/osrg/ OSR General - Keeping Things Casual Edition

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>>51863638

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>>51863660

>>51863660
>>51863667

Are you really this thirsty for submissions still?

How often should I be rolling for encountering roaming monsters?

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>>51863805

Once every 10 minute turn on a d6. Roll of 6 means monster.

This means the party will (usually) get one wandering monster encounter per hour of exploration. Also makes it awfully hard to lay down to rest in the dungeon so it stops asshole players who like to do 15 minute adventuring days.

>>51863786
I don't even think that's the guy who runs the zine, because there hasn't been an update since July of last year. I submitted stuff before vol 1. came out it got accepted, so I can't imagine that they're still looking for content after so long.

If the dude -is- looking for content I'd expect to see a post on the blogspot.

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>feel like doing something unorthodox
>work on my modern fantasy version of OSR
>have to make new rules for new concepts
>trying to establish itself as a setting due to uncharted territory
>yearn for something simpler
>feel like doing something traditional
>work on my traditional high fantasy OSR
>have to rework rules smartly to make it stand out and fluff up the setting
>trying to establish itself as a setting due to a very generic genre
>yearn for something different
>feel like doing something unorthodox...

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>>51863638
>What system are you playing right now? How's it working for you?
Sadly I'm using 5e, though I scrapped the feats and skills. Only magic items the party has is one set of magical chainmail and a +1 sword (they keep forgetting they have a blessing from a fey demigoddess that transforms their weapons to be magical for a moon's cycle and they have been raiding Giant's lairs and nearly dying for their effort).

Next system though is LotFP with the addition of guns. Running World of the Lost and can't wait! Here's the modified map of Africa I'm using!

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You love your retroclone, but-

We had a blast today. We made a party of naked, showrtbow wielding Thieves. We bought some tools, a couple of starved bunnies and a bunch of carrots.
>We used bunnies as trap probes. Throw carrot to other side of room, bunny goes. Drop carrot to your feet, bunny comes back. That's a 56% chance of a trap-free room.
>We were light, and we were unencumbered, therefore we were fast. So we ran.
>We had lots of spare change, so we bribed.
>We were thieves, so we stole. God bless unguarded treasure.
>DM gives XP for survived encounter (this is btb) so we got XP from most encounters.

The thing is, Moldvay has rules for this style of play, and they are FUN. Running is limited and tires you - run 5 min and rest 5 min. You have to plan your rests according to wandering monsters checks. Etc, etc.

Does your clone allow this kind of play? Would it be fun?

>mfw we are 600 XP away from 2nd level

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So I've been changing how gun rules work for Garden now, splitting up the Receivers and Munitions for the next edition. I also added a new one.

Trouble is; does anybody here have any imput on the changes? Does it feel better or worse to have an additional choice or does it fail to add anything important? I sort of wanted each category to have similar abilities as the old set receiver system.

Part of the fun of the new changes was so you could do nonsense like make a revolving shotgun or break action pistol, but I'm not sure if it really adds anything of value. All the gun stocks, barrels, and flaws are the same for now.

>>51864187
yeah I'd have to say the new system looks better

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So I played with this idea a little while back in other threads, but I'd like to get some good feedback on it now.

Basically; I have a minor gripe with OSR games. Essentially everyone in a class is 'good' at doing one particular thing, but everyone else CAN do that thing, it's just the one class is the best at it.

Fighters are the best at fighting, but everyone can fight. Clerics are the best at healing (having healing spells), but everyone can heal (first aid skills and/or magic potions and such). Thieves are the best at sneaking around, but everyone can do it.

The problem them comes to the MU and the Cleric's more spontaneous spells; NOT everyone can do these things. I sought a way to eliminate this issue while keeping the classes in place.

Basically I want to create a sort of basic, low end magic item shop that functions as a useful 'magic' resource. For example, *anyone* can go into a magic item shop and buy a blasting wand that shoots little fire sparks, and anyone can use it. Little villager kids could use it if shown how. BUT the Wizard is the best at it, and gets the most out of it. Up to an including being able to getting more powerful versions of magic effects from the items, manipulating spells effects, or even conserving and getting more charges from them then anyone else could.

How does /OSR/ like the idea? I think a magic item shop like this fits really well if you're going for a high fantasy aesthetic and feel to the world. I don't think it detracts anything if people can go buy little cosmetic magics, love potions, and ghost banishing chalk from the crazy old man at the edge of the village- it's just the way the world is.

Personally I would still give MUs something a little unique; a magic power ever other level for instance, something similar to a beneficial mutation or supernatural language. Being able swallow a fire and spew it at people or growing claws would be a unique and more interesting way to develop your Magic Users. Thoughts?

Best hexcrawls?

(other than Carcosa, Isle of the Unknown and World of the lost, which I already know about and own).

>>51864615
X1 Isle of Dread

>>51864635
Why? What makes it good and worthy of being "best"?

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>>51864682
It was the first and it did it fairly right. Open ended enough to let the players wander, enough hooks for good quests, NPCs you could meet and fight/befriend/fuck, dangerous monsters from one end of the map to another and a building knowledge that a great evil lay at the center of the island the more one gets to know the people and their history.

And the center of the island is really interesting in that the BBEGs are there doing their own thing but what is they are doing? Summoning ancient demons? Cursing the islands inhabitants? Trying to tear asunder the veils of reality? All of it was up for the DM to decide and it was packaged in with (almost every) copy of the Expert Set! Easy to get hold of, easy to read, lots of things to intrigue and decent enough to let people do their own thing.

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Okay, I need some advice.
To keep that same "LIfe is Suffering" feel of roguelikes in my system, I've decided to eliminate levels and have each class have a set of skills that they select 4 of when they do character creation, with their racial bonuses and rare items to supplement them. As a bonus, if they make it to a shrine, they can swap out class skills if they want.

The main problem is that I feel like I've gone a bit crazy with all the items that can be attained. There's the "standard items" which are basic weapons, armour, spells, techniques (essentially skills for non-magic classes), rings, and misc. items. Then I decided to add food, weapons for each race and class, and "classless" skill (basically TMs that allow you to mutliclass) .

Almost to compensate, I've made the monsters horrifically strong, given staggering penalties to eating spoiled food, basically "classless" skills for only the monsters, merciless traps.

Should I worry about the balance or no?

>>51864615
>>51864635
>>51864735

I had a quick look at the Isle of Dread map. Interestingly, it is about 1/3 larger than Carcosa/IotU.

I went ahead and compared these hexcrawl maps. With some other stuff for fun:

Isle of Dread: 56x37 6mi hexes (336x222mi)
Carcosa: 25x16 10mi hexes (250x160mi)
Isle of the Unknown: 25x16 10mi hexes (250x160mi)
World of the Lost: 29x18 5mi hexes (145x90mi)
150mi "Region" hex: 30x25 6mi hexes (180x150mi)

Skyrim (lore): 58x58 6mi hexes (121,000 mi^2)
Skyrim (in-game): Fits in to a single 6mi hex.
Europe: 223x346 6mi hexes (1339x2076mi)


I have no life.

anyone knows of a rules summary for LOAFP ? im very new to this OSR thing and some rules seem... very light or not explained at all. Like the rulebook for LoafP is just .. nothing. After dealing with a lot of rules for 5e here it seems im missing something. I could not find the rules for critical fumble or success for example. Help pls ?

>>51857171
>Goddammit, there was a great campaign setting I downloaded a while back. Can't remember it's name or system, but it was metal as fuck and still kinda goofy in the Conan way. I remember there were bird people that lived in the mountains of that sparks anyone's memory.
Anon, if you ever remember the setting, please let me know

What was the design process behind turning the single saving throw of S&W into the split up throws in LL? I'm writing a heartbreaker (mostly out of historical curiousity) and I am wondering if this is something I should care about. Did Gary care about saving throw distinctions?

>>51864595
I'm usually against ye olde magic shope, but that's because I find low levels of civilization and post empire collapse suits how my group plays better.

That being said, I also have a lot more one-use magic items by refluffing scrolls whenever they come up as something anyone can use, and tend to have more things like that as treasure.

>>51866786
What? LL isn't an outgrowth of S&W.

LL is a clone of Moldvay's Basic\Expert rules. S&W is also a clone, but a loose one -- consolidated saving throws is something Matt Finch wanted.

And, essentially, what he did was average out all the saves per level for each class.

I'm putting together a B/X doc. Everything is a copy-past from the original books, edited when Expert overlaps with Basic.

The only changes so far are for simplicity and consistency:
-All rolls are explicit: it says 2d6 instead of 2-12
-Charisma has a -3 .. +3 range like the other abilities, because:
-Simplified character generation. One table to look up your ability modifiers, a few sentences explaining where to add that number.
-Ascending AC, classes have a to-hit bonus in their level tables. No to-hit table lookup during combat. Original values included for compatability.
-Turn undead is a die roll instead of a table lookup (math is pretty accurate!)
-Thief skills are given in "x in 6" instead of %. Math is not super accurate (but feels good!).
-Monsters have simplified stats (think MotBM) and explicit loot rolls, instead of a treasure type lookup.

Anyone interested in the pdf?

Oh, and S&W started as a loose clone of the three OD&D books, plus Greyhawk. It's picked up material since then.

S&W WhiteBox was a result of Marv Breig (Fin) taking S&W and stripping it down into something closer to just the three OD&D books.

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>>51865447
It doesn't do those. If you want to houserule criticals and fumbles you can. Some people like them, some don't.

Are there specific things you want to do that aren't covered in the rules? It will probably come down to making a judgement on what modifiers to apply to an attack roll, skill roll, ability roll, or not rolling because its fine to just do and move on with the game.

Here's a basic reference sheet.

>>51864002
>>naked
>>We had lots of spare change
>>We were thieves, so we stole

So where did you, uhh, keep all your arrows, coins and stolen goods, if you were all naked?

