/hhg/ aka Horus Heresy General

First for Magnus is a faggot.

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Happily taking critique, advice or like-wise experience on my tournament list, thank you for your help so far m8's.

White Scars 3000 points (3000pts)

Allied Detachment (Questoris Knight Crusade) (925pts)

HQ (495pts)
Seneschal
Cerastus Knight-Atrapos
Occular Augmetics

Troops (430pts)
Scion Martial
Questoris Knight Crusader
Rapid-fire battlecannon and Heavy Stubber

Primary Detachment (2075pts)

HQ (500pts)
Legion Praetor
Artificer Armour, Cyber-hawk, Digital Lasers, Iron Halo, Paragon Blade, Power Fist, Space Marine Bike
Legion Command Squad
5x Combat Shield, 5x Power Weapon, Space Marine Bikes

Elites (250pts)
Apothecarion Detachment (85pts)
Augury Scanner, Power Glaive, Space Marine Bike

Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought (165pts)
Twin-linked Autocannon x 2

Troops (830pts)
Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (150pts)
Plasma Cannon

Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (150pts)
Plasma Cannon

Legion Outrider Squad (165pts), Twin-linked Plasma gun

Legion Outrider Squad (365pts)
10x Legion Space Marine Outrider
Melta Bombs (sergeant), Power Glaive
Power weapon x 3

Fast Attack (375pts)

Legion Attack Bike Squadron (100pts)
2x Legion Attack Bike, 2x MultiMelta

Legion Land Speeder Squadron (275pts)
Legion Land Speeder w/ graviton gun x5


Heavy Support (120pts)
Legion Whirlwind Scorpius (120pts)
Dozer Blade


Rite of War
Chogorian Brotherhood

Attack bikes with autocannons
Good idea? No? Poverty choice if u don't want to buy jetbikes?

>FW HH is written as historical records by presumably a Sister of Silence
>In Inferno she omits that the ritual that Magnus did was a message ritual and throws some false speculation. She doesn't draw connection between it and the sudden dire situation on Terra

And you people said that FW books are good sources for the lore. The bitch is not being a good historian.

>>51988580
>allied detachment of two knights goes first
Revealing.

>>51988616
I thought they were written by Alivia "fucked up worse than anyone else in the heresy" Sureka?

>>51988605

Cheeky little fuckers that can hide in the corners of the table and hit side/rear armor of shit. Can also have melta bombs for added utility.

>>51988616
History is plagued by errors, bias and ignorance. The beauty of HH and old 40k lore is the mysteries and lack of clear objective truth in some aspects rather than a streamlined collection of facts and continuity that simply state how things are rather than allowing you to be part of the story.

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>>51988627

I really like my atrapos model.

>>51988649
Laurie Goulding gave the initials of the person writing the FW historical records. It's AK.

The only character we know with those initials is Amendera Kendel.

>>51988679
>Laurie Goldberg

Stopped right there.

>>51988693
He was the editor of both HH FW and BL. Also close friends with the FW crew.

>>51988658

I'll get 9 around the Fall season, thanks.

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>Ywn listen to the screams of the banished when doing the lewds with an Oblivion Cutie as she stares your soul
Why even live?

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Baneblade hull converted into a Gorgon style heavy transport used as a Spartan. Feasible?

>>51988730
Srry anon, I'm not understanding.
So, you want to convert a Baneblade into a Gorgon so it can be used as a Spartan?
Is this because of the Stormlord Assault Transport controversy?

>>51988719
His cancer never really touched the FW books. I'm good.

>>51988667
That was then but now is now.

The issue now is anyone who is reading the FW books is subject to being fed some false information or not getting the whole picture. Somebody should send them a angrily worded letter.

Where dat Ordo Sinister at

>>51988779
He edited their books, brainstormed and coordinated with the FW crew, and went out for drinks.

He is all over those books.

>>51988730
Ah, more right of way disputes in the 31st millenium. When will they learn that a torso and head stuck on a spike is insufficient signage for indicating priority at a junction?

>>51988791
Oh, so he's the one responsible for the shit editing for Inferno? Got it.

>>51988815
I really hope this is true or Angelus-Siege of Terra will be shit.

>>51988815

Actually he was gone before Inferno was edited. In fact, maybe the reason it's so sloppilly edited is because he didn't edit it. Did you think about that?

>>51988828
Not really, he did such a shit job for BL that I wouldn't put it past him. Also, how do you know he was gone before it was edited?

>>51988815
Maybe? He said that his work is done, all the way to the siege of Terra and the end. His replacement just has to do nothing but follow the course that he set. So his legacy lives on with us, anon.

>>51988842
It's fine. BL was a lost cause anyway. Despite claims that Goldberg worked on the FW books, his touch hasn't been noticed. The BL fluff still gets ignored.

I'm jumping ship from 40k to Horus Heresy. Sell me on your legion.

>>51988791
>I was asked by GW to have input on codex lore, this was bullshit as I was far too busy with BL novels to do that, and doing codexes isn't my job at all
>but I totally had a hand in the FW books
It just seems like he's trying to earn nerd-cred with people that love FW but hate GW. It doesn't fucking make sense that he could co-write the FW books but not be able to work on GW codexes. I mean, in that laundry-airing interview he did he explicitly says that working on things that aren't novels isn't something he really knows how to do, but he's able to have creative input on the black books?

>>51988828
Fuck off laurie.

>>51988842
The course being set doesn't mean the editing will or won't be sloppy. I doubt they planned out stuff like "and then we'll get rid of the Misericordia rule without getting rid of the wargear entry"

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>>51988866
Blood Angels.

Best looking legion, best looking primarch. They aren't bitches about it either. Scary motherfuckers all around.

>>51988856
>The BL fluff still gets ignored.

Not really. He had a recent interview where he said that that is all due to miscommunication and chaos of Kirby's era. BL, FW, and GW studio have been restructured (again) so that sort of thing won't happen again.

Rejoice!

>>51988896

>Great news! The Emperor will have abilities faithful to the books and will have teleportation ninjitsu abilities! Look forward to it!

>>51988580
>White Scars
>Dreadnought

>>51988872
They forced him to edit gaming books anyways though. Because his schedule was empty in the system.

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>>51988856
This. No one wants to read a series that has been going on for 11 years anymore.

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>>51988933
Stop that.

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>>51988933

>>51988866
Go to Forgeworld's website and ask yourself which models look the coolest to you? From there I would read up on the ones you thought look the coolest.

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>>51988949
I wonder how the HH series would look on this graph.

>>51988980
I wonder where the stormlight archives series is going to end up on here.

>>51988980

Why is LOTR not in that list?

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>>51988866
Well, you could choose the Best Legion, or one of the eighteen other, lesser legions.

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>>51988980
I don't want to know. That's got to be a punishment for highest degree of Faggotry in this general. Because who ever does is surely going to be damned. Also where is LOTR?

>>51989011
>best legion
But the Luna Wolves brought more worlds to compliance.

>>51989011
>"""""best""""" legion in charge of being able to count
Don't worry smurfette, I know it's not always possible to take your boots off when in power armour, so above 10 is hard.

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>>51989011
so Blackshields?
I mean, we have 18 legions, so the obv best 19th choice is your homebrew sues as the IInd or XIth
Probably IInd because everyone and their dog who does a lost Legion as BS does IInd because... uhm... I honestly don't know.

Also do TS because you know you love Special Characters and Legion-Specifics that are simply superior in every way to their generic counterparts.

>>51989030
Other way around, Luna Wolves (or at least Horus) had the most victories, but the Ultras brough the most worlds to compliance. But despite the vast tally of worlds conquered, none of them ever learned how to subtract one from eighteen properly.

>>51989020

I can tell you that Galaxy in Flames Wordcount is just over 128,000 words

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>>51989030
What contributes more, a blitzkrieg that leaves a string of devastated worlds that need decades to rebuild in it's wake, or a rapid, but tempered advance that turns newly compliant worlds into stable, flourishing contributors to the wider Imperium?

