Pathfinder General /pfg/

>>52814686
Why would a character that doesn't fit get into a campaign

>>52814686
We were on page 6.

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>>52814686
Pfft

>>52814686
P A G E 6
A G E 6 P
G E 6 P A
E 6 P A G
6 P A G E

Anyone have stats on the Four Horsemen out of Bestiary 6? I might need them for next session on tuesday.

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Reposting
Males [12]
$ Romulus Nohrm (27 years): 6' 6", 210 lbs || 198 cm, 95.3 kg
$ Allanz Gremund (18 years): 5' 11", 152 lbs || 180 cm, 68.9 kg
$ Sinh (???): ???
$ † Lucius Nacht (18 years): 6' 3", 200 lbs || 190.5 cm, 90.7 kg
$ Dr. Linus Lux (???): ???
$ ‡ Fahd Lutfi (26 years): 4' 7", 97 lbs || 139.7 cm. 44 kg
$ ※ Raine: ...
$ "King" Angelo Sette (???): ???
$ Alkurith Rekanthor (38 years): 4' 8", 54 lbs || 144.2 cm, 24.5 kg
$ Serax (24 years): 6' 2", 168 lbs || 188 cm, 76.2 kg
$ Stefon Vargrave (23 years): 5' 11", 145 lbs || 180 cm, 65.8 kg
$ Edward Loum (29 years): 6' 1", 156 lbs || 185.4 cm, 70.8 kg

† Six foot three as a freshman and weighing in at a /fit/ 200 pounds? Is this Chad Thundercock's bigger cousin?
‡ The shortest girl is half a foot taller than him, and the shortest girl with an actual body is almost a full foot taller.
※ I dunno if you realized mate but your character sheet is an F-list...

Females [18]
$ Emilia Ivanov (20 years): 5' 6", 135 lbs || 167.6 cm, 61 kg
$ Yamelia (???): ???
$ Salacia Mithlaeth (RIP): 5' 8", 160 lbs || 172.3 cm, 72.6 kg
$ Chiundra (315 years): 5' 6", 145 lbs || 167.6 cm, 65.8 kg
$ † Ecaterina (29 days): 7' 3" / 5' 4", 0 lbs || 221.0 cm / 162.6 cm, 0 kg
$ Cijiska (22 years): 6' 8", 212 lbs || 203.2cm, 96.2 kg
$ Umbranae (???): 7' 6", 386 lbs || 229 cm, 175 kg
$ Ingrid Proteah (31 years): 5'9", 144 lbs || 175.3 cm, 65.3 kg
$ Kanna (∞): ???
$ ‡ Konja K. Snusel (17 years): ???
$ Olivia Favillina (23 years): 5' 5", 115 lbs || 165.1 cm, 52.2 kg
$ Helvetica (28 years): 5', 0 lbs || 152.4 cm, 0 kg
$ Kenna Gunnhildr (19 years): 5' 6", 130 lbs || 167.6 cm, 59.0 kg
$ Aeshma (23 years): 5' 11", 125 lbs || 177.8 cm , 56.7 kg
$ Calesedria (???): ???
$ Rhyisjir the Burned (Pending): Pending
$ ^ Crytha Tamegall (13 years): 8'4" 350lbs || 254 cm, 158 kg
$ ※ 4916 (???): ???

† She's the size of a petite hill giant, is this even Medium?
‡ probably damn fucking heavy
※ THICC!!!!1!one
^ Just a LITTLE bit above the breakpoint for large size.

>>52814686
I purposefully went "fuck this" after I realized our resident politics wonk was pulling the campaign too far into skeevy backroom deals. My monk wasn't that much fun, and he'd spent the third campaign roleplaying a gun-to-the-head interrogation with someone who was supposed to be an innocent bystander.

So I let my guy fade into the background, rerolled as a Barbarian/Bard and made it my goal to become king by my own hand. The campaign was a lot more fun when INTRIGUE and MORAL GREY AREAS could be avoided by rolling up with some horses and going "Get on, losers! We're going linnorm-slaying!"

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Tallest:
Crytha (254 cm)
Umbrane (229 cm)
Ecaterina (221 cm)
Cisjika (203 cm)
Romulus (198 cm)

Heaviest:
Konja (~∞)
Umbrane (175 kg)
Crytha (158 kg)
Cijiska (96.2 kg)
Romulus (95.3 kg)

Lightest:
Helvetica (0)
Ecaterina (0)
Alkurith (24.5 kg)
Fahd (44 kg)
Olivia (52 kg)

Shortest:
Fahd (139.7 cm)
Alkurith (144.2 cm)
Helvetica (152.4 cm)
FalseMask!Ecaterina (162.6 cm)
Olivia (165.1 cm)

Oldest:
Kanna (∞)
Chiundra (315 years)
Alkurith (38 years)

Youngest:
Ecaterina (29 days)
Crytha (13 yrs)
Konja (17 years)

Highest Mass / Height Ratio‡:
Umbranae (76.42 ᵏᵍ/ₘ) ※
Crytha (62.20 ᵏᵍ/ₘ)
Romulus (48.13 ᵏᵍ/ₘ)
Lucius (47.61 ᵏᵍ/ₘ)
Cisjika (47.34 ᵏᵍ/ₘ)

Lowest Mass / Height Ratio‡:
Ecaterina (0)
Helvetica (0)
Alkurith (16.99 ᵏᵍ/ₘ)
Fahd (31.50 ᵏᵍ/ₘ)
Olivia (31.62 ᵏᵍ/ₘ)

Average Male Height, Weight [8 samples, 8 samples]
5' 9¼", 148 lbs || 175.8 cm, 67 kg

Average Female Height, Weight [12 samples, 12 samples]†
6' 2", 158 lbs || 187.7 cm, 71.2 kg

Median Male Height, Weight
6', 154 lbs || 182.7 cm, 69.9 kg

Median Female Height, Weight
5' 8½", 139.5 lbs || 173.8 cm, 63.3 kg

† Does not include Konja, who is probably 8' tall and weighs a few metric tons
‡ also known as Linear Mass Density γₘ for Engineering/Physicsfags
※ UGH THICCER etc.

NOTES:
Lucius has fallen off both the Tall and Heavy lists.
4916 is probably going to bump off the last male from the Tall and Heavy lists since she's UGH THICKER
Ecaterina is the recordholder of most lists made, being on five different lists. She's first place on three lists.
Overlewd is full of motherfucking manlets.

PS: PAGE SIX

>>52814720
>not a new IP
What did he mean by this?

>>52814735
Why is Beast V and VI not in trove anyway

>>52814686
I have. Fell for the god wizard meme when the party is a bunch of low op shitbuild murderhobos who only want to spend time in combat.

And the campaign suddenly turned into a mostly-aquatic one. So a good chunk of my pregame spell selection is fucked and we never go to towns to buy spells and getting loot is myth.

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Some more Starfinder details popped up on the Paizo blog.

>When your characters first board their starship, each player chooses one of five roles for his or her character: captain, engineer, gunner, pilot, or science officer. Only one character each can be the captain and the pilot, but depending on the configuration of your vessel, you may want multiple engineers or gunners. Each role gives the character assuming it a number of actions she can perform during the battle. The captain can give encouraging speeches or make demands of the rest of the crew, granting valuable bonuses. A science officer can scan enemy ships and target specific systems on those vessels. An engineer can boost power to the engines or repair a malfunctioning weapon. A gunner fires the ship's weapons at the enemy, taking precise shots or unleashing a volley of lasers.

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5ljqr?Starship-CombatI-Am-a-Leaf-on-the-Wind

So what role is your character going to pick on their Starship?

>>52814686
>make a samurai for what looks like an idol game

I don't even know how someone could misread a setting prompt that badly.

>>52814747
Doesn't even have the new girl

Fucking worthless.

>>52814760
>he isn't a Samurai Idol

Git gud

>>52814761
1. 2000 characters.
2. It's not even an app.

>>52814776
Thats bigoted dude.

