Pathfinder General /pfg/

>>52738319
An elven branch spear.
Because it's better.
:^)

>>52738342
I like the elven branched spear!

Can anyone give me some ideas/general advice on planning a heist session? Players will be trying to rescue a friendly NPC from some kind of stronghold, want to make sure they have a few different ways of accomplishing their mission.

>>52738319
I want to use unusual weapons, but everywhere I turn tells me that throwing weapons are shit

>>52738439
Startoss Style Warpriest. Arsenal Chaplain optional.

>>52738331
>tfw /pfg/ ends up running three or four Kingmaker campaigns, none of which are vanilla Kingmaker

>>52738433
Make sure you actually plan out the guard patrol and routine, it'll make things feel more alive and the PCs will probably try to find out. Also, add a secret passage that leads to the basement/dungeon or something, a path intended for the stronghold's ruler (or original ruler if it doesn't have one now) to use as an emergency escape route but which the PCs could use as an unguarded entrance if they can find out about it.

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>You will never kick off the industrial revolution as ambitious entrepreneurs in Andoran

>>52738488
Butler, give this anon a library!

>>52738469
W A T E R
B A L L O O N S

>Making a gestalt for a campaign
>Considering Synthesist Summoner \ Aegis

A bit of help \tg\, would those two even stack? From what I can gather, Fuse Eidolon removes armor bonuses, but Astral Suits aren't explicitly armor o.O

>>52738527
you would lose the benefit of Aegis BAB, because you use the Eidolon's BAB and physical stats by RAW.

>>52738488
Stay hopeful, Anna!

>>52738527
>not going summoner || aegis 6, soulknife 4 (with the two feats and one trait to get 10/10 progression on both sides)
>not forming your mount, armor, and arms out of nothing.

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>>52738544
>>52738507

But I neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed it!

>>52738575
Technically your mount isn't out of nothing. A Summoner's eidolan is an actual outsider with it's own history, personality, and intellect.

Would you rather a party of three martials plus a full caster or three full casters plus a martial?

>>52738614
three martials + full caster.

>>52738614
3Martial1Caster

>>52738539
Hmm. Thanks for that, I would have missed it entirely. Now to decide if it's a dealbreaker.

>>52738614
Two gishes, a caster and two mundanes or four gishes and one caster?

>>52738671
two gish + full caster + two mundane

>>52738671
The first.

Four different full casters or four different martials?

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How do I pic related in Pathfinder?

>>52738755

Fighting game characters have repertoires that are too broad to accurately replicate in PF. The closest you'll get is PoW though since it has "moves"

>>52738755
Be the GM and slap together a custom template for the BBEG

>>52738614
Three martials and a full caster, if gishes count as martials some number that isn't 0 or 3 should be gish martials.

>>52738729
I think that one's just personal taste, I would go for four different full casters. It'd either be glorious or end in a very early TPK.

A party that shares the same Law/Chaos alignment but differs on Good/Evil or a party that shares the same Good/Evil alignment but differs on Law/Chaos? I think a party full of LG, LN, and LE characters is most interesting.

What's a Gish?

>>52738957
I'd rather see an Evil Trio

>>52738969
Spellswords.

>>52738969
Originally a title for the Githyanki Mage-Knights, but was accepted into common vernacular to mean any class that specializes in a mix of magic and combat

>>52739113
Ah. Do like paladin Magus and the like?

>>52739148
Definitely magus. Paladin is more borderline but I would argue still qualifies much of the time.

>>52738671
>>52738614
>>52738957
>>52738729
All this makes me wonder, what are the secrets to good party composition?

>>52739148
Magi count, as do most of the 6th level caster classes. Paladins don't unless PrC'd with a more dedicated caster, due to not being a class with casting at all levels.

Gish is less of a "class" title, and more of a playstyle that is meant to show equal emphasis on both magical and martial capabilities.

For example, a mono-classed Paladin is not a Gish, while a Paladin/Sorcerer/Eldritch Knight is.

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In Spheres of Might, the troubadour is a class that has a handful of talents with names like "dandere," "deredere," "himedere," "kuudere," "moe," "tsundere," and "yandere."

Adam Meyers, the writer of the class, has posted a second statement in defense of this:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1guWyA71djzV6wzido7yPXbxzPKRbkG0cU-on0zocua4/edit

>Funnily enough no, it wasn't TVtropes that was used, I googled 'Japanese character tropes' so I could make sure to reach beyond my French New Comedy upbringing, and grabbed the first article from Kotaku that popped up.

>I understand that anime is an aesthetic that some people don't want in their fantasy while other people do, but from my perspective I felt it would be dishonest to only look at the West. Pathfinder has evolved well beyond the Tolkien/Conan roots from which it sprung, referencing dozens of mythologies and sub-genres, and to stay Euro-centric felt wrong when creating a class build upon the concept of genres and tropes.

>Plus, as far as the lover trope is concerned and the coming up with iconic powers and personality types for it, there simply isn't the level of scholarship about it in the West as there is in the East. In the East you have all sorts of categorized terms that can be drawn on and used as a reference when describing the characteristics of a character, while in the West we often have a hard time getting beyond simple discussions about Princesses, whether or not 'damsel in distress' is sexist, and complaining about Trinity-Syndrome.

Is this reasoning solid? It seems strange to me that categorizing anime girls into "dandere," "deredere," "himedere," "kuudere," "moe," "tsundere," and "yandere" is considered a form of "scholarship."

>>52739178
Why are you reposting this over and over

>>52738374

this review pretty much made me realize that salacias more of a npc than a pc

so i'll probably withdraw her

>>52739183

Is this your first exposure to 2hu?

>>52739178
>nd grabbed the first article from Kotaku that popped up.
pffffffffffhahahahahahahahaha!
But yeah, he should've picked better names that don't already have a more defined pre-existing connotation

Also, stop spamming this you autistic 2hu. You are a fucking loser with no life

VIRGIN KNIGHT STOCK CRASHING SELL SELL SELL

MONSTERGIRLS UP BUY BUY BUY

>>52739235
>le bubble market

>>52739212

Don't be dramatic anon just touch up the app.

>>52739212
But she's sexy.

>>52739178
>classes with built in weeb flavor
PoW made the mistake with the Bushi and calling Mithral Current's quick draw "Iaijitsu." Time is a flat circle. Every 3pp mistake will be made again and again and again.

>In the East you have all sorts of categorized terms that can be drawn on
Terms with direct translations and in some cases like kuudere WESTERN LOAN WORDS. You and Adam Meyers both need to eat a shotgun barrel.

>>52739250
She's kinda bland.

>>52739244
its more like

th' bitch walks around in a straitjacket and nothing else which is a red flag

she dies to a single str drain

she's useless with one sunder

she doesn't have any relevant skills and is gonna be pretty much a mediocre martial until 4 where she becomes somewhat passable

>>52739284
This, kids, is why you don't build characters only off of art you like. It's too easy to build your way into a corner.

>>52739284
>she dies to a single str drain
How common is Str Drain at lvl 1 though?

>she's useless with one sunder
Pretty sure Sunder can only be used to destroy weapons and armour. Not clothing.

>she doesn't have any relevant skills
Gee, I guess this is why skill monkey is an important role to have filled out? Cause by your logic, any class that doesn't get 8+Int Mod skill points shouldn't exist.

Le fucking kill yourself faggot canadian cuck anime shitposter.

