/osrg/ OSR General - Keeping Things Casual Edition

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>>51767405

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>>51767427

Asking again, for more answers:

Which OSR systems have the crunchiest combat systems? Something with enough options to make combat more tactical while still being OSR-fast.

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Alright so I'm revamping my gun-creation system here in Garden.

Ignore the rest of the doc, I'm going to be rewriting most of it soon. But as of right now, I want to basically change the gun rules so bullets, shells, cartridges, and any other types of munitions are separate from their 'receiver' category as a part. However part of this problem is that, to balance the game, i don't want shotguns to have massive clip sizes.

Currently my ideal solution would be something like a multiplier system. Basically imagine something like a drum magazine style receiver has 6 base capacity and then you add in the munitions;
>Bullets x5
>Shells x1.5
>Cartridges x1

How does this work as a solution? I think it's alright but kind of weak. Any more elegant solutions someone can help me with?

>>51767447
ACKs maybe. It has feats and the like.

Do you have an example of another game with mechanics you liked? Shouldn't be difficult to bolt on extended combat options and moves and that kind of thing.

>>51767665

No OSR examples that I can think of. I like LotfP's options for some martial classes of attacking "defensively" or "offensively". I like having these little options to spice up combat, so things don't devolve to "I roll to attack."

I'm intersted in OSR, but how the hell am I to find the right rules for good old high fantasy?
I like black hack because it gets rid of saving throws and uses stats instead. I ilke the armor rules and combat mechanic (player rolls to hit or to evade, creatures don't)
But it's rather vague on other things and I'd like a better magic system.

Can someone recommend me a similar system, so I can read up a little?

>>51767890

You'll have to make you own at this point. By the time you want to play a system that is mostly 'this other system, but with one thing changed' it's going to not exist, it's something you'll have to make.

If you want to do Black Hack and just cut and paste a different settings magic system, just do it.

>>51767447
Am currently working on a combat system inspired by Codex Martialis to be tacked onto OSR games.
That one should take the cake when it's out, I suppose. Still trying to keep it as simple as possible though.

>>51767890
What exactly are you looking for when it comes to magic systems?

>>51767929
Thats exactly what I wanted to avoid. Well maybe someone can point me in a general direction. Meanwhile I'll leaf through other systems.

>>51769359
Actually I only dislike vancian. So I'm generally just looking around for something a little more flexible like D6 Magic (though nohting so complex). Otherwise a little more flavour like WFRP2e would do the trick I think.

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How do you handle wandering monsters when the party decides to sleep in the dungeon?

What if they're in a fortified/secret location?

If one were attempting to pare down the amount of things to keep track of on the character sheet whilst still maintaining an oldschool D&D feel would it be better to:

a) eliminate ability scores and shift the modifiers onto the individual things they modify.
b) eliminate as many of the other things as possible and fold as much into ability checks as possible.

>>51770049
Option one would be fairly simple to do, especially if you consolidated other parts of the sheet like using the single saving throw Swords & Wizardry uses.
Option two is pretty much The Black Hack.

Ruleslawyers:

How to handle Sleep in BX? The combat example says something about allies trying to get out of the AoE, but the spell lists none - only a 240' range, duration and HD of creatures affected.

>>51770049
A is better. Ability checks aren't made to handle all that weight, but if you look at OD&D (the simplest system, pretty much) abilities are barely used. You could easily just pull them out.

>>51770114
I would argue that a big part of the "feel" of D&D is rolling ability scores and saying things like "I have a 17 strength!"

some stuff I strongly associate with playing D&D specifically, off the top of my head:

STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA.
Rolling 3d6 or 4d6 (drop lowest) to determine those scores.
Saving throws.
Race-as-Class.
gp-for-xp.
Turn undead.
Vancian magic.
Hit Dice and stat blocks.
Rolling d20's, 12's, 10's, 8's, 6's and 4's.
10ft poles and adventuring gear.

And probably more stuff.

The more of those things you remove, the further away from D&D you get. Which isn't a bad thing. Just undesirable in the thought experiment of distilling oldschool D&D to just the elements that make it playable and recognisable as D&D.

>>51770253
as an added thought; most straightforward retroclones still feel like D&D, despite their tweaks. LotFP, S&W, LL, etc. They didn't change much of the core stuff.

But when I see rules-lite(r) OSR-friendly stuff like black hack, maze rats, into the odd, beyond the wall, etc. They no longer remind me of D&D. More like...Advanced Fighting Fantasy.

>>51769842
Have you looked at Wonder & Wickedness? It does interesting alternative approaches to magic. Tricky thing about vancian is it adds resource management to magic which many consider essential. Being able to constantly cast changes a lot of how dungeon exploration works. Not saying don't do it, but its going to make things notably different. What about vancian gets your goat?

>>51770030
>What if they're in a fortified/secret location?
Dice as normal, but some 'encounters' don't result in fights.

>>51770472
Found it in the old thread, but thanks for pointing it out. Really great stuff in there.

Vancian just hasnt got the right feeling for me anymore. You have your spell lists an thats that. I think there has to be a resource management but there are other ways to do it I prefer. I also found DCC and I think spellburn and corruption are great additions as well.

>>51770096
I let my player pick a target and go out by HD affected from there starting with the closest thing that can be put to sleep. The monsters are usually pretty close together so it hasn't gotten weird and jumped an overly large seeming distance. If I had to I'd go 15ft+5 per level from the centre, but that's off the top of my head.

>>51770253
>a big part of the "feel" of D&D is rolling ability scores and...
Referees used to roll *all* the dice. Behind their full-body, face-concealing screen.

Are people still looking for the cc1 creature compendium? I habe it and can upload it later

>>51770628
I wonder if people were lamenting that D&D was turning into storygame bullshit and making the DM's role flaccid and meaningless when players first started being allowed to roll stuff.

Whats a good clone if I want to play a one-shot with my normie friends that will never read a book? My greatest problem is the magic system, I just can't find something simpler than vancian. I know I could make everyone be a fighter or a rogue, but I want some variety

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>>51771550
Steal a spell list from anything and you're done.

>>51771719
Okay, sorry. I was being flippant. Its a bit more complicated than that but not much.

Its a 1 shot so you're not going to level much, so the spells don't have to be complicated.
They don't like to read so having 1 page of rules is a good idea.
Take the spell list from b/x for level 1 spells, copy them onto index cards as scrolls and hand them out at random to the players. Everyone starts with 1 scroll. Take the rest and level 2-3 spells to use as treasure.
Take the items/gear list or copy one onto another index card, let everyone pick 3 things. That's gear.
Ask everyone to make up 1 cool detail about their character.
Tell them the more creative description they give of what they're doing the more you'll have to work with.
Run them through B4.

There we go.

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Is SWN welcome here? I'm getting a campaign ready. We wont be able to roll characters for another week or two due to scheduling issues so in the meantime I'm generating planets and mapping the ship they'll start with.

>>51772233
>Is SWN welcome here?
It's LITERALLY D&D in space so it should be unless the grogs are feeling extra autistic.

>>51770560
>Dice as normal

But every second turn still?

That's at least 20 checks.

>>51772233
Did you make this? I demand more.

>>51770030
>How do you handle wandering monsters when the party decides to sleep in the dungeon?
They get murdered.

Seriously, how would you handle a group of soldiers deciding to sleep in an underground Viet Cong base they hadn't remotely cleared out? It's fuck city. It's impossible and a retarded idea.

If it's just a small like ten-room lair that they cleared out and want to stay in before moving on in the wilderness, of course, that's different. That probably just nets them a bonus to avoid night encounters since they've found a secure lair to sleep in, unless some of the hobgoblins or whatever were out on an expedition and returning home.

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>>51772548

Yep! In google sketchup, it's pretty fast once you get the hang of it. I started with a floor plan I found through some googling and watched some tutorials. Sketchup has a library of models you can drop into your mock up so filling the ship with furniture and cargo was pretty simple.

Then I just exported the plain models as jpegs, threw them into PS, put a blue overlay layer on top, and added text/arrows.

Working on the second deck now.

>>51772605
What if it's the opposite, and it's a huge megadungeon?

Even if there's plenty of foot traffic throughout the night, are monsters really going to check every room (particularly secret rooms), or are they just travelling from A to B?

I feel like this would bring up other issues too. I'm not too fussed about ecology in a fantasy dungeon, but if some wandering ghouls stopped to eat the PCs in room 37, why haven't any ghouls bothered to eat the giant rats in room 19? Or the dead adventurers in room 14 if human flesh is more to their taste.

>>51772605
>le fantasy fucking vietnam meme

dumb grog

>>51770628
>referencing that bizarre anecdote about Gygax hiding behind the filing cabinet
I'm pretty sure that one's a joke/apocryphal.

>>51772524

I think there's a rule in Moldvay/Cook about reducing the number of checks if the party's not moving or something.
I would reduce it to a check per hour if they're holed up somewhere reasonably out-of-the-way. If they hid out in a secret room that had unlooted treasure, I'd probably eliminate the check -- if the room was unlooted, clearly the monsters didn't know it was there.