>>51866918
I didn't know that, interesting. I'll keep the split throws then. I never actually played any of the old games, just retroclones, so I thought S&W copied an earlier version of DnD, then LL copied one edition later.

>>51864002
I'm curious now. What clones have resting rules? I think LL does, but it's very close to BX.

>>51867086
I think anon means unarmored.

>>51866920
If you keep the simplified/houseruled bits as optional, and the layout is pretty and functional, I'd pay for that.

>>51863950
>work on my modern fantasy version of OSR
Did you check out Weird Adventures already?

>>51866920
>-Turn undead is a die roll instead of a table lookup (math is pretty accurate!)
I need this, I hate depending on that stupid table. Somebody?

>>51866920
interested af

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>>51866920
I am interested in seeing a pdf of this as well.

>>51864595
Just have magic rituals that can be cast from grimoires, etc.

Yes, your fighter can cast a fireball but only if he completed the 9-hour ritual requiring the blood of a salamander beforehand

I just read through DCC and am in love. Does anyone here run it or have experience with it?

>>51863638
>What system are you playing right now? How's it working for you?
OD&D and about to start a new thing because I finally got a copy of Outdoor Survival and am in fucking love with that map, finally owning a full-size copy in person.

>>51863966
That's a nice map you've got there. You make it yourself?

>>51868074
Are you doing the OD&D Setting thing?

>>51865415
>Skyrim (in-game): Fits in to a single 6mi hex.
Magnificent.

Seriously though, even though it feels compressed as hell in-game, it still demonstrates ways to hide shit all over the place if you disregard the lore scaling and just use it to get a feel for hex size.

>>51868109
Using the rules for reading the map in The Underworld & Wilderness Adventures, yes. Using the specific write-ups off that blog, not really, but they're in the back of my head.

>>51868114
>hex size
The Yoon-Suin guy had a really good post on his blog about this, "In praise of the 1-mile hex" or something like that, about exactly how stupidly much terrain is in one hex of various sizes.

>>51868225
Oh right, I remember that.

https://monstersandmanuals.blogspot.co.nz/2012/03/being-illustration-of-contents-of-1.html

I use six mile hexes myself, but that's because it's so easy to justify adding and changing stuff in them - a one mile hex may have a ton of stuff, but it's harder to have fairly significant things that you just didn't run into before.

>>51868244
Yeah, makes sense. I use five-mile just because it's the standard in OD&D and the nice travel speed table's adapted to it. (I don't really get why Basic opted to use the *more* complicated method of giving overland travel speed in miles and leaving hex size to the referee -- typical case for simplifying there if you ask me)

It's still useful to remewmber just how much is in there, though, like how most baronies would fit in one hex of that size (contrary to the bizarre empty-America-based fief clearing rules).

>>51863786
>>51863843
As far as I know, TroveGuy (also running the 'Zine) doesn't lurk the threads anymore so it's probably not him posting those. That being said, if a second edition was to be compiled they've stated in the Discord (back in January) that they would need more content (Maps. Dungeon rooms. Puzzles. Cool monsters. Plot hooks. Magic items).

>>51867129
That's true, but S&W's interpretation was much looser. The single saving throws were also attempt to keep it divergent enough to avoid lawsuit from WotC

>>51868287
5 mile hexes displease me. I mean having everything in neat fives and tens pleases me greatly, but for actual gameplay I find 6 better, because multiples and fractions of 6 are nicer to deal with.

It's also basically 5 miles so I can just pretend the map scale is 6 miles per hex instead of 5.

>>51864941
>Should I worry about the balance or no?
Nah. If you do, just know that it's very difficult, and you're going to miss a bunch. Find out idealy how powerful your characters are supposed to be (are they No Name Joe, Samwise, Boromir, or Gandolf? then make sure the other classes are about the same). Even if you WANTED it balanced in a very detailed way, that's the last step you take in making your own game. Moreover that's what play testing is for.

>>51864002
Bunnies don't eat carrots. They eat grasses and their own partially digested shit.

Hey gents, any of you know which Dragon zines have articles related to B/X? Mostly I am looking for interesting classes and such so I wouldn't mind any suggestions for fan made ones too.

>>51868415
I use kilometers instead. So 6 miles = 10 km
Feels good. Same size, but doesn't trigger my autism

>>51863638
Oh, nice! I've got that old D&D box peeking down at me from my bookshelf. Keep on the Borderlands and shit? "Wacky" uncle gave it to me and my bro when we were kiddos... good stuff.

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>>51865415
Your math is sketchy as fuck. It turns out hexagons aren't squares.
Two 6-mile hexes top to bottom are 12 miles vertical.
Two 6-mile hexes diagonal to diagonal are NOT 12 miles horizontal.

It's easiest to find the square-footage of one hex, then multiply by you hex count.
I'll spare you some trig:
• 5-mile hex: 20.651 sq. miles
• 6-mile hex: 31.177 sq. miles
• 10-mile hex: 80.603 sq. miles

>Isle of Dread: 64599 sq. miles
>Carcosa: 32241 sq. miles
>Isle of the Unknown: 32241 sq. miles
>World of the Lost: 10780 sq. miles
>"Region" hex: 23383 sq. miles
>Skyrim (lore): 104880 sq. miles
>Skrim (game) < 31.177 sq. miles
>Europe (yours): 2405600 sq. miles
>Europe (actual): 3931000 sq. miles

>>51866920
>Charisma has a -3 .. +3 range like the other abilities,
Please don't.
>Thief skills are given in "x in 6" instead of %. Math is not super accurate (but feels good!)
Please include the originals as well.

>Ascending AC, [...] Original values included for compatability.
Anyone who cares will have done the math in their head before reading ahead to your compatibility blurb.

>>51866920
I'd suggest two versions, one where you don't change anything and another with those slight edits. And might as well also make the raw document public too for people to make their own edits.

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>>51868495

Hey! I told you that in confidence, you promised you wouldn't tell anyone!

>>51869101

I don't know about that, but I know about this:

http://pandius.com/becmicls.html

>>51869396
It's not a plain copy-paste to merge both books. It's streamlined where possible, trying to stay close to the original.

Example:
Ability Score Adjustments
[...]
Clerics can lower Strength or Intelligence to raise Wisdom.
Dwarves and Fighters can lower Intelligence or Wisdom to raise Strength.
Elves can lower Wisdom to raise Strength or Intelligence.
Halflings can lower Intelligence or Wisdom to raise Strength or Dexterity.
Magic-users can lower Strength or Wisdom to raise Intelligence.
Thieves can lower Intelligence or Wisdom to raise Dexterity.

A lot easier to use, right?

>Thieves
Maybe. I actually don't mind the %, but the x in 6 chances are consistent with the rest.
And it makes no fucking sense that a thief finds traps worse than every other human at 1st level.

>AC
Tempted to keep the originals, since they are piss easy to convert on the fly.

>Charisma
Why? I know reactions rolls are a bell-like curve, but I hate how Cha is different to all other abilities (even Int goes up to +3...)
And Str goes up to +3 and is added to open doors...

>>51869679
>it makes no fucking sense that a thief finds traps worse than every other human at 1st level

Only if you don't give him the other human's chances first, then apply his thief skill like a saving throw if he misses.

>>51869868
By the book, "Thieves have special chances" to do shit.
Besides, two rolls for one thing goes against the game's design. You succeed or fail, and that's it. If you want to try again come back again when you gain a level.

>Basic has better rules, but AD&D has better modules

Do you agree with this statement?

>>51870016
Ye,s wit hthe caveat that AD&D's modules aren't acutally that good either, and it's a close-run thing. IMO the best module is G1 because it's effectively just a lair -- and a great illustration of what a giant lair might look like, natch -- which you could dump in anywhere. S3 is great as well and for much the same reasons -- but B4 especially is a great module too.

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>>51866920
>>51869679
>Thieves
If you view thief rolls a saving throw on top of another roll, the numbers get a bit better. Of course, it's irritating to do things that way, but if you combine them into a single roll (like this table, which uses a 2-out-of-6 basis for normal folk), thieves should be more playable.

As far as X in 6 skills go, I guess it makes advancement easy, since each point counts for a lot, but there's not much elbow room in there. A 50% chance to succeed at something honestly sucks, and there's only two levels above that that aren't automatic success (or verrrry near it, if you do the whole "reroll if you get a 6, and if you get another 6 you fail" thing with a skill of 6). Also, it means that you can't include attribute bonuses if you want to. d% skills are admittedly more granular than you need, but I've always felt that d6 skills weren't granular enough. d10, d12 or d20 skills all seem more appropriate. But that's just, like, my opinion, man, and lots of people apparently disagree with me.

>>51870257
I don't want to make things easier for thieves.
I want to make things easier for the DM (and maybe the players).

With x in 6 I don't mean that you advance by a 16.6% each level; I mean that the original percents have been rounded up to the nearest 1/6 and expressed as a x in 6 chance.
I said I wanted to be close to the book - I'm streamlining, not houseruling.

>>51870452
Do it as 2d6, you can get smaller margins of alteration.

>>51870577
Tempting. It would look decent next to Turning.
Shame that I'm already doing Turning on a d6...

Actually if you take away the turning table and the thief table, everything in the game is a d6 roll, except saves and attacks - the "big" rolls, so to speak.

>>51867286

The word pseudo real world cultures and racism without actually being racism really put me off. No thanks.

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>>51867877

No. That's bad, it defeats the entire purpose.
>Magic becomes knowledge based instead of item or charged based
>Le ritual magic which is boring and shite anyway, ritual spells should only be for cool spells not generic attacks
>one time purchase instead of an industry
>Less flavorful and interesting then weird rods or little trinkets activated for spells
>No innate reasons in this version that give magic users and edge
>Requires literacy to be common enough in setting for this to work
>etc.

>>51871584
What? How does that prevent it from having e.g. good firearms rules to loot?

>>51871727

I don't like the setting.

I don't like the aesthetic.

The entire first post was about CREATING games and settings, not using other ones.

It's not what I'm looking for. Stop asking.