>>52739250
Just PM her player on Roll20 for lewds then. According to >>52739284, the player apparently thinks she's a useless villain, only good for her sex appeal.

>>52739345
>leafs are anime shitposters
>/spa/ confirmed /a/ has a large number of leafs
Day of the rake when?

>>52739345
str drains are going to be a problem throughout the game and not just level one, because what sort of party is just gonna hand the belt of str to the gal with no arms?

sunder can be used on any item

the skills was just to show that she didn't really have anything to real redemption for her to be lackluster in combat given that she's an immediate detractor in public with her appearance and has 7 cha

>>52738755
Summoner, probably.

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>>52739408
>sub-optimal bullying

>>52739408
>tfw so many builds that don't come online until later

>>52739408
>str drains are going to be a problem throughout the game
Cool Maximum Sleep. Thanks for letting everyone that you're going to spam Str Drains.

>sunder can be used on any item
And how often do you see GMs using combat maneuvers? In all the years I've played DnD and PF, I can count the number of times any of the myriad of GMs I've played under used anything other than full attack, casting a spell, or using a PoW maneuver on one hand.

>that she's an immediate detractor in public with her appearance and has 7 cha
You picked the Undine race. She was going to be a detractor in public no matter what. It's called hardships and it builds character. But lord forbid you actually have to roleplay as a character at a disadvantage in any possible situation. Oh lordy no, not having the optimal build for every single encounter is such a fucking drag the only solace is not even trying.

Delete yourself. You're wasting the oxygen I breathe.

>>52739502
Why is this game a level 1 start?

>>52739502
Define "online". Is this a thing that only happens with gimmick builds?

>>52739519
fuck if I know

>DM starts up a 24/7 IC channel, and expects you to regularly post in it

But why? I like playing with people and I love our sessions, but doesn't this just seem... Stressful? I didn't sign up for what is effectively a session all day, every day.

>>52739558
some people like keeping in touch

>>52739558
Pretty sure it's for in-character hook ups.

"Hey Elf slut, wanna ride the dwarf rocket?"
"Mmm, I love thick hairy man meat!"

etc, etc.

>>52739558
When I run games on Roll20 I always make some threads for PCs to do RP between sessions, but then nobody ever does anything despite everybody saying they want to.

Suffering. How am I suppose to make a game with 4 hour sessions actually get stuff done and feel alive if the PCs won't RP their downtime and stuff sometimes.?

>>52739592

Which means my character's going to be way out of the loop come next session and the half-elf's fucking the human, the Tiefling's bought a shop and I'm sitting here in Westcrown, feeling like the odd duck out.

>>52739577

That's what an OOC is for, though. Or Skype, or hell I don't know, PM a player if you want to do something with theirs.

It's a style of roleplay that is pulling me away from doing anything but keeping up, and if I let it slip away I get relegated to "that guy who's two steps behind everyone else."

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>>52738319
>all-Druid party

How would you differentiate them from each other, /pfg/?

>>52739718
>all x party

I would force several players to reroll because a party of all the same thing is boring

>>52739718
Paint numbers on each other? A la Thing 1 and Thing 2?

>>52739718
NG LN NE CN

>>52739718
A R C H E T Y P E S

>>52739656

Posting a message on Roll20 is a completely different beast than posting something on Discord, I've found. I blame it on how most of us grew up on named forums that demanded you sit down and think about your posts before hitting Submit, while Messengers were more lax and carefree.

And you make a game with 4 hour sessions actually get stuff done and feel alive by setting aside an hour or even an entire session for just downtime. It's something I've been in with Voiced and it works.

>>52739733
I dunno, there are some classes that I think could manage it. All Inquisitor party, all Bard party, all Cleric party, all Warpriest party, they have enough variation to allow you to have 3 or 4 characters and not step on any toes or have massive holes in party comp. Also, all human parties are perfect. If you disagree, you're just an elf lover.

>>52739515
Imagine being this mad over someone else's character.

>>52739733
But it does make sense for them to be together if they're all in the same organization. Like an all-Fighter party from the same mercenary corps, or all-Barbarian from the same tribe, even all-Bard from the same troupe/band or all-Wizard from the same academy.

>>52739747
You're not wrong.

>>52739789
He must have really wanted to fuck her

Is there a better class/archetype for switch hitting with melee/throwing spears over the Marksman archetype Spearman?

>>52739666
>>52739656
>>52739592
>>52739577
>>52739558
I'm doing this now and I'm kind of loving it. It's great after all your other games went on hiatus to have a quasi-perpetual session going, but I could see where it might be stressful if you had multiple games

>>52739798
yeah but its dumb

>>52739798
But that's still wrong. In one mercenary company I'd expect to see fighters, rangers, slayers, rogues, barbarians, etc. A tribe would be varied among skalds, barbarians, maybe even sorcerers or oracles. Just because they're from one cultural and geographical location doesn't mean that they're the same person.

>>52739875
THANK YOU, EXACTLY

>>52739813
Didn't we all, anon?

Didn't we all?

Hold me.

>>52739875
Technically I have to accept that.

>>52739838
>switch hitting
Why is this still a thing?

>>52739515
Deathless Ghost can do 1d4 drain on a stat of their choice at level 5 :)

>>52739888
No, she was just another damaged girl

I need my waifus to be weirder.

>>52739888
I would, but I have no arms.

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Alright /pfg/, tell me about your cool Boss Encounters you either fought in or designed for your players. Granted, we all know how poor of an idea building "bosses" is in Pathfinder, but share them anyway

Since we got greentext of LoB&F can we now definitively say that DHB is a boring player?

>>52739212
For what it's worth, I thought your character was cute and had an interesting build going.

You just need to grow out of the gimmick and make her more well-rounded.

>>52739943
why do you care?

>>52739935
Some names of boss builds I've done.

>Big Eater
>Rocktopus
>How We Fall
>Eye of the Storm
>Side Winder
>Winter Mint
>Springtime Tiger
>Water Boy
>The Oid Boys

>>52739943
What happened?

>>52739943
Nope. His character was fun and had good interactions with the other PCs.

DHB's main fault is being way too reliable and easy to depend on. I'm worried I'll never be able to offload bookkeeping this way again.

>>52739935
I like souls-esque 1vs1 duels.

>>52739855

The thing is it runs completely antithetical to how I perceive tabletop and how I approach it.

To me, tabletop is about telling a story with friends, getting together every Monday night or Saturday evening to spend a couple hours punching out a tale over text or voice. It gives me something to look forward to, a thing on the calendar that lets me partition my days for other things. It's like watching a movie you're playing a part in, or sitting around writing a book.

But perpetual IC just turns that whole view on its head. I can't turn the movie off anymore, I can't stop the pages of the book. I need to keep up with it as often as I can or I'll miss something, or worse yet I hold everyone up because my character's getting dragged along or she needs to do the thing to solve the problem.

It makes what was a fun way to spend a Friday into a side-job, always playing catch-up or struggling to make sure your character talks enough so that, come the *actual* session, people even remember she exists.

>>52739935
Actually bosses can be really good if you design them as like.. MMO raid bosses.

>>52739929
Then hold my hips with your legs and don't let go until we both fall asleep.

Quick question about the Bladed Brush Feat

>You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a glaive sized for you, even though it isn’t a light weapon. When wielding a glaive, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon and as if you were not making attacks with your off-hand for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s or swashbuckler’s precise strike).

