Fantasy General: Elven Marines Edition. >Previous Thread

The most disappointing thing about AoS was it proving Sigmar actually existed.
I thought the implication was always that the majority of gods were just memes.

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> Where were you when Fantasy made Elves cool again?

>>51717699

I done fucked the thread name up...

>>51717679
Sigmar existing wasn't the issue, only that he STILL existed as a mortal man. GW changed the rules to fit their story. He was a mortal who lived a full life and died somewhere in the east. Years later people began to worship him as a god and that collective belief began to take shape.

>>51717679

Yeah I preferred the Gods that way. Except the Old Ones, but they were all dead/mundane and only perceived to be Gods by lesser beings.

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>>51717699
Elves have an enjoyable look, but I've never really been attracted to them as a faction for some reason. Maybe because it's hard to make them seem flawed in a way that's actually interesting, without completely taking away what's Elvish about elves.

>>51717876

Is being too perfect a flaw?

They're like graduates. they've arrogant and think they know it all but a few years in the real world knocks it out of them.

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>>51717981
But they're supposed to be at the forefront of everything and the ones that actually know it all.

>>51718713
>>51717981
They are arrogant but it's an arrogance born out of actually achieving shit. They were the ones to save the world the first time around. They may have had help from the Slann but it was their plan and their mages they had to sacrifice to get the Vortex up and running.

With the dragons, which are essentially the fantasy equivalent of nukes, they're like a superpower. They've taken hits along the way but would likely consider that because they're still standing they're clearly the superior race.

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Elf appreciation... on /tg/...

>>51719470
>>Warhammer Elves
>>Aren't split into a million subspecies, rather three political groups
>>Do badass shit
>>Save the world

I don't see why /tg/ wouldn't like them, memes aside.

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>>51719470
Warhammer elves don't fuck around...okay, well they do fuck around, but they fuck around at much more manageable levels. Most elves in fantasy just vaguely exist and aren't bothered.

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>>51717679
memes become reality in the warp tho

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>>51719470
we can fix that if you want

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>>51719470
That banner needs to go away. There were always elf-fans on /tg/.

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I actually really like the Dark Elf and High Elf warring, even if the reasons behind it sometimes get stupid or the fact that it can exist gets nonsensical.

It's a struggle between 'siblings' that has torn the world asunder multiple times, but it's not the same as the vague antithesis between the Norscans and the Empire or the Chaos Dwarves and Dwarves. Where in many ways those are distant and indirect, the High Elf and Dark Elf struggle is real and constant. As far as they're concerned, aside from the threat of chaos perhaps, everything else is just a potential tipping point or stepping stone in their war.

>>51718713
I love Warhammer Fantasy creepy alien-eyed elves.

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Hey, from my reading of warhammer fantasy novels, it seems that large cities and towns always have some presence of cultists or chaos worshippers due to the nature of humans.

Accordingly, would it be authentic if larger empire cities generated small amounts of corruption on their own to mirror that activity on the campaign map?

pic unrelated.

>>51720607
It's kind of interesting to think how the dwarf High King could have been in his counting house or some human chieftain sitting down to dinner while the Vortex was being undone. Hadn't Caledor Dragontamer and his mages stepped in the whole world would have been fucked and very few outside of Ulthuan would have any idea as to what happened. All because Malekith didn't get his crown.

>>51720787
Possibly, though the buildings available should be able to cancel it out. I always found corruption, both Chaotic and Vampiric, very difficult to remove. I don't know if I was doing something wrong but I could never get it below 20% except in places that it never took hold.

>>51720839
corruption is exponential. Midgame onward you have a global event that gives a global chaos corruption so if you have mid to high levels of corruption it should add up.

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>>51720787
>bretonnian peasants with guns

>>51720921
nothing like progressing through the techtree in a total war game.

now correct me if I am wrong but bretonnia had handgunners and bombards in older lore.

>>51721019
They did but Bretonnia was a completely different army back in 4th and previous editions. They were pre-Revolutionary France, not Crusades era France and Britain with Arthurian legends. They had gunpowder, an incredibly corrupt nobility and a despotic ruler called the Sun King. In 5th and beyond that was changed to the more 'modern' Bretonnia of knights, honour and so on. Bretonnia still has gunpowder but only used in its navy.

>>51721041
what's wrong with wanting older versions of bretonnia?
You don't have to subscribe to my mod.

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>>51721041
I thought at some point there was a vague mixing of the lores - at least with the Sun King having been the ruler before Leoun, and some small details like that.

It's still nice to have a chance of variety for a videogame - maybe you get bonuses to certain units for avoiding gunpowder, but if you take it you lose those bonuses or even take penalties. Sort of like something I think Shogun Total War had. Or how the Byzantines weren't supposed to be able to have gunpowder at all in Medieval 2 Total War, but they still had access to bombards and mercenary units.

>>51721245
5th edition had a bit of that, though only that Louen's father was the Sun King. They still had no gunpowder weapons. This was before the lore had the requirement that all Bretonnian kings had to become Grail Knights first, so they used to have weak and/or corrupt rulers like the Empire.

>>51716831
I'm thinking Albion.

>>51721245
I am thinking of making a completely new bretonnian unit class of professional infantry. Basically men at arms but armed with pikes and dakka.

>>51719470
>>51719778
WHFB Elves are closest to Noldor in level of badassery among all fantasy elves. Still far away, obviously, but closer than others.

>fight Vampire Counts as Gelt in TWW
>raining molten gold on them, wiping their units out
>they get wrecked hard and when begging for peace treaty offer me gold, even though vampires use dark magic instead of coins
>gee, I wonder where that gold come from

so, do I get it right that while human wizards can never achieve an elf's level of mastery over magic they got tremendous raw talent, so they can match elves in sheer power?

>>51717624
>High-elves
How Brits see themselves
>Dark elves
How the world sees them

Accurate?

>>51721595
bah, brits stopped sailing the globe and raiding and raping countries many many years ago. Brits are Wood Elves these day

US are Dark Elves. making a living off wars and conflicts, in addition to being extremely entitled and stuff.

>>51721612
I'm pretty sure the Brits are the Orcs if their teeth are anything to go by.

>>51719929
Stupid Slann poster.

>>51720921
This
Stop making knights obsolete.

>>51722393
you cannot stop the progress, you filthy luddite

so why do Slann and Slaanesh have such similar spelling?

>>51722429
hm, that actually gives me an idea of a new Bretonnian unit

rabid traditionalists, who either through unconcious magic usage, Lady's blessing, WAAAGH!-like gestalt field or all three combined wreck enemy tech.

Something like
Clockstoppers
Special, Cavalry
M4 WS2 BS3 S3 T3 A1 W1 Ld6
Horse, Great Weapon, Throwing Weapons/Javelins

Gain +1 to hit and Stubborn when in combat against units armed with Handguns, Crossbows, Hand Crossbows, Pistols, as well as any War Machines, Skaven Weapon Teams, any models named Engineer, Grim Burlocksson, etceteraetcetera.