>>51868098
Sadly no. I have made some of the maps for the game, but this one was too good to pass up however.

Opinions on Field Folio? Is it useful or just a relic? Best bits?

How long do you think it should take a party to travel the length of an average hexcrawl? Assuming normal unencumbered movement speed of say, 30mi per day (being generous).

Not how much it is based of existing hexcrawls. But how much you think it SHOULD be in terms of game balance and interesting logistical decisions.

>>51872758
24miles/day unencumbered
18
12
6 when very encumbered

2 wandering monster checks, day and night

[insert travel minigames here, like getting lost, foraging, and such]

>>51872758
50x30 6-mile hexes have enough room (46766 square miles) for dozens of campaigns to reuse the map.
But if you make the map any smaller than that, your PCs are going to mount an expedition off the edge.

>>51871629
>Magic becomes knowledge based instead of item or charged based
Grimoires are items, as are the corpses of Salamanders

>ritual spells should only be for cool spells not generic attacks
Nice opinion (You)'ve got there

>one time purchase instead of an industry
Industrial magic item production is shit that springs from 3.PF

>No innate reasons in this version that give magic users and edge
Yeah, there's no advantage over having spells refresh, not having to do hours-long rituals for 1 spell, and not needing rare esoteric ingredients

>Requires literacy to be common enough in setting for this to work
No? Not everyone needs to know how to read. PCs are default literate in almost every ruleset.

>>51873284
>PCs are default literate in almost every ruleset
Unless your int is crap, most DnD rulesets assume or state you can write/read

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Posted this in /wbg/, suggested that I post it here too.

This is a 5-page toolset I cooked up space exploration games, with stuff like Stars Without Number in mind. It lets you populate a space map with stuff like nebulas, star clusters and supernova remnants to give space some color. All d10 based, with pictures included of the various objects you can encounter.

>>51869597
You sir or madame are a scholar, gentle(wo)man, and paragon of virtue.

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>>51873284
>Grimoires are items, as are the corpses of Salamanders

Except the grimorie in this instance stores the knowledge of the spell. If the salamander is all you need to cast the spell + the knowledge, then the ability to cast spells comes from an arbitrary ritual deemed by "the universe" to work, as opposed to a more logical energy or item based magic system. I don't like this methodology for spell casting as it raises a lot of needless questions; why does the salamander work?

>Nice opinion (You)'ve got there
You're right, it's my opinion and my setting. However I can also argue that it's objectively stupid as well. If people dance around and do a ritual to cast a fireball, how would this ever be useful? It wouldn't, it takes too much time and precision to cast a spell you'd normally need in a split second time frame. Secondly, it's dumb to imagine an attack from a ritual like that taking place. What do they dance around, then motion with their arms or staff and the fireball flies out? Ritual attacks can be cool but they need to be channeled (ie; while you're chanting the target keels over in pain) or based on more mystical laws (ie; voodoo doll)

>Industrial magic item production is shit that springs from (edition I don't like)
Not only are you contradicting yourself as this is entirely an (opinion), and then trying to harken my idea to an edition nobody is allowed to like to give weight to your arguement, but you then imply that 'industry' means 'industrial'. Magic is a HEARTH industry, still made by hand and still made from polished semi-precious stone rods, you can still buy it, but that doesn't mean it's mass produced or le factories pumping out fire ball wands for soldier xd shit that I also hate in a lot of fantasy as well.

I could go on, but I keep hitting the post limit trying to explain. Instead I'll just say you obviously don't understand why I wanted the original idea in the first place so your opinions are not going to help me.

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Worth for $25?

No idea what the condition inside is like, but some of the covers look pretty worn

>>51874102
Sure, if you're getting the lot for $25 it's worth it. Paying that for use copies of a PHB and Moldvay Basic is a pretty good deal. You could probably flip those brown-book splats for at least a fiver each if you wanted to go to the trouble, too.

>>51874102
Pretty sure Moldvay Basic is '81, not '80.

Is the '91 rule book Black Box Basic? I don't honestly know much about that, but I understand it's a starter set for Rules Cyclopedia (Basic) that covers levels 1-5. That might be interesting. Not sure how it compares to Moldvay Basic.

Anyway, the shit I'd be interested in would be PHB and Moldvay Basic (too bad there's no Expert set to go along with it). A chance to look over Black Box Basic would be neat too. I'd consider the other books shit to flip through to get ideas, and wouldn't personally value them at more than a couple bucks apiece. So that means 6-7 dollars apiece for Moldvay Basic, Black Box Basic, and the PHB (or $10 for the hardback PHB, and $4-5 for the other two). That seems pretty reasonable.

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>>51874578
>Is the '91 rule book Black Box Basic? I don't honestly know much about that, but I understand it's a starter set for Rules Cyclopedia (Basic) that covers levels 1-5.
Not him, but you're correct. That dragon is from the Black Box edition of the RC starter; there's also an earlier starter box which has pic related for a cover.

>>51869473
Oh hey, I was planning on doing something like this.

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But seriously, I need some psychic powers that aren't shit for my modern fantasy OSR

>>51872864
>>51872914
To be clear, i mean how many days/weeks/months(!?) Do you think it should take a party to travel from one end to the other.

Completely ignoring actual movement rates, existing practices, etc. Just what you feel would be a good amount of time to spend if the party wanted to get from one end to the other without stopping (8hrs travel/day).

>>51874091
>magic
>logical
Fuck off back to 3.PF


>However I can also argue that it's objectively stupid as well. If people dance around and do a ritual to cast a fireball, how would this ever be useful?
Yeah, it's not like wizards are explicitly supposed to be casting long magic rituals and waiting until the last second to complete them. Dumbass.

How easy is adapting the Temple of Elemental Evil series to Basic? I've only read through the first module and it didn't seem so bad.

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>>51875385

Except magic SHOULD BE logical, it just follows the laws of symbolism and mystic tradition as opposed to physical or chemical laws.

>Yeah it's not like Wizards cast long ass rituals until the last second to complete them
You call my magic ideas lame because they're logical and yet you use a literal rules lawyer style magic?

What happens when a ritual is interrupted? It just keeps going forever until completion or an arbitrary 'sleeping' stage? Fucking retarded. One of the absolute worst styles of 'magic' system.

I like how you claim that my magic is logical and that I should fuck off to 3.PF when you're using one of the absolute worst, least mystical, least interesting magic systems of all time.

However I could tell long ago you were a shitty troll with bad opinions, so it's irrelevant. GTFO, and don't come back.

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Not that guy, but wew lad.

Anyone up for discussing whether or not Clerics know all cleric spells automatically, as vaguely related by the LBBs, and whether or not there is the clerical equivalent of the spell book?

I like the idea of clerics carrying around their holy book / stone tablets / memorizing the vocal history of everything, either in hand literal-bible-thumping style while they mace some faces.

I am attempting to decide on which part of the OSR I am going to jump into and I am very tempted by the Rules Cyclopedia.
Now, Dark Dungeons is based on the RC, but how close is it really?

What's the best version of Basic DnD?

>>51875883
B/X

>>51875896
Why is that?

>>51875817
>Anyone up for discussing whether or not Clerics know all cleric spells automatically
Does anyone actually disagree that they do? Or think it would be Infinite Hell if they had to locate old prayer books and hagiographies before they could perform their miracles? "Ah-ha! Here's the prayer of St. Dunstan against the devil's afflictions [Remove Curse]!" seems perfectly legit to me.

I do prefer explicitly Catholic/pre-schismatic priests as Clerics, though. Maybe it works out differently if you want to have priests of Ra and shit, but then again maybe not. I suppose they literally wrote things they called spells, when I think about it.

>>51875919

Not him, but I'd say it's about as well built as OD&D, but much cleaner and easier to read, learn, and understand.
Its dungeon crawling game structure is tight, and everything fits together with it nicely.

>>51875817
Magic-Users tell the referee, "I'm using these spells."
Clerics are told by the referee, "you're using these spells."

They can make requests, but they don't get the final call.
And they don't need to name spells in their request, the referee can hand them spells appropriate to the adventure.
They can also receive "bad" spells (or less than their standard allotment) for acting against their God's interests.

What are some of the best old school modules for starting a level 1 campaign? Need inspiration

>>51876011
Tomb of Horrors.

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>>51875986
>Or think it would be Infinite Hell if they had to locate old prayer books and hagiographies before they could perform their miracles? "Ah-ha! Here's the prayer of St. Dunstan against the devil's afflictions [Remove Curse]!" seems perfectly legit to me.

I dig that way.

>>51876011
D1. Loosen or remove the time limit, de-emphasise the story to taste, and there you go.

>>51876011
B2 if you want a home base and a cave full of humanoids
B4 if you want a pbig dungeon with factions and cool shit but not much environment

In not tsr I really like Prison Of The Hated Pretender. It just has a tone I like.

Tomb Of The Iron God is pretty cool too. Lots of undead so that depends on what you want. Its easy to modify though.

Tower Of The Stargazer can be fun too, but its fairly specifically oriented around weird magic and killing the shit out of your players so it depends on what you're up to. I used it but changed some stuff.

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>>51876021

>>51876134
D e a d D u d e s ⇒ N e w D u d e s ⇒ L e v e l O n e D u d e s

>>51875999
That sounds flavorful, but would never be able to work written as any kind of rules.
Like holy shit that is a fight waiting to happen.

>>51875999
I like your trips and also this idea as long as the referee isn't a humongous fag about it and gives out bad spells to amuse himself. On the other hand, if the referee grants spells based on what *he knows* might lie ahead, it could get a pretty cool flavor of divine intervention. "Why would the Lord bestow me with nothing but Cure Disease spells?" and then FUCK SHIT FUCK THE PLAGUE WORMS, HELP, BROTHER ANSELM!

File under "for the right ref with the right group", I guess.

>>51876222
It works if you have players who are willing to accept the fact that the entity they're petitioning spells from has the right to say no, and a GM who won't abuse it. It usually devolves fairly rapidly into the GM just going 'yeah, whatever' to the player's spell choices.