>>52814747
Might wanna check Romulus again.

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>>52814485
>The world ended up considerably less harsh after 2hu did a quick tour of the world and nonlethally knocked out or mind controlled everyone problematic, depending on the situation.
Was 2hu in the right?

Higher quality: http://i.imgur.com/BwuG9uK.png

>>52814783
>8'0''
"No"

>>52814793
Oh yes...giant blood.

>>52814783
Cube and the Wraith become Large after a while so you're still going to be stuck at #4

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>>52814760
There's an entire anime about someone misreading the prompt. He was going to play a Kabuki Actor in a Japanese inspired sci-fi setting. When the shooting started, he actually pulled through

>>52814799
He's an Aasimar not a Giant.

>>52814802
Good. The bed will be large enough for my app to sleep on.

>>52814807
He's a half-giant now. What the fuck am I even doing anymore?

>>52814787
I had a player who tried to do something similar and had his teeth kicked in by an insane homeless man with oracle levels.

>>52814799
>>52814819
Okay but are you serious? I can add it in if you're serious, it's not really hard. Probably going to rape your build sideways though.

>>52814747
>>52814755
>9 lbs, 10 inches

>>52814787
Enslavement.

>>52814824
Why would you do that?

>>52814826
I'll manage.

>>52814835
Homeless man didn't want to be mind controlled and was CE. He was at the center of a religious movement embroiling the urban poor. He was an oracle created by the same force behind the religious movement and was getting tortured by the voices.

The player bit off more than they could chew.

>>52814835
Because mind rape is evil

Reminder to buy THCC stock from /pfg/'s greatest ally, and sell me all your (((worthless))) SMOL stock, it's of no use to you.

>>52814873
I will continue to invest in ANML and GNL and you can't stop me

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>>52814873
How come there are never traps in /pfg/ games?
When has a trap ever made it?

>>52814920
They tend to trigger themselves

>>52814873
>he's not investing in PLNT

Haha fucking day trader

>>52814920
Because traps by themselves aren't anything special and anyone who makes them tends to make them nothing but the fetish.

>>52814920
>what is wrath of the raunchy
>what is hell's rebels
>what is legacy of blood and flame
>what is shardwalkers probably (I didn't pay attention)

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>all of these faggot investing in anything
>still needing money

>>52814765
Fucking do it already, you've been saying you'll brew this ruleset for weeks. Just keep shit simple, make grapple less actions, etc etc. It's not hard to homebrew things anon. Go through the combat maneuvers one by one, wonder why some of them aren't just barely-different uses of a broader one, remember that you can't just remove any of them or a house of cards in feats and class features tumbles down, drink, then write with less scope than you wanted, wonder why you bothered. Bam, homebrew process finished.

>>52814945
literally no to Shardwalkers

>>52814747
>>52814755

Should consider Umbra has 2 extra heads and necks, that is probably a lot of weight.

>>52814873
Is 4ARMS still stable?

>>52814954
Hey m8 I'm only doing straight stats

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>>52814760
Honestly? It's an easy mistake to make.

Can't even go to the maid cafe without somebody slipping a samurai in.

>>52814945
>what is legacy of blood and flame
???

>>52814805
I want to FUCK Alto

>>52814755
Who are the serious apps? The ones who aren't attention-whoring or clearly jokes?

>>52814981
>DHB entered as a reverse trap

>>52814995
who knows or cares

just ride the wave

>>52814995

Yours and The Ones You Like

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>>52814873
Discord cannot be trusted.

>>52814995
IIRC, Lucius, Allanz, Cijiska, Romulus, and Crytha

>>52814995
The ones that aren't Broodie or Argentum and there's one more who can't actually play.

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>>52814983
I'm going to run a Vajra centered game and you are going to like it!

>>52815050
Will I get to fuck Alto?

>>52814995
>clearly jokes
The only clear jokes are Broodie's and Argentum's, who can't play. Succube and THICK are silly but they might work depending.

If you mean Serious Character serious?

>Romulus
>Allanz
>Sinh
>Lucius
>† Linus
>Fahd
>Alkurith
>Serax
>Stefon
>Edward

>Emilia
>† Chiundra
>Ecaterina
>Cisjiska
>Umbranae
>Ingrid
>Olivia
>Helvetica
>Kenna
>Aeshma
>Calesedria
>Rhyisjir
>Crytha

† Maybe

In other words, most of them are pretty serious characters despite the memery or little jokes in their character, a few are silly but legit apps, and two or three are just "I can't play but I'm applying anyway".

>>52815050
Is that an Elite from Halo?

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>>52814787
>>52814860
>>52814834
Is it bad if it makes the world a genuinely better place?

>>52815060
Broodie's isn't really even a joke anymore since he deleted Vivienne which was just a blatant fetishbait joke

>>52815066
>"Is mind controlling someone and taking away their free will evil"

Literally yes.

Do not get into an alignment argument again.

>>52815033
Most of them are serious, there's really no reason Sinh, Edward, Stefon, Emilia, Ghost Duo, Treant, etc. aren't serious apps.

>>52815067
He can't actually play though, which is why he's 100% not serious from any angle. It's not even an app.

>>52815073
>"Is killing someone evil"

hot

>>52815073
What about brainwashing and indoctrination? I'm not taking away their free will.

>>52815099
Yeah, usually.

>>52815097
I mean, its a pretty full on 'app'. even if its not an app

>>52815099
If its anything but justified self defense or defense of another, literally yes.

>>52815106
Yes. Brainwashing someone is evil. Indoctrinating people is evil.

Making people into your slaves is evil.

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>>52815055
Roll for it.

>>52815062
Yup, got it from /v/. I think I have some of the canon females if you want 'em.

>>52815106
Cults are still evil.

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>>52815115
>Making people into your slaves is evil.
Was 2hu making people into slaves?

Rolled 7 (1d20)

>>52815116

>>52815115
>Brainwashing someone is evil. Indoctrinating people is evil
Explain why? I'm not taking away their free will.

>>52815117
But I'm not taking away their free will. Free will is just personality, and personality is a combination of experiences, memories, and basic nature. Changing someone's personality through indoctrination / education is no different from changing their personality by teaching them Aristotle and Sophocles.

>>52815122
Effectively yes.

Don't fuck with other people's heads, its fucking evil.

>>52815115
>If its anything but justified self defense or defense of another, literally yes.
Is it evil to kill a hero trying to stop a CE murderer if that CE person is your father?

>>52815136
Because you're doing it to them against their will, you absolute mongrel.

>>52815120
I know the "standard play" benchmarks, but what're the overkill benchmarks for high end bullshit?

I know autistic TWF Slayer can do about 200 on a full round at 11, but I think I've heard autistic Archery Paladins do about that much around 8 or something?

>>52815060
Wist has said it's very unlikely he'll be able to play so the cube is probably not something I would bet on

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>>52815134
Not high enough, but you do find this other blue haired individual

>>52815147
>against their will
Says who? Indoctrination doesn't need to be against their will, neither does brainwashing. Depending on who you ask all the Church / various educational systems do are brainwashing / indoctrination.

>>52815146
Questionably, arguably acts of extreme emotion beyond ones own control may not be evil, but actively choosing to defend someone that is CE, fully knowing that they are a murder, makes you an accessory to the murder of others, and would be evil.

>>52815146
Yes, because daddy is still a murderer.

Beating the living piss out of that hero and incapacitating him, maybe.

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>>52815120
>>52815153
>PoW benchmark damage
>Steel Flurry Strike + Powerful Build + Primal Warrior Stance + Reflected Blade Style

>>52815153
The general benchmarks ideally should have to do with "Rounds to down an equal CR monster" or "Probability to down an equal CR monster in one round"

>>52815159
I am ok with this

>>52815166
>primal warrior stance
>on non-zenith builds
>on a steel flurry build
Nigga you retarded? Elemental Flux Stance is way better.