Can you duel wield glaives with this feat? It says you can treat a glaive as a one-handed piercing or slashing weapon. So if you were using two glaives, it would be like wielding two one-handed light weapons, right?

>>52738319
Pepperbox Rifle, since I wanted to be Mami and throwing away muskets would be too expensive.

>>52738614
Two and two, like Arneson intended. Or one mostly attack guy, one 75% attack 25% spell guy, one 50/50 attack/spell guy, and one mostly spell guy.

If I have to play with your stupid bullshit dichotomy: 3 caster 1 martial, and the martial has UMD.

>>52740018
>people even remember she exists
I'd remember you exist, anon.

>>52740015
>DHB's main fault is being way too reliable and easy to depend on. I'm worried I'll never be able to offload bookkeeping this way again.
???

>>52740032
no, you treat them as being one handed piercing or slashing weapons for the purposes of feats and class features that require such a weapon, but you are still required to use both hands to wield one.

>>52739993
>>Eye of the Storm
>>Side Winder
Color me curious about these 2

>>52740017
While I love a good Soulsborne boss, I feel like you generally need more going on to give the other party members something to do.

>>52740022
Never played an MMO. Would putting in Adds into a fight be close to that? I've been trying to think of a boss fight for a campaign I'll probably never run, and I've toyd with the idea of allowing the boss to summon short-lived Laser Roses and Petal Swarms

>>52739519
Because it's throwing in all /pfg/ accepted 3pp and gestalt. Also, the GM probably doesn't know the game for shit.

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>>52739907
>want to do an empty quiver style Fighter of some sort
>know it would be shit, even if it could be done
>also know that my GM would likely let me use my dex mod for the melee attacks with the bow

I know switch-hitting is shit, but running around all QUALITY and slapping bitches who get too close just sounds too fun.

>>52740083
Adds would definately be part of that, especially if they're relatively untheatening but carry conditions like entangled.

>>52739888
Not especially. She needed bigger tits and ass.

>>52740083
Eye of the storm was build under the concept of using Control Weather to cause a hurricane and being the only character who can see inside of/not be blown away by the hurricane.

>Side Winder
Hyper long range vigilante sniper build created so that the enemy is firing brilliant energy arrows while inside of a boulder using Earth Glide.

>>52739907
>>52740091
What's wrong with switch hitting? I keep seeing posts saying it's shit these days but no one ever explains the issues with it. You can still hit bench mark numbers and if one style is two-hander then you have plenty of feats.

>>52740053

That's sweet, but it still doesn't mean my character won't be remembered as "that girl who doesn't have the +16 hours of weekly development we do."

>>52740022
>tfw want to do bosses like FFXIV raid bosses.
>different attack phases at different HP%s
>drop pools of "don't stand in this shit"
>add phases
>positioning being important
>aoe patterns
>tfw none of this works well with Pathfinder
i cri

>>52740059
DHB is super autistic about inventories and gold counts. He keeps track of them for the entire party because he doesn't mind the extra work and it keeps things flowing.

>>52740136
Because you'll just be worse at someone who specialized in one or the other because how the specialization works is making it so you can apply your specialization to broader situations.

>>52740155
All of that works in Pathfinder actually, you just have to be created and remember as the GM, the rules are made to be broken.

>>52740083
>Never played an MMO.
As much as I'd hate to post WoW...

Watch these two videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX6wq-Zi-gs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIpQ432gQMg

Maybe it'd give you inspiration?

>>52740168
How the fuck do aoe patterns work then? How can I make it so that players now that where they were standing at the end of that turn will make a puddle of fire, so they need to move asap?

>>52740166
Literally all you need to be good at melee is power attack though.

>>52740166
You should be able to get two fighter weapon groups at full strength tbqh

>>52740162
Like what does he do?

>>52740193
Draw it on the map. In bright fucking red. Mention the rumbling of the ground.

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Post your ideal overlewd party that has minimum special snowflakeyness

>>52740091
You could gun-kata with the Snap Shot line, desu.

Only take Empty Quiver Style and either Snap Shot (for point blanking people) or Stabbing Shot (for moving enemies around)

>>52740193
>the enemy spreads it's quills and fires a large volley of [STUFF] high into the air
>you see shadows of [STUFF] in this area
>the air in this area begins to shimmer with heat...
>the ground in this area being to rumble...
Etc, etc.

>>52740195
Not if you're TWF or are dex based.

If you're ranged you're likely at least partially dex based.

>>52740224
You want decent Dex as a melee character regardless.

>>52740195
It's a matter of opportunity costs. The guy with 16 str, 18 dex, power attack, and the ranged feats isn't going to be as good at melee as a guy with 20 str, power attack, furious focus and other stuff, or as good as an archer that didn't need to drop the feat on power attack, since archery is fairly feat intensive. Diversity of options is good, but this is a team thing. You have team mates that can specialize. Division of labor is what most societies are founded on.

>>52740166
>apply your specialization to broader situations
You're right, but if switch-hitting is conversation at all, then the game probably discludes high power 3pp like PoW, and we're probably talking about martials who aren't realistically going to be able to force their greatsword into every situation.

It really seems like the argument against switch-hitting is predicated on theoretical high level play, when that's not going to be relevant for really, a single session out of your common campaign.

>>52738319

Last time I played using an unusual weapon would probably be back when I played 3.5, I joined a game for a couple of sessions as a whip-wielding Bard, since I'd never played a Bard before.

Was fun, but I was stupid after getting captured, and wound up getting killed.

>>52740220
Too early, nearly everyone seems to still be editing their apps and there's probably plenty more on the way

>>52740230
But if you're a TWF switch hitter as a Archer you're looking at the following feats:
>Point Blank Shot
>Deadly Aim
>Precise Shot
>Weapon Finesse
>Two Weapon Fighting
>Piranha Strike

Even as a human fighter you're waiting till level 4 to be base competency.

>>52740270
Who the fuck would switch hit as a TWF build though. I was thinking 2-hander that speccs into archery when I think switch hitter.
>>52740238
Most parties aren't that full up on martials to the point where the fighty guy decides to be good at ranged stuff steps on peoples toes.

Let's do parties for Overlewd!

What's the ideal serious party?

What's the ideal lewd party?

>>52740305

Please, can we talk about something else?

>>52740166
This is only if you take two styles that are incredibly feat intensive without any sort of mitigation.

The sword/bow switch hitter concept is piss easy to hit if you don't fall for the Dexterity Jew. You need a decent strength anyway for composite bow damage and want at least a 13 to qualify for Power Attack. Grab a decent two hander, take Power Attack/Furious Focus, and you're done. Or hell, take Weapon Finesse with something decent you can two-hand and have the exact same hit and damage bonuses you would with a bow, minus one for PBS.

>>52740290
Most "switch hitters" are archers that occasionally wade into melee, at least when looking at the two investment. For an archer, it's a feat and going from 14 str to something a bit higher. But look at the gap of a dedicated melee and a "switch hitter melee", basically all feats outside of power attack, a likely loss of str, or at least other stats to afford the high dex. And when things like point blank master exist, the need to have a separate melee weapon diminishes greatly, since you can just arrow dudes face to face.

>>52740327
You first. Be the change you want to see anon.

