profiles it's just more of the same shit that AoS has.

>almost no USRs
everything has it's own special-snowflake rules. Which will end up like AoS having fucking 50 different rules for what a shield does
>"power" system
Matched play points are a fucking mess to navigate, and the "power" rankings are arbitrary.
>Smaller unit sized armies go first
Fucks over anything that isn't an elite army. (see: Space Marines)

it keeps going on.

So much for "years of development"

>>53503703
>>53503704
Oh, they were T4 before, right.

Excuse me while I eat my hat.

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These leaks make me sad as a Guard player. We can already see the trend of all vehicles becoming more expensive. This is going to mean less Guard tanks on the table. And our base infantry literally can't do shit against most other armies.

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>>53503755
>>53503768
Why is there one autist in these threads always trying to start a shitstorm with Orks involved

>>53503763
Kinda proving my point, ain'tcha?

Do Drones not count for Morale in 8th ed?

Because I'm picturing a scenario where I give a riptide -1Ld and kill his drones only for him to roll a 6

>>53503760
Unless you stick half your army in reserve to get that first turn.

>>53503771
But Reecius has personally crafted the ultimate gaming system! didn't you hear 8th can do no wrong

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ORKS ARE BACK BABY

>>53503795
Drones are always separate unit. They take their own morale tests and don't affect the units they took hits for.

>>53503795
Drone Support ability. They are deployed as you normally would if you bought drones, but then they are treated as separate units. Saviour protocols let you kill a drone instead of taking a wound on X unit within 6(I think)inches.

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>>53503605
>How do you feel about elite armies going first? Definitely going to hurt those horde armies that take an extra turn of shooting before they get to cc.

Seriously? That's completely kills the idea of balance on the battlefield.

>>53503792
>Why is there one autist in these threads always trying to start a shitstorm with Orks involved
Zogged if I know, but 'e iz one annoying lil' git. Probably a snotling hiding behind a keyboard or sumfing.

>>53503814
>>53503816
Okay, that's good

Morale tests when Droids died was weird

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Would you look at the time!

Looking at the Space Marine point costs at 3500pts I can get

2 HQs
60-70 marines
3 Land Raiders
3 Drop pods
3 Dreadnoughts
3 Rhinos/Razorbacks
3 Grav Centurions

Looks ok, I think making some transports more expensive is perfectly fine and it stops the game from needing too many models as a 1500 list will be less models than before and that is always a good thing.

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>>53501978
>Am I the only one who thinks Primaris would be perfect for Mentor Legion?
No.

>>53503803
Each of those still counts as a "drop", or atleast it does in AoS. For example, rather than deploying a unit, you would "deploy my assault marines in reserves". Then you opponent would place a unit.

>>53503788
Hold fast, trooper. It'll be a cold day in hell before the Leman Russ is bad for its points, and if anything can wound anything, that makes the humble lasgun better than ever at its job.

Sure, you won't kill a Gargant with a volley of lasguns, but you'll never be wasting your shots, either.

>>53503605
>Definitely going to hurt those horde armies

it might not. Hordes doesn't always mean more units. The ork player with huge mobs might still have less total units then a Marine player with MSU's

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>>53503835
Is ot time, brother? Is it time to AMPLIFY?

>>53503749
Numarines.

>>53503749
numarines

>>53503835
this feels like it should be a .gif

>>53503605
What the fuck. So as guard, unless im playing against nids or orks I'm only get to go first 1/6 games? That's fucking gay.

>>53503775
Oh look, it's another of those uninformed shitposters.

You're fake news buddy.

>>53503605

How does this work with transports?

Do I have to deploy the transport empty, then wait a turn and deploy then the squad in it?

What about reserves? Do I not deploy them at all, or do I take a turn to "deploy" them in reserve?

>>53503875
>>53503881
Wrong
>>53503764
Almost

>>53503788
Our base infantry is fucking frightening when you have decent numbers, which you usually do. Especially with the new frfsrf.

>>53503605
It's not model count, it's unit count. A few blobs surrounding characters all starting in transports would deploy after a lot of elite armies, unless you put them into one unit.

>>53503893
Depends on units, not models. See >>53503863

>>53503893
>guardsmen
>leading the charge instead of digging in
The fuck kind of guardsman are you, leave glorious death to the SM

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>>53503890
It was. I tried to crop it on my phone.

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>>53503866
SCREAM TO BE HEARD

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>>53503866
All that and MORE

>>53503917
If it works like AoS, then yes.You take a turn to "deploy" each unit, whether that be in a transport, in reserves, or on the table.

>>53503944
I DON'T EVEN LIKE CHAOS MARINES ALL THAT MUCH, BUT I LOVE ME SOME NOISE BOIS.

THREAD OST: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsGRsDe3iRw

>>53503917
>transports
unclear

>reserves
I recall the deepstrike rules we keep seeing read something like "you may choose to deploy them in a teleportarium/hangar/ship/whatever" which at first I thought was just fluff but now I think actually means that you take your deployment turn to deploy it there.

>>5350378
Don't fret. Guard willing be great in 8th

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>>53503961
THINGS WILL GET LOUD NOW

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>>53503917
Yeah all reserves state that you "set them up" in some alternative location during deployment. Whether that's "in the skies", "under ground", "in a teleport chamber", etc. So there's no advantage for turn order to holding things in reserve or not.

