/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>52204378
>What kind of characters do you find yourself most often playing with?
Apolitical is a recurring theme.

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>>52204378
>What kind of characters do you find yourself most often playing with?

Usually terrible ones who make me wish I'd never picked up a White Wolf book.

>>52204378
A Brujah Noble in V20DA

the blood of the heathan is not a sin

>>52204378
All special snowflakes. All the time

>>52204378
I've played exactly two
a changeling boogeyman
and a gangrel bogatyr with a bardiche in DA. That game didn't last long, sadly.

>>52205021
What happened?

>>52205038
Died unceremoniously second session, almost immediately after we were introduced. Depressing, since it was the closest I've ever gotten to actually playing a Dark Ages game.

Oh, wait, there was also a Ventrue catholic priest I almost played once. Also died, but this time before the first session.

Not had the best luck with WoD.

>>52205052
Sorry ot hear that mate but how the hell do you die before the first session?

I for one do not have problems such as this because I'm stuck as "forever GM" no matter the game ;_;

>>52205114
Hah, my characters didn't die, the games did. It'd be a lot more enjoyable the other way.

>>52205161
That sucks even more. Hope you get better luck in the future

Mages have Pashupatta Astra / Knife of Ixion, and Werewolves have the First Klaive; Do Vampires, Demons, etc have similar uber-artifacts? If yes, what are they?

>>52204378
Direct but effective zealot.

>>52204378
Street Urchin scrapping by

>>52204236
so mages can kill the universe by just willing it to happen.

I'm starting to think that the ascension devs were massive trolls.

>>52205371
Good thing they put it down like old yeller
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6V98Vd9fi4

>>52204378
Nosferatu psychologist in VtR. Curse displayed as a stench of rot with he covered by smoking cheapest stinkiest cigarettes all the time.

>>52205420
What exactly did they put down?

>>52205371
>so vampires can kill all life on the planet just by willing it to happen

>i'm starting to think that the masquerade devs were massive trolls

>>52205502

Big difference between planet and universe.

>>52205541
They can't do shit because metaplot anyway

>>52205558
The same could be said of Caine and the Antediluvians.

>>52205541
Not really. Once you pass a certain threshold all bullshit starts to smell the same. Archmasters and Antediluvians are both beyond that threshold.

>>52205580
Well yes. No one can do anything in the world of metaplot

>>52205607

I wouldn't say that. Even the plot device Disciplines weren't that impressive in scale compared to 7 - 9 dot Spheres. 10 dots is flat out 'anything goes'

These abilities were not written with balance In mind, remember.

>>52205630
I'm not saying they're equal. Just both in the same field of bullshit.

Question; so it used to be that the 12th and 13th generations were thinbloods, right? About 100 years ago? With all the shit that implies. But now it's the 14th and 15th, and the 12th and 13th are full vamps, albeit the youngest and weakest. Does that mean that 1000 years from now, assuming Gehenna doesn't happen, the thinbloods will be the 16th and 17th?

Is the blood of Caine thickening? And if so, are the Elders also growing stronger? Could the Antedeluvians once have been no stronger than a 13th gen? And if so, how strong will they be a thousand years from now? And how strong will the methuselahs of the 4th and 5th gen be?

>>52205754
whoops. should be "about 1000 years ago?"

>>52205754
I'd assume "thinblood" is a term Vamps have been using to describe the weakest of their kin for quite a while now.

It's only more recently they've actually been seeing it get so diltued that the Kindred aren't just weaker, they're "different".

>>52205856
See, that's the thing- the 13th Generation aka Thin Blood flaw in Dark Ages Vampire makes using disciplines harder- and players are strongly advised to also take the Cannot Embrace or Weak Blood flaw (weak blood is cannot embrace+ no disciplines past 4, and they're harder to boot).

Now, that's not the same weakness 14th and 15th vamps have- but arguably it's worse.

Also I was wrong about 12th gens being thinblood, it was 13th only. Most elders didn't even believe 13th thinbloods could embrace.

>>52205754
How much time passed between 5th and 6th generation? If that was true 6th generations would already join others as methuselahs

Are the following Athletics or Expression?

Gymnastics
Ballet
Figure Skating?

>>52205630
>These abilities were not written with balance In mind, remember.

I love how opp tend to excuse themselves with this reasoning like its a good thing.

Is like saying "self inflicted brain damaged but proud"

>>52206203
They're Athletics
Movement Form, endurance

Expression are more things like instrumental or singing. Speech giving is one of the examples of Expression. I think debate is also expression

>>52206240
>I think debate is also expression
That's debatable.

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>>52205754
>Question; so it used to be that the 12th and 13th generations were thinbloods, right? About 100 years ago?

More like a few hundred years ago, but yes.

>>52205754
>But now it's the 14th and 15th, and the 12th and 13th are full vamps, albeit the youngest and weakest. Does that mean that 1000 years from now, assuming Gehenna doesn't happen, the thinbloods will be the 16th and 17th?

The upcoming V20 book, "Beckett's Jyhad Diary" actually touches on this issue. It also introduces the 16th generation of vampires, which was created in the last couple of years in the V20 timeline.

>>52205754
>Is the blood of Caine thickening?

Yes, it is.

Beckett discovers, among other things, that some thinbloods have begun to develop clan characteristics. One thinblood suddenly ended up losing his shadow, showing that he'd spontaneously re-connected with his Lasombra heritage, and that sort of stuff.

>>52205754
>And if so, are the Elders also growing stronger?

Again, yes.

In the book, Beckett travels to Africa to meet with the Laibon, and there they reveal that the thickening of blood is *not* always a good thing.

The Laibon claim that their own elders are weaker than the Western Kindred mainly because they partake in rituals that lower the blood potency of the old vampires but simultaneously raises that of their fledglings. They do this because "old blood" tends to unravel the minds of the Elders and create a whole cavalcade of derangements that go along with it. The Laibon Elder see the (slightly) weakening of their blood through blood-sharing rituals a perfectly reasonable price to pay, when their own sanity is at stake.

>>52205754
>Could the Antedeluvians once have been no stronger than a 13th gen? And if so, how strong will they be a thousand years from now? And how strong will the methuselahs of the 4th and 5th gen be?

Possibly, but who knows, it'd be all up to the Storyteller!

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>>52206306
Well I thought it might have been Persuasion
>Sees what you did there X)

>>52206330
>>Is the blood of Caine thickening?
>Yes, it is.
>Beckett discovers, among other things, that some thinbloods have begun to develop clan characteristics. One thinblood suddenly ended up losing his shadow, showing that he'd spontaneously re-connected with his Lasombra heritage, and that sort of stuff.

HA I called them importing Blood Potency

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Mage or Chamgeling

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>>52206240
>>52206203
Gymnastics is Athletics, hands down.
Ballet is expression, no question about it.

Figure Skating does throw me off a bit, I could see it being either. I'd probably go with athletics to perform feats like jumping and expression for just floating around like a poof on the rink.

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>>52206560
Do you want to be ultimately powerful? Go Mage. Do you want to be a whiny little bitchboi/bitchgirl who does nothing but cry about going on a magic vacation? Play Changeling.

>>52206647
>magic vacation
>kidnapped, tortured, lost your human life and soul, and are constantly hunted by extra-dimensional beings

Alrighty then...

>>52206617
Balance, Flexibility, lifts, twirls, jumps, high kicks. All of those are under athletics. and Ballet covers all of them. Same reason you put FigureSkating for athletics

Those guys and gal are IN SHAPE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUrJuSh0evE

In awakening could a mind mage wipe another mage 's memories of their magic/arcanums? Probably not make them forget magic altogether but send them back to arcanum 1 expertice

>>52206330

>The upcoming V20 book, "Beckett's Jyhad Diary" actually touches on this issue. It also introduces the 16th generation of vampires, which was created in the last couple of years in the V20 timeline.

Yeah, nah, that's a pile of shit made by OPP.

That, combined with their revisionist bullshit regarding Saulot can fuck off back to the shithole that spawned them.