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Best shit in the OSR right here.

Does more to make every class flavorful and interesting than any retro-clone has.
Made spellcasting exciting again.
Figured out a solution for Feats with a single dice.
Made Halflings not suck.

>inb4 table/funky dice butthurt

>>51875883
1. 81' Moldvay B/X
2. LotFP
3. Swords & Wizardry

>>51876559
>edgy 3.5 homebrew
>part of the OSR

lol

>>51875883
Rules Cyclopedia, with B/X a short distance behind.

>>51875896
>>51876574
Why does everyone say BX when the BE part of BECMI is almost the exact same and you can take bits and pieces of CMI as you like?

>>51876583
>has F/R/W saves
>must be a 3.5 brew

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>>51876626
>is almost the exact same
"is almost" is not "is"

>>51876599
On this note is there something somewhere that actually puts the various basics next to each other to show the strengths and weaknesses? I would love to dive into the Rules Cyclopedia but its size and layout intimidate me, and then I hear about what it did to the thief.

I guess I should really ask about the Pros of it along with fixes for the bigger problems.

>>51876626
Because B/X is easier to reference in play. Mentzer Basic is written in a similar way to Cybergeneration, that is to say, in a way that teaches you the game as you read through the book. That sounds good, until you realise it makes the books a nightmare to reference in play.

>>51876629

He's not (entirely) wrong, though, DCC was originally a 3.5 publisher of "retro" adventures, until they developed their own in-house system, which is a stripped-down "retro" 3.5, remade to be closer to their memory of the TSR era. It's still not easily compatible with TSR modules and stuff, but it is close enough that it's generally accepted as OSR anyway.

>>51876696
>and then I hear about what it did to the thief.
Can't be as bad as what it did to the Mystic.

>>51876626
A lot of people prefer the layout of Moldvay's Basic over Mentzer's "Teaching Basic". Moldvay's for sure a better table reference in that sense. A few perverse souls even prefer the lack of Elmore art, but for the life of me I'll never know why. Elmore's B/W art is him at his best, avoiding a bunch of the bad habits in his full paintings.

And some people don't like how BECM nerfs the Thief's skill advancement. Personally I don't care about that because the Thief needs massive overhauling anyway.

>>51876719
>Mystics Have 16 HD Guy
You're officially the new True AD&D.

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Anyone playing Stars Without Number? I'm thinking about starting up a new science fiction game with my group, and I'm debating SWN versus Coriolis. I'd love to hear about anyone's experiences with SWN, since Coriolis isn't OSR at all.

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>>51877976
Whoops. I am obviously not the OP.

>>51876626
The layout of Mentzer Basic is a fucking abomination. I can't ever find shit in those books. Also, dividing the books into a player manual and a dungeon master's manual is obnoxious. And that and the learn-as-you-play spiel* results in the Basic Set being almost twice as long as Moldvay's, despite having almost identical rules. And I'm not sure the CMI parts of BECMI actually matter, because who the fuck wants to play past 14th level anyway? Also, the art in Moldvay Basic is cooler.

*Which I found really obnoxious, because it would introduce a detail hanging out there, all its own, with no easy way to read up on it to figure out how it fits together with other things (because those details are on some table 20 pages further in somewhere).

>>51877976
Only a few of us will talk about SWN, because only a few came here for it.

Not really much to say of it, since it's essentially B/X.
If you're familiar with B/X, you already know how it plays.
If you aren't familiar, know that B/X is /osrg/'s favorite system.

Aside from that, SWN has really REALLY good random generation tables.
But (by design) the kind that are easily stolen for use with other systems.

>>51876696
>and then I hear about what it did to the thief
There's absolutely no reason why you can't just use the thief skills from Moldvay Basic, just like you might as well use the cleric spell progression from BECMI / RC when playing Moldvay Basic.

But I'm not the person to advise you on the RC. I found it too cluttered for my taste and never really pursued it any further. I want my Basic D&D to be Basic, and not halfway to AD&D. Granted, a lot of the details in there are superfluous, and could just be ignored, but they still clutter the book and get in the way.

>>51878128
What does B/X stand for? I keep seeing it everywhere on this topic and googling is not proving fruitful. Basic D&D/Expanded D&D?

>>51878219 c >>51812128

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>>51876729
>A few perverse souls even prefer the lack of Elmore art
Elmore art is fine, but it's a bit generic-feeling. Moldvay Basic art is generally more distinctive and evocative, in my opinion. Even simple shit like this picture here is very stylish.

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>>51878219
>Basic D&D/Expanded D&D?
Basic / Expert, the two sets of Moldvay/Cook D&D.

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>>51878219
>Basic D&D/Expanded D&D?
Basic set by Tom Moldvay + eXpert set by Zeb Cook

Not to be confused with the Basic and Expert sets by Mentzer (which are part of BECMI)

>>51877976
SWN isn't bad, but it's kinda bland, not to mention it feels kinda incomplete in parts(not as badly as White Star, but still noticeable), of the existing Sci-Fi OSR games I've read, I'd say Colonial Troopers is the best one

>>51869989
It's almost like adding the thief was a mistake.

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>>51879053

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>>51879154
If most of OSR had its way, D&D would be:

Only Fighters & Wizards who are good at everything because all adventurers should be.
Also everything should be a d6. There should be no plot or story, just going into a dungeon and getting shit. There should be 3 rules at best, the rest being DM fiat. The same 5 saving throws, always. Etc.

It's really no wonder the Black Hack is so popular. People are looking for a Chutes & Ladders version of D&D.

>>51879227
don't forget that combat would probably not be a thing, cause those kind of people think combat is a terrible idea

>>51879227

You seem to be mixing a lot of different people's opinions up here. But yeah, if everyone's "OSR has to be like this" were implemented it would be a wreck. On the other hand...

>>51879242

Shush you. Combat is dangerous and unrewarding in early D&D by design; it has so many rules because the stakes are high, not because every session is supposed to revolve around it like later D&D. This is one of the best parts about old D&D, that makes your players behave like grave robbers instead of hack'n'slash video game protagonists.

>>51879227
>Classes
>Dice
>Rules
>A Dungeon Master

Look at this fucking guy. I play D&D by turning off all the lights, lying in the homemade sensory deprivation tank in my basement and imaging a magical adventure.

>>51879227
That sounds JUST like my shitty homebrew.

Except for,
>The same 5 saving throws, always
I've got two saves:
• Morale (which accrues lots of bonuses/penalties)
• Luck (an attribute, which decreases on a successful save)
Most things that aren't matters of life or death are "no save."

So, what would be the easiest ways to adjust a system's lethality up or down? Barring simply pulling punches or weakening opposition, I mean. It's fairly easy to mod classes or rules in OSR stuff, so I was wondering what's everyone's go-to method for making a system more heroic or more gritty.

On that note, how survivable do you generally like your characters to be? At first level, how many hits should someone be able to take, generally? How well should they be able to take down foes? Do you want the characters to feel like heroic types, or puny shitkickers who are just as likely to get ruined if they try to get by with brute force?

>>51879586
Changing rules for dying can switch things up. If you have it so PCs die immediately upon 0hp, the game will be more lethal. If you let them live on for an hour while having -10hp, you'll have a more heroic game.

>how survivable do you generally like your characters to be?
I would like to have games be very lethal, but the way I run games betrays my belief. I always make it easier for my players, either because I get invested in their characters or because they get too strongly attached.

>At first level, how many hits should someone be able to take, generally?
One or two hits, I'd say.

How well should they be able to take down foes?
One or two hits per hit die, with anything from a 50% to 5% chance to hit.

>Do you want the characters to feel like heroic types, or puny shitkickers who are just as likely to get ruined if they try to get by with brute force?
I'd like my players to think smart, and use lateral thinking rather than gaming a system meant for very lethal encounters.

>>51879586
You can get any difficulty you want through the monster selection.
Higher frequency for strong monsters or higher quantity of monsters always does the trick.

>On that note, how survivable do you generally like your characters to be?
Depends on what they're trying to do. If they're cautious, witty, or clever, they survive.
>At first level, how many hits should someone be able to take, generally?
Characters should go down in [½ of level] to [twice level + 1] hits.
>How well should they be able to take down foes?
2 to 4 hits from the strongest Fighting-Man in the party? 6 to 10 for "strong" monsters.
1 (or occasionally 2) hits to down things much weaker than the party.

>Do you want the characters to feel like heroic types, or puny shitkickers
Like veteran men-at-arms.

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>>51879586
As far as making things less lethal, you could always give characters more hit points, especially if you give people a bigger buffer of negative hit points, and maybe let them spring back from a deficit (medical attention after a battle returns anybody in negative hit points to 1 hit point). There's a big difference between dead at 0 and dead at -10.

For that matter, you could let everybody heal after every battle. (Your healing factor equals 1 + 1/10 your max hit points, rounded down. After every battle, multiply your healing factor by 1d3 to see how many hit points you heal from medical attention.)

You could also implement some sort of death check like in the pic, or just automatically reinterpret fatal blows against PCs as cripple wounds that maybe put them into comas and/or leave them temporarily disabled, but nevertheless leave them alive.

>>51879700
>Characters should go down in [½ of level] to [twice level + 1] hits.
Is that from something, or did you come up with it just now? I like it.

>>51879727
As far as making this more lethal, that really shouldn't be a problem at lower levels. If you reduce hit point gain, that might help address higher levels. Additionally, you could have people incur crippling wounds whenever they take more damage from a blow than X (their constitution score, or maybe some fraction of their total hit points). Maybe they incur sizable penalties, or continually lose hit points through blood loss.

You could penalize people who are at half life or less, giving them a penalty to all d20 rolls, or maybe making them take the worse of 2 rolls. And if people die at 0 hit points rather than -10, that's certainly harsher.

>>51879763
I came up with it, but a while ago.