>>53503924
And before anyone talks shit about wound counts, let's do some math.

>50-man fireteam
>45 lasguns, 40 with flamers for overwatchin'
>100 shots at close range, 200 with rank fire
>100 hits
>16.67 wounds vs anything
>5.56 wounds vs 3+, 2.78 vs 2+

Supplemented with traditional Guard heavy weapon density, a big ol' pile of nothing this ain't.

>>53503930
>>53503863
Well I'm going to go out on a limb and say it'll definitely fuck with nids who have a bunch of synapse creatures they need to deploy in addition to their blobs. Alternatively nidzilla just got that much better.

Since poxwalkers have replaced the old plague zombies and their new models are fucking heinous, where do I get cheap packs of Sci Fi zombies? I'm struggling a bit to find something that would fit in 40k.

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>>53503577
Okay.

>>53503910
Look at even simple stuff like how terrain is utilized.

It's a simple "Is every model in terrain?"

No difficult terrain, nothing to slow people down, no soft vs hard cover. Nothing.

So someone has a horde of 'gaunts in a building, but one model has the edge of his base out on the backside. TOUGH TITTIES, NO COVER.

>>53503991
Sorry, that's exactly what it is. Terrain often forbids you to concentrate that much firepower on a single unit all at once.

And 8th looks like it's going to allow a vast plethora of options to get into assault on turn 1 or 2 at the latest. Guardsmen are fucked and cucked this edition, pure and simple.

>>53503689
How do you feel about 170+ pts per Broadsides?

>>53503605
I'm not going to do that. We are going to roll off.

>>53503991
Especially if we can get a psyker power that lets us re roll hits. Might be unlikely looking at the powers so far though.

>>53503917
Transports are separate units, so by RAW it seems like if you deploy the transport and unit together rather than individually (like if you wanted them in different locations) it will help you go first.

Keep in mind finishing deployment first isn't pure upside. if you have more units you can hold off on deploying critical units in order to try to react to the opponent's deployment.

>>53504042
See >>53503703

>>53504039
Good thing mech armies are still a thing huh?

Also remember that getting into close combat with 50 Guardsmen is no small deal, especially if sergeants can take power weapons again.

>>53504039
Cruddace is that you?

when do primaris marines get the rest of their toys? theyre going to be their own army and will be getting the heavy support, flyers, elites and the rest eventually.

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Here's a compilation of all of the leaks that have come from some italian dude over on DakkaDakka.

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>>53504007
Mantic plague zombies.

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>>53504039
I'm still smilin' if my heavy weapon squads are left untouched.

And I'm grinnin' like a fool if my pal the Vendetta gets the buff I think it does.

>6 lascannons for less than 200 points

>new edition won't kill WAACfaggotry

>>53503991
It's 95 shots at close range, 185 with FRFSRF, when using full lasguns. Sargeants use laspistols, which do fuck all. Now, a blob of conscripts...
Really hope we are still allowed to give sergeants bolters. Even though with the changes to the game, it might actually be preferable to give them lasguns to benefit from that sweet FRFSRF.

>>53503769
>he thinks Tau aren't an NPC faction

>>53504095
Mate those look fucking perfect, thanks!

>>53504091
>Astra militarism
>Regiment keywords

HNNNNNNNG I feel some Chinaman vostroyans coming my way soon.

>>53504078
>>53504078
Nah, just a disgruntled Guard player who bought into the whole "Wall of Light" theory, painted 100 guardsmen, went to a local tournament, and lost EVERY SINGLE GAME (six of them) that day.

I promised myself if I ever started playing again (which I might be for 8th ed), then I'd be doing mechanized with as few troops as possible.

>>53504074
>Also remember that getting into close combat with 50 Guardsmen is no small deal

Yes but if one squad of bad guys manages to get to your lines, you can bet three or four are soon to follow in the coming turns. Plus your dudes can no longer fire once they're all locked into an assault, make it easier for the enemy to join in the gangbang.

>>53504018
Terrain is getting its own datasheets, which we haven't seen yet, with all the rules of what it does on it.

Outside of that, there are more things that make 8th different from AoS than similiar, or used to be a thing in 2nd edition.

But don't let an informed opinion get in the way of your shitposting.

So is the reason that games take 90 minutes now that everything costs 50% more?

Land raiders cost 350 points, predator annihilators over 200, rhinos like 80, what is this shit.

>>53504016
>tfw when your an Ork player and you Looted a Basilisk one purpose: FUCKING WITH TAU
>seeing IG use it for the exact same purpose
Feels good anon.

>>53504091
>Ork Battlewagon M12" W16 T7 Save 4+, can get T8 but loses Open-topped. Deff Rolla hits on a 2+, 6
attacks S8 Ap -2
Welp, I know what my next purchase is going to be after the rulebook!

>No leaks regarding SoB
Not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing...

>>53504091
>Scatter lasers are 36" Heavy 4 Ap0

>>53504190
Troops cost the same.

>>53504190
Careful anon, be sure to breath through your nose lest you choke to death on those cocks.

Damn near everything got a price drop except vehicles

>>53504190
Most infantry seems to have become cheaper though.

But mostly it's that the rules are way more streamlined and clear to understand. There are also a whole lot less exceptions to rules already in the core rules themselves. All units treat heavy weapons the same for example. Exceptions are mostly listed in the unit profile, and at most there are barely a handfull of them.