>>52815147
I went to elementary, middle, and high school against my will and going there shaped my personality forever. We had to submit to authority and pledge allegiance to our country every day or suffer immediate and sometimes long lasting punishment, as well as reduced grades in some cases.

Was that evil?

>>52815162
But actively choosing to allow someone to kill your father would also be evil especially if he never actually harmed you or your family, or if he's just an LE autocrat.
Basically, the alignment system is fucking stupid.

>>52815190
>>52815160
You're right. Slavery was absolutely right and moral.

How could I think otherwise.

Free will is just a social construct XD

>>52815192
More like the concept of good/evil itself is inherently flawed.

>>52814750
>third campaign
Fuck, meant third session roleplaying brutal interrogations.
Even that edgy motherfucker would have the tact to not waste three CAMPAIGNS being grim.

>>52815215
Nice strawman; Free Will is an abstract concept, and cannot exist by itself in a vacuum since it reflects your personality, which is shaped by your experience.
>Slavery was absolutely right
Define "right".
>and moral
Morality is defined. If someone is pressed into hard labor for the rest of his life due to outstanding debt, corruption, and murder, I'm not sure that's Evil.

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>>52815187

Primal warrior stance ekes out an extra +1d6 given powerful build. Its "extra damage" is not actually extra damage and is multiplied on a critical hit, and it does not have to contend with energy resistance.

You are correct that elemental flux stance is too strong, however. In one game I currently play in, at one point, *all four* PCs had elemental flux stance as their default stance, before one of the PCs was rebuilt otherwise.

>>52815215
But it's absolutely true. People go to church of their own free will, they learn Church Doctrine (aka literal by definition indoctrination), and then they act upon the doctrines they learned.

>>52815136
You type really well one handed.

I'm afraid hypno fetish is an >>>/aco/ thing, though.

>>52815232
>>52815221

Fantastic, we're full on post-modernism college students now

Good and evil aren't real things, Right and Wrong are subjective.

Fucking love it. Seriously. Slow clap.

>>52815215
Do you have an argument or are you just going to jump to something unrelated, say we said something we didn't, and call it a day?

>>52815247
which is literally different from brainwashing and forcing someone to be indoctrinated

>>52815251
Do you? Because you're literally jumping to unrelated shit

Schooling is not forcing someone into indoctrination and brainwashing, you absolutely edgy child.

>>52815239

Is Landsknecht worthwhile 2hu? I can't help but feel as though if you're going to one hand a big weapon with something like stupendous strength you may as well TWF with iron tortoise style and get the extra 1 million attacks

>>52815260
What do you call forcing people to act a certain way or be punished until they accept it and act like you want them to then? Slavery, apparently?

>>52815279
"Schooling is exactly the same as torture, there are no shades of gray here at all."

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>>52815267

It is usually better to wield a two-handed weapon with a direct offense stance (e.g. pugilist stance at early levels, elemental flux stance, primal warrior stance, stance of the silver crane) rather than expend resources to turn "one-handed weapon and free hand" into a viable fighting style.

>>52815249
That's literally not an argument. Morality is literally defined; we can find differing views on what is considered right and just. The fact of the matter is that any mode of morality is simply defined and that "good" within a community simply tends to the one people accept within that community.

>>52815248
What the fuck are you even talking about? That's completely unrelated. I'm not talking about hypnotism.

>>52815260
Except it isn't, since indoctrination is "Indoctrination is the process of inculcating a person with ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or professional methodologies (see doctrine)." or "The process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically." or "to instruct especially in fundamentals or rudiments, to imbue with a usually partisan or sectarian opinion, point of view, or principle". Church, certain modes of education, and so on are literally indoctrination by definition.

>>52815287
Indoctrination is not torture nor related to torture.

>>52815287
You keep jumping to extremes and ignoring whatever the other person says. Again, are you going to make an argument? Or just claim the other person said something they didn't and pretend they did?

>>52815308
Are you going to make arguments instead of jumping to extremes?

>>52815313
Already did, you can refer to several of the posts above if you wish. I'm still waiting for you to actually make a point instead of ignore definitions and jump to extremes.

>>52815303
How dumb am I for going with a polearm dancer+Riven+Mithral build on a warlord?

>>52815330
You literally haven't made a point, you've been making false equivalencies

Kill yourself.

>>52815249
>Good and Evil aren't real things
They're not objective / universal things that everyone agrees on. Unless God comes in to tell you what's right and wrong (which is by the way how it works in pathfinder and in a lot of societies, one of the primary functions of the divine was to simply say "yes, this is good" and "no, this is bad", see Ahura Mazda, Spenta Mainyu, and Angra Mainyu for the logical endpoint of this) there is no actual way to prove you're right in your views of right and wrong. But you don't have to actually be objectively right in your views of morality to act on them, spread them, and build a community off of them - there's plenty of ancient societies that would be "evil" by today's standards yet ran on their own anyway because everyone WITHIN the society accepted good and evil in their way.

>Right and Wrong are subjective
No, right and wrong are words used only for objective things. 1+1 = 2 is 'right'. 1+1= 3 is 'wrong'. These statements are true by definition. That being said, moral right and moral wrong have to be subjective, because morality is not universal nor objective.

>>52815335
Couldn't think of something other than slavery and torture, huh?

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>>52815334

Riven Hourglass and Mithral Current are good sources of multiattacks.

You should do well with a damage-dice-adding stance.

>>52815354
"Its just a bit of brain fuckery bro! Just a little reverse Ludovico! Totally moral and right and upstanding!"

Paladinfag btfo

>>52815365
I'm planning on Reaching Blade to hold me out for a while. I just hope that going dex isn't a mistake, but the defensive aspects from the ac, initiative, reflex, movement speed, and flowing creek seem too good to pass up.

>>52814948
Beat him to it, at least to an extent.
>>52814769

Awesome Blows push targets around and incentivize going bowling. The Style Strikes use the three saves instead of the ill conceived CMB/CMD system. Giant Toss specifically allows for flinging people around.

The Ungovernable Brawler is ungoverned by the standard combat maneuver system.

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>>52815373
Just a little repost to test the waters and have stuff to read in morning!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcFIR6Bft9g

IN A WORLD...

A great evil took over the world using hordes of demons and machinery beyond comprehension. The five greatest kingdoms of the world sent out their five most attractive heroes and gave them the blessings of their gods to defeat the evil, using them to rally the armies of the righteous to crush this threat.

They failed, and the world was plunged into darkness. The heroes could not be killed, however... as their blessings resulted in them being revived at the nearest holy site. So the evil gathered up all of the relics and holy items and cast them into the Tetranopticon, a vast interdimensional prison cut off from linear time.

Stripped of their power and banished into a prison teeming with the worst, the heroes have become...

PRETTY PALADINS IN PERIL!

>Traits to be in the men's or women's sections of the prison despite your sex.
>All Paladin archetypes are allowed, more or less, to create diversity.
>Every character must describe the code of ethics they live by.
>Lawful Good ethics are proscriptive and demand action: "you may not be evil", "you must oppose evil and bring justice"
>Neutral Good ethics are relativist and demand philosophical rigor: "you must create the best of all worlds",
>Chaotic good ethics are aesthetic and demand action: "you must be righteous", "you must oppose oppression and bring freedom"
>No non-consensual sex, but seducing enemies may be a way to resolve challenges.

>>52815384
Dex is not a mistake unless your goal was the most possible damage you could be dealing or you are a Zweihander Warder

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>>52815384

This depends on your class, your starting level, and whether or not Weapon Master's Handbook custom weapons are allowed.

>>52815412
>no non-consensual sex

dropped

>>52815372
You're replying to the wrong guy but can you answer me on how indoctrination is evil? The definition of indoctrination is such that most school courses up to junior or senior high school, almost all if not all religion, almot any view of absolute morality, and most forms of cultivated pride can count as indoctrination. Hell, it's technically indoctrination if your parents tell you as a kid "okay mommy's going out don't open the door no matter what, just don't do it". It's for your own good, but it's still indoctrination.