Horus deserved the title of 'Warmaster' but mastery of a single discipline still makes one limited next to a master of many.

>>51988766
Basically have a Spartan that looks like a big crude transport, like the Gorgon.

>Is this because of the Stormlord Assault Transport controversy?

No, because I have a spare Baneblade hull, wouldn't mind a transport and using a stormlord would rule it out from smaller games and compete with my Falchion and Primarch for the LoW slot.

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>>51989076
Welp, we found a guy who's perfect for the job and not a faggot. Congrats on being damned.

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>>51989062
>none of them ever learned how to subtract one from eighteen properly.

I was testing to see if anyone would spot the deliberate error. Congratulations, that's some Ultramarine-like observation you've got there.

>>51989121
who the fuck let Matt Ward in here

>>51989088
and yet your logo still looks like a toilet seat

>>51989121
You just sit there and worry about your theoreticals while every other loyalist legion actually did stuff during the heresy.

>>51989114

Fulgrim's Wordcount is about 130,000

>>51988795
In the grim darkness of the future, there's only one-way streets... going both ways

>>51989167
Someone had to clean up the mess the rest of you made.

Also, inbound Ultramarines was what paniced Horus into trying to bait the Emprah into a duel, so really, Ultramarines are the reason Terra didn't fall. Someone needs to tell Dorn what 'defence in depth' is. 'Impenetrable Fortress' my ass.

>>51988728
Why must you hurt me so, anon ?

>>51988780
They do make it clear that it's an Imperial viewpoint based on various sources.
At least in Inferno the author calls it out. They say that the TS information was from a captured Terminator and that the entire last warp storm sequence and Russ vs Magnus battle was such a clusterfuck of contradictory statements that the writer just went fuck it and used the most senior Sister on the ground as their primary source.

I presume they also expect anyone buying an 80 quid book to be up on the wider lore in general.

>>51989211
>inbound Ultramarines
Inbound Dangles, Swolfs AND (bringing up the rear, as per usual) Ultras

>>51989267
Yes, I'm sure it was the couple of thousand surviving marines from those two legions that put the shits up Horus, not 35,000 Ultras.

>>51989173
I knew you were the right choice.

>>51989278
The Wolves were wrecked, sure, though they were also being led by their oh-so angry primarch, but the DAngles were pretty fine

>>51989267
>Swolfs
The Space Wolves and their primarch were so badly beaten it took the Istvaan-shattered RAVEN GUARD to save them from complete annihilation. This is not an exaggerated misinformation shitpost.

>>51989315
I knew they got smacked, by first the Alphas and then Horus himself, but what's this about the Ravens?

>Possible 'outs' if you don't like your faction fluff:

The book was written after the fact by an Imperial scholar with v.high clearance.
Valdor in particular and the Talons of the Emperor in general come out of it as cool dudes.
Russ is generally portrayed as an arrogant, violent guy who's bloodthirsty nature has to be leavened by Valdor, a somewhat weak commander tactically, whose poor planning is shored up by Valdor's actions, and a bit where he is implied to kill civvies before his 'kill em all' order is covered over by an excerpt from the SW saga.
The TS perspective is based on just reportings of their movements and guesses of their motives, the most detail comes from a captured rando who wasn't even an officer, who had sat most of the battle out trying to be a pacifist and who gave up info under interrogation.
They say they have no fucking idea what Magnus was thinking.
The eyewitness and paper reports of what happens at the end are a total clusterfuck, and deliberate say that they think warp/time fuckery messed up causality (that SW Wolf Guard dying and yet being alive at the same time is used as an example).
The final battle in the warp storm is based on a single testimony.

From that I would read that the author is so high up or has patronage from the Imperial Court that of course the Custodes/Sisters come out golden, they don't like the SW but don't want to totally throw them under the bus, and they have no fucking idea what the TS were up to apart from one dodgy testimony whose heart wasn't even in the fight.

It's deliberately written so we can all have discussions about the reliableness of events.

>>51989343
Don't forget the Thousand Sons psychically raping them at Prospero before getting shredded themselves.

>>51989306
Dark Angels got pretty mauled by daemons while they were lost in the warp, to the point where Lionel abandoned the edict of Nikea to stop them being overrun.

Plus they left a good chunk of their legion on Caliban for the whole of the war.

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>>51989050
>Also do TS because you know you love Special Characters and Legion-Specifics that are simply superior in every way to their generic counterparts.
WAACfagging at its worst, I hope you get the flesh change

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>>51989121
Wew, that's some Imperium Secundus-tier of damage control there, anon :^)

>>51989343
>but what's this about the Ravens?

In the BL book Corax:
Just prior to the final Traitor push to Terra, the space wolves are trapped by 3 legions and Russ is heavily wounded and unable to fight. Corax arrives and his men repeat their Istvaan evacuation feat and save the Space Wolves.

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>>51989461
>We cannot escape, we're blocked off!
>Here I will die
>Maybe I'll leave, though.
>Yeah, that's a better plan. I better leave.

>>51989409
>Plus they left a good chunk of their legion on Caliban for the whole of the war.

Oh god don't remind me that shit penetrated my soul.

>"As Zahariel spoke, the light seemed to go out of Luther’s eyes. ‘Ah, that,’ he said, his voice strangely subdued. To Zahariel’s surprise, Luther turned away, glancing up at the cloudy sky. ‘That was all a lie, brother,’ he said with a sigh. ‘We’ve fallen from grace, and nothing we do here will change that. For us, the Great Crusade is over."

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>>51989473
>For us, the Great Crusade is over.
Pfft, dumb bored legionaries that don't know "leisure time" stands for "training time".
Only when the last eldar has died, all orks are extinct and all of mankind is reunited under Compliance and connected by the Imperial Webway that I totally don't know about, only then will the Great Crusade have ended.

But don't be fooled, dark ones.

War, war never ends.

>>51989461
I mean, I guess the ravens needed something to do, but that's kind of lame for the Wolves.

Really hope their fluff is decent, what with how they get shat on so much.

Though>>51989472 is kind of amusing

>>51989409
>Plus they left a good chunk of their legion on Caliban for the whole of the war.
Still, half a legion, and one that was never small.

>>51989279

Horus Rising 107,000 words
False Gods 105,000 words
Flight of the Eisenstein 106,000
Descent of Angels 107,000
Legion 92,000
Battle for the Abyss 101,000
Mechanicum 111,000
Tales of Heresy 100,000
Fallen Angels 99,000
A Thousand Sons 154,000
Nemesis 135,000
The First Heretic 127,000

I'll do more later.

>>51989513

The war is over for him though.

>>51989513
>Only when the last eldar has died, all orks are extinct and all of mankind is reunited under Compliance and connected by the Imperial Webway that I totally don't know about, only then will the Great Crusade have ended.

Yeah, it was most certainly over for the Fallen Angels. Even if the Heresy didn't happen while they were on Caliban, the Lion still would of left them there. It's stated in Fallen Angels and a few other sources (can't remember which) that the Crusade was in closing years. Thus, I highly doubt the Lion would let them come back to the front of the Crusade.

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>>51989562
He comes back as the Emperor's Stand
>>51989575
He could just send them away like Corax did.
He pretty much banished the Pale Nomads and didn't even try to contact them after Istvaan V, which meant the bulk of the RG was actually in crusade, while their careless civilian-nuking primarch was doing guerrilla.

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>>51989452
>Imperium Secundus

Never heard of it. No idea what you're talkig about, friend.

We came running as soon as we heard the Emperor was in danger.

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>tfw if Russ had been on the Vengeful Spirit he would have finished Whorus with one axe-swing and the Emperor and Sanguinius wouldn't have had to die

>>51989699

Russ fought Horus, and Russ lost. Hard. Horus left him a pile of wounds and broken bones.