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>>51879763

>>51879292
>Shush you. Combat is dangerous and unrewarding in early D&D by design; it has so many rules because the stakes are high, not because every session is supposed to revolve around it like later D&D. This is one of the best parts about old D&D, that makes your players behave like grave robbers instead of hack'n'slash video game protagonists.
unfortunately that only really works if the players(and the DM) are any good at actual Roleplaying, and my experience shows that 99% of the people in the hobby have no capacity for Roleplaying at all(and this is supported by the genre as a whole gradually becoming more supportive of both combat and mechanical aspects of characters, the issue coming more from implementation than the actual idea)

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>>51852549

>>51879227
I play B/X because it's a board game first. You gather some friends, write down character sheets and play a couple of games of chess about dark corridors and goblins. And let it evolve.
The game creates its own plot when you play it, no need to force the players to play the DM's novel; no need for the DM to write it.

By the way, old D&D has a good deal of rules, it's just easy to ignore them without breaking the game. Clones are usually made by amateurs, for their group, and they are never playtested extensively until release.

The Black Hack is popular because (A) it's easy to hack (B) it's only revamped math and nothing else (C) lots of marketing.
I don't know of anybody who PLAYS it, and I know lots of people who paid for it.

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>>51879795
>>51879926
Did some more math on this. It gets very consistent after a while.
Sorry if it's hard to understand, not used to statistics.

>>51879296
>the homemade sensory deprivation tank in my basement
This is casual, why would you have a home if you have a sensory deprivation tank? Mine's just lying at the landfill, disguised as an old refrigerator.

>>51875986
My new way of dealing with priest spells. Really cool and fits a Points of Light campaign setting approach.

>>51881975
Needing a tank at all. Amateur.

>>51882586
Thinks he exists when you're all inside my solipsistic D&D-game-dream-within-a-god-dream. Pathetic.

I have never played AD&D. Reccomend me
- a game that has the feel of AD&D without too much crunch. (Or tell me how to hack BX into AD&D lite)
- a iconic module. THE module.

I feel like lots of the flavor from older games came from tonnes of prose and walls of text that aren't suitable for a 21th c. audience...

Anyone know any good low level modules for convention play? I'm running a game for the sake of trying to convert people to the OSR cult so preferably something for new players that introduces OSR elements well.

I have a couple things in mind but just wanted to see if anyone knew about something I didn't.

>>51882387
What's Points of Light?

>>51883274
Seconding, I need badly insta-pickup modules that fit in a 2-3 hour block.
Post what you have, anon.

>>51883087
>Or tell me how to hack BX into AD&D lite
Advanced Edition Companion

>>51883385
>What's Points of Light?
4e's setting.

>>51883274
If you're not already thinking B4, B4. Its a fully fleshed dungeon, gives people a measure to see how far they get. Might have too many factions if you don't have much time, but I wouldn't worry about that too much.

LL's Shadowbrook Manor is pretty straightforward haunted house with cool shit in it for low level play. So's LotFP's Stygian Garden Of Abelia Prem if you want to go more gothic horror. They're both contained environments that you can start everyone in front of, roll rumours and play from there.

>>51883385
Point Of Light is a few things. Conceptually its the assumed basic kit fantasy setting for a lot of older dnd. Post empire collapse (basically post fall of western roman empire europe), lots of ancient ruins and monsters with scattered settlements of civilization. Those are your points of light in the darkness. It also does a double metaphor in referencing torches being points of light in the darkness in a dungeon but that might be getting too into it.

The term has been around for a bit, no idea where it initially came from. There's a generic Hex Crawl called that, 4E dnd's base setting was called that, etc. Its for settings that aren't fully detailed encyclopedias of functioning civilizations, more for settings that have lots of vague and unknown territory between the few parts of the world adventures would come from.

In the LotFP core book, it says Elves are trained as both Fighters and Magic-Users; does that mean that they get the scaling Attack Bonus, like Fighters, as well as the spell casting like MU?

>>51883780
No scaling AB. But they get the extra Press/Defense options Fighters get. And Elves need one free hand to cast magic, too.

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I did some more work based on anons axiom in >>51879722. I don't know what it is, but something about this appeals to me.

Also, here's a possible dungeon balancing thing that I came up with.

Possible balancing technique:
Assume there are 3 thieves, 2 fighters, 5 magic users in a group
5 should meet 1d4, 8 should meet 1d6, 5 should meet 1d8, 2 should meet 1d10
20 in total
1 in every 10 enemies does 1d10 damage
1 in every 4 enemies does 1d4 damage
1 in every 4 enemies does 1d8 damage
8 in every 20 enemies does 1d6 damage

Now, assume instead that there are 3 fighters and 1 magic user in a group
3 should meet 1d10, 3 should meet 1d8, 1 should meet 1d4, 1 should meet 1d6
3 in every 8 enemies should do 1d10 damage
3 in every 8 enemies should do 1d8 damage
1 in every 8 enemies should do 1d6 damage
1 in every 8 enemies should do 1d4 damage

2 clerics, 1 magic user
1 should meet 1d4, 2 should meet 1d8, 3 should meet 1d6
1/2 of enemies do 1d6 damage
1/3 of enemies do 1d8 damage
1/6 of enemies do 1d4 damage

Let me know what you think. Maybe I've just gone crazy and all of this is stupid.

>>51880281

Good news is that people can get better at it with practice. Take the new-school crutches out from under them and give them some time. (And hopefully a good example from another player at the table) Eventually they'll get better.

>>51866920
I'm this anon. The pdf is 60% done in terms of content. Question:

Those of you who play B/X strictly by the book, how much do you care about late game stuff? And about the anally specific stuff? I'm talking about things like building castles, castle encounters, buying siege machines, the price of hiring a Dwarven Mounted Crossbowman (mule and crossbow) per month...

Honestly I never cared about ANY of that. I wish the game had some guidelines for how much a resurrection from a NPC cleric would cost, tho - that comes up a lot more.

Another: do you prefer the books with their current organization, or maybe something more procedure-oriented? For example taking boat and ship prices from the equipment lists, and moving them to a wilderness section where hexcrawl is explained.

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>>51885302
>how much do you care about late game stuff?
Not at all, but your goal should be accuracy. Include it.

>I wish the game had some guidelines for how much a resurrection from a NPC cleric would cost,
Not sure, but OD&D by-the-book is pretty clear on this.
Pic related contains 6 Clerics who can Raise Dead.

You need the spell cast within 4 days, but they don't necessarily have it memorized.
So you want to reach them in 3 days. Most areas in the map are not within 3 days travel of them.

The Clerics demand 10% of all visitor's wealth. They also Quest visitors who refuse to pay or who request services.
Of the 6 Clerics, 3 are Lawful and 3 are Chaotic. The Chaotic Clerics are often (but not necessarily) outright hostile.

>>51885302
I care, keep it.

Even if I didn't, I'd agree with >>51885799 that you should aim for accuracy.

The other changes I'm fairly happy with if they're effectively the same (e.g. ascending AC) or mathematically close (e.g. Turn Undead), but please don't go too far and change prices or times or anything like that.

I'm already a little upset with Labyrinth Lord for some of their changes (which are completely pointless in my view), but I can see how I'd be in the minority here.

>>51886382
>but I can see how I'd be in the minority here.
I don't see how you'd be in the minority.

>>51885302
You offered (>>51866920) a nicely compiled version,
>Everything is a copy-past from the original books, edited when Expert overlaps with Basic.
and to my knowledge no one else has done that.

Some retroclones come close, but they all have noticeable differences.
At the point where you join them, it is just another retroclone adrift in the sea.

There are a million "similar" retroclones to compete with, but a dearth of honest compilations of B/X.

>>51885799
That's not _entirely_ accurate. Check the monster entry for Men, Bandits, and the other varieties that use the same or similar rules - a group of 200+ has a 25% chance of a Cleric who can cast it, 50% if there are 300 of them. Brigands are the same, but Chaotic, Dervishes are Lawful and always have one, Nomads are the same as Bandits but have different normal troops, and Buccaneers and Pirates are basically the same sort of thing on water, but Pirates are always Chaotic.

Basically, the warband of a couple of hundred warriors is your bog standard unit of force in OD&D - castles mostly differ in that they have shit like Griffin/Hippogriff/Roc Cavalry or Ents or fucking Balrogs or Dragons if it's a Wizard.

Of course, finding a group of angry assholes in their wilderness lair and hoping they've got a Patriarch/Evil High Priest with them is perhaps not a good idea.

>>51886525
>There are a million "similar" retroclones to compete with, but a dearth of honest compilations of B/X.
THIS desu, just make Greyharp, don't add your own house rule shit

>>51886525
With 'edited' I mean removing redundancy, rules overlap, using directly the 1-14 level tables, etc.
Ascending AC and the turn undead roll keep the original math, they are simply a simpler and more intuitive way to present it.
Same with the book organization, there's no point in having saving throw tables in the middle of the combat section.
I'm favoring Expert since it's more complete, but I'm tempted to keep the Expert rules separated somehow (font in color blue, maybe).

Asked about >>51885302 stuff because there's an awful lot of details crammed into unused tables, and my pc crashes with those *fart*.

Btw, it's only missing monsters now and it's ~48 pages. Decent font size too! Damn this thing is light.

>>51887181
From your description, it sounds like you're doing great.
Just avoid throwing out content, a la. >>51885302

>I'm favoring Expert since it's more complete, but I'm tempted to keep the Expert rules separated somehow (font in color blue, maybe).
Omit redundant content between B and X, but for altered content prioritize X as the "definitive" version.
Keeping the unaltered B version isn't a bad idea, but it should be written in cyan (or whatever) as the "lesser" version.

>>51883087
>- a iconic module. THE module.
I don't think there is ONE definitive module. I really like the S-series, but they're rather atypical for the most part (Tomb of Horrors is death trap dungeon, White Plume Mountain is crazy wizard shit with some puzzles, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks is a fucking space ship, and Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth is... well, just a huge complex of caves, so that's the most normal). Out of those, I'd probably plug White Plume Mountain, but like I said, it's pretty "different".