>>52815412
Is this another lewdgame?

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>>52815412
>No non-consensual sex

>>52815418
~

>>52815421
Perish the thought.

>>52815421
"the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically."

Yes, I think if you 'indoctrinate' someone, you are doing harm to them.

Furthermore, if you're indoctrinating someone against their will, like 2hu was doing, ITS DEFINITELY EVIL.

How is this even an argument, Brainwashing/mindraping ect. people in the name of order is basically textbook LE.

>>52815412

I really like this music

>>52815438
What if it is in the name of not just order, but also good?

Like forcing evil orcs to be reeducated into upstanding and productive members of society. Not because you have anything to gain from it, but because if they kept being evil bad shit would happen to people and you don't want to just kill or imprison them.

>>52815467
Literally textbook LE, even if its for a good cause, the ends do not justify the means.

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>>52815412
Stop playing Persona 5.

>>52815474
So just kill them? Isn't killing bad?

>>52815487
Not if its in justified self defense or the defense of others.

>>52815492
So then why is forced reeducation in defense of others evil if basically genocide in self defense is not?

>>52815436
I'm not asking for 2hu, I asked if indoctrination is itself evil.

>uncritically
That definition is only present in Oxford Dictionary. Merriam Webster uses "to instruct especially in fundamentals or rudiments" and "to imbue with a USUALLY partisan or sectarian opinion, point of view, or principle". Telling someone, for example, life is valuable, is generally indoctrination unless you have some seriously heavy firepower backup logic to it or something so it's not 'uncritical'. The fact of the matter is that logic is axiomatic, you have to assume at least a few things are true before you move on. This is why you have those stories of 5 year olds asking seriously piercing questions like "why do we care about the country", "why do you want to be rich", and "why should I help the poor", because there's axiomatic assumptions people make and never think about.

>>52815438
Yeah it is, but only in Pathfinder. Nobody's arguing the point in Pathfinder, because there's RAW instances of saying "no it's evil".

>>52815467
Lawful Evil.

>>52815487
They have to attack someone first, which is weird because you never need that requirement for stuff like Undead.

>>52815412
>>52815418
>>52815421
>>52815428
>>52815479

To clarify, this is an all-Paladins gestalt game. Everybody takes Paladin as their secondary class (and can't opt out of it except for Prestige classes that have Paladin-thematic prereqs), and receives free Cha 18 (Before racial mods) in addition to 20 other attribute points to distribute on their point buy. I'll otherwise be using gestalt rules similar to another game I've run before.

3PP content is allowed on a "share with the GM" basis.

DSP monster classes won't be allowed, but monstrous races may be seriously considered if people can be cool about it.

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>>52815513
>paladins
>stripped of their power

Haha, no.

Starting level?

>>52815412
>Neutral Good ethics are relativist and demand philosophical rigor: "you must create the best of all worlds",
>in a world with absolute morality
>relativism
>philosophical rigour
Also "the best of all worlds" is an opinion, and one that really tends fast towards Lawful Evil.

>>52815304
Indoctrination/brainwashing is a part of the hypno fetish. Don't play dumb when you're playing pseudointellectual.

Indoctrination, in any form, is considered a societal ill in modern western society; even if it can be said to be used in a proper context. Pointing out the inherent hypocrisy in this situation is basic observation and ultimately meaningless, since the power of the state on a citizen's mind is greater than the power you have to sway them as bits and bytes on the Internet. Even if you were somehow able to get a point across with definitions, logic always loses power in matters of emotion and violation of human will. Epistemic truth doesn't mean anything since all knowledge is inherently shaped by flawed sense data and internal prejudice. Even if it did, you have a Sisyphean hill to climb in convincing someone to go against their will.

In the end, there is no ultimate truth, but there is the certainty that you are an annoying faggot.

>>52815479
Also, pffft.

It's supposed to be a cheesy "Samurai Jack meets Women in Prison" genre game, not the Inception JRPG. The protagonists are heroes banished to a realm of high octane homoerotic megadungeons.

>>52815528
Probably 3-8 (I'll decide eventually), and then slow progress. Maybe a level every 3-4 sessions.

A free template gives auto-revive (so no permadeath, only losing your gear) from the ruined shrines that got sucked into the prison, and some other benefits depending on which of the five nations and their patron deities you worship.

I'll have those available as campaign traits which improve over time.

>>52815535
I might revise that down the line, but the setting isn't Golarion so 'absolute morality' doesn't really apply here.

>>52815502
Fallacious argument, killing an entire race is not justified self defense.

>>52815528
>tfw no dragonwife and dragondaughteru

Why live?

>>52815589
That's what "basically" is there for.

Replace that with "killing lots of people because of the actions of their nation/race regardless of whether or not they are guilty of those things" if you have to for some reason. Or just pretend all of them were legitimately guilty somehow.

>>52815623
Killing people because of the actions of their nation and race is evil

Killing people in legitimate, justified self defense is not.

So I guess is literally every orc tried to kill you, you would be justified in killing literally every orc.

Its on an individual basis, any orc could have decided not to try to kill you, and you would in turn not have any right to kill them, because you would not be acting in self defense.

>>52815513
Nightguard paladin archetype from DSP's LotN?
Path of War+Expanded stuff?

>>52815559
>Indoctrination/brainwashing is a part of the hypno fetish
I didn't know that and I don't care.

>Indoctrination, in any form, is considered a societal ill in modern western society
Irrelevance. In fact, simply saying 'it is so' by definition can be considered indoctrination if you tell someone that.

>since the power of the state on a citizen's mind is greater than the power you have to sway them as bits and bytes on the Internet
Arguable. While any single person is unlikely to agree in entirety with any given viewpoint, it's also true that a message, repeated often, is likely to have a good grasp on society in general. "Democracy" being a good and desireable thing, for example, is not actually universal, and never was; Japanese people hate Chinese people and vice versa despite most of them having little actual contact with each other; Americans and Chinese / Russians are harshly opposed despite most of them again having little contact with the other; and so on. This state certainly isn't something that just happened on their own. You don't need people to agree with the entire viewpoint, you simply stack a bunch of apparently different viewpoints with common factors, repeat them a lot, and most people will agree.

>in matters of emotion and violation of human will
You're too romantic; human will is not somehow invincible to outside influence, and neither is emotion.

>Even if it did, you have a Sisyphean hill to climb in convincing someone to go against their will.
But what IS their will? It isn't an abstract something in the middle of nowhere. Someone's will is their personality, which is shaped by their experiences, and even when someone's will is not necessarily aligned with yours, there's plenty of other effects, such as the authority effect, the expertise effect, and mob mentality that can bend him towards you while respecting his own will.

>>52815634
What about killing undead? Because I'm pretty sure killing undead is Good in RAW by default.

>>52815644
Tell me what those things do.

>>52815653
Undead are always evil

>>52815634
So how do you handle the situation then? Go to where the orcs live and kill only the guilty ones somehow, then leave, leaving the rest to fend for themselves? And again, how is killing them better than reeducating them?

>>52815658
You only defend against their attacks, allow them to retain free will, and don't attempt to 'reeducate' them because thats fucking evil Mao you fucking communist.

>>52815657
What if it's just a Lich who kept his mind and makes it rain on time in his home village?

>>52815665
So you're always on the back foot? Wouldn't that be Evil because you're allowing an orcish tribe who you know is going to raid you to wander through your lands and don't do anything until they've plundered a town?

>>52815666
In order to become a lich you need to do shit like kill thousands and torture souls.

>>52815666
what about 'always evil' do you not understand

>>52815656
>Nightguard
Trades out Aura of Courage for +AC vs crits aura, LoH and Mercies for rider effects on Smite Evil and some other goodies, a CoC that mostly removes the possibility of falling.

>Path of War
So that the martial can somewhat keep up with casters in flexibility.

>>52815665
That's the worst possible solution. The raids continue, innocent people are killed/kidnapped, an orc village prospers from raiding, villages become poorer, people cry out for help and only receive it if they are lucky enough to be defended at the time of the next raid.