>>52206417
>HA I called them importing Blood Potency

That's been around for a long time, though, if I recall correctly. I mean, the 12th/13th Gens used to be regarded as the "final" generations in the Dark Ages, even before V20 or Requiem, yet those same generations became "regular" vampires during the Final Nights.

So while I wouldn't really have been bothered if they *did* import Blood Potency from Requiem, there were always hints that blood thickened over time and became more powerful.

>>52207069
>That, combined with their revisionist bullshit regarding Saulot can fuck off back to the shithole that spawned them.

Wait, you're actually bothered by the fact that they're opening for the idea that Saulot *could* be a good guy but also a bad guy, depending on what the Storyteller decides to implement?

lol k

>>52207089
Salt is real mate.

>>52207023
>ould a mind mage wipe another mage 's memories of their magic/arcanum

No, Awakened magic is part of a mage's soul.

A Mind attack could probably befuddle a mage enough to hinder forming an imago, but the effect would be quite temporary.

>>52207089

I oppose faggots that like to play revisionist.

As if this Lore of the Bloodlines bullshit isn't enough with how they completely revise the history between the Salubri and Tzimisce, now there's this Jyhad Diary bullshit.

Seriously now, why is WW letting them go forth with this?

>>52207023
Isn't this sort of instinctual? I guess you could make him forget theory about it but not the power itself

>>52207121

>play revisionist

Vampire history isn't real.

>>52207171

You know what I meant.

>>52207171
I'm requiemfag so I have no stakes(HUEHUEHUE) in this but why are people even opposed to changing such details? How often do intentions of someone like Saulot come into play in their games?

>>52207177

I'm just making sure. After that one dude came in going off about how his life was ruined because Mage magic isn't real I don't know what to expect anymore.

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>>52207203

>magic isn't real

That's right.

>>52206647
The perfect example of non-biased if ever there was one.

that was sarcasm. Fuck off magefag

>>52207190
>why are people even opposed to changing such details?

Because they're faggots who REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE anything changes. Ever.

>How often do intentions of someone like Saulot come into play in their games?

Pretty much never.

>stop reading Changing Breeds around the point furries get mentioned
>Think they've nerfed bastet
>Get linked to the SA post archive
>Oh so very wrong
>Everything is worse than expected
>Were-african-elephant > all

>>52207394
Changing Breeds were mistake.
No seriously War against the pure did solid job on adding shapeshifters other than werewolfs. Why didn't they expand on that

>>52207394
>>52207489
>Using neo wod changing breeds
Just play WtA instead

>>52204378
Lazy vampires with big ambitions and 5 dots in resources never let your players take 5 dots in resources

>>52207782
I have player with 4 dots and I want to stab him already

>>52207072
Mechanically every generation has and Had been weaker. IE bloodpoints and blood spent per round. 11gen had 12BP 12gen had 11BP 13 had 10BP.

Once you have 13 gens with 11BPs you break away from the generation system and then you have blood potency. (Without diab of course.)

Or 14gens with 10BPs. Or you just have a bottom out of all 13+gens at BP10 and they eat up gens. Which is again BloodPotency

>I do like BloodPot because it gets the old dragon argument. I am old because I am powerful. or I am powerful because I am old

15th generation vampires can have children and only take lethal damage from sunlight, they can't sire or make blood bonds. This is stated in Time of the Thin Blood.

Saying
>lol 16th exist now!
Is pure revisionism of the worst kind

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>>52207237
And thus the 5th edition war began

>>52207798
It's really is. I once had to stop the guy from buying recreational nukes I know I could turned it into a sideplot, but that asshole seriously was pissing me off.

I had another character with 5 resources who used his money to blow up Elysium. At least that lead to a fun game. Never again though.

>>52206846
Dance is explicitly listed as a specialty for Expression.

Which isn't to say your average figure skater and ballet dancer probably doesn't have some dots in athletics as well.

>>52208007
The 16th are gonna be even weaker so stop bitching

>>52208476
>Can only take 2 dots in disciplines
>Not immortal
>No ghouls
>Can't use most of his blood points for useful stuff
Just imagine how shit they will be

>>52207737
>>52207489
I know that now, I just had some woefully misplaced hopes after reading WtF2e

>>52208506
>be a hunter
>outpunch 16th gen
>man this are the saddest fucks

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>>52208007
>Saying
>lol 16th exist now!
>Is pure revisionism of the worst kind

so much salt

>>52208506
>>Not immortal

Well, unless they take that particular "not immortal" flaw (which all thin-blooded can take, not just 16th gens) then they're still gonna be immortal.

But yeah, 16th gens are shit in terms of power. That's... kinda the point.

>>52208566
Considering some flaws for 14th gen are granted by default to 15th gen vampires, I think it's possible they will have this flaw naturally

>>52208007
>Saying
>>lol 16th exist now!
>Is pure revisionism of the worst kind
No its not, its just adding more to the setting.

>>52208666
>its just adding more bullshit to the setting.
I totally agree

>>52208696
I'm way more sympathetic towards magefags now. Vampfags are the fucking worse

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>>52208607
>Considering some flaws for 14th gen are granted by default to 15th gen vampires, I think it's possible they will have this flaw naturally

That's true... though, the write-up we can see in the Jyhad Diary previews don't mention that said flaw is automatically acquired.

Still, it's definitely something that could happen, I'll grant you that.

>>52208696
>being this salty over something so minor

The things is, the right way to play VtM is with the 7 camarilla clans and that's it.

Sabbat and the independents were a mistake.

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>>52208846

Don't you talk smack 'bout my Lasombra waifu, faggot.

>>52209016
>Waifuing edgy social darwinists

>>52208846
But the Sabbat were a thing since the first VtM book.

>>52209033
I'm talking about Sabbat playability and clans

>>52209046
I'm pretty sure the Lasombra and Tzimisce were mentioned in it, but I can agree with the sentiment. The Sabbat focuses too much on being an edgy asshole.

>>52209109
>>52209046
>>52208846

The problem about the Sabbat is that the moder Sabbat is all about being an edgy moster who revels in gore and slaughter.
But the idea behind the founding of the sabbat - freeing yourself from the chains of the Older vampires, the really old and venerable ones, was a good idea and can make for interesting character concepts. You just make a about 400-500 year old Lasombra or Ventrue antitribuu who is charming and eloquent. But has no remorse if he/she has to kill somebody fangs bared.
Yeah if you play Sabbat like a 4 weeks old shovelhead good luck and embrace your beastiality... but don't bother when everybody calls you and your friends edgelords!

>>52210427
This. The Sabbat can be cool and fun to play, but it can too often end up in edgy murderhobos.

>>52210522
That is where you GM has to work. It should not even come to this. If you all agree on playing Sabbat, sit with your players and talk with them about what characters they want to play. Even the sabbat can be tragic. Simple things as an escaped shovelhead Lasombra who is shunned by the rest of Kainite society is valid character concept.

I would like to play a Lasomra, with the hunted background who - thanks to beeing unbondable and thus immune to the vaulderie - fled the Sabbat and just wants... well from there you are free to make what you want.

Ok so I may have sold out the location of the Sabbat base to the Vatican.... My pack doesn't know I sold out the base yet but they know I tried to attack them when they got in a fight with the Hunters and pretty much have it confirmed that I'm high-Humanity. They knocked me out and are going to decide what to do with me next session. What the FUCK do I say to talk my way out of this? The only saving grace is that the pack almost uniformly has 9+ Viniculum ratings with me.

>>52210699

For reference I'm a fresh Shovelhead. I was planning to just try and keep my head down and conform while avoiding the edge as much as possible, but then I ended up ashing a Tremere in a single bite by accident and then accidentally draining a guy to death right after, then accidentally siring him in a panic, getting 4-5 Conscience successes on every check and picking up some guilt-based derangements as well as kicking myself into gear that I have to do something about the monsters I'm surrounded by.

>>52210699
Try to convince them the Sabbat is compromised by infernalist agents of the antediluvians and you're trying to save their souls by atoning for the sins of the Cainite race.

>>52210699
pray... pray that God, the almighry Lord may save your Soul because you tried really hard to redeem yourself. Maybe you are heard??