>>52740305
I say wait until the reviewanon comes back

>>52740354
I've played 18 Str 16 Dex switch hitters that worked out fine and dandy. Slayers are great for it. Melee people's faces off when you can get close and turn them into pincushion when they have the high ground/take to the air/abuse terrain.

>>52740366
This guy knows what's up. Let's shitpost about Blingmaker instead.

>>52740305
Ask again in 10 days or so when things are more fleshed out and everybody interested has submitted

>>52740354
>>52740387
You know when switch-hitters would be at their best? In a feat-tax enabled world where dex-to-damage is rare

>>52740387
Look, I've played one too. I found it almost always easier to just spend the move actions to get closer than to use your bow for the first round of combat and then need to draw a weapon because the enemies have gotten into melee.

>>52740305
How about parties for WWW, since that closes tomorrow

Fuck Overlewd, I'm tired of hearing about it already.

>playing switch hitting Hobgoblin Fighter
>16 Str, 18 Dex, 16 Con
PERFECT PHYSICAL SPECIMEN

>>52740388

Blingmaker is closing pretty soon, any predictions? Hopes? Dreams?

Sorry to bring all this switch hitting stuff up, but I had a player ask about it.

Why would a player have to put points into Dex besides the 13 for some feats? You can get the belt of mighty hurling and have Str for everything.

>>52740290
>Who the fuck would switch hit as a TWF build though
Slayer might actually be able to pull it off on 20pb. Though I'd still recommend 2hander since it's easier on the DEX.

I don't know why people always think about Fighters for Switch Hitting, Slayer and Ranger can pick up what they need at just 13 DEX.

Switch hitting is not optimal, yes. A switch hitter won't get the same milage as the melee spec'd character or the range spec'd character, but the point is that it CAN do both, and has the option to.

Also, isn't it a bit ridiculous that a caster can just pay for more spells, and therefore a bigger toolbelt, but no one thinks that maybe the fighter pays for some training to pick up extra combat feats? Just saying that higher BAB classes can get more training could handle some of these tax feat issues.

>>52740424

GENETIC FREAK

>>52740411
Even then, with the standard tax rules /pfg/ uses that give power attack and weapon finesse for free, an archer dropping a feat on deadly agility and carrying a rapier isn't a bad idea.

>>52740428
I hope me and a friend get in, but that's all I'm going to say about that.

>dexterity is important for initiative ac and reflex
>od warder gets wis instead of dex to reflex and init
>stalker gets wis to reflex and init
>brutal slayer gets half str instead of str to AC and reflex
dexfags btfo

>>52739178
>grabbed the first article from Kotaku that popped up.
>Using Kotaku as a scholarly source
Christ, that might be even worse than using TVTropes.

>>52740437
13 dex means you ain't hitting shit.

>>52740459
You gonna leak that friend's logs too, Rory?

>>52740463
So two specific builds BTFO of dexfags

really activates my almonds.

>>52739178
>>I understand that anime is an aesthetic that some people don't want in their fantasy while other people do, but from my perspective I felt it would be dishonest to only look at the West. Pathfinder has evolved well beyond the Tolkien/Conan roots from which it sprung, referencing dozens of mythologies and sub-genres, and to stay Euro-centric felt wrong when creating a class build upon the concept of genres and tropes.
>>Plus, as far as the lover trope is concerned and the coming up with iconic powers and personality types for it, there simply isn't the level of scholarship about it in the West as there is in the East. In the East you have all sorts of categorized terms that can be drawn on and used as a reference when describing the characteristics of a character, while in the West we often have a hard time getting beyond simple discussions about Princesses, whether or not 'damsel in distress' is sexist, and complaining about Trinity-Syndrome.
There's a fucking difference between actual Japanese fiction tropes and archetypes and otaku subculture terms used to differentiate between slightly different shades of waifu.

>>52740455
>say they would be at their bast with feat taxes and dex-to-damage being rare
>"dude deadly agility lmao"

I mean, I get where you're coming from, but c'mon dude

>>52740482
>two specific builds
multiclass

>>52740502
You mentioned switchhitting, not qualityfagging. Don't be a bitch.

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Think of your most magically oriented character. The one most dependent on inherent(as in via Class Features/not items) magical abilities.

Now Give them a new class/build as if they had no magical talent whatsover. No supernatural abilities granted via class features whatsoever. You can change everything but their race and base stats

What's their new class? How radically different is their life?

Any news from Penis Loving Damsels? Any sexy new Logs?

>>52740479
>implying I'm Rory
>implying there'd even be logs to leak
Just want to have adventures and build a kingdom.

>>52740516
>ranged combat defaults to LONGBOWS
>a fighting style which requires at least some semblance of QUALITY

c'mon, step it up

>>52740553
The "typical" longbow stat spread is something like 14 str, 18 dex. So a two-hander would be 3 damage from stat, and a rapier would be 4.

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Sup my dudes, I'm in the mood for making a homebrew race, and have some ideas I've been playing around with.

Which do you think I should start the work on first?
>Bug people that can be altered with traits to be different kinds of bugs
>A race of aquatic silicon based skeleton-jelly people
>Fungoid entities of mycillial mass folded into a humanoid shape by ancient magics
>Not a new race, but expanded option for variant Ratfolk subspecies
>Race of living weapons that animate nearby objects and clothing to create bodies
>Race of Mecha-Organic life forms with modular chassis
>Any other option you think is cool and would like to suggest instead

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>>52740595
>>Bug people that can be altered with traits to be different kinds of bugs
This is the only option here that isn't incredibly gay.

>>52740595
Sounds super gay. Like, Big Gay Al tier gay.

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>>52740018
See, I think about my games every single day. I'm always thinking of backstory events, the different branches of future story, feats and mechanical choices, everything. It's not something my mind seals away for a special day. It bleeds everywhere, filling up the spaces between other thoughts if I let it. I probably have brain problems.

The ability to act on this on "off-days" is really nice. Let's me keep stuff fresh if I think of it on a Tuesday!

>>52740587
Assuming we're going by the original statement, anon, the assumption is that Deadly Agility IS NOT IN FACT something you can slap a feat into right off the bat. IE: The fuck are you on about.

>>52740595
>Bug people that can be altered with traits to be different kinds of bugs

you mean entobians

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>>52740671
>you mean entobians
Explain what this thing is to me

>>52740455
Or just grabbing a damn cutlass/scimitar and two handing, in a world without easy dex to damage.

Read, nigga.

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>>52740671
>Small sized
REEEEEEEEEEE

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>>52740637
>>52740613
>people complain about how boring normal "humans with X glued on" races are
>someone suggests somehing thats not that
>"geeze anon, you is teh homosex"

>>52740103
I agree. Bodacious babes are the best

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>>52740722
You can do something that isn't human with "x" glued on without going way out of left field with "sentient fungoid" or "silicon based life" sort of stuff.

>>52740472
As of Monster Hunter handbook, a Slayer at say, level 10 for Manyshots and let's say 14 DEX for practical purposes will have:
>10 BAB + 2 Mod + 4 Studied Target + 2 Enhancement
You're taking a total penalty of 5 for Rapid Shot and Deadly Aim. At this absolute minimum investment, you're hitting the floor on benchmark numbers with your secondary combat style. After picking up Power Attack, Furious Focus, Focused Target and Weapon Focus (Greatsword), Deadly Aim and Quickdraw you'll still have at least one extra feat from Slayer talents.