>>53504123
I wish we could take sergeants with lasguns, but I doubt we will be able to. So I hope they can take power fists or sword. Backed up by a priest and commissar with a power weapon, that would be one scary ass unit to assault.

>>53504055
T5 with BS4+ but yeah, seems like an ok unit.

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>>53504137
>mechanized with as few troops as poss
im hoping an army of pic related will be viable supported with some chad marines and maybe some of those new dreadnoughts

>>53504082
Probably in the next SM codex. They probably need it too, right now they're a confused hybrid of Aspect Warrior-tier overspecialization with SM costs and even smaller unit sizes. And since their characters are the only melee-specialized units they have available they're boned if they get caught in melee.

>>53504226
The base loadout got cheaper. Wargear got more expensive.

Missile launcher devastator squad in 7th? 130. In 8th? 165.

Terminators in 7th? 35 points each. In 8th? Over 50 for a storm bolter and power fist.

The only thing that costs about the same is troops without wargear. Once you start giving them melee weapons and shit they generally cost more.

>>53503605
Wha-wha-whaaaaat!? you mean armies with more bodies will take longer to marshal! and coordinate!? OUTRAGEOUS! except for nids where it actually is unfluffy

>>53504091
>Eldar Distortion weapons are just Str 10 AP -4 now

And nerds around the world breathed a sigh of relief.

>>53504127
As far as has been shown, those keywords will likely do nothing and only serve to restrict you further. In the Tau leaks, the <Sept> keyword is just something you pick for your army that doesn't actually do anything.

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Does this sum up every interaction between Nurgle and Slaanesh?

>>53504196
>>53504196
>tfw you've always hated Trukks and own 3 Battlewagons already

>>53503829
>Entire army is inside transports or huge biker mobs
>Only have 6-8 units to deploy

Not really a huge deal.

>>53504262
Don't get the impression that I don't like it, I do. I just want to know what y'all had to say about it.

>>53504137
Gotta do hybrid Guard. Mech blows and infantry blows. But together they win games.

Like. 7th edition: Tactical squad with a missile launcher, plasmagun, combi-plasma, and a rhino: 215 points

8th edition: Tactical squad with missile launcher, plasmagun, combi-plasma, rhino: 255 points.

It's not just heavy support and elites that cost more.

>>53504314
That's the rhino that makes most of that difference though.

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>>53504137
you were 150 guardsmen short of a tournament winning list son

>>53504299
That's exactly the Army I ran back then.

VS assaulty armies, they were in my lines on turn 2 or 3 at the latest, and once that happened I lost the game because there's nothing I could do for my guys tied up in an assault, and my Leman Russ tanks pie plates worked to my disadvantage since scatters took out my own guys as well as the bad guys.

VS shooty armies, I simply could not out-shoot them if they dedicated themselves to such. They killed more of my shit than I did theirs.

Guardsmen are very squishy and pathetic creatures who DO NOT get much more powerful in great numbers.

>>53504287
I preferred deploy first, go first. This seems really annoying if you only have 1-2 more units then an opponent.

>>53504314
But for those 40 points the Combi-plasma can be fired every single turn, the missile launcher actually can do some damage even against monsters, the plasmagun no longer gets hot by default, and the Rhino can't be oneshot or glanced to death that easy anymore.
And the unit can fire all its weapons and still charge, and move and fire with the missile launcher without being reduced to 6+ to hit.

>>53504314
Might just be a boost to SM costs. What's your source for the points costs anyways?
If we're being honest here I'm just assuming GW is being retarded and putting no thought into pts costs because they want to shill their retarded unbound mode.

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Am I the only one wondering what's the deal with Admech?

They're getting no attention, few leaks, reveals, etc.- I wonder what GW's planning

>>53504345
It was only 1500 points. Unless I skimped on infantry squad heavy weapons, there's no way I was going to swamp that board with that many Guardsmen. Plus, I had just about had enough of painting and just wanted to play.

>>53504345
Or conversely 100 too many and not enough tanks.

>>53504314
Sounds to me like they want transports to be a decision and not an auto-include, which is fine by me.

>>53504109
Of course not, min-maxing has always been and always will be present in games like this. The power gap between a casual, fluffy army and a min-maxed WAACfag army is much smaller now. What was once a complete massacre is now an actual game of 40k, and a better player with a mediocre list will win more often than a mediocre player with a fotm netlist.

>>53504268
For most armies all it does right now is explicitly divide up sub-faction special characters.

>>53504374
This is the way I'll be going if I decide to jump into 8th.

I would like better chances of hurting shit instead of having to chuck literal bucketloads of dice just to take out 2 or 3 marines. Fuck that noise.

>>53504367
You brought too many infantry squads and not enough conscipts son. Wall of Guardsmen doesn't work unless you literally max your points on Guardsmen. After all, where is that tank going surrounded by 50 conscripts?

>>53504108
lascannons are 25 points each in marine lists. your laughing if you think they will be cheap enough to make vendettas under 200 points in the guard list.

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>>53503605
Question:
Do units deployed in transports get deployed all at once? Or is it "I deploy Battlewagon. Your turn. Now I put Boyz in the Wagon"
That former makes fitting your entire army in 5 or 6 transports tacticool.