Or make up a story about that this is all part of a larger Plan that you would really tell them if they only would let you go. You can even show them XY if they follow you. From there you have to make shit up.
What clan are you? with what disciplines?

>>52210833
>>52210873

I'm a fucking Intelligence 1 Brujah! I'm a total moron! I've got Celerity as well as Drive 4 so I can pretty easily skip town alive if it comes to that assuming I make it out of the initial interrogation alive, which I probably will. I'm coming up short on ways to not have to retire the character though. Damn my love of playing ditzy characters.

>>52210926
How much Charisma/Presence do you have? Bullshitting your way out of the first interrogation before legging it is a good plan, but if you manage to convince them of some shadowy plot by elders it could be a fun chronicle.

>>52210991

I've got manipulation and subterfuge out the wazoo as well as a specialty for unbelievable lies, so making up a massive conspiracy could be hilarious.

>>52211026
Then do it! Insist on the fact you're doing it to redeem all vampires and swear to Caine every other sentence.

>>52208529
>Van Helsing training school for thinbloods
It was just too pitiful, man.
And some of them even go after older gens after I've trained them.

>>52211061

Only one problem....

There really is a secret infernalist presence in the Sabbat. And it's my packmates. Our pack priest is a hardcore Cainite and anti-infernalist, but everyone besides the two of us are infernalists on that one path that makes you need to corrupt people to evil. A fact that I don't know in-character.

>>52207121
>Seriously now, why is WW letting them go forth with this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjsQUcFHF0k

>>52211105
Hope your bullshitting forces the others to make a mistake and leads to infighting, then run.

>>52211105
Do you have an in character reason to beg to be judged by bigger, scarier vampires? A buncha Revelationists basically in love with you are probably just going to want to beat and starve you and give you depravities to commit in frenzy until you're saved, but the priest should at least get suspicious that they don't want templars watching.

>>52211615
>A buncha Revelationists basically in love with you are probably just going to want to beat and starve you and give you depravities to commit in frenzy until you're saved


This is literally exactly what they're planning.

>>52206214
>I love how opp tend to excuse themselves with this reasoning like its a good thing

Except why should balance be a focal point outside of a specific game-line?

So what should be the ceiling for Disciplines in VtM? How many dots would be optimal? 2 or 3?

>>52213629
Five? You don't need to cap them, unlike the Spheres.

>>52212777
>why should balance be a focal point
Because they (the writers) keep forcing crossovers.

>>52213715
No they don't, only the players do that. Despite even what beast claims to be, all the game lines still only focus on themselves

>>52213629
Generation limits.

Starting with 4 dots is optimal.

>>52208007
In the Dark Ages and Victoria Era, 12th was the max generation and 13th was considered thin blooded.

Then everything changed when the Revised edition attacked.

>>52213733

Case in point, all the current Beast Material besides core is surprisingly crossover light, Mortal Remains aside.

>>52213733
>>52213795
I wasn't aware the discussion was about nWoD/CofD. It's definitely true about oWoD though.

>>52213913
The devs for oWoD gave even less fucks about crossover.

>>52213913
Yeaaahhhh, OWoD was SO crossover friendly.

*cough* *cough* Ascension *cough*

>>52211850
Enjoy your lower humanity then. Take a path. Being a humanityfag in the Sabbat is like being a fishmalk anyway.

Thank your infernalist packmates by selling them out to the Sabbat Inquisition. Go full fanatic Sabbat, Freedom from Slavery, not Slavery to Demons! Diablerize them! Kill them all!

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>>52211850

>>52213933
>>52213986
If you think I implied that oWoD was crossover-friendly then you are either dyslexic or an ESL foreigner.

So, OWoDfags, Kuei-Jin as separate vampire species. Stupid idea or stupidest idea? I won't be shocked if V5 decides to retcon them.

>>52210699
Tell them the Hunters are going after a bigger target(A cammie intrusion) and you're using them to unearth it. You've Almost coned the Hunters into believing you are the second cumming of Angel Gabriel, when the pack met them by accident. You couldn't tell them in the heat of the moment because your brujah blood boils too much in combat. and that you love them SOOO much it turns into Hate. The good news is that you've solidified the your con with the hunters during the fight. But during the combat frenzy you lashed out too much. and they're all too much cool dudes to let a few frenzys between pack mates break up the band. Honest mistake in an otherwise successful plan. But time is now of the essence. And the you make up a mission about burning down the local church. Which you blame on some other religion as a cover up

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What should I pull?

>>52214388
Kuei-Jin are a fucking awesome idea. I don't entirely like the implementation however.

The idea of undead who are the dead risen returned from hell to steal the life force of the living as the asian equivalent to vampires is neat.

The idea of them being pseudo-Exalted in the past? Not entirely sure I like.

>>52213986
Why is Ascension so bad for crossover? Not everything should be combat oriented.

>>52214586
It doesn't share themes with the other lines. Making a muddled mess of a game with no direction the default crossover option.

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Hey /tg/ I just want some criticism on a bit of homebrew.

So, I noticed that Vampires don't really have any way to 'force' their bite other than sheer strength. It seems that if the victim doesn't want to be bitten, there's nothing stopping them from fighting back. So this pretty much means that vampires who feed in ways other than seduction are kinda screwed if they accidentally pick a fight with someone tougher than they look... I remember back in 1e the vampire's kiss came with a save or paralysis that wasn't much better since failing the resistance roll meant you were completely at the vampire's mercy. I came up with this merit as sort of a compromise. It'll allow an otherwise completely uncooperative victim to be stunned by the Kiss while still giving them a fighting chance.

Stunning Kiss •••
Requires Majesty 1 or Nightmare 1

This Vampire's kiss is even more potent than average. Anyone bitten by the vampire must roll resolve+composure - the vampire's Blood Potency+5 or they gain the insensate tilt for a number of rounds equal to the higher of the vampire's Majesty or Nightmare. After being bitten, they are immune to this effect until next sundown whether or not they succeeded on the resistance roll. Non-mortals are immune to this effect unless the vampire spends a willpower to inflict the scarred or swooning conditions.

What do you guys think? Giving mean-vamps a chance to shine or hopelessly OP garbage?

>>52214586
Mages can solve any problem, combat is just one of them.

>>52214586
>>52214604
Yeah its cosmology eats the other cosmologies and vastly reduces their scope, and its ridiculously OP. Other lines can crossover into Mage, but Mage is a bitch to have casually show up in other lines.

>>52214742
Isn't the Kiss a thing in REquiem 2e anymore, that bliss that makes humans stop fighting back?

>>52214765
Seriously, got a problem in the hedge? Don't bother getting the Changelings, Mages do it better.

>>52214742
lashing out
the kiss
the assault

what you want is already in the 2ed system

>>52214904
The Assault doesn't improve your ability to actually feed. It's just a system for collecting Vitae.

The Kiss is all but stated to be voluntary on the victim's part.

And I don't see how lashing out helps, you can make the victim more aggressive or more horny. Not very useful if you're just trying to feed by force.

>>52204236

That image has successfully turned me off from ever playing Mage. Thanks.

>>52214961
lashing out Bestial condition lowers defense
The Assault gives the scared condition.
The Kiss gives the swooning condition.
All of this is Non voluntary on the target's part

Then you Intimidate them to shut up and keep quiet. or suck them off in the alleyway. It runs off the condition system. Read the conditions. Read the book's index of conditions

>>52215068
I'm sure most people in general wouldn't be sad to see you go given how much butthurt you feel over end game books.

>>52215290

Doesn't matter if it's end game or not. Forming universe bombs out of something so small is not good game design.

>>52215361
LIterally nothing in that post is written in a book except the ability to put your magic into items. Everything else around that is just some player being a faggot. Blaming the game line for that makes you the idiot, not them.

>>52215099
But lowered defense doesn't help you keep a grapple.
Swooning is good for getting them to come back for seconds but they need to be willing to get comfortable with the vampire first.
The Scarred condition makes them more prone to being intimidated but does nothing to actually help you hold on in the moment.

Basically, it seems like the out of the box vampire has all the tools to feed on a victim...sometime again later.