>>51887318
E overrides B, obviously. I'm talking about putting stuff like catapults at the end of the equipment list. Any suggestions about good rules of B I should keep?

BTW I think it's worth noting that, by the Expert rules, adventurers 1-3 don't do wildernes stuff - they travel safely.
I should look for more of those 'retroactive' rules.

The main problem right now is handling all the page references (!!) and proofing.
What sould be a good way to to this >>51869473 ? Google docs destroys the layout and inserts all sort of random crap.

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>>51887478
>Google docs
W-Why would you d-do that to yourself... Anon?
Use a markup language. Any markup language.

>>51887581
>not using Adobe® InCopy™ and InDesign™ and Illustrator™ as God intended

>>51887790
>not copyrighting God© as God© intended

>>51887790
>>51887865
jesus christ dudes pfrpg is old school but not osr ok? you don't have to siembda your text

Guys, I know that everything is mostly interchangeable but, say that I wish to use classes from Gazetteers or the Creature Crucible, is there anything I have to do to put those into B/X instead of the BECMI/RC they are meant for? Some sort of conversion or other concerning xp levels or anything? I'm pretty amateurish here.

>>51883385
>What's Points of Light?
4E's core setting, actually pretty legit and fun to run games in. Only issue is that there was never any "core setting books" or whatever, but a guy has been working on that issue.

http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=15210

>>51887418
Thanks! had lots of fun leafing thru these. Anymore like this?

>>51888187
If there were, you would catch it if it came up in play. And could fix it by pulling a ruling off the top of your head.
But while all OSR are similar; B/X, BECMI, and RC are [e x t r e m e l y] similar. Most of their differences are in organization and style.
You will have absolutely no issues using that.

>>51887886
>pfrpg is old school but not osr ok?
???
>you don't have to siembda your text
?
?????

>>51888503
Thank you!

>>51882870
>tfw I forgot to have (You) greentext your reaction
Poor form, that.

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Do you guys ever get meta by having NPCs referencing classes and/or levels?

>>51888836
Only during especially gonzo segments. Even then, it's probably just one NPC doing it.

>>51887478
What are you using tho make the document? Word? Well whatever it is just plopping it as-is onto your file sharer of choice is probably better than trying to convert it.

>>51888508
As far as I can tell, he's saying that the designer / creator of a 3.5E clone known as Pathfinder exists, therefore when we create or collate old material into proper layout / typesetting, we must do so poorly in order to avoid being like Kevin Siembda. Apparently he means to imply that this person employs quality layout people / typesetters and because the game is not "OSR" we must avoid doing the same. We must never replicate TSR, Inc.'s typesetting, for instance, when collecting material from magazines and accessories into a hard-spine book. We must never type up The Pyrologist in Souvenir™ font—it must remain in unreadable scan of photocopy of mimeograph.

In BX:

*You can memorize from captured spellbooks, but doing so risks some kind of weird effect for the caster (insert random effect table)

*MUs pick their spells, Elves roll for them

Good ideas?

>>51889542
>MUs pick their spells, Elves roll for them
Why nerf elves even more? The are already shit!

>>51889638
Flavor.
>shit
Why? they are just slow.

>>51889638
Reminder that non-Elves in OD&Dcould multiclass just like an Elf, provided they had a Prime Requisite of 16+ in the class they wanted to switch to.

How is xp handled for multiclassed characters in 1e? ie a fighter/thief, is the xp for 2nd level fighter+thief or what? I'm pretty confused on MC characters.

>>51887478
I'm working on a copy in mostly Markdown.

>>51889788
Multi-class characters (demi-humans) divide the xp evenly between their classes.
Dual-class characters (humans) put all the xp into their current class.

>>51887581
Not that anon, but any tips on using LaTeX or other markup languages for RPG writing? I've used LaTeX a few times for math/stats write-ups, but I feel like I've just scratched the surface...

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>>51890122

>>51890574
Just poke around, and you'll get the hang of everytjing eventually.
You won't do anything *new* quickly, but that's pretty much a given.
>for RPG writing?
Maybe take a look at stuff for page layouts and uniform text formatting?

>>51888836
depends on the setting, I've definitely had ones where classes and levels are an in-universe thing

In Basic, Expert, or one of the modules for them are there ever explicit rules on spell copying or spell creation? If so I'd love a page number.

>>51890711
Read Magic includes some (ambiguous) mention of captured enemy spellbooks, as does the memorization rules? Otherwise no.

>>51879586
I think everyone should have a chance to fuck up once.

Thus id say everyone should be able to survive a single d6 damage.

So what i do is max hp at level 1+1 extra hp.

>>51890711
X51

Spell Research. New spells may be researched by any spell caster. Research requires both money and time spent out of the
campaign.

To research a spell, the new spell must be written out and given to the DM, who decides if it is possible, what level it should be, and
what changes are needed for play balance. A player may not research spells higher than his character can cast. Spell research costs 1,000 gp per level and requires 2 weeks of research per level.

>>51888836
I once did an osr isekai campaign
It was fun

>>51889724
Remind that non-elves could switch to a new class, not be both.

>>51889538
Well that makes... much more... sense then.

>>51876761
>>>/vr/3820905

>>51892262
They could switch back-and-forth (same as elves) if they had two 16s.

>>51888408
I don't know about anymore like those, but some interesting ones to look at...

DL1, Dragons of Despair -- The Dragonlance stuff is often (appropriately) scorned by grognards, but the first module was pretty cool, from what I remember. Also, it gives you a peak into the Dragonlance world before everything became a tightly-scripted story you weren't allowed to deviate from.

i6, Ravenloft -- Speaking of first modules (and another Tracy Hickman venture), this is the one that kicked off the whole Ravenloft horror thing, with vampires and gypsies and shit. I'm not sure if it was the first module with a 3D dungeon map, but it was certainly the first one I ever saw.

C1, The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan -- I honestly don't remember this one very well, but it had a book of art (sort of like the one for Barrier Peaks, though more central to the adventure, IIRC) to show the players as they entered various rooms of the dungeon.

Wikipedia has a list of old school modules here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dungeons_%26_Dragons_modules

So what do you lads use for 1e combat? OSRIC or ADDICT?

Trying to think of some cool adventuring-related abilities to use with ability scores that do NOT directly impact survivability or dice rolls.

Good things I like from OD&D:

1. Charisma boosts your number of hirelings.

2. Intelligence gives bonus languages.

3. Strength improves carrying capacity.

All three are things that are related to gameplay that don't spell disaster for a character who rolls low. OTOH, a character who rolls a 3 Strength in modern D&D isn't going to make much of a fighter...so I'd like to avoid things like bonuses to-hit and damage.

>>51894537
I too like this kind of thing. The modifiers in my homebew only modify one thing each now. All of which are useful to any adventurer but not necessary for any class. Except maybe INT for wizards, because finding new spells relies on being able to read ancient dead languages.

STR: modifies encumbrance.
DEX: modifies initiative die.
CON: modifies the min/max roll of your hit die.
INT: modifies starting languages and chance to know/learn new ones.
WIS: is replaced with luck in my game.
CHA: Base retainer morale.

>>51894537
But those are things from True AD&D™

>>51895135
The Int. and Cha. ones are from the LBBs.
Not sure about the Str. one, but I doubt it.

>>51895200
They're all fundamental modifiers and numerical values resented within the core ability score charts.

>>51895291
>resented within the core ability score charts.
Nope. Charisma bonuses are on a separate chart (admittedly, on the same page).
Intelligence providing languages is mentioned on the page after the chart.
And the only thing Strength is listed for in the chart is bonus xp.

>>51889538
Palladium Fantasy RPG, and I was saying stop putting (tm) and (c) and all that after every word like Siembda does.

>>51888204
PoLand is cool.

Does anyone have a compilation of all the official classes released for B/X? Or at least a reference of where to look for them?

I'm really digging shadow elves (dat shaman spell list!) from GAZ13.

>>51895927
His name is Siembieda®, Anon.

>>51895984
here's a list(was too long to just post here);

http://pastebin.com/gZKSnUrV

>>51896076
mega-ree[tm]

[insert rant about the stupidity of neutral as an alignment]

>>51896154
Thanks! Theres a lot more than I expected, any recs?
GAZ3 worth checking?
>Alchemist, Cryptomancer, Dracologist, Elementalist, Illusionist, Necromancer, Witch

>>51896154
Not all of these are B/X, right? Looks like a lot of BECMI and RC classes.

My players really dig atmospheric music while they dungeon crawl, does anyone have suggestions for such? I've been using the OST of Torchlight 2 for a few session but now I want something new.

>>51897068
Yeah, a lot of the Basic material out there was BECMI-era, but it's generally usable with B/X as a core set.

>>51875297
I like my hexes to be human scaled, so usually a day's walk (unencumbered) or maybe a day's ride if horses are common and the terrain allows their common use.

Depends on the setting, I guess. In practice, I usually use about a half-day's walk, because the people making the maps are going to be traveling slowly because they're surveying the place, or getting information from traveling merchants or wandering warriors or bards or whoever.

I always want to spread things out too far, but in a pre-modern world it takes a lot of time to get places.

>>51897068
Correct. B/X only existed for about two years before being superseded, so very little material actually had time to come out for it, in contrast with Mentzer Basic, which was the starter set for IIRC ten or twelve years before the Classic D&D Game box came out.

Who should be able to use magic scrolls? Everyone? Magic Users only? Magic Users and Thieves?

>>51897919
In my LotFP game, chaotic characters can use MU scrolls and lawful characters can use cleric scrolls. Neutral characters who try to use one or the other have a chance to succeed, and if they do, their alignment shifts appropriately since they're now apparently holy/magical.

>>51898121
Neat. But what if its a clerical scroll of a chaotic deity?

>>51897919
Anyone can use scrolls, but there's a chance of misfiring them if you can't read them.