Any aforementioned unit that suffers at least one wound from Clockstoppers gains a counter of Clockstop.
In addition, if such a unit begins a turn within 9" of a Clockstoppers unit, it must pass a Leadership test or gain a counter of Clockstop.

If a unit has a counter of Clockstop, it must roll a d6 before shooting (or attacking, in case of some warmachines). On a roll of 6 it cannot do so, as it is beset by malfunctions and misfires.
Warmachines with Clockstop counter instead Misfire on the roll of 6.
This also affects Skaven Warlock Engineers, who suffer Miscast on same roll of 6.


Yes, the name is stupid, it's placeholder.

>>51720787
>>51720787
That's a neat idea. Make it so that temples and Witch Hunters cancel it out, however.

https://youtu.be/XetTBjCw6TU

>>51723259
saw it.


>>51722918
they already do that.

>>51721041
I miss the rapscallions

>>51723259
Oh man. She's pretty damn hot too. For a corpse anyway...

>>51723259
yay, makes me a happy Vlad

>>51723259
THICC

>>51718856
>With the dragons, which are essentially the fantasy equivalent of nukes, they're like a superpower.
Unless said dragons eat a cannon ball.
Nuln artillery corps > dragons.

>>51721514
Teclis faction maybe. The rest are Valinor faggots, staying in paradise singing and doing poetry n shit.

>>51723781
only in tabletop, where fliers cannot fly because stupid rules

attack right from above and those cannons can do nothing.

>>51723805
you do realize that in Tolkien's works greatest magic is done through song? e.g. Music of Ainur, Bombadil's songs, Finrod's duel with Sauron, Luthien's duel with Sauron, Luthien bewitching Morgoth, etc.

Vanyar, who were stated to be the greatest clan of elves, IIRC, weren't JUST singing. They were doing some serious magic.

So that comparison is totally in WHFB elves' favour.

>>51724001
>point guns upwards
>glorious flak battery.

>>51724077
>cannonballs fall back upon your own positions
indeed

>>51722393
>implying that knights became obsolete because of gunpowder, rather than social and economic changes

>>51724356
indeed
cost of a gun and ammo dropping to affordable levels is an economic change
lower classes gaining access to guns and pikes is pretty drastic social change

>playing TWW as Empire
>my own provinces either hate me or just don't care about me
>Bretonnia is my BFF

whyyyyy?

>>51724404
>lower classes gaining access to guns and pikes is pretty drastic social change
>pikes
????

It's probably more about the failure of feudalism and the rise of professional armies. The apex of plate armour came after the introduction of firearms after all.

>>51724514
pike blocks, invulnerable to cavalry, one of the main reasons knights died out and would've died out even without firearms.

>>51721554
I mean, there's humans like Nagash or Gelt that managed elf tier feats.

>>51724535
And that's kinda bullshit. Pikes were a good weapon against knights on horses, but not their end. Cavalry was still used even after they stopped using pikes. It's true that the development of professional infantry stopped the dominance of the heavy armored rider of the low middle ages. But that's certainly not the end of the knight class. There were socio-economical reasons for that, heavily armored riders were still used on the battlefield afterwards and they could be "knights", meaning noblemen.

>>51724535
It's not a thing of weapons, it was more that feudalistic duties - knights serving their lords militarily - were no longer as necessary with the rise of professional armies. And there were other opportunities for noble sons, in the world of economics and politics, that were growing far more lucrative than being a knight, so many simply stopped training to be knights.

If it had still been desired, the knight could have been forced as a concept for years even after technologically becoming obsolete. Armor never quite went out of fashion until the modern soldier, even if in later years it was only a breastplate.

>>51724104
>cannonballs asplode shooting down dragons with bits of shrapnel.

>>51724535
That's what I said.
Pikes were not a new development. It's just a long stick, and pike blocks have been used since the bronze age.
What changed was the socioeconomics that made disciplined massed infantry the mainstay of armies.

>>51720787
The 0% percent corruption in TWW doesn't mean there is none, it means your Sigmarites plus Dwarf influence are making it ineffective.

>>51721902
Who's the Gorfuckers?

>>51722440
In-universe? Coincidence.

Meta? Old Irish word, sounds magical and cool. Slann kind of match the definition, vaguely.
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/slán

>>51724104
give 'em a fuse, mid-air explosions

alternatively: cannons on tower spires

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>>51724940
>Shrapnel kills crews and destroys cannons

Not strange for it to exist though, if ineffective. There were a lot of artillery experiments in real life. One of the more interesting ones was a chain with two balls at the end in two cannons, designed to obliterate everything in its path. Because cannons don't fire at exactly the same time it blew out of one and went around destroying both cannons and killing both crews. A double-barreled single cannon sort of worked, but not well enough to spread.

It did result in applying the concept to a single cannon, chain shot.

hey /tg/.. playing 8th edition with the Empire. I need some help with a good 1250 points list. Im still a beginner. It seems chaos just wipes the floor with me. Dat heavy infantry man... also dat heavy cavalry... I had some success with my steam tank but it gets melted by Lore of Metal. Problem was i left my wizard out of the list. I was under the impression it was not that important. Then the tank gets melted... shit. I have a warrior priest and a large block of halberds. It seems that detachments are not super useful at this point limit.. should i try another large unit ? like... great swordsmen ? What magic items i should have. Besides the from now on mandatory dispell scroll.

>>51723259
>tfw don't have powerful enough PC to run TW:WH at high quality
>tfw it recently started stuttering and crashing so I can't play it at normal quality either

gonna have to get a new gaming PC desu

Soo I am planning a final fight. My players face a tilean fencer with bunch of mooks while the main bad guy fucks off on the stairs up. The whole idea is that him or his father are nurgle worshippers and one of them turns mutant and it's the final fight after that. The idea is when he pops up - who will come help them? Witch hunter? Road Warden? A knight? City guard captain?

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>be interested in fantasy
>is dead and closest FLGS is GW so even if others wanted to play I still couldn't
>get into 40k
>40k is scarily close to being killed aswell

Fuck GW. How popular is Fantasy/9th Age and how close rules-wise is 9th Age to Fantasy?

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>>51726425

Unfortunately at that points limit Empire will struggle and Warriors of Chaos will do better than usual.

Empire rely a lot of units working together and at that point limit, once you have a wizard, tank and 50 state troops you won't have room for much else.

I would try 3 things.

1. Try some detachments on your state troops to disrupt. Halberds are great for this. Alternately try some crossbows or gunners to help take the charge. I'm not sure how effective this will be as I tend to not have much luck with these units.

2. Demi-gryph Knights are just about the best toe-to-toe fighters in our book. You won't be able to get many in but 3-4 should make mincemeat of a flank.