>>52215398
You do know the average person has no dots in brawl (aka -1) and 2 strength right? How hard is it to over power someone when you can boost all your stats and your suggested build is brawl heavy? seems like a nonproblem.

>>52215393
Except that's exactly what it does. Forces 9 explicitly targets the entire universe. If an archmage wants to shift the gravitational constant of the cosmos and cause every star to go supernova, he will do it.

Putting that power into objects, known as Wonders, is something every mage does.

>>52206330
>It also introduces the 16th generation of vampires,
Holy shit, 16th generation? They are like weaker versions of the revenants?

>>52215451
Other than your lack of ability to comprehend why someone wouldn't do something I don't see how this is an issue with the game, it just seems like a personal issue with large scale powers. Likely because you are too busy sucking off Caine too think very hard.

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>>52215423
I guess it just bugs me because I see like, Mehket characters all the time with like, 2 Str and 1 Brawl and no Dominate or Majesty and I'm just like..."How do they feed?"

And sure, the average person is pretty dang weak, but life is like a box of chocolates. And it only takes one failed roll for them to be able to run off screaming wee wee wee all the way home.

>>52215398

Basically what
>>52215423
said. Just invest in some brawl. or Dominate and just command "Sit down Shut up" Your exp is better spent there instead of this new thing which will cost you more for less

>>52215501
obfuscate sneak attack. Implant the Kiss. Done.
Nos use the same tactic

>>52215501
Well, is a creepy looking dude jumped me at the alleyway I'd assume he's after my purse before I'd assume he's after my bodily fluids. So even if you fuck up, it's a minor inconvenience and you might as well try again couple streets over.

>>52215495
>Other than your lack of ability to comprehend why someone wouldn't do something
I'm merely mentioning the possibilities here, Anon. Hanging arch spells is a good way to end a setting.

>Likely because you are too busy sucking off Caine too think very hard.
Are you accusing me of being a vampfag?

>>52215537
Does that work though? The books says that the Kiss can only be used non-violently. I'm pretty sure sneaking up on someone and sinking your fangs into them counts as violence.

>>52215451

Thanks for solidifying my hate for Mage.

>>52215495

Masquerade got here first, we deserve to be pampered, boi.

>>52215685
>Masquerade got here first,
Yeah, its literally the line with the least thought applied to it because it was made in a vacuum.

What are your opinions on using a changeling freehold where the courts are each defined by having traditional relations with one other type of supernatural? Probably vampires/sin eaters/werewolves/hedge wizards?

Not for crossover, for a game where everyone is a changeling. Probably with a big focus on goblin markets and a general theme of 'be careful what you wish for' and 'Is this sacrifice worth it?'

Ideas for cool weirdness that might crop up in such a freehold?

>>52215671
They pretty much means you can't use it in combat or as a damaging move. The Kiss is slower, and besides the blood loss damage, the victim is non the "worse". Blood loss damage is one lethal per point taken. The advantage of the Assault is that is can cause combat damage while refilling your bloodpool. Your fangs count as 0L brawl attacks

The Kiss is like snake venom. replace paralysis with euphoria and you get the idea. Anything else we can help you with pal?

Would you guys be interested in a Discord server? I think it'd be fun to have one.

>>52215800
Hmm, okay. I think I see. I just got the idea that the Kiss was for seductive purposes only.

Actually that does leave me with the question - if the vampire uses the Kiss to hunt stealthily and the victim never sees them, will they still get the swooning condition with the vampire in mind?

Also, let's say a vampire sneaks up on, oh, I dunno, a paranoid Mage for shits and giggles and plants a stealth-kiss on him, spending a WP to inflict the swooning condition. Does that mean he'll be able to drain the mage to death with pretty much a single surprise roll? Even if the mage was on edge for combat?

>>52215766
Given that almost every supernatural community is full of territorial assholes, that's be a hilariously poor idea.

Especially mages. I'd rather liaison with psychotic nosferatu than be within 100 feet of a mage, if I was a changeling. At least vamps will only kill and drain you.

>>52215800
Following up on that, does that mean anytime a vampire plants a kiss on someone out of combat, it could potentially be a death sentence if they had the mind to drain them?

>>52215451
Archmasters are fucking retarded.

>>52215862
Oh gods the only way to make this thread worse would be to listen to the screeching autistic arguments get shouted over each other rather than in text.

... though it would make finding a game a possibility...

>>52215929
Caine is fucking retarded.

>>52215930
>... though it would make finding a game a possibility..
That's one of the reasons why lol

I haven't been able to play a WoD game in over two years (at the last one was my first one).

>>52215955
Reeeeeee

>>52215956
I don't know if I'd WANT to game with you fucks...

But I am desperate and as long as there wereNO MAGE CROSSOVER AT ALL it'd be fine I think. Just pure mage or pure notmage

>>52215955
Book of Nod is pure literature.

The Technocracy is right and should be supported

>>52215991
>>52215991
Been thinking about running a short Masquerade game. Cam 7, set in NYC after the Camarilla has edged out the Sabbat to Queens and Staten Island and has, ostensibly, taken control of NYC.

I always end up playing charming witty guys, most due to the fact our Hunter team needs a cell leader, and I naturally make the best fit.

I also tend to minmax a bit hard, so I'm not bad in a fight, and focus my brains into wits and related skills, and my social into presence and stuff for leading and making friends (to this end I usually buy striking looks for the cheap bonus dice).

>>52216271
I would play hard. Definitely up for it. What time zone and days you got?

>>52216436
Still developing, likely it would be Eastern time on Friday evenings, possibly weekly but most likely bi-weekly with downtimes.

The number of blood points a vampire can spend depends on her generation. Some disciplines needs the vampire to spend multiple points. Let's say a vampire can spend only one point per turn, but wants to use a discipline that spends 3 points, so it takes 3 turns or is it just impossible to use?

>>52216485
I could do that.

>>52215895
Yes. there are many stories of vamps losing control and draining their love ones dry

>>52215879
You ever have a wet dream? Getting a hard on while sleeping? Ever meet your literal dream girl, but never remember where you met? Thats sandman tactics right there.

>mage
unlikely but Possible. Weirder shit has happened. Ambush and surprise are valuable tactics.
>inb4 magefags v vampfags AGAIN

>>52216603
>surprising a mage
Easier said than done, according to Demons.

>>52216658
According to everyone, assuming the mage isn't a complete downy.

>>52216485
I'm guessing you want to wait more before recruiting?

>>52216914
Yeah. If you wanna shoot me an email, you can hit me up at [email protected]

>>52207069
Nah, nah, that was a directive from Dracula, which is why shitty thinbloods are in the computer game. Also, your canon knowledge is weak; Saulot as seesawing between good and bad comes from V:TDA1 and V:TM Revised.

>>52217055
I am in the process of working out all the 'basic' deets, so it'll be a couple of weeks before I start hardcore, but having someone to bound ideas off of wouldn't be horrible.

>>52217069
Why does Dracula have such a hardon for thinbloods? They're literally garbage-tier vampires. All the weaknesses without any of the benefits or lore.

>>52217410
Its pmuch an empty narrative space.as far as World of Darkness goes, so hes not stepping on anything really 'established' in the lore.
Its about as close to ground floor to 'playing yourself' as you can get too if you look at things from a LARP perspective.

Can anyone please give feedback to this CoD character sheet I made for a famous mythological trickster?

>>52217699
It's shit.

>>52217699
>character sheet
The complete lack of sheet or character makes it clear you've put very little effort into it. 0/10.

>>52217699
10/10 would play with you.

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>>52216175
I literally cannot imagine living in a world where the Technocracy exists. Even as a pacifist, I'd support killing every single member of the Technocracy. They are TERRIFYING bad guys and actually worse than vampires. Vampires just want to murder, abuse, and enslave you. At least, with them, they will only take a few lives every year. With the Technocracy, you cannot believe anything they don't want you to believe, and they will never stop until they succeed.

Nephandi destroying all of reality is better than a Union Ascension victory.

Seriously, the whole idea of elite scientist saying what EVERYONE should believe to the point you can't think otherwise is the most evil things imaginable.

>>52217906
>to the point you can't think otherwise
When do they do this last bit, I don't recall that happening and seems like if it did, would literally negate the entire game.