Anyone who can read the school's creator's alignment tongue (5-in-6 for Chaos, 5-in-36 for Law, 1-in-36 for Neutral) can vet a hint at the scroll's contents (and avoid misfires).
Read Magic can exactly identify ant scroll (down to the spell details (custom spells, or whatever)) but also subjects the caster to any Curses on the scroll.
Thieves are fluent in the alignment tongues of Neutral AND Chaos, regardless of which their alignment is.

>>51898174
LotFP has all clerics be lawful, since God is apparently lawful. There aren't chaotic deities - cultists of gribbly chaotic horrors are probably MUs.

>>51897866
Why did that even happen, anyway? What about B/X did they need to change?

>>51898387
>LotFP has all clerics be lawful, since God is apparently lawful.
It's more like god/s is/are law, because they control the rules of the natural world. Chaotic stuff are from other dimensions and worlds, not native to our world.

>>51898387
>>51898476
Cool. Makes sense with the 1600-1700s weird Christianity wars vibe.

Is DCC worth playing or buying?

>>51895984
http://pandius.com/becmicls.html

>>51899264
Sure, if you like what it offers. Just download PDF and give it a look.

>>51898278
>school's
*scroll's

In LotFP, do Backpacks full of shit count as 1 item, or 2?
They're italicized in the gear lists, so they're 0 when empty, but the Encumbrance rules say oversized items(which 'sacks full of stuff' count as) add +1 weight.

Is there any OSR publisher that actually playtests their stuff? Both systems and modules.

Just read a bit of LOTFP's the grinding gear, and the author says he played it TWICE. Not a surprise looking at his system, but still you need some cheek to write that in the intro of a paid module.

How the fuck does people charge for stuff like this?
And why do people pay for it? (I can understand if you're a new DM, but there's just so much free stuff out there)

>>51900015
I think it's implied that a backpack is what's holding your shit. So it doesnt suddenly become another item when it's full of the stuff you already have written down. But if you find a sack stuffed full of teeth or something, that would be a +1 to your encumbrance.

>>51900055

Raggi does, now that he has an actual budget. Look at the newer modules, which credit multiple playtesters.
Seriously, you can't blame the people for doing things on a shoestring when they're starting out. The OSR is mostly made up of some guy in his garage, there's no one to pay for extensive playtesting. I mean, sure, you could convince some guys at your LGS to try it out, but good luck getting usable playtest data from them.

So, my grandfather created this absurdly huge megadungeon (we're talking one of those 2.5-inch-thick binders, filled until the front and back covers are almost parallel) that he ran for my dad and his friends when they were teenagers in the early 80s. My grandfather has the AD&D 1e books, which I imagine is what they used

Starting when I was 8, I lived with him for a year and he ran a bit of the dungeon for me as well (but used what I believe, looking back, was probably B/X, for which I am grateful given how old I was) and I played as the whole party.

Now, 20+ years after I played through the first portion of the megadungeon, he's finished typing the entirety of the thing up, and given me the original binder.

I asked if I can use it as the basis for something new and he said yes.

So now I'm torn on whether I want to use it to make a Wizardry-style first person dungeon crawl video game, or to polish it all up and publish it as a megadungeon (probably marked explicitly for use with S&W).

What do you think, /osrg/?

>>51899264
Zocchi dice are a little weird to get used to if you're not using an app/playing online, the magic system is just a bit clunky and I could see people not liking it, and some stuff like equipment is a bit lacking (but easily homebrewed). I've also heard that the 0th level meatgrinder isn't for everyone, but personally I find it hilarious.

I'd say check it out. There's some good ideas in there if you don't end up using the actual system yourself.

>>51900157

Well, you're probably not going to end up selling many copies of it either way. Publishing it as a tabletop will be the most faithful way to preserve what your dad made, though.
On the other hand, I don't think there's any reason you couldn't do both if you wanted, and use the video game as a tie-in to the module.

>>51900157
This is what I'm talking about, >>51900135

>use it as the basis for something new
No need to. Digitalize that and PUBLISH IT. Make some money for your gramps.

Give us a elevator pitch. What's it about, what does it make it amazing?

And why S&W? You can't go wrong with B/X or Advanced, and that would save you the conversion. Even better, keep it agnostic and just hint the important numbers when relevant.

Making a videogame it's a lot of work and d&d play style isn't well suited for the digital medium - unless you can produce something super organic like nethack.
You can try making a lite version using Twine, perhaps?

>>51900295
>Well, you're probably not going to end up selling many copies of it either way.
Selling or not is a matter of marketing.

>>51900391
This. I feel like an old megadungeon would be very interesting for people within the OSR, but less so with fans of vidya. Then again, if you have a good reason for why it would work well as video game, do tell.

>>51900391
>No need to.
A lot of it is in half-written notes to self and such. It needs a lot of cleaning up at the very least.

>Give us the elevator pitch
A slaver's ship disappears beneath the wave. Several of the slaves who were released from below deck to try and save the ship instead fought their way to a lifeboat, which is now dashed against the rocks, a few survivors having washed up on a nearby beach beneath a jagged cliff. Several feet up the cliff, an entrance to a cave, the only obvious way to escape the rising tide.

What makes it amazing to me is the fact that he built a whole world down there. There are towns and cities, separated by long, treacherous tunnels filled with horrible monsters. It's just a quality-ass dungeon and I feel like I could add a lot in terms of presentation and prose.

>And why S&W?
I dunno. It's what I play.

>Making a video game it's a lot of work
I know. I'm working on becoming better at programming anyway, though, so I figured why not do something fun in the process?

>>51900533
>It's just a quality-ass dungeon and I feel like I could add a lot in terms of presentation and prose.

It sounds awesome. I'd run that.

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>>51900462
>Then again, if you have a good reason for why it would work well as video game, do tell.

>>51900533
Sounds pretty cool to be honest. I'd say that you should clean it up, digitalize it and sell it.

>I know. I'm working on becoming better at programming anyway, though, so I figured why not do something fun in the process?
Maybe you can make online tools for making the dungeon crawl easier? Things like character creators, retainer generators, dice rollers etc.

>>51900533
If you did polishing writeups and put them side-by-side with the original page for page it would be pretty interesting as a way to make it stand out from other products. Basically giving design notes and letting people see how/why you changed it or what you added.

Like the left page being scans of the original and the right page being the new version.

>>51900462
Oh no, anon, I'm a huge fan of roguelikes, but I've dabbed in game dev a few times. I can tell you a simple game can take a year of work without having a playable build, specially if you do it on your own, as a hobby - and d&d mechanics and game balance are very hard to implement.
Trust me, I tried. Several times. If you don't have a few -completed- games under your belt, leave big projects like this aside for the mo.

>>51900533
Clean up is mandatory, even with organized material.

The entrance sounds a bit lame and railroady, does the dungeon interact with the outside worls?
The second of the pitch part sounds amazing. DO IT.

Nothing against S&W, but I think a lot of people would appreciate if you went the BX way, or even system-agnostic.

Two (important) things:
* how are you going to make the organization / navigation of all the material easy to use? (assuming trpg)
* do you have a good artist at hand, or plan to hire one? (both trpg and crpg)

>>51900692
>The entrance sounds a bit lame and railroady
I imagine everyone is already on-board for this thing if the GM is busting out this huge-ass megadungeon. But I take your point and will work on it.

>Nothing against S&W, but I think a lot of people would appreciate if you went the BX way, or even system-agnostic.
That's fair.

>* how are you going to make the organization / navigation of all the material easy to use? (assuming trpg)
I've been thinking about that but haven't worked it out entirely yet.
>* do you have a good artist at hand, or plan to hire one? (both trpg and crpg)
I have a couple artists as friends. I was going to hire them for art.

>>51864187
I like the choices.

>>51864941
This sounds fucking awesome.

>>51864941
But when you get far enough in roguelikes you get to feel like a badass and bust heads like a motherfucker.

Will the players get that if they live long enough?

>>51900734
The entrance is the most important thing. You need to make a good impression, give you a taste of what's inside, and maybe have a couple of quirky rules about when or how to enter.
No problem with just jumping into it, but if you don't have a kool entrance, better leave that for the DM reading you.

>friends
>hire them for art
Based anon. The gods of freelancing work smile upon you.

>organization / navigation
This is key, and a dealbreaker for a lot of people. Even if it's free, I won't use it if it's hard to navigate or reference.
Also, mind how much info you put in - too much fluff and you lose the reader. Long ass stat blocks and they become meaningless.
Simply some color coding and hyperlinked text would improve by x3 most of the adventures out there.

And - you're a coder. Write a wiki for the main areas, or at least make a random generator for the most used bits.

BTW, care to give us a sneak peek?

>>51900887
>care to give us a sneak peek?
It's literally all physical right now. But I promise if I do start working on it, I'll give /osrg/ full access and constant updates.

A wiki is an interesting idea.

>>51900637
Just because there are dungeon-crawling video games, doesn't mean that every dungeon works better as a video game.

>>51900952
Any photographs of the binder?

I understand if it's too personal or not worth the effort, but I love seeing people's old D&D stuff.

>>51901041
Maybe at some point.

>>51901032
That's true, and I understand that >>51900462 was about this Anon's specific dungeon, but since there's a whole genre of dungeon crawlers I think there's definitely a market for it.

Is there a comprehensive list of B/X to Labyrinth Lord changes? Does that one image cover everything?

>>51901133
>Does that one image cover everything?
Yes.

>>51900692
>The entrance sounds a bit lame and railroady
There's nothing wrong with railroading the initial PC party to the entrance of the dungeon for the first session. Strictly speaking it's not even railroading, just premise. Starting the game.

>>51900157
Anon, your grandfather and his dungeon both sound fucking awesome.

If it were up to me, I'd like to see you publish it with just exactly the stats he used — whether those are for AD&D or anything else. If there's clear evidence of house rules, describe those house rules. Just give us the pure shit as much as possible.

The one "revision" type thing I think would be good is if you added ascending AC in the fairly OSR-typical [4/16] format.