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>>51989643
>A primarch with scars who isn't Angron
WTF don't you have IWND, dude?

>>51989699
Idk? Has anybody done mathhammer on Russ vs Horus yet?

>>51988605
Good idea. They've got 2W and can fend for themselves in close combat... which I guess means I'd be tempted to give them multi-meltas, but autocannons are good too. I've heard of them taken as praetor escorts instead of a command squad.

>>51988779
He and Alan Bligh went over all the fluff in the FW books.
>>51988872
His 'thing', even within BL, was to manage to Horus Heresy - basically maintaining continuity, mapping out every legion and character's path, etc. That meant reviewing fluff in the FW HH books and not editing 40k codices (especially not the non-fluff sections of 40k codices).

As an author he did branch out beyond the Heresy.

Before Inferno came out he left - he'll the fluff coordinator for the Star Wars franchise.

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>>51989436
I hope I get the flesh-change too, for having to will myself not to use Raptora Sekhmets en masse

>>51989710

That's because Black Library took away his Armor of Fuck You effects and trillion attacks on the charge.

>>51989716

Russ kills Horus in 4 rounds. Horus kills Russ in 12.

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>>51989699
>tfw if SCORIA had been on the Vengeful Spirit he would have finished Whorus with one Vhodian scepter-swing AND the Emperor AND Sanguinius

>>51989714
Dead don't get scars, silly.

>>51989716
Russ wins.

Russ > Every other Primarch

Emperor's Executioner indeed.

>>51989760
What about Magnus and his Mind Rap-i-I mean Wrath?

>>51988962
It's easy enough to say it's a Terran... never mind that he's taken Chogorian Brotherhood.

What's more awkward is that he's got a fast army with a single slow unit. How did that army get there? Hard to imagine they'd wait for the dreadnought to catch up to them.

>>51989803
If he kites. If Russ gets into CQC with him, he's toast.

>>51989858
Maybe they Drop Podded it in just behind the battlefield?

>>51989858
Friendly reminder Dreadnoughts can deepstrike alongside jetbikes, unlike regular bikes.

>>51989858
he obviously surfed in on the Scorpius like any good Son of the Khan

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>>51989214
Huh, what do you know. Like that Skitarii, Sisters of Silence also hold that pose. Standard witchhunting stance

>>51989716
As a rule of thumb, Russ will murder the fuck out of any other Primarch in single combat. It's more a question of who puts up the best fight before dying.

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>>51989392
Uh what? The Thousand Sons got bamboozled by the Swolfs

>>51988949
That's not true at all. I'd rather they took their time and wrapped up all the loose ends without it feeling rushed like the last 50 pages of a Dan Abnett novel.

>>51989088
That makes Lorgar sound like a brilliant general! I suppose he was, in a way.

>>51989092
Bit strange because the the Spartan's defining feature is being an elongated Land Raider - the shape of its sides is how people identify it. Your creation isn't going to have that shape.

>>51988892
I cannot wait for them to get their book. My painting skills will be ready after finishing my Traitor Legion.

>>51990042
>That makes Lorgar sound like a brilliant general!

I said rapid, not 'conquer one world then spend a decade building pretty not!mosques and executing everyone who doesn't agree your dad is a god'

>>51989516
They had to have the wolfs get their ass kicked hard at least once or twice. They have to justify the Wolves not being completely OP when the Codex drops and the others drop to 1000 marines.

>>51990091
I thought he meant wounding the 500 worlds so they would tend to their wounds instead of abandoning their utterly destroyed homes and going full fleet towards Terra.

>>51990042
>Your creation isn't going to have that shape.

How observant of you.

>>51990063
I really want to see best primarchs model. Hopefully they show it in may.

>>51989710
>Russ fought Horus, and Russ lost.

Where can I find this in the fiction? The SW stories are all over the place.

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>>51990163
I wonder what the Emperor thinks of Sanguinius. He is a literal mutant, but luckily for him it's a pretty mutation and he's beautiful, and being self-conscious of his "otherness" made him struggle and try to relate to the common human, unlike the rest.

Perhaps Sanguinius would have been the third missing Primarch if instead of wings he had a beak, chicken legs and was purple

Has anyone ordered from LegionForge before? I'm curious about their quality. I put a small order in for an upgrade and weapon set. If it's good, I'll probably order more because it was easy and their communication is great.

>>51990160
I'm just saying everyone's going to have a hard time accepting that it's a Spartan.

>>51990200
They never fought

>>51990223
Despite it having a front ramp, quad lascannon sponsons, hull mounted, TL HB, Spartan style track links, etc.?

Would like some help list building and figuring out what I should add.

Sons of Horus using Long March RoW, 2440 points total

HQ
Praetor- Cataphractii termi, paragon blade, digital lasers (175)
Legion Primus Medicae- cataphractii FW one (130)

Elites
Contemptor Dreadnought - 2 Kheres Assault cannons (200)
Rapier Laser Destroy(3) -(165)
Rapier Laser Destroy(3) -(165)

Troops
Tactical Marines(10)- artificer armor, combi-plas, meltabombs, nuncio-vox, rhino (200)
Tactical Marines(10)- artificer armor, combi-plas, meltabombs, nuncio-vox, rhino (200)
Cataphractii Terminators(5)- combi-plas x5, LCx5, grenade harness (235)
Tartarous Terminators(5)- combi-plas x5, LCx5 (225)

Heavy Support
Heavy Support Squad(5)- Autocannonx5 (160)
Heavy Support Squad(5)- Autocannonx5 (160)
Leviathan Dreadnought- Armored Ceramite, Phosphex, Siege Claw, Melta Lance (325)
Dreadnought Drop Pod(100)

-Going to get more Cataphractii Terminators soon or get Justaerian and drop the Cataphractii completely.
-have 20 more marines unbuilt

>>51990024
Yeah sure, but the Sons gave them an ass fucking for 10,000 + Spire Guard vs Sos, Custodes, 100,000 ish dudes.

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>>51990263
Well if it has all that then where's the Baneblade part?

>>51990284
I read the numbers but I already forgot.
I think there were 60k+ TS on Prospero and inflicted 40k+ casualties on the SW, whom also had Custodes, SoS and Sinistrae support.
Zhao Akkad did their part against the OTHER Titan legion the Censure Host brought.

>>51990335
>>51990284
Space Wolf loses are described as "moderate"

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>>51990305
The hull? How is this difficult? Basically imagine pic related, but with 4 lascannons on each sponsons and Spartan style track links (courtesy of Blood & Skulls Industry). That's the basic idea.

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>>51990392
Were they at standard legion size of ~100k ? 33k would be moderate losses to me.
Yes, I Iron Warrior

>>51990401
Oh, that clears things up, thanks.
That does look nice.
It's pretty enough for me to not call it tech heresy, so I'll pretend it's a unique pattern or stuff.

>>51990335
>40k+ casualties
even counting all the wounded 40,000 seems high. SW deaths are listed as "thousands" meaning under 10,000

>>51990425
The size of the Space Wolves and Alpha Legion are the only two that have never been confirmed iirc, but it's been stated that the Wolves are one of smaller legion in a few books

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I was going to ask about the nature of the Sisters' silence (from a mere oath to surgical removal of the vocal chords and permanent attachment of jaw grill) and whether or not they could chuckle...but after the whole conditioning they're stated to have, do they even have emotions beyond Resting Bitch Face and Purgasm?

Do you guys think they gonna make 'Everchosen' version of Horus' rule and/or model?

>>51990493
>purgasm

Thanks, anon.

>>51990335
I'm pretty sure that the Thousand Sons were stuck at 10,000 men. It is said in A Thousand Sons, that Ahriman counts the men the amount of men that survived Propsero and he counted only a tenth of the legion present at the time. Thus, a tenth would leave them with 1,000 sons. I'd say even though they got fucked up hard, they beat the Wolves just as hard with less. Which, shows exactly why Russ, Morty, and Corax where afraid of the 15th.

