/srg/ Shadowrun General - Let's Make A Deal

>>51850367
It's the Sixth World.
It's not really touched upon a lot in actual games, but especially 3e fluff implies that the combination of commercially available cybernetics, biosculpting, high-tech clothing, constant media exposure, stressful megacorp jobs, top-down consumer society and the increasing glamourization of shadowrunners means that the Sixth World is a bit more intentionally freaky than ours.
When you make a living on your reputation, as well as being expected to get a shitton of biotech/cyberware, living cut off from normal people, getting a lot of cash in hand and have too much individuality for your own good, you're much more likely to use that cyberware (or bioware, or just clothes and gear) to stand out.
That's not to speak of the average citizen, who lives most of their life inundated by corporate propaganda, advertising and exploitative media, in a hyper-competitive environment where the Matrix is ever-present (and things escalate when they hit the Matrix, just like the Internet). If a GM was to actually describe the people in attendance at an average nouveau-riche kid's party, including their cosmetic mods and clothes, his players would throw him out for magical realm if they hadn't been briefed on it.
The Sixth World is a blunted, hyper-connected society where you're always being told that someone else is prettier, cooler and more successful than you, through the hyper-immersive media of simflicks and Matrix rooms, and that they've gotten that way from buying corporate products and you should too.
People care too much about more (perhaps unattainable) status and satisfaction to give a shit about many taboos anymore, and the corps are happy to provide. Someone buys all those biomods.

>>51850577
I go to the stuffer shack and pay for it with my fake SIN along with my microwavable burritos and soy bacon.

Anybody have the Missions S5E6 pdf? Its not in the pastebin download.

>>51850706
Sorry, I've never seen a PDF for Take a Chance freerange.

A couple questions about helmets.
What exactly is the difference between a helmet and a full helmet? Is the regular helmet opened? Could you wear a ballistic mask with it? Can the full helmet even be used separately from the full body armor?
And then regarding smartlink, if I have cybereyes with smartlink and imagelink, would I also need a smartlink in the helmet? Or can I just use an imagelink to transfer the data's image from my eyes to the helmet's visor?

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>>51850577
>Getting the Gear Edition.
>How do you like to do it? Face to face meetings in rainy alleys? Ordering from the darknet and getting it delivered inside a ordinary package? Do you have a deal set up with a local gang, do you know a UCAS supply sergeant, do you just throw a credstick to Sketchy Eddy taped to a picture of a t-bird and let him figure out the rest?
I call one of my 3 contacts whose business includes selling stuff to shadowrunners (contacts form 2 different syndicates and my fixer) and see if they have it in stock.

>>51850665
>paying for gear with a SIN, fake or otherwise
>paying for anything with a SIN, fake or otherwise
Don't do this. Any healthily paranoid runner will only buy shit through means that doesn't leave a digital paper trail.

>>51850835
If your smartlink and your imagelink are in your eyes, that's all you need to have a tactical HUD, your helmet's visor has nothing to do with it.

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>>51850853
>not establishing a cover identity for your fake SIN through regular purchases of mundane goods

0/10 trenchcoats

Not having a paper trail is far more suspicious.

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>>51850835
>Could you wear a ballistic mask with [a helmet]?

I've never seen that allowed at any table, because it's maximum cheese and violates the rules about stacking armour.

>>51850887
It's mentioned that most forgers will, for X amount of nuyen a month, keep any fake sins you have updated with that,.

>>51850835
>What exactly is the difference between a helmet and a full helmet? Is the regular helmet opened?

One is a bucket and the other is encompassing

>Could you wear a ballistic mask with it?

There isn't any rule saying you can't, however its logistically stupid and frowned upon as cheesy (in /srg/ no less).

>Can the full helmet even be used separately from the full body armor?

Of course, though it'd probably look silly.

>And then regarding smartlink, if I have cybereyes with smartlink and imagelink, would I also need a smartlink in the helmet?

You can, but you don't need to. The bonus from the smartlink in your cybereyes would be higher than the bonus from the smartlink in any other optical device. Plus they don't even stack.

>Or can I just use an imagelink to transfer the data's image from my eyes to the helmet's visor?

Any GM would probably rule that data collected from one piece of your equipment could be transferred to any other piece. Whether it does anything or not would be up to the context and your GM.

>>51850853
Unless the gear is Forbidden I see nothing wrong with buying it from a legit source with an adequate SIN. Nobody is going to look twice at anybody buying guns and ammo unless they are straight-up illegal like in the JIS. And chances are I'm gonna run the thing through a bunch of tag erasers and file off the serial numbers before I take it out into the wild for work.

>>51850887
>0/10 trenchcoats
Well yeah, I am an unabashed Pink Mohawkfag. Though, isn't it that case that if anyone finds my paper trail (or more accurately, lack thereof, because it's all deposits and withdrawls with no purchases) that SIN is already burned?

>>51850963
>Unless the gear is Forbidden I see nothing wrong with buying it from a legit source with an adequate SIN.
If/when the SIN gets burned, you want to minimize the information that is revealed about you; purchasing things without your SIN not only hides what you've bought, but when you bought it and where and you bought it from. Ironically this makes having a real SIN convenient in some ways; you buy groceries on it and pay your bar tab with it without worrying that your day-to-day habits will be revealed on a stroke of bad luck.

>>51850577
Run idea:

While waiting at the game store where they were supposed to meet Mr. Johnson they get roped into playing Shadowrunners 12e to avoid suspicion.

Great idea or horrible idea?

>>51851303
Too meta. Better idea: the team has been unknowingly duped into playing the role of the antagonists in a LARP.

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>>51851303

Hey, no recursing.

Also,
>Gunbunny

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>>51851095
>Though, isn't it that case that if anyone finds my paper trail (or more accurately, lack thereof, because it's all deposits and withdrawls with no purchases) that SIN is already burned?

It would be, because you're an idiot who can't maintain a fake identity. If someone does look at your SIN, and discover a purchase for some soyburgers and 3 seashells at the Stuffer Shack, they think you're an average citizen. The whole point of a fake SIN is that it gives the world the impression that you're a regular person.

>>51850913
>paying someone to do basic work for you

>>51851337
>gunbunny
You what's funny? I hadn't heard "gunbunny" as a Shadowrun archetype/build until the last thread, and before that I hadn't heard of it at all as a Shadowrun archetype/build except for 1 mention in the official forums. I guess some old archetypes have swept under the rug as the editions went on.

>>51851370
When do people "look" at your SIN though? I was under the impression that SIN checkers didn't bother looking at your recent purchases, and if they do shouldn't there be a mechanic for that where your fake SIN's rating decreases if you don't buy normal shit all the time?

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>>51851435
The automated scanners might not go through your purchase history, but a Lone Star detective following up on the Tacoma Docks Incident would. By canon that info is out there and constantly being sniffed by every commercial outlet as you walk by for targeted marketing.

And SR barely has rules for checking that SINs even exist, adding a subsystem for the production and maintenance of supporting documents is too much.

>>51851435
4e and 5e focused a lot more on adepts and magic as a way to "liven up" the cyberpunk genre and draw in customers used to 3.PF and MMOs, and a lot of the archetypes and fluff related to cyberware have been swept under the table because it might scare the new players off.
I personally feel it's a huge loss, as CGL seems extremely caught up on making all characters into powerful, magic-using special snowflakes with huge amounts of destructive potential, and they spare no effort in doing it (decks were turned into commlinks in 4e, technomancers tried but failed to give I-can't-believe-it's-not-magic flavor to hacking and cyberware was made more expensive and riddled with soul-eating nanobots).
By separating characters from the (technologically dominated) world around them and encouraging from-birth specialness like magic, metasapients and strange metavariants, the characters lose opportunities to distinguish themselves as characters and instead have to stand out by virtue of being different from the setting (usually in spiritual beliefs, diet, gender identity or such things that appeal to the Wil Wheaton-raised generation).
The setting is being antagonized and shot in the foot by CGL encouraging only characters and builds that are hard to properly mesh with the setting, instead relying on a feeling of alienation, victimization and being special and misunderstood to make characters who're better fit for a Tumblr-flavored pink mohawk romp without the mood or themes of cyberpunk.

So, as a GM, I am shocked and amazed that my attempts to get my team to not get into trouble have failed so spectacularly.

Three fifths of my team are pregnant and four of five are male.

>>51851801
Have you tried telling them that you really, really don't have time for this horseshit right now?

>>51850577
>How to get gear edition
Call a contact or a buddy's contact. It really depends on the contact. My Fixer is the crazy paranoid type, so he calls me in a few days informing me there's a dead drop 3/4 of the way across the city in an alley. My fence usually has something on hand, but wants to trade in kind rather than in Nuyen. Buddy's techno friend makes a BTL file that has him wind up in front of a dead drop when it's done.

>>51851830
Its hilarious because I totally have time for it.

>>51851541
So my strategy should be to be so horrifically violent that no one has the guts to do a follow-up investigation?

Okay, but seriously, how often and in what scenarios do SINs get checked instead of just passively observed by nearby authorities? Because I can think of 4 scenarios, and I'm not sure they'll ever come up in my current group:
>purchasing stuff (not going to happen because I only pay with credsticks)
>border crossings/airports/trainstations etc (not going to happen under our GM, as Mr.Johnson always provides a complimentary private flight or get-past-border-security card when we have to take a working vacation)
>pulled over/caught by cops (current supply of horsepower and firepower makes this unlikely)
>socially infiltrating a fancy place (not something our group is terribly inclined to do)

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>>51851801
>Three fifths of my team are pregnant and four of five are male.
There had better be one hell of a story behind this, or I'm calling bullshit.

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>>51851599
Well the fact that shadowrun has magic at all sort of separates it from proper cyberpunk. The fact that magic can't interact with the technology of the world sets up problems from the get-go. Sure, CGL is a big pile of shit but the problem you're describing is built right into the game. It has two really strong elements that, by the rules they've set, can't work together.

>alienation, victimization and being special and misunderstood
That was a thing since 2e. Shadowrunners are despised terrorists, the world is full of dehumanising tech, media and alien influences. It's very clear that metahumanity is constantly being ground into the dirt by the powers that be and the only way up is to heavily alter yourself. If anything 4&5e are much more friendlier and accepting settings than previous editions.
>pink mohawk romp without the mood or themes of cyberpunk
Dude, pic related is how 3e introduces itself. The art in old editions is full of punks in fetish covered jean jackets and cargo pants doing commando shit. It has over the top gunfights and explosions. It's a crazy setting where crazy things happen, that's how it's always been.