>>53504126
We all know NPC factions lose, and when Tau come up against Marines, Marines lose, so...

>>53504270
Slaaneshi here, don't see the Nurgle bit?

>>53504190
most to all infantry have been substantially cheaper so far.

>>53503605
Less units go first, not less models. An army of dreadnaughts might go after boyz in decked out transports with a few aoe buffing characters tagging along. Could also keep an ungodly herd of stormboyz in reserves.

>>53504384
It's all vehicles.

A stock predator went from 90 points to 151 points.

A stock land raider went from 250 to 356.

Vehicles are more durable in some ways sure but lascannons will still chew the fuck through their wounds doing d6 damage each.

>>53504257

Viable I wouldn't worry about, auto win is more of a problem although they don't seem too crazy so far. We'll have to see their special rules

>>53504281
deploying in a transport counts as deploying.

>>53504314
Basically the Rhino costs double. Not the dudes.

>>53504419
Define substantially.

Tactical marines are 1 point less but much of their wargear is more expensive now.

>>53504399
It looks like leman Russ exterminators are going to be the new business. I just painted up two autocannon turrets I had from sprues.

An army of leman russes is going to be stupid hard to kill this edition, especially with techpriests.

>>53504447
Tau infantry all lost 3-5 points
sisters went down 2-4 points
nids went down, altho I don't recall how much.

>>53504404
As if standard BS 3 guardsmen weren't already pathetic enough at hurting anything.

Now I need to flood the board with an assload of troops with worst killing stats than grots?

Yeah I get that there needs to be sacrificial lambs in any good strategy. I'm just outright allergic to bringing any unit to the board that literally can't hurt the army at all - and only serves as some kind of meat shield. Fat waste of points, especially if the enemy figures out a way to tie up your conscripts and relegates them to doing jack-all for the entire game. Not a hard thing to do from what I've heard.

>>53504366
They just haven't gotten to them yet. Nothing nefarious.

>>53504438
>>53504413
I'm assuming if you have a battlewagon with 1-2 squads inside it, deploying the BW deploys the units inside as well. I can't see you having to state that you're now deploying the occupants separately.

>>53504366
Crossing my fingers here Anon, just got into the game after a decade away cause of 8th and a friend pointing out how rad Skittles looked. Got most of my first SC box painted and ready to go, gonna grab another when I see what the rules are.

Vanguard are so good but Rangers have such style...

>>53504351
I'm dumb, please explain to me how deploy-first go first is different from "finished setting up models first go first," cause it sounds the same.

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Can we have some Chaos leaks for once? I'm tired of hearing about NPC factions and their irrelevant units.

>>53504491
Chaos already got a lot of leaks

>>53504481
IIRC the transport section in the BRB uses wording that means you DO deploy in the transport separately

>>53504484
If you have an near equal amount of units, it benefits one player much more than the other as going first is a huge advantage.

>>53504491
There have been heaps of chaos leaks m8. Abaddon/havocs/land raider/obliterators etc etc

>>53504413
At once. Transports rules say you announce what models are inside when you deploy the vehicle.

>>53504491
We just did. Check the catalog.

>>53504472
>Not enjoying having more models than they have bullets

>>53504461
Termagaunt is less points than a meltabomb

Genestealers will be 12 points per model

No idea how much points eithr is right now.

>>53504491
Seriously what's it take to get some fucking info on a soul grinder

Probably almost 200+ points now though

>All these leaks...
PDFs when?

>>53504484
The new way is alternating deployments, each player takes turns deploying a single unit at a time. The player that finishes first, goes first.

>>53504504
Total unit count is known before deployment, so the player knowing that they are going second still has the advantage in terms of deployment knowledge. They can place their moss valuable units last, after they know where their enemy's deadliest units are deployed.

Some Chaos Daemon info would be lovely.

I've been tempted to make a Slaanesh cult army themed around a parade. Like. Bond Villain tier I guess? Parade float disguised tanks. Marching bands that are actually cultists. Dancers that are daemonettes. Etc.

Yes no?

This is the song in my head for it right now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5M3R2WvFQk

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>>53504502
No. You have they option of deploying them embarked at the same time or not embarked and individually.

>>53504508
Ammunition isn't a thing at the tabletop.

Yeah I know you were trying to be "fluffy" but I don't get any special kick out of plunking over individual figs down on the tabletop (in fact, it's a pain in the ass to do so, then pack back up when the game is over). Especially if I'm likely to lose with those 200+ troops. I'd like to win the OCCASIONAL game, you know.

>>53504523
It's an advantage but not nearly as much as knowing your entire opponents deployment and less again than getting first turn in an edition where deep strike is completely risk free.

>>53504538
*Over 200+ individual figs

So psychic focus is rule of one for matched play. Guess I'm not making that Thousand Sons army for 8th.

I dont understand unless characters are getting their own psychic powers here otherwise whats the point of someone like Magnus? Ahriman will probably get around I though with his black staff.

>>53504556
Deep strike isn't risk free, they're likely to not get the charge off and be in prime position to get shot off the board. Also all deep strike lists can't exist anymore.

>>53503605
>>53503917
>>53504413
>>53504534
Well there you go, transports with multiple units will take one deployment turn to set up. So orks stuffed into a battlewagon are good to go.

>>53504586
Smite can be cast multiple times and there are likely multiple tables that psykers can pick powers from.