3. Try some more artillery. A volley gun with an engineer should soften them up a bit.

I love Greatswords and I use them in bigger games but honestly they're not that great.

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Does the empire use pikemen in the lore?

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>>51727821

9th Age is very close to Fantasy 8th edition but is more geared towards having diverse armies made up of different units.

I think it's still niche but it's probably the most popular Fantasy successor by a big margin.

>>51727985
Spearmen. Pikemens are tilean. This game is just retarded

>>51728035

I think these are mods.

Bretonnia definitely doesn't have any gunpowder in the main game.

>>51728053
I dunno, I never played it - but for example I saw reikland greatswords without the carrobourg scheme colors.

>>51728075

But you can have that?

Only great swords from Carrobourg have red, the rest will be white.

>>51728075
Greatsword regiments aren't all from the Carroburg Greatswords.

>>51728075
The Empire also uses the wrong colour scheme, I think it was a creative decision since Reikland's colours look like crap and it might not have been on the bill to give certain units different colour schemes in the same army.

>>51728116

>>51728130
All reikland greatswords have carrobourg scheme since the siege of carrobourg, anon.

>>51728137
Yeah.

>>51728137

Yeah they were going to have red and black be the main colour, then they switched to Talabecland.

Eventually I think each province will be its own army.

>>51728181
They should have been Reikland from the start, same with all the other factions being Couronne, Karaz-a-Karak, etc. Once you reach a certain amount of confederation you switch your faction name and banner to that of the united faction. If anyone has ever played Knights of Honor you'll know what I'm talking about.

>>51728035
That screenshot is from a mod, you can notice by some pixels and by how they arw handling orcish crafts

>>51728208
Knights of Honor what a game.

>>51727804
Anyone?

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>>51728178

I don't think they are anon. If you look at the Empire's heraldry book on p. 41 it says 'the unit changed its colours' and shows an example of a white Greatsword. Sorry to get autistic.

>>51720921
>>51721019

This is non twwh core, thats a mod.

>>51728224
this.
I have crippling autism and not having pike in my pike and shota is pretty boring.

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>>51728328
>pike and shota

>>51721902
Tolkien orcs are based off british working class, so you might be on to something.

Living here confirms, go to liverpool and you will see people who both speak and look like orks.

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>>51728347
you put the pike in the shota.

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>>51727804

>>51728035
Its a mod idiot

>>51727804
Rat Catcher.

But in all seriousness, what major NPCs are there in your campaign that could conceivably help them? Unless your plan is to introduce someone completely new, then a Witch Hunter would suffice. He might arrest them until the players can clear up what really happened.

Or a member of a cult of Tzeentch.

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>>51721595
>>51721612
>>51721902
>>51728352

>>51728406
Why not shotas armed with pikes?

>>51728461
That's a pretty autistic reaction to banter.

>>51728447
>>51728417

Witch Hunter or that other idea are great. Thanks

>>51728511
Runs into the halfling with a greatsword problem. Is it just a sword for a normal man? Is a little boy armed with a spear counted as wielding a pike? A regular pike would be very difficult for him to bear. much like my suit.

>>51728461

Butthurt Brit detected.

>>51728579
do both: witch hunter's retinue investigating local plagues diffusion undercover as rat catchers

>>51728580

I'm not well versed in the ways of shotas, so sadly cannot help with such existential questions

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>>51728549
>>51728610
I'm a Burger actually.

Just this whole argument of X is Y because they both wear shoes or some other completely unrelated coincidence.

It's called Fantasy.

Ok, what are the colors of reikland?

>>51728665

The same as the KKK.

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>>51728665
I can see why they didn't go with Reikland's colour schemes, same with why Karl Franz was never pictured with Reikland troops in any of the model photos. It's an ugly colour scheme, just like France in Total War: Empire, it's a bright white that's distracting.

>>51728663
Dingdong, you're wrong. A lot of stuff in WHFB has historical inspiration because the Warhammer devs of old were actually educated on the subject.

History is also actually more interesting than the fantasy genre when you really get into the complexity.

>>51728728

Fantasy is based on the Early Modern period. This was a pre-national era. Comparing anything in this to the nations of today is unlikely to be relevant except in regards to the politics of Britain in the 1980's.

Elves, Dwarfs and the rest were inspired from Celt mythology and middle-English myths that Tolkien specialised in at Oxford.

T. MA History.

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so why doesn't the empire use pikes?

>>51729174
In the lore they do, specifically in Averland I believe. In game it's so it gives all the factions something unique about them and 'gaps' to be filled in by Dogs of War back when they were still available.

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>>51729411
so pic related won't be so uncommon during battles?

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>>51728706
Hey fuck you I like the white scheme of France in Empire: Total War. It stands out and looks good with the gold trims.

Besides, Reikland looks a lot better than Wissenland. Somewhere I got the idea that Wissenland was white and grey, with a little yellow, but instead there's a bleh red in there that tries too hard to drown out the white and grey, and the grey is far too light.

Plastic landsknechtes when?

>>51729174
Because they use halberds, which are superior.

>>51719929
The realm of chaos doesn't reflect belief, it reflects emotion. The gods don't gain their power from belief, they are the conglomerated souls of countless similar beings who felt above all the emotion that they embody.

>>51729833
are they though?

>>51729852
>>it reflects emotion
>>conglomerated souls of countless similar beings
Those two don't go together. It isn't just emotion, but essentially all the 'background noise' of mortal thought. Dreams, emotions, belief, desires, it all coalesces into a vague form in the Realm of Chaos. It's why the fanatical worship of a Sigmarite priest is empowering to Slaanesh because of its excessive nature. Or why humans worship a pantheon but don't supercharge Morr because all of their souls, if given the proper rites, go to him and his realm.

>>51729833
Not really. Range tends to be more useful in regimental war.

Its pretty sad Total War Warhammer wants to cater to SJW's and stuff...

>>51730362
Explain please.

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>>51730362

>>51730387
see >>51730416
It's probably nothing.

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>>51730079
Slannesh isn't excess, it's indulgence.

>>51730576
Nope Slaanesh is excess. The indulgence is a part of the excess of a neverending search for stronger sensations.

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>>51730576
You're not entirely wrong but he (it) is excess in all things, whether it comes from sex or music or devotion. Indulging in these things is just one part of it, the rest of it is going overboard.

Source; Hordes of Chaos, 6th edition.

>>51730576
where is source?

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>>51730646
He isn't excess as a synonym for "a lot of something", he is excess as a synonym for "decadence". As such anyone who is very much something doesn't automatically feed slannesh though "excess", otherwise slanny would be the only god of chaos as the gods are only fed by the most essential and powerful aspects of a being, for example someone who obsesses over killing their enemies doesn't feed slannesh through his "passion" for their destruction, he feeds khorne, slanneshs direct enemy, with his desire to destroy.