>>51850963
>Unless the gear is Forbidden I see nothing wrong with buying it from a legit source with an adequate SIN.
Unless it's availability --, you have to order it, and the default rules assume black market sources like a vendor at the local crime mall.

Do the attack and stealth dongle from Data Trails actually serve a purpose ? A 6/6/6 Transys Avalon sounds like a very decent hacking tool for the price, but I know nothing so.

I need an all purpose vehicle for my team, Chummers. Something that can function as a mobile home/base for them.
Likely to be a van, so which ones do you recommend?

>>51851955
>If anything 4&5e are much more friendlier and accepting settings than previous editions.
That's the thing though, now you have to go further to be an outcast.

>>51852013
Put it on a toaster and shred hosts

>>51852045
Are Roadmaster, always Ares Roadmaster.

>>51852078
Isn't that practically an armored tank though?
Sure, it's legal, but likely to draw suspicion. Also it's fairly slow.

>>51852123
>Sure, it's legal, but likely to draw suspicion.
Paint it up as a delivery vehicle for valuable goods, no one will blink twice at it.
>Also it's fairly slow.
It can be upgraded to Speed 5 and Acceleration 2 if you've got the cash.

>>51852062
Yeah but from the most of the books I'v read and games I'v played in the results less in tumblr-ism and more black-hat style play. It definitely is a problem in the setting but a different kind of problem than what >>51851599 is describing.

Early editions assumed PCs where fairly morally decent people in a shitty world doing what they need to do. Current editions assume a functional world which leads to PCs being people who actively chose crime.

I never thought about this until now
Any relationship between runners beyond friends is pretty much a death sentence, huh?

>>51852318
Nod rili, why would it have to be?

>>51852219
Eh, I kind of like it better that way. I'm not into going full black hat or anything, but after all that D&D and other stuff, it's refreshing to have a setting where the default assumption is "you kill people, take things that don't belong to you and otherwise do morally dubious shit and you have no delusions about it".

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>>51852219

Right, but the default PC assumption is SIN-less, which means they're specifically excluded from functional society.

Some may have burned their SIN and left society behind by choice, but there's plenty of people for whom Shadowrunning is their best shot at getting out of the Barrens.

>>51851911
One dude is fucking the chick of the party and one dude is fucking an NPC. In the interests of fairness, the men also get the pregnant quality with mental modifiers instead of physical, because they are human.

I would let them ignore that but none of them are sociopaths, and if they were, I would force them to take relevant qualities to reflect it.

>>51852393
>In the interests of fairness, the men also get the pregnant quality with mental modifiers instead of physical, because they are human.
Oh, I thought you were saying there was some mpreg shit going on. Mental modifiers due to the anxiety of being a future dad.....well, that's an interesting and perhaps fair way to handle it.

>>51852439
Whats more, I have some rules for pregnancy that are simple and stupid and you would have to be arrogant or unlucky to fail them.

And/or fuck a shitload of times a month to fail it.

Long story short they were all three, but the NPC was the most arrogant.

>>51852514
>the NPC was the most arrogant.
I really want to hear the details of this now.

>>51851095
Nah. Just because you've got a paper trail doesn't mean that you had a (proper) banking account.

And even if you did, the only thing at risk is whatever's in that proper banking account... unless it's a proper underworld ran banking account.

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For all the time and space dedicated to military arms, ammo, armor, and other gear are there any actual wars being fought; at least ones that aren't low-key shadow wars in the middle of bumfuck nowhere? And speaking of armed conflicts, since corps are considered their own territories and have their own armies, are skirmishes between corps a thing? Do corps ever back national armies openly (barring the nations who pretty much ARE corps like Aztlan and the PCC)?

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>>51852675

Aztlan and Amazonia recently fought a war over Bogota, but that's wrapped up now. It's covered in the War! sourcebook for 4e.

>>51852675
>are there any actual wars being fought
not anymore, though I think there was some conflict in east europe
>are skirmishes between corps a thing
chummer, why do you think Shadowrunners are a thing? It's exactly so there ISN'T any open armed conflict between them. Instead there is a constant cold shadow war where each corp sends Runners against specific targets. If they succeed? You got that thing, and the other one will most likely get runners as revenge. If they fail? Well, you've never ever seen them before. Can you show anything that would prove that? No? well frag off then

>>51850903
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/7f/89/96/7f8996ccef061cdf68c9b7c494b63561.jpg

cheese you say?. That's what I do with my guy when fights are going to go down or sneaking.

>>51852660
It's amazing how many people on here don't know about underworld bank accounts.
It's like nobody read Unwired at all.

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>>51852675
Fucking christ, what happened to him?

>>51852812
The helmet of the most protective armor in the game provides only +3 armor. If you think that wearing 2 pieces of headwear together is going to get you +4 armor somehow, then you can go staple your dick to a tree.

>>51852675
>For all the time and space dedicated to military arms, ammo, armor, and other gear are there any actual wars being fought; at least ones that aren't low-key shadow wars in the middle of bumfuck nowhere?
Yes. It happens less rarely though between developed countries because in a full-scale war it you need to maximize use of your economy to fund it, and the economy is no longer under control of nation-states in the Sixth World.
Areas like mainland China, Southeast Asia, and the Phillipenes are full of low-intensity conflicts though. There's enough violence out there that some pretty big mercenary companies make a lot of money doing their thing.
>>>51852675
>And speaking of armed conflicts, since corps are considered their own territories and have their own armies, are skirmishes between corps a thing?
Yes, but their armies aren't nearly as big as nation-state armies, which the exception of Ares Macrotech and Aztechnology I imagine. They generally go for deniable asset attacks though; shadowruns, namely.
>Do corps ever back national armies openly (barring the nations who pretty much ARE corps like Aztlan and the PCC)?
Ares is so American that it's founder almost certainly predates the creation of the UCAS and CAS as nation-states in age and likely served in the origina USAF.

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>>51852879
YOU CAN GET +8 USING GEL PACKS! THAT'S DOUBLE! YES DOUBLE THE ARMOR FOR HALF THE PRICE! CALL NOW! CHUMMER5 DOESN'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE AND CASH IS ACCEPTED!

>>51852954
>gel packs
But the moment you take any damage your ass is on the ground. Also don't you need to buy new gel packs every time you get shot?

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>>51852675
>ones that aren't low-key shadow wars in the middle of bumfuck nowhere?

The thing is that you can't have wars that aren't low-key shadow wars in the modern age; if it goes all out, people bomb each other back into the stone age. What we get are low-key shadow wars that erupt into quick and decisive battles.

Aztlan bans all non-Aztech megacorps? Things go quietly for a couple years, then Operation RECIPROCITY.

The dragons get into a tiff? Sniping and shadow-work, then people mount up and storm Mt. Shasta and slaughter everyone there, bringing Hestaby to heel.

The South American rebels pushing against the Azzies? Guerrilla war for a decade, the Sirrurg blows up half the Yucatan and the Azzies respond with a massive army to take out that Great Dragon.

If you want to see what places are leaking gas mains waiting for a spark, WAR! has several in the back of the book; the Balkans (because of course the fucking Balkans), sub-Saharan Africa and the Chinese states are a few I remember.

Also this
>>51852775
>why do you think Shadowrunners are a thing? It's exactly so there ISN'T any open armed conflict between them

The whole point of the Corporate Court is that it was founded when BMW waged open war with Keruba, and it turns out that's bad for business. So wars between corps are regulated by peer pressure; step out of line, and the rest of the megas will turn on you and cut you to ribbons. So Aztechnology can wage war against Amazonia, and Horizon can broadcast fluff pieces about the brave Amazonians fighting against oppression and ship a few hundred thousand rifles to a middleman who may or may not have connections in Amazonia, but Horizon and Aztechnology won't go to war.

>>51852981
>Also don't you need to buy new gel packs every time you get shot?
Only when they're punctured, aka you take physical damage.

>>51852846
Hell, they're kinda mentioned in the 5e core. Just like for a line or two, but they're mentioned.

I'd still go with a fully legal bank account for any SIN I'd use as a long term/secure hider.

>>51851435
The 'important' SIN checks are the validity ones. Background data is part of it, but honestly the only cause of lack of recent purchases should be that's the first explanation for what happens on a tie.

>>51851878
The most common check (and one I ignore because it's not going realistically to matter unless you're using a rating 1) is when entering corp held places. Fortunately, most places spring for cheap-ass scans at the entrance, so as long as you're not actively trying to hide from a crime you committed, I just let it pass.

And even non-corp places do it, I just, again, ignore the low chance of it finding anything for most cases. It just becomes putative dice rolling when you're not trying to use the SIN to hide.

>>51852013
They have a few uses for the infiltrator that doesn't want to risk being seen with a commlink, but for actual decking purposes, you'd need to have the skills and passes to do good AR decking, or having to switch modes around a lot. (Or have a drone that can do it for you.)

>>51852981
You don't, but it's probably going to be a bonus to people looking for you until you replace the busted ones.

>>51852981
ONLY IF THE DAMAGE GETS THROUGH! PLUS YOU CAN COUNTER THAT BY HAVING A HIGH BOD! SO PUMP UR LIMP BODY WITH ROIDS AND WARE AND GO OUT THERE AND TACKLE A COP CAR!

>>51852987
>If you want to see what places are leaking gas mains waiting for a spark, WAR! has several in the back of the book; the Balkans (because of course the fucking Balkans), sub-Saharan Africa and the Chinese states are a few I remember.
Truth be told, the Balkans and Africa are a given.

>>51853028
>>51853022
>>51853021
So only worth it for really heavy armor? What a coincidence, I'm in the market for heavy armor. Pity they have to be installed externally, because they're really fucking ugly.

>>51853161
THROW ON SOME DERMAL PLATING AND LET IT ALLLLL STACK!

Seeing how often bad fluff comes up in this thread, I figured I should at least offer to barf up a setting document I have for my own cyberpunk novel.
It ended up growing huge before I even wrote on the novel, but now I have enough pages written on the novel itself that I don't have to keep the document close to my chest because of Deviantart syndrome.
Of course, this is assuming you want 218 pages of setting notes, megacorps, products, cities, technology, geopolitical speculation, fluff and God knows what, interspersed with some old attempts to make it into a roleplaying system.