Not too bad I think for an opening volley or the option you take against things you can't swing your greatsword or falchion at. Especially good on your opening round if you can full attack against any flatfooted. We can bring your numbers higher pretty easily too.

>>52740536
Rory never applied to Blingmaker though

>>52740722
You have failed to make races more unique than a rubber forehead alien, and you're crying about rubber forehead aliens.

The reason people make rubber forehead aliens is because having a humanoid base to start from allows greater understanding from the reader's side, more freedom to be creative from the writer's side and versimilitude from both sides

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Alright.

For my Overlewd app.

Big anime tiddies

or

Delicious flat chest

http://www.strawpoll.me/12762515

>>52740692
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/3rd-party-races/alluria-publishing/entobian/

>>52740826
Play a self buffing class that starts flat and gains huge tits when full buffed.

I suggest something with Mutagen.

>>52740852
Cognatogen anon. You need that big fat charisma.

>>52740533

Sigmund filled Gloriana up with his boom-boom batter while Lysander and Cashmere watched.

>>52739760
Yeah, I first did RPing on forums, so it always felt more natural to me than IRCs. Actually, IRCs are still hard for me to handle if there are more than just a few people in it most of the time, since I've got a compulsion to read all the posts I missed.

Anyway, setting aside a whole fourth of every session for downtime RP sounds like an awful lot. My only big problem with playing games online is that combat takes FOREVER.

>>52740876
But punchgirl boobs of steel tho

>>52740428
I hope I get in!

I need an initiating bloodrager.

>>52740939

Breasts shouldn't be hard, they should be soft and warm.

>>52740949
I already know I'm not. So no reason for me to worry about it.

>>52740970
The abs are hard. The boobs are soft.

How many flat characters are in PFG games?

>>52740989
Well, we've got a lot of dudes and at least two lolis, so a fair number

>>52740989

Aranha, Tia and Aster, Quinn, Cashmere and basically everyone in Hell's Rebels.

>>52740327
How about WWW predictions? Since I've got some!

1. Rich Horner - All the Minos apps for WWW were pretty decent, but I think Rich did the best job of integrating the setting's lore into their app and actually addressing the issue of slavery. Though, there's nothing about the gunshot wound and robbery that kicks off the plot; that may disqualify them all together, which'd be a shame. In terms of personality, he's a stubborn and brash, but also sensitive and earnest; good glue to hold the party together. Can't really comment on mechanics since there's no sheet (another thing that may screw them over), but Urban Skald is hella flexible.
2. Malta - Skinwalkers have been a part of western lore forever, but they haven't been represented in much in media, so I'm happy to see a few people took up the challenge and made one for this campaign. Personality-wise, she's the token evil teammate, on a mission to save an entire race, but wholly uninterested in the end result. Definitely a necessary factor to balance out the party members that might care a little too much. Mechanically, a flexible frontliner, with a bit of utility from shape shifting is exactly what the group needs. She's also got a major plot hook for the GM to play with.
3. Jenny Blye - A bit of a wildcard pick, but I'd be interested in seeing it play out. The writing does a decent job of revealing the character's personality, the lore snippets presented are fascinating (am I the only one who would watch the hell out of a movie about civl-war era soldiers vs. demon?), and her past as a rebel soldier should make for some interesting friction with Rich. Though, I could be projecting, and the player might just play her as another angsty, gritty loner, which would suck. Mechanically, she's pure DPS, which is something the party is sorely lacking.

>>52740989
Gamze in LoB&F.

Essa almost was but she's a 30I.

>>52740989
Hmm, Rinka and Aurora in Dragons 2

>>52740530
>Thomas Harrigan
>16,14,14,10,14,10
>Now he's a Sword and Board Fighter. No equipment change beyond getting some heavier armor.

Love clerics.

>>52741019
4. Mary Sherwood - I'll be the first to tell you that I don't really like this archetype, I think the "too naive and sweet for her own good" character is played out, and is usually just an excuse to make waifu bait. BUT, even I have to admit that Mary's backstory is intriguing as hell. The idea of a human/haemonculi hybrid should give the GM plenty of fascinating plot hooks, and opportunities to dig into the lore surrounding the race. Personality-wise, she seems a bit passive, though the posh suburbanite on a wilderness adventure *is* a time-honored story telling trope... Mechanically, she's a Paizo fullcaster; the player may have to take some steps to nerf themselves to keep from over-shining the party.
Last, and probably least...
(At least in terms of stature)
5. Amias - His quest to aid the Minos both makes him a natural ally for Rich and enemy of Jenny, but also has the potential the hook Mary into the conflict, due to her unique insights into the nature of life (and possibly how it might be extended). Mechanically, this party is light on knowledges and has no trapfinding, making the Investigator invaluable; the massive aid another buffs is just icing on the cake.

Honorable Mentions (and the character they would have displaced):

2. Pahana - Excellent concept, unfortunately that's all it was. By the end of it I didn't really know anything about who this character is, or what drives them forward.
3. Jericho - Another idea I really liked, but the backstory just didn't give me much to work with. I'd focus on expanding his personality a bit and making him feel weirder/less generic angsty gun guy.

Final Breakdown:
3 girls, 2 guys.
1 Minos, 1 Skinwalker, 1 Human, 1 Human(?), 1 Halfling.
2 Good, 2 Neutral, 1 Evil.
1 Int based, 2 Cha based, 2 Wis based.

>>52741019

I love everything about Jenny, she's been made by a player that clearly understands what a Wild West setting should be about.

>>52740429
Belts of Mighty Hurling are expensive as heck and thrown weapons are generally pretty mediocre compared to a longbow, especially a composite longbow.

>>52741038

Which girls do you see trying to hook up with the Minos?

>>52741080
None.

Rich X Amias is the purest form of love.

>>52740305
Any party of one female and everybody else being male, obviously.

>>52740388
I didn't apply to Blingmaker but if I had, I would want to make a kingdom that develops lots of advanced magic and architecture to make Brevoy look like shit!

>>52740428
I predict there will be a lot of salty swordlord wannabes that didn't get in. I wonder how much salt there will be if the party has no swordlord characters?

>>52740969
Gotchu fampai
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vtE5ykBrFbVEia47iXl8Y2SaPzVjFGzGoHrPL0P4KlY/edit?usp=sharing

>>52741038
>>52741019

Oh my god I love it! You actually went through and took backstory, tone and classes into mind, and that just makes me feel like this actually sounds like a good party!

Could you do Blingmaker, if you've got some thoughts on it? Game's closing this week!

>>52741026
Gamze is not flat. She just layers her clothing to conceal her assets, like a proper and modest woman.

>>52741136
>Initiating archetypes for casters all have spell triggers, but no, bloodrager can't have them
Why can't anything be good?

>>52741209
bloodrager spells are mostly a joke and you likely want to have UMD anyway, so at least you're not missing TOO much I guess?

>>52741206
Well big are they then, probably smaller than Essa's massive tits.

>>52741140
I did Blingmaker on Friday, my picks are here:

>>52713084
>>52713096

>>52740595
Fungoid or biomechanical race, easy.

>>52740804
Didn't he? I thought Harriet and Bling were Rory's. Is LiterallyWho not Rory?

>>52741129
>No Swordlords in Blingmaker

The Swordlords are boring anyway, unless they're Mivoni and I don't think anybody app'd a Mivoni Swordlord. So the only salt would be from the Swordlord players.

Also, I predict Andrik, because he's amazing, and Branwen because she's also awesome and Andrik would be the perfect good influence for her.