>>51770030
Easy. If they're in a small room and barricaded the only way in and out, and there are no secret doors into that place, and no ethereal undead or slimes which can just slip in under the door or whatnot, then they should be fine. Maybe a small chance something beastly smells them and starts pounding or scratching at the door, but they should have plenty of time to react to that.

If the situation is not the above, and they keep watch then there's a chance they might not get fucked (but anyone besides the watchman is probably surprised, caught without armor, without benefits of that rest, and so on). If the watchman fucks up then their shit is definitely fucked and they essentially just have their throats slit while they sleep, or paralyzed by ghouls and then eaten, etc.

>>51772524
You don't have to do it every second turn, as they're not walking around, waving torches, making noise, and leaving tracks and their scent everywhere. Three checks for the whole night is fine, corresponding to three watches by possibly three different people.

>>51772757
>What if it's the opposite, and it's a huge megadungeon?
My answer was assuming megadungeon.

>are monsters really going to check every room (particularly secret rooms), or are they just travelling from A to B?
Well, you could roll 48 individual random encounter checks to determine this. Or you could not, and just realize it's fuck city and skip to the part where the players roll new characters.

More specifically, I don't think the monsters are "checking every room" like they expect there to be adventurers there and they're the search patrol, they just pass through going wherever, or they smell the blood of an Englishman, or the PCs happened to camp in the living room, or they... you get the idea. There's also no reason to think secret doors are unknown to the local monsters, and I normally assume the opposite. These are the inhabitants, they'll have found most of that shit by now.

>I feel like this would bring up other issues too.
Without meaning any offense, I think you need to reconsider what counts as being fussed about dungeon ecology. That said, some obvious answers could be:
>the rats scatter when threatened by the ghouls, whom they fear
>on the contrary, the rats are too dense to tell the difference between dead and undead and will immediately start eating the ghouls with no regard for their own safety
>the ghouls eat only human flesh (this is the original definition AFAIK, a cannibal who's become warped into a horrible monster by his abominable appetites)
>only fresh meat will do
>the ghouls DID kill the dead adventurers and eat the parts they liked, and the PCs are next

I mean, for my part, when/if I care about these things I don't generally have corpses just lie around untouched in the dungeon by scavengers, they'll typically be skeletons, or the recent dead being devoured even now, or hung on meathooks in the bugbears' larder or something. Specifically because it's weird that they'd just lie there unconsumed by monsters or vermin.

>>51772524
>secret location
If you roll something that can't detect the PCs, it doesn't fight them.
But tell whoever's keeping watch that it's nearby.

>fortified location
If you roll something that can't reach the PCs, it doesn't fight them.
But it might bash on the door until it gets bored (waking everyone up), or try to negotiate with the PCs, or call for reinforcements.

>That's at least 20 checks.
Lo and behold! Sleeping in dungeons is a bad idea!

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Does anyone have pic related? Is it any good?

>>51773011
>That's at least 20 checks.
>Lo and behold! Sleeping in dungeons is a bad idea!
This, for real. That's the *entire point*, you should look at those 20+ checks and go "ah, fuck, this is a bad plan".

It's weird to me as a longtime grog that people apparently think of camping in the dungeon as so natural and obvious that they question the actual rules before they question the idea. There's tons of shit that's disincentivized by the game! This is what that looks like!

>>51772863
>Three checks for the whole night is fine,
While you're at it, add a roll on the Psionic Wandering Monster chart. In-case anything caught a whiff of their dreams.

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>>51773068
>people apparently think of camping in the dungeon as so natural and obvious
I blame Final Fantasy.

>>51772857
>>51772863
>>51773008
>>51773011
>>51773068

Thanks guys, some fair points.

For what it's worth I'm thinking about areas of the dungeon that have gone unmolested by monsters (ancient treasures still lying around, layers of undisturbed dust, etc.). You do get those in a lot of dungeons and I feel like players should benefit from choosing such a sensible location, but of course there should still be the risk of monsters since you're sleeping in a dungeon.

I think I'll go with a few checks during sleep, perhaps reaction rolls depending on the monsters. Thanks again.

>>51770030
Every dungeon is different.

Factors that would be in their favor:
>bunking with a friendly faction/negotiating safe passage
>fortified or secret location
>keeping a strong watch or otherwise having enough force on hand that nobody wants to mess with you
>the place is big enough or abandoned enough that it's more like an underground wilderness (rather than an active lair).

Factors against:
>there are creatures haunting the place that they don't know about and can't defend against
>not keeping a watch (which probably means keeping a light source going all night)
>bunking down in an exposed location surrounded by unknown foes

For all the posters dismissing the idea out of hand, don't forget that in the Fellowship of the Ring (the book), the fellowship spends several days underground and makes camp in Moria. So at least there's literary precedent.

>>51773011
>If you roll something that can't reach the PCs, it doesn't fight them.
>But it might bash on the door until it gets bored (waking everyone up), or try to negotiate with the PCs, or call for reinforcements.
Another thing you could do here is have the creature simply wait in ambush outside the door. Then when the PCs come out in the morning, BAM, ceiling balrog falls on them.

Any OSR games that would be easy to run on Roll20? I want to start running something online, but I don't want to burn out by running something really dense on top of my regular game.

>>51773748
Pretty much any.

PROTIP: import a dungeon map as an image, use the Align to Grid tool, reveal parts using the fog of war feature.

Alternatively, do the same, keep it on the GM layer, ask the players to map using the drawing tools.

Check out the Old School Adventures series on the Roll20 YouTube, where they run Keep on the Borderlands (still sad Thracia didn't win).

>>51773641
Right, or they could wake up to a band of monsters with crossbows and spears that will let them go in exchange for all their food and weapons (they don't even care about treasure). Depending on the circumstances, it could be a good deal (if they trust the monsters).

I think that if every single adventure site is "fantasy vietnam" it gets stale. Taken to an extreme, it means there's no meaningful choices to make besides "fight" and "run away". Might as well play a videogame.

And it's a rather funny comparison considering 'nam was notorious for being a confusing quagmire of shifting alliances, instead of a straight on fight to retake allied territory.

>>51773748
Into the Odd is my favorite super light game (that's still technically cross compatible). It's got three ability scores and no classes. It's optimized for quick pick up and play (including a setting that's weird, but works fairly intuitively). The rulebook is pretty good, but the author's blog is fantastic.

>>51773890
>or they could wake up to a band of monsters...
Or the wake up geased, without knowing what they need to do.

>>51773066
This looks interesting as a B/X junkie. What is it?

>>51773890
>Right, or they could wake up to a band of monsters with crossbows and spears that will let them go in exchange for all their food and weapons (they don't even care about treasure).
Yeah, I agree. Everything doesn't have to be violence all the time (although it seems like it would be much more likely if the monsters got the PCs at their mercy, yet feared them waking up).

To be honest, I was just amused by the mental image of a balrog waiting patiently for the PCs to finish their nap, clinging to the ceiling like some huge flaming spider.

>>51773968
"B|X Fantasy Roleplay is the ultimate B/X emulator. Based on the 1981 B/X rules, edited by Tom Moldvay, Dave Cook, and Steve Marsh, this booklet consolidates the Basic and Expert Sets into one, easy-to-use booklet. So buy a backpack, light a torch, steady your steed, and wield the B|XFRP rules for an action-pack, exciting evening of fun and adventure, old-school style."

So, single volume D&D B/X. There is a preview available here: https://books.google.nl/books?id=Y0HLDAAAQBAJ&pg=PT83&lpg=PT83&dq=b%7Cx+fantasy+roleplay&source=bl&ots=Qs4PNsEElD&sig=bHiFt4ear93VLlQf5h30pG0xCS8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjOrpfq7JfSAhWHF8AKHUl5CAkQ6AEIMDAE#v=onepage&q=b%7Cx%20fantasy%20roleplay&f=false

Sell me on OSR games, I don't know much about them. Are they typically less bloated than modern ones?

>>51773066
>>51773968
>>51774116
>LITERALLY just an re-edit
>people charge money for this
>people PAY money for this

T$Rcucks are real

>>51774138
Character creation is generally simpler
Combat is more theater-of-the-mind
Very easy to drop in stuff from other TSR editions
Lots of free material
Easy to homebrew

>>51774157
If there is nothing new added I'll just play B/X I may be a TSR cuck but I don't pay for houserules unless they are cool as hell and come with good art.

>>51774116

So it's a single volume version, meaning I don't have to do stuff like explain to newbies every time that they should ignore the Moldvay rules on saves, and use the Cook saves instead, eh? Not bad.

>>51774190

Don't forget solid game structures regarding dungeon crawling, so you have tactical decisions to make at every step of the way, instead of just walking from one "combat encounter" to the next.

>>51774138
The oldest (and lightest weight) OSR is the Little Brown Books.
The referee needs a few extra rules, but here's every rule the players need:
>https://boards.fireden.net/tg/thread/51372372/#51444529

The rest of OSR built up off that. Aside from AD&D, they didn't build very high.

>>51773066
It's literally B/X
Nothing new

>>51774270
A retroclone is nothing new by definition. However, it is the only single volume B/X clone, I think.

>>51774690
Labyrinth Lord is precisely that. Swords and Wizardry is close to it as well. Both distinguish themselves by offering new content (adventures and supplements). There's got to be dozens of retroclones that have fallen by the wayside since the early days that were just B/X with a new magic system, or B/X with some combat moves, or some new monsters.