>>51990425
The death of a third of your legion is a catastrophic loss.

>>51990559
It's fair to point out that they were in an entrenched position. As a rule of thumb, the attackers are expected to suffer heavier casualties when storming the fortifications of defenders who have training and equipment of comparable quality.

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>>51990425
>sending your men to die for the sake of claiming victory
>not sending them to die because you don't like them
Step it the fuck up senpai

>>51990216
What book is that from?

>>51990611
Have to admit though it sure must feel good knowing that before you die, your team will take out more than the other team despite being at a disadvantage in numbers and the other team having big scary fucking allies to bat.

>>51990519
Yeah, he gets god-juiced on Molech after spending thousands of years (relative) in the warp fighting and leading armies of daemons to prove himself to the Chaos gods.

When he comes back, he's implied to basically be a dark version of the Emprah by the Sons of Horus who see him.

>>51990559
>Russ, Morty, and Corax where afraid of the 15th.
No they weren't

>>51990696
I can't say I was a fan of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber twist.

>>51990559
>I'm pretty sure that the Thousand Sons were stuck at 10,000 men.
Thats BL fluff Anon.

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>>51990653
Why is he so relatively ugly? He looks like Fabio if he were stuck in a wind tunnel.

>>51990663

Probably Fear to Tread.

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>>51990593
Again, take into account the fact I'm in IW-mode here. We broke a Hrud migration, lost 1/5th of the legion in doing so and then culled Olympia.
For us, a 55% casualty rate is "acceptable", and at 33% we'd suspect somebody is falling asleep in the trenches.
>>51990559
>I'm pretty sure that the Thousand Sons were stuck at 10,000 men.
Oh, didn't you get the memo?
Inferno retcons all numbers in A Thousand Sons, Prospero and those novels I didn't really bother to read because FW fluff reigns supreme over BL shilling. I'll leave this here, which was posted along the pic I thiiiiink said the Wolves lost several thousand marines (maybe 40000 was the number of wolves comitted to the attack? Not sure about this one).
>>51990663
Fear to Tread. The bit I bothered to read.

>>51990277
Anyone? What is a good way to reliably get termis where you want them aside from nuncio-vox? LRs don't seem to hold enough for a deathstar unless it's a spartan, which costs a ton

>>51990703
Then, why did they have such a fear of the Empyrean and psykers in general.

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>>51990799

You could at least use something readable anon.

What the fuck was the 8th's purpose supposed to be after the crusade? I keep seeing shit like they were supposed to be his vengeance or something, but I can't find a source.

>>51989000
Because that list is shit

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>>51990843
I'm literally searching the archives like a hobo, looking for the other page that has the SW info, my lord.
If I had the better pic I'd post the better pic.
>>51990877
Probably me. Assumptions from HH2, inferred from the Emperor's use of that legion.
There will always be disidents, traitors and nay-sayers

>>51990772
>That's BL fluff anon
The quality of writing is subjective, anon.

>>51990838
They just didn't like Magnus because he was a nerd

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>>51989699
*blocks your path while howling incoherently*

>>51990900

I think I've seen that before, now that I think about it. Was there a picture with that of that one loyal band of NL that were away on terra for whatever reason? Can't remember their name.

>>51990611
>>51990335
>>51990024
>>51990843
Thousand Sons legion strength fag here, my apologies on the misconception of the legions numbers. Still, pretty badass despite being at strength.

>>51990877
>What the fuck was the 8th's purpose supposed to be after the crusade?

Keeping entire systems in line, the more I think about the legions after the crusade I get this idea that the legions were supposed to complement each other and be varying degrees of control or destruction that the Emperor would dispense as the situation evolved.

UM/IF/WB/EC to keep everyone in line within the Imperium on a daily basis
AL to police the dissident elements of the Imperium
NL to make sure those elements are punished and dont spread
If the revolutions arent stopping by the NL or AL then the WE/SW would be the final solution
DG/SoH/WS/RG/WE/SW/IW would be the Crusading armies sent to conquer the Webway with the TS being used as Navigators or specialists within the legions.

>>51990216
He was his second favorite.

>>51990955
Gooooduh, nevermind.

>>51990216
Swallow literally Swallows at writing but that one line
> to prove to the Galaxy that he was superior to every dream of seraphs
Is pretty baller

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>>51990838
They weren't afraid, anon.
See, I don't like roaches -- I see them as living embodiments of filth, so I hate them and kill them where I find them.
Now think of rampant witchery and sorcery as roaches.
Sanguinius and a few other legions were in favour of and ordered librarium. That I could live with.
But then Magnus crashes says "Yeah, UNLIMITED Psyker Works!" and ruins the thing for EVERYONE, and the Emperor says "No more psykers".
And when the Emperor says something, there are no ifs or buts. His Will is Law, unto the limitless void and the last day.

Hell, it was the thing both Dorn and Pert agreed on, that big of a deal it was.

>>51991072
Ah, one of the few original creations in recent memory.

>>51990425
I'm surprised the Big E didn't love on Pert more
> the way this guy is grinding through his own men, I won't need to exterminate HALF as many Marines when the Crusader is over!

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>>51990985
The Crimson Sons.
At least they were away from the main legion force, so they weren't ruined by the Night Haunter and Nostromo's diversity gangs.
>>51991022
I agree with this comment almost 100%
>>51991048
It is a nice excerpt.

>>51991134
>before returning to the legion's fold
>probably killed after the Drop Site Massacre
Erh...ignore that bit.

>>51991072
>Now think of rampant witchery and sorcery as roaches.
But, they aren't. They are different from us. That difference having a potential to cause massive amounts of chaos. That is why they fear them, because the power they possess can have dire consequences to said power's use.

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>>51991079
>my memes don't count
:(

>>51991228
It's a shit meme senpai. Sorry.

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>>51991209
Anon, the DG literally knows no fear. Srsly, they don't fear them witches, they just hate them.
Sorcery is different to sanctioned psychic powers, mainly because of the lack of control, and it's a very irresponsible thing to do because it can create lots of unwanted secondary effects.
You shall teach your kid to not step on the rug with his muddy shoes not because you're afraid of the mud, but because it's simply not a good thing to do and the bloke better learn his actions have consequences.

>>51991134

Ah, that's right. That was kinda bothering me to the point that I wasn't sure if it even existed.

How would a NL Orphans of Betrayal list play? I think having some Crimson Sons would be neat.

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>>51991292
Eh, well, I suppose a bit more of meme research could be useful, then.

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Posting here for additional opinions.

2000pts fluffy Imperial Fists list that really emphasizes what makes the Legion "unique" (cue laughter)

++HQ++
Legion Centurion – 130pts
• Delegatus
• Cataphractii Terminator armour
• Thunder Hammer
• Storm Shield
• Teleport Transponder

Command Squad – 250pts
• (2x) additional Chosen
• Cataphractii terminator armour
• Illiastus assault cannon
• (4x) power fists, (1x) chain fist
• Grenade Harness
• Teleport Transponder

Master of Signals – 115pts
• Artificer armour
• Refractor field

++Elites++
Apothecarion Detachment – 115pts
• (2x) apothecaries
• Artificer armour
• Augury scanner (only 1 to save points)

Terminator Squad – 245pts
• Cataphractii terminator armour
• Illiastus assault cannon
• (4x) power fists, (1x) chain fist
• Grenade Harness
• Teleport Transponder

Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought – 180pts
• Dual Kheres assault cannons


++Troops++
Legion Tactical Squad (2x) – 520pts
• (10x) additional marines
• Sergeant: power fist, artificer armour
• Vexilla

++Heavy Support++
Legion Heavy Support Squad (bunker) – 235pts
• (3x) additional marines
• (8x) missile launchers

++Fortifications++
Wall of Martyrs Defence Line – 80pts
Wall of Martyrs Defensive Emplacement – 40pts
Wall of Martyrs Bunker – 90pts
• Comms array
• Ammo storage

>>51991354
>How would a NL Orphans of Betrayal list play?
Well what do you know.
All models in the detachment are immune to Fear caused by their own Primarch, as well as gaining Hatred, and challengers also gain FnP(4+).
Could be interesting, a force to haunt the Terror itself.