>>52740923
Is she pregnet?

>>52741301
He did not. He's applied to Overlewd with a gnoll shaman girl, WWW with a grumpy cat with a shotgun/guitar (and withdrawed after not being able to make the time), and BitF with a joke edgelord app.

>>52741311

No, Bonbon checked.

>>52741019
Interesting picks.

>>52741026
>>52741206
>>52741253
Gamze binds. You heard it here first.

>>52741010
Cashmere is not flat! Just because she has to hang around with that Skaldish slattern Gloriana doesn't mean she isn't a proper woman too!

>>52741029
>>52741010
DELICIOUS
FLAT
CHEST

>>52740533
No, PLD has been a relatively normal game with normal campaign things going on

>>52741010
>And basically everyone in Hell's Rebels
Isn't there a wolfgirl on Team B? And Alexa Jones? And Scarlet?

>>52741269
>Reviewanon picked my app

But which characters will hook up or find true love, the greatest treasure of all!

>>52741458
That's news! Any fun encounters or amusing conversations? Has anyone fucked yet?

>>52741390

Itty bitty titties might as well be flat! Cashmere's gotta fluff hers up all in finery when Gloriana could make a strip of cloth look like silk!

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>get a sending while on the road
>it can be summed up as "can you hurry back, I think I fucked it"

>>52741484
>Cashmere and Gloriana get off the ship with the dead captain
>Follow rumors to a very seedy tavern called the Inn Between
>The grizzly Sigmund is also coincidentally here, drinking and flirting
>Gloriana has absolutely zero subtlety after being told to keep a low profile
>Cashmere and Gloriana get hit on by a local noble, boasting about his family's improved mines and clearly wanting to get in their pants
>Meanwhile, a redhead waitress offers Sigmund a 'reward' if he breaks up a fight in the bar
>He's stuck in unarmed combat with two thugs, until it gets broken up by the huge half troll matron arriving
>The thugs were related to the noble, and they're all sent off. The noble asks Cashmere and Gloriana to follow but Cashmere gives him a cold rejection.
>Overhearing that Sigmund is a Nightwalker, they invite him back to their table, and Cashmere offers healing
>Gloriana says Cashmere's healing made her sick last time, Cashmere huffs and says that's normal because of the miasma and all magic healing has that disadvantage--
>Gloriana heals Sigmund, corruption-free. Cashmere is rekt.
>The waitress also notices and pulls Gloriana upstairs to beg her to heal the madness from her father, since Gloriana has the gift to cure corruption
>Gloriana turns on the charm and and comforts waitress with a pure hug
>Meanwhile, Cashmere and Sigmund are alone at the table. She awkwardly tries to probe into his background and character(edited)
>It develops into an tense verbal standoff of city girl vs country bumpkin, quips being traded like fire, and somewhere along the way Sigmund signs himself onto the party to prove his point
>Just at the peak of the tension, Gloriana arrives to interrupt and defuse the hostility!
>Sigmund probably won though
>The party agrees to visit the Martel Mines to heal the waitress' father...

>>52741484

If my memory of the greentext serves, nobody's fucked yet and Cashmere had a fun argument with Sigmund.

>>52741519
F-fucked what?

>>52741521
>They make their way to the mines, Sigmund is uncomfortable because they dressed him up in smart clothes and combed his hair
>Gloriana cure the waitress' crazed father and donates 5 gold to them to have a good life
>But footsteps approach from outside - it's Lysander!
>He tells them of trolls in the mines, which spurs the party - especially Gloriana - into action
>Outside, they see a strange creature in the distance, howling to the moon and a cross between minotaur, displacer beast and manticore.
>They try and avoid conflict, heading to the mine, and are about to argue with the guard when they're shot down by crystal spikes from the beast 150ft away
>The group tries to engage, but next volley instantly downs Lysander and wounds Gloriana, so the party decides to bail for the mines as Sigmund covers them
>In the mine, they heal up and decide to go deeper, since come tomorrow the Martel guards will lock down the mine, this may be their only chance to investigate
>This happens
>>52693598
>Eventually they find the trolls, though!
>Behind them is a shivering naked clown
>Cashmere is only saved from becoming mincemeat by two trolls rolling nat 3s
>Lysander punches a hole in one of them with lightning
>Cashmere pulls her dress up and rubs Sigmund's rifle on her thighhighs to enchant it with Bane
>With their powers combined, they shoot down the last troll and scare the third off
>They rush to Bonbon for post-LOGS healing...

>>52741532

Ever get a message while driving from a buddy going "oh man oh god oh man, I fucked it all up?"

Seems like that.

>>52741502
What are her body proportions and endowments based on the /tg/ formulae if her ability scores are as follows?

>STR: 7
>DEX: 14
>CON: 12
>INT: 20
>WIS: 10
>CHA: 14

>>52741579

Small, perky tits and a very cute - albeit flat and almost childish - butt.

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>>52738319
Never played a character with an unusual weapon, but I've always wanted to play someone with a Chain-Spear

>>52741543
>Party busts into the troll room to kick some ass
>They proceed to kick Troll ass after putting Bane on Sigmund's rifle
>Last troll flees deeper into the mine
>Cashmere and Lysander tend to Bon-bon
>Sigmund and Gloriana descend below the Miasma Line to hunt
>Kill the last troll while tit deep in the miasma
>Find Rom Martel, second son of the Martel family
>He got tossed down here by Mysterious Voice
>Rom had no idea what happened to Bon-bon after he tried to fug her
>Lysander starts projecting the blame onto Rom
>Fight's about to break out in the mines over blame while the manticore-beast roams and feasts on the townsfolk

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>>52741600
>wanting to play Kyoko
NO! You'll suffer! DON'T!

>>52741549
Let's get details, Anon! I love hearing about fuckups!

Assuming Gestalt, would a Bancho best be described as a Steelfist Commando || Fighter, or a Steelfist Commando || Bard?

>>52741625
Well, none of my group members have ever seen Madoka to my knowledge, so I think I'll be fine.

Plus Hornet gets a good ending, so it can't all be suffering

>>52741648
Banchos don't sing

>>52741620
>Fight's about to break out in the mines over blame while the manticore-beast roams and feasts on the townsfolk

Subtle

>>52741660
Bards can do orator stuff

rousing speeches, etc

>>52741660

Their bats do when they swing them!

Could also be a Negotiator, which gets stuck into Oratory in exchange for stacking bonuses to Diplomacy and Intimidate.

Or should I go for Savage Technologist?

>>52741549
>>52741532
>>52741631
This is going to be a lesson in "don't leave your slightly enchanted blood in the safekeeping of a fucking wizard, even if you're both related".

>>52741521
>>52741543
>>52741620
Cashmere sounds like a real credit to the game.
Also,
>downs Lysander and wounds Glorisba with one volley

Fuck, is that one of those Fuck You fights? My old DM loved that shit. Impossible fights every other week. It sucked.

>>52741701
>Wizards
>Blood
>Relations
>Fuckups

Oh man this is gonna be fucking golden

>>52741723

He's throwing a CR 5 encounter at a bunch of level 3s, half of which are incapable of actually doing damage and only two of them being effective Ranged combatants.

He wants someone getting mounted.

>>52741723
>manticore
Those things can attack from like 180 feet, good rolls can mean a lot of damage

>>52741594
>childish butt

Different strokes, I guess. Maybe some nice fantasy Irishmen will show some interest.