>>53504534
Jokes on you, If I know I have more units than you even if I do deploy in transports I'll just drop everything individually to maximize the amount of my army deployed after yours.

Hell if i spam deepstrikers I'll just deploy all my deep strikers first, in deep strike.

>>53504587
Being able to deploy as you like isn't a risk. Not every deep strike is for the purposes of first turn assaults.

i still haven't seen any reason to take anything other than 1 wound models and just go full horde. the amount of weapons doing 2+ or d3 wounds is just ridiculous.

>>53503605
>goy why aren't you buying space marines?
>even the rules are written to benefit space marines!
>don't forget your primaris marines too!
Oi vey.

>>53504640
There should be more weapons that do extra hits vs large model count units, but so far there's basically nothing. Like 2 or 3 weapons spoiled so far out of all of the leaks.

>>53503775
Kys

>>53504640
Consider the amount of weapons that allow multiple attacks every time they shoot. Consider that twin-linking isn't a reroll to misses, but double the amount of attacks. Consider that weapons that use to use templates now are simply multiple attack weapons.

Your horde army idea isn't a guaranteed win.

-t. Guard player

>>53504640
...Congrats anon you've found the crux of the issue

Lots of 1 wound models to avoid the expensive multi wound weapons. No one brings these weapons and suddenly multi wound models have value because they just giggle at small arms. People start bringing multi wound weapons and multi wound models start to disappear.

The pendulum goes back and forth until a meta is established

>>53503781
Hit that shit with a Battlecannon then.
Heavy D6, S8 AP-2 Damage D3 will ruin it

>>53504427
>inb4 the stock Russ is still 150

>>53504603
>Smite can be cast multiple times
d3(Or 1 for an aspiring sorc) untargetable wounds with a perils result likely to do more damage to you then you do with it all game. Yay.

Seriously I dont understand why 40k needed this rule. The new psychic tables look weaker anyway.

>>53503594
Have we seen the actual numbers on Riptides?

>>53504682
Hitting it with a battle cannon is easier said than done

Most battle cannons are BS3. You get 3.5 shots on average, which is 1.75 hits. Good luck. If you're lucky you might do 4 wounds.

>>53504717

Yes.

>>53504534
shows how much I remember.

If a model comes with a weapon does it still need to pay for it?

>>53504669
D3 wounds is significantly less than what a pop plate could remove.

>>53504720
If tank vets are a thing then they will be way better, but I don't think there will be.

>>53504735
A lot of leaks reveal that former blast templated weapons are actually d6 attacks now.

>>53504705
I'm hesitant because we don't know casting values

If they're 7+ or higher then the risk reward is tremendously underwhelming
+1 S to the unit on an 8+ and perils 1/18 times means I'm just blowing my brains out for trivial benefits

>>53504733

Yes

>>53504735
The argument is that it can POTENTIALLY deal 18 wounds. But in reality a lucky roll might net you 4-6.

>>53504705
A 1 in 12 chance is smaller than the chance smite will deal damage. And the reason the rule exists is to prevent players from always picking the best power. If you could cast the same power multiple times, there would be no reason to not pick the best power and spam it. This rule forces you to use a variety of powers.

>>53504720
Oh, and when I mean "if you're lucky" that also means that they failed their 4+ armor saves.

On average, a battle cannon fired at a broadside will cause 1.45 wounds if it's not in cover.

>>53504751
Tank vets at BS4 take it from 1.45 to a whopping 1.93 wounds per battle cannon.

>>53504770

But D3 can still only kill 3 models.

Riptides are still Monsters.

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>>53504717

>>53504769
that seems pretty retarded. it just makes list building take more time for no reason

>>53504786
God that's fucking gay. Oh well another variant will always take its place.

>>53504701
It should be with how garbage the Battlecannon is. I'd rather stick to the Executioner for the "blast" Leman variants.

I kind of want to do scythes of the emperor as an all primaris army. Would that be a bad thing?

>>53504786
Oh shit, I'm wrong!

I was calculating these for T4, not T6. At T6 a battle cannon wounds on a 3+.

So, battle cannon at BS3 is 1.16 wounds, at BS4 is 1.55 wounds.

I hope the 200+ points you paid for that leman russ was worth it.

>>53504815
source or collection?

When is advanced targeting a bad idea, it seems sick

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>>53504717

Here's points cost.

>>53504809

Just hella expensive monsters.

>>53504816

It is so they can adjust points down the road if they need to. It does take some extra time but I'm sure it'll become wrote just like most other things.

>>53504759
That's still less.
Is there any reason why I shouldn't put my dudes on a tray for faster movement now?

>>53504815
Damn, it's as inaccurate as a fucking Ork.

>>53504705
And there was totally a leak last week or so by someone playing 8th (using Tyranids, iirc), mentioning that the Rule of One was not in 8th. Goddamnit GW, what niche will GK and 1KSons have?

>>53504827
Yes, primaris marines are most likely going to be a low tier army.

>>53504832

Just the stuff I saved from the previous 40kg thread. He was posting it from a closed facebook group IIRC.

>>53504816
>Codex entries are two pages each
>Picture and fluff on one side of the spread
>Stats, options and points on the other

WHY IS THIS SO HARD GEEDUBS. ITS BASIC BITCH DESIGN SHIT.