>>51853212
It goes without saying that it's up for use, reuse and abuse in your own games - I'm not going to use more than half of that in any even remotely readable novel, so it would be a waste to sperg out if people use it for their own games and even cut it up a bit.

Just wondering, if you had to create a cursed, sentient weapon, what would you give it aside from or in addition to "weapon personality"?

>>51853300
>inb4 "Auschwitz killing shiv"

I never understood the dragon-fucking fetish, but fucking hell Dragonfall makes it hard to not wish to have loving and fulfilling sex in the missionary position with Feuerschwinge.

>>51853375
>made from iron walking stick Fuhrer himself threw away when it broke while he was visiting the establishment

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>>51853391
>I never understood the dragon-fucking fetish
it goes both ways

>>51853426
>>51853375
This shit's good, but really any executioner's weapon would fit the bill.

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>>51853375
CGL beat you to it. Fucking WAR!

>>51853548
Blokhin's execution pistol?

So is Detroit still a shithole in the Sixth World (at least, any more so than the rest of the world)?

>>51853704
I suppose, if guns are viable to become cursed, sentient weapons.

>>51853707
IIRC no, it's the HQ of ARES

>>51853707
It's the headquarters of Ares, so no. There's large wageslave areas and the slums are relatively small. Apparently they switched around a couple of irl neighbourhoods in terms of which are nice and which are shit, but only a local would know.

>>51853634
>market value: 10,000 nuyen
Bullshit, it's got to have 5 times that price for the historical value alone!

When is a Magician better than a Mystic Adept?
While building what I originally thought was going to be a Magician, I find myself gravitating more towards spells like Decrease/Increase Attribute and Increase Reflexes. However, I still want to be able to do very well with spirit summoning, as well as illusion/utility spells.
Am I better off staying full Magician, or should I make the switch?

>>51853932
Magician is better early-mid game, mystic adept gets ahead later in the game. The thing is, characters/games don't usually last that long.

If you have Karmagen and Sum-to-ten as available character options, how much extra karma does karmagen need to match up against sum-to-ten?

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It lives. Somehow.

>>51854112
>Sprite builder never ever

>>51853994
Just use Sum-to-ten it's objectively better

>>51847623
>scrooge mcduck inspired incestion
I do believe it was Paprika, you faggot.

>>51854134
Considering that my next character will be a Petnomancer, it's next in line. I kind of regret not having started with it since its scope is smaller.

>>51854134
Some people like having complete freedom in how their resources are allocated, anon.

>>51854155
>incestion
is that the porn parody of it?

And no, there is a scrooge mcduck comic where he's sleeping and the beagle boys invade his dreams using a special machine to either get him to reveal his deepest secret or get him to transfer all of his money, I can't remember

>>51854279
AAND found it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dream_of_a_Lifetime
>The Dream of a Lifetime is a 2002 Donald Duck comic by Don Rosa. It appeared in the May 2004 issue of the Scrooge McDuck comic book (Uncle Scrooge #329).[1] It is famous for sharing many similarities with the blockbuster Christopher Nolan film Inception, which was released eight years later in 2010.[2]

>>51853989
The latter is very true. Maybe a little too true. How much later is later game? We're starting at 1000 karma.

What are some nice cyberware and bioware things to have outside of initiative boosters, body/armour boosters and agi/str boosters as a street sam?

>>51850577
Why the fuck would that redskin be inside the van behind the box like that

>>51854469
Vision and hearing enhancements. You can't kill what you can't see. If you're into going full auto, you'll want a cyberarm gyromount.

>>51853300
Have some way for it to simsense what the victims feel straight back to you. Everytime it kills it feels like you're dying. Get addicted to the btl sensation and driven to murder suicide.

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>>51854134
In theory a sprite builder should be able to use the same architecture, since in practical terms they're just spirits that have different skills and powers. That's how Chummer handles them anyway.
>>51853994
Difficult to say, in terms of pure karma efficiency sum-to-ten can work out to between 800 and 1000 karma, but those calculations were before it was RAW that you got contacts and knowledge skills for free with point buy.
>>51854363
>Starting at 1000 karma
Wut

>>51854598
I know, it's a lot. But with that said, would a Mystic Adapt build be more advantageous?

>>51854492
Probably going to go longarms with a heavy pistol. Hoping an EBR will be a good enough substitute for an automatic, when its needed

>>51854682
There are 2 fully automatic shotguns in Run&Gun, just so you know. One of them's even chargen legal. Don't forget to deck them out with Gas Vent 3 and Shockpads either way.

>>51854678
I'm not sure, you could build the character both ways and see which is better.

>>51854745

Do you have any recommendations for attribute spending at least? How much is too much Karma to pump into stats and such like that?

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>>51854678
Depends on whether you're allowed to initiate during chargen with that extra karma and how many other rules you're allowed to break.

>>51854890
I have a character sheet that I have not edited in over a week, I have not updated Chummer since before I made it, and I haven't changed my settings at all.

The sheet opened just fine yesterday.

Today, it tells me that Uknown Book! (124) is not enabled and that it may cause problems.

How in the fuck

>>51852675
There's both Euro-Wars, but that was earlier in the timeline.

>>51855025
I'd need to see the file, but that code's slightly quirky, it probably just parsed a field incorrectly.

>>51855098
How can I upload it

>>51855025
I want to say that was one of the unknown books it gave me when I was having issues several versions ago with skills not properly populating.

At the very least, it's pretty harmless from what I've seen. I think it goes away with a little bit of skill re-checking and a save.

>>51855120
file.io? nya.is? pomf.cat? Mediafire? Pastebin?

>>51855219
https://file.io/RhLOCc
Version 190.93

>>51853788
The price is down because jewghosts will chase you down and haunt your ass for having it. Like having a real fur coat today.

>>51855329
I'm pretty sure only the living will bug you for having a fur coat nowadays.

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>>51854474
Don't trust the knifeears, anon. Keep your bulletproof gun case between you and keebs.

>>51855313
<spell>
<guid>3de362ec-8754-4d56-b94f-396f7a593fb3</guid>
<name>Attune Item</name>
<descriptors>Adept</descriptors>
<category>Rituals</category>
<type>M</type>
<range>Special</range>
<damage>0</damage>
<duration>Special</duration>
<dv>Special</dv>
<limited>False</limited>
<extended>False</extended>
<alchemical>False</alchemical>
<source>124</source>
<page />
<extra>Revolver</extra>
<notes />
<improvementsource>Initiation</improvementsource>
<grade>1</grade>
</spell>

Well, that'd do it.

>>51855360
You mean animal spirits don't lurk in your closet, moaning about how much tanning hurts?

I knew I shouldn't have taken those Lifestyle mods.

>>51855410
...?

>>51855413
Consider an exorcism.

>>51854890
Yes, we are allowed to initiate during chargen. I don't know if there are any other rules to discuss though.

>>51855429
Source got set to the page reference. Looks like a fuckup from when one of the other devs made some structural changes.

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What is the most disproportionate act of petty that you have witnessed, committed or had inflicted upon you?

When people say you need con and etiquette, do they mean a point so you aren't defaulting? Or 8+?

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>>51855448
What, you think I'm made of incense? The local chapter of St. Sylvester is booked through the next 5 years. I think God's teaching me about patience.

>>51855579
>When people say you need con and etiquette, do they mean a point so you aren't defaulting?
Yes.

>>51855579
Aim to have at least 3, better to have 6, so you can lie better than a toddler.

>>51855617
As in total pool, not skill points

>>51855617
I don't even think a toddler would have 2 dice.

>>51855592
Have you considered just hiring an exorcist of a different faith and having your local pastor rechristianize your place after the fact?

>>51855640
>he's never run with the 1 CHA street sam

>>51855675
I'm not a big fan of apostasy in a day and age when an angel of death might literally turn up next Tuesday if the church group prays real hard.

>>51855728
Well if you don't want to chance it, make sure the guy's at least a Hermetic Protestant, that should be safe enough.

Would street level be a good starting point for a "rags to riches" type of campaign?

>>51855728
You could pray really hard to a different religion and have a different angel show up. Or just believe real hard that you're actually in the right and summon an even bigger angel.

>>51855826
nope, use street scum
unless of course you want a group full of awakened/emerged

>>51855826
Rags to ditches is a lot more likely.

>>51855826
Pro tip - you're never going to get that story because SR is terrible for improving a character during a campaign. Unless you give out preposterous amounts of karma and nuyen, and do huge timeskips for training/surgery, it's not going to happen.

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>>51855561
Our runner-group once did a bunch of runs for a Troll business tycoon, a real self-made man kind of guy, who took things incredibly personally when the showroom-salesman of a small luxury-car company treated him condescendingly for wanting to buy a luxury-car adapted for Troll ergonomics.

Over the course of a year, we were hired multiple times by him and his personal staff to subtly fuck up the upper-management of the company as much as possible so he can swoop in and usurp control of the company without any unneeded difficulty.

Twenty-two dead bodies, nearly a hundred jobs lost and a CFO in prison for charges of possession of child-pornography, all so one Troll industrialist could confront a salesman who made snarky comments to him a year back and fire him on the spot.

We got an armored luxury-car and lifetime VIP-entry to an upscale businessman's bar for our troubles, mind you.

>>51856072
wow

I'll copy that

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Has anyone played a character who lived in the shadows for purely political reasons? A true punk who was just there to smash the system?

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>>51856707

Played an Orc yucatan freedom fighter\terrorist back in 3rd edition, who was basically "kill all, loot all, burn all" when it came to azzies, and megas.

>>51856707
I played a fomor who was a former member of a pagan freedom fighter group. He wasn't running for political reasons so much as his politics forced him to have live underground. Still, we got to fuck up some Tir interests along the way so he was still happy.

>>51855579
If you're going to attempt a roll, you better have at least 6+ dice, or you're just asking to eat a critical glitch. That said no amount of dice will allow you to bluff your way out of being in a secure area without the proper clearance in full body armour carrying an Ares Alpha so don't sweat it too much, it's the the infiltrator's job to talk their way past shit if needed, if you're playing a Street Sam, you're there for when the talking stops and the firing starts.

>>51853994
Karmagen is fine as it is. I've found that, more often than not, it actually makes better characters than sum-to-ten!