>>52741682
Screaming 'Ora ora ora!' as you smash someone with a baseball bat doens't count as a 'speech' anon

>>52741682
Why not just be a Skald then?

Is there ever going to be a tier list for all the PoW classes in general?

If not, what would the estimations be like?

>>52741906
Tier 4. Done

>>52741723
She is, she also just did an object reading on the magic collars that were on the trolls to get a bunch of clues

>>52741777

Isn't Gloriana from fantasy Ireland? I'm sure she's got a thing to fuss about her rump.

>>52741917
>>52741906
Low T3 to high T4.

>>52741906
Do recall though, that it's still possible for tier 3s and 4s to be unbalanced.

>>52741906
Mystics and Harbingers can potentially break into low T2

>>52741972

Mystics I see, but harbingers how?

>>52741019
>>52741038
Interesting, I also have Rich and Mary on my list.

>>52741992
Muh Int

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>>52741737
Now, to be fair, I saw the inevitable result of this coming since it was something me and my GM worked out, but the devil is of course in the details of how that result would happen.

>your character's mother was accidentally clued in to what you've actually been doing, because she was contacted to keep an eye on the clone body of Sorshen that the party brought back
>in her infinite wisdom, and your employer's infinite stupidity, she gets the body WITHOUT the coffin build to keep it preserved, and has to improvise with what she has on-hand to maintain secrecy
>what she has on-hand being a whole lot of your blood,
because you keep it stored in case of an emergency
>now you're back home, staring a now very alive clone body in the face

>>52742041
...This sounds familiar somehow.

>>52742064
What I expected to happen was the body to wake up on its own, not for my character's mother to be an idiot

>>52741789
yeah but you can do more than scream 'ora ora', give your fellow thugs an inspiring speech

>>52741809
probably better

>>52741972
>>52741992
Mystics? How so?

>>52742077
"YOU BASTARDS, I'LL BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF YOU" is hardly inspiring anon

>>52741906
Fuck tier lists: they probably go from Fighter SGT to Rogue SGT level, i.e. able to 50/50 at least anything to level 10, and possibly to 15.

Depending on the out of combat stances and if you use the maneuvers that shit all over damage benchmarks, the success/failure ratio will be heavily skewed towards combat challenges.

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Why are Chelaxians so fucking insufferable? It's "muh empire" this or "praise satan" that, and for what? A crumbling bureaucracy supported on the backs of giggling devils and broken halflings?

They just need to embrace Common Rule and accept democracy into their hearts.

>>52742115
Pape satan

>>52742083
Item Crafting without needing to worry about spells.

>>52740719
This. I want to be a big imposing mantis dude.

>>52742115
Go get molested by your mother again, Vince.

>>52739733
There would be no problems with an All Druid party.

You could literally have 4 extremely different, functional characters.

>>52741600
Deja vu. I was just talking to someone about how cool this weapon concept is.

>>52742084
what? jesus, no. i mean that you give an inspiring speech to your gang, so they beat the crap out of the rival gang harder.

>>52742193
"I'll beat the shit out of you if you don't beat the shit out of those guys"

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Explain a true neutral cleric of Folca

>>52742193

This, Bancho do not become gang leaders without being good at speeches.

>>52742137
Master Craftsman doesn't make Fighters T2, desu.

If they can make shit like Candles of Invocation, then they have something inasmuch as they can craft game breaking items.

When using SoP, is a build centered around Telekinesis grapple + Telekinetic Tools to "tie up" enemies with force practical? No risk of counter-grappling is good, but it seems like it'd be hard to build up the grapple numbers high enough to still be useful against anything non-humanoid.

>>52742202

Guy who jerks off to underage hentai.

>>52742188
All bard party also works pretty well if you pick the right archetypes, so you can all have different combined song bonuses.

>>52742206
>Candles of Invocation
Yes. They can iirc. They're basically mini sorcerers with crafting.

>>52742202
>"Nobody told me there was gonna be child sacrifice, man. I just wanted to go around giving out candy. Nobody told me it'd be like this."

>"Maybe I really should've asked what happened to that one girl."

So what were the most valiant attempts at making rouges better?

>>52742258

The Slayer, which actually worked.

>>52742258
Slayer.

>>52742265
>>52742267
And with Brutal you can be Conan!

>>52742224
Well that's neat.

What can they do that won't get banned on the spot?

>>52742258
The Scout archetype.

Alternative answer: Vivisectionist Alchemist

>>52742258
>most valiant attempts at making rogue's better

1pp or 3pp? Because in 1pp you have
>Slayer
>Investigator
>Unchained Rogue Except Not
>Vigilante

If you're asking in general?
>Legendary Rogues Combined with Unchained Rogue

>>52742293
Craft pretty much everything a wizard/sorc can.

>>52742280
Wrong class!

>>52740488
The different deres are archetypes, not 'slightly different shades of waifu', even if they're otaku subculture terms.

>>52739255
There's a bit of a difference between a class that uses bushi and iaijutsu, and one that has abilities called tsundere and yandere. Like, both are weeby, but the latter feels like a fucking Gonzo release with no self-awareness, while the former is just hopping on board the Samurai train that 3.5e and PF were already aboard.

>>52741365
>Bonbon checked

Sick reference bro.

>>52742265
>>52742267
I'll give them a look. Should I through out my notes on rewriting rouge talents to give them some type of versatility or do slayers still have that problem?
>>52742301
I don't remember that one being to good but I'll take a look
>>52742302
Who's legendary rouge by?

Also while I'm here might as well ask, if a player at my group really wants to play a swashbuckler character, or at least something that matches that, but doesn't want to be shit, what options do they have?

>>52742369
Slayer talents are pretty lacking in variety. There're only so many of them worth considering at all, and their best options are really just cheating Ranger feats or dipping into Rogue stuff. Thing is though, those best options are good.

Slayer's a solid class if a bit plain, it mostly just suffers from being a hybrid class, the likes of which Paizo has all but abandoned already for reasons no one knows.

The best rogue replacement is Vigilante with the Exposed Vigilante archetype.

>>52742369
Legendary Rogue is by, surprise surprise, Legendary Games. It's in the trove, just follow the pastebin to the mega link and you should be able to locate it. It's more of a bag of tools than a straight rework, though, since it gives options for both core and unchained rogue, some of which you can't just slap on without adjusting things.

Note that it DOES NOT cover everything you need to unfuck the rogue, but it's a good place to start.

>>52742427
While by RAW this is true, there are still a few things about Rogue that the vigilante has yet to completely steal. Barely.

>>52742369
First off, what do you believe to be the problem with Rogues? Are they not survivable enough? Use Slayer. Do they not get enough status effect shots? Use Investigator (but don't because they're fucking terrible). Do they not get SA against enough things? Unchained Scout/Thug from 4th on. Do skills stop mattering? You have UMD. Not enough neat shit? Vivisectionist Alchemist, Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor, Sandman/Archaeologist Bard, and at least two Warpriests: Cult Leader and Mantis Zealot. Don't like spells? Teisatsu Vigilante or Ninja.

If you are going off of memes and hearsay, ignore them. A charging/intimidating URogue can keep pace with most things until the point where fighty characters start falling behind period. It just requires an incredibly unintuitive method, and the intuitive Rogue shit sucks.