>>53504809
Over priced and with useless additions to make them seem worth it.
You now lack the fire power to stay off a charge, and anything in melee is essentially dead.
I mean you can pull them back out if they live but they won't and you know it.

>>53504534

So firepoints are out?

>>53504856
So you buy two books instead of flipping back and forth.

>>53504837
I think it is rather convenient that all point costs are on the same pages, rather than having to flip back and forth between the unit entry and the wargear lists.

>>53504108
wont all flyers get a nerf because skyfire has been removed?

>>53504870
t. Games Workshop

>>53504778
Or, ya'know, GW could've actually succeeded with balancing the game, and had a score of reasonable psychic powers for armies to use; kind of like how it worked in 7th for the non-deathstar armies. This just seems incredibly unnecessary.

for 8th im putting together a rogue-trader themed force of imperial guard, and while im waiting for full rules drop to pick and model my units, what do you think would be a good colour scheme for a combined arms ig rogue trader force? something nice but not too garish.

>>53504853
Wait until oldmarines without primaris tech get turned into spawn en masse in a few years because they weren't chaos resistant enough.

>>53504815
>4+
>5+
>marker lights are useless so you can't even land a damn hit anymore
But hey, it's fair now right?
Right? You savages.

>>53504882
Psychic in 7th was a totally unbalanced clusterfuck and don't deny it.

>>53504856

They don't appear to be 2 pages. They're 1 page and then a universal upgrades page - seems pretty efficient to me.

>>53504877
hard to hit for fliers is -1

>>53504864
riptides look bad now, what are they good for now

Looking at the crisis suit photo it seems like they need to be taken in squads of 3 at a minimum. Is that right? No one else has mentioned this and that seems like a huge nerf for the suicide suits

Serious lore question. Do space marines lift or does their geneseed make them swole by default?

>>53504902

I know you're memeing but I can't get enough of this.

>>53504921

>Is that right?

Yes.

>>53504912
>what are they good for
Absoluuutly
Nuthin
Say it again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQHUAJTZqF0

>>53504933
Both. They lift and geneseed gives phat gains.

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>>53504902

Here's the marker light rules.

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>>53504882
>GW could've actually succeeded with balancing the game

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>>53504895
Man I love how primaris marine cocksuckers already have to use vague arguments like "B-b-but GW will make old marines shit in the future ! Jus you wait"

Surely GW is going to support a barely selling army in favor of one that single handedly kept their company afloat.

>>53504483
I'm hyped af for rangers in 8th. 30" S4 AP-1 will actually be threatening, and combining that with whatever faction-wide buffs Skitarii get, I'm imagining they'll be quite a force to reckon with.

>>53504933
pretty sure geneseed just supercharges all their muscles. an auto-response to the conditions required. kind of like when they go to desert worlds they all become super-tan almost instantly to better absorb radiation.

>>53504941
You're overreacting. They still make a nice centerpiece for your T'au army. Excellent for narrative play when you need that extra "oomph"

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is it me or is the new Perils of the Warp pretty harsh??

>>53504912
Humor me for a moment. I don't play Tau. How is this a downgrade? It looks pretty shooty and survivable to me.

>>53504258
But seriously though, the NuMarines so far are a bad joke. They have the GKs' issue of expensive models, crippling overspecialization, and no dedicated melee units at all. Aren't they supposed to be the "super Marines"?

>>53504933
I don't think I've read anywhere about them lifting weights but they do train for about 10 hours a day.

>>53504820
Keeping the Leman Russ at around 150 points would be the only redeeming value it could possible have left. Plus it would be very fluffy for the guard to be able to have about two tanks on the table for every one any other army brings.

>>53504972
It's pretty tough but its firepower is anemic for its point cost.

>>53504882
It is impossible to make different powers equal in all circumstances in all armies without assigning some cost to them. Rather than make the player pay to take powers they instead went this route to prevent players from spamming the power that was most useful for their army. Would you prefer we rolled on a table to get random powers?

>>53504973
When the inceptors multipose kit gets released, I bet there will be options for melee weapons.

>>53504903
Not universally -- there were a lot of blessings that led to degenerate shit (and summoning), but I don't think the system was inherently broken. And even if it was, shouldn't overhauling the warp charge system have fixed the problem? By getting rid of warp charges and implementing the rule of one, they've gutted the phase. Seriously, what is the point of spamming psychic specialists now? I don't want that to be an OP tactic, it's just fun and fluffy to have a bunch of Zoanthropes, for example.

>>53504992
Inceptors look like trash, though.

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>>53504839
>Is there any reason why I shouldn't put my dudes on a tray for faster movement now?

No. In fact, that's exactly what I was going to do, too. Packed in nice and tight no less.

>>53504867
Not sure if we've seen a datasheet for a vehicle with firepoints yet. Just tau stuff and Chaos Land Raider. GW has said Passengers can fire freely from open topped vehicles though. My guess is fire points are now a special rule on each individual vehicle.

Are you allowed to have different weapons within a single unit in 8th? Can I have say, 3 immortals with gauss blasters and 2 with Tesla carbines and it still count as one unit?

>>53504997
Too late, we EasyHammer now.
>>53504998
I think they are pretty cool. Nothing like hydraulic super mario shoes to help you get that extra jumping boost.

>>53504952
Nice, I can earn my coinflip on a unit that should be more accurate than an or

>>53504839
>That's still less.