Is it a good or bad omen for OSR that it's popular enough for this kind of cash grab to be worth somebody's time?

>>51774849
>Labyrinth Lord is precisely that.

No, not precisely that. LL makes a number of changes to B/X rules. Notably, giving clerics spells on level 1, which is a big change to early balance. There a some other small changes as well, so if you want to run straight B/X, you'll have to tell your players you're house ruling those things.
I think there's a reasonable niche for someone to make an OSRIC of B/X, taking the rules and cleaning them up to give them a nice, modern presentation, without mixing in anybody's houserules.

>>51774690
>>51774919
I've been working on my own clone of B/X for my players to make it easier for them to read the rules which will be both single volume and two/three volume (PHB, DMG, and MM, optionally MM + DMG in one), but I haven't had much time to work on it. Once it gets to a usable state, I'll consider posting it here.
Suggestions for a name are welcome.

>>51774947
Interesting! I will be keeping an eye out for that

There are too many games I want to play.
Should I just homebrew a frankenstein of all of them?

The games in question are:
B/X and specific rules from its clones.
Maze Rats.
Over the Wall.
Dungeon Crawl Classics.
Into the Odd.
Advanced Fighting Fantasy.
The Ancestral Trail (collectible illustrated childrens book series that included gaming elements).
Darkest Dungeon (videogame).

>>51776421
sorry, Beyond the Wall. Not Over the Wall.

>>51776446
Second time this mistake was made in two weeks xD I think this is what started the Americana Setting discussion.

>>51776421
just pick the one that looks most interesting to you and play it. if you dont have friends to play with, play solo with both one and a few pcs for a few levels. try prewritten adventures.
do this with all the games until you feel comfortable with each, and you'll maybe settle on one that just feels right, or a homebrew with the stuff you like from multiple systems.

>>51776421
Start with B/X (or Darkest Dungeon, if you intend to referee).

How would one introduce a sanity/stress mechanic that doesn't take away player agency (let them retain control, at least up to a certain point) AND doesn't put onerous roleplaying requirements on them (some players just don't want to roleplay making dumb decisions).

>>51778907
Make PCs check for morale. When they fail a morale check they eat a significant penalty (-1 AC, -1 to-hit, -1 on-hit, and +1 damage when hit?) until they can catch a breather.
Stressful events (poor diet, lack of sleep, psychic attacks, failing a morale check, etc.) give -1 to morale until you get all your shit together (1 week - 1 month of downtime).

>>51779526
I like that.
Also perhaps various ailments that make you cop different types of other penalties.
Like, instead of Kleptomania that says "you have to steal now"
you have Kleptomania that says "make a morale check any time you encounter treasure. A failed check means you must take it or suffer a penalty to ability/skill checks and saves for a day. The value of the stolen treasure does not count towards party xp."

So, first you get a chane to avoid having to do the dumb thing. Then you get a CHOICE to take the penalty for the greater good, or the party gets the choice of sacrificing to help the player out.

Do people in /osrg/ favor fantasy over other genres for the setting of their games?

>>51781979

Well, that is what D&D is best at.

>>51781979
Most of us favor it.
But regardless of the 'main' genre, /osrg/ likes separate genres bleeding in.

>>51782067
>But regardless of the 'main' genre, /osrg/ likes separate genres bleeding in.
Does fantasy bleed? It will!

>>51782080
But that would mean that we can kill it.

>>51782064
>>51782067

I only ask because I wasn't sure what setting genre to run my OSR game in is all.

>>51783136

It's best geared towards a sort of wild west post-apocalyptic fantasy. Think of a gold rush town on the frontier, except the gold comes out of ancient ruins from a lost golden age, and the prospectors are looneys who go down into those monster-infested murder holes and bring the forgotten riches back.

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>>51773187
>It is dark. You are likely to be Dream Eaten by a Baku.

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>>51770728
We most surely are.

>>51770728
That would be neat, thanks!

Thinking about running a hexcrawl wilderness Campaign in the West Marches vein, maybe using OD&D. I'm going to make 6 mile hexes that can be divided into 1 mile smaller hexes and have very basic encounter tables for each hex or hex region (roll d20, 1-4 means goblins, 5-6 means ogres, 8-9 means DM action, you get the idea) and a motivation (roll d20, 1 want to eat humans, 2 want to steal loot, 3 fleeing from some other monster). I wouldn't really have wandering monsters, I'd just have one or two monsters tied to each area. I haven't tried hexcrawling before but I'm trying to get things going.

>>51784336
Also I'd have dungeons in some hexes. I would let the players clear it out if they could, but then it would get taken over by some other monster or bandits or a wizard or cult, or maybe the players could establish a fortress if they had sufficient money to hire guards and repairs, to create a sort of safe-haven for that square.

I need advice on how to better introduce my players to old school role playing after what just happened in my last session.
>first session introducing players to old school D&D using rules cyclopedia
>create characters, takes some time as the players are new to the system and we only have one rule book.
>1 fighter 1 cleric, small party
> start running keep on the borderlands
> players arrive in keep, ask around then set off to go and find the mad hermit.
> walk around in the woods for a bit, but they set off in the afternoon so night falls soon and they make camp.
> set off at dawn, I roll for random encounters.
>tuatara lizard
> describe to them how a giant lizard crosses their path several yards ahead of them but does not seem to have noticed them.
> players attack.
>me: are you sure?
>players:yes
> players attack, miss terribly in the surprise round.
> lizard wins initiative, attacks, takes them both down to 1 HP
> next round, players attack again, then the lizard kills them, even though I give them the chance to flee and make it clear they can do so.
> mfw, played for one hour before players die to a random encounter

Where did I go wrong?

>>51784456
You didn't have them make back up characters. Low level and half strength, they were never long for this world.

Have they played other D&D like substance before?

>>51784456
You had shitty/young/3e.PFbabby players.

>>51784456
You didn't, this is what can happen and it's part of the fun. For new players who are coming from modern RPGs or computer games it may take a while to see this.

>>51784456
That's great, now they've learned that they shouldn't attack stuff all willy nilly.
I hope they rolled new characters and kept playing?

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>>51784353
not this anon, but I've been planning to run my own hex crawl and have been trying to create a system of how random events/encounters happen (and even how to deal with movement)

So here is my current draft. Feel free to steal some of these ideas for yourself, and if you can think of any alterations or improvements to this, please say so.

for clarification. My game will use LotFP rules (the movement is based off its movement and encumberance rules), and the monster tables come from Basic Fantasy.

Any advice for a Space 1889\WFRP 2e/5e experienced DM running Stars Without Number for the first time to-morrow?

I have things laid out and know the rules, but the Old School RPG element seems a bit foreign. My campaigns are always highly sandbox, part of what turns me on about the system, but shrinking AC and 3 classes throw me for a loop. Specifically, good rules of thumb for this 2d6+skill system?

PS, 1 Psychic +1 Warrior + 1 ai (techie skills Voyager armiture to begin) in party, any pitfalls to avoid specific to such a combo?

Questions about Into the Odd. Is there supposed to be any interaction with NPCs/story or is it supposed to be played as a straight Dungeon crawl?

>>51784892
Ooh this looks neat.

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My partner just gave me a copy of Outdoor Survival. That map <3

It's a really pretty map, once you get the whole thing put out on a table at full size. Gonna run a campaign on it.

(photo from bgg)

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>>51785547
Related: a take on Blackmoor, because as we all know from reading ancient grog-tomes the original Blackmoor group moved south from their existing setting (based on a Dutch map) onto the Outdoor Survival one, where "exiles from Blackmoor set up shop after the bad scene at Lake Gloomy."

>>51785576
has /tg/ ever made its own hexcrawlmap? or populated one through board posts?

>>51785547
Also related: https://deltasdnd.blogspot.co.nz/2015/05/helgacon-viii-outdoor-spoliation-3.html

>At HelgaCon in early April, for each of the last few years I've run a medium-to-high-level game (8th level PCs) set on the Outdoor Survival board, using pretty close to the Original D&D rules in Vol-3 for wilderness adventures, which I call "Outdoor Spoliation". The idea is that if the PCs can gather 100,000 sp in the four hours of game time then they'll advance to 9th level, be declared Barons, and get to establish keeps and strongholds.

>>51784529
>>51784552
>>51784599
>>51784856
Unfortunately they decided they would rather play war hammer fantasy role play 2e instead so we spent the rest of the session rolling up characters for that. My god, I even gave the cleric a box of 10 healing potions and he didn't even think of using it. Well, at least I don't mind running wfrp 2e but I would have liked to introduce them to the fun of old school D&D.

>>51785057
Dungeon crawls are better with different factions of monsters, humanoids and things living in the dungeon that the players don't have to, and often will benefit from, not fighting outright.

Into The Odd just suits them being a cabal of humanoid things with glass dome heads filled with mist and lightning instead of hobgoblins. You can try to figure out what they want, trade with them, sneak past, sell them out to the Enlightened Grotesques next floor down. Or just other lost random humans having a really bad time. Half the random encounter table in the Iron Coral is lost humans you can deal with.

Straight Dungeon Crawl doesn't mean no talking, all murder, final destination.