The best summary of the gods is
Slannesh = I want this to move upwards
Khorne = I want this to move downward
Tzeentch = I want this to move laterally
Nurgle = I want this right where it is

>>51730720
[F (Hirame)] So Sensou (Dagashi Kashi)

Why hasn't this thread been merged with /alt/ table top yet? You both have pathetic, barely alive threads; maybe if you failures team together you can make something half way decent?

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>>51731124

>>51729557
Well that's fucking disgusting so it thankfully would be

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>>51731124

>>51729632

That's just one regiment though, the text says it's grey and white and one off colour to distinguish them, in this instance it's red but it would be any colour.

I think people shouldn't be too obsessed with official Empire schemes. Really you can follow Bogenhafens example and just pick one of the province colours and mix it with whatever you like.

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>>51730387
>>51730416
The only reason Isabella Von Castein is a Legendary Lord,

>>51731239

But Isabella has been a major character for ages?

>>51731239
While being excited that a legendary lord is female is retarded I doubt it was her idea, and "no one has ever complained". Side note: How does she know Durthu is a man? Trees have no gender.

>>51729557

They may use pikes but I doubt they would look like that, they look more like Orc or Chaos weapons.

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>>51729557

> Let me tell you about Greenskins.

>>51731266
>treeman

>>51731239
Wasn't she a major character for years? Not just in the fluff, but as a model - she even got that big role in End Times.

Besides, you're trying to imply that somehow CA decided that one - ONE - female character was created not because of the lore, not because including a canon character, but only to cater to SJWs. If they managed to scrabble together one female leader for every faction, I'd be surprised - but you'd have to get a lot more women out there to cater to SJWs. And lesbian women. And trans women. And gay men, can't forget those. And a few different races - where are the blacks and Asians?

>>51731326
Empire: 1980's Detroit edition.

>>51731239
Meh. The only complaint I'd have is that Isabella's the third von Carstein legendary lord.
Even if we rule out the likes of Zacharias we could still have had Neferata.

She's not from Sylvania, true, but that didn't stop the from starting Kurgan Ironbeard in fucking Karaz-a-Karak.

>>51731239
It does suck you cant field Vlad and Isabella together in the same stack though.

They're are several opportunities for female lords anyway, why did they choose to half ass sigvald without even giving him his bodyguard instead of making valkiya?

>>51730919
Except that's what is actually happening. His brothers fear that he'll one day be more powerful than all of them combined. He's weaker for now because what empowers him is more specific than anger, hope and fear.

>>51731458
>fear
Oh boy

>>51731371
Ungrim Ironfist. Not Kurgan Ironbeard.

Stupid dwarfs and their stupid names.

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>>51731124

>>51731239
Not having Isabella with Vlad is like having Robin without Batman. Just pretty shitty.

>>51731124
Lol no. Then everyone in the alt wargaming thread will just complain that we fill it up with Warhammer discussions.

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Posting again from last thread. Can I get some tips on my Vampire Count list? I'm 8 points over also.

Lords
Vampire Lord - 220
level 1 wizard
heavy armour - 6
enchanted shield - 5
ogre blade - 40
talisman of preservation - 45
quickblood - 30
red fury - 50
= 396

Master Necromancer - 165
level 4 wizard - 35
dispel scroll - 25
= 225

Heroes
Wight King - 85
fencers blades - 35
the other tricksters shard - 15
= 135

Core
44 Skeletons - 220
champion - 10
standard bearer - 10
banner of swiftness - 15
musician - 10
= 265

40 Skeletons - 200
champion - 10
standard bearer - 10
musician - 10
= 230

20 Zombies - 60
= 60

5 Dire Wolves - 40
= 40

5 Dire Wolves - 40
= 40

Special
29 Grave Guard - 319
39 great weapons - 29
seneschal - 10
standard bearer - 10
banner of the barrows - 50
musician - 10
= 428

10 Black Knights - 210
10 sets of barding - 30
hell knight - 10
standard bearer - 10
musician - 10
= 270

4 Vargheists - 184
vargoyle - 10
= 194

Rare
Terrorgheist - 225
= 225

Total: 2508

>>51731516
The fear of death? In my Nurgle?

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>>51731821
>>51731516
durr forgot my picture

>>51731371
The problem is that Nefarata sort of doesn't work with the way they handled the vampire faction.
Although to be fair, neither does fucking Vlad.

Actually Vlad is a bigger problem on that front, so Nefarata is okay I guess.

>>51731849
Nurgle isn't fear, he is despair, and stagnancy, and acceptance.
Fear can fuel almost any of the 4 depending on what it motivates people to do

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>>51732701
>>wish protection from the ravages of disease, age and the inevitable decline brought by the passing years.

Did you read the image? Acceptance runs contrary to despair and stagnation. If you were accepting you would realize that your time in this world is limited, that you can be struck down by illness, age and war and that you'll pass on. But because this fear of dying, changing one form of existence to another, you follow Nurgle so he keeps you around. The only thing they accept is that Nurgle's power in undeniable.

You might argue that fear could fit into any of the Four, but not the fear of death, that is only Nurgle. He has the power to stop you from dying, from your spirit passing on, even if it comes at the price of your body decaying.

>>51724034
>They were doing some serious magic.

Like what? Drop a source on me, senpai.

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She needs to be a bit uglier I think.
Isabella's first model was the same attractiveness as Vlad's.

Their second models had Vlad looking like a corpse and her youngish, but she still had a monstrous warface on.

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>>51733477
I don't fully understand why they're doing this. I admit I can't think of an ugly female vampire off the top of my head, but even some earlier models had some faded, old-fashioned looking make-up that emphasized how old they were and hinted their beauty was faded or hidden.

It just seems like it's just for fanservice. And I know Isabella was always beautiful, but even in her model, the high cheekbones and general pose at least made her look bestial in a subtle way. They're rather consistent to the model's face, but the cheekbones are less pronounced.

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On a scale of 1 to DIE PEZANT, how heretical is this image?

>>51734542
because vampire waifus.
Vampire chan looks bestial sorta.

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>>51736496

>>51734542
>It just seems like it's just for fanservice
I hope now you know how I feel about their elves.

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>>51719470

>>51734542
>>51736519
>A game based of later editions of the game doesn't base character designs from older editions of the game.
shocking.

>>51736496
since Bretonnian peasants have mental faculties of contused orc, he's still gonna use it as club, so I don't see much of a problem

>>51731685

Change the skeetons with the zombies.

Remember that the other trickster shard on the Wigh King will also hit your vampire if he is in base contact

Why banner of swiftness on skeletons? (also, if you do not plan on putting characters in there, a champion is a waste of points.

Apart from the knights, you're kinda vulnerable to shooting lists. You'll be forced to huddle everything around your vampire/necromancer (depending on who's the general), and with 5 units you want to keep moving that is trouble.

All their artillery shooting will also be directed at 3 targets, basically, the var and the terrorgheist, and the knights.