They have to be built like Dex Barbarians or pump Cha out the ass to abuse UMD.

>>52742427
I have a hard time looking at Vigilante as a rogue replacement since they don't get trapfinding, even though trapfinding is total dogshit you'd never realistically need in any given campaign.

>>52742472
Shit, can URogues get pounce?

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Hey /pfg/ just got a simple question in regards to Overlewd.

I need your opinion and want to know what you guys think about me writing an undertone of incest into my character's backstory.

>>52742486
A catfolk URogue can get pounce with claw blades in order to get a full-attack while TWF, but that's at like, level... 14-15? And it requires 13 Str.

>>52742476
Trapfinding is a talent, fampai.

>>52742369
Well what do they want out of a swashbuckler? Best bet would I guess be something like Daring Cavalier, Dervish Fighter or Bard, light weapon Warpriest/Paladin. They can one-drop Swashbuckler on a non-caster for Opportune Parry+Riposte

>>52742501
as long as you aren't creepy or incessant baout it, and if it fits somewhat tastefully into the character backstory, then it should be fine

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I just got #30 - Firearms of Legacy and loved how this "Legacy Weapons" works. I'm looking for more books like that. Any recommendation?

>>52742472
So far, and granted this could just be my players, rogues seem to have the same problems fighters do. They have a niche, and can do respectably well inside it, but most of the time they sit around twiddling their thumbs. All I really had in mind was adding new advanced talents that substitute some utility at higher levels. I don't have a solid idea yet but something like knock a certain number of times per day, or something that lets them have a better chance at actually sneaking and infiltrating.
Also I'm an idiot, whats UMD?

>>52741379
Does she wear a bra of holding like Essa does?

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>>52741521
>>52741543
>>52741620
Post yfw PLD is your vicarious game

Also, did anyone ever make shipping names for the five of them? All I heard was SigmundxLysander : The Golden Gun

>>52742533
Just use Vigilante, with the Exposed Vigilante archetype. The vigilante rogue specialization is designed entirely around having a mix of rogue-like combat abilities and a bunch of non-combat social abilities.

>>52742472
>Use Investigator (but don't because they're fucking terrible)

Nigga, how high are you?

>>52742486
The Tengu racial archetype can. Anyone can if you're willing to be cheesy and one-drop Synthesist Summoner. Pummeling Style is actually really good since you want to build for bludgeoning bullshit and unarmed strikes count under Unchained Finesse.

>>52742511
TWF is a trap with Rogues. You get an ECB, take advantage of how 1.5x two handing works with Unchained Finesse and run up on fools. Bonus if you go for a bludgeoning finesse weapon and rock Bludgeoner/Sap Master.

>>52742410
Slayer just WORKS

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>when you launch a blasty spell and the GM doesn't even roll reflex because they'll die from damage on a passed save anyway

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Tell me, with all these apps to all these meme games, has anyone applied with a Hecatonkhieres Symbiat. I feel like having multiple ghost arms would be something a meme character in a lewd-ish game would find useful.

>>52742583
Alright yeah I'll probably either tell them to go with vigilante or slayer. Still probably going to have to do some re fluffing and mechanical retooling, but hopefully its less work than adding a bunch of rouge talents and letting them take more then just ten.

>>52742592
Investigators can't do shit in combat until 4th, can't do anything mark classes can't after 4th, have a bad spell list, and are carried by the fact you can throw more dice at important skills.

They can't fight as well as an optimized URogue, can't skillmonkey like a Bard, and are strictly worse than one of their parent classes. The only thing not making them worse than Chained Rogues is they don't have to work for their bonus damage.

Seriously, the fact that Chained Rogues are so bullshit unintuitive is the only reason people think Investigators aren't equally shit.

>>52742643
Most male apps just want to fug one of the girl apps.

Some even try to build their app to best "mesh" with another app. For a good time, try to figure out when female app each male app was made to "mesh" with. give it a try. It's surprisingly obvious when you really pay attention.

>>52742692
This sounds like a lot of fun actually.

>>52742675
Teisatsu Vigilante is the better choice for the Stalker spec. Or Serial Killer, but those are evil.

Slayer is probably the best choice, though. They're bland, but effective. They can take Rogue talents anyway.

>>52742608
>TWF is a trap with Rogues
Because of shit accuracy. I never said it WASN'T terrible, I was just saying what an option they had was.

Wasn't courser absolutely terrible,
or was this a case of people just not giving a shit because >Rogue

>>52742692
You can have many arms and still be dedicated to one girl. It just means to can alwasy hav a good handful all over of her.
Just imagine holding your waifu in a deep embrace and a passionate kiss, all while your spectra limbs explore and pleasure her all over from stem to stern

>>52742708
Try not to ship. You're just making impartial observations. You'd be surprised the apps that compliment each other.

>>52742689
>Investigators can't do shit in combat until 4th
Wrong.

>have a bad spell list
Wrong

>They can't fight as well as an optimized URogue
Wrong

>can't skillmonkey like a Bard
Very Wrong.

>are strictly worse than one of their parent classes
I repeat the question, nigga how fucking high are you?

>>52742724
>stem to stem

DO
NOT
FUCK
PLANTS

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>>52742724
>mfw I'll never get to experience this. Ever
Why have I even lived this long?

>>52742689
The only true statement you have made is that they're gimped until 4th level, which is bullshit and should be houseruled just like how Infusion should be houseruled.

>>52742748
Can I tenderly love plants? In the mating press position? While holding hands? And kissing?

>>52742748
Its Stern. S-T-E-R-N. Tis a common phrase based off of maritime vernacular
What caused your mind to follow this path?

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>>52741019
I guess this means I'm an underdog again! Time to drink some more

Bestiary 6 leaks when?

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>>52742776
Welcome to the club. Hope you got some Maker's Mark.

>>52742793
It's definitely whiskey, but all I got's this shitty JD's

>>52742793
I don't appreciate these glasses.

>>52742793
God, wish I had some whiskey.

>>52742776
Hah I felt the same way when the anon made predictions about Blingmaker.

Can't wait when the salt memes drop from the motherfuckers when I get into the game.

>>52742810
I actually have one. It's mostly for swirling the ice cube around. It keeps your hands busy, I guess, is the point.

>>52742808
It's something. I won't hold it against you. Cheers, mate. To good health, good games, and pretty waifus.

>>52742822
Get some man. life's too short to be sober.

>>52742739
Okay nigga explain how they can contribute better than a Warrior from levels 1-3. When your damage boost isn't online, you're 3/4ths BAB, get no bonus feats and a bad set of proficiencies. Actually, do it in general. What makes it better than even a charging URogue. That's bare minimum to beat here, since it's sharing parentage with the (Vivisectionist) Alchemist.

Enlighten me.

Also, explain how the Investigator can compete with shit like Glibness, the Archaeologist's cynical luck bonus with Fate's Favored or even Versatile Performance. If you say Inspiration, I'm going to laugh at you because it requires at least two talents (or one with Empiricist) to be worth a damn. Also, other classes can get it as a feat and when a class has its big trick as a feat, that means it's marginal as fuck.

Having the Alchemist list is not a positive thing when you are not a solid attacking chassis, which the Investigator ain't. And are you really going to argue that the Investigator is not worse than the Alchemist?

You the one high af nigga.

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>>52742692
>>52742708
>>52742725

What if you got it all topsy-turvy? Have you ever seen a female application designed to appeal to a male application before?