>>51786698
tl;dr the plot is going into the odd and finding weird stuff, all things that aren't pcs are npcs

>>51784456
>takes some time as the players are new to the system and we only have one rule book.
You should have blazed them through that.
3d6 in order, pass them a class list with no descriptions.

There's a couple ways to speed up inventory, maybe hand them presets?

>>51784929
2d6 gives a curve with 7 being the most likely outcome. If you're rolling 2d6+mods+skills and using the guideline in the book they're probably going to succeed with some reliability at things they're trained in but not so much that its a given. Being untrained is much less likely.

2d6+1(stat)+1(skill) against 8 is trying to do a thing you know how to, are trained in, but is pretty hard.

2d6+1(stat)-1(no skill) against an 8 gets harder. And stat bonuses in swon only go up to +2.

It seems like people find it limiting, in that it discourages players from trying things that are outside their character's skill set. ymmv.

>>51784929
>but shrinking AC [...] throw me for a loop

d20 + BAB >= ↑AC
d20 >= THAC0 - ↓AC

It's the same system, just organized differently.

>Any advice for a Space 1889\WFRP 2e/5e experienced DM running [OSR] for the first time to-morrow?
Combat is a failure state.
Make sure the players understand that they want to avoid it.
And make sure they understand that retreat is an option.

>>51767509
That's a cool ass game you've got there. There's a typo on page six tho. Then should be than I think.

My solution to your problem would be kind of lame, but if it were me, I would just cap the number of shotgun shells that could be in a gun. No hassle, shotguns balanced, come up with an explanation later (if anyone asks at all).

>>51784456

Obviously new players. Any experienced hand should recognize "are you sure you want do that?" as a really bad sign from the DM. They'll learn.

>>51785602
I don't know, but this is a good idea.

is far away land in the trove? :v)

I finally uploaded CC1 Creatures Compendium for you guys, sorry for making you wait. I hope Trove Anon adds it to the trove

https://mega.nz/#!QkpzRR5L!nkmsezkSbclIgUbU7tVQr2tsQRKEFSB2jbk423J8pdM

>>51788479
sweet thanks

>>51788479
You are a scholar and a gentleman. He won't because NBD games goes after the Trove like a hawk if their stuff gets posted.

>>51786451
WHFP is cool at least, but yeah, they sound like a box of rocks.

Is City State of The Invincible Overlord in the Trove? If so where would I find it?

>>51789302
I don't know if the original version actually is, but look under Judges Guild in various subfolders, or Wilderlands.

>>51789330
Thanks. Is the rest of the Judges Guild stuff good? I've heard good things about Wilderlands.

>>51767665
>ACKs maybe. It has feats and the like.

Between the Proficiencies adding extra options and the extensive Combat Maneuvers (which ties in with the Proficiencies), plus various class abilities that spin things up, it's remarkably crunchy on a tactical level while maintaining the central D&D "roll, attack bonus, AC" mechanic and not fucking with it unnecessarily.

Also the injury/death/healing rules are frigging awesome and can definitely add a hint of desperation to events.

>>51789398
It's pretty good, and they published some absolute fucking gems in their time - caverns of thracia is wonderful.

>>51788475
yes it is

has anyone play it? how good is it?

>>51785602
I would love to participate in this if we do one.

Has anybody tried to run a DMless OSR game before?

I've been looking into using Scarlet Heroes as a basis for setting up a table based DM and then using some Hippy Dippy Story Game shit to create guidelines for on the fly creative decisions and shit.

Looked at Into the Odd briefly, how does it handle poison? Is there no save?

I know the combat is deadly, but it doesn't seem like there's much too it so I don't know how players are actually supposed to strategize.

I only looked at the one page rules though.

>>51791888
Seems tough. Rulings and all that.

Maybe have 1 (or 2) players handling the random generation,
plus 2 or 3 players (w/ no overlap) handling rulings?

>>51792157
I was thinking of dividing rulings amongst different individuals for certain types of situations or just have a vote among people not directly involved in what's happening on how to handle it.

Generation is mostly easy so far, the one thing I'm concerned about is traps at the moment.

>>51786451
>Get killed in a game, go play WFRPG instead
I have never had a WFRPG game not be lethal as fuck, am I missing something here?

>>51791888

Have you looked at the various GM Emulators out there? They already exist as a solution for "on-the-fly creative decisions and shit."

>>51792239

For traps, I'd just have the players drop a marker anywhere they think they would be an ideal place for a trap, and then resolve whether it's actually trapped or not when somebody walks through it, or passes a detect trap roll if there's a thief around. Then you take it from there with trying to disarm the trap, or re-arm your buddy whose limbs just got sliced off.

I'm reading BX for the first time and I noticed something weird. They say remaining hp is checked AFTER combat is over -- common sense says that once you reach 0hp, you die outright, but BUT-

Am I reading this correctly? Can you keep living and fighting with 0hp, as long as combat continues? Makes sense in a super abstract combat system...

>>51792266
If they think that D&D is supposed to be balanced set-piece combat then the OSR may trigger a "not muh deeandee" response.

By the same token, if they think WFRP is a high-lethality affair then they won't mind a TPK.

It's all about biases and expectations.

>>51792724
And then:
>If both sides tie on their initiative rolls, and combat is simultaneous, it is possible for both sides to be killed!
Makes sense? I think?

>>51792724
Page B25:

> SCORING DAMAGE: The number of points of damage caused by
> a successful attack is immediately subtracted from the number of
> hit points the defender has at that time. All damages remain until
> healed. Any defender reduced to 0 hit points or less is dead.

>>51770627
>>51770096
BECMI has 40ft square, AD&D has 30ft diameter circle

>>51792763
The original meaning for 'double kill' was two people killing each other simultaneously. Why not let your players find out that one the hard way?

>>51794026
>The original meaning for 'double kill' was two people killing each other simultaneously.
There's another meaning?

>>51796318

In certain multiplayer vidjeo games it's used when you kill two dudes in short succession. The multiplayer Quake and Unreal Tournament lines, in particular.

what the fuck happened to trove? I have this new pdf for dcc for him.

>>51797235

Haven't seen him for a while now, the Trove's not been getting updates in months. It might be time for someone else to take over.

>that feel when you've been spending months carefully calculating and making your own ruleset but you're self conscious AF and you're probably just going to play a published game right out of the rulebook instead

>>51798681
Just dump what you've got. We'll never connect it back to you.

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>>51798715

I have two.
First here >>51767509

Then pdf related.

The trouble is I can't be quite sure if I think they're good enough yet, or which one I should use. I'm a bit of a perfectionist in everything except spelling and grammar, so I have a bit of an issue fixing these up.

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>>51786949
>>51787163
Very appreciated friendos.

Most combat was one hit kill, them hit die generated max HPs are a bitch, but thankfully my players rolled high for initiative.

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>>51798812
I made some suggestions on Garden the last time you posted it in /osrg/
Also chipped in a few times when you were making threads asking for setting help.

I really, really, Really REALLY like Unnamed OSR Game. Especially the fighting styles.
I've made a few suggestions to Fighter Progression, IIRC?
Looking at it again, the stats seem pretty irrelevant and the bonuses look lazy (or maybe cliche?)
Maybe run stats like LBB? (str/int/wis ⇒ class aptitudes/bonus xp, con/dex/cha ⇒ bonus traits)


Anyways, they're both doing pretty good?
Maybe add spells to the unnamed one, then start doing monsters? Small RPGS never, ever seem to have those?
People should have stats to compare to when homebrewing/converting monsters. Try to get like a full page of stat blocks.
However much ecology feels right, too... I guess?

Neat to hear those were both you though.

>>51798953

Appreciate the feedback. What feedback did you give for Garden? I probably forgot to implment it or right it down, since it's mostly the same game since I last posted it.

>I really like Unnamed OSR game
Hey thanks! Once again I'm pretty self conscious about it, but I also enjoy many aspects of it.

>Stat blocks seem lazy
You're right, originally I was going to do a meme combat system where you rolled 2d10 to fight with, so I wanted modifiers to be smaller since they were more impactful. However I kind of like the low +1 or +2 number because it makes stats matter a little less, but still makes really standout characters cool. I never heard of that LBB system before but I'll look into it.

The other real problem with the game is that both Fighters and Rogues have a great progression system that characters can choose what to be good at or where to improve but my Mages sadly are lacking in this department. This is where a lot of weakness from my development side comes in, unsure how to implement magical 'feats' for Wizards that don't break the game.

>Add monsters. Small RPGs never seem to have those

Good point.

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>>51799103
Little Brown Books:
• Men and Magic
• Monsters and Treasure
• Underworld and Wilderness Adventure
(i.e. OD&D sans any supplements)

Gonna run Into the Odd tomorrow on roll20 for some friends, but there aren't any character sheets in there. The default one doesn't seem to have an items tab, only attributes and abilities.

Is there another template I could use? Or an easy way for player to keep track of their items?

>>51799182

When you return; could you also remind me what you suggested for Garden? Would appreciate. I need to rework that one too.

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I'm compiling a Holmes add-on with extra monsters. Should I include an entry for Amazons?

>>51797235
>DCC
Which files do you have?