>>51855579
Pool of 4 in total is enough, so you can buy your single success needed to not fuck up the occasional dialog.

>>51853994
KarmaGen and Priority/ST10 differ in what type of character they prefer

KarmaGen prefers generalists, due to the costs scaling exponentially, which means you have a lot of skills, but none of them exceptionally well.
Priority/ST10 prefers specialists, due to the costs staying constant, but giving a limited amount of points. This means characters that excel in their role, but are fairly shite outside of it

Since usual play follows KarmaGen closely it means that in normal play you won't get that much better in what you do, but smooth out the stuff you can't.

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How is this for a street sam? Anything glaring missing?
The gear isn't fully done and I'm missing things like contacts and knowlege, this was just a start before I go to sleep

>>51858090
Why do you only have 4 points in your highest offensive skill?

>>51858168
Longarms was supposed to be 6. Must have used my scroll wheel on it or something

>>51858090
The mood hair is a bit hard to justify, and BOD3/WILL3 is probably a better choice than 4/2

>>51858090
you want uneven numbers on both Willpower and Body.
Switch one Point from BOD to WIL for the additional Stun Box.
You have plenty of space for Karma from negative qualities.
IF you can grab some additonal Money, switch the plastic Bonelacing to alphaware and try to go for a used Muscletoner lvl 3 instead.
I am absolutely no fan of Orthoskin over higher Levels of Bonelacing.
2 Levels of Orthoskin give you 2 Points of soak, switching to Aluminium Bonelacing would do the same while being 2000 Nuyen cheaper and you can always grab some alphaware Orthoskin later.
For weapons with high internal AP like the crocket, Gel Ammo is mechanically better than Stick-n-Shock.
Why did you spend Points on "flight"?

Also grab a few normal rounds for your rifles.
They are cheap and not everything that needs killing warrants the pricetag of APDS.

>>51858438
Addendum:
Why the fuck did you put a gasvent on your Warhawk?
Its a SS Weapon, thus doesn't accumulate any recoil.

>>51858438
>Why did you spend Points on "flight"?
seems like he took the skill group

>>51858493
Ah, yeah that could be possible.

Another thing:
The Cyberarm is really shit, mechanical wise.
You don't need the gyromount for a Crocket and it gimps your Agi and STR while costing a lot of Money.
Either go fully pimped full arm or only a hand.
Since you have bonelacing and both Toner and Augmentation, ditching the Cyberarm entirely would be the best choice though, except if you really want it for fluff reasons (in that case, 6 STR and AGI is a must, Upgrades can be bought during gameplay).

>>51858090
Laser and smartlink on the same gun is redundant

>>51850577
Hey guys, I played the shadowrun game on steam and fell in love, I wanna DM a campaign with the usual crew when we're done with our current pathfinder one. What is a good edition to start with?

>>51859818
5th edition has the most support currently and the biggest userbase, and it's got a splat out for each major party archtype, just go with that.

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>>51859818
I'd personally say go for 5th edition, and check out the Superbook pdf in the OP: One of the main issues with the main rulebook is that all the important rules are scattered and hidden inbetween blocks of fluff, and the Superbook presents you with all the important basics with the fluff cut out for easy reference (of course you'll still want to read the main rulebook as is).

Just a heads-up as well, Shadowrun is an extremely bookkeeping-intensive game: Prep as much as humanly possible before the first session and make sure your players have their character ready in advance.

Got some questions on drones, chummers.

-The Device Rating of them is equal to the Pilot Rating, right? (Although chummer lists their Device stat anyway so I suppose that's irrelevant for the most part.) A drone can only have as many autosofts as half their device rating rounded up, but is that ACTIVE autosofts only, so I can have, say, 2 autosofts on a 2 device rating drone, I just have to switch between which one I want to use?
-Say you're jumped into a small drone and watching the action from afar. What mods do I need so I can communicate with my team still? I can't really find a 'microphone' option.

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>>51859952
-Far as I'm concerned, you can have more autosofts and switch between them at will.
-Your main method of communication when jumped in is sending messages through the matrix, which is a free action.

>>51859818
3rd edition is for oldfags who enjoyed the more classic 80's cyberpunk
4th edition is the more modern edition with things like smartphones as powerful as computers
and 5th edition is the mix of both

The games are more inspired on 3rd edition, since the timeframe of 5th edition is in the 2075+, and try to find what the players want to play, if they want to be operators operating, sticking it to the man, or roleplay Ocean's 11 but with mages, hackers and people blenders

>>51860026
>more inspired on 3rd edition
sure? because AFAIK it's supposed to be more 1e/2e

>>51860015
Awesome. Do I need a clearsight autosoft when jumped in or is it as I assume that clearsight is just a program that lets the drone look about and perceive things intentionally (you can still it while jumped in because you're not a dumb drone with a dog brain).

>>51860074
3ed was to 2nd ed as 5th is to 4th, basically iterative tweaks to the game. Can't speak to 1st as I never played, but I'm given to understand it was pretty different and a lot of now accepted parts of the setting hadn't been established yet.

>>51860088
You only need a clearsight running if you want the drone to look around while you're not jumped in and not controlling it.

It's possible to go do the spotting and active sensor attacks for the drone, and let it run the gun stuff.

Group's been together for a bit. Replaced one of the first adventures we'd ever done, with the cocky confidence of people who knew it back to front - Bottled Demon.

Long story short, TPK halfway through because the Shaman decided that using the Idol was a good idea, since he knew Arleesh would be along eventually anyway. There's no good way to have a magic-and-physical shootout in a dunkin' donuts, and apparently wounds packed with donuts are a huge problem for doctors.

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For you personally:
What parts of Shadowrun are absolutely core and vital the experience?
What parts really need to added, altered or removed?
and why?

>>51860138
I'll probably just slot a Clearsight into my RCC for simplicity's sake.
In fact, what autosofts are must haves to slot into an RCC? Like drones, I assume they can only have as many as the device rating, rounded up, so right now I can only take 3, but I think I can have those as high a rating as I want because I know drones slaved to an RCC can use its autosoft rating themselves.

>>51860284
RCCs, near as I can tell and remember, have DR in slots, but only if you're not putting any towards Noise Reduction. (And you usually shouldn't. You have better ways, and hopefully won't need the extra dice for the Matrix Actions that get bonuses from the RCC's noise reduction.)

And yes, any rating.

I recommend a clearsight (use it for Sensor Attacks too), maneuvering 'soft , smartsoft (but only if you have room for it and the next), and the appropriate gun shooting 'soft. Swarm if you have a lot of really cheap drones all using similar stuff.

>>51860210
fluff, crunch or both?

>>51860210
>What parts of Shadowrun are absolutely core and vital the experience?
Magic. Machine. Inequality.
>What parts really need to added, altered or removed? and why?
CFD. It's been done better, elsewhere. Get rid of it. Fuck knows why they chose that particular hill to die on and try to work it into everything. The mystery and danger of the world is stripped. God knows how to return it.

Shit, even bring back the old metaplot - not the in your face variety with 30 varieties of immortals running around that the truncative attempt at the Artifacts series turned out to be, but the one with little digs and niggles in the books, and maybe one or two adventures per edition - the thing that left some mystery to it for grognards to argue over. The digs and niggles gave little adventure ideas for people who didn't know shit about ED or the metaplot, as well as very different ideas for those that did.

>>51860384
both, either

>>51860368
Alright, thanks for the advice. One last question: best control method for multiple drones? Remote Control seems to be good for swarms since that's you giving every drone the same task. But what about for anything more tactical? Do you just have to keep jumping into your separate drones, get them into position, and hope their autopilot does the deed for you while you're jumped into another?

Trying to enter the realm of drone rigging from vehicular rigging, it's significantly different but I think I'll enjoy the versatility and cool things it offers.

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>>51860389
I think what dissapoints me the most about CFD is that the writers just plain overdid it: If they kept it as a more minor thing to explain the decline in nanomachine-usage and maybe as an adventure module, it would've been great. Instead, CFD just sort of butted into everything else and latched onto other events/characters in a really hamfisted way.

On the subject of hamfisted insertions: If we're gonna have most/all the splatbooks come in the form of Jackpoint posts, I with each book had its own unique/new roster of Jackpointers to give the feeling that it's a group of expert talking about the niche-subject they specialise in, instead of the same dozen or so creator's-pet fuckers giving their two cents on absolutely everything that's posted. If the topic is about the Russian Mafia, I want the posts and discussions to come from Russians and Mafia-members, not fucking Slamm-0!

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>>51860210
I feel like shadowrun is one of the few games where you can play anything you can think, since the 'core' rules are well done and lets you make a 'character' rather than a class or archetype. Sure, everyone will define his character as an X, but it's not that simple. And since you have that massive freedom, the clash between tech and magic; civilian, corp and military; rich kids who lost everything and street urchins who wanna make a name for themselves... Honestly, it feels like a setting you can play for a long time without doing the same campaign twice. As someone who wasn't able to ever finish a DnD campaign due to my DM giving up/IRL schedule issues, they always feel the same. I never got that feeling with Shadowrun.

And honestly, what to remove/alter/add changes on what type of game you play. I found magic annoying since it's really easy to set up something that makes a TPK just because you wanted to give the Mage some spoitlight. I find Metasapients and half of the metavariants are either minmaxing, or just unplayable, like HMHVV. I dislike the general balance of the augs, but it's mostly related to my dislike of the 'initiative creep' that ends up costing half of the Adept/Sam build.
But, I wouldn't really remove anything, since there is always a part of the game where you can get them and have fun. I remember having a one-shot where we remade our characters from a VtM game in Shadowrun using HMHVV, and it was fucking gold.

>>51860693
>or just unplayable, like HMHVV

I hear this a lot on /srg/, could you explain what's so bad about Infected characters? Any specific one or just all of them?

>>51860809
Previous edition they were big, but manageable. Current edition, they've got a shitload of extra critter powers available to them and correspondingly larger drawbacks. Class III infected are doable, and one or two class I's - most of the rest are just going to get shot by Lonestar on the street if they aren't Magicians able to mask themselves.

You can PLAY them, but they're like SW20 Jedi - you need a party full of them, and because magic plays into a few of their powers, making them mages ensures they're even more potent, throwing the balance out of whack.