>>52217728
OK, you got me there. Here is the link to the sheet:

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/793173-the-horror-show?p=1063730#post1063730

Are there any descriptions of Arcadia and the True Fae in any of the changeling supplements other than the core book? I'm trying to plan a changeling chronicle where the players start off as mortals trapped in Arcadia and have there experiences there happen in play rather than in background.

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My group wants to play VtM and me being the forever GM I am apparently going to run it. I've got a handle, for the most part, on the world and the system. But I have a few questions.

What are the themes of stuff I should be running?
Are the players typically united in a common purpose? If so what typically unites them?
They want to play Sabbat, should I avoid this?
Is there anything, system wise, that my players will try that I should be on the lookout for?
One of my players is a fucking encyclopedia of WoD lore, should I change things slightly just to fuck with him?

Pic related, pretty much how my group rolls.

>>52218167
Check out the Equinox Road supplement, especially Chapter Three and the Appendix.

So if all the anti-intellectualism/anti-science, belief that climate change and vaccinations is a conspiracy of scientists, breakdowns in the globalist order and rise of nationalism, increased risks of war, economically depressed populace, Trump (Clinton/Bush would be the clear Technocracy choices), etc. are incorporated into the oWoD, could it be said that the TU is getting a real thrashing (assume no apocalyptic events like Gehenna occurred)? Like I'd imagine that 2017 Technocracy is pretty much freaking the fuck out seeing their post WWII order come under fire.

It'd make an interesting setting from either the Trads or the Union, and may be one of the rare times that we can portray the TU as the underdogs.

>>52218019
They don't really. The Technocracy is all about the responsible use of magic via Enlightened Science, which empowers everyone, not just the Awakened/Enlightened. To do this, they must have Consensus. If Consensus is challenged or broken among the Masses, then Devices (Enlightened Foci) such as cellular phones and computers, medicine (Enlightened potions), or Procedures (Enlightened Rotes) such as blood transfusions or heart transplants would no longer be operable by the Masses. Ergo, reality deviants must either stay hidden and oppressed (which presents its own problems), or pogrom!

Within the Enlightened Scientific consensus though, you can be as creative as you want, and Enlightened Science incorporates all modern day scientific thought and technology at its most basic level, and goes all the way up to fricken Dyson Spheres at Mastery, or time machines at Arch-Scientist levels. Then you have shit like Enlightened Mathematics, or Mathematicians literally killing shit, predicting the future, or invalidating Para-Science with mathematical proofs. It's a pretty fucking huge field all things considered. Not at all stifling, and there's a reason why Science is the dominant school of Magic in the oWoD.

>>52218188
>What are the themes of stuff I should be running?
Trying to remain human and not become insane/autistic

>Are the players typically united in a common purpose? If so what typically unites them?
>They want to play Sabbat, should I avoid this?
Well, Sabbat are the "live fast, die young, and eat other vampires" faction so it's like a party of Chaotic Evil murderhobos.

>One of my players is a fucking encyclopedia of WoD lore, should I change things slightly just to fuck with him?
Yes.

>>52218227
Iteration X, the Syndicate, and the NWO would all be at each others throats over things like automation attacking the labor-capital paradigm. The Technocracy tend to be a reflection of our institutions. When things are going well, as they did in the early 90s, the Technocracy looks indomitable, and when things are looking bad or uncertain, the Technocracy does too.

In fact, for all the Real World reasons you listed, it makes me slightly uncomfortable using the Technocracy as baddies in my campaign nowadays.

>>52218227

Science is explicitly far more limited than mystical workings.

>>52218450
And that's a good thing, as mages have no sense of right and wrong

>>52218461
No sense of right and wrong. And no sense of perspective. It's very strange. When you continually get your way and say no to stuff you don't like, you stop challenging yourself. and you stop growing or empathizing with other view points

>>52218450
Science is also a rather broad term, even when the Union is involved. Hermetic magic, at its core, is a scientific discipline.

>>52218450
Archscience is just as crazy as Archmagic. I mean, have you seen the shit the VE can get up to with high level Dimensional Science. They killed an Antidelluvian (said Antidelluvian was already weakened from having to fight a bunch of pissed of supernaturals, but still).

The only difference between Science and Magic is that one forms the basis of Consensual Reality (so the low level shit can be done by sleepers), permanent, and is replicable, whereas magic usually isn't. The downside to Enlightened Science is that it usually comes with a very high level of banality and static (not bad things in moderation, but Union Scientist usually take it too far).

>>52218572
Yeah, all magic is science and all science is magic, but for the purposes of convinience, I usually say that anything that isn't plausable within Consensual Reality is magic, and what is is Science. Even the scifi shit like HIT Marks is plausible in the future if Consensual Reality is followed.

>>52217071
>>52217055
Sent you an email- should be fun.

>>52218632
>Archscience is just as crazy as Archmagic
Depends on your definition of 'crazy'

>They killed an Antediluvian
As a reminder, the Archspheres were not involved in the nuking of Zapathasura.

I'm gonna share the link to the new Horror again just in case it wasn't seen. Feedback is greatly appreciated.

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/793173-the-horror-show?p=1063730#post1063730

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>>52218694
Didn't they fry it with a solar canon mirror thing.

https://youtu.be/kiYDdflABuc

>>52218694
As well as they shouldn't be. Archspheres should be kept out of the meta as much as possible.

Gods know mages hardly need them.

>>52218227
They aren't the good guys. The Traditions are almost always neutral while the Technocracy actively holds humankind back. They aren't about protecting people, they're all about control.

This is how I imagine the Technocracy functions, especially the "Just run it through the computer" line:

https://youtu.be/owI7DOeO_yg

Not evil for the sake of it, but definitely uncaring and amoral.

>>52218454
What did White Wolf mean by this?

>>52218743
>video
It was nowhere near that dramatic.

The Spirit Nukes did 100x times more damage than the solar rays. They only deployed the bombs (which nearly killed the ancient vampire) In response to the Bodhisattvas conjuring favorable weather to ward off the sun.

The entire Week of Nightmares made no sense, as they could have killed the Ante with far subtler means.

>>52218800

Except the Technocracy fights all sorts of evil shit that hurts humanity. They aren't monolithicly evil, especially not on the individual level.

>>52218300
Got it. Thank you.

>>52218227

The idea that any significant minority of mages or technocrats know how magick(tm) actually works is the worst cancer of the setting. Trying to actively and awarely control Consensus makes everything feel like a clusterfuck.

>>52218760
Antediluvians seem to equal low level Archmages. Forces 7 can already rival Protean 10.

>>52219029
Voormas was working his way up to seven dots in Entropy, in order to halt the universe in its tracks.

Arch-Spheres scale rather inconsistently, but are disgustingly enormous in power.

>>52218227
I've been copying shit from the SCP wiki for my campaigns. Stuff like magical dadaist art terrorists works marvelously well in the World of Darkness.

Anyone else do this?

>>52219008
I think only the very top know. Most Technos just see all Trads as basically being baby sacrificing reality deviant Marauders, just like most Trads have banded together for survival from Techno persecution, not to push any real agenda.

>>52219083
The SCP Foundation is a different sort of whack compared to the whack of Ascension.

I can't even bother to think of them crossing over.

>>52218955
Don't kid yourself. They aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts, but to maintain control. The world was doing just fine for hundreds of thousands of years before they came along with their science and ensnared reality.

>>52219446
You mean the world ruled by wizard kings who enslave humanity? Yeah the world was doing fine, the people were just cattle.

>>52219462
>Implying the Technocracy hasn't enslaved the masses

>>52219462
>>52219543
>Implying the masses don't want to be enslaved

Can we all just agree that CofD is better than OWoD?

>>52219582
No, CofD is shit and has no soul. WoD is unique and cool.

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>>52219602
>WoD is unique and cool

Technocracy vs Traditions is basically just Enlightenment vs Romanticism. Both have their points, and both are apart of the human condition. The Traditions in general want everyone to be unrestrained so that they may realize individual greatness. Unfortunately, if you aren't apart of those gifted with the willpower to Awaken, then you don't really matter very much in the grand scheme of things. Hence why when they were in control you had mage lords ruling over the Sleepers.