Another purely melee army will find a very though nut to break, but a shooting or very mobile army could wreck your shit before you can close the gap in melee

>>51736836
guns are easier to fire than bows and arrows.

>>51736902
but ain't they scared of loud noises? some animals are.

What's the dawi word for Orcs? and for Vampires, for that matter?

Playing TWW as Dwarfs got my buddy not only interested in WHFB lore, but in Dwarfs as well, so I'm trying to teach him how to refer to things properly.

>>51737932
Orc = Urk (also means "enemy" in general)

Vampire = Zangunaz
Undead = Uzkular

>>51738150
thanks

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is the price of old warhammer going up soon. or will GW still produce old warhammer stuff?

>>51738287

It probably won't.

Right now if you get them through secondary market mini's are fucking cheap (got 4 treeman for 70 bucks), unless they're bretonnia or tomb kings (or, for some strange reason, helf sister's)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lja4TmwwAmQ

Stuff.

>>51724579
probably not. a part of that magic talent is being able to sense fluctuations in the winds of magic so they can react to it in time when casting a spell. The more power you gather, the higher the chance and scale of chaos fuckery.

dunno about Nagash or what feats Gelt pulled of that could match high magic (except for the wall)

>>51727985
Yes. I remember southern provinces like Averland, Wissenland and Nuln have Tilean influence and deploy spearmen with longer weapons. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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>>51738530
kekked

also
Isabella is into bestiality now it seems

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>>51738435
>secondary market mini
and will the prices of the cheap asia guy (who buys warhammer stuff for you) increase. i dont know if i should buy a new tzeentch or chaos army now.

>>51738564
Nagash created Necromancy. He's arguably the most skilled manipulator of dhar to ever exist.

>>51738666
being best at robotics software doesn't make you best programmer ever. it just means you're really good at a niche application

>>51738664

No, I mean used mini's. Tons of people getting rid of old hobbie's projects

>>51738684

Inventing robotic software however arguably makes you one of the best programmers ever

>>51738858
one of, yeah, but not THE best. and you jsut create a new niche, not advance the programming in general

>>51738918

Laying the basis for the entire undead race and vampirism isn't exactly a niche.

>>51738932
a large niche is still a niche. robotics is a perfect example.

>>51738945

By that reasoning, every other school of magic is the same

And still, he's the only one who ever did it in the entire history of warhammer.

>>51738663
Is that Mannlet getting rekt towards the right in the foreground?

>>51738564
Nagash made himself extra powerful by consuming warpstone and souls like it was creatine.

Do you let your players parry with improvised weapons? I.e. xbows, pistols etc. If so, whats the percentage of them breaking?

>>51736957
You are retarded. Even heard of warhorses?

I think the 1d4 Dwarfs article has way too much Dwarf Fortress humor, especially at the end.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Dwarfs_(Warhammer_Fantasy)

>>51739287
Nagash was weak!

>>51739871
t. Mannlet von Fuckboy

>>51739694
Warhorses aren't immune against fear.
It's difficulet enough to teach them running against masses of humans and other horses.

>>51740078
I LEARNED IT FROM YOU, DAD!

>>51736845

Thanks. I should have added some designers notes.

Basically the Wight King is going with the Grave Guard in a Horde.

The Vamp is in the 44 Skeleton bus with the banner of swiftness. I think I might get rid of it for the sake of 2 extra inch on a march.

I do agree that I've gone for versatility rather than mega-units. I would have liked a few more Black Knights.

In regards to Zombies, I have some for a mage bunker but I really don't like them thematically. I could change one of the Skeleton hordes to Zombies though. Then with the free points I could get some Fell Bats or a Banshee to machine hunt.

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>>51736496

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Planning on going to a tournament where you're allowed to take a free monster in your list, up to 300pts. They can be taken from any allied army book, and includes SoM/Monstrous Arcanum. Any suggestions for decent monsters I could use?

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>>51736496
If you're going to include it just for fun, at least make it a handgun or an arquebus.

The Empire gets sexy flintlocks and matchlocks with brass barrels and all that lovely shit, while the Bretonnians at best should have crappy 'I made this in my backyard while the Lord wasn't looking' guns. Still effective, but crappier.

How are beastmen faring in T9A? Have 3 whole battalions waiting to be built plus a ghorgon/cygor kit, 4 razorgors, 2 razorgor chariots, and 12 minotaurs plus a doombull and 3 bray shamans.

How do you guys feel about 40k getting the AoS treatment?

>>51742547
Good. Nobody on the forums seems to be complaining about them anyway, I don't know from experience since nobody plays them in my community.

>>51742598
I pity those poor fools.

>>51742598

I never played much 40k so I don't really care TBQHFAMALAM.

If the rumors are true, then we'll have a 3-tier structure from GW.

AoS=Introductory/Normie Wargame meant for dudebros, 13-year-olds, and beer-and-pretzel parties

40k=AoS with a little more complexity and proper rules, though still trimmed significantly from it's former iteration. This is your mid-level game that will see the most carry-over from 7th edition players but (probably) won't entice too many new players.

30K=The neckbeard ruleset with expansive rules and fleshed out tactics. This is for the oldfags, rules-lawyers, and most tournaments.

This means that if the new 30k ruleset proves popular, we may actually see a proper new edition of WHFB (but don't hold your breath).

>>51739032
yes

>>51741832
Depends on your army, I've used with some success small units of warbeasts like white lions or cold ones to harass warmachines

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>>51738530
>>51738663

>>51739649
So long as they have on in the offhand, yes. Roll for weapon damage every time it's successfully used to parry. Though you'd have to rule depending on what kind of improvised weapon it is. A candelabra? Sure. A measurement scale? No.

>>51739649
At -5% WS, unless it's a weapon logically useless for parrying due to shape or awkwardness.

>>51742755
If they did that for WFB a lot less people would complain but sadly because of ET I am a paranoid fuck who doesn't want it to happen to his current game.

>>51743380

This is pure speculation/wishful thinking, but if they did bring back WHFB proper, they could easily just bring back the old world and set it in a time period between the Age of Legends and The End Times. A lot of our favorite (mortal) heroes probably wouldn't be present (Karl Franz, Grimgor, etc.) but you could keep the model range the same and switch up some of the lore.

So rather than act like The End Times didn't happen, GW would just shift the timeline. It's a win-win for everyone. AoS can still exist and WHFB players are happy to be back in the Old World.

>>51743518
That makes too much sense for GW to do it. GW seems to be going 2 steps forward 1 step back so if they were to it wouldn't be as good as you imagine.

>>51743518
I think they should revive the Storm of Chaos timeline. Archaon failed in his invasion of the Old World and, just like Be'lakor before him, he has been stripped of his power and reduced to humiliating servitude. The timeline picks up from 2522 IC.

>>51743645
Its not like Blood Bowl isn't a canon alternate universe anyway.