>>51901839
Agree with this anon here, but please work on presentation, both layout and design, and information flow.

>>51900887
>>organization / navigation
>This is key, and a dealbreaker for a lot of people.
True.

>>51900692
>>51900734
>>51900887
>>51901839
>>51901899

My vote goes for reworking it into a more polished product, but with sidebars or an appendix showing snippets/scans of the original. Even if it's just for the 'awwh' factor.

Hell, if you need the money this could make a good Kickstarter. It's just inspiring enough to make you some mad bux. Everyone here will pirate it anyway.

i need help fellow DM's. Very LotFP noob here. i have some questions regarding rules
If a character says that his class ability is to safely prepare and cast one 1st level spell per day... what does that mean? that from the random 3 spells he has at the beginning he can only cast one ? so if we were to speak in 5e terms... he has only one spell slot ?

>>51902124
Not even 5e terms, "spell slot" goes back to OD&D.
But yes. He can prepare only one use of one spell before adventuring.

any OSR that is classless or do one of the main tropes different?

>>51895442
What the fuck are you talking about, open Chapter 1 of any version of the AD&D rules and look at the charts for the first time in your life.

>>51902005
>spoiler
Not me, I only collect physical books desu
Too grog for PDFs

>>51895927
Adobe® is the proper way to write that company's name, and the proper way to write its products is by acknowledging the Adobe Corporation's trademark on those names.

>>51900015
A backpack is not a sack - a sack is considerably more awkwardly encumbering.

>>51900055
The last well-playtested D&D product was published in 1974.

>>51900157
Digitise it as accurately as possible to the original and get it out there as an artefact of 80s D&D. Think of it as more of a historical document than a game.

I mean, sure, make a game version if you want, but history, man, even if your granddad was just this guy playing AD&D. Without stuff like that, where would Jon Peterson be? Think of the future historians. Scan it. You can still put a price-tag on it, although really it won't sell much whatever you do.

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>>51902447

That's pretty gangsta, I think.

>>51897919
anyone can use a Magic Scroll if they can read it(which isn't easy since most scrolls are written in the setting's equivalent of Latin*), but it's definitely a lot more likely to work as intended if the reader has magical knowledge/experience

*incidentally this is why high level Thieves automatically know how to read magic scrolls, because as they ascend higher in their Thieves Guild they learn a specialized written form of Thieves Cant that uses the same pseudo-Latin script that most magical scrolls are written in

>>51900157
>or to polish it all up and publish it as a megadungeon (probably marked explicitly for use with S&W).
do this, but also release a scanned version of the original megadungeon(assuming you get permission from him to do so)

also yeah S&W is probably a good choice for the system to convert to, especially if you do it for Complete(which is fairly close to AD&D in many respects)

and lastly you should get some info from your dad on how it went for him and his group, some player side perspective would be good for this

is there something like a jrpg themed OSR?

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>>51900692
>Nothing against S&W, but I think a lot of people would appreciate if you went the BX way, or even system-agnostic.
you act like it wouldn't be really simple to just convert between systems, do remember that most OSR systems have an incredible amount of compatibility, Swords & Wizardry makes a good choice since it's one of the more popular OSR systems(and just had a high profile new edition come out)

>>51902259
Into The Odd is classless, and while Whitehack does have classes, they're done in a way that isn't all that restrictive

>>51902583
Play OD&D or Basic.

Give elves longer, pointier ears.

Have magic crystals.

Congratulations you made an early JRPG.

>>51902658
OK, OK, that's not all you need to do. It helps to add in some random monsters from Gamma World.

>>51902583
>is there something like a jrpg themed OSR?
Ryuutama

>>51902583
B/X. Just hexcrawl back and forth until you've killed/looted enough monsters that you can level up and tackle the dungeon.

>>51902583
AD&D is best jrpg

Anybody here uses descending AC? Benefits of it? Besides having a fixed DC.
I want to use LL but can't even... sounds complex and slow.

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>>51902445
Follow the conversation chain, you troglodyte.

>>51903046
I do, but then I also put the full to-hit vs ac line on the character sheets, so you literally just look at the ac and see what you need to roll. Not using THAC0 makes like much simpler.

I also don't mind players knowing enemy ACs, because frankly in a Basic/OD&D world, they're a fairly small range and fairly well identifiable. 9 for unarmoured, 7 for leather, 5 for mail, 3 for plate. +1 for a shield. A slightly experienced adventurer will be able to tell what AC conventional enemies have to within a point, and the less-common (non-humanoid) stuff is still not too fancy.

Of course, later editions added a ton of clutter with different armour types filling in the "gaps" on the chart, which in turn meant it was harder to listen to a description or look at a figure and see what it was wearing.

Bah, I say. Your armour fits in one of those categories. If it's something weird and unique, use the closest one, you don't have to have AC 6 or something. Consider them None/Light/Medium/Heavy if the specifics bug you.

Huh, that comment got away from me.

>>51903130
And of course by +1 for a shield I mean -1. You use the next line down. 8/6/4/2. But they're named X With Shield on the chart so it's easy.

>>51903130
The only way I can understand descending AC is with target 20. (roll+ac on 20+)
That's what I meant with 'fixed DC', using 20 as a target for all rolls. I don't even know what to do with the to hit chart in the player sheets.

Is thrre something like an OSR game template?

>>51903306
B/X

>>51897919
I'll let everyone use them, but stop making them look like scrolls.

I don't like using 'scrolls' as the one shot spell item. It seems kind of dumb to me. Why is a scroll a one shot spell but a spellbook, which is like a bunch of scrolls fitted together, not full of one shot spells? What makes pieces of paper act as an easier method for spellcasting?

Make scrolls into things like wands or rods or monkey skulls and they're a lot more flavorful and better.

>>51903306
Do you mean a system template or a session template?

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Any good?

>>51903488
>Why is a scroll a one shot spell but a spellbook, which is like a bunch of scrolls fitted together, not full of one shot spells?

Because the binding keeps the ink from being destroyed by the magic flowing through it?

Alternately, because Gygax had scrolls first, and then a munchkin who abused them horribly later.

>>51903508

I'm running it and am loving it. It starts out pretty standard but it gets weirder and cooler the more you descend.

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>>51903488
>Why is a scroll a one shot spell but a spellbook, which is like a bunch of scrolls fitted together, not full of one shot spells?
Gygax's original spellbook rules let you do exactly that. With a % chance to accidentally cast extra spells (or the whole book).

>>51903691
>>51903488
If memory serves, that got removed because people were abusing it to scribe scrolls cheaply.

>>51903501
System

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Is there anywhere to purchase a Labyrinth Lord GM screen or am I stuck with making my own?

>>51903508
It's a solid 7.5/10.

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>>51904012
There's this one with some AEC rules thrown in.

I think they did an official, printed one but it was only ever on Kickstarter. I guess Lulu can't print weird formats.

>>51904097

The Paizo store lists one as having been for sale, but it's been marked "discontinued."

>>51898419
Mentzer basic was less a change and more of an "update" for the companion book coming out.

What is the best way for me run a game without a map, or make the map as the game goes along?

Also, what makes a good first dungeon?

>>51903073
I don't have to fucking follow it because I've been engaged in it ever since your retarded faggot nigger scum fingers typed out the claim that AD&D doesn't allow for Intelligence to influence # of languages known, Strength to influence maximum carrying weight, nor Charisma to influence # of hirelings. You're the worst kind of underage scum hipster. Fuck off. Never reply to one of my posts again.

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>>51904127

"Update" implies it was an improvement, though.

>>51904151
>What is the best way for me run a game without a map,
Don't do this. Even with really good generation tables, don't do this.
>or make the map as the game goes along?
Try your best to avoid having to do this, too.

>Also, what makes a good first dungeon?
Entrances should IMMEDIATELY branch.
The first entrance the PCs find should have 5-8 branches off the first room.
Side entrances should have 2-4 branches, within the first or second room.

The dungeon proper should be a collection of "segments."
A segment doesn't necessarily have easy access between it's rooms,
but you go through choke-points between segments.
(good place to mount a defense, or an ambush, or cover you retreat, etc.)


Also, read Gygax's AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide. And maybe Master of the Game.
I don't care if you're some 4e player who's just wandered in, or even a die hard 3.pfaggot.
Read it.

>>51904274
No, it's not.

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>>51904275
Not even that guy, but go fuck yourself

>>51904463
...meant for >>51904259

>>51904275
Thanks nigga. I'm downloading PDFs to read now. I guess I'll map some shit out-- at least the immediate area, and then bigger stuff more generally.

>>51904151
Check out Dungeon World, it's in the "OSR-likes" folder in the trove.

>>51904529

Actually, one of the things its GM rules say to do is "Make maps, leave blanks." But at the same time, you can definitely get by with just a rough sketch to start with and fill it in as you go.

>>51904529
Here's a better idea: D o n ' t

If you really, really want to dungeon delve narrative based system, use Torchbearer.
Still a bad idea, but at least it's well executed there.

>>51904463
Oh look those things are "from OD&D" and therefore he wants to use those things in his retroclone (read: shit) RPG. They can't be from any other version of D&D nor AD&D, because if something is a part of one version then it can't possibly be a part of another version. You're retarded. You can't fucking read—only read INTO and see things that were never said. Scum sucking nigger faggot.

>>51904274
Which is why I wrote it as "update" since it was definitely not an improvement in our eyes. Just in someone at TSR's eyes thinking they needed to kiddy it down. The Classic D&D Game took that even further down the kiddification hole.
Its not bad though, I like to give Mentzer to people brand new and wanting to learn, but Moldvay for actual game use.

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>>51904601
It's [in] AD&D, no one said otherwise.
But it's not [from] or [of] AD&D.

Is there a better spellcasting system than DCC?

>>51904907
No.

>>51902669
Does that mean most early D&D campaigns with weird monsters are JRPGs now?

>>51904907
Yes. All of them. Because DCC magic is shit.