The Technocracy on the other hand is concerned with uplifting society. Science is the magic of the Masses. This comes at the cost of hindering or chaining the aspirations of the exceptional at times (like Dante).

>>52219582
Yes.

>>52219582
OWoD had better setting and atmosphere but suffered from powercreep and bad rules.

>>52219619
What the fuck is that image?

What are the most broken (or just really annoying) things in VtM that the players have access to?

>>52219655
>OWoD had better setting and atmosphere
Anon please stop with the lies

>>52219680
Hiring a mage to do the broken stuff for them

>>52219619
>>52219681
Denialfags can't accept their games aren't as good as WoD

>>52219666
A potato with Down syndrome.

>>52219685
>players having access to powerful mages

>>52219582
System wise? Yes. Setting wise? HELL THE FUCK NO!

It's just oWoD with anything potentially controversial or that hit's close to home drained out of it.

>>52219700
If Ascension was so good then why is it dead?

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>>52219666

>>52219729
I just play vampire, everyother book can just disappear

>>52219729
Ascension dead? Have you even seen the massive amount of magefags breeding in the depths of /tg/ ?

>>52219742
>tfw arthur punches you so hard you look like some kind of propane salesman

>>52219753
Doesn't change the fact that Ascension is dead.

>>52219765
You are in denial.

Crawl back into your filthy hole.

>>52219685
If mages showed up in my VTM game, then its basically a rocksfallseveryonedies because the players had to fuck something up big time to get the attention of guys like the Technocracy, Traditions, Pentex, etc.

>>52218970
Keep in mind that I'm also pretty new to this WoD stuff, just giving my 2 cents.

>>52219778
Isn't pentex controled by the technocracy?

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>>52219775
>ascensionfags accusing anybody of denial and originating from a filthy hole
the irony is too much

>>52219797
The Syndicate funds them but I don't think they control them per se.

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>>52219729
>>52219765
>>52219805
>mfw this got a new edition faster than awakening.

Saying it over and over again doesn't make it true sweetheart.

>inb4 it sucks

Yes, I know it sucks. But it's in print and being played. Deal.

>>52219861
>posts m20 as proof his game isn't dead
>when it's actually just the final nail in the coffin

>>52219797
The syndicate has, well had, a founding interest in Pentex back when it was just premium oil. The Syndicate Special Projects division was purged during Project invictus as it was basically a pipeline for malfean Nephandi to infiltrate the union.

>>52219883
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYKPdNvH800

>>52219797
No, Pentex only convinced the Syndicate that they had control. Pentex did a hostile takeover of one of the Syndicate's Constructs (their research division), and any NWO MiB or Syndy Enforcer has a bad habit of disappearing when they get too close to the whole Wyrm worshiping shit (they actually mailed some severed Technocrats heads back to a VPO to threaten him) .

It's really bad shit, because the Syndicate really wants to bust Pentex up, but Pentex has them by the balls. If the Syndicate were to seriously fight them, then Pentex will release its blackmail material (leading to the other Conventions finding out all the Nephandi shenanigans the Syndicate have in their closet) while also merrily crashing the global economy. So that leaves the Syndicate trying to appease/cover up things while also covertly funding initiatives like Project Invictus.

This isn't to mention that Pentex has Mage/Nephandi Lawyers, and they are damn good at their jobs.

>>52219892
That's kind of messed up.

>the screaming frog trapped in the plastic bag
Disturbing.

>>52219926
He gives us autistic screeching on a nightly basis, I gave it right back.

>>52219908
This reads like fanfiction.

Source?

Black spiral dancers are garou that fell to the Wyrm. What would happen if a garou fell to the Wyld or the Weaver (if it's possible)?

>>52219938
Tales of Magic: Dark Adventure and Conventionbook: Syndicate Revised.

Both excellent fucking books, by the way. highly reccomended.

>>52219446
Dragons kidnapping virgins
Changelings starting wars for kicks
Leach Lords stealing your wife
Sorcerer Kings burning your homes down
Wolves at the gates eating your kids
Everyday man sucking dirt

Stop romanticizing the past. It was terrible.

>>52219938
>Although the Special Projects Division is the Convention’s smallest methodology, they have become the most corrupt. While most SPD
members are simply salespeople for these companies — spending their SPD budget and earning a hefty commission at the same time — willing to turn a blind eye to questionable activities, others have been fully corrupted by the dark forces they serve.
Book of Madness page 80

>There is a reason, but few outside SPD suspect the truth: SPD is the Syndicate’s liaison with Pentex, a conglomerate directed by a spiritual entity labeled the Wyrm. Most of SPD’s “technology” relies on the power of evil spirits to function, and it exerts a detrimental influence on the soul of its users. Far from helping to keep the earth clean of deviants, the SPD aids entities as corrupt as the Nephandi. These corporate reps have been infested with a spiritual taint, a primal force many primitives know as “the Wyrm.
Guide to the Technocracy page 116


>There’s a large amount of damning evidence regarding SPD’s connection with various Reality Terrorists, notably Nephandi
Syndicate Revised Corebook, page 56

>>52219908
>Pentex has them by the balls

That's a bit of an exxageration.

>>52219949

Nah, it's another example of another game-line intentionally dumbing down Ascension for their own sake. Realistically, Pentex just isn't a threat to the Union.

It was Blood Treachery all over again. Authors worming their way into the Mage-staff to shit out horrible and nonsencial writing.

>>52219961
You sure know your shit, do you just know about mages or others games as well? What books do you consider must reads?

>>52219978
>muh fair shair of epicness and balance
non-Ascension writers in a nutshell.

>>52219978
>That's a bit of an exxageration.

Not really. If they gave their portfolio on the Syndicate to the NWO, then it'd pretty much be the end of the Syndicate as a Convention. Also, for all their power and Enlightened Mathematics and Economics, the Syndicate are a bunch of pansies.

>>52220017

No, it really is an exaggeration. Going downtown on the Syndicate will literally guarantee mutually assured destruction of both parties. The figures at Pentex aren't stupid, they'e not going to anger the other Conventions, even if said Conventions somewhat loath the Syndicate to begin with.

Pentex isn't going to stand against the remaining four big-leagues, not when they're combined as a sum total. I could see the Void Engineers not giving a qualm, but the rest are just not going to have their seperate infrastructures even minimally threatened of being torn apart.

But the metaplot IS full of idiotic imbeciles, in which case you might as well be right.

All of the Conventions are shit, except for the Void Engineers, which is literally the single most powerful organization in the WoD setting.

Dyson Spheres and machine-planets FTW

>>52220074
>Void Engineers, which is literally the single most powerful organization in the WoD setting.
No, it isn't. The most powerful organization in WoD is the Camarilla

>>52219978
I thought the idea had merit. but like most things ww tried, it lacked subtlety and direction. It was alot of Grandstanding. To make it work you'd have to make all the higher ups in Pentex spiritually possessed, so they had enough meat against straight out assault.

I thought the idea of a compromised base interesting, and could be played around with for a story. but after the story, assume PCs make it. the operation unfolds really quickly

I come to these threads to assure myself that Caine would get spanked by Archmages.

I never leave disappointed.

>>52220092
And yet the Sabbat keep winning

>>52220092

Vampfag alert.

>>52220092
You are beyond autistic if you honestly believe that.

The Union beyond the Consensus is literally the Empire from Star Wars. Threat Null being the Borg from Star Trek.

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>>52220092
>The most powerful organization in WoD is the Camarilla

>>52219978
>Realistically, Pentex just isn't a threat to the Union.
They're a threat to global order, which means a threat to the TU. Pentex is like Enron or Koch X100. They go down, and they're taking the global economy down with them. They've basically turned the Unions own tools against them.

Also, Demonic Lawyers and Lobbyists.