>>51799890
Just write the items into the Bio part.

>>51792136
It uses roll-under ability saves. Usually a dex save to avoid a hazard if they didn't notice it, or a luck roll if its happening.

The full rules have extrapolation and examples.

>>51801427
Why not? It's a classic D&D enemy after all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0iHzES8W3o

Which basic edition had the nifty Choose Your Own Adventure introduction?

>>51803045
Mentzer.

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What's /osr/'s opinion on Basic Fantasy?

>>51803438

It's awesome.

>>51803438
Poor layout, but it's a solid game especially if you want to separate race from class. I also still like how you can get your whole table their own copy of the rulebook for around the same price of one copy of another game's rulebook.

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>>51803438
Tied with LotFP for best OSR system imho. My only complaints is that I wish the layout and art were better, and that they had higher quality modules for it on Dragonsfoot.

So if I want to look at ACKS for the domain system, what's the current way to do it? Is there a version of the core rulebook with unfucked domain rules now, or a complete supplement or something?

>>51803438
I don't like it

>I prefer race-as-classes
>Levels go way too high, level cap should be at max 16
>Thief is still shit
>Adds nothing new
>Book doesn't have a lot of art (and the art that it has isn't very good)

I see no reason to play this instead of another clone except for the fact you can buy physical version for cheap.

>>51801427
Yes, and have them ride dinosaurs and be really dumb and shit so players can trick them and make them ride their dinosaurs off a cliff.

So OSR, I'm about to start DMing a game using B/X rules. I've played D&D but never DMed and I have a party that's never played anything tabletop. I wanted to run through some of the modules in the mega to get everyone antiquated with the game. Are there any easier ones to run that are recommended? I'd like to prepare a series of 4-6 modules in increasing minimum party level for us to play through.

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>>51804065

Well, there's this.

>>51804085

I'm with you; not a fan. It's okay, but between race-and-class and the high level ranges, I'm just not interested.

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>>51804918
>get everyone antiquated with the game

Clever!

>>51804918
B4 can be a great start. I set it up as an intentional expedition to some ancient ruin although the party was still lost and low on provisions.

My group wanted to try AD&D1e and I agreed to DM. Now I'm reading through the books and holy fuck am I overwhelmed. The layout of this is atrocious and scattered everywhere, I'm constantly needing to flip back to the table of contents and index because there is absolutely no rhyme or reason to the layout. Also needing to look at the DMG to make a character sheet seems like a poorly thought out decision.

Has playing too much 3.5 rotted my brain or is my complaining valid?

>>51805878
AD&D a shit. Play b/x.

>>51805878
Just take B/X and bolt on the stuff from AD&D 1E that you like.

>>51804918
B2 (Keep on the Borderlands) is a safe starting point, especially for new referees.
Once you're all starting to get in the swing of things... maybe Maze of the Blue Medusa?

>>51805878
Use 2e instead, it's better organized.

Or you can use a B/X or BECMI-style rules set and bolt on stuff using the Advanced Edition Companion.

>>51805878
2e was written by a stiff, but the differences are minor and it's better organized.
So you don't accidentally mess up on the differences, read through OD&D (w/ all 6 supplements) afterwords.

THEN try reading AD&D.
The organization will still be bad, but at that point you can intuit things instead of looking for the unspecified companion passage (halfway across the book or in another book, or sometimes non-existent).

>>51805889
>>51805917
>>51805961

How is it that AD&D is confusingly written and laid-out, but B/X is so clear? The prose and organization are so good that I sometimes forget just how old the books are.

I know AD&D came out a couple years earlier, but in terms of how to write and design a rulebook they feel decades apart.

>>51805878
Labyrinth Lord's Advanced Edition Companion attempts to give you the options of AD&D with the simpler core system of Basic. I think it only partially succeeds, but regardless it's a good deal more accessible than AD&D. Also, it's designed to be compatible with Labyrinth Lord's core rules, so if you wanted to start with a Basic D&D clone, and later add in more options (i.e., move to the AEC rules) once you found your feet, you could do that.

>>51806077
Gygax wrote AD&D, and Gygax believed himself to be the next Jack Vance.

>>51805224
>>51805935
Thanks, I'll check them out. After a quick glance, it seems like B2 would be great for a first time party, but Blue Medusa is definitely interesting.

>>51806077

Different teams, or to be more precise, Basic had a team behind it, Advanced was pretty much just Gygax doing it alone.
There's a lot of interesting stuff in the AD&D 1e books, but I wouldn't want to use it as a reference. 2E or OSRIC is better suited to that.

>>51806125
Also, the objectives were different. AD&D embraced additional information, and was okay with tangents and rambling musing and so forth. The mission statement of B/X was pretty much to keep things simple and accessible.

>>51806077
>How is it that AD&D is confusingly written and laid-out

Well, dear reader, the writing style of E. Gary Gygax has a tendency to bloat into unnecessary verbosity due the idiosyncratic nature of the humble author's writing style.

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>>51804918
>but never DMed
General advice: Repurpose "skipped" prep, it's not a retcon (or even part of the continuity) when things that were never mentioned to the PCs get changed.

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This is only vaguely related to the OSR, but I put together a version of the first Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser Volume: "Swords and Deviltry", in case someone is interested and never got around to find a pdf copy.

>>51808156
Thanks, Anon! I've been wanting to get into reading Lieber.

>>51808484
Whoops. Phone keyboard.

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>>51808484
Not that Anon, but here's the first book:

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Occultesque-Anon here. I'd make a full image for this week's update but it's a bit long and not a straight 1d100 chart. Check it out if you want, it's a few tables for generating a weird plague.

http://www.occultesque.com/2017/02/the-ashen-plague.html

>>51808575
Yeah, that's the version I used to put this together.
Although I already found some paragraphs with issues.

Rolled 5, 2, 4, 1, 2, 6, 2, 1, 2 + 1 = 26 (9d6 + 1)

>>51808579
(ignoring die No.8 if Mortality Rate is only rolled once)

Rolled 4 (1d20)

>>51808891
>+ 1
...That was supposed to be 1d20?
Guess it only rolls one type.

>>51806077
Honestly B/X feels like it could have been written yesterday. Modern designers pale in comparison to Moldvay. What was his secret to being nearly 40 years ahead of his time?

Guys, how do I name my homebrew?

like how the fuck do you name these things?

>>51808921

My guess would be lots of time dealing with the wargame design. I look at wargames today versus RPGs today and the designers of the latter often look like hacks blithely copying bad ideas from each other.

Whelp looks like I rolled just about everything religious.
(except the encounter and maybe the prophetic hallucinations?)

>>51808891
Cause: An ancient deity that has grown angry at the populace for their sins
Cure: Enough prayer to bring divine intervention
(hey >>51808579, why do these two tables not end sentences in periods?)

Duration: One month.
Delivery: Miasma. (Airborne, but only in foul-smelling areas)
Symptom: Bone-like growths from spine.
Symptom: Constant sweating, smells sickly sweet.
Mortality Rate: 30%
Temporary Treatment: Clean water, must be blessed.

>>51808903
Encounter: Body collectors gathering the dead, with chained flesh-eating ghouls in tow.

>>51808921

AD&D was a compilation. B/X was a distillation.

>>51808980
I'm gonna blame the poor punctuation on my editor. He's been executed, and I've hired a new one for next week. Also, thanks.

And it might be best if thou prepare thine soul to be shriven, for thou hast contracted the most religious of plagues.

>>51809081
>shriven
Yeah, not gonna beat around the bush here: If I'd read my roll before doing the d20, I'd have just skipped it and picked encounters 6 & 8.

>>51808970
Though I do agree with you, I'll elaborate that it wasn't necessarily the wargame experience but merely how diverse his playing interests were. Not always, but it feels as though most RPG designers stick to a certain few RPGs instead of exploring everything under the sun and playtesting any and everything they can get their hands on. Things certainly were different in the pre-digital age and it wasn't rare to dip your fingers in 10-20 different systems to really get a good idea of things that worked and get a handle on design theory. On top of that there just wasn't the same culture then as there is now, different groups that although playing the same game used VASTLY different house rules and not really a "standardized" playing field like we have today with extreme market domination.

I believe that although the hobby has drastically expanded in quantity of players and available rulesystems - the quality of players who enjoy sticking to the same game without budging has rubbed off on the designers who most likely only play the same game and seek to "fix" it without a real idea of what exactly is fundamentally wrong with it and what has done it better. It's probably not uncommon for the modern designer to have played 5 different games in his lifetime which is not nearly enough to get a firm grasp on design philosophy.

>>51809121
Not gonna lie, I do that all the time. I love reading through other people's 1dx tables and cherry picking my favorites. If I do roll, I often end up tweaking things to fit my style anyways. I think they're -best- for 'inspiration' rather than actually generating something that's useful right out of the gate, but if they don't function immediately after rolling, then they're kinda trash, right?

>>51785602
I'd be down for it. Some large enough a few petty kingdoms could exist in but with swaths of wild lands, hidden glens, ruins and more, yet small enough to be traversed some by a party of adventurers or armed caravan.

Going with the god tier 6-mile hex, maybe something like a 50x50 hex map?