>>52815675
Its the only moral way to act.

>>52815696
Morality and efficiency rarely coincide.

>>52815700
>Only moral way to act
No, the entire orc population as a whole acts as a source of active danger. You put down a dog with the rabies before it bites anything.
It is one's moral duty to safeguard one's family, and as such, eliminating the potential threat comes first.

>>52815714
Yeah I'm going to take the really high moral stance of 'murdering a person based on their race alone is wrong' and feel comfortable with it. Got it /pol/?

>>52815665
>>52815474
The funny thing is that history shows us that most societies choose order over freedom - they choose this of their own free will. Most people are really more concerned with security than what D&D calls "good", but that would mean that since good is concerned with following people's will that certain forms of LE is good.

>>52815687
Not necessarily, the actual ritual is supposed to 'vary among every caster', the only common point is that you end up with a Phylactery. You could probably even end up as a Lich via some ancient artifact or via divine intervention.

>>52815692
Lichs are intelligent and have free will ergo they can be not-evil, otherwise Orcs, who are Chaotic Evil in the Beastiary, should be even more kill-on-sight since Lichs as Neutral Evil are at least more amenable to negotiation.

>>52815700
The only moral way to act is to allow your people to get raped, killed, and have their shit stolen from them when you could've prevented it?

>>52815746
I think society as a whole tends to focus on 'Order' over 'Good', since society propagates itself based on Order, nor its morality.

>>52815746
>Not necessarily, the actual ritual is supposed to 'vary among every caster', the only common point is that you end up with a Phylactery. You could probably even end up as a Lich via some ancient artifact or via divine intervention.
Not true any longer, the stated way of becoming a lich now is always evil and always makes you evil.

>Eternal Apotheosis
>School necromancy [evil]; Level 9
>necromancy [evil]
>[evil]

>>52815729
Doesn't matter that they are orcs. If they were a human or giant or whatever else tribe, they'd have to be put down.

>>52814686
This is good

>Let me snooze, ruse ooze

>>52815700
I gave you the option to either kill all the orcs or try to incorporate them into civilized society and you decided the most morally good course of action was to let people continue to be killed by raiders indefinitely.

After years of soldiers scrambling to try to cover every village and road that could be raided and the orcs prospering, extreme racism escalates and "deal with the orcs" becomes a more and more important issue for the people, who eventually put someone in power who will actually do something about it, probably without even considering reeducation or imprisonment after the last few years have shifted public opinion and going straight to kill all of the orcs. Now that they have hardened and well armed veterans after years of pillaging, the small war is brutal and many lives are lost.

Happy?

>>52815467
More evil than just killing them.

>>52815759
It's not just "society as a whole", it's "the population of that society as a whole" too. Most people are more concerned with knowing what comes next, their own security, their own well-being, than random philosophical bullshit about freedom. While you have personal heroes who martyr themselves for ideals and sometimes you have entire communities who are up in zeal, under most circumstances people simply don't care. There's a reason why, say, Chinese people calling for democracy dropped sharply in frequency after not Tiananmen but the '97 crisis and then then the '08 crisis. Democracy is all well and good, freedom is nice, but then they think "wait but is it actually effective and stable", and they look around at economic crises and think no. By the way Good works, which is respecting free will, LE suddenly becomes Good because it's literally what The People want.

>>52815794
If my only options are not kill the orcs, genocide, or Brainwashing, I choose not kill the orcs, every time.

Ideally I would work towards some sort of peace process in tandem with orc leaders, attempting to find a peaceful solution.

WWW was tonight, right? How did it go? Does the party get along?

>>52815808
But that isn't true because education and indoctrination could easily be as simple as teaching them "Life is Valuable", "Killing is Wrong", "The Law is more important than Power", and "Being productive together is better than being strong alone" from a young age. How is telling them basic facts about how to be Good evil?

>>52815819
>Hurr the orcs whose culture is all about the strong taking what they want from the weak will agree to a peaceful solution

>>52815834
It went well, I can greentext for you

>>52815771
Some classes can cast spells that oppose their alignment. It might cause them to shift, but nothing stops them from going back up.

That's also just one ritual. You can become a lich starting at CL 11, if I remember correctly, with almost any caster. Even druids and bloodragers, if I really remember correctly. The methods to become one are not stated in detail so it's hard to say how evil performing the ritual is.

>>52815819
>genocide
I would go to their village and kill every male between the age of 13 and 30 (every adult male orc who hasn't hit aging penalties).

That'll show them to attack villages.

>>52815834
Hell's Rebels Group A was also tonight. What happened?

>>52815837
>its impossible to chance culture peacefully and willingly

hmm

>>52815843
Reasonable, after all collective guilt is fair.

>>52815840
That would be cool!

>>52815808
If you really think that I can't stop you. But I would rather teach a criminal to fish than execute him and I'm about 95% sure that's the morally correct choice.

Homebrew idea

>mystic archetype that trades out recovery method, blade meditation, and instant enlightenment for a more standard recovery, and swaps from wis-based to int-based (maybe cha instead)

>bonus idea: maybe it swaps out the craft stuff for actually getting features that let it use mithral current well, like sheathing as a free action, threatening while sheathed, and being able to draw on AoOs.

What's the difference between a lesser / regular / greater rod? Uses per day?

>>52815841
Becoming a Lich is an evil act that requires you sacrificing a minimum of 1 person by pumping them full of negative energy.

Lich, the template, are "Any Evil".
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/lich/

> The methods to become one are not stated in detail so it's hard to say how evil performing the ritual is.
Pazio went back on that when Occult Rituals came out and added Eternal Apotheosis. The ritual is the culmination of their "descent into evil" by the rituals own wording.

>>52815819
The only way that could work is if the Orcs are somehow already brainwashed into agreeing with your culture of negotiation. Orcs in the lore are like memevikings on steroids, they take whatever they want without regard for law or lives because they're strong and you're weak. To orcs that's how the world works, their law IS the Strong Eat the Weak.

>>52815849
>hmm
It actually [is] impossible to change an entire tribe's culture to the opposite of what it was without indoctrination or brainwashing. The Romans did it to tribes that settled in their borders, the Chinese did it to groups bordering them - but indoctrination isn't actually something that's violent or even against somene's will.

>>52815840
Include a description of the party. I like green texts but I forget who was on it.

>>52815849
>Reasonable, after all collective guilt is fair.
It is. They all profited from the raiding even if they didn't participate. I would put an end to the raiding.

>>52815864
The level of spell that they can modify, I believe. Lesser 3, normal 6, greater 9?

And cost, of course.

>>52815808
>See orcs
>they're strong
>they're healthy
>but they want to kill everyone
>they don't look down on physical work
>"it's Good to let them kill my people, Evil to stop them from killing my people, and the Evilest to teach them that killing is wrong and employ them in farming and construction work where they would be appreciated and productive members of society for both sides"

>>52815906

Little humans dicks
>BOO

Big Orc cocks!
>YAAAAAAAAY

>>52815906
RELIGION

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>>52815882
Oh, that makes sense.

where in the book does it explain rods, anyway

>>52815870
>Pazio went back on that when Occult Rituals came out and added Eternal Apotheosis. The ritual is the culmination of their "descent into evil" by the rituals own wording.

Yeah but that's a level 9 spell for, I assume, only occultists (I haven't looked into occult shit much). If a level 11 druid can become a lich, there must be another way. Unless I'm missing something the template page doesn't say anything about requiring a sacrifice.

I don't have anything for the template saying "Any evil", though. That's pretty solid.

>>52815928

They only included it as an example, by RAW I don't think you can even learn it without GM permission.

>>52815920
Why not? Introduce them to some goddess of farming and show them that they could be eating like a pig every month [each] without travelling all over trying to find pig farmers who may or may not even have more than four pigs.