>>51988518
Why are the scans not one PDF?

>>51991483
Because Scanon was nice enough to post stuff people wanted to see as he was scanning. He said he would compile and post it tomorrow (3/3)

>>51991483
Because I haven't made it yet.

>>51991441

Yea, that's what I was thinking. It's a shame that it doesn't really off much except against other NLs, but Orphans would be a big problem for sure. Actually, Orphans only give FnP to challengers if you're not fighting the same legion. Guess I should scratch off that idea.

I'm still curious though, and now I kinda want to do crimson sons. As much as I like painting lightning, it would save me some time. Regardless, what kind of army do you think would be fitting for a loyal NL list?

so this is probably a stupid question, but im playing my first game with custodes on sunday and im confused. are they all on terminator bases?

>>51991718
Yes.

>>51991718
Are you proxying them?

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>>51988866
>Best CQC Legion
>Best Master Apothecary
>Sworn Brothers with Iron Warriors
>S6 Tactical Marines
>+1 WS when fighting in a challenge
>Free Chainaxes

What more could you want.

>>51991483
Because you touch yourself at night.

>>51991740

Oh yea, well... I get Fear and... WE'RE GONNA BEAT YOU UP AND TAKE YOUR STUFF! Oh, you got a few friends? Pft. Whatever loser. We'll give you a break this time.

>>51991622
I've got a 3,000 point shattered legion list with Raven Guard and Night Lords.
I used the used terror squads and night raptors under the assumption that just because they stayed loyal, they'd still use terror and ambush as a major weapon. Just for the Emperor instead of for a boner.

I also used a Leviathan in a drop pod. It just feels right.

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>>51988866
We make heavy bolters good, have stasis munitions, and won't have any unique units for another 6 months.

Also red stripes on our helms, mon.

>>51991740
a better primarch.

I wish russ's armor instead granted -1 attack with minimum 1 instead of to hit. It seems match his power level closer to the fluff
Fully buffed Angron can beat him 1v1 due to higher attacks while Magnus gets chumped down as he's no better than a praetor when it comes to attack numbers.

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>>51991777

>WE'RE GONNA BEAT YOU UP AND TAKE YOUR STUFF!

>>51986847

I mean the Emperor's specifically commanding that 25 be given to him and the guy in charge of the Legio Sinister specifically refers to 20, but there's no indication of a refusal to deliver 5.

I get that it might be reconciled by other fluff and just skirted here for convenience, but it seems kind of weird that 5 whole Warlords just disappear and the Emperor isn't bashing Kelbor-Hal's rear exhaust port in over it.

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>>51991813
>Forgetting the best part.

>>51991867
Polaris, Borealis, Occidentalis and Orientalis each have 5, I suppose the 5 in the Imperial Palace are extra-secret?

>>51991867
Most likely the other 5 titans from the Oblation were either used for another purpose or there was a 5th Chamber of the Ordo that was lost with the webway.

>>51991483
Lurk more newfag.

>>51990216
The Emperor made him that way. He made all the Primarchs; none of their deviances would be unknown to the Emperor other than those they learned by being raised beyond his control.

That's the whole reason the gods scattered them: if they were kept on Terra - even if they were just blank-minded creatures living in pods used to stabilize the gene-seed of the legions they were used to create - the Emperor would have an incredible advantage compared to the position he actually found himself in with their loss.

>>51991789
Piggybacking off this post:

What's some weird/funny shattered legion combos, /hhg/?

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>>51991740
Muh nigga

>>51991982
>Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists

>the fists are traitors
>the warriors are loyal
>they meet in the middle and go bittershield
>they have debates about whether they're the Iron Fists or Imperial Warriors

>>51991789

I keep wanting to get Night Raptors, but always back out because a fully kitted out squad is like 550 points, and that's before you add in apothecaries and shit. How do they perform? Also, how did you go about modeling them? The kit looks surprisingly limited.

What RoW do you use? I keep falling back to Terror Assault because I like mixing drop pods and foot soldiers, but I usually end up with less than I feel I should. My Terror Assault has a podding vets and a melee contemptor in a Claw, which is about it. Then, I feel like I feel like I'm missing out on taking advantage of Talent for Murder.

I guess the Levi makes for some serious AT.

>>51991997
could I make this with the mk2 world eater torsos/heads with a calth box mk4? or would the sizes be totally off?

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>>51991849

That's terrible!

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>>51988866
>Actually painted grey
>Can take pet dogs
>Viking Viking the Jarl Frost
>Needed to have Commissar Legionaries to keep the marines in line
>One of our SCs woke up one day, looked at the guns available to terminator characters and said "Fuck it, I'm taking a Heavy Bolter."
>He also has functionally 2 warlord traits

>>51992046
>>He also has functionally 2 warlord traits
Remember when special characters were fluff instead of auto-include guys around whom you're expected to build your army around, lest you're actively shooting yourself in the foot?

Yeah, me neither, but fuck them anyway.

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Over three quarters of the book in six hours. I'm fucked. Expect the full zip files in a few hours.

>>51992010
I'll be totally honest, this is something I'm developing, so I've never actually played it complete.My leviathan is en route from China, but my Night Raptors are a combination of the kit, bits of chaos raptors, regular assault marines, and greenstuff.

I have played previous versions against 40k armies, mostly Eldar and Deldar, and they shred them like no tomorrow (except when they don't like Banshees. Fucking Banshees.), in part because with the packs I outnumber them.

With list I'm putting together, it's Terror Assault and because it's shattered legions, I use RG for things like rapiers that I want infiltrating into position. Essentially, everything in the list infiltrates.
I have enough experience with Alpha Legion to know that that makes for a good aggressive strategy and it should translate well to a list with a pair of hammers in the Raptors and Dark Furies, but I don't think it;s strictly optimal. It also gets around the issues of morale endemic to Night Lords.

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>>51992104

>>51992026
Nope, it absolutely works. I haven't done it myself, but I have the bits around and it looks fine.

Still not a huge fan of the caedere renissium on standard line units though.

>>51992085

I do. Then the 5th edition SM Codex happened and characters became the norm rather than the exception. I remember when you could only use characters at certain point limits and/or needed permission, and even then, they weren't auto-include.

If I wanted to play a game that mandated special snowflake named characters in every game, I'd play warmachine.

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>>51992104
Many blessings to you Scannon.

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>>51992104
You're the realest nigga, Scanon.

>>51992131
Lets be honest, anon, most people just use them for the rules and make them Their Dudes. I bet 99% of Pasks are just a line on the army list saying "Tank Commander w/ Pask upgrade" or something to that effect.

>>51990111
I never thought of that as a problem; they split, but never had a huge deal to do with the Codex, and their companies according to War Zone Fenris are anywhere between 100 and 200 marines each even in M41, but highly variable.

Assuming this reflects either a grudging acceptance that the effort of maintaining a legion-sized force without the express permission of the Emperor isn't worthwhile in the face of a hostile Imperium, or that it represents attrition of a large body of warriors with relatively unstable gene-seed and a propensity for getting killed young as a form of training, and assuming that the split with the Wolf Brothers was a token gesture creating a pair of similarly-sized and similarly-structured Chapters, they could easily have numbered 5,000 survivors (or more - out on detached duty, on endless crusades, simply unreported or concealed as fleet crews aboard the unusually large Space Wolves (and presumably Wolf Brothers') fleet and so on and so forth) at the time of the split, becoming a pair of Chapters 2.5 times codex strength, each split across 12 or 13 Great Companies effectively operating as independent commands.