I wouldn't play anything still canon to become AoS personally.

>>51743820
>I wouldn't play anything still canon to become AoS personally.

What do you mean? If Archaon fails, there's no End Times. The Chaos Gods may find a new champion, but there's no guarantee he'd be successful either.

>>51743863
I mean based on what >>51743518 said. I figured I didn't have to link it since I was agreeing with your point of using SoC using my personal feelings. My mistake.

>>51743933
Oh, no problem. Just misunderstood.

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Could Daark beat Archaos?

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>>51736845
>>51741218

If there's any interest I've revised it.

Lords
Vampire Lord - 220
level 1 wizard
heavy armour - 6
enchanted shield - 5
ogre blade - 40
talisman of preservation - 45
potion of speed - 5
quickblood - 30
red fury - 50
= 401

Master Necromancer - 165
level 4 wizard - 35
dispel scroll - 25
= 225

Heroes
Wight King - 85
fencers blades - 35
the other tricksters shard - 15
= 135

Core
49 Skeletons - 245
champion - 10
standard bearer - 10
musician - 10
= 275

50 Zombies - 150
standard bearer - 5
musician - 5
= 160

20 Zombies - 60
= 60

5 Dire Wolves - 40
= 40

5 Dire Wolves - 40
= 40
Special
29 Grave Guard - 319
29 great weapons - 29
seneschal - 10
standard bearer - 10
banner of the barrows - 50
musician - 10
= 428

10 Black Knights - 210
10 sets of barding - 30
hell knight - 10
standard bearer - 10
musician - 10
= 270

4 Vargheists - 184
vargoyle - 10
= 194

Spirit Host - 45
= 45

Rare
Terrorgheist - 225
= 225

Total: 2498

>>51742547

Not to be a 9th Age shill but the margins in that game are very fine between races. All 16 of them are more than playable.

>>51745824
This.

Most of the bitching is Skaven being less lulzy random and Daemons being split into seven Chaos Gods.

>>51746251
7 god Daemons sounds cool though.

>>51746298
Seven deadly sins.
Three new Greater Daemons added.

>>51746251

The Demon thing is a bit of a game changer.

The pantheon of four was integral to Chaos. I hope they go back to that.

I followed them because they promised a 9th edition, I don't want to be used as a springboard for the own lame shit.

Could a mutant with no Chaos god loyalties become a vampire?

>>51746654

I suppose so. It depends what you mean by 'mutant'. Vampires only ascend the best.

>>51746687
I mean a hideously warped mutant, a few steps from being a spawn. Let's assume for a second that the question of the vampire's willingness is not a factor.

>>51746837
If you ignore the vampire, then possibly. Though it would likely result in a terrible monster that may or may not be useful.

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>>51746251
I'm worried about it mostly because I wanted what was still essentially a fixed ruleset of WFB, not a knockoff of it. Oh, and apparently Bretonnians now use a lot of light cavalry instead of knights?

It's arguable how much fluff matters with this sort of thing - some people actually support new 9th Age fluff over old WFB, other people don't and would rather ignore it - but once it starts getting into game rules, it gets harder to ignore. I'm willing to give it a chance on gameplay terms, but I'm not all that picky on what ruleset I use. But it does not seem like the promised savior anymore, but more an independent thing like Pathfinder to D&D.

>>51746896

Yeah I think they're close to getting tied up in the bullshit.

The game will never be perfectly balanced and if making it as close to balanced as is humanly possible means every factions plays similarly, then I think we've gotten too far from the source.

>>51746896
It's garbage

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If they ever finish 9th Age I might go through and edit all the names back to their Warhammer equivalents.

I know this is autistic but it must be done.

>>51747438
Some lads have already done that. I think it's called immortal warhammer.

>>51721595
>first colonial power to drop slavery and expend immense effort catching and killing those that practiced it at sea
>similar to the culture that essentially runs on its ability to raid coastal towns for slaves

If that's how the world sees Britain, the world is pretty delusional.

Anyway, Britain's analogue is Albion. Did everyone just forget about that place?

>>51747601
The brits also introduced bonded laborers which was slavery by another name to the west indies.

Guess they don't teach that in school eh nigel?

>>51747637

That is true.

But remember that the British state paid £20,000,000 in 1840's rates to compensate slave owners.

That was a burden bore by the taxpayer.

>>51747637
>implying indenture was historically as bad as chattel slavery

Wew lad, that's some poor history.

Bonded labor wasn't great but it was a step. People actually did work their way out of it, and it was a movement toward any system of that kind eventually being abolished.

The times were different, and I can't fault the Brits for being first to make that step.

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>>51747552
> Immortan Warhammer.

WITNESS ME!

>>51747709

Not to mention the amount of money spent on the Royal Navy patrolling the Atlantic.

>>51747637
Initially bonded labor existed for only four years, until magistrates ruled that the treatment of many workers was unacceptable and it became impossible to import people for that purpose.

It was reinstated later, when plantation owners kicked up a fit, but with extremely strict regulations that afforded bonded workers regular pay, proper shelter, medical care, legal rights, etc. Soon after this an initiative was launched to recruit bonded workers into free employment, because that was more profitable anyway.

This was all before the Emancipation Proclamation. So yeah, the 'war on slavery' actually was followed through on by the Brits and did improve people's lives.

>>51747552
Where can I find it?

>>51746623
I just want to see their idea for it. I'm anxious but keeping an open mind.

Their artwork in the core book was clearly a Daemonette so I dpubt much will change beyond being anything to midnight.

>>51746896
Brets use light cav AND knights.

Mounted Yoemen.

>>51749930
I haven't actually looked, so don't quote me on this, but apparently in 9th Age they focus far more on light cavalry and either leave off the knights entirely or just don't focus on them as much.

>>51750263
So you're just spouting a rumor then. One that can be easily verified.

Welp, up to me to dispel derp then.

>>51750263
>>51750480
Just downloaded it, there's no "light cavalry focus".

I have no idea where that came from.

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>>51724001
>only in tabletop
Negative. Its canon and mentioned several times. Pic related, 6th edition rulebook was the first one to pop in my head.

>>51728663
As >>51728728 and >>51728772 point out, historic analogue has always been a major part of the warhammer setting, for one really simple reason....

The original developers of the game were already wargammers who already had a shit ton of 16thC historics, and a bunch of ral partha and chainmaille minis, and wanted a system to use them together.

>>51729174
Because that's Tilea's gimmick.

>>51730576
No. Slaanesh is the prince of excess. Thats literally one of his/her titles.

>>51751152
Sounds like Mr. Ward's writing. Where logic is thrown out the window for rule of cool.

>>51751152
>>51751176
The difference is that a dragon dying in the lore is usually a really big deal and doesn't happen all that often. In game, however, if you run any kind of Large Target monster you're just begging the enemy to snipe it with cannon. Or worse, if you have monsters like Hippogryphs or Griffins they can be taken down by archers.