>>52815926
>literal mind rape
Indotrination isn't literal mind rape. What the fuck do you call a process by which you change their fundamental value systems if not indoctrination? Do you think indoctrination USUALLY occurs against someone's will? You can't fucking indoctrinate someone who isn't willing to listen in the first place.

>>52815945
What if the orcs don't want to do your farming horseshittery?

>>52815945
If you're doing it against their will then it's mind rape. Just because you utterly break the person where they can no longer fight back doesn't mean it's consensual from that point forward. Go heck yourself.

>>52815847
Session was cut short due to the GM's shoulder pain making typing unbearable. There was a decent amount of RP and plot advancement, but I'm far too lazy to make a greentext for it at the moment.

>>52815945
OF

>>52815954

Then they can get an arrow in the eyeball courtesy of an Erastilean paladin, like all the rest of the MIGHTY WARRIORS too good to do a day's work instead of murdering and pillaging.

>>52815984
>Do as I say or Die

So lawful. So good.

>>52815987
More like

>Do as I say or I will protect innocent people, whatever that entails

>>52815954
That's what indoctrination is for, and if they don't want to we can say "well shit we tried"; it's better than just letting them fucking raid your lands while being canonically Chaotic Evil and saying "no it'd be evil to stop them". You know what, actually, since their entire tribe is on the land, if they go berserk you'd actually be able to kill them in self defense.

>>52815961
You can't brainwash someone against their will effectively, there's a reason most things people call brainwashing true or not (religion, value systems, nationalism, etc.) start young or at the person's own request. No matter how much you torture a zealot he's not going to actuall convert, he's just going to pretend he converted.

>>52815975
I don't see what that has to do with anything, if you actually design a religion of peace meant to brainwash big dumb brutes then how is that a meme?

>>52815987
>let Chaotic Evils kill your people and raid your lands because it'd be evil to stop them
>it'd also be evil to teach them to NOT be Chaotic and Evil because hurr against their will hurr against their nature
Mhmm Good and Lawful
If you actually ran a country this way you'd find your entire frontier population screaming for your head within a fortnight. Or for Orcish dick.

>>52815966
Make a greentext for it anyway. Ask the GM if you can post logs!

>>52816005
PEACE

>>52815987

They want to make a living killing innocent people and stealing their shit, they don't get to cry when that "living" turns out shorter than they hoped.

>>52816005
>You can't brainwash someone against their will

That's like literally the defintion, but since I'm feeding I'll give you another (you)

>>52816014
You cut a piece of that greentext off that was important.

>>52816025
So? Unwilling is still unwilling. It's mindrape. Just because it's less efficient doesn't make it less evil.

>be paladin
>orcs raiding village
>go and kill any raiders as they represent a constant and meaningful threat to innocents

I don't kill non-raiders. I kill all the ones who represent that constant threat. Anyone who doesn't do this is retarded and on the opposite retarded extreme from genocide happy paladins.

>>52816031
>>You can't brainwash someone against their will effectively

>That's like literally the defintion, but since I'm feeding I'll give you another (you)

It's gibberish now.

I'm not them. Make an argument against them if you want. You should probably define 'mindrape' while you are at it.

>>52816037
Heck, I go there and demand they stop, if they refuse or seem to be lying I kill the enough to remove the threat.

Give them a chance to stop. If they don't kill them.

That's LG, you're protecting innocents from danger.

>>52816041
Nah, I'm pretty content I'm just feeding a fetish of yours.

>>52816037
The entire point of raiding is to quickly attack an undefended area and take everything you can, then leave.

You can't be everywhere.

>>52816014
Tell me how the fuck you can possibly brainwash someone against their will without using literal magic, which is not what we're talking about. Can you find me even one example of a brainwashing against someone's will that actually worked? No.
Brainwashing happens either at a young age when people are 'blank' and can be fed basically anything into being a fundamental 'true', when they want to learn, or at least are not already hostile. If you try to brainwash someone who isn't listening you're going to have to resort to torture, and at that point, he's just going to pretend to confess, to pretend to convert.

>>52816031
But you literally can't. It's like trying to indoctrinate a zealous Christian with Pagan ideas or vice versa. You can probably get someone with no religious views either way into either camp, but you can't brainwash a hardline fascist into being a hardline anarchist because he's just not fucking listening, you'd have to give actual logical arguments and everything to even have a chance of making it work (and it's almost entirely guarenteed not to work) There are no instances of brainwashing or indoctrination that work when the other person isn't actually listening, or is only listening because he fears what you'll do if he doesn't let you talk. This doesn't mean he believes you or is actually listening.

>>52816037
Raiders don't attack places with Paladins in them, they hunt for the places without Paladins and Wizards and fucking scram when they regulars and adventurers come. Raids aren't invasions, they're like hit-and-run tactics focused on plundering as much as you can while fighting as little as you can because you're not actually equipped to go against the army.

>>52816063
No I mean I go to the Orc's village and kill all the raiders. They have to live somewhere. I go there and kill the part of their population who participate in raiding.

>>52816059
Isn't correct. The orcs needs to be punished for their crimes of killing innocents. If they do not repent and accept punishment then they need to be removed as a threat.

Punishment for banditry, murder, theft, and wanton destruction is generally death.

>>52816078
>Raiders don't attack places with Paladins in them, they hunt for the places without Paladins and Wizards and fucking scram when they regulars and adventurers come. Raids aren't invasions, they're like hit-and-run tactics focused on plundering as much as you can while fighting as little as you can because you're not actually equipped to go against the army.
I'm not talking about stopping the raid, you can't be everywhere at once.

You go to their village and kill raiders.

>>52816083
It depends on the type of paladin you play but I'm pretty sure if someone Evil actually goes Good you don't [need] to smite them anymore.

>>52816078
>Tell me how the fuck you can possibly brainwash someone against their will without using literal magic

Are you actually arguing that that never occurs in our world? Okay, hun.

>>52816078
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

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WWW Greentext

The Party is
>Mary, The Doll, Cute Sorceress, also half haemonculus... Somehow.
>Rich, The Scoundrel with a Heart of Gold and amateur historian
>Magwau, The Native Trickster, Archer, and Mindmage.
>Jenny, The Civil War Vet (Basically a Confederate) With an arsenal wielded by spectral limbs.
>Kachina, Native Markswoman, blurrs the line between native and non-native with her pistolwork.

>Party wakes up, in a makeshift medical room
>As they start to come to, they meet Doc Hoss, the guy who saved their lives, he crows about his success a bit, talks to them, gives them back their gear
>The Party gets to know eachother a little, learns eachothers names, and notices their respective precious items are missing.
>They learn a little bit about whats going on in Rosewater, some asshole named 'Abraham' has been harassing the town recently, and the Sheriff isn't doing dick about it
>After a little more recovery, the party heads out
>As soon as they head out they see a huge plume of smoke coming from the town!
>They rush down, only to find whats burning is the Town's church to the setting's mining god.

>>52816083
> I go there and kill the part of their population who participate in raiding.

Congratulations. Now the survivors have a specific grudge, and a new generation of raiders will be grown, perhaps with the specific intention of killing you then the villagers that sent you.

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>Abraham is there, with a small army of thugs around making sure the townsfolk can't get to the church and put the fire out
>The Sheriff and his 'deputies' (Who are just more of Abraham's thugs), are also helping keep the townsfolk back
>Abraham gives some big speech about how his employer Mr. Grey wants to buy out everyone's property, but they refused his generous offer, and this is what you get
>He offers something new, they have 3 days to get half of the original offer, or... A lot more murder
>Some girl in pink runs up and slaps him, he punches her down
>The party looks ready to fight, but Abraham holds the townspeople hostage, and rides out of town.
>The girl in pink turns out to be the proprietor of the saloon, Marcie
>She brings them into the Saloon, and they talk business
>Marcie doesn't want to run, she wants to fight, and she wants the Party's help
>Their goals are aligned, and they decide to prepare to fight off Abraham and his boys in 3 days
>First order of business is taking down the crooked Sheriff
>They decide they're going to get into the Sheriff's office and solve the problem.