Hell, imagine you're Roboute Guilliman. Are you really going to stop jerking off in front of a mirror long enough to pick a fight with Leman Russ *after* he makes his token gesture indicating that he accepts your principle that no single command should have the power that Horus wielded? Remember, you already know at this point that something weird is going on with the Dark Angels and you're not entirely sure who to talk to about that because Johnson isn't returning your calls; you also know Dorn isn't about to back you up because he gets that shit-eating grin of his whenever someone asks what happened to his unusually swole Templar Brethren and whether he *really* lost that many dudes in the Iron Cage, the vampire boys are just about holding it together, the RG, IH & Salamanders are basically gone and Khan is being a dick.

>>51991930
>>51991937
I guess. There are supposed to be those ones protecting Eternity Gate from the outside, so presumably there were some on the other side of it too.

>>51992177

Not in my experience, but that still tickles my autism something fierce. I doubt I could properly vent my frustration without turning into a spazz about it.

>>51992214
30k is a bit of a strange place to have that problem, seeing that it's very character driven from the get-go.

>>51992085
No.

Literally no, and Space Wolves were where it began, back in 2E. Cool new models, cool new rules. Literally every game would include at least one of them (and back then a Terminator squad started at around 300 points, so even in smaller games players would literally give up high-survivability 3++ on 2D6 elites with guns that were insane for the time in order to field Ragnar Cunting Blackmane or Gnarls Barkcaller or that goddamn Wolfbox and its goddamn assault cannon).

I mean, I remember RT too, but even then with the last three or four years you're talking about the same kind of thing - it was always building to this. Even before named characters, there were auto-include HQ builds and hoo boy howdy would you not believe the frequency with which ancient, irreplaceable suits of much-vaunted sacred Tactical Dreadnought Armour were suicidally teleport assaulted into the middle of your deployment zone to fuck with you. When those boys turned up the game was over unless you had 100 gretchin or 3x more lascannons than Terminators.

>>51992126
I'm thinking about getting calth marines for sniper vets so it would work out I think.

>>51992131
>If I wanted to play a game that mandated special snowflake named characters in every game, I'd play warmachine.

Fucking this. I want my dudes to be my dudes. But like >>51992177 said, I can still fluff my World Eaters as having a Primus Medicae with Gahlan's rules.

>>51991815
Or -1 WS

>>51992180
>& Salamanders are basically gone
Salamanders are so far gone that Vulkan's feelings on the Codex and Second Founding are purely academic. There aren't enough Salamanders left in the galaxy to make a second chapter.

>>51992117

>I'll be totally honest, this is something I'm developing, so I've never actually played it complete. My leviathan is en route from China,
I have a few smaller things coming from two different places (china and ukraine), so I know how that is. Depending on how they are, I will probably splurge a few hundred with tax money. Part of the reason why I'm curious.

>but my Night Raptors are a combination of the kit, bits of chaos raptors, regular assault marines, and greenstuff.
How are they equipped? Do you go full power weapon or just some? I was thinking like 5 glaives, 5 claws, and 5 axes, though mixing glaives and claws is probably redundant. I am thinking about a getting a bunch of MKV assault Marines, too.

>I have played previous versions against 40k armies, mostly Eldar and Deldar, and they shred them like no tomorrow (except when they don't like Banshees. Fucking Banshees.), in part because with the packs I outnumber them.
Yea, banshees sound like a pain unless they fail their fear test.

>With list I'm putting together, it's Terror Assault and because it's shattered legions, I use RG for things like rapiers that I want infiltrating into position. Essentially, everything in the list infiltrates.
That sounds cool, actually.

>I have enough experience with Alpha Legion to know that that makes for a good aggressive strategy and it should translate well to a list with a pair of hammers in the Raptors and Dark Furies, but I don't think it;s strictly optimal. It also gets around the issues of morale endemic to Night Lords.

I do want to run a 20man tac blob as an anvil, but don't know how to properly execute it in a list with the right RoW.

So now that Inferno has been here for a while, when does book eight come out? :^)

>>51992443
Nov-Dec this year or next Jan-Feb.

>>51992291

Yea, but that is more or less expected from 30k. When I started 40k, that was one of the things I really liked. I could make a cool leader with a bunch of wargear options. Now, normal HQs are like "This guy has a gun or maybe a different gun. And a sword! He's yours for 150pts!" and special characters are "This guy has murder armor with the Killatron 9000 and makes all your troops unkillable! Take him for 160pts!"

People can fluff them as their own shit, but a turd with paint on it is still shit.

I like 30k because even though special characters are arguably a major part of it, they're not required to play a unique army despite the fact that everyone is essentially using the same Codex.

>>51992387
I usually go half chainglaives and half regular cc weapons. That's mostly because I don't want to wipe them out in my turn. I usually do anyways, but at least, in theory, I won't erase that 20 man tac squad in one turn and thus can end combat on my opponent's turn and move on to the next assault.
I tend to target raptors at non-elite units because they're AP3 and aren't faster/harder to hit than normal marines.
Banshees are just faster than you are and there's not much you can do about it because they've got ap3.

Well, for me, a 20 man tac blob is easy-- if I want it aggressively positioned, I just make it RG so it infiltrates, but if you're going straight NL, you'll probably want some sort of transport, which means that you're either spending your HS slot on it, or getting a Storm Eagle, which works pretty nicely. I've had good results with them and despoiler squads.
Other option is to make them 10 man and use the dreadclaws as dedicated transports.

Easy to paint
> raven guard, iron hands, dark angels
Moderately easy to paint
>death guard, space wolves, white scars, iron warriors, world eaters
Average
> night lords, ultramarines, word bearers, blood Angels, sons of horus,
Tricky
>thousand sons (metallic), alpha legion (metallic), emperors children
Nightmare
> imperial fists

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>>51992556
>black armor
>easy to paint
>pained laughter.jpg

maybe IH and DA, but matte black without looking shit is hell.

For you poorfags without hookups, there appear to be recasts on eBay right now.

Approximately when - timeline and BL novel-wise - the Traitors give up being 'renegade' per se and start becoming 'Chaos?'

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>>51992301
>sniper vets
>world eaters

If you put renissium helmets on them, I'll personally hunt you down and break your fingers

Does a reserve roll of 1 always fail?

Trying to see if it's worth stacking modifiers

>>51991323
Big E should have sent the Death Guard to fuck up the Thousand Sons instead on Space Wolves.

Morty and Typhus would have wrecked Fagnus and his Transexual Sons up.

>>51992790

Calth officially?

>>51992839

>Morty and Typhus would have wrecked Fagnus and his Transexual Sons up.
>implying TS wouldn't have just magically wrapped them up in a ball and put it through the equivalent of a microwave

TS were defeated by their own entrenchment tactics against a rapid reaction strike force with Custodes reinforcements.

>>51992773

There have been recasts for a while (gave up on a significant TS recast lost yesterday) but you're a damn fool if you end up buying chink goods on eBay instead of just going to the source.

Could TS have won if Magnus didn't blocked their vision and shit? Or Tzeench still would have pulled fleshchange and doomed them

>>51992790
Depends on which legion.

Emperor's Children had their defining Chaos moment with the Maraviglia, World Eaters probably starting turning full Chaos after Angron transforms at Nuceria, Death Guard had the Terminus Est. Legions like the Iron Warriors and Night Lords arguably never went "Chaos", and I think the Sons of Horus probably would have turned during the Dark Compliance shit.

>>51992358
Then it's just -1 to hit again.

Reason why I want the -1 attack is because I want Russ to beat Magnus and lose to Angron which is what happened in fluff. Angron after getting stacked kill counts won't give a fuck about losing 1 attack while Magnus who only has 4 attack by default will feel his melee go down by 25%

>>51992981

Iron Warriors went Chaos when they invented the Obliterators
Night Lords were practically wholly devoted to Chaos in spirit if not in practice by the time of Konrad's death in the house of centipede men

>>51992790

Pretty much right before the battle of Terra the non WB rebels become all eight point stars, bad teeth and spikes.