I'm also not sure if Ward was around back then, or if he just gained his infamy later on through his Marine wank.

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>>51751176
>Killing a giant lizard with a cannon isn't logical
Ok...

>>51751186
>The difference is that a dragon dying in the lore is usually a really big deal and doesn't happen all that often.

Yeah, because dragons themselves are rare as fuck, and for all their power, are always risked when brought to battle.

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Do you still have a force to fight in the Old World with?

>>51751337
Several. Empire, DoW, a small slaanesh mortal/demon force. Recently traded my brets (a mix of 5th ed and later models) to a friend for a new ACL shield.

I also have a bunch of various grunt units for various races for use in WHFRP and mordheim.

>>51747438
>>51747552
I'd also like to know this

>>51746623
I don't mind the idea of more Chaos Gods, because they're representations of human fears and desires. There ought to have been more than four. Not okay with 9th Age making shit up otherwise, though.

>>51751983
There always were more than the big Four, the others were lost in a mess of copyright law and IP ownership.

>>51752004
I only know if Malal. What others are there?

>>51745795

Ok, the lord into the skeletons is....interesting.

Most players will expect it into the GG deathstar, so surprise could work, slapping them as a placeholder on the enemy weak side and then do a pincer.

However, be very careful, as some units could possibli shred more skeletons than your vampire can offset, and they are very vulnerable to light shooting, so keep it in mind, you'll have to play it very carefully during deployement.

If you are against an army that can dish quite a lot of light shooting (such as skaven, DE or wood elves), i'll advise you to scrounge up some points to mount the vampire and send him with the black knights

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>>51751176

I have been waiting centuries to post this

>>51751152
The sword in the illustration does vaguely remind me of Stormbringer.

>>51751186
In this case it makes a bit of sense since they were attacking Nuln. That city is known for its large numbers of warmachines.

Anyone has interesting expanded crit tables and bad luck (from 96-00) for wfrp2ed?

>>51752078
It wasn't worth it.

>>51751176
t. Asshurt Elffag

>>51748889
>>51751929

http://immortal-wfb.forumactif.org/t9-the-9th-age-english

>>51753226
What is the difference between V1.0.0 and V1.1.0?

>>51753226
I appreciate them restoring the original names, but placing the "Immortal Warhammer" logo on every page is a bit obnoxious. And I actually liked the illustrations they removed from some pages.

>>51751217
Cannons are fuckhard to aim or hit anything but a wall of troops with. They cannot be aimed up.

Either the Elf was a retard who had never encountered non-Elf artillery before or it was Wardian writing.

>>51752022
Chaos Gods Of Law.

>>51753011
Love this one, thanks for posting it.

>>51753163
A Griffon or Wyvern should't die to a cannon either.

You have to swoop down on it.

>>51755520
Normally it would be questionable, but is it so hard to imagine Nuln having some cannons that were set up to shoot things in the air?

>>51755540
No problemo.

>>51755572
Dwarf guns with seeker runes maybe.

But anything flying is damn near impossible to hit with a single shot. Even flak guns are ineffective. You need rapid-fire weapons and that won't pierce dragonhide.

>>51755520
>cannons cannot be aimed up, nor hit an object the size of a private jet

Jesus, this is so stupid and gun ignorant that you could only be a European. Leaving aside that the walls of Nuln are defended by cannon, too.

>>51756017
I'm American, and you should go look both at a Dragon model and a cannon model.

The cannon cannot aim up. The dragon is the size of a small Cessna.

The ONLY explanation is the Elf is a retard who had his dragon fly in a straight horizontal line head-on. Or landed on the ramparts and paid no attention while they wheeled it around. Makes sense for an Orc but not much else.

>>51756108
1.) Models are not to scale.
2.) There is more than one way to mount a cannon than what we see in the great cannon Mosel intended for field combat.

Virtually all cannons ever can change elevation, and if for some bizarre reason one of the 2 most heavily defended cities in the Empire, known for its cannon, had no such provision, then it is not difficult to believe that volume of fire or sheer elven arrogance got his flying snowflake killed. Wouldn't be the first time a Warhammer elf was that degree of stupid and arrogant, just look at the War of Vengeance.

It's honestly more difficult to believe an elf prince would lose a sword fight to some gut than that a dragon would get hit with a cannon.

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>>51752078
I am sorry it was such a letdown.

>>51752143
Because Daemon weapons in general are cribbed off stormbringer.

>>51752153
Most Empire cities have a good number of guns.

>>51755520
>Cannons are fuckhard to aim or hit anything but a wall of troops with.

As someone who shoots them for a living, not really. Basic math and the right tools make it easy. You will also have range long before the dragon does, and you will never be alone in a battery.

>>51755520
>>51755572
>>51755854
>They cannot be aimed up.

Pic related. Elevation is a thing you know.

>. Even flak guns are ineffective. You need rapid-fire weapons and that won't pierce dragonhide.

Canister shot works just fine in fluff. You could also shoot bar shot I suppose. If a ballista, pike etc can pierce dragon hide, then a bunch of lead balls and iron nails being shot out of a cannon will do just dandy.

>>51756263
this reminds me, do we have a rough idea of how fast dragons are? (pls don't quote crunch as source)

>>51756108
>I'm American,
>The cannon cannot aim up

checks out.

>>51756108
> so stupid and gun ignorant that you could only be a European
>>51756108
>I'm American
>literally two burgers displaying their retardation for the whole world to see
Anyone who ever saw a cannon can understand how it was brought down.

>>51756185
>>51756263
So we're to assume the dragon did literally no aerial maneuvers and just flew right at the cannon then?

>>51756551
You are to assume that the engineers were actually really competent.

>>51756551
Not the people you're arguing with, but it might not be a bad idea to assume that. Maybe the dragon's rider saw the cannon, realized it was a threat, and thought he could take it or the crew out with a straight on attack before they managed to reload and fire. I could also see Elves just underestimating cannons in general, especially when compared to a dragon.

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>>51756301
No idea, but the raw fact is that any speed of flight is faster than everything that doesn't fly.

>>51756551
Cannon do not fire like in a cartoon. Its a giant gun, and our 6 pounder shoots at roughly 1400 feet per second.

You're also forgetting... A dragon attacking a defended city was flying into a battery. think of it like this: I can miss you with my musket, but I am never going to shoot at you alone, and shooting a volley.

>>51756578
All gunners are. That is their job. The crew serves the cannon, and the gunner is a trained, educated man of math and physics.

>>51756624
>All gunners are. That is their job.
I used to work with artillerymen in a past job and I have to say they really are.

>>51756624
Cannons take a while to reload.
The dragon should have been on top of them before they got a second volley.