Building a Troll Street Sam with Priority in 5E. Is it better to go Attributes: A & Cash: C so I can get high stats out the gate with a bit of 'ware, or Attributes: D & Cash: A so I can get fully decked out in Cybergear even though my stats are crap?

Could detection spells see AR if they had a window into it? Like, if a blind character was using a low force clairvoyance spell behind a set of AR glasses, would that do the job?

>>51860618
I'd say look into the small group tactics stuff from Run and Gun and adapt that. Most pilots for drones will be able to handle that simple level if you can pull the tactics off right.

Now if you're just talking about firing, get the Swarm program. It greatly simplifies having a half-dozen drones (or more) slinging lead down one way. Also don't put 'em all in one swarm; leave a few in another to do Suppressive Fire and on occasion Enhanced Supressive Fire if people start to drop prone for the first one.

>>51861109
Invest in stats. Training them up takes a lot of time and karma after creation. Cybersurgery recovery time is fast and if you've already got the skills, money comes easily enough.

>>51861356
But isn't it fairly easy to increase stats with cyber?

>>51861405
Yes but doing only that is better for a role that isn't so physical but needs something to give them an edge.
Best example would be a Face with high intellectual stats, but low physical stats. But give them a cyberarm, pump it with strength and agility, and suddenly they can do a respectable amount of damage.

Cyberdecks are so fucking expensive. Are you expected to get a new deck eventually during the game or just stick with the one you got during chargen?

Also, what's the best deck you can get at chargen?

>>51861469

I remember that my DM would occasionally drop high quality deck throughout the campaign I was once in. Over the course of 2 years (play time) I got 5 deck upgrades. My DM was pretty good like that, giving missions where the rewards wasn't necessarily cash, but better cyberware, access to powerful foci, or dope-ass gear.

The reward I actually remember most wasn't even one of the decks, it was a powerful weapon foci for our sword adept. The run was a hit on a Warehouse guarded by Renraku where they were keeping a bunch of magically active supplies of a sub-A level corp they just bought. Nobody got cash, but the Sammy, Rigger, and I got sweet hardware upgrades and turning in the reagents got the adept a Custom-made, force 5 sword.

>>51861656
So basically I should beg my GM to give me a deck.

>>51861469
You could potentially lay hands on the Aztech Emissary or the Microtronica, 7531 or 2338. You can upgrade them a bit, but you cop some matrix damage from it.

>>51850903

Hey, that's my helmet. I'm shocked anyone saved the image.

>>51861676
That or get him to halve the deck prices

>>51861676
Steal stuff, steal data, hell, get a faraday pocket for when you can manage to steal a deck. If it's not better and you're not feeling up on your Hardware rolls (and get aid from a friendly Techno with a Machine Sprite), dump it on a fixer contact for 5%*Loyalty.

But most rating 2 decks are pretty fine for rolling around, and if you can find or steal your way to a better one, that's even better.

>>51861676

I mean, I guess? Considering how fucking expensive everything is, and how low the payout for missions is, I just always thought that was how the game was supposed to be played. I mean, admittedly I started with 5E so I don't know if that is how its always been, but Making runs where the rewards aren't cash/just cash just makes sense.

>>51861697
Buildpics, please.

>>51861827

It's not built, it's purchased:

http://www.5060.bigcartel.com/products

What range does the Spirit of Earth's Binding power have?

>>51861469
You're suppose to exercise houserules and do something rational and divide all cyberdeck prices by three.
There's a great deal of dumb bullshit in 5e, after all. The raw game is simply not worth playing by itself.

>>51861979
Go with LOS. It'd bind things with grasping rock and soil.

Saw an adventure ages ago where the runners ended up with a gun to Gary Cline's head. Charming devil that he is, he sent them off to do his own bidding instead. Can't remember the name. Any idea which it was?

>>51861985
I guess I'll talk to my GM about it. He's an oldfag though, might he hard to convince him.

>>51862334
What tier is your game? Street scum? Runners? You mentioned he's old, is he a turbo 1e grognard, or just likes things as written?

>>51862352
The normal tier. GM is like 40, I know he played 2e. Very by-the-book kinda guy.

>>51862428
If you can cop the matrix damage, upgrade the Microtronica's bits a bit using the rules in data trails. It's even fairly cheap. You could concievably take that 1 up to 9, and even if it's only DR3, P3, you'd have a 9/7/5/3 deck to play with for the 2 boxes of matrix damage. Or rework it, spend the parts to make the deck 4/4/4/4 across the board, then upgrade it. The rules are right there, so he can't argue with it.

>>51862428
The problem with a lot of 5e's prices is that they scale all the way back to 1e.
This would matter less if the rules weren't literally COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from 1e through 3e.
They use different stats, a different dice resolution mechanic, a different combat mechanic, a different base task resolution mechanic, etc.
One of the most imbicilic mistakes of 5e is trying to change things back to 2e and 3e prices without taking into account the staggeringly obvious fact that IT'S NOT EVEN THE SAME GAME ANYMORE.

>>51862485
What are the differences between the editions anyways? I've only read through 5e, and every time I ask, people either say "There's no difference", or they make some sort of CLEVER METAPHOR™ that tells me literally nothing.

I want details, man. What are the differences!

>>51862624

5e is "ipad-like devices that are made for decking because they're the only thing that can run programs"
4e was "everyone can be their own decker and/or do it remotely, because it was comlink scriptkiddies"
3e was "cyberdecks the size of casio keyboards for specialists

>>51856072
See, now this shit is exactly why I asked that question in the first place.

>>51862624
>every time I ask, people either say "There's no difference", or they make some sort of CLEVER METAPHOR™ that tells me literally nothing.
If you want to know, you have to go back to posts from around 5e release on the official forums. Otherwise you're going to get the same regurgitated shitty half answers. Each time, every time.

Ain't no one got time to sperg out lists of minute differences like that anymore.

Have fun picking out the truth from the "sky is falling" drama posters if you do bother.

>>51862624
4e took a much more 'abstract' rules system and tried to hammer things out so that you had a magic system that wasn't held together with prayer and freelancer cum. The game was made a bit less lethal (not by much, though), things were much better detailed and the wireless matrix thing came out, which was basically an attempt to move Deckers out from being an imposition on the team and into the game. You'd often need to have the GM run a seperate run just for the hacking parts, because it took a while. It didn't completely fix the problem, but still. There was an anniversary edition that was mostly patches on rules. 5e

5e took one patch, a rule change in late 4e to stop bows from being able to destroy tanks in one shot, and apply it to *everything* in the form of limits. They bring back decks and 'foundation runs' that 4e tried to move away from. Shadow rituals were actually a good addition to magic. I kind of liked it, but I'm a huge magic fag, so take that with a grain of salt. It also made the edition a bit more lethal.

>>51862675
1-2-3 used way different rules, dice roll systems, etc. Like, in 4 and 5e, a damage code might be 5P - 5 physical damage. In 1/2/3, you had weapons like 15D, or 13M. Target number, and if you didn't resist, you suffered a wound - L, M, S or D, which were notched somewhere on your physical damage track. Spells were learnt and cast and specific forces; traditions had very real mechanical differences, etc.

>>51862675
>>51862704

You two seem pretty knowledgeable. A friend at work who also plays told me that apparently 5e's development was steeped in drama and different factions within the company vying for different rules. Is there any truth to this?

>>51862710
Same bloke, just hit the character limit.

I know 4e was, not sure about 5. I'd guess he was talking about 4. Frank Trollman, a former author, had a massive shitfit when they didn't use his matrix rules. You can find his stuff on The Gaming Den, detailing why he wanted to do what he wanted to do and how. About 3/4ths of the way through 4e's lifespan, the fact that the company owners was embezzling huge amounts of money to do coke and refurbish their bathrooms (I wish i was joking) came out.

A few freelancers quit, many revoked the permission to use their work leading to rewrites of big chunks of books. I think it happened about book 3 of the Artifacts series. That accounts for the general shittiness of a lot of later books - not just rules and balance, but general formatting, editing, etc. The line's currently in the hands of a group who really dislike the 'pink mohawk' aspects of the game, and that shows through in places.

>>51862747
>About 3/4ths of the way through 4e's lifespan, the fact that the company owners was embezzling huge amounts of money to do coke and refurbish their bathrooms (I wish i was joking) came out.

Holy shit that is the most Shadowrun thing that could have happened to the Shadowrun guys.

>>51862780
Best thing is he didn't even get fired.

>>51862796
Yep. You can still support the piece of shit by buying Shadowrun products!

>>51862796
He did own like half of CGL.

>>51856707
Had a long campaign at the close of 4e as an orc rights activist who poured all his proceeds from runs into a fortress on top of one of the Underground's entrances in Puyallup (including drone cat surveillance across the district) and fucking up anyone who wanted to try and incorporate the OU into Seattle.

>>51860681
This. They bring in experts, but it's one guy at best for a chapter or two. Give us some variety.

>>51862780
No, that's the most corrupt corporate dickwad that could have happened.
The most Shadowrun thing that could have happened is if that happened then a bunch of freelancers armed themselves, stormed CGL, massacred any security on the way, hacked his bank accounts and took the money they were owed, and finally killed the guy by burning him alive in his own bathroom for irony's sake.

THAT would have been the most SR way the situation was resolved.

>>51863019
>No, that's the most corrupt corporate dickwad that could have happened.
You're contradicting yourself here.

>>51863019
>as the freelancer team pours the gasoline on the guy lying blood and ductaped on the floor they say a pithy one-liner as they light the match
>they walk away after tossing the match as the building goes up in flames
>wholly incongruous 80's cheery synthpop plays as the house burns and credits roll
>https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=1LUEglYmN30

>>51863036
Corrupt corporate dickwads exist in real life. There's nothing unrealistic about them, they receive no punishment and have little no chance of ever getting any come uppance for the shit they do.
Corrupt corporate dickwads are NOT one of the fantastical or sci-fi parts of Shadowrun.

Meanwhile, there's like thirty million short stories in SR books where the Johnson who refused to pay you eats a bullet for not paying them their fucking money.

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>>51861109
Go E stats

>>51863056
That's some pretty catchy music, what is it?

>>51863079
>Autism.png

So here's a question I'm struggling with:

How prevalent are Shadowrunners in seattle?

A noticeable percentage of the population? Small group of hundreds? Maybe a thousand?

An entire demographic?

I ask because I need a scale on how often runner team just fucking get wrecked by security/HTR.