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When you make dungeons, does every room have cool and interesting stuff and encounters, or are there intentionally less interesting and even boring rooms and encounters? I've tried making every room in a dungeon I'm working on right now have some interesting and unique thing, but it's really straining my creativity and it's becoming more and more ridiculous that every single room is intended to be super interesting.

>>51810098
I'd recommend checking the 1E DMG for the percentage of empty rooms it recommends. You may get a better feel for what's acceptable and what's not.

>>51810063
>50x50
>6-mile hex
90k square miles sounds about right
The whole of Great Britain is ≈94k

>>51810098

Yeah, you should absolutely have some empty rooms in there. Seconding the 1e AD&D DMG, Gygax's advice in there is good.

>>51810150
>90k square miles
That's 77950 sq. mi., 50-by-60 would take you to 93540?

>>51810098

Define empty and interesting.

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>>51810150
England alone is 50,301 sq miles. The map size I suggested would equal approximately be 90,000 sq miles, slightly larger than Great Britain.

The size would mean there could be a very good blend of physical regions, a human kingdom or two, an elven forest, halfling shire, dwarven enclave and holdings of various monsters as well as plenty of space for several competing dragons, assuming each has a maximum territory of 8 to 10 squares, as well as provide sizeable swaths of the territory littered with ruins, mountains, desert, woods, and more.

>>51810098
How big a dungeons are you making? Lower level ones can be fairly small and interesting set pieces (a simple mine, a collapsed castle, etc) while the higher level ones tend to be the more fantastical (Frost Giant glacial rifts, vampire abodes many stories tall and deep, dragon lairs filled with kobold traps, magical wards and more).

>>51810278

That one goblin in the back is all "Whoa, watch the spear, there, Glibnatz! You almost took my nose off!"

>>51810125
>>51810218
I'll check it out. Thanks!

>>51810263
Empty: a room with barely any important elements and/or challenges, with its most prominent interesting feature being its connection to other rooms and hallways.

Interesting: A room that adds further elements and/or challenge to the dungeon crawl. Things like new information, game system challenges, and fictional-positioning challenges.

>>51810063
Alright, I just need to commit to how many hexes would be mountains, hills, forests, plains, desert, sea/lake and blasted lands of warped magic and such (like Barovia maybe?)

>>51810639
Barovia is perfectly ordinary Romanian countryside if you ignore the mystical fog borders.

So I'm reading through the Blue Medusa and I'm finding the descriptions TOO vague. What the hell is a Crack beast? The voodoo lady had a zombie mushroom? The art is incredibly abstract and I'm struggling to make heads and tails out of some of the encounters.

>>51810737
>What the hell is a Crack beast?

Good question! Is it related to one of these?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYxLZMnVygc

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>>51810278
Hex length is edge-to-opposite-edge, a 6-mile hex is 31.18 sq. mi.
Some people (mistakenly) treat it as corner-to-opposite-corner, which would give you 23.38 sq. mi. hexes.

You seem to be assuming 36 sq. mi. which would require 6.45-mile hexes (7.45 mi. along the diagonal)

>>51810737
I think the idea is that you take the description and the art and use it to create your own idea of what it is. That way it ensures that every DMs maze is a bit different.
Personally I imagine the Crack Beasts as dark, hunchbacked humanoids who shed their skins by cracking. Perhaps they were normal-looking humans or similar at some point, but hundreds of years of skin shedding has turned their body murky and their senses childlike.

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>>51810329
They haven't got noses...

>>51810913
You see, Glibnatz? That's what happens when you aren't careful with your spear.

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>>51810950

This guy gets it!

>>51810870
So it would be closer to 77,950 sq miles approximately for a 50x50 6-mile hex map. Still pretty big.

>>51811055
c >>51810234

>>51811170
I just saw that, thank you.

Hi /osr/, just here to ask a question:

Are there any OSR-style games that are

>relatively easy to learn or rules-light
>adaptable to the Elder Scrolls setting
>possibly capable of mixing with UESRPG

?

>>51811673
>relatively easy to learn or rules-light
Any B/X clone is easy to learn. MicroLite is the most rules-light, followed closely by The Black Hack.

>adaptable to the Elder Scrolls setting
Any of them. In fact, I'd make all the different types of men and mer into racial classes.

>possibly capable of mixing with UESRPG
Huh?

>>51811724
>MicroLite

That's not a B/X clone, though, is it?

>>51811764
The 81 version is

http://www.retroroleplaying.net/page/microlite81#standard

>>51811724
Am noob, what is B/X?

>>51811959
Basic/Expert

Anyone have experience running Gamma World? I wanna give it a go. Shit looks badass.

>>51811959
The 1981 version of Basic and Expert, not to be confused with the 1983 version, which is the BE of BECMI.

>>51812006
What edition? There are 7.

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>>51812006
Wait for MCC.

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>>51812006
I love Gamma World, but it goes all over the place with its editions. I just stick with Metamorphosis Alpha with stuff I enjoy from GW 1 and 2 E thrown in, usually. The mechanics are all pretty similar between those three. And quite frankly I find running games inside a giant generation ship more fun than post-nuke earth. It's a bit easier to define the playing spaces.

>>51811673
>relatively easy to learn or rules-light
c >>51774267

>>51811959
OSR versions/editions (sans retroclones) are:
>Original D&D
• LBB (OD&D sans supplements)
• OD&D (LBB w/ all 6 supplements)
• Holmes Basic (yes, this is the right spot)
>Basic Line
• B/X (Moldvay Basic, Moldvay/Cook Basic)
• BECMI (Meltzer Basic, BECM)
• RC (Rules Cyclopedia)
>Advanced Line
• AD&D (Gygax shat this out)
• 2e (arguably not OSR)

>>51812128
>>51811724
Why do you say LBB and not Microlite?

Note that I'm basically a 40kid, never really played RPGs, I'm trying to get my foot in the door and I think I can more easily rope my normie friends in with the attitude of OSR.

>Running an open table hexcrawl game that has 6 regular players and 4 ocasional ones.
>No current living wizards
>No one wants to play a wizard anymore

How to make wizards less sucky at lower levels?

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>>51811673
Honestly, the Black Hack is about as simple as it gets. And while it's personally little TOO simple for my tastes, it could be a good place to start.

Someones been developing an Elder Scrolls RPG for a bit now. Not OSR, but looks neat.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B2KESbIjtwHsMGZIbU1oUEktTE0

>>51812296
Use DCC wizards.

>>51812173
MicroLite is not D&D, and was not released by TSR.
>OSR versions/editions (sans retroclones)
Sans means "without," so that's OSR options that aren't retroclones.

c also, >>51799182

>>51812353
>an Elder Scrolls RPG

That's UESRPG, the game he's talking about. It's Runequest-based. (Which struck me as an odd choice, since The Elder Scrolls began its life as a D&D campaign)

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>>51812549
Runequest and Warhammer based, with a few touches of other games in there as well.

And that link is for the 2nd edition. Seht (the main guy making it) is busy making the 3rd edition of it now. Here is the link to the WIP that is 3e UESRPG

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pTgTN2aJUoY95JtquowagfUJLL7tCQYhzJKcCAcbvio/edit

>>51812686
>tfw no senche-raht waifu to carry you into battle

>>51811804
Is there a way to make this into point-buy? I dislike the unreliability of rolling and I don't think my friends would care for it.

Just give em 45-50 points to spread around?

>>51812747
>I dislike the unreliability of rolling
OSR isn't for you.

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>>51811055
And here is an attempt, though larger at 60x60 hexes, I made a while back. Most of the main population lives in the south with smaller pockets the further north you go. I removed the names and such from this so you all are more than free to steal and use at your leisure.

>>51812760
That's how it's generally done but is it the best?

I'm not doing it for ">muh old school" necessarily, just figure this is an easy place to start TRPGs for Skyrim-lovers that enjoy bashing heads and killing zombies.

>>51812353
Ever played the first two TES games? They felt pretty damn AD&D to me, right down to literally rolling your character's stats. I remember reading somewhere TES started out as one of the dev's D&D campaigns, so that makes some sense at least.

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>>51812787
Here is the thing: Character death is very frequent in old-school rpgs. Very. Your players are gonna put all this effort and energy trying to "powerbuild" with a point system some perfect character only to get butthurt when they bite the dust.

If I was you, I'd just say they could roll 4d6, and drop the lowest. Do that 6 times, and have them put the numbers into whatever attribute they want. That's meeting in the middle, imho.

>>51812873
I'll try everything out and see what sticks I guess.

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>>51812846
The game was originally going to be about your character and a small team of fellow warriors going around from Arena to Arena to fight as gladiators. They realized they could make the game larger so they added side-quests for things to do outside of training and combat and those proved far more fun. Later into development, they realized they focused a lot more effort on the side-quests than the arena combat so they took out the old arena story, smacked in one about a battlemage taking over the empire and you needed to retrieve pieces of an artifact (akin to Link in Zelda acquiring the pieces of the Triforce) and a guy who was making the game decided they could use his D&D homebrew setting for it. It really wasn't until Morrowind that the game made a massive (and I mean massive) departure from it's D&D past, shaking everything up about how one would perceive the setting.

>>51812747
>>51812747
>Just give em 45-50 points to spread around?