>>52816088
>It depends on the type of paladin you play but I'm pretty sure if someone Evil actually goes Good you don't [need] to smite them anymore.
I can't cast atonement and don't know any 9th level clerics who can, so them changing to good isn't really a possibility. If I don't have legitimate authority to carry out justice I bring someone who does and have them give the execution orders.

>>52816108
You have detect evil, don't you? If they no longer ping they actually had a change of heart.

>>52816083
>No I mean I go to the Orc's village and kill all the raiders. They have to live somewhere. I go there and kill the part of their population who participate in raiding.

Well, that would be an almost good idea if you could do it, but there almost certainly is no way to figure out who is or isn't a raider and you will probably just have to fight every able orc in the village. You will probably run into the "Orc Babies" problem too.

But it's probably the best thing you can accomplish without loads of resources.

>>52815966
Actually screw it, why not? Don't read this if you don't want spoilers, Group B.

>After beating the devils in the cistern, the party reaps the spoils!
>A bunch of coded documents and some stupid bird statues.
>Whatever, Rexus and Serigala seem interested in translating them, so it's fine.
>Serigala has also learned more about the imp, and for the time being they are serving as a sort of shared party familiar.
>More importantly, it's time for the fledgling rebellion to establish a base of operations!
>It's a cafe! A maid cafe! A halfling maid cafe!
>Estelle frequents the place, Hana has been there a few times, Sophia does not understand what a maid cafe even is, and Serigala quite a bit about it.
>Hana is hesitant about making it the base for the revolution, she was expecting something more dark and mysterious.
>Sophia and the imp trade insults.
>Serigala diffuses the situation by buying a few books for the little shit.
>Anyway, time to go meet the maid cafe's owner.
>The party arrives, are greeted by the halfling owner, Laria. She gives them coffee and cake before beginning talks.
>She wants to know why the party is so willing to go along with the rebellion.
>Serigala is concerned about the long-term socioeconomic consequences of Barzillai's rule. And also his dad's friends are missing and papa's acting weird now.
>Sophia goes on for a bit about muh noblesse oblige. Also she apparently has a personal grudge to settle with House Thrune.
>Estelle thinks Barzillai is insane and will ruin Kintargo. Plus her smol doggo brother was arrested and she want to help him.

(cont'd)

>>52816088

True. But it's a little unlikely that the murderous bastards who attacked a village managed to turn their lives around in the time between the raid and you hunting them down like dogs.

It'd be nice if it happened, but I wouldn't exactly hold my breath.

>>52816103
And the alternative is what, let them continue to kill innocents? Kill children? Because both of those are retarded and not LG. If they start raiding again then I do it again. I continue every few years until they get it through their skulls that raiding means those who participate die.

>>52816089
Instances of brainwashing in real life:
North Korea
United States
China
Any sort of religious fanatic

Number of people affected who literally were going LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU:
0.

North Korea, China, and USA indoctrinate with cultural pride and whatever random values from the beginning and simply reinforce them through society.

>>52816098
>misinformation
>"against someone's will"
Gaslighting is about manipulating events to confuse and mislead, and loses its effectivness if the other guy actually knows what you're doing. It's more like a rhetorical / oratory tactic than anything else, much like using informal fallacies during an argument hoping to lead someone into a pit of confusion. If someone actually realizes "hey hold up that's a false equivalence / strawman / nirvana argument", then it stops working and may backfire.

>>52816104
>>52816101
i should have noted the session ended at that point, lots of 'get to know you' occurred.

>>52816122
You go into their society, become one with them, and change them from the inside. Show them the errors of their way, but be one with them! Be a shining beacon of all that is righteous and just, but temper it with mercy.

>>52816135
They're more likely to call you a dum koward

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>>52816128

>>52816143
That's when you mercifully punch them in the face! Show them you're not a coward. And when they try to fight you with a weapon you punch them again, refusing to use a weapon because it's unnecessary against such weak individuals!

>>52816114
>Well, that would be an almost good idea if you could do it, but there almost certainly is no way to figure out who is or isn't a raider and you will probably just have to fight every able orc in the village. You will probably run into the "Orc Babies" problem too.
Yes there is, we have fucking magic. We drag them into a zone of truth and have them speak out. There is a chance that I can cast zone of truth and a level 5 inquisitor/level 3 cleric aren't so uncommon I can't bring one.

> You will probably run into the "Orc Babies" problem too.
Orc babies didn't raid, no need to punish them.

>>52816112
Only works if they ping at all, which requires 5HD. Likely the orcs besides the chieftain don't have the HD to ping.

>>52816135
And when they go raiding, the fuck do you suggest doing? Just sit by and watch? The righteous and just thing is to carry out justice. The merciful thing is to give them the chance to repent and make peace with their gods before their sentence is carried out, and to not harm non-participants.

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>>52816122
You wipe them all out, of course. You have to kill all the adult females because they will be still in raiding shape, and will do so out of desperation. Most of the children will bear a grudge, and will need to be taken out. Sure, you can keep the babes alive and spread across so that they never know of their origins, but most of the population will have to be culled.

>>52816112
Or they have too few HD for Detect Evil to be able to work.

Y'know, like most commonfolk.

>>52816118

>Hana says some pretty words about Barzillai's injustices and being tired of waiting for change.
>Serigala and Estelle notice something off about this, but elect to stay quiet for now.
>Laria seems satisfied by everyone's answers, and is willing to let them use her basement, hurray!
>But first, she needs help figuring out what happened to her smuggler friend she previously let use her basement!
>And there are sewers! Apparently with magic to help with the smell and grime.
>The party bravely volunteers their aid, and begins to make preparations.

And that's where it ended. Overall a pretty fun session, if shorter than I would have liked, but what can you do?

>>52816101
>>52816104
>>52816129

Well, I'm invested. Looking forward to hearing how things progress!

>>52816162
>>52816152
>Only works if they ping at all, which requires 5HD. Likely the orcs besides the chieftain don't have the HD to ping.

Yeah, okay I forgot about that issue with detect.

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>>52816144
smuganimegirl.png loses meaning if I counter.

>>52816153
Not my place to decide if they die unless I am a legitimate authority. Raiders die because they are a constant and meaningful threat to innocents.

Women and children? We use the Zone of Truth again and see if they participate/support/etc. I either do what the law requires of me if the law is just, have an authority figure hand down sentencing, or if the laws are unjust I simply leave after destroying their means to produce weapons and return later to see if they are trying to start raiding again and repeat the process if necessary.

>>52816153
Anderson is LG.

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>>52816179
I've got enough to win, I'm sure.

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>>52816179
A nice counter, but can you handle...

THIS!?

>>52816101
>>52816104
Any OTPs???

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>>52816192
>>52816185
I'll just stop using the name scrambler for a second.

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>>52816200

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>>52816200

>>52816192
Ooh, where's that from?

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>>52816192
>>52816185
>>52816179
>>52816144
>>52816200
>>52816205
>>52816207

I must inform you ladies that you are both unfortunately outclassed

>>52816197

Mary x the entire party

>>52816207
Bubuki Buranki... Go ahead anon. You can have it. Its my gift.

>>52816152
>Orc babies didn't raid, no need to punish them.
That's the thing. You killed the people who provided for them, and left them to starve. That's why "kill all of the raiders and leave" is both the best solution one could do and yet still terrible, assuming you value the lives of orc babies at all.

Going the extra mile for zone of truthing to figure out who raided and who didn't is commendable, as it requires setting aside resources for the greater good even though lacking them could weaken you enough that you might die. Fighting nonlethally is the same. Assuming there are still able bodied orcs left after you do zone of truth thing, you might fix the first problem, actually. And all you need is a zone of truth, comprehend language, and -4 to hit.

Probably the best solution to this that I have seen, outside of a nation with huge amounts of resources dealing with the problem instead of adventurers.

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>>52816213
I'll counter your talking perverted cat with this one.