>>51863114
Bubblegum Crisis.
One of the more pure 80's cyberpunk anime ever created, possibly because unlike most of them being created and written in the early 90's it was actually created and written DURING the 80's.

Makes aaaaall kinds of 80's cyberpunk pop culture references; Blade Runner, Terminator, Knight Rider, etc, all while giving you lesbian power armor superhero vigilante mercenary hijinks.

>>51863129
It's hard to say, because it's not like there's a census of them or anything.
There's few enough of them that the ones who get the job done often hear about each other through the local city rumor mill, but enough of them that despite this they could hear about them only second or third-hand and never meet each other in person.

And I'm guessing HTR teams often seriously fuck up less talented and prepared runners, though most teams will try to avoid such direct attention and instead try to get in and get out before they can mobilize a response.

>>51863019
I think Robert Derie and Jennifer Hardy might have been thinking about it, but then Jennifer Hardy realised she was na accountant and Derie was getting ragged on by all the other freelancers.

>>51863129
I think there's supposed to be like 500 or so 'regulars', with skills varying from street trash, getaway drivers and low-end thugs to high grade extraction specialists who fly to Manhattan for working weekends, mages who could drop kick dragons and cyberzombies, with a fairly regular turnover 'buffer' of another 500 or so who are new, doing 'one time' runs, or other criminals dipping their toes into the water for whatever reason. The city has a population of like 2 million, so that roles out as like half a percent of the population. I'm trying to remember what book I read the figure in.

>>51863198
Er, 0.0005 of the population rather than 0.005, so the numbers seem kosher.

>>51863159
So, I'm guessing there's hundreds or so in Seattle who want to be runners and attempt to be them and die in the first few runs, but only dozens of real pros who stick around in town and make it as a runner longer-term.
It seems like a lot, but there's over 3 million people in the Metroplex and it has a population density of 750+ per square kilometer, which means you could probably fit the entire runner population of Seattle into one city block and not fill out the city.

>>51862675
5e is way less lethal if you're smart. I'm talking to the tune of 44 armor with very little upkeep like under 50K cheap. If you decide to go higher, which is incredibly simple, you can be slinging like 50. More if you have a technomancer.

>>51863230
Look at where people come from, and the kind of jobs 'runners' handle - gangers, street kids, gangsters, college kids, fired corpies - and you get a good feed mechanism for 'new' runners. There's a bit of fiction in the anniversary edition that says less than 10% of the community survives their first year. So the turnover is, uh, high. And jobs aren't all extractions and wetwork, so you have 'runners' who aren't the 'traditional' kind.

>>51863272
Plus what makes a "Shadowrun" is pretty vague; it's literally anyone taking any money or reward for anything legal or semi legal reasons.

So what the hell does an Armor Jacket actually look like?
Clothes, ballistic vest, motorcycle jacket?

>>51863495
>MEMES MEMES MEMES

Quickly! Everyone fire off the most cancerous memes ever to grace /srg/ to satisfy this retard!

>>51863495

Personally I fluff it as a generalized piece of fashion that can look like a lot of things. Some look like motorcycle jackets, some look more like bomber jackets, etc.

>>51863495
Looks like a noticeably armored jacket.
As long as it adheres to that it could be anything you want.

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>>51863495
>>51863528
BEHOLD, THE AUTHOR.

>>51863528
....sorry, what? I don't get it.
I'm relatively new to the game.
>>51863529
Huh. So there's no canon standardized thing then? I guess that makes sense.
>>51863537
Query; what does "noticeably armored" mean in this context? Like, covered in/filled ceramic trauma plates like a heavy military vest? A very thick piece of ballistic cloth like a soft vest in life? Actual pieces of visible metal like a lot of sci-fi body armor?

>>51863567
You know how a really high end motorcycle jacket probably has some thin plates inside, you'll notice them, but it's not quite full SPEHSS MAHREEN PAULDRONS? Or the lower end ones have big chunky bits that don't move right because they're solid? That sort of thing. Given that armour vests are a thing and mostly unnoticeable when worn, I'd guess you could probably just fluff it as a very thick jacket.

Is there any way you can build or even design your own drones?

>>51863567
I'd lean more towards a motorcycle jacket with some plates personally, but I've seen people fluff them as all sorts of things.
With how common violent crime is implied to be in some parts of the sixth world there's assumedly enough demand for there to be a multitude of fashion choices when it comes to a protective jacket.

>>51863583
Got it, that's what I thought.
>Given that armour vests are a thing and mostly unnoticeable when worn,
I figured that was your garden-average ballistic cloth vest you wear under clothes that you can get in real life, maybe with some materials sciences advances to make it to lighter or tougher or whatever.

>>51863495
>So what the hell does an Armor Jacket actually look like?
It's something you would choose to wear into an area where local law enforcement will happily ignore someone threatening to shoot you, until they need to fill a quota, and local wildlife consists of savage critters that make walking around with a shotgun acceptable.

Wouldn't an APDS being fired from a .556 be a stupidly small projectile?

>>51863622
Yes.
Actually, an APDS round for pistols wouldn't really do a lot of damage, the wound channel would be way too small.
Mind you, tipping he bullet in hardened steel or tungsten or some other hard material would do the same thing as APDS does in-game without turning the round into a tiny little thing that pokes painful but largely non fatal holes in people.

>>51863621
My question has already been answered, but I still feel the need to point out that your answer WASN'T one. Like, you know that right?
What you said relies on so many separate variables just in modern day as opposed to a sci-fi/fantasy setting that it is effectively a meaningless non-answer.

>>51863650
It would be like getting a splinter that passes all the way through your body.

>>51863675
Pretty much. Hurts like a bitch but pretty useless in terms of hurting somebody.

>>51863669
If you can't extrapolate that into understanding that an armour jacket is going to be heavy armour and not particularly fashionable when the description and armour value says as much, then that's something you need to work on, son.

>>51863695
Just saying, I got an answer already and yours wasn't it. You used hypoboles and metaphors, no hard language, no comparable examples either in-universe or out of it in real life, and no descriptive language.

You just posted for the sake of posting, probably because you were bored, but equally probable that you just wanted to talk about a setting that (from what I gather on here) is one that even most regulars on /srg/ do not get to play in.

>>51863728
Why would I repeat what's already been posted? Instead I talked about where armour jackets exist in the setting and why people wear them.
>I'll get him with the /tg/ doesn't play games meme!
No luck, friendo.

>>51863828
>Why would I repeat what's already been posted? Instead I talked about where armour jackets exist in the setting and why people wear them.
That's fair then.
>I'll get him with the /tg/ doesn't play games meme!
How is that even a meme? It's blatantly untrue. I can barely walk through my local gaming store without hitting two ongoing D&D games.
I was speaking mostly of Shadowrun, which from what I can gather on here is hard to find a group or GM's for despite it's relatively well-known status?
I don't actually know the details on why. Do the rules scare off some people or something?

>>51863615
Seen John Wick? He puts on a fairly bulky vest before he heads to the club to slut drop. Barely even see it under the shirt he puts on, let alone the coat. And that's today - 2078 stuff is stupposed to be 'flexible wrap-around armour, to display a minimum of bulk'.

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>>51864025
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.
An undervest can be pretty protective in real life, but one rated Class-III can be pretty thick and heavy (under a regular shirt it kinda makes you look a little fat actually) and I assumed advances in materials sciences could lighten that load a bit.
Speaking of, what does the average beat cop or soldier wear on duty? Do they wear Armor Jackets too? I can see a cop wearing a jacket-like armor, but thinking of regular Army grunts wearing nothing but a vaguely motorcycle Armor Jacket seems odd to me.
Would it be something more like this, or would your average Army grin wear full body armor suits instead?

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>>51864069
Average beat cop wears an armored jacket, yeh.
Not sure which book to look in for military loadouts.

>>51864069
Honestly, best bet is to check some of hte location splat books. They've usually got a few images of stuff like airport cops, regular cop, etc. There's one that I like for KE cops, a few guys in cargo pants and button-ups with proper coloured 'uniform' vests with coloured logos in one of the Seattle books.

I just compared materials to AR for other items. A lined coat and a vest have the same, so I'd guess the vest is ballistic materials, probably a cm or two thick. Like wearing a few singlets all at once.

Hey yekka, The Warrior's Way doesn't actually reduce the karma cost for binding to a weapon foci! Also is there a way to get attunement to work or do I just manually do it?

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>>51864107
Yeah, I was guessing KE didn't always walk around in this intimidating-looking body armor stuff from SR:R, as kickass-looking as it is.
From what I'm reading up their more professional (albeit in a colder and more remote way) and more image-conscoscious then Lone Star is, as they also represent one of the Big 10.

>>51864183
That's airport and bad-area stuff, I think.

>>51864183
>From what I'm reading up their more professional (albeit in a colder and more remote way)
That's basically the key difference.
Lone Star act like modern cops who are particularly poorly trained, akin to the asshats in Chicago. They shoot first, usually in inapproptiate situations, never take responsibility for mistakes, are susceptible to bribes, have horrible race relations, are sexist and exclusivist, talk up a lot about how they're "special" because they're cops but are often just scumbags with legal authority.

KE is considerably more professional but their military leanings leads to different problems; they aren't as easy to individually bribe because they don't have the "look the other way" culture cops do but are correspondingly less chummy and more in the "SIR, PLEASE STEP AWAY OR I WILL OPEN FIRE" level of interaction with people, are very much about protecting the letter of the law and not it's spirit (meaning they'll beat you half to death if you're not where you're supposed to be, but for them it won't be because they hate your metatype but because you're not where you're supposed to be) and when they use force compared to Lone Star they get a lot more military about it and employ a shitload of firepower.

So one is a security company of corrupt cops and the other is a security company of professional gheshtapo military police assholes; they're both shitty, just different flavors of shitty.

>>51864308
and thats why NYPD Inc. is the best security corp

>>51863601
In the books?
Ask your GM
In chummer ?
Nope. Bet you can in Hero Lab. If only chummer would get drone creation tool just so it wont be so behind HERO LAB.
HERO LAB better!

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>>51865089
Okay who let the shilling agent into the host

Would it be massively unbalancing if in my game I shrunk RCC's down to only being the size of a cyberdeck?

>>51865197

An RCC is the same size as a deck, or at least they both have a -2 conceal mod.