No, 4 models or so is typically what a battle cannon would hit before when you consider squads are usually spread out and getting it to hit exactly where you wanted it to go is a difficult roll to make.

>>53504990
Yeah, I would; if random powers means that I can cast shit more than once a turn (and not waste points in an army with psychic shenanigans), sure.

>>53504971
>1 wounds psykers insta-die to perils now
What did GW mean by this?

>>53504877
If anything it's easier to kill them because generalist weapons will work just fine. You don't need dedicated anti-air firepower.

>>53505004
Packed in tight now that blasts aren't a thing. Movement trays seem like a viable, just beware of exploding vehicles.

>>53504997

Eldar/Marine player detected.

>>53504972

The firepower for its cost is terrible, bearing in mind its BS too.
Tide+ion is like over 300 pts for 3 shots S7 Ap-3 D1
Stormsurge on the otherhand seems to now blow it out of the water

>>53505027
2 wound héros have 3 or 4 wounds now and cant be targeted unless they're closest

>>53505034
I thought the explosions we've seen said "units within x"

>>53504682
No it wont.
Heavy d6 is ass. 1.75 hits on average. So many points of failure of it doing shit all.

>>53504992
A fat lot of good that'll do on a 3-man squad that doesn't even come with a sarge. So far the only decent Primaris unit we've seen so far is the Hellblasters, and even then they're not much good against large blobs or anything which can outrange them.

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>>53504967
>narrative play
So you agree they are all better off dead and buried.

>>53505017
Yep; rather than armies like GK and 1Ksons having distinct identities, they're now just boring Marines+.

>>53505047
Ok...

>>53505048
They might be, I haven't looked too much.

>>53505025
If you don't like it house rule it or don't play matched play. The vast majority of players thought random powers was horrible.

>>53505027

Psychic powers are dangerous.

>>53505004
>Tfw making movement trays for nearly 100 Guardsmen

Fuck it I'll just glue magents to the bases and spray some flat sheet metal black.

>>53505047
and have nothing to tank wounds for them when targeted by snipers.

>>53505049
is there any reason to use a battle cannon now?
should we all just use exterminators?

>>53505042
You got me. Ever since they stuck Zoanthropes in the Eldar codex, I've been cheesing out with them nonstop. Seriously, faggot; I said deathstars and summoning shenanigans are OP. But what the hell is wrong with fucking warp blast?

>>53505074
They need to reprint their wotr bases.

>>53505043
Not surprising. First they lured in the faggots with Riptide Wing and a single Stormsurge. Now with 8e the lure is to buy another Stormsurge or two while their Riptides rot in the cabinet.

>>53504990
They don't have to be equal in all circumstances, just have enough of a niche.

>>53505079
>snipers now finally have a use
or
>what are command squads

Reminder that Nids need to get the Necron treatment.

>>53505087
we've had the tyrannic psychic powers leaked, warp blast is not on the list.
Guarantee it'll be a zoanthrope specific shooting attack.

>>53504997
The warp charge system itself sucked because it lead to degenerate armies that you buy piles of cheap "battery" psykers just to power some assfucker like Magnus up to ungodly levels. Yes you're unlikely to simply win the game is the psychic phase only now but psykers are still potentially very powerful. Something like Warp Time is going to be a welcome addition to any army that can take it.

>>53505085
If Exterminators are Heavy 8, and the chaos version is, then yes, fuck battle cannons, aquire autocannons/heavy bolters.

>>53504867
They probably have that on the data cards for the transport

Am I the only one didn't like the assault changes? The idea that an Ork boy gets to swing before a Champlain just because he charged seems so silly to me.

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>>53505074
That's legit.

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>>53505110

>>53505110
Are you suggesting we give them personalities akin to saturday morning cartoon villains?

>>53505110
What? Crushed by the ultramarines in a paragraph?

>>53505087

Crazy, you've seen the Zoanthrope rules? You know they won't have warpblast as a shooting power instead? Or that them casting Smite isn't also a good choice?

Pics please!

>>53505135
Is this some kind of a joke because the nids literally got crushed by guilliman in a paragraph in the new fluff

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>>53504972
Taufags are upset that it's not broken OP shit, but actually balanced and fitting of the fluff which describes it as "powerful, but rare, unstable and extremely hard to produce"
Now they'll actually have to play fluffy armies and make tactical and strategic choices and cost benefit analysises rather than just "spam these models, shoot, move out of LoS and win"

Now, there are tau players who are happy about this, and to you taubros, I salute you few who actually want to play fluffy fun armies and welcome these changes, and I look forward to crushing fluffy lists in fun games under the powered armored heel of my blood ravens or 1k sons. But we all now that many many faggots are upset about this change, so don't start shit saying "not all tau players" and acting like your army isn't hugely popular with WAACfags

>>53505122
You apparently have never felt the pain of having half a squad wiped before they get to swing even though you outmanuevered your opponent just because of 1 number on a profile

>>53505114
link?

>>53505122
Warhammer Fantasy operated like that for many, many years. It works fine.

>>53505149
Well, Guilliman fights them off, and a daemon kills the entire tendril.

>>53505119
Especially since autocannons are 2 damage.