Are they starting at 0 or 10? Is it 1-for-1 or staggered?

Gotta think about this stuff more.

>>51813603
>Are they starting at 0 or 10?

Levels? Probably 1.

>Is it 1-for-1 or staggered?

wat

>>51813739
Does spending one point increase your ability scores, or do higher scores cost more?

>Levels?
No, starting ability score.

>>51805878
AD&D is best as inspiration. Something to read and occasionally steal a few bits from.

>>51810278
>plenty of space for several competing dragons, assuming each has a maximum territory of 8 to 10 squares
Some may be coastal and eat sea monsters or shit like that, so effectively take up fewer land hexes.

>>51805878
>Has playing too much 3.5 rotted my brain
Probably not, but I wouldn't rule it out.
>or is my complaining valid?
Your complaints are absolutely spot on.

>>51812083
Also Kev Crawford's Other Dust, which is kind of a Gamma World, ish.

>>51812296
Give them a wand and stand back.

>>51805878
>Also needing to look at the DMG to make a character sheet seems like a poorly thought out decision.
That was a VERY thought out decision... that no longer conforms to common practices.

Used to be the DM rolled the dice. ALL the dice. Even the char-gen dice. All behind the screen.
The DM was completely behind the screen too. You couldn't see him, it was a BIG screen.

>>51814020
The sea monsters have better stats than the dragons do tho.

>>51812908
>It really wasn't until Morrowind that the game made a massive (and I mean massive) departure from it's D&D past, shaking everything up about how one would perceive the setting.
A lot of which came from them locking a writer in a hotel room with *ahem* tobacco and alcohol, and giving him a deadline. He may have slept at some point.

>>51814067
Then they probably eat fish, birds, seals, and boats.

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>>51814090
>>51814020
>>51810278
By RAW, a Dragon can get from anywhere to anywhere in a 50x50 map in like 4 days.
2 days, if they start at the center of the map.

>>51814123
Yeah, but that's not the territory they generally hunt in. Their regular range is far lower than the distance they can travel if they specifically want to fuck someone up, or go fuck another dragon who's been leaving them sweet notes and flowers and deer carcasses.

>>51813761
start at 0 and 1-for-1

>>51814220
They can still go 12 hexes out and back in a day.
Even if we're generous and say, "the own everything 9 hexes out from their nest" that's still 217 hexes.

>>51814295
>At 45 points that's:
3 Strength, 3 Intelligence, 3 Wisdom, 15 Constitution, 3 Dexterity, 18 Charisma
>At 50 points:
As above, +1 Strength and +4 Prime Requisite

>>51814376
Microlite only has STR, DEX, MIND, and CHA

>>51814409
Ah, we're talking about so.a thing else?
High CHA probably isn't as broken over the knee then.

Seems like a lot of points for four attributes.

>>51814444
>those numbers

Standard system they have is 3d6 drop lowest.

>>51814479
In anon's case, that's 4/4/4/4 = 12

>>51814326
Then there are only a handful of established dragons in the area with several transient ones that are quite young and trying to finds their own territories.

>>51814326
With 5-mile hexes there's no real reason why the dragon would ever leave its hex of origin unless something extraordinary was happening, though. Think Smaug.

>>51812128
>2e (arguably not OSR)

I've seen so many OSR players argue against including 2e under the label of OSR, but why? Mechanically and mathematically it's almost 100% compatible with OD&D.

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I need OSR-style Mage feats that aren't shit.

>>51816655
They have spells, they're fine

>>51817353

Good job, you made absolutely sure that I need something other then just spells to make them good.

>>51814326
12 hexes as claimed territory, the edges of which may be disputed, and which both dragons may be studiously avoiding testing - they'll claim it, and if the other encroaches they'll carefully not notice unless they're actively pissed off, and then they'll fly out and parade around a week later, coincidentally missing the interloper. Because dragon fights are bad times.

9 hexes as normal territory, because they're not going to travel to the extremes of their range regularly.

6 hexes on a regular basis, because they're dragons, and therefore lazy.

3 hexes most of the time, because that's far enough for most trips - they won't be going out daily, because they're dragons, and when they do they're unlikely to want to spend the whole day out. I mean, honestly, you go out, you hunt, you eat, you dive into a lake and paddle around, you acquire treasure, you burn a thing or two, but you're not going to work a full eight hour day.

I imagine they mostly nap, sleep, or snooze.

>>51816628
Take a look at the advice it gives DMs and the modules for 2e.

Anyone can recommend a module with a lot of great social encounters?

>>51819175
Maze of the Blue Medusa

>>51819211
How well does it run for first level parties?

Can anybody give me critical failure charts?

>>51819299
Perhaps. But no one can give you good taste.

>>51819175
B4 The Lost City

In B/X, by the book, M-Users and Elves:

-Have limited casts per day, per class table
-Have a spellbook that noone else can read without Read Magic, that contains a # and level of spells equal to what you can CAST each day, per class table. Your spellbook is tied to your daily USES like a fixed gear bike.
-Can cast only known/learned spells.
-Need to be taught new spells by NPCs, spending a week, only when they level up. Alternatively, research new spells, that are added to YOUR spellbook.
-Can read other caster's spellbooks using Read Magic.
-Have NO LIMIT of learned/know spells. You can also learn spells from other casters' spellbooks, but you need said book to memorize those spells, since you can't copy spells.

Correct?

>>51819413
You seem about right.

Note that scrolls containing spells have to be Read (Magic) before you can cast off them, but you can cast off them at a later date than the Reading.

I don't recall how it works BTB, sorry, but I generally have researching a new spell switch out one of the old ones in your spellbook.

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>>51816655
>I need OSR-style Mage feats that aren't shit.
For what purpose? OSR classes tend to be pretty rudimentary in terms of mechanics, and magic-users already have far more options than most classes due to their spell selections. If you're concerned about their lack of power or options at beginning levels, maybe you should give them cantrips instead of feats.

Forgive me for being dumb but I'm looking at a roll table and it's numbered 1-16, but it says to roll (d8, d6). How am I supposed to roll it?

>>51819515
Cool thanks. I sort of like the simplicity implied by a literal read, where casters have only one spellbook and each level they have to pick super carefully what spells they want.
First, for simplicity. Making a caster is rolling a handful of spells and that's it, no 'spellbook economy' so to speak. Wizard libraries are still full, since they have to be extra picky about what they learn.
Second, you get super specialized wizards with a few signature spells like a light-fireball-illusion Gandalf, which is cool.
In this case, Read Magic would be used mainly for scrolls, and knowing what spells other casters can pop at you. Kinda lame, imo.

Capturing enemy spellbooks and collecting spells seems to be a thing in all other editions, but B/X is totally silent about this except in the Read Magic description...

>>51819711
>Forgive me for being dumb but I'm looking at a roll table and it's numbered 1-16, but it says to roll (d8, d6). How am I supposed to roll it?
That's pretty uncommon, but they way you'd do it is:

roll the d6:
1-3 = take d8 at face value
4-6 = d8+8

>>51819855
The d6 is just being used as a coin flip, basically, to let you know whether the d8 is covering the 1-8 range, or the 9-16 range. Instead, you could always just roll a d20, and reroll any result over 16.

>>51819328
nigga you ice cold

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>>51816628

This is one guy's detailed opinion, and gives a pretty good overview of the argument.
I'd say you can run OSR in 2e, but you have to be aware of where its rules have changed, so you can change 'em back.

>>51819752
Fixed-gear MUs are very limited but fun. They also remove Quadrantic Wizard issues, keeping all classes more or less in check.

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What music can I pair with

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CQH0TqOxII

That still has that OSR feel?

>>51819928
I feel as though the system and fluff are only a small fraction of OSR, a good GM can make just about any fantasy system have the OSR feel. I've played in 5e and Pathfinder games with old school GMs that have captured the essence of retroclones better than retroclones themselves.

I know I'll be met with disagreement, but it really is more mindset than ruleset.

>>51821026

Oh man, Argus is a great album. Let's see, something from that era. Hey how about this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yGKt65hTItU


>>51821133

It's more than fluff, though that image doesn't go into it in detail. 2e also speeds up movement in the dungeon to be "more realistic" which throws the game balance out of whack, and there are a number of other small changes that make the tactical end of things go a little pear-shaped. (Not as bad as later games, where it's non-existant, though)

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>>51821177
That's pretty good. I think it's missing that ultra-clean sound though.

On the other hand, I could use it as bridging track to something like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKWTS_DDgYM

Which is very, very OSR, but in a different way. Crank the volume if you're going to listen to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BllIODb81Q8

>>51819413
>-Have NO LIMIT of learned/know spells.
I don't think this is correct. I read the rules BTB to be that in B/X you can only know "a # and level of spells equal to what you can CAST each day" as you said yourself.

Does anyone have the DCC Lankhmar stuff?
I'm curious at how they handled a lack of clerics and different magic system, mechanically.

>>51821468
>"Each magic-user and elf has a spell book for the spells that he or she has learned. A first level character will only have one spell (a first level spell) in the spell book. A second level character will have two spells (both first level) in the spell book..."

Your spellbook is limited, not you - it's actually encouraging you to find more books if you want to have a variety of spells available.