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>>51756624
>>51756696
>Empire Of Sigmar
>Competent

>>51756551
>been asleep for centuries
>never seen a cannon
>don't know its range
>boss elf seems unconcerned
>flying for it
>wh-

*torso explodes as a siege cannon round tears through my torso*

>>51756725
>declining race
Dropped

>>51756725
>elf pretending to be dawi

There's being sad and there's being downright DESPERATE, elgi.

>>51756778
This
Empire and Dawi best bros

Does anyone know what the tier list for the 9th age is?

>>51756800
Except human made in dwarfish stand for "badly made".

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>>51756704
My crew manages 22 seconds between rounds on our 3 pounders, and we're just 21st century historians who only fire around 3-4 times a day and have a few modern safety requirements.

Historic manuals require a 15 seconds or less per shot. THEN lets add the DaVinci-tech batshit of Nuln, and you get some crazy fuckery.

In fluff, and in crunch: Cannon fuck up dragons. The fact that man is able to counter the primordial powers of dragons, demons etc, with their industry and ingenuity is half of the charm of warhammer.

>>51756725
Actually, in warfare, they most certainly are. Even dwarves recognize this.

>>51756738
Pretty much.

>>51756829
No, it means "Unreliable", which by their standards is "It won't last for centuries"

>>51756829
The word for humans is the word for shoddy. That was an existing word, Dwarfs met humans and declared them "Shoddies". They kept calling them that.

>>51756872
>The fact that man is able to counter the primordial powers of dragons, demons etc, with their industry and ingenuity is half of the charm of warhammer.
Steel faith and gunpowder, as Magnus said.

>>51756894
Magnus "Grab Them By The Pussy" The Pious.

>>51756829
It's derived from 'umgak,' yes, but let's face it - they're not wrong. Humans are short lived, physically weaker, more vulnerable to disease, and easily corrupted by Chaos's energies. Despite this, dwarfs consider humans to generally be oath keepers, have traded with them, guided them, befriended them. More than one has b stood in the Shrine of Grimnir. One was even answered by the Ancestor Gods when he called out for their aid.

Dwarfs pity humans their weaknesses. Elves only hold them in contempt.

>>51756970
Teclis and Alarielke see them as children.

The Elves who hold them in contempt hold literally everything in contempt but themselves and their personal legacy.

>>51756970
>Elves only hold them in contempt
>Finubar was so impressed and feared of Empire so he sought alliance

>>51757017
That's 99% of elves.

That, really, is the story of elves: hubris and contempt. And the irony is that despite their power, beauty, intelligence, prowess, and longevity, they do not learn from their failures. It's emblematic in the way they call the war with the dwarfs 'The War of the Beard,' as if it wasn't an error that cost them virtually their entire empire, a stout ally, and their future. Most elves can hardly conceive of non-elves as people.

>>51757060
Something he was mocked for.

>>51756926
>We're gonna build a wall, and make chaos pay for it!

>>51757080
In their own army book they admit that it was stupid what happened back then and that Caledor II was a fool.

>>51757095
>implying the Great Bastion doesn't work

Sad!

>>51757113
>Happy pie day! I love the halflings!

>>51756725
The source material for dwarfs is just elves.

>>51757080
>It's emblematic in the way they call the war with the dwarfs 'The War of the Beard,' as if it wasn't an error that cost them virtually their entire empire, a stout ally, and their future.

Bruh, it wasn't just an error on their part.

Half of it occurred due to dwarves being so autistic, they literally could not believe that druchii existed, and so temperamental that their ambassador physically threatened the king of another nation in his court because that inability to believe that elves could be two nations.

I know it's hip to hate elves on /tg/, but the War of the Beard is meant to be the result of an error of diplomacy on both sides.

>>51757080
>as if it wasn't an error that cost them virtually their entire empire
well can't you give a great mistake a nickname? should they call it war of the great mistake which costed us a lot?

>>51757498
This is literally lies.

1.) Dwarfs knew the druchii existed, but not being a sea-faring people (they literally have one port, Barak Varr), they didn't know much. This was made worse by the elves deliberately obfuscating the civil war.

2.) The dwarfen ambassador never threatened Caledor II. He demanded explanation for the illegal raids on his nation's caravans by elves wearing the uniforms and carrying the banners of Caledor II's empire. Caledor II did not request more information, did not explain the ongoing civil war - he instead demanded that the ambassador should grovel if he wanted to be answered. The ambassador responded by increasing the debt Caledor II owed for what, as far as he still knew, was an unprovoked attack on his people's caravans.

There is no 'two sides' to the War of Vengeance. The dwarfs were admittedly easily taken in by the ruse, but the fact that it became a war at all was entirely Caledor II's fault.

>>51757555
I like the ring of 'Caledor's Folly.'

>>51757498
You will be screamed down by a dwarfaboo that believes the dwarf's army books are 100% unbiased und truth, while everything an elf says is automatically wrong.

>>51757578
>1.) Dwarfs knew the druchii existed, but not being a sea-faring people (they literally have one port, Barak Varr), they didn't know much. This was made worse by the elves deliberately obfuscating the civil war.

This is not how the story is told. It's stated that the dwarves did not believe there was a separate people, that this was a deception.

>2.) The dwarfen ambassador never threatened Caledor II.

According to him. It's recorded on the other side of things that he threatened. Considering that dwarves are ridiculously short-tempered, I know who I believe.

>>51752078

> Ant sized.

You blew it.

>>51751337

I'm still building forces.

Just got Dawn Spire today. It'll be the start of a High Elf and Skaven army for me.

I'm putting the Griffon on a 50mmx100mm base though to match the Empire one, even if the model is smaller.

>>51757578
>hurr everything stated from dwarf POV is truth
>hurr everything stated from elf POV is lies

Dorfwankers are true cancer sometimes.

>>51757631
Dwarfs knew the Elves were having a civil war, but viewed them as one people in a dispute like when Holds try to settle a Grudge. Dwarfs didn't know Dark Elves were so cartoonishly evil and with Chaos infiltration and nobody told them.

>>51757675
What POV? All sources are the same story with different elaboration. Neither side contradicts the other, in any edition.

>>51757681
>Dwarfs knew the Elves were having a civil war, but viewed them as one people in a dispute like when Holds try to settle a Grudge
It... kinda was like that. At this point they were still the same people.
>Dwarfs didn't know Dark Elves were so cartoonishly evil and with Chaos infiltration and nobody told them
You don't need both these things to do what the dark elves did.

>>51757707
No, Dark Elves were already over the top mustache twirling villains by the time of the Sundering.

>>51757732
Ah fuck, you are right. But the second point still stands. You don't need to be a villainous chaos worshipper to think of such tactics.

>>51757707
From the Dwarf perspective nobody would fuck over their only ally, because at the end of a civil war you don't want to have nothing to inherit. Dwarfs didn't know anything about the war, so they assumed it was like their own inter-Dwarf wars where everyone is still loyal to the supreme leader and at the end you still want to have the Hold and trade routes standing.

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>>51756017

Big Al says cannons can't look up.