>>51865217
The description has it being considerably larger, as far as I can see. Briefcases are not as small as iPads.
In addition; how the shit am I supposed to carry my drones everywhere? The ones actually good for combat aren't exactly small. Do I fly/walk/drive them all to the run location and hope no cop stops by to ask why the shit I have a truck's worth of drones with weapons on them following me? And do drones use up fuel?

>>51865338
>And do drones use up fuel?
Yes. All vehicles/drones are assumed to have enough (insert energy source) to run for 6 hours before needing a pit stop.

>Do I fly/walk/drive them all to the run location
1. Buy a van/pickup/big car/...
2. Stash lil' drones in big vehicle
(2bis. Equip the larger vehicle with a drone rack to deploy/stash the lil' ones faster.)
3. ????
4. Lounge in the driver seat sipping on a drink and playing with your mechanical pals while waiting for your meat'n'bone partners to rune into trouble and require a quick exit.

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Does your character actually use a katana?

>>51865842
No.

>>51863622
>.556
Ahaha. No, .557 t-rex is fucking huge.

In case you mean 5.56mmx45, yes, it would be very small.

>>51865842
I made a Jetstream Sam-esque character once. I ended up rotating to GM so he was demoted to an NPC before he even got to play as a PC.

>>51865842

Only one, and only because I realized I had never played a runner with a katana and thought I should change that. Seemed almost blasphemous to have never done it.

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>>51865842
Of course.

All of my characters so far have been Suda51 references.

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>>51865338
>how the shit am I supposed to carry my drones everywhere?

A car with drone racks. There's a reason that riggers generally have vans, and it's not so they can play soccer mom for the cheapass decker who didn't want to buy a scooter.

And go ahead and shrink away. A slightly smaller RCC isn't going to change much, and I always allow the RCCs to be modded with the same rules as decks (different form factors, etc).

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>releases two episodes in the same month

Is Opti back?

>>51867496
>There's a reason that riggers generally have vans, and it's not so they can play soccer mom for the cheapass decker who didn't want to buy a scooter.
Hey, it's fun to drive around the rest of the team, whether you're a rigger or a streetsam who doubles as a wheelman. What better way to rub how great a driver your are and how sweet your ride is than by driving everyone everywhere?

I'm planning a game that might lead the PCs through some of the least savory parts of the Sixth World, namely rich corp kids' parties and the things they get up to.
Some of the richest, most blunted, most pampered and most obsessively vain people on Earth will definitely use their parents' money for a fuckton of biosculpting, augmentations and freaky clothing, and I want to make it something that earnestly creeps the players out, to show exactly how indundated with corp propaganda and how destructively self-obsessed these people are.
It's just hard to write other people's wish-fulfillment and perversions, and seeing as I'm trying to make the party legitimately freaky instead of just leaking my own preferences, it's just not safe to leave it up to myself.

That's why I'll get samples here.
If you had ten million nuyen and absurdly rich and influential corp official parents, what kinds of biosculpting, cosmetic cybernetics, personafixes or Sixth World clothing would you get with it?
Shame and practicality don't matter, since the world is drowned in corporate advertising, you're practically untouchable and you have parents who can fix up all your mistakes and impulses.

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>>51867933
Have some stupid convoluted drinking game using extremely expensive booze that they waste (like 'take a shot, pour a shot into someone's cheap beer, throw shots in the air and catch them with your mouth before the other guy finishes his beer'). The loser is given over to a wagemage they hired/coerced who casts a custom sex-changing spell. Everyone then tries to fuck that person before the host gives the signal to the mage to stop sustaining the spell. Is it my fetish? You don't know

A heavily armed party bus motorcade that goes cruising through gangland. The kids sit inside a limousine armoured like a tank and man remote control turrets, while outrider cars funnel targets closer/keep away the really nasty shit.

An on-site cosmetic surgeon who constantly updates people throughout the party, using nanobots to quickly heal and conceal scars as the surgeon changes the shape of their ears, skin tones, gives some people forked tongues for 7 Minutes in Heaven, etc.

>>51867933
There isn't really much you can do regarding clothing or body modification that would frag off a runner. Runners are freaks in their own right and the costly and questionable things they will do to their bodies in the name of efficiency will trump almost anybody "normal", even those with lavish and excessive tastes.

But if you really want to annoy/disgust your runners, have a bunch of rich people showing off expensive body mods and gear... that they do nothing with. Give the rich asshole a stupid yertz'd out gun that he just uses for his monthly range practice. Have another show off her extensive collection of foci, even though she is a mundane who just fetishizes the magical community. Let the runners overhear how many times the businessman at the cocktail table has undergone a Leonization procedure.

Nothing with tick off a runner more than wasted potential and burned money.

>>51867933
>If you had ten million nuyen and absurdly rich and influential corp official parents, what kinds of biosculpting, cosmetic cybernetics, personafixes or Sixth World clothing would you get with it?
A slightly bigger jaw, broader shoulders, 6 more inches of height,10% bodyfat, huge, well-defined muscles, a 3 inch length extension and a 1 inch girth extension on my penis, testicles the size of chicken eggs, a little more body hair, silky hair, perfect eyes, skin and teeth....but hey, I'm pretty fucking vanilla.

>>51868054
There are a lot of runners out there, who run for each their own reasons.
There are runners of every religion and half of all weird cults, of all age groups, genders, sexualities and political viewpoints, not to mention mages and shamans who usually tend to be more conservative regarding tech.
Runners are generally not extremely touchy about augmentations, but that's because they entrust them with their lives and can't be picky. It's a whole different thing, like >>51868054 says, when they're taken just for the hell of it, and that's probably going to be able to freak a lot of characters.
On top of that, how many Awakened characters have you played as/with who're completely unopposed to rampant augmentation and cosmetic modifications? I don't think it's all of them. In fact, a common trait in my experience for Awakened characters is to have them hate cybernetics with a passion.

>>51867933
What was the maximum number of cyberpenises again?

>>51854474
Member of the First Nation gang, they run firearm supply jobs for gangs in San Francisco (which is the exact context of the image; it's from the San Fran Metroplex installment of the Shadows in Focus series for 5e)

>>51868446
What I heard that the book is trash. From a technical side this is expected from cgl. But is what's they did with sans after Saito dumb too?

>>51868446
First Nations gang, rather. Centered in Seattle.

>>51868543
It's actually not that bad, just not particularly exciting.

San Fran is bouncing back after Saito, the metroplex now encompasses the entire Bay Area along with Silicon Valley, making it roughly the size of the state of New Jersey. The mayor martyr'd herself to ensure further development. It's become the epitome of west coast liberal progressivism.

It's one of the nicer places in the region, but the Oakland area is still a hive of shit since everyone is neglecting to develop there (the reason given is that Shiawase owns most of the city's development contracts, but they refuse to hire metahumans due to lingering Saito Brand Hyper-Racism, so they're just not getting anything done in the area.)

The police are city-owned, but corrupt via Ares and KE roots, and police brutality rates against metahumans are super high. Most of the crime is run by the Yakuza, the Triads, and big local gangs. BTLs are shipped out en masse, and they receive a ton of smuggling traffic from the north.

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>>51868543
>>51868674

Which is the most overused BBEG in SR and why is it bodysnatchers? Also the most overused plot is Big D's Will.

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>>51868674
>The mayor martyr'd herself to ensure further development. It's become the epitome of west coast liberal progressivism.

Yes to the first, no to the second. She (or rather her second in command who took the reins after she died) tried to use her death to bring everyone together. But nobody wants to be together, they're only signing on with the SF megacity because all the individual cities are broke and ruined, and the new mayor promised massive funding which he is unable to deliver on to everyone. Half the population still hate metahumans, the other half hates that half, and there's a bunch of post-Saito terror groups (sorry, 'freedom fighters' because they won) running around without much to do but pursue political agendas against each other and devolve into gangs.

>>51868810
Thanks for the clarification, chummer. The place seems like a good setting for social campaigns. I'm trying to learn more about it, since I'm looking at a campaign set there, but I did too much of my reading while sleep-deprived.

>>51865842
Two, actually. I went full cyborg weeb build with him.

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>>51868927
post sheet

>>51868810
Is that about to turn into a gangrape? That looks like it's about to turn into a gangrape.

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How well would a Shadowrun TV show be received? Would it be best animated (cgi or traditional) or liveaction? What would be the best network, aside from Netflix, to run the show?

>>51869115
Hey now, let's not turn this robbery into a gangrape.

>>51869187
Poorly, cartoon in the style of Archer (live action would be impossible to do right on a tv budget), FX

>>51869202
Who the hell brings 3 other guys to snatch a little lady's purse though?

>>51869244
Gang initiation. Those orcs are actually about 8 years old and learning the ropes.

What are some good items that add armour on top of the base of your jacket/vest/whatever you are wearing? I have a +6 to str and I don't know what to get other that a helmet

>>51865842
She owns a katana and has it with her all the time because she is a weeb, but she doesn't know how to use it

>>51869457
PPP kit, forearm guards and ballistic/briefcase shields are your friends, as is various kinds of cyberware.

My GM decides to have nearly everything we're doing something illegal in protected by a Spider and/or a R5-6 host. Given that none of them have read the matrix rules/understand how dangerous the matrix really is, naturally my group doesn't seem to get why I'm reticent to go shut down 4 cameras slaved to that host, especially given that we've had no real downtime for me to register a sprite stable, meaning I have to compile sprites mid-run (complex action) and have a singular sprite operating at a time.

What do? My idea is circumventing it via a Deep Hack but that seems to place too much workload on the GM.

>>51869694
ask your GM for more downtime
also ask him to maybe ease up a bit

if both don't work do your thing, he who seeds wind reaps storm

>>51869187

Poorly, because half of the people who play Shadowrun would be pissed that it isn't Pink Mohawk enough, the other half would be pissed that it isn't Black Trenchcoat enough, and the general pop-culture mindset can't imagine a world with both fantasy and sci-fi elements blend together.

The entire thing would be a fucking travesty as Network execs trying to please everyone just end up making a shit product.

>>51869694

For a spider the answer's, well, not easy but murderously simple. Risk taking some physical to get a high level Fault Sprite into play and use the one service for combat, while you run Silent and hopefully get to use the erratted fading values for your forms. Still may wish to use edge on some of those forms. (Depends on how you plan on doing things)

Unless you can get a few services for that high level Fault; then you should use one service to get marks via Hack on the Fly and then Combat. And this is assuming you're getting into the host or otherwise not letting the Spider get too much bonus protection.