WE had a slower, longer fall.

Apparently iron warriors go from bitter to consorting with daemons pretty abruptly.

EC were nearly their 40k selves as of Path of Heaven, so maybe a bit earlier than the battle of Terra.

Sons of Horus we don't know exactly, but they do start getting their own possessed before Terra.

Alpha Legion were never consorters with daemons and simultaneously they had gal vorbak as soon as the WB did. Who knows

We don't know about night lords really.

Thousands sons consorted with daemons while still loyal

>>51992961
Still would've lost since Tzeentch has the ultimate plot power.

Now barring Tzeentch and Magnus's silence, TS probably would win the battle and lose the war. Given how the ashes of Prospero were later crawling with WEs and other traitor forces, TS would have been wiped out regardless.

>>51993050

>Sons of Horus we don't know exactly, but they do start getting their own possessed before Terra.

Probably around the time Horus got his power up in the Chaos-powered hyperbolic time chamber. He probably picked himself up some couple hundred chosen possessed sidekicks along the way.

>>51992961
>>51993070

If Magnus didn't play ball with Tzeentch's plans, then Tzeentch would have just flesh changed the Legion wholesale and forced their destruction anyway. The flip side of this scenario is Magnus fully rebels against Tzeentch, assists in the purge of Prospero and of his own legion, and surrenders himself to Russ for judgment. From there, it would be inevitable that Magnus would forsee the coming events of the heresy and would, willingly or by force, assist the loyalists in impeding Horus.

>>51992530

Infiltrating tac blobs sounds fun. It's a shame they wouldn't get TfM, which is the joy of NLs having 20 in the first place. I was thinking of using a Vigilator to scout them (iirc they can infiltrate because everyone needs it). A 20man tac blob with apoth and Vigilator sporting trophies for fear sounds fun. I'd rather not split them into 10s, but claws do sound fun. The only one I have is for my murder contemptor, though.

They get normal pods in a TA, but needing 3 terror squads kills that idea, and I don't have the points for a full orbital. Maybe I'll do a PotL with Teleporting termies, a big blob, raptors, and the murder machine.

>>51992556

>tricky
>thousand sons

Base spray coat black, spray paint leadbelcher, apply nuln oil wash (gloss), paint soulstone red on armor, apply sepia whatever wash where necessary, paint silver+gold+black layers, paint soulstone green eyes, apply decals.

>>51992790
The Word Bearers started following the Chaos gods nearly 50 years before the Heresy (BL: The First Heretic). They pretended to be loyal while planning to get Horus on their side that whole time. At Isstvan V they may have already been using warp-borne powers.

The Emperor's Children turned renegade and Chaotic roughly at the same time. (BL: Fulgrim)

The Thousand Sons turn to Chaos right after their Tzeench-funded escape from Prospero.

The World Eaters haven't turned yet in the BL series, just Angron so far and it wasn't even his idea (BL: Betrayer). So... sometime shortly before Terra.

The Death Guard are split; Typhon should already be on the way to becoming Typhus, but the bulk of the legion is with Mortarion. He knows all about Chaos and has started dabbling in it, but he thinks he can use it without fully turning (as of BL: The Path of Heaven). In old fluff, he gives in to Nurgle when his fleet gets stranded in the warp on the way to Terra.

The Alpha Legion and Night Lords never really turn to Chaos, though they have members dabbling in things.

I have no idea when the Iron Warriors start using daemon engines.

Cool alternative titles for a Death Guard chaplain?

>>51992799
>sniper vets
>outflanking
>apothecary
>crimson path
> 4+ FNP
you don't?

I'll be using the ones without the bunny ears if that helps untrigger your autism

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What head is this? Is it the skull from the NL contemptor or something?

>>51993289
I disapprove, but thanks for your consideration knightanon?

>>51993279
Crypt-something

>>51993279
Keeper of the Tally, or Deadspeaker.

He doesn't inspire his compatriots, he just watches them die and keeps track of how it happened. The in-game benefit is them trying to outdie each other in some over-the-top way to prove how tough they are.

>>51993175
Can you show me the result of that? Unless it's infinitely better than my usual Retributor gold, Tamiya Clear red, Carraburg crimson combo, I'm thinking that that's too many steps.

>>51993365
>>51993279
Cryptkeepers. When morale needs to be reinforced among the troops, they get tales from them.

>>51988782
Busy being demoted to Warlords.

Although this is just the 30k version and the only parts of the Ordo Sinister we see deployed.

>>51993347
>Is it the skull from the NL contemptor
Yes.

>>51993516

I think a Psi-Warlord is scarier than a standard Imperator.

>>51993458

Unfortunately I can't because I'm a lazy piece of shit. However, from what I've seen, Tamiya Clear Red over a metallic color is equal to or better than Soulstone Red. Plus airbrushing is simply better for obvious reasons. Airbrushing isn't an option for me.

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>>51988866
The XVI in general
Why?
Because you have shooting, close combat and reserve bonuses built into you legion astartes rules
You're THE Spear Tip legion
They're a fairly bro-tier legion
Unique aesthetics in both incarnations
You earned your name in your first true engagement
You won the very first battle of the great crusade, Luna
You were the Emperor's orginal wolves
You don't take shit from people
Horus is a bro
Horus was actually pretty humble about stuff
Horus let you keep your legion name, unlike most other primarchs
Because you like Mad Max, Fist of the North Star, and savage romans
Because you like being friends with other legions second only to the salamanders
White and Black, Black and Red, and Sea Green all are great color schemes
Top Knots
Horus Rising, False Gods, and Galaxy in Flames are some of the best HH books


>>51991022
Yeah, that's pretty much what the legions were gonna fall into relatively assuming the great crusaded "ended"
>Death Guard population control
You know you want to see it

>>51993757
That pic and writeup are by far the best examples of legion salesmanship I've ever seen. Congrats.

>>51993458
>>51993744

In addition, its possible to just skip black primer and go straight to retributor armour (unless you're painting pewter).

>>51993757

Thats cool brah but I can spam magical termies as TS and I'll never have to buy a transport vehicle.

>>51993757
>Horus is not a bro. He is a bully.

>>51993757
See what he has done to Raven Guard and Legio Atarus.

>>51993942
>not being as alpha as us
your bully is my bro

>>51993942

Horus was the class president who was introduced to crack cocaine one day and was influenced into joining the drug trade, and then eventually became Scarface.

>>51993757
Horus and his Wolves outright stole other Legions' deeds. They never participate Rangdan Xenocides and earn all glory, glamour and fame in exchange of brutalize of Dark Angels and Space Wolves.

>>51993757
Betrayal outright states Chtonian gang culture contaminates and corrupts noble savage warrior mien of original Terran Luna Wolves.

>>51993958
Luna Wolves deteriorate into Sons of Horus. And during the Heresy, SoH liberally use other Legions as meat shields, cannon fodders and sacrificial lambs.

>>51992026
That's one of the same Mk II torsos that FW makes, the writer apparently just didn't notice and saw that most of the armour was Mk IV. So yeah.

I'm with >>51992126 on the caedere remissum too, they always seemed like more of a veteran/officer thing before the Legion went 100% Khorne:

>>51993942
If Horus and his bullies are bro, then we could call mafia Consigliere are our 'bro'.

Why the Emp appoints Horus as Warmaster? Simple. He is mafia in 40k. And more than half among Primarchs are nothing more than corrupted, power hungry, vainglorious bullies and criminals and madmen and hypocrites, just like Horus.

And that is reason why noble and pure Sanguinius or introvert Lion or upright and straightforward Guilliman and Dorn could not become Warmaster in the Big E's eyes.

>>51994025
I'm trying to name my Praetor after Vito and Michael Corleone from The Godfather, if that counts. Kor Leonine just doesn't cut it.