>>52220056
They mailed severed heads back to the Syndicate VPO of Finance. I don't think they're too concerned with angering the Technocracy, especially when they no that there's some pretty big divisions between them. Even so, if Pentex struck a major blow to the Technocracy or the global order, then that's still a major win for them. Pentex realizes that its goals (death of Gaia) and the Technocracy (Stability and ascendancy of humanity via Control's Time Table) conflict greatly, so war is inevitable. They even serve opposite aspects (Technocracy is an aspect of the Weaver while Pentex worships the Wyrm, which is chained by the Weaver), so that'd be enough to get Pentex wanting to fuck the Technocracy.

>>52220000
Not that guy but NULLQUADS DEMAND AND I ANSWER!

Keep in mind that this is just off of the top of my head.

>1st Edition
Book of Chantries and the Book of Madness. The first is a labor of love but dated. The second absolutely still holds up.

>2nd Edition
Guide to the Technocracy, Tales of Magick: Dark Adventure, Initiates of the Art, All of the second edition Trad books, The Book of Mirrors, Umbra: The Velvet Shadow, The Orphan's Survival Guide, Technomancer's Toybox.

>Revised Edition: All of the Traditionbooks with the exception of Hollow Ones, All of the convention Books, Guide to the Traditions, The Bitter Road, Mage StoryTeller's Guide, Book of Madness 2.0, Forged by Dragon Fire, Ascension.

>>52220143

Sorry, the metaplot makes no sense here. Pentex is shit when compared to the mass collective of the Union. You're fucked if you manage to piss their off-world leaders / arch-Scientists.

>>52220143
>I don't think they're too concerned with angering the Technocracy

Gee, they're going to get buttfucked up the ass for believing that. They're barely fighting more than a single Convention, they have no idea just how far the Technocracy can go.

>>52220169
>They're barely fighting more than a single Convention
This is true. Most of the Union's assets aren't even on Earth to begin with. They have more resources than anyone else in the setting.

>>52220143
>Enron
Enron failed horribly under their criminal accounting practices. Also we're still here, and other companies filled the vacuum. The collapse of major company will hurt but the economy wouldn't fall apart. Pentex is not too big to fall

>>52220106
>>52220117
>>52220135
>>52220136
Why are magefags so easy to bait?

>>52220154
I don't think you realize how powerful Nephandi of the Triat are. These are the guys who invert their avatars and allow umbrood (or cosmic horror aliens if you're Enlightened) to possess them. These are the guys who the Traditions and Technocracy will drop everything to unite with one another to take down as soon as they see just one. And of all the spirits, the Triat are the most powerful and most dangerous.

Pentex is extremely dangerous, and the mages don't even have a clue.

>>52220169
They're a suicidal death cult who wants to kill earth through pollution and climate change so that they can be eaten by an eldritch abomination. Self preservation isn't a big deal to them.

>>52220106
>Sabbat
>winning
>ever

>>52220154
Don't most arch-scientist go crazy or completely detached from reality. I know the last arch-scientist they had, Dante, deflected with the Virtual Adepts.

>above Anon not realizing that canonically the Technocracy only allows Pentex to exist because they make a lot of money

>>52220206
I'm a Sabbatfag thank you. Drowning in cammy tears every day.

>>52220264
If they knew about the Nephandi shit, then they, along with every other mage around, would call a pogrom on them.

>>52220263

Dante was with the Virtual Adepts.

>>52220264
>>52220169
>>52220154
>Brings up simple logical fact
>Sources are provided
>B-BUT IT DOESN'T COUNT

MAGEFAGS ON SUICIDE WATCH

>>52220299
He was with the Technocracy first, and they were grooming him to be one of their best Scientists. He ran off with some Progenitors to join the Traditionalists when he was a teenager.

>>52220328
Not sure you are reading the thread correctly.

>>52220354
Would it help if I closed my eyes?

>>52220135
>The Union beyond the Consensus is literally the Empire from Star Wars.
Throw in a bit of 40K influence with Void Engineers going Nephandi/Reality Terrorists from dimensional alien corruption.

>>52220328
>Pentex and the Syndicate hate each other.
>Syndicate doesn`t want their nudes to leak.
>Afraid that the NWO will cut their penises off it that happens.
>Even more afraid that the whole Union will butcher both Pentex and the Syndicate if they find out

Clear as day, Anon.

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Guys guys GUYs chill. Everyone knows Death is an Arcane from awakening. We can just rez ascension from nwod into Cod and make nunuWod entropy the greatest thing since the Wyrm tunneled up the Weaver's asshole to save the Wyld

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>>52220328
>kek

>vampfag detected

>>52220406
Lets just move along before this descends further.

Say you had to pick a vampire clan to join- which, and why?

>>52219954
Yeah, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that rampaging dragons and evil changelings were pretty low on the list of things a 3rd century peasant was going to need to worry about.

I can see Pentex taking on a single Convention or Tradition.

I can't see them taking on the whole Technocratic Union or the entirety of the Traditions.

>>52220424
Tremere because they're blood mages and shit on all the other clans because they used to be mages

>MAGE SUPREME PIZZA

>>52220441
>>52219954

If you check out your Ars Magica, the Order of Hermes usually crushed these threats with a swiftness, because Dragons eat Wizards too. The Celestial Choir usually sent holy knights out on chargers to deal with Dragons too.

Not to say that the old Fellowships were shining paragons of morality, but they weren't even as evil as the Union. They exerted nowhere near the level of paranoid control that the Union does on modern life and if anything, Sleepers controlled the Paradigm back then, with their cultures, and the world was a patchwork of realities analogous to city states. Everything was fine up until the Order of Reason came along and knocked everything over.

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>>52220441
>what are Grimm tales?

>>52220446
It's more like Pentex infiltrated the Syndicate's middle management, then took over their research department. The Syndicate is still reeling and trying to clean up all the infernalists taint Pentex left them before Ivory Tower gets involved.

>>52220454
Tremere are just gimped Hermetics that can't take a little bit of sunlight.

>>52220398
/k/ommando, here. That's a pellet gun.

Do you even operate, bro?

>>52220475
>man I love dying at 30 and watching my wife die in childbirth.

Come off of it. The reality is that life before the age of reason was short brutal and shit. Natural plagues and illness were still around. The people were controlled by land lords. Lord help you if you had a bad harvest. Wizard kings were only beholden to themselves for their own morality. The order's own kind abandoned them to become vampires out of cowardice. life was good for mages, but the common farmer was fucked

>>52220424
>Say you had to pick a vampire clan to join- which, and why?
Gangrel, because muh freedom and self-acceptance and independence.

Exemplars (evolved Archmages) MotA pg 54

>"The idea that there are creatures out there capable of, well, just about anything within their area of competence is pretty spooky. What do the Traditions do when an Exemplar shows up in the Technocracy?"

>"Not much, really."

So how does one reliably stop an Archmage from being a cosmic douche, exactly?

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>>52220558
>He doesn't understand how average life expectancy is calculated.

Average life expectancy during this period is low due to the fact that there is a Sky-high infant mortality rate. If you made it to eighteen, you had a reasonable chance of make it to your late fifties to early sixties. ALE takes into account ALL deaths, even those from an infant with an incurable congenital condition that survives a day outside of the womb.

>>52220570

You don't

>>52220570
Other archmages. They're the ICBMs of the oWoD. They're doing their job when they're sitting in their horizon realms and not doing anything.

>>52220446
The Wyrm can fuck with Technocratic hypertech pretty easy, being the anti-science Triat who wants to turn back things to before Creation. Aside from that, most of the Union doesn't know jack shit about the Triat, nor do they really want to. What little they know scares the shit out of them. The Void Engineers are only ones who kinda delve into it (through Dimensional Sciences), and they have a tendency to go crazy from the revelations and become Nephandi.

>>52220620

That's some nice fanfiction there, buddy.

>What little they know scares the shit out of them

You're hilarious.

>>52220620
So you need one of the three strongest spirits to take on the Empire?

Might as well throw in Oracles and domesticate the Triat.

>>52220620
Stop trying to justify it. Kicking in the Wyrm/Pentex's shit should just be another day for the Union.

In VtR bullets do bashing damage to vamps- I'd assumed that was the case in VtM, but I can't find anything that indicates that in the v20 book. Indeed, bullets are listed under lethal in the bit explaining damage types.

Am I just missing something?