Even if you unload battle cannons on a bigmarine or terminator squad there's always the 1 in 3 chance of your d3 damage coming up short on them

>>53505152

it wasnt balanced before I know, but now it is just plain bad
just look at the stats, seriously

>>53505152
Eh, the riptide is 7e gorkanaught tier.

>>53505165
from an earlier thread.

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WHERE MY CHAOS BROS AT????

>>53504971
no, because you will always only be rolling 2d6

>>53505122
>The idea that an Ork boy gets to swing before a Champlain just because he charged seems so silly to me.

Makes sense to me. Maybe the champion got blind-sided.

>>53505149
Oh my bad, I thought the order was reversed. Necrons getting the Nid treatment and all that.

>>53505093
The problem is that the players that care about matched play aren't going to take that niche power, or if they do, they'll look for ways to take advantage of it. Otherwise, why take the power that may not even be helpful, when I can take the ability that is generally pretty good always and just spam it? And if I do build a list that takes advantage of that power, chances are it's gonna be on all of my psykers and I'm going to try and cast it 5 times a turn and not care about any other power.

>>53505183
Playing Dawn of War 3

so do I have actual reason to use seeker missiles now? I like the updated models of them that broadsides have.

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>>53505183
Hey there. Which god are you?

>>53505191
The other result is that you don't bother taking more psykers than needed to cast that one power.

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Can anybody else that has had time with the leaks tell me if this is right or even good? I didn't list anything that didn't cost points.

Blood Angels Vanguard 2,000

HQ (2)
Chaplain with Jump Pack 90, Inferno Pistol 20 110
Librarian with Jump Pack 116, Combi Plasma 15, Force Sword 14 145

Elites (6)
Death Company (x10) 170, Power Axe 5, Power Sword (x2) 8 183
Death Company Dreadnought 128, Blood Talons 65, Heavy Flamer 17, Magna-grapple 5, Meltagun 17 232
Death Company with Jump Packs (x10) 200, Hand Flamer (x2), 16 Power Sword 4 220
Death Company with Jump Packs (x5) 100, Hand Flamer (x4) 32, Power Sword 4 136
Dreadnought 70, Twin Autocannon (x2) 66 136
Furioso Dreadnought 122, Frag Cannon 19, Furioso Fist 40, Magna-grapple 5, Meltagun 17 203

Heavy Support (2)
Vindicator 160
Vindicator 160

Dedicated Transports (3)
Drop Pod 103, Storm Bolter 2 105 (DC)
Drop Pod 103, Storm Bolter 2 105 (DCD)
Drop Pod 103, Storm Bolter 2 105 (FD)

>>53505176
The Ion accelerator might be bad, but the Heavy Burst Cannon with Advanced Targeting System is pretty damn solid, especially considering, it has another 2 shooting weapons that it can fire at different targets.

>>53505215

That's fine - there is literally nothing wrong with that. You take the amount of a thing you need to accomplish something.

>>53505205

doesnt seem like it
hit target with 2 markerlights in order to raise hit chance from 1-6 to 1-2 all in order to inflict 1 mortal wound with that single use thing

>>53504846
Orks hit on 5+

>>53505176
I have, and it's fine. It's 200 to 300 points depending on how you equip it.
That puts it in the same price range as a landraider, with about the same resilience and better damage output.

It's far far from useless, it's just not broken like it was. You're paying 209 points for a T:7 W:14 Sv:2+ model. The land raider is 239 points, and it's T:8, W:16 Sv:2+. The riptide is exactly where is should be in terms of cost

>>53505119
>heavy 8, 2 damage
>plus 3 bolters each for a further 9 1 damage shots
>max out heavy support
>24 shots at 2 damage
dakka dakka dakka

>>53505183
Waiting for alpha legion shit

>>53505257
Land raider is 350 points. I wish it was 200 to 300.

>>53505232

Yeah, nova burst cannon + advanced targeting plus multitracker or ethereal buff and it isn't terrible.
12 shots ap -3 D2 reroll 1's
Cost of 1 wound that can be FNPed

So maybe it isn't just all around terrible, just that HBC >> IA

>>53505247
Exactly, which is the one casting per turn is fine, it limits potential abuse and promotes variety in your list, whether it be in the form of multiple powers or simply not spamming psykers.

>>53505152
You know, I'm more excited that I'll be able to discuss Tau in general with an extremely low chance of being called a WAACfag more than anything. My main gripe is that I'll have to learn a new playstyle and I'm already GARBAGE at tactics in general. Silver lining is that at least I can say I'm a half decent painter so my I can at least look cool while getting my dick kicked in.

>>53505298
If anything, it'll be interesting to see a Riptide without an Ion Accelerator for once.

File: Into_3a6015_6260649.jpg (52KB, 639x612px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 639x612px

>>53505186
>trukk driving straight at him from the other side of the table
>massive horde of 30 boyz comes blistering out and run at him while screaming at the top of their lungs
>m-maybe the the chaplain got blindsided!
Kill yourself.

>>53505170
>>53505163
Yeah but it doesn't make any realistic sense. A charges B, who just lets him swing and hit him. When he's done, B attacks back, and A takes the hits like a retard just the same. B then starts running away, while A stands there like an idiot letting B escape.

A then attempts to charge again, but changes it's mind along the way and goes back on it's steps back to where he started.

Random charge ranges were already retarded, now we also have to deal with fixed weapon skill values and no initiative which is even more unrealistic and stupid.