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>>52816205
>>52816207
newfag detected

>>52816213
Not a girl

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>>52816226

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>>52816226

>>52816226
But anon, you didn't post a girl either, you just posted literal garbage!

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>>52816226

>>52816122
>I continue every few years until they get it through their skulls that raiding means those who participate die.
>get it into their skulls
"remember children, to go raiding is to die, as the avenging storm will cut us down like wheat if we so much as take a single item of the humans"

Well done, you've managed to stop the raid without indoctrinati- OH WAIT YOU TAUGHT THE ORCS NOT TO ATTACK OR DIE INTO THEIR VERY BRAINS

YOU MONSTROUS MONSTROUS INDOCTRINATION SCUM

>>52816220
>That's the thing. You killed the people who provided for them, and left them to starve. That's why "kill all of the raiders and leave" is both the best solution one could do and yet still terrible, assuming you value the lives of orc babies at all.
I have neither the time nor the resources to support them. If the orcs are incapable of supporting themselves without raiding then they starve.

If able the babies and children would be sent away, but likely I don't have the resources for it and can't just carry around a dozen toddlers.

>Probably the best solution to this that I have seen, outside of a nation with huge amounts of resources dealing with the problem instead of adventurers.
Essentially this. A nation or an army could separate out raiders and send civilians away. I can't.

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>>52816224
That looks more 'happy yet sleepy' to me, honestly.

>>52816226
I thought smugness was the name of the game, not gender. I'd hoped this would be less discriminatory!

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>>52816236
Ayase is better than Neko who is better than she-who-must-not-be-named

>>52816118
>Serigala is concerned about the long-term socioeconomic consequences of Barzillai's rule.
This sounds autistic and is it any wonder it's 2hu?

>>52816253
yes

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>>52816247
Ayase is shit, just not the shittiest.

>>52816235
Please wait, invoking GR15....
Please wait, invoking GR15....
Please wait, invoking GR15....

>>52816240
The whole "teaching someone anything at any time is indoctrination if you advocate for them to take any course of action" is fucking retarded and who ever brought that up and took that stance needs to off themselves.

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>>52816263
That's not a pony, scrub, that's a magical princess classed character from Gonzo 2.

>>52816263
Who you're a whiny cunt.

That's clearly a human.

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>>52816247
The only one that mattered

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>>52816258
Stop posting /v/ material

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>>52816278
Smug is smug.

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>>52816284
okay you know what I'll bite what the fuck is with your filenames

>latest two apps for Overlewd are lolis

What did they mean by this?

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>>52816295
There's too much thicc

>>52816294
ISIS coordinates

>>52816300
Maybe 4916 killed Thicc

Maybe we're hit peak Thicc

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>>52816294
I'd rather stay smugly superior by not sharing, even though it doesn't matter.

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So what, it's smugposting time?

>>52816305
That's not true. I miss Amalthea.

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>>52816307
Are these twitter pictures or something then?

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>>52816317

I guess it is.

Kenna best girl

>>52816305
She's more musclegirl than THICC anyway

musclegirl is great too of course

>>52816324
I was debating with myself whether to use that one or Tonnura-San earlier.

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>>52816322
Nope! Keep trying.

>>52816305

Overlewd THICC is misleading, Umbra has 3 heads so her weight is going to be inflated by that.

It's most just that males are so STICC that all the female apps seem THICC in comparison.

Female numbers also inflated by Rory's gnoll which will never get in due to, well, Rory.

Cijiska weight also inflated due to multiple arms.

>>52816317
I think people wanted to strangle out the other discussion/force a new thread, but didn't start until it was already over anyway.

>>52816327
>>52816344

I like trends

There seem to be three (3) punchgirls out of Overlewd's massive number of characters

One is the half-succubus first app, one is Kanna (I think? Based off the backstory, since no sheet exists), one is the Cat-loli

Fun fact, Kanna and the Cat-Loli are both 'ageless' characters, and both are vaguely divine as well.

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>>52816329

Well, here's one for the road.

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>>52816330
I don't really care that much desu, I'm just wondering where you're getting them. It's not facebook or reddit or any fanart site I know. I'm guessing someone bundled them into a zip and pushed it up somewhere?

>>52816344
>all the female apps
You're forgetting the ghosties.

>>52816358
Catloli isn't playing, Kanna isn't vaguely divine she's explicitly divine.

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>>52816374
Or maybe I just got them all myself.

>>52816374
I'm honestly not even sure if Kanna is actually divine, or if she's just wizarding at near divine levels.

>>52816344
That's a thing people often forget.

Like, Freyda is hefty for her height, but she's also got big ol' wings and a tail too.

>>52816344
I mean that Umbra art don't lie, it's certified THICC

>>52816380
Well first of all divine levels existed in 3.5. Dunno about PF though.

>>52816374
They could be renamed by a booru-like program that manages images for you. I use one of those and it does that.

>>52816379
Yeah but what's with the filenames? Did you run them through a scrambler or something?
It's not like you've posted even one I don't have so I'm not that concerned.

>>52816390
Yeah I thought so.

>>52816384
Maybe she had mythic tiers?

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>>52816392
Yeah, okay.

>>52816396
Mythic tiers aren't really divine levels unless you go Hierophant and even then not really.
Maximumsleep needs to add in Mythic tiers and port over Divine levels so players can literally be god

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>>52816403
my pictures folder has somewhere in the realm of 80k images, the smug (anime girl) folder alone has 4k and there's a bunch of smugs in other folders. Try posting some rares.

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>>52816415
>my pictures folder has somewhere in the realm of 80k images

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>>52816415
Yeah, considering I hand captured most of these?

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>>52816428
I'm not posting any more smugs for you to capture until you post one I don't have.

>>52816382

This is true, Umbra is definitely THICC.

>>52816358

I'd say there's a lack of BIG male apps, considering there are monster races on the table.

All these THIGGGGGGG females need some BRIKK males to pair up with.

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>>52816435
In that case I'll just reuse old ones.

>>52816404
I honestly like both Kanna and the Cat-Loli's backstory a lot regardless, the divine aspects are neat

>>52816441
let's not start a fucking size arms race over thicc memes please, let people play what they want.

>>52816470

Well from a numbers perspective it's still competition for female spots, and there are lots of anime pretty boys, so if you like BRIKK males, you'd have a good chance.

>>52816470
THICKER
THICKER
THICKER

What are the most iconically evil apps in Overlewd, as in they LOOK evil even if they're not evil in character?

Gnoll, all the Undeads, and all the Succubi, probably? Does the Cube and Romulus / Lucius count?

>>52816511

The Warder Soulknife, Lucius is pretty evil looking. Sinh is a red dragon, so pretty iconic evil there.

>>52816507
don't make claims like that, you don't even know if that factors into the DM's thinking

>>52816511
The cube is dangerous, not evil-looking. Most of the time a Gelatinous Cube is just chugging along and you just happen to have the bad luck of standing in its way.

>>52816535
LET ME SNOOZE RUSE OOZE

Edward looks sad as fuck

>>52816522

I find beauty in balance anon, you can tell yourself that the DM will choose a part of 4 female ordanied zwei warders but I think that seems unlikely.

>>52816535
Depends on what you mean by 'iconic'. Tradtionally evil races? The demons, the undead, the gnoll, and thee two (three if you count the normie blue) chromatic dragons.

Who is using classic, iconic plot devices to make their character evil? Well, lots of them.

>>52816570
I meant more like "holy fuck it just LOOKS evil"
Lucius, Red Eyes Ultimate Dragon, Sinh, Demons, and the Wraith and Ghoul just look evil, peasants are going to start screaming for the Paladin on sight. The Ghost depends because iirc normal Ghosts and Spectres are unique in not being necessarily Evil.

>>52816470
>one male already upped their height because of this

kek, insecurities am i right

>>52816590
Reminder that he's STILL not the tallest app and that at least girl is starting as tall as he is (Konja) and will Grow Larger, while another (Ecaterina) is going to swell in size if Wraith goes to Dread Wraith
Manlets, when will they learn?