>>51822608
I think that's a bit too convoluted a reading. It's a good rule (like you say, it encourages players to seek out other wizards' grimoires), but I doubt it was how Moldvay intended it to work.

>>51819413
>>51819515
>>51819752

Is Read Magic required for scrolls?

I remember thinking it was a pretty weak spell but come to think of it, it could be an awesome way of playing a magic-user. Read Magic lasts a turn so you could probably read multiple scrolls in that time (or on non-adventuring days if your DM says it takes a turn per scroll). Then you can use them later at any time. So a lucky first level magic-user could cast a whole bunch of spells per day if they looted enough scrolls.

I just love the idea of a wizard hoarding one-use-only scrolls instead of memorizing and preparing the same few spells every day, even when they can just learn other spells. Of course this only works if there are enough scrolls littered about the campaign, and it's not as fun if the DM decides any MU can decipher scrolls.

How ok would you be with a barter system that was similar to a reaction roll table (modified by CHA)? A player makes a decent enough offer in goods and the DM rolls 2d6 and consults the table.

>>51822608
Pretty sure you [Read Magic] captured spellbooks to transcribe spells, not to memorize them. You memorize from your own spellbook.

>>51823064
I'd be interested.

But as well as "Offer refused", "Item sold for -10% value", etc. I'd like some more interesting entries too. "Shopkeeper calls the guards, -1R", "Item sold for half price and PC learns a valuable rumor", stuff like that.

>>51823006
>Is Read Magic required for scrolls?
Yes, explicitly. That's actually its main purpose.
>you could probably read multiple scrolls in that time
Yes, explicitly. Just about as many as you'd like.

But in an edition with really, REALLY good 1st level spells... [Read Magic] is your most underwhelming choice.
You'll probably only have it prepared once, or not all if you rolled some of the juicier spells.

So you have a trade off on *when* to cast it.
Identify (and potentially use) these scrolls now? Or wait 'til you have more scrolls to identify?

>>51823113
It's what I've been integrating into my post-apocalyptic hack Ruinations.

2 is outright "Get the fuck outta my shop." 3-4 is trade refusal. 5-8 is an agreeable trade. 9-11 is agreeable trade+extra (item, rumor, advice etc) and 12 is them basically giving the item away (DM says why).

>>51823091
As I understand it, you can't transcribe or copy in any way. When you level up, you spend a week with a teacher NPC and poof, your spellbook grows. End of it.
If you want more spells, capture more spellbooks, Read Magic them, and learn their spells with a teacher. Then you can memorize and cast normally.

>>51823064
>How ok would you be with a barter system that was similar to a reaction roll table
Fully.

>>51823289
>post-apocalyptic
In that case I think you've hit on basically the best way of doing it. I presume there won't be any non-barter-based system of exchange anyway, so making it complicated JG-style would just get fucking annoying after awhile.

>>51823476
I had "scrap" in mind as an arbitrary form of monetary value, but I'm liking it less and less.

"Treasure" (rare artifacts, items or weapons) found have a listed scrap value for XP purposes, but I'm considering dropping that and going the DCC route of leveling after surviving adventures.

It's also good for starting character creation and buying starting gear, but after that it's just kinda clunky.

>>51819650

Stop posting this garbage every thread.

>>51823460
Is there any other reason for having that 'wait a week' penalty before getting your new spells?

Is there a B/X treasure generator out there?

I run my games like a rogelike (proc-gen dungeons stuffed randomly) and I loathe looking up monster stats > treasure type > roll roll roll...

Is the night wolf inn in the trove? Been looking for a while but can't seem to find it.

Thanks!

What's the best and most complete book of monsters, when it comes to iconic / classic critters? OSRIC?
I prefer short descriptions with minimal fluff, if that matters.

So, I've been thinking of getting rid of Clerics in DCC and using their spells as Wizard White Magic. Safer to use than Black Magic, lack of corruption and all.
My only issue is what happens when you roll up a 1. Corruption effects obviously don't apply. What's a good alternative?

>>51823617
>I'm considering dropping that and going the DCC route of leveling after surviving adventures.
I'd strongly advise you to drop that and go a more Wolfpacks route of tailored XP sources based on what your game is about, rather than DCC's frankly quite blunt and unsatisfying system. (I'm not saying it's BAD, just that it could've been a lot better.)

>>51824454
Muh fluff.
>>51824953
Fits of zealotry/delusion.

>>51824953
There's already a perfectly fine god disapproval system. Just call it mindmelt and change the fluff or something.

Halp. I'm about to run a game that has lots, LOTS of grappling. What's a quick way to handle this in BX?
I'm thinking roll melee to grapple, allow paralysis save each round (that's similar to monsters like frogs attack, right?)

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>>51825012
So here's where I am at with scrap and bartering:

Armor, Weapons, Ammo and Basic Equipment in the handbook have an applied scrap value. This is mostly for character creation sake (retains the usual 3d6 x 10 starting "money") or for straight up transaction (you can sometimes find scrap in the Waste). Scrap is arbitrary and consists of nuts, bolts, electronic components, plastic bits, blah blah. It's also used in repairing items.

Treasure (artifacts, rare items, special weapons) found in the Waste have an assigned scrap value for XP sake.

All other random shit found (junk in the Wasteland) has no scrap value but can be used for bartering. Wanna trade bicycle frame for a pack of 10 arrows? That's legit. Roll the barter table and see if they're cool with it. Have straight up scrap you want to 'purchase it for? That's 10 scrap.

I don't know if this current setup is too arbitrary. It's basically DM fiat to decide what constitutes 'treasure' for XP and I am ok with that.

Does this seem too....meh? Any input?

>>51824542
http://mrjoshbear.net/odd-referee.html
This is for OD&D, but it should work.

>>51825717
>What's a quick way to handle this in BX?
Two that I can think of offhand are:

• Subdual as with dragons (damage dealt is subdual; after each round, roll % dice and if the result is lower than the percentage of HP lost by the creature, it surrenders or in this case, is pinned).

• Grappling as in that one Chainmail combat example from a Strategic Review (I think it was a SR issue, anyway), where the orcs mob the hero to capture him. I forget the details, but it was pretty straightforward and used regular attack rolls. I bet somebody can post the screenshot.

>>51826365
That second thing sounds right up my alley. Someone, please?

>>51824172
If it was posted some other time recently, it was posted by somebody else. I was too busy with your mom. The last time I remember it being posted was during the whole overpowered stone rock kerfuffle, which was--what?--two months ago?

>I think OSR people today just like Basic because it's a simpler system than AD&D. It's basically thought of and played as AD&D-lite.

True?

>>51826855
Most likely.

>>51826855
>It's basically thought of and played as AD&D-lite.
But it isn't AD&D lite, there are differences between the games.

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>>51826855
I prefer it cause its the exact amount of crunch I want in a game.

The Black Hack is too simplistic.
AD&D is too crunchy.
DCC is crunchy without being TOO much.
B/X, LotFP, LL, S&W are just right.

>>51826855
AD&D isn't too complicated, sans the extraneous bits (...barely complicated with them, even).
Rather than simplicity, I would say it's the more open/available option due to organization.

>>51826855
It's easier to learn and play. It's a better foundation to build upon, if you want to add your own stuff (because there's less stuff you'll have to bulldoze). Aside from just being a more complex game, AD&D has a decent bit of unnecessary clutter, which is to say that it's not as well executed. And even when you get down to the additional class and spell options that are a large draw of AD&D, they tend to be lower in quality. The same spells in AD&D tend to be more complicated with little benefit gained. And the additional classes tend to be derivative and/or inferior.

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Anyone played Caves of Qud, the roguelike? It's like Gamma World/Mutant Crawl Classics in ton.

This is maddeningly difficult and I love it.

>>51826992
I heard it's great and I've been meaning to try it, but I'm busy with Darkest Dungeon and For Honor at the moment.

>>51826365
>>51826427
The grappling sample boils down to: roll your attack die as normal after declaring the grapple. If successful, roll your Hit Dice versus the target's. Anyone else wishing to join the grapple must roll attack rolls as well. Add up both sides' results and compare. Tie means it continues for another round, if the attackers win, the target has been pinned (and can freely be bound if such things were on hand). If the defense wins, the difference is how many rounds of being knocked flat and stunned the attackers get, split as evenly as possible between them. It's not like 3E where grappling goes back and forth, you basically either get the guy, or fuck up and get laid out.

And yes, I said Hit Dice. In the example, the level 4 Hero rolls 4d6 vs several 1HD orcs.

>>51826967
>AD&D isn't too complicated, sans the extraneous bits (...barely complicated with them, even).

The fact that we still only have interpretations of how combat in 1e is supposed to theoretically play out, with differing nonofficial consensuses and being no closer to figuring out how it was actually supposed to work FOURTY years later because the combat wordings are one of the biggest disasters in TTRPG design of all time says otherwise.

File: tumblr_n3940mCzm91t6oajwo1_500.jpg (82KB, 500x667px) Image search: [Google]

82KB, 500x667px

I've come to find out the singular divisive topics in the OSR:

1. AD&D
2. Skills
3. DCC
4. Thieves
5. Story

>>51827520
Pretty accurate. While you make the new thread, make the thread question "which of these matters most to you?"