>>52220631
>>52220646

VEs fall to ̶C̶h̶a̶o̶s̶ Triat influences all the time. Just look up the Gardener in the VE Source Book.

>>52220667

That has always been a thing. Yet it was never once a direct counter to their infrastructure as a whole. If that were the case, the Union shouldn't even exist within the Deep Umbra.

You're exaggerating something that is already widely acknowledged.

>>52220646
>abloobloobloo my favorite splat can't instantly solve everything like in my fanfictions and has actual challenges hold me mommy

>>52220424
Salubri Watcher, Antitribu or Harbinger of Skulls.
I started with V:tDA and still have a hard on for these (even though the Watchers were just a rumor in the Clanbook Salubri, not a full fledged branch like in VDA20).

>>52220676
I hate bringing it up, but M20 has the Union being especially weak to Nephandi inflitration. And its not like it'd be the first time. They were weak to it back at the start of WWII (though many Technocrats still went against the Union leadership and helped the Allies even before Nephardic influences were discovered).

The Wyrm went around eating planets and all the respective spirits inhabiting them in that one End Times scenario.

Yet we have Archmages capable of eating galaxies and becoming Celestines just like the Triat.

Yeah, the Technocracy fucks Pentex into the bowels of oblivion.

You also have to remember that the Wyrm isn't going to save Pentex, not at all. It actually needs to wake up for that, in which case he just goes berserk and noms everything.

>>52220732
>post Avatar Storm Union
You're talking about a corpse.

The real power here is Threat Null, which is currently conducting massive genocide upon the infinite Umbra, and ISN'T losing.

>>52220646
Maybe but there are reasons to keep it hushed up. The fact that it would destroy global stability which is the thing that technocrats have been cultivating for centuries and the people who know what's going on are the same ones that would be on the chopping block as part of the cleanup and are simultaneously the least militarily capable convention.

Invictus is actually the best of Mage. All of the oWoD games are something else before they are themselves.

Vampire is a crime game. It's the Godfather with fangs.

Werewolf is a military action game with supernatural elements. Seriously, go look at Recon or Twilight 2000 for werewolf inspiration.

Ascension was always an espionage RPG at heart. Wheels within wheels and agencies within agencies and an Invictus game gets to the heart of that. Seriously, go watch Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy to see how that shit goes down.

>>52220755
It's not like the Nephandi have aswadim of their own to counter arch-mages/scientist.

>>52220788
Not all of the Nephandi are aligned with Pentex and the Wyrm.

Isn't Pentex from Apocalypse? Why is it run predominantly by Ascension chumps?

Or is it just a metaplot faction in itself?

>>52220826
People, include white wolf, insist on making crossovers.

This is because they are retarded, and must be stopped.

>>52220826

So the big baddies of Apocalypse are mages?

Huhhhh.

>>52220814
I don't think he was making that claim, though Nephandi do have a tendency towards the Wyrm if they're worshiping the Triat, since its the Primal force linked with Entropy. I don't know of any Nephandi who'd go for the Weaver, who represents Stasis.

>>52220826
Pentex is the main antagonist featured in one of the better Technocratic campaigns.

>>52220872
But isn't it from Apocalypse though? Why is it a corporation run by mages?

>>52220889
It's not run by mages. They were set up by mages but went rogue

>>52220446
Apparently some people here think that Pentex has an actual shot at combating the Union as a whole.

You lose all credibility when you believe such things.

>>52220916
So mages that went rogue? Got it.

>>52220931
It's more that mages that set it up already were rogue. Pentex itself is run by all manner of things serving Wyrm

>>52220889
It's ran by demonic inverted mages called Nephandi who want to annihilate all of reality, both mundane and magical. While the Union, Traditions, and even Marauders in a bizarre sense, are all interested in Ascension, the Nephandi want Descencion. They attach themselves to anything that's guaranteed to do great harm to humanity. Shit like the Thule Society and Nazi Germany was crawling with Nephandi. Pentex is just another means to this end. It likely wasn't established by them, but they certainly were on board with its destructive methods.

>>52220931
Way worse then that. They inverted their avatars and practice qlippothic (anti-magic/science basically that severely damages our universe).

>>52220923
99% certain folks were saying that Pentax has the syndicate by the balls, due to the fact that both groups would be wiped by the rest of the Union if all their dirty laundry got out. Normally this would be a MAD stalemate, but Pentecostal is full of doomsday cultists with no self preservation, and are thus the Syndicate has to let Pentax do as it will or the madmen will fuck them both.

Tldr Pentex can't beat Syndicate, but the Union absolutely can and will due to nasty deals, and the Syndicate knows Pentex is crazy enough to doom them both.

So ST advice time.

How do you catch new players up to speed when they join campaign you were running for some time without laboriously explaining everything that happened already about things that their character has no idea about because he just came to town?

I'm talking about in game catching up here

>>52220665
Can I ask for help with this again?

>>52221049
Have the character ask the other characters in character about why their lives are so fucked.

>>52220788
>aswadim

Those guys are fucking terrifying:

(Al-Aswad) The Unnamed
Essence: Primordial
Nature: Incomprehensible
Demeanor: Tyrant/Visionary
Physical: Strength 4/15, Dexterity 6/9, Stamina 10/20
Social: Charisma 9, Manipulation 10, Appearance 8/0
Mental: Perception 10, Intelligence 9, Wits 9
Abilities: Nearly every one except those relying on modern technology
Qlippothic Spheres: Correspondence 6, Entropy 10, Forces 5, Life 5, Matter 5, Mind 7, Prime 8, Spirit 8, Time 5
Backgrounds: Arcane 6, Avatar 10, Destiny 10, Dream 10, Mentor 0, practically all others ∞
Arete: 10
Resonance: (Entropic) Ruin 10
Willpower: 20
Quintessence: Limitless
Paradox: N/A
Resonance: (Entropic) Ruin 10


As the Avatar Storm howled through reality, the Gauntlet fell apart, leaving humanity open and vulnerable. The Unnamed now went on his masterstroke, using the tainted Quintessence harvested from the Storm and Horizon to kill the Alder Bole, the World Tree, banning any Oracles from ever entering the Tellurian. In a last desperate try, the Order of Hermes sought to retake Mus, while the Unnamed and his companions slaughtered the remaining Oracles and Archmages.

With nearly all (if not indeed all) resistance eliminated, the Unnamed summoned his Masters into the Tellurian, completing the Descent of existence and unleashing unimaginable horrors upon the world. The Unnamed himself took up his throne at the blasted ruins of what was once Mesopotamia to rule the ruin of Creation.

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Regarding the Nephandi.

>>52221116
The Unnamed is basically Mage antichrist, and failing to stop his summoning leads to rocks fall.

>>52221056
Bullets do bashing damage. It IS in V20 but not where you'd expect it to be and it was in revised. I had this exact judgement call to make and I looked it up.

It's a flaw in an otherwise rock-solid game.

>>52221141
Thanks. That was confusing the fuck out of me.

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>>52221116

>>52221141
Another flaw; the Clan Gangrel art. Ugly as fuck.

>>52221116
>>52221198

God doesn't even bother with this guy, does he?

>>52221129
I love the Nephandi in the way that Marv loves Nazis in Sin City. You can do anything that you want to them and you don't have to feel bad.

They're not like the Sabbat, who are fighting to save us all from the antediluvians despite their brutal, brutal hypocrisy. They are the flaw in the heart of humanity that was ordained at the creation of the world and you can fuck with them as hard as you please.

>>52221216
Agreed.

>>52221163
Keep in mind that bullets deal lethal to vampires if aimed at the head, which raises the difficulty at 8.

What's the WoD canon on what type of being Michael Jackson was?

>>52221341
Vampire- he got paler with age.

>>52221348
Did his nose fell off because he was a nos(e)feratu?

>>52221341
Daughters of Cacophony can be male, right?

I think he had help with all the vicissitude at least, so he doesn't have to be Tzimisce himself or anything.

As for the infantile interests and probable pedophilia... that can just be MJ, nothing more. It's behaviour, not a special power. Anyone can have derangements.

>>52221386
You don't rot or fall apart as a Nosferatu. That's Samedi.