>>51869694
You get Puppeteer and you force the spiders to shut-down security.

If the GM wants to lock you out with bullshit, you can cheese a bit.

>>51869694
http://shadowrun.com/forums/discussion/comment/181431/#Comment_181431

>>51870065
and forgot
>Every time, until you like it

>>51870077
Omae, I already like it. In fact, it finally gave me a reason to stop veto'ing technos on my table as long as they read that. Would be great if they also read the Matrix Rules, but that's too much to ask apparently.

So do all AAs have to start issuing corporate SINs to their employees? People never talk about Lone Star citizens for example.

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>>51870196
Lone Star cops are LS citizens. The difference is that LS is a focus megacorp around security and the prison-industrial complex, so they don't have the massive backend of, say, Universal Omnitech, which has design facilities, factories, distribution networks, etc. In one of the 3e books they mention a town in Texas which is pretty much entirely LS, a giant megaprison and the people to support them.

>>51870196
IIRC no, they can, but they don't have to do that. Extraterritoriality means that on their ground it's their rules, but it doesn't mean that anyone has to be given a corp SIN, just that they can

>>51870065
>>51870077
I'm already playing an as-reccomended and abusing reduced fade CF petnomancer. Diffusion of Firewall is a life-saver. But hard to be a petnomancer when you have no sprite stable and just have to on-the-fly compile a R6 sprite to give you 2 tasks.

>>51869949
Yeah. The problem is endemic to the Matrix rules themselves.
>Run the matrix like combat, and every round the server is going to get a matrix PER check to find whatever doesn't belong inside of it
>You or your sprites are going to fail the stay hidden check at some time because you top out at like 12-15 dice and its a R5-6 host+spider, it is going to launch IC, even if you kill the spider you're still in cybercombat with IC while you're trying to do your job and dataspike/res spike/shut down those cameras with whatever you've got

>>51870268
Their grounds, their rules... and their responsibilities. Seems a bit odd that you'd have an extraterritorial body inside a larger nation that wouldn't have proper documentation for their citizens and all the necessary support for them.

Unless they have a deal of some kind with the nation-state that allows free movement, but in that case, why have extraterritoriality?

The whole concept of extraterritoriality and corporate court is retarded to begin with, but let's ignore that part.

>>51868385
I think it was in the ballpark of ~300

>>51870345
Data Trails gives a much better timescale for Patrol IC. For a rating 5 or 6, it suggests 1d6+2 rounds between checks... if you haven't started to screw up or screwed up.

At that point, yeah, it's looking for you constantly. This is one of those things that'd be solved by another sprite, but like you said. No chance to get those extra three turns by having your Crack Sprite squatting in the host with Supression running.

And having the Fault running openly can have some purposes in mid-rating host. 28 dice to defend (mostly) after FMD can crash a few IC after a while.

>>51870587
Hm. Interesting. So you're recommending I purposely send in a yuge Fault once it's alerted and just let it occupy their attention while Crack works away, hidden?

Could be pretty damned funny. Gonna give it a try next time I can compile/reg a Crack.

>>51864172
What does attunement do?

>>51870830
Well, the actual actions of the Crack will depend on what IC the host has and the order of it. (I'd say a use for IC Tray, but you could probably also find it with a good enough Matrix Search.)

If there's something really nasty, or the Host will bring back up Patrol before launching something new, it's probably good to have the the Crack spend a task on Supression for that turn or turns so that that bad thing (or the resumption of Patrol) is delayed a bit.

Otherwise, yeah. Although if you can spare the space for two Crack Sprites, just have one sit there using Suppression while the other works.

Doubly so if you feel safe-ish binding a rating 7 Crack Sprite just to spend a task per host run delaying IC for four turns each.

>>51871173
Page 124 SG

>>51871271
Oh, that stuff. It's in the queue, it'll be gotten to at some point. https://github.com/chummer5a/chummer5a/issues/670

What's it like for a human male to have sex with a female troll? Can he even satisfy her? Does everything grow proportionally or not? Is it appropriate to hold on to her horns during felatio? So many questions.

How aware is your average wageslave that he's being buttfucked by corps?

>>51871758
>Is it appropriate to hold on to her horns during fellatio?

I imagine it's like grabbing an IRL girls hair during a blowjob. Rude unless you're close or she's into that kinda thing.

>>51871779
>buttfucked
How so? He is fed, secured, given everything he needs. His children are provided a safe environment, they get access to education and don't have to fear about whether they'll get a job or not. And all that just for being loyal to your corp and working for them. How is this bad?

In my mind most of them don't know, and most of those that do know don't care. A gilded cage is better than being on the streets, after all

>>51871758
I don't believe it's openly stated whether male trolls are hung like donkeys or gorillas, but establishing either will tell you how hard she will be to satisfy.

Dermal deposits are going to be an issue, as is strength and goblinoid smell.

>>51871779
Not really. He has a roof over his head, food on the table every night, and a job that makes him enough to raise a family, with the corp-provided subsidies and discounts at the company store. Sure, it's really long hours, and there's some freedoms he doesn't have, but all he needs to do is turn on the trids and see people far worse off than himself living only a dozen miles away in the slums.

Market Panic (iirc) has a story about a wageslave being interviewed about his daily life.

>>51871913
>goblinoid smell
Is the fluff 100% on this one? Or is it just a few writers?
Also gorillas aren't hung as far as I know, and they have very small testicles relative tot heir size because they have little male sexual competition in their group.

>>51871758
This is a reminder that Trolls, like all other metatypes and metavariants are fundamentally humans, and thus likely to have genitalia compatible with other humans.

>>51871971
That's the point, anon was offering two extremes, really large (donkey) and really small (gorilla).

>>51872002
I don't think anyone refutes that, the question is whether the human pelvis could survive the ordeal.

>>51871971
>Is the fluff 100% on this one?
It's a real thing. Bio or cyber cosmetic surgery will work on it.

>>51871779
Probably distantly or even actively aware, but also aware that life as a SINless is far more dangerous and likely even worse.

>>51872030
Trolls weight around 300kg on average.
Better get on top because if SHE gets in top she'll ride your lower half into paste.

>>51872052
Is it stated anywhere how bad it is?

Because there's a difference between
>Your shampoo requirement is somewhat higher due to needing a bit more to get those stubborn odors out
and
>If you don't shower two (or even three) times per day nobody will want to stay in one room with you any longer than absolutely necessary

>>51872148
Not really clarified, no.
It's one of those 1e things (like orks naturally being psychoticslly violent, or being pure carnivores, or elves being unable to eat meat, or dwarves being naturally agorophobic) so how referenced it is in later editions is variable at best.

In my opinion "ork litters" should be ignored like a lot of that other shit should because it makes even less sense then half of the other crap they wrote early on and I learned it was wrong in my high school biology class. Even just reducing the pregnancy time by half or more would accomplish the same thing, in addition to fitting the orc lifecycle better.

>>51871779
As a wageslave, yes. But its a living. A man's got bills to pay.

>>51872148
It's never been defined exactly how bad, but I feel somewhat safe in saying for a few editions it's been invoked a few times as part of the lower Cha maxes for Orks, Trolls, and most variations thereof.

>>51872260
It's kinda annoying whenever it links Cha to appearance, because elven body physique was definitely considered attractive back in 1990, but nowadays people's definition of good-looking bodies is a LOT more variable.
I look at elf weight and height measurements and I don't think "hot" I think "Jesus lady, eat a fucking sandwich or something".

>>51872327
>a fucking sandwich
that we can do!

>>51872327
I know that for a bit, Cha has been a mix of both physical attributes and non-physical ones.

So you could have somebody that's got CHA 3, butt ugly, but knows how to work a crowd. Or CHA 3, looks good, but should never speak without a prepared script.

Or a speaker with good oration, good, form, just a good speaker, bad looks, and is CHA 4 or 5.

>>51872218
>delicate work with sweat glands and body oil production to reduce their output and make them more friendly to human noses
It's still very much in 5e, just not given a comparative value of stench beyond "humans don't like it".

>>51872373
I take "in 5e" with a grain of salt due to the heavy grognardry in the fluff.
I prefer consistency and common repetition instead myself.

Hey guys, quick question about Adepts.

Say I had Attribute Boost (Reaction). We enter combat, I go first because ridiculous Initiative score. I use Attribute Boost (Reaction), score say, 3 hits. Would that retroactively change my current initiative or would I need to wait until the next turn cycle and Initiative rolls before I gain any advantage off it?

>>51872397
iirc it has no effect on initiative.

>>51872327
>>51872360
4e, at least, specifically called out beauty (as a cosmetic surgery choice) as something that you can use to change who finds you attractive, but not how much of the world finds you attractive.

>Beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder, and sexual ideals vary with culture, metatype, and time. As always, different societies and even different groups within society have different perspectives on beauty and what are acceptable standards in appearance. Social standing also figures into the mix. Access to body sculpting and cosmetic surgery creates a huge “beauty” gap between the haves and have-nots. Anyone who can afford it can be attractive, whereas the poor people have to run with what they’re born with, or can only pay for cheap cosmetic surgery.
>Different cultures also have different standards. Tir Tairngire crooner Gildrimel’s love song Fairy Girl competes for the number one spot with Los Angeles Orxstar Kaniball’s Room for a Litter— two songs espousing feminine ideals of sexual attractiveness that are impossible to reconcile.
>The gamemaster may decide whether biosculpting and cosmetic bioware have an impact on any given social situation by applying modifi ers as appropriate (see Body Mods and Social Interactions, p. 20). Also keep in mind that while it is entirely appropriate for characters to gain a +2 dice pool bonus to Social skill tests for being romantically attractive to some NPCs (see p. 131, SR4A), it is important to remember that such a bonus also makes a character more memorable and there is literally nothing that a character could do to their body that would make them attractive to all the people all the time. These dice are good for first impressions only; they wear off with time

>>51872397
Attribute Boost is a dicepool bonus, it doesn't affect derived attributes like melee damage or initiative.

>>51872385
You're not making sense. Either you want the groggy consistency they're putting out, or you want them to stop with whatever shit offends your sensibilities. Or neither, but both is just schizophrenic.

If you don't take "5e" well, then back up to "still very much in".