>>51994082

If Space Wolves can have Murderfang, then you can have Kor Leonine.

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>>51988866
Raven Guard
Adaptable, flexible, plenty of great modelling opportunities depending on the time period. They will play differently from game to game depending on the choices you make, and the basic legion special rules mean you can run many different scenarios with the same basic units. Also Corax is a strong independent primarch that don't need no bodyguard

It is even possible to run tanks with them, but is best done accompanied by a small fortune in resin jetbikes

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>>51990787

No fujoshi on staff.

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Yay or nay for this finish on my Alpha Legion

>>51994379
jesus, too shiny, how are they going to sneak around whilst they shine like custodes?

I really liked Horus portrayed in Horus Rising, but man was so disappointed after reading that he's just an glory-whore asshole .

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>>51992104
ALL GLORY TO THE SCANANON

>>51994379
How about finishing a test model first? So many AL players are amazed by doing a metallic blue scheme they think people give a shit about a basecoat.

>>51993757
Wait, what shooting bonus?

>>51994435
at ranges below 12" the get +1 bs
Fury of the Legion at 12" is fucking disgusting

>>51994075
>upright and straightforward Guilliman
>implying

Even in 40k, majority of xenos have bolter-proof (read: 4+ or 3+) armored basic infantry.

IIRC Great Crusade period xenos were much more powerful, deadly and hard to kill.

In this regard, isn't using bolter kinda pointless/useless? Why did they use bolter?

>>51994075
politics

Horus was better at PR with the more disparate primarchs than guys like lion, guilliman, dorn, etc. Getting the legions to work together was most important part about the warmaster position. The only guy who could take the slot instead would be Sanguinius.

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>>51992104
You're a gift we do not deserve.

>>51994508

Majority of tough xenos empire was broken. Bolter was easier to manufacture, maintain, and support. And until the heresy, the demand for volkite dropped off rapidly because the tough xenos empires were broken.

>>51994508
>Why did they use bolter?
Same reasno why they use lasgun aka flashlight.
Bolter is powerfull weapon and it's easier to manufacture(weapon and ammo) than other types of weapon(volkite, melta, plasma).

What Legion is best if I want to run a bunch of dreadnoughts?

>>51994665
Doesn't matter because dreadnoughts don't have the Legiones Astartes rule. Just pick a Legion and the Fury of the Ancients RoW and realize what a stupid choice you've made.

>>51994665

Iron Hands.

>>51994690
How so?

>>51994517
So question is still remaining: Why the Emperor appoints Horus instead of Sanguinius, who is a born leader and Primarch of the highest caliber?

>>51994753
sanguinius had no ambitions

>>51994753
Because his wings were a sign of mutation and certain populations would not trust him.

>>51994753
Sang is not as good as Horus as a politician

he is too compassionate and have too much empathy so he wouldn't be able to make tough decisions that would cause problems with or among his brothers

Horus is a snake so he wouldn't have those issues

>>51991740
Wait you don't have to buy chainswords?
Awesome

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NZ/Legio-Custodes-Contemptor-Achillus-Dreadnought

>>51994758
Alan Bligh strongly implied Sang's angelic aspects are intended by the Big E himself and he takes great pain to make IXth outstanding. Sang and his Legion is really special snowflake project from the inception. So 'mutation' is out of question.

What really mattered is Sang's purity, empathy, compassion and general lack of ambition. Hell, he even ABDICATE from Warmaster candidates, because he did not want to be supreme commander of Imperium nor wish to reign over his own brothers.

If Sang did not resign, then outcome may be differed as we know...

>>51994852
Sexy

>>51994852
Fuck, that gold and black color scheme looks so good.

My question is though why wouldn't they just sell body and weapon arms separately like other Contemptors. Is there any difference in the structure?

>>51994898
Who cares what Alan Bligh intended for Sang? Alan Bligh didn't come up with the character.

>>51994903
Just different weapons and heads.

So which one is better. The Shieldnaught or the Spearnaught?

>>51994905
>You misunderstand. What I mean is, if Sang's wings are Emperor's design, then who dare to decry his 'mutation'?

>>51994931
Do you think the general population of the Imperium is privy to the Emperor's designs? The first thing people will think when they see his wing is mutation, Primarch or not.

>>51994938
Then the Emp declare Sang is the Angel of the Imperium and he made his from to resemble angels of ancient myths and legends.

>>51994948
Wouldn't that go against the Imperial Truth?

>>51993757
>False Gods one of the best HH books
Everything else you said is legit, but come on now.

>>51994948
Now you're just grasping at straws.

>>51994963
Yes

>>51994996
to be fair the bar is pretty fucking low

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>>51988866
Angron is the best and WE rules are pretty good if you ignore cadere weapons

>>51993020
They didn't invent Obliterators though.

>>51995126
Nobody did, Obliterators kind of happend I think

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This is taking longer than I thought, I apologize for the delay but this will have to wait until tomorrow. Please accept my humblest apology.

>>51995012
But 30k Imperium already has a plethora of contradictions against tenets of the Imperial Truth...

>>51995271
it's ok, no apologies necessary

we are already grateful that you have been doing this for so many books now

>>51995271
Never apologize for anything, you are a treasure.

>>51995271

Don't you dare apologise, you're sacrificing much for our benefit. Take as much time as you want, and to hell with the seagulls.

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>>51994420

>>51992486
>I like 30k because even though special characters are arguably a major part of it, they're not required to play a unique army despite the fact that everyone is essentially using the same Codex.
Nothing is ever required, anon, but still ALL Alpha Legion lists invariably have either Dynat or Skorr as their warlords

>Phosis T'Kar
>specializes in TK

Har har har

>>51995271
Some interesting shit right there, disregarding the "everything is orchestrated by Tzeentch for Ahriman blurb", would it be possible that the Sons used warpfuckery and time dilution stuff to end up with such a number of marines during the siege? I'm guessing that they were all still marines during this point and the rubric hadn't taken place yet.

>>51992839
I want to think so, even if the power creep between HH1 and HH7 ft 2W ML2 Sekhmets or Iron Hand termies bullshit say otherwise.

Also, don't call for a viral bombing. Prospero has only one city and it's protected by Void, Kine and even Geller shields, gungan style. It's just not gonna work.

>>51992909
Pfft what, you want to battle the Custodes and Wolves in the open, instead of forcing them through the defenses? Surrounded by psyker predators that will only attack you because of the Sisters?

Nah.

>>51995464
The Rubric would make explaining the reinforcements more easy, as there have been examples of TS sorcerers 'respawning' rubricae in the fluff.

But with the amount of warp-fuckery involved it would be strange if it was possible to explain everything

>>51995436
its because like most special characters they bring too good stuff for their points, "oh I can pay ...10 points more or whatever to pick my warlord trait and get fearless and fnp+3 last turn? yes ples.

>>51992839

the point was that Emp DIDN'T want to fuck up the TS.
Yiffs were sent to bring them back to Terra NOT kill them

Been reading through the Custodes rules, and it's a bit odd that the Terminators have worse saves than the basic guys, since I can't see the options for them to take Praesidium Shields. Guess they're glass cannon, but it still seems they severely lack shooting and horde-clearing capabilities. They are very very good at wrecking Legions in melee if they get there, though.

>>51995528

Well, it's like that for the Legions. The Auxilia, Mechanicum and such all have sidegrade characters. MaSade loses out on a bunch of wargear and a Wtrait pick, Draykavac is pretty much just an alternative Magos Prime option, Satarael and Decima are versatile but expensive and squishy, and Scoria denies you Cyber-Occularis for smashy skills.
Even Valdor and Krole aren't much to write home about, really.

>>51995563
>2+
>4++
>T5
>2W
>"glass cannon"
Mechanicum please go.

>>51995563
>Custodes terminators
>T5 W2 2+ 4++
>glass cannon